Hat at Studios?

[AllisonG]

Now, I know you guys may have already gone over this, but I'll ask anyway. Why do they want this Sorcerers Hat to be the new icon for the Studios? The Earful Tower is doing a fine job. Whats he need? Was there such a demand for a new icon? I mean come on. Does anyone else find this peculiar?:rolleyes:

[toefungus]

They want to make somthing special for the 100 years of magic celebration. Kind of like the 2000 in epcot. It does represent disney movies, and it should look really cool. I'm sure they'll use the earful tower sometimes also.

[HBK]

Personally I think they're in the early, early phases of preperation regarding the possible removal or replacement of GMR.

I know the earfull tower is the "symbol" of MGM, but unlike the other three parks, it's not really visible from everywhere in the park.

We'll see what happens.

[brer_porcupine]

I like the idea of having that sorcerer's hat as the icon of the studios because it honestly doesn't have a central icon like the other parks. If it were up to me they wouldve just bulldozed that ugly chinese theatre, got rid of that boring boring ride and just put the hat there.

[iamleia2]

Hey! For those of us who appreciate old movies, that ride is wonderful! They better not bull doze it!

[Testtrack321]

I have to aggre with HBK. They are in the early stages of GMR removal.

[Laura]

Well, I don't think they'll ever lose the exterior of the Great Movie Ride, but to put something else inside is another story.

What I wish they would get rid of is the lame Epcot sign above Spaceship Earth. I liked the whole 2000 thing, but, um, we kinda know which park we're in, thanks.

[caveat lector]

As long as we are "wishing," I wish they would never get rid of anything, but continue to add new things. While I realize this isn't fiscally responsible (and I am a shareholder), let's just hope they make the correct decision.
:bounce:

[IASW Rider]

I wish that they could just keep adding things, too! I am also sad regarding the prospect of the GMR removal /replacement, but it seems as if the size of the Sorcerer's hat all but blocks one's view of the Chinese Theater when approaching it on the Boulevard! I'm sure that it will be nice, and it's also a good "advertisement" for Fantasmic, but I sure would miss the GMR and Chinese Theater if they were gone!

[ContempoSMT]

I like the idea of the sorcerer hat.. it will look good with the Studios, I like the great movie ride butit is getting old, i know the whole thing by heart... maybe put something new in there, or maybe a new story to act from! :bounce:

[PlutoPal]

No way ContempoSMT, the Great Movie Ride is a classic, and that stupid hat will just blocks your view of the GMR!

[Captain Hook]

While I'm all for the new logo I think it's a poor design to put it in front of the GMR. I would think that Disney would have a master plan for adding future attractions to there parks. Then again maybe Eisner has a deal with McDonalds to make a happy meal toy with a Mickey hat in every box

[DVC-Landbaron]

I would think that Disney would have a master plan for adding future attractions to there parks.

Are you kidding!!?? What has Ei$ner EVER done to make you think he has EVER considered a master plan.

Look at the Swan and Dolphin. Look at th Floridian. Look the horror of transportation. Heck just pull out a map and look at the whole property!! Not much "planning" going on....

Oh my. It's getting late and I really start to feel ill when I think about the "master plan" they used to have. Excuse me... I have to go lay down......:rolleyes: :( :( :rolleyes:


PS: I think you're right about McDonalds (LOL)

[vmkids]

As a new Disney vistor... I liked the look of the future hat. We watched Fantasmic and that was the BEST! Stands to reason to use it as an icon. The only way we could see the ears on water tower was outside the main park. I know how much easier it was for us to use the center focal point to move around. Something about seeing the big icons from the parking lot just started the magic everytime!

[YoHo]

And my Dear Landbaron, What exactly, was the master plan before Eisner, but After Walt? Once E.P.C.O.T. Died, what exactly was the master plan?

Parks are fluid things, I would think having a master plan beyond Makeing it the Happiest place on Earth would be troublesome. I'm sure they have master Plans on a park level and as far as the sorcerors hat goes. My impression is that they are creating an Icon that that park lacked since no one thing seemed to define it adequatly. The Sorceror's hat if done right could represent Disney Creativity and Magic in the Entertainment field quite well and thus...would be appropriate for that park.

[DVC-Landbaron]

And my Dear Landbaron, What exactly, was the master plan before Eisner, but After Walt? Once E.P.C.O.T. Died, what exactly was the master plan?
WOW!! YoHo!! Are you gunning for me lately? It seems that you disagree with EVERYTHING I say.

Oh well. Since you asked, I have a few questions to ask you first. And I guess it even fits on the rumor board, even though some of them are thirty years old. They do point to planning. And THEME. Ever wonder why they placed the two original hotels where they did? Ever hear of the Asian Resort? Know where that was supposed to go? Know why? Ever hear of the Persian Resort? Know where that was supposed to go? Know why? Ever wonder why there are pilings and support structures behind EPCOT? Ever look at MGM and wonder why they hemmed themselves in? Ever ask yourself just what the heck that giant fish and swan is doing as a backdrop to the Eiffel Tower?

Fear not, YoHo, my friend!! All your questions will be answered.

First off let me say that plans are a great thing. But they must remain fluid. On this we seem to agree. The difference is that the plans I'm talking about they didn't even try to make fluid. They were simply discarded altogether and replaced with… with… well… NOTHING!!! Except Ei$ner's whim!

When WDW opened there were to be five (count 'em, FIVE) hotel/resorts around the Magic Kingdom. And it is very important to note that they were to be themed in accordance with the lands from which you may be able to catch a glimpse from in the MK. Take a ride on the Peoplemover and see the Contemporary. Very appropriate!! Walk through various areas of Adventureland and glimpse the Poly. Good SHOW!! Look a little to the right and see that far off, exotic and foreign - Floridian??? Wait! What happened? How does that go with Adventureland??!! OH! I see! It's part of that fluid part of the plan. Those little changes that need to be done! Right? But I thought the Asian was to go there. Yes it was. Ei$ner, however, didn't like the Asian. He liked the Floridian. Now there's a guy who gets theming!!

Behind (that's right BEHIND) the MK was to be the fanciful Persian, complete with rising exotic and mystical turrets. Hmmm. Fanciful, did he say? Why, isn't that a coincidence!! A fanciful tower right behind Fantasyland. What a backdrop!! What will they think of next?

Tishman sued Disney over the building of EPCOT (I forget the details off hand, but can probably look them up if you're interested). And they won. They got to build the Swan and the Dolphin. But why there? Why as a backdrop to one of the most intriguing and magical places in all of WDW. They spent an awful lot of time researching and developing the forced perspective for the Eiffel Tower. Today that effect is ruined because of what is behind it. Of course it could be worse. I've heard horror stories that the design Ei$ner wanted to with was a Giant Mickey head hotel. Not just an icon on top of the resort, but a hotel shaped like a Mickey head!!! Is it any wonder that this guy puts up a giant baseball or guitar and thinks it's great theming??!!

Next time you're on the EPCOT monrail take a look at some of the structures behind EPCOT. Those were installed to carry Monorail beams that would connect the EPCOT resorts. Which would also nullify the back door to EPCOT, thus making room for additional countries (never mind, we won't get any more anyway!!!) It would also handle a great deal of transportation needs. And it would be in keeping with Walt's ideal for a theme park (tried and true) as having a single entrance with a single, central icon, which can be viewed from nearly everywhere in the park.

Which leads us to MGM. Which completely buries Disney's theme park layout and also has no central icon, no hub and themes that are a little jumbled at best. What were they thinking!!!??? I guess the right answer is, "Hey, what do you expect from an Ei$ner park?" And to make matter worse (can they be worse?) take a look at an aerial photograph sometime. If they ever suffered a real brain cramp (for current management at least) and decided to do some major expansion to the Studios, guess what? They can't!!! They've hemmed themselves in!!

And all this doesn't even touch the surface. What about transportation? Can we really handle any more buses? And with Pop Century coming…. I'm sure there are other examples. But all these things were honest to God, true plans. I know we can't keep them all. I know plans HAVE to change. But to totally discard them and then replace them with NOTHING is inexcusable. I'm sorry. I'm feeling a little ill again.

Voice, have I left anything out?

[Another Voice]

About the hat at the studio, consider this following “rumor”.

A certain major studio has spent millions refurbishing an decaying theater on Hollywood Blvd. This theater is used to promote the studios’ giant summer blockbuster moives, only it hasn’t had one in a long time. So now, this theater is being used by the studio as the anchor point of a major urban redevelopment, much like the studio used another theater on Times Square in New York. Shops, live stage shows, a television studio and throngs of tourists eager to experience the Magic of Hollywood right in the middle of Hollywood Blvd. are in the works.

Yet, Mr. Big Studio Head sees a problem. It seems that the studio also owns an amusement park on the other side of the country. Now this park is all about the movies, but its centerpiece is a copy of <gasp> ANOTHER AGING MOVIE PALACE! And the original theater – it’s the one RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET from the one that Mr. Big is spending his hard earned money on.

“How can people think that OUR theater,” screams Mr. Big in a staff meeting, “is Hollywood when they the first thing they’re going to see is that big [omitted] Oriental theater!!!!!!” And with that the underlings scurried away to form a plan.

[YoHo]

Interesting AV, it certainly fits with my theory That Mikey of 2001 pales to Mikey of 1980's as far as magic go.


Now, on to landbaron.

DVC, I don't know if you remember this, but the first big argument we had revolved around Park layout, I didn't agree with you then and I don't agree with you now.


http://wdwinfo.infopop.net/0/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=40009993&f=47009194&m=212090722#130091172


from that thread

http://disney.go.com/disneyworld/popups/maps/mgm.jpg

The Corner of Hollywood and Sunset blvds. New York street is a little off center, but otherwise a quite
reasonable hub


I will continue to say what I've been saying, Disney Studios is designed after a working studios, perhaps incorrectly so, but none the less, it was planned the way it is. I actually like most of the layout.


As for the rest of the "plan".

I'm a bit confused. I thought that MK was at the edge of the property and thus putting a hotel behind Fantasyland wouldn't work so well.

I realize the Asian was scrapped, but Siince you actually can't SEE out of Adventureland to the poly anyway since the foliage blocks the view....
As for the monorail tracks, Its the first I've heard about it, and I've never seen the pilings.
I've also never seen the SWan/Dolphin from the France Pavilion. Not that you can't, I just don't ever recall noticing.




I'm meandering terribly off topic here. I agree htat the plan for the parks has been lost in the recent (past 5 years) past. But I disagree with the suggestion that Eisner and his managment team, never at any time had a plan.


Regardless of why that plan is gone, Disney needs to regroup, with that I'll agree, but I don't think MGM is an example of a lack of one. Its more an example of an abandoned one. Again, I split hairs Since I know your response will be "so what its still going to the dogs." And I will respond with, it matters, because it matters to me what Ei$ner would do if he were Chairmen only, And, its far easier ot fix that which has a plan and didn't follow it, then to make sense of an unplanned kludge.

[DVC-Landbaron]

YoHo, we look at the same map, go to the same place and still we do not see the same things. I look at that map you posted and still can’t follow what you’re saying. To me it is simply confusing. I don’t find any other park as confusing. I’m never even so much as turned around in MK or EPCOT. In fact, I know many shortcuts and out of the way places most don’t. But, when I visit MGM I get a “case of the losts” at least once. Usually by the Muppet Theater. I find it confounding and difficult to navigate. And I especially resent the fact that in several places the only way to get somewhere else is to backtrack. Dead ends seem to be rather prevalent in this park! Maybe it’s just me. Anyway, I think it may be best if we decide to agree to disagree. But I do indeed thank you for the link to that most wonderful thread. My post on that one, “What Walt Would Want” was one of my best, don’t you think? And I’m afraid one day you may see a rerun of it. I cut it and will wait calmly for an appropriate place to post it!! Thanks!! Now can you help me find my other one? You know, the three-part dissertation regarding the SHOW!! I have no idea where that one is.

Anyway, suppose I give you the Studio layout, for argument’s sake. What about the rest? What about all those wonderful plans before Ei$ner took over. And what about the hodge-podge afterwards? What about dooming the growth of MGM? Is there any credence to it?

On a side note, one good thing has come from our talks. You have learned how to spell Ei$ner’s name correctly. Thank you!!!!

I'm a bit confused. I thought that MK was at the edge of the property and thus putting a hotel behind Fantasyland wouldn't work so well.
Be that as it may, it is the gospel! They even had the five-year plan (Phase two, I believe it was called) in every hotel room on the property. It was a huge map, probably five by five, of the property (the built out section, not the whole thing) and on it were all the proposed resort sites.
I realize the Asian was scrapped, but Siince you actually can't SEE out of Adventureland to the poly anyway since the foliage blocks the view....
I didn’t think so either and I do admit there’s not much to see, but you can glimpse it. And I guess it was more so when the place first opened. Unless, of course you’re on the train, then it’s rather panoramic!! Little things like that seemed to matter a great deal back then to those silly, extravagant Imagineers. Part of what made Disney Disney, I guess.
As for the monorail tracks, Its the first I've heard about it, and I've never seen the pilings. I've also never seen the SWan/Dolphin from the France Pavilion. Not that you can't, I just don't ever recall noticing.
Both are absolutely true. The pilings I didn’t learn about until much later. But the Swan and Dolphin I knew about as it happened, because I sometimes work with Tishman in the job I’m in. I believe their employees still get quite a discount. And I was greatly saddened when I saw those two monstrosities rising over the EPCOT horizon. What a disaster!! In the foreground Italy!! In the background a giant fish (or swan, I forget which!!) Kind of takes away a bit from the magic of being transported to that country, doesn’t it?
I'm meandering terribly off topic here. I agree that the plan for the parks has been lost in the recent (past 5 years) past.
OK, now we’re getting somewhere!!!
But I disagree with the suggestion that Eisner and his managment team, never at any time had a plan.
Can you show me one single shred of evidence or is this just a gut feeling? Not that I discount gut feelings. Most of my musings are nothing more than that. But this seems to me to be a rather bold statement if you don’t have ANY facts to back it up.
And I will respond with, it matters, because it matters to me what Ei$ner would do if he were Chairmen only
And I will respond with, “So what? It’s still going to the dogs,” again. He will never be “Chairman only”. His ego won’t allow it!
And, its far easier to fix that which has a plan and didn't follow it, then to make sense of an unplanned kludge.
Don’t have much to add to this one. I agree. I just liked the term “unplanned kludge”!!

AV - I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that you are 100% correct!! Never made the connection myself. Again I thank you for your insight!!

ps: to YoHo:
Oh, and BTW, “unplanned kludge” is a perfect way to describe Ei$ner’s WDW plan!!!;)

[YoHo]

Actually, I believe that Master Plan is still sitting somewhere in the TTC. Either that or they moved it to the Training Facilities. Maybe if Safari Steve or another CM is Lurking they'll pipe up. From everything I've heard, that basic layout was still being followed (as much as it showed) I can't remember exactly, but I don't think the map defined which resorts were to go where. I also Don't remember the resort behind the kingdom, but again, I'd need a picture of the map. And unless you have an advantix camera, that's kind of hard.


As for seeing the resorts from the train, Now I'm going to have to take the time and look (like I'll remember this in february):) But, As I recall, that Panoramic view exists (right now) only while you are leaving Mainstreet Station. Once you actually enter Adventureland, all you see to your left is a drainage canal and a road. I supppose if the Asian were built tall enough that you could see its top from adventureland, it would be relevent, but Grand Floridian is short.

Further, I suspect that the plan was modified when Epcot went in. Since Asia isn't such a place of adventure when they have two Pavilions in your World's faire area. They should have put country themed resorts there. ANyway, I'm going off topic in a way I know you don't care for.

[OnWithTheShow]

The latest master plan that I have seen is from 1993. It included several resorts that were built as well as Animal Kingdom and some monorail expansion that wasnt built.

The current talk at the Studios is creating a new "Avenue" where residential street currently is and running it towards the outside of the park were the main entrance road is. The road would be moved further into the woods and reduced in size (hardly anyone uses this road most enter the park through the smaller entrance over near boardwalk)

This avenue would be home to several dark rides and a major roller coaster/thrill ride.

Just what I heard:p

BTW- LandBaron if you ever becom lost near Muppets again look for me, my name is Rob. I will help you find your way around our confusing park.

[DVC-Landbaron]

BTW- LandBaron if you ever becom lost near Muppets again look for me, my name is Rob. I will help you find your way around our confusing park.
ROB!! Thank you!! I think all CMs are GREAT!! I searched for Safari Steve in April, but couldn't link up (but my daughter did and he was GREAT to her!!) I'm going back again in August. You bet I will look for you even if I don't get lost!! Thanks!!

[HorizonsFan]

Yeah, he'll be the old guy in the "I Hate Ei$ner" t-shirt!
;)

[larworth]

On With the Show

OK, I'll bite.

Any more details about this rumored new "Avenue". You know, any mention of what concepts these dark rides would be based on, any mention of time frame (next 5 years, next 10 years) attached to it. Where does it fall on the credability scale.

I think it is still OK if we talk about rumors here.

[ww52]

Sorry that this is off the topic, but looking at the map reminded me that an arial view of the Studios shows an upside down hidden Mickey (somewhat modifed since the original layout - one of the ears is now wiped out.) I would guess that the hat will pretty much wipe out the effect altogether.

[DVC-Landbaron]

... it's all great theming to Ei$ner!!

Yeah, he'll be the old guy in the "I Hate Ei$ner" t-shirt!
OLD GUY again!!! (but you're right about the shirt. Can I get those at Old Key West?)

As to straying off topic, I don't think you did. And I would like all those who like MGM to answer. I don't get a big thrill out of the place, but I can appreciate some of the finer points. Now, it might be just me, but I seem to recall someone (I think YoHo) saying that the general theme of the Studios was just that. A working studio, albeit caught in a time warp. And I think they did do a marvelous job with that. The ambience and feel of the streets as you enter, all the down to that quaint theater that is so recognizable to us "old guys". Now, again, I could be wrong, but for the life of me I can't recall one single, solitary instance of ever seeing a GIANT sorcerer's hat in Hollywood in the '30's or '40's. Really!! I can't. Hmmm. Memory must be slipping do to the "old guy" thing.

Is anyone else bothered by this?

[ww52]

"Is anyone else bothered by this?"

No more so than the by the giant "Epcot" sign on the geosphere (which is to say - yes I am bothered by it.) As someone else said - I know I'm in Epcot, I don't need a giant sign. Maybe the hat will be topped off with a sign that says "Disney Studios". Then Eisner can put a Magic Kingdom sign on the castle, and an Animal Kingdom sign on the Tree of Life.

[supamaki]

I have a feeling that it would have been more expensive to take down the whole structure than to just put up the Epcot sign like they did. Just a hunch though.

[larworth]

As I said before MGM already is so much less contiguous in time and place than the other parks. RnR next to ToT. Star Tours next to Indy. HISK playground next to metropolis. Canyon next to 50's backlot.

Because of this I hadn't thought much about the time relevance of the hat versus it's line of sight issues. I'm not sure thinking about it bothers me. At least the hat is a product of the pre 50's era that it sits in.

[YoHo]

The Earful tower I assume is in reference to the Warnerbrothers Water tower which towers over the studio.

If you ever go to Universal Studios Hollywood, the only cool (IMHO) thing to do is use the pay binocs to look over hollywood and Burbank. From those you get a great shot of the Warner tower.

On this, I must agree with Landbaron, the hat doesn't fit, at least not on paper. I've often fet that Disney animation references should remain in the MK as much as possible (there goes my position on Monsters Inc.) But I'll reserve final judgement until I'm there.

[Another Voice]

Actually, the water tower at WDW is in homage to the water tower on the Studio lot in Burbank. For years it was the only "landmark" on the Disney Lot. Most movie studios look like large factory blocks and the Mickey Mouse on the water tower was the only thing that made Disney look different from the Lockheed plant up the road. When designing the Disney/MGM Studios, WDI copied the only unique features on the entire Disney lot - the watertower and the metal art deco building signs. Then Eisner built the Temple of the Dwarves, but that's another story...

By the way, the Disney tower is actually much taller and larger than the Warner's tower. Walt and Jack Warner were never the best of friends...

[YoHo]

Walt and Jack Warner were never the best of friends..
No, I wouldn't think so. ;) Never knew about the Disney tower though, thanks.


I'm sensing a negative on the Temple of Dwarves (I'm also sensing the new Indy ride, but that may just be my medication:crazy: ) All the pictures I've seen make it seem pretty cool. Is it not so in person? or is it simply who built it and what goes on inside that rankels you?

[disneyberry]

jeez, just pay the money to take it down.
i was in shock when i saw it in place of the 2000.
it's sooo ugly, the font is all wrong, and i don't even know if any font could make it look better.

also MGM is incredibly annoying especially since there are usually only these obscure ways to get to a certain street/avenue.

back on topic, i was just at MGM a few weeks ago, and i do think that the hat seems to be built a little too close to the Mann's theatre. there'll hardly be any space between them. are they really planning to take down the theatre?

[SpaceMountain_uk]

There are pictures of the Master Plan on WDWMAGIC.com

[JeffJewell]

are they really planning to take down the theatre

No one knows for sure what's going to happen at WDW until the construction walls go up, and even after that point there can be drastic changes.

But there are three things I do know for sure:

There have been rumors for a while that most quarters think the Great Movie Ride is long overdue a big update. The rumors vary as to the extent of the changes.

The Disney Company (at no minor expense) has renovated a Hollywood Theatre in direct competition (on both historical and economic scales) with the real Mann's Chinese Theatre. It's likely management doesn't care for advertising the enemy.

Michael Eisner loves killing two birds with one stone.

Given those three things I know, I expect the Theatre facade, and likely the whole ride, to be replaced sooner rather than later.

Jeff

PS - Now, if ME could kill a _third_ bird, and install a tie-in with a hugely successful movie (Disney hasn't created one of those in a while, but they've rented a few from Pixar. Monsters, Inc. is up next)...

[SueM in MN]

When the studio opened, the theater was a natural endpoint to looking up the street as you entered the park. If you don't know the georgraphy of the actual theater, you can imagine that's exactly how it would have looked in 1940's Hollywood. I don't know about that hat. It ruins the whole effect.
Anyway, my DH has a little book he got when he visited WDW the year it opened, "The Story of WDW". There is a map with the MK hotels at the time MK opened and the planned hotels. The future Asian Resort Hotel is indicated on the map where the GF is now. The Future Venetian Resort Hotel is between the Polynesian and the Contemporary. There is also a Future Persian Resort Hotel (with a monorail line that goes directly to MK). It is on the map behind the Tomorrowland Speedway, just above the Contemporary.
One of the other interesting things on the plan map is a tiny little airport (Labeled Lake Buena Vista STOLport) that says it would have air service from airports in Tampa, Daytona and other Florida cities directly to WDW. The airport is near Ft. Wilderness on the map.

[rollercoaster]

The airport is really their if you look at the satalite (spelling) photos of WDW you can see the runway and some tiny buildings. It is located just a little south of the Contemporary(spelling).

[Another Voice]

The Gruman’s/Mann’s Chinesse Theater in Hollywood in the middle of a block on Hollywood Blvd. It’s set back from the street and is actually very difficult to see until your right on top of it. It’s generally been surrounded by tacky tourist shops and is considered a disappointment by many people who come to look at it. It’s still a working movie theater and the inside of the theater is more opulent than the WDW version. There’s been a major to develop that section of the boulevard and it looks like it’s actually taking hold. Not only is Disney spending on the El Capitian, but a new center has been built for the Oscars and other functions as well. Hopefully that development will spread to the smaller storefronts on the street.

There were actually two airports planned for WDW. The first airstrip was actually built and can still be seen from an Epcot-bound monorail. Look to the left of the train into the woods just south of the road the road that leads to Fort Wilderness. When WDW first opened, I heard that at least one commuter airline offered service for a time. It’s used mostly for parking and bus training. The second, larger airport started in Walt Disney’s EPCOT master plan as was to have located at the extreme southern end of the property. It would have served mostly corporate jests and smaller commuter airlines.

Papers were filed in the last couple of years to start a feasibility study about building the airport south of Celebration. The rumored “Omega Plan” at WDW would allow guests to fly directly to WDW from anywhere in the country and be whisked via Disney transportation to their resort. It would help Disney sell WDW as a “complete resort”, and it would also make guests bypass International Drive, Universal and all the other areas that don’t generate dollars for the mouse.

[IASW Rider]

I just don't get it. I'm sure that the sorcerer's hat, in and of itself, will be attractive and interesting.....but why put it in a place where it totally blocks out the original "icon" of the Studios?! Couldn't they put it somewhere else - like outside the entrance gates, perhaps? Or near the Hollywood Hills Ampitheater, in keeping with the "Fantasmic" theme? I agree with all previous posters who said that the hat, placed in front of the Chinese Theater, will ruin the whole effect. And I didn't know about WDC's refurbishing of a Hollywood Theater, sort of in competition with Mann's - that is very interesting! Still, I just don't understand what's going on - it seems like so many things that are familiar and sentimental to us are being changed - I just read another post which said that they are only running half of the Electrical Water Pageant, now! I know that there are budget constraints, and perhaps that some things can't stay the same forever, but I would really miss the Chinese Theater and The Great Movie Ride if they were gone. As for the new "Epcot" sign, I say change it into a "2001" (and update in future years) or take it down all together. As a previous poster said....They'd better not put a red cloak around Cinderella Castle.... or turn the Tree of Life into a huge broom carrying a bucket of water!