Shouldn't I have the right.....

[David&Danielle]

to stay at a DVC resort before a cash guest does?


Just asking.

[Crissup]

Not necessarily. While it irks me also that a cash paying guest may be able to get a ressie when I can't, it's just how the system works. When a DVC member trades into DCL, DCL has to recoup their costs by renting those points out to cash paying guests. While those guests are paying cash, technically, they're still staying on member points.

[David&Danielle]

How far out can a cash guest reserve a 2 br at BWV?

If it is more than 7 months there is something wrong with this picture?

[Richyams]

So, exactly what do you think Disney should do with the points people use for Concierge Collection stays and the like?

The way its done now, if a BWV member uses points for a Concierge stay, the day those reservations are made, say 10 months out, those points are Disney's......what should Disney do with them? Of course, they will make them available for cash reservations. They do adhere to the 7-11 window, so those points will only be used for reservations sold at BWV until they get to the seven month window.

This is why once points are committed to a Concierge Collection, Bed and Breakfast, Cruise or other such thing, they can never be returned to regular status. If you cancel a cruise or some other thing, the points remain as "reservation points" , this is because Disney has already gotton value for those points.

If you don't understand any of that, let me know, I will try to explain more thoroughly.

There is no nefarious activity going on.

[Dean]

Actually what they could do (and fortunately don't) is to reserve the holiday time and rent it out. It would make financial sense but as a courtesy to members they don't reserve holiday time with the traded points. I'm sure they do rent holiday with the breakage inventory though but if something is not reserved at 2 months out, I definitely want them to rent out the time and have the income to offset dues. Apparently they try to spread the use of traded points over the entire year excluding holiday time. I'm not sure if they only avoid Christmas and Spring break of other holidays as well but would suspect it's just the Premier time they avoid.

Cash reservations will be available theoretically at the 11 month window at any sold out DVC resort though practicality would suggest a delay of a couple of weeks or more.

[SueOKW]

Prior to joining DVC, I was told that a non-DVC member can not make reservations until 6 months before the last day of their trip.

[Richyams]

You were mis-informed.

DVC sales staff has been pretty cavilier with the truth.

Think about it.....what should Disney do with the points that it gets from member exchanges?????

Would some people like to see them put those points in a hole till they expired?

[Lhargus]

I was told by my guide that Disney retains a 2 percent interest in every DVC resort. Does anyone know if this is true?

[WebmasterDoc]

Yes, the "held back" % is to be used for rehab and repair issues. If rooms are not needed for this purpose, DVD can also rent those rooms.

[bicker]

I believe the percentage is 4% not 2%.

[9walnuts]

I was also told it was 4%. Which if you think obout it means a sold out resort is guaranteed 96% pecent occupancy 100% of the time. It is easy to see why there is difficulty in obtaining ressies for certain dates and why you certainly should buy at the resort you want to stay at for the 11 month window.

[David&Danielle]

Let me try to clarify.

If I own at OKW I can only try to get in at BWV at 7 months.
All I am saying is I should have first right to get in at BWV before cash customers. It is a DVC property.

Why is this wrong?

[WebmasterDoc]

The "cash customers" are merely renting the points already "used" by another member. We, as members, are not competing with the non-member, we are competing with other members for those nights.

The reservations thru CRO are from a different inventory of points. Once a member trades points for a cruise or other exchange, those points are no longer DVC points and are available just as the unsold portions of HH, VB and VWL are right now.

As for the % held back. We were also told 4% when we purchased OKW in '93, but they are holding only 2% at the DVC resorts at this time. I don't know if this includes OKW or not. I know it does for VWL.

[dianeschlicht]

There is nothing wrong with it. It is just not feasible if those points have already been used. Now if you wanted to make a cash ressie rather than a point ressie, you could do that. There are a finite number of points available for each unit. That is because there are a finite number of days in a year. You think it is like 'robbing Peter to pay Paul', but it really isn't.

[David&Danielle]

My DW tells me often that I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer most of the time....and this is obviously one of those times.

I'm sure this whole point issue is pertinent to the discussion but to me its more basic than that. I also understand that there is a finite amount of space. I just believe that a cash customer should be put on a standby reservation when it comes to a DVC property. 7 months should be plenty of time for me to get a ressie at any DVC resort I want before a cash customer.

They should either be bumped or should be told that they can not be guaranteed of their room at a DVC resort until arrival.

I know this isn't practical I just feel that since I have a DVC membership I should get preference over a cash customer when it comes to a DVC resort.

:D

[Richyams]

One way to think of it is like this....are you happy with the value Disney gives you when using your points in the different types of exchanges????

Some would say that the value you get is kind of low.

If disney was forced to allow all those points used for exchanges to sit in a box till the six month window opened, they would return less value to Disney. In turn, this would force Disney to offer us less value on our exchanges.

Disney has to get a fair value for the points used for exchanges, the only way they can do that is by renting out the units in a reasonable timeframe.

In fact, those people who are paying with cash that far out are actually staying on points, they are staying on members points that were used for exchages. Actual "cash" reservation, those reservations involving breakage inventory, rooms that are rented without points being involved at all, DO NOT BECOME AVAILABLE TILL 60 DAYS PRIOR.

[Tinker Bell]

The question is should you have preference over how a BWV owner chooses to use his home resort at the 11 month window? If the answer to that is "no" and BWV owners have the option to use their points to pay for cruises and the concierge collection, then there are times when cash customers should be ahead of you.

Consider the extreme case - all BWV owners decide to use their points outside of the DVC system (cruise, conceirge, etc.) Under this scenario BWV would be 100% used by cash paying customers (to pay for the owner's vacations outside of DVC). You would have no right or ability to use BWV for that year.

You shouldn't think of it as being behind cash customers in priority. You are behind owners who are making use of the 11 month window.

Tinker

[Chuck S]

Another way to think of it...if I were to rent my points to grandma, I could make her ressie at the 11 month window. The only difference is...when I trade my points for DCL or concierge, I'm in effect telling grandma that Disney is my rental agent, and she has to pay Disney instead of me. It is the same ressie, with an 11 month window.

[bjcgl]

the other situation is that until a resort is completely sold out, the unsold percentage of points is Disney's to rent out as they please.

[BobH]

Even thought we might wish otherwise, I believe it is Disney's right to rent out 4% of their inventory. I know it might seem terrible when someone can't get a reservation they want, but on the otherhand 96% of the DVC members did get the reservation they requested. Maybe I am lucky - I recently got a reservation for the exact dates I needed only 5 weeks out from arrival date. I suppose the glass can be either 96% full or 4% empty depending on your point of view.
One thing is certain, Disney will probably not let rooms go empty.

[Dean]

This does bring up an interesting question. Does DVC use the points exchanged in the same use year and same resort as they belong to? I assume they generally do but don't know for certain. What would happen if I traded points midway through the use year and no reservations were available for my home resort? Would DVC lose those points and that revenue (and our maints fees be slightly higher) or would they cross to other sister resorts or bank the points much like an owner would?

As for the cash rentals, I look at it much like when I walk into a restaurant. The hostess says smoking or non smoking? and I say non smoking. Well I could say first available and have access to anything but I wait for the non smoking. Cash is smoking.

[David&Danielle]

That is my point exactly.

I do not want or expect Disney to let the rooms go empty. Just wait to rent them out as long as possible.

If I called today to make a cash res at BWV how far out could I book it?

[PamOKW]

DVC waits until 60 days to rent rooms from member inventory that are vacant. The 4% of rooms that are available for rehab and for rental can be rented whenever they like (they own the rooms). Rooms that are used by members for exchanges can be rented as soon as they are exchanged. I'm not sure exactly how this works in terms of type of room, season, etc., etc. but Disney cannot (and should not) wait to sell these rooms. Those rooms are no longer member inventory but are "owned" for the year by Disney.

Think of it this way (all points and $ are fictional). You reserve a room for two nights at The Plaza in NYC using 100 points. The Plaza doesn't care about points. They want cash. The cash comes from Disney. Let's say they've agreed to pay The Plaza $300 per night for your room or $600. Disney has the use of your 100 points to make this money. They rent a studio at VWL for 7 nights at $175 per night and get $1,225. They give The Plaza $600 and have the remainder to cover the costs of the room and possibly a profit. If they were to rent the studio to another member for points then who would pay the $600 to The Plaza? If they wait until 60 days out to decide that is the time to rent the room they might only be able to get $100 per night. They would then get $700 and have to pay The Plaza $600 and only have $100 to cover Disney’s costs for the room at VWL. When the point charts are set for the next year, a two night stay at The Plaza might go up to 200 points per two nights so that Disney can recoup their costs by renting a studio for 2 weeks at $100 per night.

It's frustrating to see people able to pay cash and even getting discounts but they are really just using member rooms. Many members make reservations and then sell them. What Disney is doing is similar except they aren't doing it right at the 11 month mark.

[cjay]

I'm not a member of the DVC (still determining if this is a good move for me, which is why I check out this particular board). I visit DisneyWorld at lease once a year and always stay at an Epcot resort. Over the past few years I have stayed at the BWV 4 times. Three of the times I stayed in a 1BR, the other in a Grand Villa. I know I booked these rooms more than a year out, so I'm not sure what the advanced booking rule is for cash reservations. In any case, I pay big bucks to stay there (GV for a week was $6,000+). If rules changed and my reservation was not firm due to a policy where the room had to be held for a DVC member, I would not stay there at all. Hope this doesn't happen!

[WebmasterDoc]

You were able to reserve at BWV that far in advance only because it was not yet sold out.

At this time you would not be able to reserve more than 11 months ahead and it is unlikely that you would be able to reserve a GV at all (except possibly on a weekend).

The rooms at these DVC resorts are truly available only to owners (DVC members and the small % owned by Disney). Alll the more reason to belong to DVC.

;)

[jcodespoti]

I guess (correct me if I am wrong) there is no real "cash customers". Everybody stays there on points.

[tsacyensid]

You should try the wait list. It has been rehabbed from what I hear from the oldway. I just spoke with a DVC cast member and was told the computer now takes any cancelled reservations and they go to people on the waitlist so the people who used to try to call to sneak around the wait list can no longer do so.

You have to understand that Boardwalk is very popular and it is almost always booked long before the seven month window.


The developer does retain 4% of the resort and can rent it out or use it for rehab- imagine what our dues would be if they did not retain that amount.

[ILuvDVC]

I book the cruise (Disney Magic) in July, I'm using 774 points for this cruise....them there is a lot of points! I booked this last year. I would think, that at the time I booked the reservation, those points released so many cash nights. Not sure how it works, but since we pay the dues at DVC, I sure hope the rooms I could have booked with those 774 points where rented out for cash! Otherwise....wouldn't DVC have to eat those points...when I say DVC, I mean the DVC Owners, and we would have to make up any loss with our Dues.

So, to me, it makes sense that when you book outside of the DVC Resorts, that the points used would open up cash nights to anyone.

[Joeblack]

Wonderful explanation PamOKW. A DVC manager, or any manager for that purpose, must try to maximize profit by trying to get the most income and by lowering costs. DVC has the right to use the points used by members to make reservations in the DCL, cruises, etc. in the best possible manner to maximize Dinsey's profit.

Waiting until 60 days before a particular date or not guaranteeing a room to a cash-paying customer would be a terrible managerial decision that would only bring a lower bottom line and I bet the DVC manager would be fired.

Members who do not plan ahead might get mad when they don't get the reservation they want, but that is not Disney's fault. DVC should definitely try to get the most out of the points they have available for the reasons PamOKW pointed out in such a detailed and clear manner.

If you bought in the resort you want to stay at most of the time and plan ahead then you will have no problems at all getting the dates you want.