What's your Focus point 'strategy'?

[Bstanley]

I often snap 2 or even 3 quick pictures of a scene when I decide to take a photo. I just got back from a trip where I took a fair number of photos and I noticed that of the 3 pictures of various scenes - 1 will be noticeably out of focus. Many of these out of focus pictures were taken at high shutter speeds and/or at small apertures (f11 perhaps) so in these cases there is a very high probablility that it wasn't me shaking the camera or a DoF issue - the focus was simply off.

I used to blame this on the kit lens and slow focusing, but for this trip I ONLY used my brand new 17-55mm f2.8 IS or my 70-200 f4L IS. Not likely that they were only working correctly part of the time.

So I'm left with the Auto Focus settings on the body (Rebel XS). I'm wondering if I should stop using all 7 auto focus points and just start using the center point alone, 'cause the only idea I'm left with is that the Auto Focus system is jumping from point to point as I bang away with the shutter.

Or is there something else I'm doing so badly that it can make great glass look like it was made from a Coke bottle top?

[zackiedawg]

Well I personally tend to use one central focus point myself, set to the 'local', or movable, spot setting. It stays center, unless I decide to move it around. Since a vast majority of my shots, I know precisely what or where I want to focus, the extra focus points serve no purpose for me. The only time I'll use the matrix/grid/wide focus area is when I'm on continuous focus shooting moving subjects while panning and want the focus system to track the action and refocus as the focal distance changes. That probably represents 2-3% of my photos - so the other 97-98% - it's center focus.

[ukcatfan]

Unless I am shooting something fast moving where I will not have time to re-compose the shot, I always shoot center point. I always have. I do not have very many shots at all where I don't like it due to the focus. There are many other reasons, :rotfl2: but focus is not one. I personally feel that it is the best method.

P.s. I also sometimes pick the focus point other than center for tripod work. I do not let the camera pick though.

[JoeDif]

I use a similar focusing strategy. Single point center focus when in S-AF mode for portraits, landscape, etc. I'll switch over to C-AF using the multi point system when I'm shooting sports or other objects that need to be tracked.

[disneyboy2003]

Yeah, I learned a long time ago to NOT trust the camera to choose what to autofocus on (ie. don't let the camera select the autofocus points). Somehow, the camera NEVER knows what I'm trying to focus on! :sad2:

Because of this, I *always* take control and select my own autofocus point. Most often, it's the center autofocus point, and I will often use the "focus-and-recompose" method to shoot photos.

Sometimes, though, I might select an autofocus point near my subject. For example, if my subject's face is seen in the upper right part of my viewfinder, I'll select the autofocus point closest to that upper right section. I'd still do "focus-and-recompose", but I don't have to recompose as far.

[handicap18]

I never let the camera choose my focus point. I will shift my focus points as I need to, but mostly use the center point. Many times I use the center point to focus on what I want then will lock focus and recompose.

From what I've noticed, letting the camera decide what should be the focus point is one of the biggest problems people have, but seldom think about. They do what you did, think it might be the lens or something else they did. Good catch on your part.

[zackiedawg]

Hey BStanley...seeing a pattern? ;)

[GrillMouster]

I never let the camera select focus points.

Unless there is very shallow depth of field I usually use the center focus point and recompose. The center focus point is usually the most accurate. Luckily Nikon puts several cross-type focus points in my cameras (I don't think Canon puts as many), so I get good focus even when I select another focus point. I also separate the AF from the shutter release button and assign it to the AF-On button on the back of the camera. The button isn't far from where my thumb naturally rests, so holding the button down when I want continuous focus isn't a problem. However, 99% of the time I want to lock focus, so all I have to do is let go of the button.

[photo_chick]

When I use auto focus I toggle through the points to put it where I want. But more often than not I use manual focus.

[bdtracey]

I don't mean to hijack this thread (although I agree that letting the camera pick a focus point is dodgy at best).

What do you guys mean by "focus and recompose"? I'm running an XSi and haven't done this before. Is this when you put your focus point (whichever one is activiated) on your subject and then press the "*" button near where your right thumb tends to go?

I've never done this before but it sure sounds like it's probably something I need to learn.

[ukcatfan]

I don't mean to hijack this thread (although I agree that letting the camera pick a focus point is dodgy at best).

What do you guys mean by "focus and recompose"? I'm running an XSi and haven't done this before. Is this when you put your focus point (whichever one is activiated) on your subject and then press the "*" button near where your right thumb tends to go?

I've never done this before but it sure sounds like it's probably something I need to learn.

I am not familiar with that camera, but that is probably exposure lock, not AF lock. You can probably assign it differently, but most people lock focus with a half press of the shutter.

[disneyboy2003]

I don't mean to hijack this thread (although I agree that letting the camera pick a focus point is dodgy at best).

What do you guys mean by "focus and recompose"? I'm running an XSi and haven't done this before. Is this when you put your focus point (whichever one is activiated) on your subject and then press the "*" button near where your right thumb tends to go?

I've never done this before but it sure sounds like it's probably something I need to learn.

Using my previous example of having my subject located on the upper right section of my viewfinder. For example, if Mickey is standing on the right side (I don't want Mickey to be smack in the middle of my photo), and I want Cinderella's Castle in the background.

The "focus" part of focus-and-recompose means that you pre-focus on Mickey. I use the center focus point and pre-focus on Mickey by pressing and HOLDING the shutter button half-way (NOT all the way). This locks the focus on Mickey.

However, I didn't want Mickey to be smack in the middle of my photo. So I "recompose" by moving the camera so that Mickey is in the position I want for my photo (I wanted Mickey to be on the right). Again, my finger is still holding the shutter button half-way down. The camera's focus is still set on Mickey. This way, the camera won't refocus on Cinderella's Castle in the far background.

Once the photo is set-up the way that I want, I press the shutter button all the way down to take the photo.


This is generally how "focus and recompose" works and is probably the most common way to do it. As mentioned earlier, however, there's another way to pre-focus. Canon has an AF-ON button that you can use to pre-focus (check your camera's user's manual to see how to set this up).

"Focus and recompose" works pretty well. However, if you're using a super shallow depth of focus, like for portraits (ie. using large apertures / small f-numbers), focus-and-recompose might not give you the sharpest sharp photo. I'll let someone else try to explain this concept.

Instead, if you can, pick the autofocus point that's closest to your subject (in the above example, I'd choose an autofocus point that's in the upper right corner, since Mickey's face would be there). That way, you don't move your camera as far while you're "recomposing". You can get a sharper picture that way.

[mom2rtk]

I wanted to check this out and see if I was alone in using mostly the center point focus. Looks like I'm in great company!

When you guys are using a wide open aperture, do you find you need to handle it differently? Does "focus and recompose" stragegy cause your focus to be off? I still have trouble with sharp focus in these situations.

[ukcatfan]

I wanted to check this out and see if I was alone in using mostly the center point focus. Looks like I'm in great company!

When you guys are using a wide open aperture, do you find you need to handle it differently? Does "focus and recompose" stragegy cause your focus to be off? I still have trouble with sharp focus in these situations.

In those tricky situations, it is probably best to go ahead and pick the focus point you want so you don't have to re-compose. I would never let the camera pick it though, because it does not know what you are trying to do.

[mom2rtk]

In those tricky situations, it is probably best to go ahead and pick the focus point you want so you don't have to re-compose. I would never let the camera pick it though, because it does not know what you are trying to do.

Nah, I never let the camera pick. With 3 kids, I figure if I can make the camera do what I want, then it won't bother me as much if the kids don't! :rotfl2:

[disneyboy2003]

I wanted to check this out and see if I was alone in using mostly the center point focus. Looks like I'm in great company!

When you guys are using a wide open aperture, do you find you need to handle it differently? Does "focus and recompose" stragegy cause your focus to be off? I still have trouble with sharp focus in these situations.


Yes, this is the situation I described earlier, where "focus and recompose" might not give you the sharpest photos, especially if you're using the center autofocus point.

Here's an image I stole from the Internet that illustrates the reason why this is so:

http://www.digitalbirdphotography.com/using-camera/recompose.jpg

In part (A), you point the camera straight onto the bird and you prefocus on the bird. Let's say the bird is, I dunno, 5 feet away from the camera when you look straight onto the bird. The camera is now pre-focused at 5 feet.

When you turn the camera to recompose, as seen in part (B), the camera is still pre-focused at 5 feet. However, the bird is no longer at the 5-foot mark in front of the camera. In fact, the bird's plane-of-focus is now at, say, 4.8 feet. So if your camera is still focused at 5 feet, the bird will be somewhat out-of-focus. You don't get the sharpest focus this way.


How do you counteract this? I alluded to one way of addressing this. Instead of always using the center autofocus point, try selecting the focus point that's closest to your subject. This should minimize the difference in plane-of-focus that occurs when you "recompose".

The other thing you can do is to use a smaller aperture (larger f-number), if the situation allows. A smaller aperture gives you a larger depth-of-field (DOF), so a larger area is in-focus. So in the above example, if you were using a smaller aperture and thus got a larger depth-of-field (say, a DOF of 1 feet), the bird would still be in-focus because now the bird falls within the DOF.

Hope that's not too confusing.

[Anewman]

Here's an image I stole from the Internet that illustrates the reason why this is so:

http://www.digitalbirdphotography.com/using-camera/recompose.jpg

In part (A), you point the camera straight onto the bird and you prefocus on the bird. Let's say the bird is, I dunno, 5 feet away from the camera when you look straight onto the bird. The camera is now pre-focused at 5 feet.

When you turn the camera to recompose, as seen in part (B), the camera is still pre-focused at 5 feet. However, the bird is no longer at the 5-foot mark in front of the camera. In fact, the bird's plane-of-focus is now at, say, 4.8 feet. So if your camera is still focused at 5 feet, the bird will be somewhat out-of-focus. You don't get the sharpest focus this way.







I know the math was just for illustration, and I will use the same math.

I do not believe that the front of the lens gets .2' closer to the bird by simply rotating that camera a degree or two.

The point of focus does not run on a perfectly square line infront of the lens, IMO it is in front of the lens on a 360° axis. Might appear to be a perfect line, just as the earth appears to be flat.

[disneyboy2003]

I know the math was just for illustration, and I will use the same math.

I do not believe that the front of the lens gets .2' closer to the bird by simply rotating that camera a degree or two.

The point of focus does not run on a perfectly square line infront of the lens, IMO it is in front of the lens on a 360° axis. Might appear to be a perfect line, just as the earth appears to be flat.

Yeah, this concept is a bit difficult to understand, and it's even more difficult to explain.

You are correct that the camera itself is not 0.2 feet closer to the bird. I think I might have to use some geometry and x- and y-coordinates to try to explain this. Sorry for the upcoming nerdy math...

Let's say that we've got a circle with a radius of 5 feet. My camera and I are at the center of the circle. The bird is located on the circle itself 5 feet away. In fact, the bird can be anywhere ON this circle and it will be in-focus. Since my camera is pre-focused at 5 feet, anything that's 5 feet away from me will be in-focus.

Here's where the nerdy math comes in. Let's imagine that this 5-foot circle is on a graph with x- and y-coordinates. My camera and I are located at (0,0). The bird in part (A) is located at coordinates (-1.4, 4.8).

As an aside: How did I come up with these coordinates? I used Pythagorean Theorem, where c2 = a2 + b2. Let c be the radius of 5 feet. Let b be the distance of 4.8 feet that we made up in part (B). Solving for a, we get 1.4 feet.

So even though this bird in part (A) is 5 feet away from me, it's actually 1.4 feet to my "west", and it is 4.8 feet to my "north".


When I "recompose" by moving my camera, my pre-focus distance is still 5 feet. If there was an object located at coordinates (0, 5) (ie. 5 feet directly "north" of me), then it would be in focus.

However, as we determined earlier, the bird's "y-coordinate" is 4.8 feet. It is 4.8 feet "north" of me. If my camera is pre-focused at 5 feet, this bird runs the risk of being out-of-focus in my photo because I recomposed by moving my camera. Even though the bird didn't change its position and I didn't change my position, the bird is now no longer in my camera's plane-of-focus.


In the end, this all is supposed to illustrate why focus-and-recomposing can sometimes not give you the sharpest image.

Hope I didn't make things even more confusing with all this extra math. I'm sure others can explain this concept better than I did.

[Bstanley]

Hey BStanley...seeing a pattern?

Yes - loud and clear! One point to rule them all :)

Also I should have clarified - the type of picture I'm talking about is really 'the snapshot'. Most of the photos I take on vacation are snapshots taken without too much prep - the camera is in P mode 80% or more of the time, the focus mode is set at 'One Shot' with all seven points left active, shift the ISO, shutter speed or aperture only if needed, adjust the zoom to get a bit wider than I need and bang the shutter button a couple or three times.

When I am trying to take a more composed picture I'll more carefully select the focus point along with all the other settings to achieve whatever it is I want to achieve.

So from now on for snapshots I'll treat focus like ISO - start with just the center focus point selected and select another one only if the conditions demand it.

[mom2rtk]

When I'm "on the fly" on vacation, I use the center point, focus, then recompose. I don't think I've let my camera decide since I figured out who to pick for myself.

[GrillMouster]

...What do you guys mean by "focus and recompose"?
...most people lock focus with a half press of the shutter.

Most cameras (even point-and-shoots and camera phones) are set up to work as ukcatfan and disneyboy2003 explained. On many DSLRs you can disable that function and assign it to other buttons.

[SrisonS]

I also use the center point, using the focus/recompose method. The only time I can't get away with that is when I'm using my Sigma 30mm f/1.4. The dof is just too shallow. Any small movement can throw my focus area off. So I've become very accustomed to changing the focus point on-the-fly; so I can never just recompose.

[Wadecool]

I think I'm getting the focus/recompose theory but my Nikon D3100 has 11 focus points, are you saying I can enable only one of them?

[Anewman]

I think I'm getting the focus/recompose theory but my Nikon D3100 has 11 focus points, are you saying I can enable only one of them?

I have never shot that camera but I am confident you can enable only one.

Many cameras have a more sensitive/accurate center focus point, and on some cameras it is the only one always visible.

[ukcatfan]

I have to say, this is one of the better threads we have had here in a while! :thumbsup2

[handicap18]

I think I'm getting the focus/recompose theory but my Nikon D3100 has 11 focus points, are you saying I can enable only one of them?

Yes you can. And you can then move from one focus point to the other using the the little thumb wheel on the back.

I don't know where in the menu it is, but you want to select Single-Point AF. I believe the default is Auto-area AF. Your other options are Dynamic-area AF (You select the focus point and the D3100 will use surrounding focus points if the subject moves after locking focus) and 3D-tracking: You select the focus point and the D3100 tracks the subject as it moves through the frame.

With my Nikon dSLR's I've always only used Single-point AF.

[Marlton Mom]

It's funny that this topic would come up because I am spending a ton of time reading up on my Nikon D90 focusing system and trying to understand it.

I know I HATED my old Nikon D60 and it's 3 puny focusing points and I was thinking that that was the cause of my focusing problems. Now I'm wondering if it wasn't because I was letting the camera pick the focus points.

I'll summarize what I've learned so far for the Nikon D90 in hopes that others can benefit from the info.

The D90 has 2 focusing control systems. (I'm not talking about Manual focus at all here.)

The first one AUTO FOCUS MODE :thumbsup2- AFM tells the camera WHEN to focus.

The second focus control AUTO FOCUS AREA :) - AFA tells the camera WHERE to FOCUS.

AFM :thumbsup2 WHEN to FOCUS has:

:thumbsup2 AFS = auto focus single = when focus is set it stays that way and the camera will not auto refocus if YOU or the SUBJECT moves.

:thumbsup2 AFC = auto focus CONTINUOUS = camera keeps focusing until shutter release button depressed fully and picture is taken.

:thumbsup2 AFA = combo of above, 1st the camera uses AFS to lock focus but if the camera senses movement of SUBJECT OR PHOTOGRAPHER the focus control defaults to AFC.

AFA WHERE to FOCUS has:

:) Single point- you choose one of 11 D90 focusing points and the camera sticks with that focus bracket no matter what.
:) Dynamic Area- you select focus point BUT....
if Camera set to AFA :thumbsup2 or AFC :thumbsup2 AND subject moves, camera defaults to choosing focus. If camera set to AFS and Dynamic area then it will stay with your original focusing spot even though there is movement (subject or photographer)
:) Auto Area - Camera chooses focus point NOT YOU.
:) 3D Tracking - When in AFA :thumbsup2 or AFC :thumbsup2 focus mode you can select the focus point but movement will cause the camera to refocus based on new measurements. When using AFS the camera will stick with the first focus area and not correct for movement.


I can think of 2 primary shooting situations that I will need to adjust my focus parameters between.

Stationary subject = camera set to AFS-single point (slows shutter release because camera will only take picture when subject is in focus and this could take small amt of time)

Moving subject = camera set to AFA-Dynamic area ( I can select focus point but if Subject/Photographer moves camera overides my focus selection and calculates new focus point.

My only question is how well the focusing system will work snapping pictures of the Disney parades at night utilizing my Moving Subject scenario especially in such potentially tough lighting and movement situations. I guess it's just one of those things I will have to experience and see for myself.

I will be purchasing a 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR AF-S DX Nikkor Autofocus Lens for my next trip to the parks in June. I chose this lens primarily for it's tested sharpness across all ranges as opposed to it's bigger sister the AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II Zoom Lens. I wanted a lens that would cover my range (18 -105) so I wouldn't have to keep swapping out between my 18-55 and 55 to 200 Nikon kit lenses.

My # 1 thing when taking pictures is that I want them to be SHARPLY focused...... so hopefully between understanding the D90's focusing system and using the proper lens I will achieve my goal!

I hope all this helps (somebody)

Marlton Mom

[WilsonFlyer]

Hey Marlton Mom! Got one of those handy-dandy references for my Canon rebel? LOL

[WilsonFlyer]

Yeah, this concept is a bit difficult to understand, and it's even more difficult to explain.

You are correct that the camera itself is not 0.2 feet closer to the bird. I think I might have to use some geometry and x- and y-coordinates to try to explain this. Sorry for the upcoming nerdy math...

Let's say that we've got a circle with a radius of 5 feet. My camera and I are at the center of the circle. The bird is located on the circle itself 5 feet away. In fact, the bird can be anywhere ON this circle and it will be in-focus. Since my camera is pre-focused at 5 feet, anything that's 5 feet away from me will be in-focus.

Here's where the nerdy math comes in. Let's imagine that this 5-foot circle is on a graph with x- and y-coordinates. My camera and I are located at (0,0). The bird in part (A) is located at coordinates (-1.4, 4.8).

As an aside: How did I come up with these coordinates? I used Pythagorean Theorem, where c2 = a2 + b2. Let c be the radius of 5 feet. Let b be the distance of 4.8 feet that we made up in part (B). Solving for a, we get 1.4 feet.

So even though this bird in part (A) is 5 feet away from me, it's actually 1.4 feet to my "west", and it is 4.8 feet to my "north".


When I "recompose" by moving my camera, my pre-focus distance is still 5 feet. If there was an object located at coordinates (0, 5) (ie. 5 feet directly "north" of me), then it would be in focus.

However, as we determined earlier, the bird's "y-coordinate" is 4.8 feet. It is 4.8 feet "north" of me. If my camera is pre-focused at 5 feet, this bird runs the risk of being out-of-focus in my photo because I recomposed by moving my camera. Even though the bird didn't change its position and I didn't change my position, the bird is now no longer in my camera's plane-of-focus.


In the end, this all is supposed to illustrate why focus-and-recomposing can sometimes not give you the sharpest image.

Hope I didn't make things even more confusing with all this extra math. I'm sure others can explain this concept better than I did.

Great post. Great explanation too. I get it. I majored in applied mathematics. LOL

So... How do we fix it? :rotfl2:

I gotta play dumb here (Because I am!). How do you guys deal with these floating focus points when crap's happnin' at a hundred MPH? I don't get it. Maybe I just need to practice?

[Marlton Mom]

Hey Marlton Mom! Got one of those handy-dandy references for my Canon rebel? LOL

KILL me NOW!! I have SUCH a HEADACHE from the "if this, then NOT that" nature of the settings and it took me hours to parcel it all out using different sources of info. One source would mention something important but then fail to explain the other half! Aye yi yi!!

I think the rest of the camera will be relatively simple compared to all the permutations of the focusing system.

What happened to the good old days of manual focus, one ISO and shutter OR Aperture priority??? Um ok, never mind!

~MM

[WilsonFlyer]

I have to say, this is one of the better threads we have had here in a while! :thumbsup2

This is a great thread. I just wish I would have had the nerve to start it but my ego gets in the way sometimes. I bet more of us have this problem than we hear about or than we're willing to admit.

This could easily become on of the forum's most valuable threads. Bring on more information. All help appreciated.

Thanks to the OP for starting it!

[ukcatfan]

This is a great thread. I just wish I would have had the nerve to start it but my ego gets in the way sometimes. I bet more of us have this problem than we hear about or than we're willing to admit.

This could easily become on of the forum's most valuable threads. Bring on more information. All help appreciated.

Thanks to the OP for starting it!

My problem is not knowing how to do it, but actually making myself actually do it! I usually have a wife and kids staring at me saying "HURRY UP!" and I then try to do my best to get away with the fast way instead of the right way :scared1: The kids are starting to get older now though, so hopefully my shooting time is getting longer. :thumbsup2

[mom2rtk]

My problem is not knowing how to do it, but actually making myself actually do it! I usually have a wife and kids staring at me saying "HURRY UP!" and I then try to do my best to get away with the fast way instead of the right way :scared1: The kids are starting to get older now though, so hopefully my shooting time is getting longer. :thumbsup2

That's the same reason I come back from every trip with a series or 2 of photos completely overexposed. I go into a dark ride, crank up the ISO then stop for some photos outdoors with everyone hurrying me along, so I don't notice the flashing shutter speed in the viewfinder.......

[Wadecool]

It's funny that this topic would come up because I am spending a ton of time reading up on my Nikon D90 focusing system and trying to understand it.

I know I HATED my old Nikon D60 and it's 3 puny focusing points and I was thinking that that was the cause of my focusing problems. Now I'm wondering if it wasn't because I was letting the camera pick the focus points.

I'll summarize what I've learned so far for the Nikon D90 in hopes that others can benefit from the info.

The D90 has 2 focusing control systems. (I'm not talking about Manual focus at all here.)

The first one AUTO FOCUS MODE :thumbsup2-
AFM tells the camera WHEN to focus.

The second focus control AUTO FOCUS AREA
:) - AFA tells the camera WHERE to FOCUS.

AFM :thumbsup2 WHEN to FOCUS has:

:thumbsup2 AFS = auto focus single = when focus is
set it stays that way and the camera will not auto refocus if YOU or the
SUBJECT moves.

:thumbsup2 AFC = auto focus CONTINUOUS =
camera keeps focusing until shutter release button depressed fully and picture
is taken.

:thumbsup2 AFA = combo of above, 1st the camera
uses AFS to lock focus but if the camera senses movement of SUBJECT OR PHOTOGRAPHER the focus control defaults to AFC.

AFA WHERE to FOCUS has:

:) Single point- you choose one of 11 D90 focusing points and the camera sticks with that focus bracket no matter what.
:) Dynamic Area- you select focus point BUT.... if Camera set to AFA :thumbsup2 or AFC :thumbsup2 AND subject moves, camera defaults to choosing focus. If camera set to AFS and Dynamic
area then it will stay with your original focusing spot even though there is
movement (subject or photographer)
:) Auto Area - Camera chooses focus point NOT YOU.
:) 3D Tracking - When in AFA :thumbsup2 or AFC
:thumbsup2 focus mode you can select the focus point but movement will cause the camera to refocus based on new measurements. When using
AFS the camera will stick with the first focus area and
not correct for movement.


I can think of 2 primary shooting situations that I will need to adjust my focus parameters between.

Stationary subject = camera set to
AFS-single point (slows shutter release because camera will only take
picture when subject is in focus and this could take small amt of time)

Moving subject = camera set to AFA-
Dynamic area ( I can select focus point but if Subject/Photographer moves
camera overides my focus selection and calculates new focus point.

My only question is how well the focusing system will work snapping pictures of
the Disney parades at night utilizing my Moving
Subject scenario especially in such potentially tough lighting and
movement situations. I guess it's just one of those things I will have to
experience and see for myself.

I will be purchasing a 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR AF-S DX Nikkor Autofocus
Lens for my next trip to the parks in June. I chose this lens primarily for it's
tested sharpness across all ranges as opposed to it's bigger sister the AF-S DX
NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II Zoom Lens. I wanted a lens that
would cover my range (18 -105) so I wouldn't have to keep swapping out between my 18-55 and 55 to 200 Nikon kit lenses.

My # 1 thing when taking pictures is that I want them to be SHARPLY
focused...... so hopefully between understanding the D90's focusing system
and using the proper lens I will achieve my goal!

I hope all this helps (somebody)

Marlton Mom

Thanks for the description. I'm still having trouble understanding "dynamic area" and "3D tracking". It seems like these two modes do the same thing. I am determined to figure this out. :rolleyes1

[handicap18]

This is a great thread. I just wish I would have had the nerve to start it but my ego gets in the way sometimes. I bet more of us have this problem than we hear about or than we're willing to admit.

This could easily become on of the forum's most valuable threads. Bring on more information. All help appreciated.

Thanks to the OP for starting it!

I've been on this board for going on 6 years and this subject doesn't not come up very often, however I completely agree with your statement that I put in Bold.

The focusing system on dSLR's can be VERY confusing, not just for those new to using a dSLR, but even for those who have been using one for years.

I've found that it is VERY difficult to explain in written form because there are 2 aspects to it as Marlton Mom pointed out. when I got my first dSLR I noticed right away that there was something wrong with my focus and realized that it was the camera that was choosing where to focus. I did not like that. I used Nikon's ViewNX software (free with the camera) to figure out my focus issues. There is one part of the software with shows you on your image as you view it on the computer what focus point was used. I found that very helpful when it came to focus points. I could actually see what had happened.

This topic hasn't come up in a while and even so, this is by far the most in depth we've gone with it. I hope it helps a lot of people become for familiar with the camera's and makes taking pictures that much more enjoyable.

Todays camera's are great and can do a lot of things automatically very very well, however, IMO, focusing is not one of them.

[handicap18]

It's funny that this topic would come up because I am spending a ton of time reading up on my Nikon D90 focusing system and trying to understand it.

I know I HATED my old Nikon D60 and it's 3 puny focusing points and I was thinking that that was the cause of my focusing problems. Now I'm wondering if it wasn't because I was letting the camera pick the focus points.

I'll summarize what I've learned so far for the Nikon D90 in hopes that others can benefit from the info.

The D90 has 2 focusing control systems. (I'm not talking about Manual focus at all here.)

The first one AUTO FOCUS MODE :thumbsup2- AFM tells the camera WHEN to focus.

The second focus control AUTO FOCUS AREA :) - AFA tells the camera WHERE to FOCUS.

AFM :thumbsup2 WHEN to FOCUS has:

:thumbsup2 AFS = auto focus single = when focus is set it stays that way and the camera will not auto refocus if YOU or the SUBJECT moves.

:thumbsup2 AFC = auto focus CONTINUOUS = camera keeps focusing until shutter release button depressed fully and picture is taken.

:thumbsup2 AFA = combo of above, 1st the camera uses AFS to lock focus but if the camera senses movement of SUBJECT OR PHOTOGRAPHER the focus control defaults to AFC.

AFA WHERE to FOCUS has:

:) Single point- you choose one of 11 D90 focusing points and the camera sticks with that focus bracket no matter what.
:) Dynamic Area- you select focus point BUT....
if Camera set to AFA :thumbsup2 or AFC :thumbsup2 AND subject moves, camera defaults to choosing focus. If camera set to AFS and Dynamic area then it will stay with your original focusing spot even though there is movement (subject or photographer)
:) Auto Area - Camera chooses focus point NOT YOU.
:) 3D Tracking - When in AFA :thumbsup2 or AFC :thumbsup2 focus mode you can select the focus point but movement will cause the camera to refocus based on new measurements. When using AFS the camera will stick with the first focus area and not correct for movement.


I can think of 2 primary shooting situations that I will need to adjust my focus parameters between.

Stationary subject = camera set to AFS-single point (slows shutter release because camera will only take picture when subject is in focus and this could take small amt of time)

Moving subject = camera set to AFA-Dynamic area ( I can select focus point but if Subject/Photographer moves camera overides my focus selection and calculates new focus point.

My only question is how well the focusing system will work snapping pictures of the Disney parades at night utilizing my Moving Subject scenario especially in such potentially tough lighting and movement situations. I guess it's just one of those things I will have to experience and see for myself.

I will be purchasing a 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR AF-S DX Nikkor Autofocus Lens for my next trip to the parks in June. I chose this lens primarily for it's tested sharpness across all ranges as opposed to it's bigger sister the AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II Zoom Lens. I wanted a lens that would cover my range (18 -105) so I wouldn't have to keep swapping out between my 18-55 and 55 to 200 Nikon kit lenses.

My # 1 thing when taking pictures is that I want them to be SHARPLY focused...... so hopefully between understanding the D90's focusing system and using the proper lens I will achieve my goal!

I hope all this helps (somebody)

Marlton Mom

Excellent information. :thumbsup2:thumbsup2

What I do is ALWAYS leave my camera in Single-Mode AF. With that I will switch between AF-S and AF-C. I mostly use AF-S (candid's, portraits, landscapes, etc...). With this I will either use just the middle focus point and then lock focus and recompose, or switch from one point to the other with the thumb wheel on the back of the camera. With this setting I get a "BEEP" when the point I've chosen is in focus. I use AF-C sometimes when I'm shooting sports or when the kids are running around or riding their bikes or some other type of action. With this I do not get the "BEEP" when the point is focused, however, when it is focused and the subject moves and I move the camera, so long as I keep my shutter half pressed, the camera will keep that subject point in focus.

For me with my camera its easier. The D300 has a switch on the body that easily allows me to switch between AF-S, AF-C and M (though I never use M). On the D90 it only switches between AF & M.

[WilsonFlyer]

I hate to ask but alas, I must.

Has anyone done a paralysis/analysis of the Canon focusing system akin to what Marlton's Mom has done for the Nikon system?

I know it's asking a lot, but if some kind soul could share this kind of information, with this kind of circle drawn around it for the Canon, I know it would certainly help me, and I bet it would help others as well.

TYIA.

[mom2rtk]

I hate to ask but alas, I must.

Has anyone done a paralysis/analysis of the Canon focusing system akin to what Marlton's Mom has done for the Nikon system?

I know it's asking a lot, but if some kind soul could share this kind of information, with this kind of circle drawn around it for the Canon, I know it would certainly help me, and I bet it would help others as well.

TYIA.

Hey, didn't you just get a new Canon? I say send the old one to Marlton Mom as a gift and maybe she'll do the research for all us Canon shooters. Come on over to the dark side MM! :darth:

[Marlton Mom]

Excellent information. :thumbsup2:thumbsup2

What I do is ALWAYS leave my camera in Single-Mode AF. With that I will switch between AF-S and AF-C. I mostly use AF-S (candid's, portraits, landscapes, etc...). With this I will either use just the middle focus point and then lock focus and recompose, or switch from one point to the other with the thumb wheel on the back of the camera. With this setting I get a "BEEP" when the point I've chosen is in focus. I use AF-C sometimes when I'm shooting sports or when the kids are running around or riding their bikes or some other type of action. With this I do not get the "BEEP" when the point is focused, however, when it is focused and the subject moves and I move the camera, so long as I keep my shutter half pressed, the camera will keep that subject point in focus.

For me with my camera its easier. The D300 has a switch on the body that easily allows me to switch between AF-S, AF-C and M (though I never use M). On the D90 it only switches between AF & M.

Thanks for the lovin!

On the D90 there is the AF button on the top of the camera next to the control panel window near the shutter release button.

This sets the Focusing Modes (When to focus) AFS, AFC, AFA

~ For Focus AREA (Single, Dynamic, Auto tracking and 3D) I believe you have to go to the menu and change it there. Now I'm wondering if you can assign a function button to the Focus area but since I know exactly where it is in the menu I think It'd be quicker for me to get there via the menu as opposed to any function assignment.

(Besides, I'm saving those function buttons for "Coffee making" and "bill paying" ;) )

~ MM

[Marlton Mom]

Thanks for the description. I'm still having trouble understanding "dynamic area" and "3D tracking". It seems like these two modes do the same thing. I am determined to figure this out. :rolleyes1

The Nikon Digitutor site has an excellent video that SHOWS you what the heck 3D tracking and dynamic area are.
As we all know, a picture is worth a thousand words and a video is a mind saver!

Here is the link for the D90 digitutor
http://www.nikondigitutor.com/eng/d90/index.shtml

Skip the intro to get to the menu. The menu is on a pull out tab on your left. Choose AF area mode and then watch the video for Dynamic area and 3D tracking which is listed in a progress bar on the bottom of the picture.

Keep in mind that if the camera is set to AFS and Dynamic area then it will stay with your original focusing spot even though there is movement (subject or photographer).

These kind of brain numbing permutations are what make digital photography and it's focusing systems SO FUN!!! :sad2:

~ Marlton Mom

[boBQuincy]

I find it interesting that most of us (who are mostly fairly advanced photographers) tend to use the single center focus point almost all of the time, while the camera manufacturers spend a lot of effort and $$$ to add more focus points (that we, and I imagine many others, do not use). About the only time I use a different focus point is when I am using a tripod and the center point is not aimed at the subject, pretty rare.

One issue of the center point is that when I hand my camera to someone else (like a CM) to take a photo of us, they expect the camera to figure out where to focus. As often as not the center point is aimed at something distant... ;)

Tracking focus can be good for motorsports, wildlife, and stage shows *except* for when someone walks in front of the intended subject. Then the camera quickly tries to lock in on the new subject. Still, I have used tracking focus to good effect for "Festival of the Lion King" and "Beauty and the Beast".

[mom2rtk]

I find it interesting that most of us (who are mostly fairly advanced photographers) tend to use the single center focus point almost all of the time, while the camera manufacturers spend a lot of effort and $$$ to add more focus points (that we, and I imagine many others, do not use). About the only time I use a different focus point is when I am using a tripod and the center point is not aimed at the subject, pretty rare.

One issue of the center point is that when I hand my camera to someone else (like a CM) to take a photo of us, they expect the camera to figure out where to focus. As often as not the center point is aimed at something distant... ;)

Tracking focus can be good for motorsports, wildlife, and stage shows *except* for when someone walks in front of the intended subject. Then the camera quickly tries to lock in on the new subject. Still, I have used tracking focus to good effect for "Festival of the Lion King" and "Beauty and the Beast".

Isn't the center point supposed to be the strongest, or most accurate?

I really wish the photopass people would learn better how to focus their OWN cameras. I was really disappointed with how many pictures were out of focus on our last photopass CD.

Good idea for using the tracking focus on FOTLK. I will try that next time. I have been very happy using it for my track and cross country running son, but hadnt' considered any applications at Disney. I can see this being especially useful in a low light setting when I might be using a pretty wide open aperture.

[Marlton Mom]

Hey, didn't you just get a new Canon? I say send the old one to Marlton Mom as a gift and maybe she'll do the research for all us Canon shooters. Come on over to the dark side MM! :darth:

THAT'S all I need! Can you imagine the brain paralysis involved in moving from 1 camera system to another fast enough not to miss any shots? My family would ABANDON ME!

I've given up on the camera manual. It's so dry and one track and it never seems to synthesize the information all together, which is especially tragic when you have an "If this, then that" type of scenario.

Right now I'm reading David Busch's Nikon D90 book which is getting me 80% of the way there. I'm also relying on the Nikon Digitutor site for the rough spots not covered well by Mr. Busch. (like 3D tracking)

I'm making notes on the especially grisly parts like the Focusing System. I don't think I'm going to have trouble with anything else so I basically skipped ahead and dove in to the focus stuff first. Now I'll go back and read and notate the rest of the book.

Once you understand that you have 3 variables for exposure (ISO, Shutter speed and Aperture) and you comprehend the focusing system, the rest should be a piece of cake if you have basic photography knowledge, at least that's where I think I am.

Next it's off to conquer photography software, for example HDR and Photoshop.

As for the Canon systems I think the best course of action would be to purchase a good book explaining your camera and DIVE IN!

You really become proficient at understanding when you:
See one, Know one, Teach one.

This took me some time to get through but it was totally worth it because now I have an understanding of what the camera is doing and where I need to have it. Now I can experiment with 3D tracking and Dynamic area and experience for myself what their downfalls may be when photographing a Disney Parade, especially one at night.

I think I'm going to post a new thread letting all those new Nikon owners know about the Digitutor site. I think a ton of people are in the weeds with their new Digital SLR's.

Umm.... does CANON have a site like that? If they do then for God's sake share it with those poor Canon souls. :p

~ Marlton Mom

[mom2rtk]

Umm.... does CANON have a site like that? If they do then for God's sake share it with those poor Canon souls. :p

~ Marlton Mom

Ummmmmm......... over here!!! :wave: Anyone???

It probably wouldn't be the same though. We need it translated into MM-ese.

[WilsonFlyer]

Hey, didn't you just get a new Canon? I say send the old one to Marlton Mom as a gift and maybe she'll do the research for all us Canon shooters. Come on over to the dark side MM! :darth:

I have a 6 month-old T2i and a 2 day-old 60D and I can't reliably and consistently focus either one of them and they aren't my first two cowboys in the rodeo. :rotfl2:

[Marlton Mom]

Isn't the center point supposed to be the strongest, or most accurate?

On my Nikon D90, (and probably in SOME of the Canon's) the center focusing point has 2 focus sensors at right angles to each other. They call this the "Cross Type Focus Point". This basically means that image contrast, which is what the camera uses to determine focus is measured in 2 directions (Horizontal and Vertical) versus just one direction that exists with the focus points that are surrounding the center focusing point.

I don't think my D60 had a Cross Type Focus Point so that may have been part of my problem with it....

I really wish the photopass people would learn better how to focus their OWN cameras. I was really disappointed with how many pictures were out of focus on our last photopass CD.

I had so many pictures taken by them where the image was unfocused. I'd bet a million Disney Dollars that their cameras are on Full auto for focus and then the camera seeks out the (Empty) center spot between 2 people posing and THAT'S WHY the images come out blurry!


As for using other focus points I could basically see where I'd choose a focus point other than the center when I'm using a large aperture and my depth of field is tiny AND the subject needs to be off center in the frame.

I have a nifty depth of field calculator on my smart phone which I use extensively when I'm using my 35mm F1.8 lens. This lens is BRUTAL for lack of Depth of field at short distances so it always amazes me when some one says that they will be using this lens on the dark rides.

Ok, I'll stop now.... I have to say all this camera talk is making me happy because I really need to get a handle on the D90 before my trip in 85 days.

Tick, tick, tick, tick,.......
Marlton Mom

[My2Girls66]

Maybe from the days of my 35mm slr's- I always focus and recompose. I don't recall any of them having more than the center focus point. I never even think to use any other focus point.

[disneyboy2003]

Wow, MarltonMom! Great write-up on the Nikon focusing system! And colorful, too! :)

Boy, if you all thought focusing on your current dSLR is confusing, wait 'til you get a hold of the Canon 7D, with 19 focus points! PLUS, there are soooooo many auto-focusing options on it:

Single point autofocus
Spot autofocus
Autofocus point expansion
Zone autofocus
19-point autofocus - the camera "randomly" selects an autofocus point...j/k!


Here's an animated GIF that shows all these different options (from Imaging Resource (http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E7D/E7DA.HTM)):

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E7D/ZURAFP.GIF

Oh, soooo many autofocusing choices! :eek:


It's funny that this topic would come up because I am spending a ton of time reading up on my Nikon D90 focusing system and trying to understand it.

I know I HATED my old Nikon D60 and it's 3 puny focusing points and I was thinking that that was the cause of my focusing problems. Now I'm wondering if it wasn't because I was letting the camera pick the focus points.

I'll summarize what I've learned so far for the Nikon D90 in hopes that others can benefit from the info.

The D90 has 2 focusing control systems. (I'm not talking about Manual focus at all here.)

The first one AUTO FOCUS MODE :thumbsup2- AFM tells the camera WHEN to focus.

The second focus control AUTO FOCUS AREA :) - AFA tells the camera WHERE to FOCUS.

AFM :thumbsup2 WHEN to FOCUS has:

:thumbsup2 AFS = auto focus single = when focus is set it stays that way and the camera will not auto refocus if YOU or the SUBJECT moves.

:thumbsup2 AFC = auto focus CONTINUOUS = camera keeps focusing until shutter release button depressed fully and picture is taken.

:thumbsup2 AFA = combo of above, 1st the camera uses AFS to lock focus but if the camera senses movement of SUBJECT OR PHOTOGRAPHER the focus control defaults to AFC.

AFA WHERE to FOCUS has:

:) Single point- you choose one of 11 D90 focusing points and the camera sticks with that focus bracket no matter what.
:) Dynamic Area- you select focus point BUT....
if Camera set to AFA :thumbsup2 or AFC :thumbsup2 AND subject moves, camera defaults to choosing focus. If camera set to AFS and Dynamic area then it will stay with your original focusing spot even though there is movement (subject or photographer)
:) Auto Area - Camera chooses focus point NOT YOU.
:) 3D Tracking - When in AFA :thumbsup2 or AFC :thumbsup2 focus mode you can select the focus point but movement will cause the camera to refocus based on new measurements. When using AFS the camera will stick with the first focus area and not correct for movement.


I can think of 2 primary shooting situations that I will need to adjust my focus parameters between.

Stationary subject = camera set to AFS-single point (slows shutter release because camera will only take picture when subject is in focus and this could take small amt of time)

Moving subject = camera set to AFA-Dynamic area ( I can select focus point but if Subject/Photographer moves camera overides my focus selection and calculates new focus point.

My only question is how well the focusing system will work snapping pictures of the Disney parades at night utilizing my Moving Subject scenario especially in such potentially tough lighting and movement situations. I guess it's just one of those things I will have to experience and see for myself.

I will be purchasing a 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR AF-S DX Nikkor Autofocus Lens for my next trip to the parks in June. I chose this lens primarily for it's tested sharpness across all ranges as opposed to it's bigger sister the AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II Zoom Lens. I wanted a lens that would cover my range (18 -105) so I wouldn't have to keep swapping out between my 18-55 and 55 to 200 Nikon kit lenses.

My # 1 thing when taking pictures is that I want them to be SHARPLY focused...... so hopefully between understanding the D90's focusing system and using the proper lens I will achieve my goal!

I hope all this helps (somebody)

Marlton Mom

[WilsonFlyer]

Bump.

We git no love. Canon users :( .

[Groucho]

On my Nikon D90, (and probably in SOME of the Canon's) the center focusing point has 2 focus sensors at right angles to each other. They call this the "Cross Type Focus Point". This basically means that image contrast, which is what the camera uses to determine focus is measured in 2 directions (Horizontal and Vertical) versus just one direction that exists with the focus points that are surrounding the center focusing point.
I think that pretty much every DSLR has cross-type AF points in the center, and most in the few surrounding the center, and outside ones are single. In the Pentax world, nearly every one they've ever made has been 9 cross-types and two non-cross (I think vertical only) way off to the sides. Some of the AF systems with a high number of focus points have the majority non-cross-types - for example, the Nikon D7000 has 39 AF points but only 9 cross-type. The 7D does have all 19 cross-type. IMHO the only real-world advantage to these is for continuous autofocus tracking of a very small moving object. Note that most of us are shooting center-only or using just a few off-center. The only time I might want more precise control is on a tripod - and there, I can use liveview and have virtually infinite AF points. Either one - this is a feature that looks good on paper but I don't think makes such a difference in the real world. As long as the center point works well, what more do you need? :thumbsup2

I have a nifty depth of field calculator on my smart phone which I use extensively when I'm using my 35mm F1.8 lens. This lens is BRUTAL for lack of Depth of field at short distances so it always amazes me when some one says that they will be using this lens on the dark rides.
This reminds me of what I just read that Samyang wrote about their about-to-be-released 35mm F1.4 lens... "Due to your recommendations we decided to add the focusing scale..." this is a great feature, almost mandatory IMHO for a prime lens.

35mm F1.8 should be fine for dark rides. The Sigma F1.4 is popular for this, and I've had very good luck with my Pentax 31mm F1.8.

Back to the original question - if you're shooting several shots in one burst and one is out of focus, then you probably have the camera in continuous autofocus mode. If you have it in the normal AF mode, it will only focus once in a burst, and all the photos will focus on the same point as the first one.

As for what do we use... I was center-point-only for a long time, no doubt because of years shooting with a manual-focus film camera where you had to focus and recompose because of the microprism focus assist in the center of the viewfinder. As I moved to the higher-end DSLRs with more controls, including an external selector for the focus type, I eventually began using "select your own"; usually on the center but sometimes to one side to avoid losing focus when recomposing with a small DoF. My current one lets you choose 5-pt or 11-pt for "auto", so I will sometimes put it in 5-pt auto if I'm doing something like taking a picture of a quick-moving child.

[MinnieForMe]

It doesn't take much to confuse me these days! I, too, have kids that don't want to stop for pictures just get them to the action!

So, I'm heading to Disney in a month. Tell me, Pentaxians, when should I move the focus to 11 points (if ever) or should I just continue to leave it on center point?

I'm going to reread the entire thread when I don't have someone saying "mommy, I need water', "mom, where's my homework", and the dogs jumping on me to go out!

[disneyboy2003]

It doesn't take much to confuse me these days! I, too, have kids that don't want to stop for pictures just get them to the action!

So, I'm heading to Disney in a month. Tell me, Pentaxians, when should I move the focus to 11 points (if ever) or should I just continue to leave it on center point?

Let me tell you a story that convinced me to NEVER let the camera select the autofocus point (ie. don't use the 11-point autofocus option).

My wife and I bumped into Edward James Olmos at Disney World, and we were stunned! Mr. Olmos was gracious enough to take a picture with us, so I whipped out my camera (Canon 30D at the time) to take a pictures of him & my wife.

Because I was new to dSLRs and because it was nighttime, I had no clue what camera settings to use, especially since I needed flash. I figured that the camera was smarter than me, so I set it on auto-everything, including letting the camera select the autofocus points.

Even though Mr. Olmos & my wife were just a few feet in front of me, my camera "decided" to focus on the bushes in the far background!!! :sad2: The camera chose bushes in the upper right corner of my viewfinder as the focus point!!!

You'd think that the camera would "know" that my subject is the one that fills the frame, is closer to me, and is on the center autofocus point. Given all this, I'm baffled at why the camera chose to focus on those far away bushes!

Of course, I didn't realize all this until I got back to the hotel room to look at the photo. Ever since then, I have vowed NEVER to allow my dSLR to "guess" the autofocus point for me. :mad:

From then on, I have ALWAYS set my camera to focus ONLY on 1 autofocus point, and for a great majority of time, it's always the center autofocus point.

[MinnieForMe]

DisneyBoy:

Thank you for sharing that story! It makes me feel so much better as my 9 year old received an award from the Governor a month ago. I had the 11 point focus on, took a picture of my son and the governor and it didn't focus on them. I feel like a dummy more than I want too with my DSLR!

Although, I finally learned to run it with good results on TV mode. I'm loving my clear, action shots. Now, I'll change it to one point focus and hopefully I'll get a picture of the basketball player and not the ball in focus. LOL.

Michelle

[handicap18]

Maybe from the days of my 35mm slr's- I always focus and recompose. I don't recall any of them having more than the center focus point. I never even think to use any other focus point.

I never thought of that, but that makes a lot of sense. In high school I learned on a Canon AE1 Program and that had manual focus with just a single center focus point. Same with my dad's old Pentax which I used a lot in high school before I got my own slr.

[handicap18]

I'll post a few examples. These are 2 pictures I took back in 2006 just after I got my first dSLR, Nikon D50. It has 5 focus points. When I first got it I only used the default settings which were set up for the camera to choose the focus point...

http://www.kylegendron.com/Other/Misc/Screen-shot-2011-03-18-at/1220051111_sx5Bx-L.png

http://www.kylegendron.com/Other/Misc/Screen-shot-2011-03-18-at/1220051135_bBh2r-L.png


There actually have been a few times where I have used the 21 point focus option on my D300 (it actually goes up to 51 points :scared1:). Usually when I'm in the picture, but right now I can't find any. If I come across any that show more than 1 focus point I'll post them.

[denise]

best thread I've read in a long time. Thank you...I have learned so much...

[jenseib]

HELP!!! I am having a heck of a time getting my DD's face focused. I use the center point most times, but sometimes will use the tip point. But no matter what I seem to have a not so focused face. I do mainly shoot with a wide open aperture. I guess I should maybe close it up a bit?
Here are some shots for reference on how her face is kind of blurred.

This picture would be awesome if it had her face as the focal point...which I thought I was doing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/jenseib/basic%20photos/sidesmile-1.jpg

And this one I took just the other night. All the pics I took seem to just have a blah face, not details.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/jenseib/basic%20photos/project1.jpg

I don't seem to have this problem with objects, just faces.

[Marlton Mom]

HELP!!! I am having a heck of a time getting my DD's face focused. I use the center point most times, but sometimes will use the tip point. But no matter what I seem to have a not so focused face. I do mainly shoot with a wide open aperture. I guess I should maybe close it up a bit?
Here are some shots for reference on how her face is kind of blurred.

This picture would be awesome if it had her face as the focal point...which I thought I was doing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/jenseib/basic%20photos/sidesmile-1.jpg

And this one I took just the other night. All the pics I took seem to just have a blah face, not details.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/jenseib/basic%20photos/project1.jpg

I don't seem to have this problem with objects, just faces.

We need more information in order to help you.

What kind of camera are you using?
What kind of lens?
What are the settings that you are using?

Generally speaking the wider open you have the aperture open (which means the smaller f stop numbers like 2.8, 3.5 etc) the narrower your depth of field will be. Depth of field refers to a zone of clarity and focus that changes with each F stop and focal (subject) distance.

This site hopefully will explain the concepts more eloquently than I can.
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of-field.htm

Good luck cracking your camera problems and I hope that you have a fantastic trip!

Marlton Mom

[jenseib]

We need more information in order to help you.

What kind of camera are you using?
What kind of lens?
What are the settings that you are using?

Generally speaking the wider open you have the aperture open (which means the smaller f stop numbers like 2.8, 3.5 etc) the narrower your depth of field will be. Depth of field refers to a zone of clarity and focus that changes with each F stop and focal (subject) distance.

This site hopefully will explain the concepts more eloquently than I can.
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of-field.htm

Good luck cracking your camera problems and I hope that you have a fantastic trip!

Marlton Mom

Canon 50D is what I am using. I use a couple of lenses. I think my best is the 50mm, but that one is not my favorite as I am either too close or too far from the object. But picture wise it takes the best. I probably need to use a smaller aperture to start with.

Which settings do you mean?

[Marlton Mom]

Canon 50D is what I am using. I use a couple of lenses. I think my best is the 50mm, but that one is not my favorite as I am either too close or too far from the object. But picture wise it takes the best. I probably need to use a smaller aperture to start with.

Which settings do you mean?

Do you use auto mode, manual mode, one of the program modes, like sports? Amongst other things this is what I meant by settings.

I am not really a Canon person so hopefully one of the Canon people will come to your rescue with more specific info.

Let's hear it Canonites! Can you help out Jenseib???

~MM

[jenseib]

Do you use auto mode, manual mode, one of the program modes, like sports? Amongst other things this is what I meant by settings.

I am not really a Canon person so hopefully one of the Canon people will come to your rescue with more specific info.

Let's hear it Canonites! Can you help out Jenseib???

~MM

I usually use manual

[ukcatfan]

That sounds like a small DOF problem. A typical 50mm is around f/1.4-1.8 wide open. That is going to give you a tiny area in focus even at over ten feet from the focus point. I typically like to stick with f/2.8 as a minimum when shooting a face with a 50mm. It is also going to be sharper at that aperture.

[jenseib]

That sounds like a small DOF problem. A typical 50mm is around f/1.4-1.8 wide open. That is going to give you a tiny area in focus even at over ten feet from the focus point. I typically like to stick with f/2.8 as a minimum when shooting a face with a 50mm. It is also going to be sharper at that aperture.

I actually don't have the problem with my 50mm, but I don't shoot with that much. I shoot with my Tamron 28-80 mostly. I usually have it wide open though...being 3.5 I beleive when at 28mm. I just can't seem to get the face sharp. And thats the part I want focused. Even though I think I am focusing there, it always seems to have something..like her shoulders..in focus. So closing the aperture a bit may help then?

[WilsonFlyer]

I would definately set the aperture to 5.6-7 just to see if it makes a difference. Try a couple of shots on manual and a couple on auto and see if that helps you narrow it down.

It could be a backfocus problem but that seems to be thrown out there so much these days, that I'm starting to believe it's not near as common as most people want to believe it is.

You are overiding your AF point and setting it manually, right? I think you said you were. I have long since given up on letting my Canons pick my AF point for me. I can't tell you how many shots I missed and how frustrated I was with my cameras before I finally learned that the camera just wasn't as good at deciding what I wanted to focus on as I was!

If you're fortunate enough to have a lens that supports constant manual focus, you can set auto-focus to a point and let the camera get it close quickly and then tack it in manually just before you shoot. This is what I do most of the time.

Another good test is the battery test.

1) Get 3-5 batteries. D's work best, IMO but any size can work.
2) Stand them up 1 after the other from front to back on a table-top, 2 inches apart, and half sticking out from the one before it when viewed from the front. Staggered, in other words.
3) Set your aperture to various settings from open to more closed
4) Take a shot, preferrably level with the table, focused on each battery from front to back, document your settings for the shot, and review your results

I've probably taken a few hundred shots doing this at various apertures and shutter speeds. I've probably learned more about my cameras and how they behave by doing this, than any other single thing I've ever done, and it all started out as a focusing exercise. Now I do it just to teach myself things. The batteries don't complain while I'm learning! :rotfl2:

[jenseib]

I would definately set the aperture to 5.6-7 just to see if it makes a difference. Try a couple of shots on manual and a couple on auto and see if that helps you narrow it down.

It could be a backfocus problem but that seems to be thrown out there so much these days, that I'm starting to believe it's not near as common as most people want to believe it is.

You are overiding your AF point and setting it manually, right? I think you said you were. I have long since given up on letting my Canons pick my AF point for me. I can't tell you how many shots I missed and how frustrated I was with my cameras before I finally learned that the camera just wasn't as good at deciding what I wanted to focus on as I was!

If you're fortunate enough to have a lens that supports constant manual focus, you can set auto-focus to a point and let the camera get it close quickly and then tack it in manually just before you shoot. This is what I do most of the time.

Another good test is the battery test.

1) Get 3-5 batteries. D's work best, IMO but any size can work.
2) Stand them up 1 after the other from front to back on a table-top, 2 inches apart, and half sticking out from the one before it when viewed from the front. Staggered, in other words.
3) Set your aperture to various settings from open to more closed
4) Take a shot, preferrably level with the table, focused on each battery from front to back, document your settings for the shot, and review your results

I've probably taken a few hundred shots doing this at various apertures and shutter speeds. I've probably learned more about my cameras and how they behave by doing this, than any other single thing I've ever done, and it all started out as a focusing excercise. Now I do it just to teach myself things. The batteries don't complain while I'm learning! :rotfl2:

Thanks. I think I will go play with batterries in a few minutes now. :rotfl2:

[mom2rtk]

Jen, I really think it's either a depth of field issue or a lens issue. That's not to say that your lens is bad. As others have said, the depth of field is pretty shallow when wide open.

Additionally, lenses all have a "sweet spot", a point at which they perform their best, providing the sharpest picture possible. All lenses are different, but most don't perform their best wide open. I would definitely stop it down a bit and see what you get. So definitely do the battery test, but since faces are an issue, also try a couple shots of Claire at different apertures and see what you get.

I hope you'll post your results back here!

[jenseib]

Jen, I really think it's either a depth of field issue or a lens issue. That's not to say that your lens is bad. As others have said, the depth of field is pretty shallow when wide open.

Additionally, lenses all have a "sweet spot", a point at which they perform their best, providing the sharpest picture possible. All lenses are different, but most don't perform their best wide open. I would definitely stop it down a bit and see what you get. So definitely do the battery test, but since faces are an issue, also try a couple shots of Claire at different apertures and see what you get.

I hope you'll post your results back here!

I don't think it's the lens, because I have one other lens that does it too. But I don't like that lens much anyways. ( Ia ctually have two others that I don' use much that do that and then the telephoto one)

I do wonder if the other lens is bad though. It does alot of that trying to focus thing, especially if the battery is low. I have had that probelm with that one from day one. I wrote canon and they told me nothing was wrong with it. :confused3

I did try to have Claire let me take some of her yesterday...but the mood wasn't with her. :laughing:

[mom2rtk]

I don't think it's the lens, because I have one other lens that does it too. But I don't like that lens much anyways. ( Ia ctually have two others that I don' use much that do that and then the telephoto one)

I do wonder if the other lens is bad though. It does alot of that trying to focus thing, especially if the battery is low. I have had that probelm with that one from day one. I wrote canon and they told me nothing was wrong with it. :confused3

I did try to have Claire let me take some of her yesterday...but the mood wasn't with her. :laughing:

Maybe the batteries will cooperate better than Claire? :rotfl2:

Try it stopped down and see if it helps.

Some cameras have microadjustments you can make to the focus. Maybe someone will chime in and say if the 50D does. I have the T2i and it does not.

[jenseib]

Maybe the batteries will cooperate better than Claire? :rotfl2:

Try it stopped down and see if it helps.

Some cameras have microadjustments you can make to the focus. Maybe someone will chime in and say if the 50D does. I have the T2i and it does not.

I'll probablly tell the batteries to behave too! :rotfl:

[mom2rtk]

I'll probablly tell the batteries to behave too! :rotfl:

Heck, at my house, even the batteries would probably argue! :lmao:

[WilsonFlyer]

One of the great things about the 50D is that it does have micro-adjustment on the focus to adjust and correct for individual lenses, as I understand it.

Unfortunately, I've never had a camera that has this feature. Why they left it out of the 60D I will never understand. :confused3

[jenseib]

One of the great things about the 50D is that it does have micro-adjustment on the focus to adjust and correct for individual lenses, as I understand it.

Unfortunately, I've never had a camera that has this feature. Why they left it out of the 60D I will never understand. :confused3

How do you do this micro adjusting?

[WilsonFlyer]

How do you do this micro adjusting?

I have no idea since my cameras have never had it.

One of the best, if not THE best resources on the net for everything Canon is:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/

Thanks JimboJimbo for turning me on to this site.

Take a look in the cameras and/or lenses forum there and do some searches. That's the best advice I have.

[jenseib]

I have no idea since my cameras have never had it.

One of the best, if not THE best resources on the net for everything Canon is:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/

Thanks JimboJimbo for turning me on to this site.

Take a look in the cameras and/or lenses forum there and do some searches. That's the best advice I have.

Thanks..but with a trip in 4 days. I wil lhave to wait til lI get back to look that over.
Ok, I have figured out how to actually make the adjustment on the camera...I just don't get how you know if you have the RIGHT adjustment. I see patterns, etc to take pics of, but what is my goal on these patterns? then I have no clue if I need to move it forward or backwards.

It talks about distance moving on your screen? What is that? I don;t have anything on my screen that shows distance

[WilsonFlyer]

Thanks..but with a trip in 4 days. I wil lhave to wait til lI get back to look that over.
Ok, I have figured out how to actually make the adjustment on the camera...I just don't get how you know if you have the RIGHT adjustment. I see patterns, etc to take pics of, but what is my goal on these patterns? then I have no clue if I need to move it forward or backwards.

It talks about distance moving on your screen? What is that? I don;t have anything on my screen that shows distance

Let me stress again, I don't know if that's your problem. Have you done the battery test yet? You should do that FIRST, IMHO, to see where you are.

To repeat again, I'm just trying to help. I have never even SEEN the micro adjustment screens. I've just read about them. I offered you the best resource(s) I have and know about. Maybe somebody else will come along that actually has this feature and knows.

Personally, and even though I wish I had it, I think this micro adjustment is highly overrated and is often used a crutch when real focusing problems can't be figured out.

The "Battery Test" will tell the tale if you're willing to do it and take the time to do it right.

[boBQuincy]

Thanks..but with a trip in 4 days. I wil lhave to wait til lI get back to look that over.
Ok, I have figured out how to actually make the adjustment on the camera...I just don't get how you know if you have the RIGHT adjustment. I see patterns, etc to take pics of, but what is my goal on these patterns? then I have no clue if I need to move it forward or backwards.

It talks about distance moving on your screen? What is that? I don;t have anything on my screen that shows distance

One of the problems with microadjustment is that many people do not know how to do it correctly, and even then it is usually at a distance where we seldom take photos. Since you like to take portraits then the camera & lens should be adjusted for a typical portrait distance, maybe 6-10'. Adjusting the setup for 1-2' a (typical microadjust distance) may mean it is not in sharp focus at other distances.

My guess (and it is only a guess) is Canon removed MA from the 60D because of all the trouble it caused for typical users of the 50D. The 7D is targeted at a different group and maybe Canon assumes they know more (maybe a bad assumption too).

Here is a very good article on "soft" lenses, how they get that way, and what we can do about it:
[url[http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/03/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-facts[/url]

[Marlton Mom]

Here is a very good article on "soft" lenses, how they get that way, and what we can do about it:
[url[http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/03/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-facts[/url]

Thanks for the Link Bob! This was an excellent article and it will go a long way towards restoring my sanity when I become aware of the differences in my equipment. I had figured out previously that my AF-S Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G DX Lens didn't focus as sharp on my D90 put performed well on my D60. It bothered me but I just decided to deal with it and not return the lens. Now I'll have a better perspective about what is going on and I'll work it as best as I'm able.


Marlton Mom

[handicap18]

HELP!!! I am having a heck of a time getting my DD's face focused. I use the center point most times, but sometimes will use the tip point. But no matter what I seem to have a not so focused face. I do mainly shoot with a wide open aperture. I guess I should maybe close it up a bit?
Here are some shots for reference on how her face is kind of blurred.

This picture would be awesome if it had her face as the focal point...which I thought I was doing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/jenseib/basic%20photos/sidesmile-1.jpg

And this one I took just the other night. All the pics I took seem to just have a blah face, not details.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/jenseib/basic%20photos/project1.jpg

I don't seem to have this problem with objects, just faces.


With the software your using on your computer does it have an option to show you which focus point actually was used? If so check that. (I posted 2 examples on page 3 of this thread).

Looking at the first picture here the area around her shoulder is in focus. If indeed you did have your focus point on her face, then maybe the lens need to be calibrated. Many lenses can have front or back focus issues. I've noticed this issue more with 3rd party lenses (Sigma and Tamron).

I obviously have jumped in here kind of late and just read though the other posts quickly so I don't know if this had been mentioned or not.

You can easily test for back/front focus. There are a number of web sites out there with a simple google search.

I did see that DOF was mentioned. When shooting wide open it is very important that your focus be spot on and the closer you are to your subject the less room you have to miss.

Is is possible that you though you focused on her faced, the recomposed your shot and didn't keep your finger half pressing the shutter and the camera refocused?

How far from the subject were you? Lenses do have a minimum focusing distance and that can throw off your focus.

[Marlton Mom]

With the software your using on your computer does it have an option to show you which focus point actually was used? If so check that. (I posted 2 examples on page 3 of this thread).

Looking at the first picture here the area around her shoulder is in focus. If indeed you did have your focus point on her face, then maybe the lens need to be calibrated. Many lenses can have front or back focus issues. I've noticed this issue more with 3rd party lenses (Sigma and Tamron).

I obviously have jumped in here kind of late and just read though the other posts quickly so I don't know if this had been mentioned or not.

You can easily test for back/front focus. There are a number of web sites out there with a simple google search.

I did see that DOF was mentioned. When shooting wide open it is very important that your focus be spot on and the closer you are to your subject the less room you have to miss.

Is is possible that you though you focused on her faced, the recomposed your shot and didn't keep your finger half pressing the shutter and the camera refocused?

How far from the subject were you? Lenses do have a minimum focusing distance and that can throw off your focus.

Kids are also famous for moving and when you have a really shallow depth of field, that can be Murder on your clairity.

~MM

[jenseib]

Thanks for all the info.
I do you use photoshop...not sure if I can find the focus point on that...I do KNOW that I either shot it with the top center point or midddle point selected though. Thats why I don't get why it does her shoulder so focused. It might be the lens then. It seems to focus there the most I find in most of my pictures.
I have a lot of reading to do and so much more to learn.

[WilsonFlyer]

Excellent read.

http://www.canonrumors.com/tech-articles/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths/

[Marlton Mom]

Thanks for all the info.
I do you use photoshop...not sure if I can find the focus point on that...I do KNOW that I either shot it with the top center point or midddle point selected though. Thats why I don't get why it does her shoulder so focused. It might be the lens then. It seems to focus there the most I find in most of my pictures.
I have a lot of reading to do and so much more to learn.

On my NIKON D90 there is an auto focus mode that let's you choose the focus bracket of your choice BUT if YOU OR THE SUBJECT Moves, the camera chooses the auto focus point. Is it possible that your Canon is set to something like this?

~MM

[disneyboy2003]

Thanks for all the info.
I do you use photoshop...not sure if I can find the focus point on that...I do KNOW that I either shot it with the top center point or midddle point selected though. Thats why I don't get why it does her shoulder so focused. It might be the lens then. It seems to focus there the most I find in most of my pictures.
I have a lot of reading to do and so much more to learn.

I don't think Photoshop can show you what focus point was used in a photo.

If you're using Canon, your camera came with a software program called "Digital Photo Professional" (or, DPP), which is Canon's software to read their RAW files. Because Canon RAW files are proprietary, some photographers might argue that DPP is the best program available to read Canon's own RAW files. DPP is FREE, and should have come with your camera.

Sure, you can use Lightroom, Photoshop, Aperture, etc. to read your camera's RAW files. But these companies "reverse-engineer" RAW files (ex. Canon's RAW files, Nikon's RAW files, Sony's RAW files, etc), so it is theoretically possible that not all 100% of the data in a RAW file is presented in Lightroom, Photoshop, Aperture, etc.

For example, you can actually use Canon's DPP to view the focus point you used for a picture. However, this information is not available in Lightroom / Photoshop / Aperture. Also, I'm not sure if this is only for RAW photos, or whether you can view the focus point in a JPEG photo, too.

You can also use DPP to organize your photos and make edits / adjustments to your photos, like you would in Lightroom, Aperture, or Adobe Camera Raw.

However, I think many people (including myself) prefer using Lightroom or Aperture because it feels easier to use.

[disneyboy2003]

Thanks..but with a trip in 4 days. I wil lhave to wait til lI get back to look that over.
Ok, I have figured out how to actually make the adjustment on the camera...I just don't get how you know if you have the RIGHT adjustment. I see patterns, etc to take pics of, but what is my goal on these patterns? then I have no clue if I need to move it forward or backwards.

It talks about distance moving on your screen? What is that? I don;t have anything on my screen that shows distance

There are micro-focus test images available on the Internet that you can download and print on your own printer.

Here's an example I found on the Internet of someone testing his camera's focus (link (http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/photography-beginners-forum-photo-gallery/155365-50ds-micro-adjustment-af-useful-you-bet.html)):

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/Photo%20Forums/IMG_4874.jpg

You take this test image, and focus on the center black line. If your lens & camera are focusing properly, then everything on that line should be in focus.

If you're really anal and do a lot of "pixel peeping" in the example above, you'll see that the "This text should be perfectly in focus" line is actually slightly out-of-focus.

In fact, the camera/lens was actually front-focusing, meaning it was actually focusing a couple millimeters in front of where it was supposed to focus. You can see that a little more of the numbers in front of the target are in focus, compared to fewer numbers behind the target.

The user went ahead and did a microfocus adjustment on his camera, and got this result:

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/Photo%20Forums/IMG_4875.jpg

Here are some focus test charts you can download from the Internet:

http://focustestchart.com/focus21.pdf
http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/focus-chart


Or, if you'd rather pay money for a focus test chart (and who DOESN'T like spending extra money on photography?), you can buy a product called LensAlign for $80-$250 (link (http://www.whibalhost.com/lensalign/) to LensAlign).

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/images-85/lensalign1.jpg

Microfocus adjustment is a LOT of trial and error. Hope that helps. :)

[WilsonFlyer]

Pandora's box has been opened. :rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Take some advice from a friend. Run away from these charts and alignment templates. Run Forest, RUN!

They will drive you crazy. You will hate your equipment. You will hate your life. You will hate your dog. It will all be your mama's fault. :rotfl:

Been here. Done this. Got the bloody t-shirt.

Just learn to use your camera the best you can and enjoy it and understand it has limitations. Most can be compensated for and some simply cannot. Most photography problems lie behind the viewfinder and not with the equipment.

I think if we'd all come to grip with those three things above, we'd all enjoy this hobby a lot more, myself included.

[disneyboy2003]

HELP!!! I am having a heck of a time getting my DD's face focused. I use the center point most times, but sometimes will use the tip point. But no matter what I seem to have a not so focused face. I do mainly shoot with a wide open aperture. I guess I should maybe close it up a bit?
Here are some shots for reference on how her face is kind of blurred.

This picture would be awesome if it had her face as the focal point...which I thought I was doing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/jenseib/basic%20photos/sidesmile-1.jpg

I couldn't view the EXIF data for this image. Can you post the shutter speed, aperture, and ISO for this image?

A few ideas have already been mentioned. Make sure you're weren't too close to your subject. All lenses have a minimum focusing distance, meaning that the lens can't focus on anything closer than this minimum distance. I'm not sure if this was the case with your photo.

Others mentioned microfocus adjustment. I'm not sure if this is the case either, especially since you mention that all your other non-people photos are nice & sharp. You should certainly do one of those focus tests using a focus test chart, just to double-check & make sure your camera isn't front-focusing or back-focusing. At least you can quickly rule this out.

If you're only using the center focus point, I wonder if your focus point was place right on your daughter's cheek. If that's the case, it might be really hard for your camera to determine the correct distance for focus.

Autofocus works by detecting an area of contrast. If you have a black line right next to a white line, the camera easily uses this sharp contrast to autofocus an image.

Here's an example of what the camera sees and how it autofocuses (from this link (http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/autofocus3.htm)). Here are a series of black and white lines. Your camera initially sees that everything is blurry.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autofocus-rect1.jpg

However, the camera sees that there are several areas of high contrast (ex. black right next to white, or dark right next to bright). The camera uses this sharp contrast area to help it autofocus:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autofocus-rect2.jpg

What if you have a scene with ZERO contrast? For example, try taking a picture of ONLY the blue sky without clouds, or a picture of your blank white wall, or a picture of a completely snow-covered field. There is no area of contrast because the entire scene is all the same tone. So there's nothing for the camera to focus on.


How does this all apply to your image? Well, your daughter's cheek has very little change in contrast, so the camera can't figure out how to focus here. Instead, the closest area that has a sharp change in contrast is your daughter's black collar. Here, there's a sharp line of contrast from the black collar to the light skin. In fact, the collar appears to be the sharpest part of the photo. So I wonder if that's what your camera actually focused on.

In general, try to put the focus point on your subject's eye(s). As viewers, we're all drawn to a subject's eyes, and we want to see the eyes tack sharp. Oftentimes, there's a nice area of contrast around the eyes, so the camera can use this area to autofocus. You may have to focus on the eyes first, and then recompose the picture (ie. the "focus and recompose" method described in detail ad nauseum earlier in this thread ;)).


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/jenseib/basic%20photos/project1.jpg

I don't seem to have this problem with objects, just faces.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't quite see the focusing problem with this photo. It could be that the photo is small enough that it looks fine to me...similar to seeing how all your photos look nice and sharp on the tiny LCD screen in the back of your camera.

Can you post a larger version of this picture? Maybe we can do some pixel-peeping and figure out what the focus issue is.

However, I see that you used an aperture of f/4.0 in this photo. I think that should have been a good enough aperture to get your daughter's face in-focus. Plus, it appears that you were at a good enough distance from your daughter, too.

Remember that the "depth of field" depends on (1) aperture, (2) distance from your subject, (3) the size of your camera's sensor, and maybe (4) the focal length on your lens. If you're really nerdy, you can use a depth of field calculator, many of which are found online (such as this one (http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html)).

I plugged in your numbers, based on the EXIF data in your photo:

aperture: f/4.0
distance from subject: I guessed 6 feet?
camera: Canon 50D, which has a "crop sensor"
focal length: 28mm


Based on the above numbers, your total depth of field should have been about 2.2 feet: the range spans from 0.9 feet in front of the subject to 1.3 feet behind the subject. Anything within this 2.2-feet range should have been in-focus. So that should have been enough range for your daughter to be in-focus, assuming you focused directly on your daughter. Again, it's a little harder to tell from a smaller-sized photo.

Hope that helps. Sorry to ramble on-and-on-and-on-and...

[disneyboy2003]

Pandora's box has been opened. :rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Take some advice from a friend. Run away from these charts and alignment templates. Run Forest, RUN!

They will drive you crazy. You will hate your equipment. You will hate your life. You will hate your dog. It will all be your mama's fault. :rotfl:

Been here. Done this. Got the bloody t-shirt.

Just learn to use your camera the best you can and enjoy it and understand it has limitations. Most can be compensated for and some simply cannot. Most photography problems lie behind the viewfinder and not with the equipment.

I think if we'd all come to grip with those three things above, we'd all enjoy this hobby a lot more, myself included.


:lmao: Yes, microfocus adjustment can CONSUME you, especially if you've got a very very very VERY anal personality.

My wife shakes her head and walks away, every time I whip out the focus test chart. :sad2:

[jenseib]

I couldn't view the EXIF data for this image. Can you post the shutter speed, aperture, and ISO for this image?

I'm not sure if I can find it. It no longer is on my computer. The only way I know how to find that info is in bridge. I guess I could try and find the CD it's on.

A few ideas have already been mentioned. Make sure you're weren't too close to your subject. All lenses have a minimum focusing distance, meaning that the lens can't focus on anything closer than this minimum distance. I'm not sure if this was the case with your photo.

Others mentioned microfocus adjustment. I'm not sure if this is the case either, especially since you mention that all your other non-people photos are nice & sharp. You should certainly do one of those focus tests using a focus test chart, just to double-check & make sure your camera isn't front-focusing or back-focusing. At least you can quickly rule this out.

If you're only using the center focus point, I wonder if your focus point was place right on your daughter's cheek. If that's the case, it might be really hard for your camera to determine the correct distance for focus.

Autofocus works by detecting an area of contrast. If you have a black line right next to a white line, the camera easily uses this sharp contrast to autofocus an image.

Here's an example of what the camera sees and how it autofocuses (from this link (http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/autofocus3.htm)). Here are a series of black and white lines. Your camera initially sees that everything is blurry.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autofocus-rect1.jpg

However, the camera sees that there are several areas of high contrast (ex. black right next to white, or dark right next to bright). The camera uses this sharp contrast area to help it autofocus:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autofocus-rect2.jpg

What if you have a scene with ZERO contrast? For example, try taking a picture of ONLY the blue sky without clouds, or a picture of your blank white wall, or a picture of a completely snow-covered field. There is no area of contrast because the entire scene is all the same tone. So there's nothing for the camera to focus on.


How does this all apply to your image? Well, your daughter's cheek has very little change in contrast, so the camera can't figure out how to focus here. Instead, the closest area that has a sharp change in contrast is your daughter's black collar. Here, there's a sharp line of contrast from the black collar to the light skin. In fact, the collar appears to be the sharpest part of the photo. So I wonder if that's what your camera actually focused on.

In general, try to put the focus point on your subject's eye(s). As viewers, we're all drawn to a subject's eyes, and we want to see the eyes tack sharp. Oftentimes, there's a nice area of contrast around the eyes, so the camera can use this area to autofocus. You may have to focus on the eyes first, and then recompose the picture (ie. the "focus and recompose" method described in detail ad nauseum earlier in this thread ;)).




Maybe it's just me, but I can't quite see the focusing problem with this photo. It could be that the photo is small enough that it looks fine to me...similar to seeing how all your photos look nice and sharp on the tiny LCD screen in the back of your camera.

I think the problem with this to me is that is is so soft withour editing and then when I sharpened it her face still seemed too soft to me. But I know I don't have a top quality lens either and that could be my problem more than anything.

Can you post a larger version of this picture? Maybe we can do some pixel-peeping and figure out what the focus issue is.

However, I see that you used an aperture of f/4.0 in this photo. I think that should have been a good enough aperture to get your daughter's face in-focus. Plus, it appears that you were at a good enough distance from your daughter, too.

Remember that the "depth of field" depends on (1) aperture, (2) distance from your subject, (3) the size of your camera's sensor, and maybe (4) the focal length on your lens. If you're really nerdy, you can use a depth of field calculator, many of which are found online (such as this one (http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html)).

I plugged in your numbers, based on the EXIF data in your photo:

aperture: f/4.0
distance from subject: I guessed 6 feet?
camera: Canon 50D, which has a "crop sensor"
focal length: 28mm


Based on the above numbers, your total depth of field should have been about 2.2 feet: the range spans from 0.9 feet in front of the subject to 1.3 feet behind the subject. Anything within this 2.2-feet range should have been in-focus. So that should have been enough range for your daughter to be in-focus, assuming you focused directly on your daughter. Again, it's a little harder to tell from a smaller-sized photo.

Hope that helps. Sorry to ramble on-and-on-and-on-and...

Thanks for the info. Also part of the problem is that I just don't have enough time to "practice" and read up on things like I should. I will get some great pictures and go at it for awhile and then put the camera down for a few months...and my brain seems to forget everything I had learned.

[jenseib]

One other problem...I am always confused which AF mode to use. I generally keep it in AI Focus, should I try One shot or AI Servo instead?

[Marlton Mom]

One other problem...I am always confused which AF mode to use. I generally keep it in AI Focus, should I try One shot or AI Servo instead?

If you are having focusing problems it's time to read up on the focusing modes offered by your camera and learn about what each one does. This will give you the best understanding of what is going on and why. Then you can choose different strategies and options that will help you to remedy the problem.

You still have time before your trip. Break out that manual and read up!

Good luck!

Marlton Mom

[boBQuincy]

Remember that the "depth of field" depends on (1) aperture, (2) distance from your subject, (3) the size of your camera's sensor, and maybe (4) the focal length on your lens.

Depth of field also depends on a very subjective measurement, the circle of confusion (aptly named but not for the obvious reason). The COC was formulated based on a certain size print viewed from a certain distance after a certain amount of enlargement. Where this may break down is that we now often view at a much larger magnification since it is so easy, thus the accepted formula for COC may be outdated. With modern lenses and cameras (and sharpening software) our expectations for sharpness may also be higher.

In other words, depth of field is not what it used to be and following the typical DOF calculators/markings may leave us with an image that we find to be too soft.

[WilsonFlyer]

Depth of field also depends on a very subjective measurement, the circle of confusion (aptly named but not for the obvious reason). The COC was formulated based on a certain size print viewed from a certain distance after a certain amount of enlargement. Where this may break down is that we now often view at a much larger magnification since it is so easy, thus the accepted formula for COC may be outdated. With modern lenses and cameras (and sharpening software) our expectations for sharpness may also be higher.

In other words, depth of field is not what it used to be and following the typical DOF calculators/markings may leave us with an image that we find to be too soft.

Wow Bob. I never thought about that but it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for posting that. COC really doesn't corrolate well with the old 35mm film/print days, yet I have always continued to think about it that way.

Great post!

[jenseib]

If you are having focusing problems it's time to read up on the focusing modes offered by your camera and learn about what each one does. This will give you the best understanding of what is going on and why. Then you can choose different strategies and options that will help you to remedy the problem.

You still have time before your trip. Break out that manual and read up!

Good luck!

Marlton Mom

I read it over and over. Just read it Friday too!

[Marlton Mom]

I read it over and over. Just read it Friday too!

Try this:

From http://www.learnslr.com/cs-canon-50d-guide-faq/11-50d-basic-features

AI Servo / AI AutoFocus / One Shot
A quick press of the Focus Mode button on the top of your 50D will allow you to use the top dial to quickly change from One shot to AI Focus, or AI Servo mode.

1. One Shot: Canon’s default focus mode, the camera will not take a photo until the camera locks onto its subject matter. Once the red light in the view finder lights, the photo can be taken. Appropriate for non-moving subject matter, portraits, landscapes and other NON-moving subjects.

2. AI Servo: The 50D constantly refocuses attempting to calculate the moving subjects next movement and based on that prediction focus the lens on the subject. This mode should be used when shooting sports, moving objects, or any type of image where the subject matter is constantly changing location. This mode can be combined with continuous shooting to capture 6.3 frames per second while following a subject. If the auto focus is able to perform adequately, you will get 6.3 frames per second in focus while your subject matter is moving.

3. AI Auto focus: Mode where the 50D determines whether One Shot or AI Servo should be used. In general this is not a good mode to be in, and I avoid it at all times. Its quite quick and easy to switch between one shot and AI Servo – do that when switching is necessary.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm thinking for the narrow depth of field pictures that you are taking (Either by virtue of a large aperture, shallow DOF due to shortened distance of subject) you should be in one shot focus mode.

Do the Canon people agree with the Nikon Mom???

I'd really like to help Jenseib get a handle on her problem before she leaves on her trip....

Good luck!

Marlton Mom

[mom2rtk]

Try this:

From http://www.learnslr.com/cs-canon-50d-guide-faq/11-50d-basic-features

AI Servo / AI AutoFocus / One Shot
A quick press of the Focus Mode button on the top of your 50D will allow you to use the top dial to quickly change from One shot to AI Focus, or AI Servo mode.

1. One Shot: Canon’s default focus mode, the camera will not take a photo until the camera locks onto its subject matter. Once the red light in the view finder lights, the photo can be taken. Appropriate for non-moving subject matter, portraits, landscapes and other NON-moving subjects.

2. AI Servo: The 50D constantly refocuses attempting to calculate the moving subjects next movement and based on that prediction focus the lens on the subject. This mode should be used when shooting sports, moving objects, or any type of image where the subject matter is constantly changing location. This mode can be combined with continuous shooting to capture 6.3 frames per second while following a subject. If the auto focus is able to perform adequately, you will get 6.3 frames per second in focus while your subject matter is moving.

3. AI Auto focus: Mode where the 50D determines whether One Shot or AI Servo should be used. In general this is not a good mode to be in, and I avoid it at all times. Its quite quick and easy to switch between one shot and AI Servo – do that when switching is necessary.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm thinking for the narrow depth of field pictures that you are taking (Either by virtue of a large aperture, shallow DOF due to shortened distance of subject) you should be in one shot focus mode.

Do the Canon people agree with the Nikon Mom???

I'd really like to help Jenseib get a handle on her problem before she leaves on her trip....

Good luck!

Marlton Mom

Look at you trying to help out us Canonites............ What a sweetie! :love: Not at all what I had been told to expect from you Nikonians! :rotfl2:

I did try to get WilsonFlyer to send you a free Canon. Did it get there yet? :lmao:

I generally stay in one shot mode unless I'm shooting sports. I'll be curious to see if any of the Canon experts handle it any differently.

[Marlton Mom]

I did try to get WilsonFlyer to send you a free Canon. Did it get there yet? :lmao:.

Nope! He skunked me! :sad2:
AND he had promised me a EOS 5D Mark II Digital Camera too....

He is totally out of my will now. In fact I'm not even going to bequest him my Nikon manuals or my super valuable "Download AOL for free" disks/coaster set.
Nada.
Zippo.
Nuttin!

~MM

PS. I'll still be waiting by the door tomorrow for the UPS guy, if only to get a glimpse of those gams in those lovely brown shorts! (Hubba , Hubba!!! ) :wave2:

[WilsonFlyer]

Nope! He skunked me! :sad2:
AND he had promised me a EOS 5D Mark II Digital Camera too....

He is totally out of my will now. In fact I'm not even going to bequest him my Nikon manuals or my super valuable "Download AOL for free" disks/coaster set.
Nada.
Zippo.
Nuttin!

~MM

PS. I'll still be waiting by the door tomorrow for the UPS guy, if only to get a glimpse of those gams in those lovely brown shorts! (Hubba , Hubba!!! ) :wave2:

WELL! If you're going to have THAT kind of attitude! :rotfl2:

5D Mk II? Well I never!

I issued a callback with UPS. At least now you won't have to worry about being bothered by having to learn the 1DS. It was probably beyond you anyway! :lmao::lmao::lmao:

[WilsonFlyer]

Since I got my 60D, I'm actually starting to play with AI Servo mode a lot more. I'm seeing that it suits my style a lot more.

As with a lot of other things, I tend to assume that the "defaults" will always be best unless I know what I'm doing. It's generally a good rule of thmb, but as I have progressed and gotten more comfortable with my camera, AI Servo seems to be a much better catch-all for me.

I'd play with it some. I even like it for static scenes.

[mom2rtk]

Nope! He skunked me! :sad2:
AND he had promised me a EOS 5D Mark II Digital Camera too....

He is totally out of my will now. In fact I'm not even going to bequest him my Nikon manuals or my super valuable "Download AOL for free" disks/coaster set.
Nada.
Zippo.
Nuttin!

~MM

PS. I'll still be waiting by the door tomorrow for the UPS guy, if only to get a glimpse of those gams in those lovely brown shorts! (Hubba , Hubba!!! ) :wave2:

WELL! If you're going to have THAT kind of attitude! :rotfl2:

5D Mk II? Well I never!

I issued a callback with UPS. At least now you won't have to worry about being bothered by having to learn the 1DS. It was probably beyond you anyway! :lmao::lmao::lmao:

And I was going to send her one of those fancy long white lenses. Guess I'll have to cancel that! :rotfl:

[WilsonFlyer]

And I was going to send her one of those fancy long white lenses. Guess I'll have to cancel that! :rotfl:

Oh Maaaaaaaaan! :(

[JoeDif]

Adorama TV has posted a video on using AF points on Nikon & Canon cameras.

It looks like us ugly stepchildren (Olympus, Pentax, Sony, etc.) have to fend for ourselves :rotfl:

Here (http://www.adorama.com/alc/) is the link

[Marlton Mom]

WELL! If you're going to have THAT kind of attitude! :rotfl2:
5D Mk II? Well I never!
I issued a callback with UPS. At least now you won't have to worry about being bothered by having to learn the 1DS. It was probably beyond you anyway! :lmao::lmao::lmao:

1DS, is that the camera they put in those Nintendo hand held game systems? The one where you can make your face all squishy??? BooYAH!

And I was going to send her one of those fancy long white lenses. Guess I'll have to cancel that! :rotfl:

Oh I know those lenses! Those are the ones that you have to wear white shoes and a white belt with and you can't use them after labor day...
Nikon doesn't have them.... :thumbsup2

Nope I'll just have to suffer along with my lil old Nikon and it's 'easy to understand' focusing system.

Oh look there's ANOTHER NIKON TUTORIAL! Gotta run....

;)

~MM

[mom2rtk]

1DS, is that the camera they put in those Nintendo hand held game systems? The one where you can make your face all squishy??? BooYAH!



Oh I know those lenses! Those are the ones that you have to wear white shoes and a white belt with and you can't use them after labor day...
Nikon doesn't have them.... :thumbsup2

Nope I'll just have to suffer along with my lil old Nikon and it's 'easy to understand' focusing system.

Oh look there's ANOTHER NIKON TUTORIAL! Gotta run....

;)

~MM

LOL! :rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

You know, I'm going to have to stop hanging out here. I hate when this brand loyalty stuff turns ugly like this!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[Marlton Mom]

LOL! :rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

You know, I'm going to have to stop hanging out here. I hate when this brand loyalty stuff turns ugly like this!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Well us Nikon and Canon people have to stick together (especially in the humidity) because the Pentaxians are just waiting in a dark alley to jump us and run off with our cameras!

~MM
PS. RED! Seriously, a RED camera!!!! :scared1:

[Marlton Mom]

Well us Nikon and Canon people have to stick together (especially in the humidity) because the Pentaxians are just waiting in a dark alley to jump us and run off with our cameras!

~MM
PS. RED! Seriously, a RED camera!!!! :scared1:

(Oh look, now I'm QUOTING myself!!) :sad2:

Ok, I know, I know.... NOW the Pentax people are gonna start trash talking camera brands. (they are way too polite anyway!) Just remember to take all this with a grain of salt and keep in mind that us Nikonians are "equal opportunity brand offenders"

~MM

[jenseib]

Try this:

From http://www.learnslr.com/cs-canon-50d-guide-faq/11-50d-basic-features

AI Servo / AI AutoFocus / One Shot
A quick press of the Focus Mode button on the top of your 50D will allow you to use the top dial to quickly change from One shot to AI Focus, or AI Servo mode.

1. One Shot: Canon’s default focus mode, the camera will not take a photo until the camera locks onto its subject matter. Once the red light in the view finder lights, the photo can be taken. Appropriate for non-moving subject matter, portraits, landscapes and other NON-moving subjects.

2. AI Servo: The 50D constantly refocuses attempting to calculate the moving subjects next movement and based on that prediction focus the lens on the subject. This mode should be used when shooting sports, moving objects, or any type of image where the subject matter is constantly changing location. This mode can be combined with continuous shooting to capture 6.3 frames per second while following a subject. If the auto focus is able to perform adequately, you will get 6.3 frames per second in focus while your subject matter is moving.

3. AI Auto focus: Mode where the 50D determines whether One Shot or AI Servo should be used. In general this is not a good mode to be in, and I avoid it at all times. Its quite quick and easy to switch between one shot and AI Servo – do that when switching is necessary.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm thinking for the narrow depth of field pictures that you are taking (Either by virtue of a large aperture, shallow DOF due to shortened distance of subject) you should be in one shot focus mode.

Do the Canon people agree with the Nikon Mom???

I'd really like to help Jenseib get a handle on her problem before she leaves on her trip....

Good luck!

Marlton Mom

Thanks. for some reason, I read somewhere that AI Focus was the one I should do and have stuck with that over the years. I will give One shot a try more now.

Thanks for all the help to everyone.

[WilsonFlyer]

Nikon people are like Ford people. They just stay mad all the time. Wazzup wit that?!?! :rotfl2:

[Groucho]

Well us Nikon and Canon people have to stick together (especially in the humidity) because the Pentaxians are just waiting in a dark alley to jump us and run off with our cameras!

~MM
PS. RED! Seriously, a RED camera!!!! :scared1:
They also make it in GREEN, to match the envious color on the faces of the C/N users when they see how awesome the camera is. :rotfl2:

[MinnieForMe]

Thank you all for the laughs. I'm loving this thread and I really need a laugh as we have a no school day today because of snow. Someone forgot to tell Mother Nature that it's April 1st.

Although, maybe, I'll finally get outside to photograph a snowflake. LOL.