Is now the time to lobby for DVC annual pass discounts?

[SEC]

I just rejoined the Disney Club so I can use it to get annual passes at a discount. Now that the Disney Club is ending, should DVC members lobby for annual pass discounts?

[burnsoc]

Let's skip lobbying and have a sit-in at DVD headquarters.:jester:

[gmboy95]

oh yeah...i am all over the sit down idea...hell no we wont go!!!!!

[tripletvan]

Works for us!

[Tracy M]

I'm in!!!!

[Simba's Mom]

I think this is a great idea! And I remember sit-ins, so if that's what we decide, I've got experience!

[msmouse]

ohhhh, sitting is my specialty! I should be great at this. It would be great to get discounts on tickets. Hey, we got early entry back. . . . .maybe this will work!

[chris1gill]

I think lobbying is great, but don't expect results... DVD for years has been trying to get us discounts, unfortunately the WD company isn't too keen on the idea... So we can ask DVD til we're blue in the face, unfortunately I don't think there's much they can do about it :(

[disneydom]

when do we start the sit in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:smooth:

[burnsoc]

......All we are saying, is give passes a chance.
Isn't that how the song goes?:jester:

[ncligs]

This is what WD would do to DVC members if they have a sit in http://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/family/pyth.gif

[BCVOwner2002]

Strength is in numbers - should we start a petition?

[DebbieB]

Members have been lobbying for years for better pass discounts, DVC is well aware of it. Other than the 10% UPH discount, the best DVC could get from Disney is the "4 of 5 year park hopper" a couple of years ago, which was a joke. DVC and Disney are not one in the same. DVC cannot just decide to start giving discounts, it has to come from Disney itself and they don't seem interested.

[fredonna]

Disney Club may be phasing out but the concept is not going away. They will be replacing it with the new Disney Visa card in conjunction with Bank of America (if I've got the bank right) in the first half of 2003. This card will provide opportunities to build up credits towards rewards and is rumored to also provide discounts. If it's set up like all the PR reports say, the credit card will have no annual fee -- unlike the Disney Club card.

I think DVC has done a better job of providing discounts for DVCers than the Disney Club has. I think things will only get better -- things have only gone downhill since 9/11 but I haven't seen any signs of things getting worse. In fact, resuming EE days may be the turning point! Let's cross our fingers...

[fkj2]

Well, now might be a good time, with tourism still suffering from a sluggish economy. Even if DVC owners out stayed their points, the temptation would be to still vacation there on cash, utilizing the AP discounts for rooms. More frequent trips to use that AP would mean more food sold, more merchandise sold; it all helps the bottom line. People in the parks looks good to the stock market watchers and would be reflected in the stock price.

I'd say that with a persuasive argument, DVC owners might get somewhere (WDW hopefully) with the idea.

[Zimbubba]

I would prefer lobbying for a straight percentage discount. 10-20% off tickets, meals, shop purchases, etc. We would buy more with such an incentive.

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by Zimbubba
I would prefer lobbying for a straight percentage discount. 10-20% off tickets, meals, shop purchases, etc. We would buy more with such an incentive.
Buy more DVC points -- or buy more tickets, meals, and merchandise?

There's a difference between an ongoing "win-win" discount and an upfront incentive.

An incentive is a benefit to the buyer that the developer pays for. For that DVC resorts, the developer is Disney Vacation Devlopment (DVD), a subsidiary of the The Walt Disney Company. DVC falls under the control of Disney's Theme Parks and Resorts sector. When DVC buyers in the mid-1990s were offered free park passes through the end of 1999, that was an incentive -- DVD paid a negotiated price for those passes. When Marriott "gives" Marriott Vacation Club buyers 200,000 Marriott Rewards points, that's an incentive -- MVCI buys the points from the Marriott Rewards program. At this time, Disney does not feel it necessary to offer serious incentives to prospective buyers.

On the other had, a "win-win" discount is a reduction in the price of something, where that reduction provides a benefit to the buyers and the seller -- the buyers feel they're getting a better value (even when they're buying something they would not otherwise have bought), and the seller gets more gross profit dollars due to more gross sales, even if the margin is lower due to the discount.

Quite frankly, I don't see the point of "lobbying" for discounts if the message is "we deserve discounts because we spent a lot of money when we bought our DVC points." But if you can make a convincing case that some decent percentage of 60,000 DVC families will spend significantly more days in the parks or eat more meals in Disney restaurants or buy more Disney merchandise, then you might get somewhere. Even then, DVC management would have to convince the management of other divisions of Walt Disney World that those arguments are valid.

In another thread, DVC members described how they were spending less time on-site and more time off-site. After all, DVC members who own points at the WDW DVC resorts typically return to WDW year after year. At some point, what's better -- riding Pirates of the Caribbean for the 20th time and eating at Ohana for the 5th time, or reaching out to the many off-site entertainment, dining, and shopping options (which as usually easier on the wallet anyway)? On the other hand, if it were financially attractive for almost all DVC members to have annual passes, we would be much less likely to wander beyond the Realm of the Mouse.

If the points in this posting make sense, now how would you lobby for better discounts?

[DeeP]

The part I do not understand is if you go to the parks 8 days or more then an AP is a better deal financially than any of the other park admission options. It seems as though most DVC members spend at least 8 days at WDW and most times many more days than 8 days a year at WDW, so you are still getting a good deal if you figure out the admission price divided by the number of days you use it. I am a total WDW nut and average 45 -55 days per year from my AP so for me it is a REAL bargain, but even if you use your AP 14 days a year it is still a pretty good deal. I have been to all the non WDW places many times over the years and yet to me non of them can compare to what WDW offers so I know I will be buying APs for many more years. I have been buying APs for years and I think they are a great deal but YMMV.

[Mojomanny]

I agree with the arguements Werner makes. For Disney it is a matter of pure economics. Yes, we all spend thousands of dollars on our points but that bought us vacations through 2042. Nothing more.

If DVC offers free passes, it will come out of our dues and fees. The Parks operate on a seperate P and L statement and will not provide a benefit to DVC out of the goodness of their heart (or wallet).

On the other hand, it might be to Disney's benefit to offer a discount on in park food, merchandise and extras. The benefit for Disney is the hope that DVC members will buy more because of the discount. The benefit for DVC members is that they buy something extra at a discounted price, and maybe buy or do a few things they otherwise would not have bought or done.

It is all a matter of numbers. we are not going to get something for free. Maybe we will get it at a discount.

Nobody asked, just my opinion.

[CaptainMidnight]

I would prefer lobbying for a straight percentage discount. 10-20% off tickets, meals, shop purchases, etc. We would buy more with such an incentive.
Great point. How about just a 10-20% ticket discount. Perhaps the economics would support that model and encourage additional DVC ticket purchases.

[crisi]

DeeP,

While I agree that amoungst the Disney fans here, most probably spend enough time at Disney to justify an AP, I'd be shocked if that were the case amoungst the majority of DVC members. I suspect that there are far more 150 point owners who go down for five days once a year. Or every other year for a week.

The resale contract I didn't buy was 150 OKW points - owned by THREE families! I think that sort of arrangement - a shared contract - is far more common than is represented on these boards.

[CaptainMidnight]

I suspect that there are far more 150 point owners who go down for five days once a year.
And of course, don't forget us Vero Beach and Hilton Head owners doing combination vacations, thosew using thier points for cruises or other alternatives. I'd like to take the rafting trip down teh Grand Canyon someday. I also heard a rumor of a family going to a WDW DVC resort who didn't go into the parks every single day there were there. It's probably not true, but....

Cheaper passes may encourage more use, a model would need to be developed to test that theory, all of us are just guessing...

[trainfun]

Lots of good thoughts in posts above.

Some more to consider: Disney won't do this unless it can be convinced that it will make them more $.

Right now Disney is advertising value resorts at $55/night in our local paper (Newsday). Meanwhile DVC resorts are very busy. Having many of those good DVC'ers buy Ap's would be extra revenue for Disney, because most folks would hit the parks twice on one pass.

We have never bought LOS passes, we always use AP's so we can go in late July one year, early July the next. Our kids have seen the parks a zillion times, but we still like to go in for a dinner at EPCOT, fireworks, etc. We cherry pick our park time to avoid crowds and heat. The second year is extra revenue for Disney because we'd go to Vero or Hilton Head if we didn't have the AP.

So, I see this as a money maker for Disney.

To convince them someone with many more posts and who is well known on the boards could start a poll of how many DVC'ers use annual passes.

Also, if Disney gave a significant discount on the passes and made a commitment to do so for 10 years, then DVC could use this as a selling point. When DVC sells lots of points, those profits must show up on Disney Corp.'s bottom line. So, a significant AP discount could become a major DVC sales tool and help drive Disney Corp profits. If it is a "win-win" then it could happen.

Remember, many of us bought DVc with young kids, who are now older. They like to see the parks every few years, but if their parents had AP's for the family, the chances of more park visits would increase.

In a faltering economy this could provide a boost for Disney, even if only 5-10,000 DVC'ers took advantage.

[MrShiny]

I agree there is little economic incentive for Disney to provide pass discounts. They would act more as an incentive to buy DVC, and it doesn't appear Disney needs that. Now discounts on food and merchandise do make sense, since these are optional things. If you are going to stay in a DVC property, you are probably going to go to the parks, so you'll buy some sort of pass. They incent the one that makes them the most, the Unlimited (which forces yo to pay for park admission every day). Now you have a kitchen and probably a bunch of WDW merchandise already, so it is possible for you not to spend on those things relatively easily. And as they are high margin items, the discount is overweighed by the additional profit.

The thing that would prompt Disney to discount passes is if DVC sales slowed. With BCV 60% sold and Saratoga Springs on the way, that doesn't seem like it's happening.

[anniet]

Disney might need us in their parks more than one might think.....

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-asecparks06100602oct06,0,5006130.story?coll=orl-news-headlines


I would be very interested in a Poll to see how many days people spend in the parks.

I spend two weeks a year in the Orlando area, and maybe 4 days in the Disney Parks.

[Maistre Gracey]

Don't forget to figure all the people Disney would lose money on.

For example, my wife and I buy a PAP every year. Although we don't go to the parks in the morning, we eat every dinner at either the parks, or a resort. We also usually shop after dinner.

We take advantage of our DC/renewal rate for our PAP, and any discounts offered on meals. We do not let meal discounts dictate where we eat.

In other words, we spend the money already...if DVC gives us a discount on PAPs or meals, they will get less of our money.

I know this may be the opposite of many here, but there are also many members like us. The amount they would lose on members like us must be factored in.

[crisi]

Same thing with a discount on stuff - only profitable for Disney if you spend the same amount of money - or are convinced having the discount is such a deal you spend more. If you use your discount to save money - go out to dinner the same number of times at the same places, buy the same t-shirts - Disney loses money on the deal.

While there are certainly all three types of people out there (those that would spend the same and get more for it, those that would spend even more since they are getting a deal, and those that would buy the same stuff - just cheaper), its a mystery to me what the mix would be and if it would be more profitable.

And there is the margin question. While there are certainly things at Disney carrying high margins, I am unconvinced that we are being soaked at every turn. I find most sit down restaurants to be fairly competatively priced to what I pay for a similar meal at home, most clothing to not be marked up dramatically from what I pay at home (I don't shop for clothes at Wal-Mart though - but I'm not getting Wal-Mart quality from Disney either).

The current DVC discounts seem to be used as crowd control measures - lets move DVCers to some very good but less popular restaurants. This helps create buzz on the restaurants, and frees up the more popular restaurants.