Disney's Imagineers and DisneySea Revealed shows on Travel Channel tonight [Archive] - The DIS Discussion Forums

PKS44

08-19-2002, 11:11 PM

Other thoughts while watching both shows-

It's great to see Disney parks on TV--why is this only seen on the Travel Channel? Why has Disney channel distanced itself from the parks? Or remember the network specials when Epcot opened or the MK opening...I think that one had Dick Van ****(this website forum is automatically censoring the guy's name--it will not let me spell the man's name-unless I do it this way-Vandyke-pretty ridiculous) and Mac Davis sang a nice song about Marceline-Walt's home town...those shows made you really interested and excited about going to the parks.

Why does EVERY show on the Travel Channel have that annoying kinetic editing where the camera is either always moving, or any steady shot is never shown for more than 3 seconds...really annoying and consistently seen in almost all their shows like this-even with that annoying editing though TDS looks spectacular...but I must confess that seeing people wait in line for 2 hours for steamed sausage rolls convinces me that Disney speaks the truth when they say the Japanese market cannot be compared to the US...I see no way that would happen here.

Paul

Mooobooks

08-19-2002, 11:25 PM

I can't tell you how annoyed I am: I have stinking DIGITAL service from Comcast and 200 channels, pay $60 a month, and they don't offer The Travel Channel.
AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

hopemax

08-19-2002, 11:27 PM

but I must confess that seeing people wait in line for 2 hours for steamed sausage rolls convinces me that Disney speaks the truth when they say the Japanese market cannot be compared to the US...I see no way that would happen here.

Really? Why don't you visit the collecting board and see how many people are willing to stand 4+ hours in lines for the opportunity to purchase pins. During one pin promotion at DL, they started lining up at 5 PM the day BEFORE. Americans are just as willing to stand in line for something they want as the Japanese.

PKS44

08-20-2002, 12:01 AM

hopemax-

I see your point, but I think there is a difference...those "limited edition" collectible lines are for something that could last for ever and may even appreciate in value... and are not offered every day...on the other hand, cerainly we have seen with the NY Soup Nazi, the popcorn place in Chicago, the Krispy Kreme craze, people will line up for food in the US...but not for 2 hours...and can you tell me where people in a US theme park will pay for admission-- then spend 2 hours in line for "fast-food" sold everyday from a cart? Food that, well, in a very short time won't be worth ****, it will just be ****? While I marvel at both groups passion for what they want and personally could not see myself waiting for either pins or gyoza, I still don't see US theme park goers ever acting like that over everyday food...

Paul

Lesley

08-20-2002, 12:07 AM

Those giant gyoza looked good! But you have to have eaten gyoza to even know what to expect. Don't know if I'd be willing to stand in line that long for them though.....I can get a pack of frozen ones at Trader Joes.

Ah, I really want to go to Japan.....and I think it would be best if we all learned some Japanese!

One interesting note....my 7yo ds didn't get a very good impression of TDS from the show. He said it looked like all shows and no rides! They were kind of light on showing the rides, weren't they?

My dh was quite impressed by the Mira Costa. He thinks we may actually see something like TDS in the US someday....he has high hopes for the post-Eisner era. I think we'll just be making travel to Japan a priority.

hopemax

08-20-2002, 12:43 AM

and can you tell me where people in a US theme park will pay for admission-- then spend 2 hours in line for "fast-food" sold everyday from a cart?

I really don't think it's as far out of the realm of possibility as you do. Last June (and last year was a slooow June), I was in MK waiting for Spectromagic and I wanted popcorn. We had a spot in Liberty Square, and so I went to the cart that was parked near the intersection of Frontierland and Liberty Square. I waited 45 minutes for my popcorn (I was on day 3 of playing "tour guide" to 12 family members who hadn't been to Disney before, so I really needed a break :) ) If there was only one popcorn wagon in the entire park, I can easily see 2 hour lines forming. Same thing if there was only one Churro cart in Disneyland.

EUROPA

08-20-2002, 07:38 AM

Both were great shows..It got my wife and I excited again (like we needed any help) for our trip in Nov.

If you ever been to WDW-MK on Christmas, Thanksgiving, July 4th then you will see people line up for 2 hours for just about anything. Seems that TDS has those kinds of crowds on a regular basis.

Captain Crook

08-20-2002, 08:07 AM

My kids both went to bed after 3/4 of the TDS show. We all watched the imagineering show and liked it. We have all watched the Paris DL show at loved it & while I saw some great things at TDS, it failed to make my kids or wife thrilled...My nine year old, in fact said "I'd rather go to Paris".

I'm with Paul on the lines. Certainly folks in America will wait for some things but fast food? I don't think so & I think the screams would be huge if this hapened day in, day out and Disney chose NOT to open another window as the Japanese have done. No, I believe the Japanese are very different consumers.

Other comments: Mr. D, if you expect 'dress up' in 95 degrees & 90 % humidity I think you've been in the frozen north too long...;)

The Casa Mira looks REAL nice. This sure looks like it beats the heck out of Univesal's lame Portinfino area...But a mile long corridor???

Voice, I saw a LOT of spinners. Is that acceptable in Japan? Oh, I know the water boats controlled by laser is cool technology but its still just a kiddie ride. Two tiered Carousel...Way cool, but still...Just a carousel. I'm sure I saw Jumpin' Jellyfish!

I will say that Disney in NO WAY could have replicated somehing like this at DL. DCA doesn't have enough room. That is no excuse for what they did wrong at DCA but still the TDS vs DCA argument is on pretty shaky ground.

The Travel Channel: It's great to see Disney opening up to other sources. They don't need this stuff on the Disney Channel because most DC watchers are already in the Disney family. Further, it seemed quite obvious that opposite of Mr. Voices' view, Disney must be quite pleased and proud of the work that has been done at TDS to have allowed such a report to go forward.

TDS...Looks very good to me. But innovative? Not a chance. Just a modern day, no expenses spared, quality theme park. Would Walt have bult it? No way. Been ther done that. Walt would have been far more likely to have built AK or Discovery Cove (with more innovation than was given to either)...
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

Mooobooks

08-20-2002, 10:06 AM

Hope: there IS only one churro cart in the Magic Kindom in Disney World! I have never seen a line, and I am usually the only one there when I have one (as I must) each day.

airlarry!

08-20-2002, 11:09 AM

Mon Capitaine:

We are somewhat in agreement here. I'm talking about your comment that Walt wouldn't have built TDS.

My thought, and it may be semantics, is that there are two answers to this question, or rather two questions to this answer.

Walt wouldn't have built TDS (unless he had to for financial reasons -- ie building MK to improve upon the surrounding area's problems around DL or funding his Epcotopia) just for the sake of building a nautical Disneyland, correct.

But what if you phrased the question this way (and more pertinent to the discussion of Ei$ner's Disney v Walt's Disney):

If Walt were to greenlight a second park at Tokyo Disney Resort in the same mold as Disneyland, or let's say as a sequel to Disneyland, what would he have built? Without chipping at his brain...err...picking his brain, we'll never know, but I would submit that Tokyo Disney Seas is as close as we could get to what a second park should look like.

I guess the question is simple and could be applied to everything the present company does:

Walt hated sequels, but if he had to make one, would he make ___________________? Insert Tokyo Disney Seas or Tarzan & Jane and the philosophy should answer the question for you.

BTW: I've never been, but family has visited Disney Paris and they fell in love with the 'newer' version of Main Street. Their only problem with it is either the European disregard for queues or inadequate queue design in the park.

Another Voice

08-20-2002, 11:29 AM

Hey – one culture has people that will wait in line for two hours for a sausage bun; the other has people that will wait in line for a month to see a sci-fi movie sequel.

First, let me shock our good Captain by agreeing with him. I don’t think DisneySea is truly innovative – just an extremely well done example of the best that Disney theme parks can offer. No, it isn’t innovative as Discovery Cove or even as the original DisneySea-Port Disney would have been. Still, it’s really nice to see someone attempt and achieve quality even if it is “only” an incremental improvement. It's a vast difference from California Adventure's "what's the least we can get away with" design plan.

There was never any thought about building DisneySea in Disneyland’s parking lot. As it was said to me – “putting DisneySea in the middle of landlock suburbia is as stupid as building a California themed park and putting it in California”. When Eisner killed Port Disney, he also killed any hope of seeing DisneySea. Of course a lot of what’s in DisneySea was supposed have shown up in other places – the American Waterfront is very similar to the original (and superior) version of Main Street for Euro Disney, the Little Mermaid Lagoon was supposed to go into the empty submarine pits in Orlando and Anaheim and ‘Center of the Earth’ would have gone in either Fantasyland or Adventure out in the Magic Kingdom. Even the Mira Costa hotel was originally designed for the shores of the Seven Seas Lagoon (between the TTC and the Contemporary).

No doubt that had any of those items had been built as intended, our good Captain would have been praising them as the greatest achievements of all time. It’s not a matter of Japan getting better designs, it a matter that the Japanese management treats their customers better. Entertainment doesn't work like other industries. When you make soap you have to worry about margins and brand image. In entertainment, you have to "wow" people. Build something that people want to see and they will beat down the doors to give you their money. That's what Walt found out in 1955 and the Oriental Land Company found out in 2002. Eisner, without an understanding of what it really takes to create entertainment, learned what happens when you do not give the audience what they want first at Animal Kingdom and then DCA. Sadly, it appears he'll never really understand and it's time he goes to spend some family time in the Hamptons.

And yes, Captain, there are some spinners at DisneySea. And if Dino-Rama looked one-tenth as well as The Little Mermaid Lagoon I’m sure there’d be much less complaining. Again, it’s not the ride mechanism that matters as much as the story. Somehow a giant two story carousel filled with creatures from 1001 Arabian Nights set in a tiled and golden temple says a lot more than a half-sized merry-go-round wedged underneath a steel roller coaster. As they said in the Imgineer show - story, story, story, story, story, story, story, story.

Did anyone catch the fiber optic model of the castle in the background of the interviews during the Imagineers’ show? The one with all the flickering lights putting on a tremendous show? If you’re really interested in knowing what it’s for – Tokyo Disneyland has an anniversary coming up. The same show for Orlando has been cancelled.

YoHo

08-20-2002, 12:01 PM

Americans wouldn't spend two hours in line for Fast Food?!?!?

Do you people actually live in this country? Have you been to a Krispy Kreme. (especially one north or West.)

2 hours isn't all that bad a wait. You have a line of the door and people ordering 4 or 5 dozen doughnuts.
There is a Krispy Kreme in San Jose/Santa Clara area of California. Reasonably Close to Intel's corporate Headquarters. Intel has 4 private Jets a day from San Jose up to Hillsboro Oregon. Oregon has no Krispy Kreme. At least 4 dozen doughnuts are moved north on each of those flights.

And AV, one month? Where were you? People lined up for Star Wars Ep2 starting in January That's 5 months.

No, Americans would never act like those kooky Japanese.
:rolleyes:

raidermatt

08-20-2002, 12:32 PM

Those wacky, wacky Japanese... Imagine, making a beautifully executed theme park immensely popular. Lucky for Disney, Americans don't care about such details as themeing and show. Otherwise, DCA would be a ghost town....

Captain Crook

08-20-2002, 12:42 PM

No Yoho I don't live in America...I live in the Keys (The Conch Republic) and that should tell you a lot! My main point is the intentional wait. Disney Seas knows they could fix the situation & they don't because it's become kind of a cult thing to actually stand in a line.:confused: No lines for me Bubba!

AV, it's great to agree on something occasionally (the innovation aspect) & actually I disagree with little, if anything, you've said.

My comment about the spinners was merely to set you up (as I'm sure you realize) and true to form you gave me Dino-Rama wth both barrells...Despite the fact that I am the only person on earth that actually likes DR!

Lastly, as to Miracosta. It looked great, but not as impressve at the AKL. I've seen the hotels in Vegas & while these and certainly Miracosta are more oppulent, they don't appeal to everyone. I'd rather see a giraffe or a zebra than a Matisse or Renoir most any time...But that's just me...
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

PKS44

08-20-2002, 02:21 PM

..about having only one sausage bun (gyoza) cart with a 2 hour wait...

It also could not happen here because the company that put Millionaire on 4 nights a week and a Disney store in every mall would never have only one outlet for something that seemed that popular...what they would do is open a sausage bun cart everywhere and destroy the specialness of it and kill the Gyoza that lays the golden eggs...

And to YoHo, if you look at my earlier post I specifically mention Krispy Kreme but note that people have not paid $50 admission to get in to the park to then stand in line for Krispy Kreme, they do so in their own free time...I still say that the claims that the markets are different are probably somewhat legitimate...this does not excuse the complete disregard for everything AV has said about needing to WOW your audience...Disney has been starving the themepark goose and now are left with a couple of rotten eggs (AK, DCA) (Please no flames defending AK-financially it is not a golden egg)

Captain Crook

08-20-2002, 02:59 PM

No flames Paul and really no "disregards" either...I specifically said that I agreed with Mr. Voice, did I not?

DCA was not thought out well this is apparant, but neither does it have no redeemable value. While not chock full-o-quality as we would prefer it does have three great rides plus a couple great 3-D clones, a great Animation bulding & soon ToT & the new Aladdin Show. It wasn't built aywhere near what it SHOULD HAVE BEEN but it will get fixed.

TDS does not need to be fixed.

As for AK since you asked me not to go there, I won't...;)
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

Miss Park Avenue

08-20-2002, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Another Voice

Did anyone catch the fiber optic model of the castle in the background of the interviews during the Imagineers? show? The one with all the flickering lights putting on a tremendous show? If you?re really interested in knowing what it?s for ? Tokyo Disneyland has an anniversary coming up. The same show for Orlando has been cancelled.

That was so cool! What a shame for us US visitors!

You'd never see me standing for two hours waiting for some hot dog looking thing when I paid 50 bucks to get in. !

I'll take the American way! I'll wake up at the crack of dawn 60 days before my trip and set my watch to military time and call on 3 different phones for P.S. for Cindy's table!:D :D :D

BRERALEX

08-20-2002, 04:12 PM

kripsy kreme example-good
star wars example-sucked

av when we gettin a ORLaNDOdisneysea or even lolol a CONEYISLANDdisneysea

NHMickey

08-20-2002, 05:02 PM

It was fun just to watch and get a little Disney Fix!!! Now to watch the AK one...

toefungus

08-20-2002, 10:25 PM

Anyone catch the AK one? It was great! I think I appreciate more now what went and goes into AK daily. I also learned a lot about how Kilimanjaro Safaris works and much more. I was sad though that they had to show Dino-Rama, that was the worst part of the show. But besides that TWO THUMBS UP!! :D

Jeff in BigD

08-21-2002, 12:09 AM

Drag! I missed the shows. Any idea when they'll show them again?

Captain Crook

08-21-2002, 07:34 AM

Naturally we loved the AK show. The Safari truly is amazing (larger than MK!). I also don't understand why so many here (even friends) don't like the Safari 'poaching' premise. I don't think it gets 'older' any more than any other attraction vewed over and over ... and seriously 'poaching' is a big problem and Disney should be commended for at least attempting to make people aware...Also interesting to note is who's idea ITTBAB was, huh??? Oh, it was Michael Eisner's for those who missed it.

As for Dino-Rama, toefungus I'm surprised you didn't like that section. For even if you don't like DR itself I thought the imagineers did an excellent job of explaining what WAS accomplished. After all, in the long run the area may not have been something most people think Disney should have done, but they DID do it well...

I love that Disney is opening up on these shows. It indicates that they are aware of the competetion (IMO) and this can't be a bad thing...
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

toefungus

08-21-2002, 08:48 AM

I held off on judging Dino-Rama until I saw and experienced it for myself. They first thing that came to mind when I saw it was "What the hell is this, and what is it doing here?!" It just was so out of place in Dinoland USA. THey didn't do a bad job with the actual place, but it just didn't fit into Dinoland. Also after seeing Fliks fun Fair, I think we got shafted with Dino-Rama.

mrtoadslastride

08-21-2002, 09:01 AM

I think we should all send a thank you note to ME for coming up with the idea for Bugs Life just 8 months before the opening of the park!

BTW, I am probably being too cynical, but I noticed that in all three shows some of the shots of people riding rides included cast members on the rides. I haven't noticed this on other Travel Channel specials of other parks. Maybe the other parks are smart enough to have the riders remove their name tags before they get on the ride though.

Bstanley

08-21-2002, 09:23 AM

I wish our local cable system got the Travel Channel...

Sorry Capt. sir, but it could not have been The Big ME's idea to do ITTBAB. It has been determined that he is literally incapable of doing anything good. I have it on excellent authority that, in fact, anything good done while he's been CEO has been done OVER his strenuous objections. Joe Rohde or PP must have fought to have ITTBAB done.

;-)

toefungus

08-21-2002, 09:33 AM

but it could not have been The Big ME's idea to do ITTBAB.

They said on the show, it was Eisner's idea to put a show in the Tree of Life. Eventhough he hasn't been performing that good latley, but he does have imput and tries to help out with the parks.

Another Voice

08-21-2002, 12:18 PM

First, “opening” up Disney through television isn’t really anything new at all. Walt started this little TV show back in 1954 and spent an entire year hyping Disneyland before it even opened. And throughout the years he went many times behind the scenes to show new attractions and such. Watch ‘Vault Disney’ sometime for some great old episodes. In recent years they’ve tried to keep the park stuff on Disney-owned channels mostly out of greed. Maybe someone decided that free publicity is a good thing even if someone else collects the ad revenue.

As for the poaching scene – to me it just doesn’t fit the tone of the Safari. Throughout the entire ride you see REAL hippos, REAL elephants, REAL lions, REAL giraffes, REAL baboons, and then suddenly we’re thrown a FAKE elephant and plotline. It comes off like watching an episode of the ‘Crocodile Hunter’ and then sudden the Brady Bunch shows up for an all-singing, all-dancing musical finale.

People want to see and learn about the real animals. There’s no need to throw in a fictional story on top of it. The poacher plot is so underdeveloped (and pedantic) that it adds nothing to our understanding of what we’ve just seen. The time would have been better spent showing more animals.

P.S. Einser did not come up with the idea about the show in the Tree of Life. It had always been planned to be a film theater. The original film was to have been a serious, 'Circle of Life' effort. Eisner said he thought education is boring. Actually, he suggested cancelling the film to save money. WDI knew it was really stupid to open up the park without anything in its central building and the park was lite on attractions to beging with. With so little time left, WDI went around to a lot of people asking for help. Their friends at Pixar had this little idea centered around a movie they were working on....

The "Eisner thought of it" is just one more corporate lie told by people trying to keep in the good graces of the boss. There aren't a lot of poeple left at WDI these days and if you have to fib a little for a paycheck, that's okay to a lot of people.

Captain Crook

08-21-2002, 12:30 PM

Joe Rhode is a liar? OMG!:o

Voice, I'm not sure but I think you jut called me pedantc...Well, I guess that's ok.:eek:

I understand the complaint surrounding the little "play" but as the father of kids who have watched this, along with the somewhat disturbing movies on poaching in the que, I honestly think this simplistic approach works for the generation it is aiming.

I think it'd be hard to get adults to change their view on conservation (whatever they are) but with the kids hope that something will get through is always possible...I just think this works...

As for ITTBAB, it was actually I who suggested i!:p
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

toefungus

08-21-2002, 12:33 PM

You have to have some storyline for the sarafi. The poacher scene also adds more excitment to the ride. And you say that poaching is fictional. Well why don't you take a realy safari into Africa and you'll see that poaching is REAL. I forget exactly what they said about it last night, but the poaching section was put there for a reason, and to make people aware of what's really happening to wildlife in Africa.

YoHo

08-21-2002, 12:46 PM

But poaching isn't nearly the problem it used to be. it's like they couldn't think of another theme so they decided on poaching.

toefungus

08-21-2002, 12:55 PM

Yeah, you're right. Poaching is no problem. Who cares if 1000 or so elephants are mudererd. http://www.hsus.org/ace/14378
:mad:

Captain Crook

08-21-2002, 12:58 PM

Thanks toefungus. Puts it in proper perspective I'd say...
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

Bstanley

08-21-2002, 01:03 PM

Well Capt. sir you did good if you suggested it. I guess if I wore an earring the size of a Morris Mini and an almost perfect handlebar mustache I would butter up my boss also...

You know - the idea of a serious film at the center of AK just doesn't work for me. ITTBAB keeps it light and easy. I enjoy ITTBAB and can't really envision a more serious film that I would enjoy as much.

The poaching story annoys me because it always screws up my videos. All of a sudden the truck/bus starts roaring away, bouncing the camera (and everybody) up and down and from side to side. I would have prefered that we would sneak up on the poachers instead of trying to run them down...

YoHo

08-21-2002, 01:32 PM

Let me put things back into perspective.

One estimate has it that 70,000 elephants were being killed every year from the mid-1970s through the 1980s.
http://www.bized.ac.uk/virtual/dc/wildlife/luangwe/issue5.htm

Now I'm a conservationist at heart and Poaching is a disturbing and horrendous thing, but to suggest that it is a problem the way it used to be is questionable. I'm pretty sure that most Zoos raise the same amount of awarness while letting us actually view the animals.

PKS44

08-21-2002, 01:33 PM

...and again with regard to the AK show-HAS ANYONE AT THE TRAVEL CHANNEL EVER HELD A SHOT FOR MORE THAN 3 SECONDS! Every show on that channel is the same- camera shows a shot, cuts to another, camera zips in zooms out, all of it in 3 to 5 seconds...Travel is about slowing down and soaking in the beauty, not hurring through to show as many different pictures as you can in the shortest time....Am I the only one who feels this way about their programs?

Paul

daannzzz

08-21-2002, 02:57 PM

"""....Am I the only one who feels this way about their programs?"""

You are not alone. I love roller coasters ( welll watching them) and can hardly stand to watch their(And Dicovery channle and The Learning Channel) programs about thrill rides and coasters. It is all to chopped up and feells like you are viewing from a floundering sea vessel!
The Disney Programs were presented in the same manner as if the only ones who would be watching were channel surfing between MTV and The Travel Channel!!

Jeff in BigD

08-21-2002, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by daannzzz
You are not alone. I love roller coasters ( welll watching them) and can hardly stand to watch their(And Dicovery channle and The Learning Channel) programs about thrill rides and coasters. It is all to chopped up and feells like you are viewing from a floundering sea vessel!
The main reason that they chop up the shots of roller coaster is to prevent motion sickness of the viewer. I took my camcorder on a lot of rides at DL & when I got home I couldn't watch more than 5 minutes before I would get headaches. When I took a video editing course later, the point had been mentioned to us. The longest you can really keep moving shot with no break on the small screen is about 10-15 seconds. While I also wish there was a way to hold a steady shot through a ride, it's currently not possible without the majority of viewers getting motion sickness.

PKS44

08-22-2002, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Jeff in BigD

The main reason that they chop up the shots of roller coaster is to prevent motion sickness of the viewer. I took my camcorder on a lot of rides at DL & when I got home I couldn't watch more than 5 minutes before I would get headaches. When I took a video editing course later, the point had been mentioned to us. The longest you can really keep moving shot with no break on the small screen is about 10-15 seconds. While I also wish there was a way to hold a steady shot through a ride, it's currently not possible without the majority of viewers getting motion sickness.

ok, so why do they chop up shots of everything else? I have timed it---watch a show and see how long they hold any shot...it is rare if you can count to 5 seconds--they are trying to make it look like a music video --and travel is not music video...I wish they would stop it.

King Triton

08-22-2002, 04:29 PM

WOW!!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: DisneySea looks Awesome! That was a great show. I wished they spent more time showing all the cool rides.

To see video clips of the great DisneySea rides, click on

www.barrybedford.com

Now that's how to do a theme park RIGHT.

It was funny when they showed that DisneySea executive say Japanese people go to DisneySea for escapism. I thought of Californians going to DCA to escape. :p

Speaking of DCA, you see how huge quality gap between DCA and DisneySea. I know DisneySea had more investors, but DCA looks like a roadside carnival compared to DisneySea. Come on Disney....why don't you team up with Bill Gates and build a DisneySea over here. Disney says they can't afford to do a DisneySea quality but yet they paid Michael Eisner over $700 million dollars last year (not to mention the mega bucks they pay the other top suits). Don't tell me Disney can't afford quality.:mad:

Hey, why don't we build a DisneySea in Orlando? "If you build it, they will come."

"If you dream it, you can do it." - Walt Disney

See ya

King Triton

Judy from Boise

08-24-2002, 09:42 PM

TDS, is a beautiful park....but you can't show what doesen't exist, mainly cool rides !

Werner Weiss

08-24-2002, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by King Triton
I know DisneySea had more investors, but DCA looks like a roadside carnival compared to DisneySea. Come on Disney....why don't you team up with Bill Gates and build a DisneySea over here.
King Triton, it's not that I don't agree with your premise that DisneySea looks far more impressive than DCA. But please allow me to correct some assumptions and factual errors.

It's not that DisneySea has "more investors" than DCA. The parks were buit by two different companies -- Oriental Land Company and The Walt Disney Company. The executives of the companies obviously have different philosophies on how to build and operate a successful theme park. But it has nothing to do the number of investors.
Originally posted by King Triton
Disney says they can't afford to do a DisneySea quality but yet they paid Michael Eisner over $700 million dollars last year (not to mention the mega bucks they pay the other top suits).
Actually, The Walt Disney Company has never said that they "can't afford to do a DisneySea quality." The executives at Disney in Burbank made business decisions that they felt would provide the best return on the company's investment. (All indications now are that they made bad business decisions regarding DCA.) But they could easily have afforded to invest more capital up front if they had believed that would be good business. And they could still make the major investment to make DCA into a real "you just gotta go there 'cause it's so insanely great" park -- but the executives still think that some more modest additions represent a better business strategy.

If Disney had wanted to invest more capital in DCA, they wouldn't have needed Mr. Gates' money. Keep in mind that The Walt Disney Company bought Fox Family Worldwide for approximately $5.3 billion (when you include the assumption of approximately $2.3 billion in debt) last year. That's what News Corporation (Fox) reported. See http://www.newscorp.com/feg/fegpress/news_138.html .

Also, Disney didn't pay Michael Eisner "over $700 million dollars last year." For the fiscal year that ended September 30, 2001, Mr. Eisner received a base salary of $1 million. No bonus. No stock options. See http://www.thestreet.com/tech/georgemannes/10006227.html . (Over the previous five years, Mr. Eisner's total compensation from salary, bonuses, and stock options was around $700 million. See http://www.forbes.com/2001/04/26/eisner.html .)

Please don't consider this an attack on you, Mr. Triton.

Jeff in BigD

08-25-2002, 04:49 AM

Originally posted by PKS44
ok, so why do they chop up shots of everything else? I have timed it---watch a show and see how long they hold any shot...it is rare if you can count to 5 seconds--they are trying to make it look like a music video --and travel is not music video...I wish they would stop it.
A static shot for too long can be boring. The desired effect of the show is to generate excitement & that is one way to accomplish that. When I started working with video, I was surprised to find that you rarely use more than 5-10 seconds per shot.

Most of the time when you're watching a shot where someone is being interviewed & the screen cuts to to show something different (even though you still hear the person speaking) & then cuts back to the person - they do this because the dialog is rarely perfect in linear form. In other words, if the person talking says 8 sentences, the first 3 sentences may have been 5 minutes into the interview, the next 2 sentences could be 12 minutes into the interview & the last 3 sentences 18 minutes into it & the shots are used to cover up, what would otherwise be an obvious lapse in time, which would be more jarring to the viewer.

Jeff in BigD

08-25-2002, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by Captain Crook
I'd rather see a giraffe or a zebra than a Matisse or Renoir most any time...But that's just me...
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:
Yeah, I think it's just you. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy animals as much as the next guy, I don't understand how you could even compare the two. :confused:

Jeff in BigD

08-25-2002, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by Captain Crook
I will say that Disney in NO WAY could have replicated somehing like this at DL. DCA doesn't have enough room.
I'll agree with the last part, but not the first. The area used for Downtown Disney would have easily made up for the needed space. I think they could have also made essentially the same park, but a little more compact. Don't think so? Just look a few hundred yards north to the gates of DL. A substantially smaller park, yet it's got tons of rides, without feeling cluttered & it kicks MK's ****. I haven't been to DLP, but by the accounts I've read, it's closer to DL than MK.

Jeff in BigD

08-25-2002, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by King Triton
....why don't you team up with Bill Gates and build a DisneySea over here.
You had me until this line. http://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/family/headshake.gif

Captain Crook

08-25-2002, 08:22 AM

I don't understand how you could even compare the two.
No offense, but that sounds a little elitist to me Jeff. The comparison is simply that I prefer the beauty, majesty & wonder of the art prduced by life itself over the passive, acquired tastes of the staid & traditional. Does this make me uncivilized? Uneducated, perhaps? Further, on a site of Disney fans I think it quite obvious that most would prefer other forms of visual entertainment to fine art...Otherwise we'd be having this discussion on an art related site would we not?... And we'd all be taking our vacations at the art galleries of the world...

I love art and my SIL is a very succesful painter, but it doesn't speak to me nearly as much as a giraffe loaping across the savannah or the King of Beast perched upon his rock, surveying the kingdom. I further am moved by the beauty under the sea as we are avid scuba divers. The beauty, serenity & solitude are artistic in their otherworldliness.

I don't understand how you could even compare the two.
I'm sorry, Jeff, but it is I who don't understand how you cannot see the correlation of the beauty of life and the beauty of someones life that is art...
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

Captain Crook

08-25-2002, 08:30 AM

With regard to DCA & TDS...There IS NO WAY any passable resemblence of TDS could have been manufactured at The DL Resort. DD was a necessity as was the GC and there just isn't enough room to do it properly. Even when the original proposal for what became Disney Seas was introduced for California it was going to built on the Coast (perhaps someone remembers where) because there wasn't enough room at DL.

You'll get no argument from me that DL is smaller and yet better than MK...None at all. But DS at DL? Just not enough room.
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

PKS44

08-25-2002, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by Jeff in BigD

A static shot for too long can be boring. The desired effect of the show is to generate excitement & that is one way to accomplish that. When I started working with video, I was surprised to find that you rarely use more than 5-10 seconds per shot.

Jeff-

What bothers me is that the Travel Channel rarely uses even 3 seconds per shot, forget about 5 seconds, and as for 5 to 10 seconds??? I have never seen it...I would be grateful for a six second "slow panning shot" of a part of DisneySea or Epcot or whateverpark they are filming...My question was rhetorical really...I completely understand that they are TRYING to generate excitement, but they over do it and instead generate motion sickness...I am not arguing that they shoot like Michaelangelo Antonioni-but just as a static shot for too long can be boring, what they accomplish with their never ending short snips/cuts is a monotony as well...if you like it, fine...others appear to have no problem with it, as well....still,even if I don't work with video professionally I know what I like to watch, and what I don't. ;)

I have noticed that Disney on it's promotional videos and commercials and even it's print ads always tends to show LESS than they could...(I was blown away by the Wilderness Lodge the first time I saw it even though I had seen commercials, pictures,etc)...I think they felt that they would rather surprise you with more than you expect than give you a clear idea of what to expect...you know, come and see this, instead of giving anyone the option of having said, well, I have seen enough of that, I don't have to actually go.....that seems wise...but a travel documentary need do no such thing...it should make you want to go there but it should also give you an idea that you ALMOST have been there after you watched it. After watching most Travel Channel theme park shows I don't usually feel either...they don't show enough---DisneySea was an exception, maybe because the park is so exceptionally well done.

Paul

Judy from Boise

08-25-2002, 11:58 AM

Long Beach, CA

goofyandmore

08-25-2002, 12:54 PM

I can't find the travel channel on cablevision. Does anybody who has cablevision know if they have it? thanks, Carolyn

Another Voice

08-25-2002, 01:21 PM

Captain, sir, no one is arguing that people want a duplicate of DisneySea built in Disneyland’s parking lot. All we want is something that shows the same level of effort, the same level of imagination, and the same level of respect for the guests that the Oriental Land Company has shown.

People don’t hate California Adventure because it’s a rotten park. People don’t like it because the place is insulting to our intelligence. It’s one thing to be swindled out of money, but it’s quite another to have the “the fools will pay fifty bucks for anything Disney®” attitude rub into our faces.

Captain Crook

08-25-2002, 03:27 PM

Re-read a lot of the posts Mr. Voice, I think A LOT of people did/do want a recreation of TDS...If I'm wrong then it becomes purely semantical misunderstanding on my part.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone that DCA isn't what it coulda/shoulda been. I will defend what it meant to our trip & what I think it will eventually turn out to be (and yes that may be under the new management).

By all means Disney should NEVER have tried to pass off the number of lame & off the shelf attractions as 1st tier, Disney material. Agreed, agreed, agreed.:p

Thanks for the reminder Judy!
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

Testtrack321

08-25-2002, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Captain Crook

By all means Disney should NEVER have tried to pass off the number of lame & off the shelf attractions as 1st tier, Disney material. Agreed, agreed, agreed.:p

We hit the nail on the head Captain. It's not that the cycle rides are there, it's Disney passing it to us as "Indiana Jones and the Forbidden Eye". Splash isn't Screamin'. But Disney want's us to think that.

What they need is an attraction that Disney can present without a spin.

King Triton

08-25-2002, 09:09 PM

I was just pointing out the huge difference in quality between DisneySea and DCA. DisneySea is AWESOME!!:p

I'm a big Disney fan and I want to see DisneySea quality parks here in the U.S.A.

Can I get an "Amen" out of that?

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

King Triton

Another Voice

08-26-2002, 12:14 AM

People are using DisneySea simply because it’s a tangible example of something good. It’s like you’re eating in a restaurant and they deliver a really good looking meal to someone at the next table. Suddenly that’s what you’re hungry for. Same thing here.

It’s also curious that no one is saying “gee, I wish we had Animal Kingdom instead”.

Captain Crook

08-26-2002, 07:55 AM

People are using Disney Sea because it is a tangible example...
OK...I'm not sure that's what everyone was actually saying but OK...For the umteenth tme I will add that I agree that DCA should have been built with the same thought, imgination and care that TDS was. They woud not have the problems thery are now having if it had been.

As for your AK crack...Well, comparing AK & DCA is still apples & oranges. The idea & imagination was there behind the building of AK whether you think they actually followed their plan or not...DCA never had the chance to succeed that AK had...I know that in your opinion AK was ruined by cost cuts but the fact is the imagination is still evident at AK. DCA's plan was justbasc from the start andwhile could still have been great, the initial plan WAS flawed.
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

raidermatt

08-26-2002, 12:36 PM

I think everybody's in agreement that the important thing in the DCA debacle is that a higher level of committment to quality and imagination is what was needed (and still is...). Choosing the best theme is still important, but without the committment, it really doesn't matter.

I also agree with the Captain about the relatively higher level of committment in AK as opposed to DCA. AK may not be everything it could have or should have been, but its several entire levels closer to the "Disney Standard" than DCA. That doesn't make all of the AK decisions OK, it's just a relative comparison.

What's most disturbing is the fact that DCA came after AK. The mistakes that were made with AK were not corrected, and instead were cultivated and compounded. And then they threw in a few new ones as well...

Had AK came after DCA, at least we could point to the improvement and say maybe they were learning. Instead, they seem to be regressing.

DEE DEE

08-26-2002, 08:37 PM

TDS really looked great! What a shame Mr Eisner is turning the American Parks into Xanadu .I wonder why he is only interested in Japan and China and neglecting WDW?The Floating Jellyfish and Under the Sea Adventure really looked like fun!

PKS44

08-26-2002, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by raidermatt
I.

What's most disturbing is the fact that DCA came after AK. The mistakes that were made with AK were not corrected, and instead were cultivated and compounded. And then they threw in a few new ones as well...

Had AK came after DCA, at least we could point to the improvement and say maybe they were learning. Instead, they seem to be regressing.

What is equally disturbing is what they say...Nothing is ever their fault for bad decisions...nothing wrong with AK...it's the public's misperception of it...nothing wrong with DCA..it's the economy and the dip in tourism...and meanwhile they have "successfully" made spending cuts in the parks...the word success in the parks should refer to delivering entertainment.

Paul

Bstanley

08-27-2002, 08:27 AM

It’s also curious that no one is saying “gee, I wish we had Animal Kingdom instead”.

Why would anybody say that? They've got it...Nobody says "Gee, I wish I we had Epcot" either.

Especially with today's Southwest Airlines prices anybody in LA can get to WDW with a friend for less than half the price of renewing their car tag!

King Triton

08-27-2002, 12:24 PM

I wonder.....do you think the people of Japan are saying,"Gee, I wish Disney would have built DCA here instead of DisneySea."

:teeth:

King Triton

Bstanley

08-27-2002, 01:07 PM

I wonder what the bottom line is?

Allegedly the suits built DCA instead of TDS because of cost.

Whether it was built as an attempt to squeeze a buck out of people the suits thought would mistake a Tilt-a-Whirl for a Disney attraction if it had a cardboard cutout of Goofy in front of it or as an honest strategic planning choice to only build $750M worth, it really doesn't matter - it ain't working either way.

So - how many people would have to show up at the gate to pay for TDS(equivalent)/Anaheim?

TDS cost what? $2B? How much of that was for the park and how much for the monorail/hotel/etc?

Do we have to wait for The Big ME to move to Long Island for somebody to recognize the obvious? Or is it possible that in his desperation to stay The Big ME he'll listen to whoever replaces PP?

Shoot - Is PP sufficiently identified with the failures of the parks & resorts segment over the past few years that he won't be able to dodge this bullet? Or will he pawn it off on someone else again?

I sure wish somebody could tell the future around here... :-)