XPass

[nancytoby]

I'm an XPass hater already:

"next year's roll-out of the XPass program (which - for a price -- will offer WDW Guests the opportunity to pre-book an entire vacation's worth of rides on the Resort's most popular attractions as well as guaranteeing these high-end customers a primo reserved viewing spot for theme park parades and/or nighttime extravaganzas like Epcot's "Illuminations" and DHS's "Fantasmic!") ."

From http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_chief1/b/jim_hill/archive/2011/12/11/why-disney-world-veterans-aren-t-expecting-to-have-a-very-merry-xpass-in-2012.aspx

[DizCaptain]

Disney experiences are turning more and more each year into a hierarchy based on, what else, money. Pretty soon they'll charge you to watch fireworks based on what land you're in... I swear. I'm sure there are alot of people who see this as cool, but there's nothing wrong with fast pass other than complaints about new guests "not understanding it." I personally consider it something earned, stampeding to the kiosk in the morning and grabbing the fast pass, and of course, the less who know about it the better :laughing: this whole booking thing is a disaster waiting to happen imho.

[nytimez]

This part sounds even worse:


That said, things might get a little awkward on attractions like "it's a small world" (where people who have booked the XPass vacation package will - prior to their arrival in Orlando - then be able to go online and build their very own customized Mary Blair-esque doll. Who will then appear on a flat screen in "it's a small world" 's finale sequence and dance for & wave to the Guest who actually created this doll). When there's a boatload of tourists experiencing this attraction together. And this CG "it's a small world" doll zeroes in on a single Guest and then only interacts with them.

[Faldred]

Consider the source... isn't Jim Hill the guy who posts bogus Disney rumors on a regular basis?

[ASteelersMidget]

Consider the source... isn't Jim Hill the guy who posts bogus Disney rumors on a regular basis?

I sure hope it isn't true. It would be potentially the worst screw up I can remember in Disney's park history.

[nytimez]

Jim Hill has hits and misses. Time will tell which category this falls into...

[GrnMtnMan]

Is there a 'master' article where he talks more in-depth about Xpass? I have heard about the *idea* of NextGen, but his discussion of Xpass begs for a deeper discussion of what it's going to be.

[Faldred]

The main reason I disbelieve this is that WDW already has the premium VIP tours, which offer most of the same benefits (sans the need to plan ahead). Why would they need this "XPass"?

The whole "insert yourself into IaSW" thing makes me even more skeptical.

[GrnMtnMan]

The main reason I disbelieve this is that WDW already has the premium VIP tours, which offer most of the same benefits (sans the need to plan ahead). Why would they need this "XPass"?

Why? I've personally paid for FOTL at several theme-parks and have stayed on-Site at Universal to get the Express Access.

The Disney offerings for VIP treatment are not justifiable to my budget (more than $1,000 for a family a day). The extra $100 to $300 a day I've paid for my family to have a leisurely experience at other parks has been do-able.

Disney needs this mid-tier/semi-VIP level to be competitive.

[doconeill]

Jim Hill seems to have access to a lot of the "blue sky" plans that get dreamed up, but very rarely see the light of day. This could be based on early ideas and supposition on how XPass will work...true details of which have not been released, and I've heard no corroborating evidence or rumors.

Seriously...was there actually an increase in fistfights in 1999 over Fastpasses?

[GrnMtnMan]

I've heard no corroborating evidence or rumors.
Tom Staggs has openly spoken of NextGen (http://corporate.disney.go.com/news/parks_resorts/WDPR%20-%20Tom%20Staggs%20-%20Investor%20Conference.pdf) and has specifically mentioned how guests could plan their say, down to scheduling rides, when they book their vacation.

we are currently developing an innovative system that will, in essence, create a version of FASTPASS for their entire Disney vacations. Now we define the guest experience as beginning from the time a potential guest sits down at a computer or picks up a phone to make a reservation. Our new tools will help them better understand all that we have to offer and better plan their time with us. They’ll be able to create a personalized itinerary that gives them the exact Disney vacation they want.

Guests will be able to reserve times for their favorite attractions and character interactions… secure seats at our shows and spectaculars… make dining reservations… and pre-book many other favorite guest experiences – all before even leaving their house

I recall hearing that several billion has been dedicated to implementing NexGen...maybe now known as Xpass.

[doconeill]

Tom Staggs has openly spoken of NextGen (http://corporate.disney.go.com/news/parks_resorts/WDPR%20-%20Tom%20Staggs%20-%20Investor%20Conference.pdf) and has specifically mentioned how guests could plan their say, down to scheduling rides, when they book their vacation.

Which doesn't say that it is a premium upcharge service, or exactly how the system works, or anything like what Jim Hill mentions. Basically, he only mentions that you can use it to plan certain aspects of a trip ahead much like making ADRs.


I recall hearing that several billion has been dedicated to implementing NexGen...maybe now known as Xpass.

NexGen is many things, some of which we've already seen - new virtual queue ideas like was tested at RNRC, more queue interactivity like the new HM queue, etc. XPass is likely just another aspect of it.

[tjkraz]

Don't really get why Disney fans seem so fearful of change. :confused3 The specifics will be tested, adjusted, massaged, reworked and otherwise altered a dozen times over.

Some aspects of park touring may be negatively impacted but based upon everything I have heard, it will easily be a net gain.

This part sounds even worse:


That said, things might get a little awkward on attractions like "it's a small world" (where people who have booked the XPass vacation package will - prior to their arrival in Orlando - then be able to go online and build their very own customized Mary Blair-esque doll. Who will then appear on a flat screen in "it's a small world" 's finale sequence and dance for & wave to the Guest who actually created this doll). When there's a boatload of tourists experiencing this attraction together. And this CG "it's a small world" doll zeroes in on a single Guest and then only interacts with them.

Really?

When a parade float rolls by and Goofy specifically points and waves at a guest 10' to your right, do you feel slighted?

IMO Hill really missed the mark with this passage. Just because dolls are dancing and waving on a video screen doesn't mean they will be singling out a guest. As great as the RFID technology appears, I have my doubts that designers could (or would) have a video rendering accurately seek out one guest out of 15-20 in a moving boat.

[OKW Lover]

I'd think its a bit early to start hating XPass. Lets at least give somebody a chance to see it "in the wild" as it were. Rumors are one thing, actual practice might be something else.

Even after it does get introduced, I'm sure there will be a bunch of "fine tuning" that Disney will find necessary over time depending on how its implemented and how guests react in real life (as opposed to DIS life). :surfweb:

[ASteelersMidget]

I think the majority of you are missing the point. this is still a rumor. Let's wait to discuss whether it will work or not once it is officially announced from Disney. At this point it is rumored specifics of something we know in some form or fashion will happen. I believe we need to treat it as such.

[nytimez]

Don't really get why Disney fans seem so fearful of change. :confused3 The specifics will be tested, adjusted, massaged, reworked and otherwise altered a dozen times over.

Some aspects of park touring may be negatively impacted but based upon everything I have heard, it will easily be a net gain.



Really?

When a parade float rolls by and Goofy specifically points and waves at a guest 10' to your right, do you feel slighted?

IMO Hill really missed the mark with this passage. Just because dolls are dancing and waving on a video screen doesn't mean they will be singling out a guest. As great as the RFID technology appears, I have my doubts that designers could (or would) have a video rendering accurately seek out one guest out of 15-20 in a moving boat.


Not sure how you can say Hill missed the mark "in your opinion." It's either accurate or not -- not really a matter for opinion. Either we will see this happen, or we won't -- and personally, I don't think Jim Hill or you have the definitive inside track on what will happen.

However, as described, the plan as envisioned with "small world" is quite a bit different from Goofy randomly waving to people at a parade, and I think most people will recognize that.

You might have your doubts about the Imagineers and their ability to pull this off, but I'll reserve judgement until I see the finished product.

[tjkraz]

However, as described, the plan as envisioned with "small world" is quite a bit different from Goofy randomly waving to people at a parade...


In what way?

EDIT: With regard to the previous passage, it's my opinion that Hill sensationalized this aspect of the changes or order to gardner a bit more attention (and the accompanying hand-wringing) from Disney fanatics. Based upon my knowledge of the situation, I have no reason to believe that these interactive elements will go out of their way to engage one guest above-and-beyond all others.

[FWDisneyfan]

I just re-read the Tom Staggs Investor speech and it doesn't appear to me that FastPass is necessarily going away, they are looking @ tweaking it and adding a new option. I think making it a pay only option would be foolish and I don't think the Disney brass will make a foolish choice. (At least I hope not)

[anthony2k7]

Not sure how you can say Hill missed the mark "in your opinion." It's either accurate or not -- not really a matter for opinion. Either we will see this happen, or we won't -- and personally, I don't think Jim Hill or you have the definitive inside track on what will happen.

However, as described, the plan as envisioned with "small world" is quite a bit different from Goofy randomly waving to people at a parade, and I think most people will recognize that.

You might have your doubts about the Imagineers and their ability to pull this off, but I'll reserve judgement until I see the finished product.

I think Hill is basing his article on some of the blue sky thinking still going on in Disney about this project. I don't doubt that all of what he says is planned. Equally I dont doubt that its all technically possible - even for Disney's Imagineers and their recent lack of creativity!

However, I think the practicality of all this will be a different matter. The issues already raised about sectioning off a big area of the parade route etc. Also the costs involved - the small world changes alone sound expenses depending how elegant the solution is. How will they track where the XPass people sit in the boats - each boat will need RFID readers I assume, maybe even each seat? Will Disney really go ahead and spend that much money at the moment?

Also, I was under the impression the Epcot RFID turnstyles trial was less than successful?

[nytimez]

I think Hill is basing his article on some of the blue sky thinking still going on in Disney about this project. I don't doubt that all of what he says is planned. Equally I dont doubt that its all technically possible - even for Disney's Imagineers and their recent lack of creativity!

However, I think the practicality of all this will be a different matter. The issues already raised about sectioning off a big area of the parade route etc. Also the costs involved - the small world changes alone sound expenses depending how elegant the solution is. How will they track where the XPass people sit in the boats - each boat will need RFID readers I assume, maybe even each seat? Will Disney really go ahead and spend that much money at the moment?

Also, I was under the impression the Epcot RFID turnstyles trial was less than successful?

Agreed.

As for RFID, I haven't heard too much -- but I think you launch a trial like that on a limited and off-the-beaten path location (back gate as Epcot has the lowest foot traffic of any park entrance) knowing there will be problems, bugs and other kinks... then you tweak/change the system based on how it operates in that real-world test.

[doconeill]

I haven't heard either way if the RFID test was a success or failure. I don't think it was intended to be the final system, but it was a trial of another system, similar to the no-turnstile barcode scanning done earlier this year. They've at least received a lot of feedback as to to how it worked, and a lot of adjustments can be made.

[Azrael]

Whn I'm on vacation, I don't want to have to plan when to eat, where to eat, which park to be in on any given day, etc. I don't understand why Disney execs feel that this is something that people want.
Vacation should be just that-VACATION.

[anthony2k7]

Whn I'm on vacation, I don't want to have to plan when to eat, where to eat, which park to be in on any given day, etc. I don't understand why Disney execs feel that this is something that people want.
Vacation should be just that-VACATION.

i think you're in the minority on this one. generally people on here seem to love planning every detail. plus, I know in park surveys have asked how much people plan as well.

[nancytoby]

I don't have a problem with planning.

I do have a problem with people being able to buy their way past the turnstyles and pay for a superior in-park experience at WDW. Whether I would do it or not depends on pricing, but my suspicion is that it would be quite costly. I just don't like to see WDW pricing itself into territory that the average middle-class American can only afford for a "once in a lifetime" trip.

[tjkraz]

I do have a problem with people being able to buy their way past the turnstyles and pay for a superior in-park experience at WDW. Whether I would do it or not depends on pricing, but my suspicion is that it would be quite costly. I just don't like to see WDW pricing itself into territory that the average middle-class American can only afford for a "once in a lifetime" trip.

Do you really think that Disney would price these add-ons such that it would stretch people's budgets from multiple times per lifetime to once in a lifetime?

[ASteelersMidget]

Yet again I feel it must be known that as of right now these specifics are not confirmed. so take them with a grain of salt.

[nancytoby]

Do you really think that Disney would price these add-ons such that it would stretch people's budgets from multiple times per lifetime to once in a lifetime?

No, I don't think that one add-on would make the difference. It's a cumulative effect, of course.

I don't know the exact numbers but I'd guesstimate that an average 1-week visit to WDW is well over 10% of the median US household income right now. Anyone have the figures?

[tjkraz]

No, I don't think that one add-on would make the difference. It's a cumulative effect, of course.

I don't know the exact numbers but I'd guesstimate that an average 1-week visit to WDW is well over 10% of the median US household income right now. Anyone have the figures?

There are many different approaches to a Walt Disney World vacation...and have always been. Every day countless guests drive hundreds of miles (instead of flying), pay meager sums to stay off I-Drive and eat their own PB&J sandwiches for lunch instead of dining at Cinderella's Royal Table.

Paying extra for unique in-park experiences is somewhat unique. (I say "somewhat" because they've had variations of immediate FASTPASS cards for years, along with behind-the-scenes tours, personal tour guides, etc.) Hard to evaluate the impact on other guests without any confirmed details.

But even if Jim Hill's overview comes to be, everything is still optional. There is no mandate to pay extra in order to reserve ride times or parade viewing space. Guests will still have amazing trips without being obligated to pay those extra charges.

[stashbin]

I like the part in the article that says it will only be available to the deluxe resort customers at first. That means poor folks like me that have to stay in the value resorts will have to use the regular ole fastpass system. :rolleyes:

[Disco]

No, I don't think that one add-on would make the difference. It's a cumulative effect, of course.

I don't know the exact numbers but I'd guesstimate that an average 1-week visit to WDW is well over 10% of the median US household income right now. Anyone have the figures?

Well the median household income is about $50k right now. I think it shrunk to $48k actually with the recession but let’s just say give or take a couple thousand.
$5000 is a little high for me even with a family of 4. However, factor in food and airfare and you may be just about right. I can't afford WDW anymore so I don't go as often. However I've replaced with trips to DL because I can drive to it which makes it cheaper (not by much though). Either way net loss in revenue for Disney (only spend 3 days in DL vs. a week in WDW) but that is partially due to higher inflation (airfare, gas and food). People are making less and costs have gone up for just about everything.

[skier_pete]

Agreed.

As for RFID, I haven't heard too much -- but I think you launch a trial like that on a limited and off-the-beaten path location (back gate as Epcot has the lowest foot traffic of any park entrance) knowing there will be problems, bugs and other kinks... then you tweak/change the system based on how it operates in that real-world test.

Kind of off the main topic - but I wanted to comment on the RFID test at Epcot, since we got to participate in it. #1 is was NOT at the back gate, but at the main gate. #2 when we were there anyways (11/16) it did NOT go smooth. There were about 10 people in front of us and it took about 5 minutes to get through the gate. When you are there early in the morning, you really don't want to spend your time standing at the gate...so I was getting annoyed. Then we got up, and the sensor worked for 2 of our party, but not for the other 2. So, unless they eventually got it working better, the trial should not be considered a "success".

I am not thrilled with the idea of having a pay-for-premium xpass/FP, but as long as they limit the # that are available each day in each park, and they keep the availability of a free FP then I am OK. The whole idea of having to pay extra so that I can wait in shorter lines just pisses me off a LOT, and I am not one to complain about the changes Disney implements. (One reason I've been in no hurry at all to go back to Universal.) Part of why I don't understand constant whining about FP is that there is no extra cost to it and it is a system that is been in place for a while. Either use it or don't use it. If they charge me to extra to use it, you better believe I'll be *****ing.

[mcd2745]

Whn I'm on vacation, I don't want to have to plan when to eat, where to eat, which park to be in on any given day, etc. I don't understand why Disney execs feel that this is something that people want.
Vacation should be just that-VACATION.

i think you're in the minority on this one. generally people on here seem to love planning every detail. plus, I know in park surveys have asked how much people plan as well.



Here on the DIS, there is little doubt that a vast majority like to plan every detail - right down to their bathroom breaks it seems. Is that the majority overall for all WDW guests? Probably not. It does seem to me however, that for whatever reason, that the ultra-planners as a group seem to have Disney's "ear" more than anyone else. Why else would there be a 180-day window to make ADRs?

[doconeill]

Here on the DIS, there is little doubt that a vast majority like to plan every detail - right down to their bathroom breaks it seems. Is that the majority overall for all WDW guests? Probably not. It does seem to me however, that for whatever reason, that the ultra-planners as a group seem to have Disney's "ear" more than anyone else. Why else would there be a 180-day window to make ADRs?

Disney basically made getting ADRs a requirement through a whole lot of things, not the least of which was the dining plans (and especially free dining). If you wanted to sit down and be waited on at the restaurant of your choice, you needed to get an ADR, because the restaurant would be full. Didn't really have a lot to do with ultra-planners. It just snowballed.

Disney did cut back the ADR time to 90 days for a while, but went back up to 180 days. I think it was to dilute the callers better as fewer guests would be ready to call right at the 180 mark than the 90 mark.

[DisneyGoerGurl]

meh. kind of takes the fun out of trying to get the best spot... and it kind of makes disney seem greedy :/ i understand they're a company and their goal is to make money, which is understandable, but... really? it's a bit too much, imo.

[yitbos96bb]

Disney experiences are turning more and more each year into a hierarchy based on, what else, money. Pretty soon they'll charge you to watch fireworks based on what land you're in... I swear. I'm sure there are alot of people who see this as cool, but there's nothing wrong with fast pass other than complaints about new guests "not understanding it." I personally consider it something earned, stampeding to the kiosk in the morning and grabbing the fast pass, and of course, the less who know about it the better :laughing: this whole booking thing is a disaster waiting to happen imho.

Except what you describe is dangerous with people getting hurt in models like that with idiots pushin their way to a fast pass. Park sizing is probably one of the few reasons we avent seen a real. Tragedy like what has happened at lack Friday sales with people getting trampled to death.

[yitbos96bb]

Disney basically made getting ADRs a requirement through a whole lot of things, not the least of which was the dining plans (and especially free dining). If you wanted to sit down and be waited on at the restaurant of your choice, you needed to get an ADR, because the restaurant would be full. Didn't really have a lot to do with ultra-planners. It just snowballed.

Disney did cut back the ADR time to 90 days for a while, but went back up to 180 days. I think it was to dilute the callers better as fewer guests would be ready to call right at the 180 mark than the 90 mark.

The new solution of charging for peope who don't show up I think will help this

[I<3theMouse]

I have been lax in keeping up with Disney news since our trip over Thanksgiving (probably since i know it will be at least a year or more like two years before we can return) Imagine my surprise when I caught a blog about Xpass?!
I'm one of those "ultra-planners", though the rest of the family is much more "go with the flow". My hubby was pretty darn impressed with my Disney planning for our recent trip (and especially with the dining reservations I planned out) :wizard:. He actually acknowledged how much better our vacation went due to all my planning ahead.
Personally, I think it's pretty hard to get the most of a WDW trip without doing your homework. :goodvibes
We don't have the means to really stay deluxe, and the Xpass would probably be out of our price range too. However, if the current Fast Pass system remains in place, in addition to Xpass, I don't see that it will negatively affect my Disney experience.

[Virtucomp]

I would enjoy having RFID to make the park more interactive. I can see a time when you walk up to an attraction and the preshow interacts with people directly by recognizing who is there. I can also see where characters know the child's first name so they can personalize the experience. Kids would love it.

As PP have said, If the current FP systems stays and they add a special fee for people who want to pre-select fast passes then thats fine with me. If I don't want to pay they the park stays the same as now. I would expect that many people would not spend the extra anyway so the number would be limited.

During the Give a Day Get A Day promo we got cards for fast passes. They only added a few extra passes to what we could get under the normal system but I found it a nice extra. If you could pay a little more and get one of the cards it would just make the trip a little better. The passes were limited to three big rides and three smaller ones so no real harm done.

[AuntieSkadoo]

not sure I got all of the info on this...but from what I have seen, it seems as though only guests in the DELUXE resorts will benefit as it will only be offered to them....

meaning everyone else will have to wait in line as the people with more money get to go on ahead bc there will no longer be a fastpass system for the rest of us?

I rly hope I didnt hear all of the story....or at least messed it up...Bc I do not like what Ive heard so far!

[doconeill]

not sure I got all of the info on this...but from what I have seen, it seems as though only guests in the DELUXE resorts will benefit as it will only be offered to them....

meaning everyone else will have to wait in line as the people with more money get to go on ahead bc there will no longer be a fastpass system for the rest of us?

I rly hope I didnt hear all of the story....or at least messed it up...Bc I do not like what Ive heard so far!

That it will be limited only to Deluxe resort guests I believe speculation that Jim Hill reported as fact, making it seem if that's the end story.

I can see this being rolled out gradually, FIRST to Deluxe guests and rolling in once they get a handle on it.

And there is no reason right now to believe it is replacing the Fastpass system, but can co-exist with it.

[AuntieSkadoo]

I forget where I read it, but it said it will be replacing the fastpass system...so that there will only be the XPASS

[doconeill]

I forget where I read it, but it said it will be replacing the fastpass system...so that there will only be the XPASS

Just so you know, just because you've read it, doesn't make it true. :)

Disney has said very little about XPass...and I mean VERY little.

[tjkraz]

We also don't know exactly how Disney will charge guests for the option.

Disney's Magical Express is marketed as "free" but every resort guest pays for the service bundled into their room rates. WDW transportation (buses, boats, monorails) is "free" but guests pay for it via their ticket purchases.

Disney has been looking for a way to wean resort guests off of 20-25% discounts and "free dining" since the economy tanked in 2008. I can think of no better way than offering enhanced FASTPASS features for "free" to resort guests, while gradually charging higher rates to those staying in the rooms.

A lot of it may depend upon how much guest usage the FP system can support.

But all pricing discussion--including my own comments above--is purely speculative at this point.