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View Full Version : RE: the debate about the new cancellation/no-show policy: for or against?


mcd2745
10-16-2011, 11:14 AM
Let's try to put some numbers to this debate/discussion. Let's see the percentages for and against.


And whether you're for or against, if you wish, you can lay out the framework of what you feel is the ideal system for ADRs from start to finish.


To me, the ideal system would look something like this:



ADR window is 45 days for on-site guests, 30 days for off-site guests
Each ADR requires a $10 "deposit" that goes toward the balance of your meal. If you're on the DP, then it goes toward the tip or anything else not covered by the plan. (BTW, I would give you a "cart" so that you only would have to enter CC one time.)
The deposit can be transferred to another ADR if you switch to another restaurant and/or time for the same meal.
If you just flat out cancel the ADR, up to12 hours prior to your ADR time, you lose the $10 fee.
If you cancel less than 12 hours or no-show, you are charged an additional fee of $10 PP.

MikeSF
10-16-2011, 11:43 AM
For me the ideal ADR is a 24-48 hour window. Beyond that seems silly, ok MAYBE a week if you're staying at a resort for a long period.

or

Maximum of 50% ADR reservation, the rest for walk ups.

No overlapping of ADRs
No multiple ADRs for one place
No cancellation fees
Perhaps even limit it to 1 dinner, 1 lunch, 1 breakfast res per person.

wdw4rfam
10-16-2011, 11:53 AM
Like the idea of a penalty for those who make multiples, and just use the ones they want. But it still leaves out the possibility that someone will get sick. I know it doesn't happen a lot, but it happened to us on the monorail to CM for dinner. DD got sick all over me, her, etc. With NO prior symptoms, any amount of time 12 or 24 hours, wouldn't have helped me. I am not sure what solution is good, as those who wish will find a way around any policy. This is silly anyways as some only have debit cards or no credit card at all. An authorization 180 days out on a credit card isn't going to mean that that card is still active or available at the time of reservation. There are many ways that people will get around this too.....Plus I just dont get the big deal, because even if you cancel an hour before, they will give it to a walk up or someone trying to make a last minute ADR. So why not just charge for JUST no- shows???

wdw4rfam
10-16-2011, 11:56 AM
For me the ideal ADR is a 24-48 hour window. Beyond that seems silly, ok MAYBE a week if you're staying at a resort for a long period.

or

Maximum of 50% ADR reservation, the rest for walk ups.

No overlapping of ADRs
No multiple ADRs for one place
No cancellation fees
Perhaps even limit it to 1 dinner, 1 lunch, 1 breakfast res per person.

Can you imagine the phone lines at peak times if you had to wait untill 24 hours before? Yikes. Or better yet getting all the way to WDW after months of anticipation to find hour lines at all attractions, and not have any dinners available also?

MikeSF
10-16-2011, 12:09 PM
Can you imagine the phone lines at peak times if you had to wait untill 24 hours before? Yikes.
That's what online reservation systems are for, you click a time and it "holds" it for 5 minutes for you to confirm or something. And yes I know those can get bogged down, I've tried to get World Series tickets before ;)

Or better yet getting all the way to WDW after months of anticipation to find hour lines at all attractions, and not have any dinners available also?
Well from my view (and please realize this is simply how I feel), I planned a vacation, room and flight and then am hammered with the fact that I also need to make dinner plans 5 months out which means I now have to micromanage which parks I go to on what particular days because I'm "cheap" and didn't opt for a park hopper pass. Someone could very easily plan a vacation at a budget motel, drive down, pick up tickets to a park, and not even know about ADRs and then they'd be ones without dinner.

Also it would give a favor to those who maybe arrive a little early for dinner, and too be honest if I'm told there's an hour long wait I might choose a different place to eat.

My idea still has ADR seats for those who want to plan way out (I did put an OR in there for my choices ;)), but still allow those who don't plan so far out a chance to eat at a sit down. Perhaps even tweak percentages of ADR seats for special "magical" experiences (Shows, Character dining, etc).

TiggerTrigger
10-16-2011, 12:30 PM
While I like the idea and understand it needs some teeth to make it effective, I think it needs some modification. I know most of the no shows are people abusing the system, but if someone gets hurt or sick to the point where they can't go anywhere or you experience massive airline delays being charged a no show charge per head seems pretty bad...especially since ADRs aren't true reservations. i.e. they don't actually hold a table for you and walk ins could be seated ahead of you at any given time...meaning it's not like there's ever really a lull in the tables being seated. It just sounds pretty obnoxious to think I could get charged $40 for being a no show if I have a long flight delay or a child too sick to be out of bed.

wdw4rfam
10-16-2011, 12:48 PM
That's what online reservation systems are for, you click a time and it "holds" it for 5 minutes for you to confirm or something. And yes I know those can get bogged down, I've tried to get World Series tickets before ;)


Well from my view (and please realize this is simply how I feel), I planned a vacation, room and flight and then am hammered with the fact that I also need to make dinner plans 5 months out which means I now have to micromanage which parks I go to on what particular days because I'm "cheap" and didn't opt for a park hopper pass. Someone could very easily plan a vacation at a budget motel, drive down, pick up tickets to a park, and not even know about ADRs and then they'd be ones without dinner.

Also it would give a favor to those who maybe arrive a little early for dinner, and too be honest if I'm told there's an hour long wait I might choose a different place to eat.

My idea still has ADR seats for those who want to plan way out (I did put an OR in there for my choices ;)), but still allow those who don't plan so far out a chance to eat at a sit down. Perhaps even tweak percentages of ADR seats for special "magical" experiences (Shows, Character dining, etc).

Dont get me wrong, I wasn't bashing your idea, just bringing up problems it would cause possibly. Trust me, I have had a couple of times where last minute trips were possible, but we passed because we knew we'd never get any ADR's. I am just saying, our kids look forward to character dinners so much, that if I wasn't guaranteed a reservation, I would probably pass on the entire trip, and would not want to make the phone calls every day or have to hurry back to our room to make tomorrows ADR.

Skyw
10-16-2011, 02:18 PM
I remember calling in the morning for a reservation that evening. That was 1995. I miss those days. It is hard to plan where I am going to want to eat 6 months out. Hope this opens up some reservations for those people who don't get the word and arrive at WDW with no ressies and they are on the dining plan. :)

reisdawg
10-16-2011, 02:28 PM
That's what online reservation systems are for, you click a time and it "holds" it for 5 minutes for you to confirm or something. And yes I know those can get bogged down, I've tried to get World Series tickets before ;)


using this logic, why do we reserve tickets to the world series? Let's just keep all the seats open in case you decide you want to go?

I am a planner and I don't always get the places I want to eat. I would find it a terrible experience if I had to plan my meals ever day of the trip and don't understand why those who don't want to plan feel a need to get all the benefits of those who do plan. If you don't want to set up all your meals then fine. The impact is that some places are going to not be available to you.

MikeSF
10-16-2011, 03:10 PM
using this logic, why do we reserve tickets to the world series? Let's just keep all the seats open in case you decide you want to go?
Different logic that what I was doing, but I'll play along. Why can't I get World Series tickets now? Just in case "my team" gets in? Because there is a particular window, as small as it might be, that allows you to get reservations for an event... and FYI actually buying said "reservation" is a whole lot different than just saying "I want it, hold it for me", because in the first case you made a monetary commitment.



I am a planner and I don't always get the places I want to eat. I would find it a terrible experience if I had to plan my meals ever day of the trip and don't understand why those who don't want to plan feel a need to get all the benefits of those who do plan.
You really would find it a terrible experience if someone managed to get into a dinner at a 'hard to reserve' place with you if they didn't have an ADR? Wow.

CR Resort Fan 4 Life
10-16-2011, 03:28 PM
If you cancel less than 12 hours or no-show, you are charged an additional fee of $10 PP.This is one part I disagree with because I don't think it matters when someone cancels an ADR, as long as they end up doing it. Sometimes things can happen that are un-expected and what if a guest needed to cancel an ADR that they are supposed to be at in 2 hours. Why should they be charged that $10 per person for doing the right thing compared to other guests who never call and cancel the ADR.

eliza61
10-16-2011, 04:32 PM
I just not a fan of fees that don't do any thing.

this fee won't stop adr abuses.
won't help polly planner get those sought after adrs any easier.
penalizes people for "life' events. I know everyone else has perfect lives where planes never land late, people never get hot or over loaded (imagine that happening at wdw) but this jsut penalized people on a supposedly perfect vacation.

rlduvall
10-16-2011, 04:33 PM
One of the few changes Disney has made recently that I totally love. :thumbsup2

cluvsdisney
10-16-2011, 06:34 PM
I am against the policy.

It does nothing to prevent double booking ADRs.

It's nearly impossible to change the number of people on an ADR without risking the whole meal so I think it's terribly unfair if they impose a charge for people in a group that don't show up.

But most of all, these are not even real reservations! It's not as though you show up early at their request and a table is ready at your ADR time. We almost always have to wait past our ADR time to get seated.

always
10-16-2011, 07:20 PM
Lots of posts explaining why people don't like it. Hardly any explaining why people do like it. Why is that?

People who like the change, care to share why?

mello
10-16-2011, 07:24 PM
Let's try to put some numbers to this debate/discussion. Let's see the percentages for and against.


And whether you're for or against, if you wish, you can lay out the framework of what you feel is the ideal system for ADRs from start to finish.


To me, the ideal system would look something like this:



ADR window is 45 days for on-site guests, 30 days for off-site guests
Each ADR requires a $10 "deposit" that goes toward the balance of your meal. If you're on the DP, then it goes toward the tip or anything else not covered by the plan. (BTW, I would give you a "cart" so that you only would have to enter CC one time.)
The deposit can be transferred to another ADR if you switch to another restaurant and/or time for the same meal.
If you just flat out cancel the ADR, up to12 hours prior to your ADR time, you lose the $10 fee.
If you cancel less than 12 hours or no-show, you are charged an additional fee of $10 PP.


I like your plan very much! I think you should send it in to Disney for consideration!

disneymagicgirl
10-16-2011, 09:31 PM
I voted that I like it, but to elaborate...
I think it will cut down SOME on people making multiple ADRs and people not showing up.
Obviously you can still book multiple ADRs so long as you can remember to cancel the extras in advance.
Now we will be able to grab some last minute adr's at 24-48 hrs out...thus making good use of the new free wi-fi at the resorts. :thumbsup2

Cafeen
10-16-2011, 10:06 PM
I won't get into my detailed thoughts on the new policy. You can read all of that (and then some!) in the big thread about it.

My design though?
Remove non-park breakfasts from the list.
Remove all new signatures from the list. Most of them aren't nearly busy enough to warrant this.
Change the window to 3 hours
Allow for alternate methods to guarantee the reservation (will require system changes). Main thing would be to be like the resort reservations, and allow a mailed check or money order for the deposits. This would get applied as a refund to your bill. (Only for this alternative method).
Improve the system for reducing the number of people on a reservation.
Improve the ADR system to show availability for walk-ups (< 3 hours out)
Place a CM with a tablet outside the main gates to check for walk-up availability.
Increase the charge to $20 per 2 people. (So, solo = $20, couple = $20, three = $40, etc)
Waive any and all charges (and apply the refund) to anyone who is not seated within 15-20 minutes of their ADR and decides to leave.
Waive the fee if either one adult, or one child and one adult do not make it for ANY reason.
Train EVERY dining CM to be consistent with all policies. Yes, allow for some leeway for guest experience, but the bulk should be consistent with said policy.
Increase flexibility for late cancels up to ADR time. If the reason is something even somewhat valid, trust the customer.
That should be a good starting point. Still allows for abuse, which will likely happen either way, but does not prevent life from happening to those honestly trying to use the system.

mcd2745
10-16-2011, 11:27 PM
Lots of posts explaining why people don't like it. Hardly any explaining why people do like it. Why is that?

People who like the change, care to share why?



In the other thread, many of the people against the policy seemed to all say the same thing - that it will not stop the "hoarders" from doing what they do. While I don't believe it will stop all of them, I do believe it will significantly decrease the number of hoarders. It may not happen right away, but I believe it will.

Plus, I feel it does not negatively impact me in any way because I always fully to attend the meals for which I make ADRs. In the less than likely event should one of my children get sick or whatever, I'm not going to worry about the fee as I would then have bigger concerns.

Poll results so far are about what I expected - that a decent majority, but not an overwhelming one was in favor of the policy.

For curiosity's sake, I would have liked to have seen more people lay out what system they would like to see if Disney put them in charge of the ADR system. Everyone likes to complain about things, but they seem short on suggestions for what they think would be a better idea.

mcd2745
10-16-2011, 11:35 PM
This is one part I disagree with because I don't think it matters when someone cancels an ADR, as long as they end up doing it. Sometimes things can happen that are un-expected and what if a guest needed to cancel an ADR that they are supposed to be at in 2 hours. Why should they be charged that $10 per person for doing the right thing compared to other guests who never call and cancel the ADR.

I would have liked to say a shorter window for cancellations. I don't have a problem at all with 3 hours for dinner ADRs, but 3 hours is a problem for breakfasts. So rather than have the confusion involved with separate deadlines for different meals, I went with the lowest number that worked for all meals.

No system anyone can come up would be perfect. What it should ultimately strive to be though is as fair and reasonable for the largest number of people as possible - knowing that it will never please everyone.

mello
10-17-2011, 12:20 AM
I actually do think 3 hours would work fine for breakfast. In order to make it to an ADR on time, a family would probably need to be up close to that far ahead anyway, if they're using Disney transportation at any rate. One would know upon waking, whether everyone is well, or if cancelling is necessary. If you've got an 8am ADR and someone wasn't feeling well the night before, either cancel the night before, or get up at 5 to check if you need to. And if you oversleep - well, the consequences would apply.

My solution would be very similar to yours, (but I would do the 3 hour window, or perhaps even a 2 hour), so I didn't submit one.

I believe the most important aspect of your plan is to reduce the 180 day ADR down to 45 days for onsite guests and 30 for offsite. This really would reduce a huge amount of hoarding, no-shows, and problems for later planners, and it equalizes the playing field while still giving an advantage to onsite guests. I know just from reading these boards for years that one of the BIG reasons people book multiples is because they don't know how to plan until Disney releases park hours, parade times, etc and then tweaks them. A 30 day window would totally eliminate that from the equation. Everyone would have plenty of info to make their decisions and book single ADRs. Not to mention that it would reduce the likelihood of credit cards being expired, canceled, etc. by the day of the reservation. Even 60 days would improve things immensely.

In addition, I would beef up the computer system, add more servers, etc. so that it's fully able to handle reservation and cancellation volume. I love your idea of only having to enter a cc# online once - I'm envisioning having to do it multiple times as something of a nightmare come 4am on 180-ADR-Day.

I do like the fact that Disney is making a cancellation # available. Hopefully they will make it an easy process for those who dial in. If it were up to me, I would have an automated system where you enter your reserv.#, it brings it up, and you hit a button to cancel it. Done. No lengthy waits on hold, explanations, getting all your info again, etc.

mcd2745
10-17-2011, 12:54 AM
I actually do think 3 hours would work fine for breakfast. In order to make it to an ADR on time, a family would probably need to be up close to that far ahead anyway, if they're using Disney transportation at any rate. One would know upon waking, whether everyone is well, or if cancelling is necessary. If you've got an 8am ADR and someone wasn't feeling well the night before, either cancel the night before, or get up at 5 to check if you need to. And if you oversleep - well, the consequences would apply.


The problem in your scenario, though, is how does Disney replace that cancellation? You can't have a walk-up get that table if you're talking about one of the restaurants in the parks as there are no walk-up candidates in the park since they can't even get into the park that early without an existing ADR.




I believe the most important aspect of your plan is to reduce the 180 day ADR down to 45 days for onsite guests and 30 for offsite. This really would reduce a huge amount of hoarding, no-shows, and problems for later planners, and it equalizes the playing field while still giving an advantage to onsite guests. I know just from reading these boards for years that one of the BIG reasons people book multiples is because they don't know how to plan until Disney releases park hours, parade times, etc and then tweaks them. A 30 day window would totally eliminate that from the equation. Everyone would have plenty of info to make their decisions and book single ADRs. Not to mention that it would reduce the likelihood of credit cards being expired, canceled, etc. by the day of the reservation. Even 60 days would improve things immensely.




ITA. I've said it so many times in so many threads...IMO the 180 day rule is A) ridiculous, and B) the biggest reason there is so much abuse of the system (hoarding). Besides the obvious things, another thing a shorter window would accomplish is eliminating all the ADRs that are made by people 6 months out "on spec" because they're not even sure if they will be going to WDW at all. And then of those who decide they can't go for whatever reason(s), I'm sure many cancel their ADRs and many may not. Going forward, this new policy though, will ensure that most, if not all, people in that situation do indeed cancel.

Mkrop
10-17-2011, 05:52 AM
I would have liked to say a shorter window for cancellations. I don't have a problem at all with 3 hours for dinner ADRs, but 3 hours is a problem for breakfasts. So rather than have the confusion involved with separate deadlines for different meals, I went with the lowest number that worked for all meals.

No system anyone can come up would be perfect. What it should ultimately strive to be though is as fair and reasonable for the largest number of people as possible - knowing that it will never please everyone.

why cant the fee just be for no shows, if you cancel bc life gets in the way, they should be able to fill that spot with a walkup. As long as you cancel, that is being considerate

eliza61
10-17-2011, 07:17 AM
why cant the fee just be for no shows, if you cancel bc life gets in the way, they should be able to fill that spot with a walkup. As long as you cancel, that is being considerate

Great idea.!!

We had one night at MK where about 2 hours before our adr we realized that we really didn't want a big sit down meal. We had an adr at Tony's and we simply walked over and cancelled. Now under this new policy we would have been dinged 60 bucks (for 6 people). :scared1:

vicki_c
10-17-2011, 07:36 AM
I am entirely indifferent. But you didn't have that as a choice.

Steph01002
10-17-2011, 08:13 AM
I book ADR's 180 days out to beat the procrastinators and last minute trip people. I like being able to have first picks by planning early.
The $10 no show fee is just going to annoy people. Most people have a reason for not showing up. People do get sick in Disney... that's what influenced me (a rough cold) to eat at our resort instead of Garden Grill one night. I was beat and it was all decided within an hour and a half of our ADR. The next night, we skipped another ADR, gasp, my son really wanted to swim instead of leave our resort when we had to leave or miss the ADR time. I didn't hoard ADR's, but sometimes life changes within an hour of plans. I would have spent the $10/person just to be able to do what we wanted to do. In the grand scheme of things, $10 per person is nothing to be able to relax and skip that ADR that you had really wanted to go to just an hour ago when you compare it to how much you spent to be in Disney.

luvmy2babies
10-17-2011, 09:14 AM
I voted against, but my only real problem with the policy is the 24 hour window. I feel that is too much, especially if they are not going to waive the fee for illness. I cancelled two reservations due to illness on our last trip and did so 5 hours before each meal time and I feel that was plenty.

I know some vacations spots have a stricter policy regarding rooms, but at most regular hotels like Holiday Inn and the like, you can cancel the same day without penalty and it is harder IMHO to fill a room after someone cancels than a table at a restaurant.

mcd2745
10-17-2011, 09:30 AM
why cant the fee just be for no shows, if you cancel bc life gets in the way, they should be able to fill that spot with a walkup. As long as you cancel, that is being considerate


How would they fill the spot if you cancel an 8am ADR at Crystal Palace two hours before?