Pool Hopping Mad!! Happened to us too!

[Scarlet]

Hello, well LIDisneyFan, you are not alone. The
very same incident happend to myself and my 6 yr old daughter at BWV pool on Friday 4/13. We had
been there for about 1 1/2 hours when they came
around and starting asking for ID's. Another family sitting next to us was asked to leave first. They protested, as did I, but the interesting twist was that the other family had a couple with them who had JUST finished the DVC tour; they still had the handouts with them. The
recreation manager was very hesitant to make a scene because of the prospective DVC members, but
eventually told us ALL that we would be escorted out by SECURITY GUARDS if we did not leave the pool. I was staying at OKW because I could not get a room at our home resort BWV, and had promised my daughter we would visit and use the slide. The rec. mgr. argued that "people are paying $500/night to stay here and can't get a chair." I argued back that I have paid over $12,000 to OWN at BWV and that I deserved a seat as much as anyone else. I also mentioned that they should be checking ID as you enter the pool, not having you escorted out after being there for a while. I was so humiliated when they threatened to have security take us out I started to cry. My 6 yr old daughter was completely freaked out that we were being treated like criminals at our own home resort. The entire incident shook me for the rest of the day. I went there in good faith to enjoy the afternoon.
I would NOT have risked the embarrassment or aggravation of being kicked out if I had any remote idea that pool hopping was not going to be allowed. My daughter called my mother as soon as we got back to OKW and the first thing out of her
mouth was about "the mean lady who wouldn't let us swim". Nice image for her to have of her Disney trip. I am writing letters demanding an
apology from the rec. mgr. (who gave me her card if I wanted to pursue the matter), and I am calling my guide as well. Very, very poorly handled.

Scarlet
BWV '99

[tarzanman]

I definitely think that Disney needs to make a quick fix here. If they are causing this many issues at BWV, then they need to have a system immediately.

some trips as a child
DxL 4/00
DVC member 4/00
BWV 9/00, 12/01
VB 9/00, 5/01
DCL 1/01, 12/01-1/02 New Years Cruise
OKW 1/01

http://gennaroworld.topcities.com

[LisaR]

Scarlet,
I am so sorry this happened to you. I notice a trend starting at BWV.
Here is my take on the whole pool hoping situation:

This is a privledge that can be taken away at anytime. HOWEVER, I think it is rude, inconsiderate, embarrasing, etc, etc to kick someone out of the pool area once they are already there - assuming they are cash paying customers, there on points or DVC members. They need a way to check ID's when people enter the pool area. If the pool area is truly filled up with ONLY cash paying customers, people staying at BWV on points and other DVC members staying elsewhere, then yes, those other DVC members should be the first to go. However, when they randomly select people to kick out, the process of elimination isn't fair.

Wouldn't most of us rather show up at a pool and be told right then and there that the pool is closed to pool hoping instead of being kick out a few hours later? Wouldn't ALL of us LOVE to show our DVC membership upon entering the pool area to show that we are members and not just someone staying at the Holiday Inn that came by for a swim?

I understand that the pool area may be empty at noon and full 2 hours later but BWV does know the occupancy of the hotel and there are trends in most pool occupancy at different times of the day. They know the pool is busiest in the middle of the day then the morning, etc. They better come up with a better plan or they are going to tick off a lot more people.

I will stick with OKW. The no slide thing is just fine for my family. The kids have a blast being in a huge pool and making new friends. I will say, I am thinking of adding on with some BWV points (enough for a weekend) and the whole attitude thing at BWV is making me rethink.

Lisa

[LauraS]

Scarlet, I'm so sorry that you and your daughter were asked to leave your home resort pool. I think it's incredibly rude for BWV staff to be asking BWV owners to leave that pool area once they've settled into chairs. If Luna Park use by members not staying at BWV is a problem, then why don't they put up a white picket fence like they did at SAB and check IDs. Hopefully this is just an unusual event that occured due to high crowds and high temps over Easter break. I hope so, because I don't like what I'm hearing from my fellow BWV owners.

My only advice to folks is to call the BWV Front desk before heading over to avoid this kind of humilation and stress. Disney is *totally* handling this the wrong way and it saddens me that they're humiliating members who have plunked down *thousands* of dollars for a membership in the DVC. I would absolutely write to everyone in the DVC and Disney Resort organization until I received some serious apologies.

We're heading down to BWV on April 28th and plan to do some SAB hopping. I'll let you all know how we make out. Hopefully we won't have any problems, but I'll be sure to call the Yacht before we bother heading over there.

Laura

[rallydoc]

let's face it. This is profiling plain and simple... Scarlet.. I've never seen you but ... well... you're a Yankee.. and that's why they did it. ;-)

As a new owner at VWL and a business owner I find it hard to believe that an orgnization as well put together as Disney didn't already have a plan in hand. From what i have experienced at Disney in the past I would like to give the cm the benefiet of the doubt, I can certainly imagine a guest even more irate than you hitting her desk and ranting for 30 min before she finally gave in and came out to clear the pool. I also don't recall anything in any guest contract for DVC or the resorts that says everyone gets to go to the pool or gets to sit down at the pool. If the guests don't have a place to swim then BWV (or whomever) could give them a pass to one of the big pools (I can't remember the name of the one with the snow ).

I'm sorry that it happened to anyone on this list. As a group this is the rabid disney love club. i can only imagine what would have happened if they had started that with a dad, like myself, who had only 2 hours of sleep after a 16 hour drive and had just been allowed to relax...

Gonna have to practice my Southern drawl.. ;-)

[Jimbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If the guests don't have a place to swim then BWV (or whomever) could give them a pass to one of the big pools (I can't remember the name of the one with the snow ).
[/quote]

Our friends tried to get into Blizzard Beach (the one with the snow) last week and were turned away because the park was at capacity. Maybe cast members should have gone through BB and tossed out people that they thought had been there long enough. ;)

I'll never understand why people want to visit WDW when it's this crowded. It seems to me that most people wind up being disappointed. We're going in about 17 days, 2 hours and 44 minutes, and the place should be much less crowded then.

No matter what, though, this BWV policy is out of line. IMHO.

[LauraS]

I'm also one of those folks who will never-ever go during Easter Break again. However, that week is so popular because many people can't pull their kids out of school when it is in session. We love to go down in late April/Early May because we get the nice weather and miss the horrific crowds. By this coming Sunday the crowds should drop considerably.

Laura

[KNWVIKING]

I imagine BWV was booked up.If all the guest staying at BWV suddenly decided to use the pool at the same time- this is purely hypothetical- what would they do. I doubt the pool could handle anywhere near that load. Would they post a CM at the entrance and turn people away ?

[Beachangel]

Scarlett, I'm sorry to hear about your embarrassing pool experience. I wish I could be more sympathetic but quite honestly, I don't feel that as an owner I have more rights than a cash guest. Suppose I was staying offsite - would that still give me the right to any DVC pool? I don't think so.

I'll be bold and say that I agree that if the pool area is crowded and you were not a BW guest, the CM was justified to ask those non-guests to leave so that registered guests could be accomodated at the pool.

"Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the THINKS you can think up, if only you try." Dr. Seuss

[Peggy Sue]

DVC has a problem here and needs to address it ASAP. They need to include information on how to "pool hop" upon check-in. Last year, when we checked in to OKW on 4/28, we were handed a sheet advising SAB was closed to pool hopping, however, it didn't have any information about how to check other resorts first to see if pool hopping was going to be allowed that day. We don't pool hop, so no big deal to us.

However, if a member has gone to another pool and was allowed it, I don't think it's right to ask them to leave after they've been there for awhile. If the resort was at capactiy, they should have had their CM's checking people upon arrival, and turning arway guests at that time.

Scarlet..just a curious question..did you call BWV or OKW front desk to check if BWV was available for pool hopping before you went over there?

So sorry this ruined your vacation for you and your daughter.

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[Rock'n Robin]

Scarlet I hope your daughter has other more enduring memories of your trip. I have a 6 year old and I know she would be just as upset.
We own BWV and have our first stay coming up in 64 days. I have some poolhopping at SAB and hopefully the Poly in our plans. I hope this type of thing doesn't happen then.
Perhaps DVC needs to amend the note about SAB being closed during Eastertime and add Luna Park to that list! And before next Easter!
Robin M.

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/jiminy05.gif

[A1A1]

Sorry to be a dissenter, but though I feel sympathy for your disappointment at not being able to continue your swim day at BWV by being asked to leave, if I were paying or using points to stay at BWV while you were there, and I couldn't get a chair at the pool, I would be mad and want you to leave also.

I own at BWV also, but would not fault anyone but myself if I couldn't get a room there and stayed somewhere else, went to use the pool at a resort at which I was not a registered guest, and then was asked to leave.

There is a capacity at these pools whether you own there or not.

What do you think would happen if every BWV owner who was down there at that time staying somewhere else decided it was there right to swim at the BWV pool? No room for anyone, including you.


We all should realize what time of year it is, and not get so testy about our rights as owners. Use common sense here. There is a capacity at all the pools, and those that should have first preference are those that are staying there at the time. Sorry.

I understand your embarassment, but I don't understand how you don't understand the limits that capacity places on the situation. If there are too many people at the pool, who do you suggest should go?

[This message was edited by A1A1 on 04-17-01 at 05:42 PM.]

[This message was edited by A1A1 on 04-17-01 at 06:01 PM.]

[Joeblack]

;) I don't quite understand why some people understand Scarlet's humiliation but cannot understand why she does not understand the situation. ;) (Geez I don't understand what I just wrote).

In any case. Go and read the other "Pool Hopping Mad" thread where UK Eagle gives a whole new perspective on this whole matter. It seems Scarlet and LIDsney had all the right to stay at the pool, and those rights are in written in the contract. Unfortunatley, those rights were abusively and flagrantly stepped all over by some bureaucrat.

Next time we should all make copies of the pages in the contract, put them in plastic covers and carry them along inside out DVC bag when we pool hop. And I really mean that!!

Sorry it happened to you Scarlet. You are totally right to be furious. Please do pursue the matter and let us know what DvC has to say).

[Peterd]

Scarlet, sorry to hear about the way you were treated. I would have been pretty upset myself. It's only a matter of time before DVC has to make a set policy on telling us when the pools are unavailable.
I can see why they are starting to check IDs though. You can't get a chair or lounge anymore. I know the Swan and Dolphin guests use the pool along with some Florida residents. Our trip in Feb. we were in the hottub with another woman, we got to talking, and I asked what type of room she was in. She said she just lives nearby, and brought her kids down weekly, something to the tone of Cheaper than chuckie cheese's.
I do think they did you wrong with the way things were handled, but it's gonna keep happening until they make a way of letting us know when poolhopping is not available. I would be curious to know how many non DVC hoppers were at the pool that day. Hope your next trip is better.

[Dean]

Actually pool hoping is not written into the contract, it's only mentioned in one sentence in the guidelines with no explanation or statement of policy. It can be taken away at any time and I would suspect this is the beginning of the end for pool hopping. No DVC member has the right to pool hop under the current guidelines, it's space available. I won't repeat my thoughts from the previous thread.

Sorry you had the problem and still seems a little un Disney like to handle things so poorly.

Dean

[Werner Weiss]

Dean wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It can be taken away at any time and I would suspect this is the beginning of the end for pool hopping.[/quote]
Why should this be the "beginning of the end" for pool hopping?

Why shouldn't this just be the beginning of improved communications between DVC and and DVC members? Pool hopping isn't complicated. Giving DVC members an easy way to check for any restrictions shouldn't be complicated either.

A lot of members like pool hopping. And pool hopping is a benefit that DVC salespeople present to prospective DVC customers.

The real "beginning of the end" for pool hopping should be around the time the pools close on January 31, 2042.

-----
Werner Weiss, Curator of Yesterland (http://www.yesterland.com), featuring discontinued Disneyland attractions

[DownNeckBoy]

Let's see if I understand your situation correctly, Scarlet.
You go down to WDW at one of the most crowded times of the year. As a matter of fact, the resort where you own, BWV, is so popular, that you are unable to secure a reservation for BWV at this time of the year. You then opt to stay at OKW, but still go to the pool at BWV, assuming that there will be sufficient room for you and your daughter. Then you are surprised and humiliated when you are asked to leave at the same time as the woman next to you.
Your anger seems misdirected and unjustified to me. Let's change the scenario somewhat. You are staying at an expensive resort. You have paid good money for the right to use ALL the accommodations and you are unable to get a chair at the pool because it is occupied by a non-paying party. Would that pose a problem for you? It would for me. Perhaps the CM did not handle it in the best manner possible, but I think that she was placed in a "no win" situation. Under the circumstances, she did what she had to do. I'm sorry this blighted your vacation, but I don't see how you could have expected otherwise.

[POLLY ANN]

DownNeckBoy, I think I would be upset on both sides of your scenario. But in Scarlet's defense, I think she had every right to go there as a DVC member with BW being her home resort. If it were me, I would have assumed I would have had no problem, busy or not.

Boardwalk definitely needs to set up a system like SAB. Scarlett and others should be turned away upon arrival, not after a few hours of being there.

That's my .02!!

formerly POLLYANNA35 http://a108.g.akamaitech.net/7/108/24/954ec432f3570d/disney.go.com/disneyvacationclub/images/members/rn_pic_1.jpg
http://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/family/dvcis.gif

DVC Member since 1995

[Peggy Sue]

Polly Ann,

Just because someone is a member of BWV and is staying else where does not guarantee them the right to use the BWV pool. The rules request you call the front desk first to confirm the resort you wish visit isn't at capacity and is allowing DVC members to visit their pool that day.

I think the problem is WDW isn't providing members with enough information about HOW to pool hop when they check in.

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[Scarlet]

DownNeckBoy said:You are staying at an expensive resort. You have paid good money for the right to use ALL the accommodations and you are unable to get a chair at the pool because it is occupied by a non-paying party.

Since when is a DVC owner a non-paying party?? I
have paid thousands of dollars in investments in
the BWV; and my monthly maintenance fees pay for that pool and that chair.

I don't see how you could have expected otherwise.

When was the last time you heard of BWV pool being closed to pool-hopping???? We have all heard of StormAlong Bay being closed to pool-hoppers, but I have read this and many other Disney boards for many moons and NEVER once heard of BWV being closed. If I expected otherwise, trust me, I would have stayed at OKW pool (where there were no chairs available either, by the way)
and not subjected myself or my daughter to the potential embarrassment or aggravation of being turned away. What parent would?

On a separate note, I did speak with the General Manager at BWV this afternoon, who was very, very
kind in his assessment of the situation. The pool
situation apparently escalated on Sat/Sun to the point they had to put temporary fencing around it and check ID's as people entered. He said they turned away 350 people. He also mentioned there will be a major meeting on this issue this week and he will add my commments to the agenda. My suggestion was that they limit the pool-hopping during peak times at ALL pools; and advise DVC owners in advance to avoid these disappointing and embarassing situations.

Scarlet
BWV '99

[Dean]

Werner, it has been rumoured for about a year that pool hopping was on the way out. Lets assume you're Disney and you are getting alot of complaints about now. You can chose to institute a more formal policy that is spelled out and somewhat restrictive or you can eliminate your problem, I know what I'd do if I were DVC. Regardless of the rumours, we've seen the policy go from Pool hoping, to SAB being closed without warning on the spur of the moment in ?97 to announcements the last few years that SAB was closed for Spring Break and now to sporatic and diffiuclt BW pool closings during Spring Break. Also at Poly where you can PH but can't park.

As I noted "I suspect" this is the beginning of the end, my opinion only and I have given you my main reasons for suspecting that.. As an experienced timeshare owner, you know not to believe anything that's not spelled out in writing so what the sales staff say is irrelevent if not in the contract or POS. Even if it were written out in the guidebook but not in the other documents, it could be changed or elimiated at DVC's discretion.

I also suspect that a minority of owners use this benefit and that the overall impact would be small from DVC's standpoint. Sure they'd have a vocal minority to deal with and I'm sure they will consider that and that is likely the only hope for the program to continue in some form. Since SAB is the main pool that is used for Pool Hopping, I suspect it will be closed for pool hopping around the opening of the BCV due to the built in extra traffic.

Dean

[mikesmom]

They do need a system to check ID as you enter the pool area. From comments here AND posts I have read elsewhere. there is a problem with folks who aren't DVC "hopping" in, folks who aren't staying at ANY wdw resort hopping in, and even folks who aren't visiting the parks at all coming in (the pushy neighbors).

If all those folks were kept from pool crashing I suspect there might be less of an issue with DVC owners getting in even in busy season.

[CaptainMidnight]

OK, so I guess the lesson here is call the front desk of the resort you plan to visit prior to visiting and make sure to write down the time you called and the name of the person providing you with the answer. If you are then told you can use the pool, then make your pool hopping visit.

But, would that really do anything if you were asked to leave the pool area and told you would be escorted out by security guards?

I'm sorry, but I don't see how ownership plays into this if you are using your points at another resort. I don't see that my BW ownership allows me to use the BW pool at any time, even though I'm staying at another resort. If I was staying at my BW resort and all the pool chairs were taken by people who were just visiting, and who did not properly check ahead to see if pool hopping was allowed during the busy Easter/Spring break week (when it is properly closed to pool hopping), and who were not even members, I would want CM's to take appropiate action and clear unauthorized person's from the pool area.

I guess this is all because OKW folks won't pay for a slide....(smile)....

I don't want to take pool chairs from properly staying guests in the resorts they are paying for or using points for during a peek vacation week, by my not properly following pool hopping policies when I'm visiting from another resort. I can just use my own resort's pool or pay for one of the water parks.

I'm concerned about people who aren't really following policies or who are really taking advantage of Disney's "freindliness" and abusing a priveledge and ultimitely causing its demise.

People complaining and raising a stink with this attitude that they should be able to deny BW cash or point using guests from the use of the pool at thier resort during peek vacation week doesn't past muster with me, and is just going to cause all of us to loose this priveledge.

Please reconsider the voracity with which you plan to complain. I'm not sure I agree with your position, especially when I'm was staying at BW and can't get a chair to use the pool outside my room door.

[BenStone]

After reading these posts for several days, I'm flabbergasted at the lack of comprehension of the way DVC ownership works. Allow me to quote Scarlet...and paraphrase LIDISNEY


<<Since when is a DVC owner a non-paying party?? I
have paid thousands of dollars in investments in
the BWV; and my monthly maintenance fees pay for that pool and that chair.>>


In actuality, you own nothing. If you think otherwise, try taking one of those pool chairs home with you after your visit. You simply own TIME (points) which allow you to use that "pool and chair" while you are a registered guest AT BWV. If you aren't a registered guest at the time of your removal, instead of being unhappy you should have been glad for the time you had AT the pool. I don't really mean to sound harsh but facts are facts. We all are adults so lets not try to skirt the rules.

Now, before all the "we have pool hopping privilege" people start screaming...again, you don't. Disney says who gets to stay and who goes. Again this is painfully obvious to those that are unprepared but it's there for all to read. Just because we "own" a membership does not give us imagined "rights" because we are on vacation.

"All opinions expressed are my own....for a small fee they can be yours too."

[Peterd]

Right now, Scarlet has a very good complaint. No one told us this is how they would handle this situation. As the rules are today, I wouldn’t bash any DVC owner for being upset about being asked to leave another DVC resort. If Scarlet and other DVC owners knew what the rules were before they went and then were asked to leave, they knew what to expect. Someone posted about the BW having a meeting this week about how to handle this new problem. I think it’s great, but they have to let the rest of the membership know about the results of the meeting.
Asking guest services doesn’t always help. Our past trip at the BW in Feb, we were going to go to IOA, and my mother in law and daughter wanted to just visit the Y and B. to relax at their pool. Before we left, I went down to guest services to ask if they were allowing pool hopping. She was new, never heard of it. I asked her to call Y and B guest services, another new one, never heard of it. So just to avoid embarrassment to all involved, there should be some sort of explanation to members and CMs.
We do like the option of Pool hopping, but I feel that it’s probably going to end very soon. I kind of feel that if they had some sort of way of monitoring who came in and out at the pools, it would still be a great thing. They don’t, except at the Y and B. It really isn’t fair to the people staying at the resort, if they can’t get a chair by the pool, while Dvcers not staying there and other visiting guests are taking them up.
They should have realized that after awhile this would happen. They blocked the Y and B., so it was just a matter of time. BW has the easy access to the pool and the parking for the parks. The Y and B has the one entry to the pool, the BW used to have children get a stamp on their hands at the towel area during busy times figuring this would reduce the non dvc hoppers. (I’m not sure if they still do that). We stay at the Boardwalk three different times of the year, and it seems you can never get a chair by the main pool.This is why we usually set up at the quiet pool, some kids hit the community hall, and the rest of us kids hit the main pool.
Like I mentioned above about some people pool hopping who just happen to be local residents using the pool as a country club , we have also talked to Swan and Dolphin guests because their kids happened to be playing with our kids in the pool, they said they were rejected at the Y and B, but were here. You can’t blame them, there’s no HARD rule against it.
Dean,Ben, Msmon,Downneckboy, beachangel and the captain have some very good points (which I completely agree with). I can’t see getting upset with a member not being told the new rules about pool hopping, but the rejected members have to also see the other side.

Let’s say, a member wants to visit the Bw from another resort in the morning. The resort pool is very open all day, and around 3 pm, the BW DVC or cash guests decide the parks maybe too crowded or they just feel they want to go back to their resort to enjoy their pool. They get back to the pool, and it’s a madhouse, no chairs, nothing, how relaxing is that? The resort guests should be able to enjoy their pool! Regardless of squatters rights of non guests who set up shop 2 hours earlier.
I know it’s not the poolhoppers fault, but the rules have to change. Until they come up something better, checking Ids is probably the best thing for now. Simply saying, we called in the morning, and they said it was Ok, is not Ok. Things change, in the morning, it could be quiet. We all know the pools get busier later in the day. Guests want to use their resorts later in the day after the parks get crowded or for some other reason. You can’t plan for that. I think DVC is going to realize with all of the recent complaints about the BW pool, (who would of thunk it), that’s it’s too much of a headache. Pool hopping will either be greatly reduced or eliminated. IMHO.

[This message was edited by Peterd on 04-18-01 at 02:28 AM.]

[This message was edited by Peterd on 04-18-01 at 02:30 AM.]

[mikamouse]

well I myself...not that anyone cares ...after numouros times ..."almost" buying into DVC...I think that there should be no pool hopping preilegles...for the reasons stated above! I had not once been told by them that they do this....and I myself as someone had said.."should beable because I am DVC"..well I have paid out MORE then what you have paid overt time just to stay there...so why would I NOT beable to use a pool at where I have paid Higher prices then you??? I opted NOT to join the DVC...for whcih I ealy could have paid cash for. so I feel that whcih every resort you are at tat the time....that is where your pool is!! personaly I would not want to treck all over Disney in a wet bathing suit...just to swim!!
But I do feel for the embassring sistuiton you must have felt at the time....I would have been ticked to!
so that pool thing should not be avabalile....it would make everything that much easyer!!

ok....just my .2 cents!! Bye!

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[Sammie]

I have to agree with the posts about the pool hopping being under consideration to be disbanned.
According to friends that work at Disney, this is what they have heard.

After the DVC at YC/BC is open the SB will be closed to anyone not staying there. No pool hopping, the same will be in effect at WL, GF, and the Poly. Basically all the pools anyone would be interested in.

Recently Disney has been flooded with complaints about this priviliege. As to why so many complaints. Many non DVC guests had no idea until the advent of boards such as these, that DVC pool hopping was even allowed. They just assumed the pool was busy due to high occupany at the resort. However the word is out now and guests that are staying at BW, YC/BC and WL are heavily complaining about the pool hopping privilege of DVC taking up their space at the pool and in the parking lot.

So I have to agree the privilege may be on the way out.

[LIDisneyFan]

BenStone,

Actually, you are incorrect. We each own an undivided share as "owners", defined in the POS, of all common elemnets, including all recreational facilities, conduits, infrastructure, etc. and pay our dues based upon that undivided real property ownership interest. We did not buy membership into a club. We bought real peoperty.

Section 12 of the POS (under Restrictions of Use) states that use of the common elements is restricted to owners, their guests, etc. It is clear about use of the units as vacation homes, but not the common elements (i.e. we can't expect to just use our share of any unit at any time- we bought into a club for reservations of vacation units) It doesn't say anything about being there on points, or even staying at Disney. I'm sure there may be other language in the POS to contradict this or clarify it, but I have not really been able to find it. So, I would reasonably assume that I 'own that pool and that chair'

I am not an attorney, nor pretend to understand each aspect of the POS in great detail. But I don't think the issue is a clear as you think it is. At least it isn't to me.

Again, this had to do with communication from Disney about how 'pool hopping' is handled.

By the way, I am a bit frustrated that since this happened to Scarlet on Fri the 13th, and my conversation with the BW GM was on Thursday the 14th, that his sincere apology for the treatment of my family did not translate into any material change in the way the situation was handled the following day. I think that says something about the sincerity of Disney's response.

Finally, I have not let this sour me on DVC, but rather on how a specific situation has been handled. If Disney chooses to eliminate or restrict pool hopping, it is not because a few people complained about their communication on the policy. It would be because it was their intent all along.

Now, I REALLY won't post any further on this subject (I mean it this time).

[Beachangel]

Maybe in the beginning the PH policy was in full force with no restrictions. Then maybe popular pools like SAB got overly crowded at certain times of the year ie Spring Break, so Disney implemented some restrictions to pool hopping. Makes sense to me. I for one don't pool hop but I can tell you with all these complaints Disney is having, I would think they would consider nixing the program. Or maybe Disney will limit PH to the least crowded times of the year.

As I previously stated,does a member who's staying offsite, have the "right" to swim at their home resort even if they're not a registered guest there?

"Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the THINKS you can think up, if only you try." Dr. Seuss

[Synonymous]

What alot of discussion over a simple thing. If you want to pool hop- call the resort where you're going before you leave. If they don't tell you "yes, it's okay" then don't go.

Tom

[Stinky_Pete]

I've only been a DVC member for a little over a year now. I have not read and memorized every word of the "POS" or whatever it's called, but it's been clear to me from the beginning that if I want to "hop" to any pool, at any time, that I need to call ahead. I believe it's mentioned many times in numerous pieces of DVC literature.

While I am always sorry when someone feels embarrassed, if someone doesn't follow that procedure then they have only themselves to blame.

And unless there is a fence surrounding the entire pool area (which I think would really be a tragedy) I think the argument that someone "shouldn't be asked to leave if they were allowed to enter the pool area" is ludicrous. They weren't "allowed" -- by not checking if it was o.k. first they entered without authorization!

[Jimbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> What alot of discussion over a simple thing. If you want to pool hop- call the resort where you're going before you leave. If they don't tell you "yes, it's okay" then don't go.[/quote]

It's not simple at all. You can try calling the front desk at the GF or the Poly and ask if DVC members are allowed to use their pool today. But I can pretty much guarantee that the person on the other end of the call will have no clue what you are talking about. In fact, many CMs have never even heard of the DVC, and will probably confuse it with the Disney Club.

It's the DVC that needs to straighten this out on behalf of its members. There's lots of ways to do that, but the simplest way is to just eliminate the perk. And I suspect that's what they will do.

[A1A1]

We have been posting about pool hopping by DVC owners, but it seems like there is a bigger problem that affects us all that is not being addressed by Disney:

Locals using the resort pools as their own personal water parks.

I mentioned elsewhere that when I was down in November, there were at least six retired ladies that were spending the day at the BWV pool, and from overhearing their conversations, I learned that this was their regular routine. They were set up with their lunches, their cards, their sewing. What a blast they were having at my expense, I thought.

How can this situation be solved? To me, this seems to be the more pressing issue. Maybe if there weren't so many non-registered locals at the pools, there would be room for
DVCers.

This burns me up more than the no-pool-hopping-today issue we have, and could be one cause of the no-pool-hopping issue.

[Werner Weiss]

A1A1 wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We have been posting about pool hopping by DVC owners, but it seems like there is a bigger problem that affects us all that is not being addressed by Disney:

Locals using the resort pools as their own personal water parks.[/quote]
I agree. On any given day at any given pool, I'm sure that a very small percentage of the pool users are DVC members. They are legitimately enjoying the DVC Pool Hopping benefit, and they have valid resort ID cards identifying them as DVC members.

In addition to locals, unauthorized pool users include: People staying at off-site lodging People staying at other WDW on-site resorts
This just means that IDs should be checked upon entry -- for the benefit of all legitimate pool users.

-----
Werner Weiss, Curator of Yesterland (http://www.yesterland.com), featuring discontinued Disneyland attractions

[This message was edited by Werner Weiss on 04-18-01 at 03:40 PM.]

[Beachangel]

If locals are using the pool and NOT registered as guests, sorry to be a tattle tale but I would be inclined to contact a CM.

I think it should then be a standard practice that ID be checked during the day. I bet that would help overcrowding.

"Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the THINKS you can think up, if only you try." Dr. Seuss

[RLevy29]

I am an old time Disney pool-hopper and can remember staying at the Polynesian and being able to go to the Contemporary Pool and beach and also the beach at Fort Wildderness. You were only required to show your ID cards. We would have lunch at the Contemporary or a picnic at Fort Wilderness and then use the pool or beach. Sometimes we would rent a boat wherever we were.
When we bought into DVC one of the percs that interested us was being able to pool hop. I understand about a resort being filled up, but I think that if they were going to restrict use of the pool then ID's should have been checked on their arrival not after they were already there and in such a rude manner. There have been many times when we have stayed at resorts at other places than Disneyworld when the pool has been filled and there is nowhere to sit. What is the management supposed to do then? Find out who is paying more for their room and make the people that are paying less or have a discounted room because of belonging to Starwood Club or Hilton Honors or whatever leave? That is just as unfair as making someone leave who is already there and especially when that person belongs to DVC.
Scarlett, I think you are totally right. Maybe if you would have been told before you entered you would have gone to one of the many other pools that are part of WDW.

[This message was edited by RLevy29 on 04-18-01 at 09:27 PM.]

[baileybrad]

Rlevy29, you pretty much nailed the issue.

[A1A1]

Wondering if any of us have attended those annual members' meetings. Would this be an issue to bring up there? Would anyone with authority really listen?

I am concerned about:

1. Being told (as a DVC member) after the fact to leave a DVC pool. ID's should be checked upon arrival if there is a restriction due to occupancy.

2. People who shouldn't be at the pool being there: locals, off-site guests, guests from other resorts. These are the people who should be asked to leave upon entry, no matter what time of the year it is.

[KKlecknerWray]

I was at the BWV member and was at the BWV the same week as Scarlett. The pool was crowded much of the week, but I didn't mind that it was hard to find a chair. I was on vacation....I was trying not to take things like that so seriously!

If I had been in Scarlett's position, and was being threatened with removal by security, I would have called them on it. Go ahead -- call security. You want me to leave? Make me! I'd like to see security climb into the pool to physically remove me and my 6'4", 230 lb husband (and then where will they take us?? Disney Jail?) oooooo! I'm scared! Believe me, DVC would be hearing an earful (and I don't mean Mickey ears!) from me about that!

I don't mean to sound obnoxious, but if that's how they're going to approach the situation, they're going to get an equally assertive response (believe me, I can be very assertive -- it's the New Jersey in me, I guess!). I would be happy to leave the pool in such a situation, but there's such a thing as MANNERS. Disney handled the situation deplorably! I love the BWV, but often, I've noticed the CM's who work there are a bit lacking in politeness.

Scarlett, sorry about your situation. Thanks for alerting all of the DVC members to it. I'll be prepared should they pull that kind of bulls--t on me!

Kara

[This message was edited by KaraKW on 04-19-01 at 11:49 PM.]

[Joeblack]

Right On Kara.

[JerseyJanice]

I am not a DVC member, but I am finding these debates on pool hopping interesting.

One comment--it seems whenever we go to a resort, whether it's crowded or not, there are always lounge chairs taken by phantoms. I mean, people deposit a towel on a chair and believe it's their chair for the entire day.

We stayed the Contemporary this past September. It was off-season and visibly not sold out, yet it was all we could do to find a lounge chair some days. I watched some chairs with personal articles on them to see if anyone actually ever used them and honestly didn't see anyone go near some of these chairs the entire day.

This is a pet peeve of mine. Anyone else notice this?

[Beachangel]

I can totally relate to the "phantoms". When I go down with my sisters & the gang, we hang out by the pool in the morning to take the sun. We're alot of people & the first one down there saves the chairs. But at least we use them! We noticed too that there was always a block of chairs saved & no one ever showed up! It would irk our nerves to no end!

"Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the THINKS you can think up, if only you try." Dr. Seuss

[Peterd]

I think their gonna have to start carding people at the pools. If you call in the morning, and the pool is not too crowded I can see letting others in. There should be a disclaimer though to let people know, that if it becomes crowded LATER on in the day, you may be asked to leave. In the middle of the day, when the guests come back from the parks to take a break by their pool, they should be able to enjoy it.
I have also seen the lounge chairs with guests clothes etc. holding them for hours without anyone claiming them until later.There's the other side though. Sometimes, if you just get up to jump in the pool, you lose your chair.
This past Feb at the Bw, while my wife and half the kids were at the quiet pool, My daughter and I went to use the slide at the main pool. We put our stuff, (which included a frozen drink) on a chair which I carried over to the hottub. We went on three slide runs ( approx. 5-10 minutes), came back to use the chair while my daughter used the hottub. Found a woman on it, our clothes on the ground in a puddle, and my drink which I just bought, gone. I asked her if she moved my stuff. She said yes she did. I asked did you notice the puddle that they're in, No she said.I said what happened to the drink that was on the chair. Oh, I threw it out, didn't look like anyone was drinking it. No apology! I told her she was amazing, and she didn't feel the least bit embarrassed. She stayed in the seat and just wouldn't acknowledge that I was standing there anymore. My daughter couldn't believe I let it go without blowing up, but I figured relax I'm on vacation. Another couple watching the whole thing, just shook their heads, and couldn't believe the woman did it too.

[Renee']

"If I had been in Scarlett's position, and was being threatened with removal by security, I would have called them on it. Go ahead -- call security. You want me to leave? Make me! I'd like to see security climb into the pool to physically remove me and my 6'4", 230 lb husband (and then where will they take us?? Disney Jail?) oooooo! I'm scared! Believe me, DVC would be hearing an earful (and I don't mean Mickey ears!) from me about that!"

I'm amazed by some of the responses here. This is fairly easy to understand. DVC members have the privilege of pool hopping when the pool is NOT over crowded. If the pool is overcrowded obviously the registered guests shall be the main concern of Disney. Although we DVCers have the pool hopping privilege this doesn't mean that registered guests of a hotel shouldn't have chairs available to them when they attempt to use their pool. This is common sense. If the CM working the pool area encounters a busy pool it is his/her responsibility to make sure that those people at the pool, taking up those chairs, are guests of the hotel. If they are not a registered guest they have every right to ask them to please leave to accommodate those who are. I'm truly amazed that some will take the "bully" mentality therefore pushing the CM to threaten security. I think I'd be happy for my time already spent and gracefully exit.

Regardless of where my deed states that "I own" the registered guests of that particular hotel take priority....period.


<FONT COLOR=Green>Renee'</FONT>
<FONT COLOR=Blue>DVC at OKW '98</FONT>
<img height="200" src="http://www.jessicasweb.com/content/about/smooches.gif">
<FONT COLOR=Green>"Life's too short not to have fun!"</FONT>

<FONT COLOR=Blue> Vow Renewal October '01 at the Happiest Place on Earth

[KKlecknerWray]

QUOTE: If the CM working the pool area encounters a busy pool it is his/her responsibility to make sure that those people at the pool, taking up those chairs, are guests of the hotel. If they are not a registered guest they have every right to ask them to please leave to accommodate those who are. I'm truly amazed that some will take the "bully" mentality therefore pushing the CM to threaten security.
_______________________________________

I agree that it is a CM's responsibility to check ID's in an over-crowded situation. I agree that they are entitled to ask non-registered guests to leave (of course, I'm not sure I consider a DVC member an "non-registered" guest -- but that really isn't my point).

What a CM does NOT have the right to do, is to threaten and humiliate guests. I'm not sure you read Scarlett's post, but the CM was not "pushed into calling security" as a result of bullying from the guest!!! --The CM threatened calling security as part of their initial request:
"please leave ---or we'll call security".

I think you have the "bully" part backwards. It was not the guest who had the "bully" mentality, but the CAST MEMBER!

Kara

[This message was edited by KaraKW on 04-19-01 at 11:51 PM.]

[KNWVIKING]

After the CM looked at Scarlet's id, do you think the first words out of his mouth were: "please leave or I'll call security" ??

[KKlecknerWray]

KNWVIKING --

There is no justification to threaten to call security on a DVC member who is only exercising their vacation club rights.

Obviously BWV members should be able to use the pool first, but DVC members should not be singled out. EVERYONE should be checked upon entry, and if there's an over-crowding problem, other pool-hoppers should be asked to leave first (i.e., off-property, other resort/non-DVC guests). DVC members should be the last people asked to leave.
I find it hard to believe that involving security would ever be necessary. If you speak to people in a considerate way, they respond in kind.

--KKW

[PKK/MJK]

Who knows what the first words were out of the CM's mouth. He/she might have threatened to call security right away--or possibly he/she became annoyed because Scarlet wouldn't immediately respond to his demands. I wouldn't be surprised if Scarlet was rude and said things that made him angry--most of us would have protested in the same situation. Scarlet felt she was being singled out,and treated unfairly. She was being publicly embarrassed/humiliated by this CM. Regardless, the situation was initiated by the CM and it is his/her job to treat all the guests with respect. My daughter worked at WDW last summer and she told us many stories about the rude treatment she received from guests . A few times she had to go "backstage" and cry just to relieve the tension. But she said she was trained to be polite NO MATTER what the guest was doing. This CM did not do that. He treated Scarlet terribly. Very poor guest relations!!!

Phil and Mary Jo
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/dvclogo.gif
WDW--82,83,85,87,89,93,95,96, 97,98,99,00,01
DVC/OKW

[Tiggeriffic]

Just to be clear. I believe that Pool Hopping is only allowed for DVC Members. Therefore, people staying at other Disney resorts or off-site are not pool hopping. They should not be using the pool at all.

I definitely think that if they don't start carding everybody, then more and more people will start using the pool when they are not allowed to. Some will do it because others told them incorrectly that it is okay. Others will do it because they want to and they get away with it.

Before Disney even considers getting rid of pool hopping, they should make sure that it is a problem due to people who are legitimately allowed to use the pool. Then if the pools are still too crowded, they will have to do something and hopefully not before.

[KNWVIKING]

FIRST: One thing all of us here agree on is the RULES are clear as mud.SECOND: Read Scarlet's opening post, the CM was checking ID's of other people, these people and Scarlet protested. What should the CM have done... let them stay because they protested and evict only those that don't ? Just said the hell with it and walk away,maybe getting himself fired in the process ? What was the tone of the protesters,were they going over the edge with abusive language ? I would think in the Disney Handbook-if there is such a thing- threatening to call security is a CM's last resort when dealing with guest that just won't listen.

[This message was edited by KNWVIKING on 04-19-01 at 06:28 PM.]

[Doctor P]

This whole discussion has gotten a bit out of hand and really opened a Pandora's Box.

Seems to me that there is another solution here that would seem reasonable, and we know that they have the technology to do it! Why not have a FastPass type of machine that is used to enter the pool area? It would be programmed to only accept certain types of room keys and spits out a ticket good for two hours stay at the pool. When capacity is reached, the machine issues no more FastPasses (you could put a monitor on the exit to account for people leaving). You must have a valid pool ticket in order to sit in the pool area and may not be issued another pool ticket (giving you another two hours) until at least 1:50 has passed since your previous ticket. You could program the machine to have differential acceptance of DVC room keys depending on season and capacity issues. In this way pool hopping could be monitored while still being allowed, and cash guests could be more assured that there are not general interlopers and that DVC guests, on a space available type of basis, will have only limited access to the pool at peak times

http://www.dreamsunlimitedtravel.com/images/official_logos/keywest.gif

[PKK/MJK]

You are correct. Only DVC members have pool hopping rights. Many years ago, Disney allowed anyone who stayed on-property to pool hop but that privilege has been gone for a long time. The problem in this case, was that DVC members were asked to leave without checking to see who else might be in the BWV pool area who shouldn't be--like people staying off property,in other resorts etc.Those are the people who should leave--even if the pool is not crowded. They are not supposed to be there at all. If the pool is still too crowded once all the "illegitimate" pool hoppers leave, then DVCers staying at other resorts could be asked quietly and politely to leave so that resort guests could have some room. There are ways to handle this tactfully. Hopefully Disney will come up with a solution to this situation promptly--and a solution which does not eliminate the DVC pool-hopping privilege as that would be the "easy way out."

Phil and Mary Jo
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/dvclogo.gif
WDW--82,83,85,87,89,93,95,96, 97,98,99,00,01
DVC/OKW

[KNWVIKING]

The concept is a step in the right direction but first and formost a cash paying guest has to have first rights to unlimited access to their pool, not just a couple hrs at a time.Second, do you really believe that people would honor their 2 hr limit ?? someone would still need to go around checking time cards and we know how well that goes over.

[PKK/MJK]

Yes, you're right--the rules are clear as mud!!! And, yes the people next to Scarlet were also asked to leave. Apparently no one else was checked though. We really don't know for sure. Checking ID ` should be an all or nothing thing--not just singling out certain people. The point is that The CM initiated the situation. I'm sure he/she was instructed to clear the pool area by someone higher up. He/she had a nasty job. Guests probably got rude and the CM got annoyed. Of course, he couldn't just say "Oh, you don't want to leave? OK, you can stay." On the other hand, he should have been able to handle things in a more tactful way without threatening DVC members with being thrown out by security. Frankly, none of us will known exactly what happened at the pool that day since we weren't there and only have one side of the story. CM's, however, should be able to do their job without upsetting guests , humiliating them and threatening them with security. It is just bad Public Relations to upset guests this way. Disney usually bends over backwards to make guests happy. Unfortunately, on this day things went very wrong, the situation was handled badly and things spiralled out of control from there.

Phil and Mary Jo
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/dvclogo.gif
WDW--82,83,85,87,89,93,95,96, 97,98,99,00,01
DVC/OKW

[RussDog]

I think that Doctor P's idea has merit.

Combining the pool Fast Pass with the concept of "The Luna Park Pool Ride" would alleviate much of the frustration and tension surrounding the pool controversy.

This new attraction would feature a rotating, luggage-like carousel fitted with chaise lounges. At their designated Fast Pass time guests could could board the Chaise Lounge Carousel for it's two hour cycle and disembark at the end of the ride.

The Stand By Line--for those without a Fast Pass -- could begin at the bottom of the slide staircase. Once a chaise lounge becomes available, they are signaled to proceed down the slide, out of the pool, and to their designated chair assignment.

This could be very costly to implement, but, in the end, "The Luna Park Pool Ride" would save guests and cast members needless aggravation. ;)

[rickster57]

I can understand the busy time to ask DVCers to leave the pool such as Chistmas and Easter Break however I beleive the other times there should be a SPECIFIC rule such as>>>>>>If the pool have a capacity of 75 people, you will only need to leave if there are more than 60% in the pool. I would be very MAD if I was ask to leave if there were only 10 people in the pool. It would that security to get me out.

http://members.aol.com/mpatrickmd/airdvc.jpg

[robinb]

Kara:

you go girl! :D I'm with you 100%.


-- Robin

[CaptainMidnight]

Kara:
I'm afraid I disagree.

No sense compounding your error and mistaken impression that BVW ownership entitles one to unlimited year round access with being stubborn and indignant, and impose on other's vacation.

If you didn't check regarding pool hopping ahead of your visit during a peak vacation week, it doesn't matter whether you noticed others being called on their error or not, your in the wrong.

People staying at BWV on cash or using thier points should have first choice in using the pool they are paying for whether by cash or by directly using thier points at the time of visit.

[Doctor P]

There are several issues all intermingled here. I agree with the sentiment that common decency and respect among people would go a long way to solving almost all of the problems we like to discuss on this board.

I am just concerned about "throwing the baby out with the bath water." I don't think DVC members should expect to have run of the pools anytime and anyplace. Furthermore, I don't think any guest (cash or otherwise) at peak seasons should expect to monopolize resort facilities to the detriment of other guests. I doubt very highly whether DVC pool hopping actually causes a substantial increase in the pool usage at any of the pools even at the most peak times. However, I understand the perception problem and the need to treat the cash guests with some priority at their resort home. Nevertheless, as the adage goes, "lack of planning on your part should not constitute an emergency on my part." To the extent that pool hoppers enter the pool area when it is under relatively low use, stay a reasonable period of time (not all day, certainly), and are sensitive to the pool becoming crowded, there should not be a problem. Furthermore, a limit on pool hopping at peak seasons could be something less than a full ban if there were ID checking that took place (you could have a sign in/sign out for pool hopping). I guess my point is that restrictions on the length of time a pool hopper could stay or the number of pool hoppers at any given time could allow some compromise situation to exist that could allow the perk to continue without being any onerous imposition on the cash guests. I am not owed a pool hopping privilege but I think it is a nice perk and I hope that it will be available when it comes time for us to want to use it. I am optimistic that a system and set of rules can be developed to improve the situation.

http://www.dreamsunlimitedtravel.com/images/official_logos/keywest.gif

[KKlecknerWray]

Captain Midnight --
You missed my point entirely.

Your meandering and disjointed message makes VERY LITTLE SENSE. I am willing to overlook your awkward attempts at insults, however, considering that people who have poor writing skills usually have poor reading skills as well. Given this, I am assuming that you just did not understand my message. I will simplify it for you.

My post does not concern the
privileges of DVC members.

It has to do with the
RUDE TREATMENT of guests by cast members.


That was my point. Plain and simple.

Also, Doctor P., I couldn't agree more --
"Lack of planning on your part, does not constitute an emergency on my part!" AMEN!

--KKW

http://www.russellwray.com/kara/donald.gif

[Peterd]

You know after listening to people complain so much about their bad experiences with pool-hopping, I was wondering What DVC will do to correct the problem? Easy answer,They will cancel it. Why should they come up with all of these great plans to make it work for the DVCers, when some Dvcers won't be reasonable. What should they do? What they do now doesn't work. You call in the morning to see if it's allowed, they say yes, but they can't guarentee that it will be crowded later. It's not their fault. It's not fair to the cash and point paying guests to not be able enjoy their pool. The resort owes it to their GUESTS first, not the poolhoppers. To say check IDs every couple of hours, would be very annoying to the guests of the hotel. I know after awhile, I would say enough.
Let's say DVC makes a plan to let DVCers poolhop, but to check IDs later as it does get more crowded. This won't work! We know some of the poolhoppers responses,"How dare they ask for my ID! Others will see this, and I will feel humiliated." We have already heard that some will try to intimidate the CM just doing his job. I would think the CM would only say, " we will get security if you don't leave and continue to make a scene". (I could be wrong though.) Would you really call your husband to scare the CM because of his size, and make a big scene to try to prove your point? How unfair to the poor CM who is only doing his/her job. Do you really think that you DESERVE to be at THEIR resort? Or do you agree that you are there because they allow you to be there? The resorts don't want this.
Best solution, it's a perk, if you're let in, ENJOY it! If asked to leave, LEAVE! The cash and point paying guests deserve to not only enjoy their pool but to be comfortable also.
If pool hopping is SO important to you, stay where you want to play, or don't have your feelings hurt when asked to leave.

[CaptainMidnight]

Well said Peterd.

I'm 6'4" around 250lbs and have some martial arts training. That doesn't mean I should treat a CM inappropriately.

I also agree that the result of all this will be the loss of the pool hopping privledge.

I guess when Disney does take it away, I'll have a good understanding of the reasons and inappropriate conduct that caused them to take it away....

[Werner Weiss]

No DVC members should be asked to leave. Why? Because it's not necessary if Disney and the DVC members stick to the simple pool hopping rules.

Before you leave your DVC resort room, you determine that there's no pool hopping restriction at your destination pool. You can then go to that pool without worrying that a half hour after you get there, a CM will ask you to leave (and that you've wasted valuable vacation hours getting ready, parking, and getting situated at the pool -- and that the same thing might happen if you now try to go to another pool). It's simple.

The incidents last week were isolated exceptions because flyers handed to DVC members upon check-in could easily be interpretted as saying that only Yacht & Beach Club had a pool hopping restriction.

By the way, DVC members also fall into the category of "cash and point paying guests."

-----
Werner Weiss, Curator of Yesterland (http://www.yesterland.com), featuring discontinued Disneyland attractions

[This message was edited by Werner Weiss on 04-20-01 at 01:38 AM.]

[PKK/MJK]

I certainly hope that Disney does not eliminate the pool hopping privilege. While it is not important to me personally, many people get a lot of pleasure out of it. Disney is known for its creativity. They certainly can come up with a solution to this problem that does not entail eliminating the privlege. On another pool-hopping thread, someone suggested colored wristbands--each resort having its own color. The wristbands are issued at check-in. To use the pool you must wear your wristband. That way the pool area could be patrolled discreetly. Those with no wristbands would be asked to leave. CM's could easily identify the remainder of pool people by the color of their bands--as to whether they were from OKW, VWL or BWV. Then, if the pool area became overcrowded, CM's could quietly ask the proper guests to leave. Something along this line might work.
It goes without saying, that CM's should only resort to threats of calling security, when they are in a truly dire situation. Embarrassing guests, even if they are being obnoxious , is just not the Disney way of doing things. It is poor public relations. Very bad "show." I have a strong feeling that if this situation had been handled differently by the CM, we would not being seeing all this pool hopping brouhaha. I feel terrible for everyone involved in these pool problems--the guests for being embarrassed and the CM for trying to do his job but ending up with this mess.

Phil and Mary Jo
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/dvclogo.gif
WDW--82,83,85,87,89,93,95,96, 97,98,99,00,01
DVC/OKW

[Peterd]

Captain, 6 4' 250 here also. We should start a football team.
WW Quoted above:
"By the way, DVC members also fall into the category of "cash and point paying guests."".
Yes that is true, but ONLY at the resort they are staying at. At the resort they are hopping to, yes they are DVC members, but they are DVC members visiting another resort. As for getting there then being told to leave, It's the risk you take when you pool hop.

As for the wrist bands, sounds nice but what a hassle for people staying there. Who wants to wear a wristband during vacation at a pool?Maybe they could come up with something similar that wouldn't be a hassle to the guests.

We used to pool hop, and I don't understand how some don't see it being a problem for DVC. You have to realize that if they allow hopping in the morning, and in the afternoon, when the guests return to their pool, it will become overcrowded.
It probably doesn't happen often, but how is DVC to know? One morning they say yes, and later it doesn't overcrowd. The next day it does overcrowd. It's hard to tell at 9 in the morning, what the intentions of the guests might be at 3pm.
How should they handle this situation? The guests deserve to enjoy their pool. The only solution at that time, would be to then ask non guests to leave. Mentioning security sounds like it might be said if people refuse to leave and make a scene at the pool.
What do others think they should do? They can't NOT do anything. They can't ban guests who are staying there on points and cash. When some say, " we called this morning and they said we could pool hop, we're not leaving." Well, they are telling you now you can't. How do they think the amount of people at that time will decrease? Maybe they should just let everyone know that this can and will happen in the future so people won't have their noses bent out of shape, when it does. Pool hopping is a nice perk sometimes, but if some people want to complain to Disney about it, feel free. They're not going sprinkle pixie dust on it, and make it better. They're just going to say too many problems, and cancel it.

[This message was edited by Peterd on 04-20-01 at 09:51 AM.]

[This message was edited by Peterd on 04-20-01 at 09:53 AM.]

[christiansmom]

BWV is my home resort and I have yet to stay there using points. My first DVC stay (aside from one night at OKW last month) will be in May at the VWL. During that time, we have planned on pool hopping one day to SAB. I will, of course, check with the front desk before heading over but if I am asked to leave once there I will do so quietly and respectfully. It is true that one cannot ascertain in the AM what the capacity will be like in the afternoon. Often times, people do the parks in the AM and then enjoy the pools to cool off early afternoon. I would never dream of or feel comfortable taking a chair from a paying guest (points or otherwise) and would leave just as freely from the BWV pool (where I am an owner) if not staying there. I would only hope that I would be asked to leave tactfully and respectfully and that my family and I were not intentionally singled out. I think it is an uncomfortable situation for a CM on its own to have to ask people to leave and I certainly would never add fuel to the fire by being difficult. I agree with Peterd that unless people comply when requested to leave, this perk will soon become obsolete and that will be a shame for most of us.

http://disneyclipart.simplenet.com/Characters/Groups/Mickey_and_Minnie/mic-min04a.gif

Lisa
christiansmom
DISNEY MAGIC 9/23/00
DVC-BWV 9/00

[Sammie]

It would not surprise me in the least if both the DVC member offended; and the Cast Member asking the member to leave, needed lessons in public relations.

My gosh, most here can't even discuss a situation that did not even involve them personally without being rude to each other.

Just think how these people would act at the pool, if asked to leave.

I figure if you are booked at a resort (either as a cash guest or a points guest), you have the right to the pool. Others don't.

If you are allowed a privilege of using the pool, then good, if you are asked to leave for whatever reason, then you leave.

If you are asked to leave and do so politely and are mistreated, then by all means you have a complaint.

[RussDog]

There has been a great deal of discussion on this board regarding how they would have handled this situation if they were there... It seems to me a lot of you should be sainted. It sounds as though many of you are not susceptible to typical human nature....

Think of this situation. You and the family decide today is the day you want to use your Disney Pool Hopping privilege. You note to yourself that you should avoid the use of the Yacht and Beach pool because you feel you will be thoughtful to the guests of the hotel. It is the busiest pool after all. So, you decide to head to a DVC pool with a slide for your kids. Thus, off to boardwalk pool you go. You find a chair (somewhat difficult, but still many around), get some towels, maybe go and get a drink from the leaping horses carousel bar and settle in for a couple hours of relaxation by the pool. You figure ... "Oh, this is great! I finally get to sit down and read my book and the kids can have a great time on the slide and swimming in the pool!"... But wait, it looks like the pool is getting a little more crowded than when you first got there... 20 min earlier.

Many of you posted that you would have left the pool using "Common Sense" because the pool was getting full. I suppose you would say, "Look kids... I know you wanted to go down the slide and play in the pool, but its getting a little busy and we should leave and give a Hotel Guest our chairs. Yes we are allowed to be here according to the DVC Rules, but I feel it would be the nice thing to do to leave and give our chairs to someone else." ------ All of you are FULL OF IT!

Human nature has come into play here... We have been informed our privileges and the rules that govern these privileges. When it appears that these rules are instantly changed, we question the rationale.

Obviously these people feel wronged and singled out; thus forced into a defensive position of their actions. Instinctually, if we are pushed in one direction, we push back. Many of us will push back with resentment and anger. If you feel humiliated, the natural instinct is to reciprocate-thus, often resulting in "making a scene". No, not all of us push back in the same way, but we all do it! I for one would respond similarly to Kara... And many of you would too. GO KARA!

Before casting your high and mighty option on how you would react in this situation... Experience it! Many of you will drastically change your opinion!

Disney:
1. Keep to the rules you provide us. Inform us of these specific situations. You will not find a more understanding group of people anywhere. If you want us to leave... We will leave. Just don't surprise us of this news and make us feel like fools.
2. Monitor and remove the people that DO NOT have pool hopping privileges. I know for a certainty there is abuse of this by many non- DVC members AND local people from the community!

JR

[christiansmom]

I don't know who you are referring to as, "FULL OF IT", but I assure you that your assumption is incorrect at least as far as I am concerned. I can only speak for myself, not for others, but I stick by the comments expressed in my original post. Although I would probably not leave just because I viewed a pool as becoming crowded, if I were asked to leave I would do so calmly and without reservation. If I were treated poorly, I would take up my concerns with the proper personnel. I am not saying that it would not be an inconvenience but I would comply. I have a three year old who loves slides but we would make due with another activity before we would take chairs away from point or cash paying guests. If that makes me a saint, than so be it but I don't see it that way at all.

Having said all above, there is never an excuse for rudeness to guests by CMs. I am sorry that Scarlett and LIDisney had such a poor experience and hopefully with efforts on both sides situations like this will be eliminated in the future.

[RussDog]

This is one of the posts I was talking about when I referred to "Common Sense". This was a passage from the "Are people planning on taking some action on Pool Hopping?" thread.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"Rule #2: If you are pool hopping and the pool becomes crowded, practice the "common sense clause" which states: When pool hopping, guests will use their common sense to determine when they should stay and when they should go. If the pool area becomes crowded, leave without being instructed by a CM and allow resort guests access to their amenities." -Kamgen [/quote]

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[This message was edited by RussDog on 04-20-01 at 06:47 PM.]

[christiansmom]

I wouldn't say that voluntarily leaving a pool that appears to be crowded constitutes common sense. As stated above, I wouldn't make the assumption based on a visual so I guess I wouldn't necessarily adhere to rule #2. I do agree with the premise of common courtesy though and would readily leave if asked to do so, regardless of the inconvenience it caused me and my family. To me, that would just be the right thing to do.

[BenStone]

And to think I clearly understood Captain Midnights ideas _and_ message. I know I feel disjointed now. Perhaps those of us that actually work in areas where the "Northeasterners" vacation understand their attitudes better than they do. They come and go, but the attitude never changes. <IMG WIDTH="15" HEIGHT="15" SRC="/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif" alt="razz">

"All opinions expressed are my own....for a small fee they can be yours too."

[Dean]

Werner, unfortunately under the interpretation currently in force at BW and by at least some at MS, checking ahead of time wouldn't necessarily solve the problem. The current interpretation would seem to allow them to close the pool on a moments notice. It's entirely possible that you checked, got someone who actually could give an intelligent answer, that answer be "come on overs, the water's fine" and THEN, they closed the pool just after you got there. This is where I have a problem. DVC needs desperately to come up with a clear and easily understood policy and a way to notify the members with confidence that the notification will hold up. Moreover, the policy needs to be spelled out in writing. It also seems that some education of the CM at the usual destination resorts about pool hopping is in order.

Dean

[CaptainMidnight]

Well, I don't know that being surprised by a CM with a request that I would necessarily do the right thing, I make human errors a plenty. But there's a difference between and unplanned surprise reaction and boasting about inappropriate behavior and implying others should follow suit.

Go Kara Go???? ...... Nonsense.

[This message was edited by CaptainMidnight on 04-23-01 at 07:15 AM.]

[PKK/MJK]

I think Russdog was quite right when he said that none of us really know exactly how we'd react when we haven't been in the situation ourselves. It's easy to type words on the computer saying how we'd gladly, and politely gather up our children, give up our seats and leave the second the CM asked us. And frankly, now that we've been alerted to the possibility that his could happen and the reasons why, many of us would graciously exit the pool area. But that's the point--we now KNOW this could happen. The people who started this discussion were caught completely off guard and, as Russdog suggested, were put in a defensive position. They felt they were being unfairly singled out and subsequently they were embarrassed and humiliated. We all react differently when we feel we are being threatened. Some of us are more volatile than others. My understanding of what KaraKW said was that IF she were unexpectedly put in a situation where she felt she was unjustly singled out and threatened with security, she would "stand her ground" and fight for what she thought was right.Perhaps other people, because of their personalities, would behave in a more calm way. Because we are different people, we react and behave differently. But no one likes to be embarrassed and humiliated in public. That was the real problem here. None of us will ever know exactly how these pool scenarios unfolded--who was rude to whom etc. Somehow the situation got out of control and both the guest and the CM were put in terrible positions. It is up to Disney to remedy this by making very clear rules and being sure all DVC members understand them. It is also up to Disney to be certain all the CM's are trained thoroughly in guest relations.

Frankly, I don't see why wearing wristbands would be such a hassle. Perhaps others don't agree. It was just a suggestion on another thread.

In closing, I will say that I was extremely offended by that "crack" about people from the Northeast!!!! I have lived in other parts of the country as well as the Northeast where I now reside. People here are just as kind, considerate and helpful as they are elsewhere including the South. I think we should avoid insulting various parts of our wonderful country and the people who live there!!

Phil and Mary Jo
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/dvclogo.gif
WDW--82,83,85,87,89,93,95,96, 97,98,99,00,01
DVC/OKW

[normr]

Please straighten this out for me since I don't own there.

Isn't is both a hotel side and DVC villa side? (2 operations under one roof?) The pool facilities have to be shared by both these groups? It's not like OKW or which is strictly a DVC resort except that 4% of the rooms are held by Disney to rent out

[GrammieMame]

The color-coded wristbands were my suggestion. They wouldn't necessarily solve the problem but would eliminate off-site and other resort guests from using the pool. Then, I guess we'd have to see if the pool is big enough to accommodate those who are actually staying at the particular resort, plus any DVC pool hoppers. If not, another step needs to be taken.

I'll take the hassle of a wristband if it would allow only legitimate guests to use the pool.

[dianthus]

That was a very inappropriate and offensive post!

[Olaf]

Here's an excerpt from my original post on this topic. It concerned LIDisneyFan's eviction from the boardwalk pool. From 4/12/01, yes we've been yacking about this for almost two weeks now.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I've often thought that resort guests should be issued some sort of plastic bracelet on checkin. They could be colored coded and changed frequently. Guests would be instructed to wear their bracelet and when they didn't have it on, be asked for resort ID. [/quote]

Since then several people have pooh-poohed this idea. I won't take it personally ;), but I really think this idea could work. We do this at military pools all the time.

When guests check in, hand them their bracelets and inform them that this is to keep the pools for the resort guests. Virtually all of us knows someone, or has actually spoken to people at the pools who have no right to be there. I can assure you, people would wear the bracelets. They'd probably wear them all day, just so everyone knows they're staying onsite. It would end up having a certain snob appeal.

It would also be a lot easier for the CMs when things got busy and they needed to empty out chairs. I don't have problem with leaving, just as long as they are "carding" everyone. That was LIDisneyFan's biggest gripe, he'd been singled out.

Steph
DL - 1966
DL - 1970
WDW - 1973 - Contemporary
WDW - 1975 - Day trip
DL - 1988 - Day trip
WDW - 1993 - CBR
WDW - 1995 - SOG
WDW - 1997 - SOG
WDW - 1999 - SOG
WDW - 2001 - SOG & PO

http://members.aol.com/vltdisney/aniportrait.gif

[This message was edited by Olaf on 04-21-01 at 07:35 PM.]

[PKK/MJK]

I totally agree with KaraKW!!! As I noted in another post, this Board is not the place to make nasty comments about other DVC memebers just because they live in different part of the country. I found this totally offensive!!! The person who posted this negative comment has every right to hold these opinions but posting them and purposely insulting an entire group of people is NOT acceptable!!

Phil and Mary Jo
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/dvclogo.gif
WDW--82,83,85,87,89,93,95,96, 97,98,99,00,01
DVC/OKW

[CaptainMidnight]

IMHO....perhaps it is time to let this thread end.

[DeeP]

Considering the fact that New York and New Jersey are among the top 3 states for the most DVC members, it is pretty safe to say that there is an excellent chance of running into one of us Northeast folks with our attitude every time you go to a DVC resort! LOL! I live and work right outside of Atlantic City and Ocean City, NJ, and we get vacationers from all the states and from different parts of the world and believe me, there are very rude and also very considerate people from everywhere. There are also people with wonderful attitudes and also some with very bad attitudes from every country and every state. Please do not single out and label the people from the Northeast--it is not fair nor correct. We are generally very nice people.

http://members.aol.com/mzdavis67/deeclipart.gif

[RussDog]

Finally... The voice of reason. I couldn't have said it better myself!

Russ

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[This message was edited by RussDog on 04-22-01 at 12:03 AM.]

[brittsmamabwv]

Is anyone else looking forward to the "lock" on this subject? ;) :rolleyes: <IMG WIDTH="15" HEIGHT="15" SRC="/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif" alt="razz"> :rolleyes: ;)

When you wish upon a star...DVC will take you far...anything your heart desires....will come your way

[PKK/MJK]

Admittedly there have been some very strong comments on this Board lately. I realize that the Board moderators have the right to eliminate posts at their discretion. But I am really puzzled now. Scanning through the recent posts, I realized the comments by KaraKW protesting that nasty statement about Northeasterners has been eliminated. Perhaps the moderators felt she was too vocal or too harsh in her criticism. OK--that is their right. But why eliminate her protest but leave that nasty comment unjustly criticizing all of us who live in the Northeast???? As a NJ DVCer of many years, I believe the Northeast bashing post should have been deleted also. After all, that message was offensive to many, many Northeasterners.

Phil and Mary Jo
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/dvclogo.gif
WDW--82,83,85,87,89,93,95,96, 97,98,99,00,01
DVC/OKW

[dianthus]

PKK/MKK - I wondered about that too! Her response was not as strong and hurtful as the original post! This thread was about a pool hopping issue... not personal attacks...

I agree with Karakw, I'm not buying either, even if he paid me... Despite those comments, southern hospitality is alive & well!


:)

[CaptainMidnight]

Thank you moderators.

If there is no more discussion of pool hopping, perhaps we could all agree to let this thread stop without requiring the moderators to lock it for us.

Or, maybe it does need to be locked.

[kate099]

We have reservations at BWV in September and I understand the Luna pool will be closed starting the day before we arrive for renovations. I was certainly hoping we would be allowed to pool hop.

[travelbug]

When we checked into OKW on Apr. 14, we were told (without us even asking) that pool hopping at BWV was not being allowed. The CM explained that a couple of DVC members had gotten very upset when asked to leave the BWV pool, and so she just wanted me to know ahead of time. I really appreciated that.

A few days later, I stopped at the desk and asked whether we could pool hop at the Poly. The CM said "Pool hopping isn't allowed at all." I asked whether that was just during peak times like Easter week. She said no, that it is a new policy.

Fortunately we all enjoyed the OKW pools just fine. Being a rookie at staying on-site, I am not familiar with any of the pools at other resorts, so I guess I don't know what I'm missing! ;)

[Jimbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If there is no more discussion of pool hopping, perhaps we could all agree to let this thread stop without requiring the moderators to lock it for us.

Or, maybe it does need to be locked.
[/quote]

You and others have posted this a few times now. My question is why? IMHO, this is exactly the reason owners (vs. prospective owners) come to this board. I wouldn't have know anything about it otherwise, and the fact that people disagree about what the policy should be is no reason to lock these threads. In fact, they're the reason to have this board in the first place.

[Dean]

I think the reference to locking this thread was that there wasn't any new info being added at all related to the topic or even DVC information. There were several derogatory posts. With a somewhat controversial thread, the end seems to come when there's not much to add and things start to get personal. Now there has been some new REAL info added.

There's no question that some of the best info for newbies comes from the controversial threads.

Dean

[KKlecknerWray]

Thank you to those of you who support me. I am horrified that such blatant discrimination would be allowed to exist on these posts.

It's interesting...in Scarlett and LIDisneyfan's pool experiences, there seemed to be a form of "discrimination" in how they were selected and asked to leave the pool. And here, too, on our DVC board, it appears that discrimination is used in determining which posts are selected and deleted from the boards. I sense a trend...

-Kara

http://www.russellwray.com/kara/donald.gif

[TnRobin]

This post is no longer about its original topic. In addition, it appears that there is no interest in returning to the original topic. This thread is closed.

Disney Vacation Club Board Co-Moderator
DVC and Cruise Chat Hostess
Cruise Board List Mistress

<font size=4 color=blue font face="Comic Sans MS">Robin