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mb_uh
06-26-2011, 11:33 PM
This seems to come up a lot. And I see all ends of the spectrums from the Dave Ramsey NO DEBT folks to the Disney even if they do not have a job :confused3

So my question is do you think it is ok or would you to Disney or any other vacation if you had any credit card debt.

Assuming:

Great retirement plans for both spouses
Some savings
Debt less then $5000 managable payments
Good rates on all debt and well within families means in secure positions with marketable skills and education.

Vacation would be paid in full from cash and would be less then amount to be fully debt free. Vacation is discounted and while it has lots of perks bugeting will limit finaicial impact.

So would you see this as okay or do you think it is foolish?

RabbitFood
06-26-2011, 11:37 PM
We don't carry credit card debt. The card gets paid off every month--period. If taking a vacation meant we carried a credit card balance--we'd stay home.

ozziejen2000
06-26-2011, 11:50 PM
What type of debt is the $ 5000.00? If it is credit card, I would say do not go. What is small savings? Do you have an emergency fund? If so, then I would go.

papamouse1
06-26-2011, 11:54 PM
If the $5000 represents debt you can eliminate in 1 year max, and making monthly payments is not stressing your budget, we would "consider" going. I am total agreement, we prefer to be out of debt but here's the thing, my experience with my kids at WDW will not be the same 2-3 years from now. I don't like debt, but I refuse to miss those special moments with my kids while they are kids. ;)

si-am
06-26-2011, 11:55 PM
I have credit card debt and I go on vacations. It would be one thing if I couldn't pay my credit card bills, but I can, and I do. No biggie.

Where'sPiglet?
06-26-2011, 11:58 PM
I think it would be preferable to pay off the debt first and then go. If you are capable of saving up the cash for the vacation, then you are capable of throwing more than the minimums at the debt each month and knock it out. Then you could save up the cash for the vacation and go without the debt hanging over your head.

However, if there is some sort of legitimate urgency to taking this trip now, then I'd do what you plan and pay cash for the trip. When I got home, I would really try to knock that debt out and build up your savings some more.

Personal finance is just that....personal. You need to figure out what you are comfortable with doing and then follow through with it and accept the consequences (good or bad) of your choice.

I think in your situation I'd be very tempted to take the vacation considering the assumptions you listed!

disykat
06-26-2011, 11:58 PM
Personally, I would not a vacation if I was regularly using credit cards to finance my expenses. However, that doesn't sound like this is the case.

If you have a small amount of debt, with a plan in place to pay it off that is WORKING, and are not taking on debt on a regular basis, I think a carefully budgeted trip is reasonable.

furb & dez
06-27-2011, 12:19 AM
Any credit card balances get paid off prior to each vacation. Usually, the only thing on the card is vacation prep (flights, hotel, tickets, etc.).

Having credit debt for any other reason means you're living outside your means, in my eyes.

disykat
06-27-2011, 12:34 AM
I have credit card debt and I go on vacations. It would be one thing if I couldn't pay my credit card bills, but I can, and I do. No biggie.

Yikes! :scared1: You may have your credit situation under control, but there are a lot of people who don't understand that just paying the minimum amount they must pay on a credit card bill, while it may keep creditors at bay, isn't keeping things under control!

"No biggie" could be true for someone who is very careful with the way they use credit and keeps an eye on the bottom line, but the same thing could also be a BIG BIGGIE to someone who is not savvy and thinks they are doing fine because they pay the minimum while continuing to dig themselves into larger amounts of debt.

Disneyliscious
06-27-2011, 12:54 AM
OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

tasha99
06-27-2011, 01:16 AM
Yes, I would. I wouldn't do it often enough to get deeper into debt, but I wouldn't put my life off in order to save money. You can scrimp and eat beans and never do anything, but that still doesn't mean you're guaranteed a tomorrow.

Gisele
06-27-2011, 02:59 AM
OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

Very well said, and I most heartily agree. :thumbsup2

Yes, I would. I wouldn't do it often enough to get deeper into debt, but I wouldn't put my life off in order to save money. You can scrimp and eat beans and never do anything, but that still doesn't mean you're guaranteed a tomorrow.

Also in agreement. :)

Beezle2
06-27-2011, 05:29 AM
So true Disneyliscious, it's annoying financial one upmanship. And who cares if someone on a message board thinks I can't afford a vacation. I go when I think I can afford it.

OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

Marionnette
06-27-2011, 07:08 AM
OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.
IOW, if someone chooses to answer to OP's question with an opinion that is contrary to your own, they are being sanctimonious, judgemental, perfect people with huge amounts of wealth, no debt and never squander a penny on frivilous purchases?

Just asking so that we're clear on this.

Seems to me that for someone who views others as being judgemental, you're doing a lot of judging yourself.

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 07:08 AM
So true Disneyliscious, it's annoying financial one upmanship. And who cares if someone on a message board thinks I can't afford a vacation. I go when I think I can afford it.

The op asked for opinions. So People should be slammed for giving them? That makes a lot of sense. People post on subjects they feel strongly about. If someone has deal wit cc debt (I did. I was really stupid after college) or were raised where debt is disdained, they are going to feel strongly enough to answer. No biggie. They are merely opinions of strangers. Who truly cares what a stranger thinks?

Op, we don't carry debt but I think of one isn't just paying minimums on their cc debt that it isn't a big deal. If you were just eeking by, I'd suggest waiting.
We've had to postpone due to financial emergencies, illness, and work problems. It sucks, but I just start planning the next vacation, and realize that just making time for the simple things like family and fun are the important part.

NYEmomma
06-27-2011, 07:19 AM
I say go, for sure!

I may be in the minority in this opinion, but I think there's such a thing as being in a healthy financial position even WITH credit card debt and being in an unhealthy financial position.

If you're regularly making significant payments towards your credit card debt (i.e. not the minimum), can comfortably pay all the rest of your bills & can save enough to take a vacation w/o going into further debt to do so, I say go & ENJOY LIFE!! :hippie:

We've got about $7500 in credit card debt and we're going to WDW in October. We're paying for it in cash with the money that I make doing my part-time WAH job... the condition of saving for vacation was that half of my paycheck would go to the vacation fund & the other half would go towards our credit card debt.

It's taken us over a year to save for it & this is the first vacation we've taken in about 5 years. Yes, credit card debt is bad... but for me, life is just too short to spend anything less than 100% of my time doing my best to enjoy it within reason. We wanted to go while DD was still under 3 and would be free (she'll turn 3 the end of December) and we wanted to take DD on her first vacation before having another child (we're going to TTC in September).

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 07:20 AM
Also, I figure that the op has an understanding if the opinions that will be expressed. She states in the op that these issues come up with feeling. Op you are of course welcome to tell me I am wrong! ;)

gracie1
06-27-2011, 07:20 AM
I have credit card debt and I go on vacation :scared1:
:laughing::laughing::laughing:

tweedlemom
06-27-2011, 07:27 AM
Enjoy your vacation!:thumbsup2

Marionnette
06-27-2011, 07:39 AM
This seems to come up a lot. And I see all ends of the spectrums from the Dave Ramsey NO DEBT folks to the Disney even if they do not have a job :confused3

So my question is do you think it is ok or would you to Disney or any other vacation if you had any credit card debt.

Assuming:

Great retirement plans for both spouses
Some savings
Debt less then $5000 managable payments
Good rates on all debt and well within families means in secure positions with marketable skills and education.

Vacation would be paid in full from cash and would be less then amount to be fully debt free. Vacation is discounted and while it has lots of perks bugeting will limit finaicial impact.

So would you see this as okay or do you think it is foolish?
And to answer the OP's question:

I'm sorry, but the $5K CC debt would be a deal-breaker for me. Other debt (mortgages, car loans, student loans) don't get on my nerves as much as CC debt does. I think it's because I've seen a couple of my siblings allow CCs to ruin them financially (more than once for one brother!).

I wouldn't be able to comfortably vacation knowing that I had that hanging over my head. If I had extra cash, it would go towards paying off those CCs before it would go towards a vacation, no matter how good the deal was. I know that there are a lot of people who don't feel the same way (see above posts). But that's the way I feel about the subject.

kamik86
06-27-2011, 07:48 AM
Honestly it would depend. If I knew I didn't need the credit cards to live, or to finance the vacation (IE the credit card debt would be less on the day after I take the vacation then on the day I book due to me making payments in between, not more due to me using the cards) then I may do so.

I don't see how this is any worse then me taking a trip in Sept with about $5000 in a car loan and about $20,000 in student loans. The car will be much less by the time I take the trip the student loans wont since they are in deferment because I'm in grad school (not a financial hardship or anything they just automatically go in deferment since I'm taking classes half time)

Beezle2
06-27-2011, 08:24 AM
[QUOTE=GinnyEmma;41626997]The op asked for opinions. So People should be slammed for giving them? That makes a lot of sense. People post on subjects they feel strongly about. If someone has deal wit cc debt (I did. I was really stupid after college) or were raised where debt is disdained, they are going to feel strongly enough to answer. No biggie. They are merely opinions of strangers.Who truly cares what a stranger thinks

My point exactally. Who cares :confused3 and why would you ask strangers on a message board what they think you can afford.

The Op sounds good to go to me! Hope you go and have fun OP!

DawnM
06-27-2011, 08:30 AM
Well, you are going to get a variety of answers and you haven't really stated if you have other funds going.......savings accounts, retirement funding, etc....nor have you said how expensive your vacatin is, so really, there is no way to answer your question well.

We have done the Dave Ramsey approach, BUT, we did go on Disney trips while in the process of going through the steps. We just did Disney much cheaper. We stayed off-site in a condo, ate a lot of our own food, got discount tickets, etc.....Disney was just not something I was willing to give up entirely.

Now that we are actually out of debt and have a healthy savings account we still do Disney on the cheap. We prefer it.

Dawn

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 08:30 AM
[QUOTE=GinnyEmma;41626997]The op asked for opinions. So People should be slammed for giving them? That makes a lot of sense. People post on subjects they feel strongly about. If someone has deal wit cc debt (I did. I was really stupid after college) or were raised where debt is disdained, they are going to feel strongly enough to answer. No biggie. They are merely opinions of strangers.Who truly cares what a stranger thinks

My point exactally. Who cares :confused3 and why would you ask strangers on a message board what they think you can afford.

The Op sounds good to go to me! Hope you go and have fun OP!

Why dies it matter why she asked! Perhaps she is just a curious person. One can be interested in the opinions of others without investing in them. No biggie. If you don't like that she asked don't bother reading.

nunzia
06-27-2011, 08:36 AM
If the $5000 represents debt you can eliminate in 1 year max, and making monthly payments is not stressing your budget, we would "consider" going. I am total agreement, we prefer to be out of debt but here's the thing, my experience with my kids at WDW will not be the same 2-3 years from now. I don't like debt, but I refuse to miss those special moments with my kids while they are kids. ;)

:thumbsup2 Most will say no, don't go, but I will tell you that when my kids were little we certainly did this and..if the savings plan for the trip had bumps like it always seems to..like a new air conditioner for the car the week we were leaving..driving across the country..in the summer..we even put some of the trip on a CC:scared1::scared1: oh the horror. I would not have traded the trips with my kids for anything and it was worth actually paying the interest.) Of course being fiscally smart is VERY important and you should never just load up on debt and neglect forward thought of retirement and saving..but you also need a balance of life and, IMO only, take the trip and make the memories..believe me, the kids will gone before you know it.

crisi
06-27-2011, 08:37 AM
OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

Of course. This is a board where most of the people take regular Disney vacations. That isn't a hobby that is going to be sustainable by most people with less than average incomes or poor money management habits. Granted, some people will be able to maintain the hobby with one or the other, but its a much easier hobby to maintain with a good income and a fairly high net worth. And if you try and maintain the hobby with neither, things don't work out too well. With those two things, you generally wouldn't carry credit card debt - there aren't a lot of reasons to. If this board skewed to the people who were planning a one time trip to Disney - the demographics would be different.

To the OP, personally, I'm financially conservative. I didn't use to be. But now, I wouldn't go to Disney with debt I couldn't pay off in a month. Its just too hard to dig out. I give up too much. Its like dieting. Its easier to limit my junk food all year, than to spend three months unable to touch it to loose the weight.

miralys
06-27-2011, 08:43 AM
I would say it's your business. As long as you are not depending on income/loans from other people, no one needs to know or care what is going on with you. (Although, the fact that you ask that here makes me think you might not be entirely comfortable with going while you have the debt).

gracie1
06-27-2011, 08:44 AM
:thumbsup2 Most will say no, don't go, but I will tell you that when my kids were little we certainly did this and..if the savings plan for the trip had bumps like it always seems to..like a new air conditioner for the car the week we were leaving..driving across the country..in the summer..we even put some of the trip on a CC:scared1::scared1: oh the horror. I would not have traded the trips with my kids for anything and it was worth actually paying the interest.) Of course being fiscally smart is VERY important and you should never just load up on debt and neglect forward thought of retirement and saving..but you also need a balance of life and, IMO only, take the trip and make the memories..believe me, the kids will gone before you know it.


Well said:thumbsup2 I have been on vacation where some of it if not all of it has been put on a credit card. Do I regret it?? Absolutely not. Would I do it again?? Absolutely! Everyone is different.

sk!mom
06-27-2011, 08:52 AM
So my question is do you think it is ok or would you to Disney or any other vacation if you had any credit card debt.

Assuming:

Great retirement plans for both spouses
Some savings
Debt less then $5000 managable payments
Good rates on all debt and well within families means in secure positions with marketable skills and education.

Vacation would be paid in full from cash and would be less then amount to be fully debt free. Vacation is discounted and while it has lots of perks bugeting will limit finaicial impact.

So would you see this as okay or do you think it is foolish?

In the situation that you gave, no, I wouldn't take an expensive vacation. Debt of less than $5000 could be paid off immediately by using the savings and vacation money. Then I would feel free to save for a Disney trip and with no debt and the good jobs that you mention should only take a few months.

If you had student loans or something that was going to take years to pay off then I would say, take a modest vacation and then return to pay off mode but you are so close to debt free that you could be done with the debt and vacationing in months not years.

StitchBuddy
06-27-2011, 09:05 AM
Oh my, if my mom had waited to go on vacation until she had no credit card debt we wouldn't have ever gone anywhere. :scared1: She spent from June until Dec paying off vacations and from Jan. until June paying off Christmas. We always had a vacation. I can promise you she never regreted it. We use to do the same until we got older and were more financially secure and yes we have money in all those various places and a house almost paid for. But, we have made huge financial blunders! I think it is best practice to pay off your cc each month, but it is a personal decision. Have fun! ;)

sk!mom
06-27-2011, 09:15 AM
OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.


Funny that a response about how judgmental Disers are is the most judgmental response in the thread.:rotfl: It's also funny that people cry "judgmental" when others disagree with their pov.

I never understand these types of responses. This a discussion board about budgeting so, of course, financial questions will come up. It's an active board because people are willing to respond.

Beezle2
06-27-2011, 09:23 AM
[QUOTE=Beezle2;41627463]

Why dies it matter why she asked! Perhaps she is just a curious person. One can be interested in the opinions of others without investing in them. No biggie. If you don't like that she asked don't bother reading.>>>


:rotfl: If you dont like what I said you could just skip my posts also. My original response was to a post about how fraught with moral judgements, finger wagging, and nastyness these threads can become. It was a good post and I am going to go back and re-read it to remind myself why I read posts but rarely post on threads. :rolleyes:

Karenj2
06-27-2011, 09:28 AM
This seems to come up a lot. And I see all ends of the spectrums from the Dave Ramsey NO DEBT folks to the Disney even if they do not have a job :confused3

So my question is do you think it is ok or would you to Disney or any other vacation if you had any credit card debt.

Assuming:

Great retirement plans for both spouses
Some savings
Debt less then $5000 managable payments
Good rates on all debt and well within families means in secure positions with marketable skills and education.

Vacation would be paid in full from cash and would be less then amount to be fully debt free. Vacation is discounted and while it has lots of perks bugeting will limit finaicial impact.

So would you see this as okay or do you think it is foolish?

IMHO, it depends on what the debt is... If it's CC debt, I'd feel better if I paid it off, and took the vacation the following year. If it's car, mortgage, medical or school debt, I'd be more inclined to go on vacation. That being said, DH and I did go on vacation (to WDW) when we were both basically unemployed (he was on Long Term Disability, I was "self-employed" but the business was not doing well). The reason we went was because DH was FINALLY on the road to recovery from depression, and we needed to celebrate. We never went into debt to go, and I got a "real" job the following month.

momtosam
06-27-2011, 09:31 AM
Go, have fun, try to use cash if you can.

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 09:32 AM
[QUOTE=GinnyEmma;41627511]>>>


:rotfl: If you dont like what I said you could just skip my posts also. My original response was to a post about how fraught with moral judgements, finger wagging, and nastyness these threads can become. It was a good post and I am going to go back and re-read it to remind myself why I read posts but rarely post on threads. :rolleyes:

Lol, so you just brought the nasty in early because it was inevitable? Weird. No one was being nasty.

luvsJack
06-27-2011, 09:34 AM
Funny that a response about how judgmental Disers are is the most judgmental response in the thread.:rotfl: It's also funny that people cry "judgmental" when others disagree with their pov.

I never understand these types of responses. This a discussion board about budgeting so, of course, financial questions will come up. It's an active board because people are willing to respond.

It may be judgmental, but she is right. Most threads like this end up in a huge debate because there are those that go by the "beans and rice or rice and beans" theory of paying off debt and those that think you can pay it off and still have a life of some sort (although, admittedly, you may pay it off slower that way).

And she is correct that sometimes it seems to be a contest of who can suffer the most to pay off their debt.

I don't necessarily agree that the larger population of the dis is high income, just the more vocal members on these kinds of threads. ;)

I have a small (much less than $5000) amount of cc debt, a small amount in student loans (in deferment) and a car note in addition to my mortgage. I am going to WDW for 8 days in November and know that we will be going back two years from then too. In November it will just be me, dh and dd. She will be 13. I don't want to wait until she is older. The one in two years will be to take my dgds for the first time, will not miss it for the world. Could we have memories doing other things? Sure. And we do. But we love wdw, and its something special that the three of us enjoy together--so we will go.

I am increasing my income by going to school, I have a retirement plan, and I am paying down debt. AND I am going to WDW!

OP, you would have to decide what is best for you. If you are not bothered by having the cc debt and by going to wdw, GO. There is nothing morally wrong about it and nothing that will affect anyone else. Go and enjoy! :goodvibes

Sinderelly
06-27-2011, 09:37 AM
We always put our vacations on our Disney Visa and pay everything off before we go. I love those Disney Rewards which allow us to take more vacations :thumbsup2 I think I would go ahead and plan your trip while paying off the CC debt, then take the vacation to celebrate!

Zhoen
06-27-2011, 09:39 AM
Happy Good Monday Morning, Everyone!!!

Hi Disneylicious! Never afraid to speak up! I like that about you. I also like everyone else's opinions... I really like the comment about "personal finance is... personal."

But here is my answer... We have debt. And we have good, very secure jobs. We sometimes pay everything off, then life happens, and rather than "tap" the savings, we throw things on a card and "deal with it later." We *DO* deal with it later... right now we're dealing with a game-changer that hit the whole extended family... Our household size temporarily more than doubled... more food, more furniture (bunk beds, etc), higher electric bills, first we drained our "little" emergency fund, then we ran up some cards... and honestly, I'm not sorry. It was necessary at the time, and tapping the "big" fund is necessarily difficult... Plus, there was an accounting error about two months ago at my work and I didn't get paid for 6 weeks... I lived off of our emergency fund while I was waiting for that to get fixed... then I put that money back... then my car needed brakes (at 40k miles... man was I MADDDD!!!) If I'd totally drained our funds, we wouldn't have had that wonderful cushion.

We are simultaneously paying off our cards now and saving for a Disney trip next year. Whether the cards are paid off or not, and certainly without paying off the cars, or the house we're going. My princesses will only be little once. We do sometimes eat beans (I like them! :) ) I do shop sales and keep a pantry... but we also continue to help our family, which means tough choices. We do cary some debt month-to-month... but we have savings and retirement funds and emergency funds, as well.

So in the end... yes, I would take a big vacation without paying off the cards first, as long as everything else was ticking along alright and I would not be running up new debt or depleting emergency savings to go.

Play nice, kiddies :)

Beezle2
06-27-2011, 09:44 AM
[QUOTE=Beezle2;41628136]

Lol, so you just brought the nasty in early because it was inevitable? Weird. No one was being nasty.

Not sure what I said that was nasty? That I agreed with a post? That this place can be judgemental? Did I tell someone if they didn't like what was posted they could just not read it? Just not sure how I was "nasty" but really you are proving my point. I'm willing to give you the last word so you can move on but I'm done.

neatokimmo
06-27-2011, 09:48 AM
OP - for me it depends on the interest rate. I have some estate and business expenses for about 5K on a CC. The rate is 3% because I work for a bank. That card is being paid off a certain way over a certain period of time.

That being said, we have 4 trips this year (non Disney) that are running about 3K for the year (hooray for points!). Yes I could have put all that money against the card but I didn't because it's not in the plan. My plan covers retirement $, investing $, business $, everyday money....just like how you said your other stuff was in good shape.

Now if my everyday card got ran up for some crazy reason, no way would I book a vacation. My Disney visa is about 12%. My flinch point seems to be about 6%. So 12% would cause me to lose sleep.

Sagginit
06-27-2011, 10:09 AM
i think if you are posting you are unsure of how you feel. what is your instinct leading to? i have found my own balance. i tend to save/pay extra towards student loans late winter into spring. i then take one staycation in the summer and a go away one in the fall so i have less to save/pay down loans. sure i could have put an extra 2,000 towards my loans if i had not gone to disney two years in a row, but it was something i wanted to do while my mother was young and had the time off from work/money to do it with me. but just to be clear, i paid for it in cash and had skipped vacations for the previous two years because i could not afford to pay cash for them and did not feel putting it on my CC and struggling to pay it off would make me happy in the long run. if you will be happy without the vacation and can live without one then i would pay the debt. if you will feel deprived, like you are missing a tradition, like you are missing magical moments with your child that will not be there next year, then perhaps you should go. in the end its about balance. some people can achieve this by going bare bones for a few years, paying off debt, and then living it up. others wind up miserable and need to just take it a little slower to maintain sanity.:goodvibes

ccgirl
06-27-2011, 10:15 AM
This seems to come up a lot. And I see all ends of the spectrums from the Dave Ramsey NO DEBT folks to the Disney even if they do not have a job :confused3

So my question is do you think it is ok or would you to Disney or any other vacation if you had any credit card debt.

Assuming:

Great retirement plans for both spouses
Some savings
Debt less then $5000 managable payments
Good rates on all debt and well within families means in secure positions with marketable skills and education.

Vacation would be paid in full from cash and would be less then amount to be fully debt free. Vacation is discounted and while it has lots of perks bugeting will limit finaicial impact.

So would you see this as okay or do you think it is foolish?

Absolutely. Otherwise we would never go. However, we also pay more than the minimum required on the credit card. We are very much a live by the moment. Tomorrow is not a given, it is a gift and that is how my family chooses to live.

Quite honestly, we have debt that would probably shock most posters on this board. Credit card, two car loans, student loans etc. I'm not going to stop enjoying life just because I have debt. However, I realize some people aren't able to do that.

mombrontrent
06-27-2011, 10:16 AM
Yes I agree, it depends on the intrest rate. We just went to Disney in May. We do have 2 car loans we are paying off at very low intrest rates but we will pay these off well before the term ends. When we extra cash we usually place it on our debt. We have no credit card debt as I pay off my CC EVERY MONTH . I would never pay those high intrest rates. It I didn't have enough to cover it one month, I'd use my line of credit to pay off the CC as that carries a MUCH lower intrest rate. So I will take a trip if I owe no money on CC or line of credit, mortgage and low intrest car loans I will take a trip. I'd rather spend that vacation money paying off the CC if I were you because really it's costing you more and more each month that you are not paying iot down. Why not put that money on your CC and stop throwing your money away to intrest. It's NEVER a good idea to pay the minimum payments on anything, even my mortgage I double up on payments when I can.

nrpofp
06-27-2011, 10:21 AM
OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

That is so well said, and sums up these boards perfectly. We have some debt, but our assets our more than our debts. We have good paying jobs, and manage our finances the way we feel works for us. We do always pay cash for vacation, but we don't cancel a vacation everytime some unexpected expense happens. If you feel you can afford a vacation then go.

SaraJayne
06-27-2011, 10:21 AM
And to answer the OP's question:

I'm sorry, but the $5K CC debt would be a deal-breaker for me. Other debt (mortgages, car loans, student loans) don't get on my nerves as much as CC debt does. I think it's because I've seen a couple of my siblings allow CCs to ruin them financially (more than once for one brother!).

I wouldn't be able to comfortably vacation knowing that I had that hanging over my head. If I had extra cash, it would go towards paying off those CCs before it would go towards a vacation, no matter how good the deal was. I know that there are a lot of people who don't feel the same way (see above posts). But that's the way I feel about the subject.


I agree with you. Put the money you were going to spend on vacation toward the credit card debt. You'll have a zero balance that much sooner. :)

OrangeCountyCommuter
06-27-2011, 10:23 AM
This seems to come up a lot. And I see all ends of the spectrums from the Dave Ramsey NO DEBT folks to the Disney even if they do not have a job :confused3

So my question is do you think it is ok or would you to Disney or any other vacation if you had any credit card debt.

Assuming:

Great retirement plans for both spouses
Some savings
Debt less then $5000 managable payments
Good rates on all debt and well within families means in secure positions with marketable skills and education.

Vacation would be paid in full from cash and would be less then amount to be fully debt free. Vacation is discounted and while it has lots of perks bugeting will limit finaicial impact.

So would you see this as okay or do you think it is foolish?

Were you serious or is this just to stir up the "let me tell you how to live your life posters"?:rotfl2:

At least we have entertainment today! :happytv:

Planogirl
06-27-2011, 10:48 AM
My suggestion is to do what feels right to YOU. What other people believe doesn't really matter one bit. You have to live with yourself and they don't.

In my case, I think that it's fine to take a vacation as long as you don't add debt. Note that I said nothing about already existing debt. :)

jm-mom
06-27-2011, 10:50 AM
OP-Very easy answer, pay off the credit card, build up your emergency fund then go on vacation. Disney World is a wonderful experience and a great way to make memories with your kids but it's not the ONLY way. More than anything, kids want their parents time and attention. Special, lifelong memories can be made without doing so on a vacation that you can't afford just now. I guarantee when they are grown and they talk about their childhood, their relationship with mom and dad will come up first before their trip to Disney. My advice, work on the debt this year, plan some special days at home with the kids, and reevaluate next year. For what it's worth, we fall into the category of no credit card debt, paying it off every month, and have a year's worth of expenses banked. If we weren't in that position we would not take a vacation.

puffkin
06-27-2011, 10:53 AM
Take the vacation! It really sounds like you have everything under control and as long as you aren't adding to the CC debt to do it and are sticking with a good financial plan, you should be fine!

I went to a funeral a few years ago and they read this really great poem about your life being the dash between the birth and death years. It was actually quite powerful...and now one of my favorite sayings is that I am "living my dash". You can have all the money in the world (and no debt) and but what is the point if you aren't actually living your dash?

My parents never had the money to take us on vacations. They were always focused on having no debt, saving for retirement, etc. Now my parents are in an excellent financial position and you know what they regret most? That they didn't do more with us when we were kids. It really came to light when my younger brother died in a car accident at age 17 and they realized he had NEVER been on a real vacation. Life is just too short and my parents won't make that mistake with their grandchildren.

We too have taken vacations at questionable financial times. But we have always been on budget with our bills and had a plan to pay down any type of debt. We have also been working hard to build our savings. We also make so many sacrifices in other areas of our life because vacations are a priority to us. Go on your vacation and enjoy :thumbsup2

Zhoen
06-27-2011, 10:56 AM
Either that is a standard thing at a lot of funerals, or we know each other... the funeral you went to wasn't hear in Maryland, was it?

(I think it's more likely just a great idea that's making the rounds...)

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 10:57 AM
I agree. There is a happy medium. Throwing caution to the wind isn't a healthy kid environment if there are unexpected financial problem, but one wants to make sure to enjoy them too. Not that a vacation is the only way to do so.

Cherinva
06-27-2011, 11:07 AM
I would say that it's your decision. I do go to Disney with debt...however, as I am overpaying and reducing the debt, I am also saving money for a future trip to Disney...so that when it's time for the trip, everything is paid in full, including airfare and spending funds.

DisneyCrazyMomma
06-27-2011, 11:11 AM
We are simultaneously paying off our cards now and saving for a Disney trip next year. Whether the cards are paid off or not, and certainly without paying off the cars, or the house we're going. My princesses will only be little once.

Yes! Some of us, if we waited until we were debt free.. and/or didn't use credit cards, we would never get to go on vacation or do anything. I think that when my child is grown and gone, that will be a bigger regret for me than whether or not I had 5 or 10k in credit card debt.

I agree with you. Put the money you were going to spend on vacation toward the credit card debt. You'll have a zero balance that much sooner. :)

In a perfect world, sure. But for most people... well, see above. I am not directing this at you SaraJayne, but a lot of people who are shocked at the idea of going on vacation with debt have never been in a debt situation. They don't really know what they would do if they actually had to make the choice they are telling you to make.

I'm not saying rack it up and fly off with no regard to money, but it's not the end of the world to carry a reasonable amount of debt. Unfortunately, it's life for a lot of people. And we have to live life, right? :goodvibes

angierae
06-27-2011, 11:27 AM
If I had credit card debt (which I don't, but I don't think I'm "better than other people", we just made a choice a few years ago when we paid off our cards with my FIL's life insurance that we wouldn't carry a balance again after that) but I had a plan to pay them off (and thus was paying more than minimums), then yes, I would vacation.

If I were struggling to make minimum payments, then I would not.

But that's just me. We all have different goals. I have student loans I'm paying off, I'm sure there are plenty of people who say I shouldn't spend thousands of dollars to go to Disney, I should pay off my loans. However, DD is going to be 17 next year and I'm running out of time for family vacations. (Yes, you can vacation with your adult children, but it's a totally different thing.)

Once we get past that trip I will be throwing money at my loans and saving up for my 40th birthday trip to Hawaii, which will be in 2015, hopefully. :)

Natalie's Mommy
06-27-2011, 11:35 AM
We don't carry credit card debt. The card gets paid off every month--period. If taking a vacation meant we carried a credit card balance--we'd stay home.

Any credit card balances get paid off prior to each vacation. Usually, the only thing on the card is vacation prep (flights, hotel, tickets, etc.).

Having credit debt for any other reason means you're living outside your means, in my eyes.

this is me right here! i HATE having credit card debt because it means that you're spending too much, and adding a vacation to that would just be plain dumb! of couse im sure there are extremem exceptions to this, but as a general rule of thumb if you NEED To use credit cards to pay for the stuff you need (or you're buying too many WANTS) you should first get yourself back at 0 and then re-prioritize your spending to include a vacation budget into the mix! :thumbsup2

ccgirl
06-27-2011, 11:36 AM
Take the vacation! It really sounds like you have everything under control and as long as you aren't adding to the CC debt to do it and are sticking with a good financial plan, you should be fine!

I went to a funeral a few years ago and they read this really great poem about your life being the dash between the birth and death years. It was actually quite powerful...and now one of my favorite sayings is that I am "living my dash". You can have all the money in the world (and no debt) and but what is the point if you aren't actually living your dash?

My parents never had the money to take us on vacations. They were always focused on having no debt, saving for retirement, etc. Now my parents are in an excellent financial position and you know what they regret most? That they didn't do more with us when we were kids. It really came to light when my younger brother died in a car accident at age 17 and they realized he had NEVER been on a real vacation. Life is just too short and my parents won't make that mistake with their grandchildren.

We too have taken vacations at questionable financial times. But we have always been on budget with our bills and had a plan to pay down any type of debt. We have also been working hard to build our savings. We also make so many sacrifices in other areas of our life because vacations are a priority to us. Go on your vacation and enjoy :thumbsup2

This, exactly. :thumbsup2 If you are not struggling to put food on the table or pay the bills, I really don't see a problem with going. Unfortunately, life happens sometimes and some of us get into debt a little more than we would like to. As I said, I don't stop living (vacationing) while in debt. I still plug away at it but we still go on vacation.

The way I look at it, debt is debt.

Pakey
06-27-2011, 11:47 AM
I would not. We've always been fiscally conservative; we did not take extravagant vacations when our children were growing up because we didn't believe we could afford it. We took simple vacations and made our memories that way. My children are adults now, 2 of the 3 have children of their own. They do not carry lifelong scars from having had to forego WDW or other elaborate vacations during their childhood and we have many amazing memories that didn't cost us a lot of money. I'm 55 and my husband and I have never had any type of debt other than our home and that debt, too, has been gone for some time now. It wasn't always easy to stay that course but at my age now, I certainly do not regret that we did it this way.

In the end, if you can go to bed at night and not lay there stressing over your decisions or regretting prior decisions, you have made the right choice for yourself.

furb & dez
06-27-2011, 11:48 AM
Funny that a response about how judgmental Disers are is the most judgmental response in the thread.:rotfl: It's also funny that people cry "judgmental" when others disagree with their pov.

I never understand these types of responses. This a discussion board about budgeting so, of course, financial questions will come up. It's an active board because people are willing to respond.This is an interesting observation. One thing I've noticed on this site (DIS) specifically, are lots of people with very thin skin. In the DLR forums, there are people with such poor arguing skills that their method of "persuasion" is to simply repeat themselves, as if it were "oh, we didn't hear you the first four times, now I understand and completely agree you!" :rolleyes1 Then of course, when it's obvious their "stellar persuasion skills" aren't working, they resort to simply calling whomever disagrees with them a troll. Precious (and immature), no?

Since this particular forum is about money, there will always be vastly different viewpoints presented, and all with intense opinions (it's money!).

If you (I'm referring to the general "you", of course) don't want to hear someone's opinion, don't ask! If you do want to hear others' advice, then be gracious (and mature) enough to listen and consider, even if you ultimately decide to discount it.

If you only want to hear opinions that agree with you... well, stick to bullying your family into agreeing with you (or... grow up).

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 11:50 AM
Lol, my ds17 uses that same argument. Then accuses us of not listening if we don't agree.

Minnesota!
06-27-2011, 11:52 AM
Yes, I would. I wouldn't do it often enough to get deeper into debt, but I wouldn't put my life off in order to save money. You can scrimp and eat beans and never do anything, but that still doesn't mean you're guaranteed a tomorrow.

:thumbsup2 After losing many people in my life very suddenly...I no longer "wait for the perfect time". I do things when I want. Go...have fun.

Yes! Some of us, if we waited until we were debt free.. and/or didn't use credit cards, we would never get to go on vacation or do anything. I think that when my child is grown and gone, that will be a bigger regret for me than whether or not I had 5 or 10k in credit card debt.

In a perfect world, sure. But for most people... well, see above. I am not directing this at you SaraJayne, but a lot of people who are shocked at the idea of going on vacation with debt have never been in a debt situation. They don't really know what they would do if they actually had to make the choice they are telling you to make.

I'm not saying rack it up and fly off with no regard to money, but it's not the end of the world to carry a reasonable amount of debt. Unfortunately, it's life for a lot of people. And we have to live life, right? :goodvibes

:thumbsup2:thumbsup2

OP - go! We went once when we literally had 500 to our name. No savings, nothing. WE paid for the trip with our tax return. Sure...that $3000 could have paid off a few bills, but we chose the trip. And we survived....

You only go round once in this world...enjoy it. Those that die with the most money....still die.

mombrontrent
06-27-2011, 11:54 AM
I'm actually amazed at all the people, saying just go! If you have CC debt that means you are already spending too much money. If you had extra cash for a vacation why in the world wouldn't you put that on the CC. It's costing you more and more money each month that you are paying intrest on it, therefore wasting your hard earned moery. Then save up for the vacation. These poor money decisions are the reason why so many people have CC debt in the first place. Don't spend money you don't have. It Ok if you have a mortgage or car loan but always try to get the lowest intrest rate possible and pay things off as soon as possible. Maximize YOUR money, don't waste it by paying intrest on your money if at all possible.

eliza61
06-27-2011, 12:09 PM
1) I have gone on vacations with various types of debt.
2) I have made stupid money mistakes throughout my life that have made my financial planner want to choke the life outta me. ;)
3) Like others, I have lost loved ones suddenly who thought they would be around a lot longer.
4) I've yet to meet a senior citizen who regretted not paying off all their cc's, I have met tons of then who regret not doing things when they were younger.


All this is a round about way of saying, everyone has to figure out what their comfort level is and work within that comfort level.

Would I go on vacation with cc debt, depends? would I go on vacation without an emergency savings in the bank? No. for me credit card debt is way down on my list of things that worry me but that may be that I tend to pay them off within a few months. My tolerance is different. I'm not a person who aspires to a "no debt at all" lifestyle.

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 12:13 PM
I've met many seniors who are unable to pay their bills, for meds and for needed care. They seriously wish they had chosen to save for their future and hate having to depend on their children or the the state.

mombrontrent
06-27-2011, 12:18 PM
:thumbsup2 yes to thisI've met many seniors who are unable to pay their bills, for meds and for needed care. They seriously wish they had chosen to save for their future and hate having to depend on their children or the the state.

SaraJayne
06-27-2011, 12:23 PM
Yes! Some of us, if we waited until we were debt free.. and/or didn't use credit cards, we would never get to go on vacation or do anything. I think that when my child is grown and gone, that will be a bigger regret for me than whether or not I had 5 or 10k in credit card debt.



In a perfect world, sure. But for most people... well, see above. I am not directing this at you SaraJayne, but a lot of people who are shocked at the idea of going on vacation with debt have never been in a debt situation. They don't really know what they would do if they actually had to make the choice they are telling you to make.

I'm not saying rack it up and fly off with no regard to money, but it's not the end of the world to carry a reasonable amount of debt. Unfortunately, it's life for a lot of people. And we have to live life, right? :goodvibes

I do want to say we have debt (a mortgage and car loan), but we don't have credit card debt. No, it isn't the end of the world. Only the OP knows what is best for her family. She asked for my opinion and I gave it. :)

I'm not shocked at people that go on vacation with debt. I've been around the Dis long enough to know people will practically sell the food out of their kids' mouth to take a vacation they "deserve" to Disney ~ whether they can afford it or not. :rotfl:

elainesj
06-27-2011, 12:36 PM
:thumbsup2 After losing many people in my life very suddenly...I no longer "wait for the perfect time". I do things when I want. Go...have fun.



:thumbsup2:thumbsup2

OP - go! We went once when we literally had 500 to our name. No savings, nothing. WE paid for the trip with our tax return. Sure...that $3000 could have paid off a few bills, but we chose the trip. And we survived....

You only go round once in this world...enjoy it. Those that die with the most money....still die.

In a sense, I agree with not waiting until "the perfect time". And yet, I personally could never handle living without being careful with my finances. I am a firm believer that money only stretches so far and then you have to make choices. Money does NOT grow on trees (although with CCs, it's like there is a neverending stream of it!).

I really do my best not to judge other's financial decisions. Like a PP said, personal finances...are personal.

But frankly, if you've made bad financial decisions, don't come crying to me when you run out of money. My brother can never seem to dig himself out of debt and it's not fun to watch. His income should more than cover his basic expenses. Why is he entitled to "live it up" when he doesn't save up for it? Then he looks at me and wonders how I can afford this and that. I've always been in a comfortable enough position that I don't have to worry about not having enough to pay for this or pay for that. A car repair? Annoying...but not a massive deal.

I see some of my co-workers not having enough cash to pay $20 for something until next pay. I would hate living like that (and yes, I know there are circumstances...which is why I do everything possible to be careful). Not long ago we had some worry about possible job loss. Sure I was worried...but when my coworkers were swapping "Plan B" stories, I said it wouldn't be the end of the world for me. I'd stay home until I found another job and we would tighten our belts for those few months.

I feel our culture these days is one of entitlement. I "deserve" everything. My kids are constantly green eyed about everything other people get that they don't have and it drives me batty and I keep hammering in their heads to count their own blessings (which are considerable!!)

This is NOT to say if you don't make much money you can't vacation. Even now, DH and I don't make the kind of money to allow ourselves super expensive vacations every year. This year we made a conscious choice not to do much renos or updates to the house and put our money towards vacationing. So that's what we do, we vacation and we've let a number of things go in the house. A lot of the people around us have been wondering how we manage to go on so many vacations and trips this year. Well, that's why. (Also, it helps that my income has increased a bit)

There is a balance. DH and I do believe in enjoying the "here and now". We just advocate doing it responsibly. When money was tighter, we did camping vacations and overnight trips. Now that our income is larger, we go to WDW and are planning a cruise.

There was a time before I was married when I was a complete spender and frittered away a lot of my money over the span of a few months. It was fun WHILE I was doing it :) The next year, I really regretted it though. I had barely enough left to buy my dh a wedding ring (the one thing my parents did NOT pay for!). At the end of the day, my money could have been put to much better use and the fun I got while spending...just wasn't enough to justify not having that money the following year. I could have gone on a much more conservative spending spree (an oxymoron I know!) and had just as much fun.

I know there are LOTS of different opinions on all ends of the spectrum. My SIL is one who feels that we can die tomorrow so spend whatever you want. For that matter, my dad is a spender too. I await the day I have to support him when he runs out of money. I can't stand to see money "wasted" and watching my dad spend drives me a little nuts some days :) But hey, his money and I don't say much at all....I just save a little more...just in case :)

At the end of the day, it's a PERSONAL decision. But, I am a big believer in making decisions after evaluating the pros AND cons. Do it with your eyes wide open instead of being shocked with the cons a few years down the road.

disykat
06-27-2011, 12:46 PM
OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitledIts like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

Why on earth are you calling people who don't feel like they can vacation with debt "entitled?" I would say it's the opposite. I don't feel like I "deserve a vacation and should take it regardless." I feel like vacations should only be taken by people who can pay for them. That has meant waaaay less vacations for me than I would have wanted, but it's simply a reality for me.

Seriously? Who's entitled?

There have been a lot of thoughtful posts, most taking a middle of the road position - and THIS nastiness keeps getting applauded?

ccgirl
06-27-2011, 12:51 PM
I'm actually amazed at all the people, saying just go! If you have CC debt that means you are already spending too much money. If you had extra cash for a vacation why in the world wouldn't you put that on the CC. It's costing you more and more money each month that you are paying intrest on it, therefore wasting your hard earned moery. Then save up for the vacation. These poor money decisions are the reason why so many people have CC debt in the first place. Don't spend money you don't have. It Ok if you have a mortgage or car loan but always try to get the lowest intrest rate possible and pay things off as soon as possible. Maximize YOUR money, don't waste it by paying intrest on your money if at all possible.

I guess I'm amazed at the people that say not to go that go while they have debt (it's just not credit cards). Why is it okay to have a car loan but not credit card debt? One could also say that by having the car payment was spending money you didn't have. That money should have been saved and cash should have been paid for the car. That "argument" just really does confuse me - why credit card debt is not okay but a car loan is? To me they are both debt. Things we didn't use to pay cash for???

I've met many seniors who are unable to pay their bills, for meds and for needed care. They seriously wish they had chosen to save for their future and hate having to depend on their children or the the state.

Me too. But, I have credit card debt and a healthy 401K. I could use the 401 K to pay off my credit card debt and have some left over but I don't want to. My DH and myself could also use our 401K's to pay off our home but we don't want to. We want that money there to take care of us when we're older so our children don't have to. Just because someone has credit card debt does not mean they do not have a 401K or college accounts for their children.

Pembo
06-27-2011, 12:53 PM
We have debt. We go on yearly vacations. Those vacations don't add to our debt. We typically use our tax return and money I save all year for vacation. Yes that money could help pay down some debt but my kids won't remember that we were debt free. They'll remember our vacations. This year we are headed to Charleston, SC. Last year it was Orlando. Nothing fancy, just fun. It's your money, spend it how you wish.

furb & dez
06-27-2011, 01:00 PM
I'm not shocked at people that go on vacation with debt. I've been around the Dis long enough to know people will practically sell the food out of their kids' mouth to take a vacation they "deserve" to Disney ~ whether they can afford it or not. :rotfl:And these are the same people who will come here and complain "DISNEY IS SO EXPENSIVE!!!!!111!!!1!" and whine about every increase in prices. :rotfl:

Well, duh, Disney is a premium product and will charge whatever the market will bear. Just because the population thinks it "deserves" Starbuck's, doesn't mean that Starbuck's will keep charging Postum prices...

crisi
06-27-2011, 01:17 PM
I guess I'm amazed at the people that say not to go that go while they have debt (it's just not credit cards). Why is it okay to have a car loan but not credit card debt? One could also say that by having the car payment was spending money you didn't have. That money should have been saved and cash should have been paid for the car. That "argument" just really does confuse me - why credit card debt is not okay but a car loan is? To me they are both debt. Things we didn't use to pay cash for???


Personally, I don't like car loans either. But a lot of people believe in "quality" of debt - the idea of "good debt" and "bad debt"

Under this thought:

Bad debt is consumer debt - credit card debt. Its particularly "bad" when it is for temporary items that couldn't be resold for any amount - non-assets. In other words, debt that results in ownership of a Coach purse that could be resold is bad debt, but its not quite as bad as dinner out - which is gone before you get the bill.

Good debt is your mortgage. There is an asset component, its secured by the asset in question, and the debt meets a basic human need that most of us couldn't afford without the loan.

Car debt is secured, tied to an asset you could sell (often for a loss), and for many people, a reliable car is a necessity, and something out of reach without a loan.

Student loan debt is sometimes seen as good debt - its an "investment" in future earnings and college is often out of reach without debt.

I personally am not a fan of anything other that mortgage and leverage debt (leverage debt - you have ample assets, but you get better returns investing than then interest you pay in borrowing - the ample assets are important however - you can borrow yourself into big trouble doing this), but everyone has their own debt tolerance - including vacations on credit cards.

blanq
06-27-2011, 01:19 PM
I would say that it's your decision. I do go to Disney with debt...however, as I am overpaying and reducing the debt, I am also saving money for a future trip to Disney...so that when it's time for the trip, everything is paid in full, including airfare and spending funds.

This is my philosophy too. We travel (to WDW and other places) fairly frequently and we have debt (mortgage and 2 vehicle loans...0% on one of them, no credit card or other consumer debt). We budget our trips, so they are paid in full at the time we go. We both have fairly secure jobs, our emergency fund, etc. I don't bat an eye when it comes to spending money on our vacations.

OP, my only advice is to do what is comfortable for you and your family.

eyor44
06-27-2011, 01:21 PM
OP
I used to be one of the ones who was waiting until everything was paid for until we took a vacation. Oh, we would go see family, but I mean a real vacation. Things never got fully paid off. Something was always coming up. Our financial situation got better, but there is always something. I finally got fed up and told DH we were going, I was tired of waiting. I planned a trip, made monthly payments and didn't put one dime of it on the CC. I felt so much better after that trip, I realized that as a family we needed to get away and do something each year. Doesn't have to be expensive, just away and together. Disney just happens to be our choice of destination. We have decent jobs, savings and bills, just like most families around. I save and do what I can and pay for over half the trip each year through extra stuff.

Only you can decide if it is right for you to go. But if you are comfortable with your financial position, than I vote for going.

mombrontrent
06-27-2011, 01:23 PM
Personally, I don't like car loans either. But a lot of people believe in "quality" of debt - the idea of "good debt" and "bad debt"

Under this thought:

Bad debt is consumer debt - credit card debt. Its particularly "bad" when it is for temporary items that couldn't be resold for any amount - non-assets. In other words, debt that results in ownership of a Coach purse that could be resold is bad debt, but its not quite as bad as dinner out - which is gone before you get the bill.

Good debt is your mortgage. There is an asset component, its secured by the asset in question, and the debt meets a basic human need that most of us couldn't afford without the loan.

Car debt is secured, tied to an asset you could sell (often for a loss), and for many people, a reliable car is a necessity, and something out of reach without a loan.

Student loan debt is sometimes seen as good debt - its an "investment" in future earnings and college is often out of reach without debt.

I personally am not a fan of anything other that mortgage and leverage debt (leverage debt - you have ample assets, but you get better returns investing than then interest you pay in borrowing - the ample assets are important however - you can borrow yourself into big trouble doing this), but everyone has their own debt tolerance - including vacations on credit cards.

Yes this, plus you can get a car loan for a much lower intrest rate then CC. Also just because I get a 5 year car loan doesn't mean I'm not going to try my hardest to pay it off in 2 years vs. the 5 years. I'll save so much intrest and I'll still have my car to drive to get me to work to make me more money.

Disneyliscious
06-27-2011, 01:46 PM
Why on earth are you calling people who don't feel like they can vacation with debt "entitled?" I would say it's the opposite. I don't feel like I "deserve a vacation and should take it regardless." I feel like vacations should only be taken by people who can pay for them. That has meant waaaay less vacations for me than I would have wanted, but it's simply a reality for me.

Seriously? Who's entitled?

There have been a lot of thoughtful posts, most taking a middle of the road position - and THIS nastiness keeps getting applauded?

I didn't call the people who feel like they can vacation with no debt "entitled". I made the comment that many on the DIS feel entitled. My observations are not limited to the Budget Board. I visit other boards on the DIS as well. My observations and opinions were as a whole, thus why I used the term "DIS" instead of "Budget Board" (some of them don't even apply to the Budget Board).

Im sorry you understood it that way, but its not how I meant it. Sometimes in 'text' things can be easily mis-understood.

mb_uh
06-27-2011, 01:47 PM
OP here. I was really curious about the opinions because I do see alot of the DIS community saying that they do not believing in having any debt and yet they take many trips. Maybe much of the community is wealthier or just very conscientious but this seems bizarre since we hear about job loss everyday and the nation is struggling with high consumer debt and bankruptcy and it seems odd to me that the population of DIS is so different from that of the rest of America.

DH and I work really hard and plan to take a vacation every year if possible even while paying back debt that was accumulated do to circumstances out of our control and helping family (my mom). Basically Disney is probably $1000 more (with pin code) then another vacation but means a lot more to the kids and DH and I. However, because it is "Disney" it just seems like so much more elaborate then a beach or sixflags type vacation.

I am grateful for the opinions and suggestions I have received here because it has helped me be more dedicated to saving, paying off debt and making decisions about what is most important.

Obviously, I agree finances are personal but we all know that family, friend and coworkers often have opinions about them even when they no very little details ;)

Thanks for the opinions and you all are welcome to continue arguing. :rotfl:

Disneyliscious
06-27-2011, 01:51 PM
And these are the same people who will come here and complain "DISNEY IS SO EXPENSIVE!!!!!111!!!1!" and whine about every increase in prices. :rotfl:

Well, duh, Disney is a premium product and will charge whatever the market will bear. Just because the population thinks it "deserves" Starbuck's, doesn't mean that Starbuck's will keep charging Postum prices...

This.....from a person who has a siggy that says "Our first trip to WDW! Had fun, a bit disappointed in the lack of things to keep us busy. Next trip: eh, 5 years perhaps? Don't understand the psychosis of wasting time trying to meet actors in fursuits or princess costumes, but, wev.."

According to your siggy, Disney isn't too premium at all. Sounds like you didn't get your moneys worth. Maybe Disney is too expensive?

tnd
06-27-2011, 01:53 PM
For me, it would depend on the type of debt that makes up the $5000 and how much I had in savings. If we're talking $5000 on a 0% interest credit card, I wouldn't worry. If it were at 29%, I wouldn't go on vacation before it was paid off. Also, if I had 3 months of expenses (not income) saved, I would go. If I had $500 in savings, I wouldn't. Life happens and you never known when an unexpected expense will come up.

I'm not a Dave Ramsey follower, and we have a lot of debt (2 mortgages and six-figure student loan debt, though no CC or car loans). We also have high incomes and a significant amount of savings. We are planning a trip to Disney in August and I have never thought about not going because I have debt. Now, if I had high interest CC debt or little savings, I probably wouldn't, but debt alone would not bother me.

Marionnette
06-27-2011, 02:09 PM
Yes! Some of us, if we waited until we were debt free.. and/or didn't use credit cards, we would never get to go on vacation or do anything. I think that when my child is grown and gone, that will be a bigger regret for me than whether or not I had 5 or 10k in credit card debt.



In a perfect world, sure. But for most people... well, see above. I am not directing this at you SaraJayne, but a lot of people who are shocked at the idea of going on vacation with debt have never been in a debt situation. They don't really know what they would do if they actually had to make the choice they are telling you to make.

I'm not saying rack it up and fly off with no regard to money, but it's not the end of the world to carry a reasonable amount of debt. Unfortunately, it's life for a lot of people. And we have to live life, right? :goodvibes
It's unfortunate that people actually think that CC debt has to be part of life. IMO, CC debt is the absolute worst kind of debt you can have. The fees, outrageous interest rates and the changing terms that are hidden in fine print and legalese are what get so many people into trouble. I see CC debt as a millstone around one's neck and it is constantly pulling the debtor down.

A long time ago, I was told that the difference between a rich man and a poor man is "interest". The rich man collects it. The poor man pays it. Which do you (the collective "you", not the PP) want to be?

Disneyliscious
06-27-2011, 02:32 PM
OP here...... Maybe much of the community is wealthier or just very conscientious but this seems bizarre since we hear about job loss everyday and the nation is struggling with high consumer debt and bankruptcy and it seems odd to me that the population of DIS is so different from that of the rest of America.

:

My sentiments exactly....

I would bet half of those who claim they have this and that are sitting at their computer in denial of whats really going on in their lives. Im not saying everyone, but some, yes. There are folks here who truly have made good decisions and have done well for their future and then you have those who like to "keep up with the Jones'", even on a discussion board.

I'm broke and I'm not afraid to admit it. I don't have a savings, am a single mom, and average less than $10 per hour with 2 boys. I do have a small farm with some livestock thats worth a little if an emergency comes up. I live off my land to save money and I feel very fortunate to know how to slaughter my own meat and grow my own fruit and vegetables. Just last week, a neighbor farmer had a cow to break its back. He was going to shoot it and bury it. Instead, me and my 17 year old son went and got it, loaded it up and brought it to the "meat room" as we call it (a small family slaughterhouse). We finished processing it 2 days ago and I now have over 300 lbs of fresh ground beef, rib eye's and T-Bones in my freezer. Im very fortunate to have the equipment and skills to do this and I have taught it to my kids just like my father taught me. I told my father, "you know...I know people who have meals with no meat because they can't afford it and here we are with a thousand dollars of free meat handed to us....and we're people who have meat readily available all the time". Its funny how the world works. Had another family been given the cow it would have been useless to them without the equipment to process it. We gave about 50 lbs of hamburger to my sons girlfriends family and frequently give away pork and deer as well. I may not have money in the bank but I am a VERY blessed person.

Some people choose a life that lets them put money in a bank. Others choose a life that teaches them to survive when times are hard. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. You haven't seen the worst of the economy yet. Some cant fathom how I will survive without money in a bank. Sometimes I can't fathom what some people would do if there were no stores to buy food.

In the end, we are just different people and we live differently. I am no better than you (using "you" in general) because I can slaughter/grow my own food. You are no better than me because you have money in the bank.

Before all this is over....you may be using some of that money in your bank to buy food from me and I may then have to use that money to get services from a doctor for a sick kid, who then uses that money to purchase medicine for his patients. Money is nothing more than a piece of paper to be passed around. Money is not life.

I take my boys to Disney every couple of years and we save and pay for our trip with cash. I dont have any credit cards, but I do have some debt. Last time we went, my youngest was running around AK and he stopped to see a carving on a rock. He looked at me in bewilderment and said "MOM....the YETI!". He had no idea what EE was and continued running around finding clues to this "creature" whom he had read about for years. He eventually rode the ride, and then was even more mystified when we got to Dinosaur. You know that look a kid gives you when they say "WHOAAA" and they look at you out of the side of their eye? The one that lets you know they believe they really have found the place where dinosaur's exist? That look is something money can't buy....and its also a look I would never have seen had I of waited until he was older and we were out of debt.

I bought a pre-historic sharks tooth off eBay a few years ago. He is crazy about sharks. My dad had been digging a hole in the ground with his tractor back in the woods. When my son was in school I went back there and buried the tooth. He got home and I said "lets go back to the hole and see if we can find any fossils (he frequently digs for fossils). Needless to say, he dug up a 5 inch Megaladon (Shark) tooth. Can you imagine the look on his face? I never told him any different and he still lives with the magic that he found this tooth buried in his own land.

What I'm saying is....people who have a little debt or dont have savings shouldn't be made to feel like they can't enjoy certain things. Sure, we can't enjoy many of the nicer things some people have like fine homes and cars and jewelry.....but just maybe.....we don't want to. For some folks, there are things that are more important than money. It doesn't make them any less of a person and doesn't mean they don't work just as hard. I don't have the dollar I had in my purse the day my son found the Yeti, but I do have the memory that I will carry with me a lifetime and so does he.

I guess Im in the minority, but I just don't understand the obsession with money. Life, imo, is so much sweeter without it. Yeah, we all have to have it, but for me, I don't need thousands sitting around in the bank. When I get old, I'll sell my land and rental homes and live off that. I live simple. Its not like I'll need a lot. If I can't sell it...I'll keep working as long as I can. When I can't, I have 2 wonderful sons who will help take care of me just as I have for my mother and father. Its called family.....another thing I am very blessed to have.

Now, lets all go enjoy the one thing we DO have in common......,DISNEY!

RobDIS
06-27-2011, 02:48 PM
OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

OP did ask what people would do given a situation. I don't see a problem with people giving an opinion when it has been solicited.

disneyofcourse
06-27-2011, 02:49 PM
Personally, If I were in your shoes I'd be taking the cash you have saved up and using it to lower the debt. Take a inexpensive weekend vacation, treat your family to a couple of nice dinners, visit museums in a different state for the weekend. Just I wouldn't spend all that money on a Disney vacation with 5k in debt. Maybe if a card was at 0% for a while and you knew it would be paid off before that period ended. That I would be tempted to do, but, probably wouldn't since owing money drives me lo-co .:rotfl:

I'd pay as much off as you can and start chipping away at the payments. Then you could go on a nice vacation without worries or at least less worry.

I think only you know the correct answer of what to do and you should follow what you feel comfortable with. I'm not going to judge you and say oh that person makes bad financial decisions. People do things differently and different things work for different peoples situations.

DisneyCrazyMomma
06-27-2011, 02:54 PM
I do want to say we have debt (a mortgage and car loan), but we don't have credit card debt. No, it isn't the end of the world. Only the OP knows what is best for her family. She asked for my opinion and I gave it. :)

I'm not shocked at people that go on vacation with debt. I've been around the Dis long enough to know people will practically sell the food out of their kids' mouth to take a vacation they "deserve" to Disney ~ whether they can afford it or not. :rotfl:

LOL I agree with you. I really wasn't directing my comments at you. I quoted your comments but then went on to say other things... :)

And you're right, no one "deserves" vacation, to Disney or anywhere else. We want it to different degrees, but it's not a right. Entitlement bugs me a lot. :headache:

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 03:02 PM
Thousands in the bank or thousands in equity. Not much different. I think there is a balance to it all. Either way, you have a plan to take care of yourself in the future. I do agree that knowing how to survive is a good thing. :)

As far as the people who choose debt free and vacation, some of us are older and I figure that at least a few are like me and made dumb choices out of college and feel fervently because of the price we paid. Experience personal and professional has taught me to treasure people but to express it with common sense. Priorities are funny too. I take travel as a priority. I know others who love jewelry or electronics. My fun money all goes to travel, and books.

Minnesota!
06-27-2011, 03:04 PM
My sentiments exactly....

I would bet half of those who claim they have this and that are sitting at their computer in denial of whats really going on in their lives. Im not saying everyone, but some, yes. There are folks here who truly have made good decisions and have done well for their future and then you have those who like to "keep up with the Jones'", even on a discussion board.

I'm broke and I'm not afraid to admit it. I don't have a savings, am a single mom, and average less than $10 per hour with 2 boys. I do have a small farm with some livestock thats worth a little if an emergency comes up. I live off my land to save money and I feel very fortunate to know how to slaughter my own meat and grow my own fruit and vegetables. Just last week, a neighbor farmer had a cow to break its back. He was going to shoot it and bury it. Instead, me and my 17 year old son went and got it, loaded it up and brought it to the "meat room" as we call it (a small family slaughterhouse). We finished processing it 2 days ago and I now have over 300 lbs of fresh ground beef, rib eye's and T-Bones in my freezer. Im very fortunate to have the equipment and skills to do this and I have taught it to my kids just like my father taught me. I told my father, "you know...I know people who have meals with no meat because they can't afford it and here we are with a thousand dollars of free meat handed to us....and we're people who have meat readily available all the time". Its funny how the world works. Had another family been given the cow it would have been useless to them without the equipment to process it. We gave about 50 lbs of hamburger to my sons girlfriends family and frequently give away pork and deer as well. I may not have money in the bank but I am a VERY blessed person.

Some people choose a life that lets them put money in a bank. Others choose a life that teaches them to survive when times are hard. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. You haven't seen the worst of the economy yet. Some cant fathom how I will survive without money in a bank. Sometimes I can't fathom what some people would do if there were no stores to buy food.

In the end, we are just different people and we live differently. I am no better than you (using "you" in general) because I can slaughter/grow my own food. You are no better than me because you have money in the bank.

Before all this is over....you may be using some of that money in your bank to buy food from me and I may then have to use that money to get services from a doctor for a sick kid, who then uses that money to purchase medicine for his patients. Money is nothing more than a piece of paper to be passed around. Money is not life.

I take my boys to Disney every couple of years and we save and pay for our trip with cash. I dont have any credit cards, but I do have some debt. Last time we went, my youngest was running around AK and he stopped to see a carving on a rock. He looked at me in bewilderment and said "MOM....the YETI!". He had no idea what EE was and continued running around finding clues to this "creature" whom he had read about for years. He eventually rode the ride, and then was even more mystified when we got to Dinosaur. You know that look a kid gives you when they say "WHOAAA" and they look at you out of the side of their eye? The one that lets you know they believe they really have found the place where dinosaur's exist? That look is something money can't buy....and its also a look I would never have seen had I of waited until he was older and we were out of debt.

I bought a pre-historic sharks tooth off eBay a few years ago. He is crazy about sharks. My dad had been digging a hole in the ground with his tractor back in the woods. When my son was in school I went back there and buried the tooth. He got home and I said "lets go back to the hole and see if we can find any fossils (he frequently digs for fossils). Needless to say, he dug up a 5 inch Megaladon (Shark) tooth. Can you imagine the look on his face? I never told him any different and he still lives with the magic that he found this tooth buried in his own land.

What I'm saying is....people who have a little debt or dont have savings shouldn't be made to feel like they can't enjoy certain things. Sure, we can't enjoy many of the nicer things some people have like fine homes and cars and jewelry.....but just maybe.....we don't want to. For some folks, there are things that are more important than money. It doesn't make them any less of a person and doesn't mean they don't work just as hard. I don't have the dollar I had in my purse the day my son found the Yeti, but I do have the memory that I will carry with me a lifetime and so does he.

I guess Im in the minority, but I just don't understand the obsession with money. Life, imo, is so much sweeter without it. Yeah, we all have to have it, but for me, I don't need thousands sitting around in the bank. When I get old, I'll sell my land and rental homes and live off that. I live simple. Its not like I'll need a lot. If I can't sell it...I'll keep working as long as I can. When I can't, I have 2 wonderful sons who will help take care of me just as I have for my mother and father. Its called family.....another thing I am very blessed to have.

Now, lets all go enjoy the one thing we DO have in common......,DISNEY!

:thanks::lovestruc

EXACTLY!!!

Just because someone has more money than me doesn't mean they are richer than me. Life is about living....not stockpiling for a rainy day that may never come.

ValpoCory
06-27-2011, 03:05 PM
There are a lot of people living with credit card debt who have good credit scores (above 750). They never face any fees for late payments or anything. Having credit card debt does not prevent them from getting the best rates on car loans, home loans, etc. Their "punishment" is paying hundreds of dollars of interest every month.

Although they all want to be rid of it, if they are ok with that "punishment", and wish to still spend money, who am I to tell them otherwise.

Some guys I know marry into $50K of credit card. It takes a while to pay off, and they don't necessarily want to wait until their kids are 20 before experiencing vacations, so they live with the "punishment" of paying the interest while they work on improving spending habits. They don't go "cold turkey" as some on here demand.

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 03:08 PM
Lol, no one can demand a stranger to do anything.

Not taking luxury vacations isn't exactly putting life on hold either.

DisneyCrazyMomma
06-27-2011, 03:09 PM
It's unfortunate that people actually think that CC debt has to be part of life. IMO, CC debt is the absolute worst kind of debt you can have. The fees, outrageous interest rates and the changing terms that are hidden in fine print and legalese are what get so many people into trouble. I see CC debt as a millstone around one's neck and it is constantly pulling the debtor down.

A long time ago, I was told that the difference between a rich man and a poor man is "interest". The rich man collects it. The poor man pays it. Which do you (the collective "you", not the PP) want to be?

I get what you're saying, I really do. And it doesn't have to be a part of life. It's a choice, like many other things. I guess I worded my post poorly. I just meant that it's a choice many people have made and will continue to make. We have cc debt. I wish we didn't, but we do. Some of it is old and I wish we didn't have any of it. But we consolidated everything and the highest I pay for interest (on anything.. house, car, cc debt) is 4.9%. So it's not that bad. Yes, if I hadn't taken my vacation in 2010, I could have about $3k less debt. And if I wasn't going to take vacation this year, I could have it paid off about 6 mo sooner. But tomorrow is guaranteed to no one, and my son is only little once, This is the choice I'm making. It's not right for everyone, but it is right for me. :flower3:

DisneyCrazyMomma
06-27-2011, 03:12 PM
:thanks::lovestruc

EXACTLY!!!

Just because someone has more money than me doesn't mean they are richer than me. Life is about living....not stockpiling for a rainy day that may never come.

Amen!!!

There are a lot of people living with credit card debt who have good credit scores (above 750). They never face any fees for late payments or anything. Having credit card debt does not prevent them from getting the best rates on car loans, home loans, etc. Their "punishment" is paying hundreds of dollars of interest every month.


Not always the case. I have 2 cc accounts and the highest one is 3.9% fixed.

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 03:17 PM
To assume that someone who doesn't choose debt is somehow not "living" as well is a pretty big assumption.

DisneyCrazyMomma
06-27-2011, 03:19 PM
To assume that someone who doesn't choose debt is somehow not "living" as well is a pretty big assumption.

If that was directed at me, I didn't say that.

ValpoCory
06-27-2011, 03:20 PM
Amen!!!



Not always the case. I have 2 cc accounts and the highest one is 3.9% fixed.

Awesome. So your "punishment" is lower. But some pay more in interest, that's all I was saying.

If having credit card debt doesn't bother you or impede you in any way (best rates on car loans, home loans, etc.), then some will live decades with credit card debt and be perfectly happy. They know it's not ideal, but they live with it, slowly chipping away at it over many years, without hugely impacting their way of life.

DisneyCrazyMomma
06-27-2011, 03:22 PM
Awesome. So your "punishment" is lower. But some pay more in interest, that's all I was saying.

LOL! I know. They sure do. I just was making the point (not to you specifically) that some people do have credit card debt but have it managed fairly well. I know I SHOULDN'T go on vacation until I have it taken care of, but I also think I'm a big girl and know what I'm doing. :rotfl:

I'd also be the first one to advise someone against getting a credit card. They are evil. But it is what it is.

ValpoCory
06-27-2011, 03:26 PM
LOL! I know. They sure do. I just was making the point (not to you specifically) that some people do have credit card debt but have it managed fairly well. I know I SHOULDN'T go on vacation until I have it taken care of, but I also think I'm a big girl and know what I'm doing. :rotfl:

I'd also be the first one to advise someone against getting a credit card. They are evil. But it is what it is.

I couldn't agree more. Well said.

furb & dez
06-27-2011, 03:27 PM
This.....from a person who has a siggy that says "Our first trip to WDW! Had fun, a bit disappointed in the lack of things to keep us busy. Next trip: eh, 5 years perhaps? Don't understand the psychosis of wasting time trying to meet actors in fursuits or princess costumes, but, wev.."

According to your siggy, Disney isn't too premium at all. Sounds like you didn't get your moneys worth. Maybe Disney is too expensive?Not sure why you're jumping into an ad hominem attack (because let's face it, your post is an attempt to undermine credibility), but in response (other than a trip report-type post I've already made): I did have a wonderful time, and as clearly indicated, I'll probably return to WDW in 5 years or so.

That said, I'm not a Disney Fanboy; I would never trust or respect anyone who would willfully ignore bad show just because they feel so emotionally invested in a brand that they foam at the mouth and feel personally affronted when that brand is rightly criticized. That's just juvenile.

Just because I had a wonderful time, doesn't mean that Disney has every single aspect of their parks right (the correlating reverse statement could also be: "just because things weren't completely perfect, doesn't mean I didn't have a good time"). It would be ludicrous to look at WDW and say that nothing needs to be done to improve it. If that were the case, they wouldn't be frantically tearing apart FantasyLand in the Magic Kingdom. Look at Kevin Yee's posts on Miceage.com about "Declining By Degrees" if you want (many) further examples.

Disney doesn't get a free pass just because they are "Disney". Premium brands STAY premium by keeping their standards and cachet high and their customers happy. Brands that rest on their laurels fade and die. Brands that price themselves as premium while their product falls to a lower and lower standard each year fall off the list eventually as consumers realize the bang for the buck is disappearing.

Sorry for the derail, OP. It's interesting that the last few pages of this thread seem to be revolving around people feeling defensive about their spending habits. It's words on the Internet, people. We're not coming to your house to force you to change. Change is by choice! If you're okay with your choices, that's what matters.

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 03:32 PM
If that was directed at me, I didn't say that.

Minnesota did. On this silly phone I can't quote long quotes and it doesn't snip well either. Sorry for the confusion.

DisneyCrazyMomma
06-27-2011, 03:43 PM
Minnesota did. On this silly phone I can't quote long quotes and it doesn't snip well either. Sorry for the confusion.

Okay. Sorry. :blush: Thought it was me because I said that credit cards were a choice. Sorry. :flower3:

Disneyliscious
06-27-2011, 03:58 PM
Not sure why you're jumping into an ad hominem attack (because let's face it, your post is an attempt to undermine credibility), but in response (other than a trip report-type post I've already made): I did have a wonderful time, and as clearly indicated, I'll probably return to WDW in 5 years or so.

That said, I'm not a Disney Fanboy; I would never trust or respect anyone who would willfully ignore bad show just because they feel so emotionally invested in a brand that they foam at the mouth and feel personally affronted when that brand is rightly criticized. That's just juvenile.

Just because I had a wonderful time, doesn't mean that Disney has every single aspect of their parks right (the correlating reverse statement could also be: "just because things weren't completely perfect, doesn't mean I didn't have a good time"). It would be ludicrous to look at WDW and say that nothing needs to be done to improve it. If that were the case, they wouldn't be frantically tearing apart FantasyLand in the Magic Kingdom. Look at Kevin Yee's posts on Miceage.com about "Declining By Degrees" if you want (many) further examples.

Disney doesn't get a free pass just because they are "Disney". Premium brands STAY premium by keeping their standards and cachet high and their customers happy. Brands that rest on their laurels fade and die. Brands that price themselves as premium while their product falls to a lower and lower standard each year fall off the list eventually as consumers realize the bang for the buck is disappearing.

Sorry for the derail, OP. It's interesting that the last few pages of this thread seem to be revolving around people feeling defensive about their spending habits. It's words on the Internet, people. We're not coming to your house to force you to change. Change is by choice! If you're okay with your choices, that's what matters.

My comment was based more towards the comment you had quoted, but quotes of quotes don't show up when posting. I "get" what you are saying and I agree with you. The comment I made to you was not justified and uncalled for. I whole heartedly apologize to you for my mis-interpretation of the conversation and the comment I followed up with afterwards regarding your signature. I was wrong.

bettymae1121
06-27-2011, 04:02 PM
Yeah, I don't get that it's "okay" to have a mortgage, student loan(s) and one or two car payments, but not okay to have CC debt. DH and I have a modest mortgage and CC debt, and NO OTHER debt. No student loans and our cars are owned out-right. The CC debt is locked in at about 5% interest for the life of the debt.

To my mind, we are better off than someone with a hefty mortgage, a student loan (or two) and a car payment (or two), but many would consider us worse off, just because our debt is CC debt. The CC debt, btw, is a result of several large purchases that either could not be deferred until saved for, or we chose not to. It was not a result of living beyond on means on a monthly basis (eating out, movies, vacations, luxery items, etc.) but rather a mix of unexpected expenses and planned-for-one-time-only wants that we chose not to wait for (and I do it again, too). Could we have done it better? Eh, probably but the road we took doesn't lead to a dead end, either.

Anyway we just got back from a WDW trip that, in total, cost about $1600 (we used our tax return). Sure we could have used that to pay down the debt, but it only would have shaved off about 2 months off our CC repayment plan. And since the vacation resulted in a much wanted pregnancy (talk about your souvineers! :rotfl: ) it was money well spent!

CC debt can be a trap, it can be very expensive. But it can also be manageable and a useful tool when your temporary needs (and sometimes want, let's be honest) exceed your income. I don't recomend having CC debt as a way of life, just like I don't recommend having car payments as a way of life. But CC debt over a relatively short span of your life (5 to 10 years) doesn't have to be the end of the world either.

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 04:16 PM
Congrats on your souvenir. :) I've enjoyed mine.

You have the equity in those items, car and house, that others are working toward. So, you are right. In your situation car or cc makes no difference that I can see.

ccgirl
06-27-2011, 04:18 PM
Awesome. So your "punishment" is lower. But some pay more in interest, that's all I was saying.

If having credit card debt doesn't bother you or impede you in any way (best rates on car loans, home loans, etc.), then some will live decades with credit card debt and be perfectly happy. They know it's not ideal, but they live with it, slowly chipping away at it over many years, without hugely impacting their way of life.

LOL! I know. They sure do. I just was making the point (not to you specifically) that some people do have credit card debt but have it managed fairly well. I know I SHOULDN'T go on vacation until I have it taken care of, but I also think I'm a big girl and know what I'm doing. :rotfl:

I'd also be the first one to advise someone against getting a credit card. They are evil. But it is what it is.

I couldn't agree more. Well said.
Just wanted to agree with the above quotes. I have credit card debt and I'm okay with it. I pay the interest and happily go on my WDW vacations. My credit score is fine. I have no problem getting car loans etc.

Yeah, I don't get that it's "okay" to have a mortgage, student loan(s) and one or two car payments, but not okay to have CC debt. DH and I have a modest mortgage and CC debt, and NO OTHER debt. No student loans and our cars are owned out-right. The CC debt is locked in at about 5% interest for the life of the debt.

To my mind, we are better off than someone with a hefty mortgage, a student loan (or two) and a car payment (or two), but many would consider us worse off, just because our debt is CC debt. The CC debt, btw, is a result of several large purchases that either could not be deferred until saved for, or we chose not to. It was not a result of living beyond on means on a monthly basis (eating out, movies, vacations, luxery items, etc.) but rather a mix of unexpected expenses and planned-for-one-time-only wants that we chose not to wait for (and I do it again, too). Could we have done it better? Eh, probably but the road we took doesn't lead to a dead end, either.

Anyway we just got back from a WDW trip that, in total, cost about $1600 (we used our tax return). Sure we could have used that to pay down the debt, but it only would have shaved off about 2 months off our CC repayment plan. And since the vacation resulted in a much wanted pregnancy (talk about your souvineers! :rotfl: ) it was money well spent!

CC debt can be a trap, it can be very expensive. But it can also be manageable and a useful tool when your temporary needs (and sometimes want, let's be honest) exceed your income. I don't recomend having CC debt as a way of life, just like I don't recommend having car payments as a way of life. But CC debt over a relatively short span of your life (5 to 10 years) doesn't have to be the end of the world either.

Yes. That is my point exactly. The person that has a $300,000 mortgage on a house that is worth $200,000 and no other debt is no better off than the person with a $200,000 mortgage on a $300,000 house and $30,000 in credit card debt. They are all debts. And, unless it is at 0% interest we are all paying a "penalty" to someone. One could debate that no vacations should be taken because every $ spent on vacation could be spent paying off the mortgage just as it could a credit card.

I guess it all comes down to comfort level.:flower3:

crisi
06-27-2011, 04:28 PM
OP here. I was really curious about the opinions because I do see alot of the DIS community saying that they do not believing in having any debt and yet they take many trips. Maybe much of the community is wealthier or just very conscientious but this seems bizarre since we hear about job loss everyday and the nation is struggling with high consumer debt and bankruptcy and it seems odd to me that the population of DIS is so different from that of the rest of America.

DH and I work really hard and plan to take a vacation every year if possible even while paying back debt that was accumulated do to circumstances out of our control and helping family (my mom). Basically Disney is probably $1000 more (with pin code) then another vacation but means a lot more to the kids and DH and I. However, because it is "Disney" it just seems like so much more elaborate then a beach or sixflags type vacation.

I am grateful for the opinions and suggestions I have received here because it has helped me be more dedicated to saving, paying off debt and making decisions about what is most important.

Obviously, I agree finances are personal but we all know that family, friend and coworkers often have opinions about them even when they no very little details ;)

Thanks for the opinions and you all are welcome to continue arguing. :rotfl:

There are a lot of people here with many different circumstances - some of that is income related. Some of it is debt tolerance related. Some of that is "how much does Disney cost them" related. And some of it is "how much are their expenses in the rest of their life" related. Remember that someone driving down from Atlanta with two kids and owns a timeshare is very different than someone who has a family of six "Disney Adults" that needs to fly in from Seattle. That someone who has two professional incomes in a household is different than someone who has one blue collar income and one SAHP. That someone who inherited the house they live in from their parents in Missouri has a much smaller cost of living than someone who has a mortgage on a house in New Jersey.

I will always remember two women fondly from when I first joined this board. One had an armful of Disney trips in her signature. She took regular business trips to Orlando - her only expense was an Annual Pass, the rest of the trip was covered by her company. Single, no kids. The other went to Disney ever summer for over a month with her kids. They stayed at a KOA campground, shopped the local grocery stores, and packed in lunch every day. Looking only at signatures, without knowing the details, you get a very different picture of what was going on than what was actually going on. There are a lot of variables besides "income" and "debt."

As you said, its the details.

But the population of the DIS IS different than much of America. Much of America won't go to Disney once, much less multiple times - and if you aren't going to Disney, you aren't going to be on this board. And if you only go once, and didn't like it that much, we probably aren't hearing from you after your trip. So out of the gate, we've self selected for "middle class." And the population of the budget board is different than the population of the family board, or the community board, or the theme parks board. Here - in this corner of the DIS, the people who show up daily to talk tend to be those who are concerned with managing their budgets - they tend to be frugal and financially educated. That tends to be the case with a lot of internet boards that specialize in personal finance - the folks who frequent those boards have personal finance as a hobby - they don't tend to carry a lot of consumer debt (or if they do, they are on the finance board to get rid of it), and save money as a hobby.

sk!mom
06-27-2011, 04:48 PM
we hear about job loss everyday and the nation is struggling with high consumer debt and bankruptcy and it seems odd to me that the population of DIS is so different from that of the rest of America.


Really? It doesn't seem odd to me at all. This is a board for people who like to vacation at an expensive destination so it stands to reason that it would be made up of people who can afford to vacation.

Disneyliscious
06-27-2011, 04:52 PM
Yes. That is my point exactly. The person that has a $300,000 mortgage on a house that is worth $200,000 and no other debt is no better off than the person with a $200,000 mortgage on a $300,000 house and $30,000 in credit card debt. They are all debts. And, unless it is at 0% interest we are all paying a "penalty" to someone. One could debate that no vacations should be taken because every $ spent on vacation could be spent paying off the mortgage just as it could a credit card.

I guess it all comes down to comfort level.:flower3:

And there are a LOT of folks right now who paid $300,000 for a home thats now only worth $200,000. Imagine that...a hundred grand - gone. BUT, they made wise financial decisions and saved and scrimped and done without so they could be in a position to buy that $300,000 home....so I guess its "ok", since they saved and all. I'm not relating that comment to anyone on these boards as I don't know anyone personally....but you get my point. Even those who save and make wise decisions to save can easily......EASILY lose thousands or hundreds of thousands. Your money isn't guaranteed in a bank lol. The FDIC can change its mind at the drop of a dime. In fact, it just happened a few years ago. Many, many people lost everything they had in the bank. People are losing their rears on housing.

Money can be taken away just as easy as it can be earned. People with money in the bank really are no better off than me because, just like with life....its not guaranteed. There is SUCH a false sense of security in money. Why? Why does it rule the minds of so many great people?

I have seen comments before from people who get tired of their tax dollars going to feed or shelter those who wont get the skills needed to get better jobs. Yet they won't look at themselves and see they never got the skills needed to EAT. Thank God for farmers. A welfare recipient would be lost without tax dollars paid from those who work. Many of those who work would be lost if Farmers didn't grow foods and ship to the local supermarkets for those wealthy folks to buy. The whole system works in a cycle and one couldn't survive without the other (Im not talking about abusing the system, just the system in general).

I can't help but to think of the 22 year old Formula One racing heiress who bought the Spelling Mansion for an undisclosed amount. It was listed for 150 million so Im sure the price wasn't too far off. She also has a 90 million dollar home in her home country. She is 22. She hasn't put in years of work for Formula One. She has or will inherit it. Can you imagine?

Can you imagine even more what just 1 million dollars could do for those families sitting in the I-92 hotels in Florida (as an example) who have lost their homes? The place where over half of the kids at one school are homeless. It sickens me that people spend money like this woman has, knowing she has the power to change the world.

And in the end, its all about.......money. Its not about their education, their skills, their abilities, their diversities, the simple fact that they are freaking human beings....its money. Such a pity, indeed.

Disneyliscious
06-27-2011, 04:56 PM
Really? It doesn't seem odd to me at all. This is a board for people who like to vacation at an expensive destination so it stands to reason that it would be made up of people who can afford to vacation.

I totally agree!!! And having some debt doesn't mean they cant afford it!! Im glad we agree on something.

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 05:06 PM
Wtheck does the rich girl have to do with anything? I was born with more than some and less than others. That doesn't make me a betternir worse human being. And everyone could do something better with their money. We née very little to survive. We aren't talking of survival here. Farmers are important. But so are the people who pay the taxes into the subsidies. It's nice that you can grow food. Other people have other skills necessary for society also.

EKW
06-27-2011, 05:25 PM
Interesting how there seem to be those whose posts regularly raise dischord. :rolleyes1

nrpofp
06-27-2011, 05:34 PM
I've met many seniors who are unable to pay their bills, for meds and for needed care. They seriously wish they had chosen to save for their future and hate having to depend on their children or the the state.

There are seniors that are going to be dependent on the state even if they did save. A lot of people just don't make enough income.

FayeW
06-27-2011, 05:37 PM
OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

:worship::yay::thumbsup2:cheer2: BRAVO!

Never, in the decade I have been on these boards, have I read a post that I so heartily agreed with!

I have read posts from people who go on vacation, and then go bankrupt (or vice versa) and I have read posts from others who claim they would be ill, and/or never sleep at night if they owed even $500. I have read about people who wouldn't dream of taking a vacation if they owed any money, to anyone and others who have months and months of living expenses in an emergency fund, and their children's college funds fully funded.

Some people would be horrified at the idea of owing the $5000 in your scenario, while many others (myself included) would say "heck, if all I owed was $5K, I'd take TWO vacations!" :rotfl:

At the end of the day it doesn't matter. Life is all about balance. You have to plan for the future, but you also have to enjoy the life you live today. If your budget allows you to comfortably manage your debt and enjoy some splurges from time to time, including a vacation, well, I say,have a great time, and we'll see you when you get back.

walkdmc
06-27-2011, 05:38 PM
I think it's foolish. I'm not saying don't vacation, just don't go on a cruise to Greece, kwim? When DH and I were living paycheck to paycheck and had CC debt, we still took vacations but tried to spend less than a certain amount. The amount varied depending on our situation but it was always less than 1k. We went to Vegas once, for about $500 for a 3 night stay.

OP, if you check back..I meant my "foolish" comment in general. I know a family who had their electric turned off while they were at WDW, on vacation....seriously. We've all seen people make really bad financial decisions and I was referring to those extremes when I said it's "foolish".

luvsJack
06-27-2011, 05:39 PM
To assume that someone who doesn't choose debt is somehow not "living" as well is a pretty big assumption.

As is the assumption that someone with debt isn't being responsible or "should" do things your (general you) way.

The fact is that there are happy mediums in everything. And its all about what is most important to YOU.

If I can continue paying on my debt and still go to WDW with dd while she is still young enough to want to go with "just Mom and Dad", I will choose to GO everytime. If I can pay my bills AND take my granddaughters on their first trip to WDW, I will choose the trip EVERY time. Sure we could go camping and it would be cheap, but do we want to? no. We go to the beach for a least one long weekend in the summer, per day its almost as expensive as Disney. We go to WDW every 2-3 years and with two beautiful dgd who are already asking for "MICKEY MOUSE" every time they visit--that is not going to change any time soon.

My debt may go up and down at different times, but the ages of my children and grandchildren are only going UP.

nunzia
06-27-2011, 05:47 PM
I've met many seniors who are unable to pay their bills, for meds and for needed care. They seriously wish they had chosen to save for their future and hate having to depend on their children or the the state.

...again..b-a-l-a-n-c-e

Plus the OP never said the debt was CC...maybe it's a car loan or school loan...or something else. It really seems like folks hit extremes here quite often, but life is a balancing act and as I said in my earlier post, we did take trips we probably couldn't afford and my kids have great memories and are all Disney fans..would they have been scarred if we hadn't gone? Of course not..did we also do other family things that cost little or no money? Of course we did. It sounds like the OP has things under control and is not a willy nilly spender. And I think everyone also thinks people should have a good chunk of savings and not be a grasshopper living ONLY for today.
My perspective is of looking back..now I am making those memories with the grandkids..I also know too many who just lived dreaming for 'later' which never came.

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 06:16 PM
There are seniors that are going to be dependent on the state even if they did save. A lot of people just don't make enough income.

True. But that doesn't change the issue. If they saved more than spent frivolously then they would be less dependent.

Eta: we aren't ones to assume that it is anyone elses job to care for us or ours. Must be the strong appalachian heritage. We just cut in different areas due to different priorities.

GinnyEmma
06-27-2011, 06:18 PM
Lol, I am all for balance and have said so several times already. Go back and re read if you don't believe me, lol.

crisi
06-27-2011, 06:20 PM
...again..b-a-l-a-n-c-e

Plus the OP never said the debt was CC...maybe it's a car loan or school loan...or something else. It really seems like folks hit extremes here quite often, but life is a balancing act and as I said in my earlier post, we did take trips we probably couldn't afford and my kids have great memories and are all Disney fans..would they have been scarred if we hadn't gone? Of course not..did we also do other family things that cost little or no money? Of course we did. It sounds like the OP has things under control and is not a willy nilly spender. And I think everyone also thinks people should have a good chunk of savings and not be a grasshopper living ONLY for today.
My perspective is of looking back..now I am making those memories with the grandkids..I also know too many who just lived dreaming for 'later' which never came.

Actually, the OP did specific CC debt, but she never specified this was a real situation, just a scenario that we were supposed to answer with what WE would do.

But yeah, balance is important. So is knowing your own tolerance.

Boston Tea Party
06-27-2011, 06:29 PM
as is the assumption that someone with debt isn't being responsible or "should" do things your (general you) way.

The fact is that there are happy mediums in everything. And its all about what is most important to you.

If i can continue paying on my debt and still go to wdw with dd while she is still young enough to want to go with "just mom and dad", i will choose to go everytime. If i can pay my bills and take my granddaughters on their first trip to wdw, i will choose the trip every time. Sure we could go camping and it would be cheap, but do we want to? No. We go to the beach for a least one long weekend in the summer, per day its almost as expensive as disney. We go to wdw every 2-3 years and with two beautiful dgd who are already asking for "mickey mouse" every time they visit--that is not going to change any time soon.

My debt may go up and down at different times, but the ages of my children and grandchildren are only going up.

bravo!!!

Boston Tea Party
06-27-2011, 06:36 PM
My favorite professor from my undergrad career and his wife retired and moved into their dream retirement home. Three months later she had a massive stroke and died.

I will have a pension, we have a 401K. We have debt. My kids get older every day - one is leaving next year for college - and not a one of us has the promise of tomorrow. My father died when he was 48; I will be 43 soon. I am planning for the future, but I am LIVING for TODAY.

Whatever you want to do, God bless you. I only ask the same courtesy from you.

hsmamato2
06-27-2011, 07:17 PM
NO- and here is why-:teacher:
I'm not knocking anyone down here...and as a pp said,I'm not wealthy,or perfect..etc etc:confused3 But I spent some time today with my 11 yo child,who asked me the difference between a credit card and a debit card. (or bank account) since I wanted him to understand what a cc is,I explained things this way.
Say I have a cc- and on Jan. 1st,I buy a big screen tv with the card. Now, using that card,is like a loan from citibank,and it comes due in ONE MONTH. So,it's not my money I'm using,I'm borrowing from them,see?:teacher:
on Feb. 1st,the bill arrives and is due- however,I only have 600.00- so I pay them that. (so happy for them!) NOW I still owe them 400.00....and here we go with a finance charge....if it's 10%,I now owe 440.00....
(trying make simple explanation)
On Feb 29,I buy a surround sound system for 1000.00 to match my tv.
On March 1st, the bill is due,loan SHOULD be paid off. HOWEVER,I only have 800.00 this month- so,I owe 1440.00,and pay 800.00...which leaves a balance of 640.00....at 10% in. it is now 704.00....:teacher:
*question to child- am I using my own money here?
child says "NO!"
B/C it's not mine,it's a loan,and if I am borrowing more than I can pay off IN FULL in 30 days,then I HAVE NO EXTRA.doesn't matter how I allocate/stash more cash,I can't pay off my current loan.
:teacher:
Is it wise to do this? I think my 11 yo got the right answer really quickly.
Do people do it anyway? ALL the time!
and that's why I vote 'no' to the OP's question,I wouldn't.
From a SAHM parent,single income home,just ordinary working folks:thumbsup2

Planogirl
06-27-2011, 07:28 PM
Credit card debt isn't necessarily just from tv's and such things. It can also be from emergency repairs or medical bills. I know, I know... That's what emergency savings are for. Sometimes things happen and you can blow through that.

None of that is relevant though. The most important point IMO is that it's no one's business how a person spends their money or whether they have credit card debt or whatever. As long as they pay their bills and don't bother anyone else, they can choose to have any debt they wish.

SaraJayne
06-27-2011, 07:28 PM
Thousands in the bank or thousands in equity. Not much different. I think there is a balance to it all. Either way, you have a plan to take care of yourself in the future. I do agree that knowing how to survive is a good thing. :)

As far as the people who choose debt free and vacation, some of us are older and I figure that at least a few are like me and made dumb choices out of college and feel fervently because of the price we paid. Experience personal and professional has taught me to treasure people but to express it with common sense. Priorities are funny too. I take travel as a priority. I know others who love jewelry or electronics. My fun money all goes to travel, and books.

I agree balance is the key. :)

Disneyliscious
06-27-2011, 07:46 PM
NO- and here is why-:teacher:
I'm not knocking anyone down here...and as a pp said,I'm not wealthy,or perfect..etc etc:confused3 But I spent some time today with my 11 yo child,who asked me the difference between a credit card and a debit card. (or bank account) since I wanted him to understand what a cc is,I explained things this way.
Say I have a cc- and on Jan. 1st,I buy a big screen tv with the card. Now, using that card,is like a loan from citibank,and it comes due in ONE MONTH. So,it's not my money I'm using,I'm borrowing from them,see?:teacher:
on Feb. 1st,the bill arrives and is due- however,I only have 600.00- so I pay them that. (so happy for them!) NOW I still owe them 400.00....and here we go with a finance charge....if it's 10%,I now owe 440.00....
(trying make simple explanation)
On Feb 29,I buy a surround sound system for 1000.00 to match my tv.
On March 1st, the bill is due,loan SHOULD be paid off. HOWEVER,I only have 800.00 this month- so,I owe 1440.00,and pay 800.00...which leaves a balance of 640.00....at 10% in. it is now 704.00....:teacher:
*question to child- am I using my own money here?
child says "NO!"
B/C it's not mine,it's a loan,and if I am borrowing more than I can pay off IN FULL in 30 days,then I HAVE NO EXTRA.doesn't matter how I allocate/stash more cash,I can't pay off my current loan.
:teacher:
Is it wise to do this? I think my 11 yo got the right answer really quickly.
Do people do it anyway? ALL the time!
and that's why I vote 'no' to the OP's question,I wouldn't.
From a SAHM parent,single income home,just ordinary working folks:thumbsup2

I get what you are saying, but its not logical to think someone can pay a $600 a month payment on a TV that cost $1k. In that situation, I think most folks would save the $600 one month + the $800 the next month. Buy the TV with cash and have $400 to pay towards the stereo system. I know you are just using random figures to get your point across so Im not picking on you. Im just saying that most folks with credit card debt probably dont make $600 a month cc payments (or 60% of their cc balance). That does not mean they are "drowning".

Also, many places offer 12/18/24 months no interest. Ive seen furniture stores offer 4 years with no interest. Just because someone owed 5k on something like that doesn't mean they are making a bad decision if they go to Disney. If they can have their balance paid before the no interest deadline, then I don't see the problem.

Im still not seeing the difference in mortgage debt and cc debt. Its not like everyone buys air with credit cards. Many times items are purchased that can be sold in their own right - furniture, electronics, etc. In those cases there is an assumed "security" (to you) to pay off your cc balance just as there is security in your home with your mortgage company. You can tell me the line of "well furniture and electronics lose value once they are taken home", because while they do....I believe home values have dropped significantly over the past few years, leaving homeowners with lots of that purchased "air" I was referring to earlier.

Im glad others have skills that I don't. I'd be lost in an accountants office, a pharmacy, a law office, or a mechanic shop. I dont have those skills but I will need all of them at some point. But just because the lawyer may have no debt and can pay cash for a vacation doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to go because I do have debt.

People seem to forget that taking out a loan (cc, mortgage, whatever) is NOT a one sided deal. The banks or whoever making the loan has just as much responsibility (if not more) than those who are asking to take the loan. Banks make just as many bad decisions.

I have a family member who had a home that was paid for. She wanted to take out a mortgage. Wells Fargo did a "drive by" appraisal on a home built in 1936 and valued it at $110,000. She took out an $80,000 loan, within a year had to change jobs and couldn't afford the house payment. The house is being sold at public auction in less than 2 weeks and isn't worth $30,000. She owes over 100k right now. The electrical, plumbing, everything in that house is original from 1936 and its broken down beyond belief. Wells Fargo will lose their rear on this one. She didn't make a wise choice and took out a huge mortgage, however she would not have had that option if they would have done a proper appraisal. I'm glad Wells Fargo is eating this one. Maybe they will learn a lesson.

So high debt and bad choices are not always the sole decision of the person. Greedy banks cause more of this debt problem than you may think. :)

ceecee
06-27-2011, 07:49 PM
We don't carry credit card debt. The card gets paid off every month--period. If taking a vacation meant we carried a credit card balance--we'd stay home.

Agreed!

quentina
06-27-2011, 07:59 PM
OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

You read my mind :)

Disneyliscious
06-27-2011, 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by RabbitFood
We don't carry credit card debt. The card gets paid off every month--period. If taking a vacation meant we carried a credit card balance--we'd stay home.

For you folks who do this, Im just curious as to why you don't just save a "months worth of credit card debt" up and do away with your credit cards? If you can pay it off in one month, why do you even need them? If you can pay your balance every month then you can pay cash lol. Skip a month of purchases and viola! Now you have cash to pay for everything and no longer need that trusty old credit card......

...or do you? :confused3

Lumiere Lover
06-27-2011, 08:08 PM
I think you should take the trip. As long as your debt is under control and going down, and you pay for the trip in cash, you could enjoy it.

You never know how long you get to make the memories, and you should enjoy yourself while you can. You're not ignoring your previous financial obligations, so go and have a great time!!!

wisconsinmom
06-27-2011, 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by RabbitFood
We don't carry credit card debt. The card gets paid off every month--period. If taking a vacation meant we carried a credit card balance--we'd stay home.

For you folks who do this, Im just curious as to why you don't just save a "months worth of credit card debt" up and do away with your credit cards? If you can pay it off in one month, why do you even need them? If you can pay your balance every month then you can pay cash lol. Skip a month of purchases and viola! Now you have cash to pay for everything and no longer need that trusty old credit card......

...or do you? :confused3

Great question. I can answer for my own family:goodvibes We use a credit card that has no fees but earns rewards. I use a Disney Visa and my DH uses a Citibank card that he gets rewards with. So even though I have the cash to pay the bill I use a credit card for the rewards. There are also some bigger purchases like airplane tickets that I prefer to use a credit card for, no idea if it is true but I feel like I have more protection if I use a credit card.

I do use cash each week for groceries and for dining out. It really helps me stick to my budget!

I am fortunate to be in a situation where I can pay off my credit cards every month. Some of it is because I am careful with my purchases and some of it is because we have a bit of wiggle room in our budget.

bellarella
06-27-2011, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by RabbitFood
We don't carry credit card debt. The card gets paid off every month--period. If taking a vacation meant we carried a credit card balance--we'd stay home.

For you folks who do this, Im just curious as to why you don't just save a "months worth of credit card debt" up and do away with your credit cards? If you can pay it off in one month, why do you even need them? If you can pay your balance every month then you can pay cash lol. Skip a month of purchases and viola! Now you have cash to pay for everything and no longer need that trusty old credit card......

...or do you? :confused3

Because credit cards can be very useful tools.

People who pay their balances in full every month no more have "credit card debt" than people who pay their utilities in full every month have "utility debt." I never *need* to use my credit card. I have the money in the bank before I spend it. I don't need to skip a month of purchases to pay for everything in cash.

My number one reason is that it is much more convenient for me to pay one bill at the end of the month than watch money go out in drips and drabs all month. I have an easier time managing my money

My number two reason is that a credit card offers me security that a debit card cannot. If there is fraud, it is the credit card company's money that is gone, not mine. I do not have to wait even a second to have my money returned to me, because it never left my account.

Further nice perks:

My credit cards offer me rewards that outpace those that are attached to most debit cards.

I get an interest-free loan every month. Keeping my money in my bank earns me interest.

TinkPirateMom
06-27-2011, 08:22 PM
Great question. I can answer for my own family:goodvibes We use a credit card that has no fees but earns rewards. I use a Disney Visa and my DH uses a Citibank card that he gets rewards with. So even though I have the cash to pay the bill I use a credit card for the rewards. There are also some bigger purchases like airplane tickets that I prefer to use a credit card for, no idea if it is true but I feel like I have more protection if I use a credit card.

I do use cash each week for groceries and for dining out. It really helps me stick to my budget!

I am fortunate to be in a situation where I can pay off my credit cards every month. Some of it is because I am careful with my purchases and some of it is because we have a bit of wiggle room in our budget.

Just wanted to say that you are right about the airline tickets. It is better to use a credit card for this purchase. If the airline goes under before your trip you can dispute the the charge with the credit card company and get the refund much quicker than other routes.

Marionnette
06-27-2011, 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by RabbitFood
We don't carry credit card debt. The card gets paid off every month--period. If taking a vacation meant we carried a credit card balance--we'd stay home.

For you folks who do this, Im just curious as to why you don't just save a "months worth of credit card debt" up and do away with your credit cards? If you can pay it off in one month, why do you even need them? If you can pay your balance every month then you can pay cash lol. Skip a month of purchases and viola! Now you have cash to pay for everything and no longer need that trusty old credit card......

...or do you? :confused3
Convenience. Plain and simple.

We pay one bill instead of 10 or 15. All of our recurring bills that can go on a credit card get paid with a rewards credit card. We only need to keep track of one payment due date instead of many. We do the same with our business expenses. In some cases, we get a discount for signing up for the "easy pay" plan with automatic billing to our credit card. At the end of the year, we get a statement that breaks down our spending in various areas.

Of course, we could also set it up so that those automatic payments came directly from our bank account. But I have no desire to allow AT&T, Verizon, or any of the many other bills to have direct access to my checking account. Besides, I would never acrue all of those rewards points if I did. ;)

crashbb
06-27-2011, 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by RabbitFood
We don't carry credit card debt. The card gets paid off every month--period. If taking a vacation meant we carried a credit card balance--we'd stay home.

For you folks who do this, Im just curious as to why you don't just save a "months worth of credit card debt" up and do away with your credit cards? If you can pay it off in one month, why do you even need them? If you can pay your balance every month then you can pay cash lol. Skip a month of purchases and viola! Now you have cash to pay for everything and no longer need that trusty old credit card......

...or do you? :confused3

A few reasons:

1) My credit card gives me insurance - trip insurance, car rental insurance, and extra year on any warranty of anything I buy;

2) My credit card gives me cash back;

3) Having a credit card makes many purchases easier - online purchases, car rentals, hotels.

I put almost everything onto my credit card (and I do pay it off every month).

I'm in Canada, and our debit card system is not the same as in the US.

nowellsl
06-27-2011, 08:37 PM
Back to the OP's question. I did go on vacation when I had debt. I had a debt repayment plan and emergency savings. I paid cash for the trips. I'm a FL resident and it was pretty cheap to go to Disney back in the day :goodvibes

Would I do it now, I don't think so.... I have developed a real aversion to paying interest :rolleyes1 I'm really glad it doesn't bother other people, that interest is helping pay for my rewards ;)

wisconsinmom
06-27-2011, 08:43 PM
OP- I think you should go on your trip! It sounds like you have a reasonable plan for getting your debt paid off.

hsmamato2
06-27-2011, 08:44 PM
Credit card debt isn't necessarily just from tv's and such things. It can also be from emergency repairs or medical bills.

I agree;) and my point was this-it isn't our business if others choose to spend that way- but the basics are the point- having cc debt is having a loan you can't pay when it's due- extremely unwise.
planning an unnecessary trip when you have debt you can't pay is also unwise,it doesn't matter where it comes from.
Now,if I had some debt due to unexpected medical expenses(which I'd attempt to work thru my hospital and avoid the card for something like that) I MIGHT take a vacation before it got paid off...might.probably not though,as DH and I both hate debt and loans.
If I had a car payment (ACK!) I would likely plan a trip, but only if I could afford cash for my trip and to pay the car off double time.... I DO have a mortgage. And I go on trips. So that is debt.
but day to day cc bills that I can't pay? No. the principle is the same -I don't have the money to go on a trip. I would work HARD and pay it off first.
that,to me is budgeting well. I agree there are circumstances where people may spend from the heart, but again,not so wise.

Disneyliscious
06-27-2011, 08:59 PM
I can totally see the rewards and perks as being a reason to use a CC. I don't have a cc so I wasn't familiar with the bonuses you can get.

I wonder how it will affect bank decisions as more and more folks become conscious of interest and pay off their balances every month. If a bank isn't making any money off of cc holders eventually something will change. I can't see them continuing to loan people money and provide incentives for free.

My parents had this happen with Bank of America. They paid their balance off each month without paying interest. The got a notice that they could either close their account or pay an annual fee each year. They closed the account.

I think its very wise to pay your balances off each month and am surprised at how many people here can do that. I don't see this as a trend that banks will allow to go on for much longer though. Let's all hope I'm wrong.

gracie1
06-27-2011, 09:00 PM
As long as your able to make your payments and put food on the table and pay your bills, then go on vacation and enjoy your family. I have cc debt, $5500 and am paying on a cruise that I have booked for next year. And we will probably take a day trip at christmas. But you know what? My debt will get paid down. And this debt was not on something "fun" like a big screen tv (that was put on a cc with no interest for 3 years and paid off within that time frame!).
As long as you and your family are happy, then that is all that matters.

nowellsl
06-27-2011, 09:05 PM
I wonder how it will affect bank decisions as more and more folks become conscious of interest and pay off their balances every month. If a bank isn't making any money off of cc holders eventually something will change. I can't see them continuing to loan people money and provide incentives for free.

Oh, they already have started making changes. They've already lowered the rewards for most of mine. My very best rewards card went from 5% to 3% a couple of years ago, then I got a notice the other day that they were changing the rewards from a set 3% on gas, grocery and drug stores to "revolving categories" kindof stinks, but I have a couple of back ups :goodvibes I just have to remember which card gives perks for which categories!! Any card that starts charging a yearly fee will lose my business in a heartbeat!

mombrontrent
06-27-2011, 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by RabbitFood
We don't carry credit card debt. The card gets paid off every month--period. If taking a vacation meant we carried a credit card balance--we'd stay home.

For you folks who do this, Im just curious as to why you don't just save a "months worth of credit card debt" up and do away with your credit cards? If you can pay it off in one month, why do you even need them? If you can pay your balance every month then you can pay cash lol. Skip a month of purchases and viola! Now you have cash to pay for everything and no longer need that trusty old credit card......

...or do you? :confused3

The ONLY reason I use my credit card is for the rewards. I pay EVERYTHING possible on my card each month, from a coffee through the drive-through to bill payments. I then use the rerward points each month for free groceries. I get about $50 in free groceries every month just by using my credit card and then I pay off the complete balance every month.

Marionnette
06-27-2011, 09:30 PM
I can totally see the rewards and perks as being a reason to use a CC. I don't have a cc so I wasn't familiar with the bonuses you can get.

I wonder how it will affect bank decisions as more and more folks become conscious of interest and pay off their balances every month. If a bank isn't making any money off of cc holders eventually something will change. I can't see them continuing to loan people money and provide incentives for free.

My parents had this happen with Bank of America. They paid their balance off each month without paying interest. The got a notice that they could either close their account or pay an annual fee each year. They closed the account.

I think its very wise to pay your balances off each month and am surprised at how many people here can do that. I don't see this as a trend that banks will allow to go on for much longer though. Let's all hope I'm wrong.
Credit cards charge the merchant a fee for processing the charge. Chase and Citibank are making money off of every purchase I make even if I don't pay a penny in interest or penalty fees.

mombrontrent
06-27-2011, 09:35 PM
I can totally see the rewards and perks as being a reason to use a CC. I don't have a cc so I wasn't familiar with the bonuses you can get.

I wonder how it will affect bank decisions as more and more folks become conscious of interest and pay off their balances every month. If a bank isn't making any money off of cc holders eventually something will change. I can't see them continuing to loan people money and provide incentives for free.

My parents had this happen with Bank of America. They paid their balance off each month without paying interest. The got a notice that they could either close their account or pay an annual fee each year. They closed the account.

I think its very wise to pay your balances off each month and am surprised at how many people here can do that. I don't see this as a trend that banks will allow to go on for much longer though. Let's all hope I'm wrong.

Sure they will because they know most other people do carry a balance and they make money off of them. I've been getting my "free" groceries for 10 years now and they have never made a cent off me.

mombrontrent
06-27-2011, 09:39 PM
Credit cards charge the merchant a fee for processing the charge. Chase and Citibank are making money off of every purchase I make even if I don't pay a penny in interest or penalty fees.

Yes exactly, if I use my card to buy a $1.50 cent coffee it doesn't cost me any extra but the coffee shop is paying the CC company a "fee" of say 25 cents for each transaction so the CC company is still making money from me using my card.

mumom95
06-27-2011, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by RabbitFood
We don't carry credit card debt. The card gets paid off every month--period. If taking a vacation meant we carried a credit card balance--we'd stay home.

For you folks who do this, Im just curious as to why you don't just save a "months worth of credit card debt" up and do away with your credit cards? If you can pay it off in one month, why do you even need them? If you can pay your balance every month then you can pay cash lol. Skip a month of purchases and viola! Now you have cash to pay for everything and no longer need that trusty old credit card......

...or do you? :confused3

For the perks.

We leave for Hawaii in 13 days. Our first stop is for 3 days on Oahu. We are staying at the Hilton Hawaii Village for those 3 nights for free, thanks to our credit card (and other stays at Hilton Hotels). Plus, our two kids are flying for free from Ohio to Hawaii thanks again to our credit card (and other flights on Delta). It's a total savings of about $3000.00 just from using our credit cards and the hotel and airlines reward cards. Plus, just putting the vacation on our credit card and paying it off that month, we will earn enough hotel points for another night free at a Hilton hotel.

We don't pay a cent in interest, no yearly fees and I have a record of everything I spent if I need to look back over it for the budget.

LovableGluttons
06-27-2011, 11:21 PM
Hi!

I would not go on vacation if I carried debt.

I don't have credit cards or loans.

While I understand why people use credit cards for rewards, I don't have any big expenses every month that would likely ever amount to enough in rewards to make it worth it.

DH and I have very few monthly bills, just utilities, groceries, gas for our vehicles, things like that. I'm used to the simplicity and honestly don't want to have to keep track of more than that.

If you feel comfortable going on vacation and the state of your finances, then you should do it.

I've never vacationed with debt, I've never had debt. When I was a young adult and in college, I was extremely poor. I think that negative experience rule the financial decisions I make.

Because DH and I have lived this way for many years, we've been at the point that we can afford to pay cash for our vacations now.

My favorite book is "The Millionaire Next Door". It describes the lifestyle DH and I live. I don't feel we're better in any way, we're just different because of exposure to such a negative financial experience early in our lives. That experience made us determined never to put ourselves at risk again.

That is what works for us, but may not work for you.

I've wanted a house with a pool since I was a small child. Our house was framed when we bought it, so the permits were already obtained. I didn't want to stop the building long enough for the new permit to install the pool back then. Then again, the added cost to the amount of the house probably would have made me chicken out then as well. I actually met with a pool builder this afternoon and chickened out again. When I think about how many hours I have to work to have the money to pay for the pool, I get nauseous. I've been trying to build a pool for three years. The idea of losing the interest from our savings account that the $52,000 for the pool costs just freaks me out.

OP, if you feel comfortable doing it, do it. If I felt comfortable doing it, I would. I think it is actually a personal decision. :grouphug:

Colleen27
06-28-2011, 12:16 AM
I might, depending on the rest of the picture. Kids are only small for so long and the "great recession" travel bargains won't be around forever; I can totally understand wanting to take that trip now while paying off the debt slowly rather than paying the debt down faster and then spending hundreds of dollars more for the same experience next year ("hundreds of dollars" not being pulled out of mid-air; there is a $600 difference between rack rate for this year's WDW trip and what the same trip will cost in 2012).

I'm not a DR follower. I'm extremely debt adverse for myself but I also believe in balance and that is a very personal thing. Our circumstances and priorities allowed us to be debt free at a young age, but had we been faced with a different set of facts I don't believe I'd have always put debt reduction above vacationing with my family. Time is more precious than money to me; you can earn more money but you can never buy more time.

*Seanaci*
06-28-2011, 12:55 AM
I have credit card debt and I go on vacations. It would be one thing if I couldn't pay my credit card bills, but I can, and I do. No biggie.

Ditto this. We really shouldn't have gone...but hindsight is 20/20 and the trip now can't be taken back. So, we move along and await our next opportunity to go (with very little debt and a fair amount in savings).

OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

:thumbsup2

This seems to come up a lot. And I see all ends of the spectrums from the Dave Ramsey NO DEBT folks to the Disney even if they do not have a job :confused3

So my question is do you think it is ok or would you to Disney or any other vacation if you had any credit card debt.

Assuming:

Great retirement plans for both spouses
Some savings
Debt less then $5000 managable payments
Good rates on all debt and well within families means in secure positions with marketable skills and education.

Vacation would be paid in full from cash and would be less then amount to be fully debt free. Vacation is discounted and while it has lots of perks bugeting will limit finaicial impact.

So would you see this as okay or do you think it is foolish?

Given the bolded...I say go. You know where your family is at financially...regardless of how you pay for the trip...if you can afford it...and still pay your bills/debt...then just go and have a good time. :D

Not being certain when our debt would be paid off/down considerably, we opted to push our 2011 trip to 2012. Doing so, we will be gaining $600 a month starting in April of 2012 (building up savings, and paying off, or darn near off, the 1 credit card we still have). So, going in Dec of 2012 we'll be comfortable and confident to make the trip and know we'll be able to pay for the trip AND have enough spending/eating money. :D

indimom
06-28-2011, 06:36 AM
I'm just answering for myself, no judgement or opinion whatsoever in regard to other posters' financial plans/methods.

I could not take that trip right now. We are not taking any vacation this year (not even a staycation) for that very reason. We have debt. It's not even high-interest credit card debt, but we still are not going anywhere.

Up until the beginning of this year, we had only our mortgage (11 years left at 4.25%.) Since the winter, we have added a $6,000 car loan (we only managed to save 2/3 of the car price) at 2% interest. We also have been accumulating medical debt. It's an interest-free payment plan, but we haven't seen the end of the bill yet and there is no way of knowing when or if the treatments might come to an end.

Under those circumstances, I'm not comfortable spending on a vacation. We've been enjoying some of the low cost entertainment we can get at home and that is enough for now.

I will admit, if the medical situation continues for a long time (beyond another year or two) with no resolution, I could see us breaking the no-debt before vacation vow and taking a very low-budget trip. It would probably involve driving to my sister's house in Florida, buying groceries and enjoying the beach. About the lowest budget trip we could take and still feel like a "real" vacation. But, my plan at this point is to clear ALL of the debt first. We'll see.

ETA: On the subject of using credit cards and paying off monthly. We've been doing that for a few years. The Disney Rewards went a long way on our last trip. I put absolutely every bill I can on the card and pay off at the end of the month. I even had our monthly medical payment billed directly to the card. By the time we can get back there, we may have the tickets or hotel paid for. So, it's worth it in my opinion, as long as we watch the budget and make sure we don't 'charge' more than we can pay off each month.

OP, whatever you decide, just make sure YOU are comfortable with it. Only you really know your financial situation. If you are uncomfortable in any way, maybe you should think again.

GinnyEmma
06-28-2011, 07:07 AM
Indimom, I hope your medical stuff settles in a positive manner. Lol, I must admit I hate paying hospitals and doctors when I still feel like crap.

mombrontrent
06-28-2011, 07:20 AM
I might, depending on the rest of the picture. Kids are only small for so long and the "great recession" travel bargains won't be around forever; I can totally understand wanting to take that trip now while paying off the debt slowly rather than paying the debt down faster and then spending hundreds of dollars more for the same experience next year ("hundreds of dollars" not being pulled out of mid-air; there is a $600 difference between rack rate for this year's WDW trip and what the same trip will cost in 2012).
I'm not a DR follower. I'm extremely debt adverse for myself but I also believe in balance and that is a very personal thing. Our circumstances and priorities allowed us to be debt free at a young age, but had we been faced with a different set of facts I don't believe I'd have always put debt reduction above vacationing with my family. Time is more precious than money to me; you can earn more money but you can never buy more time.

Not necessarily, haven't you heard that America is just turning the corner into another recession that is supposed to be even worse this time:confused3
That is what makes savings and debt repayment even more important right now.

nunzia
06-28-2011, 08:27 AM
Actually, the OP did specific CC debt, but she never specified this was a real situation, just a scenario that we were supposed to answer with what WE would do.

But yeah, balance is important. So is knowing your own tolerance.

sorry..missed that one... I just thought she said "$5,000 in other debt"

marie1203
06-28-2011, 08:54 AM
I am just going to answer OP question. I think it really depends in other factors. Like how reliable and old are your cars? Any major repairs that might be coming, etc. The way I see it is if there is something that might be coming soon (like changing brakes, tires, etc) that will take the money available for that and put into the vacation fund then eventually you end up creating more debt. If this is the case then no, I wouldn't vacation. The other thing I would add up is interest and how much you are paying monthly in your cc? We do not have cc debt, but we do have a car payment and mortgage and we still vacation. We got a great deal on our car and we could trade it in now for the price we pay for it 3 years ago and is more than half way paid for. I see credit card debt a little different, because it is an unsecure debt. The other think I would not vacation without at least a six months emergency savings.

To be honest it always worries me when people ask if they should vacation with debt, because if you are really comfortable with you financial situation then there is not need to ask. Only you know you financial situation and only you know if this vacation is right for you.

manhattan
06-28-2011, 09:04 AM
OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

:lmao: Exactly!!

bpesch
06-28-2011, 09:12 AM
My policy has always been no vacation unless I can afford to pay for it before I go. I just don't understand going into debt to take a vacation. A vacation is a luxury and should be treated as such. Don't take it unless you can pay for it!

That being said, if I had a lot of credit card debt, no, no vacation.

janey99
06-28-2011, 09:19 AM
Given the OP's scenario, I would not go on the vacation. I would take the money earmarked for the vacation and pay the 5k debt.

Given the OP's description of the rest of her situation, I wonder why the debt is there at all - it is a pretty nominal amount in light of the fairly good personal/economic situation she describes, and I can't imagine that whatever interest is being gained on savings outweighs the likely interest rate on the debt, given the current investment environment. I would just pay it and be done with it.

To the poster who asks why people use credit cards - the convenience of not having to carry cash, ability to make long distance/internet purchases with buyer protection, and the rewards. We pay ours each month. In August, we are doing Disney with 1500$ worth of the vacation paid for by redeeming Disney dream dollars - YAY!

Jane

crisi
06-28-2011, 09:25 AM
sorry..missed that one... I just thought she said "$5,000 in other debt"

no problem - it can be hard to get everything, particularly as a thread moves into a lot of pages (I know I don't always manage). As we can see from all the posts jumping to the conclusion that this is a real scenario for the OP. It might be, I don't think it is. I think she is trying to get a feel for posters around here and their debt tolerance and why. I don't really think this is a "what should I do" question as much as it is a "what would you do" question.

There ARE a lot of people here who are managing "luxuries" like vacations and claiming to live debt free. And for someone who has never imagined that to be possible because "Americans carry debt" and everyone you know carries debt, showing up here (or, even more culture shock - a Dave Ramsey board) can be almost confusing.

ccgirl
06-28-2011, 09:32 AM
NO- and here is why-:teacher:
I'm not knocking anyone down here...and as a pp said,I'm not wealthy,or perfect..etc etc:confused3 But I spent some time today with my 11 yo child,who asked me the difference between a credit card and a debit card. (or bank account) since I wanted him to understand what a cc is,I explained things this way.
Say I have a cc- and on Jan. 1st,I buy a big screen tv with the card. Now, using that card,is like a loan from citibank,and it comes due in ONE MONTH. So,it's not my money I'm using,I'm borrowing from them,see?:teacher:
on Feb. 1st,the bill arrives and is due- however,I only have 600.00- so I pay them that. (so happy for them!) NOW I still owe them 400.00....and here we go with a finance charge....if it's 10%,I now owe 440.00....
(trying make simple explanation)
On Feb 29,I buy a surround sound system for 1000.00 to match my tv.
On March 1st, the bill is due,loan SHOULD be paid off. HOWEVER,I only have 800.00 this month- so,I owe 1440.00,and pay 800.00...which leaves a balance of 640.00....at 10% in. it is now 704.00....:teacher:
*question to child- am I using my own money here?
child says "NO!"
B/C it's not mine,it's a loan,and if I am borrowing more than I can pay off IN FULL in 30 days,then I HAVE NO EXTRA.doesn't matter how I allocate/stash more cash,I can't pay off my current loan.
:teacher:
Is it wise to do this? I think my 11 yo got the right answer really quickly.
Do people do it anyway? ALL the time!
and that's why I vote 'no' to the OP's question,I wouldn't.
From a SAHM parent,single income home,just ordinary working folks:thumbsup2

Bottom line, a credit card is the same thing as a mortgage. They are both debts. You are paying interest on both. I think, maybe, people are more comfortable with mortgage debt because they feel they never would have purchased a house if they had to pay cash for it.

My policy has always been no vacation unless I can afford to pay for it before I go. I just don't understand going into debt to take a vacation. A vacation is a luxury and should be treated as such. Don't take it unless you can pay for it!

That being said, if I had a lot of credit card debt, no, no vacation.

OP is not using credit to pay her vacation. She is paying cash for the vacation which may delay her paying off her cc debt. Same as all of those that vacation and do not put extra into their mortgage. Technically, they are prolonging the time it would take to pay off their mortgage.

hsmamato2
06-28-2011, 09:49 AM
I get what you are saying, but its not logical to think someone can pay a $600 a month payment on a TV that cost $1k. In that situation, I think most folks would save the $600 one month + the $800 the next month. Buy the TV with cash and have $400 to pay towards the stereo system.

No, my simplistic explanation is actually a far better situation than most people with cc debt are creating....like you say,most people WOULDN'T pay that 600.00 per month toward the debt,they'd pay the 60.00 minimum,etc.:scared1: which makes the debt grow even worse on a weekly basis.
Now, plenty of people get in upside down on a home,that's foolish too! But it doesn't change the fact that cc debt is an unsecured loan,and people usually add to the rolling balance monthly,rather than a one time purchase,etc.
Now,I heartily agree in balance,and I try to love the life I have,with what I have. Treasure the days,b/c they go so fast,etc.:love: But High priced vacation with out of control debt that grows monthly? My answer hasn't changed.
But I don't think my quality of life would be enhanced by creating extra stress and debt I don't need......

crisi
06-28-2011, 09:53 AM
Bottom line, a credit card is the same thing as a mortgage. They are both debts. You are paying interest on both. I think, maybe, people are more comfortable with mortgage debt because they feel they never would have purchased a house if they had to pay cash for it.



I have to disagree with you there (accounting and finance degree). The difference between secured debt and unsecured debt is fairly significant. Also, the difference between a fixed debt and a revolving debt is significant. Both from a finance standpoint and from a legal standpoint. Mortgage terms are - even if you have a late 90s "anything goes" mortgage - are much more controlled than credit card terms - which are NEVER written to your advantage.

Moreover, there is the impact of net worth. First as related to secure debt (I owe $100,000 on a house worth $250,000 - that means my house adds to my net worth by $150,000 - on the other hand I have a credit card bill on my desk for $2000, that simply subtracts $2000 from my net worth). But in terms of overall impact of liabilities on net worth. Few people have no mortgage (and own a home) and credit card debt. If you have a significant positive net worth and choose to carry credit card debt, that's a different story - but my guess is that most people who have a significant net worth don't want to pay interest, or if they do, they want it tax deductible - and that is usually an option at that point.

sk!mom
06-28-2011, 10:06 AM
Hi!

When I was a young adult and in college, I was extremely poor. I think that negative experience rule the financial decisions I make.

My favorite book is "The Millionaire Next Door". It describes the lifestyle DH and I live. I don't feel we're better in any way, we're just different because of exposure to such a negative financial experience early in our lives. That experience made us determined never to put ourselves at risk again.

That is what works for us, but may not work for you.

I've wanted a house with a pool since I was a small child. Our house was framed when we bought it, so the permits were already obtained. I didn't want to stop the building long enough for the new permit to install the pool back then. Then again, the added cost to the amount of the house probably would have made me chicken out then as well. I actually met with a pool builder this afternoon and chickened out again. When I think about how many hours I have to work to have the money to pay for the pool, I get nauseous. I've been trying to build a pool for three years. The idea of losing the interest from our savings account that the $52,000 for the pool costs just freaks me out.

OP, if you feel comfortable doing it, do it. If I felt comfortable doing it, I would. I think it is actually a personal decision. :grouphug:


I could have written this. DH and I grew up without any financial stability and then were very poor as we put our selves through college. It took years for us to gain the financial stabilty that we have now enjoyed for years and we cherish it. We have seen first hand how stressful debt is to us (not everyone- us).

Now we're dealing with retired parents who never planned to stop working and we don't want to be in that position in our own retirement.

No doubt our individual experiences color how we feel about and manage debt.

ccgirl
06-28-2011, 11:24 AM
I have to disagree with you there (accounting and finance degree). The difference between secured debt and unsecured debt is fairly significant. Also, the difference between a fixed debt and a revolving debt is significant. Both from a finance standpoint and from a legal standpoint. Mortgage terms are - even if you have a late 90s "anything goes" mortgage - are much more controlled than credit card terms - which are NEVER written to your advantage.

Moreover, there is the impact of net worth. First as related to secure debt (I owe $100,000 on a house worth $250,000 - that means my house adds to my net worth by $150,000 - on the other hand I have a credit card bill on my desk for $2000, that simply subtracts $2000 from my net worth). But in terms of overall impact of liabilities on net worth. Few people have no mortgage (and own a home) and credit card debt. If you have a significant positive net worth and choose to carry credit card debt, that's a different story - but my guess is that most people who have a significant net worth don't want to pay interest, or if they do, they want it tax deductible - and that is usually an option at that point.

Okay, I admit finance is not my strong point. Biology degree here. ;) So, perhaps that is why I just don't understand why those with a mortgage would tell someone with a 5K credit card balance that they could never go on a vacation with debt when they have debt themselves. I understand equity in a house can add to your net worth but it's still a debt; right? You are still paying interest and the longer you take to pay the loan the more interest you will pay; right? i wonder how many of those people that are saying they could never go on a vacation with cc debt are actually in a favorable position with their mortgage as you and I. By favorable, I mean have a good deal of equity in their house. I get the difference between secured and unsecured but, in simplistic terms, it's still a debt your are paying back with interest to someone; right?

GinnyEmma
06-28-2011, 11:29 AM
I was wondering the same. Equity is equity. If someone has a lot of equity what would it matter if the debt was in mortgage vs. Cc. As long as the interest was similar. Psychologist here.

My one concern about that would be that if by some craziness you are late with a payment the interest goes crazy.

mombrontrent
06-28-2011, 11:48 AM
i would never take a vacation with CC debt but I have a mortgage. However my house is worth about $350,000. I still owe $200,000 but if i sold the house tomarrow I could pay off that $200,000 and have appromimaety $150,000 in my pocket. Plus mu intrest rate on my mortgage rate is 3.8% . Most credit cards have a much higher intrest rate.

crisi
06-28-2011, 12:01 PM
Okay, I admit finance is not my strong point. Biology degree here. ;) So, perhaps that is why I just don't understand why those with a mortgage would tell someone with a 5K credit card balance that they could never go on a vacation with debt when they have debt themselves. I understand equity in a house can add to your net worth but it's still a debt; right? You are still paying interest and the longer you take to pay the loan the more interest you will pay; right? i wonder how many of those people that are saying they could never go on a vacation with cc debt are actually in a favorable position with their mortgage as you and I. By favorable, I mean have a good deal of equity in their house. I get the difference between secured and unsecured but, in simplistic terms, it's still a debt your are paying back with interest to someone; right?

My own take on it is that "I wouldn't go on vacation without a significantly positive net worth an where I couldn't pay for the vacation in liquid assets." I implied a couple of pages ago, that some people adhere to "good debt/bad debt" - My financial decisions are more along the lines of managing "net worth, liquid assets, and cash flow" - along with that all important balance concept. But its a more complicated view.

The more important thing is that your house is an asset. Not lately, but normally, your house is worth more than your mortgage on it. Your house, even with the mortgage on it - is supposed to be "worth something." Your credit card bill supports something that is worth....a couple hundred bucks at a garage sale? This gets to the net worth part of my more complicated view.

To Ginny's point - psychologically there is a HUGE difference between a mortgage and a credit card. Credit card use becomes an easy habit. A mortgage is structured - although people DID in the 90s, its hard to become a mortgage junkie.

LovableGluttons
06-28-2011, 12:08 PM
I could have written this. DH and I grew up without any financial stability and then were very poor as we put our selves through college. It took years for us to gain the financial stabilty that we have now enjoyed for years and we cherish it. We have seen first hand how stressful debt is to us (not everyone- us).

Now we're dealing with retired parents who never planned to stop working and we don't want to be in that position in our own retirement.

No doubt our individual experiences color how we feel about and manage debt.

:thumbsup2

DH and I do not have an extravagant lifestyle, at least we don't feel like we do. Seeing the people around us finance homes, cars, vacations, furniture, electronics, then have nothing left after making all the payments on all these things was unnerving.

I remember trying to plan for DH's military retirement and our move to Florida. We came to Florida 6 months before his retirement to house hunt, vacation, and job hunt. I think we spent two weeks total away for that.

When we returned, people asked how we could possibly afford to just go buy a house. The concept that we save the money first, then purchase something, so there is no need for loans, seems normal to us, but wasn't among our friends.

If I had to choose between a $52,000 car and $52,000 for a pool, I'd go for the pool! LOL I'd use it and enjoy it more.

I have family who have lots of gadgets and stuff, but are poor due to paying interest. $1300 a month of their mortgage payment on their new home this month is interest. $1300~:scared1:

GinnyEmma
06-28-2011, 12:55 PM
Crisi, thanks. I appreciate a good explanation. All I meant by psychologist is that I have no financial training and was one if the people who got in cc trouble after college. Dh luckily had a great deal of training. So while dating I got it flipped around. I admit that usually I just take the major points. Lol, it makes it easier to stay balanced.

We are close to paying off our house, because of a wicked 10 year loan. We gave up a lot of things because of it, but it did teach is that we need priorities.

marie1203
06-28-2011, 01:01 PM
Okay, I admit finance is not my strong point. Biology degree here. ;) So, perhaps that is why I just don't understand why those with a mortgage would tell someone with a 5K credit card balance that they could never go on a vacation with debt when they have debt themselves. I understand equity in a house can add to your net worth but it's still a debt; right? You are still paying interest and the longer you take to pay the loan the more interest you will pay; right? i wonder how many of those people that are saying they could never go on a vacation with cc debt are actually in a favorable position with their mortgage as you and I. By favorable, I mean have a good deal of equity in their house. I get the difference between secured and unsecured but, in simplistic terms, it's still a debt your are paying back with interest to someone; right?

To add to what Crisi said, most people have a mortgage or are renting. I really do not see much of a difference in that. Either way you need a roof over or head, so month after month you will either have to pay the rent or mortgage it is not something you can just cut. For some people might be cheaper to have a mortgage than renting. With rent you are not paying interest, but you are giving a security deposit. I see this more as a need just because rent doesn't appear on credit doesn't mean is not there or is not something you owe in the future.
Also most credit card debt is created but wants not needs. People want the latest ipod, tv, etc. To add to that people that usually carry cc debt also have mortgage. I guess as you said it will come down to priorities and a vacation IMO doesn't fall into that.

crisi
06-28-2011, 01:10 PM
Crisi, thanks. I appreciate a good explanation. All I meant by psychologist is that I have no financial training and was one if the people who got in cc trouble after college. Dh luckily had a great deal of training. So while dating I got it flipped around. I admit that usually I just take the major points. Lol, it makes it easier to stay balanced.

We are close to paying off our house, because of a wicked 10 year loan. We gave up a lot of things because of it, but it did teach is that we need priorities.

Yes, but the psychology behind finance is as important as the numbers - its a good thing to bring up. Especially when you start using words like "they are only young once" or "you never know what tomorrow will bring." Those don't tend to be justifications for getting a mortgage.

nrpofp
06-28-2011, 01:17 PM
Okay, I admit finance is not my strong point. Biology degree here. ;) So, perhaps that is why I just don't understand why those with a mortgage would tell someone with a 5K credit card balance that they could never go on a vacation with debt when they have debt themselves. I understand equity in a house can add to your net worth but it's still a debt; right? You are still paying interest and the longer you take to pay the loan the more interest you will pay; right? i wonder how many of those people that are saying they could never go on a vacation with cc debt are actually in a favorable position with their mortgage as you and I. By favorable, I mean have a good deal of equity in their house. I get the difference between secured and unsecured but, in simplistic terms, it's still a debt your are paying back with interest to someone; right?

My interest rate on my mortgage rate is 4%. I get a tax right off. I can sell my house and pay off the mortgage, and have a little left over. 5 years ago I could have had a lot left over, but we all know that story. Most of us do not make 300,000+ a year to pay cash for a house. We need a place to raise are families in a decent neighborhood with good schools. For most of us that requires going into debt. Most of us need a safe car to drive are families around in. No way am I driving my kids around in a 15 year old beater. Most of us have car payments. I will draw the line at credit card debt unless I get a 0% offer on something, and then it has to be a reasonable. I think the whole 0 debt thing is great, and easy to do if your income is high enough. For most middle class families its difficult to achieve.

ccgirl
06-28-2011, 01:23 PM
Crisi, thanks. I appreciate a good explanation. All I meant by psychologist is that I have no financial training and was one if the people who got in cc trouble after college. Dh luckily had a great deal of training. So while dating I got it flipped around. I admit that usually I just take the major points. Lol, it makes it easier to stay balanced.

We are close to paying off our house, because of a wicked 10 year loan. We gave up a lot of things because of it, but it did teach is that we need priorities.

Crisi, I too appreciate your explanation. Very thorough.
Bolded is the point I am trying to make. If those with a mortgage gave up their vacations they could pay off the mortgage quicker and, therefore, be out of debt quicker.

To add to what Crisi said, most people have a mortgage or are renting. I really do not see much of a difference in that. Either way you need a roof over or head, so month after month you will either have to pay the rent or mortgage it is not something you can just cut. For some people might be cheaper to have a mortgage than renting. With rent you are not paying interest, but you are giving a security deposit. I see this more as a need just because rent doesn't appear on credit doesn't mean is not there or is not something you owe in the future.
Also most credit card debt is created but wants not needs. People want the latest ipod, tv, etc. To add to that people that usually carry cc debt also have mortgage. I guess as you said it will come down to priorities and a vacation IMO doesn't fall into that.

I can see your point. While people need a roof over their head they don't need to assume a 200K mortgage. They don't need a 4 BR house with 1 child. The biggest difference I see btw mortgage and renting is that with a mortgage you are building your own equity and by renting you are building someone else's. Regardless of how you slice and dice it, mortgage is still a debt. That is the point I am trying to make.

ccgirl
06-28-2011, 01:31 PM
My interest rate on my mortgage rate is 4%. I get a tax right off. I can sell my house and pay off the mortgage, and have a little left over. 5 years ago I could have had a lot left over, but we all know that story. Most of us do not make 300,000+ a year to pay cash for a house. We need a place to raise are families in a decent neighborhood with good schools. For most of us that requires going into debt. Most of us need a safe car to drive are families around in. No way am I driving my kids around in a 15 year old beater. Most of us have car payments. I will draw the line at credit card debt unless I get a 0% offer on something, and then it has to be a reasonable. I think the whole 0 debt thing is great, and easy to do if your income is high enough. For most middle class families its difficult to achieve.

Selling the house isn't as easy as it used to be. You said it right there, "For most of us that requires going in to debt." BTW, my DH's car is 16 years old and in great shape. It is quite possible to pay cash for a reliable car. Skip the vacations and most people could probably buy a car with cash. In your example, I do not see the difference btw a car loan and a credit card. In most cases, if you sell you car you will not get enough to pay off the loan. I will completely agree that a zero debt is very difficult to achieve.

crisi
06-28-2011, 01:36 PM
Crisi, I too appreciate your explanation. Very thorough.
Bolded is the point I am trying to make. If those with a mortgage gave up their vacations they could pay off the mortgage quicker and, therefore, be out of debt quicker.


A lot of people on this board have given up their vacations to pay down their mortgage. Including myself. A LOT of the people here who are debt free are debt free - including mortgage.

(I have a mortgage now after having gotten rid of it years ago, but its a strange situation. And yes, I take vacations with my mortgage. My mortgage is about leverage - and my marriage - not about debt)

But it has to do with how you value debt. Some people find a mortgage to be comfortable, but credit card debt to be uncomfortable.

nunzia
06-28-2011, 01:37 PM
:thumbsup2

DH and I do not have an extravagant lifestyle, at least we don't feel like we do. Seeing the people around us finance homes, cars, vacations, furniture, electronics, then have nothing left after making all the payments on all these things was unnerving.

I remember trying to plan for DH's military retirement and our move to Florida. We came to Florida 6 months before his retirement to house hunt, vacation, and job hunt. I think we spent two weeks total away for that.

When we returned, people asked how we could possibly afford to just go buy a house. The concept that we save the money first, then purchase something, so there is no need for loans, seems normal to us, but wasn't among our friends.

If I had to choose between a $52,000 car and $52,000 for a pool, I'd go for the pool! LOL I'd use it and enjoy it more.

I have family who have lots of gadgets and stuff, but are poor due to paying interest. $1300 a month of their mortgage payment on their new home this month is interest. $1300~:scared1:

Right and with all the crazy wacky silly mortgages that were out there (and maybe still are) people should really be careful at this time considering equity in the net worth since that 'equity' is only on paper until they actually need it and then if they can sell to get it. It has been way too easy to get credit/2nd mortgatges on your house and then pay only interest..just nuts. I'd rather have CC debt than one of those deals, but then again, I'd never go for one of those deals. I have an aquaintance whose kids have totally milked them dry all these years (yes..bad to let them but seems like alot do) and the husband has his own landscaping business, hard hard labor and he is so beat up from it..and the wife shared the other day that they have basically nothing..will retire next year on about $1,500 a month (SS) and their house, which they owned forever..and bought for 33K now has $66K owed and in retirement they won't even be able to make the payments. Holy Moly....:sick:

crisi
06-28-2011, 02:00 PM
Right and with all the crazy wacky silly mortgages that were out there (and maybe still are) people should really be careful at this time considering equity in the net worth since that 'equity' is only on paper until they actually need it and then if they can sell to get it. It has been way too easy to get credit/2nd mortgatges on your house and then pay only interest..just nuts. I'd rather have CC debt than one of those deals, but then again, I'd never go for one of those deals. I have an aquaintance whose kids have totally milked them dry all these years (yes..bad to let them but seems like alot do) and the husband has his own landscaping business, hard hard labor and he is so beat up from it..and the wife shared the other day that they have basically nothing..will retire next year on about $1,500 a month (SS) and their house, which they owned forever..and bought for 33K now has $66K owed and in retirement they won't even be able to make the payments. Holy Moly....:sick:

That's why I prefer something a little more complicated than "credit card debt yes or no."

I wouldn't go on vacation if my net worth were less than zero - excluding retirement investments. I'd need history of positive cash flow averaged over several months. And I'd want sufficient liquid assets to pay for at least a months worth of expenses, PLUS the vacation. And that would be minimum - I still wouldn't be COMFORTABLE, but I might consider it. (ETA: I wouldn't consider it now that I have kids at home....but when I was single and it was just me....my comfort level with the edge was a lot higher).

More likely, I'd want a positive net worth above $10k (excluding 401k), positive cash flow over several months, and six months of expenses, PLUS the cost of the vacation (the positive net worth of over $10k could include the liquid assets).

So that means that if I'm carrying $50k in credit card debt, but I'm sitting on stocks with a value of $250k, and liquid assets that will cover six months of expenses - I don't care about the credit card debt. It also means that if my only debt is my $300k mortgage, on a house currently valued at $220k - I'm staying home.

And then there are circumstances where you say "I'm going anyway" - if I was broke and my kid was terminally ill, I'd go anyway if that was their desire.

ccgirl
06-28-2011, 02:07 PM
That's why I prefer something a little more complicated than "credit card debt yes or no."

I wouldn't go on vacation if my net worth were less than zero - excluding retirement investments. I'd need history of positive cash flow over several months. And I'd want sufficient liquid assets to pay for at least a months worth of expenses, PLUS the vacation. And that would be minimum - I still wouldn't be COMFORTABLE, but I might consider it.

More likely, I'd want a positive net worth above $10k (excluding 401k), positive cash flow over several months, and six months of expenses, PLUS the cost of the vacation (the positive net worth of over $10k could include the liquid assets).

So that means that if I'm carrying $50k in credit card debt, but I'm sitting on stocks with a value of $250k, and liquid assets that will cover six months of expenses - I don't care about the credit card debt. It also means that if my only debt is my $300k mortgage, on a house currently valued at $220k - I'm staying home.

And then there are circumstances where you say "I'm going anyway" - if I was broke and my kid was terminally ill, I'd go anyway if that was their desire.

Now this, I get. Turns out we are on the same page afterall. ;) I totally forgot to add in my stocks. They are for my retirement so I don't even consider them in anything. If you add up my stocks, 401K, and equity in my home I guess I am well off. But, I still have that pesky cc debt. :headache: Obviously, by my signature, we still go on vacation even with the credit card debt.

nrpofp
06-28-2011, 02:09 PM
Selling the house isn't as easy as it used to be. You said it right there, "For most of us that requires going in to debt." BTW, my DH's car is 16 years old and in great shape. It is quite possible to pay cash for a reliable car. Skip the vacations and most people could probably buy a car with cash. In your example, I do not see the difference btw a car loan and a credit card. In most cases, if you sell you car you will not get enough to pay off the loan. I will completely agree that a zero debt is very difficult to achieve.

My car loan is at 3%. Most cc are above 15%. Yes I could sell some stocks, or skip some vacations and pay cash for a car. I don't see the need to do that with interest rates being so low. With my mortagage being less than 10% of income. I have no urgency to pay that off either. We spend about 20,000+ a year on vactions and I am comfortable doing that. If I had cc debt at 15% I don't think I could justify it. I am perfectly comfortable doing that with my low interest mortgage and car loan. If I didn't own a home I would have to pay rent to someone, and it would still be a monthy expense. If interest rates soar than yeah I will pay cash for my next car. If someone takes a vacation and owes 20,000 on cc. I don't have a problem with it. Thats there choice and if their comfortable with it. I say have a great vacation. For me personally I could not do it.

GinnyEmma
06-28-2011, 02:10 PM
Lol, ccgirl, principal, equity, stocks and retirement aren't counted here, either.

crisi
06-28-2011, 02:12 PM
Now this, I get. Turns out we are on the same page afterall. ;) I totally forgot to add in my stocks. They are for my retirement so I don't even consider them in anything. If you add up my stocks, 401K, and equity in my home I guess I am well off. But, I still have that pesky cc debt. :headache: Obviously, by my signature, we still go on vacation even with the credit card debt.

Yep. But I wouldn't carry credit card debt with stocks available to sell. I do occasionally use my HELOC and leave my stocks intact (I'm about to get a new driveway and will put it on a credit card, use my HELOC for the credit card, and pay off the HELOC over a few months).

jm-mom
06-28-2011, 02:13 PM
I think debt comes in all shapes and sizes but some debt is unavoidable and other debt is. Yes, a mortgage is a debt but you have to have a place to live right? Unless you live on a good public transit line, the same goes for a car. Luckily both of those can be obtained at a fairly low interest rate. Credit card debt is another story. If you carry a balance on your credit card, you are living outside your means. Of course if that's the only way to buy food for your kids or something, you have no choice for the moment. Most people I know that have credit card debt are not using their card for absolute necessities. Personally I think if you are carrying credit card debt, geting that paid and finding a way to live within your means is your top financial priority.

I have a friend that takes the family on vacation every year regardless of their finances. They feel they work hard and deserve it. And yet they owe thousands on credit cards and I cringe when they say they HAVE to go on vacation. That's how they were raised and don't believe in anything different.

My husband and I have been poor and struggled, amassed large amounts of credit card debt so I do know that end of things. We made the choice to sacrifice and get it all cleaned up. It took years and our kids didn't get their Disney trips, or trips anywhere for that matter. Today we have a year's worth of expenses banked, all the cards paid off and take annual Disney trips all paid in cash. I am a stay at home mom and we are by no means rich. My husband makes a good salary but we live in a small home we bought cheap years ago. My point is that if anyone living on credit cards just made the sacrifices needed, life does end up very nicely. Disney will still be there in a year or two or five or whatever it takes and being responsible and sacrificing will mean more to your kids in the long run. I'm sorry to be preachy but I have known both sides of the fence and it's just so much nicer and more relaxed on this side!

ccgirl
06-28-2011, 02:22 PM
I think debt comes in all shapes and sizes but some debt is unavoidable and other debt is. Yes, a mortgage is a debt but you have to have a place to live right? Unless you live on a good public transit line, the same goes for a car. Luckily both of those can be obtained at a fairly low interest rate. Credit card debt is another story. If you carry a balance on your credit card, you are living outside your means. Of course if that's the only way to buy food for your kids or something, you have no choice for the moment. Most people I know that have credit card debt are not using their card for absolute necessities. Personally I think if you are carrying credit card debt, geting that paid and finding a way to live within your means is your top financial priority.

I have a friend that takes the family on vacation every year regardless of their finances. They feel they work hard and deserve it. And yet they owe thousands on credit cards and I cringe when they say they HAVE to go on vacation. That's how they were raised and don't believe in anything different.

My husband and I have been poor and struggled, amassed large amounts of credit card debt so I do know that end of things. We made the choice to sacrifice and get it all cleaned up. It took years and our kids didn't get their Disney trips, or trips anywhere for that matter. Today we have a year's worth of expenses banked, all the cards paid off and take annual Disney trips all paid in cash. I am a stay at home mom and we are by no means rich. My husband makes a good salary but we live in a small home we bought cheap years ago. My point is that if anyone living on credit cards just made the sacrifices needed, life does end up very nicely. Disney will still be there in a year or two or five or whatever it takes and being responsible and sacrificing will mean more to your kids in the long run. I'm sorry to be preachy but I have known both sides of the fence and it's just so much nicer and more relaxed on this side!

I agree with you on the mortage but still think a car loan is the same thing as a credit card. People could save their money and purchase a car that they can afford but they want a new car, with less miles etc and they don't have enough money so they take a loan out for it. That is like living outside of their means as well to me. That's the point I am trying to make, you say you are not trying to be "preachy" but life is better on "this side". The point is, if you waited a year, or two, or five and dind't take the WDW trips you could have purchased the car in cash and wouldn't have had to take a loan out for it.

The OP said she had 5K in credit card debt so unless your car loan is less than that, your debt is bigger yet you are saying she should wait to go until her cc is paid off but it is "okay" for you to go with your car loan. Of course, anything is okay it's your life but I am just really trying to understand why one is better than the other.

mwatson011
06-28-2011, 02:26 PM
This seems to come up a lot. And I see all ends of the spectrums from the Dave Ramsey NO DEBT folks to the Disney even if they do not have a job :confused3

So my question is do you think it is ok or would you to Disney or any other vacation if you had any credit card debt.

Assuming:

Great retirement plans for both spouses
Some savings
Debt less then $5000 managable payments
Good rates on all debt and well within families means in secure positions with marketable skills and education.

Vacation would be paid in full from cash and would be less then amount to be fully debt free. Vacation is discounted and while it has lots of perks bugeting will limit finaicial impact.

So would you see this as okay or do you think it is foolish?

Hands down, I would go.

My parents mis-managed their money horribly when I was growing up, but my grandparents would take us on day trips as "vacation". DH's parents divorced when he was young, and he never went on any vacations. My memories don't include my dad because he was always working when we took these trips. DH's gets sad everytime he thinks about never having vacations.

Memories last much longer than well-managed debt, IMHO. Yes, I have a car note. No, I will not go that route again. I have 24 months left at 1.9% interest, and my balance is less than $7k.

So, would I rather save a few bucks in interest (literally) and pay off the car, postponing the vacation I am going to take someday, while in the meantime, my children get older? No, the interest payments are worth the joy on my children's faces when they hug the princesses and ride the rollercoasters because they are finally tall enough. Prices keep going up, and I am guessing that it will cost me more than a 1.9% increase to vacation 2 years from now than it does today, so technically, if I had to choose, in this case, it would be cheaper for me to take the vacation now. However, I will probably take another vacation in 2 years, so that point is moot.

We are paying the vacation in cash, and I think that makes the difference here. If we had to charge the trip, we would wait and save. Since the OP has the cash for the trip, I say go for it, and have a blast!

disykat
06-28-2011, 02:51 PM
Of course, anything is okay it's your life but I am just really trying to understand why one is better than the other.

IMO, if people pointing out that cc generally have higher interest rates and most often carry debt on "wants" that have little resale value doesn't show you the difference, nothing will.

If "cc" stands for credit card, I'm guessing your love of them is pretty firmly entrenched and you're not eager to have their drawbacks pointed out!:rotfl:

Disneyliscious
06-28-2011, 02:55 PM
My portfolio consists of 7 Myotonic goats, followed by liquid assets of 4 holstein calves. I have a positive flow of goat kids at an interest rate of 3.9%. I have a revolving loan aka a garden and a 401-hay as well.

My Angus is worth 30k even though I only owe 20k on her with an interest rate of 0%, thus if I feed her rice that is dusted with diamond droppings I can get a fair share for her in about 25 years. My liquid assets, oops I mean milk from the ole Jersey, are worth a gazillion dollars.

I have a barn worth 300k that I only owe 150k on. The fact that I bought it for 400k and the market dropped bears no meaning on the end result that Im still 150k to the good (we'll just forget about that 100k loss due to the decline in the barn market over the last few years - it never happened).

Now, being that I have all of this and I am so worthy, I feel the need to share it on a discussion board with people I will never meet so they will never know if I have all of this or not. I may be rich, smart or I may just be pee'ing in the wind to make myself feel better in front of others who will never find out the difference.

(I was just wondering if it made me feel any better to type out all of my net worth (fictional or not) to strangers on the internet......it didn't. I'll just keep sticking to the fact that Im broke, but I still make Disney happen and manage to pay my bills)

ccgirl
06-28-2011, 02:58 PM
IMO, if people pointing out that cc generally have higher interest rates and most often carry debt on "wants" that have little resale value doesn't show you the difference, nothing will.

If "cc" stands for credit card, I'm guessing your love of them is pretty firmly entrenched and you're not eager to have their drawbacks pointed out!:rotfl:

Actually, my cc is 3.9% maybe that's why I can't really see the difference? Also, mine don't often carry "wants". I don't love cc's but I can see a purpose. To me, it serves the same purpose of a car loan (since with me, the interest rates are very similar). They both afford you to purchase something you did not have enough cash to use for the purchase. You pay this back over time, with interest. When you sell the car, you do not (usually) make money. It begins depreciating the moment it is driven off the lot. They are both loans, with interest, so have the same drawbacks; no? :rotfl2:

crisi
06-28-2011, 03:07 PM
My portfolio consists of 7 Myotonic goats, followed by liquid assets of 4 holstein calves. I have a positive flow of goat kids at an interest rate of 3.9%. I have a revolving loan aka a garden and a 401-hay as well.

My Angus is worth 30k even though I only owe 20k on her with an interest rate of 0%, thus if I feed her rice that is dusted with diamond droppings I can get a fair share for her in about 25 years. My liquid assets, oops I mean milk from the ole Jersey, are worth a gazillion dollars.

I have a barn worth 300k that I only owe 150k on. The fact that I bought it for 400k and the market dropped bears no meaning on the end result that Im still 150k to the good (we'll just forget about that 100k loss due to the decline in the barn market over the last few years - it never happened).

Now, being that I have all of this and I am so worthy, I feel the need to share it on a discussion board with people I will never meet so they will never know if I have all of this or not. I may be rich, smart or I may just be pee'ing in the wind to make myself feel better in front of others who will never find out the difference.

(I was just wondering if it made me feel any better to type out all of my net worth (fictional or not) to strangers on the internet......it didn't. I'll just keep sticking to the fact that Im broke, but I still make Disney happen and manage to pay my bills)

No one is requiring you to participate in the discussion - and there is an ignore feature.

Disneyliscious
06-28-2011, 03:10 PM
No one is requiring you to participate in the discussion - and there is an ignore feature.

No one is requiring you to comment on my post - and there is an ignore feature.

ctinct
06-28-2011, 03:14 PM
IMO, if people pointing out that cc generally have higher interest rates and most often carry debt on "wants" that have little resale value doesn't show you the difference, nothing will.

If "cc" stands for credit card, I'm guessing your love of them is pretty firmly entrenched and you're not eager to have their drawbacks pointed out!:rotfl:

I'm not the poster you directed this to, but since she has since posted and did not address her user name, I'm going to chime in wwith what I always assumed her user name means. CC= Cape Cod, maybe? That is her location.

Buckeye Princess
06-28-2011, 03:29 PM
I would not go with any sort of credit card debt. I personally feel that the only debt that is acceptable is a mortgage. I have no idea who Dave Ramesey is but we have no debt. (No credit card, mortgage, car, school loans, etc.) Budgeting for vacation only comes after we have put away 60% of our income into investment and savings accounts. We can put such a large percentage away at this point because we have paid everything off and chose to live below our means.

ccgirl
06-28-2011, 03:32 PM
I'm not the poster you directed this to, but since she has since posted and did not address her user name, I'm going to chime in wwith what I always assumed her user name means. CC= Cape Cod, maybe? That is her location.

Thank you. I was trying to figure out where they got the "cc" from but they were talking about my user name?? If so, it does, indeed, stand for Cape Cod. Wow...quite a far stretch to think it was credit card. :lmao:

ccgirl
06-28-2011, 03:32 PM
I would not go with any sort of credit card debt. I personally feel that the only debt that is acceptable is a mortgage. I have no idea who Dave Ramesey is but we have no debt. (No credit card, mortgage, car, school loans, etc.) Budgeting for vacation only comes after we have put away 60% of our income into investment and savings accounts. We can put such a large percentage away at this point because we have paid everything off and chose to live below our means.

Now this, I could understand. Congrats to you. What a great accomplishment!

GinnyEmma
06-28-2011, 03:44 PM
Disneylish, you seem to have huge issues with people who have made traditionally wise saving choices. No one has looked down on you for your farm Or choices. I have a farm too. Big whup. No $400000 barn though. Gee I must suck.

Disneyliscious
06-28-2011, 04:17 PM
Disneylish, you seem to have huge issues with people who have made traditionally wise saving choices. No one has looked down on you for your farm Or choices. I have a farm too. Big whup. No $400000 barn though. Gee I must suck.

I doubt I have ever seen a 400k barn. Are you familiar with sarcasm?

I don't knock people who make wise choices and do well. I admire them. What I do knock is posting the intimate details of how great you are on a discussion forum with people you will likely never meet.

Lets face it, not every darn one (those who say they do) of you pay your cc's in full every month and never vacation until you have no debt. Stop with the BS already.

Sure there are folks who live that way, but I don't think a newsletter was sent to all of them saying "join the DIS". One person commented that the DIS has more folks of higher earnings because its about Disney and vacations and *those* are the folks who can afford them. Again, its BS. I found the DIS on Google years ago while searching for info on my trip. I doubt I'm alone. People of all incomes can find ways to enjoy Disney whether its through a high paying job or a tax return on their 20k a year income or saving their change in a jar.

How much someones house is worth or how much they have in their 401-K does not in any way give someone budgeting advice. You can tell others how you got to that point, but sharing your personal dollar amount does nothing but stroke your own ego and give others a laugh. I mean really....do any of us care how much someone's house cost? Or what its worth now? Or how much they owe on it now? Or what interest rate its at? Your personal worth and finances do nothing to help my budget just as my personal worth and finances would do nothing to help yours. However, offering advice on things you did to save money or get a higher earning job would be relevant to assisting someone else in planning their future.

Well maybe it does. Because its a free form of entertainment sitting here watching people go back and forth about "I have this" "well I have THIS" "oh I forgot to add that in so now I have THIS".

ccgirl
06-28-2011, 04:24 PM
I doubt I have ever seen a 400k barn. Are you familiar with sarcasm?

I don't knock people who make wise choices and do well. I admire them. What I do knock is posting the intimate details of how great you are on a discussion forum with people you will likely never meet.

Lets face it, not every darn one (those who say they do) of you pay your cc's in full every month and never vacation until you have no debt. Stop with the BS already.

Sure there are folks who live that way, but I don't think a newsletter was sent to all of them saying "join the DIS". One person commented that the DIS has more folks of higher earnings because its about Disney and vacations and *those* are the folks who can afford them. Again, its BS. I found the DIS on Google years ago while searching for info on my trip. I doubt I'm alone. People of all incomes can find ways to enjoy Disney whether its through a high paying job or a tax return on their 20k a year income or saving their change in a jar.

How much someones house is worth or how much they have in their 401-K does not in any way give someone budgeting advice. You can tell others how you got to that point, but sharing your personal dollar amount does nothing but stroke your own ego and give others a laugh. I mean really....do any of us care how much someone's house cost? Or what its worth now? Or how much they owe on it now? Or what interest rate its at? Your personal worth and finances do nothing to help my budget just as my personal worth and finances would do nothing to help yours. However, offering advice on things you did to save money or get a higher earning job would be relevant to assisting someone else in planning their future.

Well maybe it does. Because its a free form of entertainment sitting here watching people go back and forth about "I have this" "well I have THIS" "oh I forgot to add that in so now I have THIS".

Funny how people can read things different. I didn't "see" anyone giving intimate details or rubbing anything in. I do believe posters are not lying when they say they have this paid off or that paid off. This is the Budget board and the posters on here tend to be very frugal with their budgets. I will admit, I am an exception to that, but I don't care. Nor do I think anyone has looked down on me for having the debt. My only "gripe" if you could call it that was posters saying they wouldn't go to WDW with 5K in credit card debt but would go with a car loan. To me, it is the same thing. I know to others it isn't but I'm not going to judge anyone. I think you may have taken this thread a bit too personally.

Disneyliscious
06-28-2011, 04:29 PM
Funny how people can read things different. I didn't "see" anyone giving intimate details or rubbing anything in. I do believe posters are not lying when they say they have this paid off or that paid off. This is the Budget board and the posters on here tend to be very frugal with their budgets. I will admit, I am an exception to that, but I don't care. Nor do I think anyone has looked down on me for having the debt. My only "gripe" if you could call it that was posters saying they wouldn't go to WDW with 5K in credit card debt but would go with a car loan. To me, it is the same thing. I know to others it isn't but I'm not going to judge anyone. I think you may have taken this thread a bit too personally.

I agree with you that debt is debt, no other way to look at it.

Also, I should clarify that my above post is my analogy of years of being on these boards and doesn't just pertain to this one thread.

Desnik
06-28-2011, 05:11 PM
My favorite professor from my undergrad career and his wife retired and moved into their dream retirement home. Three months later she had a massive stroke and died.

I will have a pension, we have a 401K. We have debt. My kids get older every day - one is leaving next year for college - and not a one of us has the promise of tomorrow. My father died when he was 48; I will be 43 soon. I am planning for the future, but I am LIVING for TODAY.

Whatever you want to do, God bless you. I only ask the same courtesy from you.

I can relate to this and agree with you!

nrpofp
06-28-2011, 06:23 PM
I doubt I have ever seen a 400k barn. Are you familiar with sarcasm?

I don't knock people who make wise choices and do well. I admire them. What I do knock is posting the intimate details of how great you are on a discussion forum with people you will likely never meet.

Lets face it, not every darn one (those who say they do) of you pay your cc's in full every month and never vacation until you have no debt. Stop with the BS already.

Sure there are folks who live that way, but I don't think a newsletter was sent to all of them saying "join the DIS". One person commented that the DIS has more folks of higher earnings because its about Disney and vacations and *those* are the folks who can afford them. Again, its BS. I found the DIS on Google years ago while searching for info on my trip. I doubt I'm alone. People of all incomes can find ways to enjoy Disney whether its through a high paying job or a tax return on their 20k a year income or saving their change in a jar.

How much someones house is worth or how much they have in their 401-K does not in any way give someone budgeting advice. You can tell others how you got to that point, but sharing your personal dollar amount does nothing but stroke your own ego and give others a laugh. I mean really....do any of us care how much someone's house cost? Or what its worth now? Or how much they owe on it now? Or what interest rate its at? Your personal worth and finances do nothing to help my budget just as my personal worth and finances would do nothing to help yours. However, offering advice on things you did to save money or get a higher earning job would be relevant to assisting someone else in planning their future.

Well maybe it does. Because its a free form of entertainment sitting here watching people go back and forth about "I have this" "well I have THIS" "oh I forgot to add that in so now I have THIS".

This is a budget board where people discuss well... budgets. There are many budget and financial boards on the web where people discuss the same thing. It's not inclusive to the dis boards. I don't believe in being judgemental. I will agree there a quite a few judgemental people on these boards. Then there are those that feel there way is the only way. I am interested in how others live financially. Not because I want advice from them. I just find it interesting. Maybe we all feel guilty about how much we spend at disney and need to justify it. :confused3

Planogirl
06-28-2011, 06:35 PM
I doubt I have ever seen a 400k barn. Are you familiar with sarcasm?

I don't knock people who make wise choices and do well. I admire them. What I do knock is posting the intimate details of how great you are on a discussion forum with people you will likely never meet.

Lets face it, not every darn one (those who say they do) of you pay your cc's in full every month and never vacation until you have no debt. Stop with the BS already.

Sure there are folks who live that way, but I don't think a newsletter was sent to all of them saying "join the DIS". One person commented that the DIS has more folks of higher earnings because its about Disney and vacations and *those* are the folks who can afford them. Again, its BS. I found the DIS on Google years ago while searching for info on my trip. I doubt I'm alone. People of all incomes can find ways to enjoy Disney whether its through a high paying job or a tax return on their 20k a year income or saving their change in a jar.

How much someones house is worth or how much they have in their 401-K does not in any way give someone budgeting advice. You can tell others how you got to that point, but sharing your personal dollar amount does nothing but stroke your own ego and give others a laugh. I mean really....do any of us care how much someone's house cost? Or what its worth now? Or how much they owe on it now? Or what interest rate its at? Your personal worth and finances do nothing to help my budget just as my personal worth and finances would do nothing to help yours. However, offering advice on things you did to save money or get a higher earning job would be relevant to assisting someone else in planning their future.

Well maybe it does. Because its a free form of entertainment sitting here watching people go back and forth about "I have this" "well I have THIS" "oh I forgot to add that in so now I have THIS".
I suspect that many of those who do have debt don't necessarily feel the need to share. On the DIS, you sometimes take a chance if you don't go with the mainstream and you can be flamed for far less.

Personally, I have some debt and take (cheap) vacations. I don't really care if others approve so I'll say that much but I won't go into detail. I just don't feel comfortable sharing all of the nitty gritty details about my finances except to occasionally share some facts that pertain to a poster's situation.

Disneyliscious
06-28-2011, 06:53 PM
I suspect that many of those who do have debt don't necessarily feel the need to share. On the DIS, you sometimes take a chance if you don't go with the mainstream and you can be flamed for far less.

Personally, I have some debt and take (cheap) vacations. I don't really care if others approve so I'll say that much but I won't go into detail. I just don't feel comfortable sharing all of the nitty gritty details about my finances except to occasionally share some facts that pertain to a poster's situation.

Well said :thumbsup2

disykat
06-28-2011, 07:35 PM
Thank you. I was trying to figure out where they got the "cc" from but they were talking about my user name?? If so, it does, indeed, stand for Cape Cod. Wow...quite a far stretch to think it was credit card. :lmao:

Oh come on - where's your sense of humor? Really?:confused: You keep saying how much you LOVE credit cards, I thought it was a natural punch line and was surprised no one else had caught it.

Back to serious discussion though, I'm trying to figure out where you've gotten a credit card with a 3.9%. I've received solicitations for that kind of thing, but on mine that interest rate is usually either only on a balance transfer or is for a short time period only. 3.9 is a SCREAMING deal for credit cards. I'm not exactly a credit card expert, but I'm pretty sure that rate is highly unusual.

GinnyEmma
06-28-2011, 08:28 PM
I suspect that many of those who do have debt don't necessarily feel the need to share. On the DIS, you sometimes take a chance if you don't go with the mainstream and you can be flamed for far less.

Personally, I have some debt and take (cheap) vacations. I don't really care if others approve so I'll say that much but I won't go into detail. I just don't feel comfortable sharing all of the nitty gritty details about my finances except to occasionally share some facts that pertain to a poster's situation.

Eh, we travel cheap. And I don't have a lot of stuff. We don't buy a bunch of stuff. I'd rather memories than things. What we have is because my sweetie is smart and Scottish, as he says. Saying one has a retirement plan isn't bragging. Anymore than saying one takes trips regardless. It is just a statement to give context.

ruley3
06-28-2011, 08:44 PM
:thumbsup2 I say go!!!!!
My thoughts are live and enjoy your life with vacation if you are doing all you can to provide for your family and have steady income! I sat beside my Aunt in her hospital bed at age 40 2days before she died of cancer and her regrets were not taking her 4yr and 9yr old on trips and spending more time together away from day to day. She and my Uncle were hard workers and were debt free and none of that made a difference in that moment but her tears. I decided on that day 11 years ago that I would make sure I devoted time to take the kids annually and have FAMILY adventures. Because of that commitment I even took my mom with us on her first trip to Disney World one year and on 2 special Disney Cruises that I payed for even though it could have been used towards my debt. Yes I have credit card debt and a mortgage and student loan however I would NEVER give back the memories I was able to share with my Mom before she suddenly died at age 54. I will continue to work full time and pay on my debts but I will continue to take one week a year to make magical memories for my family. When I close my eyes I can feel my mom hugging me and crying that night at Magic Kingdom during the fireworks.... THAT IS PRICELESS!!!!!!! And my 4yr old DD coloring pictures with Belle on the Mickey Mouse boat is still huge topic of conversation that has put stars in her eyes even though it has been 7 months ago.....:love:

Frannie115
06-28-2011, 09:08 PM
:thumbsup2
My thoughts are live and enjoy your life with vacation if you are doing all you can to provide for your family and have steady income!

Yes I have credit card debt and a mortgage and student loan however I would NEVER give back the memories I was able to share with my Mom before she suddenly died at age 54. I will continue to work full time and pay on my debts but I will continue to take one week a year to make magical memories for my family. When I close my eyes I can feel my mom hugging me and crying that night at Magic Kingdom during the fireworks.... THAT IS PRICELESS!!!!!!! And my 4yr old DD coloring pictures with Belle on the Mickey Mouse boat is still huge topic of conversation that has put stars in her eyes even though it has been 7 months ago.....:love:

:thumbsup2 I'm with you on this. We have created many memories traveling with our children. Besides the fun and memories, they have seen different cultures and learned a lot.

moepanz
06-28-2011, 09:37 PM
I say go!! Recently in my family I have learned one thing is that we are all not going to be here forever. My sister in law who was one of the most "financially responsible" people I have ever met (they never even had cable TV) the kids never had video games nothing extra. She lived her whole life watching every dime never really took vacations if they did they drove never flew etc. She collapsed at 51 with a massive brain anurisum (sp?) she survived but all that money she saved by "not living life" well it is not doing much for her now. She can't walk on her own and can barely speak it is horrible, She tells us all the time now go live life take our little ones everywhere we can. My mom died of cancer last year at 64 and literally got off her death bed to go to WDW with her grand kids one last time, she died less than a month after we returned. Yes we have credit card debt and yes I will be booking my trip to WDW in 2012 because my kids are only going to be kids for a little while longer. My cc will get paid off, we put money into the college funds every month and I can live with that. I know my kids will remember the Disney trips not how much money we are able to save by not going.

nrpofp
06-28-2011, 09:41 PM
Oh come on - where's your sense of humor? Really?:confused: You keep saying how much you LOVE credit cards, I thought it was a natural punch line and was surprised no one else had caught it.

Back to serious discussion though, I'm trying to figure out where you've gotten a credit card with a 3.9%. I've received solicitations for that kind of thing, but on mine that interest rate is usually either only on a balance transfer or is for a short time period only. 3.9 is a SCREAMING deal for credit cards. I'm not exactly a credit card expert, but I'm pretty sure that rate is highly unusual.

I have a Discover card thats at 0% until next summer. Credit card companies always have promotional offers.

GinnyEmma
06-28-2011, 09:46 PM
Disykat, I thought it was funny. Not in a mean way but a cute way. :)

Colleen27
06-28-2011, 10:42 PM
My own take on it is that "I wouldn't go on vacation without a significantly positive net worth an where I couldn't pay for the vacation in liquid assets." I implied a couple of pages ago, that some people adhere to "good debt/bad debt" - My financial decisions are more along the lines of managing "net worth, liquid assets, and cash flow" - along with that all important balance concept. But its a more complicated view.

The more important thing is that your house is an asset. Not lately, but normally, your house is worth more than your mortgage on it. Your house, even with the mortgage on it - is supposed to be "worth something." Your credit card bill supports something that is worth....a couple hundred bucks at a garage sale? This gets to the net worth part of my more complicated view.

I'm curious, would you then refrain from vacationing if like so many people these days you were underwater on the house, even though the payment is fixed and manageable? Like hypothetically - 2007, you have a good LTV ratio so vacation is okay. 2008, housing market tanks, the house loses 40% of its value, and now vacation isn't okay, even though nothing about your income or expenses has changed?

grafxgirl
06-28-2011, 10:48 PM
We have debt, but do not use credit cards to regularly finance our expenses, and are steadily paying down the debt we have. For the most part it is cash only these days, and do not have trouble paying any of our monthly expenses. We still go on vacations, but we make sure we budget them in so we are not racking up extra debt. We just spent 5 days at the beach and will be doing a week in Disney later this year.

marie1203
06-29-2011, 12:59 AM
Crisi, I too appreciate your explanation. Very thorough.
Bolded is the point I am trying to make. If those with a mortgage gave up their vacations they could pay off the mortgage quicker and, therefore, be out of debt quicker.



I can see your point. While people need a roof over their head they don't need to assume a 200K mortgage. They don't need a 4 BR house with 1 child. The biggest difference I see btw mortgage and renting is that with a mortgage you are building your own equity and by renting you are building someone else's. Regardless of how you slice and dice it, mortgage is still a debt. That is the point I am trying to make.

I guess then you will consider the same thing either debt? I find it there is a huge difference between secure and unsecure debt, it seem most of the disers agree and the financial world also sees it different. I guess it comes down to will you consider $100,000 of cc debt the same as a $100,000 mortgage?

Bungle
06-29-2011, 02:07 AM
This seems to come up a lot. And I see all ends of the spectrums from the Dave Ramsey NO DEBT folks to the Disney even if they do not have a job :confused3

So my question is do you think it is ok or would you to Disney or any other vacation if you had any credit card debt.

Assuming:

Great retirement plans for both spouses
Some savings
Debt less then $5000 managable payments
Good rates on all debt and well within families means in secure positions with marketable skills and education.

Vacation would be paid in full from cash and would be less then amount to be fully debt free. Vacation is discounted and while it has lots of perks bugeting will limit finaicial impact.

So would you see this as okay or do you think it is foolish?

I haven't read all 14 pages but I'm sure you've gotten a mix of advice. Honestly I would go. While we do live without debt now we did have some at one point and I went on vacation then too. As long as you make sure you can afford it and it will not impact your ability to continue making payments like you are currently I would say go for it. Paying off debt can be a long hard road and sometimes a little vacation can give you the steam to finish what you started.

indimom
06-29-2011, 06:13 AM
Indimom, I hope your medical stuff settles in a positive manner. Lol, I must admit I hate paying hospitals and doctors when I still feel like crap.

:thumbsup2 Isn't that the truth.... Usually the problem is long solved by the time I get the bill, so it doesn't sting as much to pay it. We've never experienced a 'long-term' medical issue before, so it's kinda freaking me out right now. (Which makes me much more conservative when spending questions come up on the Board. :lmao:)
We started a new treatment series on Monday that will end in December. It has a pretty good success rate, so hopefully this will take care of the problem. :goodvibes

DisneyCrazyMomma
06-29-2011, 08:34 AM
I have a Discover card thats at 0% until next summer. Credit card companies always have promotional offers.

They do...but sometimes it's not just promotional. I have a card that is 3.9% fixed forever and also one that was a balance transfer that is 2.9% for the life of the balance... which is all that card is used for. There are good deals....

ccgirl
06-29-2011, 08:38 AM
Oh come on - where's your sense of humor? Really?:confused: You keep saying how much you LOVE credit cards, I thought it was a natural punch line and was surprised no one else had caught it.

Back to serious discussion though, I'm trying to figure out where you've gotten a credit card with a 3.9%. I've received solicitations for that kind of thing, but on mine that interest rate is usually either only on a balance transfer or is for a short time period only. 3.9 is a SCREAMING deal for credit cards. I'm not exactly a credit card expert, but I'm pretty sure that rate is highly unusual.

Sorry, normally I get jokes. Just missed this one. BTW, I never said I LOVE credit cards. I just can see a purpose for them. Some credit card companies will lower the interest rate if you call and ask. Especially if you are never late, like I am, and carry a balance. I have a few 0% balance transfer cards as well.

:thumbsup2 I say go!!!!!
My thoughts are live and enjoy your life with vacation if you are doing all you can to provide for your family and have steady income! I sat beside my Aunt in her hospital bed at age 40 2days before she died of cancer and her regrets were not taking her 4yr and 9yr old on trips and spending more time together away from day to day. She and my Uncle were hard workers and were debt free and none of that made a difference in that moment but her tears. I decided on that day 11 years ago that I would make sure I devoted time to take the kids annually and have FAMILY adventures. Because of that commitment I even took my mom with us on her first trip to Disney World one year and on 2 special Disney Cruises that I payed for even though it could have been used towards my debt. Yes I have credit card debt and a mortgage and student loan however I would NEVER give back the memories I was able to share with my Mom before she suddenly died at age 54. I will continue to work full time and pay on my debts but I will continue to take one week a year to make magical memories for my family. When I close my eyes I can feel my mom hugging me and crying that night at Magic Kingdom during the fireworks.... THAT IS PRICELESS!!!!!!! And my 4yr old DD coloring pictures with Belle on the Mickey Mouse boat is still huge topic of conversation that has put stars in her eyes even though it has been 7 months ago.....:love:

Aww...this post put tears in my eyes. So sorry for your losses but very happy you were able to make happy memories. This is how I choose to live too. Another poster put it so well earlier in this thread....Plan for the future but live for today. I think that's my new motto.

I guess then you will consider the same thing either debt? I find it there is a huge difference between secure and unsecure debt, it seem most of the disers agree and the financial world also sees it different. I guess it comes down to will you consider $100,000 of cc debt the same as a $100,000 mortgage?

Perhaps I am over simplifying??? In your scenario above I guess it would depend on a few things. First, which one has the lowest interest rate? Second, how much is the house worth relative to the mortgage? If the house isn't worth the $100,000 mortgage I don't see it any better than the credit card debt. When it comes down to it - debt is debt. If a person has a mortgage they are not debt free.

SnowWhite607
06-29-2011, 09:04 AM
:thumbsup2 I say go!!!!!
My thoughts are live and enjoy your life with vacation if you are doing all you can to provide for your family and have steady income! I sat beside my Aunt in her hospital bed at age 40 2days before she died of cancer and her regrets were not taking her 4yr and 9yr old on trips and spending more time together away from day to day. She and my Uncle were hard workers and were debt free and none of that made a difference in that moment but her tears. I decided on that day 11 years ago that I would make sure I devoted time to take the kids annually and have FAMILY adventures. Because of that commitment I even took my mom with us on her first trip to Disney World one year and on 2 special Disney Cruises that I payed for even though it could have been used towards my debt. Yes I have credit card debt and a mortgage and student loan however I would NEVER give back the memories I was able to share with my Mom before she suddenly died at age 54. I will continue to work full time and pay on my debts but I will continue to take one week a year to make magical memories for my family. When I close my eyes I can feel my mom hugging me and crying that night at Magic Kingdom during the fireworks.... THAT IS PRICELESS!!!!!!! And my 4yr old DD coloring pictures with Belle on the Mickey Mouse boat is still huge topic of conversation that has put stars in her eyes even though it has been 7 months ago.....:love:

Couldnt have said it better myself!:thumbsup2

amberdburke
06-29-2011, 09:19 AM
We do have debt. We have a lot of credit card debt and I absolutely hate it. We are working hard to pay it off. I scrimp and save all year to afford our one week of vacation. We usually spend less than $800 for our vacation. This year we are going to Disney and are spending quite a bit of money. However, we are paying cash for all of it. I'm not going to let debt keep me from vacationing, but I won't go into further debt to go on vacation. If we can't afford to pay for it in cash, we won't go.

The Pluto People
06-29-2011, 09:25 AM
Originally Posted by RabbitFood
We don't carry credit card debt. The card gets paid off every month--period. If taking a vacation meant we carried a credit card balance--we'd stay home.

For you folks who do this, Im just curious as to why you don't just save a "months worth of credit card debt" up and do away with your credit cards? If you can pay it off in one month, why do you even need them? If you can pay your balance every month then you can pay cash lol. Skip a month of purchases and viola! Now you have cash to pay for everything and no longer need that trusty old credit card......

...or do you? :confused3

We pay our Starwood AmEx in total every month. In March we used the points from that card to stay for FREE at the Dolphin!!:banana:

marie1203
06-29-2011, 10:42 AM
Perhaps I am over simplifying??? In your scenario above I guess it would depend on a few things. First, which one has the lowest interest rate? Second, how much is the house worth relative to the mortgage? If the house isn't worth the $100,000 mortgage I don't see it any better than the credit card debt. When it comes down to it - debt is debt. If a person has a mortgage they are not debt free.

Even if both had the same rate there is nothing backing up cc debt. Even if the house is worth $100,000 they can sell the house tomorrow and have 0 debt. Even if they had to pay for the realtor they might end up with $10,000 in debt, but with cc they do not have the means to pay the $100,000 even if they sold everything they bought.
Creditors will look at such high amount of cc and run the other way. If someone has a mortgage they will go ahead an allow more credit. Having a lot of cc will reduce your credit score which a mortgage won't do. Yes I agree if you have a mortgage you are in debt, but I do think there is big difference between secure and unsecure debt.

perfectparanoia
06-29-2011, 12:44 PM
I don't have credit card debt. I have a line of credit with a low interest rate. When we planned our last trip, it was payable in cash out of money we had on hand.

But life has handed us several expenses we didn't know about in the last few months and now we are a little in the red.

I am not cancelling the trip. We are tightening spending in other areas and will be out of it in a couple of months.

Mind you, if this were more than a temporary setback and we had huge debts that we were barely keeping up with? I wouldn't go to Disney. Even though it is a big thing for me (my only hobby is keeping up with all things Disney World), it is not worth the our families future for a trip.

babyrich
06-29-2011, 01:18 PM
go on vacation. You are not creating more debt since you say you will use cash.

We all manage our finances in our own way. If you are comfortable carrying this debt and comfortable knowing it can be paid, than why not enjoy a vacation.

nowellsl
06-29-2011, 02:05 PM
Even if the house is worth $100,000 they can sell the house tomorrow

Not in my neighborhood :goodvibes

ccgirl
06-29-2011, 03:29 PM
Even if both had the same rate there is nothing backing up cc debt. Even if the house is worth $100,000 they can sell the house tomorrow and have 0 debt. Even if they had to pay for the realtor they might end up with $10,000 in debt, but with cc they do not have the means to pay the $100,000 even if they sold everything they bought.
Creditors will look at such high amount of cc and run the other way. If someone has a mortgage they will go ahead an allow more credit. Having a lot of cc will reduce your credit score which a mortgage won't do. Yes I agree if you have a mortgage you are in debt, but I do think there is big difference between secure and unsecure debt.

But, good luck selling your house at all, let alone tomorrow. If someone has a $200,000 mortgage on a house that is worth only $100,000 that would be the same thing (to me) as someone with no mortgage but $100,000 credit card. They are still in debt. I get secured vs. unsecured. My point is there are posters saying they could never go on vacation with debt that they only have a mortgage. The mortgage is still a debt, it is just a secured debt. And, depending on the value of the house, it could be worth less than the actual mortgage amount.

lakelandgal70
06-29-2011, 03:34 PM
OP, I have learned a few things during my tenure on the DIS....

The DIS population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

The DIS population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

The DIS population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

The DIS population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

The DIS population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... to being entitled

Its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the DIS and made their own little community. Therefore....

The DIS population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the Desperate Housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.

:worship::thumbsup2 Totally agree and couldn't have said any better.

tyniknate
06-29-2011, 03:58 PM
op, i have learned a few things during my tenure on the dis....

The dis population seems to have lots of rich folks with hundreds of thousands of dollars in various types of savings

the dis population seems to have a lot of wealthy people who never make bad financial choices or splurge

the dis population seems to be made up primarily of people who never take a vacation if they have any debt

the dis population seems to be primarily made up of perfect people who never make mistakes, break a rule, or do any wrong

the dis population seems to consist of many people who feel entitled to everything, including being entitled... To being entitled

its like everyone who is wealthy, perfect and debt free flocked to the dis and made their own little community. Therefore....

The dis population does not represent me or my household.

If you can afford a vacation then you know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.

Sharing your household finances here will only bring out the desperate housewife types who would scold you for going on vacation if you owed $10 on a bill that wasn't even due yet.

Take your vacation and enjoy it while others sit here and bicker back and forth about why you shouldn't.



amen!

dvcgirl
06-29-2011, 06:18 PM
If you can afford a vacation then YOU know it. Not someone on a message board who may or may not be from the advice giving background they claim. If people waited until they had no debt to take a vacation, travel services and tourist locations would be non-existent because there would be no one to bring in revenue.


And your point is exactly why our country is in the position that it is in today. Last time we were at Disney was in 2009 with my entire family. Of course, it was crowded as always....and someone in my family made the comment, "it sure doesn't look like that recession has hit here". And someone else in my family said..."you'd be assuming that everyone you see can actually afford to be here....and many of them can't".

The world seems to still spin on its axis in the 1960s before every family had thousands of dollars in credit card debt and had to save up for things before they actually purchased things. Now....everyone is in "life is too short mode". And as we get through the next 20 years we're going to see the consequences of living life in that mode.

It's not going to be pretty.

Everyone who agrees with your post is just living like most Americans....living paycheck to paycheck, living with debt while trying to save as much as they can (which is likely not enough). Every single piece of data out there backs up this statement.

To the OP, If the consumer debt is so small and the income is good with savings and great retirement plans....why not just pay off the debt, and then save for a year and take a vacation while being completely debt free? Carrying any credit card balance implies that there may be some overspending going on.

Maybe you have the 5K in CC debt at zero percent and are just playing the "we're using the CC company's money" game.... but it's so much cleaner and simpler to just pay it off monthly and be done with it. It's just one less thing to deal with.

And as we're all learning as we go along in this country.....there are no rock-solid pensions and absolute recession-proof jobs these days.

Planogirl
06-29-2011, 08:31 PM
And your point is exactly why our country is in the position that it is in today. Last time we were at Disney was in 2009 with my entire family. Of course, it was crowded as always....and someone in my family made the comment, "it sure doesn't look like that recession has hit here". And someone else in my family said..."you'd be assuming that everyone you see can actually afford to be here....and many of them can't".

The world seems to still spin on its axis in the 1960s before every family had thousands of dollars in credit card debt and had to save up for things before they actually purchased things. Now....everyone is in "life is too short mode". And as we get through the next 20 years we're going to see the consequences of living life in that mode.

It's not going to be pretty.

Everyone who agrees with your post is just living like most Americans....living paycheck to paycheck, living with debt while trying to save as much as they can (which is likely not enough). Every single piece of data out there backs up this statement.

To the OP, If the consumer debt is so small and the income is good with savings and great retirement plans....why not just pay off the debt, and then save for a year and take a vacation while being completely debt free? Carrying any credit card balance implies that there may be some overspending going on.

Maybe you have the 5K in CC debt at zero percent and are just playing the "we're using the CC company's money" game.... but it's so much cleaner and simpler to just pay it off monthly and be done with it. It's just one less thing to deal with.

And as we're all learning as we go along in this country.....there are no rock-solid pensions and absolute recession-proof jobs these days.
Assume much? Some people save while they have debt. Some people see nothing wrong with carrying some debt. I wouldn't call that living paycheck to paycheck.

The problem is when people charge everything and then can't pay it back. While it's not necessarily the best way to go, carrying some debt (for home repairs for example) and then paying cash for a vacation isn't exactly what's bringing on the ruin that you envision.

I also know of people who think that carrying a car loan or even a house note is awful. Everyone has to find what works for them.

GinnyEmma
06-29-2011, 10:18 PM
Assume much? Some people save while they have debt. Some people see nothing wrong with carrying some debt. I wouldn't call that living paycheck to paycheck.

The problem is when people charge everything and then can't pay it back. While it's not necessarily the best way to go, carrying some debt (for home repairs for example) and then paying cash for a vacation isn't exactly what's bringing on the ruin that you envision.

I also know of people who think that carrying a car loan or even a house note is awful. Everyone has to find what works for them.

I agree. It was an extreme broadbrush statement. The world is far more grey than black and white. And extremes make me a bit crazy.

JaymeC
06-30-2011, 06:07 AM
I wouldn't take a vacation if I had credit card debt.... And it's not about secured vs unsecured it's straight up about interest rates. My mortgage is at 4.5%. I also have a personal loan out for 2.49% from our credit union. I am not paying either of these off too quickly, despite generally avoiding debt like the plague. Why? Well, the personal loan I also get 2.6% in interest in the checking account from the same credit union. So at heart, they're paying (very little!) to have that money outstanding. Our mortgage is brand new. First home! And I am not in a rush to pay it off because 10 years from now I truly believe that that interest rate is going to seem tiny. The interest rates like the economy are cyclic, and I don't care to rush to pay it off early if I can be earning more money elsewhere.

But credit card debt is a whole different issue. At minimum unless you're on a promotional rate you're probably paying 10%. That's a lot of interest to be working against you, and that debt is expensive. When you start considering some people are paying 25% on their credit cards... I can't justify taking a vacation if my financial position were that shaky honestly.

There's a reason that saving is so easy once you start to get ahead. It's because you don't have those interest rates working against you, and all the debt payments. I am not rich, nor earning a lot. In fact, I'd wager our family currently is one of the lowest earners here because dh is going back to school. For the next few years we've accepted that instead of saving for retirement and the like we're investing money in his education. But we still pay ourselves first out of every paycheck. Where I see others making debt payments, we're paying all those loans to ourselves so that on our big expenditures we don't need to go into debt. For those who don't do this, I can't tell you how relieving it is and how much easier it makes your life because not paying those interest charges is a huge money saver. And it IS doable. Though truthfully, you may have to skip a vacation or two. Or stay in a cheaper hotel. Or for a shorter trip. But if the vacations are the only times you are making memories with your children and your family, you're doing this life thing wrong.

I love travel. I love Disney. But it's a lot easier to stomach without debt than with.

GinnyEmma
06-30-2011, 06:16 AM
Jaymec, good for you. I lived in a teeney tiny house without running water while we were putting Dh through school. Best thing we did. Financially his BS is worth more to us than my degree!

luvsJack
06-30-2011, 07:27 AM
Jaymec, good for you. I lived in a teeney tiny house without running water while we were putting Dh through school. Best thing we did. Financially his BS is worth more to us than my degree!

without running water? are you serious? How on earth did you bathe and wash clothes or dishes? or have an indoor toilet?

Sorry but if I had to put a water bill on a credit card every month or having running water, you can bet your bottom dollar that cc is getting charged. I went without water for sometime after Katrina, short of another hurricane, that won't be happening again.

GinnyEmma
06-30-2011, 07:46 AM
It was an old family farmhouse. We lived like our grandparents had. No biggie. Laundry we did in town. I was still completing the requirements for my license, and we were dirt poor. It was two years and there are only happy memories.

I don't in any way think that everyone or anyone else "should" do the same. Just was saying that living without in exchange for an education worked for us. Sorry if it came out any stronger than that. :)

Eta: we had electricity and free natural gas. It wasn't as primitive as I may have made it sound!!

gracie1
06-30-2011, 08:03 AM
Is it just me or does it seem that this thread has taken a turn for the worst:confused3 OP just asked for advice, there is no need to start attacking each other about finances. You each know what your finances are and what you can afford within your households. There is really no need for the fighting

nunzia
06-30-2011, 08:05 AM
Is it just me or does it seem that this thread has taken a turn for the worst:confused3 OP just asked for advice, there is no need to start attacking each other about finances. You each know what your finances are and what you can afford within your households. There is really no need for the fighting

...ahh..but they always do....

TinkTock
06-30-2011, 08:45 AM
Oh my, if my mom had waited to go on vacation until she had no credit card debt we wouldn't have ever gone anywhere. :scared1: She spent from June until Dec paying off vacations and from Jan. until June paying off Christmas. We always had a vacation. I can promise you she never regreted it. We use to do the same until we got older and were more financially secure and yes we have money in all those various places and a house almost paid for. But, we have made huge financial blunders! I think it is best practice to pay off your cc each month, but it is a personal decision. Have fun! ;)

This is the kind of thinking that I guess makes people feel like they'll always have credit card debt. If your mom had just skipped vacation for one year, she could spend June through Dec. saving for Christmas, and then there wouldn't be Christmas debt. Then she could save from Jan. until June for vacation, and that wouldn't have to be put on the credit card either. Assuming she didn't have lots of debt from other things, which is how your post makes it sound, she would only have had to skip vacation once to break the cycle.

luvsJack
06-30-2011, 09:04 AM
It was an old family farmhouse. We lived like our grandparents had. No biggie. Laundry we did in town. I was still completing the requirements for my license, and we were dirt poor. It was two years and there are only happy memories.

I don't in any way think that everyone or anyone else "should" do the same. Just was saying that living without in exchange for an education worked for us. Sorry if it came out any stronger than that. :)

Eta: we had electricity and free natural gas. It wasn't as primitive as I may have made it sound!!

Oh, no you didn't sound like you were saying someone else should or sound harsh at all! I was just a bit surprised, that's all and wasn't sure I was reading it correctly.

My hot water heater is on the fritz right now and waiting for dh to get home to fix it. That is bad enough,but NO water! wow. Like I said, I did it for a while (of course it was without electricity too so that didn't help matters) after Katrina; can't imagine it being longer than that.

Sounds like it worked out well for ya'll though! :goodvibes