LA Times Article: Theme Parks Still Looking for Visitors

[hopemax]

http://www.latimes.com/business/printedition/la-fi-theme24aug24.story?coll

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Some of the interesting quotes...


Nationwide, attendance this year at theme parks is expected to be down about 15%, analysts said. At Disney's California Adventure, attendance is forecast to be off 20%, while its companion park, Disneyland, probably will see no change in attendance figures.





Pressler blames some of the attendance issues on the drop-off in international tourists--which make up 20% of the two Disney theme parks' overall visitors--and guests being more careful this summer with their spending.

But Disneyland continues to perform solidly. Last weekend, Disneyland's attendance topped 50,000 on Saturday, while California Adventure's skimmed the 17,000 mark, said management sources. Disneyland has never discounted admission during the summer, nor has it offered free admission for children.



Other theme parks have kept attendance somewhat steady this summer by offering deep discounts. Sea World in San Diego and Busch Gardens in Tampa, Fla., for example, have offered free admission for the rest of the year to guests who purchased one full-price ticket in the spring.

At Knott's Berry Farm in Buena Park, where healthy crowds are turning out for a new roller coaster, discount coupons routinely are offered through grocery stores and fast-food chains. At times, Knott's gives discounts to guests who bring a Coca-Cola product.

Similar offers have helped boost attendance by as much as 28% at Universal Studios, which since mid-June has allowed kids 15 and under free admission with a paying adult. Spokesman Eliot Sekular said the summer has been one of the strongest as a result, with the park also opening two attractions, including one featuring Spider-Man.

[Luv2Roam]

"People still don't get what [California Adventure] is about," said Tim O'Brien, a senior editor at Amusement Business, which tracks attendance and other industry trends.

Uh -- Maybe ME and Disney management are the ones who "don't get" it. There's not much there to "get". :rolleyes:

"Pressler said a lack of demand this summer has prompted the closures of some restaurants inside California Adventure, which also has shorter operating hours..."

Yeah -- that'll bring people in - close the few places to eat and shorten the park hours. That will make guests want to come in DROVES! :jester: :rolleyes:

[mickey4ver]

Last year while visiting DCA, I was very surprised at the number of eating places and rides that weren't operating the day we were there. I thought it was odd, to charge full price to enter, and then not have all operating. I can understand things being unoperable due to refurbs etc., but this just didn't seem fair. Seems they should discount the entrance fee if certain big attractions are not operating due to attendance. I know years ago at Universal in FLA. when we went to buy our tickets, they told us that several attractions were having "issues" and not going to be operating for the day. We could either choose not to go in, or pay full price and they gave us complimentary tickets to return again at another time. I thought that was pretty cool.

[Jeff in BigD]

There is no reason as to why a park (barring a malfunction) shouldn't be running all attractions & all shops for the complete hours that the park is open. The higher-ups think that the public doesn't get it? They totally get it - it's called DCA kinda sucks & most people would have killed to get Disney Sea or Westcot instead.

[DC7800]

Originally posted by Luv2Roam
Yeah -- that'll bring people in - close the few places to eat and shorten the park hours. That will make guests want to come in DROVES! :jester: :rolleyes:

The exact same philosophy which has worked so well in driving Epcot's Future World attendance, but that's (literally) another thread...

[DVC-Landbaron]

There is no reason as to why a park (barring a malfunction) shouldn't be running all attractions & all shops for the complete hours that the park is open. I wish I could remember exactly who on this board said it (I think in reply to the Adventureland starting late). I think it was AV, but I could be wrong. And I know I’ve seen it in print. But it occurs to me that Walt NEVER liked the look of early closings of anything. He called it a “bad” SHOW. And I heartily agree!!! It is a very bad SHOW. Why is it that we all "get it", but the current administration does not!! :(

[Pinnie]

Wow!!!

DCA down 20% from last year?? Boy, you must be able to throw a bowling ball down Paradise Pier and not hit anyone. We were there last year (June) and crowds were thin then! Somehow it doesn't surprise me, since this park lacks a "theme" and cohesion. I found it as stimuating as a state fair, so it's no wonder people aren't flocking back.

Don't get me wrong, Animation and Soaring are great, but they sure don't carry the park. Screamin?? :::Yawn::: Superstar Limo? What a HOOT!! We rode it about 5 times as a "cult favorite" We also never realized the importance Whoopie played in the development of CA!!!!!

In addition, we were told on the Tram ride from the parking lot to the park that the park would close at 10 p.m. yet the nights we were there it closed at 9:00. Now THAT was surprising!!!

pin
remember the magic
DVC/BCV 2002

[Another Voice]

It should be noted that the discounts in the articles given by Knott’s and Six Flags have been going on for years. They were not added just for this summer. Universal’s kids-free discount started in response to the same discount given at DCA last year. And Disney Southern California annual pass as being is the same price as a ticket to Disneyland and California Adventure – it’s virtual the same deal as the “free” passes being given at Sea World and Universal.

I’m very surprised they got any company source to leak the attendance figures to the Times. There’s been a huge campaign to keep the problem out of the headlines and away from the stockholders. On possible reason is that last weekend (I think) had The Monkees playing for the end of the DCA concert series and drove attendance for that day about 5,000 higher than normal. Of course those were all annual passport holders so revenues didn’t increase for that day – but it takes the edge of the numbers for the press.

One other rumor people are hearing is that the rate of attendance decline is actually increasing. Early this year, attendance was supposed to be down on 7%. By the start of the summer it crossed 10%. Now…. There are some whispers that projections for this fall will actually be lower than last year’s post-9/11 attendance. And all of this comes after a solid year of nonstop advertising, discounts and ticket giveaways. And they show the park on the local ABC news (weather, promos, commercial bumpers, etc.) that the image of the Sun Wheel seems to be burned into the monitors they have on the set.

Further cuts are rumored being made in the park. Various shows and character bits are rumored to be cancelled and the holiday lagoon show has been terminated. The hope is that someone in Anaheim is realizing minor and half hearted tweaks aren’t going to improve the place in the slightest and they’ve simply wasted a year.

There is a rush to get the Flik’s carnival area open as early as possible. Rumors say Operations is setting up enough line to accommodate 90 minutes worth of guests clamoring to get in the new acre. That figure was based on the experience of opening ToonTown a decade ago. It has also been commented that no one really believes the Flik’s is going to be all that popular, but “90 minute waits” looks really good on the PowerPoint presentations given in Burbank. And it’s nice just to live that fantasy for a while. The general opinion is that there will be a couple week bounce from all the annual passholders coming in to look, and then Flik’s will have no lasting impact on DCA.

Not a pretty picture. California Adventure seems like it’s going into hibernation for the winter. Hopefully in the spring the place will have a new corporate management that will make the tough decisions to turn the place around.

[Jeff in BigD]

Hmm, I wonder if the higher-ups might be considering following the Six Flags playbook & making DCA a seasonal park?

DLR is no stranger to lowering prices to get people in the gates. About 10 years ago, DL would offer a deal to CA residents to get into the park for $10 through the fall months.

[Bob O]

Actually from what i have read alot of parks are doing very good this year. From SF latest report they said most of the decline in attendance was casued by large dop-offs at Six Flags over Texas, Six Flags Ohio and Six Flags Great Adventure while the rest are doing well and from my own experience Six Flags Great America has been busier than i have seen it in years.
Cedar Point's attendance is up and Holiday World in Indiana is setting a record attendance this year so not all parks are doing as bad as some disney parks. Maybe DCA should offer guests free parking and free soda as a inducement like some parks offer all their guests!!

[hopemax]

And speaking of Holiday World...

http://www.coasterbuzz.com/news/news.asp?NewsID=4359

More attendance records toppled, Holiday World plans expansion 8/12/2002, 8:46:28 AM (ET) - posted by Raven Maven

For the second week in a row, attendance records at Holiday World & Splashin' Safari have been shattered as a record number of visitors vacationed at the theme and water park combo.

“We’re taking a hard look at what ride or attraction to add for next season,” says Will Koch, the parks’ president. “The key words in our 2003 expansion search are ‘quality’ and ‘capacity.’”

Koch says this year's attendance explosion has caused him to be faced with a new challenge. “In the past, it's always been ‘build it and they will come,’” he explains. “But for 2003, it's ‘they’re coming—so build something!’”

Overall, seasonal attendance at Holiday World & Splashin' Safari continues to surpass last year's record season by 21 percent.

Saturday, August 10, a record number of 16,222 guests visited the parks, toppling the record set just last Saturday. In addition, the parks set a new weekday record of 11,722 on Friday. And the week of August 5 through 11 surpassed the previous week’s record attendance by 13 percent, as the parks hosted nearly 80,000 visitors.

Although Koch has not yet made a decision regarding what to add to Holiday World & Splashin' Safari for the 2003 season, he promises to make a decision and announce the parks’ expansion project in the fall.



If 11,700 people can visit a little park in Indiana on a weekday and 16,200 on a weekend, DCA has no excuse with the amount of people in the S. CA area. Disney needs to make the locals love this park as much as the Indianan's love Holiday World.

[mrtoadslastride]

Comparing the numbers for Holiday World and DCA really put the problems of DCA in a different light. I wonder if the Disney board is aware of the similar attendance between the two parks.

[Bob O]

The difference is one park-Holiday World cares about their guests more than the other and goes out of their way to make the guests happy. Ive only heard good things about that park from cleaniness to the employee interaction with guests and hope to visit that park next year!!

[WDWHound]

Its been 5 months since we visited DCA. After our visit, I posted a review that said the park really wasn't that bad, but it was not up to what I would consider Disney standards.

5 months later, when I look back at the park, remember only 3 things.
1) The animation Pavilion. This is easily the best thing in the park.
2) Soarin over Caifornia. This is a great ride.
3) The cast members. As usual, the Disney cast members went out of their way to be helpful and to make our time in the park was as magical as possible.

The list of things I remember about our last visit to Disneyland would not fit on this page. I have visited this park many, many times, many of the attractions I loved are gone, tommorrowland is an empty shell, and still, even given all of this, Disneyland is 50 times more magical than CA.

California Adventure is an OK park that succeeds in being good from time to time. Disneyland is an outstanding park that succeeds in being magical most of the time, despite all of the attractions it has lost. They opened a simply OK park next to the most magical park on earth, and they are surprised that no one wants to go there? They should have known better.

Still, despite my current position in car #3, I have hope. Sooner or later, someone will notice that quality drives attendance and take action. When that day comes, CA may finally become a park worth remembering.

[Jeff in BigD]

I think one point needs to be made that it seems like the majority of WDW visitors buy APs or Park Hoppers, while most of the DLR guests buy single day tickets.

When visiting the different parks at WDW, most people don't really think to themselves "would I pay the price for a single day ticket for this place?" When you pay the cash for the whole day in one park, you tend to be a lot more conscious of the value of a park. I do like DCA, but I certainly don't think it's worth $45 & apparently most people don't either.

[d-r]

Originally posted by Bob O
The difference is one park-Holiday World cares about their guests more than the other and goes out of their way to make the guests happy. Ive only heard good things about that park from cleaniness to the employee interaction with guests and hope to visit that park next year!!

Hi Bob, I've never been to holiday world, but I've seen it on the travel channel roller coaster shows, andI think the Coke thing is cool. I wonder though if the attendance being up in the smaller regional parks, and being down in the larger parks is a result of people being a little more relunctant to put their famliies on a plane - whether terrorism, poor service, or economics - and staying close to home for a small "vacation" rather than loading up and going to Orlando?

[KNWVIKING]

I also have never been to Holiday World but have to think the sudden increase in attendance is an economy/safety issue, not something they just suddenly started doing. Apparently they have always offered a quality experience,it's just that now more people are taking advantage of it because they are staying closer to home. Eventually people will get bored with "staying home" and venture back to WDW or DLR.

[Luv2Roam]

DCA was nice.
But Soarin', Screamer, GRR, Maliboomer and sorcerer's workshop is all I would need to do there.
And if I REALLY wanted Maliboomer, rollercoaster or water rides -- I can drive the two hours to Des Moines IA and do Adventureland.
And entrance fee is only $24.

[Bob O]

I think a park like Holiday World is benefitting from great word of mouth, i haveny heard anything bad about the park and it isnt a thrill park like SF. They have a nice combination of great family rides/a very clean park and treat the guests in a great manner and offer great perks like free parking,free soda,free sun lotion and free tube rentals in the atttached water park which is part of the admission price. maybe disney could learn that you dont have to soak your guests everytime they turn around!!!

[Planogirl]

BobO, it almost sounds like you're describing the way Knotts Berry Farm appeared to me. It has nice rides for all members of the family, appeared clean and the employees were nice. I couldn't complain. :D

Kennywood also appears to be a nice park. I wonder how it's doing? This one is on our short list too.

[Bob O]

Im looking forward to my visit to Knott's!!! Ive also heard good things about Kennywood and their collection of old/classic rides and the nice lanscaping in the park. i wonder if their attendance isnt off due to the bad storms they had about a month ago where people were hurt and some rides were damaged.

[hopemax]

Sometimes I'm so jealous of you guys. One of these years, I'm taking my DH back to Illinois to visit my family (for you guys who live back there...Freeport, IL) and I want to rent a car and spend about 2 weeks driving around and hitting the parks... Great America (last time I was there the Eagle was still the tallest & fastest woodie in the world), King's Island, Cedar Point, Kennywood, Hershey Park, Knoebels. It would me so nice to be able to drive less than 7 hours to get to a 2nd park (and it's a 2 hr drive to get to just one).

[Jeff in BigD]

Knott's is my favorite non-Disney park! :)

Actually some of the people who built DL also built Knott's.

[Bob O]

Hopemax you wouldnt recgonize much of SFGAM since your last visit as alot has changed!!!
JeffinBigD I will see Knott's soon but my favorite non Dis/US park would be Buscg Gardens Williamsburg. It has some great rides, excellant shows and food and it is a beautiful park just to walk around and soak in the scenery.

[DisneyFanGuy]

Other than FrightFest, their annual Halloween festival, we have had TERRIBLE experiences at Six Flags Great America over the past few years. Last year was the worst experience, bar none, that I have ever had in a theme park. It was filthy, filled with rude employees, and everyone in my family was disgusted beyond belief. We sent notes to several offices for Six Flags, and then sent us tickets to come back at Fright Fest. It was better, but not great.

Six Flags runs the dirtiest, most poorly run parks that I have ever seen. We skipped them entirely this year, despite free tickets received for our kids at school. I have visited Knotts, several SF parks, Cedar Point, and several smaller parks over the past few years. I also go to Disney at least once a year. Everyone is better these days than Six Flags. Places like Cedar and Knotts are usually very clean and friendly.

Even my roller coaster loving kids were grossed out last year when an employee sent out a coaster half filled with customers and half filled with vomit covered seats. We were aghast as the employees laughed at the possibility of them getting "hit" by falling vomit as it went through the loop. We skipped the ride.

That was just one story.

Whenever you get depressed about Disney, just go to a Six Flags park. You will immediately feel better.

I grew up at Great America. It should be shut down as far as my family is concerned.

[Bob O]

Six flags park arent up to disney standards but some of their parks are worse than others. I live close to SFGAM and go their often(about 10 times a yr) and while they arent as clean as disney parks i have found the park to be clean this year and for the past couple of years. As for vomit i have never seen what was decribed. Ive seen people vomit on coasters and seen employee's with gloves come out and clean the ride and send out the coaster empty severl times in a row to make sure all is well. I hope you reported the actions you observed to the park right after what you saw took place, if not i would doubt such a story.
I would much perfer to visit a non SF park but i live where i live so i deal with the differences in quality as best i can. Now if only wdw had coasters of the quality of Raging Bull/Batman/Viper it would be great!!

[Planogirl]

I'm not real thrilled with the Six Flags parks either but my opinion is mostly due to a lot of the employees. While there are exceptions, most have been very rude IMO.

I was truly saddened by the acquisition of Fiesta Texas by Six Flags. We haven't been back but hear that so far Fiesta Texas has managed to hang to most of their original character and hasn't completely become a typical Six Flags park. Here's hoping that they won't.

Oh, we do enjoy Fright Nights but only because of the spooky stuff and the silliness. :D

[DisneyFanGuy]

The story about the vomit is true, and we wrote a letter describing it and other experiences that included exact times and descriptions of the employees. The park manager eventually called us personally, verified that he had investigated and confirmed our experiences, and invited us back to Fright Fest. I thought he handled the whole thing pretty well.

Bob, I run 50 restaurants in Wisconsin and Illinois, and last year offered discount tickets to Great America in my stores. I spoke with my advertising agency immediately afterward, and refused to be associated with them again this year.

Another example of their operation last year (described in my letter) was that while standing in line my 8 year old son was burned by a man holding a cigarette. We walked up to several stands asking for a small cup or bag of ice to make him feel better. We were refused at three stands because they inventory the cups. (Every food service operation has a system to record wasted materials.....what happens if a cup falls on the floor?) So I was standing there with my son (crying on my shoulder) being refused a cup of ice by employees because their policy said no. Eventually a restaurant manager got us our ice and said that the employees were wrong for refusing us. (Training, policy, attitude......? I don't know)

Another time in the same day, our bag filled with tee shirts (purchased at the park) became ripped. I took it, along with the receipt to a shop and asked for a replacement bag. They refused, stating that policy prevented them from handing out extra bags.

There was much more, and I am probably too sensitive to employee attitudes because of the business that I am in, but I work the front lines in my restaurants every day and know and understand that Guest Service and Attitude begins with a genuine desire by management to deliver a great experience for their guests. SIX Flags seems to be in an "expansion" mode, and not careing properly for current assets.

I live about two hours north. Last year, as usual, several schools arranged field trips for kids in late May and early June. I attended meetings where their experiences were discussed. This year, they all went elsewhere (Wisconsin Dells) because the organizers were so grossed out. That ended a ten year tradition.

I have also been a very frequent visitor at Great America over the years. (Every year since the preview weekend in 1976). I have been at several of their parks before and after they were acquired by SF and in all cases have seen Cleanliness, Hospitality, and Food Quality suffer. It's clear to me that they are not really that concerned about the guest experience. Cedar Fair, Paramount, and Disney are all far better in those attributes.

Six Flags does add bigger rides more frequently though.

My kids and wife had no desire to go there this year. We may still make the trek to Fright Fest. We have never had a bad experience at that time of year, I think because the crowds are less and they have nearly a week to clean the walkways between days of operation.

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by Planogirl
I was truly saddened by the acquisition of Fiesta Texas by Six Flags. We haven't been back but hear that so far Fiesta Texas has managed to hang to most of their original character and hasn't completely become a typical Six Flags park. Here's hoping that they won't.


We are Fiesta Texas season pass holders. The park is my favorite Six Flags park. It still has lots of character and theming (it was originally a Busch park, so the theming started off strong). The ride mix is very good, they have some great coasters and the employees are generally friendly and well trained. If you go on a Sunday morning, there are literally no lines until around 2pm, and even then the lines are short. The shows which SFFT is famous for are still there and are still very high quality. This year however, I have not seen any street performers.

They are getting a little lax on Maintenance. The animatronics on the Road Runner express stopped working years ago and poor Wiley Coyote looks battered and faded. The same is true with the characters in the Bugs Bunny fume ride. All in all though, the park is well kept and is in good shape.

The only other problem with this park is that it gets HOT in the summer. Its built in an old quarry and when the temperature gets over 100, this park becomes almost hellish.

I recommend you give the park another try next time you are in San Antonio. Despite Six Flags owning it, its still a great little park.

[Bob O]

disneyfanguy I would agree the quality of their employee's can leave alot to be desired, escpecially when compared to disney and in the instances you mentioned they were wrong and treated you and your family in a shoddy manner. Maybe im lucky but i have had few bad experiences with the employee's. But i dont eat at the park because the food is awful and eat outside the parks and buy few souvenir's due to quality/creativity of their products. The letter you sent was good but if i saw somebody vomit on a ride and didnt see the proper procedures used to clean up the mess i would have immedialty reported it to a manager. When people vomit blood is involved and that is a major heath risk if not cleaned up with the proper cleaning agents.This year i have twice seen vomit problems, once on a coaster and once on a log flume and both time the employee's used proper productsto clean up the mess and didnt let customers use the ride as it was run thru the course several times and was cleaned up/cleared up.
But i would agree the quality of their employee's and park operations are second rate. But with it being the only park near my home i have to put up the good with the bad.

[DisneyFanGuy]

True, I probably handled that whole incident poorly. I am pretty quick to complement employees for great service, but sometimes wait awhile on complaints.

The whole Great America quality slide has made us more sad than anything else. Enough whining from me!

[Bob O]

DisneyFanGuy i dont consider it whining at all!!! Maybe its me but i would usually complain more about the negative than praise the positive. I agree with your Six Flags comments. It seem not to be as bad on week days, but alot worse on weekends. The only thing i would say in their defense is the quality of customer at Six Flags can leave alot to be desired at times and i have seen way too many people throw their garbage right on the ground within feet of a garbage can while i havent seen that at a disney park. But im sure their lack of attention to cleanliness can contribute to the problem.