Religious Services end at the Polynesian

[zulaya]

Just got Deb Wills newsletter and in it she says that as of August 11, all religious services at the Polynesian will cease.

[Trekker]

I wonder why?:(

[Peter Pan Fan]

That's a shame! Surprising too, since it was jam packed with people when we went.
It was a really beautiful mass, too bad it's leaving :confused:

[Greg K.]

A good Catholic alternative can be found at Mary Queenof the Universe Shrine, about a five minute drive from WDW.

Check out the web site:

http://www.maryqueenoftheuniverse.org/

We like to go Saturday night, to leave Sunday morning for touring

:)

[zulaya]

The newsletter didn't say why, just a statement that it would be ending. It seemed strange to me, too, to completely end it. I know they recently scaled back from 2 Catholic services to 1, and were still keeping the Protestant service. I assumed that was related to room occupancy.

I wonder if the priests/ministers that they had coming decided not to come anymore?

[Kellyh123]

We went the end of June and the Mass was packed. I overheard one of the ushers say that Disney didn't want to have the Mass there anymore. I didn't get to hear why. I really think that it's a shame because it was a wonderful thing for Disney to do! I wonder if it would help to write them?

[MrShiny]

I wrote, and suggest other to do so as well. It's just not nice, nor is it good business.

I doubt it is at all related to room levels - when we went in December, the Mass was full even though the Poly wasn't.

It just seems like another step aimed at keeping people off property.

This last trip, we stayed off site, but we still went to Mass at the Poly. We shopped there and ate breakfast - probably spent over $100 (they had a well stocked pin cart).

This just seems really short sighted.

[Greg K.]

Since so many people stay on site, and do not rent a car, and are limited in their transportation choices, having services at an on site hotel was a smart and thoughtful gesture for the benefit of its guests. (And another incentive to stay on property!)

It was also a family-friendly gesture -- and one you can be sure Walt would have endorsed, enthusiastically!

I wonder if it has anything to do with costs (doesn't every choice these days involve money???) But how much could something like that cost anyway?? Go figure.

While I was disappointed I couldn't get to mass, I was heartened to attend the interfaith service on the Disney Magic last fall. It was led by a cast member from South Africa who runs the kid's club on the ship and -- not coincidentally -- is an ordained minister!

[betterlatethannever]

My guess is that many people drove to the Poly to attend "church services" and whether they went to the services or not, they stayed at the MK the rest of the day.

[idontknow]

It was just on the news that one of our two downtown Catholic Churchs would be closing down because there wasn't enough priests to go around. Could it be that there are not enough priests for the Orlando area and they decided to cancel mass at WDW?

[Kellyh123]

I really don't think that's it because 1. I heard usher say that Disney didn't want to have the church services anymore.
2. Because they also cancelled the protestant services.

[dmen]

i am so upset by this! i mean Mary Queen of the Universe is a beautiful church, but i loved going to mass at the polynesian. in fact i was planning on my dec. trip to go one sunday to the polynesian and one to Mary Queen of the Universe. it doesn't make that much difference to me because we usually rent a car, but i feel very badly for the families that don't rent one thinking that disney transportation is sufficient. that is really awful that these people won't be able to attend services now. i could even justify it if disney offered a single non-denominational service that anyone without a car could attend. i certainly hope there is a good reason why it's been canceled, but i am not sure i can come up with any. i think i will write a letter.

[PLUTO2]

I agree that people should write to Disney and let them know how you feel! We are one of those groups of families that do not rent a car but instead use Disney transportation and I do not think asking for one mass a week is asking too much. So everyone write and let Disney hear how we feel about this:D

[ehagerty]

I look forward to the "official" explanation of this one!!!

I have accepted all of the "business adjustments" that have been made to adapt to the post-9/11 travel economy, because they have - for the most part - been rooted in business terms. But this one has no logical business implications, since the traffic through services could only have resulted in additional spending at the Polynesian, especially brunch.

Random thoughts:
1. I had heard (here?) that Walt expressly established access to religious services - and they have been continued along the lines of "this is what Walt would do.....".
2. Mass at 10:30 has been PACKED every time I was there, regardless of the economy - so much so that we started alternately with Mary QOTU just to be more comfortable.

So what could it be?
1. Are we approaching 9/11 again with expressly Christian services occurring at a potential target site?
2. Is Christianity incompatiable with the Disney "culture"? Is there pressure from "lobby groups" from within Disney to distance itself from all things Christian?

I bet the spin doctors are working overtime on this one - otherwise the "explanation" would have been embedded in the announcement!

[MinnieGi]

That is a real shame they discontinued services. It was especially nice for people who are on-site and carless.

I too can't wait for the "spin" on this one.

[Disneydenise]

There are very few priests in FL. I imagine that since they have such a large church reasonably close to WDW the priests have had to cut back. They are only human and can only be in one place at a time. It was very convenient but I guess they had to just say no. I think that it isn't just Disney having a say in this. I know that I talked to one of the priests after mass at the Poly several years ago and he said that he was on his way to a service in another FL town. They catholic church is hurting in the area of priests and it is a big problem the further you get away from large cities.

[Jen D]

I wonder why?

Was it making them money? What's that? The answer is no? Then it's history with the current Disney culture.

:confused:

Sorry, I don't like to be too cynical, but I think the answer is simple as that.

[msim]

:mad: Who/where can we email to protest? I'm very disappointed.

[PLUTO2]

I went to www.disneyworld.com and sent a letter through their guest services but there must be somewhere "higher" up that we can send our responses to.

[MrShiny]

I don't think it's a parking issue. If you were going to services, they gave you a limited tim parking pass (same as if dining). The only way around that is to pay the $6 for valet parking, which would be no different than parking in the lot at the TTC.

[MrShiny]

Keep in mind tha Mry Queen of the Universe is not a paris - it is a shrine dedicated to travelers. As such and as these were the priests who celebrated Mass, I really dn't think it was their choosing.

[kimmar067]

...mass at the Poly on Sunday, and it was wonderful. Originally, we had planned to attend the 8AM service, but when we called the Poly the night before to confirm, it had been cancelled, and the only option was at 10:15 AM. Now this, too, is being cancelled? Too bad; Luau Cove was PACKED with people ~~ it was "standing room only"! And, it was the first time I actually got to see the Poly first-hand. (I previously only got glimpses of it from the monorail...:D ) We WERE going to attend the shrine the day before, but who wants to pay $25 for a taxi when we could attend services for free on-site???

[reggie92762]

I just called the resort directly and was told this happened because of a shortage of priests. They were very nice about it but explained there was nothing they could do. They gave me the email to complain wdw.guest.communications@disney.com:mad:

[ptrbryant]

Hmm, if that's the case, then why have the Protestant services been cancelled as well? Plus, it was my understanding that the priest(s) who celebrate the Mass at the Poly are priests from Mother of the Universe Shrine...it's not like a priest was assigned solely to the Poly. Sorry, but it doesn't add up to me.

[reggie92762]

I agree there is something not adding up. Since I posted my brother in law and I have both called and gotten three different responses. One, no priest available. Two, renovation of the luau site where mass is held. Three, I can't remember now....we were told that at the last mass 800 people had to be turned away because of overcrowding. I also asked since they cancelled these services would they provide complimentary transportation to and from church and the answer was no. It is a shame. I wouldn't mind if it was my sons and I but we are with a group of 9.:(

[Patabel]

It's true that the priests are from the Shrine. However, if just one of those priests are reassigned to another parish because of need (which happens all the time and can be anywhere), then there wouldn't be an extra one available to go to the Poly. The Masses at the Poly were a nice convenience for us Catholics at WDW, but the primary assignment for those priests is the Shrine. In light of the nationwide shortage of priests, I guess I find that answer very, very believable.

As for the Protestant service...I have been there waiting for it to end in order to attend the 10:15 Mass, and the numbers of folks who attended were very small in comparison. It's possible that if they were eliminating one denomination, they would just eliminate all.

[DawnCt]

Originally posted by ptrbryant
Hmm, if that's the case, then why have the Protestant services been cancelled as well? Plus, it was my understanding that the priest(s) who celebrate the Mass at the Poly are priests from Mother of the Universe Shrine...it's not like a priest was assigned solely to the Poly. Sorry, but it doesn't add up to me.

My guess is, if they have had to cancel Catholic Services because there is a shortage of priest, perhaps they feel compelled to cancel all services to be equitable. I can hear the outcry now; "It isn't fair that there isn't a Catholic mass while the Baptists get to have a their service".

[DebbieB]

I attended the Protestant service 3 times and each time I don't think there were more than 20 people at any. The last time the Pastor said he had to leave early for the church picnic, so he was going to skip some hymns. :rolleyes:

They had to be making alot of money with people having breakfast there before or after the services, plus they would also stop in the shops.

[MrShiny]

I find the shortage of priests excuse very fishy. Has anyone gotten a response from the shrine? These Masses were well atended and appeared to do a decent job raising both funds and awareness of the shrine. I would expect they'd cut a Mass at the shrine before they would cut one the oe at the Poly.

[MauraAndIainsDad]

I too am very disappointed because I'm not a big fan of the Shrine. At each Mass that we've attended there, the priest has spent more time soliciting money to pay for the church than he spent on his homily. We were planning to switch back to the Poly Mass this year.

I don't buy the priest shortage excuse either - maybe it's just here in Atlanta but we are having priests ordained left and right. I just don't see a shortage problem like we had 10-15 years ago.

[ducklite]

I think it's a lot of factors, none of which are to make people pay for a cab to drive off property, or to have them stay off property, or to deter terrorists, or some of the other reasons stated above.

Some factors:

There was pressure by other religious groups to be able to offer services at WDW. Some of these groups are not "mainstream", and WDW was in a bit of a pickle. They didn't want to be called discriminatory, but they also didn't want certain factions tearing into them for "Supporting" non mainstream religious beliefs. They were basically forced to cancel all services. IMHO the biggest screamers about the non mainstream groups would have been the two groups who were already getting services. So WDW was in a no win situation.

The early Catholic mass didn't have huge attendance numbers. If you didn't have a car it was hard to get there. They had started to run "Church busses" from the resorts directly to the Poly on Sunday mornings, but that was costing money. I have no problem with Disney not wanting to spend the money on this. Fewer than .01% of the guests used the service, yet the cost had to be passed on to all.

The Protestant mass didn't do big numbers either.

There was some cost to WDW associated with offering the services, including clean up of the facility after the mass. Again, this cost had to be passed on to all guests for teh convenience of a very few.

Anne

[vickyBaby]

That's too bad. I guess I'll be going to the Shrine.

[Disneydenise]

I find any of the folks that don't buy the shortage of priests story fishy must not have been listening to the news lately. Here in the Trenton Disocese we have retired more priests than we have had ordained. It has been happening like that for at least 20 years. I hope they are ordaining alot of the southern boys because all the northern boys are marrying and having families and becoming Deacons. We have lots of those but only 3 priests in an active parish with over 10,000 active parishoners.
I too found that attending the mass at the Shrine was like attending a begathon. The shrine is lovely but you need to have a car to get there and back. I think it would run about $10.00 each way. I can't think many families will be able to give much more than $10 in the collection. It is a shame for the devoted to enjoy going to mass each week. I guess the Lord will understand. I wonder what they will do for the people vacationing during Christmas and Easter?

[Kellyh123]

When we went to the Mass in June we went to the 8:00 Mass and it was packed. Every seat was taken and people were standing. We went on the bus with a family who goes to Disney and the Mass at the Poly at least once a year. They said the whenever they went it was packed.

We were staying on property and there were no special buses for the Mass so I really don't see that there was all that much extra money spent. After Mass we ate breakfast at the Poly as did many other people. I actually think that Disney made money by having the Mass there. This really makes me sad.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Disneydenise
I find any of the folks that don't buy the shortage of priests story fishy must not have been listening to the news lately. Here in the Trenton Disocese we have retired more priests than we have had ordained.

We have 600 registered families in a very active church with one priest, plus a p/t deacon. Luckily we are near the headquarters for a missionary order, and we get a visiting priest from them every Sunday. 95% are from outside of the US. We've had priests from Africa, France, Spain, Portugual, various countries in Latin America, and more. Plus of course one from Chicago ;)

Send some of those Southern priests up here to NJ. We're desperate.

Anne

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Kellyh123
When we went to the Mass in June we went to the 8:00 Mass and it was packed.

I've never sen teh 8:00am mass packed, but then again I avoid busy times. They were definitely running "church busses" last August and December from the BW and AKL.

Anne

[randbmom]

the early Mass last year for Veteran's Day weekend was PACKED! We came over from CSR and later had breakfast at Kona Cafe. Although we had PS, the CM asked us if we had attended religious services that morning. I guess they were taking the survey to see how much impact the Masses/Services had on restaurant breakfast attendance. At a not so busy time, Kona Cafe and Ohana were jumping at breakfast. I guess it was not enough, though.
I think this is a real bummer. We have no car this trip, so the shrine is out, and we'll be there over two Sundays!

[Patabel]

I agree, while the Shrine is beautiful, the amount of time they spend on soliciting for donations takes away from the experience. Awhile back someone wrote about a local neighborhood Catholic Church down from the Crossroads intersection that was an option if you didn't want to go to the Shrine. I will see if I can find my notes about it.

[PamOKW]

A little background.....

Holy Family parish in Orlando had a pastor, Father Harte, who first began saying Masses for visitors to WDW at the Royal Plaza Hotel in the DD area. This evolved into the parish providing their priest and parishoners to conduct the Masses at the Polynesian. Father Harte saw the demand and was granted permission to establish a church solely devoted to the visitors to Orlando. He left Holy Family to do this. The church is the Mary Queen of the Universe Shrine. The priests from here continue to say the Masses at WDW and parishoners from Holy Family continue to help as part of their parish ministry. I realize the Shrine does spend a bit of time pushing for donations. However, the donations are what brought the church into being and continue to sustain it. There are no regular parishoners. They have taken a big hit in donations with the drop off in visitors to Orlando. Unfortunately, if they don't ask for help the Shrine could also cease to exist. Of course, no one is required to make a donation....just keep in mind how much everything else in Orlando costs and, if you can, budget something for the Shrine.

I don't think it's a lack of priests that caused them to cease the Masses at WDW. Since the Protestant service has also been cancelled, I think it was probably some "political pressure" that caused them to cease. It couldn't hurt to write and express disappointment that no on-site services will be held. I always thought that was pretty special.

[Zoo Keeper]

If you have transportation and would like to attend a mass somewhere other than the Shrine, try www.masstimes.org (http://www.masstimes.org)

They list addresses and mass times of all the Catholic churches in the area. We have gone to St. Mary Magdalen's in Altamonte Springs a few times. It was very nice and we were invited to coffee and doughnuts after the mass.

[MauraAndIainsDad]

Thanks for the link, Zoo Keeper! We'll probably try another church during our stay.

Just to clarify, I don't mind donating money at the Shrine and I know that they need to let people know that the Shrine is totally supported by visitors' donations. However, in my humble (but correct :teeth: ) opinion, they go over the top and it takes away from my Mass experience. So much so that it is driving me away from returning - my wife feels the same way, BTW.

Also, just to clarify, I can only speak to my observations about the priest shortages in the Atlanta area. I realize that other parts of the country may still be in crisis. Perhaps the Archdiocese of Atlanta is doing a better job of "recruiting" priests; maybe it is the fruits of the Elijah Cup ministry that we've been undertaking for several years. One thing that I have noticed is that a lot of the ordinations are of foreign men, especially Irish, Vietnamese and Latin (Mexican, Columbian, etc.) men. I still notice a shortage of nuns, however.

[Patabel]

As PamOKW mentioned, the nearby church is Holy Family. Here is the information I copied from another DIS'er awhile back:


It is Holy Family:
From Hotel Plaza Blvd. go to intersection in front of Crossroads and take a left...go about 10 miles up Apopka-Vineland north..past Bay Hill...and you'll come to Holy Family Church on your right...great family church in upper class neighborhood!
Mass Schedule: Sat 5
Sun : 7 AM
8:45 AM
10:30 AM
12:15 Pm
6 PM
Daily : Mon. - Sat : 8:30 AM
Mon - Fri. 6:45 AM
Phone # (407)876- 2211

[mkymouse1928]

I too am disappointed that there will be no on-sight mass anymore. While we will have a car with us I am the only Catholic and my hubby wont go with me (I respect his choice) and I'm not very good at finding my way in unfamiliar territory without someone to help with street signs and directions -- I can get lost in my own hometown :)! So I guess attending the shrine is not an option for me unless I can find someone to go with me.

I do understand the priest shortage. Here in Cincinnati many parishes share one priest with maybe two associates or retired priests who help out. The parish my parents attend only has one mass time as the priest just doesn't have enough time. He has an associate to say mass everyother Sunday but his primary job is teaching and saying mass at the seminary.

I guess we just have to pray that this will be a temporary measure until more men decide to join the priesthood.

[doxdogy]

Has anyone contacted the Diocese in Orlando to see if they have an answer to the question? My church up here is wonderful. But, Jacksonville is quite a drive from Orlando to attend church. But, if you ever feel the desire come on up and join us one Sunday.

Theresa

[Greg K.]

An idea...

I am just beginning formation to become a Catholic deacon, in the diocese of Brooklyn.

The Diocese of Orlando COULD assign one of its deacons to lead a communion service and administer the eucharist.

Which would at least be preferable to having hundreds of tourists stranded on site, without a car, unable to get to a church.

This is done in some remote areas of the country where there are very few priests.

[PamOKW]

The Diocese of Orlando COULD assign one of its deacons to lead a communion service and administer the eucharist

This is why I don't think it's their decision. They have built an entire ministry to serve the tourists. Why would they pull out now? I don't know for sure, but I think it's a Disney decision.

mykmouse -- The Shrine is very easy to reach. You get to Hotel Blvd. (near DD). Head straight out towards the Crossroads Shopping Center. Instead of going into the shopping center you turn right. Get into the left-hand lanes. You pass under I-4. There will be a traffic light leading into Little Lake Bryan. You turn left at this light. Follow the road until you hit the Shrine on your right.

I haven't been in the area in over a year. My guess is the road is even more clearly marked now since it also leads to many new hotels and to the Premium Outlet Center. If you make the trip once, it will be easy as pie in the future.

I agree that the Shrine pushes the message a bit -- but many Catholics need to be pushed to donate. ;) I would feel I am imposing on Holy Family to attend mass there. While they are welcoming, they have devoted a great deal of time and money to establish a beautiful church for visitors to attend. Kind of insulting to their work to not use the Shrine. They built the facility because they couldn't handle the crowds at their own parish. I would pick another church to attend if I didn't want to go to the Shrine.

[madaboutMickey]

I am also sorry to hear that there will not be any services held at the Poly during our next trip. We had decided not to rent a car this time but we may have to rethink this now.

We first attended the Shrine back in 1988 before the church was built. Mass was said in the building next to the gift shop. Only folding chairs but there was such a sense of community. Haven't found this since the church was completed. I agree, too much time is spent on asking for money. Last time we were there was in 1997. We started going to Mass on-site after that.

I can see that a shortage of priests may be the cause but why do away with the protestant service. Or is Disney trying to be "politically correct" again. Can't have one, can't have the other.

[AF Brenda]

I wouldn't see it as being politically correct as much as just plain fair. I'm kind of surprised that they had Christian services all these years, but not Jewish ones.

[disneykaws]

We attended mass at the Poly on July 28th. It was packed. SRO

We have always felt that having the mass on site was so special. We were glorifying God and thanking him for our trip and for our family being together. It is an annual, spiritual event for us. We liked making our faith a special part of our vacation, and the priests always helped to inspire those feelings.

I will write to the addresses given. Everyone should ask for the return of the services. Other groups seem to be acccomodated at Disney.

Maybe there is another location (like the theater near the American pavilion in Epcot) where they can accomodate all types of services more easily (parking, etc.)

[B3LM]

I'm very disappointed to hear this, so I just wrote to WDW. I hope I get a response back from them.

Beth

[Greg K.]

It occurs to me that if the Southern Baptists get wind of this -- and I'm sure, they will -- there will be hell to pay.

I can hear it now.

"What? You mean Disney is inviting ****-SEX-uals for those GAY DAYS and CANCELLING church on Sunday?!"

Can you say "Boycott"?

Oooh, that's just not good p.r., Disney, not at all. Somebody is definitely asleep at the switch here.

[AF Brenda]

Other groups seem to be acccomodated at Disney.

This is what I don't understand. As far as religious services, one group was being accomodated - Christians. Now, no groups are being accomodated. Of what groups are you speaking when you say they are being accomodated.

I guess I must be missing something.

[disneykaws]

Disney accomodates various conventions, private parties, etc. by closing normally public areas on occasion. They accomodate Gay Days and other special days in the parks. They should allow religious services on property, including Christian and non-Christian services.

[DeeP]

I wouldn't see it as being politically correct as much as just plain fair. I'm kind of surprised that they had Christian services all these years, but not Jewish ones.
I have thought the same thing for years. They could even use the same facility at the Poly and do the Jewish services on Sat.

[PamOKW]

The reason they did not offer Jewish services is that a Rabbi would have to volunteer his/her services. I'm sure if someone had expressed interest they would have set-up a Saturday service as well. Disney did not arrange the services, they just offered use of the space. They do provide directions to area mosques and synagogues as well as churches.

In any case, I asked the Shrine whether it was true that services would be ending. Here is the reply.

Walt Disney World has decided it would be more comfortable for their
guests to attend mass in a more traditional setting. In order to assist
their guests, Disney will begin providing bus transportation to the
Shrine church.

On your next visit, please check with a guest service cast member and
they will be happy to supply you with all the necessary information.


It's a shame the Poly services have to end but if Disney will set-up transportation to the Shrine it seems a reasonable trade-off.

[AF Brenda]

If indeed Disney is providing transportation, I think that is very nice, but certainly not something they are under any obligation to do.

And I do think it is nice that Disney "accomodates" Gay Days - they open their gates, just like every other day of the year.

[disneykaws]

According to WDWig:

Guests of Catholic faith can attend mass at the Mary, Queen of the Universe Shrine. Mears Motor Transportation offers round-trip shuttle service direct from each resort on Sunday morning for the 9:30 a.m. mass. The cost for this service is $10.00 per person, round-trip. Contact Mears at 407-423-5566 to make reservations. If you wish to arrange for taxi service, contact Checker/Yellow Cab at 407-699-9999.

[PLUTO2]

I thought the mass outdoors was special compared to a "traditional" setting. Now if I am reading the previous post correctly I will have to now pay $30.00 for three people so I can attend Mass?!

[PamOKW]

I will have to now pay $30.00 for three people

If you have more than one person, I would get a cab. Depending upon which resort you start from, the cost would be roughly $10-$15 each way. On second thought, maybe the bus does come out cheaper. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I was wondering whether Disney was going to pick up the tab. Hiring Mears to provide the service will save them a lot of headaches over trying to book cabs for all the folks looking to attend mass. Of course, I bet a lot of people who could get to the Poly will not be as likely to give up the time it will take to wait for buses. Driving a car there is no problem at all....waiting for bus service might be worth a special place in heaven. ;)

[Patabel]

I'm sure I'm about to get flamed here.......

Well, the bottom line is that WDW has never been obligated to nor should it be obligated in the future to provide religious services for its guests. I cannot think of any other resort area across the nation that does that. From all the years of attending Mass at the Poly, it was always made clear that Disney provided the facility at NO charge. Not even liability. (and in this sue-happy society we live in, I wonder how many claims have been made by folks who weren't paying attention and sat down wrong/fast on those low chairs, or kids who fell off the staging area during the Mass? ). All the other interest groups, private parties, conventions, etc. all pay tons o' money to utilize the facilities.

Will I pay busfare to go to Mass if I haven't rented a car? Of course. But that is my choice as a Catholic to attend Mass on Sunday. I think it's great that arrangements have been made to provide any transportation at all. Will I write letters asking for Masses back at the Poly? Of course, I will certainly miss the convenience. But that convenience isn't there when I travel anywhere else, so I will get over it.

I really am sorry if I am coming across harshly here. It just gets very frustrating when people are so very quick to bash WDW.

ok, I'm off the soapbox.

[raidermatt]

Forget should or shoudn't, obligated or not obligated.

By having the services, Disney kept some of its guests on property who would otherwise be leaving, if only for a few hours.

Now those guests will leave the property. If they take the bus, they will have $10 less per person to spend on property. If they choose to drive, they just might find something else to do off-property.

The idea behind WDW is that its supposed to be an enclosed resort, one that you never have to leave until your vacation is over. The religous services fit in with that philosophy.

[Zoo Keeper]

I wrote to Disney using the e-mail address in an earlier post asking them to verify the info. They e-mailed me back asking for my telephone # so thay can call me.

My first impression was they didn't want to put anything in writing. And they wanted my phone # so they can do a search in their system and find what info they have on me.

[AF Brenda]

The idea behind WDW is that its supposed to be an enclosed resort, one that you never have to leave until your vacation is over. The religous services fit in with that philosophy.

Sure they did, as long as you are a Christian. Otherwise, no.

[VickiVM]

Worshiping our Lord can be done anywhere at any time. I've never attended Mass at Poly (I'm not Catholic), but I'm sure the services were very special. But I've been on vacations that crossed over the weekend where, as a family, we held a devotional Sunday morning - prayed, sang hymns. Please pardon me, but is everyone upset because WDW has "taken away" a feature they feel they no longer can provide, or is it because everyone feels they have no place to worship God?? I'm beginning to wonder if by everyone's measure, can Disney do anything right, or is every decision of change wrong??

[moosebug]

Originally posted by VickiVM
Worshiping our Lord can be done anywhere at any time. I've never attended Mass at Poly (I'm not Catholic), but I'm sure the services were very special. But I've been on vacations that crossed over the weekend where, as a family, we held a devotional Sunday morning - prayed, sang hymns. Please pardon me, but is everyone upset because WDW has "taken away" a feature they feel they no longer can provide, or is it because everyone feels they have no place to worship God?? I'm beginning to wonder if by everyone's measure, can Disney do anything right, or is every decision of change wrong??
I couldn't agree more. Like it or not Disney is a business. Certain business decisions have to be made. Disney will call you a cab give you directions to send you to church. It's not like they are keeping you from going. What did you do before they offered these services offsite? I worship God and practice my faith everyday whether I'm at home or on Space Mountain. I think Disney knew they were going to be bombarded with complaints before they made this decision. :bounce: Granted its not as convenient but it's worth the extra effort.

[MauraAndIainsDad]

For a Catholic family who truly practices their faith, skipping Mass on the weekend is not an option. We consider it a sin to miss Mass on the weekend so a family devotional time is not an option as a replacement. You are right, worshipping the Lord can and should be done anywhere and anytime but that does not excuse us from the priviledge and obligation to attend weekend Mass. It's just that we were not planning to rent a car for our upcoming trip and this just places an unexpected financial obligation on us to get to Mass.

As far as the Christian vs. non-Christian comments go, I don't think anyone here would want Disney to deny any non-Christian services on the weekend. If enough people had written to Disney requesting this, they would have to consider it. Of course, this would have been before they pulled ALL religious services.

[Disneydenise]

Let's keep the Christian tone in this disscussion. I have never been able to attend mass anywhere but Disney World without providing my own transportation. If it is truly something you feel you need to do then a few extra $$$ shouldn't change your devotion. Unfortunately $$$ being what it is I think the Shrine will be seeing less in the collection basket. How do folks get to Universal when they don't have a car? I think maybe God is as special as Spiderman.

[Greg K.]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Patabel
[B]I'm sure I'm about to get flamed here.......

"Well, the bottom line is that WDW has never been obligated to nor should it be obligated in the future to provide religious services for its guests. I cannot think of any other resort area across the nation that does that."

---

That may be because there is no other resort area across that nation that lure guests by assuring them they do NOT need a car.

Disney has always made a virtue of the fact that it is a self-contained resort, miles from many ordinary conveniences. But, they've argued, you can always use free Disney transportation exclusively to get around. (Among other things, this has proven to be a great way to keep people on property, spending their dollars in The World.)

Providing church services was one more way to assure people that they don't necessarily need a car to vacation there.

[Greg K.]

...following up on my idea about "not needing a car" at Disney.

Disney research has undoubtedly shown that fewer people want to fly. After 9/11, more people are driving to The World. So more have cars...and can go where they want to church.

[reggie92762]

Everyone above has a certain correctness to their answers. I am a practicing Roman Catholic who attends mass with my family every Sunday. Disney does not have an obligation to provide me with a mass but it was a wonder courtesy!!!! We will be booking cabs to take us to the Shrine next Sunday...cost was not a deterent to attending mass it was just convenient at Poly...as 8am would have gotten us to breakfast and the parks without losing any time. We will be attending 7:30am mass next week so again, no time lost....Hopefully just another wonderful experience of worshiping at another church....

I believe everyone can worship in their own way....This question is obviously touching cords with all involved and in some cases is getting a little disharmonious.

[LvsTnk]

Does this also include the Christmas services at the Contemporary?

[PamOKW]

Disney does not have an obligation to provide me with a mass but it was a wonder courtesy!!!!

That's the bottom-line. It was a wonderful thing they offered. It's too bad they have decided not to continue but, beyond expressing an opinion to Disney, there isn't much to be done about it. Just like any other change they've made recently, we may miss it but they aren't doing anything wrong in making changes.

I'm curious how the Protestant service was conducted. Did different ministers share the responsibility? One of the deterrents to other faiths offering services is how to provide the celebrant. As I mentioned earlier, Disney didn't pay the people who conducted the services. The Catholic Church has a very unusual and active tourist ministry so they had a priest assigned to conduct the services. A local rabbi or minister would have to take time away from their own congregation on their "busiest" day (so to speak) to run services at WDW. I'm not sure that would be feasible for them. IMHO, there wasn't any Disney effort to include or exclude any religion, it was just logistics and availability.

[JEANMR1]

Disney is a business!
Be thankful that mass had been provided conveniently and free of charge all of this time.
Be thankful that they are continuing to try and be helpful to arrange transporation and directions so you may continue to worship.
Be thankful that you were one of the religions considered mainstream enough to have had a service on-site all these years.
Be thankful that you are on vacation with your family.
Be thankful for your faith.

Do not complain to a company for trying to make a profit, or for not being able to find a priest, or for trying to be politically correct (or any reason they may have had for cancelling the service). If you can afford a WDW vacation AND stay onsite - you can afford transporation to a church folks. Don't be petty.

[reggie92762]

Like I said everyone has a right to input but this is just starting to sound snippy and snide. People save long and hard for these vacations so don't assume they have what they don't. Budgeting always goes into planning....I thought the petty comment was very petty.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by AF Brenda
I wouldn't see it as being politically correct as much as just plain fair. I'm kind of surprised that they had Christian services all these years, but not Jewish ones.

Yup. Or Sikh, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhast, or Wiccan. Remember, the very large majority of the global population is NOT Christian.

Anne

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Greg K.
It occurs to me that if the Southern Baptists get wind of this -- and I'm sure, they will -- there will be hell to pay.

I can hear it now.

"What? You mean Disney is inviting ****-SEX-uals for those GAY DAYS and CANCELLING church on Sunday?!"

Can you say "Boycott"?

Oooh, that's just not good p.r., Disney, not at all. Somebody is definitely asleep at the switch here.

My guess is that they would have been screaming even louder if WDW started offering services for Muslims and Wiccans.

The Protestant service was seldom well attended, so maybe they need to rethink their arguments.

Anne

[ducklite]

Originally posted by disneykaws
Disney accomodates various conventions, private parties, etc. by closing normally public areas on occasion. They accomodate Gay Days and other special days in the parks. They should allow religious services on property, including Christian and non-Christian services.

The special events that close parts of the property are paid for DEARLY by the sponsors.

Disney does not support or condone Gay Day. They can't keep them out, they have no legal reason to. And any part of the property closed to the public for Gay Day is rented (read paid for) by the Gay Day organizers.

I'm sure that if a Catholic or Protestant ministry would like to begin paying for space rental, WDW would be happy to accomodate them.

Anne

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Patabel
I'm sure I'm about to get flamed here.......

Well, the bottom line is that WDW has never been obligated to nor should it be obligated in the future to provide religious services for its guests. I cannot think of any other resort area across the nation that does that.

No bashing here, GREAT POST!

Anne

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Patabel
I'm sure I'm about to get flamed here.......

Well, the bottom line is that WDW has never been obligated to nor should it be obligated in the future to provide religious services for its guests. I cannot think of any other resort area across the nation that does that.

No bashing here, GREAT POST!

Anne

[ducklite]

Originally posted by raidermatt
Forget should or shoudn't, obligated or not obligated.

By having the services, Disney kept some of its guests on property who would otherwise be leaving, if only for a few hours.

Now those guests will leave the property. If they take the bus, they will have $10 less per person to spend on property. If they choose to drive, they just might find something else to do off-property.

The idea behind WDW is that its supposed to be an enclosed resort, one that you never have to leave until your vacation is over. The religous services fit in with that philosophy.

Yeah, if you were Christian. What about the rest of the guests?

Anne

[DebbieB]

I'm curious how the Protestant service was conducted. Did different ministers share the responsibility? One of the deterrents to other faiths offering services is how to provide the celebrant.

We went to the Protestant Service 3 times from 1996 to 1999. They really didn't announce what denomination they were, they said they came from a interfaith ministry in Orlando (or something like that). I remember the first time they had communion but the other two times not. Each time the service was different. One time the minister and his sons setup a tape machine that played the music for the hymns, another time the minister was strictly on his own. The last time it was warm so they didn't use the alter (stage), it was a small group so the minister stood under the roof on the far end and conducted the service (this was the time I mentioned he had to cut it short because of his church picnic!).

[DisneyHumbug]

I just received e-mail from Disney concerning the masses:

Thank you for contacting WALT DISNEY WORLD!

Catholic Church Services, are held at the Mary, Queen of the Universe Catholic
Shrine. The shrine is located 2 1/2 miles northeast of Lake Buena Vista on the
I-4 frontage road. Traveling south on SR 535 from Hotel Plaza
Boulevard/Crossroads, drive to second traffic signal, turn left (Vineland
Avenue) and continue approximately 1 mile.
Mass is held at Mary Queen of the Universe Catholic Shrine on:

Sunday: 7:30am, 9:30am, 11:30am, and 6pm
Saturday: 6pm
A priest hears confession daily. Call (407) 239-6600 for further information.

Guests of Catholic faith can attend mass at the Mary, Queen of the Universe
Shrine. Mears Motor Transportation offers round-trip shuttle service direct
from each resort on Sunday morning for the 9:30am mass. The cost for this
service is $10.00 per person, round-trip. Guests can contact Mears at
407-423-5566 to make reservations. Guests wishing to arrange for taxi service
can contact Checker/Yellow Cab at 407-699-9999.

We hope this information is helpful, and we look forward to future opportunities
to entertain you.

If you have questions or need further assistance, feel free to contact us.

Please include your full name, E-Mail address, and reservation number if
applicable on all correspondence.

Thank you!

Sincerely,

Gail Williams

[B3LM]

Just wanted to let everyone know that a castmember just called me to answer my questions regarding the religious services.
He said that the main reason that they are discontinuing the services offered at the Poly is because of the rehab. However, he also told me that there is no plan to offer them after the rehab is complete either. He also said that they won't be offering services at the Contemporary convention center as they have in the past for special holidays (Christmas and Easter).

I specifically asked if it had anything to do with a shortage of priests. His answer was no.

He did explain that the shrine was nearby and that they felt it was better to offer the services in one central location (i.e. the shrine). The transportation options will be your own vehicle, Mears shuttle, or taxis.

Beth

[Disneydenise]

Wow now that is a shame that they won't be offering the services at the resort for the holidays. I have never been away during a holiday but I thought that it was nice they made it so easy to celebrate C&E . Now many of the folks won't even get to church on those days. I am sorry for anyone who had a plan to go to DW for Christmas the shrine is big but not that big. The shrine is also very crowded even when it isn't a holiday. Make sure you leave early.

[DisneyHumbug]

Does anyone know approximately how much a taxi would cost to take to the shrine? I can just imagine the chaos on Christmas morning with Mears!!!

[PamOKW]

Does anyone know approximately how much a taxi would cost to take to the shrine?

Of course it depends which hotel you start from, but I would guesstimate about $15 each way. Mapquest puts the distance at 1.5 miles from the Doubletree on Hotel Plaza. (The directions from OKW come up convoluted so I can't get an accurate guess.)

I think the shrine seats roughly 2,000. However, it does still tend to fill for the masses at Christmas.

I wondered if shutting down the luau might have had something to do with this decision and it sounds like it did. I sure hope the luau is just closed for refurbishing and not gone for good, too.

[DisneyHumbug]

Thanks for the info Pam. We're staying at WL - maybe I'll look into renting a car now. I broke the news to my Mom - she's not a happy camper!!!

[PLUTO2]

Originally posted by PamOKW


I wondered if shutting down the luau might have had something to do with this decision and it sounds like it did. I sure hope the luau is just closed for refurbishing and not gone for good, too.

When is the luau shut down?

[Luv2Roam]

"Catholic Church Services, are held at the Mary, Queen of the Universe Catholic Shrine. The shrine is located 2 1/2 miles northeast of Lake Buena Vista on the I-4 frontage road. Traveling south on SR 535 from Hotel Plaza Boulevard/Crossroads, drive to second traffic signal, turn left (Vineland Avenue) and continue approximately 1 mile."
And don't let the door hit you on the way out! ;):jester:

[PamOKW]

Originally posted by B3LM
Just wanted to let everyone know that a castmember just called me to answer my questions regarding the religious services.
He said that the main reason that they are discontinuing the services offered at the Poly is because of the rehab. However, he also told me that there is no plan to offer them after the rehab is complete either.

I don't know the details. I took the comment about closing for rehab from Beth's post. Anyone have more info?

[Sammie]

I am beginning to think that the perfect saying for Disney and Internet Forums is:"You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time."

Or Disney World the Vacation Destination Some Love to Hate!

[lvs_eeyore]

I asked the Poly Concierge about this yesterday and the answer was it had just gotten too large, too many people and they couldnt accommodate them all.

As far as I know they are still booking the Luau because I asked about that also when I was asking about special things to do to celebrate my birthday while we are there.

[Rajah*]

i want to add my thoughts to those that believe cancelling religious services is a bad idea. without being scientific in thinking about numbers, i would guess that most guests (if they have a faith) are christian. as a service to guests (and what's better for business, than happy customers?), having on-site services seems to me a good idea. i attended RC sevices on my last trip and greatly appriciated disney making it possible to do so. the only impact this has on my opinion of dw management is negative. things change in life, and this is a change for the worse. our country needs to strengthen itself, and fostering of the values worship provides us is good exercise. bad decision disney! :(

[kimmar067]

...then why did they cancel the 8AM service? We attended the 10:15AM one because the 8AM service was cancelled due to lack of attendance( or so WDW said....)

[PLUTO2]

I received an e-mail today from WDW in response to my letter about the religious services no longer being offered. They asked for my phone number and a good time to call. Has anyone received a phone call?

[Janet2k]

Thank you, everyone, for the information. I am sad that religious services won't be offered anymore. I will miss them.

[MrShiny]

"Too large" is a poor excuse as well. Why then not just move them to the balllroom at the Contemporary where htey were holding services on the major holidays?

[pooh6890]

Disney is under no obligation to provide religious services. They are providing information for services in the area if any of you wish to attend. Disney is a Theme Park folks! I am sure that God understands you are on vacation and one Sunday is fine with her!

[sumessefui]

While I will miss the Mass at the Poly, WDW has no obligation to supply space for it. I am sure it was really no expense for them,since there was no real setup and minimal if any cleanup. I guess it was just another politically correct decision.
Since we usually have a car, going to the shrine for Mass will be no problem. However we normally eat at the Poly or GF after Mass and then do some shopping there. Since we will already be off grounds we will eat off grounds and not shop at the resorts. Being that Disney's revenue is already down they will not miss the little that we would have spent.

[AF Brenda]

I guess it was just another politically correct decision.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[ducklite]

Originally posted by MrShiny
"Too large" is a poor excuse as well. Why then not just move them to the balllroom at the Contemporary where htey were holding services on the major holidays?

Because that is RENTED for receptions, conventions, meetings and such. What are you going to do...tell the vendors taht rent booth space at conventions taht they need to tear down their booths for Sunday mornings so they can have servces? Right.

They could do it for Christmas and Easter as those were not days that the center would have been rented.

Sorry, but as a practicing Catholic I have to say "take responsibility for yourself". Disney is under no obligation to provide services for you. Period. Take cab, rent a car, take Mears, what ever. But get over it.

Anne

[snowwhitemom]

:(

[MrShiny]

Originally posted by ducklite


Because that is RENTED for receptions, conventions, meetings and such. What are you going to do...tell the vendors taht rent booth space at conventions taht they need to tear down their booths for Sunday mornings so they can have servces? Right.

They could do it for Christmas and Easter as those were not days that the center would have been rented.

Sorry, but as a practicing Catholic I have to say "take responsibility for yourself". Disney is under no obligation to provide services for you. Period. Take cab, rent a car, take Mears, what ever. But get over it.

Anne

Anne, you are missing the point. It's not that Disney was under any obligation to provide this service, but thy made a smart decision by doing it. It kept people onsite, which is the whole business model of Walt Disney World - keep the guest on property as much as possible to keep then spending money on Disney.

Taking away this convenience forces those who wish to follow the law of Catholic faith to go offsite.

True, there probably would be scheduling conflicts wth the convention centers, but I wonder how many use that ballroom on Sunday (including those still set up there). I don't know, but I wouldn't think it woul be so many that blocking that time off would loose much business.

Regardless, Disney seems to be back peddaling now in a move that I would think could cost them more money than just maintaining what was the status quo. Here is the email I just got from Mary Queen of the Universe:

<blockquote>
Dear Jeff,

It is true that there will no longer be a mass at the Polynesian resort.
Walt Disney World felt it would be more comfortable for people to
attend mass in a church. As a result, they are providing buses to
transport their guests to the Shrine. If you wish to use Disney's bus
service on your next visit, simply inquire at the guest service desk of
your Disney hotel.

Thank you for your inquiry,
Valerie
Mary, Queen of the Universe Shrine
</blockquote>

It seems they may be betting that most guests who would have gone to the Poly won't take advantage (or won't know) about this new service.

Of course, I'm assuming much here in the absense of even a statement from Disney.

Still is just seems like a bad business move. Anything that drie people offsite probably won't pay for itself in the long run.

[reggie92762]

Thank you Mr. Shiny...you said it all!!!!!

[ducklite]

Originally posted by MrShiny

Taking away this convenience forces those who wish to follow the law of Catholic faith to go offsite.




You are missing the point--lots of people have left the property for years for services. Christians are NOT the only faith on the earth. My guess is that 80% of the people will just skip church, and of the other 20%, at least half will have thir own transportation.

And you are wrong about the convention center space, most convention load in begins Saturday afternoon and continues through Sunday.

Anne

[DisneyHumbug]

Disney isn't supplying the buses - Mears is for $10 per person!!!!

[MrShiny]

Originally posted by ducklite



You are missing the point--lots of people have left the property for years for services. Christians are NOT the only faith on the earth. My guess is that 80% of the people will just skip church, and of the other 20%, at least half will have thir own transportation.

And you are wrong about the convention center space, most convention load in begins Saturday afternoon and continues through Sunday.

Anne

Let me state it a different way. There were hundreds of people who were coming to the Poly every week. Now those same people will have to go off site to get what they require. That seems like very bad business, especially when the costs are probably low.

True, there are many faiths whose followers have had no option but to leave property. However, many of those faiths do not have the same obligation that Catholics do to attend a mass each week under pain of mortal sin.

I'm not questioning that conventions load in over the weekend - I'm questioning how many conventions the Fantasia ballroom hosts. By this I mean shows that would require it to be set up in a way inconsistent with Mass (that is, if it is set up with a large numbe of seats facing a dias, there should be no problem accomadating a Mass).

Look, Disney is under no obligation to do many of the things it does. But many of those things are aimed at enhancing the guest experience and keeping people onsite.

I just think that in the long run cutting these things will generate short term savings at the expense of long term losses as people have fewer reasons to stay onsite.

[Greg K.]

Of the hundreds who flocked to the Poly for religious services every Sunday, a fair number of them probably lingered for breakfast or coffee or to browse the shops.

Now those people are being actively encouraged to go elsewhere. They are being directed to a nearby shrine with a large (and very inviting) gift shop.

They are being directed off property, where they will drive past other restaurants...and maybe get a hankering for IHOP pancakes after mass.

Any way you slice it -- measured in public relations, or in dollars and cents --this is a bad business decision.

[anniet]

Has anybody considered for a minute, that a large gathering of Christians, mostly Americans on Vacation in Walt Disney World, of all places, in the United States of America could present a tempting target for a terrorist attack?

Maybe I'm being Alarmist here, but I was in WDW on 9/11 and when the parks closed, I wondered what my risks were. The thought did cross my mind that I was in one of those places that seems so hated by terrorist groups. Since then Disney has been stepping up their security and safety measures, and while it saddens me, in a way I'm glad. I returned to the parks on 9/12 and they were ill prepared to provide the security measures that seem to be required now.

Perhaps, Disney wasn't making a Business decision. Perhaps safety was their concern.

I must say that I too am disappointed with the cancellation of masses, but unfortunately it's a whole new world.

[pooh6890]

Mr Shiny.........Pain of Mortal Sin? For not going to church on one Sunday out of your vacation? I do believe it's time to move this discussion to the Debate board where it belongs Moderators.............:rolleyes:

[reggie92762]

Thank you AnnieT for another twist to this. Your thoughts were caring and insightful...

[Greg K.]

Pooh 6890:

It is part of Catholic teaching that if a Catholic willingly chooses to miss mass on Sunday, it is a grave sin.

If he or she is unable to attend mass -- for extenuating circumstances, such as ill health or lack of transportation -- a prayer service, with readings and reflections, CAN, under certain circumstances, be an acceptable substitute.

[pooh6890]

Then I suggest you plan your vacation from Monday to Saturday if there are no services available on Sunday at the Poly. I don't want to debate this with you. As I said, Disney has no obligation to provide such services and there is still plenty of available churches all over Orlando if you feel the need to attend such services. Like Ducklite said, get over it already.

[MrShiny]

Hello - the point is it's bad business. They are giving people a reason to go off site. So schedule a Monday-Saturday trip? Fine - then they are giving people a reason to limit their vacations.

The point is Disney should be not be driving guests off site!

Does anyone disagree with that?

And I didn't mention pain of mortal sin to spark debates - it's merely a fact of the Catholic faith. True there can be extenuating circumstances, but having to drive off site probably wouldn't qualify. It's just a fact that a Catholic of age who misses Mass on Sunday is under mortal sin (which can be absolved by the sacrament of reconcilliation). There's nothing to debate, that's just Catholic law. There is a commandment to keep holy the sabbath, and the Church has decreed that means attending Mass on Sunday. If you don't, then you broke a commandment, which has the same weight as breaking any of the other 9. Without reconcilliation, it is mortal - that is it kills your soul. You can call this whatever you like, but that is what we believe.

As to security, that seems rather week, especailly as a Catholic or Christian gathering would really have no added significance to those who initiatied 9/11, and there are times at Disney World that far more people gather (fireworks, parades, etc.)

The point is it's bad business. They have decreased the value of what they offer (if even to only a few hundred people a week) while not reducng cost. So for those who went to the Poly mass or service, they now have less value in their Disney World stay for the same money.

Further, they have an incentive to leave property.

Here's a similar case. The hotels of Vegas comp big gamblers to get them to spend more time (and hence money) at their resort. If they were to stop this, don't you think those gamblers might find less value? Don't you think they might stay a little less (and hence spend a little less)? In the long run, don't you think eliminating those comps would cost the resort money?

[gepetto]

I think it's just another one of Disney's many cutbacks. Over the past year they have cut out EE and reduced park hours. There are fewer E-ticket nights, parades and fireworks shows. Yet, most people continue to stay onsite. I don't think that cutting out religious services will drive a great number of people offsite.

[MrShiny]

Originally posted by gepetto
I think it's just another one of Disney's many cutbacks. Over the past year they have cut out EE and reduced park hours. There are fewer E-ticket nights, parades and fireworks shows. Yet, most people continue to stay onsite. I don't think that cutting out religious services will drive a great number of people offsite.

I don't think that's true - aren't there only about 30,000 room onsite? I would thnk that most times of the year there are many more people in the parks than would fit in those rooms.

Anyone have numbers?

You certainly can't go by just this year - many of those vacations were planned before any cutbacks and many of those vactioners might not even know about them unil they arrive. I think if they continue and don't reverse this trend, people will be spending fewer and fewer days onsite.

Time will tell, but I don't think sacrificing value usually pays for itself.

[gepetto]

Originally posted by MrShiny


I don't think that's true - aren't there only about 30,000 room onsite? I would thnk that most times of the year there are many more people in the parks than would fit in those rooms.



Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I meant that people that would NORMALLY stay onsite continue to do so....even with the cutbacks.:D

[FunkyLamb]

This isn't WDWs doing. It's the Catholic Church and it's not about a shortage of priests. It's about money.

There has been a bit of bad blood for a number of years between the Catholic Church. A few years back, the church basically forbid their priests from doing wedding ceremonies on property. I spoke with a nun who was a spokesperson at the time and she told me it had to do with the fact that there wasn't a consecrated church. "A-ha!", I said, "What about the Sunday services at the Polynesian Resort?". She had no answer.

After digging around a little bit more, my conclusion was the following. The Catholic church would much rather see Catholics go to their 'turf', drop some money in the collection baskets and make a little more cash than trucking over to WDW and basically doing the service for nothing. I know this sounds really jaded, but I do believe that it all boils down to that.

As for the other faiths. I don't know. Maybe Disney felt compelled to eliminate them all to avoid any ill feelings. It is all kind of silly to me.

[Greg K.]

...I dunno 'bout that. It's perhaps a combination of factors.

Here's my little Disney wedding story.

In 1996, my wife and I wanted to renew our wedding vows at WDW for our 10th wedding anniversary. Not get married, just renew our vows. We inquired at the diocese about finding a priest to do just that.

The response: no. The diocese considers the atmosphere at Disney World to be inappropriate for an event as sacred and important as a wedding. (They have a point, actually, when you get right down to it. It IS an amusement park, after all.)

I tried to impress upon them that this was a RENEWAL OF VOWS, not an original wedding. They were unfazed.

So the Disney wedding planners found a very nice Methodist minister who performed a renewal of vows for us, in the garden at the Yacht Club. We'd have preferred a Catholic priest, but c'est la vie.

[gepetto]

Funkylamb...what is the "Scrotum of Knowledge" and why do you worship it? :jester:

Just curious.

[anniet]

FunkyLamb has a great point. It's BETTER business for the Catholic church to do their masses over at their shrine with their gift shop, than to send a priest over to Disney to say them.

Mr. Sunshiny- since Disney didn't charge for the masses in the first place, I believe nothing gained, nothing lost. If you are worried about your soul, you can take it off property down to the MQOTU shrine, and participate in Mass there. Perhaps as Christians we should be thankful that Disney was kind enough to provide the service for us as long as they did, instead of complaining about the fact that we have to drive a few miles down the road now.

And Las Vegas has a much larger interest in keeping high rollers on property than Disney does to keep Christians. Let's face it, the Christians are going to come back after Mass or Services and spend money on property anyway.

It's probably a number of contributing factors and this whole thread is just speculation on reasons why the masses have stopped. If writing to Disney makes people feel better, I think they should. But if the priests aren't willing to go over there to say the masses, then it doesn't really matter anyway, and nobody knows for sure whether it's Disney or the Catholic Church.

But pick the target that you feel better bashing, Disney or the Church, I'm sure they are both used to it.

[MrShiny]

Funny, I had a long conversation last December with my friend (who is a tour guide at the Vatican) about the wedding thing. Her point was money isnt the issue - the Church in the past has turned down millions to hold true to it's beliefs.

While there is a requirement to attend Sunday mass, there is no requirement to get married. So there is the luxury to perform that in the proper atmosphere. The Church generally likes to ensure that the two participants are prepared for the sacrament - this would be very difficult for those coming in for a wedding.

As far as those who stay on site continue to do so, I take issue with that since I see on boards more and more people doing exactly the opposite. I myself stayed off site my last trip, in part because Disney wasn't offering the value it ad in the past. Now next trip is very short, so the location makes up for that.

They are loosing money in this move. When we were there in June, we drove in from off site to go to Mass at the Poly. We spent about $100 in the shops (mainly on things that were impulse buys and that we probably wouldn't have bought otherwise). We ate there - probably another $50 (six of us at Capt. Cook's). We weren't the only ones from Mass to do so.

That revenue stream will be lost.

Of course in Vegas it's more - that's why they give you more as well. But the fact remains that they are sending people off site that they could easily keep on site. It definitely costs them money in lost sales - it's just a question of enough to outweigh the minimal cost of hosting the Mass.

[anniet]

I've stayed off site many many times. I know the prices are down now, but it's cyclical. I was getting the $20 rate in the early 90's when nobody was visiting because of the economy then. Over the years, the rates began to increase, but the upkeep of the hotels didn't change much.

I've stayed onsite too, and I have to say it is a different feel to the vacation. That's why we bought the DVC this past March. Rates will go up and down offsite, but that offsite property that looks real good this year for the price, will be more expensive next year and have a lot of upkeep to be done too, and let's face it nobody keeps up their hotels the way Disney does. The low rates are nice, but I was tired of mirrors placed too high for me to see my face (I'm 5 feet tall) Bathroom lights that don't come on in the middle of the night, housekeeping that does a minimal job, and rude staff who are slow to respond.

Mass or not, give me a Disney Resort any day.

I guess it's fools like me that Disney relies on!:jester:

[reggie92762]

Well are car is booked for this weekend. 7:00am for the 7:30 mass. So this is how I chose to "Get Over" the issue. I also think I have a right to voice my opinion on this discussion without getting into a religious dispute. I hope everyone enjoys their religions and observances as much as my family. I love to discuss but not to butt heads...

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Greg K.
...I dunno 'bout that. It's perhaps a combination of factors.

Here's my little Disney wedding story.

In 1996, my wife and I wanted to renew our wedding vows at WDW for our 10th wedding anniversary. Not get married, just renew our vows. We inquired at the diocese about finding a priest to do just that.

The response: no. The diocese considers the atmosphere at Disney World to be inappropriate for an event as sacred and important as a wedding. (They have a point, actually, when you get right down to it. It IS an amusement park, after all.)

I tried to impress upon them that this was a RENEWAL OF VOWS, not an original wedding. They were unfazed.

So the Disney wedding planners found a very nice Methodist minister who performed a renewal of vows for us, in the garden at the Yacht Club. We'd have preferred a Catholic priest, but c'est la vie.

Greg-

We'll be in the same position in a few years with our vow renewal, and plan on andling it the exact same way.

We're already married in the eyes of God in a Catholic church ceremony, so I don't think he'll really care if we do our vow renewal with another Christian officiant...

Anne

[PamOKW]

This isn't WDWs doing. It's the Catholic Church and it's not about a shortage of priests. It's about money.

Disney has decided to cease the masses at the Poly. The Catholic Church in Orlando has gone above and beyond the call of duty to provide a beautiful setting for Catholics to worship and has also provided celebrants at WDW for mass on Sunday and holidays. My guess is the Shrine revenue will probably go down because many Catholics won't make the effort to go offsite to mass and they won't be making a donation.

They do not conduct weddings at WDW because the atmosphere at WDW puts much more emphasis on the "show" than on the religious sacramental aspects of the marriage. If it's important to the couple to be married in the Catholic Church that's what they'll do, even if it's not at WDW. If being married at WDW is more important, that sort of proves the point of why they don't conduct the sacrament there. The Church doesn't make money in Orlando by having the marriages offsite. The area churches all have residency requirements before they perform a marriage. The Church is not participating in the "business" of weddings that WDW has developed. They are encouraging Catholics to participate in the pre-Cana and marriage requirements of their home parishes. The same holds true for Vegas weddings. There are no priests in the drive-in chapels.

This is just an attempt to explain the Catholic position and doesn't reflect on any other faith that holds weddings at WDW.

I am sure that a priest would conduct a marriage renewal at WDW. However, it's very likely you would have to bring the priest yourself. Many people who do marry in resort or summer home locations, bring along their parish priest or a friend or family member who is a priest to conduct the ceremony. The local priests in these areas and WDW wouldn't have the time to conduct these ceremonies and attend to their own parishes and other events. Many WDW area ministers are in business to support themselves and their families by their work at WDW. I'm not sure whether they have congregations or basically just do the weddings at WDW.

[raidermatt]

Sure they did, as long as you are a Christian. Otherwise, no.
Disney does very few things that every guest cares about. The services kept a significant number of guests on-site. You can cry "foul" all you want, but fairness has absolutely nothing to do with it.

They are a public company and had every right to offer the services, and every right to cancel them. I'm only questioning the business wisdom in cancelling. Since I don't have access to the numbers, I can only speculate and say its possible this was a bad business decision. However, its also possible it wasn't.

The point is, it was a business decision, and Disney's recent pattern has been one of making decisions based on short-term factors rather than long-term factors.

[7susan7]

My husband and I will be leaving for our annual Sept. vacation to Disney World. One of our favorite memories of each trip is Mass at the Poly., usually the 8:15 a.m. (then we have brunch etc.) Needless to say I am very disheartened to hear about all Masses being cancelled there. We always stay on the grounds and rent a car so we are lucky enough to have the option to attend Mass at Poly., or off the grounds at Mary Queen of the Universe. We were in Disney in May and we attended Mass at Poly., as usual.

I feel lately my celebration as a Christian in public places is being taken away from me. Its time for me to step forward and speak out and also write a letter to Disney.

There could be so many reasons why this has happened. Unfortunately I'm afraid we will never be told the real reason for what I feel is another wrong decision on Disneys part.

We leave in 19 days We need it BAD!!!!

Good Park Hopping to everyone.

[kimmar067]

You bring up a very valid point. We attended service at the 10:15AM mass at the Poly last Sunday. Although we have been to WDW 5 times, we've never had to opportunity to "check out" the Poly (except from the monorail as it passed). Not only did we do some shopping there, but I got to finally taste the Kona coffee that I'd heard so much about!! (BTW - I was NOT disappointed!) Those guests who would otherwise not even visit the Poly, really get a "taste" of this resort, as they have to, not only enter the lobby, but pretty much venture out to the far end of the grounds.

[AF Brenda]

I feel lately my celebration as a Christian in public places is being taken away from me. Its time for me to step forward and speak out and also write a letter to Disney.

So in other words, Disney has some sort of obligation to accomodate your celebration as a Christian?

Sorry, but I don't agree.

[CathyCanada]

Folks, this is not the debate board. Debating one another's thoughts and feelings on this issue should be done in the appropriate forum, the Debate Board.

As some of you have already done, if you are unhappy about the decision, contact Disney, fighting amongst yourselves will solve nothing. Personally I agree that it is yet another of Disney's decisions to be politically correct. Regardless of how many Christians go to Disney, the services were provided for one group only, to the exclusion of others.

Remember "Dixie Landings"?

Anyway, enough has been said, any other discussions on this can be continued on the Debate Board if you wish. Please, if you are unhappy, write Disney and let them know.

Cathy