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going/again
09-03-2011, 12:28 PM
If offering free dining & 42% off at SSR & OKW was not enough they are now giving $150 spending money too, Are we DVC's being taken for a ride, are our dues paying for this :confused3

disneynutz
09-03-2011, 12:41 PM
If offering free dining & 42% off at SSR & OKW was not enough they are now giving $150 spending money too, Are we DVC's being taken for a ride, are our dues paying for this :confused3

No our dues aren't paying for this.

Disney has their own inventory at DVC resorts that they need to fill. Contrary to popular belief, Disney is a company who is in it to make a profit. If discounting rooms, including dining in the cost, and giving extra perks makes them money, that is what they will do. They do not have an allegiance to the DVC Members.

:earsboy: Bill

DebbieB
09-03-2011, 01:05 PM
I think indirectly the members are affected by this. This is why the points for non-DVC resort options keep going up. When members trade out to these options, it's opens up a DVC room that CRO has to rent. Unfortunatly, especially at OKW & SSR, they are having a hard time filling them and have to practically give them away to get something back for them. I think it's part of the reason resales can no longer trade out to the Disney Collection, they don't want more rooms that they have to rent through CRO and lose money on.

Where I fault Disney is they built SSR too big and can't fill it.

going/again
09-03-2011, 01:06 PM
No our dues aren't paying for this.

Disney has their own inventory at DVC resorts that they need to fill. Contrary to popular belief, Disney is a company who is in it to make a profit. If discounting rooms, including dining in the cost, and giving extra perks makes them money, that is what they will do. They do not have an allegiance to the DVC Members.

:earsboy: Bill

So who pays for the extra mouse keeping they get it every day, is it not priced at around $25 for a studio and are owners being made to wait while they do these rooms, its also priced at 971 for the free dining with the 42% plus the minimum of $25 dollars a day for mousekeeping are they are still making a profit?, or are we subsidizing this

Deb & Bill
09-03-2011, 01:15 PM
So who pays for the extra mouse keeping they get it every day, is it not priced at around $25 for a studio and are owners being made to wait while they do these rooms, its also priced at 971 for the free dining with the 42% plus the minimum of $25 dollars a day for mousekeeping are they are still making a profit?, or are we subsidizing this

Disney pays for it. Our dues pay for our maintenance. Our dues pay for our stays.

Fault your fellow members who want to trade out their points for ABD, DCL, or non-DVC Disney resorts.

DebbieB
09-03-2011, 01:23 PM
So who pays for the extra mouse keeping they get it every day, is it not priced at around $25 for a studio and are owners being made to wait while they do these rooms, its also priced at 971 for the free dining with the 42% plus the minimum of $25 dollars a day for mousekeeping are they are still making a profit?, or are we subsidizing this

If they are rooms that are left at 60 days, there will be less breakage income in the dues statement. But if the room is left empty, there will be no income.

DVC has also limited the number of cruise rooms to reduce the number of rooms going to CRO.

going/again
09-03-2011, 02:03 PM
Disney pays for it. Our dues pay for our maintenance. Our dues pay for our stays.

Fault your fellow members who want to trade out their points for ABD, DCL, or non-DVC Disney resorts.

Is this fact can it be proved ?, or is it what you believe happens, I would like to believe this but the sceptic in me cant help but think we are paying for this somehow.

Carl'n'Ellie'sDad
09-03-2011, 07:24 PM
Is this fact can it be proved ?, or is it what you believe happens, I would like to believe this but the sceptic in me cant help but think we are paying for this somehow.

Those are the "rules" -- declared inventory is for members. When members trade in their points for other DVC options, CRO has to make the best of it. I know most of us think JL has played his cards sharply, but selling declared inventory for cash would attract the interest of some government officials. Nothing like that has happened recently, right?:scared1:

In all seriousness, IMO DVD probably views these bargains for SSR, particularly for the UK, as a loss-leader (really a "small-profit" leader) to encourage travel to the World and DVC membership. You might not have considered Disney as a destination; you get a great deal on villa accommodations. Suddenly you are thinking on impulse "Maybe I want to do this more often.". You don't know anything about the resale market -- $15K doesn't seem like that much for five to seven days each year at SSR, particularly if you don't focus on the member fees. The tides talk about all of these wonderful options on and off property. And Disney's "given" you such a bargain already ;). It would be tempting...

MinnieGirl33
09-03-2011, 07:34 PM
Is it showing 42% off the USD rate or the converted rate?

If the discount is off the USD then I can understand the reduced rate a bit better when you consider the Euro is currently about .70 on the USD and if TPTB want to keep the Brits coming they need to adjust accordingly.

I do understand the beef though.

RDP
09-04-2011, 05:43 AM
Is it showing 42% off the USD rate or the converted rate?

If the discount is off the USD then I can understand the reduced rate a bit better when you consider the Euro is currently about .70 on the USD and if TPTB want to keep the Brits coming they need to adjust accordingly.

I do understand the beef though.

I am a DVC member and accept for now Disney is going to provide incentives to get people to come to WDW. I have made this work to my advantage by banking my points every other year and using the deals and free dining in-between. That way I get bigger accommodation when I DVC and I get the free dining and the discount when I pay cash (I also still get to stay in DVC accommodation )

Steve@BWV
09-04-2011, 07:24 AM
What is the true cost to DVC when DVD rents out these rooms at a such a low rate? There is no way for us to know but we do know there is never a benifit for DVC.

These rooms need full housekeeping every day. Are additional staff brought in everyday these rooms are cleaned? My guess there is a simple reimbursement rate from DVD to DVC. But what is the impact and does the reimbursement cover the cost? There are supplies, wear and tear on equipment, slower room turn around, extra linens, etc. I would guess DVC did not push too hard for a high reimbursement to cover the true cost.

Also, with DVD charging such a low rate there is a direct impact on the value of points at specifically SSR but DVC in general. Carl'n'Ellie'sDad says this is a good way to generate sales. Perhaps a few but how many are dissuaded from laying out $15K plus $750 a year in dues for a room only when you can get the room, all your meals and $150 in pocket money, and park tickets for 1/2 the rate most DVC members could hope to secure? I know I would laugh at the salesman.

There is a reason SSR has not come close to being sold out and DVD undermining the value does not help. SSR will always be the worst preforming WDW DVC resort if DVD treats it as such.

going/again
09-04-2011, 08:43 AM
What is the true cost to DVC when DVD rents out these rooms at a such a low rate? There is no way for us to know but we do know there is never a benifit for DVC.

These rooms need full housekeeping every day. Are additional staff brought in everyday these rooms are cleaned? My guess there is a simple reimbursement rate from DVD to DVC. But what is the impact and does the reimbursement cover the cost? There are supplies, wear and tear on equipment, slower room turn around, extra linens, etc. I would guess DVC did not push too hard for a high reimbursement to cover the true cost.

Also, with DVD charging such a low rate there is a direct impact on the value of points at specifically SSR but DVC in general. Carl'n'Ellie'sDad says this is a good way to generate sales. Perhaps a few but how many are dissuaded from laying out $15K plus $750 a year in dues for a room only when you can get the room, all your meals and $150 in pocket money, and park tickets for 1/2 the rate most DVC members could hope to secure? I know I would laugh at the salesman.

There is a reason SSR has not come close to being sold out and DVD undermining the value does not help. SSR will always be the worst preforming WDW DVC resort if DVD treats it as such.

My feelings exactly if these offers had been around when we purchased we would never have done so, but now would lose to much to sell.

going/again
09-04-2011, 08:46 AM
, particularly if you don't focus on the member fees. The tides talk about all of these wonderful options on and off property. And Disney's "given" you such a bargain already ;). It would be tempting...

Think about the MF's and then wouldnt you want the bargain again instead?

Chuck S
09-04-2011, 09:03 AM
Given that this discount is ONLY available to people in the UK, I do not see how it affects the value of any US owners, as such a cash deal is not available to us at all. And given that UK visitor usually stay much longer than the typical 5 to 7 days of US guests, it very well may be worth it to offer this deal to the UK and have those rooms filled for a longer period of time.

Empty rooms at DVC resorts, especially if those rooms are member inventory that was turned over to CRO to offset member trades outside the DVC system benefits no one...least of all DVC Members. Empty cash room would lead to fewer and fewer outside trade options, as evidenced by the restrictions on resale buyers.

Perhaps those complaining would be happy with no cash equivalent trade out options, relying only on RCI for non-DVC options?

RDP
09-04-2011, 10:34 AM
Is it showing 42% off the USD rate or the converted rate?

If the discount is off the USD then I can understand the reduced rate a bit better when you consider the Euro is currently about .70 on the USD and if TPTB want to keep the Brits coming they need to adjust accordingly.

I do understand the beef though.

Us Brits deal in pounds sterling, currently the exchange rate is around $1.59 to the pound, this does almost make the years I use my DVC instead of cash almost as expensive, but as I said in my earlier post at least I get larger accommodation by banking my points every other year and using cash to take advantage of the deals.

going/again
09-04-2011, 11:12 AM
Perhaps those complaining would be happy with no cash equivalent trade out options, relying only on RCI for non-DVC options?

Since I have no interest in trading out wouldnt bother me one bit, but as it's devalueing my home resort, that I do care about.

Deb & Bill
09-04-2011, 11:21 AM
...Perhaps those complaining would be happy with no cash equivalent trade out options, relying only on RCI for non-DVC options?

Or increasing the amount a member pays to make one of the trades from $95 per trade to $295 or higher per trade.

Garthilk
09-04-2011, 08:40 PM
Disney pays for it. Our dues pay for our maintenance. Our dues pay for our stays.

Fault your fellow members who want to trade out their points for ABD, DCL, or non-DVC Disney resorts.

Actually this is not entirely true.

Our dues do pay for housekeeping. The more rooms are turned over due to crazy disney promotions, the more housekeeping and housekeepers are required to clean those rooms. Also the more housekeepers the more healthcare costs associated for any benefited positions.

So our dues do pay for our housekeeping. They also pay for theirs.

DebbieB
09-04-2011, 09:42 PM
Actually this is not entirely true.

Our dues do pay for housekeeping. The more rooms are turned over due to crazy disney promotions, the more housekeeping and housekeepers are required to clean those rooms. Also the more housekeepers the more healthcare costs associated for any benefited positions.

So our dues do pay for our housekeeping. They also pay for theirs.

The question is how much money does DVC get back from the room rate that CRO guests pay. Is it enough to cover the housekeeping costs? We'll probably never know.

Rooms are not "turned over due to crazy disney promotions". They are turned over when members trade out, when rooms are empty at 60 days or rooms DVC itself owns. Disney does whatever they need to do to fill these rooms, rather than leave them empty and get no income.

Tink2312
09-05-2011, 01:21 AM
Don't forget the added bonus of marketing the DVC resorts too. We were considering DVC before we spent 2 fortnight trips at SSR but these stays definitely convinced us that DVC was the way to go.
I no longer want/ need this offer now I'm a member but have no problem with it still running - like pp said, us Brits tend to stay 2-3 weeks and Disney gets back the income from us in other ways. Rather have that than rooms sitting empty. However I can understand the frustration if the resort is rammed with "free diners" during your holiday at SSR/OKW - ultimately though the offer won't last forever :)

Sammie
09-05-2011, 01:24 AM
Actually this is not entirely true.

Our dues do pay for housekeeping. The more rooms are turned over due to crazy disney promotions, the more housekeeping and housekeepers are required to clean those rooms. Also the more housekeepers the more healthcare costs associated for any benefited positions.

So our dues do pay for our housekeeping. They also pay for theirs.

A cash room generates revenue which is used to pay housekeeping.

Honestly as a member I never give it a thought as to whether the rooms, are filled with other DVC members, RCI members that have traded in, renters, or someone paying cash, regardless of what they paid.

If this truly bothers you, I am afraid you are going to be unhappy with DVC for a very long time.

Chuck S
09-05-2011, 08:35 AM
A cash room generates revenue which is used to pay housekeeping.

Honestly as a member I never give it a thought as to whether the rooms, are filled with other DVC members, RCI members that have traded in, renters, or someone paying cash, regardless of what they paid.

If this truly bothers you, I am afraid you are going to be unhappy with DVC for a very long time.

:thumbsup2

And most any other timeshare that is actively selling, as well. The majority of actively selling timeshares offer nearly free stays to bring in sales traffic.

dor1
09-05-2011, 08:58 AM
We own at ssr and are brits who love our dvc and our holidays in florida.
I cant complain about our dvc holidays and the great memories they have given our family.
With these current offers from the u.k it has become increasingly difficult to justify using our points over a cash booking.
We travel as a family of 5 which disney classes as 4 adults and 1 child,we like to eat out every night of the holiday but find to eat on site every night would be too expensive.Whilst we dont mind eating offsite we would love to be able to eat on site more often,on our last trip we ate at boma,turf club and kona cafe.
These meals for us were averaging around $200,we stay for 14 nights so if we had free ddp you can see the saving we might make.
With the 45% off the room and the $150 dollar gift voucher it's tempting to not use our points.
I didnt buy into dvc to rent points or to have holidays elsewhere,and i am still happy with our purchase,it just dosent seem as special and exclusive as it once was.

Brian Noble
09-05-2011, 10:59 AM
Most of this inventory comes from DVC Members using their points to trade out for DCL, ABD, or the Disney Collection. Those points are used to book rooms that are, in turn, rented out to the general public at "market rates", and the revenue received (less a cut to CRO for marketing) is used to pay for the cruise, guided tour, or hotel stay the Member chose.

The general public, when renting hotel rooms or villas, expects daily housekeeping, so it is provided. I suspect there is some mechanism to also recapture some revenue to pay for the higher housekeeping costs---either via the $95 fee, or some other reimbursement from CRO to DVCMC.

Disney also owns points at each resort---some for maintenance intervals (which I'm guessing they do not rent except as breakage) and some from foreclosures, etc. The points Disney owns via foreclosure are theirs to do with as they wish, including rental. I suspect that there is also a mechanism here to recapture those extra costs in some way. You would have to inspect the budget to be sure. I would guess that there is a negotiated rate at which CRO pays DVCMC for these services, but probably not quite the same level that a Member pays for additional cleans.

As for whether or not the accounting is done properly: you have two choices. You can assume that Disney is playing by the rules, or you can be skeptical and live with never knowing for sure. If they are trying to hide some improper transfer payments, you will probably never discover it without having direct access to the accounting data and a *lot* of time and auditor manpower. After all, DVCMC is audited annually, and *those* folks don't find anything improper. What are the chances you will if you go to the Orlando offices and ask to see the books?

Brian Noble
09-05-2011, 11:05 AM
One more thought: as to "devaluing". Disney is not devaluing anything---that's just the price the market will bear. Since the collapse of 2008, Disney has had a very tough time renting their pricier rooms---and the Villas are among the most expensive. They have had to resort to aggressive discounting just to move inventory. That's not Disney's fault. It's the economy's fault. There may even be times when renting is cheaper than owning. But, in the long run, that's not likely to be true over time.

The UK market is often given better promotions than the US market, because folks in the UK tend to take longer vacations to Florida than US guests do. In other words, the marketing expense *per booking* is higher, but *per night* is lower, because a UK guest might stay for two weeks, while a US guest might stay for only one (or less---the average US vacation was something between 3-4 days last time I looked). Those marketing expenses are non-trivial.

TagsMissy
09-05-2011, 12:12 PM
Is it showing 42% off the USD rate or the converted rate?

If the discount is off the USD then I can understand the reduced rate a bit better when you consider the Euro is currently about .70 on the USD and if TPTB want to keep the Brits coming they need to adjust accordingly.

I do understand the beef though.

What does the Euro have anything to do with Brits?? :confused3:confused3

Judique
09-05-2011, 12:20 PM
A cash room generates revenue which is used to pay housekeeping.

Honestly as a member I never give it a thought as to whether the rooms, are filled with other DVC members, RCI members that have traded in, renters, or someone paying cash, regardless of what they paid.

If this truly bothers you, I am afraid you are going to be unhappy with DVC for a very long time.


The reality is an empty room generates nothing but dust.

A sold room will generate income somewhere and keep the economy moving. Some part of the proceeds will be used to pay for housekeeping.

FigmentLady
09-05-2011, 12:33 PM
A few years ago DH and I were upgraded from a room at pop century to a 1br at SSR.
We bought into the DVC a few months later. If we hadn't stayed at SSR I'm not sure we would have taken a tour.

I understand people being upset bc it stinks when you see someone paying less than you for the same experience. However, the UK deals don't apply to me as an American so I can't let that bother me at all. I like to think maybe those same people will do what we did, enjoy the resort so much they fall in love and buy in.

MickeyMcMouse
09-05-2011, 12:35 PM
Look at it from another angle - Disney will NEVER do anything that is loss making.

There will be profit somewhere, whether it's in the actual deal itself or from other sources ie from shopping in their outlets or parks - $60 for a polo shirt !!

If I am not mistaken, the deal includes the basic dinning plan, so there will be opportunity there to upsell.

The profit might actually be keeping the price of our dues down

David

(a UK DVC member, who is actually staying at Saratoga right now - on points ;) )

Judique
09-05-2011, 12:56 PM
These meals for us were averaging around $200,we stay for 14 nights so if we had free ddp you can see the saving we might make.
With the 45% off the room and the $150 dollar gift voucher it's tempting to not use our points.
I didnt buy into dvc to rent points or to have holidays elsewhere,and i am still happy with our purchase,it just dosent seem as special and exclusive as it once was.

I think time takes away the special and exclusive as we get used to a higher standard of living.

That said, I am also still happy with my purchase but don't need it as much now as when I first bought in ten years or more ago.

So I am renting about 1/2 my points this year and next.

That has paid my dues for both years and I am still taking 3-4 trips over the two years. Staying in a combo of studios and one bedrooms, only 2 going.

The renting was so easy I was tempted to not use my DVC and sign up for a free dining offer, or to get a room at Bonnet Creek or use my starwood points and stay at Swan or Dolphin.

But free dining is too much food and I can segment and just buy what I need - get a deluxe plan and do Le Cellier for lunch one day and Narcoosee or the Cali Grill the next night. Then take a dining break and eat junk food in the parks. I usually go for about a week and we've done dining plan quite a few times for the entire trip or we've paid out of pocket before the plans and booked sitdowns everyday. I'm dined out at Disney. It's not really special anymore, but we still like an occasional sitdown.

Anyway, the point is DVC still fits and is cost effective for us. It's been paid for and is still a great product. I don't stress over small housekeeping issues. I don't worry about who gets a better deal. Every deal has it's price.

paulh
09-05-2011, 01:21 PM
uk DVCer here, the original free DDP (starter,main,desert and tip all included)
would say it was going to be a problem (did it a few times ourself)
But with the way its now structured were better of on our points and we have never regretted buying DVC (at $1.60-1)
Just a marketing tool used by Disney to fill rooms which IMHO is getting more and more diluted as the years go by and will eventually stop (have looked at offer and honest not worth booking)
Long Live DVC
Paul