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your friend
04-01-2012, 11:13 AM
My wife and I are going back and forth with purchasing. We both want to purchase but she thinks we should go with a direct purchase and I think we should purchase resale. I just don't see the point of paying so much more for the direct purchase. Am I wrong? I think the purchase would be good for us we have an 18 year old, a 3 year old (her first trip was last year and she loved it), and one on the way. This purchase will provide us with vacations for quite some time. My only other concern is the kids getting tired of Disney but that is up to us to make sure doesn't happen.

DizBub
04-01-2012, 12:42 PM
Depends on WHERE you want to purchase. We purchased BLT direct and added on direct, back when resale for BLT really wasn't an option. Now the prices are just out of sight!!! Since then we bought SSR resale, with a savings of 50%.

If you are not picky about where and when you want to stay, I would suggest that resale at SSR/OKW would give you the best value. If this doesn't appeal to you they are offering a pretty decent incentive for AKV/Aulani until later this month.

Keep us posted about your decision!!

disneynutz
04-01-2012, 12:48 PM
Keep reading the posts here on the DIS, information is power.

The only way that I would buy direct is if I had to finance. For most people the direct versus resale restrictions are a psychological sales tactic and not something that will truly affect them.

You are committing to a vacation at the same place for years to come and the inflated and ever increasing Disney prices that are associated with a Disney vacation. Transportation, food, admission tickets, dues, Disney stuff, hard ticket events, F&W, F&G, Adventures By Disney and don't forget a cruise or two.

Project the cost for your vacations for the time that you intend to own and you can get a good idea of what you are getting yourself into.

:earsboy: Bill

permavac
04-01-2012, 01:14 PM
We bought resale and are adding on via resale. Here are some of the considerations:

I agree with disneynutz - if we had to finance we probably would have purchased through Disney. If using your points for any of those "collections" (i.e. Concierge, Adventure, Disney) is a big deal then you have to buy direct through Disney. As, DizBub points out, if one of the new properties is where you have to stay a lot, i.e. VGC and Aulani, then you are probably better off purchasing through Disney since resales are far and few between and the price difference is not that great. If you aren't too concerned about cost and want to close on your contract as quickly as possible, direct through Disney is the way to go.

If none of those things above apply to you AND you don't mind waiting about 6 to 8 weeks to close (and that's after an offer has been made, negotiated, and accepted) AND you want to save money on your contracts (could be thousands of dollars depending on where and how many points you buy) then you should just buy resale. Oh, and you may have to go through the entire process again if the resale contract you are contracted to buy is ROFR'd by Disney so that will mean another couple of months potentially. It doesn't seem to happen often but it does happen.

Good luck with your decision.

Terri

permavac
04-01-2012, 01:38 PM
...My only other concern is the kids getting tired of Disney but that is up to us to make sure doesn't happen.

To this point, I actually have to go against the prevailing theme of most DVC polls that I have read where people either wish they had bought in sooner or bought more points initially. We started going to Disney in 2005 and after many value/moderate stays, we rented DVC points via 2 owners for stays in 2007 & 2008. We bought a 25-point contract in 2008. We bought such a small contract because we wanted to pay cash. If I had had more money available for the purchase at the time I would have bought as many points as I thought we would need: over 200 - since we were doing 2 to 3 trips a year. After staying DVC we thought we would never want to "go back" to the other value/moderate resorts. We did a few transfers of points into our account over the years (since 25 points don't go very far) but even with that we found ourselves needing to supplement our Disney trips with value/moderate hotel stays here and there and found that we still enjoyed staying at these places, depending on the trip. We also discovered the Fort Wilderness campground during this time and we enjoy driving our RV down to stay there sometimes. All of our trips have been different and fun in their own way, no matter where we are staying. So, I am glad we didn't purchase such a large contract to begin with. Also, something I forgot to mention in my other post, you can't buy smaller contracts direct through Disney. Their lowest point purchase is 100 points I think (used to be 160 so at least 100 is an improvement). Smaller contracts do better via resale (sell more quickly and for higher prices but that does also mean that we paid more per point than if we had bought 1 larger contract) so I am glad that we have our small contract (that we plan on selling once our 2 other contracts that we are in the process of buying close). Our 2 new contracts total 125 points so we have enough to stay one+ week at a DVC and I think that will be plenty for us. If we ever need more points, we will just do a transfer or use Disney's new system of selling you 24 points per contract per year (for $15 per point) to supplement any extra points we need. Our 2 new contracts are also at 2 different resorts so are able to have the 11-month window booking advantage at 2 resorts instead of one.

Long story short, I'm glad we waited 3+ years to buy in "fully" since we now know what we really plan on doing with those points. I'm glad we will have (hopefully after passing ROFR) 2 small contracts with the ability to bank, borrow and get transfers into every year and, if there ever is a problem with our finances (or our desire to keep going to Disney), rent out our points or sell our contracts with hopefully little trouble.

Terri

cmwade77
04-01-2012, 04:03 PM
Be careful to look at all costs with resales and factor in any incentives that Disney would offer for buying direct.

In our case, we bought direct, because we found their financing to be better than the financing available for resales AND because of the incentives, the cost was around the same price per point as buying used at another resort. (We bought in to VGC, so there were no resales available for there at the time).

ELMC
04-01-2012, 06:19 PM
The only way that I would buy direct is if I had to finance.

Bill, I'm surprised by this comment by you. I have read a lot of your posts that demonstrate the foresight to consider all the costs over time of buying DVC (tickets, transportation, food, etc.) You don't sound like the type of person who would finance a DVC purchase. I think it's important to point out here that it is generally accepted that the finance charges will erase any savings that DVC may offer and might even end up costing more.

[COLOR="Blue"]
For most people the direct versus resale restrictions are a psychological sales tactic and not something that will truly affect them.


:earsboy: Bill

Very well said. I will go one further and say that it is using fear as a sales tactic which, although very powerful, is also irresponsible.

DizBub
04-01-2012, 06:57 PM
Be careful to look at all costs with resales and factor in any incentives that Disney would offer for buying direct.

In our case, we bought direct, because we found their financing to be better than the financing available for resales AND because of the incentives, the cost was around the same price per point as buying used at another resort. (We bought in to VGC, so there were no resales available for there at the time).

I realize that most people here think it's a horrible sin to finance a DVC purchase. I believe people have their own reasons for doing whatever it is that they need to do. We could NOT pull the trigger on Disney financing when we bought direct. I think back then it was 11-14%. We came home and arranged our own financing at 4.24% through our credit union, we pledged our shares. Plus, we put the down payments on the Disney Visa (paid it off within 6 months interest free and got the rewards $).

Since then we have added on twice and both times we refinanced at 1% lower each time. We currently have our loan at 2.24% and still have all our money in the bank. We treat our DVC loan like a car payment with the member's fees as maintenance on the "car". Insurance, gas, tags, etc. Yes, we financed but other than the DVC loan we are totally debt free and fully invested. This is disposable income we are are playing with. Besides, regular savings pay nothing these days.

There are many ways to do this. One size does not fit all.

disneynutz
04-01-2012, 07:09 PM
Bill, I'm surprised by this comment by you. I have read a lot of your posts that demonstrate the foresight to consider all the costs over time of buying DVC (tickets, transportation, food, etc.) You don't sound like the type of person who would finance a DVC purchase. I think it's important to point out here that it is generally accepted that the finance charges will erase any savings that DVC may offer and might even end up costing more.

I do agree with you but the reality is that many don't have the cash to buy a contract without financing. There were a lot of financial decisions that we made when we were young that we wouldn't make today now that we are mature and smarter. :rotfl2:

People will do what they want, "free will" and like I said, financing would be the only consideration for buying direct.

:earsboy: Bill

DisDad07
04-01-2012, 07:29 PM
I can only speak for our family, but our (kids) are now 28 and 24, the youngest married. and they still love going with us, once every year. My DW and I go to FWF for a second trip ever Oct. and at least 1 of them trys to tag along. If you make WDW a special place for the whole family, I dont think you will have a problem with them still wanting to go back year after year.

Brian Noble
04-01-2012, 08:15 PM
she thinks we should go with a direct purchase and I think we should purchase resale.
You describe (very good) reasons why you should buy resale. You don't explain why she thinks a direct purchase has value. We would need to hear that reason before we give you any advice.

That said, personally I would never buy direct if I were buying today. The price spread cannot be justified by the marginal options that direct purchasers enjoy.

My only other concern is the kids getting tired of Disney but that is up to us to make sure doesn't happen.
This is a very valid concern. Our kids are 11 and 13, and are at the point where they don't mind going to WDW but they also really enjoy other destinations as well. And, frankly, so do we---we value the diversity in doing other things. But, DVC Membership is really only a good value if you use it *on DVC lodging*.

fmer55
04-01-2012, 09:13 PM
I realize that most people here think it's a horrible sin to finance a DVC purchase. I believe people have their own reasons for doing whatever it is that they need to do. We could NOT pull the trigger on Disney financing when we bought direct. I think back then it was 11-14%. We came home and arranged our own financing at 4.24% through our credit union, we pledged our shares. Plus, we put the down payments on the Disney Visa (paid it off within 6 months interest free and got the rewards $).

Since then we have added on twice and both times we refinanced at 1% lower each time. We currently have our loan at 2.24% and still have all our money in the bank. We treat our DVC loan like a car payment with the member's fees as maintenance on the "car". Insurance, gas, tags, etc. Yes, we financed but other than the DVC loan we are totally debt free and fully invested. This is disposable income we are are playing with. Besides, regular savings pay nothing these days.

There are many ways to do this. One size does not fit all.

regular savings pays nothing? o.00 percent >2.24.....banks love you!!!!


i would never finance a car that i drove 2 to 3 times a yr:confused3

your friend
04-01-2012, 09:46 PM
You describe (very good) reasons why you should buy resale. You don't explain why she thinks a direct purchase has value. We would need to hear that reason before we give you any advice.

That said, personally I would never buy direct if I were buying today. The price spread cannot be justified by the marginal options that direct purchasers enjoy.


This is a very valid concern. Our kids are 11 and 13, and are at the point where they don't mind going to WDW but they also really enjoy other destinations as well. And, frankly, so do we---we value the diversity in doing other things. But, DVC Membership is really only a good value if you use it *on DVC lodging*.

My wife has a couple different reasons for buying direct. 1. she thinks in some way we will get ripped off. 2. she wants to do a disney cruise. 3. she is curious about using our points through the exchange program.

I just feel like Disney is the best place for a family vacation especially with little ones and with another one on the way we should purchase now and be set for vacations for a while. Our 18 year old still likes going to disney and since we went on our 3 year old's birthday last year she thinks every birthday will be at Disney(it was funny the other day when we asked her about what she wanted to do for her birthday next year, she looked like we were crazy and said we are going to disney). I am thinking that whatever comes out next will like disney also. So I think it is a good move but I am torn between a direct purchase and resale. Is it crazy to think that Disney will one day negate all resale deals? I know it sounds crazy but I am not totally sold on the resale deal because I don't like getting ripped off. Which I know that nobody does but do resales benefit disney in anyway that they support the resale of their vacation club deeds? Sorry to ramble just really torn at the moment. I have the money to do it and I have a lot of questions.

DizBub
04-01-2012, 11:33 PM
I am still waiting to close on my own resale. Hopefully this week. The restrictions imposed on resale contracts now don't bother me because I bought to use these points at WDW exclusively. Don't want to cruise on these points and don't intend to travel elsewhere on them. Any further restrictions in the future will most likely not effect current resale buyers. You would have a legal deed, just like direct buyers. DVC does not exercise ROFR very much at all. (You should check out the ROFR thread here http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2661661) DVC doesn't want these contracts back, they would have to pay the dues on them. The resale market for DVC is VERY healthy. There are 3 or 4 very reputable resale brokers with thousands of happy customers, buyers and sellers. The savings are very real. I personally saved $7750 on 150 points at SSR with 300 points coming (150 banked 2011 points that I didn't have to pay dues on).

I don't blame you and your DW for being skeptical. It takes time to make a decision this large. Take your time and research, research and do more research. If you have the money to go direct, go for it. I have to say that there is a level of comfort going that way and it is quick and easy. Resale takes 2+ months.

What does it matter what strangers say on a message board??? WE'VE already drunk the kool-ade!!!!

Good luck!!

Brian Noble
04-02-2012, 09:32 AM
1. she thinks in some way we will get ripped off.
Is it crazy to think that Disney will one day negate all resale deals?
This really isn't a concern. Others can speak to this with more authority than I can, but my reading of the way the program is set up is that this is nearly impossible for existing resorts.

2. she wants to do a disney cruise.
It is almost always better to rent out your points at market rates, and then pay cash for your cruise, than it is to exchange your points for one.

3. she is curious about using our points through the exchange program.
This is available to resale owners. However, much as with cruising, it's not a particularly good deal.


Sorry to ramble just really torn at the moment. I have the money to do it and I have a lot of questions.
Nothing wrong with that. Take your time, learn the program, and make the right decision for your family. There is really no hurry, because as you rightly understand, this is a long term commitment.

Mtnman44
04-02-2012, 11:59 AM
I agree with Brian. The current premium in price you pay Direct vs. the market price of nearly all of the DVC properties is so large that I personally can't see any advantage in going direct.

As mentioned the "benefits" retained by direct purchasers are small and frankly, offer no actual financial value, only a marketing angle for DVC to sell direct. In fact, these trading perks have long been considered by most to be a waste of value to use DVC points on.

That said, personally I would never buy direct if I were buying today. The price spread cannot be justified by the marginal options that direct purchasers enjoy.


This is a very valid concern. Our kids are 11 and 13, and are at the point where they don't mind going to WDW but they also really enjoy other destinations as well. And, frankly, so do we---we value the diversity in doing other things. But, DVC Membership is really only a good value if you use it *on DVC lodging*.

gatorgirl02
04-02-2012, 12:46 PM
Adding on the discussion, (and I am by no means an expert around here), but if you look at the points chart, you would really not want to use your points for your Disney cruise. It some cases, it would be hundreds or even thousands of dollars more for a cruise using points vs. buying in cash. I initally was concerned about the cruise option too, but I am sure that I would rent the points that year and pay cash for the cruise, if that is what we wanted to do that year.

raftislander
04-02-2012, 03:17 PM
I am a new owner of DVC. I went the resale route. My first contract was ROFR's but my second one went through. My first offer was with the Timeshare Store and the second was with Fidelity. I had some issues with the title company Fidelity used, but had positive experiences with the staff at both TSS and Fidelity. If you use a reputable company that specialises in DVC resales, I think that your chances of being ripped off are negligible. I purchased at VGC, which has a waiting list if I went direct. I ended up paying $42 less per point than direct prices. It is hard for me to consider going direct at this price differential. Although the resale purchase process takes longer than direct that is only if the if the points are available. Having a waitlist situation makes this a toss up.

My contract had 96 banked points. It ends up that I will not be able to use them before they expire, so I contacted David's vacation rentals- a sponser on these boards. I have these points rented through his agency already. Again the process so far has been painless. So I would suggest that if you want to have the ability to cruise on your DVC points that you do so by renting them out then using cash.

To me the only advantage that I can see going direct is the ability to control how your points are split in your contract- ie you can opt for two 100 point contracts as opposed to buying a 200 point resale contract.

your friend
04-02-2012, 07:56 PM
One more question my wife and I were just talking she seems to think that we can't bank or borrow points is we go through resale. Is this true? I can't even think of a reason to buy direct. I just saw a BV listing for 9,500 for 150 PTS!!!!!! Also could Disney say that Resales can't go to other DVC resorts? For example if we buy at BV we can't go anywhere else.

Missyrose
04-02-2012, 08:08 PM
One more question my wife and I were just talking she seems to think that we can't bank or borrow points is we go through resale. Is this true? I can't even think of a reason to buy direct. I just saw a BV listing for 9,500 for 150 PTS!!!!!! Also could Disney say that Resales can't go to other DVC resorts? For example if we buy at BV we can't go anywhere else.

Anyone who has bought resale contracts has the same rights to bank and borrow as those who bought direct (though there have been unsubstantiated rumors that Disney could, at some point, give direct purchasers an extended banking window. But those rumors have proven to be fruitless so far.)

The only way it seems Disney could restrict owners from BWV from staying at other resorts would be to remove BWV as a whole from the club. That scenario seems about as unlikely as they get when it comes to the WDW resorts (Aulani, VB or HHI could be another story).

DizBub
04-02-2012, 08:10 PM
One more question my wife and I were just talking she seems to think that we can't bank or borrow points is we go through resale. Is this true? I can't even think of a reason to buy direct. I just saw a BV listing for 9,500 for 150 PTS!!!!!! Also could Disney say that Resales can't go to other DVC resorts? For example if we buy at BV we can't go anywhere else.

This is NOT TRUE.

VB? Do you mean Vero Beach? You could do much better than that.

Honestly, why would anybody buy resale if they thought they couldn't use their points at other resorts? It's a CLUB!!!

disneynutz
04-02-2012, 08:26 PM
Bottom line is that Disney will do what's good for Disney. They change point requirements, rules, and policies as they see fit for their needs, not ours.

The only guarantee is that you can book at your home resort before others who don't own there.

That's one of the reasons why I keep repeating that buyers should take the time to stay at the different resorts before buying and buy where they love to stay.

Will Disney change the rules and policies in the future? Only they know for sure but to be honest, I never thought that they would make the changes that they already have.

:earsboy: Bill

your friend
04-02-2012, 08:34 PM
No I'm sorry I meant BWV not VB

chalee94
04-03-2012, 10:37 AM
2. she wants to do a disney cruise.

have you actually looked at some cruise point charts?

gray52
04-03-2012, 03:11 PM
One more question my wife and I were just talking she seems to think that we can't bank or borrow points is we go through resale. Is this true? I can't even think of a reason to buy direct. I just saw a BV listing for 9,500 for 150 PTS!!!!!! Also could Disney say that Resales can't go to other DVC resorts? For example if we buy at BV we can't go anywhere else.

NOT TRUE... never has been true... there's never been a rumor that this might become true. You need to read whole lot more before you make a decision.

Let me ask you... Are you willing to pay over $7700 more to buy a contract through Disney just so you have the right to book a cruise on points instead of cash... even though booking on points doesn't make financial sense to begin with? How many cruises can you take for $7700? Since this is one of your wife's reasons for buying direct... because that's roughly the difference between buying the 150pt contract you mentioned direct vs. resale (and i even added $1000 for closing costs and first year MF to the resale contract). A poster a week or so ago bought BWV resale direct... at $115/pt. OUCH!
On the years you took a cruise, tack on another $700 (after paying your maintenance fees) that you could earn towards paying cash for a cruise if you rented your points at roughly $10/pt.

*numbers aren't precise but they are pretty close.

... and where's that BCV contract for $63/pt... i might be ready to add again!

I have two contract, both resales. 1 before the new rules, one just entered the system today!

Dean
04-03-2012, 06:16 PM
Bottom line is that Disney will do what's good for Disney. They change point requirements, rules, and policies as they see fit for their needs, not ours.

The only guarantee is that you can book at your home resort before others who don't own there.

That's one of the reasons why I keep repeating that buyers should take the time to stay at the different resorts before buying and buy where they love to stay.

Will Disney change the rules and policies in the future? Only they know for sure but to be honest, I never thought that they would make the changes that they already have.

:earsboy: Bill There's no guarantee the parks will be open and the resorts will be standing. However, ignoring the doomsday scenarios, I think there are guarantees one has the opportunity to book at the home resort at 11 months out and the opportunity to book at other club resorts the same lead time as other members. Realistically one likely has at least some exchange options like RCI or II.

My wife has a couple different reasons for buying direct. 1. she thinks in some way we will get ripped off. 2. she wants to do a disney cruise. 3. she is curious about using our points through the exchange program.

I just feel like Disney is the best place for a family vacation especially with little ones and with another one on the way we should purchase now and be set for vacations for a while. Our 18 year old still likes going to disney and since we went on our 3 year old's birthday last year she thinks every birthday will be at Disney(it was funny the other day when we asked her about what she wanted to do for her birthday next year, she looked like we were crazy and said we are going to disney). I am thinking that whatever comes out next will like disney also. So I think it is a good move but I am torn between a direct purchase and resale. Is it crazy to think that Disney will one day negate all resale deals? I know it sounds crazy but I am not totally sold on the resale deal because I don't like getting ripped off. Which I know that nobody does but do resales benefit disney in anyway that they support the resale of their vacation club deeds? Sorry to ramble just really torn at the moment. I have the money to do it and I have a lot of questions.There are valid reasons to go resale and to buy direct. I haven't heard any valid reasons for your situation to buy direct though. You'd be paying a huge premium for very minimal protections over the resale process. To cruise you'd not only have to pay the premium per point but also buy significantly more points. I'd suggest you guess at your trips (both Disney and otherwise) the next 10 years, look at your current family membership and make the appropriate assumptions then decide what unit size you need. Once you have an idea of unit size, length of stay and number of trips, you can easily work out roughly how many points you'll need. Take the money saved by buying resale and less points and put it away for non DVC trips. You'll be WAY ahead of most members and DVC will be a blessing for your family.