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View Full Version : RFID wristbands for resort guests will we get DVC ones


Sammie
08-17-2011, 08:03 PM
I mentioned previously that with the new LILO system there would be the possiblity of new enchancements that would provide ways for Disney to limit access, this system can be used for fass pass, pools, buses and other tranportation. Basically the sky is the limit.

Do you think we can get DVC ones. ;) And yes if you look at the photos, they come with snaps, so you can take them off.

http://dizfanatic.com/DizTech012.aspx

Goofypop
08-17-2011, 08:10 PM
Okay. I'm loving this. BUT... how will Disney know it's me that has my wristband?

Also, I had to have surgery on my wrists a while back and they are a little larger. Well, actually, they have always been larger. I have always had large hands and large feet so the wrists have been large too. Will they have a wristband that fits me?

TEK224
08-17-2011, 10:04 PM
and what about security concerns of the rfid signal being "stolen". Can it then be used to charge things to my account?

Sammie
08-17-2011, 10:24 PM
Both good questions, it will be interesting to see how it evolves.

disneynutz
08-18-2011, 06:05 AM
The Disney Dream is using RFID for the cabin room keys.

:earsboy: Bill

TisBit
08-18-2011, 06:39 AM
I do not see Disney ever adapting this nearly as wide spread as the company promotes its potential. There are a LOT of concerns with RFID technology and the ability to steal the information using a receiver and duplicating the chips, etc.

Now, the uses that I could definitely see this for....possible room entry, while someone might have the codes, they wouldn't have the room numbers associated. Locker rentals, maybe fastpasses, They "could" link park passes...but that could get iffy and would have to be tied into the biometrics to verify the user. Fastpasses would be doable....but never expect them to do room charging (except maybe at waterparks) or any other activity which could see widespread abuse/fraud.

nickspace
08-18-2011, 11:33 AM
This new system makes us much too connected and makes me very uncomfortable... Big Brother and all that kind of thing.

cseca
08-18-2011, 11:44 AM
I LOVE the options possibly become available but I agree with PPs the scary part is the security aspect of it.
Stolen or lost wristbands could spell disaster with room charging privileges. Plus I'm curious about what info is being stored in the band? Can we wipe the info on there after the trip. I always take our KTTW card home to make sure I shred them.

RocketEAR99
08-18-2011, 11:54 AM
If they could guarantee the security of the RFID technology, I'd be all for this with Disney, but as there are so many proven insecurities with RFID, I don't like it. I also picture someone walking by me when I'm outside the park, snatching off my wristband and bolting.

JKMJ441724
08-18-2011, 11:54 AM
I always take our KTTW card home to make sure I shred them.

I take mine home and keep them in a big box. It's not for security. Now that I'm forced to consider it, I'M NOT SURE WHY I KEEP THEM!! :rotfl:

cseca
08-18-2011, 11:59 AM
I take mine home and keep them in a big box. It's not for security. Now that I'm forced to consider it, I'M NOT SURE WHY I KEEP THEM!! :rotfl:

Well if you're a scrapbooker like me then I completely understand the obsession of keeping trinkets like your KTTW. I always wonder if I could just wipe magnet over the cards if that'll be enough to mess up whatever info is on it. Then I can keep the cards and put them in my books :laughing:

dmoore22
08-18-2011, 01:00 PM
If it can be programmed it can be hacked.

TDC Nala
08-18-2011, 01:21 PM
Eh. I don't use the dining plan and I would carry a credit card (a regular one, no RFID, although eventually it will probably come to all credit cards) rather than have a bunch of money in an account accessible through a RFID bracelet.

Don't want videos of myself either.

So it'll be something to use to get into the room and the park...will they put my annual pass on a wristband and i will just have to keep it all year?

Eventually they are just going to implant a chip in everybody's head.

hakepb
08-18-2011, 02:06 PM
I LOVE the options possibly become available but I agree with PPs the scary part is the security aspect of it.
Stolen or lost wristbands could spell disaster with room charging privileges. Plus I'm curious about what info is being stored in the band? Can we wipe the info on there after the trip. I always take our KTTW card home to make sure I shred them.

And how is that concern different than the many people that wear KTTW lanyards because of EMH?

My main concern with wristbands is sensitive skin that breaks out. I know some people that can almost survive a few hours wearing a wristband, but could never do all day.

LoveToDisney
08-18-2011, 02:41 PM
I could see looping the wristband around a lanyard and wearing it that way if you do not want to wear it on your wrist. I hope they come out with a Captain Jack Sparrow version!!!

cseca
08-18-2011, 02:44 PM
And how is that concern different than the many people that wear KTTW lanyards because of EMH?

...

That's true.
I guess I never thought about it that way because we don't ever wear it (specifically for that reason... accidentally forgotten somewhere, fell off, etc.).

DenLo
08-18-2011, 03:17 PM
I keep thinking about the problems the U.S. Government has with the RIFD chip in passports. The first ones issued could be read by portable scanners that thieves could easily purchase and get all of your personal information.

I thought at Mastercard was get away from the scan a pay cards for the same reason.

I don't about this one. I guess it would depend on the security.

Otherwise they could be really popular especially the custom ones. But I rarely wear a watch anymore and now of all places wearing a wristband at theme park sounds like something that will get lost kind of easy. They'd have to have a really good clasp and not just a simple snap.

wildernessDad
08-18-2011, 03:39 PM
I can see dastardly people sniffing the wristband (not literally) as one casually stands in line for an attraction.

Sammie
08-18-2011, 05:06 PM
I could see looping the wristband around a lanyard and wearing it that way if you do not want to wear it on your wrist. I hope they come out with a Captain Jack Sparrow version!!!

Exactly, I can't wear the wristbands as I have some type of contact allergy to it, but I am fine with putting mine on a lanyard.

It would be easier than having to find your resort ID for EMH as it is done right now, which is a major pain. I kept dropping mine all night.

dwelty
08-18-2011, 05:16 PM
and what about security concerns of the rfid signal being "stolen". Can it then be used to charge things to my account?

I think they could require you to also enter a 4 digit code to confirm your identity before a purchase is completed. No way to steal a pass code from your head.

paulh
08-18-2011, 05:31 PM
in the evening like to get dressed up last thing i want is a day glow wristband on my wrist
Paul

OrangeCountyCommuter
08-18-2011, 05:51 PM
Please NO!

I don't want a special wrist band that says I am DVC.

I try very hard at Disney not to let CMs know that I am either DVC or an AP holder.

Sorry, but I am tired of "guilt by association" and some of my fellow members think that owning DVC means they can "abuse" cast members. If you have ever SCREAMED at a CM "I OWN PART OF THIS PLACE" hang your head in shame. You own part of timeshare. You do NOT own Epcot, MK, AK, etc.. You were not granted "lifetime fast passes" etc.. (I once saw a man just breate a CM because "My DVC card is the same a s a lifetime fast pass" He made a BIG SHOW out of writing down her name, the time etc "so I can report you to management" and stormed off. The girl did look terririfed until I said "I am an DVC member and he's lying" I think he had this act down and it probably works a lot!)

Sammie
08-18-2011, 05:53 PM
Please NO!

I don't want a special wrist band that says I am DVC.

I try very hard at Disney not to let CMs know that I am either DVC or an AP holder.

Sorry, but I am tired of "guilt by association" and some of my fellow members think that owning DVC means they can "abuse" cast members. If you have ever SCREAMED at a CM "I OWN PART OF THIS PLACE" hang your head in shame. You own part of timeshare. You do NOT own Epcot, MK, AK, etc.. You were not granted "lifetime fast passes" etc.. (I once saw a man just breate a CM because "My DVC card is the same a s a lifetime fast pass" He made a BIG SHOW out of writing down her name, the time etc "so I can report you to management" and stormed off. The girl did look terririfed until I said "I am an DVC member and he's lying" I think he had this act down and it probably works a lot!)


I am sure you could get a generic one. This guy would be a jerk regardless of whether he owned DVC or not.

TLSnell1981
08-18-2011, 06:31 PM
Eh. I don't use the dining plan and I would carry a credit card (a regular one, no RFID, although eventually it will probably come to all credit cards) rather than have a bunch of money in an account accessible through a RFID bracelet.

Don't want videos of myself either.

So it'll be something to use to get into the room and the park...will they put my annual pass on a wristband and i will just have to keep it all year?

Eventually they are just going to implant a chip in everybody's head.

I had my credit card "stolen" at Disney. Of course, my card was still in my possession....just lifted my number and damaged the strip.

No CC going on my room..no way to protect the chip in the bracelet.

honeymo78
08-19-2011, 10:12 AM
You actual credit card number doesn't get put on your kttw or the chip. It works kind of like a tab, that Disney only charges to the cc when you hit a certain amount or the night before you check out. Anyone lifting that number/code/strip etc would have a very limited use of that info. If they managed to put that info on another kttw or Disney chip, disputing the charges at the front desk would be pretty easy. We had an erroneous room charge in the past and it was zero problem to have it removed. We also lost a kttw once and the Cm assured us we would not be responsible if someone had used it for charging or park entry. Most recently we've been asked for ID when we charge something to our room key. It surprised me because no one ever checked in the past.

Alexander
08-19-2011, 10:23 AM
Another few years down the road and we'll all have chips in our heads, so you won't have to worry about wearing wrist bands or having them stolen.:lmao:

dianeschlicht
08-19-2011, 10:59 AM
If it can be programmed it can be hacked.

Exactly, and we all know about Disney's lack of good IT. Frankly, this idea scares me.

dmoore22
08-19-2011, 12:42 PM
Exactly, and we all know about Disney's lack of good IT. Frankly, this idea scares me.

There are 99 opensource programs available for free download at sourceforge.net for programming and reading/programming various RFID formats.

"In an effort to make passports more secure, several countries have implemented RFID in passports. However, the encryption on UK chips was broken in under 48 hours. Since that incident, further efforts have allowed researchers to clone passport data while the passport is being mailed to its owner. Where a criminal used to need to secretly open and then reseal the envelope, now it can be done without detection, adding some degree of insecurity to the passport system."

rock_doctor
08-20-2011, 01:00 PM
If it can be programmed it can be hacked.
BINGO! Can you imagine how much you could do with a simple scanner and an iPhone. Walk though a line waiting to get into a park. You could walk away with a hundred or more numbers. What is the chance you won't get each one with charging privileges... Then add to that if it is somebody who works at Disney they now can get your room number and pay it a visit when you are in the park. Just watch your charges and they know where you are at all times... It is just not a safe technology. At least with the mag strip cards they need to have the physical card for a split second to make a copy... I know for us, while they are super cool (sort of) we will demand ours do not have charging privileges, tickets to anything nor can open our room. How long would it take you to walk though a hotel transmitting the door key code before you found the door it opened? Just think what you have in your room when you are staying at Disney...money, computer, phone, electronic games, medicine etc.... In another thread i added links to 11 articles (http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=42292263&postcount=98) that talked about how easily it was to skim and then clone an RFID.

Goofypop
08-20-2011, 01:14 PM
BINGO! Can you imagine how much you could do with a simple scanner and an iPhone.

You do realize that the RFID tech doesn't put off a signal that far right? I mean you have to almost be touching the scanner to be able to activate it. And even then, it takes more than a couple of seconds to do so. I don't know about you, but someone trying to hold my hand tends to get my attention. If you are that unaware at the parks then up your medication or snap out of it. And the RFID replicator would be kind of noticeable in someones hands. :rotfl:

"Pay no attention to me while I stand up against you touching your armband for 3 or 4 seconds while holding this black box to it." :lmao:

One one-thousand, two one-thousand, three one-thousand, four one-thousand. Yes it took you 4 seconds to read that. If someone can hold the black box to your armband for that long without you noticing then you need help.

And you're forgetting something.... who cares enough to even do this? I have worked in the criminal justice field my entire working life and I can tell you that it is a very small percentage of people that would even bother with doing something like this. Really. And the charges could be disputed if it were EVER to occur. The same people that would do this would be the people that are pickpockets and how many times have you heard of someone getting their Disney KttW card stolen and charges jacked up on it? Don't lie. We already know.

People will find anything about anything to gripe about and freak out over. "OMG! That biometric scanner is communist! It is Big Brother keeping tabs on me!" What if someone got my biometric readings? They could steal my identity!" :lmao:

honeymo78
08-20-2011, 01:24 PM
You do realize that the RFID tech doesn't put off a signal that far right? I mean you have to almost be touching the scanner to be able to activate it. And even then, it takes more than a couple of seconds to do so. I don't know about you, but someone trying to hold my hand tends to get my attention. If you are that unaware at the parks then up your medication or snap out of it. And the RFID replicator would be kind of noticeable in someones hands. :rotfl:

"Pay no attention to me while I stand up against you touching your armband for 3 or 4 seconds while holding this black box to it." :lmao:

One one-thousand, two one-thousand, three one-thousand, four one-thousand. Yes it took you 4 seconds to read that. If someone can hold the black box to your armband for that long without you noticing then you need help.

And you're forgetting something.... who the ---- cares enough to even do this? I have worked in the criminal justice field my entire working life and I can tell you that it is a very small percentage of people that would even bother with doing something like this. Really. And the charges could be disputed if it were EVER to occur. The same people that would do this would be the people that are pickpockets and how many times have you heard of someone getting their Disney KttW card stolen and charges jacked up on it? Don't lie. We already know.

And after they have gotten that scan they need to place the info in another band to use.

These aren't credit card numbers they would be skimming. You'd have to hope you scanned someone who wasn't checking out that day as well. There is such a limited market for the information stored on the KTTW cards and these new chips.

If there was money to be made in the information stored on KTTW cards (the same stuff that would be on RFIDs) people would report having KTTW cards cloned. And I totally agree - I can't remember anyone complaining of a stolen KTTW card and unauthorized charges.

You'd still have to get pretty close to a door to unlock it. Someone randomly checking doors will be noticed.

I'd be happy to try out this tech at disney.

Goofypop
08-20-2011, 01:54 PM
I'm completely psyched about it. I am tech geek (PCs, laptops, tablets are common-place in my house) and this is something I think I can really get into. I was worried that my wrists would not fit in the bracelets but they seem to be pretty adjustable so it shouldn't be an issue.

hollis
08-20-2011, 02:07 PM
Sounds really cool. Can't wait to see it.

In Europe and Asia, the tab card is very common. About 10 years ago, it was used for train tickets. Now it is used every where. It works pretty much like a prepaid card that you can use it to board the train, board the bus, buy groceries, pay for movies, parking, you name it. I love this feature when I am visiting those cities. Very convenient. And it doesn't seem to be a big security issue.

Bill K
08-20-2011, 02:43 PM
I would be deeply embarrassed to see a fellow dvc member doing this!!

Lost in Neverland
08-20-2011, 08:26 PM
The thought of this at first seems like a great idea but then when I think of my kids and their lack of ability to keep up with stuff I do not like it. Even at 14 and 13 DH and I still keep the room keys and park passes. Secondly working in the IT industry I can promise you this is an open path to theft and fraud. The people wearing these IDs would be wide open for the hacking. Regardless of the precieved secuirty placed on it if the information is broadcasted it is available for the taking. Count me out on this one.

Goofypop
08-20-2011, 10:04 PM
...working in the IT industry I can promise you this is an open path to theft and fraud. The people wearing these IDs would be wide open for the hacking. Regardless of the precieved secuirty placed on it if the information is broadcasted it is available for the taking. Count me out on this one.

I've worked in the IT field myself before (still do on the side) and you should probably actually read up on Passive RFID before you start scaring people.

For those that are seriously worried about this wristband being "hacked" please read about them and see that the tech does not work the way some of the people here have been saying it does. The wristband emits no signal until it gets hit with the frequency from the transmitter/receiver (The device inside the scanner at the turnstiles and such) and even then you have to be practically touching the band to the transmitter/receiver to get it to broadcast its ID. Then it is matched against the resorts database to see who you are. A database that, the bored out of his skull hacker with nothing better to do in his day, wouldn't have. Even if the person were to be able to stand in one spot and some device you were wearing was actively sending out a ID signal for them to capture (which it doesn't btw), they would have nothing to compare it to to see if it had charging privileges. Are you telling me that they would take all of that info in and program bracelet after bracelet trying to get to one that has charging privileges? :lmao::rotfl2::rotfl:There is only a single piece of info that the bracelet will have stored, a long number (probably 16 digits or so) that will be sent each time it is scanned to Disney's central database and then translated into your information to compare to your reservation. All done in a few seconds. So I tell you what, they can have my RFID number. ;) :lmao:

rock_doctor
08-20-2011, 10:10 PM
For those who are still interested....
http://simplyrfid.typepad.com/simplyrfid1/2008/07/read-range-how-far-can-we-track-you-with-passive-rfid.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10789_3-9875961-57.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmajlKJlT3U

The concerns are valid and should be expressed. I am not saying it is a bad thing but we should be informed consumers and nothing says the bracelets that Disney buys will be the same as the one in the article or will use chips more like what is in a credit card...both passive but can be read a varying distances. Lastly you are correct. It is how Disney uses the data and how much use the number will be to a crook. After all the RFID is really nothing more then a bar code. Which is why i said in my original post it may require somebody who works for Disney...

Goofypop
08-20-2011, 10:20 PM
I guess that 's kind of my whole point. Disney would never put a tech in the field that would leave them and us so open for fraud and theft. We just need to trust them and move on. And honestly, the way this has been put out there it seems that it may be an opt in or opt out situation. If a person wants to continue getting a KttW card because they think their identity will get stolen I think Disney will not make them take off their foil hats and will issue them a card.

Sammie
08-20-2011, 11:37 PM
I've worked in the IT field myself before (still do on the side) and you should probably actually read up on Passive RFID before you start scaring people.

For those that are seriously worried about this wristband being "hacked" please read about them and see that the tech does not work the way some of the people here have been saying it does. The wristband emits no signal until it gets hit with the frequency from the transmitter/receiver (The device inside the scanner at the turnstiles and such) and even then you have to be practically touching the band to the transmitter/receiver to get it to broadcast its ID. Then it is matched against the resorts database to see who you are. A database that, the bored out of his skull hacker with nothing better to do in his day, wouldn't have. Even if the person were to be able to stand in one spot and some device you were wearing was actively sending out a ID signal for them to capture (which it doesn't btw), they would have nothing to compare it to to see if it had charging privileges. Are you telling me that they would take all of that info in and program bracelet after bracelet trying to get to one that has charging privileges? :lmao::rotfl2::rotfl:There is only a single piece of info that the bracelet will have stored, a long number (probably 16 digits or so) that will be sent each time it is scanned to Disney's central database and then translated into your information to compare to your reservation. All done in a few seconds. So I tell you what, they can have my RFID number. ;) :lmao:

:thumbsup2 Thanks for sharing.

Lost in Neverland
08-21-2011, 04:02 PM
I've worked in the IT field myself before (still do on the side) and you should probably actually read up on Passive RFID before you start scaring people.


First and foremost it is my opinion and I am not trying to scare anyone. If you work in the IT field you also know that even though a scenario is unlikely that it can still happen. And just as I give you the right to have your opinion I also have the same right to mine. If you do not like my opinion it still does not give you the right to attack what I think in the manner you did.

Goofypop
08-21-2011, 05:15 PM
First and foremost it is my opinion and I am not trying to scare anyone. If you work in the IT field you also know that even though a scenario is unlikely that it can still happen. And just as I give you the right to have your opinion I also have the same right to mine. If you do not like my opinion it still does not give you the right to attack what I think in the manner you did.

By you stating that you work in the IT field it gives the reader the impression that your statement is a fact and not your opinion. The reader sees that you work in the IT field so you must know more than them about the RFID tech and they take your "opinion" as gospel. And your opinion is based on false information so that is what the reader leaves with. False information.

dmoore22
08-22-2011, 11:17 AM
For those who are still interested....
http://simplyrfid.typepad.com/simplyrfid1/2008/07/read-range-how-far-can-we-track-you-with-passive-rfid.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10789_3-9875961-57.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmajlKJlT3U

The concerns are valid and should be expressed. I am not saying it is a bad thing but we should be informed consumers and nothing says the bracelets that Disney buys will be the same as the one in the article or will use chips more like what is in a credit card...both passive but can be read a varying distances. Lastly you are correct. It is how Disney uses the data and how much use the number will be to a crook. After all the RFID is really nothing more then a bar code. Which is why i said in my original post it may require somebody who works for Disney...

Excellent point and nice links. While in the crowded waiting area for Monsters Inc. Laugh Floor is the guest next to me texting a joke to the Laugh Floor or is he/she using his jail-broken phone to obtain the code from an unsuspecting guest's RFID bracelet? Most guests are honest and this should not be an issue but it only takes a couple of unscrupulous hackers to undermine the safety and security we feel when visiting a Disney property.

Goofypop
08-22-2011, 11:30 AM
Tag! I'm out. :rolleyes: I'm unsubscribing from this thread. This RFID thing has gone far too over the line of ridiculous. Yes, RFID can be broken but no jailbroken phone on it's own has the hardware capabilities to hack a RFID chip. Especially the Passive RFIDs. And while yes, it is possible with the right equipment that ought to be caught by security at check in it is very, very, very unlikely that this will even happen once. Let alone happen to every single person that has charging capabilities on their accounts. I'm going to go to Disney and if they have the bracelets there then I am getting one for each of my family members and I can assure you that we will be just as safe as we would be without the wristbands. ;) It's been real, it's been fun, but....well, you know the rest.

DizDays
08-22-2011, 11:40 AM
I love that Disney is doing what Disney of old did best - exploring current technology to make our lives easier. This idea both excites me as well as gives me a little pause, BUT we also know that Disney will do rigorous testing before rolling anything out. The possibilities here are fantastic and could provide an even more outstanding guest experience. I can't wait to see how this all works.