William Beem's Photo Problems at WDW

[pgowder]

Just read the latest blog post from Mr. Beem. Please take a look.

http://williambeem.com/2010/05/10/disney-responds-to-my-letter/

I've just written a response. If any of you also agree that this guy has blown this out of proportion, back me (and WDW) up!

The last thing I want to see is a bunch of pissed off security guards cracking down on everyone with a tripod!

[pgowder]

Apparently my comment is awaiting moderation. I'm interested to see if he'll approve it!

But here is is:


We visit WDW often, and I’ve taken literally hundreds of photos in the parks. I’ve never had any problems at WDW while taking photos.

Here are photos from a recent trip:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/96077153@N00/sets/72157622377385256/

I published over 900 on Flickr from that trip! Never was approached by anyone! Even did several HDR photos on that trip!

There are even groups that have photo meets there!
http://www.themagicinpixels.com/index.php/Table/Pixelmania/

Thousands of photos published and no one else has had an issue!

Remember that all of WDW is PRIVATE property. They can set any policy they want. And they don’t have to share those policies with us!

Ever tried to take a photo in a mall? Most mall don’t even allow photos. We as photographer are lucky that Disney not only allows us to take photos there, but allows us to publish them on websites and blogs!

I don’t agree with all of their policies, but I don’t get the right to argue them or try to change them. I just recently went to Disney on Ice and was stopped when trying to take in my 24-70mm. Their policy was that lenses bigger than your hand were not allowed. After discussing it with them, I was allowed to carry it in.

Arguing with security and refusing a request is always going to cause problems! Lots of places are now implementing anti-photographer policies. But causing issues like this will NOT get them changed. You’re just going to cause even stricter policies.

While you are on private property you can’t refuse a request of security! They have the right to ask anyone for ID and question them. I’m sure if someone without a camera had stood in that same spot for a long time, they would have been questioned too!

Why in the world would you think that they would leave you alone after you refused their request for ID? At that point you are officially a trouble maker to them!

You created your own mountain out of this mole hill! Show your ID, comply with their requests and keep on shooting! (Your comment is awaiting moderation)

[LisaCat]

Your comment is up, and he has already responded to it

[WDWFigment]

I don't think it's worth taking the time to respond to him (and I'm in the midst of finals, so I don't have the time), but his contention that Disney should make guests aware of policies ahead of time, rather than ex post facto, is flawed. In the realm of security (which is what Disney, rightfully or wrongfully, is invoking here), it's not always pragmatic to enumerate or clearly articulate policy points. Doing so makes them more susceptible to circumvention.

I would just ignore him. Aside from this Disney fiasco, his blog doesn't seem that popular. He clearly has a few new 'followers' from the Disney community, which I think might do a disservice to anyone here's 'goal' of his views being ignored. The less attention we pay to him, the more likely is whining will die a natural death by virtue of its own exposure, or lack thereof.

[zackiedawg]

I agree...it just doesn't seem worth the effort to respond to his blog - he's taken a stance, and seems like he's built himself a big thick wall to stand behind and defend his position to the end. No amount of reason will get through at this point - if you make a comment contrary to his position, then you either 'don't get it' or 'are taking Disney's side against him'.

Personally, I think that as with anything, there are two sides to the story and following his blog you're getting one of them. I can have an opinion about how his situation came to pass, but I don't have the facts as I wasn't there...so no use taking a big official stand on his blog about it. My opinion is - of course his responses, attitude, demeanor, body language, temper, or any number of other factors had something to do with the issue. I base my opinion on the fact that there are quite literally THOUSANDS of photographers, both more professional and less professional than he, who routinely photograph throughout Disney grounds including Downtoan Disney who have not had any issues with Disney or security. Many others have hauled tripods, big lenses, multiple bodies, etc and not been 'harassed'. For the rare few that may have been questioned by security, they responded in such a way or offered simple compliance in such a respectful manner that security let them proceed with no further restriction or questions. I also base my opinion on the fact that I live close to Disney, and spend much time each year photographing throughout the properties - I carry tripods, a bag of 6+ lenses, usually 2 cameras, a huge 500mm lens, take tripod shots during the day with ND filters, and often linger for multiple shots from various angles. I do this 30-40 days a year, and with cameras for the past 10+ years. I've never had any experience like what Mr. Beem describes...and in fact, have only ever been asked once by security if I was taking photos in a professional capacity - to which a simple and courteous 'no' ended the interaction.

But once someone takes a stand like he has, and makes such a public and constant fuss over it, there is no reasoning left - they believe what they believe, are on a mission that they feel imperitive to succeed, and will continue until triumphant or until they fall like Custer. Those that wish to believe can believe, and avoid Disney at all costs for fear of a police-state crackdown on photographers. The rest of us will just continue to take our photos and enjoy Disney as we always have, and avoid conflict and frustration by simply interacting with Disney employees or security in a respectful and friendly manner, without challenge or umbrage.

[Chikabowa]

In the realm of security (which is what Disney, rightfully or wrongfully, is invoking here), it's not always pragmatic to enumerate or clearly articulate policy points. Doing so makes them more susceptible to circumvention.


Could not have said it better!

[MICKEY88]

I don't think it's worth taking the time to respond to him (and I'm in the midst of finals, so I don't have the time), but his contention that Disney should make guests aware of policies ahead of time, rather than ex post facto, is flawed. In the realm of security (which is what Disney, rightfully or wrongfully, is invoking here), it's not always pragmatic to enumerate or clearly articulate policy points. Doing so makes them more susceptible to circumvention.

.

Hmm sounding like an attorney...:thumbsup2:thumbsup2

I was thinking of so many things they would have to list, which should be common sense issues..

such as
Do Not jump onto the monorail tracks to try and take a picture as the monorail approaches you..

Do Not Exit your Safari ride vehicle in order to get a closeup photo of the Lions..

[photo_chick]

Does it really matter what Mr. Beem and his obviously disproportionately inflated ego spout off about? He seems to have a serious victim complex.

I feel a little bad for the yutz becasue he seems to feel so wronged, but why waste time shouting when he will never actually listen to you. If he'd actually stop playing the victim and take advice from others on how to prevent this from happening again, I might feel differently. But he's proven he won't with an excuse and reason for everything.


I'm going in August and I fully intend to find and photograph Disney Don. Maybe I'll get him to pose holding my ID. :hyper:

[MICKEY88]

Does it really matter what Mr. Beem and his obviously disproportionately inflated ego spout off about? He seems to have a serious victim complex.

I feel a little bad for the yutz becasue he seems to feel so wronged, but why waste time shouting when he will never actually listen to you. If he'd actually stop playing the victim and take advice from others on how to prevent this from happening again, I might feel differently. But he's proven he won't with an excuse and reason for everything.


I'm going in August and I fully intend to find and photograph Disney Don. Maybe I'll get him to pose holding my ID. :hyper:

That would be the first thing I would do if I were headed there anytime soon, however if Disney Don is aware of the reason, He would be wise to not pose for such a picture..

[pgowder]

Thanks everyone! I never should have responded in the first place. But it just hit me wrong this morning.

I just don't to ever see Disney start cracking down on tripods and photographers!

[KramBerries]

I've got to take Mr. Bean's side on this one. His show is just so darned funny and I can totally see why his crazy antics would get a security guard worked up.

The fact is that, as photographers, we have to take a stand. Being overweight and having no social skills is no reason for us to get pushed around. If we give in to demands that we show ID to security personnel on private property, we're starting down a slippery slope with an ugly ending. The next thing you know, cast members will be demanding to chimp shots we take of them. Pretty soon we'll be stuck doing The Mouse's laundry as a condition of bringing a point and shoot into the park. It starts with the innocent sounding "Patriot Act" and it ends with all of us as slaves to guys in polyester uniforms with three letter names. I've seen the movie. You don't want to.

You can save all your lawyer talk about rights and private property. I know my rights. When I pay to go into someplace, I have a right to take pictures unless they told me in advance that I couldn't. That's especially true if they let someone less suspicious than me take pictures. OK, technically Mr. Bean didn't have to pay to get into Downtown Disney, but that's just a technicality. We don't want a bunch of lawyer technicalities ruling our lives.

What do you call 500 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? A good try to plug the Deepwater Horizon well.

OK, I'm not the sharpest spoon in the drawer, but I've learned one thing from listening to President Obama. We need change. Let's start by not letting rent-a-cops tell us what we can do at Disney World. We're guests. They should treat us better.

[KramBerries]

Anyone seen my meds?

[pgowder]

Anyone seen my meds?

:)


I know my rights. When I pay to go into someplace, I have a right to take pictures unless they told me in advance that I couldn't.

I haven't looked at all my travel documents, but I'm betting somewhere on there is the line - All Rights Reserved.

[Shutterbug]

I still stand by my opinion that this a blunder of disney guest relations and a guard with a power trip.

[pgowder]

I still stand by my opinion that this a blunder of disney guest relations and a guard with a power trip.

Probably. But being confrontational and refusing to show ID isn't going to win you any favors!

[ukcatfan]

That William guy is a little bit clueless. I would almost guarantee that he is blacklisted at WDW now. If they ever see him there again, he will immediately asked to leave. Like you said to him, it is ALL private property and they can do whatever they like concerning your access to it.

[Shutterbug]

That William guy is a little bit clueless. I would almost guarantee that he is blacklisted at WDW now. If they ever see him there again, he will immediately asked to leave. Like you said to him, it is ALL private property and they can do whatever they like concerning your access to it.

If that were to be true that would be very poor of Disney with me. Almost like if you are going to openly express how you feel you were treated then we arent going to let you in...so there! You dare complain? then we shall banish you.

Like if I were to complain about how I was treated poorly by a Target employee and then Target saying you arent allowed to shop in our stores anymore.

[ukcatfan]

If that were to be true that would be very poor of Disney with me. Almost like if you are going to openly express how you feel you were treated then we arent going to let you in...so there!


Not "so there!" but more, "We are not going to let you cause us any more frustration and we are losing money on your visits with all the personnel time we already devoted to you." It doesn't matter if the security guard overreacted or not. The simple fact is that they have every right to ask for ID and if you do not provide it, to remove you from the property. If you refuse, you are then going to show your ID to the police and take a nice trip downtown. For this guy to go on with his rant is ridiculous! He IS costing the company money and I guarantee they do not appreciate that. They are better off if he never goes back.

[Shutterbug]

If you refuse, you are then going to show your ID to the police and take a nice trip downtown.


On what grounds? If the police were to arrest him(because that is the only way they could take him away) what would be the charges be?

[ukcatfan]

On what grounds? If the police were to arrest him(because that is the only way they could take him away) what would be the charges be?

Sorry, but duh, trespassing! If you are asked to leave private property and refuse to leave, then you are guilty of trespassing and the owner can prosecute. A company the size of Disney would very likely do that. Every single square inch of WDW is private property and they can make you leave for any reason, even as stupid as wearing white shoes. They have that right. They do not do things like that because they want your money. This guy turned the tide against himself by blogging about it and has now cost them money. I guarantee he is not welcome back. They might let him back on to keep him from starting more trouble, but if they know he is there, they will be watching him for ANY reason to remove him. I have heard it said that Disney knows more about the people that come through their gates than the TSA knows about their passengers, and I believe it.

[Geoff_M]

The funny thing is that Mr. Beem has gotten himself so worked up about this issue that he can't see things that are right under his nose. For example, the "policy" he's fired off a 2nd letter asking for the text of is in the first reply that he received. In case he is lurking here, I'll highlight it as a service to him: Dear Mr. Beem,

Thank you for contacting us regarding the Walt Disney World Resort.

We apologize for your inconvenience during your recent visit to Downtown
Disney. We understand taking photographs is an essential part of
creating lasting memories and encourage our Guests to take photographs
of their vacation. As I am sure you understand, there are occasionally
security matters associated with certain types of photography. In those
instances, our security team is trained to observe and, when
appropriate, engage those guests.

Since the safety and well-being of our Guests are of the utmost
importance to us, this policy has been implemented merely as an added
security measure for all Guests who visit the Walt Disney World Resort.

Thank you for your comments.

Sincerely,

[Name Redacted]
Guest Communication Services
Walt Disney World ResortIn another words, it is Disney's policy to have their security staff engage guests that they suspect of being up to photographic "no good". I don't think this just includes the possibility that they think that the photographer is plotting a crime. I also think that this includes the suspicion that the photographer is engaging in unauthorized commercial or editorial photography. Instead, Beem is fixated on this "they think I'm a terrorist!" meme.

[WVDisGeek]

Just back from a week in Florida (sadly not visiting the parks :sad2:) but we did spend several hours at DTD. I walked around the entire time with my camera around my neck and took multiple pictures. I even made it a point to photogragh the HOB! Granted, I didn't have my tripod with me, but not once did any security staff ask what I was doing. I looked VERY HARD for Disney Don, but the closest I could find was Disney Ken!

I think we should all wish Mr. Beem the best and send him into the cyber world to live out his friendless life in peace. Paying him any more attention just feeds his bruised ego and is not worth the effort.