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View Full Version : New (to me) VGT rates


kcashner
02-14-2012, 11:22 AM
Either I've been missing them or DCL has posted new VGT/OGT/IGT rates for some cruises.

Check out March MR rates (not available March 11), and July Caribbean (I think these have been around for a while)

I think I'm happy that DD's spring break isn't available on the special rates...I need to save $ for 2013!:goodvibes

lark
02-14-2012, 12:04 PM
July 7, 21, and 28 have had VGT for a week or more, but July 14 was just added, maybe yesterday I think.

Kind of a bummer -- I was hopping for July 14, but jumped at July 7 a couple of days ago.

I think they pretty clearly overpriced these cruises and maybe are facing some competition from Oasis/Allure. Maybe the Costa situation added some pricing stress. I don't think having to discount your peak month on your brand new ship outside of the final payment date for those already reserved is an ideal business model or desire. Pretty weird.

I think to some extent disney is also finding itself in a position where it's competing with itself for summer cruises. It's going to have three vessels in the Bahamas/Caribbean this summer. Plus, Fantasy's ports of call are really nothing to write home about. A five-day cruise on the Dream gets you two Castaway Cay days, which is better than any place Fantasy stops. Asking people to pay $1500 more for a party of two on a similar ship just for two more sea days perhaps is just not working so well.

mcmckuf
02-14-2012, 02:39 PM
I have to ask (and couldn't find this in the abbreviation guide) what is VGT and how do you find those rates?

Thanks!

kcashner
02-14-2012, 03:17 PM
I have to ask (and couldn't find this in the abbreviation guide) what is VGT and how do you find those rates?

Thanks!

VGT is a special restricted fare. The abbreviation stands for something like Verandah guarantee. They also have OGT and IGT for oceanview and inside. The fares carry some restrictions--you have to pay in full at the time of booking, no changes are allowed, etc. In exchange for the restrictions, you can save thousands of dollars off the next lowest fares.

IF they are available for the dates you are checking, they will show up on the DCL site as the lowest rate available for that date or cabin type--they are the first thing that will pop up. I find them by letting my TA tell me...:goodvibes

OK, so you understand, a VGT booking means that DCL can place you in any verandah cabin on the ship that holds the number of people you have--you have NO choice in category or location; only that the cabin will have a verandah. It can be a solid wall, obstructed view, etc....or it can be a supersized! It's a matter of chance.

Alexander
02-14-2012, 03:41 PM
I don't see these VGT cabins being a great rate. It almost seems to my skeptical self that by offering these no-refund, no-change, etc. rates they are getting people locked in and fully paid with no way out to ensure there are plenty of sold cabins. Anyone booking these can do NOTHING with the reservation so DCL has their money no matter what. Maybe they have a big payment due to the shipyard?:lmao:

So Cal Crew
02-14-2012, 03:44 PM
We're not VGT but they just repriced the EBPC this December and we saved almost $1400. :banana:

clukas
02-14-2012, 03:54 PM
There are the IGT/OGT/VCGT rates for April 14 and 21 sailings of the Fantasy. These will be the 3rd and 4h sailings.........I guess sales weren't that great.

lbgraves
02-14-2012, 04:16 PM
Those prices are much higher than the opening day prices. DCL is making people think that they are getting a deal by having them show up as these special rates. They are lower than the prices rose to, but still high.

NancyIL
02-14-2012, 04:38 PM
Those prices are much higher than the opening day prices. DCL is making people think that they are getting a deal by having them show up as these special rates. They are lower than the prices rose to, but still high.

An inside guarantee (IGT) on the April 21 Fantasy is $1001 pp + taxes, whereas an 11C is $1589 pp + taxes. Why anyone would pay almost $600 pp more at this point (after the penalty date) for a specific 11C vs. the gty cabin is beyond me. The lowest 2012 Fantasy prices started at $959 pp, so the IGT at $1001 is a pretty good deal.

NancyIL
02-14-2012, 04:43 PM
By the way - the three September 2012 5-night Canada cruises from NY on the Magic are STILL at their starting price of $715 pp + taxes for an 11C. Betcha there will be a GREAT deal on those down the road! I moved my dummy booking from the Sept. 12 Canada cruise to something in 2013, but I could be tempted if prices drop enough.

kcashner
02-14-2012, 04:57 PM
I don't see these VGT cabins being a great rate. It almost seems to my skeptical self that by offering these no-refund, no-change, etc. rates they are getting people locked in and fully paid with no way out to ensure there are plenty of sold cabins. Anyone booking these can do NOTHING with the reservation so DCL has their money no matter what. Maybe they have a big payment due to the shipyard?:lmao:

True, these are higher than opening day rates...but no one can get opening day rates NOW for these cruises. They are normally offered much closer to the sailing date--for instance, seeing them for March and April doesn't surprise me at all. Why they are available for July????? Your guess is as good as mine. Obviously they are willing to lower rates to try to fill the ship.

Yes, these fares should be used with caution. If they suit your needs, great. If not, pass on them!:goodvibes

runwad
02-14-2012, 05:03 PM
I wish the June cruises would drop. We had to cancel our June cruise for a family wedding and rebook for July '13. Sure would like to get on one of the later June cruises this year but it's too much money for our family of 5 as prices are now.

mkmommy
02-14-2012, 05:34 PM
I don't see these VGT cabins being a great rate. It almost seems to my skeptical self that by offering these no-refund, no-change, etc. rates they are getting people locked in and fully paid with no way out to ensure there are plenty of sold cabins. Anyone booking these can do NOTHING with the reservation so DCL has their money no matter what. Maybe they have a big payment due to the shipyard?:lmao:


That's what I was thinking . A friend worked for an airline and she said when an airline has a sale, many times it is around the time when big lease payments are due.

Smart move on DCL's part, I am sure cancellations are higher than normal and this locks people in and puts some cash on the balance sheet . I am sure they had some big cash expenditures recently.

DisneyDream2B
02-14-2012, 06:16 PM
Does anyone know if you can get credit on a future DCL cruise, if you cancel a guarantee room cruise booking, after having purchased DCL insurance along with the guarantee cabin?

lark
02-14-2012, 07:29 PM
Opening day prices for an 11C for 2A 2C was $5514 for July 2012 Fantasy sailings. IGT prices released this week for 2A 2C are $4766. (Compare also to opening day prices for July 2013, which were around $6k for inside.) So I'm not sure where the notion that these are worse than opening day prices is coming from. There is not much data preserved on disboards for opening day pricing on verandah, but it looks like high $7k for cat 4, and VGT is about $6700.

But I agree with other posters who note that whatever opening day prices, the question is what are prices now. Most of the bookings are made after opening day. The thing that's significant about releasing these rates now, outside the final payment window, is that people who have booked at higher rates can cancel without penalty and rebook at these cheaper rates. When they do, disney doesn't even sell a new cabin. We were booked for two inside cabins. For $300 less, we booked a verandah and an inside. Opening day pricing is irrelevant to me, because my pricing was set. By releasing these outside the final payment date, disney gave me a massive upgrade and saved me $300. The cost to me is less flexibility on cancelation.

lark
02-14-2012, 07:37 PM
That's what I was thinking . A friend worked for an airline and she said when an airline has a sale, many times it is around the time when big lease payments are due.

Smart move on DCL's part, I am sure cancellations are higher than normal and this locks people in and puts some cash on the balance sheet . I am sure they had some big cash expenditures recently.

I don't buy this. DCL does not seem to operate this way. They are not cash poor. They wouldn't sacrifice long-term profit for cash, particularly given how low the cost of money is right now.

I really don't think this is complicated. Cabins were not selling well, so they dropped prices. They heavily restrict them to try to avoid a situation where those already booked at higher prices won't abandon their reservations and rebook. But doing this outside the final payment window is pretty telling.

Given that they accompanied these GT rates with a bulletin to TAs, or some TAs, it seems to have worked. Most of the July GT rates already are gone.

rossjen2
02-14-2012, 08:19 PM
Too bad the 2013 med rates didnt drop :sad1:

NancyIL
02-14-2012, 08:20 PM
Too bad the 2013 med rates didnt drop :sad1:

Those came out less than a month ago. The Fantasy and Dream cruises have been available to book since last October.

rossjen2
02-14-2012, 08:52 PM
But i was hoping with carnivals big announcement of basically identical 12-nt trips and princesses similar announcement, they might have lowered a little.

mkmommy
02-14-2012, 09:28 PM
But i was hoping with carnivals big announcement of basically identical 12-nt trips and princesses similar announcement, they might have lowered a little.

What are the Carnival rates like?

NancyIL
02-14-2012, 10:18 PM
But i was hoping with carnivals big announcement of basically identical 12-nt trips and princesses similar announcement, they might have lowered a little.

What other cruise lines charge in Europe doesn't have that much of an effect on DCL's prices. Princess has 16 ships, and 7 of them will be in Europe this summer (2012). Royal Caribbean has 22 ships, and 11 of them will be in Europe this summer. Carnival is the largest cruise line, but they'll have only 2 ships in Europe.

kcashner
02-14-2012, 10:26 PM
What other cruise lines charge in Europe doesn't have that much of an effect on DCL's prices. Princess has 16 ships, and 7 of them will be in Europe this summer (2012). Royal Caribbean has 22 ships, and 11 of them will be in Europe this summer. Carnival is the largest cruise line, but they'll have only 2 ships in Europe.

Well, if you look at Carnival as the "master company" rather than just the ships that cruise under the Carnival name, they will have many ships in Europe. They are just cruising under names of various subsidiaries so unsuspecting cruisers don't realize that they are really part of Carnival!

NancyIL
02-14-2012, 10:34 PM
Well, if you look at Carnival as the "master company" rather than just the ships that cruise under the Carnival name, they will have many ships in Europe. They are just cruising under names of various subsidiaries so unsuspecting cruisers don't realize that they are really part of Carnival!

Although Princess and Carnival (among others) are owned by the Carnival Corporation, they operate pretty independently from one another. There is no reciprocity of loyalty benefits from one cruise line to another under the Carnival umbrella as there is between Royal Caribbean and Celebrity. I am a Diamond Crown & Anchor member on RCI, so I'll get Elite benefits when I sail with Celebrity. However, my status on Princess means nothing when I cruise on HAL.

Alexander
02-15-2012, 05:40 AM
I don't buy this. DCL does not seem to operate this way. They are not cash poor. They wouldn't sacrifice long-term profit for cash, particularly given how low the cost of money is right now.

I really don't think this is complicated. Cabins were not selling well, so they dropped prices. They heavily restrict them to try to avoid a situation where those already booked at higher prices won't abandon their reservations and rebook. But doing this outside the final payment window is pretty telling.

Given that they accompanied these GT rates with a bulletin to TAs, or some TAs, it seems to have worked. Most of the July GT rates already are gone.

And how do you think Disney became so non cash poor? They are a business and the bottom line is always the bottom line. They are out to make money and how they do it is by securing guest's money. By offering these IGT/OGT/VGT they are guaranteed their money even if you change your mind.

Raspberry Beret
02-15-2012, 08:28 AM
Well, if you look at Carnival as the "master company" rather than just the ships that cruise under the Carnival name, they will have many ships in Europe. They are just cruising under names of various subsidiaries so unsuspecting cruisers don't realize that they are really part of Carnival!

LOL! It's no big secret that Carnival Corp owns a bunch of other cruise lines. Not sure why you're trying to make it seem like they are trying to "pull the wool over their customers eyes". :confused: Each is run as separate company, with it's own CEO and Corp headquarters. Very similar to Disney and all of the various companies under their corporate umbrella.

lark
02-15-2012, 09:55 AM
And how do you think Disney became so non cash poor? They are a business and the bottom line is always the bottom line. They are out to make money and how they do it is by securing guest's money. By offering these IGT/OGT/VGT they are guaranteed their money even if you change your mind.

You responded to me, but your response isn't really to what I was saying. My point was that it was unlikely that DCL put out July GT rates as a cash grab to improve Q1 balance sheets.

As to the other point about breakage, though, I don't really agree with that either. Breakage is very light in the cruise industry. The place where disney makes money is on the cancellations at 15 to 75 days out, because people will cancel those cruises sufficiently in advance to get some portion of their money back to permit disney to resell the room -- although often that's a tough sell. But at least they can use the extra inventory to try to sell upgrades.

There is, however, virtually no breakage on cancellations inside 15 days or on VGT/OGT/IGT rates. If the person has DCL insurance and can get credit, then perhaps disney can recoup something. Not usually. A cancelled VGT room though isn't much of an option -- it usually will just be a no show, because you don't get anything from cancelling. If the ship doesn't sail full, it's found money. But disney is surely aspiring to sail full on its brand new ship in July. A no-show on a VGT gives DCL about 15 minutes to try to sell the room, which of course doesn't happen. The best they can do with it is hope to upsell it on a waiting list. There are incremental savings in the sense that they don't have to give you food or clean your towels. Also, those booking VGT rates know the drill and my suspicion is that virtually all of them sail. The breakage associated with these rates is extraordinarily modest -- nothing like the breakage cruise lines enjoy (which is also modest) for the inside 45-day but outside 30-day cancellations. Those are the ones they want.

The premise that disney wants to release these fares and somehow they are beneficial is weird. Deeply cut discounts outside the final payment window are acts of desperation. When they are on your new flagship vessel in your peak charging month, it's noteworthy. Carnival uses these kind of fares as a business model, but they have 5x the number of cabins to fill and don't sail full like DCL does (or, at least, aspires to). Disney overpriced Fantasy for the summer. They know that with the holidays over, summer plans are being finalized. They dropped fares to sell cabins. It's interesting to me that Fantasy for summer 2013 is even higher than this year's opening day prices, by as much as 10 percent. It will be interesting to track what happens with those cabins, although I think the fact that disney has 3 ships in the bahamas/caribbean this year but only 2 next will help. It's telling to me, though, that many Fantasy cabins for summer 2013 are still at, or barely a few dollars over, OD pricing. These cabins have been on sale for a long time.

Alexander
02-15-2012, 01:56 PM
I don't see these VGT cabins being a great rate. It almost seems to my skeptical self that by offering these no-refund, no-change, etc. rates they are getting people locked in and fully paid with no way out to ensure there are plenty of sold cabins. Anyone booking these can do NOTHING with the reservation so DCL has their money no matter what. Maybe they have a big payment due to the shipyard?:lmao:

You responded to me, but your response isn't really to what I was saying. My point was that it was unlikely that DCL put out July GT rates as a cash grab to improve Q1 balance sheets.

As to the other point about breakage, though, I don't really agree with that either. Breakage is very light in the cruise industry. The place where disney makes money is on the cancellations at 15 to 75 days out, because people will cancel those cruises sufficiently in advance to get some portion of their money back to permit disney to resell the room -- although often that's a tough sell. But at least they can use the extra inventory to try to sell upgrades.

There is, however, virtually no breakage on cancellations inside 15 days or on VGT/OGT/IGT rates. If the person has DCL insurance and can get credit, then perhaps disney can recoup something. Not usually. A cancelled VGT room though isn't much of an option -- it usually will just be a no show, because you don't get anything from cancelling. If the ship doesn't sail full, it's found money. But disney is surely aspiring to sail full on its brand new ship in July. A no-show on a VGT gives DCL about 15 minutes to try to sell the room, which of course doesn't happen. The best they can do with it is hope to upsell it on a waiting list. There are incremental savings in the sense that they don't have to give you food or clean your towels. Also, those booking VGT rates know the drill and my suspicion is that virtually all of them sail. The breakage associated with these rates is extraordinarily modest -- nothing like the breakage cruise lines enjoy (which is also modest) for the inside 45-day but outside 30-day cancellations. Those are the ones they want.

The premise that disney wants to release these fares and somehow they are beneficial is weird. Deeply cut discounts outside the final payment window are acts of desperation. When they are on your new flagship vessel in your peak charging month, it's noteworthy. Carnival uses these kind of fares as a business model, but they have 5x the number of cabins to fill and don't sail full like DCL does (or, at least, aspires to). Disney overpriced Fantasy for the summer. They know that with the holidays over, summer plans are being finalized. They dropped fares to sell cabins. It's interesting to me that Fantasy for summer 2013 is even higher than this year's opening day prices, by as much as 10 percent. It will be interesting to track what happens with those cabins, although I think the fact that disney has 3 ships in the bahamas/caribbean this year but only 2 next will help. It's telling to me, though, that many Fantasy cabins for summer 2013 are still at, or barely a few dollars over, OD pricing. These cabins have been on sale for a long time.

Do you see the little LMAO guy in my first post? This was all spoken tongue in cheek! Frankly, I could care a less why they offered the rates for July! You went and got way too serious on me!

lark
02-15-2012, 02:35 PM
Do you see the little LMAO guy in my first post? This was all spoken tongue in cheek! Frankly, I could care a less why they offered the rates for July! You went and got way too serious on me!

It wasn't really supposed to be a response to anyone in particular -- sorry about that. I was more just interested in the subject and wanted to talk about it and used your post as the starting point.

I think it's kind of interesting that DCL is finding more capacity than they'd like to see in their routes that compete with Oasis/Allure. Just a little thing to keep our eyes on when they announce 2014 Fantasy routes. Selling GT rates for July already suggests we might see Fantasy in other places.