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smurph
01-14-2011, 11:59 AM
Heard on the news this morning that CCL, NCL, and RCCL are pulling ships out of LA and southern Californina. The NCL ship being relocated to Tampa. Reasons cited was economic impact and unrest in Mexico. As Wonder heads west what does it mean for it's business? More cruisers because of lack of alternatives? Or suffer the same as the others?

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-1014-mexico-cruise-ships-20110114,0,3995368.story

JohnO
01-14-2011, 12:03 PM
Cant say I blame them with more than 30 thousand homicides in Mexico in less than two years.

loveysbydesign
01-14-2011, 12:05 PM
Looks like DCL scared the rest of them away-lol!

woody73
01-14-2011, 12:11 PM
I thought the Wonder is leaving the Port of Los Angeles in April for the Alaska cruises.

Woody

HallsofVA
01-14-2011, 12:12 PM
I posted a related article yesterday.

Course it's all the way back on page 4, since last update was before noon yesterday!

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2633014

jkrislc
01-14-2011, 12:18 PM
On the radio news yesterday, they reported that half as many ships were sailing out of California this year as last year. One of the problems is the state is in an economic crisis and secondly the itineraries aren't very good. Honestly, how many times can you do the Mexican Riviera? I always wondered why they didn't head north and do a coastal cruise with Victoria as the foreign port stop. I'd love port stops in Santa Barbara, San Francisco, and Seattle or Portland. Probably not warm enough for winter months.

While I don't believe the cruise lines were losing money, they weren't getting what the could compared to other embarkation ports and were having to discount their cruises too much. That said, I think Disney will fare well given their reputation and they'll benefit from the reduced number of berths. Part of the problem was that there were just too many cruise ships sailing out of California. Not that long ago, you only had three ships doing the MR, then NCL, HAL, and others started doing them as well. In addition, Carnival and RCI started sailing shorter itineraries out of LA and San Diego, which ultimately flooded the market; they simply had too much supply and not enough demand.

Given the reduced number of berths, which will increase demand, and Disney's unique product, I think this is a win-win for DCL. In addition, it will help bolster Disneyland by attracting pre/post-cruise visits.

smurph
01-14-2011, 12:21 PM
Wondering if ridership on the Wonder will similarly fall, and if so, what DCL might do with regards to itineraries if they feel the need to adjust. And how cruisers currently booked will respond to such changes.

smurph
01-14-2011, 12:23 PM
On the radio news yesterday, they reported that half as many ships were sailing out of California this year as last year. One of the problems is the state is in an economic crisis and secondly the itineraries aren't very good. Honestly, how many times can you do the Mexican Riviera? I always wondered why they didn't head north and do a coastal cruise with Victoria as the foreign port stop. I'd love port stops in Santa Barbara, San Francisco, and Seattle or Portland. Probably not warm enough for winter months.

While I don't believe the cruise lines were losing money, they weren't getting what the could compared to other embarkation ports and were having to discount their cruises too much. That said, I think Disney will fare well given their reputation and they'll benefit from the reduced number of berths. Part of the problem was that there were just too many cruise ships sailing out of California. Not that long ago, you only had three ships doing the MR, then NCL, HAL, and others started doing them as well. In addition, Carnival and RCI started sailing shorter itineraries out of LA and San Diego, which ultimately flooded the market; they simply had too much supply and not enough demand.

Given the reduced number of berths, which will increase demand, and Disney's unique product, I think this is a win-win for DCL. In addition, it will help bolster Disneyland by attracting pre/post-cruise visits.

I think you may be right about DCL gaining due to attrition. On the other hand, the threat (however remote) of Mexican violence is the same regardless of the ship you are on. Apprehension isn't likely based on carrier.

MCourtney
01-14-2011, 12:26 PM
Good news for Tampa however. We definitely need more variety here. :thumbsup2

mommy2allyandaveri
01-14-2011, 12:28 PM
Wondering if ridership on the Wonder will similarly fall, and if so, what DCL might do with regards to itineraries if they feel the need to adjust. And how cruisers currently booked will respond to such changes.

Great question, as we are getting ready to book our March 2012 on the Wonder. That is a long time, a lot could change between now and then. If they change it to a port that is farther away I'm not sure we could afford the flights.

Also, do you think since there are fewer cruises available it will increase the demand for the Mex. Riviera on DCL and therefore increase the price?

smurph
01-14-2011, 12:37 PM
Great question, as we are getting ready to book our March 2012 on the Wonder. That is a long time, a lot could change between now and then. If they change it to a port that is farther away I'm not sure we could afford the flights.

Also, do you think since there are fewer cruises available it will increase the demand for the Mex. Riviera on DCL and therefore increase the price?

I believe Disney will follow the "what the market will bear" method of pricing. All things being equal, if demand stays at current levels with fewer alternatives Disney should benefit and I would think pricing would rise. If the Mexican violence continues to get a lot of coverage in the main stream media or additional high profile events occur, demand might drop for all cruises with Mexican destinations. I would then expect that pricing would fall. Or they could alternatively modify itineraries. It all depends on what pricing model DCL can devise that maximizes their profit.

woody73
01-14-2011, 12:38 PM
I always wondered why they didn't head north and do a coastal cruise with Victoria as the foreign port stop. I'd love port stops in Santa Barbara, San Francisco, and Seattle or Portland.
In 2009, during the swine flu epidemic, many cruises to the Mexican Riviera were diverted north.

After an Alaska cruise in June 2009, we happened to be across from the Canada Place port in Vancouver BC, and saw cruise ships from L.A.

Woody

NancyIL
01-14-2011, 12:39 PM
I wanted to go on a 7-night cruise for my birthday last April, and I looked at all of Royal Caribbean's offerings. Mariner of the Seas out of Los Angeles was less expensive than any of RCI's 7-night Caribbean cruises out of Florida, so that's the cruise ship I booked. I spent my birthday week at WDW, then flew to CA and went on a Mexican Riviera cruise. When the cruise ended, I went to Disneyland for 2 days! :woohoo:

woody73
01-14-2011, 12:44 PM
. . . Mariner of the Seas out of Los Angeles was less expensive than any of RCI's 7-night Caribbean cruises out of Florida
I really like the Mariner of the Seas. Sadly she is leaving the Port of L.A. for the last time this Sunday, January 16, on a repositioning cruise.

Woody

smurph
01-14-2011, 01:12 PM
I'm really curious if anyone has either actually changed, considered changing, or not booked a MR cruise due to the unrest? And if DCL changed ports/itineraries or even pricing would that alter your plans or intentions?

HallsofVA
01-14-2011, 01:15 PM
Wondering if ridership on the Wonder will similarly fall, and if so, what DCL might do with regards to itineraries if they feel the need to adjust. And how cruisers currently booked will respond to such changes.

We've seen them struggling to fill the MR cruises given the KSF offer that went out a few months ago. Even when the MR cruises first came available, we'd booked the 10nt sailing over Easter for what seemed like a reasonable price (other than the deposit required at the time) of under $5k for 4 people. So they've adjusted prices, and have since adapted through promotions and other offers to try to fill the ship.

dorkeemn
01-14-2011, 01:16 PM
We were looking at the MR cruise for spring break of 12 - due to the fact that it fits with school break and flights to CA will probably be cheaper than flights at the same time to FL. My DD (13) said "I don't want to die in Mexico!" end of that discussion.

mommy2allyandaveri
01-14-2011, 01:20 PM
The violence hasn't changed our vacation plans. We don't have to get off the ship. I do however, have reservations about traveling to anywhere in Mexico and spending a week there. It seems that the violence is moving into the touresty areas.

kaseyC
01-14-2011, 01:20 PM
Didn't DCL already have to discount the MR cruises? Wasn't there a Kids Sail Free offer because the itinerary wasn't selling well? So maybe they will benefit from the other cruise lines pulling out.

mkmommy
01-14-2011, 01:34 PM
I was surprised that DCL went with 7 day MR out of LA, thought 3/4 day land/ sea cruises would be an easier sell.

I would not be surprised if the rest of 2012 for the Wonder is different and think changing plans played a big part in only a portion of 2012 being released.

woody73
01-14-2011, 01:36 PM
The violence hasn't changed our vacation plans. We don't have to get off the ship.
Smart idea to stay on the ship in unsafe areas.

This reminds me of the armed robbery of Disney Wonder passengers on the Segway Tour in Nassau (http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/post/2009/12/cruise-ship-passenger-recounts-terror-of-attack-during-nassau-excursion/620003320/1).

On subsequent cruises, many guests chose simply to stay onboard at Nassau.

Woody

Beachmum
01-14-2011, 01:55 PM
The violence in Mexico, although horrible, really hasn't hit any of the west coast tourist towns. Yes, that could change, but right now those places are very, very safe.

As I've posted a few times on these boards, we've been many times with our two girls (who are currently nearly six and eight years) and never had any worries. Granted, we live in LA, but it's pretty safe here too despite what you hear and see on TV.

Also, although some of the violence is against innocents, a lot of it is gang versus gang. The advice for Mexico is the same for any place: Keep aware of your surroundings and go stray from the tourist areas.

Disney1976
01-14-2011, 02:06 PM
The violence in Mexico, although horrible, really hasn't hit any of the west coast tourist towns. Yes, that could change, but right now those places are very, very safe.

As I've posted a few times on these boards, we've been many times with our two girls (who are currently nearly six and eight years) and never had any worries. Granted, we live in LA, but it's pretty safe here too despite what you hear and see on TV.

Also, although some of the violence is against innocents, a lot of it is gang versus gang. The advice for Mexico is the same for any place: Keep aware of your surroundings and go stray from the tourist areas.

Well said. And as someone else may have pointed out, the ports where these ships dock depend quite a bit on tourists, so they are going to do what they can to keep people safe. I think especially if you are doing a DCL or other cruise line excursion you'll be very safe, and even if you decide to venture out on your own, so long as you do so in a manner that keeps you in the popular tourist areas, and you don't stray too far from the mainstream, you'll be fine.

I'm more afraid of traveling into certain parts of Orlando then I am Mexico.

I'll be on the March 6th cruise to the MR and have absolutely no fear about getting off the ship in every port.

justmestace
01-14-2011, 02:07 PM
I agree with Beachmum. We just got back from what was my 5th MR cruise and cruise passengers are totally safe in the port towns.

As to how many times can you cruise the MR? I'll keep going as long as the price is right. It's only an hour flight to San Diego or LA, one-way ticket can be as little as $49.....
Any day on a cruise to anywhere, is better than a day spent working!

Ltl Mermaid
01-14-2011, 02:09 PM
We are doing 2 guided excursions (one in PV and the other in Cabo). Other than that I am staying on the ship completely. My desire to go on DCL is more about the ship anyways, so I am fine with staying onboard a large portion of the time.

I wanted to do Alaska but the CM pricing for MR was great and I don't have to pay for flights. it was too good to pass up BUT I will not be wandering off on my own at ALL just to be on the safe side!

justmestace
01-14-2011, 02:10 PM
The port of San Diego just built an extra cruise terminal, which really helped the day that 3 ships were in port. But we did hear that it was a risky gamble to build it, since it was projected that the cruising industry might be taking a hit.

smurph
01-14-2011, 03:20 PM
Well said. And as someone else may have pointed out, the ports where these ships dock depend quite a bit on tourists, so they are going to do what they can to keep people safe. I think especially if you are doing a DCL or other cruise line excursion you'll be very safe, and even if you decide to venture out on your own, so long as you do so in a manner that keeps you in the popular tourist areas, and you don't stray too far from the mainstream, you'll be fine.

I'm more afraid of traveling into certain parts of Orlando then I am Mexico.

I'll be on the March 6th cruise to the MR and have absolutely no fear about getting off the ship in every port.

There's no doubt that the mainstream media fan the flames of hysteria and throw gas on them sometimes. Nor am I uncomfortable with the risk of those prt areas. If anything, I hope the prices come down and/or other incentives are offered. But DCL may be doing the smart :teacher: thing for their bottom line by moving in where the options are slim.

disneymagicgirl
01-14-2011, 04:16 PM
I'm really curious if anyone has either actually changed, considered changing, or not booked a MR cruise due to the unrest? And if DCL changed ports/itineraries or even pricing would that alter your plans or intentions?

I have not changed my plans...I have just planned to avoid Mexico. I don't even consider those itineraries.:sad2:

drparoo
01-14-2011, 04:26 PM
We have a MR cruise planned this year and we plan to take full advantage of excursions in ALL ports!! Ole!!

oviattfamily
01-14-2011, 04:35 PM
Didn't DCL already have to discount the MR cruises? Wasn't there a Kids Sail Free offer because the itinerary wasn't selling well? So maybe they will benefit from the other cruise lines pulling out.

we were lucky enough to benefit from that promotion! leaving on the 30th of January.:cool1:
DH is a detective and receives a lot of updates on the violence in Mexico. Definitely some scary stuff going on.

BelleMulan
01-14-2011, 04:52 PM
The port of San Diego just built an extra cruise terminal, which really helped the day that 3 ships were in port. But we did hear that it was a risky gamble to build it, since it was projected that the cruising industry might be taking a hit.

Yep, and this morning's paper just had an article about Carnival pulling out of San Diego completely. Pretty sad.

Vegaslover
01-14-2011, 05:01 PM
Didn't DCL already have to discount the MR cruises? Wasn't there a Kids Sail Free offer because the itinerary wasn't selling well? So maybe they will benefit from the other cruise lines pulling out.

There was also a kids sail free promo in 2009 for the 3 and 4 day caribbean cruises. I don't think it had anything to do with violence in Mexico. :rotfl2:

justmestace
01-14-2011, 05:24 PM
Yep, and this morning's paper just had an article about Carnival pulling out of San Diego completely. Pretty sad.


That's too bad. We just had an awesome aft wrap-around suite for a really great price. Doesn't really matter where the ship goes with a balcony and room like that.

lmhall2000
01-14-2011, 05:56 PM
The violence in Mexico, although horrible, really hasn't hit any of the west coast tourist towns. Yes, that could change, but right now those places are very, very safe.

As I've posted a few times on these boards, we've been many times with our two girls (who are currently nearly six and eight years) and never had any worries. Granted, we live in LA, but it's pretty safe here too despite what you hear and see on TV.

Also, although some of the violence is against innocents, a lot of it is gang versus gang. The advice for Mexico is the same for any place: Keep aware of your surroundings and go stray from the tourist areas.

Part of the problem is that Mexico (the govt) is not reporting many of the instances until it gets out with irrefutable proof! 30 bodies were found in the past week in Acapulco..this is a west coast tourist town, one of the biggest in fact. Thank goodness the Disney ship is not going there...but Mazatlan has had more murders the first month of 2010 than the whole preceding year, so you can't say it hasn't hit the west coast.

The number of corporate kidnappings from these 'outfits' has increased immensely and the govt is not reporting it...look at how many corporations are pulling out or refusing to put plants there b/c they can't afford security for their executives and their families...it is bad.

That said, I am sailing to Mexico in March, I'll get off in Cabo...using a local guide to somewhere close to the ship...and will probably walk off the ship in PV to see local vendors and that is it...dh does not want us taking a taxi anywhere...the risk may be less than me getting hit by an errant vehicle crossing a local streeth, but when traveling with your kids and kids of others, you get as conservative as you can. For our family, the cruise ship offers so much fun, relaxation we just want to soak it up...we did the Med last year and LOVED the ports, but we were soooo tired after 10 hour port days! :) We just want relaxation on the seas, Disney has that covered! :)

I will add it makes me less nervous about my niece's flight back to Boston at 10:55am...on a Sunday, less ships, the easier it'll be for us to get through customs! :)

Tara

jkrislc
01-14-2011, 06:38 PM
I think you may be right about DCL gaining due to attrition. On the other hand, the threat (however remote) of Mexican violence is the same regardless of the ship you are on. Apprehension isn't likely based on carrier.

Except it was reported today that tourism in Mexico was up 8% in 2010 despite the media accounts of the increasing violence. While I've heard many people state they don't want to travel to Mexico as a result of the violence, the numbers suggest that more are doing so rather than not.

jkrislc
01-14-2011, 06:44 PM
In 2009, during the swine flu epidemic, many cruises to the Mexican Riviera were diverted north.

After an Alaska cruise in June 2009, we happened to be across from the Canada Place port in Vancouver BC, and saw cruise ships from L.A.

Woody

I do remember that and we were about to book a family cruise because of the change; unfortunately, the only week we could go was the first week they returned to Mexico, which we've done before, so didn't end up going.

SoCal Susie
01-15-2011, 01:24 AM
I thought that maybe DCL had offered the KSF promo (which we jumped on immediately) because they wanted to promote the Wonder moving out West? Just my thought...

As a cruiser (have been on 7 previous cruises on CCL and RCCL), I can say that part of the reason the cruiselines are moving out of the west could be because of the reported violence in Mexico but more so because the Mexican Riviera just isn't as attractive as, let's say, some of the Caribbean islands. As a person that has sailed the Caribbean on 3 different cruises, if you gave me the option of the MR or a Caribbean cruise, I would take a Caribbean cruise any day. Water is warmer, beaches are nicer, just overall more eye-appealing beaches and scenery. For example, Cozumel, IMO, is much more beautiful than Mazatlan. And yes, I've sailed the MR twice already and have been on land vacations at all three ports.

My other thought is that people can be blind to the every day violence that happens in their own town. I know that everyday I watch the news I hear of someone getting shot, killed, etc etc and somehow or another people tend to not "remember" the violence that happens every day. We live in a society in which just going to the grocery store can be dangerous but how do we forget that so easily? Just curious....

Either way....we decided to book the MR cruise on DCL for the primary reasons being that 1. It was a great deal. 2. It is DCL (and yes, we are Disney freaks) 3. We didn't have to pay for airfare for 4. We will be cautious as we are on a daily basis, aware of our surroundings and know to not put ourselves in shady situations. At the end of the day...40 something days away and we CANNOT wait to sail on the Wonder going to the MR! :cool1: