I have a confession to make... and a warning!

[TigrLvsPooh]

Last March I bought park hopper passes on ebay. I have used ebay many times for buying and selling, but I have NEVER bought my Disney tickets there before. The seller had 125 positive feedbacks and no negatives and the "buy it now" price for two adult 7-day park hopper PLUS tickets was $350!!!! That is a fabulous deal and we were sooooo excited! :) The seller was in Germany... he and his girlfriend had just returned from a trip to the US to go to WDW. Originally they had 2 friends who were going to meet them there, but at the last minute they couldn't come. So he had 2 extra tickets that had never been used! He said he bought them at the TTC and they had been in his wallet since that moment. What luck!! ;)

About a month later we arrived in WDW and while we were checking in at OKW we had the CM scan the park hoppers for us to check them out. Then the worst possible thing happened... the CM said, "You have 2 plus options left on each ticket". :eek: :eek: NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! All SEVEN park days on BOTH tickets were used. :eek: :eek: :eek: My heart dropped to the pit of my stomach. I just burst into tears and ran out to the curb. I just couldn't believe it! We had sent that man $350 (which is a lot of money for us) and we had nothing to show for it. No park hoppers, nothing. :( :( :( I didn't know what to do. I didn't have to sellers phone # with me, not that he would have done anything about, so the only choice was to ask our parents to send us the money as soon as possible to buy new tickets. :( :(

We enjoyed our vacation, but I just felt sick the whole time... how could someone do this to us?? The seller KNEW we had a 9 month old infant and 2 year old son traveling with us... he KNEW that money was tight for us. :( :( I was so angry and hurt. I felt so stupid for trusting him, and for trusting ebay. :(

When we returned home I immediately contacted the seller, ebay, Paypal, and my credit card company. The seller said he didn't believe me... he said there was NO WAY that the tickets were used. Later I found out that he had bought them on the street near the Days Inn in Orlando!!! :eek: :eek: After he TOLD me he had purchased them at the TTC. :mad: So I assume someone took advantage of the fact that he was from Germany and didn't know. :(

After a long battle with ebay, paypal, and Capitol One, I finally got my $350 back just NOW! :eek: :D It was a horrible ordeal to go through. I had to file a fraud report with ebay, paypal was NO help... they basically said it wasn't their fault. Finally Capitol One gave me my money back... but they said the case will still be open for one year. :eek:

What's the moral to this story??? NEVER buy park hopper passes from a stranger. Believe me, it's WORTH paying extra just so you know the tickets are real and unused. I wouldn't wish this horrible situation on my worst enemy. I had so many sleepless nights... it was terrible. :(

[SPAGo 98]

it's also illegal. sorry you had to learn the hard way.

[TigrLvsPooh]

There are pages and pages of tickets for sale on ebay. How can it be illegal??? Wouldn't ebay get in trouble for that???? :confused:

[SPAGo 98]

i'm pretty sure the backs of the tickets say "non transferable" or whatever. pass is to be used by one person for the entire time.

not sure how that applies to unused passes, but with these magnetic strip ones, it's impossible to tell how many days are left on the ticket without going to guest services with it.

[TigrLvsPooh]

Ebay states in their policies that they don't allow people to sell partially used tickets... but it happens anyway. I thought I was buying unused tickets, but I guess I learned my lesson. :( I've heard that there are ticket booths all over Orlando that buy and sell partially used passes. :eek: It seems like the police wouldn't allow that???? :confused:

[Dan Murphy]

Thanks for your sharing, Erika, that others here can be made aware of such scams. People can be such spiteful, uncaring things, all for a buck. Glad it looks like you are made whole, albeit time and aggravation later.

[WDW2002]

IMO, it is better to be safe then sorry, buy your tickets from Disney or a "trusted" source like AAA.

[Doctor P]

Thanks for the warning. Sorry you had to learn this hard lesson. Glad you ultimately got some satisfaction.

[tiggerlover]

I am so sorry for your horrible experience. Thank you for sharing so that others can be aware of the evils that are out there.

:bounce::wave::bounce:

[dianeschlicht]

I would never buy tickets and assume they were not used, but I also do not buy anything on Ebay anymore, because I lost over $1500 on two different sales a coupld years ago. I was unable to get ANYTHING back, because the problem was beyond the 30 day period, and Ebay wouldn't do anything. I also had sent cashiers checks, so I was SOL! I don't even LOOK at Ebay anymore. They have never been able to stand behind their so-called "policy" as far as I am concerned!:mad:

[TigrLvsPooh]

Yes, I agree... the ebay "Buyer Protection" is a load of crap. They did absolutely nothing to help me or to punish the seller. I don't buy anything there anymore either. Same goes with Paypal... they didn't even investigate my claim, they just sent a form letter that says they don't get involved. :(

I will always buy my passes directly from Disney from now on.

[hercamore]

Sorry, Erika.

Thanks for sharing your story.


Herc.

[Deb in IA]

I used to be a very trusting person too. After seeing the terrible things people can and do pertetrate on their fellow man (and woman), I don't trust anyone anymore.

We always buy our tickets from a Disney Store or from the park itself. It is not worth trying to save some $$ and end up with the aggravation.

Sorry about your experience, TigrLvsPooh . . .

[A kid at heart]

Never buy tickets from someone you don't know.

[Big V]

It took a lot of guts to admit your mistake, but everyone makes them.:rolleyes: Thanks for sharing your story and I hope it helps others to make the right decisions.:cool:

[Mackey Mouse]

Sorry Erika.. I do not know what is up with Ebay lately... I do buy there all the time and sell as well.. but recently I had an issue with a seller who totally misrepresented her item and got absolutely no help from Ebay...I was only out $70 compared to your over $300...I now only buy from sellers that I have done business with before and know their quality..

I think that for something like tickets I would never use Ebay.. I would only use AAA or Disney..too much chance for fraud there.. Sorry this happened to you... :)

[s&k'smom]

Wow that's an amazing story. Thanks for sharing. And I will heed your warning.

[snoopy]

I stopped going to ebay when some crazy woman started sending me threatening emails claiming I didn't pay for something I bought from her, even though I had a copy of the cancelled check. It was truly frightening, since she had my address.

So sorry this happened to you. :( I can just imagine how you felt down there with your two small children and no tickets. :( Thank goodness your family was able to help you out though.

Thanks for the warning, you may have saved someone alot of money and aggravation.

[Boots]

{{{{HUGS}}}} Sorry this had to happen, but thanks for sharing your story!

[patsal]

Gosh Erica this just has not been your year when it comes to trying to save money. I am so sorry that this happened to you, and I am glad that you got your money back. What a horrible inconvienience when you believe you are all set for your vacation!

[antnee]

Unfortunately those are the risks involved with purchases over the web. Glad Capitol One stepped in. Try discounts from more relaible resources like Magic Kingdom club or Amex :D

[Blondie]

Thanks for sharing your story. I'm sorry you got taken advantage of.

I work with lots of people who are so addicted to E-Bay....but I've never gotten into it...and I don't trust just anyone with my money, especially a stranger!

[nativetxn]

I'm sorry this happened to you :( Very expensive lesson to learn. Thanks for sharing this with us you probably saved a lot of headaches for others by telling this story.

[ead79]

How awful for you! I am so glad to hear that you finally got your money back.

[queenvic]

It is definitely illegal to sell your unused tickets on Ebay. The tickets are non-transferable. Ebay knows this and they periodically audit and remove them if they're out there. I know a girl who tried to sell hers on Ebay and she was sent an e-mail which told her she was not allowed to do so. And, of course, they were taken off.

Sorry for your trouble Erica. That would absolutely be the worst thing. I too am glad that your credit card company stepped up to the plate. Thank you for sharing your story so that the rest of us can benefit from your experience.

[DaisyDebbie]

Once again, if it seems to good to be true, it probably is!

[SnowWitch]

I'm so sorry that happned to you. My DH buys things on e-bay and it drives me nuts. He is so assured by e-bays policy, he's going to have to read this thread.

I have often scanned e-bays Disney tickets and dining vouchers and found them to be a rip off. Last week there was someone selling 6 lunch and casual dining counnections vouchers. We all know this is $66 but there were people bidding $168 for them. I about fell out of my chair!!!!!:rolleyes:

[Kitty 34]

Thankyou for sharing your story. Sorry you had to learn the hard way.:(

[Keli]

Whoa, what a terrible experience! If I was ever tempted to do this before I certainly won't be now. I'm really glad it all worked out for you though in the end.

[TigrLvsPooh]

I wanted to post this story so that other people won't make the same mistake I did. I had way to much faith in ebay, paypal, and the seller. He really seemed like the nicest person. We talked several times through email.

As far as it being illegal... ebay policy states that you can not sell partially used tickets, but they do allow people to sell unused tickets. Not just for Disney World but for other amusement parks, sporting events, music concerts, etc. The seller was not punished at all... he continues to sell on ebay. I even called Disney to report what happened and they said they are totally aware that ebay sells tickets as well as ticket brokers. In fact, ticket brokers have their own seller accounts on ebay.

I definitely learned my lesson! ;) It's good to make all your mistakes in your twenties anyway, right??? LOL :p

[nativetxn]

Right Erika ;) So glad you got your money back after all :)

[HockeyDadof2]

Originally posted by queenvic
It is definitely illegal to sell your unused tickets on Ebay. The tickets are non-transferable. Ebay knows this and they periodically audit and remove them if they're out there. I know a girl who tried to sell hers on Ebay and she was sent an e-mail which told her she was not allowed to do so. And, of course, they were taken off.

Sorry for your trouble Erica. That would absolutely be the worst thing. I too am glad that your credit card company stepped up to the plate. Thank you for sharing your story so that the rest of us can benefit from your experience.


I know it is against WDW policy for the tickets to be transfered, but what makes it illegal?

[Toby'sFriend]

It's regulated by Florida State Law. If you go to EBAY here

http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-tickets.html
You can find the links for varying state regulations.

EBAY's Fraud Protection Service will only protect buyers for the first $200 and they deduct a $25 processing fee. But they won't cover an item at all if it is illegal or doesn't meet their listing requirements, which these tickets didn't. They also ALWAYS want you to contact your credit card company first and try to get them to handle it. I agree 100% though that at the minimum EBAY should revoke this seller's account once they have been notified what he pulled off.

I'm really happy that you got your money back through the Credit Card Company.

[TigrLvsPooh]

EBAY's Fraud Protection Service will only protect buyers for the first $200 and they deduct a $25 processing fee.

Yes, but here's the kicker! Ebay will only consider giving you the partial refund *IF* you have a letter from your credit card company stating that they refuse to "charge back" the full amount. They won't give you a penny without that letter.

But they won't cover an item at all if it is illegal or doesn't meet their listing requirements, which these tickets didn't.

I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong. The transaction was never considered "illegal" and it *DID* meet all listing requirements. Disney park hopper passes are allowed to be sold on ebay and are sold there everyday. The only time they will cancel an auction is if you state in your listing that the tickets are partially used.

Here are the email I received from ebay reguarding this matter.

If you used a credit card to pay for your item, then you will need to contact your credit card company to file a 'charge back' or some other form of dispute. Since many creditors have deadlines for such actions, I encourage you to take this extra step as early as possible. If you are unsuccessful in obtaining the charge back, please forward that information to your eBay Claims Administrator.

Please be aware that all fraud protection claims must be filed within 90 days from the end of the auction. To file a fraud protection claim, please fill out the claim form, at the link provided below, and mail it to the eBay Claims Administrator:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/frs-claimform.html

Please be sure to include all of the following:

1. The completed Fraud Protection Claim Form.

2. A copy of the end of auction notice or the auction page.

3. Proof of payment, i.e., photocopy of the front and back of money order, cashiers check, personal check, etc.

4. Any other supporting documentation

Once you have compiled the above, please mail to:

Fraud Protection Program
Attn: Claims Administration Dept.
P.O. Box 188
Draper, Utah 84020

Once our Claims Administrator receives your claim, they will review the documentation, assign a claims adjuster, and contact you regarding your claim usually within 45 days of the receipt of the above documents. You may address any questions regarding the claim directly to the claims adjuster assigned to your case.

Thanks again for filing a fraud complaint.

Regards,

Rafael
eBay SafeHarbor
Investigations Team
______________________________
eBay
Your Personal Trading Community (tm)


Hello Erika,

Thank you for writing in and letting us know of this difficult
experience.

Fortunately, there are some options available as you try to resolve this situation with the other eBay user. I've included a link to these options and other important information below:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/rulesandsafety/43110001.html

On this page you will find several options, and I truly hope one of them will help:

· Contact the seller over the phone.
· File an online Fraud Report between 30 and 60 days from the end of the auction.
· File a Fraud Protection Claim within 90 days from the end of the
auction.*
· File a Dispute Claim with our online mediator Square Trade.
· Contact the NFIC (The National Fraud Information Center).
· File mail fraud charges.

VERY IMPORTANT: If you paid for this item with a credit card or a debit card, please get in touch with your debit or credit card company as soon as possible. If the product was misrepresented or never delivered, you may be eligible to file a chargeback claim disputing the charge. Most card issuers provide full consumer protection in instances of online fraud. Your card issuer can provide you with detailed information about your chargeback rights. To contact your issuer, call their customer service number, which is usually printed on the back of the card or on your monthly statement. If you used another method of payment besides a credit or debit card or your chargeback claim is not successful, please file a Fraud Protection Claim with eBay.

We are very happy to provide you with these services. Our goal is for every member to have a safe buying experience on eBay.

Before I go I would like to discuss the possible action we may take against the seller's account. Please be assured, if a violation of eBay policy has occurred we will take the appropriate action based on the results of our investigation. Such actions may include issuing a warning, temporary suspension, indefinite suspension or terminating the membership.

We can understand your desire to know what action we may have taken. However, because privacy concerns are important to everyone we are not at liberty to discuss the details of another user's account. This would include information regarding the reasons for any action we may take against another account and the length of a suspension. We hope that you understand our position in this situation. We also hope that it assures
you that your personal account history will always remain private.

Thank you for using eBay for your online trading needs.

Regards,

Keiff
eBay SafeHarbor
Investigations Team
______________________________


Hello Erika,

Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your concerns. I would be happy to assist you further.

There are many reasons why you may not get a detailed response about your complaint once the matter has been thoroughly investigated. Sometimes we take legal action on the account, but due to eBay's Privacy Policy I am prevented from revealing our actions. Also, eBay is unable to comment on the disciplinary action it takes against a fraudulent account. However, consequences range from contacting the member to issue
a warning, long or short-term suspension, or terminating the membership.


All complaints are individually investigated, and the appropriate action is always taken in accordance with our site policies and guidelines. I realize that you may wish to know what exactly was done. However, to maintain the principles that eBay was founded upon we are unable to give you details on the disciplinary action taken against another member's account. You can review the status of another member's account to see if they are still active on the site by looking at their feedback page. To do this, enter their User ID into the "Feedback Profile" section of the
following web page:

http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MemberSearchShow

Please note, the online fraud complaint and a Fraud Protection claim are two separate reports. If you have not already done so and are eligible to file a Fraud Protection claim for reimbursement, you will need to submit your claim via mail within 90 days from the end of the auction. I have listed the documentation that must be submitted with your claim below:

1. A completed, signed claim form
2. Proof of Payment; i.e. a copy of the cancelled check, money order, cashiers check etc. Please be aware if you paid for your transaction via a credit card (whether through a third party payment company or directly to the seller), you will need to contact your credit card company and request reimbursement before your claim can be processed by eBay.
3. A copy of the completed eBay listing page.
4. Any additional documentation.

You can obtain a copy to the claim form at the link below:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/frs-claimform.html

Once you have the above information compiled, please mail it within 90 days to the address below:

Fraud Protection Program
Attn: eBay Claims Administrator
P.O. Box 188
Draper, Utah 84020

Thank you for being part of the eBay community.

Regards,

Kaley
eBay SafeHarbor
Investigations Team
______________________________


Hello Erika,

Thank you for writing eBay and I am very sorry to hear about this situation.

I appreciate you keeping us updated on this matter. It is unfortunate that you have not been able to resolve this with your trading partner. I urge you to consider the other suggestions previously mentioned in our past email to you.
Thank you for being part of the eBay community and I wish you the best of luck in resolving this situation.

Regards,

Raven Ross
eBay SafeHarbor
Investigations Team
______________________________
eBay


:rolleyes:

[TigrLvsPooh]

Here is the ebay policy for events in Florida. As you can see they *do* allow people to sell event tickets (like WDW passes) as long as they aren't used and they aren't over face value. Neither the seller or buyer (me) live in the state of Florida.

For events in Florida, eBay permits resales of tickets by sellers in Florida at no greater than face value plus $1 per ticket for all entertainment events held in the state. For tickets to Florida events sold by non-Florida residents, bidders within Florida may not bid above face value plus $1. In addition, eBay does not permit the sale of multi-day or multi-event tickets that have been used at least once for admission.

[Toby'sFriend]

but the tickets were used and that is what makes them illegal.

I understand that you were unaware that the tickets were partially used, but that doesn't change the fact that the item itself was illegal and should have never been listed.

As I said, this sellers account should be revoked because of his fraud and misrepresentation.

As I said -- I'm really happy you got your money back through the credit card company. Thankfully their online protection policy is much more helpful.

[TigrLvsPooh]

The seller just played dumb, he somehow convinced ebay that he was totally unaware the tickets were used. I'm not sure if I believe him... I know he doesn't speak English too well, but he kept assuring me he bought them at the TTC, when he actually bought them on the street. :mad:

I know for a fact he's still selling. I check his ebay profile about once a month to see if they have suspended him yet. Also I have noticed that he still does business through paypal, so they didn't suspend him either. It's just amazing!!! :confused:

[C.Ann]

You know, I actually cried when I read this post.. I put myself in your shoes and when you said that you just ran out to the curb and started crying - well - that's when I started crying.. Like you, it would have nagged at me throughout the entire trip and definitely put a damper on things..

I'm just SO glad that you got your money back.. It was an honest mistake on your part - you trusted someone who seemed trustworthy - and you shouldn't beat yourself up for it.. It took a LOT of courage to come on this board and reveal this so that you could prevent the same thing from happening to someone else.. Something tells me that you are a VERY special person..

Thanks for sharing..
C.Ann

[HockeyDadof2]

I am seriously missing something here. People keep saying that selling these tickets is "Illegal" what do you mean by this? Is there a criminal statute that makes this illegal or do you mean that it's agains the policy? Just because the tickets say that they aren't transferable doesn't make it illegal to sell them it makes it against WDW policy (or Ebay policy) and makes them subject to not being honored, I assume. I do understand that misrepresenting them would constitute fraud, but I am trying to figure out how selling the tickets in good faith and w/o fraud is "illegal".

[CarolA]

Not being a lawyer I can't find the law. However, it is my understanding that Florida law prohibts the sale of these partially used tickets. Disney and Florida law do allow ticket brockers to sell new tickets so I think the issue is the fact that once you have used a ticket it is yours. Years ago when they just stamped the ticket for the date used it was pretty easy to tell if a ticket was used, now... you just have no way of knowing until you hit the park.

[glo]

What a horrible thing to have to go through...I am so sorry. I would never do it either, but lots of people do not know...HUGS

[HockeyDadof2]

Thank you so much!!

I remember our first "park hopper tickets" had our pictures on them and each time they were used the stamp was applied. Sometimes inovative new processes solve old problems but open up new ones.

[Toby'sFriend]

Here ya go HockeyDad

You can find the entire statute here

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0817/SEC361.HTM&Title=->2002->Ch0817->Section%20361

but the part you are looking for says

817.361 Resale of multiday or multievent ticket.--Whoever offers for sale, sells, or transfers in connection with a commercial transaction, with or without consideration, any nontransferable ticket or other nontransferable medium designed for admission to more than one amusement location or other facility offering entertainment to the general public, or for admission for more than 1 day thereto, after said ticket or other medium has been used at least once for admission, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. A nontransferable ticket or other nontransferable medium is one on which is clearly printed the phrase: "Nontransferable; must be used by the same person on all days" or words of similar import. Upon conviction for a second or subsequent violation of this subsection, such person is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

[TigrLvsPooh]

Disney and Florida law do allow ticket brockers to sell new tickets so I think the issue is the fact that once you have used a ticket it is yours. Years ago when they just stamped the ticket for the date used it was pretty easy to tell if a ticket was used, now... you just have no way of knowing until you hit the park.

That's the problem. Anyone can take a used 7 day park hopper pass and sell it on ebay as an unused 4 day park hopper because there is no way to prove it. (unless the buyer complains) I'm sure it happens many times everyday. I think the whole ticket process needs to be changed. If Disney and the state government are going to allow people to sell tickets then they should put a # on each ticket and have a phone number people can call to see if the tickets have ever been used, and if so, how many days are left on the tickets. Then, on ebay for example, the buyer could call the phone number first to check that the tickets are actually unused. Would have saved me a lot of trouble.

I am seriously missing something here. People keep saying that selling these tickets is "Illegal" what do you mean by this? Is there a criminal statute that makes this illegal or do you mean that it's agains the policy? Just because the tickets say that they aren't transferable doesn't make it illegal to sell them it makes it against WDW policy (or Ebay policy) and makes them subject to not being honored, I assume. I do understand that misrepresenting them would constitute fraud, but I am trying to figure out how selling the tickets in good faith and w/o fraud is "illegal".

It's definitely not illegal. If it was then ebay would be bankrupt on lawsuits. There are pages and pages of tickets for sale everyday. Not to mention all those ticket booths around Florida.

Maybe it should be illegal?? That would solve the whole problem. ;)

[TigrLvsPooh]

817.361 Resale of multiday or multievent ticket.--Whoever offers for sale, sells, or transfers in connection with a commercial transaction, with or without consideration, any nontransferable ticket or other nontransferable medium designed for admission to more than one amusement location or other facility offering entertainment to the general public, or for admission for more than 1 day thereto, after said ticket or other medium has been used at least once for admission, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. A nontransferable ticket or other nontransferable medium is one on which is clearly printed the phrase: "Nontransferable; must be used by the same person on all days" or words of similar import. Upon conviction for a second or subsequent violation of this subsection, such person is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

OK, help me out here, this basically says that as long as the park hopper has never been used by anyone then it's OK to sell it. But selling *used* park hoppers is illegal. That's the same statement ebay has in their rules.

In my case, since the auction stated that the tickets were unused, then I didn't do anything wrong, right? Once ebay found out that the seller had committed an illegal transaction they still did nothing though. So are they at fault?? I wonder if my credit card company will pursue anything against ebay???

[NancyIL]

Thanks for sharing your story with the people of the DIS. I'm glad your credit card company came through for you.

We have friends who bought a brand new computer for their son for college on ebay for about $2000. Guess what they got........NOTHING! They paid with a cashier's check - so there's no help from a credit card company. That was in April, and they still haven't gotten their money back - although the case is going to court soon. Buyer beware!

[d.kurz]

Thanks for sharing your story. I use e-bay, but don't spend more than $20.00 a transaction. I almost lost $600.00 on a computer purchase a few years back. DH had to get ummmm....forceful.....and he got my money back!!!

[gumdrop]

Oh Erika I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. I am too trusting and would have jumped at the chance to purchase those tickets too. I am glad that you were credited the money. I am dealing with a dishonest ebayer myself. He purchased an item from me right before my Disney trip a few weeks ago and said I wouldn't be able to mail it out until I got home. He said the item was a bday gift and the money was already in the mail. I believed him, sent the item the day before I left and still no money. I'm out 60.00. ebay did give me his number so I call every other day, and he is suspended from ebay. Ebay did get my hopes up because they offer a credit refund. I got 2.78 back which was my starting price and listing fees. I thought I was going to get the full 60.00!! Now I have really strict selling policies. Thanks so much for sharing your story. Don't feel you're alone though--as I mentioned before, I tend to think people are more honest than not, and would have bought the tickets myself.