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TDC Nala
10-12-2011, 08:01 AM
This is an official notice that was provided by Cheshire Figment, as it's no longer a rumor I'm going to put it up here on this board.

PLEASE BE SURE YOU READ THE QUOTE BELOW CAREFULLY. This policy applies to RESERVATIONS MADE ON OR AFTER OCTOBER 26, 2011 ONLY. If you have already made reservations before this date THEY WILL NOT BE AFFECTED.

At this time it is unknown what, if any, exigent circumstances will be permitted as excuses for cancelling a reservation at a restaurant on this list on the same day as the reservation. We do not know if Disney will have specific accepted excuses or if it will be up to the person who answers the phone whether or not to accept the excuse. We also cannot be sure at this time that any exigent circumstances for cancelling the day of will be accepted at all.

Per information from a poster who called Disney Dining, apparently if a partial party shows up at the restaurant there will still be a $10 charge for each person who didn't show up. This is the information given via one call to Disney Dining...we all know how consistent they are with their information.

It is also not clear at this time whether "a day in advance" means a calendar day or 24 hours.

"To provide consistent Guest service, adjustments will be made to the Walt Disney World Resort cancellation policy beginning October 26, 2011. At that time, additional table-service locations will begin using the cancellation policy already in place at select restaurants on property. When booking a reservation at these restaurants, Guests will be required to provide a credit card to hold a reservation and will be charged $10 per person if the cancellation isn’t made at least one day in advance.

Pre-paid locations will continue to retain the full, pre-paid amount if Guests are unable to honor the reservation and are unable to cancel the reservation one day in advance. Special dining events and packages such as Fantasmic! packages, New Year’s Eve dinners, Victoria & Albert’s reservations may have different cancellation requirements.

Dining locations participating in the credit card guarantee policy will be as follows:

Pre-Paid Locations

• Cinderella’s Royal Table
• Disney’s Spirit of Aloha Dinner Show
• Hoop-Dee-Doo Musical Revue
• Mickey’s Backyard BBQ

Credit Card Guarantee Locations

• 1900 Park Fare
• Akershus Royal Banquet Hall
• Artist Point
• California Grill
• Cape May Café
• Chef Mickey’s
• Cítricos
• The Crystal Palace
• Flying Fish Café
• The Garden Grill
• Hollywood & Vine
• Jiko – The Cooking Place
• Le Cellier Steakhouse
• Narcoossee’s
• ‘Ohana
• Tusker House Restaurant
• The Hollywood Brown Derby
• Victoria & Albert’s (cancellation policy is $25/per person)
• Yachtsman Steakhouse

A special phone line that only handles dining cancellations is available for Guest convenience: 407-WDW-CNCL. Dining reservations may be booked or canceled by visiting any table-service restaurant podium, Walt Disney World Resort Hotel front desk, concierge or Guest Relations, or by calling 407-WDW-DINE. Guests may also make and cancel reservations by visiting www.DisneyWorld.com/Dining.

Guests with questions about a cancellation policy for a dining reservation are encouraged to visit any table-service restaurant podium, Walt Disney World Resort Hotel front desk, Concierge or Guest Relations, or by call 407-WDW-DINE."

Note that it is all "signature" restaurants and all with Character Dining. With the exception of Akershus (with Characters) and Le Cellier it does not include any Epcot restaurants.

LMO429
10-12-2011, 08:26 AM
Is this now the official thread to discuss this? :confused3 It's seems this discussion threads keeps coming up closed and I just wanted to post a quick ?

TDC Nala
10-12-2011, 08:27 AM
Yes, we are going to have one thread for general discussion on this topic, and this is going to be it. Otherwise we will likely end up with multiple threads just on this topic.

LMO429
10-12-2011, 08:32 AM
Ok thank you for clarifying

My question is I already have reservations for some of the restaurants that now require a cc to hold it..however I did not have to supply a credit card when i originally made the reservations. We are going to be at the world oct 27 - nov 3rd. So I have reservations at Ohana and Cape May and I did not give a credit card to hold. My ? is does the 10 penatly fee apply to us or would it be any new reservations I make during that time frame that would apply

lovin'fl
10-12-2011, 08:32 AM
So this begins end of Oct. My question is like LMO429's- I have Ohana booked for Dec...will they now call and ask for credit card info or will we be grand-fathered in (so to speak)?

TDC Nala
10-12-2011, 08:34 AM
If you have already booked the reservations, based on a reading of the memo this will not apply. It applies to reservations booked on or after October 26.

Direct quote:

adjustments will be made to the Walt Disney World Resort cancellation policy beginning October 26, 2011. At that time, additional table-service locations will begin using the cancellation policy already in place at select restaurants on property. When booking a reservation at these restaurants

I don't think they have the time or the wherewithal to contact everyone who already had a reservation booked at any of these places and ask them for a credit card.

havoc315
10-12-2011, 08:38 AM
I wonder, to what extent, Disney will waive the fee for "good faith" same day cancellations. Otherwise, you will have some very upset guests.
I can think of at least 3 types of good faith reasons to cancel the same day -

-- Sickness
-- Extreme weather. Wake up to a rain storm, and you might not want to spend the day at Animal Kingdom afterall.
-- transportation. While you should budget enough time to make it a non-issue, the unforeseeable does happen. If on arrival day, your flight is supposed to arrive at noon, I don't think it is irresponsible to make a dinner reservation. But there are times, especially in winter or with missed connections, where travel can be delayed by 6 hours, 12 hours, even 24 hours. And at times, Disney's own transportation can face a severe delay, putting you 30-60+ minutes behind schedule.

I suspect Disney will maintain an unpublished policy of waiving the fee upon request, as long as a reasonable excuse is offered, and as long as it's not habitual. (not your 3rd cancelled reservation of the trip)

MusicMouse
10-12-2011, 08:39 AM
It looks like I booked just in time (although I already had to guarantee Akershus with a CC). I hope this cuts down on all of the no-shows - it must be very frustrating to be turned away from restaurants that are only 2/3 full! :goodvibes

goingthedistance
10-12-2011, 09:38 AM
So what happens if I have a reservation for 4 people but only 2 show up? Am I charged $10 per person for the no shows?

Cafeen
10-12-2011, 09:43 AM
So what happens if I have a reservation for 4 people but only 2 show up? Am I charged $10 per person for the no shows?
As it sits now, yes. Of course, some inconsistency will apply, but the official word (and how it's done now, for the most part) is that partial parties are charged for those that don't show up.

angelmav
10-12-2011, 09:51 AM
My issue is the 24 hr cancellation policy. You need to plan so far in advance and if your plans change, even cancelling many hours in advance doesnt save the charge. Oversleep and miss that breakfast ADR, charged, someone drops out, cant make it etc, charged. They want to keep you confined to property and plan everything in great detail but then place this kind of restriction seems like some people will be caught with this that would have otherwise acted in good faith. Its not like most people have 1 meal to plan, its several. Some parties are quite large too, so it could be really expensive to risk making an ADR if there is any chance you cant make it. How many people make ADR's with the Deluxe then find out they dont have the appetite for that meal they were sure they wanted six months ago? Just wish this were more like a 2 hour cancellation to allow for walkups so the table isnt held.

shoney
10-12-2011, 10:00 AM
I think it is a great idea. I recently started a thread "% of adr's that you keep" and most people here to keep them, but I have a hard time believing that the majority of people keep 100% outside of the dis.

I am planning my first onsite trip and have my adr's made. I am not crazy about the idea of planning when and where I want to eat months in advance. I prefer to be much more spontaneous on vacation. I am hoping that this policy allows for more walk-ups. I would rather pick a restaurant on the fly and wait for a table, then make my family "run" to the
ADR instead of riding a ride they want at the time.

I guess we'll see the policies effects sometime in 2012.

nkereina
10-12-2011, 10:07 AM
I agree with PP. For those of us who don't like to over-plan but like to make a couple ADRs, this could throw a wrench in it. I could see it also negatively affecting first time guests. Even if a first time guest is on top of it and makes ADRs six months out, when they get there and are on their trip, they may find that at the end of the week they don't want to go back to Epcot or they may want to spend another day at DHS, etc. They don't know which park they will like and not like, it may differ from what they thought. This kind of happened to us last time and we canceled an ADR last minute because we did not want to go back to DHS one night. It does make it hard to do what you want and play things by ear.

Also as mentioned on the last thread, there are still people in the world who don't have credit cards. My brother, for instance, recently filed bankruptcy and has no active credit cards or debit cards. Disney is a great place for these people to vacation because you do not have to put a credit card down at check-in and if you book through a travel agent, you can pay in cash. I suppose, though, you could buy a Visa gift card or a pre-paid card at a drug store but now people will be forced to do this.

I will be interested to see how much of a noticeable effect this will have with ADR availability. People can still tie up ADRs until they make decisions, they just need to make the decision 24 hours earlier now which won't really help people.

mcd2745
10-12-2011, 10:20 AM
To the "powers that be" at WDW: :thanks:


Glad to see Disney finally addressing the problem. Clearly, they realized something had to be done to reduce the number of no-shows. The only people who should have a problem with this policy are the people who make ADRs knowing they are unlikely to use them. I hope they take a firm stance and not waive the fees for everyone who claims "junior just got sick" or "the bus never came", etc. If it becomes common knowlede that you can just give a lame excuse and they will waive the fee, then nothing will change.

What I wonder is...can Disney's system periodically verify the card info given at the time the ADRs is made? I can see the people who like to hoard ADRs trying to find ways around this by say, making their ususal multiple ADRs for the same nights at 180 days, giving Disney a valid CC for the "hold", then cancelling the card with the thinking they wouldn't be able to get charged after they don't show for a bunch of ADRs.

AUDramaQueen
10-12-2011, 10:24 AM
It could potentially help walk-ups who we know often complain because they can't get a sit down meal anywhere (because they don't research anything before leaving).

I am betting they will be fairly lenient with their charges for cancelling b/c of weather, etc and are really hoping to cut back on those who make multiple ressies at popular places and then don't show. They can probably track who does that on a regular basis more easily this way.

luvmy2babies
10-12-2011, 10:26 AM
I read somewhere they waive the fee for illness on the ones that already require advance notice, so I hope they extend it to the added restaurants. I had to cancel 2 last time due to illness.

I will be interested to see how the process goes online. I am wondering if I'm making reservations online, will I have to re-enter the card number every time or will it pre-fill after I do one like it does for your name and ph#. I kind of doubt it will assume you want to use the same number though.

Before I have only had Akershus that I had to enter my card for, but of the 9 I am hoping to do on our 10 day trip next June, 8 are on the list that now require a CC. I'm wondering if I will have to enter it for every reservation I make in a session. I've seen how even seconds can make a difference when going through the process online.

TDC Nala
10-12-2011, 10:31 AM
I can see the people who like to hoard ADRs trying to find ways around this by say, making their ususal multiple ADRs for the same nights at 180 days, giving Disney a valid CC for the "hold", then cancelling the card with the thinking they wouldn't be able to get charged after they don't show for a bunch of ADRs.



Anyone who wants to play around with their credit rating like this for the sake of avoiding being required to show up for a character meal or cancel it a day ahead is welcome to try this, I'm sure.

mcd2745
10-12-2011, 10:32 AM
I think it is a great idea. I recently started a thread "% of adr's that you keep" and most people here to keep them, but I have a hard time believing that the majority of people keep 100% outside of the dis.




Well...I'm sure there are plenty here on the DIS who don't keep ADRs (due to multiple-bookings and whatnot) - there probably just are only a few who will admit to it.





I could see it also negatively affecting first time guests. Even if a first time guest is on top of it and makes ADRs six months out, when they get there and are on their trip, they may find that at the end of the week they don't want to go back to Epcot or they may want to spend another day at DHS, etc. They don't know which park they will like and not like, it may differ from what they thought. This kind of happened to us last time and we canceled an ADR last minute because we did not want to go back to DHS one night. It does make it hard to do what you want and play things by ear.




True...first-timers may have trouble. I just hope all CMs on the dining line are very clear in explaining the policy and also hope on the ADR website that it stated very clearly, and not hidden in the "fine print".

ccgirl
10-12-2011, 10:34 AM
I, for one, am thrilled with this. This is a great way to eliminate double (and triple) dining reservations. I know far too many people that werent' sure what park they were going to be at on which day so they just made reservations and each of them and never cancelled. I also know those that were just two people but there were no reservations available for a party of 2 so they just made it for 6 and showed up with just 2. Illness happens. I have found them to be most accommodating. My DD threw up out of the blue on the way to the BBB appt. I called and they cancelled without penalty.

MisWal
10-12-2011, 10:46 AM
I can definitely see the upside to this is that people won't be making 2 or 3 reservations to different places for the same meal and waiting until they get there to decide what they feel like eating and then cancelling the others at the last second. I think this happens way more often than anyone will admit.

KatieCollette
10-12-2011, 10:52 AM
Well I have a question, what happens now if you don't make it to an ADR without notification? To just a normal restaurant that doesn't need a CC# to reserve it?

TDC Nala
10-12-2011, 10:54 AM
Well I have a question, what happens now if you don't make it to an ADR without notification? To just a normal restaurant that doesn't need a CC# to reserve it?

If the restaurant isn't on the list in the first post, nothing happens. They can't charge you if they don't take a credit card guarantee.

ars0525
10-12-2011, 10:59 AM
Well I have a question, what happens now if you don't make it to an ADR without notification? To just a normal restaurant that doesn't need a CC# to reserve it?

I would assume Disney at a certain point past your reservation time if you haven't yet checked in considers you a "no show" & may or may not be able to seat either a possible walk-up or the next reservation (depending how long they wait to consider you a no show).

Financially though nothing happens to you if you no show for an ADR that doesn't require a cc to schedule.

Personally I think this is a good move by Disney. Perhaps it has some kinks that need to be worked out over time, but it's a start.

Lyndria
10-12-2011, 11:00 AM
:thumbsup2 Way to go Disney!

tyniknate
10-12-2011, 11:02 AM
:cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:
IT'S ABOUT TIME!

offkilterfan
10-12-2011, 11:11 AM
I do agree with this change. The only issue I have is that, I'm a party of 2 and many times there are no ressies available, but I put in 3(I never put in more than 4 which would still equal only one table) and there are. I don't like to do this, but I don't think we should be penalized because we aren't a party of 3 or more. So the question I have is, as long as I cancel the add'l person off within the cancellation time there will be no penalty, correct?

castleri
10-12-2011, 11:22 AM
I do agree with this change. The only issue I have is that, I'm a party of 2 and many times there are no ressies available, but I put in 3(I never put in more than 4 which would still equal only one table) and there are. I don't like to do this, but I don't think we should be penalized because we aren't a party of 3 or more. So the question I have is, as long as I cancel the add'l person off within the cancellation time there will be no penalty, correct?
They may then say this is cancelling and there are no tables for 2 available for your time frame. k

kaligal
10-12-2011, 11:36 AM
Anyone who wants to play around with their credit rating like this for the sake of avoiding being required to show up for a character meal or cancel it a day ahead is welcome to try this, I'm sure.I doubt that anyone will have their credit rating trashed because they cancel a card.

Furthermore, not everyone needs credit. I know most people do, but there are plenty of people out there who have reached the point where they don't.

And I could be wrong, but couldn't people just use a throw-away card and then spend the money before Disney can charge the cancel fee?

I know I leave the parks when it rains. I don't want to get stuck with cancel fees because I didn't hang around for a couple hours in the rain just to have dinner at the Crystal Palace.

I'm looking for the easiest way out of paying cancel fees and keeping reservations.

But I know I may be stuck with just not making the reservations.

PottersMom
10-12-2011, 11:39 AM
I get that they want to cut down on multiple bookings, but this wont correct that problem. You could still make 2 ADRs for the same day and time, just make sure at least one is not on the magic list.
What they should have done is block people from making more than one "dinner" reservation per night per person. (So if you have4 in your party you could still do 2 and2 in case you split up). Only trouble with that is, they cant make any $ for NOTHING.
sorry, but I see this as a way to take advantage of people.

krb2g
10-12-2011, 11:41 AM
My gut reaction to this news was "Wow, Disney is really nickel-and-diming now," but on more reflection, I think it's a good policy. We signed up for the Candlelight Processional Dining package in July with my credit card (which will charge us $65.99 x 11 people if we don't show up) and I had no qualms about making the reservation (and thus being charged a large sum whether we show up or not), and I fully plan on making the rest of our reservations as well (if our early AM flight is late, it might affect our late lunch at Restaurant Marrakesh). If this policy cuts down on the number of no-shows at restaurants, then it's good for Disney, good for the people who plan ahead (1 reservation/meal), and good for the people who'd like to walk-up (nothing stings like being turned away from a restaurant with obvious tables free b/c of no shows).

Lewisc
10-12-2011, 11:49 AM
• The Garden Grill

Note that it is all "signature" restaurants and all with Character Dining. With the exception of Akershus (with Characters) and Le Cellier it does not include any Epcot restaurants. This is an official notice that was provided by Cheshire Figment, as it's no longer a rumor I'm going to put it up here on this board.

I must be missing something. Isn't the Garden Grill located in EPCOT? Has it moved in the last 6 months?

TDC Nala
10-12-2011, 11:51 AM
Yes, Garden Grill is in Epcot, a character restaurant and included, CF must have overlooked it when posting, or he meant to say the World Showcase.

bookworm75
10-12-2011, 11:58 AM
I will be interested to see how the process goes online. I am wondering if I'm making reservations online, will I have to re-enter the card number every time or will it pre-fill after I do one like it does for your name and ph#. I kind of doubt it will assume you want to use the same number though.

This is my question as well. Is this going to push more people to call than book online? I'd much rather book online, but I'll make the call if I have to keep entering my credit card number for ten days' worth of reservations. And yes, most of the places we want for dinner are on the list.

This actually leads me to another question - how will this work for dining plan people?

debrapagliasotti
10-12-2011, 12:00 PM
I think this is a great idea!

TDC Nala
10-12-2011, 12:00 PM
This actually leads me to another question - how will this work for dining plan people?


Exactly how it will work for anyone else. They will need to give a credit card number to hold a reservation at any of the listed restaurants. Not sure why it might work differently for the dining plan. Dining plan guests already have to give credit card guarantees for Akershus, California Grill, Fantasmic packages and the prepaid reservations.

LittleStinkerbelle
10-12-2011, 12:07 PM
I'm so torn on this change. On the one hand, if it cuts down double bookings or people who book, say 'Ohana, for several nights in a row so they can pick which night they want to go once they're there, then I think that part is great.

On the other hand, when I book my ADRs at 180 days I always have full intentions of going to each and every one of them. But 'ya know, sometimes life gets in the way and things come up that mean a day of cancellation. I hate that we'd be penalized for this. When I make my plans, I always make it a point to not book anything with a penalty for the first day we're there in case there is a travel hiccup. Guess that list of places just got longer.

Will be interested to see how this plays out in practice.

:goodvibes

seals
10-12-2011, 12:08 PM
I think it makes sense for their business. There are many hotels where one has to cancel within a time frame, often several days (WDW, for example, 5 days) or lose the equivalent of one night's fee. I would guess they will be somewhat flexible but hopefully avoid people who make multiple reservations and don't cancel them just because there's not reason to. The one day in advance is fairly lenient since most people should have an idea of how they feel, what the weather is and what parks they want to go to 24 hours before. Maybe especially during free dining??

zmanandshan
10-12-2011, 12:11 PM
Overall, the policy is a step in the right direction in my opinion, however, the 24 hour window could be perceived as too restrictive. A 2 or 3 hour window is more realistic and wouldnt have a negative effect on walk-ins. A 2-3 hour vs a 24 hour window wouldnt materially effect people who proactively plan. The shorter window would also lend more flexibility for some who have illnesses, weather-related, or park-preference decisions. I think the shorter window will also reduce the amount of resources tied up for folks who need to speak to an operator and come up with an excuse as to why they have to cancel in the morning for a an evening reservation. The time the operators listen to these excuses would be better utilized for customer service that have a greater impact for the everyday reservation user. For example, I wouldnt want to wait longer on hold to make a reservation because more people are now on the phone explaining how little Johnny threw up on the monorail.

sunshine girl
10-12-2011, 12:15 PM
I think this is excellent! If I can more easily get a same-day reservation, or a walk-up, I'll start considering table service dining. Right now I do almost zero table service - I don't even try it because my expectation based on experience is that there won't be availability (and I'm not a big ADR planner). I'd given up on table service. So, Disney will potentially gain some dining dollars from me!

Of course Disney will make exceptions for special (or not so special) circumstances. They always have.

I think even if only 50% of those who would have just skipped the reservation (and not bothered to cancel) now call to specifically cancel (whether 24 hrs in advance or not), this will be a help to Disney's bottom line AND to other guests who ARE ready and willing to take those empty chairs.

Also, my opinion is that 24-hours notice is their stated policy because 24-hr notice is preferred (and gives Disney a better chance to fill those seats), but I'm willing to bet they'll make many many exceptions, for a whole lot of stuff. And yes, this means one can easily abuse the rule, but I believe the people who circumvent the rule will not cancel out the positive effect this rule will have overall.

Disney wants you to call and cancel, not to just no-show, so they can fill the seat faster (rather than waiting 15min to see if you'll show, and possibly losing a couple table turns per table per day as a cumulative result) - obviously 24hrs is better than, say, 1hr notice for their purposes, so that's how they're going to phrase it. That's my take on this.

To sum up: win! (thanks betamouse...) :sunny:

bookworm75
10-12-2011, 12:18 PM
Exactly how it will work for anyone else. They will need to give a credit card number to hold a reservation at any of the listed restaurants. Not sure why it might work differently for the dining plan. Dining plan guests already have to give credit card guarantees for Akershus, California Grill, Fantasmic packages and the prepaid reservations.

Thank you for this, I haven't made cc guaranteed reservations while on the dining plan before (this trip will only be our second time using DDP). Thought I would ask so that I knew what to expect.

mcd2745
10-12-2011, 12:21 PM
I doubt that anyone will have their credit rating trashed because they cancel a card.

Furthermore, not everyone needs credit. I know most people do, but there are plenty of people out there who have reached the point where they don't.

And I could be wrong, but couldn't people just use a throw-away card and then spend the money before Disney can charge the cancel fee?

I know I leave the parks when it rains. I don't want to get stuck with cancel fees because I didn't hang around for a couple hours in the rain just to have dinner at the Crystal Palace.

I'm looking for the easiest way out of paying cancel fees and keeping reservations.

But I know I may be stuck with just not making the reservations.


It's possible that they would not accept pre-paid cards (I'm pretty sure such cards can easily be identified by the number). Or that the "hold" they place, freezes up that amount on the card and as such you would not be able to spend the amount of the hold until the hold is released. Also, I wonder if they would accept cards whose expiration date is prior to the ADR date.

I would like to think Disney thought of all the ways the "cheaters" would try to get around this policy and put safeguards in place to prevent them.

TeresaWen
10-12-2011, 12:22 PM
Last May we had ADRs at Canada. I woke up pretty sick so we decided to spend the day by the pool at the beach club. Later in the afternoon I still felt sick so I went up for a nap - and slept for four hours. It was our last full day and I tried so hard to make it to dinner but it was just not in the cards. I got up for a bit, my husband went to the marketplace to get me a snack (and to stop by the front desk and cancel our ADR).

I do like this new policy but I am not thrilled about 24 hours - it is a vacation and sometimes we change our minds - like the time we were hanging out at the bar in the polly and decided to stay and have apps and drinks for dinner - I ALWAYS cancel my ADRs when I change my mind.

Hopefully though this will allow for last minute decisions - I remember fondly the days of being able to get a dinner reservation that afternoon - anyone remember the Kiosks in EPCOT with the phones?

nancytoby
10-12-2011, 12:25 PM
If my tabulation is correct(?), these table service locations in parks will have NO credit card requirement nor penalty for no-shows:


MK
Liberty Tree Tavern
The Plaza Restaurant
Tony's Town Square Restaurant

Epcot
Biergarten
Bistro de Paris
Coral Reef Restaurant
La Hacienda de San Angel
Les Chefs de France
Nine Dragons Restaurant
Restaurant Marrakesh
Rose and Crown Dining Room
San Angel Inn
Teppan Edo
Tokyo Dining
Tutto Italia Ristorante
Via Napoli

HS
50's Prime Time Cafe
Mama Melrose's Ristorante Italiano
Sci-Fi Dine-In Theater Restaurant
Tune-in Lounge

AK
Dawa Bar
Rainforest Cafe - Animal Kingdom
Yak & Yeti Restaurant

LittleStinkerbelle
10-12-2011, 12:25 PM
I remember the video phones underneath SE!!!!

diskids2
10-12-2011, 12:28 PM
I know this is probably an unintelligent question on my part, but I just want to clarify if anyone knows....the credit card is just for a hold and nothing is charged on your card unless you don't show up for your ADR or cancel after the window?

nkereina
10-12-2011, 12:28 PM
It's possible that they would not accept pre-paid cards (I'm pretty sure such cards can easily be identified by the number). Or that the "hold" they place, freezes up that amount on the card and as such you would not be able to spend the amount of the hold until the hold is released. Also, I wonder if they would accept cards whose expiration date is prior to the ADR date.

I would like to think Disney thought of all the ways the "cheaters" would try to get around this policy and put safeguards in place to prevent them.

I don't think Disney places a hold. I think it's just a credit card guarantee, which means they will charge you if you don't show, but I don't think they pre-authorize anything to verify the card. I could be wrong about the second part, but I'm pretty sure they don't hold anything.

Also, if they aren't going to allow prepaid cards, then what do people who don't have credit cards do? They still exist in this world and isolates them from being able to book a lot of restaurants.

Mitzicat
10-12-2011, 12:28 PM
I like what Disney is doing. I was surprised over the weekend that I was able to get some good ADRs for places I didn't think would be available. I was tweaking our schedule and needed to move around some meals. I was able to get all the times I wanted for all the restaurants I wanted. I was shocked. Way to go Disney...thanks for all the changes with the dining reservations lately.

DaisyMaisie
10-12-2011, 12:30 PM
Well if we are delayed by transportation, illness etc, they better seat us after our ADR time or waive the fee.

eliza61
10-12-2011, 12:32 PM
My issue is the 24 hr cancellation policy. You need to plan so far in advance and if your plans change, even cancelling many hours in advance doesnt save the charge. Oversleep and miss that breakfast ADR, charged, someone drops out, cant make it etc, charged. They want to keep you confined to property and plan everything in great detail but then place this kind of restriction seems like some people will be caught with this that would have otherwise acted in good faith. Its not like most people have 1 meal to plan, its several. Some parties are quite large too, so it could be really expensive to risk making an ADR if there is any chance you cant make it. How many people make ADR's with the Deluxe then find out they dont have the appetite for that meal they were sure they wanted six months ago? Just wish this were more like a 2 hour cancellation to allow for walkups so the table isnt held.

:thumbsup2

Especially since in todays world of instantaneous information, disney in no way needs a 24 hour window.

yet another nail in my "eating at disney coffin"

Sweet Melissa
10-12-2011, 12:34 PM
I know this is probably an unintelligent question on my part, but I just want to clarify if anyone knows....the credit card is just for a hold and nothing is charged on your card unless you don't show up for your ADR or cancel after the window?

Correct.

I'm looking for the easiest way out of paying cancel fees and keeping reservations.

You aren't going to be charged a "cancel fee." You're only charged a fee if you don't cancel. If you make your reservations = no fee. If you cancel them = no fee. If you blow them off without bothering to call = you get charged. The easiest way out of paying these fees is to either show up or cancel as soon as you know you won't need the reservation.

nancytoby
10-12-2011, 12:36 PM
Well if we are delayed by transportation, illness etc, they better seat us after our ADR time or waive the fee.

Why should WDW compensate you for charges resulting from illness? Unless it's a documented hospitalization, everyone who would be charged under this policy would claim illness. That's what travel insurance covers.

eliza61
10-12-2011, 12:37 PM
I think this is excellent! If I can more easily get a same-day reservation, or a walk-up, I'll start considering table service dining. Right now I do almost zero table service - I don't even try it because my expectation based on experience is that there won't be availability (and I'm not a big ADR planner). I'd given up on table service. So, Disney will potentially gain some dining dollars from me!

Of course Disney will make exceptions for special (or not so special) circumstances. They always have.

I think even if only 50% of those who would have just skipped the reservation (and not bothered to cancel) now call to specifically cancel (whether 24 hrs in advance or not), this will be a help to Disney's bottom line AND to other guests who ARE ready and willing to take those empty chairs.

Also, my opinion is that 24-hours notice is their stated policy because 24-hr notice is preferred (and gives Disney a better chance to fill those seats), but I'm willing to bet they'll make many many exceptions, for a whole lot of stuff. And yes, this means one can easily abuse the rule, but I believe the people who circumvent the rule will not cancel out the positive effect this rule will have overall.

Disney wants you to call and cancel, not to just no-show, so they can fill the seat faster (rather than waiting 15min to see if you'll show, and possibly losing a couple table turns per table per day as a cumulative result) - obviously 24hrs is better than, say, 1hr notice for their purposes, so that's how they're going to phrase it. That's my take on this.

To sum up: win! (thanks betamouse...) :sunny:

Not so sure about this, we had the fantasmic diniing package this August and my youngest son got sick about 10 hours prior. we called and tried to cancel the one person (he's 17 and would have hung out in the room by himself). they were definitely not willing to overlook the charge. I thought it was ridiculous. How was I supposed to know 48 hours prior that he'd be sick!!

shoney
10-12-2011, 12:42 PM
I remember the video phones underneath SE!!!!

Yes!!! It was 1986 and I was a teenager there with my parents after a cruise on the Big Red Boat! We made ressies for the Chinese restaurant for later that night!

I wish it was that easy now!

mcd2745
10-12-2011, 12:46 PM
I don't think Disney places a hold. I think it's just a credit card guarantee, which means they will charge you if you don't show, but I don't think they pre-authorize anything to verify the card. I could be wrong about the second part, but I'm pretty sure they don't hold anything.

Also, if they aren't going to allow prepaid cards, then what do people who don't have credit cards do? They still exist in this world and isolates them from being able to book a lot of restaurants.

Unfortunately, that may be the case. But, this is not a new phenomenon, as they already have policies in place that do the same thing - "isolates" or prevents a certain segment of guests from being able to book certain restaurants. The 180-day window basically keeps people who book a trip 2 or 3 months out from getting most coveted restaurants.


Why should WDW compensate you for charges resulting from illness? Unless it's a documented hospitalization, everyone who would be charged under this policy would claim illness. That's what travel insurance covers.

:thumbsup2

annnewjerz
10-12-2011, 12:48 PM
Just wanted to check since we have about 7 restaurants on that list for our trip in February.

I obviously made ADRs already, so I understand I would be grandfathered in re: having to provide a CC for the guarantee....but if I don't cancel within 24 hours, is there any way for them to charge me? (i.e. will they charge my room or the credit card I used to guarantee Cali Grill?) I know that we have to cancel within 24 hours for Cali Grill as it stands right now, but if I make my ADRs before 10/26, do I have to worry about it for the rest of my signatures?

Ann :goodvibes

TDC Nala
10-12-2011, 12:56 PM
For example, I wouldnt want to wait longer on hold to make a reservation because more people are now on the phone explaining how little Johnny threw up on the monorail.


This may be why Disney has released a new number specifically for making cancellations.

Sweet Melissa
10-12-2011, 12:56 PM
Just wanted to check since we have about 7 restaurants on that list for our trip in February.

I obviously made ADRs already, so I understand I would be grandfathered in re: having to provide a CC for the guarantee....but if I don't cancel within 24 hours, is there any way for them to charge me? (i.e. will they charge my room or the credit card I used to guarantee Cali Grill?) I know that we have to cancel within 24 hours for Cali Grill as it stands right now, but if I make my ADRs before 10/26, do I have to worry about it for the rest of my signatures?

Ann :goodvibes

Since they do have a credit card on file for you because of your California Grill reservation, I would err on the side of caution. Just be sure to either get to your reservations or cancel them as soon as you know you won't be using them.

natebenma
10-12-2011, 12:57 PM
Cape May and Ohana are on this list since they are character breakfasts. Will dinners at these two places also be subject to the non-cancel fee?

DisneyCowgirl
10-12-2011, 12:57 PM
I don't like it. I am a big planner and make ADRs for one meal per day of our trip. At least one day of a week-long trip we will get up and decide to change our plans for the day so I call and cancel that ADR (yes, I actually cancel so that someone else can take our spot). Now that will cost me $40. And I do not believe my table will go unused--these are the most popular restaurants and they are always full (even during the "slow" week in January when we travel).

I only understand this as a money-making effort. Otherwise, why not allow cancelling 3 hours in advance which then allows more walk-ups to be seated--plenty of people wish more they could walk up?

Anyway, I'm going online now to make the rest of my January ADRs so I can get grandfathered in. Flame me now!

TDC Nala
10-12-2011, 12:57 PM
This will not apply to any ADRS that were already made prior to October 26. No matter if they have a CC number on file for your room or for another restaurant reservation. I think it pretty clearly says that it is for reservations MADE on or after October 26.

Cape May and Ohana are on this list since they are character breakfasts. Will dinners at these two places also be subject to the non-cancel fee?


From what is written here it appears the credit card policy will apply to ALL meals at the listed restaurants. They do not list any exceptions. And I can't believe they wouldn't apply this to 'Ohana dinner, that's the most popular restaurant on the list.

ccgirl
10-12-2011, 01:00 PM
Well if we are delayed by transportation, illness etc, they better seat us after our ADR time or waive the fee.

They have a policy that they will seat you 15 minutes after your reservation time. For most places, your reservation will then be auto cancelled. WDW also recommends you give yourself 1 hr using WDW bus transportation to get to a dining reservation.

If something comes up...call. Don't simply show up late and demand they seat you regardless. I have found WDW to be most accommodating when you give them as much advance notification as possible.

They even instituted another number simply for cancellations.

eliza61
10-12-2011, 01:06 PM
Has this question been asked before.

I'm "winging Wanda", I never can figure out where I want to eat 6 months out. I read this policy and think. OK, no problem, I still make 2 TS ADR's a night to have a choice and Now I simply set my Iphone to alarm me say 2 days before the charge kicks in.

So in reality "Planner Pauline" is still stuck. She still can't get the easy adr and now since a lot of planners, plan their entire day around 1 adr, it's not like she's going to change up when Winger calls 24 hours ahead.

Result: people still making 3 adrs a night.

Am I missing some thing?

nancytoby
10-12-2011, 01:20 PM
"Planner Pauline" is still stuck. She still can't get the easy adr and now since a lot of planners, plan their entire day around 1 adr, it's not like she's going to change up when Winger calls 24 hours ahead.
Am I missing some thing?

Presumably Pauline would have a better chance of getting a desirable reservation within 24 hours of her meal when they open up from cancellations. So if there's a particular restaurant you want that you were unable to reserve, try calling up Dining Reservations about 23.5 hours before you want to eat.

mcd2745
10-12-2011, 01:35 PM
Has this question been asked before.

I'm "winging Wanda", I never can figure out where I want to eat 6 months out. I read this policy and think. OK, no problem, I still make 2 TS ADR's a night to have a choice and Now I simply set my Iphone to alarm me say 2 days before the charge kicks in.

So in reality "Planner Pauline" is still stuck. She still can't get the easy adr and now since a lot of planners, plan their entire day around 1 adr, it's not like she's going to change up when Winger calls 24 hours ahead.

Result: people still making 3 adrs a night.

Am I missing some thing?


There will still be some who do this - but I think it will be a lot less than the number who currently do it.

In addition, I bet there will be some people who will do it, but forget to cancel, and then when they get hit with the fee, hopefully it will be the last time they do it. Or maybe others will do it successfully, but then decide for the future that it wasn't worth the hassle. It's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction.

TDC Nala
10-12-2011, 01:40 PM
Has this question been asked before.

I'm "winging Wanda", I never can figure out where I want to eat 6 months out. I read this policy and think. OK, no problem, I still make 2 TS ADR's a night to have a choice and Now I simply set my Iphone to alarm me say 2 days before the charge kicks in.

So in reality "Planner Pauline" is still stuck. She still can't get the easy adr and now since a lot of planners, plan their entire day around 1 adr, it's not like she's going to change up when Winger calls 24 hours ahead.

Result: people still making 3 adrs a night.

Am I missing some thing?

Some will probably still do this. But it now requires the effort necessary to call and cancel, whereas before it was easy just to hang onto the second reservation, which went unused - but as far as the restaurant was concerned, they were still planning to show up. If they don't want to get charged, then they MUST cancel.

maxiesmom
10-12-2011, 01:45 PM
They have a policy that they will seat you 15 minutes after your reservation time. For most places, your reservation will then be auto cancelled. WDW also recommends you give yourself 1 hr using WDW bus transportation to get to a dining reservation.

If something comes up...call. Don't simply show up late and demand they seat you regardless. I have found WDW to be most accommodating when you give them as much advance notification as possible.

They even instituted another number simply for cancellations.

Now they actually tell you to give yourself and hour and a half to make your ADRs. That is what all of mine say for my trip next week.

I'm very glad they are going to some kind of guarantee. It is rather disheartening to show up for your ADR and see the restaurant half empty, and think about how many people just couldn't be bothered to show up.

maxiesmom
10-12-2011, 01:52 PM
double post

mcd2745
10-12-2011, 02:08 PM
They even instituted another number simply for cancellations.


This is kind of an overlooked aspect of all this. If it allows you to quickly and painlessly cancel an ADR, then this alone would have resulted (albiet to a lesser extent) in more people cancelling unused ADRs and therefore, less no-shows.

When someone was already in WDW, and wanted to cancel and ADR...I'm sure many didn't bother because they didn't want to spend 20 minutes telling Disney their name, address, that they're currently in WDW, their phone number, their blood type, which resort they're staying at, their favorite color, the name of their first pet, their political party affiliation, their mother's maiden name, the time of their last bowel movement, etc. before finally being able to simply cancel and ADR.

Colleen27
10-12-2011, 02:35 PM
I hope they take a firm stance and not waive the fees for everyone who claims "junior just got sick" or "the bus never came", etc. If it becomes common knowlede that you can just give a lame excuse and they will waive the fee, then nothing will change.


But if they take a firm stance they're alienating all the families who genuinely DO have a sick kid, and what's worse they're pushing those families to keep their ADRs when they should be staying in their room which means the rest of us are more likely to end up with sick kid issues too.

Colleen27
10-12-2011, 02:43 PM
It's possible that they would not accept pre-paid cards (I'm pretty sure such cards can easily be identified by the number). Or that the "hold" they place, freezes up that amount on the card and as such you would not be able to spend the amount of the hold until the hold is released. Also, I wonder if they would accept cards whose expiration date is prior to the ADR date.

I would like to think Disney thought of all the ways the "cheaters" would try to get around this policy and put safeguards in place to prevent them.

Right now, yes they accept cards with an expiration date prior to travel (learned that one first hand when my new card didn't come until after my 180 date for the last trip - it expired 11/10 and I was able to use it to make ADRs for our 3/11 trip).

Those of us who use debit cards would certainly balk at them actually placing a hold on the funds. We do the DxDDP. A $10pp hold times 5 people in our family (7 in our total travel party) times the 16 ADRs we have (and will keep, barring illness or something else outside our control) would be one heck of a lot of money for them to hold for 6 months! :scared1:

There's no such thing as a system without loopholes and the harder Disney tries the more they'll discourage people who really want to make the dining reservations and eat at the restaurants they reserve. If it gets too ridiculous, they drive people to make other dining arrangements rather than jump through the requisite hoops to enjoy Disney's dining options.

veraletta
10-12-2011, 02:43 PM
Well with Disney going to credit card hold for ADR's, all that means to me is, I will just start making one ADR's a trip, as I never know how I'm going to feel. Last trip I made it to only one ADR's.
While the rest of my family was able to go, I was too sick the whole week.

What I find is Disney's is not losing money right now, as the plan stands because they always have people waiting to see if someone cancels or is a no show. all Disney needs to do is stick by the plan if your not there in 30 minutes you lose your ADR's.

I wouldn't mind it so much if I would be able to get a free meal from them, if I had to wait more than 30 minutes, as a ADR's works both ways. I'm so sick of big companies looking for another way to make another dollar.

I wished they would go to no ADR's or you have to make them the day you want to eat. The reason they have ADR's is so they can be sure that their restaurants that are full, have enough staff. The only thing I see is, I will make ADR's to eat on the day I want to eat. If they have a place for me then I will go, if not I will eat off the park.

I think most people that make ADR's with good intentions I hate making ADR's ahead of time as it sits right now. I know over the last 30 times of going to Disney, I've missed about 4 or 5 ADR's and all was because I was sick.

grandmadebby2
10-12-2011, 02:47 PM
I am glad they are going to the new policy. Some people do get sick kids or a car breaks down but the majority of people not showing up for reservations are just thinking of themselves and not other guest. Once it is implemented everyone will get much more comfortable with it.

Colleen27
10-12-2011, 02:48 PM
Well if we are delayed by transportation, illness etc, they better seat us after our ADR time or waive the fee.

And when I show up on time for my ADR and am told to come back in 45min because they're running so far behind that they ran out of pagers, they'd better not even think about charging me when I go elsewhere! (Le Cellier, that means you! :headache:)

TriSeb°o°
10-12-2011, 02:52 PM
When booking the ADR, the system put a $1.00 pending charge which is listed as 'WDW_CRO_REF' to verify that your credit card is valid.

The pending hold charge is released based on the credit card policy for not receiving an actual sales draft. Anywhere from 2 days to 10 days.

nancytoby
10-12-2011, 02:58 PM
Of course, if they wouldn't charge for wifi in the rooms, I'd be quite happy to make my ADRs for that day every morning from the resort room.... just sayin'. I just don't want to sit on hold or have to navigate a telephone tree or discuss 4 different restaurant options first thing in the morning while my kids are still trying to sleep!

mello
10-12-2011, 03:01 PM
Overall, the policy is a step in the right direction in my opinion, however, the 24 hour window could be perceived as too restrictive. A 2 or 3 hour window is more realistic and wouldnt have a negative effect on walk-ins. A 2-3 hour vs a 24 hour window wouldnt materially effect people who proactively plan. The shorter window would also lend more flexibility for some who have illnesses, weather-related, or park-preference decisions. .

Agreed.

We've only canceled a couple ADR's, but they've been on the day-of, because somebody got sick.

ScoJo15
10-12-2011, 03:02 PM
I feel the policy has been put into place as a deterrent. There are always loopholes around everything and those that wish to buy prepaid cards, use old credit cards, create fake e-mail addresses, etc. will continue to do so regardless of policy/procedure/consideration of others...

...but hopefully what this will do is stress the importance of not making multiple ADR's for the same time period, and in turn free up some slots from those who don't want to take the extra time to find loopholes or try and trick the system.

At least they are trying to do something to help out with the nightmare they created with the free dining and dining plans.

It's just food. And there are always other options on Disney property.

arthuruscg
10-12-2011, 03:02 PM
It is just an attempt to band aid the biggest PIA. The lack of dining during peak hours.

CandleontheWater
10-12-2011, 03:03 PM
As a frequent last minute vacationer, part of me thinks that this might help with getting ADRs, but as someone who also travels with extended family, I can see this as a potential nightmare.

I travel with my two brothers, who can be less than responsible on Disney trips (but they are on vacation after all, so that is excusable). They don't always like to follow my touring plans and sometimes decide to *gasp* visit a different park or even *double gasp* sleep in! :scared1:

So does this mean I can call and cancel them off a reservation, but still keep the seating for the rest of us (the other 6 people on our vacation), or do I have to scrap dinner altogether?

I guess I'll just be avoiding those restaurants, or I'll have to really read them the riot act about showing up on time. This stresses me out! :headache:

maxiesmom
10-12-2011, 03:11 PM
And when I show up on time for my ADR and am told to come back in 45min because they're running so far behind that they ran out of pagers, they'd better not even think about charging me when I go elsewhere! (Le Cellier, that means you! :headache:)

But you need to remember an ADR is not a guarantee of that time, per se. It is for the next table that opens up for your party size. So if you have an ADR for Le Ceiller at 8, that doesn't mean you will get seated at 8. You will get seated at the next table available for your size party.

In that way, Disney is never late. Only the guests are.;)

Euphoria027
10-12-2011, 03:12 PM
Completely on board with this. I don't see how anyone could not be.

thej
10-12-2011, 03:14 PM
I hate to say it, but I think for the most part this is a good thing. It was just too easy to abuse the system. My biggest concern is having to enter my CC number multiple times if we do several character/signature meals.

I will be curious to see how incomplete parties are handled, as we did have my mother along on our last trip and she didn't feel well enough a couple of days to go to several meals. It would have been very frustrating to have to pay a $10 no-show fee for her.

Colleen27
10-12-2011, 03:15 PM
So does this mean I can call and cancel them off a reservation, but still keep the seating for the rest of us (the other 6 people on our vacation), or do I have to scrap dinner altogether?

I guess I'll just be avoiding those restaurants, or I'll have to really read them the riot act about showing up on time. This stresses me out! :headache:

Right now, more likely than not you'd have to scrap the ADR altogether. I asked this on another thread and it seems there are isolated reports of being able to modify ADRs, but the more common response is that there's no way to modify, you have to cancel and rebook. So if there's no availability for your new party size you just lose that ADR.

It stresses me out too, for the same reason. We travel with extended family and often don't know our party size for sure when we make our ADRs. Right now I've got 10 ADRs at restaurants on that list, all for 7 people, but it is probably 50/50 as to whether my brother will join us and if he can't there's a slight possibility that my mother will decide to drop out as well. Fortunately we're grandfathered into the old policy because there's no way for us to change those ADRs from 7 to 5 (or 6), and since ADRs for 5 aren't easy to get I don't think we'd be very likely to get Le Cellier, Ohana, Chef Mickey, etc. if we had to cancel and rebook when we finally know for sure.

kenny
10-12-2011, 03:28 PM
Read through the chain here quickly and cand understand both sides. At this point I am not sure which side of the fence I sit.

I always make ADR's 180 days out so I never really had an issue getting what I initially wanted. However, there have been times 1 or 2 months out that we change our mind on something but can't get what we want.

While we don't generally make ADR's every day we do make many per trip. However, having little kids there is always a day per trip that things change. When we know in advance we always cancel our ADR's. However, there have been times when we end up at a different park then we thought one day and won't make our ADR. While I cancel, this will now mean I am charged because it is less then one day. Also we have been literally on the way to the restaurant when one of the kids had a complete meltdown and turned around and went back to the room. Again, we'll be charged.

While I don't think this is necessarily unfair, it does make it harder now to make as many ADR's as I would have. I agree with others that even when people don't show, their table gets used by walk-ups. I have tried many times to walk-up the day of. Sometimes I get it sometimes not. Maybe I will get more now.

However, overall I will think twice about my ADR's. Knowing that there is a good possibility of missing at least one ADR per trip and being charge $40 (4 people) for it I will probably book less of them and just do more counter service.

I don't think that Disney will make more $$ from dining/seating now as I am sure they fill up every night regardless, but they definitely will make more from the cancellation fees and receive less complaints from guest as well.

We'll have to wait and see how this plays out before making a yea or nay.

TDC Nala
10-12-2011, 03:33 PM
I'm not sure if people notice the new policy doesn't apply to all restaurants at WDW (because it does apply to all the uber-popular and uber-expensive ones).

The policy can be avoided entirely by booking restaurants that aren't on the list. and as Cheshire Figment pointed out when he first posted the list, it doesn't include any World Showcase restaurants other than Le Cellier and Akershus (which had a guarantee already). The World Showcase restaurants are still popular.

rachel09985
10-12-2011, 03:34 PM
I don't like this.

Do you they test your card to make sure it is valid, meaning do they temporarily charge you $10 and then refund it a couple days later?? If that is the case, I can't afford to have all of those $10 charges on my debit card.

And can a debit card be used as the credit card? I don't have a credit card, only debit card.

I just don't like this, I am sure it will help with ADRs but personally this runs too much risk for me- getting accidently charged, losing a reservation (either personally or the system losing it and getting charged.

And plus, I do not like giving my card number out over the internet!!

rachel09985
10-12-2011, 03:37 PM
Also, would this apply to non character meals that are on that list??? i.e. Cape may Dinner, Ohana Dinner???

lugnut33
10-12-2011, 03:59 PM
Meh, not a big deal for me, we don't eat on property that much anyways.

Cafeen
10-12-2011, 04:02 PM
I don't like this.

Do you they test your card to make sure it is valid, meaning do they temporarily charge you $10 and then refund it a couple days later?? If that is the case, I can't afford to have all of those $10 charges on my debit card.

And can a debit card be used as the credit card? I don't have a credit card, only debit card.

I just don't like this, I am sure it will help with ADRs but personally this runs too much risk for me- getting accidently charged, losing a reservation (either personally or the system losing it and getting charged.

And plus, I do not like giving my card number out over the internet!!
The test is usually a standard test to see if the card is valid, not a full charge then refund. The example listed earlier of a $1 non-charge thingy is pretty much it. It shouldn't even balk if you're over the limit or anything.

They do accept debit cards for these holds too (at least under the current system), as I have used my own several times.

And for the bolded, while it doesn't bother me too much, I certainly feel for those who it does, and it bothers me that they're either going to have to "get over it" or be excluded from ALL character meals (sigs as walk-ups are pretty easy, except CG).

Also, would this apply to non character meals that are on that list??? i.e. Cape may Dinner, Ohana Dinner???
Chances are, yes. It'd be a lot harder to separate out the different meals at the different restaurants than it would be just to list out the restaurants. Besides, 'Ohana dinner is the #1 most popular restaurant/meal combo right now, so it really makes sense for it to fall under the policy.

TDC Nala
10-12-2011, 04:12 PM
Also, would this apply to non character meals that are on that list??? i.e. Cape may Dinner, Ohana Dinner???


From what is written it will apply to ALL meals at ALL listed restaurants, as Disney itself did not refer at all to "signature" or "character" in its announcement (it's in the quote that the restaurants all feature signature or character dining, but that was a postcript observation thrown in by CF and it's a good one)

nkereina
10-12-2011, 04:57 PM
The easiest way out of paying these fees is to either show up or cancel as soon as you know you won't need the reservation.

Therein lies the problem. If you don't know you won't need the reservation until that morning or a few hours prior, you will be charged. There's a whole slew of reasons why you may not be able to cancel 24 hours out or earlier.


Has this question been asked before.

I'm "winging Wanda", I never can figure out where I want to eat 6 months out. I read this policy and think. OK, no problem, I still make 2 TS ADR's a night to have a choice and Now I simply set my Iphone to alarm me say 2 days before the charge kicks in.

So in reality "Planner Pauline" is still stuck. She still can't get the easy adr and now since a lot of planners, plan their entire day around 1 adr, it's not like she's going to change up when Winger calls 24 hours ahead.

Result: people still making 3 adrs a night.

Am I missing some thing?

I agree, and mentioned something like this earlier in the thread. And if "Winging Wanda" really wanted to, she could book one credit card hold ADR and one non-credit card hold ADR and then be a no show for the non-credit card hold ADR if she needed to. It doesn't have much of an impact on the people who hoard ADRs, but it does have an impact on those of us who like to play things by ear depending on how we feel or have things come up frequently.

hannahdrewmom
10-12-2011, 05:09 PM
We travel as a large group alot. It would cost us $70 to cancel now... no way will be even entertaining making them. We will no longer be doing deluxe for sure and I'm not sure we will do ddp at all. There was some flexibility with it before in that if I needed to cancel I could and still be ok. It also meant that if I wanted to change parks I could and not worry about that credit I'd do cs. But now it will be an expenditure to us if we have to cancel. It could easily cost us $200 over the course of our normal 10 trip ... no way!

Neverneverland
10-12-2011, 06:02 PM
The only way this will cost you money is if you don't show up - I love this , and it would only encourage me to DxDP .... It seems like a lot of people on this thread have a lot of health problems in their Disney experiences - I always keep my family hydrated, sun screened up and liberally dole out handsanitizer - never had a serious illness - I'm sure they could happen but people in this thread seem to be implying that they are struck down with immobilizing illnesses like every trip :sad2:.....

wdw4rfam
10-12-2011, 06:47 PM
I really hope there are "exceptions". As everyone else stated, I hope it takes care of the "lets book a few each day, so we don't have to commit to any 180 days out" people. But on our way to Chef Mickey for dinner last year, my daughter threw up all over me, and her, and the monorail!! The entire family was already upset since this is their favorite character dinner, I would have been fuming had I been charged $50 for a dinner we couldn't get to. It really stinks now that we are forced to decide what parks and dinners we will do 180 in advance when the park hours aren't even posted yet. But I hope they take certain situations into consideration.

Pats Dragon
10-12-2011, 06:55 PM
I don't like the idea because we make many adr's (but only one per meal most of the time) and we won't make many at all if we have to leave a card. Vacations need flexibility, not sitting outside a restaurant for an hour in case you run late and lose money. Between this and the dining plan you will need to carry a cpa with you to figure it all out!!!

NLD
10-12-2011, 06:56 PM
And if "Winging Wanda" really wanted to, she could book one credit card hold ADR and one non-credit card hold ADR and then be a no show for the non-credit card hold ADR if she needed to. It doesn't have much of an impact on the people who hoard ADRs, but it does have an impact on those of us who like to play things by ear depending on how we feel or have things come up frequently.

Bingo!

I'm honestly in shock how many people are in favor of this. I think it's horrible and doesn't solve anything, it just creates more issues.

nancytoby
10-12-2011, 06:57 PM
I think the people who are concerned about not making their reservations (or not knowing within 24 hours if they can make it) should simply book at one of the long list of restaurants that apparently will not be subject to this policy. Problem solved.

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=42924421&postcount=43

CandleontheWater
10-12-2011, 07:06 PM
The only way this will cost you money is if you don't show up - I love this , and it would only encourage me to DxDP .... It seems like a lot of people on this thread have a lot of health problems in their Disney experiences - I always keep my family hydrated, sun screened up and liberally dole out handsanitizer - never had a serious illness - I'm sure they could happen but people in this thread seem to be implying that they are struck down with immobilizing illnesses like every trip :sad2:.....

If you are traveling with a small group like a family of 4, it is very possible that no one will get sick, but when I travel with my whole family, eight to ten people (which we do once a year), without fail one of us gets sick, hurt, tired, cranky, hungover or otherwise indisposed at least once during a vacation.

When I plan our trips I plan on one sit down meal a day, and we frequent the popular restaurants on the list. I can think of very few times when we have scrapped an ADR entirely, but I can think of lots of times that at least one of our group didn't make it to a meal. I am just not keen on being charged when one person out of ten can't make it, or having to give up on the meal entirely.

It is going to make our vacations less fun if I have to play the bad cop role and force everyone to adhere to the dining schedule or be hit with a big penalty.

My 25 year old brother can have all the best intentions of joining us for a 9 am breakfast at chef mickeys when I ask him 6 months prior, but all that might fly out the window when he gets a few beers in at Jellyrolls the night before the ADR.

MELSMICE
10-12-2011, 07:18 PM
I don't like it. I am a big planner and make ADRs for one meal per day of our trip. At least one day of a week-long trip we will get up and decide to change our plans for the day so I call and cancel that ADR (yes, I actually cancel so that someone else can take our spot). Now that will cost me $40. And I do not believe my table will go unused--these are the most popular restaurants and they are always full (even during the "slow" week in January when we travel).

I only understand this as a money-making effort. Otherwise, why not allow cancelling 3 hours in advance which then allows more walk-ups to be seated--plenty of people wish more they could walk up?

Anyway, I'm going online now to make the rest of my January ADRs so I can get grandfathered in. Flame me now!
In the situation bolded, you'll just have to decide the evening/afternoon before if you are going to change your plans the following day. It's just a little change in the way you do something on your vacation.

But if they take a firm stance they're alienating all the families who genuinely DO have a sick kid, and what's worse they're pushing those families to keep their ADRs when they should be staying in their room which means the rest of us are more likely to end up with sick kid issues too.
I would imagine that Disney has weighed the pros & cons of this many times over. It would seem to me that they have concluded that there will be less people affected by a sick child than there are walk up families who are unable to eat a sit down restaurant because of non-cancelled ADR's.

My guess is they believe they'll be making more guests happier with the change than they will be making guests unhappy in case a child (or member of their party) should get sick.

Sometimes business need to take a stance on things & then they need to follow through with them. If they don't follow through then what does it show the guest...........it shows them that they are not serious about their policy and there is a way to get around it. Soon, there will be many sick guests in WDW unable to make their ADR's.

If you are traveling with a small group like a family of 4, it is very possible that no one will get sick, but when I travel with my whole family, eight to ten people (which we do once a year), without fail one of us gets sick, hurt, tired, cranky, hungover or otherwise indisposed at least once during a vacation.

When I plan our trips I plan on one sit down meal a day, and we frequent the popular restaurants on the list. I can think of very few times when we have scrapped an ADR entirely, but I can think of lots of times that at least one of our group didn't make it to a meal. I am just not keen on being charged when one person out of ten can't make it, or having to give up on the meal entirely.

It is going to make our vacations less fun if I have to play the bad cop role and force everyone to adhere to the dining schedule or be hit with a big penalty.

My 25 year old brother can have all the best intentions of joining us for a 9 am breakfast at chef mickeys when I ask him 6 months prior, but all that might fly out the window when he gets a few beers in at Jellyrolls the night before the ADR.
I don't think that hurt, tired, cranky or hungover would fall under the "sick" category. My guess is that this is one of the reasons that Disney has made this change.........guests cancel because they may be hurt, tired, cranky or hungover.

I can understand what your saying about your brother, also. If it were me I would probably tell him, "We have ADR's at Chef Mickey's at 9 a.m. on Tuesday. I know right now you'd like to join us, but who knows what's going to happen. Because of the new Disney policy with regard to dining how about if we just meet up with you afterward & you'll get the morning to sleep in."

Of tell him that if he decided he doesn't want to go then he owes you the $10.

NLD
10-12-2011, 07:20 PM
I think the people who are concerned about not making their reservations (or not knowing within 24 hours if they can make it) should simply book at one of the long list of restaurants that apparently will not be subject to this policy. Problem solved.

Except that there are NO character restaurants on that list.

NLD
10-12-2011, 07:23 PM
Sometimes business need to take a stance on things & then they need to follow through with them. If they don't follow through then what does it show the guest...........it shows them that they are not serious about their policy and there is a way to get around it. Soon, there will be many sick guests in WDW unable to make their ADR's.


I don't think that hurt, tired, cranky or hungover would fall under the "sick" category. My guess is that this is one of the reasons that Disney has made this change.........guests cancel because they may be hurt, tired, cranky or hungover.

But the thing is... so what? So what if being hurt, tired, or cranky is why people don't show up or cancel last-minute?

IMO it is just flat-out bad customer service to tell a customer "Sorry you are exhausted / your two-year-old is overstimulated / it's pouring and you decided to skip AK--you still owe us money for a meal you didn't eat." That is flat-out horrible customer service.

lovin'fl
10-12-2011, 07:28 PM
I like it. If 1 person in our group can't make an ADR because they are tired/ill or just want to go do something else, then it's only $10 we are out...no reason to get all up in arms over $10. If I booked, say, Cape May and also Ohana and maybe another place becuase we didn't know where we'd end up that day(so I booked 2 or more ADRs to cover all the bases)...under this new policy I wouldn't be able to 'cover the bases' like that, so I'd be ticked. But I only book 1 place at a time(per meal) and make that 1 place work when we are in Disney.

nancytoby
10-12-2011, 07:34 PM
Except that there are NO character restaurants on that list.

Yes, so I think the problem that WDW is trying to address is to leave the limited booking slots for character meals for the people who are going to make sure they make the reservation or cancel it at least 24 hours out and allow other people in. Or else be willing to hazard the $10 per person if they're going to make ADRs at that location rather than a non-character meal. As opposed to people who are going to no-show at character meal ADRs or cancel at the last minute.

Disney customers have every right to vote with their feet on this policy and not make ADRs for character meals. It will be interesting to see if there are more last-minute openings for people who do decide to attend character meals at the last minute.

Pumbaa_
10-12-2011, 07:36 PM
I know many people are happy about this, many are not happy about this

Personally, I think Disney is 'Netflix'ing' themselves on this one

Disney is a vacation destination, the happiest place on earth

now, if you run late, get sidetracked with a parade, a store, a ride, a character or just decide I am having too much fun it will cost you money.

For many, Disney is a one time trip. Not everyone lives on the boards (shocking :scared1:, I know). Things change. I want vacation to be easy going and not regimented

I am disillusioned with Disney and its prices and now this policy. The prices are through the roof, the quality in many cases is subpar and now if you miss a reservation, you will be fined. Really? Where did the :wizard: go?

This will impact our trips. We will be dining less at the places listed and if we can't get a same day ressie we will adapt. We will find other options and retain flexibility. I want vacation to be the time that I do not have to schedule the world (PM by day ;)) and relax.

Be interesting to see the long term impact from this. Maybe time to try Universal :rolleyes:

vinotinto
10-12-2011, 07:40 PM
There are already restaurants that require a credit card pre-payment or guarantee. In the last two years, we have dined at Cali Grill 3 times, Akershus 3 times, HDDR once and CRT once, all with a credit card guarantee and we have not missed any of those meals, nor was it a big inconvenience to put the credit card as a guarantee. I have also forgotten to cancel in those two years two early morning breakfasts - H&V and Cape May - because we simply got up too late and by the time we were up, it was basically already the time for the ADR. So, based on my experience, putting your credit card down will commit you to making that ADR on time. It will also make folks more aware of situations that may impact making that ADR and force all of us to make decisions slightly further in advance. For example, instead of waiting until the morning of the ADR, you may have to look at the weather forecast in advance and make a decision about whether you are really going to visit a park on a particular day. If kids are looking like they are coming down with something, we may be forced to cancel early, rather than taking the chance that someone will not be up for the ADR.

I can understand why many find this inconvenient - I don't particularly like having to guess 30 hours in advance if my kids are going to be up for a meal - but I understand why Disney is making this change. Clearly, simply expecting people to cancel in advance has not worked, and in the end, this will likely make it a little easier to get reservations at the last minute. Too many have taken advantage of the system and now even those who would have legitimate reasons for cancelling at the last minute will have to pay the consequence (pun intended). Again, as much as I don't like to think ahead during my vacation, I think this change is for the best. And, I would just factor into my vacation budget one missed meal.

Sammie
10-12-2011, 07:45 PM
I am trying my best to see how this is a bad thing. For those of you against it as you say you can't know 24 hours prior whether you will show, what have you done in the past.

Have you been not showing up or cancelling at the last minute and letting tables set empty, preventing others from dining, costing Disney lost revenue which results in higher prices for you and the rest of us.

Honestly and I am not judging, I just can't seem to grasp not living in a world where this is already common practice.

I mean Disney has very strict policies for rooms cancellations that are much more expensive, require a credit card or debit, and much further out than 24 hours, how do you handle that?

I guess short of dire emergency which I would at that point care less about money lost, I can plan 24 hours out, as I do it all the time in my daily life.

Don't any of you take other vacations where advance reservations are a necessity? I know we do.

lovin'fl
10-12-2011, 07:45 PM
I know many people are happy about this, many are not happy about this

Personally, I think Disney is 'Netflix'ing' themselves on this one

Disney is a vacation destination, the happiest place on earth

now, if you run late, get sidetracked with a parade, a store, a ride, a character or just decide I am having too much fun it will cost you money.

For many, Disney is a one time trip. Not everyone lives on the boards (shocking :scared1:, I know). Things change. I want vacation to be easy going and not regimented

I am disillusioned with Disney and its prices and now this policy. The prices are through the roof, the quality in many cases is subpar and now if you miss a reservation, you will be fined. Really? Where did the :wizard: go?

This will impact our trips. We will be dining less at the places listed and if we can't get a same day ressie we will adapt. We will find other options and retain flexibility. I want vacation to be the time that I do not have to schedule the world (PM by day ;)) and relax.

Be interesting to see the long term impact from this. Maybe time to try Universal :rolleyes:

Disney should just only take ADRs 24 hours ahead of time. Why don't they do that? They could have kiosks set up in the parks where you could make an ADR for w/in the next 24 hour period and also keep the online and phone ADR resie systems, but you can't book until the 24 hour window.

Colleen27
10-12-2011, 07:48 PM
We travel as a large group alot. It would cost us $70 to cancel now... no way will be even entertaining making them. We will no longer be doing deluxe for sure and I'm not sure we will do ddp at all. There was some flexibility with it before in that if I needed to cancel I could and still be ok. It also meant that if I wanted to change parks I could and not worry about that credit I'd do cs. But now it will be an expenditure to us if we have to cancel. It could easily cost us $200 over the course of our normal 10 trip ... no way!

That's making me uneasy too. We're 5 at least/7 at most, depending on the trip, and for a typical trip we have signature dinners nearly every night. That's a lot of potential for cancellation fees. Toss in the fact that we have obligations that limit us to winter travel - the time of year when you find a new thread about illness going around WDW about every other day on the theme parks board - and it seems like a recipe for headaches trying to get the fees waived at best and shelling out a fair bit of cash for nothing at worst.

Fortunately it won't matter for our January trip - I'll just make sure our plans are finalized before 10/26 so we're grandfathered in under the current rules - so I'll have time to wait and see how it works out before deciding if/how much it will effect my planning habits for our late 2012 and 2013 trips.

fla4fun
10-12-2011, 07:50 PM
I would like clarification on a couple issues. In the article posted on the Orlando Sentinel website, it mentions the 24 hour cancellation and then gives a "for example" of making an ADR for October 30th that would have to be cancelled no later than October 28th to avoid the fees. Is it 24 hours from your specific ADR time, or do they want a full "business day" in between when you cancel and when your ADR is scheduled? I didn't see any detail in what has been posted as directly from Disney - just the wording of cancelling 24 hours in advance. Also, although many people have mentioned being charged for party size changes, was that mentioned in the Disney information? If the majority of your party shows, will they charge you for the missing person or not? I didn't see anything related to party size changes - just parties not showing up. Maybe one of the CM's here can give me some input on these questions.

I don't really have a dog in the fight on this one, because I tend to be a very spontaneous vacationer and if I want a TS meal, I check and see if anything is available last minute knowing I'll be dining CS as a backup (I do that wherever I travel - I hate being tied down to a schedule when I'm supposed to be relaxing). I do think there will be a lot of tweaking of the policies once this is rolled out and they see what kind of challenges crop up. I think we can all agree that the system as it currently stands is far from perfect, or there wouldn't be half empty restaurants that no one can book.

Keke
10-12-2011, 07:55 PM
Okay, I am REALLY stressing about this right now. I got ADRs at 'Ohana and Tusker House breakfast almost 6 months ago for our November trip. At the time, there were 6 of us going. But recently our traveling companion lost his job. Therefore, there are now only 3 of us. I have been able to change every ADR with the exception of those 2 b/c there are no more available.

Now I feel I am going to be forced to give up those ADRs or have to pay a fee. They have my cc on file for our Akhershus dinner. What should I do? This is so unfair. I am so mad right now. I am being penalized b/c my poor cousin lost his job and they won't let my family of 3 sit at a 6-top. :headache::mad::mad:

lovin'fl
10-12-2011, 07:58 PM
Okay, I am REALLY stressing about this right now. I got ADRs at 'Ohana and Tusker House breakfast almost 6 months ago for our November trip. At the time, there were 6 of us going. But recently our traveling companion lost his job. Therefore, there are now only 3 of us. I have been able to change every ADR with the exception of those 2 b/c there are no more available.

Now I feel I am going to be forced to give up those ADRs or have to pay a fee. They have my cc on file for our Akhershus dinner. What should I do? This is so unfair. I am so mad right now. I am being penalized b/c my poor cousin lost his job and they won't let my family of 3 sit at a 6-top. :headache::mad::mad:

You won't be charged...it's for resies made after 10/26(or whatever the date is). You're safe.

Colleen27
10-12-2011, 08:07 PM
I think the people who are concerned about not making their reservations (or not knowing within 24 hours if they can make it) should simply book at one of the long list of restaurants that apparently will not be subject to this policy. Problem solved.


Yeah, that's a great solution. No character dining and no nicer restaurants for relaxing in the evening. But hey, you can still book Tony's or Nine Dragons... :sad2:

Sammie
10-12-2011, 08:07 PM
Everyone, Reservations already booked will not be affected.

ADRs booked before October 25 will not be affected.

It is not when your ADR is, it is when you call to book.

On October 26 when you call to book going forward they will be affected.

MELSMICE
10-12-2011, 08:07 PM
But the thing is... so what? So what if being hurt, tired, or cranky is why people don't show up or cancel last-minute?

IMO it is just flat-out bad customer service to tell a customer "Sorry you are exhausted / your two-year-old is overstimulated / it's pouring and you decided to skip AK--you still owe us money for a meal you didn't eat." That is flat-out horrible customer service.
My guess is that it's because of reasons like the one you stated (which I bolded) is why Disney has had to change this policy. Too many people that were hurt, tired or crank just didn't show up.

It affects more than people obviously thought it did. Just not showing up has more repercussions than you'd imagine.

Also, you might think it's bad customer service but I believe it would be common courtesy to call and cancel. In the case of inclement weather, I'd say that people will be watching the weather more closely. If it looks like it might rain & they have ADR's at a park they will cancel them 24 hours prior.

Okay, I am REALLY stressing about this right now. I got ADRs at 'Ohana and Tusker House breakfast almost 6 months ago for our November trip. At the time, there were 6 of us going. But recently our traveling companion lost his job. Therefore, there are now only 3 of us. I have been able to change every ADR with the exception of those 2 b/c there are no more available.

Now I feel I am going to be forced to give up those ADRs or have to pay a fee. They have my cc on file for our Akhershus dinner. What should I do? This is so unfair. I am so mad right now. I am being penalized b/c my poor cousin lost his job and they won't let my family of 3 sit at a 6-top. :headache::mad::mad:
I would call and ask, explaining your situation, before thinking you're being penalized because your cousin lost his job.

DisneyCowgirl
10-12-2011, 08:09 PM
Have you been not showing up or cancelling at the last minute and letting tables set empty, preventing others from dining, costing Disney lost revenue which results in higher prices for you and the rest of us.



No, I cancel in the morning, as soon as we decide we've changed our plans (and that's for a dinner ADR).

And these restaurants are the most popular--they turn walk ups away. Even when we travel in the slowest weeks of January, they are packed and have a wait. Those tables are NOT going empty.

And as for living in a world where this is not the norm, I don't think anywhere in Houston, TX would charge me if I canceled a reservation the morning of.

tone.def
10-12-2011, 08:11 PM
Okay, I am REALLY stressing about this right now. I got ADRs at 'Ohana and Tusker House breakfast almost 6 months ago for our November trip. At the time, there were 6 of us going. But recently our traveling companion lost his job. Therefore, there are now only 3 of us. I have been able to change every ADR with the exception of those 2 b/c there are no more available.

Now I feel I am going to be forced to give up those ADRs or have to pay a fee. They have my cc on file for our Akhershus dinner. What should I do? This is so unfair. I am so mad right now. I am being penalized b/c my poor cousin lost his job and they won't let my family of 3 sit at a 6-top. :headache::mad::mad:

Why are you stressing? it's for reservations MADE AFTER October 26. Sit back and relax.

SmallWorld71
10-12-2011, 08:13 PM
I am trying my best to see how this is a bad thing. For those of you against it as you say you can't know 24 hours prior whether you will show, what have you done in the past.

Have you been not showing up or cancelling at the last minute and letting tables set empty, preventing others from dining, costing Disney lost revenue which results in higher prices for you and the rest of us.

Honestly and I am not judging, I just can't seem to grasp not living in a world where this is already common practice.

I mean Disney has very strict policies for rooms cancellations that are much more expensive, require a credit card or debit, and much further out than 24 hours, how do you handle that?

I guess short of dire emergency which I would at that point care less about money lost, I can plan 24 hours out, as I do it all the time in my daily life.

Don't any of you take other vacations where advance reservations are a necessity? I know we do.

I can't speak for everyone, but I've only ever canceled one ADR in many years of going to WDW. The morning we were supposed to drive up to WDW from my grandparents (we were visiting them in SW FL) DS12 (then 10) woke up and was the same color as a tomato. Went to CVS and bought a thermometer and his temp was 105.:scared1:Spent the next four hours finding a clinic that would take a walk-in from out of state, getting him checked, getting the meds etc. He had strep throat. We ended up heading to Disney much later than originally planned.

I had an ADR planned for 'Ohana that night which I canceled.

Not sure how I was supposed to know the night before that DS was going to get sick the next day. :confused3 There were no symptoms until that morning.

What is interesting to me, is that all the restaurants that I've been to that are on the list (primarily the character meals and 'Ohana) are notorious for long waits. Even with the no-shows, I think Disney often has more people than they should at these places. They don't need to fill the tables at these places - they are full! It just sounds like another way to nickel and dime people to me.

Count me in with those who think this idea is going to punish "the good" people more than it does "the bad" unless some major kinks are worked out.

Sammie
10-12-2011, 08:29 PM
I know the calaber of Disney dining can not be compared to other restaurants in such places as NYC, etc. but this pay for no shows is not uncommon in the restaurant business.

Fees can range from $25 to $175 per person and from 24 hours notice to 3 days.

While many will not like, many will.

And Disney is obviously losing money over this, and/or a large number of complaints or it would not have changed.

MELSMICE
10-12-2011, 08:32 PM
And Disney is obviously losing money over this, and/or a large number of complaints or it would not have changed.
Agreed!

Keke
10-12-2011, 08:35 PM
Well, thank you for talking me off the ledge, but the release was quite confusing to me. It could have been worded a bit better to stress that they mean reservations BOOKED after that date. That's just my opinion, of course, but it was not clear to me when all I saw was that a new cancellation policy starts in late October. Again, just my opinion.

collegejunkie
10-12-2011, 08:38 PM
few questions:
1. if you already have reservations, you will not be asked for a CC hold right? we are going in december
2. if you make new reservations once this is in effect, they are not charging your CC when you make reservations but only will if you don't come?

Colleen27
10-12-2011, 08:39 PM
I am trying my best to see how this is a bad thing. For those of you against it as you say you can't know 24 hours prior whether you will show, what have you done in the past.

Have you been not showing up or cancelling at the last minute and letting tables set empty, preventing others from dining, costing Disney lost revenue which results in higher prices for you and the rest of us.


In the past we've cancelled several at the last minute or showed up a person or two short, mostly during the trip of the creeping crud (Dec '09, we had a stomach bug hit 3 of the 5 of us and seriously impact 4 days of our trip). In 5 trips and a total of probably 70 ADRs we've cancelled 5 - three for illness, one because the restaurant was running so ridiculously behind that I couldn't expect my kids to wait, and one because it was too cold for our evening plans. I cancelled every one of them as soon as it became apparent that we wouldn't make it, but none of those situations presented with 24+ hr notice and only one was a circumstance where a cancellation penalty would have changed our behaviour.

Traveling, especially with young children, is inherently unpredictable. We buy trip insurance just in case of a sudden illness or broken bone or winter storm right when we're supposed to be leaving, and we do the best we can to stick to our plans once we've arrived at our destination. But there are some things - like a kid who starts puking uncontrollably in the afternoon after feeling/acting fine all morning - that just can't be planned for.

SnipsNSnails
10-12-2011, 08:41 PM
Disney should just only take ADRs 24 hours ahead of time. Why don't they do that? They could have kiosks set up in the parks where you could make an ADR for w/in the next 24 hour period and also keep the online and phone ADR resie systems, but you can't book until the 24 hour window.

No thank-you! The last thing I want to have to worry about on my vacation every day is trying to get the reservations we want for dinner the next day. Yes, I think 180 is totally unnecessary. 90 or even 30 would be fine. But at least I got up early one morning and took care of it all in one shot rather than having to be setting an alarm or watching the clock to try to get the ADRs every day of my vacation. At least if I can't get say Boma for Mon but get it Wed instead I can prepare our schedule ahead of time to change AK to Wed. Fine for people who don't plan much but terrible for those of us who have a plan going in. And that's not to say we don't make changes, we made several on our last trip, but I can't imagine planning to go to AK the next day and then not being able to get an ADR at anything near there. 24 hrs. would be the death of the DDP for us because I'm not going to purchase it with the hope that I can maybe get into some of the restaurants I want. At least as things stand now, if I can't get enough of the ADRs I want, I have the option to not purchase it because I know well in advance of the cut off for changes.

Colleen27
10-12-2011, 08:47 PM
The only way this will cost you money is if you don't show up - I love this , and it would only encourage me to DxDP .... It seems like a lot of people on this thread have a lot of health problems in their Disney experiences - I always keep my family hydrated, sun screened up and liberally dole out handsanitizer - never had a serious illness - I'm sure they could happen but people in this thread seem to be implying that they are struck down with immobilizing illnesses like every trip :sad2:.....

We don't run into illness every trip, but we've had a few - one trip it was morning sickness, one it was a migraine that got wildly out of control (lesson learned - I don't go anywhere without my meds any more), and one was just a stomach bug that was going around. We travel in the winter most of the time and it is hard to be confident about avoiding illness when you're talking about school aged kids, air travel, and a place as densely populated as a Disney park - there are a LOT of opportunities to pick something up despite reasonable precautions.

Cafeen
10-12-2011, 08:49 PM
I think the people who are concerned about not making their reservations (or not knowing within 24 hours if they can make it) should simply book at one of the long list of restaurants that apparently will not be subject to this policy. Problem solved.

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=42924421&postcount=43
It's already been mentioned, but this then excludes these people from EVERY signature and EVERY character meal in Disney (and all the dinner shows, but that's already the case). As it sits now, they're excluded from 2 character meals, 1 signature, and all the dinner shows.

"Every" is a far different scenario than "just a few"

Now, if it were just 'Ohana dinner, in-park Character Breakfasts, Garden Grill, and Le Cellier Lunch (along with all current ones), that would be more than acceptable, as there are other options for those who do not with to be tied to a CC guarantee. But under this, there are no other options.

Disney should just only take ADRs 24 hours ahead of time. Why don't they do that? They could have kiosks set up in the parks where you could make an ADR for w/in the next 24 hour period and also keep the online and phone ADR resie systems, but you can't book until the 24 hour window.
Except, this would wreak havoc with more than a few things.

Dining plans. They take planning to make them work. Not knowing if you can/will get into x restaurant until the day before would make far fewer people good candidates for them. This, in turn, would lower the push to get people on site and in the restaurants, which is the reason they were invented in the first place. (They may be a positive for some, but I'd bet many of the TS restaurants would get fewer customers and smaller bills (thus fewer server T-words) than they do now).

Pre-planners. As it sits now, the pre-planners know where they're going to be, this part wouldn't change. What would change would be the ability to say "Tonight, we're going to dine at 'Ohana." We'd now be saying "Tonight, we'll try for 'Ohana, but may not get there, if not, we'll try for Kona. If that doesn't work, we'll try for..." putting all the ADR "stress" on the vacation time, rather than considerable time before that.

(The Disney biggie) Restaurant Management. Right now, they can estimate staffing and supplies they'll need based on ADRs provided. With a 24 hour reservation, they would not be able to do this at all. They could base it on past trends, but those estimates would be further off than what they get now. The current system is GREAT for restaurant budgeting, even with the current rate of no shows.

I know the calaber of Disney dining can not be compared to other restaurants in such places as NYC, etc. but this pay for no shows is not uncommon in the restaurant business.

Fees can range from $25 to $175 per person and from 24 hours notice to 3 days.

While many will not like, many will.

And Disney is obviously losing money over this, and/or a large number of complaints or it would not have changed.
Tourists to NYC or other major cities are not dining out at these places every day, sometimes twice a day. They'll typically make one or two special meals for them. The bulk of us here, and a good number that dine at Disney are making these reservations for nearly every day, and sometimes multiple times per day.

Add to that the fact that the exclusions are for "Extreme Circumstances" which goes right along with Disney's typical inconsistency in policy, and we don't even know that an illness would be excused. Many of us (myself included) assume it will, but they can flat out say it's not and that it only covers Disney generated issues (transportation, getting stuck on a ride, etc). Add to that the fact that each exclusion is considered "Guest Recovery" and it will go on record, thus potentially limiting you from future exclusions on future trips, or resolution of other issues (the more recoveries you have, the less likely they are to work with you), and it could create some real problems down the road.

Now, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I do agree with the intent. However, I fear the implementation may be far from ideal and will cause headaches for the people following the system more than it will stop those who abuse it. A 2-3 hour window for would be more than sufficient for most, especially since it's not going to stop those ADR hoarders at all (kinda like the "auto-cancel" didn't stop them one bit).

As a test, I just confirmed an ADR for California Grill at 7:30pm on 04/03/2012 for 2 people, using an AMEX prepaid card with ~$5 on it. Granted, this is under the current system, not the new system, but it's highly doubtful they're going to revamp their CC hold system at the same time. At least, I'd hope not, given their track record of updating background systems... (Yes, I already canceled it too)

Colleen27
10-12-2011, 09:02 PM
I know the calaber of Disney dining can not be compared to other restaurants in such places as NYC, etc. but this pay for no shows is not uncommon in the restaurant business.

Fees can range from $25 to $175 per person and from 24 hours notice to 3 days.


How many of those restaurants are family dining, though? The restaurants we've reserved in major cities that have cancellation penalties ha been adult/fine dining, not places you'd take your kids. And it is far easier to be confident in the ability to stick to plans when you're only planning for adults.

Snurk71
10-12-2011, 09:06 PM
I think this is a terrible policy decision from a customer service/experience perspective and not in line with the Disney of old mantra of making every experience magical. I understand the desire/goal of eliminating no-shows, but this solution doesn't match up with Disney's supposed high level of customer service/experience - especially the 24 hour requirement part. Couple of hours - I might cut them some slack. But 24 hours is asking way too much.

So if I stay out late at a park and don't make it for an early ADR - cha-ching. If I have a big breakfast and don't feel like having lunch at the 11:30 time I made the ADR 6 months ago - eat to make yourself sick or cha-ching. Or after forking over hundred of dollars for food over a week I might just get tired of eating by the end of the week and want something smaller at a QS place instead of another character buffet. I had better decide I'm tired of eating at least 24 hours ahead of time or my QS meal will essentially cost me $20 ($10 QS + $10 no-show fee). If your small child is zonked out in a nap - better wake them up and have a miserable night with tired and cranky kids to make your 5:30 ADR or cha-ching.

I would like to hear how this will enhance the customer experience - you still won't be able to make ADRs ahead of time because the multi-bookers won't cancel until the last minute.

MamaJessie
10-12-2011, 09:11 PM
It does make it hard to do what you want and play things by ear.

Also as mentioned on the last thread, there are still people in the world who don't have credit cards.
I think the solution to wanting to play it by ear, is playing it by ear and not making an ADR, and hoping there are walk ups.

And I used my debit card to hold PL so assume it can be used for the ADRs too?

Once it is implemented everyone will get much more comfortable with it.
I agree. I never thought twice about the reservations that already require a hold. No biggie.

Of course, if they wouldn't charge for wifi in the rooms, I'd be quite happy to make my ADRs for that day every morning from the resort room....
True!!

I actually like it. I hope it is a deterrent for ADR hoarders. I know things come up at the last minute sometimes, but not usually.

Cafeen
10-12-2011, 09:13 PM
I think this is a terrible policy decision from a customer service/experience perspective and not in line with the Disney of old mantra of making every experience magical. I understand the desire/goal of eliminating no-shows, but this solution doesn't match up with Disney's supposed high level of customer service/experience - especially the 24 hour requirement part. Couple of hours - I might cut them some slack. But 24 hours is asking way too much.

So if I stay out late at a park and don't make it for an early ADR - cha-ching. If I have a big breakfast and don't feel like having lunch at the 11:30 time I made the ADR 6 months ago - eat to make yourself sick or cha-ching. Or after forking over hundred of dollars for food over a week I might just get tired of eating by the end of the week and want something smaller at a QS place instead of another character buffet. I had better decide I'm tired of eating at least 24 hours ahead of time or my QS meal will essentially cost me $20 ($10 QS + $10 no-show fee).

I would like to hear how this will enhance the customer experience - you still won't be able to make ADRs ahead of time because the multi-bookers won't cancel until the last minute.
This gets me thinking.

Are they still going to charge you if you show up, check in, sit, then decide not to order anything? Obviously, it won't work at fixed prices places, but normal TS. Afterall, you DID show up, do they have to force you to stay and order something as well? This could make it somewhat worse for walk-ups, as now you have people showing up that have 0 desire to eat anything and are just taking up a table for 20 minutes.

I know if I were in that situation, I'd expect (and demand) not to be charged, as I did show up.

si-am
10-12-2011, 09:20 PM
We don't run into illness every trip, but we've had a few - one trip it was morning sickness, one it was a migraine that got wildly out of control (lesson learned - I don't go anywhere without my meds any more), and one was just a stomach bug that was going around. We travel in the winter most of the time and it is hard to be confident about avoiding illness when you're talking about school aged kids, air travel, and a place as densely populated as a Disney park - there are a LOT of opportunities to pick something up despite reasonable precautions.

A few years ago, I was sitting with my family in Tambu Lounge waiting on our Ohana reservations when I suddenly started feeling REALLY gross. Like, throwing-up-any-minute gross. I had been fine up until then. I decided I needed to head back to our hotel-- my mom went with me-- and with bus transportation barely made it back to Pop before I was puking for the next 24 hours.

My mom had been really sick a few days before... obviously some kind of virus that just hit me rather suddenly.

And I DO wash my hands frequently.

It sucked because Ohana is one of my favorites... and it was Christmas Eve!

MamaJessie
10-12-2011, 09:21 PM
It's already been mentioned, but this then excludes these people from EVERY signature and EVERY character meal in Disney
If you really want a character with no accountability you could still do Garden Grove right?

Are they still going to charge you if you show up, check in, sit, then decide not to order anything? Obviously, it won't work at fixed prices places, but normal TS. Afterall, you DID show up, do they have to force you to stay and order something as well? This could make it somewhat worse for walk-ups, as now you have people showing up that have 0 desire to eat anything and are just taking up a table for 20 minutes.

I doubt a lot of people would do that. I have no idea what the policy would be, but I would be mortified if DH tried to get us to sit there, I mean if we could go and sit there why would we be cancelling the ADR?

Sammie
10-12-2011, 09:22 PM
How many of those restaurants are family dining, though? The restaurants we've reserved in major cities that have cancellation penalties ha been adult/fine dining, not places you'd take your kids. And it is far easier to be confident in the ability to stick to plans when you're only planning for adults.

True I would agree with that.

collegejunkie
10-12-2011, 09:29 PM
you only get charged for not showing up AFTER the fact, right? you can still make ADRs with no charge but just a number to "guarantee" them?

stitch34
10-12-2011, 09:33 PM
I am hopeful that the change will allow there to be more availability when booking these harder-to-get places.... but still the popular places will still be booked well in advance even with a credit card hold because, well, they are popular.

I worry mostly about if all the party doesn't show up....
... this upcoming trip, have another family with us... so party of 8. I can totally see them wanting to sleep in and skip breakfast a day or two... so okay, just my family of 4 shows up - but it would be me booking the ADR, my credit card... I show up, and I get charged for the family of 4 with us who couldn't get out of bed!

Or I book 180 days in advance, and local family shows up on weekend of our trip each time. I'll book them with us for meals for Fri, Sat and Sun..... but don't know for sure till weeks ahead.. will they be there all three days, only two of those days? So means me going to ADR missing people again... and hopefully not getting charged.

I would like to think and hope that as long as you DOOOO show up for your ADR, that they won't charge you for people that are missing and understand that yes, you did keep your ADR, you showed up and thatyes, they understand things happen and perhaps some can't make it.

ToddyLu
10-12-2011, 10:34 PM
:) In 12 trips I have cancelled one ADR. Sorry but anyone who goes with us knows the plan several weeks in advance. If they are that sick then $10 isn't going to break me and I knew that when I made the reservation.

I mean this is happening at the few select popular places, not Disney wide. Now if were Disney wide I could see it as a big problem. But I would have to be really really sick to miss my filet at Cali Grill, and at that point I wouldn't care about the cost.

Hey...this may just lead to the Disney ADR Insurance plan....for a small premium your ADRs would be protected--you wouldn't get charged the $10 and Disney would still make money...or maybe they would give you say 10% off the ticket for showing up and keeping the ADR--of course, only if you bought the insurance. :rolleyes:

housemouse
10-12-2011, 10:57 PM
If your small child is zonked out in a nap - better wake them up and have a miserable night with tired and cranky kids to make your 5:30 ADR or cha-ching.

And I so see this happening. People struggling with exhausted and overstimulated children at dinner because they didn't want to cough up $40 for services not rendered. And I wouldn't blame them at all. Unfortunately it won't just be the parents and the children having a miserable night. I very much doubt the diners around them will be having a wonderful experience.:sad2:

kmedina
10-13-2011, 01:41 AM
And I so see this happening. People struggling with exhausted and overstimulated children at dinner because they didn't want to cough up $40 for services not rendered. And I wouldn't blame them at all. Unfortunately it won't just be the parents and the children having a miserable night. I very much doubt the diners around them will be having a wonderful experience.:sad2:

I do see this as a possibility, but there are a lot of restaurants that already do this outside of Disney. If there are good excuses, I am sure Disney will work with people to remove the charge. Disney will get to decide whether being tired is a good enough excuse though. Hopefully, Disney can find a system that works for the majority of people without hurting its business. No decision will ever make everyone happy.

My husband and I made a reservation at a restaurant in Vegas where he knew the manager. When we arrived, the manager noticed my husband before the hostess and personally sat us down. The next day, I noticed a $100 charge (almost half of what the meal cost) on my debit card for no showing to the restaurant. Ironically, it was the same card we charged the meal to. We were obviously not aware until the next day that the manager did not check us in. My husband brought it to the manager who removed it.

The credit card guarantees are never foolproof, but a business has the right to do what it needs to for increased profitability.

TDC Nala
10-13-2011, 02:27 AM
My guess is that this is one of the reasons that Disney has made this change.........guests cancel because they may be hurt, tired, cranky or hungover.




It's because the guests weren't cancelling...and also weren't showing up. Now the guests have to cancel - and they have to do it the day before.

And I so see this happening. People struggling with exhausted and overstimulated children at dinner because they didn't want to cough up $40 for services not rendered. And I wouldn't blame them at all. Unfortunately it won't just be the parents and the children having a miserable night. I very much doubt the diners around them will be having a wonderful experience

I'm kind of wondering what parents did when they booked CRT or Akershus and this situation came up. I've never seen any complaints about it. Maybe that's just because there are now more restaurants involved but I've never seen anyone say "I made this reservation for CRT, the kids were asleep and I didn't want to wake them up, but I had to because if we don't go we lose the payment for the entire meal."

And there must be someone out there whose kid was sick or brother was hungover and couldn't or didn't want to go to CRT or Akershus or the California Grill, what did you do then? (I personally once canceled a California Grill reservation day of due to illness, through the resort lobby concierge, and didn't pay the no-show fee.)

It's also been posted several times that if you made the reservation before October 26 it will NOT be affected. Even if you have a credit card on file for another reservation. Even if your resort reservation is linked to your dining reservations and you think they can get access to your credit card that way.

And yes, the effect is that if you don't want to take the chance that you won't show up for the meal or be able to cancel, you will need to forego making ADRs for any of the restaurants on the list, including character or signature dining, as of October 26. I can't see that it's stopped a lot of guests from booking CRT or Akershus or California Grill though.

Are they still going to charge you if you show up, check in, sit, then decide not to order anything? Obviously, it won't work at fixed prices places, but normal TS. Afterall, you DID show up, do they have to force you to stay and order something as well?

The reason California Grill had a credit card guarantee in the first place is because it used to be open to the public and they had a problem with people just coming up to watch the fireworks. So they closed it to the public and put a check-in desk on the 2nd floor. Then they had guests making reservations just so they could get upstairs and watch the fireworks, they'd then leave without ordering anything. I'm thinking if they did that after the guarantee was instituted, they'd be charged. At character meals, you'd be charged for the full meal just for sitting at the table anyway.

maxiesmom
10-13-2011, 04:25 AM
And I so see this happening. People struggling with exhausted and overstimulated children at dinner because they didn't want to cough up $40 for services not rendered. And I wouldn't blame them at all. Unfortunately it won't just be the parents and the children having a miserable night. I very much doubt the diners around them will be having a wonderful experience.:sad2:

There are tired and cranky children the way things are now, without the credit card guarantee. And most Disney restaurants are so noisy to begin with that a tired child is hardly going to register. If you have a child that is out of control they are so tired then yes, you need to suck it up and lose the $40, and put it down to being a good parent.

People seem to be forgetting that this isn't happening at all restaurants anyway. If the idea of a guarantee bothers you, then avoid those restaurants that have it. Problem solved.

Honestly, if you over-do things so much that you are skipping out on one or two ADRs a trip, you are part of the problem WDW is trying to solve. Kids don't get sick that often on trips, and if you are pushing them so hard that they are basket cases by the time dinner rolls around, then you need to step back and re-evaluate how you are touring the parks. And what you are expecting from your child. Kids get tired beyond belief and they get sick, but it shouldn't be the status quo. And that is what some people are making it sound like.

marivaid
10-13-2011, 05:04 AM
On one of our last trips I tried desperately to book dinner at Cape May. Nothing available. I tried only hours before, and was told it was fully booked. We decided to show up without a reservation and just go to Beaches & Cream if we were turned away... Cape May was about 3/4th empty.

Obviously the current policy of expecting guests to do the right thing is not working.

Tricia1972
10-13-2011, 06:58 AM
I'm kind of wondering what parents did when they booked CRT or Akershus and this situation came up. I've never seen any complaints about it. Maybe that's just because there are now more restaurants involved but I've never seen anyone say "I made this reservation for CRT, the kids were asleep and I didn't want to wake them up, but I had to because if we don't go we lose the payment for the entire meal."

I agree with this and as a parent myself I want to add my thoughts to this.

When it was just CRT and Akershus then most families may make one special reservation for their kids at a meal like this for the entire trip. In that case it's pretty easy to plan for it for one meal. "We don't want to eat a big dinner tonight, we have that CRT tomorrow morning" or "We have that big CRT reservation tonight, let little Jill take a nap in her stroller and we'll just sit out on the park bench" or even "Let's cancel our Crystal Palace for lunch, I'm still full from breakfast and we have CRT planned for tonight"

The inclusion of so many more restaurants, specifically character meals, also increases the percentage of your reservations with this credit card hold. When you're making your entire trip revolve around your dining...it gets much more challenging for a parent. We travel with a party of 7 - so $70 out of pocket for every time that a situation can come up that may affect a meal. If we can't call the day of for a reservation, we'll likely dine offsite more.

eliza61
10-13-2011, 07:11 AM
I am trying my best to see how this is a bad thing. For those of you against it as you say you can't know 24 hours prior whether you will show, what have you done in the past.

Have you been not showing up or cancelling at the last minute and letting tables set empty, preventing others from dining, costing Disney lost revenue which results in higher prices for you and the rest of us.

Honestly and I am not judging, I just can't seem to grasp not living in a world where this is already common practice.

I mean Disney has very strict policies for rooms cancellations that are much more expensive, require a credit card or debit, and much further out than 24 hours, how do you handle that?

I guess short of dire emergency which I would at that point care less about money lost, I can plan 24 hours out, as I do it all the time in my daily life.

Don't any of you take other vacations where advance reservations are a necessity? I know we do.

Sorry I have to politely disagree.

I lived, worked and owned a restaurant in NYC (well my family did) I can't name 7 restaurants that ding you for not showing up. If any thing most restaurant over book prime dining time expecting a % of no shows.


I spent 10 days in Paris France, the gastronomical capital of the world. Never, ever have I been charged a fee for not showing up and we made reservations nightly.

I'm the exact opposite I think all the excuses we give Disney for lousy food and lousy policy are just that. The rest of the tourist destination world manages to operate very nicely yet some how disney always seems to have a problem.

:rolleyes:

Sammie
10-13-2011, 07:35 AM
Sorry I have to politely disagree.

I lived, worked and owned a restaurant in NYC (well my family did) I can't name 7 restaurants that ding you for not showing up. If any thing most restaurant over book prime dining time expecting a % of no shows.


I spent 10 days in Paris France, the gastronomical capital of the world. Never, ever have I been charged a fee for not showing up and we made reservations nightly.

I'm the exact opposite I think all the excuses we give Disney for lousy food and lousy policy are just that. The rest of the tourist destination world manages to operate very nicely yet some how disney always seems to have a problem.

:rolleyes:
Frustrated restaurateurs reserve right to charge fees for no-shows
http://www.nrn.com/article/frustrated-restaurateurs-reserve-right-charge-fees-no-shows


Nojo: Charging for no-shows
http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2011/07/18/nojo-charging-for-no-shows/


Chefs and Restaurateurs Weigh In on No-Show Customers
http://eater.com/archives/2011/09/30/chefs-and-restaurateurs-weigh-in-on-noshow-customers.php

If Disney has lousy food then why would you care if they do this since you would not be dining there anyway. It is only 19 restaurants out of hundreds, I don't think anyone will not be able to find places to eat if they avoid these restaurants due to the policy.

DisneyKevin of the Podcast Team and who does many of the wonderful restaurant reviews for the DIS has shared his thoughts in this thread and pretty much very succiently explained the point I have tried to make, that this is not uncommon policy.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2815922

MEM
10-13-2011, 07:50 AM
There are tired and cranky children the way things are now, without the credit card guarantee. And most Disney restaurants are so noisy to begin with that a tired child is hardly going to register. If you have a child that is out of control they are so tired then yes, you need to suck it up and lose the $40, and put it down to being a good parent.

People seem to be forgetting that this isn't happening at all restaurants anyway. If the idea of a guarantee bothers you, then avoid those restaurants that have it. Problem solved.

Honestly, if you over-do things so much that you are skipping out on one or two ADRs a trip, you are part of the problem WDW is trying to solve. Kids don't get sick that often on trips, and if you are pushing them so hard that they are basket cases by the time dinner rolls around, then you need to step back and re-evaluate how you are touring the parks. And what you are expecting from your child. Kids get tired beyond belief and they get sick, but it shouldn't be the status quo. And that is what some people are making it sound like.

What you say is so true! Some parents will bring the tired/cranky child along so that the parents don't miss out on the dining experience. Haven't we all overheard conversations like this? I made these reservations 6 months ago! We're going! You'll be fine! You just need to eat!

MamaJessie
10-13-2011, 08:13 AM
Hey...this may just lead to the Disney ADR Insurance plan....for a small premium your ADRs would be protected--you wouldn't get charged the $10 and Disney would still make money...or maybe they would give you say 10% off the ticket for showing up and keeping the ADR--of course, only if you bought the insurance. :rolleyes:
LOL I thought the same thing

Honestly, if you over-do things so much that you are skipping out on one or two ADRs a trip, you are part of the problem WDW is trying to solve. Kids don't get sick that often on trips, and if you are pushing them so hard that they are basket cases by the time dinner rolls around, then you need to step back and re-evaluate how you are touring the parks. And what you are expecting from your child. Kids get tired beyond belief and they get sick, but it shouldn't be the status quo. And that is what some people are making it sound like.
:thumbsup2 Exactly.

Obviously the current policy of expecting guests to do the right thing is not working.
I agree.

angelmav
10-13-2011, 08:30 AM
News Flash: Disney announces more restrictive policy for guests that will mean more money for Disney: Disney fans cheer!

I really dont see how this is anything to get excited about. What is the net benefit to the public? Are there really that many people convinced that ADR hoarding is going on? Do you really expect to see any personal benefit from this change? It just made your future trips potentially more difficult to navigate, not easier.

This site is made up of a group of people who tend to frequent WDW. How many thousands of people will make ADR's not realizing the hectic pace, overstimulization, portions, weather, illness, and any number of other things that are hard to factor in when you have never been? First hand accounts of people who have been multiple times reflect instances where the 24hr cancellation window would not be able to be met. The average disney visiter that doesnt know what they are in for is going to get hit over the head with this.

Cafeen
10-13-2011, 08:37 AM
If you really want a character with no accountability you could still do Garden Grove right?


I doubt a lot of people would do that. I have no idea what the policy would be, but I would be mortified if DH tried to get us to sit there, I mean if we could go and sit there why would we be cancelling the ADR?
The character choices are severely limited at Garden Grove. No Mickey, No Princesses, etc. It is the only place you can dine with Timon and I think Rafiki though.

Also, it being off the dining plan is a turn off to a lot of families.

The reason California Grill had a credit card guarantee in the first place is because it used to be open to the public and they had a problem with people just coming up to watch the fireworks. So they closed it to the public and put a check-in desk on the 2nd floor. Then they had guests making reservations just so they could get upstairs and watch the fireworks, they'd then leave without ordering anything. I'm thinking if they did that after the guarantee was instituted, they'd be charged. At character meals, you'd be charged for the full meal just for sitting at the table anyway.
So, now, If I find out I have no appetite shortly before my ADR (which happens), I have to either order and pay for food that will go in the trash (thus taking up server, host(ess), chef time and materials), or pay $10 pp? Since I didn't realize that I wouldn't be hungry enough for a meal until just a few hours before it (if that, but I'd be happy if the timeframe were just a couple hours), and this certainly wouldn't qualify for "Extreme Circumstances", there's no way I could get out of paying this.

I understand that CG is like this now, but switch the example to say, Yachtsman. A low demand signature that now falls under this policy. The result is the same and I now have to pay either for an entree that will go to waste, or $10pp to skip it, since I'm canceling less than one day out. The fact that before, I could work around one meal (or just a couple over the whole trip) makes it a bit less to worry about, now, if I have sigs every night, and 3 or 4 character meals thrown in, it makes it MUCH more difficult to do that. Pretty much spot on with what Tricia was saying.

And this appetite thing has happened to me in the past, it's why I didn't enjoy Hacienda as much last year, and why I skipped Citrico's this year (that, and I fell asleep at 3 for a 1hr nap, and woke up at 6!). Sometimes, I'll have full intention on eating somewhere, get there, open the menu, and then realize that I'm not at all hungry. It's rare, but it does happen, and it's entirely unpredictable (for me).

Unless the policy is a lot more forgiving than I'm guessing, looks like the days of my 4-5 Sigs per trip is over, along with a character meal or two. Which means that I can now save an additional ~$35 per night, since I won't need deluxe. Which means I can save even more (potentially), by forgoing the dining plan. This then means I can try the non-Disney restaurants (Il Mulino, Shula's, etc). Looks like this could turn into a win for me :). Heck, with no dining plan, I don't even have to stay on site! I can rent a small house for what I pay to stay in a moderate.

Of course, a lot of this is theoretical and extrapolating. You all know I do that a lot :p.

And all that, and this is still not going to stop the ADR hoarders. It may slow them down, but the fact that several of us have already figured out the work around (and tested it to some extent), means that others, who are actively thinking of ways to hoard the ADRs will have also done the same. This is only going to hurt those who follow the system and have something come up, it's not going to hurt those who secure 14 different ADRs for each day of the trip.

luvmy2babies
10-13-2011, 08:40 AM
The only part that bothers me really is the 24 hour part. I understand the thing about anyone being able to claim illness, but after going on quite a few trips where neither my daughter nor I got sick, it happened to us. When we went last, we passed around a stomach bug. My son puked on me, then I threw up the next day. I thought my daughter would escape it and she was fine when she went to bed, but at 1am Thanksgiving morning, she threw up.

We had 2 reservations Thanksgiving day, a breakfast and a dinner. I paid for internet and cancelled the breakfast reservation at 4am, 5 hours before the reservation time. I cancelled the other around noon that day, again 5 hours before the time. Had this policy been in effect then (and they decided not to waive the fee) I would have been out $60. I was already losing money because we had the dining plan. Now that's a risk I'm willing to take to have meals prepaid, but I feel I'd suffered enough leaving two TS credits on the table. Losing another $60 when I cancelled one reservation before the restaurant even opened and another hours before the meal time opened would have added insult to injury. I don't keep my children out late. I will not make a dinner reservation after 7. I usually shoot for 5:30 because that is what time we eat dinner at home.

Before the only one we booked that had this was Akershus because I didn't want to pre-pay for CRT (for that very reason). So if something went wrong, I'm out $30. I am definitely going to have to make some adjustments. I'm going to have to rethink my plan between now and December when my 180 day mark gets here. Before to avoid having an ADR every single day, I had 3 days where we tour only a half-day and have two ADRs and some days we would be in the park more with none. With this new policy I definitely don't want two reservations on the same day.

Not sure if it is status quo or not, but when I was fine one minute and puking outside at Toontown the next, it didn't seem to get anyone's attention. It was our first trip but that kind of said to me, "Oh, someone's puking at Disney…next."

Colleen27
10-13-2011, 08:42 AM
I'm kind of wondering what parents did when they booked CRT or Akershus and this situation came up. I've never seen any complaints about it. Maybe that's just because there are now more restaurants involved but I've never seen anyone say "I made this reservation for CRT, the kids were asleep and I didn't want to wake them up, but I had to because if we don't go we lose the payment for the entire meal."


When it is just one or two places that required the guarantee the odds are lower that something will happen. In the past we've had one, maybe two ADRs at restaurants with cancellation penalties for an entire trip. The expanded list means that we'll have one, occasionally two, per day. So yeah, for me it is that more restaurants are involved.

We did have a problem come up with Akershus once, when one person out of the five of us was still too sick to make it, and we weren't charged for his absence. We just explained what happened to the hostess and she took care of it. But I suspect that with so many more meals requiring a CC and imposing fees, Disney will have little choice but to crack down on those exceptions or the policy will become meaningless as word gets out about how to get around it, just as the restrictions on double booking in the ADR system did.

MELSMICE
10-13-2011, 08:43 AM
So if I stay out late at a park and don't make it for an early ADR - cha-ching. If I have a big breakfast and don't feel like having lunch at the 11:30 time I made the ADR 6 months ago - eat to make yourself sick or cha-ching. Or after forking over hundred of dollars for food over a week I might just get tired of eating by the end of the week and want something smaller at a QS place instead of another character buffet. I had better decide I'm tired of eating at least 24 hours ahead of time or my QS meal will essentially cost me $20 ($10 QS + $10 no-show fee). If your small child is zonked out in a nap - better wake them up and have a miserable night with tired and cranky kids to make your 5:30 ADR or cha-ching.
That is not Disney's fault or anyone else's. Why should someone book an ADR & then all of a sudden decide that they were out too late the night before so they're just not going to show up, thus, penalizing someone else who may have wanted that ADR........or walk up guests.

That's the "it's all about me mentality" IMO.
I worry mostly about if all the party doesn't show up....... this upcoming trip, have another family with us... so party of 8. I can totally see them wanting to sleep in and skip breakfast a day or two... so okay, just my family of 4 shows up - but it would be me booking the ADR, my credit card... I show up, and I get charged for the family of 4 with us who couldn't get out of bed!

Or I book 180 days in advance, and local family shows up on weekend of our trip each time. I'll book them with us for meals for Fri, Sat and Sun..... but don't know for sure till weeks ahead.. will they be there all three days, only two of those days? So means me going to ADR missing people again... and hopefully not getting charged.
It looks like people will have to tell their guests that they either have to be there or it will cost them $10 if they decide not to join the party. The other option is to tell them, "We have ADR's & we will meet you when we're done eating".

And I so see this happening. People struggling with exhausted and overstimulated children at dinner because they didn't want to cough up $40 for services not rendered. And I wouldn't blame them at all. Unfortunately it won't just be the parents and the children having a miserable night. I very much doubt the diners around them will be having a wonderful experience.:sad2:
Again.......no one else's fault and certainly not Disney's fault. (see response below.......I completely agree with that!)

There are tired and cranky children the way things are now, without the credit card guarantee. And most Disney restaurants are so noisy to begin with that a tired child is hardly going to register. If you have a child that is out of control they are so tired then yes, you need to suck it up and lose the $40, and put it down to being a good parent.

People seem to be forgetting that this isn't happening at all restaurants anyway. If the idea of a guarantee bothers you, then avoid those restaurants that have it. Problem solved.

Honestly, if you over-do things so much that you are skipping out on one or two ADRs a trip, you are part of the problem WDW is trying to solve. Kids don't get sick that often on trips, and if you are pushing them so hard that they are basket cases by the time dinner rolls around, then you need to step back and re-evaluate how you are touring the parks. And what you are expecting from your child. Kids get tired beyond belief and they get sick, but it shouldn't be the status quo. And that is what some people are making it sound like.
Couldn't agree more.

It seems that many people are upset because they may miss an ADR because of sickness, being tired, cranky kids, relatives not showing up or wanting to do something different.

With the exception of sickness, these are poor excuses. You can also make an ADR an many restaurants without the cancellation policy.

MELSMICE
10-13-2011, 08:46 AM
Originally Posted by nancytoby
Of course, if they wouldn't charge for wifi in the rooms, I'd be quite happy to make my ADRs for that day every morning from the resort room....
I read on Twitter last night that this is something they are considering.

NLD
10-13-2011, 08:53 AM
I am trying my best to see how this is a bad thing. For those of you against it as you say you can't know 24 hours prior whether you will show, what have you done in the past.

I have been on two Disney trips as an adult. Trip #1--we booked one ADR per day, for a total of 7 ADRs. We missed one of those in the middle of the trip because my daughter fell asleep exhausted on the afternoon break and could not be woken up. I called and canceled. Trip #2--just my sister and me, two adults--we booked four ADRs for the whole trip, because now, by trip #2, I knew I didn't like being tied to lots of ADRs. I got incredibly sick our last night very suddenly (think it was food poisoning CS) and threw up repeatedly. We cancelled our ADR for that night.

Neither of those situations presented themselves 24 hours in advance.

And before anyone "goes there," I will resent any implication that I'm a bad parent because my daughter got so tired on her first trip to Disney that she needed to sleep through an ADR.


Have you been not showing up or cancelling at the last minute and letting tables set empty, preventing others from dining, costing Disney lost revenue which results in higher prices for you and the rest of us.

See above. Canceled last minute both times, for reasons that could not be anticipated 24 hours in advance. I did call and cancel both times. (Guess what? Under the new policy I'd get charged whether I had called or just no-showed. Kind of removes the incentive to pick up the phone and let them know we won't be making it. If I get charged for calling and cancelling three hours in advance, and I get charged for just no-showing, might as well no-show and not even bother with the call...)

Honestly and I am not judging, I just can't seem to grasp not living in a world where this is already common practice.

It has NOT been common practice for me to make an ADR that I don't expect to make, or book multiple unneeded ADRs. I have never made an ADR I didn't expect to keep. I have never booked multiple ADRs and then no-showed or cancelled last minute just to have flexibility.

I HAVE missed ADRs (two in two trips) for reasons I could not anticipate 24 hours in advance.

I mean Disney has very strict policies for rooms cancellations that are much more expensive, require a credit card or debit, and much further out than 24 hours, how do you handle that?

We've purchased travel insurance both trips. (And got it again for our January trip.)

As another PP said, hey maybe this is yet ANOTHER way for Disney to make some money off us... dining insurance. :rolleyes1


This policy punishes ME, the person who honestly books as many ADRs as we expect to use, but then has something come up last-minute that makes it a wiser decision to skip the ADR.

People who double-book ADRs or make more than they expect to use can still do this. They just have to cancel some of them 24 hours in advance.

As for "just suck it up and get charged the no-show fee if your kid really can't make the ADR"--darn right. If my daughter is sick or just too tired and overstimulated, I'm not forcing her to go to Crystal Palace. You're right, that's what being a parent is, doing the best thing for your kid.

However I'm at a complete loss as to why I should just accept Disney charging me for this, for services not rendered.

Dis_Yoda
10-13-2011, 09:00 AM
If cancelling over 24 hours is really a problem - don't book at the places where this is in effect. There are still a bunch of places around the World where there won't be a $10 fee.

Colleen27
10-13-2011, 09:06 AM
There are tired and cranky children the way things are now, without the credit card guarantee. And most Disney restaurants are so noisy to begin with that a tired child is hardly going to register. If you have a child that is out of control they are so tired then yes, you need to suck it up and lose the $40, and put it down to being a good parent.

People seem to be forgetting that this isn't happening at all restaurants anyway. If the idea of a guarantee bothers you, then avoid those restaurants that have it. Problem solved.

Honestly, if you over-do things so much that you are skipping out on one or two ADRs a trip, you are part of the problem WDW is trying to solve. Kids don't get sick that often on trips, and if you are pushing them so hard that they are basket cases by the time dinner rolls around, then you need to step back and re-evaluate how you are touring the parks. And what you are expecting from your child. Kids get tired beyond belief and they get sick, but it shouldn't be the status quo. And that is what some people are making it sound like.

Yeah, there are tired and cranky kids now because some parents can't set aside their own priorities or don't want to leave a DDP TS credit on the table, and this policy is going to significantly increase the incentive for that behaviour.

Avoiding all of our favorite Disney restaurants is not solving the problem. The need to do so, or to stress out over what might happen to prevent us from getting to those meals, IS the problem.

I disagree about how common illness is at WDW, and it isn't just limited to kids (I've been sick at Disney more than all three of my kids combined ). It seems to be a pretty common part of our trips - once it was a migraine, once it was morning sickness, once it was a vicious 24hr stomach bug. But every winter there are literally DOZENS of threads full of reports about flu, norovirus, and other common illnesses going around at WDW. And that's just the communicable stuff, not chronic issues that people might have.

And I really don't think this policy is in response to people who make their ADRs in good faith but end up cancelling one or two on short notice over the course of a week; I think it has a lot more to do with people who book ADRs they can't possibly use just to avoid making decisions until they're in the moment. I think the system functioned well to compensate for the former with its built-in overbooking allowance, but that the latter skewed the numbers to an unacceptable degree. It is one of those internet things, where it used to be something only a few people thought to do but blew up as word spread - the DIS keeps a tight rein on discussing ways around Disney rules, but other forums, blogs, fan-written travel articles, and some travel agents are all out there recommending double booking and explaining how to get around the online system's pathetic attempts to prevent it.

Dis_Yoda
10-13-2011, 09:11 AM
List of all table service restaurants where there will be no fee:

ANIMAL KINGDOM
Rainforest Cafe
Yak and Yeti

DISNEY'S HOLLYWOOD STUDIOS
'50s Prime Time Cafe
Mama Melrose's
Sci-Fi Dine-In

EPCOT
Future World
Coral Reef

World Showcase
Biergarten
Bistro De Paris
Chefs de France
La Hacienda de San Angel
Nine Dragons
Restaurant Marrakesh
Rose and Crown
San Angel Inn
Teppan Edo
Tokyo Dining
Tutto Italia
Via Napoli

MAGIC KINGDOM
Liberty Tree Tavern
Plaza Restaurant
Tony's Town Square

RESORTS

ANIMAL KINGDOM LODGE
Boma
Sanaa

BEACH CLUB
Beaches and Cream

BOARDWALK
Big River Grille & Brewing Works
ESPN
Kouzzina

CARIBBEAN BEACH
Shutters at Old Port Royale

CONTEMPORARY/ BAY LAKE TOWER
The Wave

CORONADO SPRINGS
Maya Grill

DOLPHIN
Shula's Steak House
Todd English's bluezoo

FORT WILDERNESS
Trail's End Restaurant

GRAND FLORIDIAN RESORT AND SPA
Garden View Lounge
Grand Floridian Cafe

OLD KEY WEST
Olivia's Cafe

POLYNESIAN
Kona Cafe

PORT ORLEANS RESORT
Boatwright's

SARATOGA SPRINGS
Turf Club Bar and Grill

SWAN
Garden Grove Cafe
Il Mulino New York Trattoria
Kimonos Sushi Bar

WILDERNESS LODGE
Whispering Canyon Cafe

YACHT CLUB
Captain's Grille

DOWNTOWN DISNEY
Marketplace
Cap'n Jack's Restaurant
Fulton's Crab House
Rainforest Cafe
T-Rex

Pleasure Island
Paradiso 37 (4/11)
Planet Hollywood
Portobello
Raglan Road

West Side
Bongos Cuban Cafe
House of Blues
Wolfgang Puck Cafe
Wolfgang Puck's "The Dining Room" (Upstairs)

To me that seems like a very varied list.

nkereina
10-13-2011, 09:11 AM
The only way this will cost you money is if you don't show up - I love this , and it would only encourage me to DxDP .... It seems like a lot of people on this thread have a lot of health problems in their Disney experiences - I always keep my family hydrated, sun screened up and liberally dole out handsanitizer - never had a serious illness - I'm sure they could happen but people in this thread seem to be implying that they are struck down with immobilizing illnesses like every trip :sad2:.....

I agree a lot of people may beef up the illnesses to justify cancelling ADRs, but after getting sick on my last trip, I can assure you it happens when you least expect it! I exercise daily, take vitamins, and eat well and on our last trip at the end of the week I contracted a cough and fever and did not want to get out of bed. On our last morning, I just wanted to sleep until we had to get on the plane and was not about to go to Ohana at 10am for our breakfast. So we cancelled at about 8am. Now, I'll have to pay too if they decide not to give me a courtesy pass for the $10. And for the record, I went to the Dr. when I got home and I had pneumonia.

I think the people who are concerned about not making their reservations (or not knowing within 24 hours if they can make it) should simply book at one of the long list of restaurants that apparently will not be subject to this policy. Problem solved.


If cancelling over 24 hours is really a problem - don't book at the places where this is in effect. There are still a bunch of places around the World where there won't be a $10 fee.

Why should those of us who want flexibility on our vacations be exempt from eating at the "popular" and "fan favorite" restaurants? If I don't feel like going all the way to Poly to eat at Ohana on a rainy night and would rather stay in and get pizza, I don't have that choice now.

Colleen27
10-13-2011, 09:18 AM
And I so see this happening. People struggling with exhausted and overstimulated children at dinner because they didn't want to cough up $40 for services not rendered. And I wouldn't blame them at all. Unfortunately it won't just be the parents and the children having a miserable night. I very much doubt the diners around them will be having a wonderful experience.:sad2:

Yep, and that will only add fuel to the "no kids at signatures" fire because every single one is included in this policy. :sad2: It won't be such an issue at character meals because they're so noisy and chaotic to begin with, but I don't want to be next to the family who decided to keep their Jiko reservation with a cranky, overtired, or sick child rather than pay the fee to cancel.

Lyndria
10-13-2011, 09:42 AM
I remember the video phones underneath SE!!!!

Me too! As a 15 year old kid, I thought those things were so cool!

As I am reading through this thread, I do agree with the posters who say decrease the window. I think a 3-4 hour window is plenty of time to cancel, instead of 24 hours.


Off to finish reading the thread.....

Lewisc
10-13-2011, 09:55 AM
I can't think of any other vacation destinations where guests are expected to make reservations for meals 6 months in advance. Where guests see the need to double book and otherwise make reservations "on spec" just in case.

There is no excuse for Disney overbooking restaurants with a credit card guarantee. It's nothing but greed if people have to wait more then a few minutes to be seated.






I'm kind of wondering what parents did when they booked CRT or Akershus and this situation came up. I've never seen any complaints about it. Maybe that's just because there are now more restaurants involved but I've never seen anyone say "I made this reservation for CRT, the kids were asleep and I didn't want to wake them up, but I had to because if we don't go we lose the payment for the entire meal."


And yes, the effect is that if you don't want to take the chance that you won't show up for the meal or be able to cancel, you will need to forego making ADRs for any of the restaurants on the list, including character or signature dining, as of October 26. I can't see that it's stopped a lot of guests from booking CRT or Akershus or California Grill though.



Thyway.


CRT was a "highlight" meal. Chances are you'll go even if someone in your family isn't feeling well. Planning your day you're likely to "block out" enough time. During the course of a Disney trip there will be times you want to skip a meal you had planned. Longer lines. Tired. Some feels a little sick. Under the new policy people who book signature/character meals ever day might get burned.

News Flash: Disney announces more restrictive policy for guests that will mean more money for Disney: Disney fans cheer!

I really dont see how this is anything to get excited about. What is the net benefit to the public? Are there really that many people convinced that ADR hoarding is going on? Do you really expect to see any personal benefit from this change? It just made your future trips potentially more difficult to navigate, not easier.


Some people think ADRs, and even walkup, will be easier to get. Some people think the "no show" penalty will reduce the amount of overbooking by Disney. This might result in shorter wait.

Of course, if they wouldn't charge for wifi in the rooms, I'd be quite happy to make my ADRs for that day every morning from the resort room.... just sayin'. I just don't want to sit on hold or have to navigate a telephone tree or discuss 4 different restaurant options first thing in the morning while my kids are still trying to sleep!

They don't have to offer free wifi. Many hotels, which charge for internet access, lets you browse a few sites without paying. Disney could charge for Wifi but not charge if you want to access a resort, or even a general Disney, website.

kaytieeldr
10-13-2011, 09:55 AM
Disney should just only take ADRs 24 hours ahead of time. Why don't they do that? They could have kiosks set up in the parks where you could make an ADR for w/in the next 24 hour period and also keep the online and phone ADR resie systems, but you can't book until the 24 hour window.

Twenty-four hour reservations would be fine with me. Heck, they might even be actual reservations, not ADRs... I miss the video phones in SpaceShip Earth and World Showcase (near Germany), too!

But even now, you don't need kiosks. Oh, sure, there's one in DHS; but you can go to any WDW restaurant and make an ADR for any other available restaurant now. The entire reservation system is linked.

MamaJessie
10-13-2011, 10:04 AM
So, now, If I find out I have no appetite shortly before my ADR (which happens), I have to either order and pay for food that will go in the trash (thus taking up server, host(ess), chef time and materials), or pay $10 pp?

And all that, and this is still not going to stop the ADR hoarders.
Even if it doesn't stop the hoarders,maybe it will stop the people that make ADRs and then cancel last minute because they aren't hungry ;)

Why should those of us who want flexibility on our vacations be exempt from eating at the "popular" and "fan favorite" restaurants? If I don't feel like going all the way to Poly to eat at Ohana on a rainy night and would rather stay in and get pizza, I don't have that choice now.
Why should my family not be able to dine at Ohana because I can't get a ADR because someone wants a back up plan? I don't understand why you (not you specifically, anyone) would make ADRs but then want to be able to spontaneously change your mind.

Cafeen
10-13-2011, 10:05 AM
That is not Disney's fault or anyone else's. Why should someone book an ADR & then all of a sudden decide that they were out too late the night before so they're just not going to show up, thus, penalizing someone else who may have wanted that ADR........or walk up guests.

That's the "it's all about me mentality" IMO.

It looks like people will have to tell their guests that they either have to be there or it will cost them $10 if they decide not to join the party. The other option is to tell them, "We have ADR's & we will meet you when we're done eating".


Again.......no one else's fault and certainly not Disney's fault. (see response below.......I completely agree with that!)


Couldn't agree more.

It seems that many people are upset because they may miss an ADR because of sickness, being tired, cranky kids, relatives not showing up or wanting to do something different.

With the exception of sickness, these are poor excuses. You can also make an ADR an many restaurants without the cancellation policy.
Pfft, sickness isn't Disney's fault either, so that shouldn't be an excuse!

How many first timers do you think know what level of stimulation, energy, and all the rest their children are going to have? This policy is punishing those first timers more than veterans, simply because they have 0 benchmarks to base their plan on. They could plan to do a Chef Mickey's breakfast, then an early CP dinner on their first day, then not be able to do CP due to exhaustion or stimulation, something they had absolutely no way of knowing beforehand.

It is Disney's fault? No, but to place the blame straight on the parents is also wrong.


List of all table service restaurants where there will be no fee:

ANIMAL KINGDOM
Rainforest Cafe
Yak and Yeti

DISNEY'S HOLLYWOOD STUDIOS
'50s Prime Time Cafe
Mama Melrose's
Sci-Fi Dine-In

EPCOT
Future World
Coral Reef

World Showcase
Biergarten
Bistro De Paris
Chefs de France
La Hacienda de San Angel
Nine Dragons
Restaurant Marrakesh
Rose and Crown
San Angel Inn
Teppan Edo
Tokyo Dining
Tutto Italia
Via Napoli

MAGIC KINGDOM
Liberty Tree Tavern
Plaza Restaurant
Tony's Town Square

RESORTS

ANIMAL KINGDOM LODGE
Boma
Sanaa

BEACH CLUB
Beaches and Cream

BOARDWALK
Big River Grille & Brewing Works
ESPN
Kouzzina

CARIBBEAN BEACH
Shutters at Old Port Royale

CONTEMPORARY/ BAY LAKE TOWER
The Wave

CORONADO SPRINGS
Maya Grill

DOLPHIN
Shula's Steak House
Todd English's bluezoo

FORT WILDERNESS
Trail's End Restaurant

GRAND FLORIDIAN RESORT AND SPA
Garden View Lounge
Grand Floridian Cafe

OLD KEY WEST
Olivia's Cafe

POLYNESIAN
Kona Cafe

PORT ORLEANS RESORT
Boatwright's

SARATOGA SPRINGS
Turf Club Bar and Grill

SWAN
Garden Grove Cafe
Il Mulino New York Trattoria
Kimonos Sushi Bar

WILDERNESS LODGE
Whispering Canyon Cafe

YACHT CLUB
Captain's Grille

DOWNTOWN DISNEY
Marketplace
Cap'n Jack's Restaurant
Fulton's Crab House
Rainforest Cafe
T-Rex

Pleasure Island
Paradiso 37 (4/11)
Planet Hollywood
Portobello
Raglan Road

West Side
Bongos Cuban Cafe
House of Blues
Wolfgang Puck Cafe
Wolfgang Puck's "The Dining Room" (Upstairs)

To me that seems like a very varied list.
Point out a single DDP Signature or Character Meal there please.

It's ok... I'll wait.

Oh, that's right, I'm excluded from those two experiences because I do not wish to make a guaranteed ADR (for whatever reasons). The numbers do not tell the whole story. Yes, the list of off guarantee is longer, but the content is far different, and it's the bread & butter content (Character Meals and Signatures (typically higher quality) of the on-guarantee locations vs the standard content of the off.

There is also the issue that many of the posters here, and in the other threads, are pushing for this for ALL restaurants. It's mentioned many times in this thread alone. Depending on how this works out, this could entirely be a possibility, turning a relatively minor annoyance and inconvenience into something much larger. If we don't make a stink about it now, when it does grow, who are we to blame?

And again, the added inconvenience and annoyance will not hinder those it was aimed for at all. The only ones it's going to catch are the normal people who have something unexpected come up.

And don't count on "My child was sick" being excluded either. "Extreme circumstances" is the official wording, so this may be relegated to getting suck on transportation, rides, or other areas where Disney itself is the cause. That, plus the "black mark" for the Guest Recovery thing, and I wouldn't count on being able to do it multiple times (even spread over multiple trips). We assume that illness is "covered", but it could just as easily not be.

kaytieeldr
10-13-2011, 10:10 AM
I get that they want to cut down on multiple bookings, but this wont correct that problem. You could still make 2 ADRs for the same day and time, just make sure at least one is not on the magic list.
What they should have done is block people from making more than one "dinner" reservation per night per person. (So if you have4 in your party you could still do 2 and2 in case you split up). Only trouble with that is, they cant make any $ for NOTHING.
sorry, but I see this as a way to take advantage of people.

I genuinely don't think Disney is doing this to male money. They already tried warning people - through CMs or computer alerts, depending how the ADR is made - of conflicting reservations. That didn't stop people from making multiple bookings... and them you do have the guests doing that for sensible reasons like not everyone eating together.




Sometimes the only way to get a message across is through someone's wallet. Question for the posters who think this isn't fair, or it's a money-grab: how would YOU prevent the multiple-booking and no-show problem?

Cafeen
10-13-2011, 10:14 AM
Even if it doesn't stop the hoarders,maybe it will stop the people that make ADRs and then cancel last minute because they aren't hungry ;)
Yep, that's what Disney wants to do. Stop the first timers and those that attempt to follow the system, only to have unexpected things come up from going to Disney in the first place. Great business planning ;).

SmallWorld71
10-13-2011, 10:14 AM
If cancelling over 24 hours is really a problem - don't book at the places where this is in effect. There are still a bunch of places around the World where there won't be a $10 fee.

For now. My guess is that if this is a success for Disney, we will see more places follow. There are plenty of restaurants on the no fee list that are popular and crowded and have people trying to get in with no luck. Sci-Fi is the first one that comes to my mind - I've seen lots of angry people turned away from there.

While I don't see this policy as having a big effect on me, personally, I think it's opening up a can of worms and don't like it. We'll see.....

amym2
10-13-2011, 10:15 AM
My guess is that Disney claims the 24 hour cancellation policy, but anyone who actually calls to cancel won't be charged. They're trying to cut down on the number of people who don't bother to cancel, which I applaud. Of course there are reasons for people to cancel, and I have total faith that Disney will understand that and it won't be an issue. But I guess we'll see once the policy goes into effect!

NLD
10-13-2011, 10:18 AM
Here's what I don't understand: the animosity towards the people who only book reservations they think they'll make, but then don't show up (or cancel with only a couple hours notice).

If I make ONE ADR for a specific date--an ADR I fully intend to keep--that is one less spot at that restaurant for other people trying to book.

It is one less spot REGARDLESS of whether I ultimately keep the ADR or something comes up last minute and we don't keep it.

The night my family did not make it to a TS in Hollywood Studios... that spot was GONE already. If we had showed up for it, other people couldn't eat there anyway. In fact, it's possible we did some family a FAVOR and someone got a walk-up by us not keeping that ADR, because I called to cancel a couple hours ahead.

What hurts us all are the people that book multiple ADRs, knowing they won't use them all, months in advance. And it especially hurts when they book those multiple ADRs and then don't bother to even call and cancel.

Me booking a ADR for Crystal Palace that I fully intend to keep, and then getting sick and deciding it's better not to go, is not the problem.

The problem is people who hoard ADRs with no intention of keeping a bunch of them.

But this policy hurts people who are NOT the problem.

MamaJessie
10-13-2011, 10:24 AM
Yep, that's what Disney wants to do. Stop the first timers and those that attempt to follow the system, only to have unexpected things come up from going to Disney in the first place. Great business planning ;).
I honestly don't even understand what you are trying to say. I''m not being snarky, just can't figure it out.

kaytieeldr
10-13-2011, 10:26 AM
No, I cancel in the morning, as soon as we decide we've changed our plans (and that's for a dinner ADR).

And these restaurants are the most popular--they turn walk ups away. Even when we travel in the slowest weeks of January, they are packed and have a wait. Those tables are NOT going empty.

And as for living in a world where this is not the norm, I don't think anywhere in Houston, TX would charge me if I canceled a reservation the morning of.
I. Couldn't find anyplace in Houston (but one place in New York charges $150 per no-show diner, and another charges $175!); but I did find this http://m.eater.com/archives/2011/09/30/chefs-and-restaurateurs-weigh-in-on-noshow-customers.php#mobify-bookmark, where some chefs/restaurateurs weigh in. I know there are Boston restaurants that dp the same thing - but charge more than $10 PP but far more reasonably than $150!

Uncleromulus
10-13-2011, 10:26 AM
Was on vacation and missed this thread!!

But now seeing it, I say it's about time!! The whole double (and even triple) booking with little or no intention of showing up has prevented lots of folks who really want to eat dinner from being able to get reservations. Ditto for those with reservations who suddenly change their mind because something more convenient than eating has come up.

I'm sure that Disney will make it quite clear to EVERYONE who makes a reervation what the new policy is--so there shoud be no "I didn't know" excuses.

PS Wonder why the non-Disney signatures (Blue Zoo, Shula's ,etc) are exempt? They use the same reservation system---

charlielinda
10-13-2011, 10:36 AM
I love the new policy. We decide to take a last minute trip and weren't able to get reservations for any of the signature restaurants because of folks making multiple reservations. Disney has tried to stop the practice with the on-line system but it seems that some folks create multiple accounts and absue the system. I for one is happy about the new policy.

kaytieeldr
10-13-2011, 10:44 AM
So if I stay out late at a park and don't make it for an early ADR - cha-ching. If I have a big breakfast and don't feel like having lunch at the 11:30 time I made the ADR 6 months ago - eat to make yourself sick or cha-ching. That sounds like poor planning more than anything else. Even with the earliest in-park reservation, you likely wouldn't be done eating until 8:45. Having a lunch reservation less than three hours later at a location that imposes a no-show fee doesn't seem reasonable. Even an early meal at a resort restaurant gives you less than four hours. Or after forking over hundred of dollars for food over a week I might just get tired of eating by the end of the week and want something smaller at a QS place instead of another character buffet. I had better decide I'm tired of eating at least 24 hours ahead of time or my QS meal will essentially cost me $20 ($10 QS + $10 no-show fee). If your small child is zonked out in a nap - better wake them up and have a miserable night with tired and cranky kids to make your 5:30 ADR or cha-ching. Well, it's not unreasonable to expect that someone would realize they're getting tired of big meals, and start adjusting their plans. Or keep an ADR and just have a salad; heck, I think the steak salad appetizer and Ger's Bread Pudding ad Raglan Road is the perfect meal ;)!

I would like to hear how this will enhance the customer experience - you still won't be able to make ADRs ahead of time because the multi-bookers won't cancel until the last minute. Guests who couldn't plan ahead - local residents, uninformed visitors - and guests who couldn't get reservations far in advance in large part due to the multi-bookers, will now be able to call Disney Dining, or go to Resort Concierge or Park Guest Services, or walk into any restaurant the day before they want to eat somewhere and get an ADR. Okay, not 100% guaranteed - but the likelihood greatly increases with a no-show fee.

Tricia1972
10-13-2011, 10:45 AM
I don't think that it will stop hoarders. I believe that this will, however, create a lot of availability for folks when they are on vacation. You'll be able to more easily call a day ahead and get that Crystal Palace or LeCellier that you couldn't reserve before your trip.

I believe that the hoarder will call and cancel the day before. They intentionally overbooked and don't want to get stuck being billed. Though, on the flip side, those that have booked with the full intention of going but have illness/tantrums/exhaustion that just come up will end up paying the $$ to Disney.

Cafeen
10-13-2011, 10:49 AM
I honestly don't even understand what you are trying to say. I''m not being snarky, just can't figure it out.
First timers. They aren't going to know how stimulated or exhausted them or their children will be, hence they're not going to plan out the meals ideally. Add to that, the fact that they're less likely to know the exclusions are in place, and they're going to get hit more than veterans.

Unexpected stuff. Since the time is 24 hours, there are often times things just happen within the same day as an ADR. Oversleeping happens, kids get overstimulated, "just not hungry", or what-not. Without being able to cancel the same day, these people will also be hit with the charge.

For example, back over at Yachtsman and I figure out I'm not hungry. Right now, I can call that day and cancel without any issue. Under the upcoming policy, even if I call several hours ahead of time, I cannot. Add to that, the fact that even if I show up, but refuse to order anything (see an earlier example here) because I am not hungry, I could still be charged as a No Show and you should start to see why my desire to make signature ADRs start to wane.

Keep in mind that, as it sits now, the policy is not ONLY for those that don't show up, but also for those that cancel the same day. So if I wake up in the morning with my back hurting and decide to sleep it off some, I'm out $10 for breakfast, whether I call or not. So what's the impetus to call?

Now, if I were an ADR hoarder (which I'm not, even though some make me out to be ;)), I've already found a very simple way around this whole thing. I won't go into detail, but suffice to say, it's VERY easy and pretty intuitive. This means that I can still double, triple, multi-book to my heart's content, with total impunity from these charges. Even without that simple work around, I can still hoard ADRs and not get charged if I simply cancel the day before.

So, for those that do book all the extra meals, they can still easily keep doing what they're doing. For those where the unexpected comes up, they're now penalized for those happenings.

Hence, it punishes the first timers (who lack knowledge and/or experience) and those with good intentions that (for whatever reason) something comes up, but leaves the problem people alone.

The stopping from going altogether is an extrapolation of this, since they're going to be charged extra for good intentions, they may as well not go in the first place. Of course, the first timers would less likely know this, and would more likely just not return.

TBH, I'm already considering dropping my normal 10 day DxDDP trips in favor of a 5-6 day, OOP trip, and the signature thing does factor into this decision. While I am theorizing and extrapolating some, it IS being factored into my future trip plans already.

And for those thinking that they'll suddenly get walk-ups or 24 hour notice ADRs, I wouldn't get my hopes up. Even getting 'Ohana at 160 days out is not likely to be any easier with this in place. I could be wrong, and if so, I'll gladly admit it, but I wouldn't get too excited just yet.

kaytieeldr
10-13-2011, 11:14 AM
What you say is so true! Some parents will bring the tired/cranky child along so that the parents don't miss out on the dining experience. Haven't we all overheard conversations like this? I made these reservations 6 months ago! We're going! You'll be fine! You just need to eat!

And you'll LIKE it! :rotfl:

kaytieeldr
10-13-2011, 11:28 AM
News Flash: Disney announces more restrictive policy for guests that will mean more money for Disney: Disney fans cheer!

News Flash Update: Disney research shows guests adhere to policies better when not doing so affects them financially.


I didn't quote the entire post, but most of the 'reasons' given for not showing up or canceling last minute are really just choices. When somebody makes a reservation - in this case, extreme call-ahead seating - they expect to get a table, food, and service at the location within a reasonable time of the ADR. Why shouldn't the restaurant expect that business, and if not that no-show's patronage, another customer's?

Fair's fair. You can't be in two places at once, whether it's two restaurants, or a restaurant and a ride, or your room and a restaurant...

lebeau
10-13-2011, 11:30 AM
I say Boo! Big thumbs down from me.

I'm still stinging from an experience at the Royal Akerhaus a few years ago. We were stuck in a non-stop rainstorm. The kids were wet and complaining. The stroller was soaked. We just wanted to go home. I tried to move my ADR up, but they couldn't accomodate us.

Finally, I decided to bite the bullet and cancel. Keeping the reservation wasn't worth an angry wife and two crying kids - much less the chance of them getting sick in the rain. I knew there would be a cancellation fee. I was prepared to eat the $30 for myself, my wife and the 5-year-old. I was not at all prepared for the extra $10 Disney charged me for the cancellation for the 1-year-old who would not have even had to pay for her meal.

I know people around here are going to cheer the closing of loopholes for the small number of people who "cheat" the systems. But sometimes things happen and you have to cancel a meal in less than 24-hours. I see this as just another nail in the coffin of spontinaity at Disney World. I will be less likely to book at these restaurants in the future.

I'm pretty passionate about this policy. Having thought about it for an additional 24-hours, my thoughts have crystalized. This feels like a cash grab with no benefit to guests. I have written up my full thoughts (http://lebeauleblog.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/disney-dining-cash-grab/) on the subject at my blog.

nkereina
10-13-2011, 11:44 AM
Even if it doesn't stop the hoarders,maybe it will stop the people that make ADRs and then cancel last minute because they aren't hungry ;)


So people should eat when they aren't hungry just so people don't get annoyed they canceled an ADR last minute? :sad2:

Why should my family not be able to dine at Ohana because I can't get a ADR because someone wants a back up plan? I don't understand why you (not you specifically, anyone) would make ADRs but then want to be able to spontaneously change your mind.

I never make ADR backup plans, I never double book and I never "no show" for an ADR - I always have my smart phone to cancel an ADR if needed. There are always at least 1-2 instances per trip where I cancel an ADR within a few hours notice. That is my prerogative, and I am abiding by all rules. Times I cancel are when we don't want to return to a certain park later in the day (crowds, weather, sick of it, etc), if we are overly tired or the weather is bad and we just want to stay in, if we say HEY lets go to Epcot tonight instead of MK which I am allowed to do considering I just paid $3K+ for this vacation!!! Nobody in "real life" has every minute of every day planned to a T where nothing ever interferes, I don't know why it would be any different on vacation. And besides, who wants to go on a vacation where they have to follow a rigid schedule or suffer the consequences?

kaytieeldr
10-13-2011, 11:51 AM
Finally, I decided to bite the bullet and cancel. Keeping the reservation wasn't worth an angry wife and two crying kids - much less the chance of them getting sick in the rain. Just for future reference, you - they - won't get sick from being wet, even drenched, by rain as long as you're otherwise healthy. Illness is caused by germs, bacteria, viruses. While being unintentionally wet from the rain is annoying, it's not unhealthy.

Colleen27
10-13-2011, 11:54 AM
Sometimes the only way to get a message across is through someone's wallet. Question for the posters who think this isn't fair, or it's a money-grab: how would YOU prevent the multiple-booking and no-show problem?

I'm all for a no-show fee. I just think a 24hr window for cancellations is excessive because of all the reasons already brought up - illness, travel delay, weather, etc. that don't necessarily give a 24hr heads up. The ADR system recognizes cancelled reservations as available immediately, so the tech is there for a system that would allow for more flexibility to deal with the unexpected by implementing a shorter cancellation period.

eliza61
10-13-2011, 12:02 PM
Frustrated restaurateurs reserve right to charge fees for no-shows
http://www.nrn.com/article/frustrated-restaurateurs-reserve-right-charge-fees-no-shows


Nojo: Charging for no-shows
http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2011/07/18/nojo-charging-for-no-shows/


Chefs and Restaurateurs Weigh In on No-Show Customers
http://eater.com/archives/2011/09/30/chefs-and-restaurateurs-weigh-in-on-noshow-customers.php

If Disney has lousy food then why would you care if they do this since you would not be dining there anyway. It is only 19 restaurants out of hundreds, I don't think anyone will not be able to find places to eat if they avoid these restaurants due to the policy.

DisneyKevin of the Podcast Team and who does many of the wonderful restaurant reviews for the DIS has shared his thoughts in this thread and pretty much very succiently explained the point I have tried to make, that this is not uncommon policy.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2815922

Actually I really don't care. I was just contributing to the general theme of the conversation.

And your links kind of prove what I was saying. for the most part restaurants don't charge for no shows. If you notice all the articles make some type of reference to this being "new" policy. Also the article with the chefs complaining. not one of them mentioned even thinking about adding a fee.
The one guy who was from Jersey and said it maybe a good idea also mentioned he wouldn't risk ticking off return customers.
Summary: they may not like "no shows" but they are not about to potentially invite bad will but trying to enforce a no show charge.

Llastly supposedly reservations are different from ADR's according to disney an adr does not "hold" open and empty table. they will seat you at the first available table. that is a bit different than holding open a table thereby losing revenue. according to disney they don't do this.

Now I don't know about the west coast but in NY and Philly, its uncommon.

But you are right, I have no pony in this race. I will still make a few adr's, I have double booked I try not to but I have done it (and this new policy does nothing to stop that) and I have a car when I travel so this new policy really doesnt effect me.

I'll leave now

CandleontheWater
10-13-2011, 12:07 PM
I think what really gets me is that this change (and others that Disney has instituted recently) is taking the "vacation" out of a Disney vacation.

Now, instead of absorbing the magic, and enjoying my time without a care in the world (which is what a vacation is supposed to be about, right?), I have to be watching the clock, militantly herding everyone over to the restaurant at the prescribed time. This is sounding more like work than my average day at work.

I understand that people are angry when they can't get into the restaurants they want. I take many last minute vacations, and I understand the frustration, but I still don't see how this is a good change. It will be nice if I can book CP at 2 months out, but it won't be nice when I get the park and have the threat of a dining penalty hanging over my head if something veers off track.

Disney has other options to handle this, and I don't understand why they haven't taken advantage of it. I'm sure that they have statistics that break down what percentage of ADRs are no shows, and can use that knowledge to better manage the dining situation on property. Instead of using the information they have at hand to work to make the situation better for guests, they instead decide to institute a restrictive, revenue generating policy that penalizes guests.

Other restaurants around the globe manage to integrate a reservation system with walk up diners and staff accordingly without inconveniencing guests. I would expect as much from a leader in the hospitality industry.

Maybe it is morally wrong to make an ADR and not show up, regardless of the reason, but that is not why Disney created this policy. Disney does not care about the DIS morality police, they care about creating revenue with the least inconvenience to them, and this is once instance where it has the potential to hurt many guests.

ccgirl
10-13-2011, 12:11 PM
I'm really not seeing an issue here. If you don't like being tied to ADR's don't make them. If there is an unforseen sickness, call them with as much notice. For those vacations I don't want to interrupt our time in the park I either go for a CS meal or hope for a walk up. I actually consider it more relaxing to take time out of the touring and sit for a leisurely meal.

Bottom line, WDW is out to make money. That's what business is all about.

mcd2745
10-13-2011, 12:20 PM
I'm all for a no-show fee. I just think a 24hr window for cancellations is excessive because of all the reasons already brought up - illness, travel delay, weather, etc. that don't necessarily give a 24hr heads up. The ADR system recognizes cancelled reservations as available immediately, so the tech is there for a system that would allow for more flexibility to deal with the unexpected by implementing a shorter cancellation period.


The biggest problem with a cancellation window less than 24 hours are the breakfast reservations. If it were say a 3-hour cancellation window, you then would be able to cancel, let's say, an 8:30am ADR at Tusker House by 5:30am. So even if you wake up at 5am to cancel in time...how can they replace that party with walk-ups? There can't be any walk-ups because you can't get into the park without an ADR.

Tricia1972
10-13-2011, 12:36 PM
The biggest problem with a cancellation window less than 24 hours are the breakfast reservations. If it were say a 3-hour cancellation window, you then would be able to cancel, let's say, an 8:30am ADR at Tusker House by 5:30am. So even if you wake up at 5am to cancel in time...how can they replace that party with walk-ups? There can't be any walk-ups because you can't get into the park without an ADR.

There can never be a walk-up for a breakfast reservation, regardless if the poicy is 24 hours or not. As you said, you can't get into the park wtihout an ADR.

Walk-ups not being an issue, you can book online anytime day or night, so a person at Disney could grab the reservation online at 5am or they can call the call center when they open to try to grab a breakfast ADR.

lebeau
10-13-2011, 12:55 PM
Just for future reference, you - they - won't get sick from being wet, even drenched, by rain as long as you're otherwise healthy. Illness is caused by germs, bacteria, viruses. While being unintentionally wet from the rain is annoying, it's not unhealthy.

From an intellectual stand-point, I am aware of that. But emotionally, I still feel the need to get the kids out of the rain while they are shivering.

Old wives tales die hard!

eliza61
10-13-2011, 12:56 PM
Other restaurants around the globe manage to integrate a reservation system with walk up diners and staff accordingly without inconveniencing guests. I would expect as much from a leader in the hospitality industry.
Maybe it is morally wrong to make an ADR and not show up, regardless of the reason, but that is not why Disney created this policy. Disney does not care about the DIS morality police, they care about creating revenue with the least inconvenience to them, and this is once instance where it has the potential to hurt many guests.


Bottom line, WDW is out to make money. That's what business is all about.

ding, ding, ding. :thumbsup2

Sad thing about it IMO, I've read at least 3 threads where people are all ready thinking up ways to circumvent the system and knowing disneys track record with enforcing their rules (rarely to never). All I see this doing is being an inconvenience for the guest.

lebeau
10-13-2011, 12:58 PM
I don't know if this question has been answered yet in this thread, but I thought I'd share my findings.

I called the hotline and asked if some members of my party were no-shows and they didn't tell me so I could cancel, would I be charged. The answer was affirmative. :eek:

You will be charged for any members of your party who do not cancel 24-hours in advance. So be careful about making reservations that include unreliable friends and family! :scared1:

HelenParr
10-13-2011, 01:13 PM
My initial reaction was negative, almost exclusively because of the "what if I get sick last minute?" issue. My Yankee sensibility (read as I'm cheap) makes my cringe at losing $20 for two of us to cancel late for a legit reason...which is sort of insane since we usually stay a week at a Deluxe -- so another $20 is sort of lost in the mix. But it's the point of it.

But after reflection, I thought about the many times we had zero trouble walk-up to Flying Fish even though we could not get ADR day before or same day.

They have to find a way to "encourage" people to cancel if they are not going to show. It'll be interesting to see if it sticks. Could be a misfire on their part.

mcd2745
10-13-2011, 01:16 PM
I'm really not seeing an issue here. If you don't like being tied to ADR's don't make them.


:thumbsup2 Exactly.

If you fully intend to use all your ADRs, this policy should not bother you one bit. Seems like all the people playing the sick kids card here (and I have two young kids myself, 9 & 6 years old - so I'm not one of these persons who never had kids and who can't understand what that's like) remind me of all the people who would constantly bring up the split-parties card when there have been discussions here about the multiple-bookings. IMO, most of these people are just trying to find an excuse to justify and allow practices that they know deep down is wrong.

lebeau
10-13-2011, 01:27 PM
:thumbsup2 Exactly.

If you fully intend to use all your ADRs, this policy should not bother you one bit. Seems like all the people playing the sick kids card here (and I have two young kids myself, 9 & 6 years old - so I'm not one of these persons who never had kids and who can't understand what that's like) remind me of all the people who would constantly bring up the split-parties card when there have been discussions here about the multiple-bookings. IMO, most of these people are just trying to find an excuse to justify and allow practices that they know deep down is wrong.

The people who are cheating the system will continue to do so. They are saavy enough not to get charged the fees.

The fees will only hit the honest folks who fully intend to use all their ADRs and have a bit of bad luck.

Speaking as someone that has happened to in the past, it's not a magical experience at all. Especially when Disney charged me $10 for a baby who wouldn't even have eaten a meal. :scared1:

bookworm75
10-13-2011, 01:34 PM
I don't know if this question has been answered yet in this thread, but I thought I'd share my findings.

I called the hotline and asked if some members of my party were no-shows and they didn't tell me so I could cancel, would I be charged. The answer was affirmative. :eek:

You will be charged for any members of your party who do not cancel 24-hours in advance. So be careful about making reservations that include unreliable friends and family! :scared1:

I have been refreshing this thread all day to see this answer. This is my dilemma. We are planning to travel with family next May, so our 180 day is after the new policy takes effect. Two of the experiences we want are Chef Mickey and Ohana. I'll be making reservations for 7. Now, at this point in time, my DH and I believe there is a strong possibility that our family members will figure out that they cannot afford to go on the trip at all. But if you ask them right now, they insist they are going. Fast forward to April and they decide no, they aren't going. I will have two reservations for 7 at very popular restaurants that I can a) call Disney to cancel and try to rebook for 4, at which point I'll probably be out of luck or b) I can keep the reservations and pay $60 for my no-show guests (two meals). What other choice do I have? This is causing me more stress than it's worth. I'm upset that my options seem to be either lose out on experiences that we'd like to have, or pay extra to keep the ADRs I make in good faith 180 days out because that's the only chance I have to get in.

maxiesmom
10-13-2011, 01:36 PM
[QUOTE=lebeau;42933840.

I'm pretty passionate about this policy. Having thought about it for an additional 24-hours, my thoughts have crystalized. This feels like a cash grab with no benefit to guests. I have written up my full thoughts (http://lebeauleblog.wordpress.com/2011/10/13/disney-dining-cash-grab/) on the subject at my blog.[/QUOTE]

It has a huge benefit for guests. It will make getting an ADR easier, because people will be deterred from double-booking, or just plain not showing up for an ADR. It also gives hope to people doing walk-ups. I've been in many a Disney restaurant that was turning away guests, yet had empty tables.

The only way this is at all negative is if you make it a habit to not show up to ADRs. And that is the whole point of it! People need to stop booking meals they really don't want, just to have an ADR. Disney IS a business, and it is bad business to have empty tables, and yet be turning away guests.

If people were more responsible this wouldn't even be a problem. It was made an issue by people being thoughtless . Just my opinion.

mcd2745
10-13-2011, 01:40 PM
The people who are cheating the system will continue to do so. They are saavy enough not to get charged the fees.

The fees will only hit the honest folks who fully intend to use all their ADRs and have a bit of bad luck.

Speaking as someone that has happened to in the past, it's not a magical experience at all. Especially when Disney charged me $10 for a baby who wouldn't even have eaten a meal. :scared1:

I doubt all of them will. Many will not want to deal with the hassle of cancelling. But even for those who still do it and then cancel in time (and probably, many of them probably never bothered to canceled the "extra" ADRs in the past) that alone would be seen as an improvement. Also, many do it so that they can decide "day of" where they want to eat from amongst their multiple ADRs. Now, even those who continue to do it have to decide at least a day in advance. So their whole motivation to do it in the first-place gets compromised.

I gotta think Disney's main motivation here was to reduce the number of no-shows. Everyone has seen first-hand (I certainly have) or have read the numerous reports here of fully-booked restaurants with tons of empty tables. Yes, everything comes down to $$$. But I'm sure they would rather you show up at your ADR and spend $150-$200 than charge you a $40-$60 fee depending on how many in your party.

maxiesmom
10-13-2011, 01:44 PM
I have been refreshing this thread all day to see this answer. This is my dilemma. We are planning to travel with family next May, so our 180 day is after the new policy takes effect. Two of the experiences we want are Chef Mickey and Ohana. I'll be making reservations for 7. Now, at this point in time, my DH and I believe there is a strong possibility that our family members will figure out that they cannot afford to go on the trip at all. But if you ask them right now, they insist they are going. Fast forward to April and they decide no, they aren't going. I will have two reservations for 7 at very popular restaurants that I can a) call Disney to cancel and try to rebook for 4, at which point I'll probably be out of luck or b) I can keep the reservations and pay $60 for my no-show guests (two meals). What other choice do I have? This is causing me more stress than it's worth. I'm upset that my options seem to be either lose out on experiences that we'd like to have, or pay extra to keep the ADRs I make in good faith 180 days out because that's the only chance I have to get in.

Make 2 seperate ADRS for each place. You do one for your family, and the other family can make their own, but have them for as near to the same time as you can get. That way if they cancel you won't have to try and down-size your ADRs. And if they do end up going you can ask to be seated together.

bookworm75
10-13-2011, 01:53 PM
Make 2 seperate ADRS for each place. You do one for your family, and the other family can make their own, but have them for as near to the same time as you can get. That way if they cancel you won't have to try and down-size your ADRs. And if they do end up going you can ask to be seated together.

I didn't know the bolded was an option, so thank you for that. We might have to do it this way, but there are concerns there as well. One being they don't have a credit card (but they do have debit cards so I'll have to do more research as to how that might affect them). Another being that they've left it up to me to make reservations because they don't understand the system. I guess I could try to walk them through it on the phone while we're both online making reservations in the early morning hours of day 180. :rotfl:

ETA: We are sharing a DVC 2 bdrm and therefore have the same reservation number, would that cause a problem with us both making reservations for the same time? I apologize for my ignorance, I've always made just one reservation for the entire group before.

TDC Nala
10-13-2011, 01:57 PM
So is anyone here intending to stop booking reservations at character meals or signature restaurants? Le Cellier lunch? 'Ohana dinner? Most of you will probably still book them because you want them. Except if you don't want to pay $10 the option of just deciding you don't feel like going that day isn't there anymore.

Put that 407-WDW-CNCL or whatever it is number in your phone, and if you are sick or your child is sick on the same day call that number and explain why you are needing to cancel. That's the biggest difference is that you will now have to make a call to do that and explain to a cast member why you're cancelling on such short notice, then see if the cast member will waive the no show fee for you.

Disney apparently believes that they have now had too many guests who just did not show up to popular restaurants.

NLD
10-13-2011, 01:58 PM
I have been refreshing this thread all day to see this answer. This is my dilemma. We are planning to travel with family next May, so our 180 day is after the new policy takes effect. Two of the experiences we want are Chef Mickey and Ohana. I'll be making reservations for 7. Now, at this point in time, my DH and I believe there is a strong possibility that our family members will figure out that they cannot afford to go on the trip at all. But if you ask them right now, they insist they are going. Fast forward to April and they decide no, they aren't going. I will have two reservations for 7 at very popular restaurants that I can a) call Disney to cancel and try to rebook for 4, at which point I'll probably be out of luck or b) I can keep the reservations and pay $60 for my no-show guests (two meals). What other choice do I have? This is causing me more stress than it's worth. I'm upset that my options seem to be either lose out on experiences that we'd like to have, or pay extra to keep the ADRs I make in good faith 180 days out because that's the only chance I have to get in.

Ironically, with the new policy these kinds of situations could lead to people who wouldn't have double-booked ADRs to do exactly that. Because there is a solution, as has already been pointed out earlier...

Book two reservations, one for the larger party size and one for the smaller party size. Once you know for sure if your family is coming, cancel the one you don't need.

I am not saying this is the morally correct thing to do. I am not making a moral statement or judgment at all.

I am just saying that, if the point of this new system is to discourage double-bookings, it has just created a situation where people who wouldn't have done so in the past may now feel the need to double-book.

NLD
10-13-2011, 02:01 PM
Put that 407-WDW-CNCL or whatever it is number in your phone, and if you are sick or your child is sick on the same day call that number and explain why you are needing to cancel. That's the biggest difference is that you will now have to make a call to do that and explain to a cast member why you're cancelling on such short notice, then see if the cast member will waive the no show fee for you.

See, but that's NOT the biggest difference. In fact as far as I'm concerned, it's not even a difference at all. Because the two times I did not make ADRs in the past, I called. (I did NOT just no-show.)

The difference now is that I'm at the mercy of a CM to decide whether they'll waive the cancellation fee. And if the CM isn't willing to waive it, I'm out $$ for a meal I didn't attend.

THAT'S the difference.

Cafeen
10-13-2011, 02:05 PM
:thumbsup2 Exactly.

If you fully intend to use all your ADRs, this policy should not bother you one bit. Seems like all the people playing the sick kids card here (and I have two young kids myself, 9 & 6 years old - so I'm not one of these persons who never had kids and who can't understand what that's like) remind me of all the people who would constantly bring up the split-parties card when there have been discussions here about the multiple-bookings. IMO, most of these people are just trying to find an excuse to justify and allow practices that they know deep down is wrong.
The thing is, even if I fully intend to use the ADRs and something comes up, unless it comes up the day before, I'm out of money. Even if I call and cancel the same day, I'm getting charged.

Meanwhile, someone booking multiple reservations and canceling (or cheating the system in another way that's entirely possible), still hoards reservations and doesn't get charged.

How is this not punishing those attempting to be honest while having little to no effect on those abusing the system?

The people who are cheating the system will continue to do so. They are saavy enough not to get charged the fees.

The fees will only hit the honest folks who fully intend to use all their ADRs and have a bit of bad luck.

Speaking as someone that has happened to in the past, it's not a magical experience at all. Especially when Disney charged me $10 for a baby who wouldn't even have eaten a meal. :scared1:
Yep.

Gaming the system is very easy and this is only adding stress to those intending to work it properly.

Of course, you could just decide never to do a character meal again, since that's several people's solutions on here ;).

It has a huge benefit for guests. It will make getting an ADR easier, because people will be deterred from double-booking, or just plain not showing up for an ADR. It also gives hope to people doing walk-ups. I've been in many a Disney restaurant that was turning away guests, yet had empty tables.
I believe that most here are truly overestimating the effect this will have on reservations between 180 and 30 or so days out. There will still be people double-booking just like they do now, especially at the edge of the window. These are the first round that wait until hours are settled before deciding which to cancel. These people can, and will still do the same thing, without any deterrent, as they know they're going to cancel anyway. This means that getting that elusive 'Ohana dinner reservation is not going to magically become 100 times easier.

This "Magic Bullet" expectation is setting everyone up for disappointment (note: by far not just you, I've seen the same thing in MANY replies about just how easy it'll be to get a reservation, even people claiming 'Ohana at 5-10 days out should be cake).

The only way this is at all negative is if you make it a habit to not show up to ADRs. And that is the whole point of it! People need to stop booking meals they really don't want, just to have an ADR. Disney IS a business, and it is bad business to have empty tables, and yet be turning away guests.

If people were more responsible this wouldn't even be a problem. It was made an issue by people being thoughtless . Just my opinion.
So, (and nothing personal here) you are ok with locking people out of ALL character meals and sigs because either they did not want to be charged if the unexpected happened, or if they simply do not wish to give a CC number? Not just some, but EVERY SINGLE character meal and signature restaurant. This is one of the things that bothers me and I do consider it a negative.

The inflexibility of the system (and again, we don't know how often those Guest Recovery things will be given out, nor do we know the consequences of them) is also a negative. If I get the sniffles and my appetite goes away at noon, I'm not likely going to want to go to my 7pm ADR. However, if I'm going to be charged anyway, I may as well show up sick right? Don't worry, I'll at least bring a tissue.

Of course, if I weren't one that intended to use every ADR I've made, I'd have worked around this already, so I wouldn't be charged at all, and still would have blocked someone else from getting an ADR (or worse).

The poor implementation of this is what bothers me, and, I'm sure, several others. The intent is solid, and I think most of us agree, but the implementation of it is going to catch more of those following the "rules" than those abusing the system.

TDC Nala
10-13-2011, 02:06 PM
If this policy is intended to discourage double bookings, it will work at that only peripherally.

It's really intended to prevent guests from making reservations at popular or high-end restaurants and then just not showing up. For whatever reason they decide they aren't going to show up. You may get a waiver for illness or circumstances beyond your control but there won't be any more just deciding you don't feel like going to Chef Mickey's after all.

And it's everyone's choice if they feel they want to give up making reservations at any restaurant on the list; they may even feel they are being "penalized" for being "locked out" of character meals because they won't accept this policy.

bookworm75
10-13-2011, 02:06 PM
Ironically, with the new policy these kinds of situations could lead to people who wouldn't have double-booked ADRs to do exactly that. Because there is a solution, as has already been pointed out earlier...

Book two reservations, one for the larger party size and one for the smaller party size. Once you know for sure if your family is coming, cancel the one you don't need.
I am not saying this is the morally correct thing to do. I am not making a moral statement or judgment at all.

I am just saying that, if the point of this new system is to discourage double-bookings, it has just created a situation where people who wouldn't have done so in the past may now feel the need to double-book.

To add to your point and to have a good laugh: I am a strict follow the rules type of person, so this hadn't even occurred to me!! But you are completely right about people like me now being tempted to play the game.

mcd2745
10-13-2011, 02:11 PM
Ironically, with the new policy these kinds of situations could lead to people who wouldn't have double-booked ADRs to do exactly that. Because there is a solution, as has already been pointed out earlier...

Book two reservations, one for the larger party size and one for the smaller party size. Once you know for sure if your family is coming, cancel the one you don't need.

I am not saying this is the morally correct thing to do. I am not making a moral statement or judgment at all.

I am just saying that, if the point of this new system is to discourage double-bookings, it has just created a situation where people who wouldn't have done so in the past may now feel the need to double-book.


I don't think that's true at all. In the PPs scenario, I'm sure they can just book for 7 and if the other 3 decide not to go, they can call the dining line and reduce the ADR to 4 people. Yes, there is no way to modify an ADR online, but when my brother decided to join us for a few days last year, I called and the CM was able to change our ADRs from 4 people to 5 (and the confirm number didn't change - so it wasn't a new ADR), including at 'Ohana, so they have that ability to modify. And I'm sure it's no problem to reduce as opposed to adding to an ADR.

NLD
10-13-2011, 02:14 PM
I don't think that's true at all. In the PPs scenario, I'm sure they can just book for 7 and if the other 3 decide not to go, they can call the dining line and reduce the ADR to 4 people. Yes, there is no way to modify an ADR online, but when my brother decided to join us for a few days last year, I called and the CM was able to change our ADRs from 4 people to 5 (and the confirm number didn't change - so it wasn't a new ADR), including at 'Ohana, so they have that ability to modify. And I'm sure it's no problem to reduce as opposed to adding to an ADR.

Now this is interesting. Admittedly I have never done this before... never been in one of these situations. However, there are posts from other people that say they have been told the only way to add a person is to cancel the existing reservation and book a new one.

So apparently it depends what CM you get on the phone. (Guess that's not a shock....)

wdwlinz
10-13-2011, 02:16 PM
Someone asked a great question a couple pages back that I haven't seen an answer for. There are obviously a lot of people upset by this policy. So what would your suggestions be for how Disney should handle this? Disney obviously feels there are problems with the ADR system (people double-booking, no-showing, lack of availability of ADRS, etc). I'm assuming they have done research and have stats to back up the need for a change. I'm curious if anyone who hates the new policy has thought of a better idea.

SmallWorld71
10-13-2011, 02:20 PM
Ironically, with the new policy these kinds of situations could lead to people who wouldn't have double-booked ADRs to do exactly that. Because there is a solution, as has already been pointed out earlier...

Book two reservations, one for the larger party size and one for the smaller party size. Once you know for sure if your family is coming, cancel the one you don't need.

I am not saying this is the morally correct thing to do. I am not making a moral statement or judgment at all.

I am just saying that, if the point of this new system is to discourage double-bookings, it has just created a situation where people who wouldn't have done so in the past may now feel the need to double-book.

See, but that's NOT the biggest difference. In fact as far as I'm concerned, it's not even a difference at all. Because the two times I did not make ADRs in the past, I called. (I did NOT just no-show.)

The difference now is that I'm at the mercy of a CM to decide whether they'll waive the cancellation fee. And if the CM isn't willing to waive it, I'm out $$ for a meal I didn't attend.

THAT'S the difference.

To add to your point and to have a good laugh: I am a strict follow the rules type of person, so this hadn't even occurred to me!! But you are completely right about people like me now being tempted to play the game.

This had occured to me as well. I have NEVER double booked -I know what I want! LOL But, I am now in charge of a trip for next summer that includes 6 definites and 8 probably's. It seems like my best course of action will be to double book - have ADR's for the whole group and then those for just the 6 in case the rest of the group isn't able to come. We will know for sure a few months out, but not 180 days.

lebeau
10-13-2011, 02:25 PM
Someone asked a great question a couple pages back that I haven't seen an answer for. There are obviously a lot of people upset by this policy. So what would your suggestions be for how Disney should handle this? Disney obviously feels there are problems with the ADR system (people double-booking, no-showing, lack of availability of ADRS, etc). I'm assuming they have done research and have stats to back up the need for a change. I'm curious if anyone who hates the new policy has thought of a better idea.

People are assuming Disney is doing this to fix a problem.

Are you sure the motivation isn't just to add a new revenue stream?

Disney can now make money above and beyond their capacity. Without doing an additional work!

Since this clearly doesn't address the ADR problems, it seems pretty clear to me that Disney is going for a cash grab pure and simple.

NLD
10-13-2011, 02:25 PM
Someone asked a great question a couple pages back that I haven't seen an answer for. There are obviously a lot of people upset by this policy. So what would your suggestions be for how Disney should handle this? Disney obviously feels there are problems with the ADR system (people double-booking, no-showing, lack of availability of ADRS, etc). I'm assuming they have done research and have stats to back up the need for a change. I'm curious if anyone who hates the new policy has thought of a better idea.

To be honest I'm not sure how to answer because I'm not sure I understand the point of the new policy.

#1. Is the point to make Disney some $$?
#2. Is the point to make it easier for people to book the meals they want months in advance?
#3. Is the point to make more walk-ups available?
#4. Is the point to keep the restaurants filled?

At this point the only thing I see the policy actually accomplishing is #1. Maybe also #4. To accomplish #4 (and #3) without this policy in place, I would think that if there were ways for people to see which restaurants have walk-up availability, that might help. If I'm in the Magic Kingdom, getting hungry, with no ADRs booked and then see on a board that Crystal Palace has walk-ups available, I just might walk-up. No need to charge people who cancelled because their kid was sick... just replace them with a walk-up.

SmallWorld71
10-13-2011, 02:27 PM
I don't think that's true at all. In the PPs scenario, I'm sure they can just book for 7 and if the other 3 decide not to go, they can call the dining line and reduce the ADR to 4 people. Yes, there is no way to modify an ADR online, but when my brother decided to join us for a few days last year, I called and the CM was able to change our ADRs from 4 people to 5 (and the confirm number didn't change - so it wasn't a new ADR), including at 'Ohana, so they have that ability to modify. And I'm sure it's no problem to reduce as opposed to adding to an ADR.

I wish this were always the case, but sadly it is not. A friend of mine had her group size change by 3 people (7 to 10) and no matter who she tried she wasn't able to modify - only cancel and rebook.

I am guessing your situation is different because you went from 4 to 5. We are a family of 5 and about 75% of the time, we are seated at a 4 top with an extra chair and the other 25% has been at a 6 top. 'Ohana is one of the places where we were placed at a 4 top with a chair. So, while your ADR may have been modified in one sense of the word, it really didn't make a difference in the system because you were basically still taking up the exact same table. :) (Even if you were actually put at a 6 top when you got to the restaurant, the computer wouldn't know the difference.) You may have had very different results going from 4 to 8 or 4 to 2 etc..

mcd2745
10-13-2011, 02:27 PM
Now this is interesting. Admittedly I have never done this before... never been in one of these situations. However, there are posts from other people that say they have been told the only way to add a person is to cancel the existing reservation and book a new one.

So apparently it depends what CM you get on the phone. (Guess that's not a shock....)


It's possible I just got lucky at CM roulette, but clearly they have the ability to modify an ADR. So now, if I got a CM who claimed they couldn't do it, I would keep trying other CMs.

SmallWorld71
10-13-2011, 02:29 PM
To be honest I'm not sure how to answer because I'm not sure I understand the point of the new policy.

#1. Is the point to make Disney some $$?
#2. Is the point to make it easier for people to book the meals they want months in advance?
#3. Is the point to make more walk-ups available?
#4. Is the point to keep the restaurants filled?

At this point the only thing I see the policy actually accomplishing is #1.


Agreed

kaytieeldr
10-13-2011, 02:30 PM
I don't think that's true at all. In the PPs scenario, I'm sure they can just book for 7 and if the other 3 decide not to go, they can call the dining line and reduce the ADR to 4 people. Yes, there is no way to modify an ADR online, but when my brother decided to join us for a few days last year, I called and the CM was able to change our ADRs from 4 people to 5 (and the confirm number didn't change - so it wasn't a new ADR), including at 'Ohana, so they have that ability to modify. And I'm sure it's no problem to reduce as opposed to adding to an ADR.
Based on my experience, you were lucky. Most WDW tables are for even numbers of people - so going fro three guests to four, or five guests to six, should be much easier than increasing to an odd number, especially at multiple restaurants.

Should be. My brother tried to add me to his five-perso Chef Mickey's reservation once and was told the first time they had available for a party of six was 9:30. Since there were three little kids dining, making them wait an extra three and a half hours wasn't feasible. Sure enough, they were seated at a table for six (and yes, I know about capacity restrictions - but I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one no-show at 6 PM).

lebeau
10-13-2011, 02:31 PM
I doubt all of them will. Many will not want to deal with the hassle of cancelling. But even for those who still do it and then cancel in time (and probably, many of them probably never bothered to canceled the "extra" ADRs in the past) that alone would be seen as an improvement. Also, many do it so that they can decide "day of" where they want to eat from amongst their multiple ADRs. Now, even those who continue to do it have to decide at least a day in advance. So their whole motivation to do it in the first-place gets compromised.

I gotta think Disney's main motivation here was to reduce the number of no-shows. Everyone has seen first-hand (I certainly have) or have read the numerous reports here of fully-booked restaurants with tons of empty tables. Yes, everything comes down to $$$. But I'm sure they would rather you show up at your ADR and spend $150-$200 than charge you a $40-$60 fee depending on how many in your party.

I agree with most of your points. This will prevent some double booking. But not much. Most people who were doing it will continue to do so with a little additional effort. Yes, they have 24 hours less time to make up their minds. But that's still better than commiting to one meal 6 months in advance.

So, I don't see this opening any substantial availability between the 180-day and the 1-day mark.

At the 1-day mark, there will likely be some additional availability as people cancel. But how many people (other than locals) try to upgrade ressies same-day. And if you're already locked into a different ressie with a cc hold, don't bother.

Yes, Disney's trying to avoid empty tables. (How often does that happen at these restaurants anyway? Aren't they turning away walk-ups most of the time?) But I don't think Disney is choosing between charging for a meal and collecting a fee. I think they intend to do both.

LittleStinkerbelle
10-13-2011, 02:33 PM
I won't stop booking character or signature meals due to the policy BUT, I will think harder about how many I book.

For example, my personal policy is not to book anything with a penalty for the first day, so long first night cm or signature.

We also put DD in the kids' club a couple of times during each trip for a "date night." The kids' clubs have, as long as we've been using them, had a cancellation penatly of I believe two hours' charge. So if we booked a signature on top of that and something muffs up our plans, we'd be out upwards of $50. We've never had to cancel out on a kids' club night but 'ya know, never say never;). I may scale it back to one date night, or not do signatures for date nights. So I guess Disney kinda looses out on that one if we decide just to go to a park or do a less expensive restaurant.

TDC Nala
10-13-2011, 02:35 PM
I think it's pretty clear that the policy is meant to prevent no-shows at the restaurants.

I can see a lot of posters dont' understand what difference it makes to Disney whether or not people show up for their ADRs. If it didn't make a difference they would not be making this policy. I know it's been mentioned that if they think the restaurant is going to be booked to capacity with ADRs they may not accept walk-ups so it's not so cut and dried as to "that space will go to a walkup anyway."

kaytieeldr
10-13-2011, 02:39 PM
To be honest I'm not sure how to answer because I'm not sure I understand the point of the new policy.

#1. Is the point to make Disney some $$?
#2. Is the point to make it easier for people to book the meals they want months in advance?
#3. Is the point to make more walk-ups available?
#4. Is the point to keep the restaurants filled?
#5. Is the point to keep the greatest possible number of guests happy?
#6. Is the point to respond to survey responses and guest complaints about not being able to get ADRs?
#7. Is Disney aware, by monitoring Internet forums, that there is enough abuse/misuse of the ADR process to warrant this new policy?

I'm going to give a resounding "yes" to #7. Also, yes to questions two through six :teeth:

Tricia1972
10-13-2011, 02:39 PM
Someone asked a great question a couple pages back that I haven't seen an answer for. There are obviously a lot of people upset by this policy. So what would your suggestions be for how Disney should handle this? Disney obviously feels there are problems with the ADR system (people double-booking, no-showing, lack of availability of ADRS, etc). I'm assuming they have done research and have stats to back up the need for a change. I'm curious if anyone who hates the new policy has thought of a better idea.

Ronda originally asked it and I've started to answer it a few times, but always hit delete.

My problem basically is that cheaters are always going to find a way to cheat. Even honest people have already figured out a few work arounds to not be charged and also not cancel the reservation.

I agree with others that this is just yet another money grab by Disney. Disney will recoup their losses on no-shows by charging those that honestly cancel within the 24 hour period. Those that cheat the system still get away with cheating the system and honest people pick up the tab for the cheaters.

Planners will hate my solution, however, shorter reservation windows would make it better for many guests. It's been suggested on the thread before, and I agree that if people didn't feel pigeonholed 6 months out, then perhaps there wouldn't be as much double booking.

Disney would hate my solution because there would be many more empty tables. They create the 'fight' for reservations by setting the window out so far and they do that because it fills their tables.

In the end, this is Disney's new policy and there is nothing that I can say or do that will change their policy. I'll abide by their rules and play their game. It just doesn't mean that I have to love the new policy. :goodvibes

NLD
10-13-2011, 02:39 PM
I won't stop booking character or signature meals due to the policy BUT, I will think harder about how many I book.

Yes, here too.

In the long run it will probably save me money, even if I DO get hit with a cancellation fee because of a sick kid once or twice.

Because we'll just make sure NOT to book more than one cc-required restaurant per trip. Which will mean eating at less expensive places.

Congrats Disney, you have just incentivized me to eat breakfast at Whispering Canyon Cafe for $15 per person rather than at Chef Mickey's for $35 per person.

Was that the intent of this new policy? (Still trying to figure that out...)

Tricia1972
10-13-2011, 02:43 PM
To be honest I'm not sure how to answer because I'm not sure I understand the point of the new policy.
#1. Is the point to make Disney some $$?
#2. Is the point to make it easier for people to book the meals they want months in advance?
#3. Is the point to make more walk-ups available?
#4. Is the point to keep the restaurants filled?
#5. Is the point to keep the greatest possible number of guests happy?
#6. Is the point to respond to survey responses and guest complaints about not being able to get ADRs?
#7. Is Disney aware, by monitoring Internet forums, that there is enough abuse/misuse of the ADR process to warrant this new policy?
I'm going to give a resounding "yes" to #7. Also, yes to questions two through six :teeth:

I have to say that though we feel like the majority of those that travel to Disney. The majority of people that I know in my area who travel to Disney never visit a Disney Forum. SO I disagree with number 7. Not that there aren't people who abuse it, but Disney sees this with Empty Tables and reacts to their lost revenue, not by cruising internet forums. :teeth:

(they do cruise internet forums, but I don't think that the DIS caused this policy change - well at least I hope not) :goodvibes

NLD
10-13-2011, 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLD
To be honest I'm not sure how to answer because I'm not sure I understand the point of the new policy.

#1. Is the point to make Disney some $$?
#2. Is the point to make it easier for people to book the meals they want months in advance?
#3. Is the point to make more walk-ups available?
#4. Is the point to keep the restaurants filled?

#5. Is the point to keep the greatest possible number of guests happy?
#6. Is the point to respond to survey responses and guest complaints about not being able to get ADRs?
#7. Is Disney aware, by monitoring Internet forums, that there is enough abuse/misuse of the ADR process to warrant this new policy?

I'm going to give a resounding "yes" to #7. Also, yes to questions two through six

Can you please explain how this policy will keep a larger number of guests happy, increase chances of booking ADRs in advance, and stop the abusers of the system? I am not trying to be snarky, I just really don't see it.



Look, I have no love for the current ADR system either. It stinks. It stinks that it's October, and I can't get a meal for a decent time at O'hanas for a trip three months away. It's silly and it's frustrating.

How do we know that this new policy will change that? People can still double book from 180 days - 1 day. They just have to cancel their double booking 24 hours in advance (or use other even more unscrupulous work-arounds).

Right now the ONLY thing I do know about this policy is that honest people who encounter hiccups in their vacation schedule get penalized. That is the ONLY for-sure thing I do know.

shoney
10-13-2011, 02:48 PM
Personally, I think having a 180 day window for booking is crazy. That should be drastically reduced. Sometimes airfares aren't even published by then!

I think Disney created their own monster by having such a policy that makes people decide where and when they want to eat so far in advance.

Many resorts that I have been to allow guests to book dinners at the beginning of their stay not 6 months ahead of time. I personally prefer the ones that have no ressies all!! Just put your name on a list if there is a wait. If you want to wait, great, if not, move on to choice #2.

I really don't have a "must" on my list of ADR's. I would prefer making day of ADR's while I am there. That is what I remember my parents doing back in the 80's. We were in Epcot and they went on some video phone and made a reservation for dinner based on what was available. Unfortunately, if you wait and do that, it seems like nothing is available due to ADR's made 6 months prior.

I am by no means an expert, since this trip will be my first onsite with ADR's. On prior trips, we just ate (LTT, 50's prime time, Wolfgang puck, etc) where a table was available.

Quin
10-13-2011, 02:48 PM
I think it's pretty clear that the policy is meant to prevent no-shows at the restaurants.

I know it's been mentioned that if they think the restaurant is going to be booked to capacity with ADRs they may not accept walk-ups so it's not so cut and dried as to "that space will go to a walkup anyway."

But why does Disney not just enforce the existing policy, which - I thought - was that an ADR was not a "real" reservation but instead, essentially, a FastPass for a restaurant? Except at true hard-ticket events like the Dessert Party, your ADR just lets you jump to the front of the walk-up line. If someone is not there when their ADR time comes, the table should not be held because it wasn't theirs to begin with. If they come at or near their ADR time they jump to the front of the line; too late and maybe they have to join all the walk-ups is all.

If all the reports we read on the DIS are correct that walk-ups are turned away while the restaurant sits half-empty, then Disney is not correctly implementing its existing policy. I wish they had tried doing that before imposing a new one-day cancellation.

kaytieeldr
10-13-2011, 02:49 PM
Thanks, Tricia!

Frankly, I have no objection to something like seven day reservations for on-site guests and three day reservations for others.

Of course, if that ever happens, the entire DIS Moderator Team won't be enough to handle this board!

TDC Nala
10-13-2011, 02:51 PM
How do we know they are going to charge those who "honestly" cancel within a 24 hour period? Assuming "honestly" means they're sick or stuck on transportation or something like that.

I cancelled a California Grill reservation once within hours because of illness and did not pay the fee. There are a LOT of posts assuming that you're going to be charged if you miss the ADR because you are sick. (Well, you will be if you don't actually try to cancel for that reason once you are within 24 hours)

Colleen27
10-13-2011, 02:52 PM
I gotta think Disney's main motivation here was to reduce the number of no-shows. Everyone has seen first-hand (I certainly have) or have read the numerous reports here of fully-booked restaurants with tons of empty tables. Yes, everything comes down to $$$. But I'm sure they would rather you show up at your ADR and spend $150-$200 than charge you a $40-$60 fee depending on how many in your party.

Not everyone buys the idea that those empty tables are because of no-shows, though. Disney doesn't hold ADRs forever nor are they true reservations, and many of those reports came from restaurants that routinely turn away walk ups. If they had the staffing to handle a packed house they could easily fill those tables with people who show up at the podium with no ADR.

And I see where the $$$ argument comes in. Now if my family cancels Artist Point (as we've done once before) because someone is feeling ill, Disney gets the $50 from me PLUS the $200 tab from the party they seat at the table I would have occupied. It increases dining revenues beyond the limits of restaurant capacity - win-win for Disney, but a losing situation for guests who are paying for nothing.

Quin
10-13-2011, 02:54 PM
I'm OK with (or at least used to) the 180-day mark. I could live with 90 days. I'm not sure I want it much shorter than that because the park hours plus the ADRs do give me a way to put a loose structure on the trip.

I think my biggest objection is the 24-hour cancellation fee. Do we know from Disney statistics how many of those empty tables are from people who double-booked ADRs versus how many simply decided on the day that they weren't going to make it but saw no reason to call and cancel? I do expect that the latter is far more common than the former. Somebody gets sick during the day; family wants to keep touring; just plain not hungry (how many Dining Reports have we read for folks on the DxDP who ate TS breakfast, TS lunch, mid-afternoon snack, and then just could not face the thought of another TS meal?). Wouldn't a 2-hour or 3-hour cancellation window be enough for Disney to sell those empty seats to walk-ups?

lebeau
10-13-2011, 02:57 PM
How do we know they are going to charge those who "honestly" cancel within a 24 hour period? Assuming "honestly" means they're sick or stuck on transportation or something like that.

I cancelled a California Grill reservation once within hours because of illness and did not pay the fee.

1. It has happened to me. Full story here (http://lebeauleblog.wordpress.com/2011/10/12/disney-world-to-require-credit-card-holds-for-most-popular-dining-experiences/) cause I'm sick of retelling it.

2. I called and asked. They flat-out told me no exception would be made.

I expect exceptions will be made. But that is not their policy. And in practice, my experience is that they do not make exceptions no matter the reason.

Cafeen
10-13-2011, 02:59 PM
Someone asked a great question a couple pages back that I haven't seen an answer for. There are obviously a lot of people upset by this policy. So what would your suggestions be for how Disney should handle this? Disney obviously feels there are problems with the ADR system (people double-booking, no-showing, lack of availability of ADRS, etc). I'm assuming they have done research and have stats to back up the need for a change. I'm curious if anyone who hates the new policy has thought of a better idea.

The comment about determining if the policy is even needed in the first place is very valid, but suppose that a general one is here are the changes that I'd suggest if I had a voice.


Separate out the different meals and eliminate all new breakfasts from the list. This is the meal more likely to catch people that wake up sick, spend too much time out, or whatever reason. Even if they fully intend to make it to the ADR the night before, it may prove impossible. Possibly keep the in-park breakfasts on here though.
Remove the sigs other than CG from the list. None of the other signatures really have as much of a problem with getting in as CG, therefore this isn't really needed. Potentially keep Le Cellier on here though.
Provide an alternative for those who do not with to provide a CC over the phone or internet. E.g. Sending a check for deposit like they do with resort reservations. This would actually take the money from the account, but at least they could book the meals!
Shorten the cancellation window to 3 hours. This should provide enough time for restaurants to know what they're looking at, while giving enough flexibility to those guests where the unexpected happens.
Remove the "Guest Recovery" mark from the "exceptional circumstances" line.
Specifically state the reasons that the fee may be waived (yes, can lead to abuse, but I'd rather 100 people abuse the system than falsely charge 1 person for something under these reasons!)
Insure that late canceled reservations that fall under the waived fee portion are not even charged in the first place. Meaning that guests won't have to seek a refund! Apply the charges the next morning to allow time for the guest to respond from any emergency situation.
Create a "Wait List" for each restaurant. This starts fresh every day (and you can only get on it on the same day). Provide a phone number, your name, party size, and latest time. When someone cancels (since it's now 3hrs ahead of time), you get a call asking if you'd still like a spot. If not, it moves on, if so, you get that person's reservation (the system would only take into account those who's latest times are earlier than the canceled reservation). This would expedite the turnaround on said 3hr cancellations. (Would not affect no shows, as it would already be too late at that point).


Now, the last two may be a bit far fetched, and the last one would certainly require the development of a whole new internal system, but with just the first set of actual tweaks it would be greatly improved.

The biggest focuses I have on this policy is the exclusion of entire segments of dining from people who can't/won't give a CC over the phone or internet and the potential for unexpected cases to crop up on the same day of the reservation. I also don't believe that it will curtail those abusing the system all that much (far less than some make it out to) and feel that the policy is too restrictive to those who have every intention of sticking to their appointments, but just can't for whatever reason.

wdwlinz
10-13-2011, 03:01 PM
1. It has happened to me. Full story here (http://lebeauleblog.wordpress.com/2011/10/12/disney-world-to-require-credit-card-holds-for-most-popular-dining-experiences/) cause I'm sick of retelling it.

2. I called and asked. They flat-out told me no exception would be made.

I expect exceptions will be made. But that is not their policy. And in practice, my experience is that they do not make exceptions no matter the reason.

While I sympathize with your situation and probably would have done the same had it been myself and my children, unless I'm misreading the story, no one in your party was ill and you weren't missing the ADR due to Disney's sucky transportation. I would be really surprised if Disney actually charged people who weren't coming because someone was puking.

mcd2745
10-13-2011, 03:02 PM
Ronda originally asked it and I've started to answer it a few times, but always hit delete.

My problem basically is that cheaters are always going to find a way to cheat. Even honest people have already figured out a few work arounds to not be charged and also not cancel the reservation.

I agree with others that this is just yet another money grab by Disney. Disney will recoup their losses on no-shows by charging those that honestly cancel within the 24 hour period. Those that cheat the system still get away with cheating the system and honest people pick up the tab for the cheaters.

Planners will hate my solution, however, shorter reservation windows would make it better for many guests. It's been suggested on the thread before, and I agree that if people didn't feel pigeonholed 6 months out, then perhaps there wouldn't be as much double booking.

Disney would hate my solution because there would be many more empty tables. They create the 'fight' for reservations by setting the window out so far and they do that because it fills their tables.

In the end, this is Disney's new policy and there is nothing that I can say or do that will change their policy. I'll abide by their rules and play their game. It just doesn't mean that I have to love the new policy. :goodvibes


I agree 10000000% that the window needs to be shorter. I've said this many, many, many times. IMO, the 180 day window is the #1 reason there is so much abuse of the system. You're right, with such a long window, they have created this 'fight' for ADRs that significantly outnumbers the demand for actual meals.

I completely disagree, however, that a shorter window would result in more empty tables. I believe it would definitely reduce the number of empty tables as then a much higher percentage of the reservations are being made by people who fully intend to show up.

Colleen27
10-13-2011, 03:08 PM
So is anyone here intending to stop booking reservations at character meals or signature restaurants? Le Cellier lunch? 'Ohana dinner? Most of you will probably still book them because you want them. Except if you don't want to pay $10 the option of just deciding you don't feel like going that day isn't there anymore.


I truly haven't decided yet. I'm not one for making decisions without all the facts if I can avoid it, so I'm taking a wait-and-see position. We already have our ADRs for January and our Oct '12 trip will be adults-only/no DDP with a focus on restaurants that don't participate in the plan. So I have until the 180 mark for our 2013 trip to see how the policy plays out in practice before I have to make any decisions.

If there are multiple reports of people getting dinged for the cancellation fee because someone got sick on vacation, we'll avoid restaurants with a fee (and therefore avoid the DxDDP, because without signature restaurants it loses its appeal, and maybe go for Bonnet Creek or the Swolphin because the DxDDP is what kept us on site for our upcoming trip). If Disney is making exceptions for unforeseeable circumstances and it doesn't seem to be a huge hassle, I won't change my booking habits.

The one concrete change I know we'll make is to put an end to our tradition of a first night signature meal. :sad2: But since we use the DxDDP that's a win for Disney too - we'll use our credit for a much cheaper one credit meal somewhere without a guarantee or have counter service at our resort, freeing up the table we'd have occupied at Narcoosees or Artist Point for someone who will perhaps pay cash for their $300 meal. And I have to wonder if that didn't factor into this decision on some level - this will likely discourage DDP/DxDDP guests from loading their itinerary with the most expensive & popular restaurants Disney has to offer. Disney brings in more money if those of us who have pre-paid our meals stick to Kona and The Plaza and leave more room at Ohana and Crystal Palace for cash guests who aren't locked into TS meals and will eat CS or offsite if they can't get the specific restaurants they want.

Put that 407-WDW-CNCL or whatever it is number in your phone, and if you are sick or your child is sick on the same day call that number and explain why you are needing to cancel. That's the biggest difference is that you will now have to make a call to do that and explain to a cast member why you're cancelling on such short notice, then see if the cast member will waive the no show fee for you.

I've always cancelled ADRs as soon as I know we're not going to make them. The difference is that now I have to call where in the past I'd cancel online whenever possible, and now whether or not I'm charged $50 for a meal I'm not eating will depend on the goodwill of a random CM. And since CM roulette as someone else so aptly called it is Disney's biggest customer service failing in my opinion, subjecting one more element of a trip to the luck of the call center draw is nothing but an added headache.

lebeau
10-13-2011, 03:11 PM
While I sympathize with your situation and probably would have done the same had it been myself and my children, unless I'm misreading the story, no one in your party was ill and you weren't missing the ADR due to Disney's sucky transportation. I would be really surprised if Disney actually charged people who weren't coming because someone was puking.

I have heard of this happening to people. Didn't persoanlly witness it, but I have read of accounts.

In my situation, if they had agreed to cut me some slack on the baby, I'd have been satisfied. I was prepared for paying for my wife, myself and the 6-year-old. I wasn't happy about it, but them's the breaks. Charging an additonal $10 for a baby who wasn't going to eat there? If they will do that, I do not trust their judgement.

Don't count on Disney making an exception for you. That's my point.

Cafeen
10-13-2011, 03:16 PM
Phew, it's getting tough to keep up in here :p
So is anyone here intending to stop booking reservations at character meals or signature restaurants? Le Cellier lunch? 'Ohana dinner? Most of you will probably still book them because you want them. Except if you don't want to pay $10 the option of just deciding you don't feel like going that day isn't there anymore.
It's becoming part of my decision for my next couple of trips, yes. It's also factoring into whether or not I bother with DxDDP anymore. I haven't finalized the decision or anything, and there are other factors going into it, but I'm certainly considering booking fewer, if any, for the next 2 or 3 trips that I have in mind.

Put that 407-WDW-CNCL or whatever it is number in your phone, and if you are sick or your child is sick on the same day call that number and explain why you are needing to cancel. That's the biggest difference is that you will now have to make a call to do that and explain to a cast member why you're cancelling on such short notice, then see if the cast member will waive the no show fee for you.

Disney apparently believes that they have now had too many guests who just did not show up to popular restaurants.
This assumes that the CM recognizes this as "extreme circumstances" and if (and how many) "Guest Recoveries" you've had before. CF mentioned this and it's often overlooked, but the term "Extreme Circumstances" and that the Guest Recovery would go on the permanent record for the guest, meaning that past issues and other recoveries could very well prevent you from getting future ones.

maxiesmom
10-13-2011, 03:20 PM
While I sympathize with your situation and probably would have done the same had it been myself and my children, unless I'm misreading the story, no one in your party was ill and you weren't missing the ADR due to Disney's sucky transportation.

I agree. Your family got wet, and you decided to skip the meal. Fine. Your choice. But now, deciding to skip a character meal at the last minute will cost you. And I have no problem with that.

I don't understand why you are upset about the fee for your 1yr old either. Disney counts every person that sits at the table when you book your ADRs. They do still count as a no show, as they count towards the table occupency.

lebeau
10-13-2011, 03:24 PM
I agree. Your family got wet, and you decided to skip the meal. Fine. Your choice. But now, deciding to skip a character meal at the last minute will cost you. And I have no problem with that.

I don't understand why you are upset about the fee for your 1yr old either. Disney counts every person that sits at the table when you book your ADRs. They do still count as a no show, as they count towards the table occupency.

I have discussed that incident with a lot of people. And never has anyone responded with so little sympathy. Suffice it to say, yours has been the minority opinion of everyone I have spoken to.

And Disney, if you're listening, I tell this story a lot and will continue to do so.

LittleStinkerbelle
10-13-2011, 03:30 PM
I'd be all for a shorter (much shorter!) ADR window.

Last year we went to an all-inclusive in the Caribbean. None of the 16 restaurants on property took reservations, it was all on a walk-up system. The Disney planner in me was freaking out wondering how that could possibly work, woudn't we be waiting forever if we went at "traditional" dining times. We never waited more than a few minutes - I don't know how they did it but they did. It was freeing to have the flexibility to decide that afternoon what kind of cuisine we wanted. Not saying that this could ever work at Disney:laughing: - but I wouldn't be opposed to making dining reservations once on site if we were all on a level playing field.

nancytoby
10-13-2011, 03:34 PM
#5. Is the point to keep the greatest possible number of guests happy?
#6. Is the point to respond to survey responses and guest complaints about not being able to get ADRs?
#7. Is Disney aware, by monitoring Internet forums, that there is enough abuse/misuse of the ADR process to warrant this new policy?

I'm going to give a resounding "yes" to #7. Also, yes to questions two through six :teeth:

Another objective may be:

#8: Increase the number of ADRs available for Sig/CM restaurants at 24 hrs prior by eliminating excess ADRs from the system by cancellations instead of leaving them in the system and waiting for last-minute no-shows/cancellations

Snurk71
10-13-2011, 03:38 PM
Back to the question that Disney used to operate by - how will this change in policy make for more magical experiences? It certainly seems to many of us that the change will only make for less magical experiences to the honest folks. This does not strike of superb customer service that Disney used to abide by. I believe this was purely a financial decision.

To those that think this will reduce the multiple bookers, I think you're naive in your thinking. If people will go the extent of booking 3 reservations with 3 different emails and phone numbers, they'll go the extent of cancelling them a day or two out while they're on vacation. This policy will ultimately only impact the uninformed.

housemouse
10-13-2011, 03:42 PM
Another objective may be:

#8: Increase the number of ADRs available for Sig/CM restaurants at 24 hrs prior by eliminating excess ADRs from the system by cancellations instead of leaving them in the system and waiting for last-minute no-shows/cancellations


And I see that as a great benefit to the non-planners and the walk ups. I don't see much benefit for the Polly Planners though. By the time those ressies open, they'll already have plans for dining elsewhere. If they really wanted a Ohana breakfast but settled for Chef Mickey's instead, then they're stuck paying a cancellation fee at CM to go to Ohana.

eliza61
10-13-2011, 03:49 PM
I may totally be wrong on this so maybe some one has a better understanding.


Anyway, I thought the concept of the ADR was that this was not a "reservation" in that they do not "hold" open tables for you. I thought it was supposed to work that when you arrived you checked in and the "first available table" was offered to you. thus if a table is empty, why wouldn't a walk up be able to grab it and the ADR person get the next on open?

Am I understanding it correctly?

BEASLYBOO
10-13-2011, 04:30 PM
I fully understand the pre-payment of dinner and a show (ie: Hoop Dee Doo etc.) and the pre-payments for a character breakfast and dinner but $10 per person for cancelling a simple dinner reservation, no. I'm sorry but it's not a criminal or chargeable offense to cancel an ADR a few hours in advance and I'm not giving my credit card info. to every Tom, Dick and Mickey at Disney!

I make few ADR's as it is but this new approach of Disney trying to control yet another aspect of my vacation will only push me to seek other avenues.

40 years of Disney dining led me to discover Orlando dining; reasonable prices, newer venues, better cuisine and no cancellation fees! Sold!!!!

dismommom
10-13-2011, 05:30 PM
I think Disney is opening a nasty can of worms with this announcement. I have been going to Disney World for over 30 years. Usually once or twice a year, staying on property the last 18 years a week to 10 days. I may have to rethink this. We try to enjoy the "free diing". We pay the upgrade to table service (we usually stay at a value resort). We poo-poo Universal. Well we are a family of 6, my daughter, her husband two girls, husband & I. It will now cost us $60 for each reservation we might miss. I try to only make ADRs I plan to use and try to cancel any we might not use. But -6 months in advance we have to book our meals to get the times and places we want. At that time we were planning on bringing another person with us so some of the reservations are for 7 people. Now we will have to pay for the person who cancelled. Disney needs to offer adr adjustments in party size. If we try to reschedule with just 5 or 6 people we might not be able to get the meals we want. If we make reservations for 6 and grandpa and I need time without kids one night, we're stuck for $20 because we can't adjust the adr and keep the current time.

Maybe Disney should stop allowing ADRs 6 months in advance. A 30 day window would let you know the park hours, and give you time to adjust what people in your party will be dining with you (we have friends in the area who join us sometimes). I also feel 3 hour cancellation should be enough. You make a lunch ADR and get to the park and the only time you can see a show is 20 minutes after your ADR, You can't make both and you are paying a lot of money for the entertainment, if you don't go to the ADR you lose $60. Why should my vacation be so strictly scheduled?

If I can't enjoy my favorite Disney Restaurants maybe I'll just book one or two each trip, and if I'm not getting the advantage of free dining, maybe I should stay off property where breakfast is free or kids eat free and the rooms are cheaper. Then maybe I should only spend 4 days at Disney and spend 4 days at Universal, the grils are getting older and might like thrill rides.

We are good for our December trip, but I'll have to see what happens by April when we book the next trip.

dismommom
10-13-2011, 05:44 PM
I'd be all for a shorter (much shorter!) ADR window.

Last year we went to an all-inclusive in the Caribbean. None of the 16 restaurants on property took reservations, it was all on a walk-up system. The Disney planner in me was freaking out wondering how that could possibly work, woudn't we be waiting forever if we went at "traditional" dining times. We never waited more than a few minutes - I don't know how they did it but they did. It was freeing to have the flexibility to decide that afternoon what kind of cuisine we wanted. Not saying that this could ever work at Disney:laughing: - but I wouldn't be opposed to making dining reservations once on site if we were all on a level playing field.

How many timew have we waited half hour to and hour evenwith ADRs. How is that fair?

dismommom
10-13-2011, 05:52 PM
But why does Disney not just enforce the existing policy, which - I thought - was that an ADR was not a "real" reservation but instead, essentially, a FastPass for a restaurant? Except at true hard-ticket events like the Dessert Party, your ADR just lets you jump to the front of the walk-up line. If someone is not there when their ADR time comes, the table should not be held because it wasn't theirs to begin with. If they come at or near their ADR time they jump to the front of the line; too late and maybe they have to join all the walk-ups is all.

If all the reports we read on the DIS are correct that walk-ups are turned away while the restaurant sits half-empty, then Disney is not correctly implementing its existing policy. I wish they had tried doing that before imposing a new one-day cancellation.


Hurray for a logical mind!!!!!

Snurk71
10-13-2011, 05:57 PM
I agree that Disney needs to alter their system to make it easier to drop guests vs the current method of having to cancel your entire reservation and maybe you can still eat if there's another open time for the reduced part size. The new policy is really going to stink if that isn't addressed.

MELSMICE
10-13-2011, 06:01 PM
This policy is punishing those first timers more than veterans, simply because they have 0 benchmarks to base their plan on.

Oh, that's right, I'm excluded from those two experiences because I do not wish to make a guaranteed ADR (for whatever reasons).
If there is a first timer, then they know no different. This isn't new to them, it's just the way it is.

You are not being excluded from anything. You would make the choice that you wouldn't want to experience those particular places using ADR's under the new policy.

Sammie
10-13-2011, 06:04 PM
I may totally be wrong on this so maybe some one has a better understanding.

Anyway, I thought the concept of the ADR was that this was not a "reservation" in that they do not "hold" open tables for you. I thought it was supposed to work that when you arrived you checked in and the "first available table" was offered to you. thus if a table is empty, why wouldn't a walk up be able to grab it and the ADR person get the next on open?

Am I understanding it correctly?

I don't know the exact formula they use but no you can't walk up and take a table away from someone coming in 5 mins. with an ADR.

I think the only reason Disney states it is not a Reservation is that they book more tables in a time period than other nonDisney restaurants and as time goes on from opening, your wait will be longer at popular venues.

So walkups could be turned away and tables left empty due to no shows.

As to ADR not being a real reservation I think that is fed by Internet discussion and less about the policy of how they book tables at the actual restaurants.

SnipsNSnails
10-13-2011, 06:23 PM
I'm all for a no-show fee. I just think a 24hr window for cancellations is excessive because of all the reasons already brought up - illness, travel delay, weather, etc. that don't necessarily give a 24hr heads up. The ADR system recognizes cancelled reservations as available immediately, so the tech is there for a system that would allow for more flexibility to deal with the unexpected by implementing a shorter cancellation period.

ITA - Many have suggested 3 hours. I think that would be more fair. It would eliminate most of the illness issues and some of the transportation issues like late flights. It should give plenty of notice that they can seat a walkup instead or someone can snag the ADR.


Someone asked a great question a couple pages back that I haven't seen an answer for. There are obviously a lot of people upset by this policy. So what would your suggestions be for how Disney should handle this? Disney obviously feels there are problems with the ADR system (people double-booking, no-showing, lack of availability of ADRS, etc). I'm assuming they have done research and have stats to back up the need for a change. I'm curious if anyone who hates the new policy has thought of a better idea.

1. Shorter window - 2-3 hours should be more than sufficient notice of cancelling an ADR. I think even 1 hour would be.
2. I'd much rather pay a deposit of say $10 per reservation that is credited at the time of the meal. I know many won't like that suggestion but in the long run, I'd rather lose $10 vs. $40+ if I can't keep the ADR. It would also actually provide a solution to those making multiple reservations. Unless you have so much money you just don't care you will only be making the reservations you intend to keep. If you are on the DDP the $10 can got toward the tip or be refunded. I know that would be a horribly unpopular solution because people like to change their ADRs, maybe it would be possible to make it transferrable to a different ressie within a ceratin time frame. Like on Southwest I can change the date or time I'm flying and the confirmation # doesn't change.
3. I also thing the ADR window is too big at 180. I could deal with it at 90, 60, or even 30. I wouldn't be down for it waiting until you arrive. Then it would be a mad dash for the earliest flights and is the cab worth the money to try to get the Ohana ressie, it would be like the Amazing Race. I don't need that stress once I'm on vacation.

Will this cause us to make changes? I think possibly.
- I probably won't be booking Chef Mickey's for the day we fly in ever again. :sad1: That's always been our tradition and now we can't risk a travel delay. That may fall under the exceptions so I guess we can see how it plays out for others first since we are not every year Disney on-site guests.
- It might cause me to rethink the dining plan. When we were there a few weeks ago, 5 of our TS fell into this category. Obviously those are some of the better "deals" on the DDP. I'll admit, though we didn't miss any ADRs, it might have given me pause to have to make 5 cc guarantees at $80 per ADR. If I'm not comfortable making ADRs at the restaurants that are the best values on the plan then why buy the plan? And if we don't buy the plan....there is no way we are eating 7 TS meals. I'd be surprised if we did more than 2 and we got by just fine sharing many CS meals and maybe ate half of the snacks, some of which we wouldn't have eaten. While we like to eat the way the plan provides, we're too thrifty to eat that way OOP. Grandma about had a fit each time the 18% tip arrived I can't imagine convincing her to eat that many TS!
- Eating is actually one of my favorite parts of WDW so again, if in the end I decide I'm not going to eat where I want to, well, I really want to WWOHP and this might actually push me toward US next time we want to stay at a theme park. It's at least starting to tip the scale the other way.

Marthasor
10-13-2011, 06:32 PM
I, too, have experienced walking up to a half empty restaurant at WDW only to be turned away. I'm sure it's because the restaurant is expecting the ADR parties to show up. It sounds like too many people were not showing up so not only were they losing the ADR parties, they were turning away people who could have used those tables hence losing money all the way around and disappointing people at the same time.

I think this new system is fair. It will certainly deter people from using loopholes to make multiple reservations. However, I think the people who are going to hurt the most from it are families with young children whose naps become wildly unpredictable while on vacation and large parties which include friends and extended family where one person is going to have to literally hold the bag and hope that everyone shows up for a reservation so they aren't stuck with a large no-show fee. Perhaps this will mean the non-credit card hold restaurants will now become more popular and impossible to get into!

I think for us, until my son is a little older, it will just mean booking more character and signature meals for breakfast and lunch when we are typically in pre-meltdown mode!

MamaJessie
10-13-2011, 06:59 PM
First timers. they're less likely to know the exclusions are in place
If they give their card number, they know the policy at that point

For example, back over at Yachtsman and I figure out I'm not hungry.
Everytime I think I can agree with you, you throw out the "I'm not hungry reason" I am just not buying that one. Don't eat so close to your ADR

Keep in mind that, as it sits now, the policy is not ONLY for those that don't show up, but also for those that cancel the same day. So if I wake up in the morning with my back hurting and decide to sleep it off some, I'm out $10 for breakfast, whether I call or not. So what's the impetus to call?
True!

The stopping from going altogether is an extrapolation of this, since they're going to be charged extra for good intentions, they may as well not go in the first place.
I don't really think so. People who come for the first time will just accept it as is. Just like when I planned my first trip I just dealt with the fact that I was going to have to make plans so far in advance
TBH, I'm already considering dropping my normal 10 day DxDDP trips in favor of a 5-6 day, OOP trip
If you are too full for ADRs the regular DDP might be a better choice for you



So people should eat when they aren't hungry just so people don't get annoyed they canceled an ADR last minute?
No, just don't eat before your meal. Plan ahead.



Now, instead of absorbing the magic, and enjoying my time without a care in the world (which is what a vacation is supposed to be about, right?), I have to be watching the clock, militantly herding everyone over to the restaurant at the prescribed time. This is sounding more like work than my average day at work.

If you have ADRs, don't you watch the clock to make it anyway?

I think Disney created their own monster by having such a policy that makes people decide where and when they want to eat so far in advance.
Very true!



Provide an alternative for those who do not with to provide a CC over the phone or internet. E.g. Sending a check for deposit like they do with resort reservations. This would actually take the money from the account, but at least they could book the meals!
Shorten the cancellation window to 3 hours. This should provide enough time for restaurants to know what they're looking at, while giving enough flexibility to those guests where the unexpected happens.
Remove the "Guest Recovery" mark from the "exceptional circumstances" line.
Create a "Wait List" for each restaurant. This starts fresh every day (and you can only get on it on the same day). Provide a phone number, your name, party size, and latest time. When someone cancels (since it's now 3hrs ahead of time), you get a call asking if you'd still like a spot. If not, it moves on, if so, you get that person's reservation (the system would only take into account those who's latest times are earlier than the canceled reservation). This would expedite the turnaround on said 3hr cancellations. (Would not affect no shows, as it would already be too late at that point).



I absolutely agree :faint: :flower3:

It sounds like too many people were not showing up so not only were they losing the ADR parties, they were turning away people who could have used those tables hence losing money all the way around and disappointing people at the same time.
This!! Absolutely this! It's not about nickel and diming you as much as making money where people want to spend it, and not having the empty seats.