Track & Field Suggestions

[mom2rtk]

This is the first time my son has run Track. He's a distance runner, so at least I get a decent length of time to get some shots.

It was pretty sunny yesterday when he had his first meet, so I used my Tamron 18-270. I wasn't sure what settings to use, so I set it to sports mode. I did OK, but was a little disappointed. Many of the photos were out of focus. These were close, but not as sharp as I'd like.

I'm guessing it's because there are SO many things in the field of view for the camera to choose from to focus on. Then add the fact that there are many people moving around.

I've always done well with sports mode in the past for other sports. But in soccer, and even football, there's usually just a couple (or a few at most) kids in the frame with mostly grass in the background. And I think spectators in the background at other sports are farther away from the action, so the camera is not tempted to mis-focus in sports mode. Or maybe my son is just SO fast the camera couldn't focus in time!! :lmao: (OK.... he's FAST, but it IS his first season....)

There's another meet today. I'm thinking I'll ditch the sports mode and go shutter priority. I thought I'd go 1/400 or so and use one-shot focus with it set to the center point.

Does this sound like a better approach? Anyone have other suggestions? You know..... other than hopping the fence to find a better angle ON the field with less background clutter.... Wouldn't want to embarrass him you know! :lmao: (although he'd tell you that ship sailed LONG ago.....)
1/500
f5.6
ISO 400
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/mom2rtk/timmyrun800.jpg

1/500
f5.6
ISO 400
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/mom2rtk/timmyrun2800.jpg

[Suburbanmom]

What focus mode are you using? There are 3 on my Nikon D300 and I find that with shooting sports action, it is important to use (C)-continuous-servo AF.


(S) - Instant single-servo AF will give you a fixed foucs point when you hold the shutter button half-way (I hear a little beep to let me know that focus is fixed)
(C) - Continuous-servo AF will keep focusing on whatever you are focusing on in the viewfinder (ie...it keeps adjusting the focus as your subject moves...great for sports!
and (M) manual which means you have to do all the focusing yourself (not great for actions ;) )

Keep your shutter speed fast and your button pressed half-way and you should be able to catch the action clearly.
My son is also a distance runner, so I know you will have lots of opportunity to practice. Best of luck today!

http://amyhenkel.zenfolio.com/img/v0/p764463044-4.jpg

[Mosca]

I think the technical stuff is secondary to the fact that your son doesn't stand out from the background in these shots. Can you get to a place on the track where he is running right at the camera? That will put some distance between him and the background (except for the runners chasing him).

If you're comfortable on "sports" for your exposure, leave it there. It's the focus tracking that you want to use. Set your auto focus mode to "AI Focus" (on Canon, "AF-C" on Nikon) so that the camera's autofocus will track him as he runs toward you.

[ThurlFan]

You could try putting your autofocus in AI-Servo mode. What this will do is continue to adjust the focus for a moving subject while you compose. Hold the button down halfway and as he moves toward you the camera will attempt to keep him in focus as best it can.

Look in the manual (p 60) for (I also have an XSi) for more explanation on the different autofocus modes.

You may not be able to adjust this in Sports mode - Tv mode (shutter priority) may work for you, set the shutter speed to 1/320 or 1/400 to freeze the action. In this mode, the camera will select the aperture for you, but you still have control over which ISO setting you want.

Good luck!

PS: Amy, I had the same thought it just took me longer to articulate. I looked at the exif data and saw she's shooting a Rebel XSi same as me, hence the difference in names for the settings ;)

[disneyboy2003]

Looks like your camera is already choosing 1/500 sec for your shutter speed. That's probably the minimum you'd want to go for track / running. I wonder if you can try going faster on your shutter speed, say 1/1000 sec?

Also, are you selecting a single autofocus point? Or are you letting the camera "randomly" select the autofocus point (don't do this)? If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend selecting the center autofocus point. That way, *you* have control over the exact place for the camera to look for autofocus.

Does your camera have an "AI Servo" mode? (btw, "AI" stands for "artificial intelligence") Actually, your Canon XSi does have "AI Servo". Think of it as a predictive autofocus for moving subjects. You press the shutter button 1/2-way down and track your subject (your son) for about 1-2 seconds. That way, your camera knows what & where the subject is, and it can calculate & predict where the subject will be when you're ready to press the shutter all the way down to take the photo. All this "AI Servo" stuff should help you get sharper photos of moving subjects.

Because of this, I probably would not go with one-shot focus. The risk of one-shot focus is that during the few milliseconds between achieving autofocus and actually taking the photo, your subject could have moved enough that he is no longer in focus when the photo is actually taken.

One other thought. Do you have a "faster" lens (ie. a lens with a larger aperture)? I'm not sure what lens you actually used, but I see that your focal lengths were 109mm and 119mm respectively, so I assume it's a zoom lens with a variable aperture? (Edited to add: Oops, I forgot that you did mention your lens above.) If you find that you'll be shooting at around the 100mm focal length during track season, I wonder if you'd be better off with the 100mm f/2 lens (about $400 from B&H: link (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12058-USA/Canon_2518A003_Telephoto_EF_100mm_f_2_0.html)). At f/2, this lens will let in about 8x more light than your lens at f/5.6, which will then allow you to use those faster shutter speeds.

I don't have any track photos handy (I have some from 2008 that I haven't touched or uploaded yet :sad2:), but here are some short-track speed skating photos I took last month. I'd guess that their speeds on ice were much faster than folks running on track.

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/803041918_EiQvY-L.jpg
ISO 800, 148mm, f/2.8, 1/1600 sec

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/803042749_LBh3f-L.jpg
ISO 800, 195mm, f/2.8, 1/1600 sec

[Suburbanmom]

PS: Amy, I had the same thought it just took me longer to articulate. I looked at the exif data and saw she's shooting a Rebel XSi same as me, hence the difference in names for the settings ;)

I thought about that after I hit "submit reply"...figured someone would chime in and give the Canon tech terms. :)

[llrain]

definitely ditch the auto all together, you will learn more.
High shutterspeed to freeze the subject in action is key.
Look at the examples posted. I would go with at least 1/1000
and work your way to 1/2000

[mom2rtk]

What focus mode are you using? There are 3 on my Nikon D300 and I find that with shooting sports action, it is important to use (C)-continuous-servo AF.


(S) - Instant single-servo AF will give you a fixed foucs point when you hold the shutter button half-way (I hear a little beep to let me know that focus is fixed)
(C) - Continuous-servo AF will keep focusing on whatever you are focusing on in the viewfinder (ie...it keeps adjusting the focus as your subject moves...great for sports!
and (M) manual which means you have to do all the focusing yourself (not great for actions ;) )

Keep your shutter speed fast and your button pressed half-way and you should be able to catch the action clearly.
My son is also a distance runner, so I know you will have lots of opportunity to practice. Best of luck today!

http://amyhenkel.zenfolio.com/img/v0/p764463044-4.jpg


AMY - Thanks for the quick reply. Great shot of your son! This was my first time to even attend a track meet, so I had no idea what to expect, not even which direction he would be running! What kind of lens do you use for track?

I think the technical stuff is secondary to the fact that your son doesn't stand out from the background in these shots. Can you get to a place on the track where he is running right at the camera? That will put some distance between him and the background (except for the runners chasing him).

If you're comfortable on "sports" for your exposure, leave it there. It's the focus tracking that you want to use. Set your auto focus mode to "AI Focus" (on Canon, "AF-C" on Nikon) so that the camera's autofocus will track him as he runs toward you.

The more I think about it, the more I do think all that background clutter was the problem. But right now I'm not sure if I will have other options. That was the setup on our home field track, so it's not likely to change. I don't believe parents were allowed beyond the fence into the track area.

In retrospect, I'm thinking now maybe I should have gone down around the bend of the track. It would put me MUCH farther from the action, but if it's sunny, my 270 should provide the extra reach.


You could try putting your autofocus in AI-Servo mode. What this will do is continue to adjust the focus for a moving subject while you compose. Hold the button down halfway and as he moves toward you the camera will attempt to keep him in focus as best it can.

Look in the manual (p 60) for (I also have an XSi) for more explanation on the different autofocus modes.

You may not be able to adjust this in Sports mode - Tv mode (shutter priority) may work for you, set the shutter speed to 1/320 or 1/400 to freeze the action. In this mode, the camera will select the aperture for you, but you still have control over which ISO setting you want.

Good luck!

PS: Amy, I had the same thought it just took me longer to articulate. I looked at the exif data and saw she's shooting a Rebel XSi same as me, hence the difference in names for the settings ;)

You know, I'm eternally grateful to anyone who can actually quote a page number to me in my manual!! Thank you! :thumbsup2

AI servo is the mode where the focus and exposure continues to adjust. Isn't this what I was using when it was in sports mode anyway? I know it's perfect for a moving subject, but when there's all that background clutter so close, isn't it more likely it might decide to focus on something else?

I know I'll do better on one count today: Yesterday my son ran 2 events. He told me to be there at 3:45, but when I got there I found out he had already run one of them! Note to self: Regardless of what teenage son says.... arrive a little early.... Bring camera manual to read for the umpteenth time while waiting.....

Many thanks to everyone for helping me out!

[disneyboy2003]

AI servo is the mode where the focus and exposure continues to adjust. Isn't this what I was using when it was in sports mode anyway? I know it's perfect for a moving subject, but when there's all that background clutter so close, isn't it more likely it might decide to focus on something else?

With AI Servo, you press the shutter 1/2-way down and you keep the camera's center autofocus point on your subject the whole time. Sometimes, that means you move the camera with your subject. Or, when your subject is running straight toward you, you don't have to move the camera at all...just keep the center autofocus point directly on your subject.


Bring camera manual to read for the umpteenth time while waiting.....

One thing you can do is download the PDF version of your camera's user manual and load it onto your iPhone or BlackBerry. Here's the link to the PDF version of your camera manual: http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/3/0300000933/01/EOSRXSi-EOS450D_EN.pdf

I think you actually did really good for being a first-time track photographer. :)

[mom2rtk]

Looks like your camera is already choosing 1/500 sec for your shutter speed. That's probably the minimum you'd want to go for track / running. I wonder if you can try going faster on your shutter speed, say 1/1000 sec?

Also, are you selecting a single autofocus point? Or are you letting the camera "randomly" select the autofocus point (don't do this)? If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend selecting the center autofocus point. That way, *you* have control over the exact place for the camera to look for autofocus.

Does your camera have an "AI Servo" mode? (btw, "AI" stands for "artificial intelligence") Actually, your Canon XSi does have "AI Servo". Think of it as a predictive autofocus for moving subjects. You press the shutter button 1/2-way down and track your subject (your son) for about 1-2 seconds. That way, your camera knows what & where the subject is, and it can calculate & predict where the subject will be when you're ready to press the shutter all the way down to take the photo. All this "AI Servo" stuff should help you get sharper photos of moving subjects.

Because of this, I probably would not go with one-shot focus. The risk of one-shot focus is that during the few milliseconds between achieving autofocus and actually taking the photo, your subject could have moved enough that he is no longer in focus when the photo is actually taken.

One other thought. Do you have a "faster" lens (ie. a lens with a larger aperture)? I'm not sure what lens you actually used, but I see that your focal lengths were 109mm and 119mm respectively, so I assume it's a zoom lens with a variable aperture? If you find that you'll be shooting at around the 100mm focal length during track season, I wonder if you'd be better off with the 100mm f/2 lens (about $400 from B&H: link (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12058-USA/Canon_2518A003_Telephoto_EF_100mm_f_2_0.html)). At f/2, this lens will let in about 8x more light than your lens at f/5.6, which will then allow you to use those faster shutter speeds.

I don't have any track photos handy (I have some from 2008 that I haven't touched or uploaded yet :sad2:), but here are some short-track speed skating photos I took last month. I'd guess that their speeds on ice were much faster than folks running on track.

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/803041918_EiQvY-L.jpg
ISO 800, 148mm, f/2.8, 1/1600 sec

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/803042749_LBh3f-L.jpg
ISO 800, 195mm, f/2.8, 1/1600 sec


Yes, I was using my Tamron 18-270 with a variable aperture. I do now have the Sigma 50-150 f2.8 and am sad to admit had it along in my bag. :scared1: I honestly thought with the bright sunlight yesterday that the Tamron would be better because of the extra reach. Remember when the event started I had no idea what the setup would be so I didn't know what focal length I would need.

I have been ditching the auto modes more often than not lately. But without knowing what to expect yesterday, I opted for sports mode.

Here's my confusion? Doesn't sports mode just preselect the AI servo mode and a fast shutter speed ANYWAY? That's what made me think I needed a different approach.

The meet today is at a different high school, so once again, I don't know they layout. But I'll switch to the faster Sigma lens, select AI servo and 1/1000 for the shutter speed.... and hope for the best.

Part of my problem is that I don't know the coach, and my son is new to the team, so I'm way less likely to push my luck on how close to get and where to stand. Maybe I'll wear dark sunglasses and a trenchcoat and pretend not to know my son :rotfl2:.....Over time, hopefully I'll have a little more leeway. Maybe I'll snap more pics of the kids in the other races to give the coach.... The sad part is I got better pics of my son's friend yesterday than I did of my own son!

[ThurlFan]

One thing I try to do at any event where I want pics of a particular person is take some throwaway pictures of someone else who appears earlier in the program. If your son is in the boys 3000 meter race and there's a girls 3000m shortly beforehand, try getting some pictures of the girls with various settings and see what seems to work. I know it's not always the easiest to evaluate picture quality on a little LCD but it's better than no information at all, and you're better prepared for the pictures that mean something to you.

[mom2rtk]

With AI Servo, you press the shutter 1/2-way down and you keep the camera's center autofocus point on your subject the whole time. Sometimes, that means you move the camera with your subject. Or, when your subject is running straight toward you, you don't have to move the camera at all...just keep the center autofocus point directly on your subject.




One thing you can do is download the PDF version of your camera's user manual and load it onto your iPhone or BlackBerry. Here's the link to the PDF version of your camera manual: http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/3/0300000933/01/EOSRXSi-EOS450D_EN.pdf


I think you actually did really good for being a first-time track photographer. :)


First, many thanks for the vote of confidence! :goodvibes

I still think that's the way the sports mode works. I point it, keep it half way down, and I actually hear it continually adjusting. Regardless, I'll try accessing AI Servo manually this time.

And I love your idea of downloading my manual to my phone. But I'm guessing my circa 2007 flip phone won't cut it! :scared1: YIKES! My secret is out.... I'm a techno-nerd!! (Dare I admit that I still use Photoshop Elements 2.0??? DOUBLE:scared1::scared1:)

[mom2rtk]

One thing I try to do at any event where I want pics of a particular person is take some throwaway pictures of someone else who appears earlier in the program. If your son is in the boys 3000 meter race and there's a girls 3000m shortly beforehand, try getting some pictures of the girls with various settings and see what seems to work. I know it's not always the easiest to evaluate picture quality on a little LCD but it's better than no information at all, and you're better prepared for the pictures that mean something to you.

Yes, I admit, since it was a home field meet, I was chatting with the other parents more than practicing! Today is an away meet so I probably won't know another soul there.... perfect for "focusing" on the photography!

The problem I had with the focus really wasn't apparent on the small screen though, especially since it was pretty sunny out. But you can bet I'll be practicing on those other events today too. :thumbsup2 (It's that or the camera manual, remember.....)

[Suburbanmom]

AMY - Thanks for the quick reply. Great shot of your son! This was my first time to even attend a track meet, so I had no idea what to expect, not even which direction he would be running! What kind of lens do you use for track?

I use my 70-200mm f/2.8, but I think your Tamron or Sigma will do fine. I'd pick the Sigma first because of the f/2.8, but on a sunny day I'd give the Tamron a try. It really depends on how close you can get to the track. If he runs cross-country in the fall, you will be able to get a lot closer to the runners.

ThurlFan has a good idea about taking practice shots of other people's kids. My other suggestion is to get friendly with the yearbook advisor, offer to give him/her shots for the yearbook and see if you can get a press pass onto the field. ;)

[Mosca]

The more I think about it, the more I do think all that background clutter was the problem. But right now I'm not sure if I will have other options. That was the setup on our home field track, so it's not likely to change. I don't believe parents were allowed beyond the fence into the track area.

You know what, though, it doesn't hurt to ask, ask for a photographer's pass or something. Sometimes you get one. Make friends with a coach, and tell him/her that you'll shoot the meet and share the pictures. Some pretty amazing stuff can happen.. or not, but you never know, y'know?

[disneyboy2003]

Here's my confusion? Doesn't sports mode just preselect the AI servo mode and a fast shutter speed ANYWAY? That's what made me think I needed a different approach.

Actually, I think you're right. I think that Sports Mode automatically selects "AI Focus" (which is actually a combination of One-Shot autofocus + AI Servo, depending on if your subject is moving). However, it looks like even on Sports Mode, your camera selected a shutter speed of 1/500 sec. I'd still try for at least 1/1000 sec for track.

Maybe I'll snap more pics of the kids in the other races to give the coach.... The sad part is I got better pics of my son's friend yesterday than I did of my own son!

I think that's how a lot of parents get started...and fund their expensive photo hobby. $$$$$$$ :idea:

[mom2rtk]

I use my 70-200mm f/2.8, but I think your Tamron or Sigma will do fine. I'd pick the Sigma first because of the f/2.8, but on a sunny day I'd give the Tamron a try. It really depends on how close you can get to the track. If he runs cross-country in the fall, you will be able to get a lot closer to the runners.

ThurlFan has a good idea about taking practice shots of other people's kids. My other suggestion is to get friendly with the yearbook advisor, offer to give him/her shots for the yearbook and see if you can get a press pass onto the field. ;)

You know what, though, it doesn't hurt to ask, ask for a photographer's pass or something. Sometimes you get one. Make friends with a coach, and tell him/her that you'll shoot the meet and share the pictures. Some pretty amazing stuff can happen.. or not, but you never know, y'know?

Amy, I'm bringing both lenses today and will see what I think. If it's bright sunshine, I'll stick with the Tamron, but if it clouds over any I'll go to the Sigma. Unless I'm farther away than yesterday.

Great ideas from both of you on gaining access. I'll have to develop that part of it slowly. I'm not sure if my son wants me on the field, press pass or not. I'll take his feelings into consideration first.

[mom2rtk]

Actually, I think you're right. I think that Sports Mode automatically selects "AI Focus" (which is actually a combination of One-Shot autofocus + AI Servo, depending on if your subject is moving). However, it looks like even on Sports Mode, your camera selected a shutter speed of 1/500 sec. I'd still try for at least 1/1000 sec for track.



I think that's how a lot of parents get started...and fund their expensive photo hobby. $$$$$$$ :idea:


You know.... :idea: It did cloud over just a bit later in the afternoon. I had settled on the Tamron because of the bright sun when it started, but I think it got a little cloudy. Maybe the lens was at max aperture and 1/500 was all it could muster...... :idea: The wheels are turning.... they might be a little slow.... but they are turning.

The sun's out again today, but who knows by afternoon again. That Sigma might get a good workout.....

[mom2rtk]

One last question:

Assuming it's still sunny, would I go with a 200 ISO?

If it clouds over, maybe 400? Or should I just wait and see how low I can go with a 1/1000 shutter speed?

[handicap18]

Not sure if someone posted it and I missed or it wasn't brought up. Either way I'll throw it out there.

I know someone mentioned focus modes, but from what I saw mentioned it was between manual, single and continuous (servo). For moving objects, as has already been stated, use continuous (servo).

What I didn't see mention was the focus points that you see in your view finder. There should be a few options with that as well. For something so specific as to get 1 person within a bunch in focus, I change your focus points to single. Then use the thumb wheel on the back of the camera to move between the different points in the view finder. This way YOU have complete control over what in the view finder gets focused on. If you let the camera choose what focus points to use (and when that happens the camera will choose multiple points) you don't know what the camera see's as opposed to what YOU see.

Basically, use single point focus in continuous focus mode. This way you find what you want in focus and as it moves the camera will refocus on that point (so long as you hold the shutter 1/2 way).

[disneyboy2003]

One last question:

Assuming it's still sunny, would I go with a 200 ISO?

If it clouds over, maybe 400? Or should I just wait and see how low I can go with a 1/1000 shutter speed?

Yes, I'd go with whatever ISO it takes to get you that 1/1000 sec shutter speed.

Actually, your camera's sensor should be good enough that ISO 400 should produce very good, relatively noise-free photos.

[mom2rtk]

Well, I'm back from the track meet (finally!) and am much happier with today's results!
1/1000 f5.6 ISO 200
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/mom2rtk/timmyrun3.jpg

1/1000 f4.5 ISO 200
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/mom2rtk/timmyrun4.jpg

1/1000 f5.0 ISO 200
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/mom2rtk/timmyrun6.jpg

ISO 1/1000 f4.5 ISO 200
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/mom2rtk/timmyrun7.jpg

Still an awful lot of clutter in the background, but it helps to have my subject in sharp focus. (Another thought I had after the fact was that maybe I should have tried Aperture Priority at 2.8 in hopes of fuzzing out some of that background clutter.)

I started out with the Tamron lens set to Tv at 1/1000, ISO 200, AI Servo, continuous shooting. It was BRIGHT sunshine, but my aperture was still maxing out at 5.6, so I opted to switch to the Sigma 50-150 f2.8.

I was much happier with the results. The only bad thing is I'm not sure which of the changes I made was the real answer to my problem! :lmao: Regardless, the entire thinking process was really helpful!

He was supposed to run in the last event of the night around sundown, so I was practicing on other kids in the lower light. I bumped my ISO up to 1600 and moved my shutter speed down to what it could still handle (around 1/400) and was STILL happy with the result, although I won't post here since the shots are other kids. One of the reasons I bought the Sigma were for low light soccer games in the fall, so I feel confident now that it will meet that need pretty well.

Many thanks to all for your help today!

If you have other thoughts or suggestions, feel free to post away!

[mom2rtk]

Not sure if someone posted it and I missed or it wasn't brought up. Either way I'll throw it out there.

I know someone mentioned focus modes, but from what I saw mentioned it was between manual, single and continuous (servo). For moving objects, as has already been stated, use continuous (servo).

What I didn't see mention was the focus points that you see in your view finder. There should be a few options with that as well. For something so specific as to get 1 person within a bunch in focus, I change your focus points to single. Then use the thumb wheel on the back of the camera to move between the different points in the view finder. This way YOU have complete control over what in the view finder gets focused on. If you let the camera choose what focus points to use (and when that happens the camera will choose multiple points) you don't know what the camera see's as opposed to what YOU see.

Basically, use single point focus in continuous focus mode. This way you find what you want in focus and as it moves the camera will refocus on that point (so long as you hold the shutter 1/2 way).

Many thanks for your help to Kyle! I did end up using the center point in the viewfinder with continuous (AI Servo) focus. It worked much better this time!

[disneyboy2003]

Well, I'm back from the track meet (finally!) and am much happier with today's results!

Still an awful lot of clutter in the background, but it helps to have my subject in sharp focus. (Another thought I had after the fact was that maybe I should have tried Aperture Priority at 2.8 in hopes of fuzzing out some of that background clutter.)

I started out with the Tamron lens set to Tv at 1/1000, ISO 200, AI Servo, continuous shooting. It was BRIGHT sunshine, but my aperture was still maxing out at 5.6, so I opted to switch to the Sigma 50-150 f2.8.

I was much happier with the results. The only bad thing is I'm not sure which of the changes I made was the real answer to my problem! :lmao: Regardless, the entire thinking process was really helpful!

Ahhhhhhh! Somehow, my eyes feel better seeing your sharper photos. :) Great job! :thumbsup2

You mentioned that you want to try to blur out some of the background. Since you're using Shutter Priority (Tv), you could have probably gone with even faster shutter speeds, like 1/2000 sec or even 1/4000 sec, and your camera would have automatically selected f/2.8 for the aperture.

However, I'm not sure if you'd be able to *completely* blur out the background, despite an f/2.8 aperture. Because of your far distance from your subject, your depth of field will likely be large. In other words, you're still going to have much of the background that's in-focus. Other athletes in the background who are lounging around on the field and who are close to your son will likely be in-focus, despite your f/2.8 aperture.

Anyway, great job on your 2nd attempt! :thumbsup2

[disneyboy2003]

Okay, there actually is a way to blur the background, but it involves Photoshop. Basically, I cut your son out of the picture, blurred the rest of the image, and placed your son back on top of the blurred image. I didn't spend as much time as I should have to make a "clean" cut, but I wanted to do this as a "proof of concept."

Maybe it looks fake. Maybe it looks "artistic". Maybe it looks slightly real. I'll let you decide.

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/824662882_34BFE-O.jpg
I used "Gaussian blur" to blur the background.

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/824662891_nmCh3-O.jpg
I used "motion blur" to blur the background.


Selecting & cutting a subject from a background is not an insignificant process. It actually takes several minutes, so you probably wouldn't do this for all your photos. I'd just do this only for maybe 1 or 2 special photos.

Anyway, just a thought. :)

[mom2rtk]

First, thanks Disneyboy for the kind words of encouragement! :goodvibes My eyes also felt much better seeing the new photos! :lmao: I couldn't wait last night to download the new batch and see how I did. That sun was so bright yesterday that there was no way to tell on the LCD screen.

And thank you for showing me what's possible in Photoshop! I hope once I master the technical stuff IN the camera that I can learn how to post process. I just have an old Photoshop Elements 2.0 that came with my first DSLR in 2004! :lmao: But all I really do with that is crop, lighten and adjust contrast.

Most of my photos end up in my scrapbooks, and the effects you illustrated for me would be great to use there. :thumbsup2

[Suburbanmom]

Nicely done! These photos are great! Best wishes for a successful track season (for you and your son :) )

[mom2rtk]

Nicely done! These photos are great! Best wishes for a successful track season (for you and your son :) )

Thanks Amy! :goodvibes I really appreciate you guys helping me think this through yesterday. He's only a freshman, so we have many photo ops.... errrr....I mean meets.... still ahead of us!

I was happy with my shots. My son was happy to shave 11 seconds off his mile, so it was a good day all around. :)

[mouselovenfamily]

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/mom2rtk/timmyrun7.jpg



Although the blur looks nice in the photos, I would keep this one clear so you can read the "BLUE SPRINGS" on the girls shirt in the back ground!:lmao::lmao:

Nice photos!!

[mom2rtk]

Although the blur looks nice in the photos, I would keep this one clear so you can read the "BLUE SPRINGS" on the girls shirt in the back ground!:lmao::lmao:

Nice photos!!


Howdy! I wasn't "getting" the post at first.... then I remembered I had a buddy out in that neck of the woods! Too bad I didn't think ahead and let you know I'd be out in your neighborhood. Maybe we could have met up for an impromptu photo lesson! (you know... assuming you could figure out my Canon! :lmao:)

I'm starting to figure out there is plenty of time between events at a track meet for photography lessons...... probably a nap too....... but it was still a lot of fun!

BTW: I'm not sure of the final results, but I'm pretty sure Chrisman beat Blue Springs in every event......

[mouselovenfamily]

Howdy! I wasn't "getting" the post at first.... then I remembered I had a buddy out in that neck of the woods! Too bad I didn't think ahead and let you know I'd be out in your neighborhood. Maybe we could have met up for an impromptu photo lesson! (you know... assuming you could figure out my Canon! :lmao:)

I'm starting to figure out there is plenty of time between events at a track meet for photography lessons...... probably a nap too....... but it was still a lot of fun!

BTW: I'm not sure of the final results, but I'm pretty sure Chrisman beat Blue Springs in every event......

OUCH!:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

My daughter is no athlete so I really don't keep up on a lot of the sports up there. We do attend football and basketball for my budding star in 7th grade. My husband has his name on some banners in the gym from our high school days, and it's Nathans goal to get his name up there by his dads. That would make a nice photo!! Glad you had good weather! Let me konw if you come back and I can meet ya, even though you have a Canon!

[mom2rtk]

[/B]
OUCH!:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

My daughter is no athlete so I really don't keep up on a lot of the sports up there. We do attend football and basketball for my budding star in 7th grade. My husband has his name on some banners in the gym from our high school days, and it's Nathans goal to get his name up there by his dads. That would make a nice photo!! Glad you had good weather! Let me konw if you come back and I can meet ya, even though you have a Canon!

Actually that really was a joke. Chrisman rarely wins anything. For my son, it's about having fun with his buddies. It would be really cool for your son to add his name to his dad's in the gym!

[ThurlFan]

Say, the Kansas Relays are coming up in a couple weeks. Would be a great place to sharpen your skills. It's at KU's Memorial stadium and there's always room along the edge of the track in the stands. I had a great time there last year even though I didn't have anyone competing (I just like a good track meet).

[mom2rtk]

Say, the Kansas Relays are coming up in a couple weeks. Would be a great place to sharpen your skills. It's at KU's Memorial stadium and there's always room along the edge of the track in the stands. I had a great time there last year even though I didn't have anyone competing (I just like a good track meet).

I appreciate the thought. But we try hard not to mention the name "KU" around here, so I'm pretty sure I'd never talk my husband into stepping foot onto the campus with me....... I haven't been there since "KU Band Day" back in the late 70's.... clarinet in hand......

[disneyboy2003]

First, thanks Disneyboy for the kind words of encouragement! :goodvibes My eyes also felt much better seeing the new photos! :lmao: I couldn't wait last night to download the new batch and see how I did. That sun was so bright yesterday that there was no way to tell on the LCD screen.

There's actually a solution to this, if you're willing to spend another $80. The Hoodman HoodLoupe is an eyepiece that you place on your LCD screen any time you want to review your images in direct, bright sunlight. Here's the link to their Web site (which includes a brief 1-minute YouTube video on how to use it): http://www.hoodmanusa.com/products.asp?dept=1017

So if you think you'll be taking photos a lot in bright sunlight, this may be worthwhile. This is what the HoodLoupe looks like, when viewing your LCD screen:

http://www.hoodmanusa.com/images/H-LPP30.gif


And thank you for showing me what's possible in Photoshop! I hope once I master the technical stuff IN the camera that I can learn how to post process. I just have an old Photoshop Elements 2.0 that came with my first DSLR in 2004! :lmao: But all I really do with that is crop, lighten and adjust contrast.

Most of my photos end up in my scrapbooks, and the effects you illustrated for me would be great to use there. :thumbsup2

It might be worthwhile to just get the newest version of Photoshop Elements (currently v8.0) plus a Photoshop Elements book. Learning photography AND learning post-processing techniques almost go hand-in-hand, especially these days with digital photography. Amazon currently has Photoshop Elements 8 for $77 (link (http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-65045174-Photoshop-Elements-8/dp/B002ID8R3Y)). I'll bet a lot of scrapbookers are using Photoshop Elements, too.

For a book, I really like Scott Kelby's way of teaching Photoshop because he breaks everything down into simple step-by-step instructions and has screen captures of each step, so there are TONS of screen captures. So I'd recommend his book The Photoshop Elements 8 Book for Digital Photographers for $31.50 on Amazon (link (http://www.amazon.com/Photoshop-Elements-Digital-Photographers-Voices/dp/0321660331/ref=pd_sim_sw_3)). You should probably go to your local bookstore to flip through this book, just to make sure it fits your reading and learning style. Plus, you can browse through some of the other Photoshop Elements books, just to be sure.

Anyway, I just helped you spend another $190. :) Isn't photography fun?

[MICKEY88]

Okay, there actually is a way to blur the background, but it involves Photoshop. Basically, I cut your son out of the picture, blurred the rest of the image, and placed your son back on top of the blurred image. I didn't spend as much time as I should have to make a "clean" cut, but I wanted to do this as a "proof of concept."

Maybe it looks fake. Maybe it looks "artistic". Maybe it looks slightly real. I'll let you decide.

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/824662882_34BFE-O.jpg
I used "Gaussian blur" to blur the background.

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/824662891_nmCh3-O.jpg
I used "motion blur" to blur the background.


Selecting & cutting a subject from a background is not an insignificant process. It actually takes several minutes, so you probably wouldn't do this for all your photos. I'd just do this only for maybe 1 or 2 special photos.

Anyway, just a thought. :)

I use paint shop photo pro x3, but I would think you could do the same with photo shop,

rather than cutting out the subject, just create a new mask layer, blur that layer, then use the erase tool to erase the subject, on thata layer, which in turn allows the clear subject to show, then merge the 2 layers..

if you have difficulty erasing on the blurred layer, you can do 2 things, either up the opacity on that layer so you can see the layer below, then erase and change the opacity back..then merge layers

or copy the original, then blur it, then paste clear copy on top as a new layer, then erase everything , but the subject, again merge layers...

[mom2rtk]

There's actually a solution to this, if you're willing to spend another $80. The Hoodman HoodLoupe is an eyepiece that you place on your LCD screen any time you want to review your images in direct, bright sunlight. Here's the link to their Web site (which includes a brief 1-minute YouTube video on how to use it): http://www.hoodmanusa.com/products.asp?dept=1017

So if you think you'll be taking photos a lot in bright sunlight, this may be worthwhile. This is what the HoodLoupe looks like, when viewing your LCD screen:

http://www.hoodmanusa.com/images/H-LPP30.gif




It might be worthwhile to just get the newest version of Photoshop Elements (currently v8.0) plus a Photoshop Elements book. Learning photography AND learning post-processing techniques almost go hand-in-hand, especially these days with digital photography. Amazon currently has Photoshop Elements 8 for $77 (link (http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-65045174-Photoshop-Elements-8/dp/B002ID8R3Y)). I'll bet a lot of scrapbookers are using Photoshop Elements, too.

For a book, I really like Scott Kelby's way of teaching Photoshop because he breaks everything down into simple step-by-step instructions and has screen captures of each step, so there are TONS of screen captures. So I'd recommend his book The Photoshop Elements 8 Book for Digital Photographers for $31.50 on Amazon (link (http://www.amazon.com/Photoshop-Elements-Digital-Photographers-Voices/dp/0321660331/ref=pd_sim_sw_3)). You should probably go to your local bookstore to flip through this book, just to make sure it fits your reading and learning style. Plus, you can browse through some of the other Photoshop Elements books, just to be sure.

Anyway, I just helped you spend another $190. :) Isn't photography fun?



Very cool! I didn't know they made anything like that! It would be fun to try sometime. I didn't even know they made such a thing!

And yes, I do need to upgrade to a newer Photoshop elements. I could probably afford it, but right now just hate the idea of a new learning curve. Between 3 kids and the costume biz, most days I don't even know which end is up...... But one day soon.

I love that I've been able to advance my photography just by hanging out here on the DIS and checking in while waiting for the iron to heat up or in the 5 minutes until I have to run someone to school. Life will slow down soon, right????

I will have some time on our road trip this summer. But the laptop battery won't hold a charge, and I'm afraid Photoshop (even elements) will overload my husband's netbook. :confused3

[MICKEY88]

here is another device for viewing your lcd in bright light

http://www.delkin.com/products/popupshades/

[ThurlFan]

I appreciate the thought. But we try hard not to mention the name "KU" around here, so I'm pretty sure I'd never talk my husband into stepping foot onto the campus with me....... I haven't been there since "KU Band Day" back in the late 70's.... clarinet in hand......

Oh, you must be one of 'them' :scared1:

I'm a proud Jayhawker myself :rolleyes1

[Coach K]

I have been shooting cross country and track and field for over 30 years and am still finding new angles and subjects every time I shoot. I always set my focus to manual and pre-focus on a spot. I have never gone faster than 1/500 or even 1/250. I found that this was fast enough to stop the action for the distance events. You may want to go faster if your are trying to shoot other events (like the sprints or field events). I always try to get the start and finish. In between I would try to shoot at the top of the curve as they are entering the back straight or coming out of the final curve and entering the home straight. Usually there is not to much clutter in the background at these points-but this depends on the set-up of the track-where the concession stands are, etc. I agree with what a PP had stated about the KU Relays. This would be a great spot to go to get experience about shooting the sport. It wouldn't hurt to take your son-you can learn a lot about the sport by observing how things are done at a very high level. You can also appreciate what the athletes have to do to compete at that level. I have had my athletes compete at a very high level (the Olympic trails, collegiate nationals, Penn Relays, etc.) and at a more modest level (the unseeded heats at JV meets) and I always come away with an appreciation of the sport and also trying to learn something about how capture it on film (or digital film these days). The more you experiment, the more you learn and find what is best for your setting. Just my 2 cents. Good luck to your son.

[TheGoofster]

With all of these great photographers giving you advice, I feel out of place saying anything, but I did just want to add 2 thoughts.

I know most people seem to be against manual focus (or at least prefer the continuous motion auto-focus), but I would suggest that you at least give manual a try. In some sports events, manual is really hard to get right (like basketball players who constantly stop and go), but I think when shooting track, the subject keeps a relatively steady pace, and you might find it easier to focus on them with just a bit of practice in manual mode. Maybe it's because I shot for so many years using an old SLR that didn't have any kind of auto-focus, but I actually try to use manual focus quite often, and many times I seem to get better results in manual than I do in auto focus.

The other thing I would suggest is giving panning a try. Again, with a subject that keeps to a pretty steady pace, you might be able to pull off some really nice panning shots that would give you some great background effects. There are some people on this board who can give you some really great advice on how to pan (if you're not already familiar with it).

Anyway, best of luck with your shots, and keep posting your results. There are many others like myself who learn so much from seeing the shots, and listening to the advice of others.

[mom2rtk]

Oh, you must be one of 'them' :scared1:

I'm a proud Jayhawker myself :rolleyes1

Well, I'm a not so proud Wildcat myself, just not the Kansas variety. I graduated from Northwestern, home of what was then (and might still be) the losing-est football team in history. So I really don't get all the college sports hoopla.....

But we DO live in Missouri.... and my husband DID graduate from one of the University of MO schools........

So yes..... I'm one of ..... them..... :rolleyes1.... by marriage.........

[mom2rtk]

I have been shooting cross country and track and field for over 30 years and am still finding new angles and subjects every time I shoot. I always set my focus to manual and pre-focus on a spot. I have never gone faster than 1/500 or even 1/250. I found that this was fast enough to stop the action for the distance events. You may want to go faster if your are trying to shoot other events (like the sprints or field events). I always try to get the start and finish. In between I would try to shoot at the top of the curve as they are entering the back straight or coming out of the final curve and entering the home straight. Usually there is not to much clutter in the background at these points-but this depends on the set-up of the track-where the concession stands are, etc. I agree with what a PP had stated about the KU Relays. This would be a great spot to go to get experience about shooting the sport. It wouldn't hurt to take your son-you can learn a lot about the sport by observing how things are done at a very high level. You can also appreciate what the athletes have to do to compete at that level. I have had my athletes compete at a very high level (the Olympic trails, collegiate nationals, Penn Relays, etc.) and at a more modest level (the unseeded heats at JV meets) and I always come away with an appreciation of the sport and also trying to learn something about how capture it on film (or digital film these days). The more you experiment, the more you learn and find what is best for your setting. Just my 2 cents. Good luck to your son.

With all of these great photographers giving you advice, I feel out of place saying anything, but I did just want to add 2 thoughts.

I know most people seem to be against manual focus (or at least prefer the continuous motion auto-focus), but I would suggest that you at least give manual a try. In some sports events, manual is really hard to get right (like basketball players who constantly stop and go), but I think when shooting track, the subject keeps a relatively steady pace, and you might find it easier to focus on them with just a bit of practice in manual mode. Maybe it's because I shot for so many years using an old SLR that didn't have any kind of auto-focus, but I actually try to use manual focus quite often, and many times I seem to get better results in manual than I do in auto focus.

The other thing I would suggest is giving panning a try. Again, with a subject that keeps to a pretty steady pace, you might be able to pull off some really nice panning shots that would give you some great background effects. There are some people on this board who can give you some really great advice on how to pan (if you're not already familiar with it).

Anyway, best of luck with your shots, and keep posting your results. There are many others like myself who learn so much from seeing the shots, and listening to the advice of others.


Well, I have to say, I never even considered manual focus. It's certainly something I could experiment with in the copious amount of time I seem to have between events!

I do think I am going to try harder at the next meet to find a better vantage point. I wanted to be at the start and finish line, but as it turned out, too many players and officials were milling about there and got in the way of my shot (sheesh.... didn't they SEE I was there focused on my son??? :lmao:) And it seemed like he always ended up lined up behind someone anyway. So I'm figuring out that down around the final curve might be a great place to avoid the clutter. I actually had finally found that out at that last meet, and had practiced the shot, only to find out my they made a mistake and my son was really done for the night. So maybe at this week's meet.... but once again it will be at a new venue, so I'll have to figure it out when I get there.

And I think panning is a great idea I hadn't considered! That might be a great in-camera way to blur that clutter a bit, plus give a nice effect.

Thanks for the great suggestions!

[mom2rtk]

here is another device for viewing your lcd in bright light

http://www.delkin.com/products/popupshades/

I use paint shop photo pro x3, but I would think you could do the same with photo shop,

rather than cutting out the subject, just create a new mask layer, blur that layer, then use the erase tool to erase the subject, on thata layer, which in turn allows the clear subject to show, then merge the 2 layers..

if you have difficulty erasing on the blurred layer, you can do 2 things, either up the opacity on that layer so you can see the layer below, then erase and change the opacity back..then merge layers

or copy the original, then blur it, then paste clear copy on top as a new layer, then erase everything , but the subject, again merge layers...

Thanks for the suggestions Mickey88! That pop up shade looks pretty handy too. I guess if my son likes track and decided to stick with it, I might enjoy something like that. Right now he still plans to play soccer in the fall and not do cross-country. But who knows! I do know he's having a lot of fun, and so am I!

[mom2rtk]

So for those of you who followed along and helped: I made several changes in my approach from the first set of photos to the second. What do you think made the second set sharper:

1)The sun was out more on the second day

2) I used Tv at 1/1000 instead of sports mode

3) The Sigma was able to access a slightly larger aperture

4) Maybe the Sigma is just a sharper lens (Tamron 18-270 for first set, Sigma 50-150 f2.8 for the second set)

I don't just want better photos, I want to know WHY they were better so I can continue to learn.

[disneyboy2003]

So for those of you who followed along and helped: I made several changes in my approach from the first set of photos to the second. What do you think made the second set sharper:

1)The sun was out more on the second day

2) I used Tv at 1/1000 instead of sports mode

3) The Sigma was able to access a slightly larger aperture

4) Maybe the Sigma is just a sharper lens (Tamron 18-270 for first set, Sigma 50-150 f2.8 for the second set)

I don't just want better photos, I want to know WHY they were better so I can continue to learn.

Probably a combination of all 4. The first 3 choices pretty much affect each other (ie. having more sun and the larger f/2.8 aperture allowed you to use a faster shutter speed). But I'd guess it was the faster shutter speed that likely made the difference.

I would have guessed the AI Servo autofocus, but sounds like you were using automatically using AI Servo in your first set of pictures.

So in your case, I'd guess it was the faster shutter speed.

[mom2rtk]

Another week, another track meet. This week I found my way down to the back corner to get some less "busy" shots. I just love the way his feet never seem to touch the ground!

I completely forgot I was going to try some "panning" shots. Any suggestions on what shutter speed I would need to use to accomplish this?

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/mom2rtk/timmyrun48.jpg

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/mom2rtk/timmyrun448.jpg

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/mom2rtk/timmyrun548.jpg

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/mom2rtk/timmyrun248.jpg