Are They TRYING to keep us away?

[beansmom]

With fewer discounts available and the price of tickets rising, Is Disney trying to keep the crowds away? You'd think, in this recessionary climate that they would be offering incentives to increase sales but it doesn't look that way to me.

Can anyone explain the logic? Or is it that since the economy is bad, they will just gouge the ones willing to pay the prices?:confused:

[Mustangdi]

Beansmom
I am just really bummed out with this price increase. We will be going in 2 weeks and I
was going to upgrade 5 day hopper to an AP.
:( :( :( :( :( :(
All I can say is that they picked a fine time.
Now I don't know if I will do the upgrade or
not. I am really tired of all the cuts this
year, and now a price increase. What next?

[beansmom]

The bad thing is that I'm always telling friends who say they can't afford a WDW trip that with a little determination and planning it really is affordable. Boy, are they making a liar out of me!

I'm beginning to think it really is a once in a lifetime trip. I mean, I don't think the pass increase will sink my plans but add it to fewer room discounts, raising prices of everything else and it does seem a lot of $$ for a week of fun. Especially when I consider what other 'permanent' things that $5K will buy.

I'm sitting on 'last year's vacation money'---new furniture for the lving room and the kid always needs something. Sorry for the vent. Just frustrated.

[n2mm]

I'm going out on a limb here, but folks are acting like this is the first time WDW has increased prices. Gosh, they do it every year and people still find the money to flock to the parks. I don't like it one bit (mostly because I was there last month and could have purchased my friends and family their passes at the lower rate) but there is nothing we can do about it. OK, some could say, "I won't be going to WDW next year," but it won't be me. I noticed on the Disney site that the room rates actually stayed the same (for the values), dropped (for the moderates) and went both up and down for the Deluxes. I was thrilled that the room prices didn't go up in addition to the tickets. Which they usually do EACH and EVERY year. Heck, I stayed at CBR in 1989 for the high Regular season rate of $69. Then I became an AP holder in 1995--there were no discounts on rooms back then. Every now and then a Delux would be discounted 20% off during value season and sometimes a moderate would be 10% off, but never during Spring or Summer. You guys have it made. With mousesavers and sites like this and all of the discounts Disney is offering constantly no one should complain. Would you rather Disney not offer any discounts like they did a few years ago?? I doubt it. I had to make my husband get a job at as a Cast Member to get the discounts. Now talk about a slave driver! We love the CM discounts, but lately you guys get the rooms for almost what we get them for, something totally unheard of years ago.

[MrsPete]

Prices are going up because people continue to pay them! Supply and demand. Simple.

[beansmom]

Point taken, n2mm. I wasn't privy to all the history, only having become a disneyholic in 2000. I'm sure it's frustrating to hear me gripe when you know how good it is now. I feel the same way at work...I've been there 16 years and the newbies are all fresh faced and eager---been there, done that and the t-shirts shrink! :D

I am grateful for any and all discount I am able to get...even the ones I can't use.

I just wonder how the companies (mine included) can justify whining about loss of profits, etc when the CEO's get such huge checks. You can bet none of them kick any salary or bonuses back to the ailing corp---including the millionaire CEO of the corp I work for.

[idontknow]

My grumpy posts are due to the fact that this has been a year of "shhh, don't tell them until it is too late". This isn't a Disney thing for me. In Feb our work changed our insurance with less than a week's notice. (DH had surgery scheduled for over a month before the change for the week after the change, we were out of luck) Then in March they did it again with less than 12 hours notice. Then they decided not to pay us Holiday pay with only a 3 day notice. (they had payed us for over 10 years for the same holiday) Then they decided to close our work and remodel with a name change with only 4 days notice. (I'll take construction over what I do normally, though. ;)) Now the ticket thing with Disney. I agree, they can increase the prices whenever the like, I just think it is bad planning to do it now. I really don't think the changes to the DC are right, either. but, that's a vent I don't want to type out right now.

[jgates]

Can someone give me a little more detail of price increase?

Old vs. New?

[beansmom]

http://wdwig.com/hnews.htm

Gates,

Here's the link to deb's news page...all the dirty deed is described there.

[Luv2Roam]

Agree on much of the above. I think we all expected the usual increases at the start of the year. Those were the norm, and what people expected.
Does this mean their usual first of the year increase will still come around too? :rolleyes:
And in the wake of constant eliminations of perks, I think they are just hurting themselves more and more on a daily basis it seems. It's like they are purposely seeing what they can do to drive people away, rather than encourage guests to return more often.
I think they may have a rude awakening approaching. They think the parks are empty and hurting now. Just wait...
Parades are cut, fireworks are cut, hours are cut, prices increase, and etc! :p All to keep ABC afloat...
Many of you would be interested in reading the News and Rumors board....
I too use to instigate others to travel to WDW. But can't say that I think that now is a good time for WDW, although I STILL Love to go there. But after January, I am planning on taking a wait and see approach for future trips.

[beansmom]

"Isn't it ironic?" as Alanis would say.

The very same day I started this debate, I decided to buy an AP even though I live halfway across the country! So obviously, nothing is keeping me away after all.:crazy:

[DiznEeyore]

What's interesting to me (and I cannot remember where I read this, but it was very recently) is that the man who took over for Walt when he died was terrified to raise ticket prices at the park for fear the public would think they were "a bunch of crooks". Now THAT'S ironic.

[C.Ann]

I think most people expect a yearly increase in ticket prices..

What they DON'T expect is to pay MORE for LESS..

I think blaming the "economy" for Disney's low attendance is a crock.. The more likely explanation is that people are getting tired of spending their hard earned vacation dollars for less and less and are either limiting their vacations to WDW to once every several years (as opposed to the once a year trip) or they are simply going elsewhere..

Disney is playing Russian roulette.. "How much can we cut before the customers won't come back anymore?" They're already seeing a partial answer.. Wake up Disney! Offer people a reason to come - NOT numerous reasons to stay away...

[tink2dw]

I think the timing is interesting! 3 days before 9/11?? How strange??

[disvaclub92]

I feel my real dilemma is - that if I only had known at least a few months in advance of the price increase - I could have prepared myself saved and bought prior to the increase. That is why I am upset - and of course it is not going to stop me from coming.

:rolleyes:

[SnowWitch]

I can claim I participated in the DIsney exposure of at 3 dozen people and the absolute addiction of Disney of about half of those. And to be honest I'm starting to feel guilty. Last summer I helped three families plan their FIRST trip to DIsney, they all decided to stay on-site because of the great perks. Well as we all know by the time these people arrived in Dec the perks were long gone. This summer my best friend and I have been planning our Dec trip, she hasn't been in 3 years and just finished nursing school so money is still tight. What a great present from Disney price increases. I'm a little disgusted.:earseek: I love Disney, we are vacation club members bu this is getting ridiculous. When we reach Disney soil in Dec it will be for the first time in a year and a half. Previously we had been visiting 2-4 times a year but I felt customer service was less than what I expected for my money. I'm on a wait and see bases. I can handle shorter hours if the lines are short, I can handle increased prices if the quality is still there. If its not I can vacation elsewhere which is what I've done the last year and half!

[singitalto]

This increase just pushed me over my budget. So instead of upgrading my 4 day hopper pluses(that I bought the last time the increased was"rumored") to AP's . I will just be adding a day or two!!

Oh well think of the thousands of dollars I saved NOT going to Disney 4 times in a year like I did the first time I got AP's!!!

[beansmom]

The more I think about it...the less unhappy I am about the challenges we are being thrown.

Ya know, Six Flags is about $45 per day per person and it's not even in the same league as WDW...AND they have the nerve to charge..(I hope you're sitting down) $20 for their version of the Fast Pass thingy! It's true...so still, Disney is a better deal!

[disvaclub92]

beansmom,

I saw those Q-bots (Six Flags version of Fast Pass) - what a waste of money - someone bought them last week - it was an overcast day, Labor Day Weekend, and the park was dead - what were they thinking.

I cannot believe they charge for fast pass at Six Flags.

[crisi]

Keep in mind that Disney's costs can be expected to increase every year as well.

They are particularly hard hit by increases in energy costs. And because they are so employee intense, any increase to employee costs (increase in costs of medical benefits) can hit them really hard as well.

Since these costs are spread over every park ticket they sell and are relatively fixed (they can cut energy costs by shortening park hours or employee costs by laying off employees - both which we've seen happen over the past year, but are hard decisions to make), if the park attendance goes down, the profit they make on each ticket is reduced - until the theme parks don't turn a profit and then they won't be there.

Around here I pay $8 to go to a movie for 90 minutes. We recently paid $50 a ticket to go see Cirque de Soliel when it was in town. We pay $20 to go to a baseball game. Disney's prices seem to be in line with our other entertainment options.

[beansmom]

disva,
My dh purchased 3 of those darn fp things..$20 for the first person and $10 for each additional (I thnk only up to 6, tho) and I told him I would strange him if he ever did it again. We had free tix from AOL so I guess that isn't too bad but it really just galled me.

I guess crisi is right, too, movies aren't cheap and neither is any of form of entertainment. I'll pay more gladly for WDW than anything else.

[*Flower*]

I just got back from CA and three wonderful days and nights at the DLR.

What I can tell you about the ticketing system there now, is that unless you have some kind of seasonal or annual pass, your ticket media will expire 13 days after the first use, and if you buy your media in an attempt to hedge against a cost increase, you have about 4 months to use your tickets. Then they expire, and you're out the money!!

At least the WDW ticket media NEVER expires. DL ticket media USED to never expire, but it does now.....

Just a thought..........

[Cindy B]

Wow, Universal/IOA tickets prices are going down and there are giving a third day free with a two day two park ticket...

Boy, Universal, has some wonderful timing...

(I love both parks, but the affordability for Universal pulled us this trip!)

[WDW2002]

Originally posted by *Flower*
DL ticket media USED to never expire, but it does now.....

I am not sure about this. As far as I can tell since they started having multi-day passes, they have expired. The first ones, in as little as 5 days, after first use. Now they expire 13 days from first use, if you buy them from AAA or with a package. They have hoppers you can buy that do not expire 2 years after purchase/use but these must be purchased at the gate.

[Traveliz]

I feel my real dilemma is - that if I only had known at least a few months in advance of the price increase - I could have prepared myself saved and bought prior to the increase. That is why I am upset - and of course it is not going to stop me from coming.

Glad it isn't going to stop you - but this comment always makes me wonder - I can't think of an industry out there that tells you in advance when prices are going to rise period. And Disney did give a hint earlier this year at the regular time of raising prices -- they put out a press release that they weren't raising prices for the summer vacation season -- so really a week after Labor Day (the traditional put away the white shoes time of year, school is starting and summer fun is over) I don't think its a huge shock.

Granted not everyone here read the press release last Spring but again just think ofall the people out there headed to Disney who have no idea what the price of admittance is at all til they get there and who don't know there is NOW a way to get tickets cheaper in advance. So in one way this group is lucky to be on top of it and know there is an advance ticket price.

Liz

[johde]

Six Flags may be $35-$45 per ticket (depending on the park) but most people don't need to pay that much. Annual passes normally cost only $60-$90 and get you into any six flags park. Last year we bought an annual pass and went to four different parks. Also, it is much easier to get discounts for a park like Six Flags. The AAA price for Six Flags World of Adventure (in Ohio) was $28. Most of the Ohio parks are in that same price range.

Not that being said, I think Disney is a cut above those parks but I think they may be pricing themselves out of the market.

Compared to other florida Attractions.

For $99.00 you can get a Universal Power Pass and for 129 you can get a Sea World/Busch Gardens Annual Pass. So for $228 you can go to these four themeparks as much as you want for a year. Thats Slightly less than Disney wants for 5 days. It's also alot less than the almost $400 Disney wants for annual passes.

[beansmom]

johde,
I agree with what you are saying about the other parks compared to WDW but you also don't get any other kind of discount when you purchase annual passes to six flags. If you stay at a nearby hotel, you pay whatever rate they charge. You don't get anything extra AND you have to purchase a separate parking pass for six flags season tickets...AND Disneyworld is open 365...6Flags is not...so theoretically you could use your AP every day of the year and that would come up to over $18,000 for the year---gee, all of a sudden $400 doesn't sound so bad.:p

[CARRIE0604]

I can understand reasonable price increases. What upsets me the most is the lack of forewarning in taking away the DC discount on 4 and 5 day hoppers. I was just there 4 weeks ago, luckily I got my AP w/ the dc DISCOUNT.
Now, they say you can save money is you pre-order. Are they offering free shipping, if not it's a bum deal!
I'm not happy. My DC expires in Dec and they took away a major perk!

[tink2dw]

you also don't get any other kind of discount when you purchase annual passes to six flags.

You also won't have to pay $200. a night for a room either. As you can chose from the free market of hotel rooms in the area chosing one that fits your budget!! Try doing that at Spring Break in Orlando! Even the off site Red Roof and Motel 8 raise their prices double or triple to take advantage of PEAK season.

[MinnieMe2]

The price of an AP with the increase is not that much more than what we paid for our APs in April. I've been waiting for this increase for awhile now, and I don't think it's that substantial.

As for perks, that's what they are: perks. You really shouldn't expect them or plan on them, they're like icing on the cake! Just being there is enough of a perk for us!

[musicfan]

Well, Disney sure is fortunate that so many of you are going to stick with them. Personally, I'm boycotting it for a few years. We've gone just about every year for the past seven, but price increases for the resorts and the tickets have been excessive in my opinion, so we'll have to find other ways of entertaining ourselves!

[beansmom]

You also won't have to pay $200. a night for a room either. As you can chose from the free market of hotel rooms in the area chosing one that fits your budget!! Try doing that at Spring Break in Orlando! Even the off site Red Roof and Motel 8 raise their prices double or triple to take advantage of PEAK season.

No $200 but LaQuinta by 6flags in Arlington TX is $102.99 at Xmas time...and it's not a disney hotel! Face it, they charge and we pay because it is Disney. And music fan, thanks for staying home for a couple of years....less folks waiting in front of me in line.:jester:

[PatriciaH]

Originally posted by Cindy B
Wow, Universal/IOA tickets prices are going down and there are giving a third day free with a two day two park ticket...

Boy, Universal, has some wonderful timing...

(I love both parks, but the affordability for Universal pulled us this trip!)

Just to be fair Universal raised their prices early this year and Disney did not. They said they would wait till the summer was over. I am also paying less per night at POFQ this November then I paid in 93 at CBR!

[Kaa]

If you purchase your tickets before you arrive in Florida, there is no price increase. You can purchase your tickets online or at your local Disney Store (just not a Disney Store in Florida) or over the phone and save over ticket prices at the gates or resorts. You might want to check with your local Disney Store about their inventory. I don't think all the tickets are available at all the stores.

[LIFERBABE]

We visited WDW in June 2002.
Yes it's fun, yes you want to give the "magic" to your children, but I took my kids to Hurricane Harbor 2 weeks ago and they thought that was pretty magical also.
Universal is far cheaper than DW. The Ap with Parking and Discounts can be had for $99. Ap's to Hurricane Harbor are $55. Connections sells movie passes for $4.50. Ap's for Six Flags are $60. My Dh and I flew to Vegas RT and stayed at the Mandalay Bay for 4 nights for $850 with free parking. There are many choices to spend vacation dollars and I for one do not travel 1200 miles to stay in a budget hotel or eat peanut butter sandwiches. I have booked our WDW for next year and we will be using what's left of our PHP's and Universal AP's. After that I too will wait and see.
No wonder I see so many parents pushing strollers down the Las Vegas Strip!

[travelitis]

Originally posted by LIFERBABE
No wonder I see so many parents pushing strollers down the Las Vegas Strip!

Yes, Vegas is less expensive. For our family, taking our kids or ourselves to casinos really lacks the same magic of Disney. I realize there are many fun family things in Vegas, but there are plenty of casinos in between them. While some might find Vegas a great family destination, we don't think it comes close to competing with Disney even given the cut-backs and price increases. Anyway, I expect Disney to raise ticket prices yearly. What business doesn't raise prices?

This could spawn a new thread: If I weren't going to spend my vacation $$ at WDW, I'd spend them....

On a cruise
Atlantis in the Bahamas
Colonial Williamsburg and DC

[eeyore0062]

Oh Pu-leeze... ticket prices have not increased in almost 2 years. You cannot say that about the other theme parks. I don't think that it has anything to do with 9/11 or anything else. People have been complaining about the lack of fresh paint on the rides, the fact that rooms aren't as clean as they used to be, no Spectro or fireworks during the week, the cuts in hours... well, guess what? It takes money to have these things, and that sometimes means increasing ticket prices. We are in hard econmonic times...everyone is, including Disney! They have been offering terrific rates on hotels--some as much as almost 50% off. I can understand why this is disappointing, but we all expected for them to raise admission soon anyway, so why are we acting like this is such a huge shock?

[eeyore0062]

This could spawn a new thread: If I weren't going to spend my vacation $$ at WDW, I'd spend them....


For me...WDW...wins hands down. Nowhere else we could go would have something that appeals to everyone in the family. To us, it is THE vacation... and well worth the money! When prices are high, we just can't go as often.

As for Williamsburg... a nice 2 or 3 day vacation if you throw in the historic district, BG and Water Country. Or maybe, if you like the outlets you could stretch it into 4 days. Let me tell you, though, the prices for nice hotels up there are comparable, if not more expensive than staying on property at WDW.

DC... well, yeah, you could spend about a week up there if you wanted to. Very expensive hotels!

Cruise: sounds good, if it is a Disney cruise!

Atlantis..fine for me and DH, but not for DD.

Las Vegas... I still remember the street walkers when we went as kids. Even though it has cleaned up, it is not what I would consider an appropriate family vacation.

JMHO!:)

[travelitis]

As much as I love Disney and could enjoy visiting multiple times in a year, there's so much more of the U.S. and the world I want to see. We cruise (and scuba) every summer and do WDW every other year. If Disney's prices put you off, there are certainly other great vacation options that don't offer legalized prostitution and casinos.

btw, I'd combine DC and Williamsburg and skip amusement or water parks and outlet stores. The hotels are comparable in cost, but there's no $1300 of admission for 7days for our family of 5. It would cost about the same as WDW but is a totally different kind of trip. As the saying goes, "Variety is the spice of life."

I'm not annoyed by the price increases. I'm annoyed by the onslaught of sequels to animated films and FW attractions turning into infomercials for their corporate sponsors.

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Oh Pu-leeze... ticket prices have not increased in almost 2 years. You cannot say that about the other theme parks. I don't think that it has anything to do with 9/11 or anything else. People have been complaining about the lack of fresh paint on the rides, the fact that rooms aren't as clean as they used to be, no Spectro or fireworks during the week, the cuts in hours... well, guess what? It takes money to have these things, and that sometimes means increasing ticket prices. We are in hard econmonic times...everyone is, including Disney! They have been offering terrific rates on hotels--some as much as almost 50% off. I can understand why this is disappointing, but we all expected for them to raise admission soon anyway, so why are we acting like this is such a huge shock?


THANK YOU for saying what I have been thinking since this thread began. You just said it so much better!!!!

[denisenh]

People have been complaining about the lack of fresh paint on the rides, the fact that rooms aren't as clean as they used to be, no Spectro or fireworks during the week, the cuts in hours... well, guess what? It takes money to have these things, and that sometimes means increasing ticket prices.
Sounds fair to me! Please keep us updated on these improvements!! Thanks in advance! ;)

[TinkerbellRules]

Prices for all events (sporting, theme parks, etc) will be going up due to 9/11. Insurance and the the added cost of security on such events has gone up so the cost is passed on to us. A lot of people don't think about the impact on insurance companies and security issues with the attacks. My DH works for an insurance company. From what I understand, the amount of insurance companies willing to insurance high-rises has declined significantly.

So, I imagine, it has something to do with the terrorist attacks. Course, that's what they were trying to do anyway, was ruin our economy as well as terrorize us. Just my opinion...

[kylara]

While I can see people being annoyed buy the price increase, I find it surprising that so many people were "surprised" and upset that Disney didn't give more notice. When the other theme parks raised their prices back in April, Disney stated that they would hold off on a price increase until the end of summer. To me, that means they gave 5 months notice.

And also, I would rather ticket media go up a little than to have a majority of rooms back at rack rate. The news here in the Orlando area stated that Disney has offered more and deeper cuts for their rooms than they have in the past to keep occupancy up. To me, that is a decent trade off for the small increase. And it works for Disney...it might entice more people to stay onsite and spend more money onsite with the room discount.

[Popsicle]

Sorry so many people are upset about the price increase on the tickets. We have gone to Disney EVERY year since 1992, and EVERY year there has been an increase. If I'm not mistaken the new prices were usually effective Feb., Mar., April, sometime in there.

Being the hicks we are. we were happy to pay the same price this year as we did last year. Of course, we went before the increase became effective.

What I'm more upset about is the decrease in the places in the parks where the Disney Club discounts are applied. The only place you're almost assured of discounts is at Downtown Disney. Compared with the Disney Club card, the Magic Kingdom Club card was really Magic.

Again. being rubes, we've never stayed on-site. Have always found we got so much more in a room or a home-away-from-home condo off-site. We can't justify paying the prices. The parks are all the Magic we need on a daily basis.

Other things that concern us are the attitudes of some of the CMs. But even there we have to look at what they have to contend with in terms of customers. We'll never forget the night of TRAM WARS when the trams from the Magic Kingdom were slow and a woman actually threw pebbles at a CM because of it. Disgusting. Not trying to justify some of the surly attitudes we've experienced (especially at ESPN restaurant at the Boardwalk this year,) but sometimes you have to put things in perspective, complain when it is called for, and move on.

I still love Disney, but I agree that my loyalty is being slowly chipped away.



:Pinkbounc :mad:

[buzz5985]

I recently went on a summer vacation to Niagara Falls, and Lake George NY. We are from MA, a little north of Boston. I was pushing for Disney World, a final farewell to my son's "toddlerhood" As he started kindergarten on 9/4. I kept a very accurate record of expenses. I stayed at 3 different Radisson Resorts - I would recommend 2 - the one in Utica NY ($110/night) and the one in Niagara Falls Canada $160/night. the one in Buffalo NY was a dump. Then we traveled to Lake George NY, beautiful lake, our room was right on the lake, but it was run down and needed work, but it was cheaper than the others. I paid $155/night, plus $10/night for my 5 yo. Never mind the $1 for local calls, and the $1.50 for 1-800 calls!!!! How about $.25 for a bucket of Ice? or $20/hour for a row boat? I told my DH we could have done Disney a lot cheaper. When we got home and I showed him the numbers, he finally believed me. Get out and see the country, you will realize, Disney isn't that expensive.

[beansmom]

I keep promising myself that one day I'm gonna go somewhere different-- would love to see Niagra, Mt Rushmore, tons of other places...somehow disney just calls me away.

[Luv2Roam]

I would agree on a lot of the cost too. That is one reason we return to WDW.
Fisrt, we bith immensely enjoy our trips. Second, DH LOVES going somewhere that he doesn't have to drive. It is very relaxing for him. We had a car for a few days in January and became the Bickersons. :rolleyes: No more of that. ;)
Try and get a decent room in downtown Chicago for less than $200. And believe me for under $200 it very well may be a dive. I know from experience.
I love staying in downtown Chicago. Flying there is cheap for us. The room rate probably keep us away more than anything.

[LorieR]

I am thrilled to be going for the third time in three years and happy that Disney World is still there after all these years! Sure, I am not happy to be paying more for the tickets but I DO have a choice in all this, and I choose to go!!! Last year I paid full price for PO Riverside and this year, after learning "the ropes," I am paying $44 less per night!! Times are tough...we all know it... I am just glad I am here, I am healthy, and Disney World is there for me if I CHOOSE to go!!!

[starwood]

Just my 2 cents

We went to Great Adventure - NJ over the weekend. Compared to Disney there is no doubt that Disney wins.

1. Admission was $48 for one day (only a few dollars less than a 1 day for Disney).

2. Parking was $10 ($3 less than Disney)

3. Even though we still paid the full admission price - half the rides were closed for repair and all the water rides were drained.

4. The lines were incredibly long because only 1/2 the rides were functioning.

5. They have a fast pass clone BUT you need to pay extra for it.

All day long we kept saying how much we appreciated Disney after seeing this.

[travelitis]

I expect price increases and am not bothered by it. I agree with Popsicle that my loyalty to Disney is eroding, though. The more Epcot resembles a huge infomercial for corporate sponsors, the more Disney inundates us with "opportunities" to spend even more money in the parks, and the more they produce substandard quality animation (sequels to beautiful classics) the less I like it. I still love it, make no mistake about that, but it's tarnished a little.

I have nothing against them making a buck or a few billion bucks, but the marketing in the parks has gotten more "in your face" than it used to be. In fairness, advertising in general has more of an "in your face" approach, but that detracts from the magic for us. I guess that's why Epcot is our least favorite park now, yet I used to be enamored with it. Disney isn't the only place doing this, and the cruises we've taken illustrate that. However, we know they have some pretty fun toys in the stores, but must they have a CM standing outside with a cart bouncing a big ball to my kid so then I have him begging for one? That's not magic, that's underhanded and a real turn-off.