Vault Disney Closing

[raidermatt]

Apparently, The Disney Channel is closing the Vault Disney programming they have been running overnight. This includes the Mickey Mouse Club, Zorro, and episodes of The Wonderful World of Disney.

Vault Disney Closing (http://www.laughingplace.com/News-ID10013780.asp?Headline=1&Date=8/28/2002&Section=)

This is a bummer for me. Even though I don't often stay up to watch these, I do sometimes tape them, particularly the Wonderful World shows.

I honestly have no interest in their sitcoms, though I understand others do. Still, those shows already run at various other times, and it seems overkill to now run them all through late-night as well.

[wdw4us2]

Looks like another decision made based on market research instead of what Disney's core fans want.

I usually did not stay up to watch either, but we did tape a lot of shows as well as watching them on the West Coast feed.

This is the only programming I even like on The Disney Channel which has gone steadily downhill since they changed the cast of "So Weird".

It seems like all their programming is aimed at the 7-13 age bracket. Too bad.

Lisa:cool:

[TiggerFreak]

Maybe they are planning on releasing these as "Treasures" and are hoping this will help increase sales:confused:

Like you, I seldom stayed up late enough to watch.
A show during the day on the weekend would have been nice, but who am I fooling, as a forty something male, I just don't fit any of their programming demographics.
I wonder who they think will stay up and watch the stuff already shown during the day.
Isomniac 13 year old dropouts?

[hopemax]

Here's the contact info

The Disney Channel Viewer Services
3800 West Alameda Ave.
Burbank, CA 91505

800 - 874 -1687, ask for programming department.

Over on LP a couple people have called, talked to a nice lady named Gayle who indicated that they are keeping an eye on the letters and calls.

Since this is overnight programming, there is actually some sliver of hope that they will re-add some Vault Disney stuff.

[Planogirl]

I am very tired of Zorro but some of the other stuff was fun to watch IMO. DS recently told me that the Disney Channel was trying to be like Nickelodeon all of the time but "not as good". Out of the mouth of babes... :rolleyes:

[Jeff in BigD]

I'm extremely frustrated with this move. After midnight is pretty much the only time I'll watch The Disney Channel. I do stay up later than most people, but I can't imagine that the nightowls would rather watch Even Stevens or Jet Jackson.

I can only imagine what they'll put on instead & it's not good. Maybe they'll even show infomercials? http://www.tag-board.com/smilies/nono.gif

I'll be making a call tomorrow for sure.

[Jeff in BigD]

Oh man, I just saw what the replacement programs are gonna be. http://216.40.241.68/cwm/cwm/eek2.gif

I'm in shock. This is so freakin' lame & I'm not going to watch the channel again until similar programming is back on.

[Uncleromulus]

Figures.
Even tho it seems I've seen the same episode of Swamp Fox 744 times, it's STILL better than the garbage now on the Disney Channel during the day.
I remember how excited I was when we first got the Disney Channel, and all the fine shows and films they had.
Now, except for Vault Disney, I haven't even watched it at all for almost 3 years. If it weren't part of a DTV "package", I wouldn't waste my $$.
A crying shame , what's happened to the Disney Channel---

[Peter Pirate]

Perhaps the reason Disney is dropping the current format is $$$. If nobody is watching anyway then perhaps it makes more sense to just rerun the daytime fare. I mean, I hear a few of you but a few diznee-nuts does not a demographic make.

And since Planogirl has related her childs feelings, I'll relate mine. Nickleodeon is NEVER, NEVER, NEVER watched by my kids. Aside from 'Bob the Builder' whom one thinks is cute (I think that's on Nick) it's all Disney & ABC Family. They laugh at the garbage on Nick.

Uncle, you've stated before your contempt for current Disney programming, but Lizzy, Even Stevens, So Weird, Kim Possible, Jett, Boy Meets World (reruns) are great (not to mention the fantastic original made for tv movies)...But is isn't aimed at you Uncle...What's happened to the Disney Channel, you ask? It's aimed at Disney kids...And if my kids and their classmates are any indication it's being well received...Sorry grown-ups.
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[mickey1010]

I agree that the majority of the DC's programming should be aimed at kids. However, how many 7-13 year olds are up between midnight and 6 AM??? For that matter, the majority of them are probably in bed before midnight. I don't know exact numbers but there is no way the main viewing demographic for the early AM hours are grade school kids.

I'm not sure about this, but doesn't Nickelodeon still have "Nick at Nite" that showed B&W sitcoms and older family shows? I watch maybe a couple hours of TV each week so Nick may have canned that long ago. If they have, I rescind my argument!!!:bounce: :bounce: :) :) :bounce: :bounce:

[mattjs]

Why change it though? I don't have a big problem with the zoog movies etc. In fact, alot of em I really like, particularly a few of the lighhearted movies. Of course it should be programmed for todays kids and I'd say they're doin a nice job of it.

So, getting away from the overall programming debate......

Since clearly the target audience for the zoog type shows is the younger kids, why would you wanna re-air the same stuff after midnight, to kids who are almost certainly already asleep?

I would think with the Vault you've got something to offer to the smaller and much older audience available that late at night?

[Peter Pirate]

My main point was that if there is virtually no audience during those hours anyway (I don't know what the numbers are) then maybe it's just cheaper to rerun whats already showing. Not a very good solution I'll admit but if it's cheaper than the other way then it's probably the right choice until something that will actually generate a significant unmber comes along...
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[mattjs]

If it's a more cost effective move then sure, go ahead and do it. But I'd presume that Disney still owns the rights to these old classics. So, I wouldn't think it costs any more to air a show like Zorro at 12:00AM than it would a new zoog show. I don't see any savings here but I don't know enough about the tv industry to know.

As far as finding something to draw bigger numbers late at night, I'd say you've only got one choice. You go after the adult audience since they're the only ones who are up.

So, if the cost is virtually the same (which I can't say that it is) why not air the adult favorite old classics and draw the best you can with that during the overnight.

If the new intention is to replace Vault Disney with re-runs of Lizzy Maguire at 1:00AM, I find it hard to believe that overnight numbers are going to improve any. In fact, I'd be shocked if they didn't drop significantly.

Maybe AV can talk a little about any cost differential, etc.? AV?

[DEE DEE]

How sad to do away with Vault Disney the little Disney has going for it..Avonlea use to be a favorite of mine, but the channel now is not only made for kids it is made by kids.I do not understand why Mr Eisner is in the tv and movie businness when he frankly does not want to show anything.How many toys are going to be hot for Christmas out of Even Steven ,Boy Meets World or Lizzie Maguire?The stores are selling Sponge Bob,Dora the Explorer and Bob the Builder is popular. Not only can he not run the Disney Channels but he buys Fox Family .I do not understand why he has this need to run everything he touches in the ground/:p :p

[raidermatt]

The infamous Pirate surfaces for another round of pillaging....
:D

I understand what you are saying, and that's why I was careful to point out that the change is a bummer for me, but I didn't say it was necessarily a bad or dumb move.

It does seem counter-intuitive though. There just can't be many grade school children up after Midnight, especially with school starting back up.

The Vault Disney programming still fits with the overall "theme" of the channel, and one would think it would have more appeal with adults who are up at that time.

However, I must allow that its possible I'm just plain wrong, and the audience is bigger for Lizzy, Stevens, etc even at those odd hours.

But I can't help but think that TiggerFreak maybe onto something. The Disneyland "Treasures" set was released last year, and those shows are still shown periodically on Vault Disney. With more of the Treasure series coming soon, perhaps they wanted to remove them from the airwaves.

[Peter Pirate]

I tend to think one of my earlier observations was incorrect. It really doesn't make sense that financially it would be any different to run the current fare versus the cataloged fare...If there is a cost difference then that is the answer, for sure. But if not, I guess I don't get it either.

:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[Planogirl]

Mr Pirate, your kids are certainly entitled to their opinions as is mine. That doesn't make either group of kids correct nor is it kind of you to infer that my child watches "garbage". Actually, I would be very curious to see the ratings for both channels because I'm already guessing that the "garbage" you referenced likely does far better. Of course, there is no accounting for taste is there?

Lets' see... Nickelodeon has Rugrats, Spongebob, the Wild Thornberries and Arnold, plus Blue's Clues, Bob the Builder and Franklin for the little ones. And the Disney Channel has what again? My point is that slamming a channel that is more successful makes as much sense as proclaiming that ABC is REALLY better than everyone else out there at least to Disney adults. What are Disney kids anyway? :confused:

Yes, Nickelodeon still has Nick at Nite which was so successful that it was expanded into another channel. Maybe Disney can do the same with Zoog Disney. :crazy:

[Another Voice]

I don’t have a specific explanation for what they did, but I do have some background.

The Disney Channel these days only has one purpose – to beat Nickelodeon. The Channel is not there to promote Disney, it’s not there as an outlet for Disney programming, and it’s most certainly not around to please Disney fans.

No doubt there is a PowerPoint presentation that worked its ways up the Disney Channel tower in Burbank that showed Nick’s overnight ratings beat Disney’s overnight ratings. Hence the word went out – drop all the stuff from the dead guy (which makes the people in Team Disney very, very happy) and rerun more cheap, bland tweener sitcoms made with Canadian tax dollars.

It doesn’t really matter that the shows cost more than the tapes from the vault, or that these programs are trounced by Nick in normal viewing hours (both Nick and Cartoon trounce The Disney Channel in every category). But they make Disney look more like Viacom and TimeWarner and that passes as competition for The Mouse these days.

Like all the other divisions within Disney it is more important not to fail than it is to succeed. Getting poor ratings with an original program exposes you to blame, getting poor ratings with a copy-cat program shields you from risk of making a decision. It’s the same thinking that behind all the sequels and remakes; if there’s no creativity up at the very top of the management food chain there’s a tendency for that vacuum to suck it out from the entire company. And there’s a massive black hole at the head of Disney at the moment.

The other question is why is so important for The Disney Channel to beat Nick? The Channel is, after all, making gobs of money so what’s wrong?

The Channel makes gobs of money because Disney basically extorted the cable companies out of it. The capsule history and business: A while ago, Disney was a premium channel the cable customer paid for on a voluntary basis. You plopped down you $4.95 a month and you saw mice. This made a bundle of money for everyone and forced the mouse to please its subscriber base with lots of original and Disney-centered program. Everyone was happy.

Well, almost everyone. It’s seems that the Channel wasn’t growing fast enough for some and coming up with original programming is very hard (especially for executives without creativity). Worse, there were eyeballs staring at those other channels taking away money that rightfully ought to be going to stock options. So another PowerPoint presentation was created with a simple premise. If people don’t want to give you money – FORCE them to give you the money.

For “basic” channels your cable company pays the channel a monthly fee for each viewer on the system – stuff like CNN and USA Networks and Lifetime. It’s usually a small amount but given the millions and millions of cable subscribers these days, it adds up very fast.

So Disney decided to play a game. Instead of being a “premium” channel, it was going to become a “basic” channel. Everyone watching cable television was going to be forced to pay for The Disney Channel whether you wanted it or not since the cable companies would add that expense into the basic cable rate. And since The Disney Channel was “commercial-free”, Disney was going to charge more than most other basic channels for this “unique Disney benefit”.

And if the cable companies didn’t like that arrangement, then they couldn’t have ESPN.

In a less polite society, many would call that extortion. Worse, it fulfills the worst nightmares of all the critics of Big Corporate Media: the consumer have no choice over the products available for purchase. But the cable companies knew they couldn’t offer service without ESPN because there are a lot guys watching. So they buckled and gave Disney what it wanted.

Or for a while anyway. It turns out that the ratings for The Disney Channel are absolutely awful compared to what Disney had promised all the cable companies. It simply isn’t worth it for the cable operators to pay the bloated fees The Mouse demands – especially when all the eyeballs are glued to Nick, Nick at Night, TVLand, Cartoon and all the other (and better) competitors for family channels. There isn’t any cable operator that feels it “has to carry” The Disney Channel.

And ESPN…They read the newspapers too. Everyone in the entire industry now knows that Disney needs the cable carriers much more than the cable people need ESPN. Disney tried the same ESPN trick when several large systems tried to remove ABC Family. It didn’t work and Disney was forced into getting a temporary court order to keep the channel on the systems. Disney now understands that it can’t force The Channel down people’s throats – it has to provide ratings like all the other channels do. Then again, this is the same company that thrashed ABC into fourth and fallen. It shouldn’t be a surprise that the efforts to “improve” the ratings at The Channel are just as tightfisted, shortsighted and incompetent as the efforts at the broadcast network. Or Disney could simply reduce the fees it charges for The Disney Channel or return to its premium status. But you tell Eisner that….

When all the new contracts come up, expect many stations to drop Disney Channel unless Disney cleans up its act.

Ain’t payback fun?




P.S. Efforts to launch Playhouse Disney as a separate channel seem to be doing little except leaving a crater in the cash flow.

[Peter Pirate]

Planogirl, my apologies...The 'garbage' comment was directed more towards Uncle (he made an opposing 'garbage' comment previously)...I was totally out of place to say what I said in that context. Forgive me, please. Tom

:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[Planogirl]

Peter Pirate, I don't mind that type of response being aimed at me even if it wasn't. Just expect me to respond firmly. :teeth:

I still think you're wrong... ;)

[Jeff in BigD]

Another Voice - Thanks for the insightful (and frightening) look at the dealings.

I think it's kinda silly having their psuedo-commercials as well.

I've wondered what the benefits of marketing the Disney Channel made movies. I mean, sure they're done on the cheap, but the amount of money for print ads & billboards? How are they returning the revenue, aside from forcing the cable companies to pay for them?

[Uncleromulus]

Not referring to the "trash" or "refuse" part of the definition, but more toward the "unwanted (by me, anyway ) material".
But a poor choice of terms, for which I apologize.
Only good thing is that I have probably already seen each and every film/show on Vault Disney at least once, so I'll have my memories. But I do feel sorry for all the folks who'll probably never see these fine shows and films.

[Peter Pirate]

Thanks for the retraction Uncle, though it was not necessay, the bad tone was totally my fault. I seem to have a problem going from light to heavy conversation. Well, 'm going to WDW today so perhaps I'll have some fresh stuff to say next week.

PG, I am well aware of your ability to guard your territory & back your opinion, it is generally my goal not to be on the wrong end of those comments from you or my other friends here on the DIS...
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[Uncleromulus]

Enjoy your trip!! Hope you'll have some reports for us over on the restaurant board.

[mattjs]

Thanks for the insight AV. I forgot about that battle with the cable companies. No doubt that could come back to bite em down the line.

Brutal...
Getting poor ratings with an original program exposes you to blame, getting poor ratings with a copy-cat program shields you from risk of making a decision.

And unfortunately, if you're surounded by animatronic suits, there's a twisted to logic there.

[Jeff in BigD]

Perhaps we should post what we would do if I were in charge of programming at Disney?

[mattjs]

I'm not sure I'd change much.

As far as the live action stuff goes, I like the general theme of what they're going. I don't like every Zoog show and movie they've put out but, overall I think they've got the right foundation in place. Disney just needs to be sure they've got the best writters and actors available. Then push for creative family based shows. It's the same game plan, just always striving for better execution.

Surprisingly, the area that could use the most work is animation. I deffinitely enjoy the occasional episode of SpongeBob on that other network ;) so the addition of something humorous along those lines might be nice. You'd think Disney could manage that one wouldn't you? I mean, can you imagine how many SpongeBobs and CatDogs you could sell in the parks if they were Disney characters? Heck I'd buy a SpongBob myself.

Which leaves us with the overnight hours. Where what you've got is an adult audience plain and simple. And re-running episodes of "Sister, Sister" and "The Famous Jet Jackson" isn't gonna do it for you. At 3:00AM you're only gonna draw so many viewers anyway, so I'd look at the list of shows already in-house and throw up whatever appealed most to the late night crowd. In this case the choice is either "Lizzie Maguire" and assorted shows or the old classics. I'm goin' the old classics which are a hit with at least a small % of the already very small % of adults who happen to be up and watching tv at 3:00 in the morning.

Now of course, in the big picture, what Disney does with its overnight schedule for the Disney Channel is pretty insignificant. And even though I did enjoy the Vault I wouldn't mind it being eliminated if I could just see some logic in it. But I can't. There's no apparent cost savings and, undoubtedly, there'll be no help in the ratings. In fact, if I had to guess I'd say they're actually more likely to see a drop in overnight numbers. So I just don't see this one yet.

Big deal? Not at all. Kind of a wierd and currently unexplainable move though? Most deffinitely.

Which brings me back to AVs post...
Getting poor ratings with an original program exposes you to blame, getting poor ratings with a copy-cat program shields you from risk of making a decision.
Not partucularly productive reasoning but, so far the only thing that makes sense. That, and the idea forwarded that maybe they're going to DVD with all this stuff and that's why it's being pulled. Even then I'm still at kind of a loss though.

Cause if you're plan is try and sell shows like "The Jersey" at 3:00AM...I mean c'mon...there's just no audience for that stuff at that hour...you might as well just go off air during the overnight. Of course, then again maybe I'm wrong. The fact being I know absolutely nothing about, and having absolutely no experience programming a tv station. Though experience doesn't seem to have helped anyone at ABC. :p

[Planogirl]

Yes, Peter Pirate please do enjoy your trip. And please let that other "garbage" go. :D I was certainly never angry, just wanted to make my opinion very clear. I guess that I succeeded. ;)

[Mooobooks]

I couldn't care less if they take the old Vault Disney stuff off The Disney Channel as long as I could be certain it was going to come out on DVD.
Unfortunately, those of you who bought the first wave of Disneyland Treasures DVDs know that several have been edited: in the Disneyland USA set, parts of the Tiki Room show and a Mouseketeer song were dropped from two of the shows because Disney is either in a dispute (with the Mousketeers) or no longer owns the rights to the music (in the Tiki Room show). Either way, the result is that while they continued to air the UNedited full length shows on Walt Disney Presents on TV, those of us who paid for the DVD box set got screwed! And you can bet it will happen again because The Disney Company is a cheap SOB these days.

[Jeff in BigD]

Geez, I bought the DL Treasure, along with Silly Symphonies & Mickey Mouse, a couple days again. I was mad that the Mickey cartoons weren't in widescreen (a reasonable assumption, no?), but the DL ones are edited?!

The Ei$ner boys just swiped $100 off of me! :mad: