photo taking poliy?

[mawis]

Hi, first post here- going to dl in oct and staying at vgc (excited because we've never been there before) anyway planning our trip got me thinking about something that happened to my sister at mk in June-

Pluto was doing an appearance and cm was taking professional pics of the kids. being a Pluto fan, my sister stood in the background and took a couple photos of him with her personal camera. suddenly the cm approached her and snapped "do you even have kids in this line!" my sister stood there a little taken back and the cm snapped again "well your freaking out some of the parents- you can stand in line and I'll take your pic!" (keep in mind my sister is 40 years old)
my sister was highly upset at being chastised like this

isn't that part of the disclaimer that you might end up in photos etc! did we create a breech of etiquette or was the cm out of line-
just wondering....

[Deb & Bill]

You aren't allowed to take photos of other people's children without their permission.

[CarolMN]

While the CM could & should have been more tactful, it's true that many parents freak out if strangers take pictures of their children. It's the times.

[going/again]

You aren't allowed to take photos of other people's children without their permission.

you tried to take a picture of characters (even if you do get in line) at WDW without kids in. almost impossible.

[kathyell]

Adults are welcome to get into meet and greet lines. At Disney, we can all be kids. :)

[smjj]

I suppose these are the times and that is to bad. We just never were that paranoid that we worried about someone we never saw or would see again snapping a pic if our kids were near a character when we are 900 miles away from home and they do not know where home is...smjj

[joandegennaro]

My whole family loves to take RPN's(random people shots) at the parks. I think that if you are in WDW you have to figure you mignt end up in someones picture. Having said this I can understand that given the times parents might be upset of up close pictures of their children by strangers. This is why when I saw a character I wanted a pic of I did it at a distance. For me I was taking these pictures to show the children I work with at home the different characters I saw on my holiday. My kids said why are you taking pictures of some strange kid? I just told them I wasn't taking pics of the kid but the character. Maybe next time you could approach the handler at the side and ask if its ok to take the pics. This way they can let the parents decide if its ok when their childs turn approaches.

I think it was because you were an unaccompanied adult that the issue even took place.

[CrazyDuck]

isn't that part of the disclaimer that you might end up in photos etc! did we create a breech of etiquette or was the cm out of line-
just wondering....

On the back of some of my old Disneyland parkhoppers it reads: "Entry constitutes consent for Disney to use any film, video or likeness of bearer for any purpose whatsoever without payment to the bearer". Now I read that as it giving Disney the right to take your photos not everyone else. Nevertheless, at Disneyland/world everyone is walking around with cameras so you would have to expect that you may end up in someone else's photos. If it freaks you out that someone is taking your picture then you best not leave the house.

[smjj]

I am sure all have seen the bit on CNN about the little girl in her family photo on mainstreet about 25 years ago and in the background in a stroller is her furture husband being pushed past them as the photo is taken. I think as they were looking at them she noticed her mother and father in law pushing her furture husband. It was on I think CNN about a week ago...smjj

[jarestel]

Except for certain shows/attractions where the photo policies are explained beforehand, I have never heard of Disney placing restrictions on anyone's ability to take pictures in any of the public areas. Though it might have fallen into the category of making mountains out of molehills, one could have asked the CM to summon a supervisor for clarification.

I'm thinking this issue is probably more of a courtesy thing than any real infringement of rules.

[ToddyLu]

I am sure all have seen the bit on CNN about the little girl in her family photo on mainstreet about 25 years ago and in the background in a stroller is her furture husband being pushed past them as the photo is taken. I think as they were looking at them she noticed her mother and father in law pushing her furture husband. It was on I think CNN about a week ago...smjj

I saw that story and we talked about it last night at our DIS meeting.

DH has been given an dirty look before...we do not have children and he has professional photgraphy equipment. It only happened once and now he takes them at a proper distance or during a parade. So your Sisiter is not alone in making a mistake and not really realizing the rules.

Now DH and I have seen creepy people in WDW. On two different occasions we have seen a man dressed in all black...no matter what the temp....long hair....carrying a briefcase.....at night. DH also noticed the WDW security force following him at a distance. I am glad they protect everyone (when possible). I think a CM told DH he was a frequent visitor to the park and was generally escorted around, albeit, secretly by security.

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I think the general rule of thumb is NOT to take pics of characters unless you wait in the line and have an actual turn. I have read multiple threads where the CMs told guests not to take photos of other people's children with the characters.

[delmar411]

I think the general rule of thumb is NOT to take pics of characters unless you wait in the line and have an actual turn. I have read multiple threads where the CMs told guests not to take photos of other people's children with the characters.

I've heard and seen this too. It's not just the 'other people's children' thing, it's intruding on the experience w/o waiting in line. While the OP's sister may have been at a reasonable distance, other people tend to get all crowded in near the characters, trying to catch their attention. It can be quite a problem at times.

[goofy4tink]

It's mostly an issue of a stranger taking someone else's child photo. More than likely, it's not going to be an issue. But in this day and age, most parents get nudgy about seeing someone they don't know, with a camera taking a photo of their child. You never know who that person could be.....there could be a parental custody issue and the non-custodial parent has hired someone to track the child and the custodial parent. I know, I know....it's a stretch. But, I know that we aren't allowed to take group shots of kids in our church...there could be a random child who shouldn't be shown in a photo due to some legal issue.
The CM could have been a bit more tactful though.

Oh, and by the way...I'm 61 and stand in line for character photos....especially when traveling with either me family or with friends. We love those photos!!!

[ramkam]

The article at this link discusses the right to take pictures.

http://www.photosecrets.com/can-i-take-this-photo.html

[dburg30]

You can pretty much take pictures of anything you want in public. Unless it's a place that you can expect privacy, ie: your house, your hotel room, a restroom, a changing room etc, there is really nothing you can do about someone taking your picture. IF you see someone taking your picture, you CAN ask them to NOT take your picture. If you are in a large group standing in front of the castle at WDW, you cant just go up and tell everyone not to take a picture if you are in it. If someone takes your picture and you ask them not to take any more of you, you can not demand they destroy any of the pictures or demand they give you their camera or anything.

It's why even though they are pretty scummy, the paparazzi can take pictures of people in their yards and such if they can find a public place to take the picture from, or if someone gives them permission to use their property. Again, if you are shooting over a privacy fence or shooting into a dwelling, then you cant do it.

[dburg30]

You aren't allowed to take photos of other people's children without their permission.

Where do you have that as a law anywhere or even a rule at say WDW?

[CarolAnnC]

Since this topic is not DVC specific, I am moving this over to our Photography board. Thank you!

[mom2rtk]

This will only be an issue when you take pictures of character with other kids in the shot. In that case, it is a very specific kid with a character, not just a random group shot on the street somewhere.

I have to say we were at DL this summer, and visiting the princesses at the Princess Fantasy Faire. The dad from the group ahead of us delayed leaving and started taking pictures of my daughter with Aurora. This sort of thing generally does not bother me. But to have a complete stranger stop and focus on my daughter exculsively without asking bothered me. I just stepped in front of him to take my own pictures and he got the message.

You CAN take pictures of the characters in BETWEEN them greeting kids. Remember, you might be focusing up close on a character with no kid in the shot. But the parents don't know that. I really do think it's the right thing, but the CM probably should have handled it differently.

[dburg30]

This will only be an issue when you take pictures of character with other kids in the shot. In that case, it is a very specific kid with a character, not just a random group shot on the street somewhere.

I have to say we were at DL this summer, and visiting the princesses at the Princess Fantasy Faire. The dad from the group ahead of us delayed leaving and started taking pictures of my daughter with Aurora. This sort of thing generally does not bother me. But to have a complete stranger stop and focus on my daughter exculsively without asking bothered me. I just stepped in front of him to take my own pictures and he got the message.

You CAN take pictures of the characters in BETWEEN them greeting kids. Remember, you might be focusing up close on a character with no kid in the shot. But the parents don't know that. I really do think it's the right thing, but the CM probably should have handled it differently.

While you may not have liked it, he wasnt breaking any laws at all.

This site (http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/photography_law_rights.html).. talks about something pretty close to this..

You are within your rights to photograph children in a playground, even if they are not your own children. However it's very likely that in most parts of the USA this will be regarded as a suspicious activity and it's very likely people (including parents and the police) will question your motivation. Despite this, the act of photography under these circumstances is not illegal - but it probably is unwise.

Again, this is pretty much equal to WDW except you know people had to pay to get into WDW and there will be MANY more people in WDW then at a local park. Like it or not, you or a family member may be part of someones 'disney story' be it for how you looked, how you were reacting to something or any other number of things.. Again, nothing illegal at all about doing it.

[ssanders79]

I've stood in line just to take a picture when I was not with my daughter. I've also stood to the side while others meet, but wait until the characters are alone. When in line with my daughter I typically take a test shot of the group in front of me to make sure my settings are in order. I always delete that shot right on the spot as I have no interest in saving other people pictures.

[ssanders79]

You CAN take pictures of the characters in BETWEEN them greeting kids. Remember, you might be focusing up close on a character with no kid in the shot. But the parents don't know that. I really do think it's the right thing, but the CM probably should have handled it differently.

I do this quite often and I am always willing to show a CM or fellow parent the shot to show them it was a close up of the character and not the child. I completely understand the situation as I am protective when it comes to my DD3.

[ukcatfan]

There is nothing illegal about it, but I would advise against doing it very often. If you do, you are likely going to encounter a parent going nuts on you. I know I would not be happy if I saw someone taking pics of my kids in that particular situation. If it is just out in a crowd, it could easily be coincidence and I would not question unless they were tracking our movement. A staged encounter with a character is something different.

[mom2rtk]

While you may not have liked it, he wasnt breaking any laws at all.



.... and I wasn't breaking any laws standing between his camera and my daughter. At the very least it was incredibly impolite.

Illegal or not, I believe it is Disney policy to try and prevent this from happening. I have seen CM's tell other patrons they can't take photos of other guests with the characters on many occasions. It doesn't have to be illegal to be against Disney policy or just plain rude.

[Raindown]

I've stood in line just to take a picture when I was not with my daughter. I've also stood to the side while others meet, but wait until the characters are alone. When in line with my daughter I typically take a test shot of the group in front of me to make sure my settings are in order. I always delete that shot right on the spot as I have no interest in saving other people pictures.

I take pictures of the characters when not in line too and I also take test shots before my group is up. I always stand far enough back as not to make anyone think I am cutting the line. I try to take shots between groups. Ultimately, people should realize they are in a public place.

I haven't had anyone give me beef about it at Disneyland.

[Geoff_M]

did we create a breech of etiquette or was the cm out of line-just wondering....Just like you still hear about police officers telling tourists, incorrectly, that it's "illegal" to take photos of federal buildings, bridges, power lines, etc. I think it's safe to say that the CM was acting on their own instead, perhaps at the request of "stranger danger" freaked out parents, instead of citing Disney policy.

I've stopped and taken photos of "rare" Disney characters with other people's children (back a few feet from the line) with zero problems, dirty looks, etc. As posted above, you do not need permission from parents to merely take a photo of their child.

The dad from the group ahead of us delayed leaving and started taking pictures of my daughter with Aurora. This sort of thing generally does not bother me. But to have a complete stranger stop and focus on my daughter exculsively without asking bothered me.Perhaps your kid was doing something particularly cute with Aurora... At an on-line photo community I belong to one of the members has a rather disarming way of responding to bothered parents when he taking photos at youth sporting events. He asks the parents after telling him why he's taking the photos, "What is it that you're afraid of that I'll do with the photo of your child?" He reported that when asked, the parents usually have a hard time naming a credible threat to their daughter/son being an anonymous child in photo and they get the look on their face like they realize that they're sounds pretty paranoid.

[mom2rtk]

Just like you still hear about police officers telling tourists, incorrectly, that it's "illegal" to take photos of federal buildings, bridges, power lines, etc. I think it's safe to say that the CM was acting on their own instead, perhaps at the request of "stranger danger" freaked out parents, instead of citing Disney policy.

I've stopped and taken photos of "rare" Disney characters with other people's children (back a few feet from the line) with zero problems, dirty looks, etc. As posted above, you do not need permission from parents to merely take a photo of their child.

The CM likely did not notice you taking the photo. I have seen them ask others to stop on many separate occasions, so I don't believe that was a "rogue" CM. The ones I have seen asked to stop are the ones up close in the line near that CM.

I'm curious, why wouldn't you wait to take the character's picture between groups?

[MICKEY88]

I'm curious, why wouldn't you wait to take the character's picture between groups?

I do it all the time, here's the reason I don't shoot between groups, this is the typical shot when taken between groups, because the characters do turn the charm on and off.

http://www.starrrshots.com/img/s6/v6/p648815741-5.jpg


here is a shot over the heads of someones children...

http://www.starrrshots.com/img/s2/v1/p852795976-5.jpg

[mom2rtk]

Perhaps your kid was doing something particularly cute with Aurora... At an on-line photo community I belong to one of the members has a rather disarming way of responding to bothered parents when he taking photos at youth sporting events. He asks the parents after telling him why he's taking the photos, "What is it that you're afraid of that I'll do with the photo of your child?" He reported that when asked, the parents usually have a hard time naming a credible threat to their daughter/son being an anonymous child in photo and they get the look on their face like they realize that they're sounds pretty paranoid.

Well, I do think she was very cute with Aurora. But it was OUR moment, not his. And to be perfectly honest, he irritated the living daylights out of me because he was up in MY space for taking photos as she walked up to greet Aurora. Princess Fantasy Faire at Disneyland is sort of like being in the judge's tent in Toontown with the characters. It's not in a "public" area around hordes of people.

I think a sporting event is a little different than a one on one meet & greet with a character.

I have had character CM's ask me on many occasions if I want them to stop others from taking pictures of my daughter, and I always just chuckled and waved them off. But this guy was TOO close and TOO presumptuous.

And honestly, what's the big deal? Why be judgmental? If the other parents at the sporting events don't want you to take pictures of their kid, do you really need to? I'm not talking about someone showing up incidentally in the background. I'm talking about purposely setting out to take THAT kid's picture.

And just what DOES a pervert look like? If others don't know you, there's no way for them to know your intentions.

And I ask again, why not just wait to take the character's picture between groups of kids?

[mom2rtk]

I do it all the time, here's the reason I don't shoot between groups, this is the typical shot when taken between groups, because the characters do turn the charm on and off.

http://www.starrrshots.com/img/s6/v6/p648815741-5.jpg


here is a shot over the heads of someones children...

http://www.starrrshots.com/img/s2/v1/p852795976-5.jpg

Well, I do see your point. But the truth is that you are the ONLY one who knows you are only shooting above the kids' heads.

[ukcatfan]

Perhaps your kid was doing something particularly cute with Aurora... At an on-line photo community I belong to one of the members has a rather disarming way of responding to bothered parents when he taking photos at youth sporting events. He asks the parents after telling him why he's taking the photos, "What is it that you're afraid of that I'll do with the photo of your child?" He reported that when asked, the parents usually have a hard time naming a credible threat to their daughter/son being an anonymous child in photo and they get the look on their face like they realize that they're sounds pretty paranoid.

I can think of a two credible things in an instant. #1 That he might have perverted reasons for taking the pictures #2 That he was going to make money off a pic of my kid without a release. If he is there with the sporting league's permission, then that would be all he needs to say and should not be starting a confrontation with his little prepared speech. If he does not have permission then he probably should not be taking pictures there (see #1 and #2). I certainly hope I never run into that guy b/c it probably wouldn't go over too smooth with me.

[MICKEY88]

Well, I do see your point. But the truth is that you are the ONLY one who knows you are only shooting above the kids' heads.

true,
see that is the sad thing about today's society too many people assume the negative, rather than assuming the positive, while being observant ..

it's kind of like the elementary teacher taking recess away from everyone because one kid was bad, there might be one bad person with a camera for every 1 million that visit WDW, should we stop everyone from taking pictures..??

but as the photographer mentioned earlier asked, what exactly are people afraid of,

I'm a very protective father, but realistically does anyone think a pervert is going to spend all that money to take a few pics of children in a place like WDW with a large security force, when it would be so much easier and safer to just get those pictures somewhere else in public..???


my experience has been that cast members including character handlers, strike up friendly conversations with me,
the only near negative experience was in JAnuary when a supervisor reprimanded me for leaning against a light pole by the train station while waiting for Spectro to start. Once she realized that I was not a CAst member she spent 10-15 minutes chatting with me and apologizing numerous times..

[MICKEY88]

I can think of a two credible things in an instant. #1 That he might have perverted reasons for taking the pictures #2 That he was going to make money off a pic of my kid without a release. If he is there with the sporting league's permission, then that would be all he needs to say and should not be starting a confrontation with his little prepared speech. If he does not have permission then he probably should not be taking pictures there (see #1 and #2). I certainly hope I never run into that guy b/c it probably wouldn't go over too smooth with me.

3. he might be someone that just got a dslr and is practicing

4. he might have a relative on the team and is just shooting everyone.

the list could be endless

[mom2rtk]

true,
see that is the sad thing about today's society too many people assume the negative, rather than assuming the positive, while being observant ..

it's kind of like the elementary teacher taking recess away from everyone because one kid was bad, there might be one bad person with a camera for every 1 million that visit WDW, should we stop everyone from taking pictures..??

but as the photographer mentioned earlier asked, what exactly are people afraid of,

I'm a very protective father, but realistically does anyone think a pervert is going to spend all that money to take a few pics of children in a place like WDW with a large security force, when it would be so much easier and safer to just get those pictures somewhere else in public..???




I think it's all just a matter of degree. As I said, I have laughed it off on many occasions. But with the incident at DL, the man was only about 5 feet from my daughter and Aurora. All he had to do was say "Do you mind?" and point to his camera. I would have asked my daughter who would have said fine.

[Raindown]

my experience has been that cast members including character handlers, strike up friendly conversations with me,


Same here. I was surprised at many of the cast members' interest in photography and their ability recognize my camera and lens. I've only had positive interactions while taking photos.

[ukcatfan]

3. he might be someone that just got a dslr and is practicing

4. he might have a relative on the team and is just shooting everyone.

the list could be endless

You are right that it could be endless. But there is one constant. As a parent, I am the protector of my children, nobody else. I would much rather make someone taking pictures feel uncomfortable or even offended than to not do anything and it might just have happened to be that one in a million pervert.

Like it has been said, it is not illegal to take the shots. Just the same it is not illegal for someone to tell the photographer that they are not welcome or at least question their intentions.

[photo_chick]

You aren't allowed to take photos of other people's children without their permission.

Not true.

[MICKEY88]

You are right that it could be endless. But there is one constant. As a parent, I am the protector of my children, nobody else. I would much rather make someone taking pictures feel uncomfortable or even offended than to not do anything it it might just have happened to be that one in million pervert.

Like it has been said, it is not illegal to take the shots. Just the same it is not illegal for someone to tell the photographer that they are not welcome or at least question their intentions.

the reaity is, your children are much more likely to be harmed by a family member or friend, than by a stranger,

when my kids were growing up, I photographed sports, dance and school events, I photographed other kids..

the reason being these were my childrens friends, and part of their childhood memories...

the bottomline is you put your kids on a playing field or on a stage, someone will take their picture,

again, sad commentary on our society, I remember when my daughter started dance at the age of 5, when her group came out on stage everyone thought ohhh aren't they cute, and cameras were snapping away....nowadays you have to be afraid to react that way because too many people think it's wrong to thing kids are cute

[ukcatfan]

the reaity is, your children are much more likely to be harmed by a family member or friend, than by a stranger,

when my kids were growing up, I photographed sports, dance and school events, I photographed other kids..

the reason being these were my childrens friends, and part of their childhood memories...

the bottomline is you put your kids on a playing field or on a stage, someone will take their picture,

again, sad commentary on our society, I remember when my daughter started dance at the age of 5, when her group came out on stage everyone thought ohhh aren't they cute, and cameras were snapping away....nowadays you have to be afraid to react that way because too many people think it's wrong to thing kids are cute

I totally agree with you, but if I see someone out of place I will question it. At most child events you know who the other parents and relatives are so someone not typical will stand out.

It is sad for our society. Unfortunately the digital age has given new outlets for fringe perverts to cross over into committing actual crimes. Before the Internet I am sure there were many perverts around that never did anything illegal or even anything weird outside the privacy of their own homes. There are just too many temptations for them now. That is why parents of young children have to be more vigilant than our parents had to be.

[MICKEY88]

I totally agree with you, but if I see someone out of place I will question it. At most child events you know who the other parents and relatives are so someone not typical will stand out.

It is sad for our society. Unfortunately the digital age has given new outlets for fringe perverts to cross over into committing actual crimes. Before the Internet I am sure there were many perverts around that never did anything illegal or even anything weird outside the privacy of their own homes. There are just too many temptations for them now. That is why parents of young children have to be more vigilant than our parents had to be.

vigilant is one thing, confronting someone with a camera just because you don't know them ??

again your children are at much greater risk from friend or family member, it's more often someone trusted by the family..??

[dburg30]

You are right that it could be endless. But there is one constant. As a parent, I am the protector of my children, nobody else. I would much rather make someone taking pictures feel uncomfortable or even offended than to not do anything and it might just have happened to be that one in a million pervert.

Here again, you need to be careful because if as I state below if it's a public place, you COULD be considered harassing if you pushed it too much. And at a sporting event or anywhere you dont know WHAT is actually being photographed.

Like it has been said, it is not illegal to take the shots. Just the same it is not illegal for someone to tell the photographer that they are not welcome or at least question their intentions.

If it's a TRULY public place, it could be illegal to tell me I'm not welcome as you dont own that place. You are allowed to ask me what I'm doing, and I may or may not feel like answering you.

[dburg30]

It is sad for our society. Unfortunately the digital age has given new outlets for fringe perverts to cross over into committing actual crimes. Before the Internet I am sure there were many perverts around that never did anything illegal or even anything weird outside the privacy of their own homes. There are just too many temptations for them now. That is why parents of young children have to be more vigilant than our parents had to be.

I think you are on the right track, but in the wrong direction. I'm sure all the evils of the world that we hear about all the time have been around a LONG LONG LONG time, it's just now it's REPORTED much quicker and more widespread then it ever was in the past, because of the age of instant communication. Pervs 40 years ago probably didnt take pictures though.... they probably just took the kids...



edit: BTW, I DO get that you are trying to protect your kids.. We are just trying to make sure you know what could happen if you happened to push it the wrong way over someone supposedly taking a picture of your kid.

[Geoff_M]

The CM likely did not notice you taking the photo. I have seen them ask others to stop on many separate occasions, so I don't believe that was a "rogue" CM. The ones I have seen asked to stop are the ones up close in the line near that CM.As I said, I was a few feet back away from the line. Others here have also reported that they haven't had problems with CMs in similar situations. I was in plain view and not hiding in the bushes.

I'm curious, why wouldn't you wait to take the character's picture between groups?IIRC, often times it was because I didn't want to make my family wait for me as we usually were walking by the front of the line. In addition, the characters are usually much more photogenic when interacting with someone else.

[ukcatfan]

I am talking in hypotheticals here. I have never been in this position myself. I am also pointing out that there are many other people that are as skeptical as me (or even more).



vigilant is one thing, confronting someone with a camera just because you don't know them ??

again your children are at much greater risk from friend or family member, it's more often someone trusted by the family..??

I understand that, but if I was at an event and someone just didn't seem right to be there I would ask around first to see if anyone recognized them. If nobody did then I would have no problem asking them their reasons for being there. It all depends on the venue as well. A football game with hundreds of people there is not the same thing as a gymnastics practice with twenty parents there.

Here again, you need to be careful because if as I state below if it's a public place, you COULD be considered harassing if you pushed it too much. And at a sporting event or anywhere you dont know WHAT is actually being photographed.

Like I say above it does depend on the venue and situation. It would never be considered harassment to question someone's intentions. If it went into threats of violence that is a whole different story and not what we are talking about here.

If it's a TRULY public place, it could be illegal to tell me I'm not welcome as you dont own that place. You are allowed to ask me what I'm doing, and I may or may not feel like answering you.

By that I mean not welcome to shoot my children. Again it all depends on who, where, event type, if permission was given by organizers, etc. The thing I was commenting on originally was that the photographer Geoff_M knows is automatically confrontational when asked. In my experience, someone that is automatically confrontational is usually doing something that they know that they should not be doing. A professional would never act that way and would easily be able to explain why they are there. You are probably a potential customer anyway, so they would not want to make you mad. If it is just someone with a new DSLR practicing, then they should have no problem saying that they will not shoot your child and be done with it.

edit: BTW, I DO get that you are trying to protect your kids.. We are just trying to make sure you know what could happen if you happened to push it the wrong way over someone supposedly taking a picture of your kid.

Me personally, I am not worried about that. It would more likely be me being questioned by someone else while I am photographing. Also, while I am a really friendly person, I have a somewhat intimidating appearance being a bodybuilder. People typically do not get edgy with me. (Comes in really handy with teenage boys interested in my daughter :thumbsup2)

[Geoff_M]

I can think of a two credible things in an instant. #1 That he might have perverted reasons for taking the picturesThis, of course, is the fear that pops in many people's minds... however, when you stop and think about it, I don't think there's much of a market in the pedophile world for kids giving Goofy a hug. Now, if someone is taking photos of kids at Blizzard Beach or getting off Kali River Rapids all soaked, then I think you might ask the person what they're up to.

#2 That he was going to make money off a pic of my kid without a release.That a separate issue from the taking of the image itself. If that happened, it would also be actionable on the part of the parents... and more importantly, Disney's legal department.

If he is there with the sporting league's permission, then that would be all he needs to say and should not be starting a confrontation with his little prepared speech. If he does not have permission then he probably should not be taking pictures there (see #1 and #2).I wholeheartedly disagree.... photography is not a crime. Many aspiring sports photographers use local amateur sports as a means to work on their skills at shooting a given sport. I've done it. I was hired one time to do event photography at a hockey tournament. But it had been about 10 years since I'd shot hockey, so before my paid gig I went to several local high school hockey games to get "bad in the groove". I paid my admission fee, and shot the games from public viewing areas.

I certainly hope I never run into that guy b/c it probably wouldn't go over too smooth with me.You would be the exception... he reported that when he'd give his name, offer them a business card and try and address their "fears", they seemed at ease and left him alone.

[Geoff_M]

...the photographer Geoff_M knows is automatically confrontational when asked.He isn't "confrontational", he engages the parent in a dialog. A lot of people just "react" and don't think about if their fears are even warranted in the first place.

[MICKEY88]

I am talking in hypotheticals here. I have never been in this position myself. I am also pointing out that there are many other people that are as skeptical as me (or even more).

if true I wonder why I've never encountered any while shooting



I understand that, but if I was at an event and someone just didn't seem right to be there I would ask around first to see if anyone recognized them. If nobody did then I would have no problem asking them their reasons for being there. It all depends on the venue as well. A football game with hundreds of people there is not the same thing as a gymnastics practice with twenty parents there.

a practice inside, should be more of a controlled environment I would think the people running the place should be on top of things

Like I say above it does depend on the venue and situation. It would never be considered harassment to question someone's intentions. If it went into threats of violence that is a whole different story and not what we are talking about here.

if you ask one question no, if you persist and keep them from doing what they are there for , it could be harassment.

By that I mean not welcome to shoot my children. Again it all depends on who, where, event type, if permission was given by organizers, etc. The thing I was commenting on originally was that the photographer Geoff_M knows is automatically confrontational when asked. In my experience, someone that is automatically confrontational is usually doing something that they know that they should not be doing. A professional would never act that way and would easily be able to explain why they are there. You are probably a potential customer anyway, so they would not want to make you mad. If it is just someone with a new DSLR practicing, then they should have no problem saying that they will not shoot your child and be done with it.

I didn't get that impression of the guy Geoff mentioned, if his comment always diffuses the situation, obviously he doesn't come across as confrontational to the parents involved..



Me personally, I am not worried about that. It would more likely be me being questioned by someone else while I am photographing. Also, while I am a really friendly person, I have a somewhat intimidating appearance being a bodybuilder. People typically do not get edgy with me.and that attitude is confrontational in and of itself, if I was approached by a body builder type, I would not be intimidated, especially if he apeared to have the attitude that some bodybuilders have, I'd be quite comfortable knowing the law was on my side, and knowing that if he touched me I'd own him :thumbsup2:thumbsup2 (Comes in really handy with teenage boys interested in my daughter :thumbsup2):confused3

this thread is interesting, if anyone truly believes their children are in danger from a photographer, then the TSA is not off target with the poster on the other thread..

[ukcatfan]

This, of course, is the fear that pops in many people's minds... however, when you stop and think about it, I don't think there's much of a market in the pedophile world for kids giving Goofy a hug. Now, if someone is taking photos of kids at Blizzard Beach or getting off Kali River Rapids all soaked, then I think you might ask the person what they're up to.

That a separate issue from the taking of the image itself. If that happened, it would also be actionable on the part of the parents... and more importantly, Disney's legal department.

I wholeheartedly disagree.... photography is not a crime. Many aspiring sports photographers use local amateur sports as a means to work on their skills at shooting a given sport. I've done it. I was hired one time to do event photography at a hockey tournament. But it had been about 10 years since I'd shot hockey, so before my paid gig I went to several local high school hockey games to get "bad in the groove". I paid my admission fee, and shot the games from public viewing areas.


Photography from the stands probably isn't going to draw much attention. Being in areas not typical for spectators will. If you are there to take pictures for reasons other than your child participating, the organizer should probably be notified simply for your own protection. Some parents might take it to the point where the police are involved. If you have no children participating and the organizers do not know who you are, it could cause unneeded hassle for you.


You would be the exception... he reported that when he'd give his name, offer them a business card and try and address their "fears", they seemed at ease and left him alone.

You didn't say that before. You said that he would say "What is it that you're afraid of that I'll do with the photo of your child?" If he opened with that line, I don't care what he followed it up with b/c he would have already lost all credibility in my mind. Again, when people are automatically confrontational they usually know that what they are doing might upset people. Simply from a business perspective, he should not make that comment. I know I would not ever spend money with someone that made me mad the first second I ever spoke to him.

[Geoff_M]

Photography from the stands probably isn't going to draw much attention.You lost me here, is the issue where you're standing, or the fact that you're taking pictures of kids that aren't yours? In the case of they guy I mentioned, he was shooting youth baseball and WAS shooting from a spectator area.

Being in areas not typical for spectators will. If you are there to take pictures for reasons other than your child participating, the organizer should probably be notified simply for your own protection. Some parents might take it to the point where the police are involved. If you have no children participating and the organizers do not know who you are, it could cause unneeded hassle for you.While I don't disagree that there may be a bonus in notifying the sports' organizers, this assumes that you know who they are and that they are present at the event you want to shoot. There's also the added hassle to you to do so.

You didn't say that before. You said that he would say "What is it that you're afraid of that I'll do with the photo of your child?" If he opened with that line, I don't care what he followed it up with b/c he would have already lost all credibility in my mind. Again, when people are automatically confrontational they usually know that what they are doing might upset people.You assumed his question was positioned as being confrontational. It was merely a response to the parent's "concern". He wanted to know "what" exactly was their "concern"? That doesn't mean his approach was one of "What's it to you?!?!?!" If he could get a parent think THINK about what exactly there concern was and express it, he would then have something to work with and be able to explain to them WHY he wasn't a concern to them.

[ukcatfan]

By that I mean not welcome to shoot my children. Again it all depends on who, where, event type, if permission was given by organizers, etc. The thing I was commenting on originally was that the photographer Geoff_M knows is automatically confrontational when asked. In my experience, someone that is automatically confrontational is usually doing something that they know that they should not be doing. A professional would never act that way and would easily be able to explain why they are there. You are probably a potential customer anyway, so they would not want to make you mad. If it is just someone with a new DSLR practicing, then they should have no problem saying that they will not shoot your child and be done with it.

I didn't get that impression of the guy Geoff mentioned, if his comment always diffuses the situation, obviously he doesn't come across as confrontational to the parents involved..



Me personally, I am not worried about that. It would more likely be me being questioned by someone else while I am photographing. Also, while I am a really friendly person, I have a somewhat intimidating appearance being a bodybuilder. People typically do not get edgy with me.and that attitude is confrontational in and of itself, if I was approached by a body builder type, I would not be intimidated, especially if he apeared to have the attitude that some bodybuilders have, I'd be quite comfortable knowing the law was on my side, and knowing that if he touched me I'd own him (Comes in really handy with teenage boys interested in my daughter )

:confused3

this thread is interesting, if anyone truly believes their children are in danger from a photographer, then the TSA is not off target with the poster on the other thread..

It seems that there is more to it an that he goes on to explain who he is and what he is doing. The comment alone would probably lead to confrontations because it is kinda rude.

You are misunderstanding me. My attitude is not confrontational at all. I just happen to be someone with larger than average muscles and that alone intimidates very many people. It is not like I am trying, it just happens. I lift weights because it makes me feel good, not to scare people. BTW, I am not like on of those jersey shore d-bags or anything. I am typically dressed in a polo shirt and slacks when in public.

[MICKEY88]

Photography from the stands probably isn't going to draw much attention. Being in areas not typical for spectators will. If you are there to take pictures for reasons other than your child participating, the organizer should probably be notified simply for your own protection. Some parents might take it to the point where the police are involved. If you have no children participating and the organizers do not know who you are, it could cause unneeded hassle for you.



You didn't say that before. You said that he would say "What is it that you're afraid of that I'll do with the photo of your child?" If he opened with that line, I don't care what he followed it up with b/c he would have already lost all credibility in my mind. Again, when people are automatically confrontational they usually know that what they are doing might upset people. Simply from a business perspective, he should not make that comment. I know I would not ever spend money with someone that made me mad the first second I ever spoke to him.

if the event organizers are notified, why should the photographer have to answer to a parent..
how is questioning the photographer, less confrontational, than his reply ??

if someone were to approach me, and start interrogating me with no just cause I might be the one calling the police..

[ukcatfan]

if the event organizers are notified, why should the photographer have to answer to a parent..
how is questioning the photographer, less confrontational, than his reply ??

if someone were to approach me, and start interrogating me with no just cause I might be the one calling the police..

You don't have to answer to a parent, but it would always be in your best interest to do so politely. A simple, "I am authorized to be here by..." will almost instantly end it. Asking them what they are so worried about without letting them know why you are allowed to be there might lead to you getting your privileges revoked by the organizer. Remember that the organizer deals with the parents all the time and you are basically a stranger they are letting be there. If the police got involved, they would likely ask the non related photographer to leave before asking the concerned parent to do so. Like you said, this is a sad side to our society now.

You probably have no problems with this b/c I have seen your gear shot and your appearance screams professional, not voyeur.

Also remember that I am playing devil's advocate here b/c I personally would not likely notice another photographer raising eyebrows since I would be taking pics myself.

[mom2rtk]

You guys just go on and discuss this amongst yourselves........:rolleyes1

The bottom line for me is my instinct. Like I said this has happened to us a number of times (which is why I can assure you that it is standard operating procedure at Disney). I know I sort of ask for it because of the costumes I bring for my daughter. But I will continue to trust my instincts. 9 times out of 10 it has been fine. This last time it wasn't. If it makes me uncomfortable, there is a chance it probably made my daughter uncomfortable.

This isn't about who has the bigger muscles and legal technicalities. This IS very much about common courtesy.

How about a quick "Is this OK with you?" to the parent (if you're close enough for it to be an issue, you'll be close enough to ask....).

[MICKEY88]

It seems that there is more to it an that he goes on to explain who he is and what he is doing. The comment alone would probably lead to confrontations because it is kinda rude.

You are misunderstanding me. My attitude is not confrontational at all. I just happen to be someone with larger than average muscles and that alone intimidates very many people. It is not like I am trying, it just happens. I lift weights because it makes me feel good, not to scare people. BTW, I am not like on of those jersey shore d-bags or anything. I am typically dressed in a polo shirt and slacks when in public.

why is the photographers comment rude,

isn't it rude to assume he has bad intent,

again sad commentary on our society, people assume, question someones intent and initiate the confrontation,

perfect example, 2 years ago I was hired to shoot a HS football team, a few games into the season, a mother of one of the cheerleaders jumped on me at a game..

I bet right about now some people are thinking it was because there were pics of her daughter on my website...

nope, she was angry because there were no pics of the cheerleaders on my site..

I was speechless, she shuffled away in a huff, the person who had hired me, dealt with it for me..

[Geoff_M]

Perhaps before we get too off-topic, let me try and recap:
1) You don't need parental permission to take a photo of someone else's kid in a public venue.
2) From reports here, it would appear that either: a) Some CMs will try on their own initiative to try and stop people they think are inappropriately horning in on a parent's photo shoot with their kid(s) and a Disney Character or when they feel that a photographer is making parents uncomfortable or b) There are a lot of CMs that need to be trained on proper enforcement of Disney's "You can't take picture of kids that aren't yours with our characters" policy.
3) Some parents don't like you taking photos of their kid. They fear that you may either a) Post the images on the highly sensational fully-clothed-kids-standing-with-disney-characters Yahoo! group or b) Use the photo in a cell phone ad in Indonesia or sell copies of it on eBay.
4) If you take such photo, some parents may give you the stink-eye or ask you to stop... which is their right. If they do so, it probably is a good idea to stop.
5) But if you intend to keep shooting, it's a good tactic to try and have a non-confrontational dialog with the parent to try and understand and address the stated fear.

[MICKEY88]

You don't have to answer to a parent, but it would always be in your best interest to do so politely. A simple, "I am authorized to be here by..." will almost instantly end it. Asking them what they are so worried about without letting them know why you are allowed to be there might lead to you getting your privileges revoked by the organizer. Remember that the organizer deals with the parents all the time and you are basically a stranger they are letting be there. If the police got involved, they would likely ask the non related photographer to leave before asking the concerned parent to do so. Like you said, this is a sad side to our society now.

You probably have no problems with this b/c I have seen your gear shot and your appearance screams professional, not voyeur.

Also remember that I am playing devil's advocate here b/c I personally would not likely notice another photographer raising eyebrows since I would be taking pics myself.

and the police would have no right to do so, at the sporting event,

in all honesty I don't worry because for my HS stuff I do go thru proper channels I have a letter of Authorization from the HS, plus for away games I contact the office or athletic director of the opposing school, explain who I am and ask if there is anything I need to do for sideline access.

[ukcatfan]

why is the photographers comment rude,

isn't it rude to assume he has bad intent,

again sad commentary on our society, people assume, question someones intent and initiate the confrontation,

perfect example, 2 years ago I was hired to shoot a HS football team, a few games into the season, a mother of one of the cheerleaders jumped on me at a game..

I bet right about now some people are thinking it was because there were pics of her daughter on my website...

nope, she was angry because there were no pics of the cheerleaders on my site..

I was speechless, she shuffled away in a huff, the person who had hired me, dealt with it for me..

Well, if it happened to be me, I would not be confrontational initiating the conversation, but I am a business professional and understand that being rude doesn't usually get you the outcome you are want. Some people will initiate it in a rude manner, but if you are the professional in the situation, you should keep your cool and respond with a courteous answer. It is basic customer service. Treat people how you want to be treated even if they do not treat you that way.

[mom2rtk]

I bet right about now some people are thinking it was because there were pics of her daughter on my website...

nope, she was angry because there were no pics of the cheerleaders on my site..





:rotfl2:

[ukcatfan]

and the police would have no right to do so, at the sporting event,



Whether they have the right to do so could be debated to the end of time, but that doesn't mean that they will not do it. If it is a school or other organized event then they could just claim trespassing and force you to leave. You are after all a stranger with no connection to the event taking place.

[MICKEY88]

Whether they have the right to do so could be debated to the end of time, but that doesn't mean that they will not do it. If it is a school or other organized event then they could just claim trespassing and force you to leave. You are after all a stranger with no connection to the event taking place.

if it's a school event an I paid, and have a ticket, trespass would be a very interesting charge

[Geoff_M]

Whether they have the right to do so could be debated to the end of time,...Actually, it's pretty well defined. You are correct that in many cases you can be declared as trespassing and asked to leave by police. A prime example is a school sporting events, even though it is "public property" in the area of trespassing it is legally considered "private". However, someone in a proper position of authority must declare you to be "trespassing". This normally is someone like an AD, principal, or other similar administration figure. Likewise, you can be bounced from a youth sporting facility, but it depending on their status with the property being used. If they use private land, then it's pretty clear cut... but again, it takes someone in a recognized position of authority to get involved. If they use a "public" space like park, the terms of their rental agreement would likely dictate what happens. If the league rents the park for the event, then they likely have the authority to declare someone in "trespass". But, if they are using part of the park along with other groups at the same time, then league officials likely don't have the right to ask you to leave. For example, we have a park that used to be used for both youth soccer and football leagues at the same time... as well as boaters and swimmers. In this case, the soccer league officials would likely be powerless to tell you to "get lost".

But the hypothetical was about parents confronting the photographer, and not league officials. Parents themselves can't get you kicked out. The worst they can do is complain about you to the officials. It's up to them to decide if you're worth the hassle of kicking you out.

[ukcatfan]

Actually, it's pretty well defined. You are correct that in many cases you can be declared as trespassing and asked to leave by police. A prime example is a school sporting events, even though it is "public property" in the area of trespassing it is legally considered "private". However, someone in a proper position of authority must declare you to be "trespassing". This normally is someone like an AD, principal, or other similar administration figure. Likewise, you can be bounced from a youth sporting facility, but it depending on their status with the property being used. If they use private land, then it's pretty clear cut... but again, it takes someone in a recognized position of authority to get involved. If they use a "public" space like park, the terms of their rental agreement would likely dictate what happens. If the league rents the park for the event, then they likely have the authority to declare someone in "trespass". But, if they are using part of the park along with other groups at the same time, then league officials likely don't have the right to ask you to leave. For example, we have a park that used to be used for both youth soccer and football leagues at the same time... as well as boaters and swimmers.

But the hypothetical was about parents confronting the photographer, and not league officials. Parents themselves can't get you kicked out. The worst they can do is complain about you to the officials. It's up to them to decide if you're worth the hassle of kicking you out.

That sounds exactly right to me. The kicker is that the executive in power can even use ridiculous concepts as the basis for trespassing. I have known many cops my whole life and they have told me that trespassing is a catch all means to remove someone from a situation without needing to prove anything. Once you have been removed what are going to do about it even if you disagree? If they were to actually want to arrest you then they would need some proof, but to just diffuse a situation and make someone leave they do not need to prove anything. Our local mall considers it trespassing if any group of more than four under 18yo kids are stopped in the corridor talking to each other. They must stay on the move or find a place to sit down if the are five or more. It does not even matter if they have been shopping. Do they enforce it often, no, but they have it documented so they can if they want to.

[Geoff_M]

if it's a school event an I paid, and have a ticket, trespass would be a very interesting chargeTrue case in point from the same photo site I mentioned earlier... A sports photographer reported that he was at a game were a photographer in the stands was kicked out by school officials and cops. During the basketball game, some of the parents noticed that a man in the stand had a camera with a telephoto lens, but he wasn't shooting pictures of the game. What he was taking photos of was the cheerleaders. And not just cheerleaders in general, but photos of the girls in "compromising" positions. Girls leaning forward, girls doing the splits, girls bending over, etc. Parents reported the guy's behavior to school officials, and they watched him, and had him booted after they confirmed the behavior. All perfectly legal, even though the guy paid his $5 (or whatever) to get in.

[Geoff_M]

I have known many cops my whole life and they have told me that trespassing is a catch all means to remove someone from a situation without needing to prove anything.Yes, but if a cop is called to defuse a situation at a ball diamond about photography and finds and parent upset about a photographer taking photos of the parent's kid (perfectly legal) and the photographer is able to satisfy the cop that his actions are benign... then I don't think the cop will necessarily accuse the photographer of being the problem and kick him off the site. As Mickey88 suggested, I think it's likely that the cop might reasonably decide that the momma/papa grizzly is the one disturbing the peace.

[ukcatfan]

Yes, but if a cop is called to defuse a situation at a ball diamond about photography and finds and parent upset about a photographer taking photos of the parent's kid (perfectly legal) and the photographer is able to satisfy the cop that his actions are benign... then I don't think the cop will necessarily accuse the photographer of being the problem and kick him off the site. As Mickey88 suggested, I think it's likely that the cop might reasonably decide that the momma/papa grizzly is the one disturbing the peace.

I bet 99 of 100 times nobody will get kicked out and they would just tell the photographer not to take pics of the kid the parents were concerned about. My whole point is that if they just inform the organizers and then act courteously to the questioning parent, there is most likely not going to be a disturbance. Communication is the key in most situations.

[MICKEY88]

True case in point from the same photo site I mentioned earlier... A sports photographer reported that he was at a game were a photographer in the stands was kicked out by school officials and cops. During the basketball game, some of the parents noticed that a man in the stand had a camera with a telephoto lens, but he wasn't shooting pictures of the game. What he was taking photos of was the cheerleaders. And not just cheerleaders in general, but photos of the girls in "compromising" positions. Girls leaning forward, girls doing the splits, girls bending over, etc. Parents reported the guy's behavior to school officials, and they watched him, and had him booted after they confirmed the behavior. All perfectly legal, even though the guy paid his $5 (or whatever) to get in.

How exactly did they confirm the behaviour, they can't confiscate the camera unless they have good reason to believe it was used in commision of a crime,,, which in PA downblouse or upskirt photographs would be a crime...

[ukcatfan]

This topic has actually jogged my memory. Taking this back directly to the topic, I have observed someone ask to take a pic of someone else's kid at Disney a couple times. One time it was my kid. We were back in the garden area in England practically all by ourselves when Alice showed up and spent about ten minutes walking around with my daughter. A woman near us told us how adorable she thought it was and asked if we minded if she took a few pics. We didn't mind and she took about three or four shots and thanked us. Another time it was someone that described himself as a blogger and asked if he could take some pics of a family meeting a character. They did not mind, he got his shots and went on his way. Again communication was good and everyone was happy if not even flattered that someone wanted their pic.

[ukcatfan]

How exactly did they confirm the behaviour, they can't confiscate the camera unless they have good reason to believe it was used in commision of a crime,,, which in PA downblouse or upskirt photographs would be a crime...

Just my thoughts, but if he was only pointing his camera at the cheerleaders even when the game action was away from them. Like I said before, if they are just going to remove him, they do not have to prove anything. They only need to gather proof if they are making an arrest and need evidence to prosecute. They can kick someone out for trespassing if they do not like his haircut. I have seen people kicked out of games for wearing opposing team clothes in the home section. At one game, they gave the guy a warning to go back to his side, but he came back and was taken out in cuffs. I found out later that they let him go once outside, but not before trying to give him a scare.

[Geoff_M]

How exactly did they confirm the behaviour, they can't confiscate the camera unless they have good reason to believe it was used in commision of a crime,,, which in PA downblouse or upskirt photographs would be a crime...I looked for the thread in question, but the site's search tool isn't very good. I haven't found that one, but found one about a similar incident at Marshall University. In that case, a police officer confronted the shooter and asked to see what was on his card... and the guy complied. the police officer said 80% of the images he saw were close-ups of certain cheerleader body parts.

[MICKEY88]

I looked for the thread in question, but the site's search tool isn't very good. I haven't found that one, but found one about a similar incident at Marshall University. In that case, a police officer confronted the shooter and asked to see what was on his card... and the guy complied. the police officer said 80% of the images he saw were close-ups of certain cheerleader body parts.

on model mayhem there have been numerous threads about photographers and models being confronted for shooting lingerie in public, the general advice is either switch cards discreetly or simply format the card, the pics can always be recovered at home..

[dburg30]

You guys just go on and discuss this amongst yourselves........:rolleyes1 Yea, while still pertains to the OP has kinda strayed a bit off center

The bottom line for me is my instinct. Like I said this has happened to us a number of times (which is why I can assure you that it is standard operating procedure at Disney). I know I sort of ask for it because of the costumes I bring for my daughter. But I will continue to trust my instincts. 9 times out of 10 it has been fine. This last time it wasn't. If it makes me uncomfortable, there is a chance it probably made my daughter uncomfortable.
So are you saying the person was a convicted sexual predator or something like that? I'm not sure what the 10th person did, other then 'look' or act a certain way?
This isn't about who has the bigger muscles and legal technicalities. This IS very much about common courtesy.
It's about both. It's about some of us making sure 'your side' understand that we arent doing anything illegal on 'our side'. Yes, politeness needs to be there for BOTH sides. And I put the ' ' around them so you understand I'm talking more about folks with the same thoughts as you, not YOU personally :)
How about a quick "Is this OK with you?" to the parent (if you're close enough for it to be an issue, you'll be close enough to ask....).

Honestly, and I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but if I happen to see a picture that I think is nice and it doesnt include my family, I dont have time to ask.

[Geoff_M]

The bottom line for me is my instinct. Like I said this has happened to us a number of times (which is why I can assure you that it is standard operating procedure at Disney). I know I sort of ask for it because of the costumes I bring for my daughter.I sorta blew by these comments last night because we got off on the sports tangent. I have to say that those are some very, very, nice character costumes that you've made and taken your daughter to Disney in... a lot of work, and a lot of detail. My mom has her Masters Degree in Textiles and used to do a lot of sewing, so I know the hours you've put into them. That said, you acknowledge that costumes draw a lot of attention from other guests. You're in a park with many thousands of other people, a high percentage of them carrying cameras. You can bet that a lot of them are going to see an out-of-the-ordinary dressed cute girl (often times a "mini-me") posing alongside a Disney character, and want to get a photo of the scene themselves. It's one thing if a person is invading your personal space or banging shoulders with you, but I think it's asking a lot for everyone within a given radius that wants such a photo to engage in permission seeking from you before doing so.

But I will continue to trust my instincts. 9 times out of 10 it has been fine. This last time it wasn't. If it makes me uncomfortable, there is a chance it probably made my daughter uncomfortable.If she feels uncomfortable at all, perhaps it's because she's picking up visual clues from you and your discomfort with the situation.

As for your instinct, I can't help but point out a major disconnect in the logic of trying to protect your daughter's image from being misappropriated for less than honorable purposes. You mentioned the costumes and I wasn't sure if that was a large penguin next to a CM Mary Poppins, or it was your daughter in your avatar. I then noticed your Flikr link in your signature. I followed the link, and lo and behold there are many dozens of photos of your daughter, in the costumes, posing with Disney characters. These photos are available for anonymous downloading by anyone on the Internet. What do your instincts tell you about some of the millions of people that surf Flikr as opposed to the hundreds of park goers that may see your daughter with the characters while you're in the park in a given day? You've even helped out and tagged the photos. I did a test search on Disneyland princess names and found your daughter's photos within the first few pages. If you're really that concerned about the misappropriation of your daughter's photos, doesn't it seem like you're guarding the front door while leaving the side door wide open? Honestly.

[mom2rtk]

I sorta blew by these comments last night because we got off on the sports tangent. I have to say that those are some very, very, nice character costumes that you've made and taken your daughter to Disney in... a lot of work, and a lot of detail. My mom has her Masters Degree in Textiles and used to do a lot of sewing, so I know the hours you've put into them. That said, you acknowledge that costumes draw a lot of attention from other guests. You're in a park with many thousands of other people, a high percentage of them carrying cameras. You can bet that a lot of them are going to see an out-of-the-ordinary dressed cute girl (often times a "mini-me") posing alongside a Disney character, and want to get a photo of the scene themselves. It's one thing if a person is invading your personal space or banging shoulders with you, but I think it's asking a lot for everyone within a given radius that wants such a photo to engage in permission seeking from you before doing so.

If she feels uncomfortable at all, perhaps it's because she's picking up visual clues from you and your discomfort with the situation.

As for your instinct, I can't help but point out a major disconnect in the logic of trying to protect your daughter's image from being misappropriated for less than honorable purposes. You mentioned the costumes and I wasn't sure if that was a large penguin next to a CM Mary Poppins, or it was your daughter in your avatar. I then noticed your Flikr link in your signature. I followed the link, and lo and behold there are many dozens of photos of your daughter, in the costumes, posing with Disney characters. These photos are available for anonymous downloading by anyone on the Internet. What do your instincts tell you about some of the millions of people that surf Flikr as opposed to the hundreds of park goers that may see your daughter with the characters while you're in the park in a given day? You've even helped out and tagged the photos. I did a test search on Disneyland princess names and found your daughter's photos within the first few pages. If you're really that concerned about the misappropriation of your daughter's photos, doesn't it seem like you're guarding the front door while leaving the side door wide open? Honestly.

I never said anything about the images being misappropriated. I do know we're already "out there" with the images so it's a moot point. And like I said, I "get" that we're asking for it. Heck, my daughter enjoys the attention. We love the costume play, and the special interactions it gets us with the characters. I love the special pictures I get to bring home and scrapbook.

My daughter LOVED the time the Brazilian tour group asked to pose with her. And she loves to pose with other patrons. She also gets a big kick out of it when the CM's pull out their own camera and ASK politely if they can take her photo.

I think I'm just offended by the presumptuousness of some people. Like I said, a little common courtesy goes a long way. Don't get so close that I have to trip over YOU to get MY pictures.

Once you take me out of the equation though (given that we all agree we sort of ask for it) I still think taking pictures of other peoples' kids in a one on one with the characters is really not right (even though it may be legal), and is slightly intrusive. Which is why this is the ONE setting where CM's will ask you not to do it.

[Geoff_M]

I never said anything about the images being misappropriated.Then what was your concern about the shooter in this case:The bottom line for me is my instinct. ... But I will continue to trust my instincts. 9 times out of 10 it has been fine. This last time it wasn't.You make it sound like the 10th shooter presents a threat to your daughter and your mother senses went tingly on you. If you were just saying "Hey, do you mind?!?!" when he got in front of you, that doesn't require instinct to want the guy to get out of the way. That's why I thought you were talking about nefarious characters and wanting people to ask for your approval before taking a photo.

Once you take me out of the equation though (given that we all agree we sort of ask for it) I still think taking pictures of other peoples' kids in a one on one with the characters is really not right (even though it may be legal), and is slightly intrusive.Fair enough, I just don't understand how people can look at a character meet-n-greet out in the open in the middle of a Disney park and see some sort of expectation of privacy, or even semi-privacy, that can be intruded on by also taking a photo of it. I come home with hundreds of strangers' in my photos from each Disney trip.. some times prominently displayed, sometimes not. To me they're just "scenery". My family and I are no doubt "scenery" in some of the photos of people on the DIS.

[mom2rtk]

Then what was your concern about the shooter in this case:You make it sound like the 10th shooter presents a threat to your daughter and your mother senses went tingly on you. If you were just saying "Hey, do you mind?!?!" when he got in front of you, that doesn't require instinct to want the guy to get out of the way. That's why I thought you were talking about nefarious characters and wanting people to ask for your approval before taking a photo.

Well, I think it was a little of both. I didn't think that guy was a pervert or anything. But having someone crowd in THAT close was uncomfortable on many levels, and mostly just incredibly rude. I would expect anyone THAT close to ask permission, just as the CM's do. Someone walking by, I wouldn't expect to ask. Although as I said, taking us out of the equation since we are "out there", I do feel differently about it. And it depends on the location too. Out in the middle of the park with thousands of people around is one thing. Back behind a wall in Princess Fantasy Faire (similar to the Judge's Tent in Toon town) I would expect something different.



Fair enough, I just don't understand how people can look at a character meet-n-greet out in the open in the middle of a Disney park and see some sort of expectation of privacy, or even semi-privacy, that can be intruded on by also taking a photo of it. I come home with hundreds of strangers' in my photos from each Disney trip.. some times prominently displayed, sometimes not. To me they're just "scenery". My family and I are no doubt "scenery" in some of the photos of people on the DIS.


I just want to go on record saying that following this parade, I had every camera in the park confiscated! :rotfl2:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3136/2626318625_65cf9169c4.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28159731@N02/2626318625/) Grand Marshalls Stars and Cars (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28159731@N02/2626318625/) by mom2rtk (http://www.flickr.com/people/28159731@N02/), on Flickr

[WDWFigment]

Well, I think it was a little of both. I didn't think that guy was a pervert or anything. But having someone crowd in THAT close was uncomfortable on many levels, and mostly just incredibly rude. I would expect anyone THAT close to ask permission, just as the CM's do. Someone walking by, I wouldn't expect to ask. Although as I said, taking us out of the equation since we are "out there", I do feel differently about it. And it depends on the location too. Out in the middle of the park with thousands of people around is one thing. Back behind a wall in Princess Fantasy Faire (similar to the Judge's Tent in Toon town) I would expect something different.






I just want to go on record saying that following this parade, I had every camera in the park confiscated! :rotfl2:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3136/2626318625_65cf9169c4.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28159731@N02/2626318625/) Grand Marshalls Stars and Cars (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28159731@N02/2626318625/) by mom2rtk (http://www.flickr.com/people/28159731@N02/), on Flickr


Your last comment about 'having every camera in the park confiscated' sort of goes to my thoughts on this. I am supposed to be working on a project at work right now, so I will just copy and paste our experience from my TR rather than retype it so it's completely relevant:

As we were heading towards the front, we saw Princess Tiana for the very first time ever. Seeing the insanely long line for her, we knew there was no way we’d be able to get our picture with her. Still, we wanted to get a couple of pictures of just her. As I started to take a picture, a woman moved in front of my camera. Now, what follows here is, I’m sure, going to be a divisive subject, but please bear in mind that I myself am not even sure how I feel about it. I am just soliciting feedback.

I moved and started to take another picture, when a woman positioned on the other side of the exit gate said, “excuse me, I don’t want you taking pictures of my son.” I responded that we weren’t taking pictures of her son, just the character. She said, “don’t take them while my son is there.” Not wanting any issues, we waited until she left (and to her credit, she thanked us) to take the pictures. Now, I don’t completely understand the cause for concern here, but I realize there is cause, and it’s not just limited to her. I’ve been told the same thing by Cast Members before (I must look like a creep, huh?), so I imagine there have been complaints by other parents in the past to occasion Cast Members saying this type of thing.

That said, and while I respect concerns about a child’s safety, I don’t really think this is realistic. Well, perhaps I should put that differently as I realize people can do inappropriate things with pictures: I think taking your kids to WDW is very inconsistent with having concerns of people taking pictures of your children. If you really have that concern, taking kids to WDW is a terrible idea since you can’t control every picture taken in the parks. While this mother could prevent us from taking pictures of her kid when we approached the gate and made it patently obvious that we were taking pictures, there is no way she could prevent all pictures of her kid from being taken, especially any intentionally taken in a clandestine manner. In fact, I’m sure many pictures were taken of her son that trip inadvertently, just where he happened to walk into the background of a shot someone else happened to be taking. Don’t get me wrong, I think the potential kinds of abuses people could make with pictures of children are abhorrent, but short of never letting your children go out in public, it’s not at all preventable; since it doesn’t directly cause harm to the kids, maybe it’s not worth effort as a parent to protect-against. Does what I’m writing here make sense, or is this unreasonable on my part? Am I just bitter because I had to wait to take my picture. I really don’t think so, but I’m also not a parent, so perhaps I’m only seeing this from my perspective. I really am not sure of what to think.

[Poohbear5]

Oh my goodness!! In raising three kids including very identical twins, I've had many strangers start up conversations. It would never have occurred to me to "get freaked out" if they were photographing a character or landmark with my kids in the photo!

Is there a big chance the average tourist at Disney is going to use my kids' photo for evil doings??

Yes, we need to caution our kids against bad guys and train them appropriately to deal with situations (always stay with a buddy, what to do and where to seek help if something doesn't feel right..).

But flipping out over another tourist getting your child in a photo is going to make for one uptight, distrustful kid!
We're on vacation people! Relax! Go with the flow!

[MOmousefan]

I guess the "Is This You" thread might make some people mad.