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Free4Life11
01-27-2012, 06:20 PM
Thanks to the Great Recession, poverty in America has increased in recent years. So what are the best ways to avoid falling into poverty? The Brookings Institution has spent a great deal of effort studying this issue. Brookings whittled down a lot of analysis into three simple rules. You can avoid poverty by:
1. Graduating from high school.
2. Waiting to get married until after 21 and do not have children till after being married.
3. Having a full-time job.

If you do all those three things, your chance of falling into poverty is just 2 percent. Meanwhile, you’ll have a 74 percent chance of being in the middle class.

What do you think?

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/editorials/2012-01-27/story/three-rules-staying-out-poverty

runwad
01-27-2012, 06:29 PM
I think it sounds like good old common sense:thumbsup2

Muushka
01-27-2012, 07:08 PM
Sounds like a winner to me.

Not sure why everyone doesn't do it that way.

Teresa Pitman
01-27-2012, 07:15 PM
Well - for some people it's just not that easy.

Graduating from high school is not too hard for some, almost impossible for others. Some kids are living in incredibly chaotic and dysfunctional households, where there is nowhere to study (and they can't go somewhere else because they are looking after younger siblings while their parents are working), nobody to wake them up for school in the morning, nobody to make sure they get nutritious meals. They may have learning disabilities (or brain damage caused by the drugs/alcohol their mothers used during the pregnancy) so that school is very tough for them, and their school may not do much to help. They may have to work long hours because the family needs the income.

And, sure, having a full-time job (ideally with good benefits) is the goal of many people, but for some it's a tough goal to achieve. There are many reasons why people don't get hired and not all of them are things the person can change.

My tips for not being poor would be: be born into a middle-class or wealthy family, with caring parents, who can give you a good start in life.

Teresa

Muushka
01-27-2012, 07:24 PM
I had nobody to wake me up to go to school. And yet, I got up every morning and made it to school.

I won't get into the type of food we ate, but leave it at pre-food stamp times.

Brought up in poverty, yet managed to graduate from HS, not get pregnant and went to college. Imagine that.

nsmith
01-27-2012, 07:29 PM
I would add that if you are in poverty and trying to get out
cells phones,
cable tv
cigarettes
pets
are wants and not needs.

eliza61
01-27-2012, 07:35 PM
Well - for some people it's just not that easy.

Graduating from high school is not too hard for some, almost impossible for others. Some kids are living in incredibly chaotic and dysfunctional households, where there is nowhere to study (and they can't go somewhere else because they are looking after younger siblings while their parents are working), nobody to wake them up for school in the morning, nobody to make sure they get nutritious meals. They may have learning disabilities (or brain damage caused by the drugs/alcohol their mothers used during the pregnancy) so that school is very tough for them, and their school may not do much to help. They may have to work long hours because the family needs the income.

And, sure, having a full-time job (ideally with good benefits) is the goal of many people, but for some it's a tough goal to achieve. There are many reasons why people don't get hired and not all of them are things the person can change.

My tips for not being poor would be: be born into a middle-class or wealthy family, with caring parents, who can give you a good start in life.

Teresa

Nah, I don't think its that easy.

So, my pal Muushka will probably tell you I am usually a bit left of center and for all the work I do working with the poor, the bottom line is that number one is ALL important.

Now I totally agree that my parents wealth exposed me to opportunities and my wealth will probably keep my sons out of poverty also but growing up there was absolutely no other mantra like you must finish school and my sons life would have seriously ended had they not finished h.s. some things simply are non negotiable.

So I think what we have to do is find ways to assist (and no that does not always mean some type of "entitlement" issues) the kids who maybe don't get the support from home.

The pregnancy thing simply ticks me off, probably because at no other time in the history of man has preventing a pregnancy been easier. No one has to have a child they do not want.

I'm going to leave now because these threads always, always turn into rants about how the "poor" are really just lazy slobs living off of me and I had to walk 52 miles in the snow to get to school so everyone else should also.

sam_gordon
01-27-2012, 07:37 PM
Well - for some people it's just not that easy.

Graduating from high school is not too hard for some, almost impossible for others. Some kids are living in incredibly chaotic and dysfunctional households, where there is nowhere to study (and they can't go somewhere else because they are looking after younger siblings while their parents are working), nobody to wake them up for school in the morning, nobody to make sure they get nutritious meals. They may have learning disabilities (or brain damage caused by the drugs/alcohol their mothers used during the pregnancy) so that school is very tough for them, and their school may not do much to help. They may have to work long hours because the family needs the income.

And, sure, having a full-time job (ideally with good benefits) is the goal of many people, but for some it's a tough goal to achieve. There are many reasons why people don't get hired and not all of them are things the person can change.

My tips for not being poor would be: be born into a middle-class or wealthy family, with caring parents, who can give you a good start in life.

Teresa
And of your tips... people have a choice in ANY of that?

Yes, life is tough for some folks. But that doesn't mean they can't succeed. There are plenty of stories of people who had to support families through high school or didn't have a place to study and somehow graduated.

Part of that is the DESIRE to want to succeed and the WILLPOWER to follow through.

Mkebound
01-27-2012, 07:47 PM
I'd like to add a 4th tip: Spend less than you earn (this works for people no matter how much or little you make)

Teresa Pitman
01-27-2012, 08:03 PM
And of your tips... people have a choice in ANY of that?

Yes, life is tough for some folks. But that doesn't mean they can't succeed. There are plenty of stories of people who had to support families through high school or didn't have a place to study and somehow graduated.

Part of that is the DESIRE to want to succeed and the WILLPOWER to follow through.

Well, that was my point. Many things that people have no choice in have a huge effect on whether or not they succeed.

The initial poster was talking about statistics - that if you have these three things, you are statistically more likely not to be poor. Still, some people with those things in their favour ARE poor. And yes, some people from very tough backgrounds will succeed. Statistically, though, they are not likely to.

What gives someone the desire to succeed? Some of that is believing that success is possible. Sometimes it just takes one person -a teacher, a grandmother, to spark that belief. But some kids never get that one person. Some only ever hear that they are bad, stupid, doomed to failure.

What gives someone willpower? Have you seen that "marshmallow" study? They give young kids one marshmallow, then tell the children that if they wait ten minutes without eating it, they'll get TWO marshmallows. Some kids can do it (and the study showed they are more likely to succeed), but some can't. They don't have the willpower. Why not? Well, one factor is trust. If adults in the past have repeatedly made them promises, and then not kept them, the child learns to grab what he can get now. He eats the marshmallow that's in his hand, because he's learned that if he waits ten minutes, he's likely to get no marshmallows at all. That's a very difficult lesson to unlearn, because it becomes a way of seeing the world.

Life is more complex than "just have desire and willpower."

Teresa

tavettava
01-27-2012, 08:06 PM
I never had anyone ever wake me up for school either. My parents were 16 and 17 when I was born. We lived it whats called shacktown here in my city. They partied all the time never caring whether my younger sister or myself had food or clothing. I took care of my sister, even babysitting so that we could eat. I never was able to study because I had to take care of the house and had to make money to feed us. I never had the supplies for school I needed. I made sure both my sister and I graduated. We both went to college. I am a teacher, and she is in the medical field. So I think it's bs that not every person can succeed because of how they were brought up.

Muushka
01-27-2012, 08:12 PM
Well, that was my point. Many things that people have no choice in have a huge effect on whether or not they succeed.

The initial poster was talking about statistics - that if you have these three things, you are statistically more likely not to be poor. Still, some people with those things in their favour ARE poor. And yes, some people from very tough backgrounds will succeed. Statistically, though, they are not likely to.

What gives someone the desire to succeed? Some of that is believing that success is possible. Sometimes it just takes one person -a teacher, a grandmother, to spark that belief. But some kids never get that one person. Some only ever hear that they are bad, stupid, doomed to failure.

What gives someone willpower? Have you seen that "marshmallow" study? They give young kids one marshmallow, then tell the children that if they wait ten minutes without eating it, they'll get TWO marshmallows. Some kids can do it (and the study showed they are more likely to succeed), but some can't. They don't have the willpower. Why not? Well, one factor is trust. If adults in the past have repeatedly made them promises, and then not kept them, the child learns to grab what he can get now. He eats the marshmallow that's in his hand, because he's learned that if he waits ten minutes, he's likely to get no marshmallows at all. That's a very difficult lesson to unlearn, because it becomes a way of seeing the world.

Life is more complex than "just have desire and willpower."

Teresa

Your post and Eliza's post have made me think.

What if I had been involved in some sort of community project for poor kiddos?

If I had someone giving me things that I had not earned?

Someone telling me that my situation was out of my control?

That perhaps there would be some sort of program to help me?

Would I have still succeeded in life?

Or by actually living in poverty, experiencing it and all the yuck that came with it?
Was that the better teacher?

Muushka
01-27-2012, 08:17 PM
I never had anyone ever wake me up for school either. My parents were 16 and 17 when I was born. We lived it whats called shacktown here in my city. They partied all the time never caring whether my younger sister or myself had food or clothing. I took care of my sister, even babysitting so that we could eat. I never was able to study because I had to take care of the house and had to make money to feed us. I never had the supplies for school I needed. I made sure both my sister and I graduated. We both went to college. I am a teacher, and she is in the medical field. So I think it's bs that not every person can succeed because of how they were brought up.

Wow. Powerful post. Makes it hard to have a lot of sympathy, doesn't it?

leebee
01-27-2012, 08:22 PM
Your post and Eliza's post have made me think.

What if I had been involved in some sort of community project for poor kiddos?

If I had someone giving me things that I had not earned?

Someone telling me that my situation was out of my control?

That perhaps there would be some sort of program to help me?

Would I have still succeeded in life?

Or by actually living in poverty, experiencing it and all the yuck that came with it?
Was that the better teacher?


Looks like eliza61 hit the nail on the head. :rolleyes1 popcorn::

eliza61
01-27-2012, 08:23 PM
Your post and Eliza's post have made me think.

What if I had been involved in some sort of community project for poor kiddos?

If I had someone giving me things that I had not earned?

Someone telling me that my situation was out of my control?

That perhaps there would be some sort of program to help me?

Would I have still succeeded in life?

Or by actually living in poverty, experiencing it and all the yuck that came with it?
Was that the better teacher?

I struggle with that also Muushka especially with my sons.
I will absolutely never ever lie and say a wealthy background did not give me advantages. I knew from day one I was going to college and I knew I would not have to pay a dime to do it. I'd like to think I was appreciative of it and my parents also instilled a hard work ethic. I knew that if I fooled around and screwed up my pop had no problem yanking the proverbial goose that lays the golden egg. Yet I also did not worry about gunshots in my Harlem apartment that was bigger than most houses. I went to private catholic schools, so can I turn around and say a kid from the South Bronx had the same opportunity? No, I don't think I can. So for me, it's not hard for me to have sympathy. I can't imagine having to dodge gunshots to get to your school. Let me turn it around, would I have been as successful as I am now if I was born in poverty exposed to the daily violence that I see in the kids I work with? I know folks here always say that the people they know on welfare are living in mcmansion and going to disneyworld but the clients home I visit, let me tell you the best description of them are hovels.
Would I have exceeded living like that?

I also am very aware of the fact that my wealth still brings me advantages. You know Sid the squid (honorable son # 1) is an Asperger kid. I know the advantages I had getting him the best care in this country. I read peoples stories of fights they have had with the public education getting help for their learning disable kids and I thank the Lord that I did not have to deal with that. like other so famously in the news I make well into the 6 figures and because of the current tax system, I routinely pay 12-15% income tax. I have never and probably will never pay any where near 30%.

I like to think that I teach my sons strong work ethics but Rizzo is now doing his college search, never once did he have to think about cost. He does have to worry about me wringing his neck if he fools around but is his life easier because he doesn't worry about his next meal, or graduating with tons of college debt. I've told you about our cross country college searches. He does know that his choices are only limited by his grades. Have I done the right thing by giving him those opportunities?

I try to make him understands the sacrifices others have made on his behalf and what we expect from him.

ilovemk76
01-27-2012, 08:32 PM
What do you think?

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/editorials/2012-01-27/story/three-rules-staying-out-poverty

A few years ago the three rules were:

1) Graduate high school.
2) Wait to have kids until you are 30.
3) Never quit a job unless it is for a better job.

rnorwo1
01-27-2012, 09:55 PM
I never had anyone ever wake me up for school either. My parents were 16 and 17 when I was born. We lived it whats called shacktown here in my city. They partied all the time never caring whether my younger sister or myself had food or clothing. I took care of my sister, even babysitting so that we could eat. I never was able to study because I had to take care of the house and had to make money to feed us. I never had the supplies for school I needed. I made sure both my sister and I graduated. We both went to college. I am a teacher, and she is in the medical field. So I think it's bs that not every person can succeed because of how they were brought up.

Teresa has it right (sounds like we may be in similar fields professionally??)

Statistics only tell you the probability of something happening, not whether or not it will certainly happen. So if we look at the variable "the consistent presence of a caregiver waking a child up to go to school" and see that there is a correlation between that and poverty level, then all we "know" is that some people (or type of people) who were represented by that study's sample will be more likely to avoid poverty if they had this type of caregiving. That is very different than saying that everyone who does not have a caregiver to wake them for school will necessarily be doomed to live in poverty.

The fact that you were able to "beat the odds" is a great example of this. The original study (and I'm using that term loosely... I didn't read the study so am not sure of the validity of it) is listing what we call risk factors for poverty. Risk factors are very different than causative factors. Just because a study demonstrates a relationship between these factors and poverty does not mean that one causes the other, but rather that they are related in some way.

In social sciences it is often very difficult to rule out confounding factors, so always interpret such statements very critically. The way that these three factors are listed make it seem as if a person can just simply do these three things, and then they will have really great odds of avoiding poverty, while the truth about poverty is that it is incredibly complicated and there are no simple solutions. So much of what each of the pps' have said can be correct, but it's just that each piece of knowledge and experience is a small part of the puzzle or perhaps only applies to certain people. In other words, each person's story, successful or not, is anecdotal evidence which neither confirms nor disproves any statistical conclusions drawn from these types of studies.

What we do "know", from decades of research (and what Teresa was pointing out) is that there is not one path to avoid poverty nor one particular risk factor or set of factors that will guarantee poverty, but rather it is the additive effect of risk factors that increases one's chances of being impoverished. So, as we can see from tavettava's story, growing up in poverty without sensitive, responsive parents does not necessarily mean a person will never escape it, but we have countless studies that demonstrate that it will be much harder for most people to do so. And we also "know" that the opposite is true also... a child can have numerous risk factors (poverty, poor schools, live in a violent neighborhood, etc) but can be protected from all of these things by having a secure-enough relationship with a sensitive, responsive caregiver who instills trust and confidence into the child.

So how did tavettava escape it and do so well? I don't know, of course, but there had to have been some sort of protective factor(s) present to counteract these risk factors... perhaps she/he is cognitively above average or gifted, was naturally resillient, had a caring teacher or neighbor or someone to instill a sense of trust and self-confidence in her, etc... there was some reason, whether it was her natural abilities or something in her environment/opportunities, that assisted her.

Think of a child who experiences any one of these risk factors: growing up in poverty, being prenatally exposed to alcohol or drugs, growing up with a mother always passed out from substances, experiencing abuse or neglect, not receiving (for one reason or another) an education, being raped/sexually abused, having cognitive limitations due to prenatal exposure or neglect, etc... There is no way to say which one of these horrible things will lead to poverty, but they are ALL, among other variables, risk factors for poverty (and other things, such as mental illness... hey, another risk factor for poverty that hard work can't easily overcome!) Add chronicity to any of these variables and it becomes more likely that the child will always be impoverished. Add several of these risk factors together and it becomes even more likely. Take away protective factors and it becomes even more likely.

Is it possible that a child can be raised with all of these factors and still escape it? Yep. But it's not as likely. And that is why, for many people, these three rules may as well be a thousand, because they are just out of reach for some eople.

And in anticipation of responses protesting hand outs and other bail-out type programs, I, and any other person very familiar with the complicated dynamics of poverty, will agree that that is not the way to end poverty. But neither is the philosophy of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, because some people just aren't born with boots.

reginaastralis
01-27-2012, 10:03 PM
I think this is interesting, but not necessarily the norm.

I wasn't born "well off" at all. My parents worked their butts off for what they had. My mom came from nothing. Now, with the upbringing I had, when it came time for school, I bailed. I hated it.

ETA: I mean college, I did great in high school, but couldn't get my head out of a certain orifice to finish college.

I've done two of the "wrong" things on this list. I had a baby right at 21, without being married, and without having finished school. With that being said, she was definitely the wake up call my mom wished I would have had years before. However, she awoke the drive I needed to get my ish straight. I've never been in poverty, not in the least. And when I think about what I don't have, and it's not a lot, I think about how badly I could have it. I think I'm darn lucky to be where I am.

Now that I'm in school, paying for myself, I know what I want. Sometimes I think more kids in my generation just needed a swift kick in the butt to get this stuff accomplished.

I think #4 should be the desire to actually do something to change your life, because mommy and daddy aren't going to be there to support you forever.

Jedimom
01-28-2012, 07:08 AM
Eh, I did all of those things right and still landed into poverty. Graduated high school. Heck, I graduated from college. Full time job. Married at 25. Ran a business with my husband. Then had kids. I did it all "right."

For me, it was divorce which landed me in poverty. Despite so many rules and supposed repercussions in place, an amazing number of parents don't pay their court ordered child support, and even more amazing the court doesn't do much about it. /end rant on that subject

Just saying...there are tons of reasons people find themselves broke, homeless, whatnot. Doing it all "right" doesn't prevent life from happening and mucking up the best of plans.

Swan4Me
01-28-2012, 07:16 AM
I struggle with that also Muushka especially with my sons.
I will absolutely never ever lie and say a wealthy background did not give me advantages.

I knew from day one I was going to college and I knew I would not have to pay a dime to do it.
I'd like to think I was appreciative of it and my parents also instilled a hard work ethic. I knew that if I fooled around and screwed up my pop had no problem yanking the proverbial goose that lays the golden egg..

I am always fascinated by those wealthy DISers who hang out on the budget board:)

But if you didnt have to pay a dime for college-why did you end up with student loans?

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=43404086&postcount=13

RitaE
01-28-2012, 07:20 AM
Eh, I did all of those things right and still landed into poverty. Graduated high school. Heck, I graduated from college. Full time job. Married at 25. Ran a business with my husband. Then had kids. I did it all "right."

For me, it was divorce which landed me in poverty. Despite so many rules and supposed repercussions in place, an amazing number of parents don't pay their court ordered child support, and even more amazing the court doesn't do much about it. /end rant on that subject

Just saying...there are tons of reasons people find themselves broke, homeless, whatnot. Doing it all "right" doesn't prevent life from happening and mucking up the best of plans.

Actually you are right. Most financial articles of that nature will also mention that those who never divorce are much more likely to retain wealth.

Just like the other factors, that doesn't mean that somebody should never get divorced or that it is "easy" to get married and stay married. These things are not always meant to be value judgements, they are just statistical facts.

A person who

graduates High School
delays having children until a job/career is established
delays marriage until a job/career is established
and never divorces
is statistically much more likely not to live in poverty.

It's like saying those with college degrees makes millions more than those with high school degrees. Not everybody with a college degree will make millions more and plenty with only high school degrees earn bucket loads of money. It is just speaking on general terms.

RitaE
01-28-2012, 07:30 AM
I am always fascinated by those wealthy DISers who hang out on the budget board:)

But if you didnt have to pay a dime for college-why did you end up with student loans?

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=43404086&postcount=13

oops

lisaross
01-28-2012, 07:32 AM
Thats a good place to Start, but i would say today u need College and also - thats great if u get out of school and get a job, what happens when u loose a job like so many americans today who are educated with a family and can't get a job???

What do you think?

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/editorials/2012-01-27/story/three-rules-staying-out-poverty

Mrs. Sojourner
01-28-2012, 07:33 AM
I'd like to add a 4th tip: Spend less than you earn (this works for people no matter how much or little you make) :thumbsup2 I would make this first on the list!

In reality the poorest person in the U.S. is rich, and has many, many more opportunies compared to the the average person in a 3rd word country (which is a huge majority of the world). It's a bit disconcerting to live in an area of the world where people are litterally dying of starvation and from curable illnesses and hearing about "poverty" in the U.S. I think our Western wordview is a tad askew.

SunnieRN
01-28-2012, 07:35 AM
I never had anyone ever wake me up for school either. My parents were 16 and 17 when I was born. We lived it whats called shacktown here in my city. They partied all the time never caring whether my younger sister or myself had food or clothing. I took care of my sister, even babysitting so that we could eat. I never was able to study because I had to take care of the house and had to make money to feed us. I never had the supplies for school I needed. I made sure both my sister and I graduated. We both went to college. I am a teacher, and she is in the medical field. So I think it's bs that not every person can succeed because of how they were brought up.

Yhank you, for not only pulling yourself through what must have been very difficult, but caring enough about your sister to do the same thing for her!!!:goodvibes:

crashbb
01-28-2012, 07:48 AM
I am always fascinated by those wealthy DISers who hang out on the budget board:)

But if you didnt have to pay a dime for college-why did you end up with student loans?

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=43404086&postcount=13

I wouldn't have thought that growing up in a wealthy background would have meant

" tiny NYC apartment with 6 other people and no air, no place to play, no grass. I was miserable. I mean I was blessed because I had a loving family but would I want my kids to grow up like that?"

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=38372249&postcount=54

ilovemk76
01-28-2012, 08:21 AM
I wouldn't have thought that growing up in a wealthy background would have meant

" tiny NYC apartment with 6 other people and no air, no place to play, no grass. I was miserable. I mean I was blessed because I had a loving family but would I want my kids to grow up like that?"

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=38372249&postcount=54

Here she was rich again.

"So I didn't grow up poor, so I don't know if that has any thing to do with it. In fact I grew up pretty well off but we were taught not to waste and to work hard."

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=42926395&postcount=17

Tink-aholic
01-28-2012, 08:21 AM
Well - for some people it's just not that easy.

Graduating from high school is not too hard for some, almost impossible for others. Some kids are living in incredibly chaotic and dysfunctional households, where there is nowhere to study (and they can't go somewhere else because they are looking after younger siblings while their parents are working), nobody to wake them up for school in the morning, nobody to make sure they get nutritious meals. They may have learning disabilities (or brain damage caused by the drugs/alcohol their mothers used during the pregnancy) so that school is very tough for them, and their school may not do much to help. They may have to work long hours because the family needs the income.

And, sure, having a full-time job (ideally with good benefits) is the goal of many people, but for some it's a tough goal to achieve. There are many reasons why people don't get hired and not all of them are things the person can change.

My tips for not being poor would be: be born into a middle-class or wealthy family, with caring parents, who can give you a good start in life.

Teresa


Wait a second. If someone has a disability, then Federal Law allows for them to have an entire range of accomodations to help them through school; up to and including tutors and computers for free. It also allows them to stay in a public high school until age 21.

It is common that the breakfast and lunch that the kids get at school are the only meals they will have.

Also, I am a public high school teacher and most of my kids are the first ones in their families to graduate. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get up and go somewhere in the morning when the rest of your family is still asleep...and may have no plans to get up AT ALL during the day? That is why I call some of my students EVERY MORNING to wake them up, because graduating is important to both of us, even if it doesn't matter to their parents. I have done this for six years, and I even call on days that *I* am sick and am not going in.

My point is that there is NO EXCUSE for someone not to graduate. I agree with the article and firmly believe that if someone chooses not to, chances are they are choosing to live in poverty.

ssawka
01-28-2012, 08:31 AM
I think finishing High School as a means of staying out of poverty is a bit naive. Yes, finishing High School is important, but receiving some form of post high school education (college, trade school, etc.) is becoming a necessity these days.

I also think that this list is ignoring the intelligence factor. Let's face it, the intelligence of the person in part determines how much education and what types of jobs the person will be able to have.

Swan4Me
01-28-2012, 08:47 AM
http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=43108205&postcount=274

She makes high 6 to 7 figures a year.
Doesnt 7 figures mean $1 million dollars?
So a Millionaire is hanging on the Budget Board.:banana:

ilovemk76
01-28-2012, 08:59 AM
http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=43108205&postcount=274

She makes high 6 to 7 figures a year.
Doesnt 7 figures mean $1 million dollars?
So a Millionaire is hanging on the Budget Board.:banana:

And she said she will never pay 30% in taxes but the new "Buffet Law" is suppose to make the minimum alternative tax 30%.

eliza61
01-28-2012, 09:03 AM
I am always fascinated by those wealthy DISers who hang out on the budget board:)

But if you didnt have to pay a dime for college-why did you end up with student loans?

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=43404086&postcount=13

LOL, cause I keep going back to school.

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=43108205&postcount=274

She makes high 6 to 7 figures a year.
Doesnt 7 figures mean $1 million dollars?
So a Millionaire is hanging on the Budget Board.:banana:

comes and goes. some years yes, some years no. depending on end of year bonuses.

Anyhoo,
I stay on the budget board because I grew up with parents who pretty much had the mantra "waste not, want not" and they instilled that.
I break out in hives if I pay full price for any thing.
I also am probably not very financially literate especially when it comes to things like retirement. I think I've posted many times that one of my biggest regrets was that I did not really start saving until I was well into my 30's. While I didn't run up huge debt, me dh and I definitely spent what we made.
So the budget board is great on information.

eliza61
01-28-2012, 09:08 AM
And she said she will never pay 30% in taxes but the new "Buffet Law" is suppose to make the minimum alternative tax 30%.

LOL, you guys can ask me questions directly you know..

Buffet law hasn't been passesd yet. At least not according to my tax attorney. I haven't had my taxes done yet, so I'll let you know if any thing has changed. Truthfully I'm a bit of a cynic. I doubt that it ever will be, simply put there are too many lobbyist making sure not much will change.
If it is enacted or if there are any other changes to the tax law I'll pay it. I'm not about to try and do some thing illegal but if there are credits and loopholes that I can legally take advantage of, I will do that also. So I guess you are right, I should "never" say, "never"

I thought also that the buffet law was based on Congress and whether or not they can get elected if there is a deficiet of more than 3%? not sure what else it entails.

I know he is a big proponent of changing the tax laws, which I am too. my concern is not really the amount that I pay, I more concern in what I see as collosial waste. I'd also like to see a more fair system where no matter how rich or poor everyone kicks in. If you enjoy the freedom of this country you kick in.

msjprincess
01-28-2012, 09:10 AM
I wouldn't have thought that growing up in a wealthy background would have meant

" tiny NYC apartment with 6 other people and no air, no place to play, no grass. I was miserable. I mean I was blessed because I had a loving family but would I want my kids to grow up like that?"

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=38372249&postcount=54

I grew up with only 4 other people in a tiny NYC apartment. I must be really wealthy. :cool1:

Swan4Me
01-28-2012, 09:15 AM
LOL, cause I keep going back to school.



comes and goes. some years yes, some years no. depending on end of year bonuses.

.

Really?..
How was last year?
You were really complaining on College textbook cost here
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2376902

I had 2 in college at the same time and paid $600+ each kid, each semester
It is what it is

To me if you're making 7 figures a $130 textbook wouldnt set you off:rolleyes1

eliza61
01-28-2012, 09:20 AM
Really?..
How was last year?
You were really complaining on College textbook cost here
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2376902

I had 2 in college at the same time and paid $600+ each kid, each semester
It is what it is

To me if you're making 7 figures a $130 textbook wouldnt set you off:rolleyes1

why? :confused3 heck the cost of that stupid breakfast in the castle sets me off. The cost of the DDP sets me off. and yes when Bank of America tried to rip me off of 5 bucks a month I got an attitude and moved my accounts.

Because I make a good living I'm supposed to not complain about the cost of gas and food?
My youngest will start college in September and sorry I think the cost of tuition is ridiculous and way out of control. Regardless to what I make 40,000 bucks in my mind is absurd.

Sorry, I don't see the connection.

Here's some other things that set me off.
I try not to fly airlines that charge baggage fees.
I got rid of my fancy cell phone because I hate the data charges they automatically charge. Why should I pay for some thing that is no use to me.
I got rid of my premium cable package. Sorry once again I'm not paying $200 bucks and still have nothing to watch on tv on a Friday night.

lizabu
01-28-2012, 09:21 AM
I think those 3 rules are a good start. A high school diploma isn't the guarantee it once was. It's an absolute minimum these days. I think working hard and dedication are just as important as anything else. It bothers me when I see people making excuses. Excuses are easy. Hark work is not. I grew up in a rough household. My parents threw me out when I was 16 and I lived in a couple group homes and bounced around a bit and eventually got on welfare and got my own apartment. I was still a teen and it would've been real easy to just party and not do anything with my life. That's what many of my friends were doing. But I knew my only way out was to get my education. I still got married too young and had kids too young and struggled hard just to keep us all fed and keep the lights on. I also got divorced and struggled hard through the poverty that comes from that. I've been to food banks and I've been to Coats for Kids. All of this struggle has paid off for me in the end. I am one of the strongest most determined people I know. I work hard and I'm not afraid of anything (ok almost anything). I can stretch a dollar further than anyone I know. Now that things are easier for me and we're used to living on next to nothing we save a lot of money for the future and the last 2 years we've been taking at least 2 vacations/year. I think those tough times were a blessing in disguise. I don't spend my money on foolish things. If a kid asks me for a pair of $80 shoes I think that's a ridiculous amount of money to spend on shoes and I will offer to buy a cheaper pair or encourage them to save up their own money. I guess rule number 4 for me would be hard work and determination.

Muushka
01-28-2012, 09:22 AM
I'd also like to see a more fair system where no matter how rich or poor everyone kicks in. If you enjoy the freedom of this country you kick in.

I don't see any politician ever proposing very low income people paying any sort of income tax. It would be political suicide, sadly.

My wish is for the deductions to be pared down, considerably.

That way EVERYONE will benefit. Even someone like me, with no deductions whatsoever (well not enough to do the long form).

rnorwo1
01-28-2012, 09:26 AM
Wait a second. If someone has a disability, then Federal Law allows for them to have an entire range of accomodations to help them through school; up to and including tutors and computers for free. It also allows them to stay in a public high school until age 21.

It is common that the breakfast and lunch that the kids get at school are the only meals they will have.

Also, I am a public high school teacher and most of my kids are the first ones in their families to graduate. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get up and go somewhere in the morning when the rest of your family is still asleep...and may have no plans to get up AT ALL during the day? That is why I call some of my students EVERY MORNING to wake them up, because graduating is important to both of us, even if it doesn't matter to their parents. I have done this for six years, and I even call on days that *I* am sick and am not going in.

My point is that there is NO EXCUSE for someone not to graduate. I agree with the article and firmly believe that if someone chooses not to, chances are they are choosing to live in poverty.

Good for you for playing that role in these children's lives:hug: Unfortunately I think most schools do not have teachers, or at least enough teachers, who would do this. You are changing the equation for many children and giving them some of the protective factors that are helping them to succeed. It is their luck that they have a teacher like you, but other children just aren't as lucky. And I'm sure that despite your best efforts there are some kids who choose to not accept your help, but we'd have to know much more about their relationships and history to know whether or not they are really just making bad choices or if they just have so much negative stuff/people in their lives that they cannot overcome it. Likewise, a child with developmental disabilities can really only take full advantage of the accommodations if there's a caregiver who's able and willing to seek them out and support the child with additional attention.

My 2 siblings and I are a perfect example of this... we were born into a middle class family and I had two great, loving parents, and then, when we were 9, 7, and 5, there was a horriffic event that killed my dad and three others... my mom was a sahm and we suddenly had no income in addition to the stress/trauma of his death, she later remarried a horrible man who made our lives very difficult, etc.

I could say that my sister and I made better choices and that's why we're living more comfortably than my brother is now; I could also point out the dozens of very poor choices that my brother has made that have led directly to his current impoverished status and all the good choices that my sister and I have made that have led to our current benefits in life. But to focus just on our choices ignores so many other factors, mediating factors that have made it more likely that we make the choices that we do. For ex, my sister and I were simply born with better cognitive capabilities than my brother. We were also not eye-witnesses to the tragedy (research shows that trauma and chronic stress impact brain functioning/development), so while we were definitely impacted by his death, certainly not to the extent my brother was. We were also younger and are girls and therefore he got the lion's share of the maltreatment from my step-dad. And there were so many other factors that for one reason or another, none of which were his fault, my brother just did not have some of the advantages/protective factors that my sister and I did and that's why he is more likely to make such poor choices.

Like I posted previously, not everyone who has been through trauma and maltreatment make such poor choices as my brother, but it is so much more difficult for them to make good choices, so any generalized statement such as "just finish school and you'll avoid poverty" just is not that simple. And I say all of this not to offer excuses for my brother or other people who continually make poor choices that negatively impact their lives, but just to explain why it's more likely and understandable that certain people have a very hard time making good choices, through no fault of their own. My brother is still responsible for his choices and he's the only one who can change the direction of his life, but I hope that I'm never narcissistic enough to think that I am where I am just because of my choices and hard work... I was given better tools to handle our hard life, plain and simple.

mrsklamc
01-28-2012, 10:38 AM
I saw a variation of this about 12-13 years ago. Only it was, finish high school, don't get married until you are 21 or older, don't have children outside of wedlock.

I would call it good advice but so many things are uncertain in our current times...

As far as living in poverty being the best motivation to get out of it, for some it is. For others, it's the only thing they know and they accept it as normal.

Anyone baffled why the wealthy are on the budget board, I highly suggest "The Millionaire Next Door," or "The Millionaire Mind." The author has spent his career studying the wealthy, how they got rich, and how they behave when they get there.

chalee94
01-28-2012, 10:39 AM
To me if you're making 7 figures a $130 textbook wouldnt set you off:rolleyes1

so if you were making 7 figures, you'd throw away a couple of hundred dollars without thinking about it? you'd light your cigars by setting $100 bills on fire?

you've got some awfully arrogant opinions about what the rich are like...

Muushka
01-28-2012, 10:46 AM
Look at Clark Howard! The guy has a bundle but is very frugal. I admire that, I won't ever make fun of it.

HsvTeacher
01-28-2012, 10:46 AM
Really?..
How was last year?
You were really complaining on College textbook cost here
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2376902

I had 2 in college at the same time and paid $600+ each kid, each semester
It is what it is

To me if you're making 7 figures a $130 textbook wouldnt set you off:rolleyes1

But how do rich people stay rich? By not blowing through all of their money.

I have some relatives who are very well off, and they stay that way by living way below their means. You'd never know they were multimillionaires because they don't live like they are.

Muushka
01-28-2012, 10:48 AM
Look at Clark Howard. The guy has a bundle but is very frugal. I admire that, I won't ever make fun of it.

limace
01-28-2012, 11:04 AM
1. Have the good fortune to be born in a first world country.
2. Have the good fortune to be born to middle class parents.
3. That should do it.

ilovemk76
01-28-2012, 11:10 AM
But how do rich people stay rich? By not blowing through all of their money.

I have some relatives who are very well off, and they stay that way by living way below their means. You'd never know they were multimillionaires because they don't live like they are.

The PP is claiming to make a million dollars a year but she needs to fill out the FAFSA to try to get college help for her son. She really thinks they will say she does not have the means to pay the $39K-$42K for Seton Hall? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I think she is stretching the truth. The 6-7 figures is really 5-6 figures.

punkin
01-28-2012, 11:19 AM
The PP is claiming to make a million dollars a year but she needs to fill out the FAFSA to try to get college help for her son. She really thinks they will say she does not have the means to pay the $39K-$42K for Seton Hall? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I think she is stretching the truth. The 6-7 figures is really 5-6 figures.

I have asked this before and now I am asking again...how do you people remember so much about who every poster is and every thing they've ever posted? It borders on being a stalker.

Also, rich people need budgets every bit as much (if not more so) than poor people.

FAFSA (at some schools) is required for merit aid as well as financial aid. MY estimated family contribution is over $60K and yet I fill out the FAFSA for DD every year.

marie1203
01-28-2012, 11:41 AM
This had gotten well of subject and even political which is a no, no on this board. Anyway OP I think the guide lines are good to start with. The only thing I find it missing is learn how to manage your money because no matter how much money you make if you don't know how to manage your money you still can be broke.
I think too many people in this thread get too caught up with money while it is important to save and be responsible but at the end of the day it will not help you in your grave. While I am all about being frugal complaining about paying $130 for a college book while you make 6 figures seems ridiculous.

DMRick
01-28-2012, 11:45 AM
Not pertaining to anyone in particular, but like you, the 'rich' people I know are frugal, however, they also don't complain/worry when they do need to spend money. They are thankful they have it to spend.
One couple I have in mind have a child that just finished college at a very expensive school. They were not qualified to get student loans (their son wasn't) and they weren't qualified to get parent loans. I don't know many 'rich' people who can get the loans. They have the money to pay, so it's expected they pay. Their son still got merit grants, but no loans :(
While they may look for the best place to get their sons books, it's not a hardship for them to pay what they have to pay. I'm sure they have a nice nestegg (just bought a wonderful second home in a really nice vacation area), just judging by how very generous they are to our cat rescue.
You are correct, many rich people live below their means..I imagine it's how they stay rich..but they usually don't need to take out loans to pay what they owe, unless taking out the loan is less interest than the money they are earning on their savings.


But how do rich people stay rich? By not blowing through all of their money.

I have some relatives who are very well off, and they stay that way by living way below their means. You'd never know they were multimillionaires because they don't live like they are.

Ceila
01-28-2012, 11:55 AM
I have asked this before and now I am asking again...how do you people remember so much about who every poster is and every thing they've ever posted? It borders on being a stalker.



I fail to understand why people don't realize that once you put something on the internet, it can be out there forever. And I also don't understand why people on this board expect others to never remember what another poster said. It's not stalking. For heaven's sake, it's not a crime to recall other things that posters have written! And frankly, nobody should be surprised to get called out when they post conflicting or hypocritical statements.

RitaE
01-28-2012, 12:00 PM
Not pertaining to anyone in particular, but like you, the 'rich' people I know are frugal, however, they also don't complain/worry when they do need to spend money. They are thankful they have it to spend.
One couple I have in mind have a child that just finished college at a very expensive school. They were not qualified to get student loans (their son wasn't) and they weren't qualified to get parent loans. I don't know many 'rich' people who can get the loans. They have the money to pay, so it's expected they pay. Their son still got merit grants, but no loans :(
While they may look for the best place to get their sons books, it's not a hardship for them to pay what they have to pay. I'm sure they have a nice nestegg (just bought a wonderful second home in a really nice vacation area), just judging by how very generous they are to our cat rescue.
You are correct, many rich people live below their means..I imagine it's how they stay rich..but they usually don't need to take out loans to pay what they owe, unless taking out the loan is less interest than the money they are earning on their savings.

Just to clarify here - we "rich people" (because rich in Financial terms isn't all that rich) can get loans. There are no upper income ceilings where you can't get PLUS loans anymore. What we can't get are subsidized loans and the interest rates on un-subsidized loans are so high people are often able to do better just by using their credit cards or taking out a personal loan at the bank.

punkin
01-28-2012, 12:00 PM
Not pertaining to anyone in particular, but like you, the 'rich' people I know are frugal, however, they also don't complain/worry when they do need to spend money. They are thankful they have it to spend.
One couple I have in mind have a child that just finished college at a very expensive school. They were not qualified to get student loans (their son wasn't) and they weren't qualified to get parent loans. I don't know many 'rich' people who can get the loans. They have the money to pay, so it's expected they pay. Their son still got merit grants, but no loans :(
While they may look for the best place to get their sons books, it's not a hardship for them to pay what they have to pay. I'm sure they have a nice nestegg (just bought a wonderful second home in a really nice vacation area), just judging by how very generous they are to our cat rescue.
You are correct, many rich people live below their means..I imagine it's how they stay rich..but they usually don't need to take out loans to pay what they owe, unless taking out the loan is less interest than the money they are earning on their savings.

There is no income qualification requirement for UNSUBSIDIZED student loans or PLUS (parents'_) loans. Anyone can qualify for them. Whether they are a good financial move is a different story.

ilovemk76
01-28-2012, 12:07 PM
I have asked this before and now I am asking again...how do you people remember so much about who every poster is and every thing they've ever posted? It borders on being a stalker.

Also, rich people need budgets every bit as much (if not more so) than poor people.

FAFSA (at some schools) is required for merit aid as well as financial aid. MY estimated family contribution is over $60K and yet I fill out the FAFSA for DD every year.

A rich person budgets but does not complain about buying what a candy bar costs to us.

Some of us have way better memories than others. When she first posted the 6-7 figure I was shocked that she would brag and asked her about it. Of course, she ignored it. That stuck in my head and made me wonder if she made it up.

Then I see her posting about not having money for a roof. Hmmmm I do not make 7 figures (very, very far from it) but I could replace my roof and not have to borrow money so that I only had $3K left in the bank.

Then she is having trouble with paying for college.

Do you really think a person who makes a million dollars a year has troubles paying these tiny bills. A $130 book at her income is what a second of work?

We am helping another person with college. This is no my child. I spent way more than $130 for books and I did not need a thread to complain about the cost.

I remembered her "we were poor post" and then I see this how wealthy her
parents were.

People can pretend to be whomever they want but when you pretend it is best to keep the story straight.

ilovemk76
01-28-2012, 12:08 PM
This had gotten well of subject and even political which is a no, no on this board. Anyway OP I think the guide lines are good to start with. The only thing I find it missing is learn how to manage your money because no matter how much money you make if you don't know how to manage your money you still can be broke.
I think too many people in this thread get too caught up with money while it is important to save and be responsible but at the end of the day it will not help you in your grave. While I am all about being frugal complaining about paying $130 for a college book while you make 6 figures seems ridiculous.

But she says she makes 7 figures!!;)

sk!mom
01-28-2012, 12:21 PM
Well - for some people it's just not that easy.


My tips for not being poor would be: be born into a middle-class or wealthy family, with caring parents, who can give you a good start in life.

Teresa

You're right it's very, very difficult for some but that does not change the statistics. My DH and his siblings were born and raised in poverty. Four of them got out by meeting those steps. Two became pregnant as teens, quit school, and continued in poverty.

You are also correct that being born into the middle class makes it easier. My children definitely have an easier time and more choices than my DH and his siblings had. DH's brother joined the military to get out and DH took out student loans and worked full time while going to college to get ahead. It was hard and took much determination and perseverance. My children don't have to join the military unless they want to. They have parents who saved and will continue to support them through college while they work part time- Certainly much easier.

For me the bottom line is that we need to support those programs that help people reach those goals rather than support them continuing in poverty. The Brookings study went on to say that social programs with strings attached have been successful in nudging people out of poverty.

marie1203
01-28-2012, 01:28 PM
But she says she makes 7 figures!!;)

Well she said it depends on the year so I was low end. DH doesn't make six figures and I am a full time student we pay for books and most of tuition out of pocket and I don't complain because it is for my education.The poster it was her choice that she keep going back to school then why would it shock you the price of books when you been to school many times before.

disykat
01-28-2012, 02:23 PM
so if you were making 7 figures, you'd throw away a couple of hundred dollars without thinking about it? you'd light your cigars by setting $100 bills on fire?

you've got some awfully arrogant opinions about what the rich are like...

They say there are a lot of secret millionaires out there who die in their budget homes leaving behind previously unknown about wealth. I agree wtih you IN THEORY. However, I really doubt people who make a million dollars a year (or in the high hundred thousands) generally fuss over the kinds of things this poster is fussing about, have to take out school loans, or spend much time on the budget board trying to figure out how to save a few nickels. My thought is that someone got mixed up and meant to say they had a high FIVE figure or low SIX figure income and isn't making the millions we're assuming.

People who make that kind of money don't do so at a "job."

drcmk
01-28-2012, 03:04 PM
Liberals tend to think that anyone not on welfare is rich.[/B]

That is so true. And (for me) it explains a lot. It is why the middle class will always be screwed.

Sorry, I can't let that one go. I am a liberal. I've never been on welfare or any kind of public assistance. I am far from rich. I don't actually know anyone I would consider rich, even though no one from our social circle has had to use welfare or unemployment (that I know).

Sweeping generalizations only serve to stir up emotions, not to explain anything and certainly not to solve problems.

DMRick
01-28-2012, 03:38 PM
Sorry..I should have said school loans..meant specifically for students and parents of students and often those that are needy. Loans that people can afford to actually pay back. Of course there are other types of loans, house refinancing, etc.
Just to clarify here - we "rich people" (because rich in Financial terms isn't all that rich) can get loans. There are no upper income ceilings where you can't get PLUS loans anymore. What we can't get are subsidized loans and the interest rates on un-subsidized loans are so high people are often able to do better just by using their credit cards or taking out a personal loan at the bank.

Danibelle
01-28-2012, 03:38 PM
I fail to understand why people don't realize that once you put something on the internet, it can be out there forever. And I also don't understand why people on this board expect others to never remember what another poster said. It's not stalking. For heaven's sake, it's not a crime to recall other things that posters have written! And frankly, nobody should be surprised to get called out when they post conflicting or hypocritical statements.

Thank you for pointing this out! :thumbsup2

eliza61
01-28-2012, 03:50 PM
A rich person budgets but does not complain about buying what a candy bar costs to us.

Some of us have way better memories than others. When she first posted the 6-7 figure I was shocked that she would brag and asked her about it. Of course, she ignored it. That stuck in my head and made me wonder if she made it up.

Then I see her posting about not having money for a roof. Hmmmm I do not make 7 figures (very, very far from it) but I could replace my roof and not have to borrow money so that I only had $3K left in the bank.

Then she is having trouble with paying for college.

Do you really think a person who makes a million dollars a year has troubles paying these tiny bills. A $130 book at her income is what a second of work?

We am helping another person with college. This is no my child. I spent way more than $130 for books and I did not need a thread to complain about the cost.

I remembered her "we were poor post" and then I see this how wealthy her
parents were.

People can pretend to be whomever they want but when you pretend it is best to keep the story straight.

Ok so this is getting a little mean so I'll end it here.

1) A rich person complains about any thing they want, just like a poor person. I apologize I did not know there was an income level requirement before one could complain. And yes I complain about the cost of candy bars because I think its ridiculous that the same size bar that used to cost a quarter is now $1.50.
2) I never said I could not afford the pay the tuition at Seton Hall, the thread was How do rich folks afford college tuition. I answered the question.
3) I fill out the Fasfa because most schools require you to do so in order to qualify for school based grants and aid. If a school wishes to give my kid some money. Damn straight I'm taking it. NO matter what my income.
4) I also said my income varies, some years very good, some years great.
5) I also believe my roofing question was not that I could not pay for it but if I remember correctly that was the year I also had a huge IRS bill, my a/c broke and had another big bill. I believe the thread was about should I take a loan or use up my emergency cash account. No matter what my income I don't have an endless supply of cash to tap into.
6) I didn't answer your previous question because it was probably none of your freakin business.
7) I was not bragging. Muushka asked a very direct question whether her upbringing influenced how she thought. I answered her question from a different prespective.
8) I also complain about the cost of braces (ridiculous), the cost of my nieces bikini (ridiculous). I also asked where to find a cheap cocktail dress because I hate wasting money on an item that I will only wear once, once again no matter what my income I hate to waste money.
9) I have blown money in my youth. probably why I hate to do it now.

enjoy.

Swan4Me
01-28-2012, 04:02 PM
elixa- just admit you don't make 7 figures a year at DuPont as a chemist
( you DO know 7 figures means a Million dollars- right?)

eliza61
01-28-2012, 04:09 PM
elixa- just admit you don't make 7 figures a year at DuPont as a chemist
( you DO know 7 figures means a Million dollars- right?)

LOL you are absolutely right I 100% admit I don't make a million dollars as a chemist, I also own a few businesses, have a husband who is into oil and have various other investments
But you are 100% correct, Dupont salaries are generally in the 2000-300K pre bonus. except the name is Eliza.

It's actually worse than you think. I'm currently taking baking classes. my goal is in 5 years to launch a line of absolutely fabulous gourmet cup cakes. My ultimate dream would be to have my cupcakes in Disney land Paris, Disney land CA and Epcot. I guess I'll really have no right to complain.

Swan4Me
01-28-2012, 04:12 PM
:rotfl2:
Wow-owns a few biznesses here and Internationally
The DIS never fails to keep things interesting on a boring Sat afternoon
;)

mrsklamc
01-28-2012, 04:18 PM
I guess I don't see why it's that interesting? There was also a lotto winner on here that someone was skeptical of, and I just don't understand why it's so confounding to people that some people actually do have money?

(I'm not one of them, btw. DH and I both work for non profits and budget carefully so that we are able to do that. But maybe that's why we don't have a problem with the fact that there are people who are extremely well off and don't flaunt it. We both know our most incredibly generous donors are very unassuming people.)

crashbb
01-28-2012, 04:24 PM
I guess I don't see why it's that interesting? There was also a lotto winner on here that someone was skeptical of, and I just don't understand why it's so confounding to people that some people actually do have money?

(I'm not one of them, btw. DH and I both work for non profits and budget carefully so that we are able to do that. But maybe that's why we don't have a problem with the fact that there are people who are extremely well off and don't flaunt it. We both know our most incredibly generous donors are very unassuming people.)

I'm not confused about people having money. What DOES confuse me is someone who, in one post, states that they had to live in a tiny, crowded, hot apartment and that their only "blessing" was a family and in another posts tells us how financially wealthy her upbringing was.

There is no way to pass those off as anything but contradictory posts.

ilovemk76
01-28-2012, 04:25 PM
Ok so this is getting a little mean so I'll end it here.

1) A rich person complains about any thing they want, just like a poor person. I apologize I did not know there was an income level requirement before one could complain. And yes I complain about the cost of candy bars because I think its ridiculous that the same size bar that used to cost a quarter is now $1.50.
2) I never said I could not afford the pay the tuition at Seton Hall, the thread was How do rich folks afford college tuition. I answered the question.
3) I fill out the Fasfa because most schools require you to do so in order to qualify for school based grants and aid. If a school wishes to give my kid some money. Damn straight I'm taking it. NO matter what my income.
4) I also said my income varies, some years very good, some years great.
5) I also believe my roofing question was not that I could not pay for it but if I remember correctly that was the year I also had a huge IRS bill, my a/c broke and had another big bill. I believe the thread was about should I take a loan or use up my emergency cash account. No matter what my income I don't have an endless supply of cash to tap into.
6) I didn't answer your previous question because it was probably none of your freakin business.
7) I was not bragging. Muushka asked a very direct question whether her upbringing influenced how she thought. I answered her question from a different prespective.
8) I also complain about the cost of braces (ridiculous), the cost of my nieces bikini (ridiculous). I also asked where to find a cheap cocktail dress because I hate wasting money on an item that I will only wear once, once again no matter what my income I hate to waste money.
9) I have blown money in my youth. probably why I hate to do it now.

enjoy.

So were you poor and had 6 in a tiny apartment or where you wealthy as a kid?

ilovemk76
01-28-2012, 04:27 PM
I guess I don't see why it's that interesting? There was also a lotto winner on here that someone was skeptical of, and I just don't understand why it's so confounding to people that some people actually do have money?

(I'm not one of them, btw. DH and I both work for non profits and budget carefully so that we are able to do that. But maybe that's why we don't have a problem with the fact that there are people who are extremely well off and don't flaunt it. We both know our most incredibly generous donors are very unassuming people.)

You answered your own question.;)

Happiest mommy
01-28-2012, 04:49 PM
This is some good reading popcorn::

CammelleandBre
01-28-2012, 05:10 PM
I don't usually post but I thought it would be interesting to give my point of view. I'm a 27 year old african american woman. I was raised in an upper middle class household. Dad was an engineer for GE, mom was stay at home. Wonderful school district. But at 17 I became pregnant, had my daughter right after I turned 18. My parents offered to support me and my daughter while I finished school. I declined moved out on my own with the help of public assistance and food stamps. And by the time I was 23 I had graduated and went to college and became a nurse. And in Nov. of 2010 I moved into a brand new built from the ground up house, and I have also never been married, and had a child way before 21. So when you see people with food stamps, or on public assistance do not judge, because you do not know where they are going or where they came from. And there are no rules for staying out of poverty. God gives it to you and he can take it away. I'm also a left winger waaaaaay left.

a1tinkfans
01-28-2012, 06:11 PM
I don't usually post but I thought it would be interesting to give my point of view. I'm a 27 year old african american woman. I was raised in an upper middle class household. Dad was an engineer for GE, mom was stay at home. Wonderful school district. But at 17 I became pregnant, had my daughter right after I turned 18. My parents offered to support me and my daughter while I finished school. I declined moved out on my own with the help of public assistance and food stamps. And by the time I was 23 I had graduated and went to college and became a nurse. And in Nov. of 2010 I moved into a brand new built from the ground up house, and I have also never been married, and had a child way before 21. So when you see people with food stamps, or on public assistance do not judge, because you do not know where they are going or where they came from. And there are no rules for staying out of poverty. God gives it to you and he can take it away. I'm also a left winger waaaaaay left.

Good For You! You're a Great Role model for your daughter.... strive for success....it CAN be done with the "will" to want it! :wizard:!

ilovemk76
01-28-2012, 06:14 PM
LOL you are absolutely right I 100% admit I don't make a million dollars as a chemist, I also own a few businesses, have a husband who is into oil and have various other investments
But you are 100% correct, Dupont salaries are generally in the 2000-300K pre bonus. except the name is Eliza.

It's actually worse than you think. I'm currently taking baking classes. my goal is in 5 years to launch a line of absolutely fabulous gourmet cup cakes. My ultimate dream would be to have my cupcakes in Disney land Paris, Disney land CA and Epcot. I guess I'll really have no right to complain.

I hope you are hiring men from your church's food pantry/soup kitchen that need a job. I would hate to think you are taking all that money out as the CEO of the company and not hiring these poor men from Camden.

disney4us2002
01-28-2012, 06:29 PM
I don't usually post but I thought it would be interesting to give my point of view. I'm a 27 year old african american woman. I was raised in an upper middle class household. Dad was an engineer for GE, mom was stay at home. Wonderful school district. But at 17 I became pregnant, had my daughter right after I turned 18. My parents offered to support me and my daughter while I finished school. I declined moved out on my own with the help of public assistance and food stamps. And by the time I was 23 I had graduated and went to college and became a nurse. And in Nov. of 2010 I moved into a brand new built from the ground up house, and I have also never been married, and had a child way before 21. So when you see people with food stamps, or on public assistance do not judge, because you do not know where they are going or where they came from. And there are no rules for staying out of poverty. God gives it to you and he can take it away. I'm also a left winger waaaaaay left.

I applaud you. :goodvibes You must realize that you are not the norm. Not by a long shot. There is definitely something, a driving force, inside some people that is clearly missing in others that allows and pushes one to succeed. Statistics absolutely support that young, single mothers are much less likely to reach "middle class".

MrsPete
01-28-2012, 06:40 PM
Oops --duplicate posts. I'm having some computer trouble tonight.

MrsPete
01-28-2012, 06:44 PM
Well, that was my point. Many things that people have no choice in have a huge effect on whether or not they succeed. I disagree. A few people genuinely cannot succeed for reasons beyond their control, but the vast, vast majority can manage to graduate from high school (kids in need get soooo much special help these days; really, everyone should graduate), avoid pregnancy before marriage, etc.

I'll give an example: A few nights ago my husband and I went to the grocery store, and the check-out girl was one of my former students. I asked how long it'd been since she graduated, noted that she'd been at that grocery store for years now, and she said she's an assistant manager now. I told her I was proud of her, which was very true. Back in the car, my husband said he could tell that the girl had been one of my favorites. She was. She has four brothers who have been hanging around high school for years and years and aren't close to graduate at all. Their mother has literally never worked a day in her life, nor was she ever married. The four boys cause trouble constantly at school and receive all sorts of special services. The girl also had some special services at school, yet she also worked from the time she was old enough, and she's making something of herself. No one advocates for her at home. No one values education or work at her house. For her to become an assistant manager three years out of high school is like a middle-class kid becoming a surgeon; it's a huge accomplishment -- she really worked hard for this. Looking at this family, she's the kid who shouldn't have made it. Where'd she go right?

In contrast, I just taught a kid last year who has two doctors for parents. He's one of a slew of kids -- I want to say five, but I might be wrong. He's the third child. All his siblings have done okay in school. Not great, but okay. They all started in private school and moved to public for high school. They have everything going for them: Two educated parents who are moderately involved with school, opportunities for educational enrichment, travel, money. Yet he's lazy, lazy, lazy and probably won't graduate with his class this year. He's the kid who should have made it -- with honors. And his siblings all should've done more than graduate with average grades. Where'd he go wrong?

I know LOTS of kids who defy the odds (for good or for bad). In fact, I was one of them. I'd like to add a 4th tip: Spend less than you earn (this works for people no matter how much or little you make)I agree, and I'll add two more: Don't divorce. Divorce is one of the most expensive choices you can make.
And avoid debt. If you can't pay it today, why do you think you can pay for it AND INTEREST tomorrow? Think of a child who experiences any one of these risk factors: growing up in poverty, being prenatally exposed to alcohol or drugs, growing up with a mother always passed out from substances, experiencing abuse or neglect, not receiving (for one reason or another) an education, being raped/sexually abused, having cognitive limitations due to prenatal exposure or neglect, etc... There is no way to say which one of these horrible things will lead to poverty, but they are ALL, among other variables, risk factors for poverty (and other things, such as mental illness... hey, another risk factor for poverty that hard work can't easily overcome!) Was that six factors that you listed? I had two of them. And my parents actually threw roadblocks in my way to try to prevent me from going to college. Yet I have two college degrees and have been working in a professional job for two decades.

My husband had a supportive family, but he experienced one of these negatives growing up (plus he lost a parent at a young age), yet today he also has two college degrees and has been in a professional job for more than 25 years.

I don't believe we both beat the odds randomly. We're both intelligent and were born with good health, but we don't have any special skills or abilities that helped us out of tough situations. Neither of us inherited great wealth, won a lottery, developed an invention that made millions, or anything else outrageous. I think we just recognized that we wanted to make something of ourselves, so we worked hard. Day after day.

I totally agree that people who are born with low cognitive ability, serious mental illnesses, or serious physical handicaps are much less likely to "make it" in the world -- but that's a small percentage of Americans. People with average intelligence and healthy bodies might not have as many opportunities as those who also have supportive families (and money, and educational help), but too many of us "make it" to say that it's unlikely. http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=43108205&postcount=274

She makes high 6 to 7 figures a year.
Doesnt 7 figures mean $1 million dollars?
So a Millionaire is hanging on the Budget Board.:banana:I have no idea about the poster whom you're criticizing, but you're operating under the mistaken idea that a person with a big salary doesn't need to pay attention to how he or she spends it. EVERYONE who wants to do well financially needs a budget; some of those budgets are higher than others. Free-spenders are likely to end up broke no matter how much money they earn.

Personally, I can tell you that my husband and I don't earn all that much money. We're in a part of the country where the cost of living (and salaries as well) is low. We are very healthy financially not because we bring in big bucks, but because we started saving young, because we avoid debt like the plague, and because we spend very carefully. To me if you're making 7 figures a $130 textbook wouldnt set you off:rolleyes1So people who have money shouldn't complain when they pay a huge price for something that's clearly a rip-off? No textbook should cost $130. It's completely outrageous. Colleges shouldn't be able to get away with it.

Here's an analogy: Right now I have about 12K in my checking account (and payday's next week), and my kids asked if we could go to the movies tonight. I told them no because tickets are $10.50 on Saturday nights; I told them we can go tomorrow afternoon when tickets are $6.00 -- how much money I have has no impact on what I'm willing to spend. I expect to get the best value for every dollar.

Being budget-minded doesn't mean you're poor.
Rather, being budget-minded means you watch your pennies. They say there are a lot of secret millionaires out there who die in their budget homes leaving behind previously unknown about wealth. I agree wtih you IN THEORY. However, I really doubt people who make a million dollars a year (or in the high hundred thousands) generally fuss over the kinds of things this poster is fussing about, have to take out school loans, or spend much time on the budget board trying to figure out how to save a few nickels. My thought is that someone got mixed up and meant to say they had a high FIVE figure or low SIX figure income and isn't making the millions we're assuming.

People who make that kind of money don't do so at a "job."I know more than a few "secret millionaires", but I grew up in an unusual area: It was VERY rural, and most people in my parents' generation inherited land yet chose to live in the small two-bedroom houses that their grandparents had built (often adding on a family room, another bathroom, or whatever). Few of them had college educations, and most of them worked very hard at blue collar jobs. Our county had the highest per-capita savings rate in the state, yet to drive through the area you'd NEVER have known it.

Things have changed a good bit for my age group, but I know that I personally am very much like that older generation. A rich person budgets but does not complain about buying what a candy bar costs to us.I wouldn't complain about the cost of a candy bar . . . but a candy bar is a luxury purchase; as such, I only buy them when they're buy-one-get-one-free. Or after holidays, when bags of candy are marked down. As I said a moment ago, it's not about how much money I have -- it's about getting the most for every dollar. Frugal doesn't mean poor. Frugal doesn't mean you don't have money.I don't usually post but I thought it would be interesting to give my point of view. I'm a 27 year old african american woman. I was raised in an upper middle class household. Dad was an engineer for GE, mom was stay at home. Wonderful school district. But at 17 I became pregnant, had my daughter right after I turned 18. My parents offered to support me and my daughter while I finished school. I declined moved out on my own with the help of public assistance and food stamps. And by the time I was 23 I had graduated and went to college and became a nurse. And in Nov. of 2010 I moved into a brand new built from the ground up house, and I have also never been married, and had a child way before 21. So when you see people with food stamps, or on public assistance do not judge, because you do not know where they are going or where they came from. And there are no rules for staying out of poverty. God gives it to you and he can take it away. I'm also a left winger waaaaaay left.Good for you! You're proof that a person who is willing to work hard can make it, even when the road isn't laid out nice and neat for you.

However, I'm sure that you know plenty of other girls in similar situations who didn't do as well. Thinking of the people I knew from high school, and thinking of the kids I've taught in my 20 years in high school, the statistics are true: Most of the ones who become pregnant as teens will suffer for it financially. How do the few successful girls manage to "do it right"? They're more mature, and they realize that they're going to have to work harder than the other kids. But most won't step up to the plate and do what has to be done.

KKB
01-28-2012, 07:03 PM
My tips for not being poor would be: be born into a middle-class or wealthy family, with caring parents, who can give you a good start in life.

Teresa

Your tips are IMPOSSIBLE for some...one cannot choose to be born into a certain class, nor can one choose caring parents (and there are caring parents & rotten parents at all economic levels

BUT graduating high school, waiting until 21 to marry, waiting to marry to have kids & being employed full-time are CHOICES (for the most part...FT work in can be elusive for some but still, nationally over 90% of adults are employed full-time)

Not saying that these are EASY choices for everyone...but my husband was raised by a single mother in poverty. Not only did he get a high school education, he went to college also (loans/grants/part time work)--because he knew (as did his mother) that schooling was the ticket out of poverty.

My husband & I are teachers in schools with diverse populations. We have always encouraged our students to graduate high school, etc, but to have evidence is very helpful. Many students WILL buy into this--it is simple & straightforward. Great resource for many.

Ciao Mickey
01-28-2012, 08:08 PM
I don't usually post but I thought it would be interesting to give my point of view. I'm a 27 year old african american woman. I was raised in an upper middle class household. Dad was an engineer for GE, mom was stay at home. Wonderful school district. But at 17 I became pregnant, had my daughter right after I turned 18. My parents offered to support me and my daughter while I finished school. I declined moved out on my own with the help of public assistance and food stamps. And by the time I was 23 I had graduated and went to college and became a nurse. And in Nov. of 2010 I moved into a brand new built from the ground up house, and I have also never been married, and had a child way before 21. So when you see people with food stamps, or on public assistance do not judge, because you do not know where they are going or where they came from. And there are no rules for staying out of poverty. God gives it to you and he can take it away. I'm also a left winger waaaaaay left.

So you were raised in an *upper middle-class home* and yet you chose to go on welfare instead of continuing to live at home and have your family help you?

So instead of your family helping you out, we the taxpayers got stuck footing the bill taking care of you and your child? :thumbsup2

And you think that was the right thing to do? :sad2:

marlynnp
01-28-2012, 08:50 PM
gourmet cupcakes? 5 years from now? :rotfl:
I think the cupcake fad is just about over.

Not to mention that I think Disney is doing just fine making their own.

EMHDad
01-28-2012, 09:09 PM
The unemployment rate in this country is at about 8.5%. However, you can't pick a random 8-9 ppl out of a 100. If you separate it out, the unemployment rate of college graduates is about 5ish%, high school graduates at about 12%, and high school dropouts at well over 20%

I understand that not everyone goes to college or even high school. However, the statistics don't lie. In the great recession, the more education a person has had, the less likely they would fall into that 8.5%

Swan4Me
01-28-2012, 09:17 PM
gourmet cupcakes? 5 years from now? :rotfl:
I think the cupcake fad is just about over.

Not to mention that I think Disney is doing just fine making their own.

;)
Yep- the cupcake trend is nearly done

but I am amazed that besides the existing companies here and abroad, the full time job as a chemist, she still needs another job/ company:rolleyes1

kirstenb1
01-28-2012, 09:21 PM
LOL you are absolutely right I 100% admit I don't make a million dollars as a chemist, I also own a few businesses, have a husband who is into oil and have various other investments
But you are 100% correct, Dupont salaries are generally in the 2000-300K pre bonus. except the name is Eliza.

It's actually worse than you think. I'm currently taking baking classes. my goal is in 5 years to launch a line of absolutely fabulous gourmet cup cakes. My ultimate dream would be to have my cupcakes in Disney land Paris, Disney land CA and Epcot. I guess I'll really have no right to complain.

Dh works for Dupont. He's an electrical engineer, and makes half of your salary at best. Most of the engineers here make 80 to 90 per year. Because he had 20 yrs of specialized experience in manufacturing/robotics, they bumped him up a little. Wow!! mAybe there's a salary differential due to geographic location.

Swan4Me
01-28-2012, 09:51 PM
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/research-chemist-salary-SRCH_KO0,16.htm

;):hippie::laughing:



















DuPont Safety & Protection Salaries




Research Chemist

14 DuPont Safety & Protection Salaries

$87,871





$85k

$96k





Senior Research Chemist

3 DuPont Safety & Protection Salaries

$93,320





$84k

$101k





Section Research Chemist

2 DuPont Safety & Protection Salaries

$87,902






$82k

$94k

JandT'smom
01-28-2012, 11:24 PM
Education is always so important and a major part of the puzzle.

Mrs. Sojourner
01-29-2012, 02:44 AM
I agree, and I'll add two more: Don't divorce. Divorce is one of the most expensive choices you can make.
And avoid debt. If you can't pay it today, why do you think you can pay for it AND INTEREST tomorrow? :thumbsup2

smidgy
01-29-2012, 03:06 AM
haven't read the whole thread. (disclaimer)


I want to agree with Mrs. pete.


I would tell my younger self (and my younger hubby's self)....

divorce is expensive.... even if you can agree on one lawyer, it still costs you.... sigh.

do NOT want to get into it..but divorce is one of the most expensive.. AVOIDABLE expenses
at least we didn't do the worst... do NOT let 2 lawyers eat up all the equity in a house.

Arabelle
01-29-2012, 06:42 AM
So you were raised in an *upper middle-class home* and yet you chose to go on welfare instead of continuing to live at home and have your family help you?

So instead of your family helping you out, we the taxpayers got stuck footing the bill taking care of you and your child? :thumbsup2

And you think that was the right thing to do? :sad2:


No kidding! That is the honorable thing to do?!

DawnM
01-29-2012, 07:35 AM
I would add in some sort of training beyond high school. It could be a tech training or a certificate of some sort, but basic high school doesn't get you all that far without some sort of additional training.

nunzia
01-29-2012, 08:46 AM
I struggle with that also Muushka especially with my sons.
I will absolutely never ever lie and say a wealthy background did not give me advantages. I knew from day one I was going to college and I knew I would not have to pay a dime to do it. I'd like to think I was appreciative of it and my parents also instilled a hard work ethic. I knew that if I fooled around and screwed up my pop had no problem yanking the proverbial goose that lays the golden egg. Yet I also did not worry about gunshots in my Harlem apartment that was bigger than most houses. I went to private catholic schools, so can I turn around and say a kid from the South Bronx had the same opportunity? No, I don't think I can. So for me, it's not hard for me to have sympathy. I can't imagine having to dodge gunshots to get to your school. Let me turn it around, would I have been as successful as I am now if I was born in poverty exposed to the daily violence that I see in the kids I work with? I know folks here always say that the people they know on welfare are living in mcmansion and going to disneyworld but the clients home I visit, let me tell you the best description of them are hovels.
Would I have exceeded living like that?

I also am very aware of the fact that my wealth still brings me advantages. You know Sid the squid (honorable son # 1) is an Asperger kid. I know the advantages I had getting him the best care in this country. I read peoples stories of fights they have had with the public education getting help for their learning disable kids and I thank the Lord that I did not have to deal with that. like other so famously in the news I make well into the 6 figures and because of the current tax system, I routinely pay 12-15% income tax. I have never and probably will never pay any where near 30%.
I like to think that I teach my sons strong work ethics but Rizzo is now doing his college search, never once did he have to think about cost. He does have to worry about me wringing his neck if he fools around but is his life easier because he doesn't worry about his next meal, or graduating with tons of college debt. I've told you about our cross country college searches. He does know that his choices are only limited by his grades. Have I done the right thing by giving him those opportunities?

I try to make him understands the sacrifices others have made on his behalf and what we expect from him.

I have a grandson with Aspergers and he is in the public system and it has been a struggle, but there are services out there and he had some good and not so good experiences, but a solid loving family helps him along. Yes..people who have all the right eggs in their basket have better shots, and kids who can manage to have just a proper egg or 2 can be strong and rise above. My DD, who was the one in the gifted programs, goody 2 shoes, etc., had a rebellion and missed all three of those 3 things you should do to stay out of poverty. She got pregnant young, and when she went to school pregnant and then after the baby got so much grief she dropped out. She then sucked it up, got her GED, moved out and put herself through school with very little help from us, but plenty of hard won scholarships, and now has her BS in Nursing and is a labor and delivery nurse. It is what is in the person that determines if they can overcome or not..and it goes back to the old question of nature or nuture..probably mainly both, but there are many cases of someone who had not one positive influence in their lives excelling and plenty of cases of those who have it all, money, solid parents, etc. who trip down the wrong path and never get out of it.
All we can do is what we can do to encourage ours and those we have contact with or support groups that do positive things.
BTW..I have no grief that you pay the lower rate..that is clearly unearned money and was taxed well at the start. Capital Gains income should not be double taxed at the same rate..so no grief from me.

averysmom
01-29-2012, 09:06 AM
I'm surprised that there is so much suprise about these statements:lmao:
Having children are one of the most highest factors for women living in poverty. Single women are among the poorest in all countries. So it stands to reason that having a child young, before you have completed your education is almost going to be increase that risk.

And getting a high school diploma. I don't think it is just the piece of paper, or that having that piece of paper is going to automatically make you smarter than not having it, but rather is shows something to the character of the person. They had to commit to going, everyday (or at least often enough), commit to studying, learning, even if the situation is difficult and commit to finishing what they started. If I was an employer, and I had two candidates, and one dropped out and one graduated, I think I would lean towards the graduate, not because of the paper, but because of what it stands for.

gorams
01-29-2012, 01:59 PM
I don't usually post but I thought it would be interesting to give my point of view. I'm a 27 year old african american woman. I was raised in an upper middle class household. Dad was an engineer for GE, mom was stay at home. Wonderful school district. But at 17 I became pregnant, had my daughter right after I turned 18. My parents offered to support me and my daughter while I finished school. I declined moved out on my own with the help of public assistance and food stamps. And by the time I was 23 I had graduated and went to college and became a nurse. And in Nov. of 2010 I moved into a brand new built from the ground up house, and I have also never been married, and had a child way before 21. So when you see people with food stamps, or on public assistance do not judge, because you do not know where they are going or where they came from. And there are no rules for staying out of poverty. God gives it to you and he can take it away. I'm also a left winger waaaaaay left.


So we should be glad that you didn't take any more tax money? Did you have any embarassment that you made decsions that cost other people money? You actually got rewarded-free food, free college. No surprise that you are way left.

bethy
01-29-2012, 02:43 PM
The first thing that jumped to my mind was divorce, too. My sister just went through it and I was shocked at how emotionally and financially devastating it was. After seeing it up close I was amazed at how many people go through it and how many people survive it.

Also, having a child out of wedlock seems just crazy to me. If you can't or won't commit to marriage with someone why on earth would you commit to having a child with them?

I get that life happens but do recognize that these choices result in pretty difficult consquences sometimes. OTOH no one ever promised that life is all about things being easy all the time.

ilovemk76
01-29-2012, 04:35 PM
http://www.glassdoor.com/Bonuses/Dupont-Bonuses-E215.htm


Salaries in USD United States Average
$5k
$15k

Chemical Engineer

10 Dupont Bonuses
$5,457
$1,000
$18k




So the DuPont Chemical Engineer salaries are in the high 5s and might go over into the start of the 6s.

Did somebody stretch the truth?

leahjade
01-29-2012, 04:38 PM
I'm curious who else got an infraction for their post? The only word in my post that could be considered at all political was "liberal." I only praised Oprah Winfrey for gosh sakes! I wonder if the people who used "left" or "conservative" got sanctioned as well. It seem often on this board that right leaning posts are penalized much more often!

mdsoccermom
01-29-2012, 04:43 PM
I don't usually post but I thought it would be interesting to give my point of view. I'm a 27 year old african american woman. I was raised in an upper middle class household. Dad was an engineer for GE, mom was stay at home. Wonderful school district. But at 17 I became pregnant, had my daughter right after I turned 18. My parents offered to support me and my daughter while I finished school. I declined moved out on my own with the help of public assistance and food stamps. And by the time I was 23 I had graduated and went to college and became a nurse. And in Nov. of 2010 I moved into a brand new built from the ground up house, and I have also never been married, and had a child way before 21. So when you see people with food stamps, or on public assistance do not judge, because you do not know where they are going or where they came from. And there are no rules for staying out of poverty. God gives it to you and he can take it away. I'm also a left winger waaaaaay left.


So we should be glad that you didn't take any more tax money? Did you have any embarassment that you made decsions that cost other people money? You actually got rewarded-free food, free college. No surprise that you are way left.

Sorry. I have a lot of problems with people who make a conscious, deliberate decision to live a lifestyle that requires them to be on public assistance.

Muushka
01-29-2012, 04:51 PM
I'm curious who else got an infraction for their post? The only word in my post that could be considered at all political was "liberal." I only praised Oprah Winfrey for gosh sakes! I wonder if the people who used "left" or "conservative" got sanctioned as well. It seem often on this board that right leaning posts are penalized much more often!

I got one. First time. Trying to comply.......biting tongue......:scared1:

carrie1626
01-29-2012, 04:51 PM
Well - for some people it's just not that easy.

Graduating from high school is not too hard for some, almost impossible for others. Some kids are living in incredibly chaotic and dysfunctional households, where there is nowhere to study (and they can't go somewhere else because they are looking after younger siblings while their parents are working), nobody to wake them up for school in the morning, nobody to make sure they get nutritious meals. They may have learning disabilities (or brain damage caused by the drugs/alcohol their mothers used during the pregnancy) so that school is very tough for them, and their school may not do much to help. They may have to work long hours because the family needs the income.

And, sure, having a full-time job (ideally with good benefits) is the goal of many people, but for some it's a tough goal to achieve. There are many reasons why people don't get hired and not all of them are things the person can change.

My tips for not being poor would be: be born into a middle-class or wealthy family, with caring parents, who can give you a good start in life.

Teresa

The essence of perpetual poverty. :sad2: blame someone else :(

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're giving alot of people an excuse- YES, an excuse.
Nothing changes IF NOTHING CHANGES.

mjbaby
01-29-2012, 05:45 PM
I have to confess, I'm a little confused. Many posters have said "there are many tools to help people graduate and lift themselves out of poverty" and then someone says that she, herself, availed herself of those very tools and now she's being vilified? She used those "tools" as intended - to feed and house her while gaining skills required to provide a living and life to her family. The end. That she declined her parents' offer really says nothing - perhaps that offer came with strings that might have impeded her eventual independence? Who knows, but the bottom line is that she did what people on this very thread said should be possible for everyone.

On another topic, it seems to me that people have a hard time attributing any portion of their good fortune (in social class, in "choosing" the right parents or country in which to be born) or success at dodging pitfalls to luck. There's something about human psychology that wants to believe that we have earned everything that we have. But, like the students lucky enough to have a teacher to wake them up every day, so much of life is the luck of the draw. What of the teachers who pass everyone no matter what? What of medical issues that go untreated? When we have bad luck, it's skills innate (or not) to us individually that makes the difference (another bit of luck - is your DNA up for the job of giving you the mindset and skills to work harder than everyone around you?)

I've been lucky: upper-middle class parents who valued education, partially paid-for undergrad, income sufficient for grad, married in mid-20s, kids not until planned for, employed to sufficient levels to provide the same (knock wood - there's that luck thing again) for my kids. My sis wasn't so lucky. We were raised identically, and yet our children are in very different economic circumstances. She made some bad choices - but then again, so have I. My luck meant that none of them impeded my success, as hers did for her.

Luck - including lucky DNA - makes all the difference.

leahjade
01-29-2012, 06:26 PM
That she declined her parents' offer really says nothing - perhaps that offer came with strings that might have impeded her eventual independence?

That's not independence when you are just having the government support you instead of your parents!

mjbaby
01-29-2012, 06:38 PM
That's not independence when you are just having the government support you instead of your parents!

Agreed. Hence the words eventual independence that I used.

I'm truly curious. If one is not to utilize public support, then exactly of what resources to guarantee graduation and lack of poverty are we speaking? If there are NO excuses for not graduating because there is so much "help" available - as several posters on this thread have asserted - but no one is ever supposed to rely on government assistance (however temporarily), then what help is everyone referencing?

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm truly curious. I don't understand the assertion that there's abundant help for all to get and/or stay out of poverty on the one hand existing simultaneously with the idea on the other hand that any period of time receiving assistance is shameful. What help is it that's abundant, easy to access, and NOT public? It can't be family, because it's pretty obvious that familial resources are fairly spotty in many circumstances. So...not public, not family, then what?

lizabu
01-29-2012, 07:17 PM
I have to confess, I'm a little confused. Many posters have said "there are many tools to help people graduate and lift themselves out of poverty" and then someone says that she, herself, availed herself of those very tools and now she's being vilified? She used those "tools" as intended - to feed and house her while gaining skills required to provide a living and life to her family. The end. That she declined her parents' offer really says nothing - perhaps that offer came with strings that might have impeded her eventual independence? Who knows, but the bottom line is that she did what people on this very thread said should be possible for everyone.

On another topic, it seems to me that people have a hard time attributing any portion of their good fortune (in social class, in "choosing" the right parents or country in which to be born) or success at dodging pitfalls to luck. There's something about human psychology that wants to believe that we have earned everything that we have. But, like the students lucky enough to have a teacher to wake them up every day, so much of life is the luck of the draw. What of the teachers who pass everyone no matter what? What of medical issues that go untreated? When we have bad luck, it's skills innate (or not) to us individually that makes the difference (another bit of luck - is your DNA up for the job of giving you the mindset and skills to work harder than everyone around you?)

I've been lucky: upper-middle class parents who valued education, partially paid-for undergrad, income sufficient for grad, married in mid-20s, kids not until planned for, employed to sufficient levels to provide the same (knock wood - there's that luck thing again) for my kids. My sis wasn't so lucky. We were raised identically, and yet our children are in very different economic circumstances. She made some bad choices - but then again, so have I. My luck meant that none of them impeded my success, as hers did for her.

Luck - including lucky DNA - makes all the difference.

I have to agree that luck has a lot to do with it. Just being born in North America gives us such a head start. Some people in this world are lucky to survive childhood without dying from malnutrition or some disease. Many people never have anyone teach them to read or are sold into slavery. To be born into a country that values children and values education makes us very lucky. If you have all that plus a family that loves you and doesn't abuse you and a roof over your head and enough food to eat you are already much luckier than many in our world. Having too much can be a curse too though. There are those who never value hard word and believe the world owes them something. I think if you fall somewhere in the middle of too much and not enough you are very lucky.

luvsJack
01-29-2012, 08:08 PM
Sorry. I have a lot of problems with people who make a conscious, deliberate decision to live a lifestyle that requires them to be on public assistance.

She made the conscious, deliberate decision to use the tools the government gives to get herself to a better place. She used those tools in the right way so that she is NOT in poverty for the rest of her life.

I made the conscious, deliberate decision to get out of a bad marriage knowing full well that I would have to go on government assistance until I could make things better. That assistance was a means to an end.


That's not independence when you are just having the government support you instead of your parents!

Again, she used that assistance in the way it was meant. She has a lot of reasons to be proud of herself.

I think its ridiculous to down someone for doing what that poster did.

nunzia
01-30-2012, 07:28 AM
I don't usually post but I thought it would be interesting to give my point of view. I'm a 27 year old african american woman. I was raised in an upper middle class household. Dad was an engineer for GE, mom was stay at home. Wonderful school district. But at 17 I became pregnant, had my daughter right after I turned 18. My parents offered to support me and my daughter while I finished school. I declined moved out on my own with the help of public assistance and food stamps. And by the time I was 23 I had graduated and went to college and became a nurse. And in Nov. of 2010 I moved into a brand new built from the ground up house, and I have also never been married, and had a child way before 21. So when you see people with food stamps, or on public assistance do not judge, because you do not know where they are going or where they came from. And there are no rules for staying out of poverty. God gives it to you and he can take it away. I'm also a left winger waaaaaay left.


So we should be glad that you didn't take any more tax money? Did you have any embarassment that you made decsions that cost other people money? You actually got rewarded-free food, free college. No surprise that you are way left.

Wow..I have to say I'm a little surprised at some of the posts on this (well, not actually, but still). I think the fact that this gal pulled herself up..yes, with HELP from US is a good thing. OK she could have lived with her parents and mooched off of them, but it doesn't bother me that she used the services of the country as they are meant to be used..which is a temporary hands up instead of a lifetime choice as many do. Those are the ones I have a hard time with..the habitual users.If she had stayed with the parents and mooched off of them she may never have become the strong woman she is now, and one to be such an example to her daughter. I'm pretty right of center, but people who use the services that are out there as a temporary stepping stone do not bother me. What type of services this country can afford (and since we are broke would actually be very sparse) is another discussion and not allowed on this board.

Arabelle
01-30-2012, 07:42 AM
She could have just as easily "pulled herself up" on her parent's buck. She was a minor and their responsibility. Choosing to have other's pay for her child, and her education shows a lack of responsibility.

She wasn't a child with no options which is what public assistance should assist. Last ditch, not some teens chance to play house.

mjbaby
01-30-2012, 11:20 AM
She wasn't a child with no options which is what public assistance should assist. Last ditch, not some teens chance to play house.

But we don't know that, do we? There were two choices: parents' support or not. We don't know the circumstances or conditions attached, only that the poster chose "not". That's it, other than she eventually gained an education and became an independent adult supporting her child. Everything else is conjecture and assumption.

But let's assume for a moment that she did have a wonderful, no-strings, physically and emotionally healthy and appropriate offer from her parents on the table and yet chose public assistance. In this scenario (which has assumed to be the case by several folks here) the poster is judged to have been irresponsible (despite her eventual success). Under what other conditions would someone be permitted to take advantage of the abundant and low- or no-cost poverty-avoidance assistance that has been promoted several times on this thread? Who gets to decide if someone has few enough choices? Who gets to say who has enough or not enough to obtain help to get/stay out of poverty?

ilovemk76
01-30-2012, 11:48 AM
I don't usually post but I thought it would be interesting to give my point of view. I'm a 27 year old african american woman. I was raised in an upper middle class household. Dad was an engineer for GE, mom was stay at home. Wonderful school district. But at 17 I became pregnant, had my daughter right after I turned 18. My parents offered to support me and my daughter while I finished school. I declined moved out on my own with the help of public assistance and food stamps. And by the time I was 23 I had graduated and went to college and became a nurse. And in Nov. of 2010 I moved into a brand new built from the ground up house, and I have also never been married, and had a child way before 21. So when you see people with food stamps, or on public assistance do not judge, because you do not know where they are going or where they came from. And there are no rules for staying out of poverty. God gives it to you and he can take it away. I'm also a left winger waaaaaay left.

Joined June 2009 and has 5 posts.



I don't usually post but I thought it would be interesting to give my point of view. I'm a 27 year old african american woman. I was raised in an upper middle class household. Dad was an engineer for GE, mom was stay at home. Wonderful school district. But at 17 I became pregnant, had my daughter right after I turned 18. My parents offered to support me and my daughter while I finished school. I declined moved out on my own with the help of public assistance and food stamps. And by the time I was 23 I had graduated and went to college and became a nurse. And in Nov. of 2010 I moved into a brand new built from the ground up house, and I have also never been married, and had a child way before 21. So when you see people with food stamps, or on public assistance do not judge, because you do not know where they are going or where they came from. And there are no rules for staying out of poverty. God gives it to you and he can take it away. I'm also a left winger waaaaaay left.


So we should be glad that you didn't take any more tax money? Did you have any embarassment that you made decsions that cost other people money? You actually got rewarded-free food, free college. No surprise that you are way left.



Joined August 2007 and has 11 posts.


I wonder who these two really are.;)

Muushka
01-30-2012, 12:07 PM
I wonder who these two really are.

I have a feeling that the second post was done by someone who doesn't know how to quote someone.
Look at the bottom of the statement, that is the comment, my guess.

Muushka
01-30-2012, 12:23 PM
Ha! Looks like I don't know how to quote either!

ilovemk76
01-30-2012, 12:37 PM
I have a feeling that the second post was done by someone who doesn't know how to quote someone.
Look at the bottom of the statement, that is the comment, my guess.

That makes sense. I got a deja vu moment and then looked for the other.

rockundergirl
01-30-2012, 01:00 PM
I think it mostly has to do with the company you keep. ( by choice or not). What in your "group" is considered acceptable will define a lot of what you will choose to see as good/ bad behavior. Example, growing up most of my friends went away to college, it weighed heavily on my mind. My family could not afford college and I had to start working to help out... but the idea that college was important still stayed with me as I watch my group get educated.. I put myself through local school and got my degree ( took me a long time but I did it ha). I imagine that if I was in a group where college was the exception and not the norm, I probably would have not thought it such a big deal .... I see this about many flaws ( or things most would consider a flaw) like heavy drinkers hang around heavy drinkers... over eaters hang with over eaters. Its like some sort of hive behavior that makes something wrong feel correct because you see others doing / not doing it. IMO

gorams
01-30-2012, 02:16 PM
Joined June 2009 and has 5 posts.







Joined August 2007 and has 11 posts.


I wonder who these two really are.;)

I am just a SAHM and not sure what compelled me to post. I guess I see so much government assistance end up rewarding irresponsible behavior. My kids are still little, I needs to be humble-who knows what they may put me through :-)

Ciao Mickey
01-30-2012, 02:35 PM
She made the conscious, deliberate decision to use the tools the government gives to get herself to a better place. She used those tools in the right way so that she is NOT in poverty for the rest of her life.

I made the conscious, deliberate decision to get out of a bad marriage knowing full well that I would have to go on government assistance until I could make things better. That assistance was a means to an end.




Again, she used that assistance in the way it was meant. She has a lot of reasons to be proud of herself.

I think its ridiculous to down someone for doing what that poster did.

Sorry, but I don't think getting knocked up at 17 and going on welfare is anything to be proud of and I don't think the welfare system was originally set up so that *upper middle class* brats can move out of their parent's house and have the government support them so they can play house on their own.

(BTW, I think the poster is a troll and she/he posted to stir up trouble.)

So in other words another way to stay out of poverty is

1. Get pregnant.

2. Go on welfare.

3. Have the government pay for everything you need. :cool1:

Arabelle
01-30-2012, 02:42 PM
But we don't know that, do we? There were two choices: parents' support or not. We don't know the circumstances or conditions attached, only that the poster chose "not". That's it, other than she eventually gained an education and became an independent adult supporting her child. Everything else is conjecture and assumption.

But let's assume for a moment that she did have a wonderful, no-strings, physically and emotionally healthy and appropriate offer from her parents on the table and yet chose public assistance. In this scenario (which has assumed to be the case by several folks here) the poster is judged to have been irresponsible (despite her eventual success). Under what other conditions would someone be permitted to take advantage of the abundant and low- or no-cost poverty-avoidance assistance that has been promoted several times on this thread? Who gets to decide if someone has few enough choices? Who gets to say who has enough or not enough to obtain help to get/stay out of poverty?

Her parents offered to support her. According to the poster. Obviously no one but the poster gets to decide. It is people like her that use the system because they want to rather than because they need to, that Is so frustrating. Why should it be the taxpayer's responsibility? There were people legally and able to pay for their daughter.

gorams
01-30-2012, 02:49 PM
I have a feeling that the second post was done by someone who doesn't know how to quote someone.
Look at the bottom of the statement, that is the comment, my guess.

Yes that would be me!

nunzia
01-30-2012, 02:57 PM
Her parents offered to support her. According to the poster. Obviously no one but the poster gets to decide. It is people like her that use the system because they want to rather than because they need to, that Is so frustrating. Why should it be the taxpayer's responsibility? There were people legally and able to pay for their daughter.

Sure..that would have been BETTER..but we don't know what the circumstances were. What..people should have to fill out FAFSA type paperwork and only those with no possible family support should get aid? (hmm...maybe that would not be a bad idea..but we are not there)

labdogs42
01-30-2012, 03:11 PM
I just can't figure out why people think it makes sense to post how much money they make (be it 5, 6, or 7 figures) on a public message board. And why they think people shouldn't have opinions about it if they post it. I grew up being taught that money was personal and you never told anyone how much you make. Some people should heed that advice. Telling people how much you make (even in veiled terms) doesn't ever lead to any good. It only causes drama (as evidenced by this thread!).

punkin
01-30-2012, 03:16 PM
I just can't figure out why people think it makes sense to post how much money they make (be it 5, 6, or 7 figures) on a public message board. And why they think people shouldn't have opinions about it if they post it. I grew up being taught that money was personal and you never told anyone how much you make. Some people should heed that advice. Telling people how much you make (even in veiled terms) doesn't ever lead to any good. It only causes drama (as evidenced by this thread!).

DH is a government employee. His salary is a matter of public record. If you know his name...you can look it up. Nothing private here. Sometimes, in the course of a conversation, where it is apropos, I will mention our income. I see nothing wrong with it.

wvjules
01-30-2012, 03:27 PM
I make seven figures. (If you count what comes after the decimal.) :thumbsup2

What is the income guideline for posting on the budget board anyway? This isn't the first thread where someone that may (or may not) have money has been asked why theypost on the BB if they have money?

And the article in the OP didn't say poverty would NEVER happen if you did those three things, just the chance is less. Of course life can, and does, happen but why not atleast try to give youself a headstart.

punkin
01-30-2012, 03:29 PM
I make seven figures. (If you count what comes after the decimal.) :thumbsup2

What is the income guideline for posting on the budget board anyway? This isn't the first thread where someone that may (or may not) have money has been asked why theypost on the BB if they have money?

And the article in the OP didn't say poverty would NEVER happen if you did those three things, just the chance is less. Of course life can, and does, happen but why not atleast try to give youself a headstart.

Good point. Anyone can post on this board...even millionaires want suggestions on saving money.

disney4us2002
01-30-2012, 04:34 PM
Sure..that would have been BETTER..but we don't know what the circumstances were. What..people should have to fill out FAFSA type paperwork and only those with no possible family support should get aid? (hmm...maybe that would not be a bad idea..but we are not there)

I disagree. Numbers mean little. A family with an income of $150,000 may not live as well as another family with an income of $75,000. So many other factors weigh in that income alone means next to nothing. Are you questioning whether someone with a large income would really be posting on the budget board? From everything I read about the wealthy, they got that way and stay that way because they are cheap and fight to keep every penny.

Clearly, there are many very wealthy people here on the Dis. Go to the Community board and read about some people's vacation plans! Wow, there is a lot of money out there (and here, lol).

ilovemk76
01-30-2012, 04:47 PM
Good point. Anyone can post on this board...even millionaires want suggestions on saving money.

Is that real millionaires or fake millionaires?

punkin
01-30-2012, 05:49 PM
Is that real millionaires or fake millionaires?

I don't know since I am neither. As for any other poster on this thread or on this board, I can only go by what I am told. I have no way of verifying either proposition and neither do you. All the sleuthing in the world, the digging up of old posts, the insinuations of lying are ridiculous since nothing can be proven. No one even knows who these people are IRL. For all you know, the poster may be Warren Buffet and the salaried chemist is just an internet persona or the poster may be a welfare queen driving a Cadillac and laughing at all of us.

After all, on the internet, no one knows you're a dog.

http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.html

crisi
01-30-2012, 05:53 PM
I make seven figures. (If you count what comes after the decimal.) :thumbsup2

What is the income guideline for posting on the budget board anyway? This isn't the first thread where someone that may (or may not) have money has been asked why theypost on the BB if they have money?

And the article in the OP didn't say poverty would NEVER happen if you did those three things, just the chance is less. Of course life can, and does, happen but why not atleast try to give youself a headstart.

We should have income limits on both ends - after all, if you are really struggling you have no business being on a Disney board. As well as a zero debt (other than mortgage) requirement - because if you have consumer debt you shouldn't be planning a Disney trip either.

Or, we could assume that people are here under a variety of circumstances to learn, teach and support each other. And that our lives are messy and complex things where one year we get a six figure bonus (happened to us a few years ago) and the next lose our jobs (that hasn't happened to us yet). That some of us grew up in feast or famine households - one summer we were hanging out at the country club pool, a few years later we were living with Grandma "between houses." Messy complex lives are hard to summarize in internet posts.

As to the OP, yep - stats have shown that over and over again. Along with "don't get divorced" - although I really prefer the advice "pick your partners in love and business wisely - and even after they are picked protect yourself" - we don't always choose whether our spouses will stay.

Another one, don't smoke or drink.


(The only posters around here that really get my goat are the ones that come looking for advice to avert financial calamity, then a year later, are here again, none of the original advice heeded, cable still on, kids still enrolled in expensive dance and private school, and a Deluxe Disney trip within the previous year spread all over their posting history and "we are going to loose our house!" Well, duh!)

Swan4Me
01-31-2012, 06:54 AM
.


(The only posters around here that really get my goat are the ones that come looking for advice to avert financial calamity, then a year later, are here again, none of the original advice heeded, cable still on, kids still enrolled in expensive dance and private school, and a Deluxe Disney trip within the previous year spread all over their posting history and "we are going to loose our house!" Well, duh!)

Its almost a drug to some people on the DIS-their life HAS to have a DELUXE Vaca at WDW:lmao::sad2:

nunzia
01-31-2012, 07:34 AM
I disagree. Numbers mean little. A family with an income of $150,000 may not live as well as another family with an income of $75,000. So many other factors weigh in that income alone means next to nothing. Are you questioning whether someone with a large income would really be posting on the budget board? From everything I read about the wealthy, they got that way and stay that way because they are cheap and fight to keep every penny.

Clearly, there are many very wealthy people here on the Dis. Go to the Community board and read about some people's vacation plans! Wow, there is a lot of money out there (and here, lol).

HUH? I was responding to those who said the poster who had gotten pregnant young and moved out, went on aid and then put herself thorugh school, got a job, etc and then got OFF aid should have lived with her parents instead of taking from the government...I wasn't referring to any conversation dealing with what anyone's inclome or if they should or should not post on the BB..I don't care about that..that conversation has nothing to do with the original question of how people can stay out of poverty :scared1:

disney4us2002
01-31-2012, 08:29 AM
I just can't figure out why people think it makes sense to post how much money they make (be it 5, 6, or 7 figures) on a public message board. And why they think people shouldn't have opinions about it if they post it. I grew up being taught that money was personal and you never told anyone how much you make. Some people should heed that advice. Telling people how much you make (even in veiled terms) doesn't ever lead to any good. It only causes drama (as evidenced by this thread!).


I disagree. Numbers mean little. A family with an income of $150,000 may not live as well as another family with an income of $75,000. So many other factors weigh in that income alone means next to nothing. Are you questioning whether someone with a large income would really be posting on the budget board? From everything I read about the wealthy, they got that way and stay that way because they are cheap and fight to keep every penny.

Clearly, there are many very wealthy people here on the Dis. Go to the Community board and read about some people's vacation plans! Wow, there is a lot of money out there (and here, lol).

disney4us2002
01-31-2012, 08:31 AM
HUH? I was responding to those who said the poster who had gotten pregnant young and moved out, went on aid and then put herself thorugh school, got a job, etc and then got OFF aid should have lived with her parents instead of taking from the government...I wasn't referring to any conversation dealing with what anyone's inclome or if they should or should not post on the BB..I don't care about that..that conversation has nothing to do with the original question of how people can stay out of poverty :scared1:

Sorry. Yours wasn't the one I was trying to quote. The Dis kept messing up for me and timing out so apparently it picked the wrong quote. I mean to quote labdogs as I was replying to her post about why people post their income.

crisi
01-31-2012, 09:32 AM
I disagree. Numbers mean little. A family with an income of $150,000 may not live as well as another family with an income of $75,000. So many other factors weigh in that income alone means next to nothing. Are you questioning whether someone with a large income would really be posting on the budget board? From everything I read about the wealthy, they got that way and stay that way because they are cheap and fight to keep every penny.

Clearly, there are many very wealthy people here on the Dis. Go to the Community board and read about some people's vacation plans! Wow, there is a lot of money out there (and here, lol).

Without understanding the input, the output is meaningless. In a discussion about budget, not understanding the resources each of us starts with leaves us with incomplete understanding

As to the "it's not polite". This is an anonymous Internet message board talking about personal finance. The rules are different. I'd be very cautious about disclosing what I disclose here under my real name, and I've posted purposefully misleading information which would make it difficult to find me in real life. (nothing important, things like where I work.)

nunzia
01-31-2012, 05:00 PM
Sorry. Yours wasn't the one I was trying to quote. The Dis kept messing up for me and timing out so apparently it picked the wrong quote. I mean to quote labdogs as I was replying to her post about why people post their income.

Ah yes..I see that now..makes much more sense :) Yes..things can get screwy here sometimes ...

mks18412
01-31-2012, 05:47 PM
There are some rude people on this board! Why would you care what someone else makes??? ......You dont pay their bills so its no concern of yours....You mean to say that people that are well off shouldnt try to expand their "brand''? I am NOT putting Eliza in the same catagory as Bill Gates and Trump, but they have buttloads of money and continue to expand their companies. People need to STOP being so judgemental!!! If you dont have anything nice to say then dont say anything at all. :flower3:

Why would someone go to the trouble to look up someones income??? Really!?! They have got some time on their hands!

mks18412
01-31-2012, 08:29 PM
When someone states their occupation then states they make 7 figures salary and it is common knowledge that the profession isn't one that generates a Million dollars"???:rolleyes1

So what. You dont know the situation. What if she was left an inheritance, won the lotto, or whatever. Whats the big deal?? :rolleyes:

Swan4Me
01-31-2012, 08:46 PM
There are some rude people on this board! Why would you care what someone else makes??? ......You dont pay their bills so its no concern of yours....You mean to say that people that are well off shouldnt try to expand their "brand''? I am NOT putting Eliza in the same catagory as Bill Gates and Trump, but they have buttloads of money and continue to expand their companies. People need to STOP being so judgemental!!! If you dont have anything nice to say then dont say anything at all. :flower3:

Why would someone go to the trouble to look up someones income??? Really!?! They have got some time on their hands!

When someone states their occupation then states they make 7 figures salary and it is common knowledge that the profession isn't one that generates a Million dollars"???:rolleyes1

ChiCat
02-01-2012, 06:35 AM
Well - for some people it's just not that easy.

Graduating from high school is not too hard for some, almost impossible for others. Some kids are living in incredibly chaotic and dysfunctional households, where there is nowhere to study (and they can't go somewhere else because they are looking after younger siblings while their parents are working), nobody to wake them up for school in the morning, nobody to make sure they get nutritious meals. They may have learning disabilities (or brain damage caused by the drugs/alcohol their mothers used during the pregnancy) so that school is very tough for them, and their school may not do much to help. They may have to work long hours because the family needs the income.

And, sure, having a full-time job (ideally with good benefits) is the goal of many people, but for some it's a tough goal to achieve. There are many reasons why people don't get hired and not all of them are things the person can change.

My tips for not being poor would be: be born into a middle-class or wealthy family, with caring parents, who can give you a good start in life.

Teresa

I have to agree with Teresa. I haven't read the whole thread just the first page but those three things seem very simple but it's not. I came from a very dysfunctional family, my father was a polysubstance abuser (heroin, crack, etc) and my mother is very mentally unstable. I moved out at the age of 16. I was able to graduate high school and college but my brothers have had a tougher time. Both brothers had kids by the age of 16, both live in poverty and never graduated high school. One is a good parent and has a normal, sane life despite being poor. The other is a total hot mess. I've seen several therapists and doctors (psychiatrists) over the years with stuff related to my family and they are all AMAZED how normal I turned out. The last one finally told me that if a child has one normal parent they usually turn out just fine but if they have two parents who are unfit than odds are they will turn out the same way.

So why did I luck out? I have no idea but I'm thankful I was able to get out of poverty cycle.

ETA: I barely graduated high school, my parents did not care if I dropped out. I always thought I was stupid but it wasn't until I almost flunked out of college that a therapist said I think you have ADD. I got put on adderall and went from having Fs to As. If I would have been diagnosed with ADD in high school medication would have never been an option because my mother thinks ALL medicine is poison, anything from tyelnol to blood pressure medication.