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View Full Version : Do we think VWL owners will get an extension on their 2042 end date?


edk35
09-04-2011, 10:12 AM
I know they offered that up to OKW owners. What exactly did they have to pay to get that extended? Anyone remember? Thanks

magicaldisney
09-04-2011, 10:35 AM
I believe it was $15 per point and I'm not sure that a lot of members took DVC up on that offer.

edk35
09-04-2011, 10:37 AM
I believe it was $15 per point and I'm not sure that a lot of members took DVC up on that offer.

Oh okay Thanks

Deb & Bill
09-04-2011, 11:36 AM
Probably not. It was very unsuccessful. It started at $15 a point, went up to $20 a point and is now $25 a point. Why pay for something now that you will never use? A waste of money.

disneynutz
09-04-2011, 11:54 AM
I think that the problem with the OKW offer was the way that it was marketed. There was some sort of required document that had confusing instructions and the notification was spotty and inconsistent.

If Disney determines that a $15 per point price tag would make them more money than letting the contracts come to term and reselling the resort, than that is what they will do. It's all in the numbers.

:earsboy: Bill

edk35
09-04-2011, 12:30 PM
Probably not. It was very unsuccessful. It started at $15 a point, went up to $20 a point and is now $25 a point. Why pay for something now that you will never use? A waste of money.

Well if you will it to someone then it would be used that is why I asked.

Deb & Bill
09-04-2011, 03:09 PM
Well if you will it to someone then it would be used that is why I asked.

I don't plan to saddle my son with the MFs that will be extorbitant by then. And who knows what will even be there by then? Something or someplace no one wants to go?

JJSWDW
09-04-2011, 09:51 PM
I'd think for $15/pt I'd do it. For $25, not so much. As has been pointed it, it solves the problem of the resort having no members in 2043.

DizDays
09-04-2011, 09:55 PM
Heck, if anyone takes advantage of it, people are renting one time use points from DVC at $15 a point to supplement a trip. That's not a bad deal. 100 points is only $1500. How many more years was that for?

WebmasterDoc
09-04-2011, 10:57 PM
The vote by the DVD/DVC Board to extend the OKW contracts was in August, 2007. It extended the land lease until January 31, 2057 and gave OKW owners the option to purchase the additional 15 years at $15 per point. That has now risen to $25 per point - for points that cannot be used until February 1, 2042.

Most agree that the OKW extension was poorly handled, with the threat of a lien placed on the contracts of those who did not respond to the "offer". All contracts were extended, but owners had to accept or decline the "offer" and have that decision notarized for either option. Those who declined the extension and had the paperwork notarized were fine, but those who made no response have been threatened with the lien on their account.

VB opened less than 4 years after OKW and we are now more than 4 years after the vote to extend the OKW contracts.

Stay tuned!


We are now beyond 4 years from that vote. We should know soon if other resorts might be offered a similar extension. OKW opened in late 1991, VB opened in 1995, HH and BWV opened in 1996.

jennypenny
09-05-2011, 08:22 AM
I was talking to someone in DVC last month (who's been there since the beginning), I mentioned that we were considering selling our BCV contract because of the 2042 date (too soon for us). He said (confindently) that we'd be offered an extension at some point when they figured out the best way to do it.

So I guess they are trying to learn from their mistakes and figure out another way. I also got the impression that it would happen toward the end of the contract, not anytime soon.

edk35
09-05-2011, 09:20 AM
Heck, if anyone takes advantage of it, people are renting one time use points from DVC at $15 a point to supplement a trip. That's not a bad deal. 100 points is only $1500. How many more years was that for?

See that was my thinking too. I think it took the contract to 2057 so an additional 15 years.

edk35
09-05-2011, 09:22 AM
The vote by the DVD/DVC Board to extend the OKW contracts was in August, 2007. It extended the land lease until January 31, 2057 and gave OKW owners the option to purchase the additional 15 years at $15 per point. That has now risen to $25 per point - for points that cannot be used until February 1, 2042.

Most agree that the OKW extension was poorly handled, with the threat of a lien placed on the contracts of those who did not respond to the "offer". All contracts were extended, but owners had to accept or decline the "offer" and have that decision notarized for either option. Those who declined the extension and had the paperwork notarized were fine, but those who made no response have been threatened with the lien on their account.

VB opened less than 4 years after OKW and we are now more than 4 years after the vote to extend the OKW contracts.

Stay tuned!


We are now beyond 4 years from that vote. We should know soon if other resorts might be offered a similar extension. OKW opened in late 1991, VB opened in 1995, HH and BWV opened in 1996.

Hey Doc...when did VWL open?

disneynutz
09-05-2011, 09:25 AM
Heck, if anyone takes advantage of it, people are renting one time use points from DVC at $15 a point to supplement a trip. That's not a bad deal. 100 points is only $1500. How many more years was that for?

One time use points are limited to 24 max, can only be used at 7 months, and only once per UY.

:earsboy: Bill

Dean
09-05-2011, 09:39 AM
I think that the problem with the OKW offer was the way that it was marketed. There was some sort of required document that had confusing instructions and the notification was spotty and inconsistent.

If Disney determines that a $15 per point price tag would make them more money than letting the contracts come to term and reselling the resort, than that is what they will do. It's all in the numbers.

:earsboy: Bill IMO the largest hurdle was not how it was marketed but how much given the timing. The $15 a point for a consideration over 30 years away was quite a stretch. To get the % of participation they really need, the price needed to be down around $5 a point at the most. The reality is they could have done it for free and still come out looking at the big picture, IMO, they got greedy. I suspect they will offer extensions at some point, they really have to given the other resorts expiring later. The questions are how, when and how much. They could wait until near the expiration when there's a more tangible value present, they could make it conditional on a number of things such as making unqualified points qualified or a free extension with a min add on. One of the problems they have now is they have made their bed with the pricing for OKW. If they offer extensions at a lower level they'll likely have to go back and offer OKW the same deal including rebates for those that did extend.

disneynutz
09-05-2011, 10:02 AM
If Disney had marketed the extension differently with just a little of effort that they put into selling BLT the results would have been different. They could have sent out printed material telling owners what a great deal they are getting, protecting their interests, guaranteeing magical Disney vacations for years to come, produce a web cast explaining the process and benefits, maybe offering a free refillable drink mug, gift card, or magic fast pass.

In reality, I don't think that they really cared if the extension offer was successful or not, same with selling resales.

It's like they don't make any money with anything but new sales or maybe only new sales are credited towards their yearly accomplishments, work evaluations, and pay and bonus treatment.

:earsboy: Bill

Dean
09-05-2011, 10:12 AM
If Disney had marketed the extension differently with just a little of effort that they put into selling BLT the results would have been different. They could have sent out printed material telling owners what a great deal they are getting, protecting their interests, guaranteeing magical Disney vacations for years to come, produce a web cast explaining the process and benefits, maybe offering a free refillable drink mug, gift card, or magic fast pass.

In reality, I don't think that they really cared if the extension offer was successful or not, same with selling resales.

It's like they don't make any money with anything but new sales or maybe only new sales are credited towards their yearly accomplishments, work evaluations, and pay and bonus treatment.

:earsboy: BillMarketing was an issue no doubt but I believe that price was a larger issue. I do think they cared because a response by too small a group put them in the worst situation possible. Better to have nothing than a relatively small %. My take is they simply assumed members would go along like sheep, just like they did with sales for HH and VB. It was, in word, arrogance.

Deb & Bill
09-05-2011, 11:42 AM
Marketing was an issue no doubt but I believe that price was a larger issue. I do think they cared because a response by too small a group put them in the worst situation possible. Better to have nothing than a relatively small %. My take is they simply assumed members would go along like sheep, just like they did with sales for HH and VB. It was, in word, arrogance.

:thumbsup2:thumbsup2 Typical Jim Lewis stuff.

Dean
09-05-2011, 02:10 PM
:thumbsup2:thumbsup2 Typical Jim Lewis stuff.I'm not a JL fan but to be honest, I think he's like the football quarterback, too much blame when things go bad and too much acclaim when they go well. Ken May didn't get the same heat and I believe he had 2 sales failures on his tenure. Then again it's possible his leaving to run RCI was related to those issues.

Carl'n'Ellie'sDad
09-05-2011, 03:19 PM
:thumbsup2:thumbsup2 Typical Jim Lewis stuff.

;):worship:;)

OrangeCountyCommuter
09-05-2011, 07:12 PM
I expect not.

Disney complied with the law and got SLAMMED for it. People felt they should not have to "opt out" but I belive Disney really has no choice. And as an OKW member the "opt out" was not a 'hardship' worthy of the WHINING and CRYING that went on.

Disney learned what they got was not worth the cost. (Heck posters were trying to stir up a class action lawsuit!)


As for me... I do not think leaving a "Liablity' to you heirs is good planning.... And a timeshare is just that. Look at the resale values... you "heirs" get a timeshare that probably won't be selling well with dues they may not be able to afford. GEE what a gift!!!

Dean
09-05-2011, 07:33 PM
I expect not.

Disney complied with the law and got SLAMMED for it. People felt they should not have to "opt out" but I belive Disney really has no choice. And as an OKW member the "opt out" was not a 'hardship' worthy of the WHINING and CRYING that went on.

Disney learned what they got was not worth the cost. (Heck posters were trying to stir up a class action lawsuit!)


As for me... I do not think leaving a "Liablity' to you heirs is good planning.... And a timeshare is just that. Look at the resale values... you "heirs" get a timeshare that probably won't be selling well with dues they may not be able to afford. GEE what a gift!!!What they did was fine with one exception. They do not have the authority to instill a Special Assessment for this purpose by either FL law or the POS as I read them. I'm not sure about a class action suit but I guarantee you that if I had still owned OKW, I would have challenged that aspect. I may still get my chance owning BWV. I do realize they were in a catch 22 situation because the length of ownership is tied to the ground lease. They backed themselves into a corner I believe. What they should have done, and easily could have done I believe, was hold the deeds in trust rather than the legal deed route. That way they didn't need a new deed each time and they just charge an internal fee to change the registration. It also would have shifted more rights to Disney and away from the member, something I'm sure Disney would have been very OK with given their track record.

Greysword
09-05-2011, 10:24 PM
You made some interesting points, Dean, and I was hoping to ask a few clarification questions out of order from your initial statement.

One of the problems they have now is they have made their bed with the pricing for OKW. If they offer extensions at a lower level they'll likely have to go back and offer OKW the same deal including rebates for those that did extend.This is the main point I was curious about. Why would they be required to offer the same deal and possibly a rebate? It is my understanding that each resort is an entity in itself.

If this is true, couldn't they offer extension pricing for one and not the another? For instance if they were to offer an SSR extension, wouldn't it likely be priced much lower than BCV due to the popularity and number of base points involved?

I suspect they will offer extensions at some point, they really have to given the other resorts expiring later.I'm curious as to why. As a devil's advocate, if a low percentage of the membership purchase the extension, then DVD may not be able to move forward with a complete resort renovation should they decide it is the best course of action, which may be desired for resale or re-purposing.

...they could make it conditional on a number of things such as making unqualified points qualified or a free extension with a min add on. This makes a lot of sense for the short term (10+ years), and could be a significant motivator for DVD to recoup additional income from the resale market. It would certain be a powerful motivator in addition to any tiered membership scale.

Thanks.

Dean
09-06-2011, 09:07 PM
You made some interesting points, Dean, and I was hoping to ask a few clarification questions out of order from your initial statement.

This is the main point I was curious about. Why would they be required to offer the same deal and possibly a rebate? It is my understanding that each resort is an entity in itself. Let me clarify. Not required in a legal sense but realistically they'd have far too much heat if they did it this way. Think of it like this. Say you went to buy a car and there was a rebate that started that very day of say $1000. You should have gotten it but didn't and when you found out about it, they refused to fix it. In addition it's likely they'd have legal actions which they don't want even if they know they can win.

If this is true, couldn't they offer extension pricing for one and not the another? For instance if they were to offer an SSR extension, wouldn't it likely be priced much lower than BCV due to the popularity and number of base points involved?They could but I doubt they'll try to micromanage this way. If they were, they would not have included OKW in all likelihood. Regardless, they need numbers to participate, if done now, that means a lower price, even for BCV. Remember you're still buying a pig in a poke for something 30 years away and making a big commitment.

I'm curious as to why. As a devil's advocate, if a low percentage of the membership purchase the extension, then DVD may not be able to move forward with a complete resort renovation should they decide it is the best course of action, which may be desired for resale or re-purposing.My thinking is this. They will still have the resorts to deal with and already have a large infrastructure. Can you imagine cutting back to 2/3 the size they were previously and keeping the management and maint fees in line, I can't. They make money on the management, more members means more money. Less members, not only means less money but a higher per capital internal cost.

Maint of the resort is separate. It's paid for by the members that own that resort. I'd be afraid if I were an OKW owners near the change over time. Fixing the resort up for life after DVC is another matter and members could not be legally required to do so but there are always ways to skirt the issues somewhat.

This makes a lot of sense for the short term (10+ years), and could be a significant motivator for DVD to recoup additional income from the resale market. It would certain be a powerful motivator in addition to any tiered membership scale.

Thanks.They have a lot of options. IMO, DVC/DVD has left so much on the table over the years and missed many opportunities to put themselves in a better position. Of course some of that better position would have come at the cost of members in one way or another. For example, the low pressure sales techniques that so many are proud of have cost the membership a min of 3 off property resorts. (NY, CO and CA).

All just my opinion of course.

chalee94
09-07-2011, 08:39 AM
Hey Doc...when did VWL open?

the "DVC Resource Center" thread stickied above is very useful for answering many DVC questions. post number 5 will answer yours:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2532407

edk35
09-07-2011, 08:49 AM
the "DVC Resource Center" thread stickied above is very useful for answering many DVC questions. post number 5 will answer yours:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2532407


Thanks :)

edk35
09-07-2011, 02:35 PM
How does anyone know if they will be alive by then, I don't get this :confused3

I will be 58 if I live, I can't see that far into the future.

Tito

"Someday my Princess will come" :love:

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i395/tito696969/Snow-White-Pie-small.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i395/tito696969/michael-jackson-tribute-con.jpg


I am thinking more of my contracts being willed to our kids. :)