Should the military be given the names of every student in America?

[Blondie]

No child unrecruited. (http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2002/45/ma_153_01.html)

[minniecarousel]

It sounds like this is a new law, but my sons graduated from HS in '98 & 2000 and they both received military recruitment info in the mail. They were also notified to sign up for the Selective Service around their 18th birthdays. So I don't understand where the military got their info from - unless it was from their school at that time too? They've had social security numbers almost from birth, so there's another source. I don't see why they need info from the schools, since there are other sources.

[Blondie]

The schools are probably the best source for getting thorough info.

Someone started a thread a few days back about why their pediatrician's office wanted their social security numbers. Hmmm...

[tar heel]

My college freshman son was recruited, both by the local office and by the military academies. The academies, I'm sure, had gotten his name from the College Board, just like the other universities recruiting him. I hadn't given any thought to how the local recruiter got his telephone number, though. I will say that the recruiter, who called the week before he left for college, didn't really seem to have any information about him except that he had graduated in May. The recruiter asked him his SAT score and future plans, then changed gears and tried to get him interested in ROTC or reserves. This call did not seem inappropriate to me, but I would feel different if my 9th grader started getting calls now. That a recruiter even MIGHT have his name, school, address, etc., is news to me.

[Pin Wizard]

Unbelievable! The schools will actually provide a list of students with addresses and phone numbers WITHOUT PARENTAL PERMISSION! As a matter of fact, I have a friend who lost her husband just over a year ago. Recently, a recruiter called her home asking to speak to her son. She told him that she lost her husband and they weren't about to get her son!! :eek:

[Blondie]

Being the mother of two sons, I would want their decision to enlist to be soley on the purpose of them wanting to, not because they were influenced by someone calling my home.

[GEM]

We had lots of recruiters at my high school during my senior year, and that was back in '91. They came several times to talk to classes, etc. I gots lots of mail and several phone calls as well. I didn't think much about it, since it definately wasn't something I was interested in. It never occured to me to wonder how they got my information. I didnt' really care. I just ignored them like I ignored the recruiters from the universities I wasn't interested in attending.

[Planogirl]

Recruiters are up-front about their plans to use school lists to aggressively pursue students through mailings, phone calls, and personal visits -- even if parents object. "The only thing that will get us to stop contacting the family is if they call their congressman," says Major Johannes Paraan, head U.S. Army recruiter for Vermont and northeastern New York. "Or maybe if the kid died, we'll take them off our list."

Nice that if a kid died that they would MAYBE take them off the list. :rolleyes: This is amazing and a total invasion of privacy IMO.

[Bob O]

Since every one is required to enlist for the draft, i have no problem with the military being given that info and trying to recruit the best possible to serve our great country. My son who is 17 yrs old just got mail from the navy yesterday and has gotten other info from the other branches in the military.

[browneyes]

I thought they got that info from the ASVAB test (or whatever the name of it is that give to you when you're a senior). I was pestered by the Army recruitment office for a couple of years after HS after taking the test. Including being cussed out by the recruiter.:rolleyes: I thought they got my info from that test. I was 18 when I took it, so my parents didn't need to give permission. I graduated with my Associate's Degree last year and I still get things in the mail from the Navy.

No, I don't think the schools should send out private info.

[Doctor P]

Good for them! As long as young men are required to register with Selective Service, everything that can be done to ensure full and complete compliance is OK with me.

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by Blondie
Being the mother of two sons, I would want their decision to enlist to be soley on the purpose of them wanting to, not because they were influenced by someone calling my home.

That's easy enough - just tell the school not to release their information. Students have the right to have the information withheld from recruiters. The fact that many of the schools are too lazy or too incompetent to inform the students is not the fault of the recruiters.

[shortbun]

Looks like it's time to resurrect the
Canadian Underground Railroad. They'll
get my kid when they peel him from
my dead cold hands!:mad:

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by shortbun
Looks like it's time to resurrect the
Canadian Underground Railroad. They'll
get my kid when they peel him from
my dead cold hands!:mad:

That's probably good - mama's boys usually don't do so well in the military.

But back to reality here - why would you send your precious out of the country? Just tell the school to not give out his information.

It's so funny to watch people get all upset about something that can be taken care of so very easily.

[pokiemomo181]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by shortbun
Looks like it's time to resurrect the
Canadian Underground Railroad. They'll
get my kid when they peel him from
my dead cold hands!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







I really can't see where it does any harm. If they aren't interested they aren't forced to join. I have two son's in the Air Force. The oldest is going back overseas soon. I too worry about my children. When I exspressed my concern to my son, he told me" Mom if I die serving my country, and protecting my daughters then so be it." I understand how mothers feel, I am one, but if no one served to protect this country, and your children, where would we be. These wonderful people are under paid, and lay their life on the line everyday. Complaining about recuiters calling, or getting info seems really sad. Its ok for our sons and daughters to do this, but not yours. Seems unfair to me, but that is just my opinion. I thought we all were in this together, we are a free country, but there is a price we have to pay for that freedom, and it isn't cheap by any means.


Pokie

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by shortbun
Looks like it's time to resurrect the
Canadian Underground Railroad. They'll
get my kid when they peel him from
my dead cold hands!:mad:

Maybe people with your attitude should have to serve instead of their children. You benefit from the sacrifices of others. You enjoy freedom but choose not to defend it. I'm sure you you would be among the first to complain if you're freedoms were infringed upon.

Life is a give and take not a one way street. Good luck to you and yours.

[gemmie214]

I do not understand what the fuss is about. High school seniors have life choices to make. They should have all of their choices at their fingertips so they can make the choice that suits THEM. Military life is a career just like any other. It is a wonderful way for many to get a higher education that maybe would not have been able to do so for many reasons. It is a wonderful way for many to travel, learn and mature. Colleges activly seek out those they wish to attend their schools. I guess I just do not see the problem with our military doing the same. JMHO

[shortbun]

Well AFR-if we're going to resort to name calling...
I know you are but what am I? That comes directly
from my 7yo son's emotional mindset and since
that seems to be your bent tonight....:)

Eeyore2U-people with my "attitude" stopped a war
in the early 70's. My son WILL travel outside this country
someday as an ambassador to try to dispell all the horrible
things people think about it because of attitudes
like yours, NOT as a war monger to push our opinions
and ways on others but as an advocate of peace.

I made you guys mad, eh? Enjoy the next couple of
years-nothing ever lasts forever. That's what makes
this country so great!
mimi

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by shortbun
Eeyore2U-people with my "attitude" stopped a war
in the early 70's. My son WILL travel outside this country
someday as an ambassador to try to dispell all the horrible
things people think about it because of attitudes
like yours, NOT as a war monger to push our opinions
and ways on others but as an advocate of peace.

I made you guys mad, eh? Enjoy the next couple of
years-nothing ever lasts forever. That's what makes
this country so great!
mimi

mimi,

Are you referrring to the Viet Nam conflict? The conflict were 58,000 Americans died? Please tell me how people like you stopped it.

If you see people who choose not to defend our country as ambassadors of peace then maybe you need to change your glasses.

I see those that lay their life on the line and those who have lost their life defending people like you and yours as martyrs ands heroes. They defend your rights and then take the abuse you throw at them.

Enjoy the next couple of years? Pushing our opinons on others? Where and how would you expect us to defend our soil or should we just hand over the keys?

[abaldacci]

Originally posted by shortbun
Looks like it's time to resurrect the
Canadian Underground Railroad. They'll
get my kid when they peel him from
my dead cold hands!:mad:
My son will go to college not the army. I am to chicken to be in the armed services but I admire people who are. Don't judge us because we are different than you. When you get hurt aren't you glad people in the medical field are there to help. Not everyone is cut out to do that either, but I don't call people names because that is not the road they chose. Open up it takes all kinds to make a great USA.:D

[WebmasterAlex]

Before everyone gets too wound up let's remember NOBODY is talking about a draft! There isn't even close to a need. The military does need to recruit but nobody is being forced to do anything. I don't see why anybody would be so worked up about a couple of letters or calls. If your child isn't planning on going to go in the military does anyone really think this is going to change their minds?
Realize that they can get your childs name anyway. They are still required to register for the draft and that is not voluntary. Not registering within 30 days of your 18th birthday is a felony punishable by 5 years in prison and a 250,000 dollar fine.
It seems to me to be a lot better to do a lot of voluntary recruiting rather then enforce that law!

[AirForceRocks]

Excellent points Alex! And as the linked article pointed out, personal contact can be avoided by simply telling the school that you don't want your child's name and information being released.

abaldacci, I fully understand that not all people are cut out to be in the military, that's fine. But shortbun's attitude of "Hey go kill someone else's kid, mine is too precious to serve" gets me right there. NO ONE is too important in this country to not fight for freedom.

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by shortbun
Well AFR-if we're going to resort to name calling...
I know you are but what am I? That comes directly
from my 7yo son's emotional mindset and since
that seems to be your bent tonight....:)

Eeyore2U-people with my "attitude" stopped a war
in the early 70's. My son WILL travel outside this country
someday as an ambassador to try to dispell all the horrible
things people think about it because of attitudes
like yours, NOT as a war monger to push our opinions
and ways on others but as an advocate of peace.

I made you guys mad, eh? Enjoy the next couple of
years-nothing ever lasts forever. That's what makes
this country so great!
mimi

People with your "attitude" believe in doing nothing - sitting back and letting this country be destroyed. And if push comes to shove, your son's life is more precious than others' children? Sorry, but no.

And we are talking about names and phone numbers here - if you don't want the evil military recruiter calling your son, then tell the school.

[ByTheSea]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks

But shortbun's attitude of "Hey go kill someone else's kid, mine is too precious to serve" gets me right there. NO ONE is too important in this country to not fight for freedom



People with your "attitude" believe in doing nothing - sitting back and letting this country be destroyed


There are other ways to serve, honor, protect and respect this country than fighting for it. Although I would not presume to state what other people "believe" I do believe that there are many who are morally opposed to “fighting” for any reason, and hope to pass those values to their children. So you are right when you say they can ask to have their children’s names removed from the list… but that’s about all.

JMHO but don’t most parents feel their children’s lives are more precious to them than anything else? Or is that reserved only for people with a specific "attitude?"

[abaldacci]

Airforcerocks As chicken as I am I was ready to go to get them myself after 9-11, I think It is love for the child that she speak of not anything more. Take it easy. Don't work yourself up. I would die for my country and my child if need be but I would not want my child to die for me or my country and I am sure your mother feels the same way. If my son wanted to join the armed forces I would stated my concerns but that would be all. It will be his choice but you bet I will try to influence him all through life about choices and college.:D

[AirForceRocks]

There are other ways to serve, honor, protect and respect this country than fighting for it.

I agree - but I wouldn't consider running off to hide in Canada to be one of those ways - would you?

JMHO but don’t most parents feel their children’s lives are more precious to them than anything else? Or is that reserved only for people with a specific "attitude?"

Sure - but when it comes to the freedoms enjoyed by all, is my Michael's life any more precious than your son's? Or vice versa?

[AirForceRocks]

If my son wanted to join the armed forces I would stated my concerns but that would be all. It will be his choice but you bet I will try to influence him all through life about choices and college.

Offering advice and influence is quite different than the bundling the kid up and hauling him off to Canada, wouldn't you say?

[Beauty]

but I would not want my child to die for me or my country

I agree with this statement. As a mother I wouldn't want my child to die for any reason, I'm sorry but our country included. Again you can flame me all you want but I sincerely believe that innocent people die from wars and fights that crooked politicians start. Yes war is necessary, but no, every fight we are included in is not. There are places we don't need to be. Again this is my opinion. One child or for that matter one man is no more important to these people in Washington starting all this mess than another. When things like 9-11 happen, YES there is a need for fighting.....when some little country invades another little country then NO we don't need to be there. With Sadaam yes we do! I saw my father suffer with memories of Vietnam for years and years. I saw bruises on him that NEVER went away. These weren't only on the outside. Then to get critizied for even going?? I'm sorry but maybe he should have gone to Canada. He didn't have a choice about Vietnam but yet he went and served his time only to be booed by hypocritical Americans. No I don't want my son to go through anything like that. If he so chooses then yes that is his choice but you can bet your bottom dollar I will argue him into the ground against any kind of military service.

Again not name calling or fighting just stating my opinion.

[Pin Wizard]

After sending that link to a friend in the military, this was his response...

Understand that anything taken to an extreme is bad...this is a policy designed more for colleges who were receiving federal funds to stay afloat...and making a tidy profit while doing it...but after receiving federal aid were refusing either a. recruiters on campus or b. refusing to allow ROTC on campus (same with FBI, DEA, CIA). while i agree at the college level i am not sure i agree with non federally funded hs's being required to do the same. do however remember that even though this article is sensationalized because they mixed the issue of the names list with recruiting, that EVERY male and female at the age of 17 (or is 18 now) is required to register for the draft...even if we do not have a draft and have a professional military....and even if they are not interested in the military. that is not a military or political issue that is what the senators and congressmen were directed to do by an overwhelming majority of the democrats who were complaining that only the poor and uneducated had to go to the military and that forcing everyone to register for the draft..even though..again...we do not draft...would give the appearance that even the rich and privileged had to share equally in service to our country. don't blame Bush...go look for the democrats. look at the source of the article...i always look at who wrote it and what their motive is....

[JAP]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
That's probably good - mama's boys usually don't do so well in the military.

That was a little uncalled for.:o

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I do not agree with Shortbuns.

My son, when he is of age, will register for the civil services as required by law. I pray that he and many other young men and women will never have to see war. I appreciate all that our Armed Services do for our country. Without them we would continually live in fear.

I do not think we should be too up in arms about Recruiters obtaining information from our schools. Many COLLEGE recruiters do the same thing.

[Cindy B]

Hmm.. my sister is part of recruiting/personell for the Air Force. I will ask her where she gets her information from.

My sister and father are very proud military personnel. My dad over the age of 50, signed up for a another round of Air Force Reserve, right before 9-11... (2 days prior).

He couldn't wait to be up in the air refueiling in Afghanasitan. He volunteered to go...

Crazy, no! He loves to serve, and do what he feels is right. This is the same person who at age 16, yes 16, signed up to be in the Army in 1965. .. They made him wait until 1966.

He loves the military, same with my sister. She is of a different type, would work long hours, but not go away for missions.

As for the recruiters getting names and numbers, I got may similiar phone calls as well.. the Marines (HA!) was one of the more persisitant ones.

Me, a Marine.. thats pretty funny!

[WebmasterAlex]

I don't believe that anyone including the mother's of the soldier's that died in the world wars, korea, vietnam or a hundred other places "wanted" their child to die for their country.
The fact of the matter is that as a country we have to have a military.
There is no draft right now, we are talking about some advertising. Is this any worse then Coke giving bookcovers to schools or the 1000 other things that companies "donate" to get their name in front of impresionable schoolchildren?

Everyone needs to step away from the personal attacks and realize that people have very strong emotions about their children.
I don't see any reason this discussion can't continue in a civilized manner, any more personal attacks will be deleted.

[nativetxn]

After my son left for college recruiters would call our house about once a year. They explained that sometimes young people change their mind about college and drop out so they try to keep up with them and offer them the option of joining the military instead.

They only called once after he entered graduate school. They gave up then.

I believe Travis had to register with selective service when he was 18 so that is how they got his name, I'm sure.

My husband, on the other hand, was registered for the <b>draft</b> at age 18. I think there is a huge difference between the military calling my son and asking him to sign up and mandatory military service.

I suppose, since females are not required to register with selective service, this is an attempt by the military to reach them, because they will eventually have the name and information on all of the young men, won't they?

[Lucky4me]

This falls under the 'not too much I can do about it and it's not that big of a deal' category. My sons get calls every week and have since they were 17. No recruiter is going to convince them to join up if they don't want to do it.

[betz]

There are certain parameters that both private and public colleges fall into because of the funding by our tax dollars.
Yale was not going to allow recruiters on their campuses, but the government was going to pull any financial aid (i.e. our tax dollars) that Yale students received. Yale now lets recruiters on Campus. I am not to sure if private colleges have to send reports of registered students to recruitment offices on request, but I do not see why they wouldn't. Even though they are a private university they are somewhat funded by our tax dollars.
At the CC I work at we run student reports by semester that are passed on to the military recruitment offices. These reports contain basic info, name, age, addy & phone #'s. I have never had a request that a student's name be excluded and I am not to sure if I could legally exclude them.
In the 60's my cousin (female) went to Viet Nam as a peaceful protester working as a nurse with the red cross, she met her future husband whom also was a peaceful protester working as a medic in the military.

[nsyncraider17]

At my school, they've always had an announcement up for at least two weeks saying that if seniors do not want their name and personal information submitted to the military, they can speak to a counselor to have their name removed from the list. But most people don't even care. No one is being forced to join the military, and they can get our names and information from other sources if they really want to. No one has ever complained about it at all at my school. I don't understand what the big deal is.:confused:

[Bob O]

Im glad that PatricK Henry("My only regret is a have but one life to give for my country") wasnt raised by" beauty" and that the founders of this GREAT country didnt have such a short sighted mindset!!!!!
If i was in charge the draft would be mandatory for all americans!! Now the military lifstslye isnt for me so i didnt volunteeer but if drafted i wouldnt have hesitated to join and would never dodge the draft.
My son is 17 and if he decides to go into the military i would be proud that he made such a decision and i would never dissaude him or anybody from defending this great country.
The true heroes in our country arent the actors/sports stars/tv personalities/musicians etc. but the people who voluntarily join the military and by their actions we are allowed to enjoy the freedom we have today. Alot live on poverty level wages but still go to area's few of us would want and proudly serve there country and on a almost daily give their life for us, be it at wartime or peace time on training missions to keep up their skills.
The views of some on this thread disparage the actions of the true heroe's in our society-the men and women in all branches of the Armed Services IMHO!!!!!!!!

[caitycaity]

i guess i just don't see what the fuss is about.

a child is going to join the military solely because they get a phone call from the recruiter, but have no interest in it? i don't think so. :confused:

when i was a senior in college i recieved several phone calls from representative from various schools. most of them i wasn't interested in, so i just said no.

[Jenzebelle]

Chalk me up as another person that doesn't get the fuss about it.

When I was a senior in high school, I got tons of letters and phone calls from military recruiters- as did all of my friends. I just simply said "no thanks" and that was that. My sister is 18 and a senior and is currently getting the same letters and phone calls.

I don't see how it's any different from colleges sending out recruitment letters and catalogs to high school seniors. Just because the military asks if you are interested, doesn't mean you're obligated to join. Just like if the University of East Japeepee sends you a course catalog, doesn't mean you have to go there.

[AirForceRocks]

Just because the military asks if you are interested, doesn't mean you're obligated to join. Just like if the University of East Japeepee sends you a course catalog, doesn't mean you have to go there.

Damn, give me a minute to wipe the Coke off my screen!! LOL!!

[caitycaity]

where exactly is east japeepee? :p :p

[Pin Wizard]

Originally posted by nativetxn
I suppose, since females are not required to register
Females are required also! See below from a previous post...

EVERY male and female at the age of 17 (or is 18 now) is required to register for the draft...even if we do not have a draft and have a professional military....and even if they are not interested in the military.

[AirForceRocks]

Females are required also!

Females are not required to register for selective service.

http://www.sss.gov/FSwomen.htm

[caitycaity]

"EVERY male and female at the age of 17 (or is 18 now) is required to register for the draft...even if we do not have a draft and have a professional military....and even if they are not interested in the military."

no they're not. :confused: where are you getting this from?

[betz]

What? I re-upped for nothing!
Guess I can't believe everything I read on the DIS ;)

[Pin Wizard]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
Females are not required to register for selective service.
Ha! A slight slip I had there. Thanks! :)

[AirForceRocks]

No problem! :D