DisneySeas – Look At Disney Getting It Right

[Another Voice]

That “other” website is running another fantastic pictorial essay of DisneySea in Tokyo. Anyone who is feeling down about the current state of the company should take a look at it to remind you about what Disney can still accomplish when they have good management. The first page can be found at http://www.mouseplanet.com/tokyo/edwards/edwards03.htm .

And to counter the “stupid Japanese spent too much money" spin, the visit documented in the article took place on January 29, 2002. A Tuesday, it was very much the off season in Tokyo. The author describes the weather as “the weather was spectacular – clear and sunny – but always windy and thus always numbingly cold” and the pictures show the guests dressed in full winter clothes. So the day wasn’t your typical busy theme park day.

The guest started lining up TWO HOURS before the gates opened. There’s a picture of the swarm of people waiting to get in. Even the guests at Disney’s Mira Costa Hotel, who can use a special entrance to the park, started lining up ONE HOUR before the park opened. There’s another picture of the line pouring down the hotel’s hallways.

The “rumored” attendance for California Adventure on the same day – 3,500.

[GrammieMame]

It looks fabulous. I'm ready for the next WDW park.

[WDWHound]

I wanna go there so bad its driving me crazy. Unfortunately, It will be couple of years before we can round up the funds.

[manning]

Disney isn't running it. Don't even think they own it. They leased there there name for a percentage of the gate.

[Bstanley]

Those wacky Japanese - who can tell what they'll do?!

I wouldn't be surprised if next they decided that instead of buying that $1000 plane ticket to LA to visit the REAL Disneyland with the exciting new DCA they'll just waste that money at home by staying at the MiraCosta for a week.

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by manning
Disney isn't running it. Don't even think they own it. They leased there there name for a percentage of the gate.

They don't run it, but Disney imagineers most certainly designed it and built it.

[manning]

If Disney imagineers designed and built all the parks, that is the common denominator. Then management must be the problem (USA).

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by manning
If Disney imagineers designed and built all the parks, that is the common denominator. Then management must be the problem (USA).

Yup, I agree. If management had given the imagineers the budget that they had in Tokyo, something very special might have risen from the Disneyland parking lot. What we got instead was only OK.

[Peter Pirate]

Would you guys really WANT to wait two hours in line at a Disney Park before opening and then knowing you'll be doing the same at every attraction inside?

I guess I'm not the Disney fan you guys are because there is NO WAY I would wish that upon myself just to go to an amusement park. Also, since the crowds are so big and the esitmates for seeing everything at TDS is in the multple day range, how good of a value is it? At least at DCA you can seeeverything in a day. Are they discounting prices because it is soooo busy that the guest can't possibly see it all? I think not, yet we always get that same arguement about hour reductions at WDW...

Oh, and while Disney doesn't run TDS thay have very strict (almost ridiculous) say so in presentaton where Disney content is concerned...
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[PKS44]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
Would you guys really WANT to wait two hours in line at a Disney Park before opening and then knowing you'll be doing the same at every attraction inside?

I guess I'm not the Disney fan you guys are because there is NO WAY I would wish that upon myself just to go to an amusement park. Also, since the crowds are so big and the esitmates for seeing everything at TDS is in the multple day range, how good of a value is it? At least at DCA you can seeeverything in a day. Are they discounting prices because it is soooo busy that the guest can't possibly see it all? I think not, yet we always get that same arguement about hour reductions at WDW...

Oh, and while Disney doesn't run TDS thay have very strict (almost ridiculous) say so in presentaton where Disney content is concerned...
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

It is going to get like that restaurant Yogi Berra once spoke about- "Oh, nobody goes there anymore; it's too crowded."

[larry_poppins]

I will be visiting Tokyo Disney in March 2003.
I can't wait! I can handle the two hour lines. I used to wait that long for attractions in Disney's USA parks when the E tickets were new.

Larry

[Peter Pirate]

Yeah, but the two hours are before you even get in! I can't wait to hear some first hand, real people reports though...

:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[PKS44]

Of the Internet posted reports, most have been glowing...there will be a Travel channel show on TDS later this month, I think it is the 19th?

[larry_poppins]

There have been plenty of real people reports on mouseplanet.com. There is a website full of info at jtcent.com
I have friends from the National Fantasy Fan CLub who went last year and are already planning a trip in April 2003 to coincide with Tokyo Disneyland's 20th anniversary. How do they pay for this? Ebay I guess.

Larry

[raidermatt]

Would you guys really WANT to wait two hours in line at a Disney Park before opening and then knowing you'll be doing the same at every attraction inside?

I think this is a problem we would LOVE to have. Because then it would mean Disney understood what its guests want, and we'd be discussing where in the U.S. the next Disney park would be built.

Disney would be jumping at the opportunity to build such a profit engine, and its guests would be eagerly anticipating the next creation, which surely would be built to meet this demand.

AND, since they would now know what their customers want and are more than willing to line up to pay for, they would be modifying the existing parks as well. Making adjustments and additions that would cause attendance to shoot up.

Maybe its just me, but I'd say THAT'S the stuff dreams are made of...

[airlarry!]

Hey, Peter, good to see you around.

I know what you are saying. It is like that 'secret' watching place in EPCOT that now everyone knows about.

We all associate some part of the magic with visions of freedom to walk....nobody wants wall-to-wall people in the sweltering sun.

But that's not the question. You do want a park that everyone else wants, too? I want to visit TDS not because it is popular. It is popular because I want to visit...me and 30,000 other people each and every day of the year. We want to visit it -- because it represents almost all of what we think WDI can bring to the table in a new park.

Remember. Walt may not have wanted to build TDS. It is basically a waterized version of Disneyland. He didn't like to do the same things over and over.

But Walt may have built another park in Tokyo anyway. To finance some pie-in-the-sky project that others would laugh (and one he would probably turn into a successful project anyway). And I know cause Baron has told me so ;) that if Walt was gonna do a second park in Tokyo -- or in Anaheim or Orlando for that matter -- that he would have wanted it to be as good as it could be.

TDS is, from all accounts, that kind of park. Not that park. That kind of park.

[Another Voice]

Well Mr. Pirate, it seems that Pressler and company are doing everything in their powers to make sure your future visits to Disney parks are just as free from those pesky paying customers as possible.

But that doesn't mean that the lines for the rides will be any shorter. At California Adventure the staffing cuts have become so steep that the roller coaster can have over an hour wait when there are less than 10,000 people in the park. 'Soaring' will have 45+ minutes (because they run only one theater). And even the lines at the food facilities are long because so many places have been closed.

Frankly, I'd rather wait two hours to get into a fully functional, fully designed, fully imagined park rather that skip right into a empty parking lot carnival.

[Peter Pirate]

I guess it' just me then, because I would probably quit going to WDW if I could never go without a two hour wait to get in and then 'mad-house' conditions the rest of the ime.

My recent jaunt through central California (that you & Voice were so nice to help with) reminded me that 'real' is still better than 'fake' (1 through Big Sur is just not describable) and I (personally) am just not enough of a people person to accept those crowds under any circumstance. I hope this revelation doesn't hurt my credibility around here...Oh, I forgot, I don't have any..;)
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[stlphil]

quote
_______
If Disney imagineers designed and built all the parks, that is the common denominator. Then management must be the problem (USA).
_______

I not certain of this, but my impression was that imagineering didn't have a lot of input into DCA.
That it was designed and built mainly by the group that does the hotels. If so, then imagineers are not the common denominator.

I agree with your final conclusion, though. :D

[hopemax]

Larry_poppins,

I take it you weren't at this year's NFFC convention? One of the members, tired of hearing, "I'd love to go to Tokyo Disney but it's SO expensive!" gave a seminar. He's also in the process of planning a tour for next year, with the help of a travel agent specializing in Asian travel. The goal is for airfare, shuttle to hotel, hotel 4n/5d with daily breakfast for under $1000 per person. With prices like that, it's no wonder people can go yearly.

That's his #1 tip, find a travel agent who handles trips for Japanese clients to visit Japan. They buy airfare and book hotels in bulk, and can get the best deals.

[Peter Pirate]

Voice, DCA crowds were significant during my stay but Soarin' never had wait times more than 60 minutes and both sides were being run everytime I rode it (4 times)...Screamin had fluctuating lines of 20-50 (never saw the one hour mark).

I'm sorry if I sounded elitist in my remarks, but I truly am not a crowd type person. My sole exception to this rule is WDW where I will do the 'controlled mayhem' that they do so well. Remember I live in a town of 12,000. We have one road in and out, I don't own shoes other than sneakers & flip-flops & I had to buy long pants for my trip out west...So I'm not being snobby, I'm just uncomfortable around lots and lots of people...
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[WDWHound]

Mr Pirate,
I understand your crowd aversion. We were at Disneyland the week after Easter this year. I have never experienced crowds like that before. Fantasy land was so packed, you could not see the street for alll the people. You litterally had to muscle your way through the crowds by pushing and shoving if you wanted to get anywhere. It was horrible. I will never return at that time of year again.

California MisAdventure was another story. The place felt empty. Still, the lines for Soaring were over 2 hours (they were only running one side) and Screamin was over an hour.

[larry_poppins]

Crowds at DCA are deceiving. Remember annual passports give you entrance to DCA for the price of entering Disneyland for a year. So 500,000 annual pass holders get in free. There are many deals for So. Cal residents to get into DCA. Adults get in for $35. Children are free. etc... Then there are the multi day ticktets. VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE PAYING $45 to enter the park. This has been going on practically since day 1. So a lot of people at DCA means a lot of people are enjoying the park for free or little money.

Just some perspective on DCA crowds.

Larry

[erikthewise]

I'm going to wait for Disney to build a US version of Disney Sea at WDW; I think I will live that long. (Hey, I waited 35 years for Lord of the Rings to be made into a decent movie!)

Anyway, it's our turn! Tokyo and Paris just got pretty good new parks, and if one is to believe people on this thread, we get the short straw with DCA.

[Douglas Dubh]

Anyway, it's our turn! Tokyo and Paris just got pretty good new parks, and if one is to believe people on this thread, we get the short straw with DCA.

From what I've seen of the new Paris park, I'd say they got the short straw, not Anaheim.

[King Triton]

DisneySea looks AWESOME!!! Now that's how you do a theme park RIGHT!! This puts DCA to shame!! Why can't WE have DisneySea here in the states??

Check out this website for video clips of the rides at DisneySea

www.barrybedford.com

King Triton:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[DaveO]

Pirate has a very good point.

There has been a lot of negative talk with hours cut in WDW that Disney is charging full price thus less value. This is when most accounts show that actual ride time has increased.

If that is the case in TDS that the lines are so long you can only ride a few attractions are they reducing rates or comping free days?

Then for those of you who say it is supply and demand then you can not fault WDW for doing the same with thier hotels and parks in the 90s during the 'growth' period.

You can not make one argument in the WDW case and not in TDS.

So are the doomsdayers going to now start bashing TDS that it is not a good value and costs too much ......

Just trying to follow the logic trail.

As a side note I would love Disney to keep up a strategy for other companies to pay for the design and implementation of an attraction BUT THEN copy it in the states. I would imagine the cost would be lower due to the design and bugs being worked out. Does anyone know if ODC has exclusive rights to the attractions for any period of time in the contract???

From what I can see even one clone in The Living Seas would breath life into Epcot with MS and Test Track.

Dave O.

[manning]

Just as info. caught this on yahoo Disney board.

Though Disney’s Imagineering still had the creative capabilities to be able to create Tokyo DisneySea for the Oriental Land Company (Disney didn’t pay for any of that park).

This is a very very small excerpt of the post.

[raidermatt]

Dave, I don't think anyone would say that 2 hour lines in a domestic park wouldn't be an issue. If that were to occur, certainly there would be calls for Disney to address the issue.

What everyone is saying (or at least me), is that's a much better problem to have than the problem Disney is actually facing. 2 hour lines at least means the people WANT to see what Disney has built.

Nobody has a problem with Disney building parks or even resorts, provided

1- There is a demand. It appears there is sufficient overall demand to sustain at least the current number of Disney domestic parks and resorts.

2- The parks and resorts live-up to the Disney standards. Those who lament the newer WDW resorts do so mostly because they feel the resorts don't live up to this standard, though there is some significant disagreement on the subject. There is little disagreement however, that DCA does NOT live up to this standard. To a lesser degree, the same applies to AK. The proof is in the turnstyles. AK has had disappointing attendance, and DCA has been an attendance disaster.

[Dznefreek]

Anyone who is feeling down about the current state of the company should take a look at it to remind you about what Disney can still accomplish when they have good management. Uh no! It is when they have other people's money!