To Tip or not to Tip?

[milmore104]

I was just wondering if anyone feels the way I do. I don't understand why I have to tip EVERYONE! I mean I do tip people and tip well we do but why do we? Why do we have to tip every person that touches are bags even if it's for a 3 inch move? I just get upset about the whole tipping thing. Imean no one tips me for my work! Isn't it there job to clean our rooms, move our bags, bring us new towels? They are getting paid for this right?
I just feel that by the time our vacation is over we have spent about $300 on tipping people! Is that right?

[gepetto]

Tipping is not required. You don't HAVE to tip anyone.:D

Disney does not list housekeeping as one of their tipped positions.

[Kallison]

We have three able bodied kids so we carry our own bags. As for the housekeepers, if they do a good job, which most of the time they do, I tip. Usually $3 to $4 per day, I feel they deserve it. I'm sure their hourly wage is minimal. It's not a financial hardship and on one trip the housekeeper gave us two lovely Disney frames at the end of our stay. Restaurants we tip accordingly.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by milmore104
I was just wondering if anyone feels the way I do. I don't understand why I have to tip EVERYONE! I mean I do tip people and tip well we do but why do we? Why do we have to tip every person that touches are bags even if it's for a 3 inch move? I just get upset about the whole tipping thing. Imean no one tips me for my work! Isn't it there job to clean our rooms, move our bags, bring us new towels? They are getting paid for this right?
I just feel that by the time our vacation is over we have spent about $300 on tipping people! Is that right?

If yu don't want to tip, you do'nt have to. Move your own bags, eat at counter service restaurants, self park, etc. But if you have someone assist you, it is customary and expected that you will tip them. They are not paid a living wage, and rely on tips to survive. As far as housekeeping, if you don't want to tip them, don't. I choose to for a variety of reasons.

Anne

[milmore104]

I guess my words are not coming out the way I want them to! What I'm trying to say is way are tips expected? I mean I don't ask for our bags to be taken to our room they just are and the second the bellman drops the last bag his hand is out for a tip. I just find that rude! I once tipped the bellman $5 for bringing 1 bag to our room and he looked at us like it wasn't enough. I just don't understand I guess. I do like to tip people if they do something nice for my family. Like one maid who knew we returned to our hotel ever afternoon to go in the pool. She whould always have extra towels waiting for us in our room when we returned. I did tip her generously. I guess I'm just one of those people that do things for other people just to be nice. I don't do things to try and get a tip!


To gepetto:
Disney has a list of positions that expect to be tipped?

[ducklite]

They generally do not automatcially move your bags. If they are approaching and reaching for them, and you do'nt want them to move them (ie you do'nt want to tip for it), just politely decline with a "that's OK, we can handle them", and they'll go on to help someone else. I've brought in my own bags, and I've had them bring them for me, depending on how much I had to bring in.

Anne

PS--$5 is more than enough for one bag, unless it was the size and weight of a VW. :)

[gepetto]

The list of tipped positions was in our AKL room in a brochure of resort info.

We usually park out own car. I prefer using Disney transportation for our entire vacation so we don't valet park.

It depends on how long we stay as to whether we take in our own bags. If we have a lot of bags, we tip the man that brings them into the room $10. If we just have a couple of bags we take them in ourselves

Whether or not you tip housekeeping is a personal choice. i stopped tipping the AKL housekeeper because she didn't make up our room until 4PM every day. We did call after the first day and request that they do it earlier since my kids were always resting up from the parks at that time. Didn't help. Later that week, someone new started doing our room and we tipped her every day.

[robinb]

Tipping for moving bags is my great quandary. I like to have my bags moved for me and I don't mind tipping. But ... I feel that sometimes I need to tip 2 people each way. First, there is the person who removes the bag from your car then drops them off at the bell stand. Then, there is the person who takes them from the bell stand after you have you room number and then up to the room and unloads them. The same happens on the way out :(.

Sometimes we have so many bags (because we drive) I spend a small fortune getting my bags to and from the room. We also usually have too many bags to carry them ourselves. I used to have the "whoever touches the bags last gets the tip" philosophy, but the valet parkers are so nice ....

[Eeyore1954]

Tipping or gratuities are ALWAYS optional. While a tip may be customary, it is never required. I never tip someone out of concern for how much they may or may not earn. What a person chooses to do for a living is exactly that -- their choice.

Having said that, I normally do offer a gratuity for various services (bellmen, valet parking, housekeeping, restaurant servers, etc.). I don't feel any obligation to offer a gratuity; it is an expression of thanks for the service provided.

My DW and I factor gratuities into our budget. We prepare Mousekeeping envelopes before the trip and put the gratuity in for each day. For bellman, valets, etc. I tip if we use the service. Normally, I don't need help with luggage as we usually have luggage with wheels and handles. Often we self-park -- the exercise does me more good than the young men running for cars.

[mkymouse4ever]

Just being back, I was really thinking about this, too. I always tip and for housekeeping @ the poly the staff was overly thankful, and we did have fast, early service, with a few extra towels. At the BC we tipped the same way and nothing, room done much later, minimal towels, once told " I'm out of face towels so if you need more than 1 call on your phone". They were nice but I didn't tip 1 day and the service was excellent the next, I guess she just expected it. At the poly the bellman was afraid to touch our bags, we were asked twice you want help with your bags, and did notice more people doing there own bags then not. I feel if the service is there I will tip (&well).
:D MKY

[WolfpackFan]

Originally posted by robinb
Tipping for moving bags is my great quandary.

I have to agree with this, I was a little confused as to which of the Bell staff you tipped. Do you tip the fellow who helps get luggage out of car or do you tip the person who brings the bags to your room or do you tip both? On our AKL trip, I tipped both, but later heard that you should just tip the last person who handles your bags; ie - the person who brings them to your room.

I did tip housekeeping, but did notice that they were not listed as staff to be tipped. Also, why is it assumed that housekeeping are paid minimum wage? Has any housekeeping staff ever posted here that they were paid just minimum wage? Just curious. They are the ones who I probably will not tip next trip down. As long as Disney does not feel that they should be tipped, why should I?

[milmore104]

I've loved reading peoples feelings on tipping. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one out there that doesn't get it. I think we are all in the same boat of who we tip for touching our bags. I mean in one trip there's the guy at the airport that helps you w/ your bags from your car to the ticket counter $10, then the same service when you arrive at the airport only he takes it to your shuttle $10, then you tip the shuttle driver $10 for the ride and taking your bags on and off, right then the shuttle driver hands them off to the curbside guy who holds your bags until your room is ready $10, then you have the guy who brings your bags to your room $10 that's $50 already and your vacation has yet to begin!
I know people say carry your own bags but it's hard when you are carrying a one year old! I just don't understand who and when you should tip someone. I mean do I really have to tip everyone that touches our bags? Or like at the hotel do they split tips at the days end?

[Disneydenise]

I really have a hard time with the tipping of the bags thing. i usually only give the guy who gets the luggage out and puts it on the cart $.50 per bag. I give the guy who drives us in the little golf cart to our room and then takes us up and in $1. per bag. I have no idea if that is cheap or not but I just don't think it is that difficult a job and they must make atleast $100 a day just in tips so it's not a bad job. Now the mousekeeper I think they have a pain in the neck job. Some people are very messy and I would hate to have to clean a bathroom for anyone other than my own family and I don't much like it then. I might like it better if I got a tip. I am pretty neat but I always leave $1 per person and sometimes more if we need something extra like towels or the daybed made up. I am not a big tipper but I do make sure I factor that in as part of the trip. I think it is about $100 by the time we get home easily and that doesn't include the restaurants.

[WDW2002]

Originally posted by ducklite
They are not paid a living wage, and rely on tips to survive.
In regards to housekeeping and other "non tipped" positions, it was their choice to take or not take the job. What they are or are not paid is not my fault, so why should I suppliment their income?? IMO, this is the not a good reason to tip.

[indigo]

In regards to housekeeping and other "non tipped" positions, it was their choice to take or not take the job. What they are or are not paid is not my fault, so why should I suppliment their income??

A. How do you know the position is 'non-tipped'? (by which I mean the IRS does not require them to declare their tip income; such as it does for food servers, bellman, etc). Does this vary by establishment?

B. You're tipping for service received (or desired) above the normal standard. So if you get extra towels when you ask for them, or an early room cleanup time, or a late checkout (which throws off the cleaning schedule), or any number of things... then you should tip housekeeping. A similar standard applies for jobs that are 'non-tipped' jobs.

C. In my personal opinion, all service industry jobs, for people over 18, should be forced to pay a living wage (around $9.50 -$12.00 an hour depending on local cost of living) and paid health benefits. These are the types of jobs that people want to have. The fact that they aren't paid that is due to supply and demand for workers. If we were near zero unemployment, I think you'd see people earning what they deserve. Until then Tips for good service help service industry positions make their bills each month.

[disneyispi]

I find all the information on tipping very helpful!!! But my question is, should you tip every day or can you wait until the end of your stay to tip, say for housekeeping?

[dianna112198]

We just came back from a trip to the Polynesian and let me tell you, it feels like I spent half of my spending money on tips. I really don't mind this because I am a very generous person anyway. But this was my first vacation withouth my family so before I went I made sure I knew all of the people I was supposed to tip...the maid...the bellman..waiters...bartenders...shuttle people...valet parking people...etc.But there was one posistion that I had NO idea I was supposed to tip...the people that watch your bags if you check in early. Ok. I can see tipping him when I come to pick it up or when they drop it off to my room but, noooo, he made it a point to stand there until I tipped him. Then I had to tip another guy when I picked it up (he didnt even unload my luggage, he just pushed the luggage cart to the curb) When I came home I asked my parents if you are supposed to tip these people and they looked at me like, duh, of course you are. So now I know for next time, just tip EVERYONE, even if they touch your bag for 2 seconds. It's crazy but I guess that's how it's done ;) lol now I can't get my pictures developed because I spent all of my money on tips! :p

[WDW2002]

Originally posted by indigo

How do you know the position is 'non-tipped'? (by which I mean the IRS does not require them to declare their tip income; such as it does for food servers, bellman, etc). Does this vary by establishment?
The IRS required ALL tips to be reported (if in excess of $20 in any one month) and taxes to be paid on said tips. But (from what I can tell) it is only the restaurant industry that "allocated tips" are required. Therefore, if they recieve a tip they need to report it to their employeer (but I doubt they do since it is not a tipped position) and report to IRS.

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by disneyispi
I find all the information on tipping very helpful!!! But my question is, should you tip every day or can you wait until the end of your stay to tip, say for housekeeping?

I make Mousekeeping envelopes (http://www.buffnet.net/~heidi/maid_envelopes/classic.html) for each day BEFORE leaving for the trip. I put in a tip for each day and then leave it on the sink or on the pillows on the bed.

Your Mousekeeper probably will change, maybe from day to day, so the person on the day you check out may not be the one who maintained your room on previous days.

[Twinsplus1]

Originally posted by WDW2002

The IRS required ALL tips to be reported (if in excess of $20 in any one month) and taxes to be paid on said tips. But (from what I can tell) it is only the restaurant industry that "allocated tips" are required. Therefore, if they recieve a tip they need to report it to their employeer (but I doubt they do since it is not a tipped position) and report to IRS.

I can't speak for all restaurants but I was a trainer at a national chain steakhouse and can tell you that 8% of each servers nightly sale is reported as earned income (tip). So for example, let's use 100.00 as a reference. You have a 100.00 check and on that 100.00 you have to give 3 dollars, or 3% back to the restaurant for them to divide up between the bussers, hostess, bar and silver rollers. Then they also tax you on 8 dollars earned income (tip) plus your 2.35 an hour wage. Does not sound like much but considering you COULD have gotten a poor tipper who only gave you 10 dollars on 100, in effect, you've had a very bad night! :D

[Disneydenise]

In all my trips to DW I have noticed that you have the same mousekeepper 3 out of 4 days but I think it best to tip each day. When we first went to the world I only left a large tip at the end of my stay but as I got more Disney savy I tipped each day and yes I do get very good service that way. I make sure I have the right dollar breakdown before I leave home.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by milmore104
I know people say carry your own bags but it's hard when you are carrying a one year old! I just don't understand who and when you should tip someone. I mean do I really have to tip everyone that touches our bags? Or like at the hotel do they split tips at the days end?

The airport porters do not pool tips. If you don't want to tip them, then figure out another way of managing your bags. If you can't handle your bags and child, and accept assistance, you should expect to compensate the person who helps you.

Anne

[WDW2002]

Originally posted by Twinsplus1

I can't speak for all restaurants but I was a trainer at a national chain steakhouse and can tell you that 8% of each servers nightly sale is reported as earned income (tip).
That would be the "allocated tips" I mentioned in my post. I have found NO information that states a simular practice in other industries (such as housekeepers, bellmen, taxi drivers etc).

[adams66]

I too agree that it is a good idea to tip the maid every day, especially over a weekend when I think they seem to change maids. However, I have actually had times when I had mousekeeping envelopes printed and stuffed, left them on the pillow or night stand (I can't remember where) and the maid did not take the tip. Sometimes, I leave it on the vanity area instead so it stands out more. But I figure if she's making the bed, she'd have to move the envelope. She did move it, but just over to the dresser and left it. Anyone else ever have this happen??:confused: Where do you usually leave your mousekeeping tip? Oh, I also think you get better attention from the maid if you tip everyday.

As for the luggage, I usually try to travel light and handle my own luggage. That way I can avoid the confusion over tipping the bellman. It's not that I'm cheap, but sometimes it's a little overwhelming with the number of people that actually "touch" your bags.

[las3888]

Milmore104,

I agree with you on your sentiments. While some have expressed on this board that tipping is always optional, there is always a certain obligation to tip regardless. I don't have anything against the bell-person, or valet, but like others have said, you have to tip twice just to get your bags to the room. And they do try to swoop your bags up on a cart before you really have a chance to say no thanks...so then you're left having to tip maybe $5 or $10 to get your bags to your room. I have nothing against the work that was just done on my behalf, so I am not trying to send a message to them if I don't tip, I just feel frustrated that it is the usual and customary thing to do. Like you said, we are paying enough for our vacation. It would be nice if tips were built into the prices somewhat.

I don't consider myself a cheap person by any means. I just don't feel that carrying my bags on a cart is something that I need to 'judge' how well it was done, and tip accordingly. It's something that is a part of somebody's job description, and they should be paid accordingly.

We generally try to avoid the whole bags-to-your-room part and try to do it ourselves, but we have got caught in it once or twice by an over-aggressive bell-boy. We have at times still said 'no thanks' but there are just some times when you feel it will draw negative attention to you, so you just have to go with it.

Just my 2 cents!

[WDW2002]

Originally posted by las3888
It's something that is a part of somebody's job description, and they should be paid accordingly.
I agree 100% with this. All workers should be paid according to what the expectations of their job. Leaving tipping to be done only as a thank you, not as a costomary requirement of the pattron. IMO, tipping should only be done when the worker goes above and beyond what is in their "job description."

[Wendy_Darling_2001]

I have a question regarding turn down service tipping. We will be at Polynesian Concierge in a few weeks and it will be our first experience with concierge and turn-down. I am under the impression that the people who do turn down are not your regular housekeeper. So, I'd imagine you tip both but say you are at the park all day, how would leave a tip for the housekeeper and a tip for turn down so that each gets theirs? I too have left $ in a "mousekeeper" envelope only to have it moved and not taken.

Also, if you call to request an iron or extra towels, should uyou tip the person bringing it to your room and if so how much?

Thanks,
Wendy

[robinb]

Originally posted by Wendy_Darling_2001
Also, if you call to request an iron or extra towels, should uyou tip the person bringing it to your room and if so how much?


Sorry ... I don't know about tipping the turn-down service :(. If I ask for anything to be delivered to my room, towels, iron, coffee maker, etc I always tip the delivery person $2. On the same vein, I do not tip extra for room service as gratuity is already included in the charge to my room.

[milmore104]

To las3888,
You said exactly what I was trying to get across. I know people say you don't have to tip but that you more or less feel obligated to tip everyone. It's like when you have your pizza delivered I feel I have to tip them well for fear if I don't who knows wha tthey will do to my food the next time it comes!
I don't want people to think I'm a cheapskate because by all means I'm not. I do tip well very well actually it's just that i feel you really need to go that extra mile. But then I run into the problem w/ doesn't anybody do things just to be nice anymore?
I just don't understand why I should have to tip bellman for carrying my bags when that is their job. That is why their there and that's what they get paid for!

[Lewisc]

why I should have to tip bellman for carrying my bags when that is their job. That is why their there and that's what they get paid for!
and the form of their payment is tips.

You may not like it, it may not be fair but TIPS ARE THE METHOD OF PAYMENT FOR tipped positions.

[las3888]

I'm glad you think alike, milmore104. Some things should be rewarded, but I don't necessarily feel that tipping is necessary for getting your bags to your room or even for housekeeping to clean your room. I do hope they are compensated fairly for what they do, because I don't think it is an easy task.

I just feel sorry for those who pull up to the Disney resort with a car full of kids and luggage. We've all seen them before...they have tons and tons of bags and gear. They HAVE to use the services of a bellman, and with all of their gear, at the customary $1/bag or whatever the rule of thumb is, it must cost them a fortune just to get it to their room. Not really fair to them, seeing as they just don't really have much of a choice.

People should really just be doing their jobs, like you said, and getting paid for that. After all, I am in a service role at a large company, and I don't get tips for doing my job. People should want to be helpful and they should understand they are in a service role, and being friendly and helpful should be a prerequisite for the job, not something we need to ensure that we, the customer, receive by tipping.

[LKS]

At WDW in the Contemporary and AKL, we took envelopes, tip money, etc... but never felt the housekeeping service warranted a tip. We are talking a barely adequate job - not that I cared, but nothing that I would tip for. Now on a recent trip to Myrtle Beach, we had a young man from Slovakia cleaning our room who was so, so nice, asking us about our stay, giving extra towels etc... that we gave him $20 for 5 people for 3 nights. And one of those days he didn't even clean the room, just gave the towels because we were in there. Still, we were quite impressed with him. So for us, bellmen and waitstaff always get tipped, but housekeeping, since it is officially a non-tipped position, only gets a tip if they impress us.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by las3888
I just feel sorry for those who pull up to the Disney resort with a car full of kids and luggage. We've all seen them before...they have tons and tons of bags and gear. They HAVE to use the services of a bellman, and with all of their gear, at the customary $1/bag or whatever the rule of thumb is, it must cost them a fortune just to get it to their room. Not really fair to them, seeing as they just don't really have much of a choice.


They have plenty of choice. First, if they have THAT MUCH, then they are probably overpacking. They can have one person wait with the bags while the other checks in and then take shifts hauling it all to the room. If they use a bellhop to cart their stuff, they need to tip, and tip appropriately. Period. If they can't afford to or don't want to tip the bell man, they need to figure out a way to move their own stuff.

Anne

[Lewisc]

Well said Anne--
las3888--If you think people should get paid for doing their jobs than YOU HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TIP since tipping IS THE WAY THEY GET PAID. There is no other way of looking at it. People who knowingly fail to to tip a "tipped position" ARE SAYING SOMEONE SHOULD WORK FOR THEM FOR FREE. It's really that simple.

[cinmell]

I asked this on the transortation board but maybe I should ask it here instead (sorry).

I've been reading alot about tipping, who you tip and how much. The only position I haven't read about is a town car driver. Just wondering when you use a town car service from MCO to WDW, how do you handle the tip? Do you tip half at pick up and the other half when you are dropped back off at the airport or just one way? What percent do you recommend? 10-20%?

[milmore104]

I didn't realize that this is how they get paid? I thought that they got a minimum salary. And that tips were like a bonus! Well then I see why I should tip the bellman. thank you for telling me this cinmell. Is there anywhere I can find out who else has this kind of salary?

[ducklite]

Originally posted by cinmell
I asked this on the transortation board but maybe I should ask it here instead (sorry).

I've been reading alot about tipping, who you tip and how much. The only position I haven't read about is a town car driver. Just wondering when you use a town car service from MCO to WDW, how do you handle the tip? Do you tip half at pick up and the other half when you are dropped back off at the airport or just one way? What percent do you recommend? 10-20%?

I tip $10 each way (and extra if I have lots of luggage or make a longer grocery stop). I do it at the end of each leg, as the driver you have on the way to WDW might not be the same one you have on the way back to the airport.

Anne

[polyfan]

millmore104- there was aprevious thread about tipping bellman and baggage handlers. they do get a salary also. I asked the person to explain how they get paid and he gave me a salary range that they make which was between $36,000-$$44,000- this includes tips. After his reply, I decided I wasn't going to worry so much about all these tips. Heck, teachers, policemen, firefighters don't even make that much. JMO

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by Lewisc
If you think people should get paid for doing their jobs than YOU HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TIP since tipping IS THE WAY THEY GET PAID. There is no other way of looking at it. People who knowingly fail to to tip a "tipped position" ARE SAYING SOMEONE SHOULD WORK FOR THEM FOR FREE. It's really that simple.

Just curious ... when did giving someone a gratuity (tip) become mandatory? These people are paid wages to perform a service. The gratuity is, at least for me, a way of saying thank you for exceptional service. Disney is their employer, I am the GUEST. They are there to serve me, but I am not there to pay them.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by loriencke
they get paid and he gave me a salary range that they make which was between $36,000-$$44,000- this includes tips. After his reply, I decided I wasn't going to worry so much about all these tips. Heck, teachers, policemen, firefighters don't even make that much. JMO

Huh? Starting pay for a first year teacher around here is $45k, more if they have a masters or special certifications! Police start at about $48k, our fire fighters are volunteers, so it doesn't apply. I think you've got an unrealistic feel of what people make.

Anne

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954


Just curious ... when did giving someone a gratuity (tip) become mandatory? These people are paid wages to perform a service. The gratuity is, at least for me, a way of saying thank you for exceptional service. Disney is their employer, I am the GUEST. They are there to serve me, but I am not there to pay them.

If you don't want to tip them, don't use their services.

Anne

[Lewisc]

Cheap people are looking to justify their actions. The 36,000 figure was for a bellhop in Vegas not Disney. The fact is people in tipped positions are paid less than normal wages (frequently less than minimum wage).
loriencke You're expecting the person carrying your bags to carry them for free. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. YOUR TIP IS HOW HE GETS PAID FOR CARRYING YOUR BAGS. The fact that other people tip enough so the person doesn't starve is irrelevant.
One of the brochures Disney gives you in check in lists the tipped positions. Incidently housekeeping IS NOT ONE of them, cetainly tip for superior service but in the case of housekeeping tips are an "extra".

[polyfan]

ducklite- that might be where you live, but it is not here- I am a teacher- special educattion with a masters degree, and also get paid a a child study coordinator and my contract for this year will be $39,995. Policemen here start at $28,000, beginning teacher is $30,000. These are actual facts.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by loriencke
ducklite- that might be where you live, but it is not here- I am a teacher- special educattion with a masters degree, and also get paid a a child study coordinator and my contract for this year will be $39,995. Policemen here start at $28,000, beginning teacher is $30,000. These are actual facts.

I'd move. Receptionists with a high school diploma and two years work experience make over $30k around here.

But that's here nor there. If you have the money to take a vacation, and accept a "service" from someone, you should tip them accordingly. If you do not want the service, or do not want to tip for it, simply decline it. Housekeeping is not a service. you can't really clean your own room. But baggage handling is a service, as is being served at a full service restaurant, valet parking your car, etc.

Anne

[milmore104]

To ducklite,
I think your not taking into consideration that where you live people might start out at a good salary but here where I live Teachers start at $18,000 & Police officers start at $21,000.
And I thought that the government had a MIN. wage that employers had to pay there employees. Isn't that why it's a MIN. wage?
I am not a cheap person and I am not making excuses for why I don't want to tip someone! I 'm just trying to say why should I feel obligated to tip someone for there job. Exspecially if they don't go out of there way for me!

[beattyfamily]

Here's my opinion/take on it...

We're tippers. We tip all the discussed positions, even housekeeping...always have.

It's just customary. At all non-WDW hotels I've stayed at there are even envelopes provided for the housekeeping person. I never thought that you wouldn't tip them (except for poor service) until I started reading these wdw mousekeeping tipping threads.

BUT, I'm like a lot of you and get frustrated (even though I do plan ahead for most of this) with the tipping of each person that touches our bags! There's the person at the airport that checks the bags. Then we usually get our own bags and load them in the car. Then there's the person that unloads them at WDW but sometimes we avoid them and bring them ourselves to where they store them. Then we don't tip until they are delivered to our room. But at some resorts (especially Universal) they can get pushy and there's a person who unloads and then the bellhop. That's the only thing that can sometimes bug me. The person that unloads it should either be the valet parker or the bellhop and no in between person.

There that's all I have to say!

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954


Just curious ... when did giving someone a gratuity (tip) become mandatory? These people are paid wages to perform a service. The gratuity is, at least for me, a way of saying thank you for exceptional service. Disney is their employer, I am the GUEST. They are there to serve me, but I am not there to pay them.
NO TIPS ARE WHAT PAYS THEM TO FURNISH THE SERVICE. It's been that way forever. The wages are below scale (and in some cases below minimum wage) Disney tells you in the resort brochure which positions are tipped positions so you know who you are responsible for paying.
I'm curious, did you not know that the primary source of income is tips or are you just trying to rationalize saving a few dollars at the expensive of someone else?

[MHopkins2]

I am not a cheap person and I am not making excuses for why I don't want to tip someone! I 'm just trying to say why should I feel obligated to tip someone for there job. Exspecially if they don't go out of there way for me! Certainly, the *amount* of your tip should increase or decrease based on the level of service you receive. However, the basic point is this: you "should feel obligated to tip someone for doing their job" because that is how they are paid. The company they work for does not supply the majority of their income, their customers do. Whether or not you feel this is fair - to you or the employee - is sadly irrelevant. If you use their service, you have to pay them for it, in the form of a tip.

This principle, of course, applies only to officially "tipped" positions - which does include bellhops in addition to waitstaff. Mousekeepers are not a tipped position, so by all means, if you don't feel the service has been "above and beyond," and you don't choose to tip, don't. But for the tipped positions, a tip is not optional. Period. You use the service, you give a tip. (With an exception for poor service, of course.)

I'm not trying to come off like a snothead, but seriously, I don't understand why this is such a thorny issue.

[polyfan]

Mousekeeping aside- just baggge handlers, bellmen, valet, etc.--
I don't think anyone is trying to justify not tipping. Iwould like to think that everyone does tip. The question comes about when so many people are touching your bags, as to who really should be getting the tip, and when. It will always be a matter of personal opinion, but many people come to these boards for suggestions as to how others handle it. It really does get annoying when someone is standing there with their hand out, and they really haven't done anything, but move a bag 2 feet away from you. We had a guy at the airport as I was putting the bag up on the stand, take it out of my hand and set it down. My husband was parking the truck, and just walked up, the guy started talking tohim about being a tipped position. so, he gave him a tip. It was nothing , I had the bag in hand, and didn't need him to take it way. I thought he was just being nice and helping a women, he was just looking to make a buck. If I would have realized that I would have said no thankyou, I can do it. It was a matter of lifting it 2 feet. Sorry so long. My point, it's not about whether to tip, but where does it start and end.

[milmore104]

I htink this is a big "thorny" issue because most people including myself had no idea that tipping was how bellboys got paid! I was under the impression that they recieved a salary and tips. I do use the service and I do tip everyone who touches our bags $10 each. I normally have three bags that I let them carry. My DH and I carry the rest which is usually 4 bags and our DD and her stroller! My point is that I feel it is rude for the bellboy to have his hand out and waiting for a tip as he throws down my last bag! I don't think I should feel obligated to tip someone. But now that I've found out that this is how they get paid I will not feel obligated to tip them but to use their service and pay them for it!
I have been to WDW many times and never got a list of "tipped" positions!

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by loriencke
Mousekeeping aside- just baggge handlers, bellmen, valet, etc.--
I We had a guy at the airport as I was putting the bag up on the stand, take it out of my hand and set it down.
Curbside checkin is done by skycaps. That is a tipped position regardless if you put the bag on the stand or if they help you. The alternative is to take your bag inside to the counter and wait on line.
I agree it's confusing at the hotel when your'e not sure which employees pool their tips.

milmore104--I've always seen the list of tip guidelines in the resort newsletter/newspaper you get when you checkin.

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by Lewisc

NO TIPS ARE WHAT PAYS THEM TO FURNISH THE SERVICE. It's been that way forever. The wages are below scale (and in some cases below minimum wage) Disney tells you in the resort brochure which positions are tipped positions so you know who you are responsible for paying.
I'm curious, did you not know that the primary source of income is tips or are you just trying to rationalize saving a few dollars at the expensive of someone else?

Huh?? I think you are reading more into what I said than is there.
Maybe Merriam-Webster can help out:

Main Entry: gra·tu·ity
Pronunciation: gr&-'tü-&-tE, -'tyü-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ities
Date: 1540
: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service; especially : TIP

Notice the word voluntarily. A gratuity is not an obligation and I have a hard time understanding when it became such. Using the terms "usual and customary" leave people with the implication that a gratuity is required, when it is never required.

To clarify for you and Anne, I do not use bellmen; I am perfectly capable of carrying my own luggage. IF I chose to use them, I would probably tip $1 per bag as a GRATUITY, not as WAGES. Again, their employer is Disney, not me.

I usually tip restaurant servers 15 - 20% depending on quality of service, but again I do not feel obligated to leave 1 dime if the service was poor, slow, etc.

I usually tip valets; I always tip Mousekeepers; I often throw tips in the jar at Starbucks (but for what reason I don't know!).

My one and only point is that gratuities are voluntary. I couldn't care less how much or how little a valet, bellman, waitperson, bartender, etc. makes. My trips to Disney are not designed to supplement their income. If they are not satisfied with their salary, they should look for work elsewhere.

[MHopkins2]

I htink this is a big "thorny" issue because most people including myself had no idea that tipping was how bellboys got paid! Milmore, I wasn't referring to folks like you who just didn't know that bellhops are a tipped position, and hence didn't tip them unless there was "above and beyond" service. (Which I realize isn't your case, anyway, as you tipped even when you didn't know that's how they were paid.)

I'm talking more to those who *know* that people work for tips, and yet still somehow feel it's optional, or only appropriate when something "special" is done. I'm mystified by that theory, to be honest! :)

[Disneydenise]

Ducklite do you really want everyone moving to North Jersey? I think it is quite densely populated as it is now. Teachers starting salary today is a range from $27,000-$32,000. I am central Jersey. I never got a tip from a student. I do get some lovely gifts from parents and I think that it is wonderful to be thought of so generously. Teaching is a service and a vocation. It is stressful and rewarding. Bellman is a non- stress job. Big dilema, can I be pleasant and speak politely. Explain to me how this equates to $3.00 a bag. Disney is a family resort many families are stuggling to be there for 5 days so $1 a bag seems fine in my opinion. If they aren't personable then tough for them because that is how you earn tips on your personality.

[dandave]

$36,000-$$44,000!!! Geez, I'm gonna be a bellman (errr, bellwoman), when I grow up! My DH has a Master's in mathematics. He just left a teaching career with a university in GA. He was an Assistant Professor, with over nine years of experience. After nine years his base salary was only $36,500.... That's why we moved to Florida. The DOD pays much better! ;)

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Disneydenise
Ducklite do you really want everyone moving to North Jersey? I think it is quite densely populated as it is now. Teachers starting salary today is a range from $27,000-$32,000. I am central Jersey. I never got a tip from a student. I do get some lovely gifts from parents and I think that it is wonderful to be thought of so generously. Teaching is a service and a vocation. It is stressful and rewarding. Bellman is a non- stress job. Big dilema, can I be pleasant and speak politely. Explain to me how this equates to $3.00 a bag. Disney is a family resort many families are stuggling to be there for 5 days so $1 a bag seems fine in my opinion. If they aren't personable then tough for them because that is how you earn tips on your personality.

First off, I am in Central NJ as well. And no, I don't want everyone moving here. That's not the point. The point is that just because people only make "X" in "this area", doesn't meant that they can live on the same "X" in another area. You couldn't live on $40,000 and support a family in my area. Regardless of what many might think, Central Florida is NOT an inexpensive area to live in.

I also never said to tip $3 a bag (that was someone else). I think that's more than generous, unless it is the only bag, it's a steamer trunk, and it weighs 95 lbs. Then more than $3 would be aprropriate :) I'm a buck a bag person, less if they do a rotten job, more if they perform some special service on top of handling the bags.

I just feel that if you utilize the service of someone who rely's on tips as the substantial part oftheir income, you are obligated to tip them. If you don't want to tip them, or can't afford to tip them, you shouldn't use them. No one MAKES you use them. You can politely decline assistance.

Anne

[Lewisc]

Steve:
Originally posted by Eeyore1954

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service; especially : TIP

Notice the word voluntarily. A gratuity is not an obligation and I have a hard time understanding when it became such. Using the terms "usual and customary" leave people with the implication that a gratuity is required, when it is never required.

My one and only point is that gratuities are voluntary. I .
Steve--an alternate definintion also from Merriam-Webster
gift or a sum of money tendered for a service performed or anticipated no mentioin of voluntary. Tipping a non-tipped position is voluntary, tipping a tipped positions is really compensation for services rendered. I agree a tip is voluntary in the sense that you won't go to jail if you fail to tip. My point is THE TIP IS THE FORM OF COMPENSATION for tipped positions and it is wrong to expect someone to work for free.In many cases the valet doesn't even work for the hotel or restaurant.
Your actions really support my position. I just get annoyed at people who try to justify doing the wrong thing.

[las3888]

Well put, eeyore1954!

The point I was trying to make is that most of us know that having to tip a bell-boy is 'the way of the world', I just don't really feel it should be that way. I think they should be paid a fair salary for what they do, and if they do something extra-helpful for somebody, then perhaps a tip should be given. Same as front desk personnel. Their job is to check you in. You have no alternative. You are using their services, and as we have all read on the boards and experienced ourselves, there are those who do an outstanding job, and others who leave a lot to be desired at the front desk.

For those who might think 'cheap people are looking for a way to justify their actions', quite contrary. My DH and I are probably some of the best tippers we know. We are not cheap by any means, and I actually feel that most people who continually stay at Disney are not generally cheap people, seeing as there are many other inexpensive alternatives. There is just a certain frustration of spending money on something that is in my opinion is not worthy (i.e., moving a bag from trunk to baggage cart). The problem is, there isn't really an alternative. For us do-it-yourselfers, do they provide a luggage cart for us to transport our bags to our rooms by ourselves? It is unheard of. Unless you want to make several unrealistic trips, as ducklite has suggested, which would cause probably a lot of frustration and embarrassment, especially because in many places, bellmen will not let you park your car in front of the lobby for very long, people really do not have an alternative.

Also, ducklite, please remember those that have small children that have to pack diapers, bottles, formula, etc. not to mention clothing and personal items. While some people surely overpack, not everybody with a lot of gear is necessarily guilty of that. I am not defending myself, because it is only DH and myself with zero kids, and we pack to the point where we can manage our bags completely on our own.

As far as the salary issue goes, I have a dear friend who works the front desk at the GF. His annual salary full-time is close to $16,000. He is not allowed to accept tips. I feel his services are more valuable than a bellperson's. If somebody is making more than that as a bellperson, I don't feel I need to supplement their income a whole lot.

[Lewisc]

If you pack so much stuff that you need help you should be prepared to pay the person who helps you and not expect them to work for free. The fact that you don't have a legal obligation to pay doesn't change the point--Should they be working for free?
Maybe the luggage people should be a salaried position or maybe there should be definite charge but that's not the way it is.
Check the operative definition of tip:
a sum of money tendered for a service performed or anticipated
Most of the people in this thread seem to either tip or hadn't realized that the tip was the major source of compensation. I've seen others who are just cheap.

For the value and moderate resorts there is no reason you can't check in, move your car and move your own luggage. Generally people staying in a deluxe (with more than a bag or two) WANT HELP with their luggage but you can decline or even self-park your car before you check in.

[las3888]

I wouldn't really consider not tipping for services rendered to bellhops, but why should I pay for their services to move my bags, when it is their job? Why do I not tip for the services of the front desk people, the guard who checks my parking pass as I go through the gate, the people who work in the shops, the people taking my order at the counter service, the person I rent a bicycle from, or the lifeguard? These people are all performing their duties, plus not getting paid a whole heck of a lot. I just don't think that using a bellhop should be differentiated from these other service jobs.

Trust me when I tell you that my friend who works front desk at GF tells me of the bellhops that he knows get paid a GREAT deal more money than he. The job is a much sought after job for that reason, and it is very difficult to get. I, in the end, just don't feel the position is justified to get paid all that much money. It takes very little to no skill at all. Sorry...

Here is yet another definition of gratuity from Webster's NewWorld Dictionary:

a gift of money, etc. etc., esp. for a service

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by las3888
I wouldn't really consider not tipping for services rendered to bellhops, but why should I pay for their services to move my bags, when it is their job? Why do I not tip for the services of the front desk people, the guard who checks my parking pass as I go through the gate, the people who work in the shops, the people taking my order at the counter service, the person I rent a bicycle from, or the lifeguard? These people are all performing their duties, plus not getting paid a whole heck of a lot. I just don't think that using a bellhop should be differentiated from these other service jobs.


All good questions. A waitress gets tipped but a flight attendant who serves you lunch doesn't. The curbside skycap who checks your luggage gets tipped but wait in line inside and the airline employee who checks your luggage doesn't. I agree alot of this isn't consistent (or even fair). I agree with your conclusion, you really "have" to tip people who do work for you if tipping is a major (or only) source of their compensation.

[WDW2002]

Originally posted by milmore104
most people including myself had no idea that tipping was how bellboys got paid!

Disney provides a salary to all employees. Tips are supplemental to this salary. Just like servers and other tiped positions. This does not mean that the bellmen and other tiped positions to do rely on tips to live on. But if a person does not tip, for whatever reason, the bellmen is still getting paid to handle the bags.

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by WDW2002
[B]

Tips are supplemental to this salary. Just like servers and other tiped positions. /B]

Not sure about bellman but servers are generally PAID BELOW THE MINIMUM WAGE and are required to pay taxes on projected tips. If you don't TIP a waiter he is literally paying (the IRS) for serving you. For most tipped positions tips don't supplement the salary, they are the major source of compensation. You really have it backwards, the salary supplements the tips. Disney pays the bellman to have him available for you to use. If you don't tip you're expecting him to work for free. If you read the resort guide/newspaper Disney give tipping guidelines so you know which employees are compensated via guest tips and which employees are compensated by salary.
Sorry this arguement about tips being supplemental income isn't valid, just an excuse for people looking for a reason to stiff a worker.

[WDW2002]

Originally posted by Lewisc

Not sure about bellman but servers are generally PAID BELOW THE MINIMUM WAGE and are required to pay taxes on projected tips.
I am an accountant for a restaurant. So I know ALL about tips etc. In California, we are required to pay AT LEAST minimum wage which is $6.75/hr. Tips of 8% of sales are considered "allocated tips." Most of our servers/bartenders make at least twice that but report NOTHING above 8%. So about 2/3 of their income is NOT TAXED at all, wish my job was like that.

From what I can tell, it is only the restaurant industry that require allocated tips, and only restaurants that are allowed to pay sub-minimum wage.

Lets face is some jobs are minimum wage jobs. The persons handing me the burger at counter service likely doesn't make much more then the bellman or the housekeeper.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by WDW2002

I am an accountant for a restaurant. So I know ALL about tips etc. In California, we are required to pay AT LEAST minimum wage which is $6.75/hr.

CA and OR are two of the very few states with living wage laws. FL is NOT one of them. Neither is NY or NJ. In these states tipped positions are paid about $2.35 per hour.

And FYI, here in NJ, fast food workers start at $6.50 per hour for young kids with limited availability and go up to over $11/hour for day crew, no management or leadership duties involved. My kid makes $8.50/hour at his summer job, very unskilled labor, for example one part of his job is plugging in lights, turning them on, then off, and then if they don't work handing them to another guy to fix.

This is all beyond the point.

Let's face reality, service positions expect to make the majority of their income in tips. Otherwise most of these people would be doing something else. Yes, WDW could hire people who are happy with minimum wage at the end of the day. But they will generally NOT be the enjoyable, service oriented people that are there now. Look around at the "service" you get in your local mall by the people who make slightly over minumum wage. Is that what you want at WDW?

One of the resorts we vacation at fairly regularly attaches a per guest daily gratuity which covers housekeeping, bell services, concierge, etc. You are still expected to tip for food service and spa service, as not all guests use these services. Their literature is very specific about this. The problem with this is that many guests will balk at paying a "resort fee" or what ever they call it. If they raise the pay of those in these positions at WDW, they will have to raise room rates. Then guests will complain about this, saying that they don't want to pay extra as they do'nt use these services.

No matter what you do, you can't please everyone.

Anne

[las3888]

Yes, WDW could hire people who are happy with minimum wage at the end of the day. But they will generally NOT be the enjoyable, service oriented people that are there now. Look around at the "service" you get in your local mall by the people who make slightly over minumum wage. Is that what you want at WDW?

I am sorry, but this is EXACTLY what WDW people are paid. I know - one of my best friends works there!!!

Sorry this arguement about tips being supplemental income isn't valid, just an excuse for people looking for a reason to stiff a worker.

Not exactly a fair statement - all I am saying is that I don't think it fair to have to tip because I think bellhops are not always optional. I also think most bellhops make a very decent wage especially considering what they do, and the skill involved, and don't think it fair to other service workers (i.e. front desk clerks etc.). I am not looking to 'stiff' a worker...don't understand why I need to pay somebody $5 to move my bags from my trunk to a luggage cart. Again, I am not looking to 'stiff a worker' I am and always will pay tips when it seems the customary thing to do.

[Disneydenise]

I am not looking to 'stiff' a worker...don't understand why I need to pay somebody $5 to move my bags from my trunk to a luggage cart That is the discussion point to me. I do tip but I don't get the tip to this bellperson. I resent that I have to tip a person for literally getting a luggage cart. and we do take our stuff out and put it on there. I think that the bellperson who does the interacting wth me is the person who deserves the tip.

[SalandJeff]

I too am sometimes confused about how much to tip and usually always left a tip at the end of our trip for mousekeeping. But after reading this, I'll leave it daily - didn't think about the fact that the person would change each day.

We usually rent a car & self park so don't have to tip for bags, but we do this to save time. Just park, wheel in the bags and check in. If our room is not ready and we have to store them, we tip when the bellman brings them.

The way I look at it, we're all going to WDW and spending a fair amount of money. If we can afford to do this, we can afford to give up a few bucks for tips to people who work hard for low wages. I even tip at home at full serve gas stations when they pump my gas! Is a buck going to kill me - no - and people are always very appreciative.

Just my 2 cents.

[gepetto]

Originally posted by Disneydenise
That is the discussion point to me. I do tip but I don't get the tip to this bellperson. I resent that I have to tip a person for literally getting a luggage cart. and we do take our stuff out and put it on there. I think that the bellperson who does the interacting wth me is the person who deserves the tip.

I think if you are loading your own cart, you should only tip the man that brings your luggage to your room and unloads it. :D I'm not opposed to tipping....just not 3 different people to get my luggage from the car to the room.

[psutim]

I just recently posted under the heading "hotel service" discussing tipping guidelines. I just want to insert my 2 cents here...I am in a tipped position at an "On Property" resort, working as a bellman. To those who say, taking up bags is what we get paid to do, here is a heads up...We start at 2.25 an hour.

I personally never understood the doorman/bellmen as seperate jobs, I just live with it. AS far as tipping, give the doorman half of what you'd give a bellman. Doorman handle everyone that pulls up to their hotel, bellmen only handle those who need luggage assistance...Both positions get paid very little hourly.

As far as staying at a full service hotel, I completely understand when people wheel their luggage in...But when they do utilize hotel services, gratuties are appreciated!! IMHO a good bellmen can really start off your vacation right!! If and when you get a chance have them walk you to your room, pick their brain, and make them earn their tip! I can only speak for myself and co-workers, but we are VERY knowledgable on the area....can get a hold of anything, and know all of the spots (to see and not to see.) You need a restaurant reccomendadtion, we got it!! Concierge is great, but they are pushed to sell certain attractions/restaurants...Bellmen will give it to you straight.

:smooth:

[Disneydenise]

So I am doing it right., I am glad to know this. I think that the persons that are in the know are usually the bellperson who is taking the time to get me to my room and make sure I am happy with it. They always go thru the resort area with a few peices of advice and I do appreciate this service. I was waiting for a bellman to hop in here . Thanks psutim.

[WDW2002]

Originally posted by psutim
I am in a tipped position at an "On Property" resort, working as a bellman.
Yes at an "on property" resort but is it on DISNEY property??

[LunarLady]

Well, since I'm known for not having any tact I'm not too worried about the flames that may follow me here.

After reading this thread, I'm of a mind to snarl at anyone who tries to help me because I'll be feeling that they're looking to me to pay them for doing their job.

Since I typically travel alone, I'm accustomed to handling my own luggage. If a man should help me get it down out of the overhead or take it out of my trunk for me (without my asking him to do so), I have always considered it chivalry and gentlemanly behavior. A sweet smile and pleasant "Thank you!" always seemed to be the accustomed payment for these things.

I never thought that I'd have to pay him to do this because he works at a place that pays less than minimum wage. So much for chivalry.

Are we getting to the point now where if the doorman holds the door open for you because your hands are full, he's expected to be tipped? Are we at the point where such a thing as "guilt tipping" is REQUIRED because these poor people are making so much less money than I am?

I will NEVER tip if my bag is taken from me without my indicating that I want help. In fact, you'll probably hear me screaming all the way to Epcot that someone's stealing my luggage. I DON'T consider it a service if someone takes my luggage out of my trunk at puts it on the curb. Sorry. I can do these things myself.

IMO, to roll a cart to the elevator, then down the hall to your room isn't worth $5 - 10.00. I always thought that WDW and other hotels staffed people to assist their guests because they wanted their guests to enjoy their stay with as little trouble as possible in moving their luggage.

Now that I have been educated in the fact these people aren't there to actually 'help' me but rather extort money from me because they chose a job that pays less than minimum wage, I'll be looking at them with a much more jaded eye from now on.

[polyfan]

LunarLady- no flames from here!

[dandave]

Here, either! ;)
I do tip on the extremely rare occasions that I don't take care of my bags myself (or, better yet, have DH do it), but I found your post very... well very.. charming. That's the only word I could think of, that might possibly suit the feeling it gave me.
Chivalry is not dead, but it does appear less and less often. :(

[psutim]

LunarLady:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now that I have been educated in the fact these people aren't there to actually 'help' me but rather extort money from me because they chose a job that pays less than minimum wage, I'll be looking at them with a much more jaded eye from now on."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally I never look to "extort" money from a guest. I chose a position which I can assist guests through my vast knoweledge of the Walt Disney World Resort area. I do not expect $5 or $10 for pushing a cart down a hallway, if that was the case hotels could train monkeys to perform our duties and pay them in banana's.

I never think of it as expecting $5-$10: I aim to please a guest by explaining the amenities of the hotel, locations of restaurants, recomendations for entertainment, theme park suggestions, etc. If I am than deemed worthy of a couple of bucks, that's wonderful! The reason we are paid below minimum wage is because more often than not, people tip us! But, when asked what tipping guidlines are, I will not hesitate to explain what people generally do!

Now, there are people that will (without asking) pull your bag out of your trunk and load you on a cart. I totally agree with you...expecting to be tipped for a service that was not even requested is not right!! And someone expecting to be tipped for retrieving a cart for you?? That's even worse!

Personally, I work in the "Happiest place on Earth" because I was impacted as a youth by the service and friendliness of the staff!! I am their to help people and create a happy/worry-free atmosphere, and LunarLady...if you approach my hotel to check in, rest assured that I will "extort" no money from you and offer you wishes for a pleasant stay at the "Happiest Place on Earth."

[dandave]

psutim, Bravo!! See, chivalry is *not* dead! May your tips be quadrupled and your attitude be shared by all WDW CMs! :)