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dansyr2514
06-30-2011, 08:58 PM
Just wondering what everyone thinks.
I know there have been terms used in this country in the past that really needed to be done away with because they were derogatory to a certain group of people. I agree with that. No person should be judged based on race, creed or color.
However, the other day I was talking to a group of co workers on break about what a silent auction was....we don't have them around here. We do however do something called chinese auctions, where you purchase tickets and put them in the box in front of the item you are trying to win. Kinda like a raffle but you select the items you'd like to put a bid in for.
However, in discussion I was told you don't call them chinese auctions anymore because it is politically incorrect. I don't even know why they are called chinese auctions to begin with.
Just wondering if anyone feels you have to monitor your speech too much for fear of offending someone even though no offense was meant. I'm not talking blatant disrespect, I mean just saying something like Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays. I hope this discussion is within the dis guidelines, but it just got me thinking and wondered what everyone else thinks.

wdwfreeksince88
06-30-2011, 09:12 PM
It seems that the world is that way. At least where I am and where I work. I always say what I want when I want. I know that might not be everyones idea of the right thing to do, but hey it's who I am and I am not changing. But I understand exactly what you are talking about because of where I work. You say something "Politically Incorrect" and people look at you in horror as though you just killed a kitten. Don't get me wrong I don't go around using racial slurs or sexual terms or anything derogatory because I do have more respect for people than that. But I do agree that in today's society there are some people,(not all) that are over sensitive.

Disney Dad Canada
06-30-2011, 10:30 PM
There are lots of terms that people get offended about when the terms origins are falsely believed.

The term chinese auction was coined in the 1940s to mean a penny auction, where people buy tickets and place them in boxes in order to win an individual prize. No bids are being made, as in a silent auction, your odds of winning a given prize increase by placing more tickets in a box for that prize.

The term "chinese auction" was created because at the time, the orient was seen as mysterious and secretive. Nothing derogatory in the least. Some have falsely credited the origin of the term "chinese auction" to mean the perception of chinese being untruthful and deceitful, hence the "politically correctness".

The same goes for the term "rule of thumb", which comes from beer brewing before the invention of thermometers when brewers would use their thumbs to measure the temperature of batches of beer. Feminists treat this term as derogatory, falsely claiming that the term's origin refers to an old law allowing husbands to beat their wives with anything thinner than their thumbs.

While some old terms are derived from derogatory and hurtful ideas, there are many who take this too far, and see hatred and disrespect when none is intended.

aykna
07-01-2011, 09:33 AM
I agree that things have gone too far. However, even though phrases may have started off with a certain innocent meaning, it doesn't mean it hasn't transformed into something else. The new meaning is what eveyone is thinking about when something is said. Unfortunately sometimes it's a group of rotten people who dictated that change.

I personally have no problem saying ( or having someone tell me) Happy Holidays instead because I think of it as being more inclusive of everyone because you don't really know what everyone celebrates.

bicker
07-01-2011, 09:56 AM
However, the other day I was talking to a group of co workers on break about what a silent auction was....we don't have them around here. We do however do something called chinese auctions, where you purchase tickets and put them in the box in front of the item you are trying to win. Kinda like a raffle but you select the items you'd like to put a bid in for. However, in discussion I was told you don't call them chinese auctions anymore because it is politically incorrect. I don't even know why they are called chinese auctions to begin with. One of the most credible understandings of the origination of the term is tied up with a lot of other negative characterizations of Asian culture as being mystical in contrast to Western culture being rational. The characterization is relatively erroneous and the contrast is disparaging (despite Disney Dad Canada's claim to the contrary), and therefore continuing to use a term that stemmed from such erroneous and disparaging origins is not a good thing.

Just wondering if anyone feels you have to monitor your speech too much for fear of offending someone even though no offense was meant.Not in the slightest. Apparently rude comments that stem from ignorance (not realizing that a term is rude) are opportunities to learn. The apparent rudeness turns into actual rudeness when someone insists on continuing to use a term after they are informed that it is rude.

A key aspect of this is that the final arbiter of whether it is rude to use a term, which includes a reference to a group of people, is that group of people: The final judge of whether "Chinese auction" is acceptable or not are people of Chinese origin, not non-Chinese people. Chinese people get to decide, and tell the rest of us, whether the use of the word "Chinese" in any term or reference, is rude or not.

I'm not talking blatant disrespect, I mean just saying something like Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays.I'm not Christian. I should be able to politely reply to your well-wishing using those three words - actually, six words: "Thanks, but I am not Christian" - without negative ramification, and you should use my reply to inform your further well-intentioned interactions with me. "Happy Holidays" is relatively safe, but if you care about me you might get to know me better, and you may discover a more appropriate way of acknowledging that time of year to me (just as I would take your original well-wishing as clear indication that I should be greeting you, that time of year, with "Merry Christmas").

(FWIW, the only holiday I celebrate in December is the Winter Solstice. Just in case you were wondering. ;))

dmccarty
07-01-2011, 10:00 AM
Our local media will not mention race of people for the most part. Not PC.

For instance if we have a Silver Alert for a person, they will mention the person's name, age, height, etc. They will mention health issues and their last known location. But they often will not mention the person's race. :confused3

The same thing happens when there is a crime and they say to watch out for a given person. No mention of race.

Then they will show a photo. :lmao:

Dumb it is.

What is funny is how certain words and phrases are still used though they are very insulting ethnically.

For instance "Paddy Wagon." :lmao:

A Paddy is an Irishman. The police vehicle that could hold a bunch of people, often drunk Irishman, became known as a Paddy Wagon.

Can you imagine people doing the same for another ethnic group today? :confused3;)

Later,
Dan

JenniBugInPink
07-01-2011, 12:21 PM
One of the most credible understandings of the origination of the term is tied up with a lot of other negative characterizations of Asian culture as being mystical in contrast to Western culture being rational. The characterization is relatively erroneous and the contrast is disparaging (despite Disney Dad Canada's claim to the contrary), and therefore continuing to use a term that stemmed from such erroneous and disparaging origins is not a good thing.

Not in the slightest. Apparently rude comments that stem from ignorance (not realizing that a term is rude) are opportunities to learn. The apparent rudeness turns into actual rudeness when someone insists on continuing to use a term after they are informed that it is rude.

A key aspect of this is that the final arbiter of whether it is rude to use a term, which includes a reference to a group of people, is that group of people: The final judge of whether "Chinese auction" is acceptable or not are people of Chinese origin, not non-Chinese people. Chinese people get to decide, and tell the rest of us, whether the use of the word "Chinese" in any term or reference, is rude or not.

I'm not Christian. I should be able to politely reply to your well-wishing using those three words - actually, six words: "Thanks, but I am not Christian" - without negative ramification, and you should use my reply to inform your further well-intentioned interactions with me. "Happy Holidays" is relatively safe, but if you care about me you might get to know me better, and you may discover a more appropriate way of acknowledging that time of year to me (just as I would take your original well-wishing as clear indication that I should be greeting you, that time of year, with "Merry Christmas").

(FWIW, the only holiday I celebrate in December is the Winter Solstice. Just in case you were wondering. ;))
Well said. And we share the same holidays. :hippie:

Our local media will not mention race of people for the most part. Not PC.
For instance if we have a Silver Alert for a person, they will mention the person's name, age, height, etc. They will mention health issues and their last known location. But they often will not mention the person's race. :confused3 The same thing happens when there is a crime and they say to watch out for a given person. No mention of race.
Then they will show a photo. :lmao:

Dumb it is.
That's not stupid, it's irresponsible and dangerous. I hope the community repeatedly points this out. Not everyone can 'see' pictures. Just a thought. I am a bleeding, dripping, oozing heart liberal, but I see the importance of including a description of race. Including race in the description is not politically incorrect or racist, and they surely know that. :mad:

topolino
07-01-2011, 12:50 PM
You know what I find ironic? I believe in celebrating diversity. I truly feel that it's the differences in our cultures that render the world interesting. Yet while we are constantly being told (and rightfully so) to celebrate people's differences, at the same time we avoid referring to people by their race, creed or culture.

So we are unwittingly removing those interesting differences out of fear that pointing out those very differences will be looked at as isulting.

dalt01
07-01-2011, 01:04 PM
whats next?........chinese checkers?.....black diamond steak?....brake retarders?......slave cylinders?........what if someone has a chink in their armor? i"m just being silly........but.........who decides "context"? you are at the mercy of the people who hear what you say and their level of "high and mighty".

aykna
07-01-2011, 01:48 PM
whats next?........chinese checkers?.....black diamond steak?....brake retarders?......slave cylinders?........what if someone has a chink in their armor? i"m just being silly........but.........who decides "context"? you are at the mercy of the people who hear what you say and their level of "high and mighty".

I would agree with you but unfortunately "context" , or how people interpret what you say, doesn't just come up when discussing whether things are politically incorrect or not. Every person does this in all aspects of their life.

bicker
07-01-2011, 03:12 PM
Indeed, and the examples given are missing the fundamental aspects that would make them offensive, i.e., being erroneous and disparaging. If they're not offensive to a group of people, then no one would expect anyone to not use those terms! :confused3

dalt01
07-01-2011, 04:15 PM
I would agree with you but unfortunately "context" , or how people interpret what you say, doesn't just come up when discussing whether things are politically incorrect or not. Every person does this in all aspects of their life.

Indeed, and the examples given are missing the fundamental aspects that would make them offensive, i.e., being erroneous and disparaging. If they're not offensive to a group of people, then no one would expect anyone to not use those terms! :confused3 not missing anything...........if chinese auction was called into play why wouldnt chinese checkers be...my point is they are just words but some people will find a way to make them into a weapon to be turned back against you. the word God is just that a word, but try and bring it up in certain groups who have shunned it, prayer in school for example, and it becomes the catalyist for argument. bring it up in another group that embraces it, church for example, by saying god **** it and you have another argument at polar opposite from the other one.............same word....................soooooo....the "group of people" that you mentioned? who are they, when will they step up and decide what is offensive to THEM and how do you know when they are lurking so you dont say the thing they dont want to hear?

JenniBugInPink
07-01-2011, 05:19 PM
not missing anything...........if chinese auction was called into play why wouldnt chinese checkers be...my point is they are just words but some people will find a way to make them into a weapon to be turned back against you. the word God is just that a word, but try and bring it up in certain groups who have shunned it, prayer in school for example, and it becomes the catalyist for argument. bring it up in another group that embraces it, church for example, by saying god **** it and you have another argument at polar opposite from the other one.............same word....................soooooo....the "group of people" that you mentioned? who are they, when will they step up and decide what is offensive to THEM and how do you know when they are lurking so you dont say the thing they dont want to hear?
You know what though, most folks know what's offensive and what's not. For those thinkgs that come up that you find out along the way (until today I'd never even heard of a chinese auction, much less known about the origin and history of the term), a little common sense goes a long way. And if common sense doesn't get me where I need to go, a big ole "Oh my, I never knew that's what that meant! I am so sorry! I feel terrible! I would never have said that if I'd known! Oh dear!!" (imagine all that in my best Southern drawl, cz that's exactly how it would sound - I'd be mortified in real life!), would have to suffice.

Most folks are pretty talented at sussing out the genuine from the fake, the honest mistake from the put-on. I believe that the heart is the important thing here, don't you? The whole goal of the thing is, or should be, not to hurt people's feelings. I think we've kind of lost sight of that. Being politically correct makes people mad. The idea of not hurting other people's feelings shouldn't make ya' mad. So, I just try to go with that. :cutie:

dansyr2514
07-01-2011, 07:20 PM
Ok..so another question?

I am Christian and was brought up in an Italian Catholic neighborhood, went to Catholic school..the whole nine yards. So it is natural to me to say Merry Christmas! On the other hand, if someone would say Happy Hannukah to me, I would not be offended.
I try to be mindful and say Happy Holidays. I guess I'm wondering do most find if offensive if you say Merry Christmas and they celebrate Hannukah or vice versa.
In my case, I teach dance classes to children. I don't get the time to know each and every child on a personal basis. Around the holidays, I tend to say Happy Holidays, but then again, am I offending someone who does not celebrate at all?
As a society are we getting to uptight? We guard our identities so securely in some cases but then expect others to know what religion or belief we follow.

dalt01
07-01-2011, 08:45 PM
Ok..so another question?


As a society are we getting to uptight? wonderful observation.

Disney Dad Canada
07-01-2011, 10:44 PM
A key aspect of this is that the final arbiter of whether it is rude to use a term, which includes a reference to a group of people, is that group of people: The final judge of whether "Chinese auction" is acceptable or not are people of Chinese origin, not non-Chinese people. Chinese people get to decide, and tell the rest of us, whether the use of the word "Chinese" in any term or reference, is rude or not.

Not necessarily true. For example, if I use the term "rule of thumb" knowing the true derivation of the term, and a woman gets offended because she is incorrect in her assumption if the term's origin, I am in no way being offensive. She is incorrect in her interpretation. Same goes for "chinese auction", black sheep of the family, or any idiom. It's up to the person hearing the term to be flexible, and willing to understand the meaning as it is meant.

As for Happy Holidays, I find it offensive that I can hardly find Christmas cards that actually say "Merry Christmas" on them.

bicker
07-02-2011, 05:09 AM
not missing anything...........if chinese auction was called into play why wouldnt chinese checkers be.Already asked and answered. :confused3

..my point is they are just words but some people will find a way to make them into a weapon to be turned back against you. No, they're not just words. They have provenance. And since the words in question actually effectively "belong" to other people, you should defer to them regarding the use of those words.

the word God is just that a word, but try and bring it up in certain groups who have shunned it, prayer in school for example, and it becomes the catalyist for argument.Luckily, no one, except God, has effective ownership over that word, and God's not lodged any complaints about its use - at least not recently enough for it to matter. :)

Again, the point is that you don't get to decide how a word that describes other people gets used - they do. It is about granting dignity and respect to folks other than one's own self. Do unto others...

bicker
07-02-2011, 05:20 AM
As a society are we getting to uptight?Ask a parent of a young child standing in queue behind a couple of twentysomethings using the f-word and s-word in casual conversation. There, no one is actually being disparaged (expect, perhaps through self-deprecation, which no one can object to), but yet the parents would be irate, and I bet you, or at least most people who would agree with you on this other issue, would be upset about the conduct of those twentysomethings using cuss words. And to be clear, those parents have barely a smidgen of legitimacy with regard to their objections by comparison to those complaining about racial and cultural smears, such as "Chinese auction", since the speech that they would be "uptight" about isn't actually disparaging anyone; it's just crude.

We guard our identities so securely in some cases but then expect others to know what religion or belief we follow.That makes no sense given what you're replying to. The folks you're replying to have all (I believe) said that honest mistakes followed by regret and ceasing using the offensive term is perfectly appropriate. Who are you arguing with, in this case?

bicker
07-02-2011, 05:27 AM
Not necessarily true. For example, if I use the term "rule of thumb" knowing the true derivation of the term, and a woman gets offended because she is incorrect in her assumption if the term's origin, I am in no way being offensive. She is incorrect in her interpretation.You're not making sense: Explain again, please, how women effectively own the word "thumb". :confused3

Same goes for "chinese auction"No, the point is that it is not the same.

It's up to the person hearing the term to be flexible, and willing to understand the meaning as it is meant.Sorry, but no. You're wrong about this. Words that describe groups of people must work differently. We Americans shouldn't be using the word "Canadian" to refer to some disparaging Canadian stereotype.

As for Happy Holidays, I find it offensive that I can hardly find Christmas cards that actually say "Merry Christmas" on them.Make them yourself. I am frustrated that there are far fewer greeting card options for the Solstice.... don't try to make your problems in that regard sound anywhere near as challenging! :)

dansyr2514
07-02-2011, 06:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dansyr2514
As a society are we getting to uptight?

Ask a parent of a young child standing in queue behind a couple of twentysomethings using the f-word and s-word in casual conversation. There, no one is actually being disparaged (expect, perhaps through self-deprecation, which no one can object to), but yet the parents would be irate, and I bet you, or at least most people who would agree with you on this other issue, would be upset about the conduct of those twentysomethings using cuss words. And to be clear, those parents have barely a smidgen of legitimacy with regard to their objections by comparison to those complaining about racial and cultural smears, such as "Chinese auction", since the speech that they would be "uptight" about isn't actually disparaging anyone; it's just crude.

I think these are 2 completely different things. Using the "f" word is not polite or well meaning in any context.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dansyr2514
We guard our identities so securely in some cases but then expect others to know what religion or belief we follow.

That makes no sense given what you're replying to. The folks you're replying to have all (I believe) said that honest mistakes followed by regret and ceasing using the offensive term is perfectly appropriate. Who are you arguing with, in this case?

I'm not arguing with anyone. My point was, in this time people are not as friendly and open. My observation is just that strangers don't make eye contact on a plane or bus. I'm also guilty of it. I couldn't tell you who half of my neighbors are. Yet we are expected to know what that John down the street does not celebrate Easter, and yet we are offending him by saying Happy Easter/

Also I'm hoping this thread can stay on track and be a friendly conversation/ debate.

bicker
07-02-2011, 06:50 AM
I think these are 2 completely different things.They are two relatively different things: The casual use of disparaging references to racial and cultural groups, is actually worse than the use of crude language. Folks that don't want people to be held accountable with regard to casual use of disparaging references will naturally try to discount the negative aspect of that conduct, and if they are personally offended by crude language, then they'll naturally try to make the casual use of crude language sound worse than the casual use of disparaging references, even though it is less offensive conduct overall.

To realize the reality of this, folks may need to put themselves in the position of having their own identity, something they value, disparaged in that manner. That's not an easy thing to do, especially if they've spent their life in positions where they've been part of majorities and such.

My point was, in this time people are not as friendly and open. My observation is just that strangers don't make eye contact on a plane or bus. I'm also guilty of it. I couldn't tell you who half of my neighbors are. Yet we are expected to know what that John down the street does not celebrate Easter, and yet we are offending him by saying Happy Easter/But if you're not making eye contact with John, then why would you say Happy Easter to him? :confused3

Also I'm hoping this thread can stay on track and be a friendly conversation/ debate.Me too. :confused3

Mrs. Sojourner
07-02-2011, 07:03 AM
These are many reasons why I have enjoyed living in the African country I do for the last two years.

I get called "white person" on a daily basis. It's not derogitory; it's a fact. If I tried to explain how this was not PC they would think that was ridiculous (well it would litteraly translate "that's not reasonable").

When describing someone they are very factful. "He is white and tall." "Her sister is the fat one wearing red." "She is the one with the thing on her face (mole)." I'm still not quite used to it after being raised that those comments are rude and not PC.

And as far as holidays go here we could learn a lot as well. They wish each other well on holidays, even if it is not one they personally celebrate. It's not offensive to them; it's just being a part of a community.

Disney Dad Canada
07-02-2011, 02:43 PM
You're not making sense: Explain again, please, how women effectively own the word "thumb". :confused3

I have been told on more than one occasion that I am being offensive to women by using the term "rule of thumb", because they THINK the derivation comes from when it was okay to beat your wife with anything thinner than your thumb. It's the term as a whole, not just the term "thumb".

Because they are wrong in their meaning of the term, I have free range in using it. If there is no derogatory feeling meant in either my usage of the words or their origins, it's not my fault at all if they feel it's derogatory, they need to be more understanding.

Should I stop using the term "rule of thumb" because SOME women think it's offensive? What about black sheep of the family? What about cracker for a white person? It's not the term itself, it's how it's being used. If I mean no offense by it, and it has no offensive derivation, than it's your own problem if you find me offensive, not mine.

dansyr2514
07-02-2011, 03:21 PM
Bicker, I think maybe you're not seeing the forest for the trees or you are playing devil's advocate to keep the debate going.

But, I think most people are responding in broader view than what you are quoting and responding to.

"They are two relatively different things: The casual use of disparaging references to racial and cultural groups, is actually worse than the use of crude language. Folks that don't want people to be held accountable with regard to casual use of disparaging references will naturally try to discount the negative aspect of that conduct, and if they are personally offended by crude language, then they'll naturally try to make the casual use of crude language sound worse than the casual use of disparaging references, even though it is less offensive conduct overall.

You are taking things out of context. There is no debate that intentional derogatory comments toward a particular group are worse than "swearing" My point is certain words are known by almost all to be offensive. If you choose to use those words in an inappropriate situation, the offensiveness is intentional. However, using the term chinese auction is in most cases innocent and not meant to be offensive.

To realize the reality of this, folks may need to put themselves in the position of having their own identity, something they value, disparaged in that manner. That's not an easy thing to do, especially if they've spent their life in positions where they've been part of majorities and such."

I'm going to say most people have been put in this situation. I know that I have, and I generally know if a person is intentionally trying to be cruel or not. Which brings me back to the original point. If a word or phrase is not an intentionallly derogatory, are we being too uptight in trying to re-word phrases that are not intentionally negative. In the sense of political correctness, how much is too much?

wishspirit
07-02-2011, 04:14 PM
I see political correctness if making a minor adjustment in your use of language to ease the life of others.

Therefore if I know a turn of phrase or word is offensive to people (regardless of origin) I will try not to use it. Even if I don't believe it is offensive, I will stop using the term as I believe it makes a much nicer world if we all show each other a little consideration. A tiny bit of effort from me can make the difference to someone else. I know I hate the 'r' word, and I do judge people who use it as misinformed and ignorant. I don't want to be judged the same way by sloppy use of language.

However, the whole 'Happy Holidays' vs. 'Merry Christmas' is a grey area for me. I am not a Christian, but I do follow some of the cultural aspects of christmas, e.g. christmas tree, big meal, seeing family, giving presents etc. as they are not religious in nature. So as I do take part in some of the cultural aspects I see no offence in someone saying to me 'Merry Christmas', as the intention is pure and in the spirit of goodwill. I will often say it back! The intention isn't to be mean, so I take it as it is given.

Disney Dad Canada
07-02-2011, 04:17 PM
Which brings me back to the original point. If a word or phrase is not an intentionallly derogatory, are we being too uptight in trying to re-word phrases that are not intentionally negative. In the sense of political correctness, how much is too much?

In a word, yes. If you look hard enough, someone is going to be offended about just about anything you say. I had one coworker that told me not to talk about Disney around her, as she was Baptist and felt that anything Disney was offensive.

And BTW, yes, there are sayings that Canadians find offensive. One is "Leader of the free world" when referring to the American president. Even though I hate the term, I realize that Americans aren't trying to say they run the entire world (or at least most Americans).

If you don't mean anything by it, people just need to chill out.

Have a nice day (if that isn't too offensive).

Cheshire Figment
07-02-2011, 10:11 PM
A perfect example of political correctness is Disney having caved in to PETA's complaints about the mistreatment and mutilation of Beavers. Which is why they do not sell Beaver Tails at the Canada Pavilion any more.

Disney Dad Canada
07-02-2011, 10:18 PM
A perfect example of political correctness is Disney having caved in to PETA's complaints about the mistreatment and mutilation of Beavers. Which is why they do not sell Beaver Tails at the Canada Pavilion any more.

PETA is a terrorist organization, and should be avoided at all costs. And before you start in on me, try being in a science lab when you're in the last day of a three month experiment, working with extremely high doses of radiation, and a bomb threat alarm goes off. I ended up staying to finish my work, and in the end PETA placed a REAL bomb at our facility, but luckily they made it poorly and it didn't explode.

That said, the Beavertail's booth closing had absolutely nothing to do with PETA. It was due to low sales once they went from fresh to frozen and reheated dough.

bicker
07-03-2011, 05:35 AM
I have been told on more than one occasion that I am being offensive to women by using the term "rule of thumb", because they THINK the derivation comes from when it was okay to beat your wife with anything thinner than your thumb. It's the term as a whole, not just the term "thumb".Yes, I understand that, but earlier you indicated that that and what I was talking about (the use of the word "Chinese" in a manner Chinese people tell you is offensive) are the same. The difference I was pointing out that women aren't called "thumbs" - they're called "women".

Because they are wrong in their meaning of the term, I have free range in using it.And by contrast, Chinese people cannot be wrong in their meaning of the term "Chinese", because that word is what they're called by.

I'm not sure I can explain it better, so perhaps we can just let it end there.


Bicker, I think maybe you're not seeing the forest for the trees or you are playing devil's advocate to keep the debate going. I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree.

But, I think most people are responding in broader view than what you are quoting and responding to.Or a view that better supports what they personally want to do. That's what I am worried really about, that folks deliberately find a way to look past what is legitimately offensive because they don't want people to be held accountable for it. People should be looking to find ways to be better to each other, not looking for ways to excuse being mean to each other.

parrotheadlois
07-03-2011, 10:28 AM
These are many reasons why I have enjoyed living in the African country I do for the last two years.

I get called "white person" on a daily basis. It's not derogitory; it's a fact. If I tried to explain how this was not PC they would think that was ridiculous (well it would litteraly translate "that's not reasonable").

When describing someone they are very factful. "He is white and tall." "Her sister is the fat one wearing red." "She is the one with the thing on her face (mole)." I'm still not quite used to it after being raised that those comments are rude and not PC.

And as far as holidays go here we could learn a lot as well. They wish each other well on holidays, even if it is not one they personally celebrate. It's not offensive to them; it's just being a part of a community.

We visited South Africa and loved it. It just makes so much more sense than all the PCness. :thumbsup2

Karlzmom
07-03-2011, 03:45 PM
Ok..so another question?

I am Christian and was brought up in an Italian Catholic neighborhood, went to Catholic school..the whole nine yards. So it is natural to me to say Merry Christmas! On the other hand, if someone would say Happy Hannukah to me, I would not be offended.
I try to be mindful and say Happy Holidays. I guess I'm wondering do most find if offensive if you say Merry Christmas and they celebrate Hannukah or vice versa.
In my case, I teach dance classes to children. I don't get the time to know each and every child on a personal basis. Around the holidays, I tend to say Happy Holidays, but then again, am I offending someone who does not celebrate at all?
As a society are we getting to uptight? We guard our identities so securely in some cases but then expect others to know what religion or belief we follow.

:thumbsup2 I always wonder why I *should* be offended by someone wishing me well? :confused3 Doesn't really matter if I don't celebrate what they do, the point is they are offering me what they believe to be a good wish/blessing/etc. How can that be bad? I look at it less as being about me, and more from the perspective of the source....its an attempt to share goodwill. Pity more people don't try......

DisneyKevin
07-03-2011, 06:24 PM
:thumbsup2 I always wonder why I *should* be offended by someone wishing me well? :confused3 Doesn't really matter if I don't celebrate what they do, the point is they are offering me what they believe to be a good wish/blessing/etc. How can that be bad? I look at it less as being about me, and more from the perspective of the source....its an attempt to share goodwill. Pity more people don't try......

This is brilliant!:thumbsup2

Just awesome.

mdvlprof
07-03-2011, 11:10 PM
Ok..so another question?

As a society are we getting to uptight? We guard our identities so securely in some cases but then expect others to know what religion or belief we follow.

YES. People need to 'get a life'.

I don't set out to hurt people's feelings, but if I do, don't sulk about it. Tell me, I'll try to remember. Not always successful,:goodvibes but I'll try.

Disney Dad Canada
07-04-2011, 05:39 AM
This is brilliant!:thumbsup2

Just awesome.

I had a woman yell at me for holding a door for her. "Are you holding the door for a WOMAN!!!!!???" I try being nice and STILL get yelled at.

JoShan1719
07-04-2011, 05:57 AM
These are many reasons why I have enjoyed living in the African country I do for the last two years.

I get called "white person" on a daily basis. It's not derogitory; it's a fact. If I tried to explain how this was not PC they would think that was ridiculous (well it would litteraly translate "that's not reasonable").

When describing someone they are very factful. "He is white and tall." "Her sister is the fat one wearing red." "She is the one with the thing on her face (mole)." I'm still not quite used to it after being raised that those comments are rude and not PC.

And as far as holidays go here we could learn a lot as well. They wish each other well on holidays, even if it is not one they personally celebrate. It's not offensive to them; it's just being a part of a community.

:thumbsup2 I always wonder why I *should* be offended by someone wishing me well? :confused3 Doesn't really matter if I don't celebrate what they do, the point is they are offering me what they believe to be a good wish/blessing/etc. How can that be bad? I look at it less as being about me, and more from the perspective of the source....its an attempt to share goodwill. Pity more people don't try......

I agree with both of these. I am not Christian. When I sneeze I often hear, "Bless you." I don't get offended. They are wishing good things on me, why should I get upset with that?

bicker
07-04-2011, 06:07 AM
I agree with both of these. I am not Christian. When I sneeze I often hear, "Bless you." I don't get offended. They are wishing good things on me, why should I get upset with that?That one (specifically) is easy though. When I say, "Bless you," it is short for, "May the Universe in all its glory bless you with health." I would have a problem, though, with someone "praying for my immortal soul" or somesuch, in response to understanding that I'm not a Christian. It's the difference between someone wishing you well based on that which you share (i.e., an appeal to something for better health, even if one person believes that something is something specific and the other person believes that something is the vague concept of reality, itself) versus based on that which you vehemently disagree with each other about. The former is well-wishing; the latter is more like a power play.

It's a bit like giving gifts: Do you give a gift based on what the person you're giving the gift to would appreciate? Or do you give a gift based on what you insist the person you're giving the gift to should agree to appreciate, because you want them to do so?

WebmasterAlex
07-05-2011, 11:09 PM
Every time I see the title of this thread there's an old SR-71 song that pops into my head.....

Well I don't mean to piss you off with things I might say
So when I try to shut my mouth, they come out anyway
So when I speak my mind, that's when we connect
Yeah, but that's not politically correct

Your head's so filled with thought, you can't use your imagination
Like a sky so filled with stars; you can't find a constellation
And everyone's so sensitive to any bad vibration
You're so impressing, while we're regressing

Cuz I don't mean to piss you off with things I might say
But when I try to shut my mouth they come out anyway

There's nothing I believe in more than my own insignificance
So why does everybody think my words can make a difference?
I just don't have time to think up every social consequence
I just keep on talking, and you keep applauding

And I don't mean to piss you off with things I might say
But when I try to shut my mouth, they come out anyway
And if you spoke your mind, you might feel more connected
Until you stand politically corrected

You lean a little to the left or the right, but
You can only see who's on your side
And look a little like a deer in the headlights
A little blind and hypnotized
So you conform with the best of intention
Change comes from inside
And after all, that's what this country was founded on
Do nothing different, just fall in line

Tell me what happened to make us so afraid, that
You couldn't make a Mel Brooks movie today? No!
I saw Blazing Saddles yesterday

I don't mean to piss you off with things I might say
But when I try to shut my mouth, they come out anyway
And I don't mean to piss you off with things I might say
And when I try to shut my mouth they come out anyway... GO!

wdwfreeksince88
07-06-2011, 07:50 AM
Every time I see the title of this thread there's an old SR-71 song that pops into my head.....


Oh my. Quoting Sr-71...I didn't know there was anyone around that still remembered them. lol I used to love them but haven't heard them in years.

PeterPan09
07-06-2011, 08:15 AM
Never heard of the group, but I think I'd love that song!

It always amazes me how many people believe that there is a right guaranteed in the Constitution that they will never have to see or hear anything that may offend them. The mere fact that we are a diverse nation guarantees that at some point in your life, you will run into someone who says or does something that will offend you.

If you are confident in your own beliefs and the choices you have made in your life, why would someone else believing differently or making different choices offend you?

Christians in the US who call themselves persecuted make me laugh. Honestly, someone saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" is persecution?? Someone else saying that they think God is a myth or a fairy tale is persecution?? If your belief is that fragile then you need to do some homework, my friends.

That goes for both sides of the belief debate. If your decision not to believe in a Deity is so fragile that the mere mention of said Deity by someone who does believe offends you, then you may need to do some solidifying of your own.

I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt that they have taken the same time and effort into coming up with their value system that I have. Perhaps they have reached different conclusions than I did, and that's fine with me. My feeling is that the more "offended" someone is, the less confidence they have in their own beliefs and they need to do a little more homework.

Part of the problem with US culture is that we have tended to retreat into what I call "echo chambers". We only have friends who believe as we do. We only watch TV networks that enforce our beliefs. We only read books and newspapers that support our beliefs. We only listen to music that sounds like us. When we do that, we rob ourselves of wonderful opportunities to grow and to learn.

rotlex
07-06-2011, 08:16 AM
I truly feel the PC movement in this country has gone off the deep end, forcing me to be as politically INCORRECT as possible at every given opportunity. ;)

bicker
07-06-2011, 08:24 AM
Part of the problem with US culture is that we have tended to retreat into what I call "echo chambers". We only have friends who believe as we do. We only watch TV networks that enforce our beliefs. We only read books and newspapers that support our beliefs. We only listen to music that sounds like us. When we do that, we rob ourselves of wonderful opportunities to grow and to learn.This should be imprinted on the ballots next year, both for the primaries and the general election.

LilGMom
07-06-2011, 11:52 AM
A perfect example of political correctness is Disney having caved in to PETA's complaints about the mistreatment and mutilation of Beavers. Which is why they do not sell Beaver Tails at the Canada Pavilion any more.

http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/kopfpatsch.gif Please tell me you are kidding. You are kidding right? But then again I wouldn't be surprised if you aren't kidding. Are you kidding?

bicker
07-06-2011, 11:55 AM
CF was not so much "kidding" as projecting what would have been a neat argument to support that side of the discussion, assuming it actually was true. ;)

LilGMom
07-06-2011, 12:02 PM
:thumbsup2 I always wonder why I *should* be offended by someone wishing me well? :confused3 Doesn't really matter if I don't celebrate what they do, the point is they are offering me what they believe to be a good wish/blessing/etc. How can that be bad? I look at it less as being about me, and more from the perspective of the source....its an attempt to share goodwill. Pity more people don't try......

I agree with this. I'm not going to get offended if someone says "Bless you" if I sneeze, or if someone tells me "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Solstice" or even "Happy Yule Lore". I definately don't get offended if a person, male or female, holds a door open for me. I'm not going to get offended if a person tells me that they "will pray for me" when they find out my beliefs, I tend to think 'Thanks and good luck with that'. I feel that PC-ness is out of control here and people need to lighten up and take things with a grain of salt. Hope I didn't offend people that are watching their salt intake with that last comment. :rolleyes1

Cheshire Figment
07-06-2011, 04:12 PM
http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/kopfpatsch.gif Please tell me you are kidding. You are kidding right? But then again I wouldn't be surprised if you aren't kidding. Are you kidding?
Many years ago, before Le Cellier was a steakhouse, they had a signature dish on the menu: Chicken and meatball stew.

After they converted to being a steakhouse and that dish was no longer available, Judy and I would nicely harass the CMs working the Beaver Tail kiosk by asking: "Now that they don't serve the Chicken and Meatball Stew, what do they do with the rest of the beavers?"

Yes, we were aware that the Beaver Tails are actually fried dough, but it was fun to see the reactions to that question. Likewise, what I said in my original post was completely made up, but it was intended to be so far out of line as to be a perfect example of PC.

SamSam
07-06-2011, 09:06 PM
I agree with this. I'm not going to get offended if someone says "Bless you" if I sneeze, or if someone tells me "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Solstice" or even "Happy Yule Lore". I definately don't get offended if a person, male or female, holds a door open for me. I'm not going to get offended if a person tells me that they "will pray for me" when they find out my beliefs, I tend to think 'Thanks and good luck with that'. I feel that PC-ness is out of control here and people need to lighten up and take things with a grain of salt. Hope I didn't offend people that are watching their salt intake with that last comment. :rolleyes1

Well said.