Disney says attendance is down

[WDWDad]

Last week Disney announced their second quarter earnings and announced that park attendance was week in the second quarter and that advance bookings were down.

I know if I asked if this would be a good time for Disney to reinstate some sort of ticket promotion for DVC we would all love such a program. I am sure that we would get the pro's and con's of such a program. GOOD !

I want Disney to hear them. If park attendance is down, then why not roll out a new program which will encourage the 65,000 DVC members to get out to the parks. I know that there are many DVC members who are annual pass holders and go to the parks many times per year. I also know that there are many members like ourselves who have let park attendance slip, while still staying on property every year.

We find ourselves spending more time near the pools, and water parks, as well as the other Orlando attractions rather than spend our money where it doesn't seem to be as appreciated.

Well what do you think? Should Disney use this time of Lower than expected attendance to throw a bone to their DVC members? Or will the status quo do just fine?

[kem330]

I think Disney considers DVC'ers a done deal- we've already bought and committed to vacations. They are probably more inclined to try and fill all those hotel rooms and market to new or less frequent visitors. (note- I would love to have a discount, I just don't think Disney has any motivation where we're concerned:( )

[doubletrouble_vb]

While it would be nice...Disney would probably lose more than they would gain (because all those members who DO go to the park may go for the incentive instead of the annual pass or 7 Day Hopper. Attendance may be down but DVC itself is doing well. There is no reason for DVC to offer an incentive...and no reason for the Parks part of Disney to offer an incentive to people who already shelled out permanent big bucks to Disney.

It would be more effective for Disney to offer better AAA incentives or the equivalent in the Northeast or overseas than to give anything to a small population like DVC.

[WebmasterDoc]

When OKW members had the free pass incentive, it came from DVD as a sales promotion and NOT from Disney.

Disney is unlikely to offer any free admission tickets to DVC members (or any other group) during a time when park attendance is down and DVC has no reason to offer passes as an incentive when sales are already going strong.

[LarryM]

It seems to me that all the discounts that are given only to Fla. residents and not the rest of us is'nt helping. Last Dec I wrote all the members of the board and suggested that discounts just for Fla. did not make sense becuase they are not helping the overall numbers. They don't have to eat at parks of stay there so maybe now those discounts (extended annual passes) can be looked at for all. When we go from our neck of the woods we rent a car, eat 2 meals a day in the park and stay on property that has to make more sense for them. Lastly maybe the recent changes (early entry , lower hours) are just starting a downward spiral. Just my 2 cents.

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by LarryM
It seems to me that all the discounts that are given only to Fla. residents and not the rest of us is'nt helping. Last Dec I wrote all the members of the board and suggested that discounts just for Fla. did not make sense becuase they are not helping the overall numbers. They don't have to eat at parks of stay there so maybe now those discounts (extended annual passes) can be looked at for all. When we go from our neck of the woods we rent a car, eat 2 meals a day in the park and stay on property that has to make more sense for them. Lastly maybe the recent changes (early entry , lower hours) are just starting a downward spiral. Just my 2 cents.

I respectfully disagree with your observation of Florida discounts. I think it a perfect audience to run discounts for. Most can drive and many do stay onsite.

I also think the the key factor to any attendance downturn is the economy. I also don't think that EE has an impact as it seems, based on many thread not to have been used by the majority of folks. I'm sure the hours have an effect but we don't see the cut since we go in Feb.

[BCVOwner2002]

Not sure if discount to FL residents is giving WDW the "push" they need. I have many friends and relatives that live in FL and have asked if they take advantage to the resident discount. Not one of them does. Most said they purchase one day pass just for the day. They pack a picnic lunch and do not stay overnight since drive is only 2 hours.

Also, have read many posts where DVCers do not go to WDW parks so I think a discount for LOS pass for DVCers would be beneficial to us and Disney!

Just my opinion!

[jimmytammy]

Dont get me wrong Ilove WDW, we are DVCers, got the Disney club card, shareholder, the whole enchilada so to speak. What few yrs. exp. I have been enjoying all things Disney I have come to the conclusion that where outsider advice is concerned, they dont take the time to hear us fans.

I think your idea is great and I would love to see some incentive happen like this but it wont come because we asked for it. This is a huge corporation that has people they pay to study all ways of getting more people to file in the gates of WDW.

I have to agree with a post above, Disney knows they have us as DVCers so they know we are going to generate some cash in their direction automatically. They arent worried about us 60,000 members, they are trying to reach the potential millions of others.

Just my opinion of the matter, with no intention of ruffling feathers I hope.

[DVC Grandpa]

It would be nice if Disney would allow DVC members to purchase a NEW AP at the renewal price. This would permit the purchaser to purchase at the AP at a discounted price and hold the certificate until it is redeemed thus starting a new anniversary date. On our last trip, (although we stay for sixteen days) we purchased a 4 day pass and enjoyed the resort rather than going into a park. We found Orlando restraints rather than going into EPCOT or one of the parks for meals as we always did in the past with our AP. We also have found many other attractions in and around Disney, such as the River Walk and its rest rants that we enjoy. I know Disney has not gotten all our business as they have in the past and basically because of the change in policy on the AP renewal anniversary date.

[Johnnie Fedora]

It's clear from the recent ENOURMOUS increases in points for the DC and the DCL, Disney believes DVCers (and more importantly their $$$$$) are a given. For example, Disney can double the points required to stay in a DC room and many DVCers will still gladly exchange them....Not this DVCer!!

Due to their expense, I know we will not be able to afford passes every year. So this DVCer and his five mouths will be enjoying other more affordable Orlando attractions and dining. The park passes are one of the main reasons we bought some of our points (175) at HHI. We can vacation there 5-6 nights every year for under $500.00 travel and food.

I've never been contacted by a Disney focus group....Have you?? Many large companies do lose touch with their customers, and sometimes I think Disney has.:confused:

[LarryM]

Another thought, the above post is correct that Disney already has our money, but the purchase money is long gone soon after it is received by Disney. If they did not continue to build DVC the only large influx of cash would be our dues and part of that has to go to upkeep so I can't believe that leaves a lot left over. Johnie Fedora is correct I go twice a year if I can but now I spend 30% of my time out of the World. That is up to six meals not on there time.
I just think if you continue to trim at the corporations biggest cash cow it will effect visitors and there spending habits as witnessed by thier own admission about advance bookings not being up to the company's expectations.

[ralphd]

The entire hotel and transportation industry is having problems since 9/11. The attendance is also down in the entire entertainment industry.
As a DVC member, I would like to see some deals for the membership, but as a stockholder I want to see them operate Disney as economically as possible.
We all have an opinion as to what is best for WDW, but maybe we don't know all the facts that management has to make their decisions.

ralphd:) :) :) :)

[drusba]

Maybe I am incorrect but the Disney press release did not exactly say park attendance was down. It did report that last quarter it had reported a 6% decline. This time, for this quarter, it was reporting a 30% decline in international "bookings" (meaning hotel rooms) and 10% in domestic "bookings" (meaning hotel rooms). In other words I am not sure Disney actually said park attendance is down. It is possible (particularly if you have been there lately and seen it ) that park attendance is actually back to or better than normal. Its the hotels that are off (who knows what cut-backs like doing away with ee can do to the hotel bookings?).

[WDWorld]

Hi,

Being from Quebec, Canada and also being webmaster of a site to help french speaking people plan their next trip to Disney, i can tell you that a lot of people from here simply don't go to Disney because it is too expensive and that Disney makes almost nothing to correct this.

It is true that sometimes during the year there are some "at par" specials, etc... but all the travel industry here is set to sell "all inclusive packages" to people wanting to visit Disney.

So the only way to buy a Disney Vacation, thru 90% and more of the travel agents, is to book all-inclusive (plane, resort, ultimate hopper pass). Why ???

First, most of them don't know how disney works. They sell it like a trip to Cuba, Dominican Republic or Puerto Vallarta. They don't know about the discount codes, they don't know about the different kind of passes, they don't know about booking directly from Disney OR they don't want to do the extra work.

Again last week, a friend of mine came to me and asked how could I go twice a year to Disney with a family of 3 children. They went to their travel agency and were quoted for 1 week 10 000$ in an All-Star !!!!! And I can certify that the majority of people from Quebec who want to go to Disney face the same situation. So they change their mind and go somewhere else :(

I met my travel agent and teached her how to book a Disney vacation. The difference in the overall price is so big!!! And when I try to get some informations from Disney, as a webmaster, or ask if there is a kind of web site dedicated to webmasters, the answer is always the same : NO. I don't ask to go there for free or to get anything from them, despite the fact I brought them a lot of business that they wouldn't have had ;) , I just ask some ressources to inform french people. If they are well informed, in their language, and that the price structure is more adapted, there will be more visitors to Disney !!!!

Is this normal that, despite the fact that I am alone doing this for fun, my site is updated most of time before the Official Disney site ? They made a french Canadian site... Yeah !!! All the "important" informations are found thru links to the english site.

Anyway, I think that they are part of the problem and that they'll have to help people helping them !

I hate to seem negative about Disney since I love Disney. I would just like the people who plan a Disney vacation to be served as well as we all are when we are there ;)

Have a great Day everybody :)

[yesdisneyfool]

Originally posted by WDWDad
....I know if I asked if this would be a good time for Disney to reinstate some sort of ticket promotion for DVC we would all love such a program....Well what do you think? Should Disney use this time of Lower than expected attendance to throw a bone to their DVC members? Or will the status quo do just fine?

Would be a nice gift but as previously stated the LOS passes were given by DVD not Disney and Disney already has as locked in until 1/31/2042...even if we spend a fraction of time in the parks that is a plus. JMHO :wave:

[erikthewise]

Charles,

There are any number of travel agencies specializing in WDW vacations, starting with Dreams Unlimited Travel which sponsors the www.wdwinfo.com site. They aren't very hard to find; most major WDW information siites either recommend or are sponsored by such agencies. For the most part these agencies are very happy to help clients book an economical Disney trip including the use of codes. You would do a great service for Canadians by pointing them to several of these agencies.

[Goofy Fan]

As quoted in the Philadelphia Inquirer Saturday, Aug. 3:

"Walt Disney Co. fell $1.52 to $15.31 after meeting expectations but reporting a 7 percent decline in net income for the third quarter. The loss reflected lower theme park attendance, soft advertising sales at its ABC network, and movies that did not do as well as expected. Disney also was cautious about the fourth quarter."

What is hard here is to put yourself in the shoes of executives who have an obligation to Wall Street and to stockholders to generate income. Even though the 3rd QTR results were expected, income dipped 7%, and some of the 7% is due to lower park attendance. The key to recovery is not in offering incentives to DVC members. You've already bought your incentive when you purchased points. I've seen general public promotions all over the place, but these are mainly geared to get you there, ie., airfare, Disney Resorts, etc. But park tickets seem to stay fixed between day passes, hoppers, and AP's. This seems to make business sense in that if they can coax you there with airfare and hotel deals, you'll buy the park tickets. As far as DVC is concerned, you have points to use to stay there every year. They know you're coming on a regular basis regardless of the economy. If you don't, then someone else using your points will or you'll lose points if you don't use them.

As far as Canada is concerned, I think the exchange rate has more to do with high prices than Disney does. Why should Disney be responsible for high exchange rates? Disney is not alone in Orlando, either. Universal ticket prices are just as expensive as Disney, and so are the restaurants that they have.

Investor confidence is one facet that puts the market back on a recovery. For us and Disney, that means going down to WDW and spending $$$$. The incentives ARE there to get people to go down. People just aren't going like they used to - yet

[sgtpet]

DIS stock is down to 14.00 per share. Unbelievable. Is anybody concerned about the company's ability to thrive in the future and what it may mean to our DVC memberships.

[Paul in CT]

I think we would all love a bargain. However, one thing I have always believed is that the park admissions, although expensive, are worth the price. Also, if I am not mistaken, Disney did not raise prices on admissions this year. I honestly don't expect that DVC would gain any significant benefit paying for an incentive for DVC owners nor would Disney benefit from significantly more sales in the parks, IMHO. They do far better by attracting Florida residents to the parks. They far outnumber us DVC'ers. ;)

As sgtpet points outs, Disney as a company has far more significant issues to iron out (spelled "ABC") than incentives for DVC, which appears to be the only thing continuing to sell well for Disney in this economy.

As a stockholder, I hope they come up with some ideas to "stop the bleeding" soon. Until then I plan to continue enjoying my DVC vacations, inside or outside the parks. :)

[WDWDad]

I'm hearing alot of good arguments. I agree that there is no incentive for DVD to fund any type of incentive program. DVC sales are good and it would make no sense. I intentionally did not refer to the prior program which expired at the end of 1999, because I knew that it was devised to help get DVC sales off the ground.

But I believe that a ticket promotion from Disney targeted to DVC members would pay significant benefits to Disney. 65,000 member Families, not individuals, families. Many, like my family, who are taking two trips to Disney per year. Many, like my family of 5, who have cut back on admissions to the parks because now that I have my accomadations taken care of ticket prices are the single biggest hit I take in the wallet. Just because Disney has my initial DVC investment doesn't automatically mean I will give them my money every year, year after year. They're going to have to earn it. Someone else mentioned earlier that sometimes large corporations do lose touch with their customers. I believe that can happen also.

Do the math, plug in your own numbers for how many in your family, how many days in the parks, how much on average do you spend on food and gifts ? Now multiply that # by the number of DVC Members. Is it enough to turn Disneys Financial picture around - No. Would it be a good piece of the answer? I believe it could be.:D

[Dreamfinder2]

Just an aside ... most of the park attendance problems seem to center around Disney's California Adventure. We've not been, but some of our best friends went this past summer and said, "Don't bother." Apparently it's full of off-the-shelf rides and just doesn't have the "magic." And with Disneyland Paris' Disney Studios not doing so hot, either, the Powers that Be have to be a little antsy. I do know that M. Eisner has been accused of being too cozy with his board, but I'm guessing they're reading the writing on the wall. And re: ABC - my naive feeling is that network TV in general is so out of touch with the heartland, they wouldn't know their constituency if we all went and bit 'em on their collective legs.

If anyone knows Paul Pressler (the parks dude), would you please buy a case of toilet paper and roll his yard?

BUT...

Forgive me for parading around with my boundless optimism, but my guess is that as long as there is imagination in the world, Disney will be with us.

[Johnnie Fedora]

If incentives don't mean anything, why were sales so brisk at BVC when there was an incentive? I bet sales have slowed somewhat since then.

Incentives are an effective encouragement for many customers, even if they end up being no more than just a perception of savings.

[manning]

Goofy fan, The first thing my spouse said after we bought was " now that we are coming down more often we can go to other places." You might get us here, but you haven't gotten us in the park yet.

Paul CT, The price of a ticket hasn't gone up, but the hours of operations have been greatly reduced. That is a defacto price increase. Remember that one pound size can of coffee that cost the same, but now has less than a pound of coffee??? They are one and the same thing. They just hope you don't look at the weight marked on the can. Charge the same, but give them less. In the case of Disney, give them less time and they will have to come back to do in two days what used to take one day. Get it? another admission, and cutting costs. Cut the hours, cut the price.

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by manning
Charge the same, but give them less. In the case of Disney, give them less time and they will have to come back to do in two days what used to take one day. Get it? another admission, and cutting costs. Cut the hours, cut the price.

If you have read the Themes Parks Board, the overwhelming number of post say crowds are down or light. So it may be that you can get everything you need to get done in a given park one day.

Manning using your logic, those that go in offseason should pay less. They pay the same as those with longer hours but I've yet to hear whining from those guests.

[johde]

Looking at the companies financials, Park and Resort revenue was down 17% in the quarter ended December 31 2001. By the March 31 quarter Revenues were down 7% and in the June 30 Quarter Revenues were down 5%. Unfortunately there is no way with publicly available information to correlate this decline with a decline in attendance. Park and resort income though is down more than that; 51% in the December quarter, 15% in the March Quarter; 17% in the June Quarter. The other thing I notices is that right now, Parks and Resorts are supplying close to half of the last quarters income.

Themeparks right now are their cash cow as battered as they are right now.

[manning]

No, talking summertime. One of busiest times of the year and hours are cut and prices aren't. There are people complaining that they can't get it all done.

[jimmytammy]

sgtpet

I am a shareholder and DVCer and am not too concerned about the stock. As you know practically all stocks have been down for 2 yrs. plus 9/11. We are new to DVC and I and many others wouldnt have joined this yr. if we thought Disney was in trouble.

[Goofy Fan]

The entire travel industry is down, not just Disney and WDW. Disney has other issues with ABC that affect its stock, but that's beside the point. The entire travel industry is down because few people are hitting the skies and travelling post 9/11.

The original post was about ticket incentives to DVC members so they will go into the parks. I believe most DVC members do go in the parks. You still have annual points post 9/11 that have to be used. Someone is using the points or they are lost. It is the non-DVC population who are not travelling to Florida. If you look at Universal (2 parks), Sea World, Busch Gardens, etc. they are in the exact same boat as Disney. Their ticket prices are as expensive or more expensive that WDW. I may be in the majority, but I do not see my family and I going down to Orlando to soak up the sun and not go in any parks, whether its WDW or not.

The incentives are out there. Airline fares to Orlando are very low. DD hotels going for $25 a night? People ARE NOT traveling, regardless of incentives. If ticket prices were the same prior to 9/11, what could your argument possibly be other than "What Have You Done For Me Lately".

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by manning
No, talking summertime. One of busiest times of the year and hours are cut and prices aren't. There are people complaining that they can't get it all done.

Manning,

The posts on the Themes Parks Board say different. I'm guessing 4 out 5 say it's not that bad crowdwise.

[Goofy Fan]

I was at WDW during the 4th of July holiday. On Sunday and Monday, 4/7 and 4/8, the whole area around BWV, Y&B, Swan & Dolphin was a ghost town. People were waiting more than 15 minutes for boats to MGM and EPCOT. This was the 3rd out of last 4 years that we've been to WDW during 4th of July. You couldn't move other years. What I did not see this time were all the tour groups from South America that seemed to be more prevalent in previous years. Park Attendance IS DOWN! The International traveller is staying put and not coming to the U.S. and WDW. This, along with U.S. residents still not flying is why park attendance IS DOWN. It's OK. You can say it - Park Attendance IS DOWN.

[PKS44]

Originally posted by Goofy Fan
If you look at Universal (2 parks), Sea World, Busch Gardens, etc. they are in the exact same boat as Disney. Their ticket prices are as expensive or more expensive that WDW.

I believe this is incorrect...according to the recent Newsweek piece-"Universal’s attendance has climbed 11 percent in the past two years while Disney’s has slipped 6 percent."

Sounds like Disney is doing something wrong. It is just too easy for Eisner and company to blame it on travel trends--they need to look at the numbers and the mirror and see that they have made mistakes (AK, cutting service, hours reductions, gutting R&D/Imagineering, etc.)

[Goofy Fan]

Actually, what I was referencing there was the ticket prices at other theme parks being as or more expensive than Disney. In referring back to other posters who say they would possibly consider going elsewhere without some type of incentive, it seems that they will pay as much to go to other theme parks while shunning WDW. Hence the "What have you done for me lately" comment.

PKS44, what you didn't do is quote more of the same Newsweek article you referenced. Numbers and percentages are a very "relative" concept. In the same Newsweek article, this also was written:

Universal’s two Florida parks sold 12.8 million tickets last year, up 11 percent from 1999. Attendance this year is ahead of 2001’s pace. Disney’s four parks sold 40 million tickets in 2001, down 6 percent from 1999. Disney’s 2002 reservations are off 10 percent.

The 11% up and 6% down in this case is relative to the total number of tickets sold. I could spin that quote to say WDW outsold Universal by 27.2 millon tickets!

[WDWDad]

You can spin #'s any way you want, but you can't ignore their effect on the bottom line. The #'s translate to 2.5 million less ticket sales for Disney, while down the road you have 1.3 million more. Let's see 2.5 million @ $ 50.00 per ticket = 125 million $. Not including in park sales.

I'm also a Disney shareholder, and I think the stock is getting beat up much more by the economic panic that's happening rather than the economic fundamentals of the company. But then I'm no Wall Street wizard. And it really isn't what I had hoped that this thread would be about.

First, I hope that we have established that attendance is down. The eyewitness reports seem to verify the numbers reported in Newsweek that Disneys attendance is below historic levels.

Second, the projections by Disney for the 4th economic quarter( 3rd quarter on the calender) suggest that the #'s will continue to be soft. Throw in a little trepidation by Wall Street that we could be looking at a double dip in the economy and the outlook doesn't look good for an upturn in attendance #'s.

Finally, can we get away from assuming that just because we have purchased a continuing interest in Disney property that we will go to the parks regardless? Granted many, probably most, families will continue going to the parks. But as the years pass without new attractions and /or incentives will families continue to attend? I believe that many, maybe most, DVC families have already begun cutting back on the days they spend in the parks. I have no evidence to support such a claim other than my experiences in talking with other DVC families on site and my observations here.

Everyone may not agree with #3, but #1 & #2 seem like givens. So in light of these facts, would a park pass incentive ( say something along the lines of The Disney Club discount ) by Disney(not DVD) be in the best interests of both company and DVC members?

[erikthewise]

As a minimum purchase DVC member who plans a 7 or 8-day vacation each year, the question of buying annual passes is a close call. While it wouldn't save money directly, the various perks would be worth spending a little extra, like lower rates when we DO stay at non-DVC resorts, or just being able to duck into Epcot in the evening without having to worry about whether we were wasting a day on our passes.

Virtually any substantial discount, esp being able to buy at renewal rates, would push me over the edge. A DC discount (which we already have) is not quite enough.

[Goofy Fan]

So in light of these facts, would a park pass incentive ( say something along the lines of The Disney Club discount ) by Disney(not DVD) be in the best interests of both company and DVC members?

There's the LOS pass discount that DVC members get already. Also, anyone with a DC membership is getting discounts for park hoppers and AP's. If you're looking for something along the lines of a DC discount as you mentioned, couldn't you just purchase a membership for $35? Is the $35 the stumbling block, or is it something you feel should be double what DC or LOS discounts provide?

[PKS44]

Originally posted by Goofy Fan
Actually, what I was referencing there was the ticket prices at other theme parks being as or more expensive than Disney. In referring back to other posters who say they would possibly consider going elsewhere without some type of incentive, it seems that they will pay as much to go to other theme parks while shunning WDW. Hence the "What have you done for me lately" comment.

PKS44, what you didn't do is quote more of the same Newsweek article you referenced. Numbers and percentages are a very "relative" concept. In the same Newsweek article, this also was written:



The 11% up and 6% down in this case is relative to the total number of tickets sold. I could spin that quote to say WDW outsold Universal by 27.2 millon tickets!

What I was getting at is that the excuse that the economy is the reason for the downturn in WDW attendence does not hold up to the facts...otherwise Universal should have a downturn also...I also would note that WDW invested in AK to try to increase attendance-it has is failing to do that...Universal added IOA to increase attendance- it seems to be working...whether they overspent is a different issue...so WDW is down and Universal is up, that is the point...it is not news that WDW is still the main player in total numbers, but they are shrinking...in business that is bad.

As to the point of the original thread about DVC members' discounts, I am skeptical that a "discount" would increase WDW's bottom line, but I would hope that Disney is at least looking at the numbers to see. That would be a less risky investment in trying to increase attendance than building a "nahtazoo" that is "nahtasuccess."

Paul

[Goofy Fan]

Fair enough.

I think 9/11 still has more to do with it than the economy. European visitors to WDW are down 20% because of 9/11. It will pick up.

As for discount incentives, they are out there. Whether its airfare, hotels, or perpetual ticket discounts available through a few programs, it doesn't seem to be enough right now. I could fly from Phila. to Orlando for $150 and stay at the DD Marriott for $25 a night, but not enough people are chasing the carrots.

Disney will bounce back. Although you can't fault people, we must get back to what we enjoy doing without the fear that has crept into our lives. The people control the economy more than they think. Let's hope the rebound isn't too far down the road.

[Joeblack]

Goofy fan is right about his views. This last time, I went to Universal's Islands of Adventure and, even though I arrived early, crowds were way larger than those at any of the parks at WDW. I had heard that July was crowded, but it was nothing compared to christmas week or even May (before 9/11). Actually, I would compare it to the crowds we experienced last January.

As for South American travel groups (especially Brazil), I ran into more of them than ever.....it seems the spirits were high in Brazil in July after their soccer world cup win. However, many people I know (me included) are thinking of flying twice. First, out of fear for what happened in 9/11 and mainly because airport security measures (as necessary as they are) have become too much of a hassle.

As much as I love Small World or Pirates of the Caribbean, I truly believe Disney should start investing a bit more in attractions like ToT, RnR, Spiderman, or Hulk that seem to draw most of the people these days.

[PKS44]

Originally posted by Joeblack
Goofy fan is right about his views. This last time, I went to Universal's Islands of Adventure and, even though I arrived early, crowds were way larger than those at any of the parks at WDW. I had heard that July was crowded, but it was nothing compared to christmas week or even May (before 9/11). Actually, I would compare it to the crowds we experienced last January.

As for South American travel groups (especially Brazil), I ran into more of them than ever.....it seems the spirits were high in Brazil in July after their soccer world cup win. However, many people I know (me included) are thinking of flying twice. First, out of fear for what happened in 9/11 and mainly because airport security measures (as necessary as they are) have become too much of a hassle.

As much as I love Small World or Pirates of the Caribbean, I truly believe Disney should start investing a bit more in attractions like ToT, RnR, Spiderman, or Hulk that seem to draw most of the people these days.

ToT -yes, Spiderman-certainly, RnR-okay, maybe; Hulk-NO! the whole theme is in the line, it ends when you get on the ride...it is NOT the Disney way...
and please keep coming, nothing to fear but fear itself...and the hassles...but that has got to beat driving in from Ecuador!

;)

[WebmasterDoc]

We drifted far from a DVC topic in this thread.

Please keep additional comments relative to DVC.

Thanks!

[manning]

So, how can we get more value for our DVC ownership?