Pool "Hopping Mad" UPDATED

[LIDisneyFan]

Just back from my first DVC stay (I own at BWV, but stayed at OKW this trip due to availability). I really liked OKW (more on that in a later post),

Pool hopped yesterday to the BW - there were no restrictions when we arrived. After 3 hours, the recreation manager came over to us (only us) and asked for our resort card. We gladly showed them our card, and our DVC card - we were then asked to leave the pool becuase of the 'crowds'

A few issues:

1) the pool was not crowded - certanily no more than other cash BW visits we have made in the past
2) we were 'spotted' because of our DVC bag - Do not carry your bag when pool hopping - it is apparently detrimental to your visit
3) There were several people at the pool who were Fla. guests of people staying there - I OWN at BW and was asked to leave
4) After spending time at the pool, you should NEVER be asked to leave. I had to take my kids and explain that we had to leave - and by that time it was too late to really do anything else that day
5) I OWN at BWV - I can understand how hopping can be restricted, but NEVER did I think it applied to DVC pools - I pay those higher dues for that pool
6) Finally (here we go again), my guides specifically told me that the ONLY pool which is EVER closed is Stormalong Bay during Easter. We knew that (as the Vacation Magic also stated) and never attempted to go. Pool hopping IS important to us (we use our DVC for the poos and resort, much more so than the theme parks). When we asked about the provisoon about restricted hopping, we were assured that this was specifically to exclude future properties (i.e. AKL) from the program. We were REALLY clear about our questions, and the guides were REALLY clear about their answers.

We spoke to a Sales Manager who has promised me a call back - we'll see (and I'll post) what they say.

I am incensed.

<font size="5"><font color="#FF0000"><font face="Comic Sans MS">
<marquee direction="right" align="middle" behavior="alternate">
Going to the World Tomorrow!!!!!</marquee></font></font>

[This message was edited by LIDisneyFan on 04-13-01 at 09:08 AM.]

[PamOKW]

I agree. This leaves a real bad taste in my mouth, too. We all know that people are sneaking into WDW pools all the time. And, as you said, guests bring "guests" to use the pool as well. To ask a DVC member to leave, especially after you are already at the pool, is wrong. To ask a BW owner to leave....I think I might have lost it.

At first, I thought you meant SAB but when I re-read and saw you were at BW, I think that is a problem. If it was SAB, I was going to say that once you are in it should be okay to stay.

It will be interesting to see what kind of reply you get.

Looking forward to hearing your impressions of OKW.

[KMarie]

LIDisneyfan, did you tell the person who asked you to leave the pool that you were a BW owner? If so, what was the response?

I'm curious because I'm a BW owner, too.

[spiceycat]

I am so sorry this happened to you. I would definitely write the manager of the resort as well as the sales manager and your quide.

[LIDisneyFan]

Yes, I did. His reponse was that 'people staying at the BW are using more of their points to stay there, so we would have to leave.' It made no difference to him at all!!!

He did kindly offer to let us stay another half hour - Ha!

By the way, this was an EXTREMELY embarrassing situation - imagine being asked to leave in front of all those people.

I was about to add on a few hundres points, but I am REALLY rethinking now - not becasue of the 'loss' of pool hopping, but of how I (as an EMPLOYER of this person) was treated.

Also, the Sales Manager tried telling us that there is no pool hopping during Easter or Christmas week, and hasn't been for years - we made him drag out a copy of Vacation Magic to show him exactly what we (the members) were told!!!

[Cindy72]

I also own at the BWV and find this very disturbing. I feel as though you were treated terribly. I'm very interested to hear what their reply will be.

http://home.online.no/~kgroenn/disney/askepott/askepottpic.gif

[CarolMN]

LIDisneyFan - Sorry to hear what happened to you and your family. IMHO, you have every right to be upset. Hope you get a BIG apology from BWV management!

[Joeblack]

That is outrageous!!!!! I would not have left and would have made a big mess right then and there.

Did you ask to speak to a DVC manager? (Not just that "recreation" little bureaucrat?)You should write an email or a letter (Please leave it in writing)to Member Services and demand an explanation or an apology.

Please keep us posted.

[KMarie]

I agree with spiceycat -- write some letters to the manager of the resort, your guide and sales manager and tell them what happened. Enclose a copy of your written evidence, (the VM) too.

[Allan]

LIDisneyFan-that's disturbing, to say the least!!! Being singled out and embarrassed in front of a bunch of people is ridiculous.

[LIDisneyFan]

Actually, the Sales Manager was the DVC manager that we were able to speak to -

I ended up wasting over an hour of my time with him as he tried to 'rectify' the problem. He finally came back with a 'dummy' resort ID card and told us we could return to the pool - but by this time it was almost 4 PM, we were annoyed (is that an understatement or what), tired, our kids were cold (we spent this hour in the DVC offices at the BW, which were air conditioned and we were all still wet).

What I have demanded (and am waiting for) is some type of assurance that this will NEVER happen to me (or any other DVC member) again. I told them that my contract was being signed while the questions about pool hopping were being asked, and that the explanation of the terms in front of the witness (the notary) constitutes part of the agreement.

I am planning, as a DVC member and Disney shareholder, to write to the appropriate people once ( or should I say if) I received my call back.


Believe me, I'm not letting this one die.

Oh, and by the way, I mentioned the DIS to the Sales manager, and told him very clearly I would be posting this. They are VERY much aware of our existance!!! Just thought you would all be interested in that piece of info.

[This message was edited by LIDisneyFan on 04-12-01 at 11:09 AM.]

[Donald]

First, I love the title of your post. VERY clever.

Second, I agree with everyone here. WRITE WRITE WRITE to everyone you can think of and tell them exactly what you posted here. You suffered a terrible injustice and you deserve to be heard and compensated. I have always had a good response when I wrote a letter of complaint. Good luck and keep us posted.

"...yes, the pixie dust is strong" - RumpleMom

[dtheboys]

I understand your situation!!! Keep the fight up for all of us DVC members!!!
You go Girl!!!! :mad:

[baileybrad]

Just curious, did you have the OKW front desk check to see if pool hopping was not being allowed anywhere besides SB on the day of your visit? I would have asked the rm what exactly was the determining factor in what a "crowd" was on this particular day. Is it done on an hourly basis? Whether someone is using more points to stay at BW than you are at OKW has nothing to do with pool hopping. It is a non issue. I would have asked him/her to check everybody IDs and with the non-WDW guests that he/her would have discovered (friends of BW guests aren't legitimate guests, pool hopping DVC resort guests are) then I am sure the pool would have not been crowded anymore. Sounds to me that someone let a little bit of power go to their head. I would complain for months on this one. And I might have had my spouse and kids leave the pool area, but I would have stayed until I was good and ready to leave. And will please no one tell me how the cm was only doing their job. I believe that LIDISNEYFAN was treated very poorly in being singled out in this fashion. And please whats with the "you can stay for 30 more minutes crap". As far as I am concerned this cm's "15 minutes" should be up. And on your first member visit too, this really bites.

[This message was edited by baileybrad on 04-12-01 at 11:50 AM.]

[This message was edited by baileybrad on 04-12-01 at 11:52 AM.]

[Joeblack]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to mail them a copy of this thread so that they know how we feel as DVCers.

[Steve BW99]

IMHO, this is a good thing. I feel the enforcement of the rules will only enhance the experience and preserve the intended atmosphere. This will benefit everyone, and should be applauded. Guest staying at each resort should have priority over those staying elsewhere, regardless of the location of ownership. The pools are designed to handle crowds forecasted from population of the resort itself, not DVC. When there is space available to allow pool hopping without interfering with the intended experience it should be allowed. But if the crowds grow to large, I feel the pool should be limited to resort guests.

I do understand the feeling of mistreatment. The CM also should have asked for an ID upon arrival or at least warned you of the possibility of closing the pool to non-BWV guests. Also, all the guests should be asked for ID, not a chosen few.

During my purchase, my guide explained the benefits of pool hopping, but also explained this was not a guaranteed right. He stated SAB closes at Easter and Christmas to pool hopping but all pools are subjected to closure also.

Hopefully this experience will not sour your feeling about the vast majority of DVC cast members. I have found 99% to be wonderful.

[Credit Man]

The way you were treated is inexcusable. The answer you were given totally unacceptable. And the whole issue is very disturbing.

http://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/family/loveairdvc2.jpg

[baileybrad]

just what is your definition of a "crowd"? In case you missed it in the original post this DVC member was singled out while "friends" of other resort guests were not asked to leave. And you find this selective enforcement to be good news. Sorry but I disagree.

[pentex]

What happened is just wrong. They should be proactive about crowd control and once it hits a certain limit, start checking resort IDs. Once someone is allowed in, they should NOT be asked to leave. That is humiliating. I can't even imagine the embarrassment this scene caused, and the stress it caused afterwards during a vacation.

[LIDisneyFan]

Steve BW99-

Sorry you feel this was a good thing - hope it happens to you next time. First, I'm glad you had a more honest salesperson - mine obviously directly lied when we asked a direct question - we are taking that up with sales management (and eventually the Florida Real Estate Comission is I'm not satsfied).

The pool was not overcrowded -far from it. Other ID's (including the poeple who jumped in our chairs) were not checked. If you want to control capacity, check on the way in - once I'm in, you can't kick me out


Let me put this another way. The Theme Parks can close due to capacity, even if you have a valid ticket. Resort guests are always guaranteed entrance, even if the park is closed for capacity. They don't start going through the park randomly asking non-resort guests to leave!!!

By the way, this is the text of the DVC Member website regarding pool hopping - I don't see anything about any other pools except Yacht and Beach - do you??:

Due to the high occupancy that is expected in early April, DVC Members will not be permitted to use the pool at Disney's Yacht and Beach Club Resort on certain dates. The dates that have been identified so far are April 1-15, 2001, but additional dates may be included. Please check with the resort front desk regarding pool availability prior to going over to the resort.

[Joeblack]

Steve:

I am sure you wouldn't feel the same if you and your family had been asked to leave while you were at the pool. Pool Hopping is not guaranteed but if there is a limitation on a particular day, it should be enforced upon every one and upon arival at the pool. So far..pool hopping IS A RIGHT of DVC owners until it is expressly taken away.

[MaryAnnDVC]

When I had a major problem making a reservation at the Portofino Bay Hotel last year, I posted my experience on the Universal Board, and received many replies, including someone who provided the general manager's e-mail address. I e-mailed him with the link to the thread, and he responded, as well as forwarded the information to to someone who handled the problem much to my satisfaction. :) I think it would be a good idea to forward this thread...

[PamOKW]

I agree that I would like to see crowds at the pool controlled but in this instance the guest has done nothing wrong. They went to the pool as part of the pool hopping of a DVC guest staying on points at a DVC resort. They were not questioned when they went in. When asked for an ID they produced it. They even said they were BWV owners (pay the dues for the pool).

A whole can of worms opens up here as to what causes the overcrowding...repeated mentions of folks who still use the pools whether a guest of any WDW resort at all (I can see plenty of folks walking into BWV as part of the Boardwalk experience). How about those extra 2, 3, 4 folks in a room when the resort is at capacity that people maintain make no difference? Guests of guests using the pool, etc. DVC members should not be the first asked to leave a DVC pool. At another resort I could see them possibly enforcing a time limit at the pool or non-entrance at all during busy times. Even put a time limit on DVC guests if you like, but do it on the way in. Why should we be embarrassed? I'm sure others at the pool assumed these folks were "crashers" which they certainly were not.

I would not expect any monetary/point compensation but I believe you are owed an explanation. It's ridiculous to have you sit in the office for an hour and make up a resort ID. How about pick up the phone and/or walk over to the pool and say "Let these folks in"?

[KNWVIKING]

"Pool Hopping" is basically a phrase only DVC members would understand. Would it be too difficult for the resorts to post a "No Pool Hopping" sign at the pool area enterances so this doesn't happen. But I also strongely agree-once your in,never ask someone to leave. I would almost bet the people who jumped into your chairs are the ones that alerted the "pool cop". They probably know what the DVC tote bag means. I don't believe the pool hopping perk is a contractural agreement,it's more of an added perk to membership. I think if Disney keeps getting bombarded with complaints-they'll just end pool hopping altogether. It seems that all the resorts act like little independant countries, free to enforce or make up policy as they go along. I'd be willing to bet you could poll all staff members at all resorts about pool hopping and get hundreds of different answers.

[DebbieB]

The part that would really make me mad is that fact that you own at Boardwalk, you pay your dues there. Boardwalk members pay the highest dues of the 3 WDW resorts and part of that is supposed to be due to the pool slide. It would have been different if it would have been announced that pool hopping to Boardwalk was not permitted this week or if they had a sign up. They had no right to embarrass you in front of others. I would think seeing your DVC bag would have made them go past you, not single you out. I could understand that being a flag at a non-DVC resort, but not at Boardwalk.

[DVCDAVE]

I agree with KNWVIKING 100%. As bad as what happened to LIDISNEYFAN is, I almost feel that this poolhopping "privilage" is getting to be a royal pain in the "______" (fill in the blank) to the Disney, and they are going to take it away. Regardless of what the CM said when LIDISNEY bought, in the paperwork we all signed, says that poolhopping is a privelage, NOT a right. We also signed a form that said we read the paperwork. If the paperwork contradicted what the CM said, it is the buyers responsibility to get clarifacation, and if necessary, have the paerwork changed, or the CM's supervisor correct the CM.

LIDISNEY's strongest arguement is that he is a BWV resort owner. I can not find any rule that would exclude him from the property. On this he has a point, maybe we do need clarifacation in this area.

But, before we all tear down the place for what has happened here to LIDISNEYFAN, lets realize that we all have something to loose here. I think the clock IS running out on pool hopping already, to much noise about it is going to make them pull the plug only quicker.

Does aanyone believe they will still allow pool hopping at SAB after the BCV open ???? Not me, that day, in my mind, will mark the end of all pool hopping....everywhere.

http://houseofdisney.homestead.com/files/vacclub01.gif

WDW:
76,77,78,87,FW
92,Offsite
95 POL
96(2), GF,Offsite
97,GF
98,99,00,FW
8/00 DVC member @ BWV
3/01 BWV, FW
3/01 DVC member @ WLV
11/01 BWV !

[Lesley]

I can't imagine how you even were singled out....BWV isn't exactly a small resort and you easily could have been staying there. If they are going to kick someone out of the pool who is already there it should be the non-DVC, non-BWV guests.

What I'm trying to think of is a way that DVC/BWV management could make up to you for your lost time and embarrassment, generally just their poor handling of the situation. I would like to know that the cm who did this to you (the recreation guy, or whatever) was warned about his behavior..that this is not an appropriate way to treat members (who indeed pay his salary to a certain degree!)...plus they could offer you something like...hmmm....drinks and snacks from the Leaping Horse on your next visit or something like that....a token gesture that showing that they are sorry for causing you this difficulty.

Also I was under the impression that although pool hopping can be temporarily suspended because of crowds that this would not include other DVC properties.....

Hmmm....I wonder what the wording in the contract is...let me look it up...


Lesley


1979 Contemporary
1992 Off-site
1994 Carribean Beach
1999 Fort Wilderness and Coronado Springs
2000 Polynesian and Old Key West
2002 Boardwalk Villas

[bwvmary]

I noticed LOTS of folks at the BWV pool who had no resort ID on them at all last time I was there. This never happens at SAB because you have to enter through a gate and show your ID if it's busy at all. I think that an ID check on entry to the BWV pool would solve 99% of the overcrowding, as non-guests and non-members would not be able to come in. It would solve 100% of the embarrassment of being tossed out once you were already in.

Mary
DVC Member BWV, HH
1976, 1985, 1989- Off property; 1990-91 - Disney Villas; 1993 - 2X - Disneyland; 1994 - Disneyland; 1997 - Beach Club; 1998 - All Star Music and Wilderness Lodge; 1999 - All Star Movies; 1999 - Boardwalk Villas; 2000 - Disney Institute and Yacht Club; 2000 - Contemporary and Boardwalk Villas; 2000 - Old Key West; 2000 - Hilton Head Island

[Galahad]

I assume you were staying at OKW on points and had the DVC Member printed on your resort ID. I agree with the majority here. Once they let you in they should be obligated to let you stay. If the close it to hopping in the middle of the day, wandering around looking for people to remove is unacceptable. Also, OKW should have notified you which pools were not available. We had the SAB problem a couple of years ago and by last year they had got the drill down pretty good at OKW and told us at check-in time what wasn't available.

Further, they should be obligated to a certain amount of civility about it. DVC members, over time, spend a lot more at Disney and are more pofitable to Disney than occassional renting resort guests. There should at least be a certain amount of respect shown while enforcing their ever-fluid rules.

[familyfun86]

I am sorry but I have to agree that this must have been a mortifying experience that nobody wants to deal with when on vacation. I understand steves point that they must accomodate resort guests and that the pool hopping is a priviledge that can be revoked at anytime but the way this family was treated is just plain wrong. Every time that we have stayed at DVC we ask during check-in if there is any pool hopping restrictions currently in place. Right before we leave to go to another resort I call the front desk and once again we ask the same question. So given that I would have been upset beyond belief if the RM had asked us to leave. I do not mind being asked for my rsort ID which has happened on a few occasions but once they saw "MEMBER" they would politely say have a nice day. This episode was completely unsatisfactory!!! It is easy to say what I would have done but I am sure that LILDis would have even been more upset if security escorted her out. I am pledging that it will take the resort manager to ask me to leave and that is only after everyones else has had an ID check, not just a targeted DVC member. :mad:

[Steve BW99]

LIDisneyFan said: “Sorry you feel this was a good thing - hope it happens to you next time.” I’m sorry you are so bitter. I never said I was glad you or anyone had to be asked to leave, I only said I was glad the rules were enforced. Unfortunately, the pool was deemed over-crowded by the recreation manager and asked non-Boardwalk guests to leave.

Joeblack said, “it should be enforced upon every one and upon arival at the pool.” I agree it should be enforced upon everyone, and stated so. The idea it should be enforced upon arrival is where I will disagree. In this case the recreation manager approached LIDisneyFan after 3 hours. In three hours the crowds can change dramatically. Should a BWV guest AND owner be turned away because other non-Boardwalk guests were there first?

[nuthut]

Just because you are a Boardwalk owner, does not give you the right to swim there. You can only swim when you are a registered guest (either points or cash) at the Boardwalk Inn or Villas or if you were staying on DVC points at the OKW resort or WLV resort and pool hopping at the Boardwalk was not closed. Was pool hopping closed that day? If so, what is your complaint, and if not, complain to the resort management.

[Tiggeriffic]

My question is: "Why were they the only ones approached?" Just because they had a DVC bag means nothing. I'm assuming that a lot of people staying at the BWV have these bags as well and would have every right to be there.

It only seems fair that they would ask EVERYONE for id if they're trying to reduce the crowds. That would be the only fair way to deal with it. Then those who have no right to be there should be asked to leave first (i.e. people who aren't actually staying at the BWV or DVC members staying on points). Only after that should they even consider asking DVC members staying at another resort to leave.

I agree that pool hopping is a privilege and that it can be taken away. However, I believe that it is DVC's responsibility to notify us if they are going to take away that privilege. Currently, the rules are "check before you go" and you'll be notified if it is allowed. I don't remember reading anything about a 3 hour limit.

[Joeblack]

Steve. A guest and owner at BWV should NEVER be asked to leave. I said "enforced upon arrival" meaning that if you are a DVC member staying on points, you should ALWAYS be allowed. Only (And Only) when the pool has reached capacity (It is posted by ever pool), should no more people be allowed in until somebody else leaves voluntarily (It is just a matter of courtesy). I would hate to be asked to leave a restaurant because there are people waiting for a table. Looking for who to ask out and making up reasons was a big and rude mistake made by this CM, and I hope he takes the severance offer from Disney or this is the right time to send letters to expedite this bureaucrat's departure from WDW.

I am sorry if I sound harsh, but WDW is an already expensive holiday location and one of the main reasons it is so is the level of service provided. Inneficient, intolerant or rude people should look for work elsewhere, not in a place where people go to spend hard earned dollars on a magic holiday.


As far as Pool Hopping being cancelled because of complaints in this board, I seriously doubt it.
As great as the DIS is, we, the DVCers in this Board are a very small percentage of the total.

[baileybrad]

has been in danger forever....NOT, if the procedures were followed disallowing "outsider ie people who have no business at a particular Disney pool" were removed, then there would not be an overcrowded situation to begin with except on the rarest occasions such as SAB during spring break. Pool hopping has been "going away" for several years according to some "the sky is also falling". I did a survey on pool hopping a few weeks ago and it appears that this practice has very little impact on pool capacities. To say someone complaining about unbalanced treatment will cause people to loose a priviledge just doesn't make sense to me. I think that someone, a low level employee in this case, made a rash/rude decision. I wish there was a way to find out if the BW main pool had been closed to other DVC guests on this particular day and if so when. I still believe that the main reason any WDW pool gets packed is because of what I have seen in the past...complete outsiders using the pools or regular Disney guests trespassing at other resort's pools. I once saw a dozen folks removed at the WL in about 5 minutes and that does not count the ones that figured out that folks were being asked to present proper resort ids and bailed on their on...at least a dozen more. I do believe that if the BW main pool had been shutdown to outside DVC guests on this day that being a BW owner who happened to be staying at another DVC resort on points would not allow you to pool hop on that day either because the pool would have been designated closed to pool hopping. Does anyone have firsthand knowledge of any resort's pool, besides the SAB area a few weeks a year, ever being closed to DVC guests for pool hopping. I myself have not .

[DVCDAVE]

"Pool hopping.... has been in danger forever....NOT," from above post.

May I kindly point out that when WDW opened in 1971....Pool hopping was promoted as a perk to ALL resort guests upon check in. Is that around today ??? NOT.... !

http://houseofdisney.homestead.com/files/vacclub01.gif

WDW:
76,77,78,87,FW
92,Offsite
95 POL
96(2), GF,Offsite
97,GF
98,99,00,FW
8/00 DVC member @ BWV
3/01 BWV, FW
3/01 DVC member @ WLV
11/01 BWV !

[Olaf]

What a horrible experience for you and your family. I hope you notified your guide as well. I'm tempted to call mine. We just bought in March and pool hopping was definitely part of the sales pitch. I hope you got the name of the CM as well.

I've often thought that resort guests should be issued some sort of plastic bracelet on checkin. They could be colored coded and changed frequently. Guests would be instructed to wear their bracelet and when they didn't have it on, be asked for resort ID.

We have friends who regularly camp at FW. They've told us that they pool hop all the time.

To be honest, I'm a little afraid to use this privilege. I'd would die of embarrassment if someone did that to me. My DH would come unglued. I'll have to give that some thought.

My 2 cents.

Steph
DL - 1966
DL - 1970
WDW - 1973 - Contemporary
WDW - 1975 - Day trip
DL - 1988 - Day trip
WDW - 1993 - CBR
WDW - 1995 - SOG
WDW - 1997 - SOG
WDW - 1999 - SOG
WDW - 2001 - SOG & PO

http://members.aol.com/vltdisney/aniportrait.gif

[Werner Weiss]

After reading this thread, I decided to spring for a long distance phone call to the OKW front desk. I asked several questions to a helpful cast member. Here's what I learned: The pools at Boardwalk and at Yacht & Beach were officially unavailable for pool hopping yesterday. It is not unusual for the Boardwalk pool to be unavailable for pool hopping; it's happened several days this week. The OKW front desk does not know what pools are available or unavailable for pool hopping on any given day, so a DVC member staying at OKW should not call the OKW front desk to inquire about pool hopping. Instead, the DVC member should dial "0" on their room phone and ask to be put through to the front desk at the resort where the pool is located. There should never be a case where a member is told over the phone that the pool is available, but is then asked to leave from the pool.
These answers contradict my previous understanding in two ways: I had previously understood that the only pool area that was ever declared unavailable was Stormalong Bay at Yacht & Beach -- although Disney announced a few years ago that any pool could be made unavailable for capacity reasons. I had previously understood that I should call the OKW front desk if staying at OKW (which is what I did when we pool hopped to Stormalong Bay in August 1999).

I can understand why the restriction was added a few years ago, but even Vacation Magic made it seem that, in reality, it only applied to Stormalong Bay and only for a very limited amount of time over the course of the year.

Now, having said all that, I think it was really, really wrong for a Boardwalk CM to ask a family to leave in the middle of the afternoon. DVC needs to do a better job helping DVC members determine whether a pool is unavailable. (How about a simple recording that DVC members can dial directly from their rooms?) And busy pool areas need to check every family's resort IDs upon entry to the pool area in a way that's fast, fair, and friendly. If someone who is neither a guest of that resort nor a DVC member staying with points at a DVC resort, the CM should politely turn them away ("we hope you'll stay with us in the future.") If a DVC member attempts to enter a pool area that is unavailable for hopping that day, the CM should suggest alternatives in a friendly manner. And if a DVC member is hopping to a pool that's available, the CM should welcome them just as they would a guest of that resort.

Pool hopping is a good thing for DVC Sales and for DVC members. It's a selling point and a benefit. DVC continues to promote pool hopping as a benefit -- and it is a good benefit. I'm sure it helps DVC sell memberships, and it leads to increased DVC customer satisfaction. Pool hopping is one answer to the question, "What are we going to do at WDW if we go year after year?"

I'm tired of reading some posters on this board who suggest that pool hopping will be eliminated or should be eliminated. With some minor tweaking, especially in terms of communications with DVC members, there's no reason why pool hopping shouldn't continue until 2042.

-----
Werner Weiss, Curator of Yesterland (http://www.yesterland.com), featuring discontinued Disneyland attractions

[This message was edited by Werner Weiss on 04-12-01 at 06:42 PM.]

[Dean]

I would whole heartedly agree that what was done AND how it was done was inappropriate. I have only heard that SAB has been closed, has anyone else heard of BW being closed?

However, pool hoping is not part of the contract and can be changed or removed at any time. The current rules state that you are to call the front desk and check as to whether pool hoping is currently available or not. I assume they will either have a list or will check individually.

One point that is that many timeshares offer use of facilities to members on a year round basis, DVC does not do that. Therefore being a BW member has nothing to do with this scenario.

Please let us know what you hear back.

Dean

[Dean]

Sorry Werner, read your post after I had responded. It was also my understanding that you called the resort desk where you are staying. If the pool was officially closed to pool hoping, that certainly springs a new light on this subject. It should have been handled better or probably not at all. A simple, check first next time please, would have been the best alternative.

Dean

[Werner Weiss]

Dean wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>However, pool hoping is not part of the contract and can be changed or removed at any time.[/quote]
True. Pool hopping is not a contractual right. It's not part of our deeded real estate interest. But... It is promoted as a benefit in the sales process. And I have pool hopping in writing as benefit in the paperwork that I received after purchasing; there's no disclaimer that it could end. The only disclaimer that I'm aware of is the catch-all disclaimer in the contract that says that Disney owes us nothing except our real estate interest. (The actual wording is different; our salesperson explained it along the lines of, "If Disney decides to close the theme parks and replace them with junk yards, you have no recourse.")

If DVC ever actually tries to eliminate pool hopping (or even to restrict more than they already have), DVC would face a serious negative reaction from the many DVC members who enjoy the benefit and rightfully feel it was promised to them.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The current rules state that you are to call the front desk and check as to whether pool hoping is currently available or not. I assume they will either have a list or will check individually.[/quote]
Today the OKW front desk told me that members should call the front desk of the resort where the pool is located, not the front desk where they're staying. (By the way, I think it would be a good idea to get the name of the front desk CM and write down the exact time of the call, in the unlikely case that there are any issues later.)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>One point that is that many timeshares offer use of facilities to members on a year round basis, DVC does not do that. Therefore being a BW member has nothing to do with this scenario.[/quote]
Excellent point!

-----
Werner Weiss, Curator of Yesterland (http://www.yesterland.com), featuring discontinued Disneyland attractions

[This message was edited by Werner Weiss on 04-12-01 at 07:53 PM.]

[ez]

Wow!!!I would have been pool hopping mad too if that had happened to me. I go to disney to de-stress, not to be stressed out. I agree that Disney needs to get their policies straight to ensure this kind of thing does not happen again.
First, they need to actively and daily check resort id's, not just at SAB, but at all resorts. Maybe that would start discouraging all the people that shouldn't be there in the first place!There are many Fla. residents that seem to think a dip in a resort pool is included in their admission ticket. Or other vacationers who think they have really beat the system by staying offsite at a days inn and spending the day at a disney resort pool. Believe me, as a nearby Fl. resident, I have heard some appauling horror stories of what people do repeatedly and always seem to get away with. It never bothered me as much as it does now, being a dvc member. I would not be offended to show my resort id if it meant that everyone using the pool was supposed to be there. And if a pool is closed to pool-hopping, they definitely should post a sign or something. We might be dvc members, but we are not mind readers!

[CaptainMidnight]

"I'm tired of reading some posters on this board who suggest that pool hopping will be eliminated or should be eliminated. With some minor tweaking, especially in terms of communications with DVC members, there's no reason why pool hopping shouldn't continue until 2042."

I whole heartedly agree. Very well said.
Thank you for your thoughtful post.

[dvcdudes]

This really stinks. I think there are more people who stay outside Disney, using Disney pools, etc. or non DVC members who stay in economy resorts who use the deluxe resort pools etc. I remember reading a post by a DIS member who turned in a couple who were bragging about staying outside Disney and using Disney amenaties (I think it was the jaquzzi). I originally thought I wouldn't have done this but after reading what happened to LIDisneyFan I can now say I would turn in a non member in a heartbeat.
When I purchased my DVC membership, I thought that pool hopping was a great selling point. I would be REALLY, REALLY pissed if that happened to me. I would demand that every person on the pool deck be ID'd and any non members be escorted out before I was made to leave. Especially owning at that resort and being it is a DVC resort. I am planning a trip to Disney (BWV) next Easter and won't be pool hopping. I wouldn't want to be embarrased like LIDisneyFan was, so I'll skip the hop. Lord help any non DVC members I catch invading the BWV pool though. Our dues (LIDisneyFan included) pay to maintain the pool and life guards etc. so non members keep out!
I know it leaves a bad taste in your mouth but don't allow one over zealous CM take the magic out of your heart.

DVCDUDES
Owner BWV Feb 2000
http://home.earthlink.net/~bobdgraves/animdis.gif

[downontheBW]

I'd be furious! My husband would have been ready to fly back home right then and there. And the entire Disney experience would never be the same. I realize that they have to suspend pool-hopping privileges sometimes (although maybe not this time) but I think we should always able to use the pool of the resort where we belong as long as we're staying on points. That is, if I'm staying at OKW on points, I should be able to use the BWV pool but maybe not the VWL pool.

Also, on the days that pool-hopping is suspended, a sign should be posted stating that. It doesn't have to be large, just something that us DVCers would know to look for. That way we'd know before being embarrased.

I think they owe your family at least a dinner!

Dixie Landings '94, '96 / Wilderness Lodge, Yacht Club '98
Off site (never again) '99 / BWV '00 / HHI '01 / BWV '02

Heidi

[Werner Weiss]

downontheBW wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I realize that they have to suspend pool-hopping privileges sometimes (although maybe not this time) but I think we should always able to use the pool of the resort where we belong as long as we're staying on points.[/quote]
But that isn't how it works. The pool hopping rules have nothing to do with your home resort. Nor, as Dean pointed out, do we have any special rights to use the facilities of our home resorts when not staying there (unlike some other timeshares).

When you stay at another DVC resort, you're a guest of that resort, not of your home resort.

-----
Werner Weiss, Curator of Yesterland (http://www.yesterland.com), featuring discontinued Disneyland attractions

[babydoll]

I am truly horrified by this account. Pool hopping is a very big deal for my 3 kids. I hope this one incident didn't ruin the magic of your entire trip.

Please, please, please write those letters! Your fighting for each and every one of us. I think I might start a writing campaign of my own. Maybe if we all regulary send letters and email to DVC management about how stongly we feel about this pool hopping privilege they will not even THINK about messing around with it and maybe improve upon it.

http://disneyclipart.simplenet.com/Movies/Mulan/Mulan/mulan06.gif

[Bennet]

I think there is a problem when they make a big deal to point out when SAB is close to hopping, put up signs, card people at the gate, etc. That establishes expectations for notice.

In the interest of consistancy all resorts closed to pool hopping should have the same notice practices. So if BWV pool is going to be closed notice in VM, signs and carding like SAB are only appropriate.

[Dean]

Sorry, I'm one of those that believe DVC will eventually do away with Pool Hoping. Though we really don't use it, I certainly hope it continues.

Here's a quote from the VM Vol. 8, No. 1. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Be sure to check at the Front Desk for info on the current perks. The listing will also let you know if pool-hopping is open across the Walt Disney World Resort hotels. [/quote] The way I read this and other limited info I've seen, they couldn't (or at least shouldn't) just decide to close a resort pool on the spur of the moment, at least not on a whim during a particular day.

Dean

[This message was edited by Dean on 04-12-01 at 09:05 PM.]

[DisneyMim]

I am outraged at this as well. We have been going to Disney forever and have been DVC members since it started and I can tell you that most of the people at pools who do not belong there are not DVC members, but people staying at other resorts both onsite and offsite just as other posts have stated. I am really tired of hearing people bragging about how they use any pool they want. Just a couple of weeks ago I was talking to someone who told me they do this all the time and have never been caught. I have heard people countless times at different pools (OKW, BWV, CSR, even Vero) talk about how they aren't staying there, they are just using the pool. Some are so obvious about it too!! I can't believe that you were singled out, I feel real bad for you. Tons of members use their bags so I can't even remotely imagine how that would lead them to question you. I use mine all the time. Pool Hopping is a great perk and while it is not in the contract it has certainly become part of the norm. Let's not start, but other things were not part of the original contract either and have apparantly become part of the norm also. I don't like the fact that you were singled out. I don't like when any member is told that they cannot do something and others can. It just is not right. I'm betting you were not the only member who was pool hopping that day. I hope they apologize to you big time.

[Dean]

69 points for a Jan studio, pool hoping without checking, extra towels and soaps, some of the room furnishings were the norm also and have changed. The idea that things have been that way for a while and cannot or will not be changed for that reason alone is silly. Things will change and some will be for the better and others for the worse. Of course some changes will help one person and hurt another. Does anyone really feel like SAB will be routinely open for pool hoping when the BCV guests are added to the already present YC/BC guests there now? And since that is the main pool that is used for pool hoping, that will likely be the beginning of the end or possibly even the end itself. Just another reason why BCV points will be higher cost and higher points per night than BWV.

Dean

[Peggy Sue]

What a horrible experience! So sorry you and your family had to go through that.

Thanks Werner Weiss for calling OKW and getting the "up to the minute" guidelines for all of us.

We don't take advantage of pool hopping, but many do and it is a nice perk to have. I agree with Werner Weiss that Disney should get their act together and come up with a better system to monitor and enforce their rules.

I also agree with Dean that Pool hopping to your home resort is not guaranteed if you are not a guest at your home resort. However, Disney should have a better way to communicate with DVC members about which pools are closed that day to pool hoping. Werner Weiss had an excellent suggestion of a voice message we all could dial to check out what was closed before heading out the door for the day.

You never should have been singled out and asked to leave after being at the pool for 3 hours, plus the CM didn't make any effort to find other ture "gate crashers", who should have been asked to leave immediately.

Write the letters, keep writing them, and print and send this thread along. Hope this incident didn't ruin your entire vacation. Please let us know how they respond to your letters.

Have a wonderful day!

[LIDisneyFan]

Again, I'll quote the DVC website regarding pool hopping during this period:

Due to the high occupancy that is expected in early April, DVC Members will not be permitted to use the pool at Disney's Yacht and Beach Club Resort on certain dates. The dates that have been identified so far are April 1-15, 2001, but additional dates may be included. Please check with the resort front desk regarding pool availability prior to going over to the resort.

This says nothing about checking at the desk for any other resort. period. I did not get my vacation magic (which I thought was a mirror copy of the website - I'm wrong) until after I was away. If I knew I was supposed to call Boardwalk to confirm, I would have. Disney needs to get together their communication so that this does not happen again.

Again, the pool was not crowded. Let's get that point straight.

Also, I understand the contractual issues - However, I do have a problem with sales people representing a product in a certain way during a contract signing - My main concern is the lack of trust in what I am told during my sales presentation.

By the way, I reread our documents last night - Disney can also remove any DVC property from DVC point sharing (or the entire program) whenever they feel like it - so those of you who are quoting contract should be prepared when you can only use your home resort (no, I don't think this will ever happen - I'm just pointing out that the contract we all signed gives Disney carte blanche on virtually every decision. So don't assume the BCV will be part of our program)

No, I will not be quiet because a sales person told me something that is untrue - Disney is not my parents - I don't expect them to pull rights from me because I complain or make it difficult.

I spoke with the Manager of Product Development, who basically agreed that the situation was mishandled, but explained that pool hopping can be revoked at any time. I tried to explain that this benefit costs nothing, and that the number of poeple who use it at other DVC resorts is inperceivable compared to the total capacity - that removing this right causes detriment and nothing else. They should concentrate on checking everyone at the pool before they come in, and make sure they don't overbook their rooms with too many guests.

She did tell me that I should speak with the GM of any hotel wif anything like this should ever happen again BEFORE we leave the pool area. Usually it can be rectified. I went to the DVC offices instead (thinking this was a DVC sales misrepresentation issue)

I then got a very sincere call from the GM at the BW, who appologiozed for the way the situation was handled. Without going into details, he has 'made up' for the embarrasment. He also indicated that operationally they may have to come up with a better system (checking everyone on the way in) like SAB does.

Missed a call from the Director of DVC sales (I'm calling him back Monday) - this is the one that converns me most, because (just like the 5 in a room story), I feel I was lied to in a direct manner when a direct question was asked. I'll post back again after that call.

I never thought for a moment that other DVC resorts were treated like other "WDW reorts' for us memebers. The program was described as one big happy family, where points were interchangable, and the only difference was your booking window. Again, I guess I misunderstood, or was mislead.


On a totally seperate topic, If SAB is so crowded now, how on earth will they handle the crowds when BCV opens. We know the pools for the villas (based upon WLV) are much samller, and most people will use SAB.

[DVCDAVE]

Quote-- "By the way, I reread our documents last night - Disney can also remove any DVC property from DVC point sharing (or the entire program) whenever they feel like it - so those of you who are quoting contract should be prepared when you can only use your home resort"

Yes, the contract does say that, and I asked for clarifaction on that before I purchased. I felt I received a fair and honest answer from my CM, Jim McCoy. He, like you, explained that no one expects this to happen. However, it is there to emphasize the fact that we each own a real estate interest in a resort, not a program. Further, whatever 'privilages' that are currently packaged around ownership of the real estate interest are subject to change. As a result, Disney must use the broadest language possible to cover almost any contigency that may arise, in order to clearly express that what you are only buying is a real estate interest, and nothing more.

I would also like to add that on the cover of the offering statement there is a disclaimer that there is no guarantee that this or any property will be added to the program. So it should not be a surprise to anyone that BCV or any future property will be added. I belive this disclaimer is repeated more often than any other phrase through out the offering statement.

http://houseofdisney.homestead.com/files/vacclub01.gif

WDW:
76,77,78,87,FW
92,Offsite
95 POL
96(2), GF,Offsite
97,GF
98,99,00,FW
8/00 DVC member @ BWV
3/01 BWV, FW
3/01 DVC member @ WLV
11/01 BWV !

[This message was edited by DVCDAVE on 04-13-01 at 09:59 AM.]

[Tinkerbelloncapecod]

It is a sad day when Disney treats their customers like this poor family.

Yes we were told we could pool hop when we bought into BW and I understand when it's crowded that we cannot pool hop but to single out this family and ruin their vacation day was inexcusable! they should have asked guests of guests to leave the pool area first instead of a DVC Member!

SHAME ON DISNEY!!!!! roboucher@nehcf.nemc.org

Tinkerbelloncapecod

[dtheboys]

So that the pools are used by DVC and guests of the resort, have a towel check in area! You must show the girl your DVC card or Hotel I.D. The towel can be all white w/ a colored stripe, or some other markings. This will eliminate non-Disney pool hoppers, and guests trying to sneak in from Let's say All Sports, etc.
Will this work?? <IMG SRC="/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif" alt="confused">
This towel check only has to be used during peak periods at the resort. Ex: April, June, etc.

[This message was edited by dtheboys on 04-13-01 at 10:06 AM.]

[DVCDAVE]

I like that idea DTHEBOYS !! it is sutle, yet affective !!

http://houseofdisney.homestead.com/files/vacclub01.gif

WDW:
76,77,78,87,FW
92,Offsite
95 POL
96(2), GF,Offsite
97,GF
98,99,00,FW
8/00 DVC member @ BWV
3/01 BWV, FW
3/01 DVC member @ WLV
11/01 BWV !

[LIDisneyFan]

Actually, at OKW, you get your towels from Hanks (they don't ask for ID, but I know many other timeshares request ID when getting towels) -having a similar setup at BW might work well, but it would cost an additional person working there (community hall is much farther away) - but the idea is a good one, and shows that this does not need to be major problem for a company as smart as Disney.

[dtheboys]

This can also be as easy as a waterproof handstamp. Just go up to the food area at the pool bar, show your I.D. and get a hand stamp!
Then no additional staff is even needed!
I love DVC, and the people who are members( well most of them HA HA HA) :cool:

[tarzanman]

I am glad that the BW GM apologized for the wrongdoing that occurred to you and your family. While pool hopping still exists, the way it is done or allowed should be made more clear to the DVC members. DVC and the resorts should be on the same page.

It actually irks me that the Y & BC pool is not available like the others. I know that it gets crowded. It should however be set up so that if its full that people will have to wait to get in whether you are a resort guest or not. That is why there are so many pools. You just have to go to a different one. Should people that buy 1 day park tickets to MK get to go on rides before me because I have a hopper and can come back later. No! If I want to go early in the morning when no one is there but still can't get in that is pretty stupid.

Just another opinion.

some trips as a child
DxL 4/00
DVC member 4/00
BWV 9/00, 12/01
VB 9/00, 5/01
DCL 1/01, 12/01-1/02 New Years Cruise
OKW 1/01

http://gennaroworld.topcities.com

[Bennet]

Oops signed in under hubbies id this is Zurgswive's opinion.

Sorry to hear about your experience, I'm sure if it had happen to my family it would have put a damper on everything.

Any how I think the towel ID system would diffenatly cut down on the number of people that pool hop at the BW. They did have a stand where someone rented life jackets and such at the far end of the pool a few years ago. They should bring this position back move it closer to the main entrance and check ID's.

If people brought there own towels from home, room towels, or towels from another resort Pool (some are more obvious then others) this could be a starting point of ID checking. I think non-resort guests should be asked to leave but DVC pool hoppers should never be asked to leave but they could be denied access due to over crowding before they sit down for 3 hours.

I'd also like to know what capacity is for the boardwalk pool. Is it based on people in the pool or people on the deck area also. I would think that capacity would mean that all of the chairs are filled. Why have the chairs if they weren't meant to be filled? If it is based on people in the pool this is rediculous(sp) because as a Pool Manager myself I know there are state limits of bather load, but to regulate bather load at BW they would have to have alot few chairs. They would have to anticipate that there is the possiblity that all bathers could possibly be in the pool at the same time. So, if the chairs are all filled then they are at there anticipated capacity. Something to look into.

<A HREF="http://badshoe.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://members.home.net/bad-shoe/badshoe_logo_small.gif
</A>
</P>
Play the Celebrity Shoe Game at BadShoe.com
http://badshoe.com
[URL=http://members.home.net/dunlapsdisney/]http://members.home.net/dunlapsdisney/[/URL

[PamOKW]

Regulating the pool is the way to solve this. They already know how. They do it at Vero. You must show your room ID to get a towel. Sometimes they also issue wrist bands for everyone in your group when you get the towels. You also must show your ID to order anything from the pool snack bar.

I think a lot of problems would be solved if they did the same with the resort transportation. They don't have to check everyone but you do spot checks. That way people will think twice about staying offsite and using the buses, pools, etc.

[GrammieMame]

I wonder what the response would be from non-DVC resorts if we called to ask if pool hopping was available that day. I'd bet some of them wouldn't even know what we were talking about, and would just automatically say "no". Others might so no anyhow, just to keep their pools from being too crowded. The DVC resort that we are staying at should be aware of pool hopping closings, and we should be able to call our own front desk for the info. In these days of instant communication, how big of a problem could that be.

[downontheBW]

Werner, I was commenting on what I'd like the pool-hopping rules to be. I know we only can be assured of being able to use the pool of whatever resort we are staying in. I would like it, however, if we were always able to use the pool at our home resort. I don't expect it to happen.

Can you imagine if a couple thousand of us BWV owners decided to stay at the resorts all over WDW but wanted to use the BWV pool on one particular day? I'm sure the Disney folks are clever enough to not let that happen.

Dixie Landings '94, '96 / Wilderness Lodge, Yacht Club '98
Off site (never again) '99 / BWV '00 / HHI '01 / BWV '02

Heidi

[Figaro30]

I'm really sorry to hear that this happened to you.

If it was me....I would have made such a huge scene that nobody would have kicked me out. I would have refused to go!!! Especially after being there for a few hours already. You pay that much money to "own" and are told you can't use the pool! HA! We'll see about that.

http://lisasclipart.bizland.com/images/figaro1.jpg
'81 - Cont.
'88 - Disneyland
'89 - Maingate East
'91 - CBR
'94 - CBR
'95 - CBR
'98 - BC
'00 - WL
'01 - OKW

[Stinky_Pete]

Just look what happened to poor Steve BW99 for expressing his opinion:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Sorry you feel this was a good thing - hope it happens to you next time[/quote]

I, too, am sorry you suffered embarrassment during this incident, but I mean really:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> That is outrageous!!!!! I would not have left and would have made a big mess right then and there. [/quote]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> What a horrible experience for you and your family. [/quote]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'd be furious! My husband would have been ready to fly back home right then and there. And the entire Disney experience would never be the same.[/quote]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I am truly horrified by this account. [/quote]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I am outraged at this as well. [/quote]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If it was me....I would have made such a huge scene that nobody would have kicked me out. I would have refused to go!!! [/quote]
Let's put a few things in perspective here:

First, I don't think the issue is how crowded the pool is, but how many lounge chairs are available. The pool wasn't crowded -- how many chairs were available? Second, the BW pool isn't fenced off like the SAB pool, so it's a little more difficult for a CM to prevent "unauthorized" entry into the pool area. Third, it seems obvious someone complained -- I'm sure if it were one of you (who are so upset about this) who complained because you and your family couldn't find lounge chairs and the CM didn't boot someone you'd be just as "hopping" mad as LIDisneyFan is. It sounds to me like the Recreation CM did his/her best in a difficult situation. May not have been the perfect solution, but sometimes we all have those times were we could have handled something a little better. My goodness -- it sounds like some of you are ready to lynch the poor person!

[Gail Reale]

Stinky-Pete - a "CMs best" in this situation would have been to ID other guests as well, NOT single out one family, and a family who happens to be DVC owners, not renters, who was already there for 3 hours. We never pool hop, so the issue isn't that important for us as a "perk", but being singled out and asked to leave is a large issue which should be dealt with by LIDis. through the proper channels of DVC. The CM should be retrained in Traditions or whatever they call it in WDW. He/she could have asked to speak to one of the adults in the group privately and not caused a scene of embarrassment for the family. The way this was handled by the CM is a definite Guest Issue to be followed up by this family.

[Rock'n Robin]

I also wonder why the CM, even if being nagged to get someone to empty some chairs, chose an obvious DVC family. Normally they would assume, since BWV is a DVC resort, that they belonged there, right? I would have found a family with a lot of bags and stuff--if it is your hotel, obviously you don't take a lot with you to the pool. If you are offsite and sneaking on, you need clothes, etc.
When we go for our first BWV stay in June, I want to check out SAB, but also go to the Poly pool--we stayed there last year and want to see the new one. I really like pool-hopping as a benefit and hope these new kinks in the system get worked out.
Robin M.

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/jiminy05.gif

[jcodespoti]

I am not a pool hopper..nor do I play one on tv. I was not there when this situation occured. The thing that bugs me the most about this is that regardless of how "full" the pool was or is an owner should be first in line to use the pool. Even if you are staying at another resort. Your dues are going toward that pool.


Joe in CT

[Joeblack]

StinkyPete:

I someone has to be removed then everyone at the pool should have been id'd. Secondly, if you arrive late to a movie theatre or a play adn all you can find is a lousy seat, then you can't expect the usher to kick somebody out even if you are "theater mad" If you call late for a breakfast at Cindys, you can be frustrated that you didn't get a PS, but you cannot expect the CM to try to cancel another person's Ps to give it to you.

Rudeness and lack of tact are inexcusable.

[spiceycat]

they are only surpose to close the pool to pool-hopping when the resort is full. not the pool only the resort - or at least that is the case at BC/YC. which is why you are surpose to call the front desk of the resort you which to pool-hop at - it was in an old VM (and it stated that it would be in the new Member's Guide) (but I don't think it is there yet).

but as I stated in my first post - you were treated badly and there is no excuse for that.

BC/YC only got the fence around the pool - when people from Epcot were coming to use that pool - they stopped at the quiet pool and took towels & changed so they would not have to show their id's.

I like the fence (VB has one too), but it would have to programmed to identify not only that resort but the DVC resorts too.

[This message was edited by spiceycat on 04-13-01 at 04:47 PM.]

[A1A1]

The CM should have very quietly explained that the pool was closed to hopping if that is what was decided by management in anticipation of crowded conditions during Easter week, but should have let you stay since they apparently made no effort to restrict access upon entry to the pool area. They should have given you a "just for today".

You probably would have appreciated the courtesy for explaining in an inconspicuous manner, rather than the embarassment you were subjected to.

On my last trip to BWV in November, there were families that had Florida resident visitors with them. I heard their conversations, and boy was I mad. There was even a group of retired Florida ladies playing cards that made this their morning ritual. I was mad at the time, thinking that I was subsidizing their retirement with my DVC dues.

Disney needs to close pools to people who are not staying anywhere but in their own homes after they swim. That would probably solve the Easter week overcrowding problem.

That being said, I have never pool-hopped. I don't know why, other than it seems like a pain to pack everything up to swim somewhere other than where I am staying. I hate to have to get dressed again when I am in a wet bathing suit.

[dvcdudes]

I don't know about that theory, tarzanman. People pay to stay at a particular resort and that is supposed to entitle them to all the amenities at that resort. How could they let outsiders use the pool and not let a paying customer of the particular resort. I have no problem at all with how they handle pool hopping at SAB. Stop me at the gate and tell me sorry buddy, you can't come in today. BUT I agree what happened to LIdisneyfan was dead wrong.

I think we (DVC members) should always be able to use our home resort pool no matter where we stay. downbytheBW, thousands of us staying elsewhere and pool hopping to BWV pool would never happen. First of all, you are allowed to pool hop. All BWV owners who are staying elsewhere can pool hop to BWV or any other pool, so why don't it happen now? Because pool hoppers are a very small percentage of guests. I would say if 10-20 guests are pool hopping to the same pool at any one time it's a lot. The only exception is SAB. I think people come from a variety of other resorts to crash this pool.
I would venture to say that there are probably more people who use the pool at BWV, who are staying off site or at an economy hotel in WDW, than there are DVC pool hoppers at any one time. I have no facts to back this. It's just MHO.
BTW My guide told us (during our initial tour) that pool hopping to any other resort was a perk and could be discontinued. She said that the only pool that we would ever have a problem with was SAB and maybe at the POLY. She said we could always use any DVC pool when staying at any DVC resort (I specifically remember this because I said to myself "why would we ever leave the BWV pool to go to OKW pool" {snob that I am} VWL was not open yet). Now she went one step further... She said that we are owners at BWV and we could use the BWV pool at any time. We don't even have to be staying at a WDW resort. She gave an example of using points to stay at BWV from Sun-Thu and then staying at an All Star or even a Days inn on Fri and Sat and we could use all the BWV facilities because we are owners there. I thought that was pretty cool. Now I wouldn't even try it because I wouldn't want to be embarrased.
Well enough of my rambling. I just wish the guides would be a bit more honest and upfront about the "perks" of ownership.

DVCDUDES
Owner BWV Feb 2000
http://home.earthlink.net/~bobdgraves/animdis.gif

[CaptainMidnight]

Perhaps a good approach for rude behavior that you were subjected to is to make sure you find out the full name of the CM who exhibited the rude behavior. Then, post that persons name on this board. Then each of us who has concerns can find out if that CM is working at the time of our DVC visit and personally approach them to tell them how personally displeased we are with thier conduct. Maybe after 15 to 20 of us approaching the individual and explaining how we would like to see the situation handled in the future, we will have provided appropriate coaching and training for improvement to an obviously untrained, perhaps youthful, unknowing CM.

I believe I am correct in that our DVC investment pays thier salaries? As owners, their customer service behavior is accountable to us.

And certainly, this approach works in the reverse where we can pass along compliments for above and beyond actions by CMs, which seem to be much more abundant, thank goodness.

Certainly, when a pool is closed for pool hopping, that would be a very easy meassage for all front desks of all DVC units to be made aware of. That is a serious lapse in DVC communication, not the fault of members. If BW pool is closed, three simple phone calls lets all front desks know, one to WVL, KW, and in the near future, BC. How hard is that? I guess if I'm working at the KW desk and a mamber calls me and asks if the BW pool is available for pool hopping and I don't know, it would be the CM at the front desk of KW's responsibility to call BW and find out. Then a little note to my fellow KW front desk CM's keeps everyone in the loop.

Just some thoughts......

I do not want to loose pool hopping privledges because of poor communication on DVC's part.

[This message was edited by CaptainMidnight on 04-14-01 at 11:51 AM.]

[Jaypd]

Captain please dont take this worng. When you say..."I believe I am correct in that our DVC investment pays thier salaries? As owners, their customer service behavior is accountable to us."
Who are you saying we pay. As far as CM's go I would say its the Millions of Non DVC'ers more then the thousands of DVC'ers that pay for CM's salary. I love Being a DVC member but I think we have to keep things in perspective.

http://www.houseofdisney.homestead.com/files/whistler.gif
<img height=200 src=http://houseofdisney.homestead.com/files/police-medal.jpg>
Co-Moderator Debate Board
Co-Host Wednesday Night Chat

[This message was edited by Jaypd on 04-14-01 at 01:37 PM.]

[CaptainMidnight]

Actually, I was referring specifically to the CM's who are assigned directly to DVC resorts like BW, not all CMs throughout WDW. But maybe a larger portion of their salary comes from cash purchases instead of DVC owners. Then I guess that would depend on how much of the resort is sold out. Since BW is sold out, then maybe we do pay the majority of DVC specifically assigned CM's salaries. Is this indicated in our finacial statements?

Regardless, I believe we have a vested stake in holding those CMs assigned to work in DVC resorts accountable for good customer service an not to inappropriately embarass DVC owners who are attempting follow the policies and compensate for DVC's lack of communication.

Again, a simple call to the three other resorts and even posting on the member website when the decision is made to close a pool to pool-hopping prevledges would go a long way.....

[dvcdudes]

Sorry I have to disagree CaptainMidnight. I never like the "I pay your salery" approach. If you think about it, no matter what you buy, you are contributing to pay the saleries of all involved in the item you are purchasing. ie: when you buy a gallon of milk, you are helping pay the checkout persons salery as well as the store owner as well as the guy that owns the dairy farm etc...
The CM was wrong and should be told, or retrained, but not by us. He should be told by his superiors.

JMHO

DVCDUDES
Owner BWV Feb 2000
http://home.earthlink.net/~bobdgraves/animdis.gif

[Dean]

When somebody says they pay my salary, I always think "Then I need a raise". LOL

Dean

[jcodespoti]

When we were at bw in december of last year there was one bell hop that was extremely nice. Of course I cant remember his name now, but when we checked out I made sure I told the manager that he helped us with all our bags and junk that we bought!!. Anyway I think it's important that we compliment when things go right just as when we complain (like in this pool hopping case). If we dont than we all be known as a bunch of complaining, loud mouthed pains in the butt. And when this types of "wrong" (i.e. this incident)things happen to us we won't be taken seriously.

Joe in CT

[CaptainMidnight]

"The CM was wrong and should be told, or retrained, but not by us. He should be told by his superiors."

......Perhaps the CM could be required to where some kind of letter like an "R" so we would all know they were rude...... I'm trying to think of a color for the letter that would help convey the transgression........


We certainly have some rude behavior at the organization where I work that needs to be addressed, Disney does a better job than we do ...

[BobH]

Discussing LiDisney's bad experience and trying to rationalize an excuse for how she was treated is way out of line by both the members of this board and DVC. I would suggest that DVC should have run her membership card number and determined that she was a Boardwalk member and then left her alone. Disney needs to retrain the representative that asked her to leave. Situations mishandled as this one was do Disney more harm than it is worth. Hope things turn out better next time.

[normr]

All we know is what happened and a suppossed apology, we are discussing why did this happen, including whether pool hopping (one of our benefits) and outsiders showing up at pools that could be adding to the problem of overcrowded pools. So why are we "WAY OF LINE"? This is a discussion board. Most of us agree that this member was unfairly treated and it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

And some people complained about no slide at OKW where the majority of members who own there don't want one, and in the past some people accused us OKW owners for being too cheap to want to pay for one, I look at it this way, if I want a sliide, I'll go to the waterparks.h

[CarolAnnC]

I would like to take a moment to remind everyone to please stay on the pool hopping topic, and also a reminder that Personal Attacks will not be tolerated on this board. Thank you! http://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/family/bunny.gif

<font size=4><font color=purple><font face=BrushArt>Carol</font></font></font>
http://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/routemandan/minnie04a.gif

<font color=FF0066><font face=tahoma>Co-Mod - Theme Park Attractions and Strategies Board</font></font>
<font color=purple><font face=tahoma>Co Mod - Cruise Board</font></font>
<font color=FF0066><font face=tahoma>Co-Mod - DVC Board</font><

[Dean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Discussing LiDisney's bad experience and trying to rationalize an excuse for how she was treated is way out of line by both the members of this board and DVC [/quote] I'm not sure I can agree, at least with the treatment on this board. Seems everyone is in agreement that she was treated inappropriately. But since you brought it up, LETS examine the facts.

As I think everyone has stated, this was handled totally inappropriate and LIDisneyFan should not have been singled out nor treated as she apparently was. There are however, two sides to every story. LIDisneyFan didn't follow the currently in place Pool Hopping rules by checking with the front desk or destination resort. We've already heard testimony that the BW pool was officially closed to pool hopping on that day. The fact she's a BW owner has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with this. What's critical is that she is a DVC member staying at another resort on DVC points. Also, as mentioned, there must have been some reason that she was singled out and I don't believe it is because of her DVC bag. I don't know what the reason was and it obviously doesn't warrant treating her in this way, but likely has bearing on why she was approached. Possibilities might include someone overheard them talking about staying at OKW, maybe the kids were being loud, maybe someone felt she took their chair and a host of other possibilities I don't know.

Since we don't know why she was approached, we can't make a judgement as to the reasonableness of the decision. Also, it seems pretty clear that words were exchanged in both directions; since we weren't there and we have no unbiased witnesses, it's hard to make a lot of judgements there either. So without further info or corroboration from another source, all we know is that 1. the CM was unable to prevent this from deteriorating into a scene, 2. she was appropoached and we don't know why, 3. she was pool hopping when BW was closed to pool hopping, 4. being a resort owner has nothing to do with pool hopping unless you're staying at that resort.

Again, not to condone the way she was treated, which was not appropriate. I'm more interested into the specifics and the "why" though I suspect we'll never know more than we do now. If we get lucky, maybe another member was there and just hasn't returned yet and we can get a blow by blow description.

Dean

[Caskbill]

Dean, you are exactly correct with your response. There are two sides to every story and mostly what we are hearing is one side. I'm sure the pool manager (DVC manager) will not be allowed to post his side.

So what we have here is a very unfortunate incident. It happened because of miscommunication both on the part of Disney not making the rules more obvious, and the guest not checking beforehand. I hope that whatever consideration has been offered to LIDisneyFan has settled this 'specific' incident.

Now the question is how do you prevent this from happening again? I believe both DVC management and owners need to have a clear understanding of what rules and procedures are in place.

The main problem is communication, and control. I believe these can be handled:

1. Upon check-in at a DVC resort, the checkin package could include a clear, simple up-to-date sheet showing pool-hopping priviledges currently in effect. It should also list the phone number of every resort where hopping is allowed and have a statement advising to call before going over to ensure that no capacity limits have been reached or are in effect.

2. Your room key card can carry lots of information. They can probably code it to add a 'pool hopping' id.

3. Disney should 'gate' ALL main pools. I believe this could be done tactfully. All gates would have resort key 'swipe' type locks on them to gain access. This then does not require a CM be on duty at all hours. (Which would be costly) The key for a guest staying at any particular resort would always work for the pool gate at <u> that resort </u>. The key of a guest staying at a different resort with hopping priviledges would work at the gate for the resort extending the priviledges when pool hopping is in effect. The code at the gate could be changed quickly when priviledges are suspended due to capacities, etc.

This solves a number of problems:

1. It allows access to the pools only for that resorts' current guests, and others who have pool hopping priviledges to that pool. This then excludes all other WDW guests without hopping priviledges, and all non-WDW guests who stay off-property, and those Florida residents who utilize Disney facilities that they are not entitled to.

2. Once a guest is in a pool area, they can stay. If capacity is reached after they arrive, it affects only those coming after the gate codes were changed.

3. By calling the resort numbers listed, a guest can ensure the pool is open and the gate key will let them in when they arrive at the pool.


On a personal note, in 8-years of DVC membership, I have only pool hopped once, to SAB. To me, pool hopping priviledges is not a big deal. However, I do get upset when I go to my home resort pool and find it full of non-guests. I feel the facilities are there for my use, and not for others staying off-property, in other resorts, or because they happen to live close by!

To me this is similar to the problem with all the Florida residents taking all the parking places at BWV's so they can go to Epcot without paying a parking fee. There have been plenty of past threads on this topic before.

Just my 2-cents worth

Caskbill

[Crissup]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>CaptainMidnight Wrote:
......Perhaps the CM could be required to where some kind of letter like an "R" so we would all know they were rude...... I'm trying to think of a color for the letter that would help convey the transgression........[/quote]

ROTFL!!!!! ...and you will wear that humiliation until your moral improves!! :D ;)

John M. Crissup
http://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/crissup/comp14.gif
crissup@disneyfan.com
Crissup's Web Site (http://www.crissup.org/)

[CarolA]

As I read through this, I noticed two things. You should ALWAYS read everything prior to signing the contract! Anything not in writing is NOT guaranteed. Pool hopping is NOT in the contract. Also, I strongly disagree with the theory that if I am a BWV member staying at All Stars I get to use the BWV pool. I have never heard that before and it really makes no sense. Your points pay for the services for x nights. If you use stay at Disney more nights than you have points you have to buy those services, you don't still get them.

Personally if I was Disney and had to put up with all the mess pool hopping causes, I would just cancel it. You will notice that there is no pool hopping at AKL. This may very well be the wave of the future.

CarolA

[CaptainMidnight]

>"I strongly disagree with the theory that if I
>am a BWV member staying at All Stars I get to
>use the BWV pool."

I Agree. I'll have to read more closely, if anyone is saying that they expect pool hopping at a time when they are not staying at a DVC resort as DVC members then they are wrong to make that assumption. I agree with your statement above. The only grey area for me is a DVC member staying at a DVC resort but staying on a cash paying night (because they didn't have enough points to cover all nights and needed to add one or two, etc.). But, DVC ownership is not an open invitation to use pools anytime while on grounds regardless of ownership.

I guess I also have to applaud Disney for beginning to police its pools. It is absurd that outside people who are not guests at DVC resorts should be using the pools.

That takes valuable pool room away that could be used for some people who may need to have five family members in a 4 person studio one bedroom.

I am concerned that continuing problems with pool hopping that are not addressed in a rational means, certainly by better communication on Disney's and CM's part and non-hysterics on members part (not finger pointing to any previous posts here) will result in a change of the rules to no pool hopping just to make things easier. I think we are all aware that Easter and Christmas vacation time is a time where pool hopping is more likely to be restricted. A few abusers may spoil it for all of us.

It is so nice to have the privledge of visiting another resort while legitimately staying as a DVC member for an activity other than just eating and looking. I have such wonderful memories of being 16 at the Contemporary pool and with my bride at the Grand Floridian. It is wonderful to share those stories with my children for swimming visits.

I also agree that if you are staying at another resort on points, BW ownership really doesn't have anything to do with it unless you are staying at BW.

But these non-resort staying guests using the pools need to be criminally prosecuted and permanently banned from WDW.

[This message was edited by CaptainMidnight on 04-15-01 at 05:42 PM.]

[Dizpro]

How could Disney "permantly ban" some one from WDW?????Brand them with an "X" through the Mickey symbol placed on their forehead???? :D :rolleyes:

[BobH]

Sorry Norm. I truly did not wish to offend anyone. I voiced my opinion a little too strongly after reading a few of the posts that sounded as if they were criticizing LIDisneyfan for being upset at an occurence that would dissapoint anyone that was trying to enjoy their vacation.

[nuthut]

If the person was not staying at the Boardwalk resort and they were swimming in the pool without permission then they were doing the same as shoplifting. (Taking something without paying.) The DVC member is only an owner paying dues when they are registered as a guest on points. When they were asked to leave, they need to leave because WDW is private property and Disney can control who does what including a total ban of any person who will not follow the rules they see fit to lay down.

[CaptainMidnight]

>How could Disney "permantly ban" some one from >WDW?????Brand them with an "X" through the Mickey >symbol placed on their forehead????

Ya, your right.... criminal prosecution would have to do.

[This message was edited by CaptainMidnight on 04-15-01 at 08:26 PM.]

[Lisa P.]

I agree with the posts by Dean and CarolA. It does sound as if LilDisney was treated very poorly. I would have been terribly embarrassed too and it would have been all the worse for having my children see it. Much more tact would have been appropriate. LilDisney's perception that owning at BWV somehow gave her family an exception to a pool-hopping restriction at BWV that day may have set off the Rec Mgr. The bottom line is that they still ought to have used more tact and every attempt to speak with her out of earshot of others. I'm glad that it seems someone has made an effort to smooth things out for LilDisney.

A couple of questions:
How can we know that others were not also asked to leave, after her family left? Perhaps, there was a more extensive sweep in asking for ID's. I would hope so. She said others quickly hopped into her family's chairs, which suggests that perhaps the BWV pool area was indeed rather crowded.

If you all are not satisfied that the current communication regarding this privilege is sufficient, what would be a reasonable solution, from the management perspective?
--- Fencing in all pools is expensive and unattractive.
--- Staffing entries with Resort ID checkers is expensive.
--- Having every DVC resort front desk call every other resort for an update every day is time-consuming, for the sake of a handful of pool-hopping DVC'ers.
--- Asking other resorts to report their pool-hopping status daily to every DVC resort is unreasonable (they don't answer to DVC).
--- Pool-hopping is nearly always available year-round, only necessitating minor, occasional changes.

My suggestion? Have a "pool-hopping status" option on the Member Services phone menu (where you press "3" to make reservations, press "5" for example). Set it up so that each WDW resort desk may leave a message to be played on a separate sub-menu # for their own resort. Members could call Member Services and listen to the message left for the resort they planned to visit and if there were ever a problem, they could ask the CM to go ahead and listen to the taped message they'd heard earlier that day. Even DVC front desk CM's could easily call this number to check for guests.

Most resorts would always have a basic message, like "DVC Members staying at a WDW DVC resort on DVC points are welcome to pool-hop today and tomorrow, here at the Polynesian Resort! Aloha!" Resorts would only need to update their message when there was a change in pool-hopping status.

The instructions for making this call to Member Services could be printed up and given to DVC Members at check-in. It could also be printed in the new Vacation Magic. Any thoughts?

[CarolMN]

Lisa P -

I agree that fences and resort card swipes are expensive and could end up being "unsightly".

As far as communications go, I agree that some type of "voice mail" system that members could call for current info would do the trick without a lot of additional cost. After all, Disney already has voice mail systems in place.

As far as controlling pool access, I personally like the waterproof hand stamp idea that someone mentioned earlier. When the pool is too crowded and ID checks are necessary, the CM can "stamp" those who show/have the appropriate ID. Since the pool snack bars are definitely open during "crowded times", perhaps they too could have access to the "Stamp of the Day", and help with access control. It should be easy enough for CM's to make a polite announcement asking all those without hand stamps to leave due to overcrowding (or get a stamp if they have proper ID). A CM could also ask to see someone's stamp and either give a person a stamp if they had proper ID or quietly explain and ask them to leave. I don't think this method would be either tough to use or expensive to implement. It would also allow a CM to discreetly "make an exception" to the rules if the circumstances so warranted. A stamp system is relatively inexpensive and would only be needed on days the pool is expected to be "too crowded".

What do you all think? Other positive ideas for solving the "problem" ???

[DebbieB]

I agree that having the DVC resorts call all the other Disney resorts would be time consuming. It would make more sense that if pool hopping would not be permitted that day/week, that the resort doing the exception call the 3 DVC resorts. The DVC resorts seem to do a good job of getting a Voice Mail out to all members reminding them of the weekly DVC member meeting (it always makes me nervous when I come back to the room and see that light flashing, I first think there's an emergency at home), they could use the same system to VM members about the pool hopping. The central number idea is a good one too. This ban on pool hopping is an exception during very busy times, so I'm sure they see it coming rather than it being a surprise one day and should be ready for it and get the word out.

[cramam]

Just returned today and agree with previous posts of most regarding the mishandling of the this matter. To throw another curve into the discussion I went to the front desk Thurs at OKW to ask if pool hopping was available to the POLY( I was under the impression it was where I was supposed to check). The CM called and said the POLY was sold out but pool hopping was not restricted. Off we went, but at the guard shack we were stopped and told that they had just been issued a memo stating that pool hoppers were not to use their own transport but had to use WDW transportation. I told her I was unaware of this policy and she let me park anyway. Remainder of visit was without incident. The new POLY pool is very nice btw. Has anyone heard this one.

[MaryAnnDVC]

Well, that should discourage pool hopping...having to use Disney transportation. I'm certainly not about to spend my time waiting for buses and transfers to check out a pool. :( :rolleyes:

[normr]

I just wondered why you stated we were all way out of line, in our discussion?

We all basically agree that even if pool hopping was not in effect at BW that day, that the BW manager should have handled the situation in a more Disney way instead of tossing the poor lady and her kids off the property.

Weren't we told in the past to contact the front desk of the resort we are staying at what the pool hopping situation is.

It's very easy for one resort to e-mail or call the other and post this info.t

[PamOKW]

MaryAnn I guess we need to get it clarified but I think pool hopping by Disney transportation is for when the resorts are full. You can use the pool but not take up parking (or use the pool hopping excuse to park at the Poly and head to the parks).

[LIDisneyFan]

Hi all,

To straighten a few things out, let me detail (as a few of you have asked) what happened.

First, I am male (everyone is assuming female - don't know why, just thought I'd start out with something a bit light)

Second, there was no 'scene'. My embarrassment came from being asked to leave. In front of my children. In front of other guests who I had been having conversations with during the day. My children being asked to leave friends they had been playing with.

Third, the CM was not rude. He has polite. I never said anything about rudeness or politeness. He 'offered' us an extra half hour- remember? I felt that was kind of insulting and missing the point, but I think he was being sincere. Point is that once we were there, we should not have been asked to leave.

Fourth - we followed the policy posted on the web site (the excerpt of which I put in a previous post). It specifically mentioned SAB and calling that resort - no others

Fifth - I know they didn't check others because we waited after leaving our seats to see if those people were checked. They were not. The CM left the area. We waited while we decided who we should speak to.

Sixth - We were not noisy, rude, have wild children, etc. We did not make a secret that we were staying at OKW, but it even appeared that the CM looked at our DVC bag (strangly the only one out that day) - but there were even chairs available (not a lot) and we only had one pool chair, so I can't imaging anyone asked to have us leave to get a chair. The only other way they could have known is that at the snack bar they had my resort ID (yellow) and a whole bunch of blue ones. Are the ID's for OKW a different color than BW? It happened right after I settled my bill - maybe that's how I was targeted?

Seventh - My issue is threefold. 1) I followed the rules Disney posted (read the website now) and was asked to leave MID-DAY. 2) My salesrep answered a very clear and specific question on pool hopping with a very clear and direct answer about it's availability while signing my contract, and 3) there were other non-resort guests at the pool. Also, as I have indicated, one guest (cash) told me they had 7 people in a 1 bedroom (I was 'selling' on her buying DVC, and mentioned the 4 in a 1 BR rule and she told me they had 7, each with their own resort ID card) who were using the pool - taking up just as many 'extra' spaces as a dues paying, BW owner (yes, I realize that does no entitle me to use this pool as defined by the contract, but not as defined by my salesperson)

So, that's it. I chose to leave quietly rather than cause a scene. I refuse to sink to the level of causing a scene and further embarrassing myself or my family.

And I refuse to sit quietly becuase I'm afraid Disney will take away pool hopping like a parent discipling a child. That would 'taint' the DVC experience more than anything else, since we all signed over all of our rights when we signed our contracts.

My main concern, as been expressed here many times on several issues (this one, 5 in a 1 BR, using the pool towels in your room, etc. etc. etc.), is that Disney's salespeople feel they can say anything to get you to sign, then not have to deliver. I doubt anyone read the entire 100 page + offering document during their contract signing - if they did, great. But I was not about to hire a real estate attorney familiar with Florida real peoperty law to advise me on a timeshare purchase. Yes, I will abide by whatever the rules are, but Disney must be acountable for the answers given by the sales staff. I want to hear from them how they plan on treating a member who was lied to.

Period.

[This message was edited by LIDisneyFan on 04-16-01 at 11:18 AM.]

[ez]

Thank you for your update. I keep checking back on this post as it is a subject that interests almost all of us. You clarified a lot of details many were speculating about. It would be my guess that your bill at the pool bar might have something to do with it...maybe those were the folks who ratted you out!

[Dean]

LIDisneyFan, thanks for clarifying a few questions some of us had. It definitely puts the CM in a better light than we had previously assumed. I apologize for the assumption of gender on my part, no insult intended. I'd like to discuss further a couple of points in your last post.

I've reread the post on the member website and it is consistent with the previously stated policy. I don't recall it stated as a policy in the member guidebook but haven't looked.<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> News Flash

Due to the high occupancy that is expected in early April, DVC Members will not be permitted to use the pool at Disney's Yacht and Beach Club Resort on certain dates. The dates that have been identified so far are April 1-15, 2001, but additional dates may be included. Please check with the resort front desk regarding pool availability prior to going over to the resort. [/quote]I don't believe it is a true statement of policy as stated, only a specific information that relates to a specific pool, SAB. It further directs you to check with the front desk, which is the official policy as previously stated in the VM.

It sounds like you were in violation of the current policy and they nicely and quietly asked you to leave. Whether it was appropriate at that point to do so is another long discussion.

When I listed things that might have happened to cause them to single you out, it was only a partial list and in no way implying you or your family were guilty of any of those things, I was simply listing some of the things that could have lead to that point. I still suspect there must have been some reason they singled you out and I doubt it was you paying the bill, but who knows.

As to holding DVC accountable for things that were said or implied in the sales negotiations, it would be difficult to do. You'd need to be able to prove it was done either in writing, recorded or an independent witness or have the salesman admit he implied it was guaranteed or contractual. That's not to say it's impossible to do so, just difficult. I am always amazed at how gullible DVC members can be sometimes. How about buying into a "Club" which then goes bankrupt in a few years. What about promising you can exchange to anywhere in the world at any time, just look in the book. Then there are bonus weeks and cheap internal trading, but they forget to tell you it will go away when the resort starts to sell out since it's on a space available basis. Or maybe buying units that no longer exist and you have no recourse because it's outside the US. Royal Sunset in Cancun has immensely oversold and no one can get reservations. Or how about being locked up in a room for 6 hours and only being let out if you sign. I KNOW, IT'S DISNEY but the point is this is still a TIMESHARE purchase and ANY claims made by anyone that is not in writing should be discounted and even if in writing, taken with a grain of salt. Rich said that timeshares sales people were below used car salespeople and though I wouldn't put DVC people nearly that low, the principal is a sound one.

Again, I'm sorry you were singled out and asked to leave, seems a bit much. I'd love to know with reasonable certainly the reason you were. Let us know if you hear anything else that would shed more light on this subject.

Dean

[LIDisneyFan]

Dean,

The quote you cut specifically refers to SAB, and dates which may be added to THAT pool. It directs you to call the front desk regarding this situation, which is the closeure of the Y&B pool. It mentioneds NOWHERE about any other pool. If you still feel that is a violation of the policy, fine. I feel that I followed what I was told to do. Again, I had not yet received my issue of VM when I left on this vacation.

As expected, after speaking with the Director of Sales, I was told that anything in writing supercedes anything told verbally. Since the salesperson denies ever having said this, there is nothing he can do. Exactly as I expected, but I felt is was important to take Disney to task for misrepresenting imformation at the time of sale. Basically, you can trust nothing you were told by a salesperson at Disney. I know that to be basically true as a point of law (although verbal representations are as binding as written, they are useless to try to prove), it's just unfortunate that it applies to this experience.

I am not naive - however, when asking a specific questions, I expect an honest, direct answer. I now know that I cannot expect this, and will make any further purchases at Disney accordingly.

Think carefully before deciding where to buy your next 100 point add-on, because that property and your original one may someday not be exchangeable. It's in the contract you signed.

Now, do I think this will happen? No. But then again, I didn't think what happened to me would either.

I will not be posting further on this subject.

[KNWVIKING]

You made mention twice about the CM noticing your DVC bag. At a DVC resort, shouldn't that be normal ? Maybe someone else asked that,I haven't read all the post. Also, and I don't know why, I assumed you were a female too. Strange the way we make assumptions.

[Werner Weiss]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>News Flash

Due to the high occupancy that is expected in early April, DVC Members will not be permitted to use the pool at Disney's Yacht and Beach Club Resort on certain dates. The dates that have been identified so far are April 1-15, 2001, but additional dates may be included. Please check with the resort front desk regarding pool availability prior to going over to the resort.[/quote]
A resonable person could read that that statement as DVC's pool policy for this season -- especially a relatively new DVC member. It's easy to read it as saying, "Pool Hopping will be restricted only at Disney's Yacht and Beach Club Resort, at least from April 1-15, 2001 -- and possibly more days, so check with the front desk if you're planning to pool hop to the Yacht and Beach Club."

Dean wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't believe it is a true statement of policy as stated, only a specific information that relates to a specific pool, SAB. It further directs you to check with the front desk, which is the official policy as previously stated in the VM.[/quote]
The statement only directs you to check with the front desk if you're "going over to the resort" -- with the resort just having been defined as "Disney's Yacht and Beach Club Resort."

In hindsight -- especially now that we know that the pool at BWV was officially restricted last week -- we all know that the statement only applies to Disney's Yacht and Beach Club Resort.

But a reasonable person could interpret the News Flash as DVC's pool hopping rules for this Spring. I'm sure LIDisneyFan wishes the wording had been less ambiguous.

Just think how much clearer it would be if the policy were stated as:<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>News Flash

Due to the high occupancy that is expected in early April, DVC Members will not be permitted to use the pool at Disney's Yacht and Beach Club Resort on certain dates. The dates that have been identified so far are April 1-15, 2001, but additional dates and additional resorts may be included. Please check with the resort front desk regarding pool availability prior to using the pool at any resort other than the DVC resort where you are staying.[/quote]
Even my edited version above is still ambiguous as to whether to call the front desk of the resort where you are staying or where you want to use the pool.

-----
Werner Weiss, Curator of Yesterland (http://www.yesterland.com), featuring discontinued Disneyland attractions

[This message was edited by Werner Weiss on 04-16-01 at 12:48 PM.]

[David]

They would have had to call security to make me leave!

[Caskbill]

LIDisneyFan:
I too thought you were female and don't know why, maybe just following suit from other posters. But I did notice one thing in my personal interpretation of your username. In my mind, I was seeing Lil'DisneyFan somehow (which may sound somewhat feminine) as opposed to LongIslandDisneyFan which I believe is your intent. Interesting how the mind works? :rolleyes:

My apologies for this error. (Have you since thought about adding your gender in your profile?) :D

There's no easy answer to what happened to you as it was just too grey of an area. You were right, and Disney was right. Under the wording of the policy as published, the rule is not clear. It should be more as Werner suggests.

And you have absolutely legitimate complaints on your other issues, and it sounds especially so with your Sales Rep.

May all your future DVC trips truly be Disney magic to be rememberd :), and that this incident can be resolved fairly for you, and then finally forgotten. ( :mad: --> :( --> <IMG WIDTH="15" HEIGHT="15" SRC="/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif" alt="razz"> --> <IMG SRC="/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif" alt="confused"> --> ;) --> :) --> :cool: )


Caskbill

[pax_65]

I've read through this entire thread... one thing I've noticed is a true willingness on everyone's part to follow the pool-hopping rules. In fact, most members are willing to jump through hoops to take advantage of this member privilege.

So what are the rules? They seem to keep changing. Disney needs to set the rules, stick to them, and enforce them fairly.

Then, we all need to follow them... and as I've said, I don't think that will be a problem.

Jon
Going in 3 DAYS!!!

[Zimbubba]

I agree with a previous poster...If asked to leave we can always say No! Also, anything a sales rep tells us does not hold up anywhere...only what is in writing.

[AZKathy]

I have been following this thread since the beginning and I just wanted to add that it has been a very educating thread for me and I very much appreciate all that has been said!

See, we are going in June and plan on pool hopping this time around for the first time and now will know how to do it properly without causing the embarrassment for me and my family that LIDisFan experienced!! Thanks again, fellow DVCers! :D

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/aniportrait.gif
<font color=fuchsia>DVC/OKW '97</font>
<font color=fuchsia>OKW June5-8; VB June 8-11; OKW June 11-20, 2001</font>

[Dean]

LIDisneyFan, the policy is unclear. It was stated in a VM in 1998 and is not in our member guidelines or the POS, unfortunately. The previously written policy in the VM was not specific to SAB and directed one to call the front desk to check before heading over. I can see how someone could take what is on the Website as the policy and assume everything else was fair game. I had no intention of saying you intentionally violated the policy, only that you didn't follow it to the letter as "I" understand it.

I had this am off so I decided to call DVC MS this morning, they were as vague as the "policy" is to us. They said it's not written down for them either. I was told that it was up to the resort which could make a decision minute by minute based on pool occupancy. The lady was unaware of recent closures except SAB. My response was that if I checked and they closed it while I was enroute, that would be pretty low. The lady agreed.

One thing to remember is that if they firm up the policy, it might not be to the members advantage. One should never trust what one is told by a timeshare sales person if it's not in writing, Disney, Marriott or otherwise. And yes I read the entire POS before I signed.

Again sorry things didn't work out, I wouldn't let it sour you on the entire system. I remember going through a similar issue as I was told that the free passes were good the day of arival and the day of departure. Since I ended up buying resale, not much I could say but it did dampen my spirits for a time.

Dean

[normr]

Set up a TV channel for DVC resort info including pool hopping, that way, we can flip on the TV and check out the statuso

[mjackson]

Sorry about your situation. Can't believe that happened to you and your family. fight fight fight

[SwampFox]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If I was ever told to leave a Member resort facility listed in the purchase documents I would sue, big time, the embarrassment factor alone is too horrendous to contemplate. [/quote]

So, you feel that members are entitled to use any/all DVC resort facilities whenever they choose- even if they are not a guest staying at that resort? That's an interesting interpetation of the contract!
Good luck with your lawsuit.

[Joeblack]

Wow. That is a great twist to the whole story UKEagle. Very interesting point.

You quote (from the legal documents I presume): "The recreational and other commonly used facilities currently available for use through the Club will be used by Club Members, their guests, exchangers and renters"

Club Members staying on points are not mentioned although that seems to have always been the rule.

From that, I understand tha, as a DVC member I can use the pool at my home resort whether I am staying at the resort or not.

I don't have the documents at hand but, is there something that mentions using the pool in another DVC resort (Like LiDisney did?). If there is nothing..then I guess you are right..you would win a lawsuit hands down.

[KNWVIKING]

I think I'm going to lamenate certain pages of my contract and carry them with me from pool to pool. By the time the poor CM gets done trying to interprete them the sun will probably have gone down and I'd be long gone.

[Werner Weiss]

The key phrase is "for use through the Club."

"The Club" is the mechanism through which we use our deeded Ownership Interest. So we would only have access to the pools and other "recreational and other commonly used facilities" while staying on points -- just as we don't have access to condos unless we're staying on points.

Of course, UK Eagle is reading the words differently. Perhaps UK Eagle is correct and I'm mistaken. But perhaps UK Eagle is mistaken.

-----
Werner Weiss, Curator of Yesterland (http://www.yesterland.com), featuring discontinued Disneyland attractions

[Jimbo]

By any interpretation, though, the two incidents posted here are disturbing. Throwing members out of the pool area of a DVC resort is a pretty extreme measure. And in both cases, the members were staying at a different DVC resort on points. It seems to me that BWV needs to review their policy on this, because it's certainly not obvious reading the rules that they had right to eject these people.

Is this one of the problems that exist when you combine a DVC resort with an existing hotel? Maybe they feel that they need to "protect" BWI guests rights.

[Joeblack]

UK Eagle:

I am not in the least skeptical about your your point. I am actually quite happy for such a competent and clear interpretation. Maybe most of us did not bother to go through the papers as thoroughly as you did. What you point out sounds totally right and maybe LiDisneyFan and Scarlet should sue Disney for emotional damage and not delivering on a signed contract.

A lot has been said on this debate, but not until UK Eagle's thread, have I seen any possibility of a solution. I can't wait for other people's input into this matter in view of this new interpretation.

Thanks again UK Eagle. Maybe you should start a new thread since your clarification is of outmost importance to anyone who cares about pool hopping.

[WebmasterDoc]

In spite of the interpretation offered by UKEagle, here are a couple of other sections to consider. (I am NOT an attorney...nor do I play one on TV.)

From my POS (dated 7/95), Section III, 5,a.,(1),(b)- under DVC Resort Restrictions: "For specific restrictions on the use of the Vacation Homes and facilities of the DVC Resorts, Club Members should refer to the Condominium Rules and Regulations promulgated by the board of directors of each Association, ..."

From the Buena Vista Trading Company Disclosure Document for Disney Vacation Club, Section VII., 7.5 Amendment: "BVTC in its sole discretion may change the terms and conditions of this Disclosure Document and the rules and regulations set forth herein. These changes may affect a Club Member's right to use, exchange and rent the Club Member's Ownership Interest and impose obligations upon the use and enjoyment of his or her Ownership Interest and the appurtenant Club Membership. Such changes may be made by BVTC without the consent of any Club Member and may adversely affect a Club Member's rights and benefits and increase the Club Member's costs of ownership."

It sounds to me as though each resort may create it's own rules and regulations, which could even affect the use of facilities.

[LisaR]

Maybe I am missing something here but I think the point is the way these people have been treated - or mistreated! The documents we all signed are hard to understand and seem to have room for different interpretation. If pool hopping is restricted - fine. If it is removed altogether - oh well, it is Disneys right to do that. However, treat EVERYONE with respect and do it fairly. When CM randomly select people to kick out, I object. That seems to be what happened here.

Lisa

[CaptainMidnight]

>"If I was ever told to leave a Member resort
>facility listed in the purchase documents I would
>sue, big time, the embarrassment factor alone is
>too horrendous to contemplte. "

So would the legal fees and cost of the lawsuit against DVC come out of our member dues?

I'm sure we would loose the pool hopping priveledges to avoid such future lawsuits and susequent legal costs.

...ya...great idea......

[This message was edited by CaptainMidnight on 04-17-01 at 10:45 PM.]

[Joeblack]

UK Eagle: That is just great. Withdrawing from a discussion just because another opinion comes up, no matter how much you disagree with it is not really a sign of a strong "link", is it?

Hope you keep giving your valuable input, UK Eagle.

Captain Midnight: You have a valid point. However, I believe our voices should be heard when we are faced with an abuse like LiDisneyFan or Scarlet did. Shutting up and accepting what we consider an abuse just because we are afraid we will be hit back is not alright. At least I don't think so.

[This message was edited by Joeblack on 04-18-01 at 11:15 AM.]

[CarolAnnC]

This is a reminder that we are discussing Pool Hopping on this thread. Personal attacks and/or insults, will not be tolerated. Thank you all for your cooperation.

<font size=4><font color=purple><font face=BrushArt>Carol</font></font></font>
http://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/routemandan/minnie04a.gif

<font color=FF0066><font face=tahoma>Co-Mod - Theme Park Attractions and Strategies Board</font></font>
<font color=purple><font face=tahoma>Co Mod - Cruise Board</font></font>
<font color=FF0066><font face=tahoma>Co-Mod - DVC Board</font><

[WebmasterDoc]

Just curious, UK Eagle, why the Disney lawyers would have any reason to even discuss this with you (let alone "debate" it) unless you had some legal action against DVC? I can't imagine the lawyers joining in such a "debate" without a need.

Please elucidate!

[Joeblack]

Thanks UK Eagle. Your point has always been clear to me. I am more than satisfied with your post, and I am glad you took the time to clarify everything.

On the Debate with DVC lawyers thing. How did you manage to talk to them when you could not secure a points reservation? Did MS transfer you there?

[This message was edited by Joeblack on 04-18-01 at 05:00 PM.]

[PKK/MJK]

I appreciate your input too, UKEAGLE. Your explanation is very clear, and it makes a LOT of sense. It had never occurred to me that technically we only "pool-hop" when we go to other resorts outside of the DVC. Interesting analysis. Thanks for your time.

Phil and Mary Jo
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/dvclogo.gif
WDW--82,83,85,87,89,93,95,96, 97,98,99,00,01
DVC/OKW

[Disneyfrek]

As I recall, we all had our hands stamped to use the pool at Luna Park as well as SAB. We had to show resort id's (OKW) and were on our way. This was last July and I was expecting to do the same this coming July. Now I'm beginning to think the idea of laminating is a pretty good one.... ;)

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vltdisney/spinheadblack.gif

[KKlecknerWray]

It's nice to see that there are people out there who are offended by mistreatment by CM's! The responses to LIDisneyfan have provided very different perspectives than Scarlett's thread on pool-hopping!

The anti-DVC sentiment on the responses to Scarlett's post really (as Donald would say) "ruffled my feathers"!!!

Kara

http://www.russellwray.com/kara/donald.gif