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View Full Version : Decisions to Buy DVC - hesitant spouse


luvslikepi
04-16-2012, 03:55 PM
I want to invest in DVC however I have not been able to convince my husband that it would be a good investment for our family, I don't even think I could convince him to go to the presentation that DVC does at any of the parks - he's very suspicious of time shares. What are some of the "facts" of DVC that helped you decide to buy or convince a hesitant spouse that it would be a good investment?

WsPrincess
04-16-2012, 04:09 PM
I do not look at DVC as an investment really. I look at it as paying up front for our vacations. We like Disney and we stay deluxe when we go. For us the up front cost will be paid for in about 5 trips but we know we have yearly dues whether we travel or not. We are committing to another 30 years of paying into Disney regardless of how we travel. I know that doesn't sound like the positive spin you are looking for but I have to look at our ownership in that way since it is not a one time fee or something that ends anytime soon.

Brian Noble
04-16-2012, 04:27 PM
I want to invest in DVC however I have not been able to convince my husband that it would be a good investment for our family

You aren't really "investing" in DVC. As the PP puts it, you are pre-paying for your vacation lodging.

Generally speaking, DVC can save money for people who visit at least once every other year, stay in Deluxe resorts, and expect to continue doing so for at least the next decade. Also generally speaking, DVC can give you an upgrade on your lodging (and maybe save a little money as well) if you visit at least once every other year, stay in Moderate resorts, and expect to continue doing so for at least a decade.

DVC is not as great of an idea if you often stay in Value resorts or would consider staying offsite. It's also potentially a bad idea if you are buying "to take the kids to Disney," because kids have a nasty tendency of growing up.

The other problem with DVC: it's easy to really upgrade your lodging and spend more on it in the long run. For example, we just don't consider a hotel room (or a studio) for the four of us vacation. We can squeeze into a 1BR if we have to, but consider even that a sacrifice and really prefer 2BR units. Likewise, even with just the two of us, without the kids, we really prefer a 1BR to a studio. Once you go down that road, you are not "saving" much of anything even compared to regular Deluxe stays.

OrangeCountyCommuter
04-16-2012, 04:56 PM
I want to invest in DVC however I have not been able to convince my husband that it would be a good investment for our family, I don't even think I could convince him to go to the presentation that DVC does at any of the parks - he's very suspicious of time shares. What are some of the "facts" of DVC that helped you decide to buy or convince a hesitant spouse that it would be a good investment?

Key words here that need to be changed..

Most people think of an "investment" in a finanical sense. Under no circumstanes is a timeshare a good "investment"

Now if you can convince DH that it's an investment in your quality of life etc.. it might work but if he's a numbers man.. GOOD LUCK!

I knew I went enough to Disney to make it work for me, but you also have to be willing to do a lot of vacations at Disney. My changing vacation habits are why I have sold off two small contracts and will probably list another one next year.

DizBub
04-16-2012, 05:13 PM
The facts that helped us decide were that we learned that DVC is not a typical timeshare. You are only limited by the amount of points you own and short notice availability. You are locked into yearly dues but even payment of those is flexible. We resisted for years thinking that there was no way we could afford it. The numbers seemed so mysterious. When I finally got an exact price we bought and have added on twice now. Had I known about resale we could have saved a ton.

My advice would be to look into renting points for a vacation and get a feel for what you would be getting into. Take the tour/presentation, no pressure. You can get fast passes and ice cream for your trouble.

zavandor
04-16-2012, 05:19 PM
Why don't you try to rent points for one vacation in a DVC resort?
This way maybe you DH will fall in love with the resort and will decide to evaluate DVC.
Renting before buying is a good idea anyway, to help you choose your favorite resort.

disneynutz
04-16-2012, 05:21 PM
If you already vacation at WDW every year and especially if you stay at deluxe resorts, and you like the DVC accommodations and you expect to vacation at WDW for the next 10 years or so, then the DVC can save you some money.

If the above is true, then start reading because there is more to the program then just buying. There are rules, policies and procedures that you should learn about before you visit with a sales person.

:earsboy: Bill

bwvBound
04-16-2012, 05:26 PM
We find the room amenities of the 1BR and larger units keep us pleased: the jetted tub, the extra space and privacy of a separate living room, the kitchen and the laundry. If we were only booking studio units -- DVC wouldn't hold much value for us.

ljcastro18
04-16-2012, 05:35 PM
It may or may not be a great investment money wise, but what made me decide to purchase is the joy and happiness this will bring to my life and my family, the future vacations we are going to enjoy together the excitement on planning where to go next, I think my wife and I have planned our future vacations up to 2014 all thanks to our dvc :cool1:, there are some things in life that are that are way more important than money and each time I go on vacation with my family I prove it by making all those wonderful memories, I am not saying be irresponsible BUT live since we all are on borrowed time :rolleyes1

luvslikepi
04-16-2012, 05:37 PM
Thanks all. For me it would be an investment because we love to travel and particularly love traveling to Disney parks. Our first child will be born in August and we plan on taking many, many family vacations with her over her childhood to both Disneyland and WDW (among other locations). I love the fact that you don't have to use your points strictly for Disney locations.

Is there a thread where I can find information on renting DVC points?

princessaloha
04-16-2012, 07:11 PM
I want to invest in DVC however I have not been able to convince my husband that it would be a good investment for our family, I don't even think I could convince him to go to the presentation that DVC does at any of the parks - he's very suspicious of time shares. What are some of the "facts" of DVC that helped you decide to buy or convince a hesitant spouse that it would be a good investment?

Aloha :-), We are in the process of our first DVC purchase and we were in the same boat as you and your husband. Here is what I did to convince my DH that DVC was for us.

First I read everything I could about DVC so that 1. I convinced myself beyond a shadow of doubt that this is what I wanted and 2. I would be able to answer any/most questions my DH would ask.

Then I asked myself what is the most important thing TO MY DH in regards to vacations/DVC. In my DH's case, the top three priorities for him were 1. consistent vacations on the mainland in deluxe accommodations 2. something everyone in the family would enjoy (especially him :-)) 3. the ability to have some flexibility in where and when we would travel. I then took what I knew about the DVC program and presented the information to him with emphasis on what I knew was his important points. Then I sat back and let him ask random questions for almost a week and answered him as best as possible.

When I had a question I wasn't sure about, I posted it here on the DISboard and the wonderful posters either answered them or directed/focused me in the right direction.

Then I started showing him the videos. First of the rooms, then the pools, and then the boats and para-sailing....well, I finally got the thumbs up from him and hopefully by the end of summer will be proud members of DVC. FYI: every day he asks if I've done it yet and if not, why am I taking so long, :sad2:.

The keys (to me) are: 1. research everything DVC 2. gear your presentation to him around what he would consider important points (and not necessarily what is important to you, because you're already sold on it).

Good luck, oh yeah, also a wonderful dinner, a glass of wine and a kiss or two before your presentation wouldn't hurt...lol j/k! :rotfl:

k3chantal
04-16-2012, 07:18 PM
I don't think of this as an investment either but rather as a prepayment for my vacations too.

The reasons we purchased:
We would never pay cash to stay at a deluxe resort but love the amenities and everything else about them. Having our membership paid off means that we get to go to these wonderful resorts without paying for them year after year the going rate.

The resorts are only going to become more expensive and we are 'locked in' at our 'price'.

But the top reason was that we could exchange our points with RCI and go other places. We have already been to Kauai, Hawaii for 7 days in a two bedroom condo. It was wonderful.

I love our membership and I love how versatile it is. We only have 280 points a year and I thought that we were really limited with what we could do. But, we have been on a Disney 7 day cruise on the Wonder too with our points. We never thought we could 'afford' to do that. We had two port window connecting rooms so we were even 'upgraded' from what we thought we could do.

The membership keeps your vacations 'deluxe' while keeping your pocket book under control.
We have been members for five years and have had five fantastic, incredible, over the top vacations. Our next one is in May and I love knowing that I am going to a deluxe resort where I will be acknowledge as a member and treated well.

It took a full year for us to 'pull the trigger' and make the purchase. We don't do things like this lightly. And depending on where you live, there is a cost to travel to DW and where ever you end up going with your points. So it is a purchase that you need to do carefully.
Good luck!

Missyrose
04-16-2012, 07:24 PM
Thanks all. For me it would be an investment because we love to travel and particularly love traveling to Disney parks. Our first child will be born in August and we plan on taking many, many family vacations with her over her childhood to both Disneyland and WDW (among other locations). I love the fact that you don't have to use your points strictly for Disney locations.

Is there a thread where I can find information on renting DVC points?

Please do a great deal of research about using your DVC points outside of the DVC resorts. The RCI exchanges aren't a particularly good value for your points and it can be very difficult to find anything that resembles the quality of DVC.

Base your decision to buy DVC on using the points ON DVC.

WsPrincess
04-16-2012, 07:36 PM
Please do a great deal of research about using your DVC points outside of the DVC resorts. The RCI exchanges aren't a particularly good value for your points and it can be very difficult to find anything that resembles the quality of DVC.

Base your decision to buy DVC on using the points ON DVC.

To add to this, if you purchase resale (like we did) you cannot use your points everywhere that direct buyers can. This is 100% fine for us since we bought to go to Disney. If we want to travel elsewhere we will rent the points for the year and book our vacation with the money.

DizBub
04-16-2012, 08:08 PM
Is there a thread where I can find information on renting DVC points?

Go to the DVC/Rent-Trade board here http://www.disboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29

There is a reputable point broker Daddio/David with a web site with lots of information if you don't feel comfortable renting from members directly.

Deb & Bill
04-16-2012, 08:14 PM
Please do a great deal of research about using your DVC points outside of the DVC resorts. The RCI exchanges aren't a particularly good value for your points and it can be very difficult to find anything that resembles the quality of DVC.

Base your decision to buy DVC on using the points ON DVC.

You beat me to this response, Missyrose. Trading DVC isn't all that DVC tries to make it out to be. Many of the trades just aren't the same quality as DVC. And many of them are difficult to get. Most of the time you need to plan at least a year or two out to get a trade. Even then, you might not get what you really want.

Purchase DVC to stay DVC.

chalee94
04-16-2012, 08:22 PM
Please do a great deal of research about using your DVC points outside of the DVC resorts. The RCI exchanges aren't a particularly good value for your points and it can be very difficult to find anything that resembles the quality of DVC.

Base your decision to buy DVC on using the points ON DVC.

this is great advice. if you are interested in using pts outside of the DVC resorts at wdw and HHI (and maybe the one at DL if you are feeling lucky) on a regular basis, then your husband is 100% right that DVC is a bad use of your money.

rules for renting a DVC reservation:

1. See the Considering Renting from a DVC Member? thread. getting a little dated but still some important information.

2. here's a link to DVC point charts (http://www.wdwinfo.com/disney-vacation-club/DVCpoints.shtml) to figure out how many points your reservation will require.

3. here's a link to learn more about the DVC resorts. (http://allears.net/acc/dvc.htm) (BCV is a short walk from epcot and a longer walk or boat ride from DHS...BLT is across the street from the MK. AKV is farther from the parks, but awfully nifty if you like zebras and giraffes.)

4. go to the rent/trade board (http://www.disboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29) and read the sticky threads there

5. and then start looking for a DVC owner to rent a reservation from.

(BTW, most DVC members make reservations more than 6 months in advance...many at 10-11 months out...so working with shorter notice may seriously limit your options.)

as previously mentioned, david's rental service is also a good option:

http://www.dvcrequest.com/

fmer55
04-16-2012, 08:23 PM
You aren't really "investing" in DVC. As the PP puts it, you are pre-paying for your vacation lodging.

Generally speaking, DVC can save money for people who visit at least once every other year, stay in Deluxe resorts, and expect to continue doing so for at least the next decade. Also generally speaking, DVC can give you an upgrade on your lodging (and maybe save a little money as well) if you visit at least once every other year, stay in Moderate resorts, and expect to continue doing so for at least a decade.

DVC is not as great of an idea if you often stay in Value resorts or would consider staying offsite. It's also potentially a bad idea if you are buying "to take the kids to Disney," because kids have a nasty tendency of growing up.

The other problem with DVC: it's easy to really upgrade your lodging and spend more on it in the long run. For example, we just don't consider a hotel room (or a studio) for the four of us vacation. We can squeeze into a 1BR if we have to, but consider even that a sacrifice and really prefer 2BR units. Likewise, even with just the two of us, without the kids, we really prefer a 1BR to a studio. Once you go down that road, you are not "saving" much of anything even compared to regular Deluxe stays.

i agree with your assessment wholeheartedly, but the one point i disagree with is upgraading to a 2 bedroom vs. cost savings. I still think you save and the fact that you have the points i think let your treat yourself more than hyou would if paying rack rates. Anytime i travel i stay in a least a deluxe and that is only if they don't have a one bedroom. I am always shocked that people think four people in a studio for a week i a vacation. My family would never survive.

Also a lot of 1 and 2 bedrooms are hard to come by even paying rack rates.

We are spoiled but with dvc and 2 stays a year, we figure we break even in 5 to 7 yrs with all the extra savins on AP and TIW

JimMIA
04-16-2012, 08:34 PM
My first suggestion -- as others have said -- is to lose the concept of "investment."

A timeshare is NOT an investment -- and that's not a knock on DVC. NObody's timeshare is an investment. Depending on what you buy and how much you pay (both acquisition cost and annually), a timeshare may be a reasonable vacation option. Or not.

The second suggestion I have is to make first decisions first.

FIRST...decide if you want to get involved in ANY timeshare. Most timeshares involve a never-ending financial committment to significant annual payments (usually called maintenance fees, called "dues" by DVC). DVC's "dues" are a committment for 30-50 years, depending on what resort you buy. That's longer than the mortgage on your house, and although the numbers are smaller, it is still a very significant longterm committment.

No, you don't have to keep any timeshare forever and ever, Amen. But...if you're not going to keep it forever, you need to have a realistic exit strategy. If you pay THOUSANDS of dollars to buy in, a rational exit strategy becomes very problematic. If you pay those kinds of bucks and get out later, you're going to take a financial beating.

In making this critical first decision, you need to consider ALL options to timeshares. That includes traditional cash hotel reservations (often with good discounts), renting reservations from timeshare owners (including DVC owners), staying offsite at WDW with really significant savings, and buying other timeshares instead of/in addition to DVC.

My third suggestion is -- before you buy DVC -- REALLY consider how you plan to use it.

IMHO, DVC is a fine timeshare...IF you use it exclusively for DVC resorts at WDW, and if you just wouldn't be satisfied staying anywhere but onsite in "deluxe" accommodations (and some would dispute that description of DVC).

I would argue that there are better options everywhere else where DVC has resorts. Better in Hilton Head, better on both Florida coasts, better in California, and WAY better in Hawaii.

Using DVC points outside DVC is a sucker bet, with a few exceptions in RCI trades.

Fourth suggestion -- speaking of RCI: If you want to do any exchanges other than when you've screwed up and have expiring points you HAVE to deposit in RCI...buy something else.

With regard to RCI, you have to understand what DVC is...and isn't. With many timeshares, you receive a full personal membership in one (or more) of the major timeshare exchange programs -- RCI and/or II.

That's not true with DVC. With DVC, you are not a member of any exchange program. You can exchange through RCI currently, but only a very limited number of choices (<600 of the more than 4,000 RCI resorts) and only through DVC MS.

IF you wanted to buy a timeshare for the purpose of exchanging (not recommended), you could buy a fine timeshare on eBay for $1 and get access to all 4000+ RCI resorts, plus all of their other significant benefits.
*****

So take your time. Take a deep breath, and do your homework. Don't try to force a fit. You'll be sorry if you do.

And...as a Dad to three beautiful daughters (2 adults and a 10 y/o) I can tell you that there are SO many things that are so much more important than trips to Disney...or anywhere else.

robinbutterfly
04-16-2012, 09:26 PM
My first suggestion -- as others have said -- is to lose the concept of "investment."

A timeshare is NOT an investment -- and that's not a knock on DVC. NObody's timeshare is an investment. Depending on what you buy and how much you pay (both acquisition cost and annually), a timeshare may be a reasonable vacation option. Or not.

The second suggestion I have is to make first decisions first.

FIRST...decide if you want to get involved in ANY timeshare. Most timeshares involve a never-ending financial committment to significant annual payments (usually called maintenance fees, called "dues" by DVC). DVC's "dues" are a committment for 30-50 years, depending on what resort you buy. That's longer than the mortgage on your house, and although the numbers are smaller, it is still a very significant longterm committment.

No, you don't have to keep any timeshare forever and ever, Amen. But...if you're not going to keep it forever, you need to have a realistic exit strategy. If you pay THOUSANDS of dollars to buy in, a rational exit strategy becomes very problematic. If you pay those kinds of bucks and get out later, you're going to take a financial beating.

In making this critical first decision, you need to consider ALL options to timeshares. That includes traditional cash hotel reservations (often with good discounts), renting reservations from timeshare owners (including DVC owners), staying offsite at WDW with really significant savings, and buying other timeshares instead of/in addition to DVC.

My third suggestion is -- before you buy DVC -- REALLY consider how you plan to use it.

IMHO, DVC is a fine timeshare...IF you use it exclusively for DVC resorts at WDW, and if you just wouldn't be satisfied staying anywhere but onsite in "deluxe" accommodations (and some would dispute that description of DVC).

I would argue that there are better options everywhere else where DVC has resorts. Better in Hilton Head, better on both Florida coasts, better in California, and WAY better in Hawaii.

Using DVC points outside DVC is a sucker bet, with a few exceptions in RCI trades.

Fourth suggestion -- speaking of RCI: If you want to do any exchanges other than when you've screwed up and have expiring points you HAVE to deposit in RCI...buy something else.

With regard to RCI, you have to understand what DVC is...and isn't. With many timeshares, you receive a full personal membership in one (or more) of the major timeshare exchange programs -- RCI and/or II.

That's not true with DVC. With DVC, you are not a member of any exchange program. You can exchange through RCI currently, but only a very limited number of choices (<600 of the more than 4,000 RCI resorts) and only through DVC MS.

IF you wanted to buy a timeshare for the purpose of exchanging (not recommended), you could buy a fine timeshare on eBay for $1 and get access to all 4000+ RCI resorts, plus all of their other significant benefits.
*****

So take your time. Take a deep breath, and do your homework. Don't try to force a fit. You'll be sorry if you do.

And...as a Dad to three beautiful daughters (2 adults and a 10 y/o) I can tell you that there are SO many things that are so much more important than trips to Disney...or anywhere else.

But are you glad you bought yours? We want to use ours for DIsney and Hilton Head every year or every other year.

jockotaco
04-16-2012, 09:32 PM
I want to invest in DVC however I have not been able to convince my husband that it would be a good investment for our family, I don't even think I could convince him to go to the presentation that DVC does at any of the parks - he's very suspicious of time shares. What are some of the "facts" of DVC that helped you decide to buy or convince a hesitant spouse that it would be a good investment?

I had the same problem, here is how I justified it. I am a pretty simplistic person although saving and investments are important to me. Many people on this board will try to calculate "the lost potential of money". I found this extremely hard to determine. Most people assume the market or potential of money is always going to increase. Well as we know this doesn't always hold true. So would your analysis be different assuming an 8% rate of return Vs. a -2%...Obviously. I fugured in todays dollars what it would cost to take the next 4-5 trips I want to take. For me they were 1-2 trips to Disneyland (3 nights in a 1 bedroom suite or 2 rooms), a week at WDW staying at Animal Kingdom and a week in Hawaii. I simply picked a week and priced each trips rack rate, added these together and compared to the point cost of joining DVC. For me these 3-4 trips (given the cost of a suite or 2 rooms) was a break even when comparing the points needed for a 1 bedroom villa over this same period of time. I also assumed roughly $100 per day for cooking in the unit for a family of 5 Vs. eating out based on eating Breakfast and Dinner in the unit.

k3chantal
04-16-2012, 09:49 PM
Multiple posts have reminded all of us that generally speaking, exchanging points with RCI is not the best financial trade. I think it is how you look at it. My contract is fully paid so I only have my yearly dues which are $1500.00 (currently). When we exchanged 160 points with RCI, I received a weeks' stay in Kauai, Hawaii at a wonderful resort in Princevalle. It would 'rent' for $2000.00 a week if I were to pay cash. So I, at minimum, 'saved' 500 dollars by using my points. Then I still had points 'left' over so I was able to use them to visit Disneyland that year and stay at the Grand Californian. I've paid cash for that experience in the past, so I probably would have spent $2000.00 dollars for the amount of time I spent there IF I had paid cash.

I feel for the $1500.00 dues for the year, I got an incredible deal. DL and Hawaii. I am glad I purchased my points from Disney so I had to ability to decide what to do and not to be 'locked' into disney properties. I probably feel that way because I live in California. Going to Florida 'every year' is prohibitive if you look at the cost of airplane tickets from CA. I don't look at it as 'wasting' the value of my points if I use it in different ways. I saved money on airplane travel by going to Hawaii too.

The experience I had in Hawaii was truly one of the top vacations of my life. I am glad that I have my Disney timeshare and that I took a risk. It was worth it.

disneynutz
04-16-2012, 11:10 PM
Many assume that because they are DVC Members, they will be able to book at non home resorts at 7 months or less and get what they want, that's not always true. They also assume that trading outside of DVC is easy and that is not always true. RCI has over 4000 locations but DVC only has access to 500 or so and as some members have found out even trying for a trade 2 years in advance doesn't always work.

:earsboy: Bill

k3chantal
04-17-2012, 12:34 AM
That's true Disneynutz. When I called for Hawaii; I had a list and a very open ended plan. I wanted anywhere in Hawaii (had never been there; so we were willing to explore) but would have taken anywhere on the West Coast (we were trying to save money on flights). I almost fell off my chair when I was told that I had two resorts to choose from in Hawaii;both on Kauai. I quickly hung up the phone and sat on the computer with my husband and chose which of the two looked the best from other independent websites and trip reports. I called DVC back again, holding my breathe knowing that it might have already been taken; but we were fortunate that day.

We lucked out. We know we did. And we would try again; knowing that we might not get what we think we want but might end up with a new fantastic experience.

Sammie
04-17-2012, 12:54 AM
Honestly at this point and we have owned our DVC for almost 15 years, I can not recommend DVC for anyone unless you are strictly interested in going to Disney World and you are happy with the resort you buy into as your home resort.

It is not the best way or even cheapest way to travel to other destinations.

You may at times get lucky and get another DVC resort at 7 months other than your home resort but many times you won't. Only buy where you could be happy staying there for many years.

At first it seems you will never get tired of Disney vacations but even too much of a good thing at times is simply too much.

I would only buy enough points to go every other year starting out and see how it fits.

As your children age you will soon see it gets harder and harder to plan 11- 8 months out due to their school, sports or work schedules.

Good luck, we are glad we bought when prices were lower, would I do it again at today's prices, no.

JimMIA
04-17-2012, 07:23 AM
I feel for the $1500.00 dues for the year, I got an incredible deal. DL and Hawaii. You DID get a good deal.

One of the problems with generalities is they're not always correct. That's true of the conventional wisdom about RCI exchanges not being a good use of your points. You can get good deals exchanging DVC through RCI...but your choices are limited and the process is cumbersome.

But "deals" are relative.

For example, I own Wyndham. Without exchanging, I have access to ELEVEN Wyndham resorts in Hawaii including SIX on Kauai. Wyndham has the same number of resorts in Hawaii as DVC has in their entire system. And exchanging through RCI, I have dozens of choices in Hawaii...not two. For well under $1,000 in dues, I can get a full week in a 2 bedroom in Hawaii either way.

Dean
04-17-2012, 08:00 AM
Multiple posts have reminded all of us that generally speaking, exchanging points with RCI is not the best financial trade. I think it is how you look at it. My contract is fully paid so I only have my yearly dues which are $1500.00 (currently). When we exchanged 160 points with RCI, I received a weeks' stay in Kauai, Hawaii at a wonderful resort in Princevalle. It would 'rent' for $2000.00 a week if I were to pay cash. So I, at minimum, 'saved' 500 dollars by using my points. Then I still had points 'left' over so I was able to use them to visit Disneyland that year and stay at the Grand Californian. I've paid cash for that experience in the past, so I probably would have spent $2000.00 dollars for the amount of time I spent there IF I had paid cash.

I feel for the $1500.00 dues for the year, I got an incredible deal. DL and Hawaii. I am glad I purchased my points from Disney so I had to ability to decide what to do and not to be 'locked' into disney properties. I probably feel that way because I live in California. Going to Florida 'every year' is prohibitive if you look at the cost of airplane tickets from CA. I don't look at it as 'wasting' the value of my points if I use it in different ways. I saved money on airplane travel by going to Hawaii too.

The experience I had in Hawaii was truly one of the top vacations of my life. I am glad that I have my Disney timeshare and that I took a risk. It was worth it.A couple of points. First, buying in to trade or use for cruises or anything other than to stay at DVC resorts is NEVER a good or reasonable choice. Already owning and deciding to use those options is a different situation, one that is reasonable or not depending on the specifics but it's your choice to make whatever decisions you chose, good or bad. One should consider the up front costs, esp for other than a one time deal. One should also at least consider the value of what is being given up including the possibility of renting those points. Another option and one that is usually the best for someone looking at doing other timeshares routinely is to buy less DVC points and look at a different timeshare option for non DVC trips.

Dean
04-17-2012, 08:07 AM
I want to invest in DVC however I have not been able to convince my husband that it would be a good investment for our family, I don't even think I could convince him to go to the presentation that DVC does at any of the parks - he's very suspicious of time shares. What are some of the "facts" of DVC that helped you decide to buy or convince a hesitant spouse that it would be a good investment?Translation, he's heard hearsay about timeshares but doesn't know anything about them. I'm assuming you've asked him and reasoned with him and he refused. If this is the case, and you want to investigate, do so on your own and you could even buy on your own potentially, are you the planner of the group? One thing you might try is to challenge him. Just realize that if he does actually investigate timeshares, he may come up with a different choice than you are looking at. Comparatively DVC is still very expensive compared to most timeshares and that's both to buy in and every year.

Mick West
04-18-2012, 12:37 PM
FACTS:
- With DVC I can go more often and stay in resorts I couldn't afford otherwise
- Can take kids and grandkids and create great memories, stay in beautiful locations (Animal Kingdom, Savannah view/last rip- Bay Lake Tower, 1 BR, MK view - would have cost over $600 per night!)
- On two occassions I took 13 family members, had two, 2BR units at Beach Club villas, at no room cost to any of thefamily. (These would have been over $800 a night!)
- Septof 2011 - cruise on the dream
- I kept up with my visits and rack rates and figure I "paid" for my original purchase price in 7 years.
- Going in Sept 12, friends flying in from Texas to meet us. They've got a room and will travel on Magical Express - I'm their hero! (Hopefully they'll but me a meal!!)

Dean
04-18-2012, 09:02 PM
FACTS:
- With DVC I can go more often and stay in resorts I couldn't afford otherwise
- Can take kids and grandkids and create great memories, stay in beautiful locations (Animal Kingdom, Savannah view/last rip- Bay Lake Tower, 1 BR, MK view - would have cost over $600 per night!)
- On two occassions I took 13 family members, had two, 2BR units at Beach Club villas, at no room cost to any of thefamily. (These would have been over $800 a night!)
- Septof 2011 - cruise on the dream
- I kept up with my visits and rack rates and figure I "paid" for my original purchase price in 7 years.
- Going in Sept 12, friends flying in from Texas to meet us. They've got a room and will travel on Magical Express - I'm their hero! (Hopefully they'll but me a meal!!)There are cheaper ways to stay on property than DVC so technically you may have additional value but you also have additional cost. Rack rates for Disney in general have no meaning unless you would have paid those prices.

JimMIA
04-19-2012, 09:30 AM
Rack rates for Disney in general have no meaning unless you would have paid those prices.This is one of the key facts that we usually leave out in our financial gymnastics to justify any timeshare. To get an accurate picture (as opposed to a justification) you really have to look at ALL options...and you have to do honest math

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have NEVER paid rack rate anywhere at WDW. It's such an overbuilt area that there is always some kind of deal.

ELMC
04-19-2012, 10:17 AM
This is one of the key facts that we usually leave out in our financial gymnastics to justify any timeshare. To get an accurate picture (as opposed to a justification) you really have to look at ALL options...and you have to do honest math

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have NEVER paid rack rate anywhere at WDW. It's such an overbuilt area that there is always some kind of deal.

I completely agree. If you want an honest comparison to determine the value of DVC vs. staying in Deluxes paying OOP, you should really use a 30% discount from rack rate or calculate renting points at $10 a point. If you do then you will discover that the "break even" point for a direct purchase that the DVC salespeople speak about is not 7 years like they say, but more like 14 years (not accounting for time value of money). If you finance, the break even point is well beyond 20 years.

fmer55
04-19-2012, 10:47 AM
I completely agree. If you want an honest comparison to determine the value of DVC vs. staying in Deluxes paying OOP, you should really use a 30% discount from rack rate or calculate renting points at $10 a point. If you do then you will discover that the "break even" point for a direct purchase that the DVC salespeople speak about is not 7 years like they say, but more like 14 years (not accounting for time value of money). If you finance, the break even point is well beyond 20 years.

I would like to give a laymans explanation of my computations.

Stayed boardwalk concierge deluxe room 2/8-2/12. cost of room alone with a 30% discount was $1900.

with the 200 points i am purchasing i will be able to do the same stay in a 1bdrm preferred and then add a 3 night stay in a studio/preferred in oct25-28. the rate for those 3 nights is 1755rack-30%=1228.

so in my simple mind i am getting $3128 woth of lodging for my $1100 MF.

I just looked at preferred studio in dream season(same as early feb) and rack rate for a studio(not a 1br) is 1800, so assuming the 30% discount you are looking at $1260. the price is also the same for a savanna studio.

so now my 2 vacations at 30% discount are 1228+1260=2488 compared to MF's of 1100. i have a savings of 1388 so if you take my 11k initial investment my break even is 7.9 years. keep in mind this is including a studio for the feb stay which will actually be a one bdrm.

and for the record i refuse to include a 3% growth of money based on inflation and possible earnings due to my complete lack of faith in the new world economy:smokin:

just a simpletons view of DVC:teacher:

Dean
04-19-2012, 12:27 PM
I completely agree. If you want an honest comparison to determine the value of DVC vs. staying in Deluxes paying OOP, you should really use a 30% discount from rack rate or calculate renting points at $10 a point. If you do then you will discover that the "break even" point for a direct purchase that the DVC salespeople speak about is not 7 years like they say, but more like 14 years (not accounting for time value of money). If you finance, the break even point is well beyond 20 years.And to be honest, that's the best case scenario. Any hiccups could easily throw it over to the negative.

I would like to give a laymans explanation of my computations.

Stayed boardwalk concierge deluxe room 2/8-2/12. cost of room alone with a 30% discount was $1900.

with the 200 points i am purchasing i will be able to do the same stay in a 1bdrm preferred and then add a 3 night stay in a studio/preferred in oct25-28. the rate for those 3 nights is 1755rack-30%=1228.

so in my simple mind i am getting $3128 woth of lodging for my $1100 MF.

I just looked at preferred studio in dream season(same as early feb) and rack rate for a studio(not a 1br) is 1800, so assuming the 30% discount you are looking at $1260. the price is also the same for a savanna studio.

so now my 2 vacations at 30% discount are 1228+1260=2488 compared to MF's of 1100. i have a savings of 1388 so if you take my 11k initial investment my break even is 7.9 years. keep in mind this is including a studio for the feb stay which will actually be a one bdrm.

and for the record i refuse to include a 3% growth of money based on inflation and possible earnings due to my complete lack of faith in the new world economy:smokin:

just a simpletons view of DVC:teacher:You're certainly free to use any assumptions you like but to not assume growth of investments, you are definitely an outlier. Also, your comparisons are flawed in that you're comparing concierge rooms to DVC and your option in question (DVC) as it's own benchmark. I've had around 15-20 DVC units the last 2-3 years (all 1 & 2 BR) with my cost being around $400 per week so it's all relative.

fmer55
04-19-2012, 04:01 PM
And to be honest, that's the best case scenario. Any hiccups could easily throw it over to the negative.

You're certainly free to use any assumptions you like but to not assume growth of investments, you are definitely an outlier. Also, your comparisons are flawed in that you're comparing concierge rooms to DVC and your option in question (DVC) as it's own benchmark. I've had around 15-20 DVC units the last 2-3 years (all 1 & 2 BR) with my cost being around $400 per week so it's all relative.

neither were concierge rooms in my assumptions, i went on and put in disney site and put in vacations, both of the latter comparisons are studios........

mjc2003
04-19-2012, 04:14 PM
Rack rates for Disney in general have no meaning unless you would have paid those prices.


I think this is a great point, and really one of the critical components to the true "value" of DVC. We bought DVC b/c we would have and did pay those prices. I spent about $13,000 on cash reservations for a 2 bedroom for 2 vacations. Suddenly a resale contract seemed to make sense.
But if you would never spend that money otherwise, then it's a nice reassurance or justification for a discretionary purchase, but nothing more.

And really the money you "save" on the rooms, if you were only going to stay deluxe, is really lost on the increased number of trips you end up taking.

Dean
04-19-2012, 04:27 PM
neither were concierge rooms in my assumptions, i went on and put in disney site and put in vacations, both of the latter comparisons are studios........I'm sorry if I misread but I thought I read BW concierge deluxe room and $1900, my mistake.

crisi
04-19-2012, 04:39 PM
My sister bought some other timeshare and has successfully traded into DVC four out of five years now. Including BCV and vakl. She pays less in dues, has better RCi trade choices, and paid less for her contact. The fifth year they were happy over at bonnet creek.

If you need to be on site, buy DVC. If you need a specific DVC resort, buy at that resort. If your goal is to enjoy Disney, and if you end up off site once in a while, that's ok, buy someone elses reputible timeshare and trade in.

DougEMG
04-20-2012, 12:15 PM
This is one of the key facts that we usually leave out in our financial gymnastics to justify any timeshare. To get an accurate picture (as opposed to a justification) you really have to look at ALL options...and you have to do honest math

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have NEVER paid rack rate anywhere at WDW. It's such an overbuilt area that there is always some kind of deal.

Completely agree. When looking into DVC I compared it to staying at a moderate which is what we always did.

When I first looked at DVC it was at direct pricing levels only and I was never comfortable with the number of years it was going to take to break even so I never bought. It wasn't till resale prices dropped down low enough that I was comfortable with how long it was going to take to break even that I ended up buying.

DougEMG
04-20-2012, 12:24 PM
That's what I do. I have stayed at a DVC resort (SSR, OKW, WLV and BCV) every year. I have never stayed off site. I am always able to find a DVC resort to trade for. If your interested, I have some of my units that I'm looking to sell. They will be a lot less than what you pay for a DVC resort.

I'm all for staying on site as cheap as possible and this trading in sounds like an interesting option. How easy is it to do? I'm on the west coast and currently have to go during school vacations (spring break, summer and Christmas). To make it worth while we always go for at least 2-3 weeks at a time. Is this easy to do with trading or is it hard to get multiple weeks in a row at very specific times.

When we retire though, the plan is to do longer trips of around 4 weeks at a time, want to escape the winters.

Thanks

Dean
04-20-2012, 12:51 PM
I'm all for staying on site as cheap as possible and this trading in sounds like an interesting option. How easy is it to do? I'm on the west coast and currently have to go during school vacations (spring break, summer and Christmas). To make it worth while we always go for at least 2-3 weeks at a time. Is this easy to do with trading or is it hard to get multiple weeks in a row at very specific times.

When we retire though, the plan is to do longer trips of around 4 weeks at a time, want to escape the winters.

ThanksIt depends on RCI weeks vs points, how flexible you are and what you need. If you can make do with 1 BR and don't need the highest demand times, it's not difficult if you plan ahead and understand the process. It is a moving target however and in 3-5 years, this may all change.

Cinerama261
04-20-2012, 12:53 PM
I'm all for staying on site as cheap as possible and this trading in sounds like an interesting option. How easy is it to do? I'm on the west coast and currently have to go during school vacations (spring break, summer and Christmas). To make it worth while we always go for at least 2-3 weeks at a time. Is this easy to do with trading or is it hard to get multiple weeks in a row at very specific times.

When we retire though, the plan is to do longer trips of around 4 weeks at a time, want to escape the winters.

Thanks

Spring break and Christmas not as easy to find as during the summer. Getting a week is easy, two to three weeks in a row not as easy but possible.

Mick West
04-20-2012, 01:48 PM
Man, I am so glad I'm not a bean counter, master excel spreadsheet freak, or an analyst. Just a hard working guy that is so glad I bought into DVC and look forward to every trip - especially when my six year old grandson goes along, which he has on five occassions! No, I certainly don't look at is an investment, dollar wise - but it has certainly been an investment in many other forms of return!

montrealdisneylovers
04-20-2012, 04:52 PM
Man, I am so glad I'm not a bean counter, master excel spreadsheet freak, or an analyst. Just a hard working guy that is so glad I bought into DVC and look forward to every trip - especially when my six year old grandson goes along, which he has on five occassions! No, I certainly don't look at is an investment, dollar wise - but it has certainly been an investment in many other forms of return!

My sentiments exactly. Kind of like that Mastercard commercial: some things are priceless!!!:thumbsup2

Dean
04-20-2012, 05:42 PM
Man, I am so glad I'm not a bean counter, master excel spreadsheet freak, or an analyst. Just a hard working guy that is so glad I bought into DVC and look forward to every trip - especially when my six year old grandson goes along, which he has on five occassions! No, I certainly don't look at is an investment, dollar wise - but it has certainly been an investment in many other forms of return!I'm glad it's been good for you but owning DVC has not been a blessing for everyone. I can't speak for all but one of my goals in these type of thread's is to get people to think and act on facts and not emotions.

disneynutz
04-20-2012, 07:20 PM
Having just stayed a few nights at the Yacht Club, I find it difficult to now say that DVC is a deluxe stay. DVC is more like a moderate with larger rooms. The Yacht Club rooms were immaculate, the service exceptional, truly a first class experience.

Compare that to our present Club Level stay at AKV. The studio fridge had been turned off and water was leaking across the floor. The kitchenette faucet was loose, a cobweb hanging from the ceiling above the sofa, and cheese crackers on the floor next to the sofa.

:earsboy: Bill

Dean
04-20-2012, 08:42 PM
Having just stayed a few nights at the Yacht Club, I find it difficult to now say that DVC is a deluxe stay. DVC is more like a moderate with larger rooms. The Yacht Club rooms were immaculate, the service exceptional, truly a first class experience.

Compare that to our present Club Level stay at AKV. The studio fridge had been turned off and water was leaking across the floor. The kitchenette faucet was loose, a cobweb hanging from the ceiling above the sofa, and cheese crackers on the floor next to the sofa.

:earsboy: BillAdd to that the fact that OKW and SSR are more moderate in location, setup, amenities and feel and that AKV and VWL are less deluxe even for the regular portion than say BWI, YC/BC and GF. I love DVC and the requisite compromises don't bother me at all, but we do need to realize what the compromises are that are built in to DVC and timeshares in general. It's the unnecessary compromises with (at times) poor maint, customer service and housekeeping that I have an issue with. Add to that when I stay in other top timeshares I get better service, more responsiveness and the feeling that how I rate them matters to the employees, on site management and central management. To be clear, we generally don't have a problem with DVC but the comparison between how much better we're treated at other resorts is fairly striking.

crisi
04-21-2012, 10:27 AM
Man, I am so glad I'm not a bean counter, master excel spreadsheet freak, or an analyst. Just a hard working guy that is so glad I bought into DVC and look forward to every trip - especially when my six year old grandson goes along, which he has on five occassions! No, I certainly don't look at is an investment, dollar wise - but it has certainly been an investment in many other forms of return!

Some of us enjoy these discussions and calculations. Geeking out to financial analysis and risk isn't everyone's idea of a good time.

But as Dean said, DVC hasn't been a blessing for everyone. And as I just said in another thread, right now there is probably someone trying really hard to justify this purchase, that will justify it on people saying how wonderful it is, where it is going to come back and be a regret. I try and remember that there is a young couple out there, that loves Disney, that is planning their lives together with nothing but stars in their eyes, without a lot of financial experience, who can JUST BARELY afford this. And three years from now when they are trying to figure out how to pay for daycare for surprise twins, DVC is going to be a millstone, not a blessing.

ToddyLu
04-21-2012, 04:23 PM
:) He bought a brand new Jeep Wrangler the week before and traded in my car to get it---yep, I waited for a weak moment when he kinda had a little guilt. Now he loves the points as much as I do. I like DVC more than I like his Jeep. :cool1:

Robin&Marian+2
04-22-2012, 08:14 PM
Some of us enjoy these discussions and calculations. Geeking out to financial analysis and risk isn't everyone's idea of a good time.

But as Dean said, DVC hasn't been a blessing for everyone. And as I just said in another thread, right now there is probably someone trying really hard to justify this purchase, that will justify it on people saying how wonderful it is, where it is going to come back and be a regret. I try and remember that there is a young couple out there, that loves Disney, that is planning their lives together with nothing but stars in their eyes, without a lot of financial experience, who can JUST BARELY afford this. And three years from now when they are trying to figure out how to pay for daycare for surprise twins, DVC is going to be a millstone, not a blessing.

I for one am finding this thread very helpful. Our surprise twins are 4 years old ;) and we wouldn't struggle to afford this, but I like to go into things eyes open so I appreciate hearing the good with the bad.

luvslikepi
04-23-2012, 12:59 PM
Thanks for all the hints, tips and debates on this one. Our family already has RCI and have used in the in WDW area but we prefer staying on-property when we're there. Hubby and I have been discussing it more and more - now it's just more wait and see if this is really what we want to do.

JoJostar
04-24-2012, 03:15 PM
I hate to say it, but I am one of the ones who went into my DVC purchase with stars in my eyes and now regret it. I love, love Disney and want to go everytime that I can. I have also really liked every DVC resort that I have stayed in (and we have stayed in all but SSR). Now here is the big BUT, I find it really difficult to plan as far in advance as we need for DVC. I have tried several trips both at DVC and exchanges that I could not take because of no availability. So while DVC may be great for a lot of people, I have discovered that I need more flexibility for vacation planning than DVC affords me.

gerrym51
05-01-2012, 08:39 PM
the best dvc valu is at disneyworld itself. I have owned DVCsince 93 at okw.

have used many on property resorts but OKW is by far the best

Shazzasmd
05-01-2012, 09:21 PM
I also appreciate the unbiased views - both pros and cons. After 2 weeks of spreadsheet mania, I can make the numbers come out to support either a buy or no-buy option.

In the end, it comes down to convenience. We go to WDW for two reasons - a family trip where we will pay what we have to for a Deluxe Resort (or Villa), and short trips with just my husband and I, where we take advantage of the Fl Resident rate, but still tend to spend more than we need to ( e.g. Concierge or 1 Bedroom for just 2 people). We've stayed in an OKW 2 bedroom, and AKV GV - both were very nice (better than anticipated).

We'll make a trip before buying to check out BCV and BVW, and that will seal the deal - or not!

Dean
05-01-2012, 09:33 PM
I also appreciate the unbiased views - both pros and cons. After 2 weeks of spreadsheet mania, I can make the numbers come out to support either a buy or no-buy option.

In the end, it comes down to convenience. We go to WDW for two reasons - a family trip where we will pay what we have to for a Deluxe Resort (or Villa), and short trips with just my husband and I, where we take advantage of the Fl Resident rate, but still tend to spend more than we need to ( e.g. Concierge or 1 Bedroom for just 2 people). We've stayed in an OKW 2 bedroom, and AKV GV - both were very nice (better than anticipated).

We'll make a trip before buying to check out BCV and BVW, and that will seal the deal - or not!The spread sheet and numbers evaluation is very important as is a hard look at how it fits into your finances. However, as I've tried to point out on several threads lately, there is a psychologic component that's hard to plan for but is certainly real. I've seen far too many people run the numbers on studios and end up staying in 1 & 2 BR units. Those units are great but the economics of them is far different than studios. DVC also tends to promote more and longer trips with more money spent other places.

Shazzasmd
05-01-2012, 09:55 PM
Dean - agree. I probably wasn't clear, but I think I was trying to say pretty much the same thing. Financial analysis is important - More so for some than others. Once that hurdle is passed, it seems like it does come down to the emotional/psychological component of the decision.

(FWIW, I did all my DVC stays for my calcs with at least a 1 bedroom, and with the best view options ;) )

ELMC
05-01-2012, 10:26 PM
The spread sheet and numbers evaluation is very important as is a hard look at how it fits into your finances. However, as I've tried to point out on several threads lately, there is a psychologic component that's hard to plan for but is certainly real. I've seen far too many people run the numbers on studios and end up staying in 1 & 2 BR units. Those units are great but the economics of them is far different than studios. DVC also tends to promote more and longer trips with more money spent other places.

I completely agree. It's so tempting to look at the Grande Villa column and say "Hey...I have enough points for that...maybe I should book it!" What I tend to do in this case is multiply the number of points by 10, realize that's how much money it costs, and have my wife bring the smelling salts to wake me up after I passed out.

Seriously, though, you bring up a very good point. I think it would be helpful for people to write down their assumptions about room size, view and time of year so that they can revisit it when they make their reservations. Personally, I based my numbers on a 2 BR with preferred views, but I can see myself going the other way and going with a 1 BR or a lesser view to try to save points.