Question About Flash Diffusers

[WDWFigment]

I already have this diffuser: http://cgi.ebay.com/Bounce-Flash-Diffuser-Nikon-Speedlite-SB-600-SB-800-/220722968033?pt=Camera_Flash_Accessories&hash=item33641d35e1

I used it quite a bit at WDW in December when shooting both outdoors and in. I think it did a pretty good job making the light less harsh.

I saw this diffuser on SD the other day; apparently it's a knock-off of the hyped up Gary Fong diffusers: http://www.focalprice.com/DT044W/P4_Professional_Lambency_Flash_Diffuser_White.html ?s=cPAB8bHuQH9ylhjpUu%2FWFQ%3D%3D&t=VAxsbCGTWS6phWNNQdiPw7AjXjzQ5tvD&d=UPF4O9tILJfaA7SUgU7SS7SjxoR21ktMf7Nm5OqF7Ol8c%2F ruemLcAQ%3D%3D

Keeping in mind that I would be primarily using the diffuser at WDW, would there be a noticeable advantage to getting the Fong knock-off? Would it be a waste of space and/or easily ruined? Is Fong stuff over-hyped to the point that even an $11 knock-off is a waste of money?

[shawn68]

I have the Gary Fong, and I use it a lot for portraits. I don't use it much for anything else. It is a great addition to my portrait equipment. I have tried it in other styles of photography, but really haven't seen a vast improvement when it comes to those areas.

[JoeDif]

I've always thought the Gary Fong stuff is seriously overpriced.

[MICKEY88]

I have 2 of the gary fongs and one lambency, I had 2 fongs because I was using 2 different flashes..a minolta and a sigma,

I picked up the lambency, because I found it on ebay it's the universal ,with the regular dome,... the amber dome and the chrome insert for under 20 bucks. and it was a New York seller..I've been thinking about getting another lambency off of ebay, from china because it comes with all of the colored domes..

I always have one of the lightspheres on my flash, however for some reason I didn't use it this last trip to WDW, and I wish I had for character photos..

[GrillMouster]

The hardness/softness of light is determined by the size of the light source relative to the size of the subject. Since the Stofen Omnibounce and the Gary Fong Lighsphere aren't appreciably larger than the flash head, they don't actually soften the light coming from the flash. Instead, they scatter the light, redirecting it all directions. That light then bounces off of low ceilings and nearby walls, effectively creating a larger light source that results in softer light on the subject. These accessories may be useful for indoors, but outdoors with nothing to bounce off of, they're pretty much useless. The only thing they'll do for you outdoors is greatly reduce the amount of light traveling directly from the flash to your subject; you could just as easily do that yourself by dialing in a few stops of negative flash exposure compensation. Lowering flash exposure compensation will also conserve your batteries and give you faster recycle time.

One of the biggest complaint I hear about the "fong dong" is that it's big, unweildy, and frequently pops off of the flash head.

[WDWFigment]

The hardness/softness of light is determined by the size of the light source relative to the size of the subject. Since the Stofen Omnibounce and the Gary Fong Lighsphere aren't appreciably larger than the flash head, they don't actually soften the light coming from the flash. Instead, they scatter the light, redirecting it all directions. That light then bounces off of low ceilings and nearby walls, effectively creating a larger light source that results in softer light on the subject. These accessories may be useful for indoors, but outdoors with nothing to bounce off of, they're pretty much useless. The only thing they'll do for you outdoors is greatly reduce the amount of light traveling directly from the flash to your subject; you could just as easily do that yourself by dialing in a few stops of negative flash exposure compensation. Lowering flash exposure compensation will also conserve your batteries and give you faster recycle time.

One of the biggest complaint I hear about the "fong dong" is that it's big, unweildy, and frequently pops off of the flash head.

For some reason, I thought pointing the flash head upwards with the Stofen diffuser on it did something outdoors besides draining my battery. I guess I just looked like one of those idiots using their flash during fireworks!

Thanks for the heads up.

[MICKEY88]

The hardness/softness of light is determined by the size of the light source relative to the size of the subject. Since the Stofen Omnibounce and the Gary Fong Lighsphere aren't appreciably larger than the flash head, they don't actually soften the light coming from the flash. Instead, they scatter the light, redirecting it all directions. That light then bounces off of low ceilings and nearby walls, effectively creating a larger light source that results in softer light on the subject. These accessories may be useful for indoors, but outdoors with nothing to bounce off of, they're pretty much useless. The only thing they'll do for you outdoors is greatly reduce the amount of light traveling directly from the flash to your subject; you could just as easily do that yourself by dialing in a few stops of negative flash exposure compensation. Lowering flash exposure compensation will also conserve your batteries and give you faster recycle time.

One of the biggest complaint I hear about the "fong dong" is that it's big, unweildy, and frequently pops off of the flash head.

I have to respectfully disagree with this..

the cloudy diffuser does indeed diffuse the light.

if the size of the light source, was the only factor, then the sun would be perfect light, since it is so large, but light is better when the sun is diffused thru clouds..

or on a sunny day, scrims are used to diffuse.. the light of the sun..

the fong is definitely big,however, I've carried mine around the ren faire entire weekends and never had it pop off..

[shawn68]

I agree Mickey88. I have used mine hours on end with it never really moving. The negative comments about the fall off are probably not securing it correctly.

[MICKEY88]

For some reason, I thought pointing the flash head upwards with the Stofen diffuser on it did something outdoors besides draining my battery. I guess I just looked like one of those idiots using their flash during fireworks!

Thanks for the heads up.

I generally aim the fong at my subject outdoors, rather than having it pointed up

[MICKEY88]

I agree Mickey88. I have used mine hours on end with it never really moving. The negative comments about the fall off are probably not securing it correctly.

definitely, or using the wrong one for the flash,

when my minolta flash died I replaced it with another sigma, the fong fit loosely, so I bought stick on velcro at walmart, I took the one side and cut it in half, putting half on the flash, the other half on the fong, then I put the fong on the flash and put the opposite piece of velcro over both halves to hold it in place..

[GrillMouster]

I have to respectfully disagree with this..

the cloudy diffuser does indeed diffuse the light.

I said it doesn't SOFTEN the light. It does diffuse it, in that it scatters it in all directions. Only a portion of the light goes directly toward the subject, the rest is wasted if it doesn't bounce off of anything else.

if the size of the light source, was the only factor, then the sun would be perfect light, since it is so large, but light is better when the sun is diffused thru clouds..

It's the size of the light source in relation to the subject that makes the light hard/soft. The sun in the sky, in relation to a person on Earth, is a tiny speck, which is why it produces really hard shadows. If the person were up in space right up next to the sun (and managed not to burn up), then the sun would be much larger in relation to the person, and product soft light. A light bulb is tiny compared to a person, and, thus, produces hard light on that subject. However, that same light bulb inches above a toy matchbox car is proportionately larger and produces soft light on that subject. If you put a softbox really close to a person it produces really soft light. If you move that softbox across the room the light/shadow becomes harder because it has become smaller in relation to the person. These aren't just my theories, this is scientific fact that the pro photographic community has known and taught for as long as I can remember.

or on a sunny day, scrims are used to diffuse.. the light of the sun..

The scrim then becomes the light source and it's larger than the sun in proportion to the subject. On a cloudy day the entire sky is the light source, not just the sun. In the studio with window light it's recommended that you use a north-facing or south-facing window because the light coming through wouldn't be direct sunlight. Direct sunlight through a clear windows, the sun is still hard point of light. However, if you put a scrim in the window (a trick we used to do), then the entire window becomes a big softbox light source and produces soft light.

the fong is definitely big,however, I've carried mine around the ren
faire entire weekends and never had it pop off..

Yes, it is large. It's larger than the flash head, so it theoretically produces softer light than the flash by itself, but it's not THAT much larger, so its effect in softening the light is negligable. We're not talking about a softbox.

As for the fong thing falling off, the folks did purchase it for the correct flash (sb800). I'm sure it could have been rigged with velcro to stay put, but that shouldn't be necessary. It should fit and stay perfectly on its own or at least come with velcro or whatever to keep it in place. These were professional wedding photographers that were using it. It wouldn't fall off after each shot, but it wouldn't stay up over the course of an entire wedding.

[GrillMouster]

For some reason, I thought pointing the flash head upwards with the Stofen diffuser on it did something outdoors besides draining my battery. I guess I just looked like one of those idiots using their flash during fireworks!

Thanks for the heads up.

Yeah, this is a hard one for some people to grasp. They see the images appearing less harsh, and they're right, but not for the reason they think.
With the stofen pointed up some light is reaching the subject, but only a fraction; most of the light was wasted. Like I said using negative flash compensation would accomplish the same thing. It's about balancing the fill flash with ambient. If you dial down the flash a few stops it can look really natural without the obvious harsh flash look.

[Code]

GrillMouster nailed it.. great explanations.

[MICKEY88]

Yes, it is large. It's larger than the flash head, so it theoretically produces softter light than the flash by itself, but it's not THAT much larger, so its effect in softening the light is negligable. We're not talking about a softbox.

As for the fong thing falling off, the folks did purchase it for the correct flash (sb800). I'm sure it could have been rigged with velcro to stay put, but that shouldn't be necessary. It should fit and stay perfectly on its own or at least come with velcro or whatever to keep it in place. These were professional wedding photographers that were using it. It wouldn't fall off after each shot, but it wouldn't stay up over the course of an entire wedding.

my reference to it being big, wasn't about the quality of light, just agreeing with your comment that one of the complaints was that it is big

I also mentioned having 3, and the only reason I used velcro on one is because I was using it for a smaller flash than it was designed for, otherwise I've used 2 with no velcro, for all day car shows, all day at the ren faire, and also at anniversary parties and weddings, and in january it wqas on my flash all day long at WDW for 3 weeks straight..and I've never had an issue with it falling off, and thats with switching back and forth between cameras so it's often dangling at my side, I have knocked the cap off a few times, but only a few, not sure why our experience is different, but I've never had problems...

[handicap18]

I almost never use my flash without my Gary Fong diffuser attached. I like the way it softens/diffuses the light. I do notice a difference when I don't use it and in the past I have tested it myself to see the difference.

It is big, but it works. I doesn't really add any weight. I have had mine fall off, but it doesn't happen very often.

I have used it indoors and outdoors. Outdoors just for fill. I also almost use it pointed straight up. Even outdoors with nothing to bounce off, I get a nice soft fill light because of the way its made.

Is it over priced? Maybe. But have 2. One for each flash. I've used 1 of them for 4 years with no problems and I've taken thousands upon thousands of flash pictures. It was well worth it for me.

[pjacobi]

If flash diffusers are so great, why doesn’t Nikon or Canon sell them?

Both Nikon and Canon flashes do tilt toward the ceiling and some even have pull-out bounce cards. That’s how the Pro’s have done it for decades.


-Paul

[Chikabowa]

I suggest looking at something along the lines of a demb flip-it or the lumiquest pocket flash bouncer. While I don't use either of the products, I do think that they are some of the better options on the market.

[rtphokie]

Yeah, this is a hard one for some people to grasp. They see the images appearing less harsh, and they're right, but not for the reason they think.
With the stofen pointed up some light is reaching the subject, but only a fraction; most of the light was wasted. Like I said using negative flash compensation would accomplish the same thing. It's about balancing the fill flash with ambient. If you dial down the flash a few stops it can look really natural without the obvious harsh flash look.

Dont forget that there is still some benefit to bouncing the flash. Light travels in a straight line. Without some tilt, even with negative flash compensation, the subject can look very 2 dimensional. Bouncing the flash, even a little bit, will light the tops of heads, shoulders, etc. a bit better.

Fong diffusers are great in a studio setting but I dont care for them anywhere else. They light the scene too well making it too artificial.

My favorite cost me $4 at the local camera shop, fits perfectly, does a great job of spreading out the light in a natural way. It pretty much stays on my speedlight:

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/mMtBRLu9FaoGapeg8AJVfFxdOQLTx5secKg-HejwzCviIhqq-_ZCdqpizLqNPzNHkExnoYHb6CjPjKSJBgNxgS_yOd__A45m8zC fUIjp5AXQmS9rm83hoHCR27riQSttpWHM6qMv2g

[rtphokie]

If flash diffusers are so great, why doesn’t Nikon or Canon sell them?

Both Nikon and Canon flashes do tilt toward the ceiling and some even have pull-out bounce cards. That’s how the Pro’s have done it for decades.


-Paul

Nikon and Canon dont sell them because their databases wont accept anything with a price containing less than 3 digits.

Pros use umbrella systems and softboxes (on stands, not attached to on camera flashes)

[GrillMouster]

If flash diffusers are so great, why doesn’t Nikon or Canon sell them?

I don't know about Canon, but Nikon started including a Stofen-like device with their flagship speedlights. The bilt-in bounce card (or a white business card rubber-banded to the flash head) can be useful for sending just a kiss of light for fill while the rest of the light bounces off of the ceiling or whatever.

I suggest looking at something along the lines of a demb flip-it or the lumiquest pocket flash bouncer. While I don't use either of the products, I do think that they are some of the better options on the market.

When I can't take my flash off-camera, I prefer the type of attatchments you mention (or a diy black foam that does something similar) to get DIRECTIONAL light. I like light that models the subject's form rather than flat light coming straight from the camera angle.

Dont forget that there is still some benefit to bouncing the flash. Light travels in a straight line. Without some tilt, even with negative flash compensation, the subject can look very 2 dimensional. Bouncing the flash, even a little bit, will light the tops of heads, shoulders, etc. a bit better.

I think the point you're making is the same one I made above, regarding directional light. Whether you get directional light by taking the flash off-camera or by bouncing it, it's often better than straight-on flat lighting. The problem with straight-on flash is that people often use it as the key light. Instead, they should let the sun or whatever ambient light be the key light, creating dominant shadows. The straight-on flash would only be used for fill, providing a little more detail in the shadows, but not eliminating them (because shadows define form; eliminating shadows makes something look flat). As long as it's dialed down a few stops it doesn't completely get rid of the shadows created by the key and it's fine.

[Chikabowa]

When I can't take my flash off-camera, I prefer the type of attatchments you mention (or a diy black foam that does something similar) to get DIRECTIONAL light. I like light that models the subject's form rather than flat light coming straight from the camera angle.


I couldn't agree more!! :)
Personally I find the flip up white card on my sb800 to do me nicely (although I prefer off camera if given a choice!), so I don't sock a lot of money into anything else. But if I needed something more, either of those two products would be my first stop.

[pjacobi]

I don't know about Canon, but Nikon started including a Stofen-like device with their flagship speedlights.

I just checked B&H and did not find that Nikon includes a Stofen-like device.

I think you are confusing a Stofen-like device with the wide-angle lens attachment provided by both Canon and Nikon.


-Paul

[Code]

I just checked B&H and did not find that Nikon includes a Stofen-like device.

I think you are confusing a Stofen-like device with the wide-angle lens attachment provided by both Canon and Nikon.


-Paul

Both the SB-700 & SB-900 do indeed include a diffusion dome.

[GrillMouster]

I just checked B&H and did not find that Nikon includes a Stofen-like device.

I think you are confusing a Stofen-like device with the wide-angle lens attachment provided by both Canon and Nikon.


-Paul

It may not be in the produce image, but the SB-800 came with a diffusion dome and the SB-900 comes with one. It's pretty much a Stofen omnibounce.

Edit: Didn't realize Code had already replied. Good to know that the SB-700 also includes one.

[Kphoto]

When I was second shooting for weddings, we used a stroboframe & a Micro Apollo mini-softbox. I've had it for 6 years, use it all the time & love the pictures.

Karen