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View Full Version : New policy for using or buying a few points??


dudleydog
03-24-2010, 04:03 PM
Got a heads up hat a new program or rule will be announced in a few days concerning points when you are a few short. Maybe you can do a one time buy of a small amount or borrow from use year 2 years away? My source couldnt tell me, but it sounds like I am on to something.

Anyone else hear?

DenLo
03-24-2010, 04:09 PM
What advantage would there be for Disney to do this small add on? Unless they charge extra per point and have closing costs, then this would be just a big expense.

And as to borrowing point two years out, unless it's regularly allowed it will more work MS. And I thought with all the recent changes that the DVC is trying to reduce MS workload.

bwvBound
03-24-2010, 04:15 PM
Hadn't heard of it. Perhaps it will be patterned after frequent flyer mile programs allowing you to "buy" the miles needed to close gaps when booking reward flights. If so, you'd be "renting" points directly from DVD at prices possibly higher than posted here but with the convenience and security of a "quick call to MS."

dudleydog
03-24-2010, 04:18 PM
Yes, not buying small addons, but a one time buy of say up to 10 points for those times when you are just off a a small number to finish a reservation.

Chuck S
03-24-2010, 05:01 PM
I think we'll see a bigger member discount for cash nights before we see an internal transfer of developer's points. Maybe the updated reservation software will let them book members at the highest available discount rate.

jjohnson
03-24-2010, 05:50 PM
I think we'll see a bigger member discount for cash nights before we see an internal transfer of developer's points. Maybe the updated reservation software will let them book members at the highest available discount rate.

That would be nice since I can book with a villa with CRO for 45% off rack.;)

Chuck S
03-24-2010, 06:15 PM
That would be nice since I can book with a villa with CRO for 45% off rack.;)

That is not at all uncommon to be able to book a room only AP discount rate of 40% to 45% off. Unfortunately, even with an AP, members can not book that rate through Member Services, and have to go through CRO. That would be a nice change to enable a "best rate" through MS.

Dean
03-24-2010, 09:36 PM
Many points systems allow a one time purchase of additional points.

Chuck S
03-24-2010, 10:17 PM
Many points systems allow a one time purchase of additional points.

True, but again, it just isn't something I see DVC doing. Not when it is more to Disney's advantage to rent a full night for cash, rather than a handful of points @ $10. I mean, if someone were 5 points short, that would be $50, much less than even a value room for the night. Even at $15 per point, it would only be $75.

iwrbnd
03-24-2010, 10:20 PM
True, but again, it just isn't something I see DVC doing.

It would be nice, though!

bookwormde
03-25-2010, 01:04 AM
Yes other timeshare structures do this at an inflated price per point. The only reson I could see DVC doing this is if with all the ROFR buybacks they have been doing they are finding that they are at risk of some of the points from those contracts expiring.

bookwormde

Dean
03-25-2010, 07:12 AM
True, but again, it just isn't something I see DVC doing. Not when it is more to Disney's advantage to rent a full night for cash, rather than a handful of points @ $10. I mean, if someone were 5 points short, that would be $50, much less than even a value room for the night. Even at $15 per point, it would only be $75.And I could easily see them doing so, actually I've stated that on the website several times over the years. I'm not sure that $10-12 a point is a realistic figure in the situation though, I'd figure more of a price based on a prorated but discounted room rate, maybe $20 a point. Certainly high but win-win for many situations. DVD and DVC has the points, it'd be just another way to rent them out. I'd suspect it'd be easier for them, simpler and cheaper than what they're doing now. Unlike most people, I don't think DVC is nearly as wrapped up in the "what's in it for them" attitude as most people seem to think. I think they'd seriously consider anything that was good for the membership, fairly easy to do and administer and made sense. I don't think it has to be a windfall to Disney for them to seriously consider. Now I do realize they're not going to shoot down the mother-ship to make something happen but I think this option is neutral to positive to the business side. To me the real question is how easILY Could it be done within they're system and IT OPTIONS. It makes a heck of a lot more sense than allowing transfers which many points systems don't allow.

dianeschlicht
03-25-2010, 07:37 AM
And I could easily see them doing so, actually I've stated that on the website several times over the years. I'm not sure that $10-12 a point is a realistic figure in the situation though, I'd figure more of a price based on a prorated but discounted room rate, maybe $20 a point. Certainly high but win-win for many situations. DVD and DVC has the points, it'd be just another way to rent them out. I'd suspect it'd be easier for them, simpler and cheaper than what they're doing now. Unlike most people, I don't think DVC is nearly as wrapped up in the "what's in it for them" attitude as most people seem to think. I think they'd seriously consider anything that was good for the membership, fairly easy to do and administer and made sense. I don't think it has to be a windfall to Disney for them to seriously consider. Now I do realize they're not going to shoot down the mother-ship to make something happen but I think this option is neutral to positive to the business side. To me the real question is how easILY Could it be done within they're system and IT OPTIONS. It makes a heck of a lot more sense than allowing transfers which many points systems don't allow.

I totally agree, Dean. Especially with the highlighted portion above. I do worry about their ability within the current IT system though. They seriously need to completely redo the technical side of things.

jjohnson
03-25-2010, 07:51 AM
That is not at all uncommon to be able to book a room only AP discount rate of 40% to 45% off. Unfortunately, even with an AP, members can not book that rate through Member Services, and have to go through CRO. That would be a nice change to enable a "best rate" through MS.

Agree and the 45% off is for the general public thru 8/14. I know its not the norm but I find it a bit annoying.

keishashadow
03-25-2010, 08:14 AM
Yes, not buying small addons, but a one time buy of say up to 10 points for those times when you are just off a a small number to finish a reservation.

with the recent reconfiguration of 'week day' points, many members no longer have enough points for their typical 'multiple per year' 5 day visits during peak seasons:rolleyes1

might just be a way to keep a segment of dissatisfied members from bolting & increase overall sales in the parks via more trips per member...def easier to sell a few points than resale a membership imo

just worry that this could effect resort availability if they go overboard as to the # of points permitted per calendar year, especially @ the 7 month mark when many of those with multiple contracts flip a res.popcorn::

Chuck S
03-25-2010, 08:26 AM
just worry that this could effect resort availability if they go overboard as to the # of points permitted per calendar year, especially @ the 7 month mark when many of those with multiple contracts flip a res.popcorn::

That is certainly a concern. If, on average, members rent 5 points to add an extra night to their reservation, that is what, 100,000 or so room nights? 100,000/365= about 274 extra rooms every day.

El&Asmom
03-25-2010, 09:41 AM
with the recent reconfiguration of 'week day' points, many members no longer have enough points for their typical 'multiple per year' 5 day visits during peak seasons:rolleyes1

might just be a way to keep a segment of dissatisfied members from bolting & increase overall sales in the parks via more trips per member...def easier to sell a few points than resale a membership imo

just worry that this could effect resort availability if they go overboard as to the # of points permitted per calendar year, especially @ the 7 month mark when many of those with multiple contracts flip a res.popcorn::

I'd be in if they allowed a 5pt buy when needed. We are one of the few that lost out on our every 3 year trip to HH with our 50 pts. We could have had 5n in a 1bd every 3 summers at HH, but with the point reallocation, we are 5pts short. I'm sure they would rather sell those 5 points to us than us sell our points, get ROFLed, and them having to go through the hassle of selling the points again.

Chuck S
03-25-2010, 09:50 AM
I don't know why so many people seem to think Disney actually cares if an individual sells their contract or not. DVC does not have to exercise ROFR...and the seller is obligated to pay the dues until the contract sells, then the new owner is obligated.

If they do exercise ROFR, they likely would sell it for more than the price they ROFR'd...so it is additional profit, and likely more than the $100 or so they'd make from renting out the points one time to an existing owner. DVC really doesn't care whether it is you, or the person you sell to, that continues paying the dues...as long as they are paid.

El&Asmom
03-25-2010, 09:57 AM
I don't know why so many people seem to think Disney actually cares if an individual sells their contract or not. DVC does not have to exercise ROFR...and the seller is obligated to pay the dues until the contract sells, then the new owner is obligated.

If they do exercise ROFR, they likely would sell it for more than the price they ROFR'd...so it is additional profit, and likely more than the $100 or so they'd make from renting out the points one time to an existing owner. DVC really doesn't care whether it is you, or the person you sell to, that continues paying the dues...as long as they are paid.

I realize they don't care who pays the dues on a contract. I do think they would prefer to have as few ROFR points as possible. More points that are not having dues paid for for an unknown amount of time. Plus there is the man power that needs to be used to sell those extra points. For BCV or the easier properties to sell, I'm sure it's a moot point, but for HH or VB, I'm sure they would rather not have to deal with it for the few extra bucks difference they earn between the ROFR price and the sale price. But I'm not a business woman so what do I know.

Maistre Gracey
03-25-2010, 10:31 AM
I don't know why so many people seem to think Disney actually cares if an individual sells their contract or not.
I would think they would be happy with less competition on the resale market.
If there were no resales, they would be selling more points.

MG

Chuck S
03-25-2010, 10:39 AM
I would think they would be happy with less competition on the resale market.
If there were no resales, they would be selling more points.

MG

But that really has no bearing on whether they care if one individual sells over another. For any timeshare there will be those that "expect" more than it is and sell their ownership. If someone consistently needs 5 ponts, Disney would make more profit simply selling them a 25 point add-on at $100 per point than "renting" them 5 points annually at $100...at least in the short term. It would take them 25 years to make that $2500 gross, and cost them more long term.

And you are assuming a substantial number of people would sell their entire membership because they are 5 points short, rather than getting a transfer from another member, or renting a cash room for one night, or even renting a one noght reservation from another member.

Dean
03-25-2010, 12:09 PM
I don't know why so many people seem to think Disney actually cares if an individual sells their contract or not. DVC does not have to exercise ROFR...and the seller is obligated to pay the dues until the contract sells, then the new owner is obligated.

If they do exercise ROFR, they likely would sell it for more than the price they ROFR'd...so it is additional profit, and likely more than the $100 or so they'd make from renting out the points one time to an existing owner. DVC really doesn't care whether it is you, or the person you sell to, that continues paying the dues...as long as they are paid.If anything, I suspect they'd prefer it. From what I can gather a long time DVC members generally spends less on a given trip than a new member. The ONLY reason I'd expect they'd care is if members were leaving in large enough droves to truly affect retail sales. They could eliminate banking, borrowing, transfers, all perks and require a 5 day minimum and I doubt enough people would sell to reach this level. The park system would likely do it but then they wouldn't care for different reasons.

TisBit
03-25-2010, 12:38 PM
True, but again, it just isn't something I see DVC doing. Not when it is more to Disney's advantage to rent a full night for cash, rather than a handful of points @ $10. I mean, if someone were 5 points short, that would be $50, much less than even a value room for the night. Even at $15 per point, it would only be $75.

I think the point would be that a member that is 3 points and have borrowed everything from their next use year will probably not pay cash for the last night, but rather just not book the last day or maybe move to an off site, etc. I think there would be a huge benefit to a small point transaction, it will have to cost enough that you don't want to pay for too many, but not overprice the room. I it would definitely quell the irritation of people that are now 2-5 points shy of what they want for their vacation due to the reallocations.

BEASLYBOO
03-25-2010, 12:43 PM
I wonder how many people who actually threathen to sell DVC because they are fed up or displeased actually do, and I'm sure DVC doesn't care one way or the other. I do think it would be in DVC's favor to make it available to purchase those few points one might need to complete a reservation. I've read many post where people were sold on the idea of buying as many points as they needed and due to the 2 point reallocations, they are now short and very unhappy about it. Personally I constantly borrow from the next year and I don't have issues doing it but I can see where others may. Offering people more options could be a good thing!

wendypooh
03-25-2010, 01:19 PM
I like the idea - but with reservations or rather restrictions applied to it. It would have to be a limited amount of pts. we are talking about - say up to 7 per member per use year and at a price that isn't over inflated - but not ridiculously low either.

I agree with the OP who said that members likely would just NOT book that extra night - I agree with that and I assume others agree as well - I think Disney would WANT people in those rooms that extra night - I mean if you are THERE - then you are spending $$$$ there.

SuzanneSLO
03-25-2010, 03:38 PM
I like the idea - but with reservations or rather restrictions applied to it. It would have to be a limited amount of pts. we are talking about - say up to 7 per member per use year and at a price that isn't over inflated - but not ridiculously low either.

I agree with the OP who said that members likely would just NOT book that extra night - I agree with that and I assume others agree as well - I think Disney would WANT people in those rooms that extra night - I mean if you are THERE - then you are spending $$$$ there.

I am sure that DVC really cares whether you book an extra night or not. Let's imagine you need 30 points for that extra night and you only have 25. If you use those points for your extra night next year, someone else is almost certainly using points for that room this year, so it is a wash from DVC's perspective. If you let those 25 points expire, then DVC benefits from having more inventory to sell to the cash paying public.

Still, it would not surprise me if DVC does offer to rent points directly to members because Disney is generally very good at offering many different ways to liberate your money from your wallet. I would expect that the price per point will be higher than most of us on these Boards will think is reasonable and that the price point alone will be enough to keep most members from using this option except on rare occassions. -- Suzanne

hellerjw
03-25-2010, 03:58 PM
I would expect that the price per point will be higher than most of us on these Boards will think is reasonable and that the price point alone will be enough to keep most members from using this option except on rare occassions. -- Suzanne

It wouldn't surprise me if they intentionally set the price point pretty high to encourage the frequent takers to do an add-on as a way to "save" money. I could see the marketing folks jumping all over this, both from selling the increased flexibility of the system to tracking those who are frequently buying these extra "cash points" in order to push add-ons.

Maistre Gracey
03-25-2010, 11:28 PM
The ONLY reason I'd expect they'd care is if members were leaving in large enough droves to truly affect retail sales. They could eliminate banking, borrowing, transfers, all perks and require a 5 day minimum and I doubt enough people would sell to reach this level. The park system would likely do it but then they wouldn't care for different reasons.
Dean, would you be so kind as to pass that pipe in my direction?

(For clarification, that was said with a nice tone.)

MG

keishashadow
03-26-2010, 07:06 AM
I don't know why so many people seem to think Disney actually cares if an individual sells their contract or not. DVC does not have to exercise ROFR...and the seller is obligated to pay the dues until the contract sells, then the new owner is obligated.

If they do exercise ROFR, they likely would sell it for more than the price they ROFR'd...so it is additional profit, and likely more than the $100 or so they'd make from renting out the points one time to an existing owner. DVC really doesn't care whether it is you, or the person you sell to, that continues paying the dues...as long as they are paid.

problem with traditional real estate market is many owners aren't living up to their obligations

so many are walking away from mortgages where they are under water. it's not a stretch to see a buyer doing the same w/TS. It can take a year+ for a lender to evict a homeowner depending on the state, then even longer to resell with a huge overhead of unpaid taxes, insurance, legal fees, etc. Im not judging, yet many decide to stay & live rent-free for as long as possible until actual foreclosure.

I've wondered how many do finance DVC (perhaps w/a CC as down payment), use 2 or 3 years worth of points then walk, certainly haven't crunched the numbers as to actual loss in such a dirty scheme. Probably issues of buyer's remorse where folks just walk away if they can't re-sell too.

i have no idea how the general mortgage crisis applies to TS in general or what % of contracts DVC is taking back, but it is time consuming & costs are incurred to turn over a contract.:confused3Renting points in 'limbo' (before it is repackaged & sold-who knows what inventory they are currently holding) to members may very well churn some revenue, if it's legal.;)

BostonDisneyKid
03-26-2010, 07:08 AM
Maybe the "change" will be in relation to other recent changes. Maybe not but hear me out...

I assume Disney saw the Dadio's of the world (commercial point renting services) making money off the rental of points. They have changed a few rules of recent to limit and/or prohibit this in large numbers (transfer rule change couple years back, redefineing commercial renting a few years back, limiting associate members, point reallocations of past couple of years). So maybe they will start a similar program to eliminate the competition all together in this area by offering a member point exchange program of sorts. If they allowed members to sell points back or even "loan" points (deposit 15 pts this year, receive 15pts the following year) in to a pooled system were other members could use those points by charging a rental for a fee $x per point + transaction fees. This would provide more flexability to the members with point overages, provide a service to those members in need of points while providing yet another revenue stream which they currently dont have access to by managing those points of its members internally.

Just a thought...

nunzia
03-26-2010, 08:26 AM
Hmm..not a bad idea..and hey, where did those Dadio ads go??

Chuck S
03-26-2010, 08:29 AM
.....and hey, where did those Dadio ads go??

The Rent/Trade board.

oct2014
03-26-2010, 03:59 PM
Maybe the "change" will be in relation to other recent changes. Maybe not but hear me out...

I assume Disney saw the Dadio's of the world (commercial point renting services) making money off the rental of points. They have changed a few rules of recent to limit and/or prohibit this in large numbers (transfer rule change couple years back, redefineing commercial renting a few years back, limiting associate members, point reallocations of past couple of years). So maybe they will start a similar program to eliminate the competition all together in this area by offering a member point exchange program of sorts. If they allowed members to sell points back or even "loan" points (deposit 15 pts this year, receive 15pts the following year) in to a pooled system were other members could use those points by charging a rental for a fee $x per point + transaction fees. This would provide more flexability to the members with point overages, provide a service to those members in need of points while providing yet another revenue stream which they currently dont have access to by managing those points of its members internally.

Just a thought...

I agree that, if anything, it is more a reaction to the rental rather than the resale business. I have never rented points, but from what I have seen on the boards it seems like renting directly from DVC (even at a premium) might be attractive to DVC members, particularly if they only need a few points or want to be able to modify their reservation without going through another DVC member or service. I would imagine that the rented points would belong to you like transfer points.

Caroline

Chuck S
03-26-2010, 05:17 PM
I think a few legal questions would need to be addressed before they allow "renting" a few points directly from Disney. First, define renting vs. transferring. Renting a reervation has always been at least one full night. If that holds true, then they would actually be "transferring" points, which ccording to their own published rules, is not allowed for money. It would also give them the ability for "multiple transfers" per use year, meaning a violatin of another rule that could be a legal glitch, especially as some states hold the developers use of points to the same standards as those of owners. It couldn't come from undeclared inventory, as those units don't actually have "points" until they are declared part of the condominium, so again, they'd be limited to full nights.

Dean
03-26-2010, 08:43 PM
I think a few legal questions would need to be addressed before they allow "renting" a few points directly from Disney. First, define renting vs. transferring. Renting a reervation has always been at least one full night. If that holds true, then they would actually be "transferring" points, which ccording to their own published rules, is not allowed for money. It would also give them the ability for "multiple transfers" per use year, meaning a violatin of another rule that could be a legal glitch, especially as some states hold the developers use of points to the same standards as those of owners. It couldn't come from undeclared inventory, as those units don't actually have "points" until they are declared part of the condominium, so again, they'd be limited to full nights.I don't think they'd have any issues for limited "rental" in such a situation. I don't think any of these issues would be significant hurdles for such a program. As for how to do it, there are many scenarios that would be workable. They could pull from the pool of points given up for exchanges, breakage inventory, points owned by DVD or even undeclared inventory. Breakage can be anticipated so you're not restricted to 2 months out. Undeclared inventory can be crossed over any way they want as there's no rule that would keep them from using such inventory for the good of the members. Obviously there would have to be some method to monitor the resort totals to be sure the room occupancy (number of rooms for the year) wasn't exceeded but that's an easy and small task overall.

As I mentioned earlier, many systems do this. Some do so in whole night increments some don't. In a sense DVC already does this by renting extra nights. RCI does this where you can rent up to 50% of your yearly allotment to complete a reservation which means in some cases you can rent all the points for a given reservation.

Chuck S
03-26-2010, 09:26 PM
As I mentioned earlier, many systems do this. Some do so in whole night increments some don't. In a sense DVC already does this by renting extra nights. RCI does this where you can rent up to 50% of your yearly allotment to complete a reservation which means in some cases you can rent all the points for a given reservation.

Where would this extra 50% of points come from if a resort is fully sold and Disney holds only about 4%? Wouldn't that, in effect, be overselling the resort?

As you said, Disney does this with whole nights, but those would be rooms that DVC estimates to be not rented on points (breakage). They can't just remove rooms from member inventory to rent or member cash willy nilly, any more than they could suddenly add a lot of points to sold out resorts. They have to come from somewhere.

Dean
03-26-2010, 09:46 PM
Where would this extra 50% of points come from if a resort is fully sold and Disney holds only about 4%? Wouldn't that, in effect, be overselling the resort?

As you said, Disney does this with whole nights, but those would be rooms that DVC estimates to be not rented on points (breakage). They can't just remove rooms from member inventory to rent or member cash willy nilly, any more than they could suddenly add a lot of points to sold out resorts. They have to come from somewhere.I'm not suggesting DVC allow rental of such large numbers of points, merely pointing out that RCI does it. They use a pool of points similar to what DVC would have to use. Any rentals are subject to availability of the points so there is not an issue of overselling, if there are no points in the pool, you can't rent points. Ignoring undeclared inventory but taking into account breakage inventory, unsold but declared and exchanged points that are planned to be converted to cash, I'd estimate that around 8-10% of the total points could be available for such a program. It could be a win-win since so many of the points are wasted now trying to turn them into cash. DVC only gets around 40 cents on the dollar currently for such points. The current cash room rentals comes from more than just breakage and such a program would pull from the same pool as cash rentals through MS and COULD pull from the other pool that is currently available through CRO only though that would take a little more tweaking. Done in a limited fashion there is great potential benefit to the membership as a whole and almost no downside other than the administrative issues of setting up, running and paying for such a program; all of which I thing would be minimal but given the devil is in the details issue, you never really know. Ultimately I suspect it simply would take DVC/DVD deciding they wanted to offer this option to make it happen. I would expect it would be a small to moderate size project for middle and upper management, the question is simply whether they want to put the effort into it. Given we don't have the program currently I'm guessing they do not.

dudleydog
03-31-2010, 04:23 PM
Something will be announced by DVC very soon.

boardwalk prof
03-31-2010, 10:29 PM
The figures I've gathered indicate there are about 1,572,000 points held by DVC/DVD in the resorts on property; (4% of the total points).

Assuming the maximum 'rental' by DVC of 5 points, it would take about 314,000 of these 5 point rental transactions to use up the 4% of points held back in each resort. Even with a 10 point rental transaction average, the members could never use up the avialable inventory.

I haven't seen a recent total members figure for a while, but there are certainly enough points available, even without considering exchanges, defaulted contracts, etc. to make this work from the points side of things.

With that said, I'm not sure I am in favor of this. It would seem that this could result in less availability.


Boardwalk Prof

Chuck S
03-31-2010, 10:57 PM
The figures I've gathered indicate there are about 1,572,000 points held by DVC/DVD in the resorts on property; (4% of the total points).

Assuming the maximum 'rental' by DVC of 5 points, it would take about 314,000 of these 5 point rental transactions to use up the 4% of points held back in each resort. Even with a 10 point rental transaction average, the members could never use up the avialable inventory.

I haven't seen a recent total members figure for a while, but there are certainly enough points available, even without considering exchanges, defaulted contracts, etc. to make this work from the points side of things.

With that said, I'm not sure I am in favor of this. It would seem that this could result in less availability.


Boardwalk Prof

It seems with about 150,000 to 200,000 members, they could burn through those points pretty quickly.

BWV Dreamin
04-01-2010, 02:29 AM
Nice post! A couple of extra thoughts.... As far as violating existing rules as Chuck points out. The rules in place, ie transfers, are between members only, not with DVC. So actually those terms as they are now would not need to be modified. My other thought concerns the question of " burning" through those existing 4 percent of points Disney is holding. Are there really that many people that want to rent 2,10,15 points? The reallocation has really hurt alot of members, and people just don't have the dollars to buy more points. This scenario could really be a win-win situation. I also don't think it will impact current members ability to rent out their points as I have a feeling DVC would put a pretty high price on moving such small amounts of points per transaction. Very interesting.

Maybe the "change" will be in relation to other recent changes. Maybe not but hear me out...

I assume Disney saw the Dadio's of the world (commercial point renting services) making money off the rental of points. They have changed a few rules of recent to limit and/or prohibit this in large numbers (transfer rule change couple years back, redefineing commercial renting a few years back, limiting associate members, point reallocations of past couple of years). So maybe they will start a similar program to eliminate the competition all together in this area by offering a member point exchange program of sorts. If they allowed members to sell points back or even "loan" points (deposit 15 pts this year, receive 15pts the following year) in to a pooled system were other members could use those points by charging a rental for a fee $x per point + transaction fees. This would provide more flexability to the members with point overages, provide a service to those members in need of points while providing yet another revenue stream which they currently dont have access to by managing those points of its members internally.

Just a thought...

dianeschlicht
04-01-2010, 06:21 AM
But...If DVC were to establish a "trade back" policy like other timeshares have, they would have that extra inventory needed to let people "rent" the extra points they need.

Other timeshares have all kinds of policies about "lending" your points when you aren't using them. Basically, many are programs where the timeshare itself matches up the renter with the rentee.

Brian Noble
04-01-2010, 07:48 AM
I'd figure more of a price based on a prorated but discounted room rate, maybe $20 a point
$20 is probably more than rack in many situations.

For example, we have a 2BR reserved at VWL this summer, in late July. It is 352 points as a DVC reservation. Rack rate on the room is about $5,200, including tax, or a total of $14.75/point, give or take. Partly, this is due to an inversion in the CRO Calendar (which is in Value Season then) and the DVC calendar (Magic), but I bet it's not the only instance.

The figures I've gathered indicate there are about 1,572,000 points held by DVC/DVD in the resorts on property; (4% of the total points).
These points are held in part for maintenance; I suspect they aren't easily used.

If DVC were to establish a "trade back" policy like other timeshares have, they would have that extra inventory needed to let people "rent" the extra points they need.

I don't think they'd need to. As Dean points out, these aren't the only points potentially in play. For example, any points exchanged for Disney-owned but non-DVC lodging, DCL cruises, or ABD trips must somehow be monetized by DVCMC to pay the other business units for Member usage. Right now, it is a pretty hard slog for CRO to rent those rooms to the general public, as folks are scaling back and staying in less expensive categories right now. But, renting points to the Membership might be a more efficient way to monetize some fraction of those points.

On the other side of the ledger, DVD will view it as a mechanism that may potentially cannibalize add-ons. But, if we're truly talking small #s of points (i.e. to complete a portion of the last night's stay) then it could be seen as sufficiently non-threatening.

hopare
04-01-2010, 08:29 AM
Something will be announced by DVC very soon.

How do you know? Did a bus driver tell you?:rotfl2: h
I am just joking:) honestly, I would like this to happen!

Chuck S
04-01-2010, 09:07 AM
Nice post! A couple of extra thoughts.... As far as violating existing rules as Chuck points out. The rules in place, ie transfers, are between members only, not with DVC. So actually those terms as they are now would not need to be modified. My other thought concerns the question of " burning" through those existing 4 percent of points Disney is holding. Are there really that many people that want to rent 2,10,15 points? The reallocation has really hurt alot of members, and people just don't have the dollars to buy more points. This scenario could really be a win-win situation. I also don't think it will impact current members ability to rent out their points as I have a feeling DVC would put a pretty high price on moving such small amounts of points per transaction. Very interesting.

But limiting member to member transfers while not limiting DVC to member transfers could violate state laws. In many state, usage rules have to apply to both the developer and the individual timeshare owners.

BWV Dreamin
04-01-2010, 09:35 AM
But limiting member to member transfers while not limiting DVC to member transfers could violate state laws. In many state, usage rules have to apply to both the developer and the individual timeshare owners.

So are the state lawsto be considered only Florida as this is where DVD is located, or states where the timeshares reside, ie FL, SC, CA, and HI? Do we know in fact that these laws would be violated at the present?

Chuck S
04-01-2010, 09:41 AM
Laws would fall under each state where a resort is located. For instance, if there was a law prohibiting isuch a practice in SC, then unlimited internal transfers would not be available for stays at HHI, or perhaps to owners at HHI staying at other resorts. It is a quagmire that Disney likely would not want to venture into if different policies were required for different resort locations.

tjkraz
04-01-2010, 11:00 AM
The figures I've gathered indicate there are about 1,572,000 points held by DVC/DVD in the resorts on property; (4% of the total points).


I'm not sure exactly where this number comes from but if true, it's a combination of points held for different purposes.

DVD retains about 2% at each resort for maintenance purposes. The exact numbers are disclosed in each year's annual budget.

Those points give them the ability to take each unit out of service for one week per year. In some cases those could be radical refurbishments like BWV and OKW. In other situations it's simply a couple days in the spring and fall for painting plus other random days for appliance replacement, new carpet, tile work, etc. I don't know whether or not DVD could legally rent these points, but it seems that the capacity should largely be needed to perform scheduled maintenance tasks.

Other points held would originate with ROFR activities and unsold units from newer properties. Those points would be DVD's to do with as they please.

It seems with about 150,000 to 200,000 members, they could burn through those points pretty quickly.

But doesn't that speak to the viability of such a rental system?

Use whatever volume you want. If DVD makes a half million points available for one-time rental by members, at $20 each that's $10 million in revenue PER YEAR.

If all it takes is a computer programming investment to get such a system up and running, why not do it? The only real argument against would be that it somewhat discourages add-on sales. But if DVD wants to rent at $20 per point, it wouldn't take many transactions to add up to the equivalent of an add-on. 10 members renting 10 points each at $20 is $2000 in revenue. Is any one of those 10 members really a viable candidate to otherwise buy a 25-pt add-on? Plus DVD gets to re-rent the same points again next year.

I'll say this--renting the points at $20 (or more) each is a lot more profitable than giving away single or double Developer's Points as a sales incentive. Assuming there is demand for $20 point rentals, in years past DVD has given away $6400 worth of points (320 points x $20) as a throw-in on a 160-pt purchase.

Brian Noble
04-01-2010, 11:02 AM
Wyndham does not allow owners to transfer points between them at all, but *does* rent points to owners to complete the last night's stay or, within 90 days prior to check-in, as many as you want up to your annual allocation.

Wyndham has several resorts in Florida, and I believe the points trust may be incorporated there as well. It's possible that Wyndham is in violation of FL law, but this suggests that it could be legal.

DVCGeek
04-01-2010, 11:46 AM
offering a member point exchange program of sorts.

I like the idea you described, and the logic makes sense how it could help fight competition. Now I just need to keep reading to see what others have said as posts crossed! :rotfl:

Dean
04-01-2010, 06:02 PM
But limiting member to member transfers while not limiting DVC to member transfers could violate state laws. In many state, usage rules have to apply to both the developer and the individual timeshare owners.It depends. First, one might classify this at something other than an exchange but more likely, they'd just modify the legal requirements exempting this process, something they could easily do without a vote of members since there really isn't any downside. From reading through the info, I know of nothing in the FL law that would be an issue other than as any practice violated the POS and related paperwork.

As for the % of points owned at sold out resorts, DVC has never released the numbers other than to generalize it to be in the 2-4% range. 4% is certainly beyond the amount needed for maint and given the setup of the system they can likely run maint just on lost points in off season other than emergency issues. If it's 4% owned, that certainly gives a fair chunk of points to fund such a possibility. 2% is likely the max needed for maint but even that is likely more than enough.

Bluegreen also does not allow transfers nor do they rent extra points. They allow shorter notice whole night rentals and in some cases, free upgrades and extensions to certain VIP level members members. I also own a single resort in MX that works on points and they rent points or extra nights but also do not allow transfers. From what I know most systems do not allow transfers and many don not rent points but RCI does both and though RCI previously charged a fee for transfers, they no longer do.

As I noted, it could be a win-win but there are many components of minor positives and minor negatives. Certainly there would be some competition with add ons and a significant start up investment but it would be an effective way to rent out points that are now going unrented and in a way this could be very positive to certain members and could be used to enhance sales. I have no way of knowing if they will do this or not and I don't really care personally other than I see it as good for the membership as a whole and neutral to positive to DVC. But like anything else, the devil's in the details and as I noted previously, in a sense one can already do this by renting an individual night in many cases.

corpcomp
04-02-2010, 06:09 PM
Imaginer trying to sell at 5 point contract on TTS. $400 for the points, $400 for the closing costs.

dudleydog
04-14-2010, 08:54 PM
Cool...announced today: $15 a point, can buy up to 24 ONCE a year for a one time reservation. No banking or borrowing them.

andersonsc
04-14-2010, 09:20 PM
DVCnews.com has an articale stating members can buy up to 24 points per year from DVC for $15. One time per year for use at 7 mo. booking window.

kathyell
04-14-2010, 09:21 PM
http://dvcnews.com/index.php/news-program-information-164/1236-dvc-introduces-one-time-use-point-solution

Boils down to: once per use year, you can purchase up to 24 points for use in that use year for $15/point. Other info in the link.

Interesting.

Nikisha421
04-14-2010, 09:24 PM
This maybe the answer to my upcoming summer vacation problem. I like the idea...but wouldn't it be cheaper to rent points from someone at $10...although this is easier to me no need to wonder if the reservation is still active since it will be your personal ressie!

Nikisha421
04-14-2010, 09:26 PM
I guess maybe the inflated price takes into account the Maintainence fees and taxws, etc...

JennaWest
04-14-2010, 09:30 PM
bump

Disneycouple99
04-14-2010, 09:31 PM
Not a bad price.

bwvBound
04-14-2010, 09:51 PM
Cool...announced today: $15 a point, can buy up to 24 ONCE a year for a one time reservation. No banking or borrowing them.Thanks for posting the update! Full info via the DVC Member Site at: https://dvc.disney.go.com/dvc/member/memberDetail?id=OneTimeUseVacationPointsDetailPage (log in may be required)

DebbieB
04-14-2010, 10:08 PM
It seems like adding a cash night would be a better alternative in some cases. In the past, I have added a cash weekend night in a 1 bedroom at OKW. Instead of 48 points, I paid around $320, which was under $7 a point.

Might be a good idea if you only needed a couple points to finish a reservation.

Ironic that this comes out after they did point reallocations making members a few points short.

Tara
04-14-2010, 10:18 PM
Wow, not bad!

magicaldisney
04-14-2010, 10:35 PM
I don't think it should be considered "purchasing points". It's just like paying someone to transfer some of their points into your account, you're just having DVC transfer some of "their" points into your account. I agree it might not be the best financial decision if you can find someone here to transfer points for you for less money or if a cash reservation would cost less. However it might be less hassle?????

magicaldisney
04-14-2010, 10:36 PM
The other thing I hope someone here can make sense of.....why is it only allowed at the 7 month window and not at the 11 month window?

bwvBound
04-14-2010, 10:41 PM
The other thing I hope someone here can make sense of.....why is it only allowed at the 7 month window and not at the 11 month window?Likely to make things easier all around. Limiting the use to the 7-month window eliminates tracking the "home resort" for each rental point. It also avoids ever having to say, "Sorry DVC Member, we have run out of <your resort> points for now. We have points for other resorts -- but these won't help your reservation until the 7-month window. Please try again later."

kathyell
04-14-2010, 11:42 PM
This maybe the answer to my upcoming summer vacation problem. I like the idea...but wouldn't it be cheaper to rent points from someone at $10...although this is easier to me no need to wonder if the reservation is still active since it will be your personal ressie!

My husband asked the same thing, but my gut instinct is that most people wanting to rent points will be hoping for someone to take more than a handful of points off of their hands. So if you couldn't find someone willing to transfer or rent a small number of points to you to "top off" a reservation you want to make, this is a possible alternative for you.

I was kind of hoping you could rent points that would then sort of match up with one of your home resorts so you could use the bought points along with your own points for an 11 months out reservation, but it seems pretty clear that they are for use at the 7 months or less timeframe.

DVCconvert
04-15-2010, 06:22 AM
This is now official.
Go to DVC member site, click on news and what's new - scroll down to :

"New alternative to borrowing points"

lisareniff
04-15-2010, 06:43 AM
Thanks DVCconvert! You are really paying attention!

One-Time-Use Vacation Points

See the details on how you can purchase a minimal number of additional vacation points to use towards your stay of choice.
As a Disney Vacation Club Member, occasionally you may find yourself in need of just few extra vacation points in order to book that perfect dream vacation. Previously, this required borrowing vacation points from a future use year, but very recently a new alternative was introduced. They're called "one-time-use" vacation points and are available for a fee of $15 ($13.33 plus $1.67 tax) per vacation point. Availability of one-time-use vacation points may be limited or suspended from time to time, and the fee is subject to change.

Details:
•One-time-use vacation points are vacation points available for Disney Vacation Club Members to use as an alternative to borrowing vacation points from the following use year's allotment.
•You can obtain a maximum of 24 one-time-use vacation points once per use year per membership.
•A maximum of 24 one-time-use vacation points are processed in a single transaction, not multiple transactions.
•The fee for one-time-use vacation points is $15 (including tax) per vacation point, and is subject to change.
•One-time-use vacation points expire according to the use year of the reservation booked and are non-refundable, non-transferable and cannot be banked or borrowed.
•One-time-use vacation points are not available for waitlist reservations.
•One-time-use vacation points cannot be applied retroactively to existing reservations.
•One-time-use vacation points are only available for Members whose contract is closed and in good standing.
•One-time-use vacation points are available only for Disney Vacation Club, Disney Collection, Adventurer Collection and World Passport Collection reservations.
•One-time-use vacation points used for Disney Vacation Club resort reservations can only be used up to 7 months prior to arrival.
•One-time-use vacation points for Disney Collection, Adventurer Collection and World Passport reservations can be used according to the booking guidelines for each individual collection.

LIFERBABE
04-15-2010, 07:29 AM
Yes I read this elsewhere!!

It will be helpful with the transfer rules which are likely not changing.

May be some more enhancements coming

Melani
04-15-2010, 07:39 AM
Wow this is so GREAT! :yay:
No more worry when renting.
The only bummer is the 7 month thing, We book at 11 months.

One-Time-Use Vacation Points

See the details on how you can purchase a minimal number of additional vacation points to use towards your stay of choice.
As a Disney Vacation Club Member, occasionally you may find yourself in need of just few extra vacation points in order to book that perfect dream vacation. Previously, this required borrowing vacation points from a future use year, but very recently a new alternative was introduced. They're called "one-time-use" vacation points and are available for a fee of $15 ($13.33 plus $1.67 tax) per vacation point. Availability of one-time-use vacation points may be limited or suspended from time to time, and the fee is subject to change.

Details:
•One-time-use vacation points are vacation points available for Disney Vacation Club Members to use as an alternative to borrowing vacation points from the following use year's allotment.
•You can obtain a maximum of 24 one-time-use vacation points once per use year per membership.
•A maximum of 24 one-time-use vacation points are processed in a single transaction, not multiple transactions.
•The fee for one-time-use vacation points is $15 (including tax) per vacation point, and is subject to change.
•One-time-use vacation points expire according to the use year of the reservation booked and are non-refundable, non-transferable and cannot be banked or borrowed.
•One-time-use vacation points are not available for waitlist reservations.
•One-time-use vacation points cannot be applied retroactively to existing reservations.
•One-time-use vacation points are only available for Members whose contract is closed and in good standing.
•One-time-use vacation points are available only for Disney Vacation Club, Disney Collection, Adventurer Collection and World Passport Collection reservations.
•One-time-use vacation points used for Disney Vacation Club resort reservations can only be used up to 7 months prior to arrival.
•One-time-use vacation points for Disney Collection, Adventurer Collection and World Passport reservations can be used according to the booking guidelines for each individual collection.

wdrl
04-15-2010, 10:29 AM
The other thing I hope someone here can make sense of.....why is it only allowed at the 7 month window and not at the 11 month window?

Perhaps Disney imposes this restriction to help preserve the home resort priority window. For example, AKV Concierge villas are very hard to get even during the home-resort priority window. Since one night in a Concierge studio costs 24 points or less for each season except Premier season, members using this new program could, at least in theory, buy enough points to book all the Concierge studios before AKV owners get them. With this restriction, home resort owners won't have to compete against non-owners for some of the hard-to-get reservations.

I suppose Disney could modify this rule in the future and say that points bought through this program can be used at the 11-month window ONLY if the buyer already owns at that resort.

littlestar
04-15-2010, 11:34 AM
I like this. :) I just wish it was like my Wyndham points where we could rent a few more than 24 if needed. Sure beats having to look for a small transfer when you're a few points short.

LIFERBABE
04-15-2010, 11:52 AM
Perhaps Disney imposes this restriction to help preserve the home resort priority window. For example, AKV Concierge villas are very hard to get even during the home-resort priority window. Since one night in a Concierge studio costs 24 points or less for each season except Premier season, members using this new program could, at least in theory, buy enough points to book all the Concierge studios before AKV owners get them. With this restriction, home resort owners won't have to compete against non-owners for some of the hard-to-get reservations.

I suppose Disney could modify this rule in the future and say that points bought through this program can be used at the 11-month window ONLY if the buyer already owns at that resort.


I agree. Do we really want more competition at the 11 month window? I would think even if you own a resort, you would not want all these extra points flooding your 11 month booking window.
I remember when SSR first opened they gave away Developer Points that could be used at any resort and availability was tight everywhere. Subsequent offers limited the DP's to SSR bookings only as a result.

Arming members with banking, borrowing and 24 extra points could really gridlock the smaller resorts at 11 months. As a owner that values the 11 month window, I applaud the decision to limit these points to 7 month bookings.

deanna2426
04-15-2010, 11:55 AM
Do you buy these points when you need them or do you buy in advance for those times you may need them in the future?

For example, if I need 24 pts for booking my next DVC trip, do I just let the CM know that I would like to buy them at that time or is it a separate contract that we purchase now for when we need them?

Thanks for your help!

ajjollie23
04-15-2010, 12:02 PM
Yes, I just got this info in my email. this is great, I just wish they came out with it a little earlier. I was 7 points shy of a 1 br this year and didn't want to borrow so just sucked it up and got a studio. I totally would have bought those 7 points at that price!!!

LisaS
04-15-2010, 12:13 PM
I'm sorry to see this limited to the 7-month window. With the point chart changes, I'm a few points short on a couple of my usual stays. But I would need those points at the 11-month window. If I have to wait until the 7-month window, I can just use points I own at other resorts, provided there is still availability to book the last night I need.

princessfionasmom
04-15-2010, 12:13 PM
I just read that too. At first I thought it was a high price to pay but when you consider the ease of it, I actually like the idea of having the option. It certainly is nice for when you are short a few points or want to add a day without borrowing from the next year because you have already planned out how you will use the next year's points :rotfl2:

LIFERBABE
04-15-2010, 12:17 PM
Yes, I just got this info in my email. this is great, I just wish they came out with it a little earlier. I was 7 points shy of a 1 br this year and didn't want to borrow so just sucked it up and got a studio. I totally would have bought those 7 points at that price!!!

Great point! Studios book the fastest and 1 bedrooms the slowest. Maybe this will encourage owners to upgrade to the larger villas without stripping their points. If you could upgrade to a 1 bedroom for $360 (24x$15) or less would you? Many owners will be in that position.

I think the price is fair and it includes tax, which many at the $10 level do not.

lumpydj
04-15-2010, 12:18 PM
I'm wondering exactly how this will work with all the restrictions on this. Here's my theoretical situation.

I'm booking at my home resort at 11 months out. I'm about 10 points shy from booking a full week (last day is 35 points and I only have 25 after all other days are booked). Based on this rule "One-time-use vacation points cannot be applied retroactively to existing reservations", will I be able to add on one last day at 7 months where I use my remaining 25 points and pay for 10? Also, I don't see why they couldn't let us pay for the "extra" points needed to complete a day at the 11 month mark. They could limit this by not letting someone buy points to pay for a whole day - only in the case where you need a few to complete a day's worth of points. :confused3

Don't get me wrong - I think this is a great program. However, I'm wondering how "user-friendly" it is based on resort availability at 7 months. :flower3:

deej696
04-15-2010, 12:44 PM
I am a big fan of this, as I am usually 10-20 points short each year. I dont believe I've ever started a UY without having borrowed points out already. I've considered doing an add on, but I'm not sure why I'd want to pay for points and dues, if I can simply rent a few when I need them. We are local, so we always book within the 7 month window, so no biggie there for me. Overall, I like it:thumbsup2

bwvBound
04-15-2010, 12:54 PM
If you could upgrade to a 1 bedroom for $360 (24x$15) or less would you? Many owners will be in that position.Yes, indeed! If this option were in place about two months ago ... I would not be on a waitlist today! I have 102 points "left over" in my current UY. Normally I bank the points w/out a second thought. However ... with D23 events popping up, I decided to book a few nights at GCV at a time I would not normally travel on points. I could afford all three nights in a studio ... but it wasn't available. The 1BR was available but I would have needed to borrow 24 points to book all three nights. I chose to book the first two nights in the 1BR and waitlist for the studio. If the option had been in place -- I would have quickly dished out the $360 and book the 1BR all 3 nights.

I'm wondering exactly how this will work with all the restrictions on this. Personally, I think will increase the number of "secondary" trips owners may take on points.

liznboys
04-15-2010, 01:07 PM
... Don't get me wrong - I think this is a great program. However, I'm wondering how "user-friendly" it is based on resort availability at 7 months. :flower3:

Ditto, sounds great but the 7 month thing I'm not so sure about.

jackskellingtonsgirl
04-15-2010, 01:16 PM
I am too lazy to phone Member Services to ask this question.
It states this is an "alternative" to borrowing. Does that mean you can ONLY add these points to a ressie booked with current UY points? What if I need more than 24 points? Can I borrow some AND add these 24 at $15 each or not? :confused3

KBoopaloo
04-15-2010, 01:45 PM
I was excited about this until I read the part about the 7 month window, though I understand why they are doing it that way.

I am EXACTLY 24 points short for a trip next year but need to book at 11 months out as it is during Premier Season.

Inkmahm
04-15-2010, 01:55 PM
Finally, I think this really is an enhancement to our ownership that the members asked for! :lmao:

It's a great idea. Should help many people who were short a few points for their planned reservations after the points reallocations of the past 2 years.

bookwormde
04-15-2010, 02:11 PM
sounds like a win/win, members ahve a conveniance if they are a few points short and DVC makes a lot more for rooms (points) than they would as breakage. This is assuming that these are not development company owned points.

bookwormde

cobbler
04-15-2010, 02:31 PM
I like it, there are times where I have needed to borrow 8 points and with the one time transfer in/out rule, not many people are wanting to let go of such a small number of points.

I wonder how much the price will go up though when they see it can/will be popular to try to milk it for every last drop.

permavac
04-15-2010, 02:35 PM
Finally, I think this really is an enhancement to our ownership that the members asked for! :lmao:

It's a great idea. Should help many people who were short a few points for their planned reservations after the points reallocations of the past 2 years.

Thank you! It's nice to not lose sight of this since the take-aways "seem" to be more prevalent and get more press. This is truly a value-added benefit. How nice!

Terri

zulaya
04-15-2010, 02:44 PM
Agreeing that this is a nice option.

Not agreeing with the 7 month window.

What's the point if you book at a high demand timeframe at your home resort and have planned to call at the 11 month window?

Do you just leave off that last night and hope it's still there at 7 months out? And hope that points are still available? And then hope the waitlist works?

I can see if someone wanted to book at a non-home resort. Ok, let the 7 month window apply.

But if I'm short 6 points for a stay in a 2BR at BCV during Food & Wine Festival, I can't get my BCV points for the 11 month window, but have to wait until the 7 month window? What's the point?

I wonder if like some have speculated that there are an abundance of SSR points that haven't been sold and that's why the 7 month window has to be used.

Glad the option is there, but it could have been better.

FloFlo71
04-15-2010, 02:48 PM
Are you able to book a cash room at 11 months? If so couldn't you cancel this at 7 months and rebook with these points rented from DVC?

wdrl
04-15-2010, 02:51 PM
sounds like a win/win, members ahve a conveniance if they are a few points short and DVC makes a lot more for rooms (points) than they would as breakage. This is assuming that these are not development company owned points.

bookwormde

Actually, I assume that the majority of points funding this program will come from developer points Disney controls through its ownership and from exchanges into RCI, DCL, etc. For example, Disney has over 2.6 million undeclared points at AKV, over 1.5 million undeclared points at BLT, and over 462,000 SSR points from the undeclared THV Units. Plus Disney probably owns several thousand points at each of the other DVC resorts. The vast majority of these points become cash reservations through CRO, but what is left is now available to rent to DVC members at $15 a point. One advantage of restricting the use of these rental points to the 7-month window is that Disney can draw these points from any resort that has a surplus of Disney-owned points and let the DVC member use them at any resort.

lisareniff
04-15-2010, 03:04 PM
This is a step in the right direction. :thumbsup2

Along with the 7 month restriction, I also have difficulty with the limit of 24 points. Why did they come up with 24? I'm sorry but that is just half a days points for a two bedroom at BCV (Sun-Thurs, Magic Season) when we usually go, while it could be 3 days in a HHI studio during low season.

I would really like to be able rent a few points to reserve that last day at 11 month time period. ....but yet I do understand the downside of allowing that to happen.

Brian Noble
04-15-2010, 03:12 PM
Why did they come up with 24?
Presumably because it's one less than the minimum add-on size of 25.

oct2014
04-15-2010, 03:13 PM
I don't like the 7-month window, but I can see why the limit is 24 points given that 25 points is the minimum for an add on contract. I think at 25 points they see you as a potential add on customer.

Caroline

DVCGeek
04-15-2010, 03:15 PM
Perhaps Disney imposes this restriction to help preserve the home resort priority window.

That makes sense to me and I hope they DO keep it at 7 months only (or at a minimum you must own at the resort for 11 as you mentioned); I bought where I have specifically to have home resort priority; I don't want that diluted by these one-time purchases, BUT I do like the program as it is currently written, even if I personally rarely or never use it. :thumbsup2

Dee77
04-15-2010, 03:16 PM
Is it 24 points per member or by contract? Also I am reading it correctly that it is only for members who have finished paying for their contracts? TIA

DVCGeek
04-15-2010, 03:20 PM
Are you able to book a cash room at 11 months? If so couldn't you cancel this at 7 months and rebook with these points rented from DVC?

Interesting thought...

lumpydj
04-15-2010, 03:22 PM
Are you able to book a cash room at 11 months? If so couldn't you cancel this at 7 months and rebook with these points rented from DVC?

CRO and Points reservations do not come from the same block of rooms. If you cancel a CRO, it will not be opened up for a Points reservation.

SuzanneSLO
04-15-2010, 03:58 PM
Great point! Studios book the fastest and 1 bedrooms the slowest. Maybe this will encourage owners to upgrade to the larger villas without stripping their points. If you could upgrade to a 1 bedroom for $360 (24x$15) or less would you? Many owners will be in that position.

I think the price is fair and it includes tax, which many at the $10 level do not.

Although BWVBound already posted a case when this option would have encouraged a member to upgrade to a 1BR, I think those cases are rare and probably only involve a stay of 3 nights or less.

And for any vacation plan you expect to repeat, it will quickly become more cost effective to own the points than to buy them at $15 (and up) each year. -- Suzanne

tjkraz
04-15-2010, 04:03 PM
I'm wondering exactly how this will work with all the restrictions on this. Here's my theoretical situation.

I'm booking at my home resort at 11 months out. I'm about 10 points shy from booking a full week (last day is 35 points and I only have 25 after all other days are booked). Based on this rule "One-time-use vacation points cannot be applied retroactively to existing reservations", will I be able to add on one last day at 7 months where I use my remaining 25 points and pay for 10?

Yes, you can do that.

Also, I don't see why they couldn't let us pay for the "extra" points needed to complete a day at the 11 month mark. They could limit this by not letting someone buy points to pay for a whole day - only in the case where you need a few to complete a day's worth of points. :confused3

Even the these one-time-use points will have an assigned Home Resort. The problem is that allowing 11 month bookings would require DVC to track inventory for every every single resort. Additionally, on resorts like BCV, VWL, BWV, it's entirely possible that they will not have enough inventory to meet member demand. Those resorts are all "sold out" and DVC only keeps a moderate supply on hand for member add-ons.

By limiting this to 7 months, DVC could use unsold points from SSR, BLT, AKV or even points they re-acquired via ROFR at the likes of Vero and Hilton Head.

It states this is an "alternative" to borrowing. Does that mean you can ONLY add these points to a ressie booked with current UY points? What if I need more than 24 points? Can I borrow some AND add these 24 at $15 each or not? :confused3

Yes, you can do that. It's just being marketed as an alternative to borrowing. It is not a replacement for borrowing.

I am EXACTLY 24 points short for a trip next year but need to book at 11 months out as it is during Premier Season.

If you have no other options, just book as many nights as you can at 11 months and call back 7 months out to see if the final night can be reserved. Premier Season may be the highest-cost time of the year, but that often prevents it from being the overall highest demand period.

Are you able to book a cash room at 11 months? If so couldn't you cancel this at 7 months and rebook with these points rented from DVC?

Rooms booked at cash rates through CRO come from a different inventory. You can't book a CRO room and then convert it to points.

Through DVC, rooms are normally only made available for cash rates when DVC projects that the resorts will otherwise be at less than 100% occupancy. If that's the case, there is really no reason to book at 11 months--something will still be available 7 months out.

tjkraz
04-15-2010, 04:06 PM
Is it 24 points per member or by contract?

Per member. Doesn't matter how many contracts you own--you can only buy 24 per year in a single transaction.

Also I am reading it correctly that it is only for members who have finished paying for their contracts? TIA

No. It is only available to members who have CLOSED on their contract. Closing is the legal process in which ownership of the points is transferred from DVD to the member.

You couldn't sign your DVC paperwork today and use this one-time-use option tomorrow. The contract takes several weeks to close. But after the closing has occurred, this option is available even if you are still making mortgage payments.

LIFERBABE
04-15-2010, 04:40 PM
Although BWVBound already posted a case when this option would have encouraged a member to upgrade to a 1BR, I think those cases are rare and probably only involve a stay of 3 nights or less.

And for any vacation plan you expect to repeat, it will quickly become more cost effective to own the points than to buy them at $15 (and up) each year. -- Suzanne

I really think it depends on how short you are to determine how often this will be used by members.
You really can't look at it 1 way because there are multiple scenarios that will apply.
Availability is a big factor that could drive you to upgrade using the 1ups.

And I would add on before I use this option often, but there is value in the convenience that makes the price easy to absorb whereas an addon is more of a liability. Also DVC does not provide financing for add ons of less than 50 points so coming up with $360 may be easier to use each year rather than a few thousand Cash for a 25 point or more add on will appeal to many. With closing costs and maintenance fees for a 25 point add on you could use these points 7 times for the same cost.

Sammie
04-15-2010, 04:40 PM
I am thrilled so many are excited about this, but truly I just do not see the advantage of doing this over borrrowing for us.

Is 24 extra points really going to help?

We never stay in anything less than a two bedroom which 24 points will not get us any extra day in any season.

And if I wish to stay an extra Friday or Saturday night, paying cashing and using an AP discount is a much better deal.

I guess if you only stay in studios maybe it will be an asset. I am sure knowing DVC/Disney there is a huge advantage to doing this for them and not so much so for the members.

aDVCguy
04-15-2010, 04:43 PM
:confused3

Forgive myself if this has been brought up...

Am I correct in believing that the going rate for
borrowing points from a fellow DVCer is @ $10/pt.?

I also don't know if there's tax on said borrowing...
if there isn't(tax or add'l fees) why go through
Disney?

Anyone have some first hand insight?

Thanks!;)

jackskellingtonsgirl
04-15-2010, 04:51 PM
I can see advantages for my family. For example, this year we were 4 pts. short and didn't have any available to borrow. We burned our ONE transfer to get 4 pts. from a friend. Yes, that was easy and allowed us to get the ressie we wanted at more than 7 mos. because my friend and I both own at AKV. But if she wouldn't have had pts. on hand or if she had already used her transfer or whatever, this would have been a fine alternative for us. I probably would have simply booked a cash night and then tried to convert it at 7 mos. :)

Chuck S
04-15-2010, 04:54 PM
:confused3

Forgive myself if this has been brought up...

Am I correct in believing that the going rate for
borrowing points from a fellow DVCer is @ $10/pt.?

I also don't know if there's tax on said borrowing...
if there isn't(tax or add'l fees) why go through
Disney?

Anyone have some first hand insight?


I'm thinking the advantage would be convenience, and the safety aspect of not dealing with someone unknown from the internet...plus having the transfer readily available.


You are correct that, as far as average prices seen on the R/T Board, you save at least 1/3 going through a member vs Disney, and possibly more.

Inkmahm
04-15-2010, 04:55 PM
:confused3

Forgive myself if this has been brought up...

Am I correct in believing that the going rate for
borrowing points from a fellow DVCer is @ $10/pt.?

I also don't know if there's tax on said borrowing...
if there isn't(tax or add'l fees) why go through
Disney?

Anyone have some first hand insight?

Thanks!;)

If you borrow from a fellow member, you are either renting the points from them or transfering their points to you. In the first case, they keep control over the points and have to book a reservation for you. In the second case, you'd have to find someone willing to transfer a very small number of points to you (remember, the Disney option is for 24 points or less.) In either case, it would be much easier just to rent the points you need from Disney and add them to your own so that you control your reservation completely.

appleorchard
04-15-2010, 04:57 PM
We're enthusiastic about it because we often come up just a few points short--and we're always in borrow mode. This is simple, doesn't involve searching for someone with points, trusting them to make a reservation, or trying to find someone to transfer a small number of points etc etc. The convenience will make it well worth it for us. It's a definite win-win from where we sit.

disneynutz
04-15-2010, 05:11 PM
I am thrilled so many are excited about this, but truly I just do not see the advantage of doing this over borrowing for us.

Is 24 extra points really going to help?

We never stay in anything less than a two bedroom which 24 points will not get us any extra day in any season.

And if I wish to stay an extra Friday or Saturday night, paying cashing and using an AP discount is a much better deal.

I guess if you only stay in studios maybe it will be an asset. I am sure knowing DVC/Disney there is a huge advantage to doing this for them and not so much so for the members.

My guess is that they continue to get complaints from members who are upset with the point reallocation. I bet most members are short 24 points or less.

Typical DVC, change the rules then benefit from it buy selling additional points or renting to members who can't afford to purchase.

:earsboy: Bill

Snurk71
04-15-2010, 05:13 PM
Another positive vote for the 7 month restriction!!!

We just added on to make sure we have enough purchased points at 11 months. I think me as a point buyer should still hold some home advantage over the member who short-buys for their trips and needs to rent.

CarolMN
04-15-2010, 05:18 PM
At least one of the documents I signed at purchase said that points themselves have no value and so members are not allowed to accept compensation for transferring points to another member.

Appears that does not apply to DVC itself! Anyone else find that ironic? ;)

I am wondering if any of the revenue from this venture will go back to reduce member dues. If the points are from undeclared or administrative inventory, then I have no problem with Disney or the Developer getting the revenue. But if any of the points come from member trades (like cruising on points), then I think the revenue should go to reduce member dues, just like breakage inventory does.

dianeschlicht
04-15-2010, 05:54 PM
At least one of the documents I signed at purchase said that points themselves have no value and so members are not allowed to accept compensation for transferring points to another member.

Appears that does not apply to DVC itself! Anyone else find that ironic? ;)

I am wondering if any of the revenue from this venture will go back to reduce member dues. If the points are from undeclared or administrative inventory, then I have no problem with Disney or the Developer getting the revenue. But if any of the points come from member trades (like cruising on points), then I think the revenue should go to reduce member dues, just like breakage inventory does.

That was my thought too, Carol, and I just assumed it would be undeclared or bought back inventory that had points about to expire. The current rules wouldn't allow for them to just "rent" out points from current sales inventory.

Hey, maybe that's where they could get the extra 5% needed to make the renos at OKW complete!

LOVETHATMOUSE
04-15-2010, 06:32 PM
Maybe someone can explain it, but why would you want to purchase points in leu of borrowing from what you already have? We always borrow from the next years use, but it always evens out in the end. I've already "paid" for my room, so why lay out more money?? Maybe I'm not getting it :confused3

Chuck S
04-15-2010, 06:42 PM
Maybe someone can explain it, but why would you want to purchase points in leu of borrowing from what you already have? We always borrow from the next years use, but it always evens out in the end. I've already "paid" for my room, so why lay out more money?? Maybe I'm not getting it :confused3

Maybe they have already pre-planned a vacation using the ponts from the next use year, so they don't want to borrow.

I doubt it is an option I would use, I would more likely simply shorten a trip by a day if needed...but never say never.

keishashadow
04-15-2010, 06:48 PM
Finally, I think this really is an enhancement to our ownership that the members asked for! :lmao:

It's a great idea. Should help many people who were short a few points for their planned reservations after the points reallocations of the past 2 years.

me;)

Agreeing that this is a nice option.

Not agreeing with the 7 month window.

What's the point if you book at a high demand timeframe at your home resort and have planned to call at the 11 month window?

Do you just leave off that last night and hope it's still there at 7 months out? And hope that points are still available? And then hope the waitlist works?

I can see if someone wanted to book at a non-home resort. Ok, let the 7 month window apply.

But if I'm short 6 points for a stay in a 2BR at BCV during Food & Wine Festival, I can't get my BCV points for the 11 month window, but have to wait until the 7 month window? What's the point?

I wonder if like some have speculated that there are an abundance of SSR points that haven't been sold and that's why the 7 month window has to be used.

Glad the option is there, but it could have been better.

agree

many of us bought as many points (if not more;)) as a 'regular' membership bought thru DVC overall, we just went a different route & bought resale & added on @ other resorts to get the 11 month window.

Brian Noble
04-15-2010, 07:00 PM
Those resorts are all "sold out" and DVC only keeps a moderate supply on hand for member add-ons.
I suspect these points are not coming from salable inventory. Instead, I'm guessing the supply is coming the inventory relinquished for Disney Resort Collection, DCL, and ABD "exchanges". Right now, those points must be rented through CRO, with the proceeds used to pay the appropriate business unit the Member is vacationing with. This provides an extra (and, by my calculations, quite likely more lucrative) outlet for monetizing those points.

Goofy DVC
04-15-2010, 07:35 PM
I understand why Disney would allow it at 7 months only, due to not having to keep track of all the different resort points, but regardless of that how in the world do they track the different use years of all those points and if any of the money goes back to the resorts how do they divy it up?

DeeCee735
04-15-2010, 08:03 PM
I think DVC and DVD knew exactly where the reallocation of points was taking them. After the first year of a reallocation alot of members complained that the change left them short a few points for the vacations they normally take (got that straight from my guide). Then, they reallocated a second year in a row. I think they knew where it was going for DVC and I think offering to rent a few points per year for a fee was the plan all along.
I also think they want to "curve" the private rental of points, especially since it's specifically prohibited (for $), and bring themselves into the rental market.

I'm not saying I don't think it's a good idea, it works for both sides. I just don't think this was a new idea for them.

wdrl
04-15-2010, 08:06 PM
I understand why Disney would allow it at 7 months only, due to not having to keep track of all the different resort points, but regardless of that how in the world do they track the different use years of all those points and if any of the money goes back to the resorts how do they divy it up?

The news item on the member website specifically states that the points for this program are coming from the Disney Vacation Development, Inc. As such, these points are not coming from breakage or from exchanges, which are points essentially from the DVC inventory. I don't think the DVC membership is entitled to any income derived from points that come from DVD's developer inventory. As I have said before, DVD can draw from its inventory of undeclared points at BLT, AKV, and SSR to fund this new program. If DVD didn't rent these points to the membership, they would be used for cash reservations through CRO. Correct me if I am wrong, but the income DVD derives from CRO cash reservations from developer points is not shared with the DVC members.

disneynutz
04-15-2010, 08:29 PM
Sounds correct to me. I didn't find out until recently that DVC turns unrented rooms over to CRO at 60 days prior to any given check in date. Once booked to a cash Guest, that room isn't available to DVC Member calling less than 60 days out. Another reason to book early.

:earsboy: Bill

Inkmahm
04-15-2010, 08:31 PM
I think DVC and DVD knew exactly where the reallocation of points was taking them. After the first year of a reallocation alot of members complained that the change left them short a few points for the vacations they normally take (got that straight from my guide). Then, they reallocated a second year in a row. I think they knew where it was going for DVC and I think offering to rent a few points per year for a fee was the plan all along.
I also think they want to "curve" the private rental of points, especially since it's specifically prohibited (for $), and bring themselves into the rental market.

I'm not saying I don't think it's a good idea, it works for both sides. I just don't think this was a new idea for them.

Private rental of points for $ is NOT specifically prohibited. Renting by owners to nonowners is allowed.

supersuperwendy
04-15-2010, 08:51 PM
I think it's a great idea. A while back I was in need of one stinking point! I wish they were offering it then!!

Dean
04-15-2010, 08:58 PM
I'm sorry to see this limited to the 7-month window. With the point chart changes, I'm a few points short on a couple of my usual stays. But I would need those points at the 11-month window. If I have to wait until the 7-month window, I can just use points I own at other resorts, provided there is still availability to book the last night I need.I haven't read through it all yet (though I scanned it) so if I'm repetitive, please forgive me. Given the points offered are likely to be from any number of resorts, I don't see how they could do it otherwise else they'd have to have essentially a number of different programs, one for each home resort since they are also bound by the club rules with their points.

I think DVC and DVD knew exactly where the reallocation of points was taking them. After the first year of a reallocation alot of members complained that the change left them short a few points for the vacations they normally take (got that straight from my guide). Then, they reallocated a second year in a row. I think they knew where it was going for DVC and I think offering to rent a few points per year for a fee was the plan all along.
I also think they want to "curve" the private rental of points, especially since it's specifically prohibited (for $), and bring themselves into the rental market.

I'm not saying I don't think it's a good idea, it works for both sides. I just don't think this was a new idea for them.I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory. I'll also point out that rental for $ is specifically allowed in the POS, not prohibited. The only restrictions are transfers for $ and "commercial activity".

Sammie
04-15-2010, 10:52 PM
I guess if you have borrowed your max and were only a few short to be able to add another day, I might see the advantage. But I doubt since we always need a two bedroom it will work for us, but as Chuck said, you never know.

VLee
04-15-2010, 10:55 PM
Can see both sides of the 11 month option, but since we typically book most of our reservations at 11 months out, it would be nice to be able to borrow at that point.

I have made my own reservations and have linked it with a night or two made by another member (to keep from borrowing). However, linking is a pain and doesn't always get done properly by MS and I feel the need to check on it a couple of times. The option to borrow a few points would eliminate this need to get points from another member--even though it could probably be done less expensively. The extra money is worth the lack of headaches in having to get another member to set up DDP, Magical Express and then assist in linking.

Also, when obtaining a reservation as above, you cannot split your points with another member's points to reserve just one night. As a result, you may have ended up with a few points, that you could not even bank-- if it fell too late in your use year. This way, you can use your few remaining points and just get what you need to complete the one or two night reservation from DVC.

This just happened to me when I had to modify an existing reservation and was past my banking window. I did not have quite enough points for a night.
I had to get a linked reservation made by another member and ended up losing some points in my membership.

LIFERBABE
04-15-2010, 11:48 PM
I will add that this is per membership. That means I have 3 memberships with 3 UY's and 3 member numbers so I can use this on each of my 3 memberships. .

Remember there are people out there with trusts etc. that combine alot of memberships to rent.

They make way more than $15 a point on Ebay and other sites. This is the reason transfers were limited in the first place. If they have this option, this could create the loophole they need to book multiple villas for rental that the transfer rule tried to close. One person I know for sure was found to have multiple deeds and memberships in family members name and was using them to buy up cheap points and reservations and then reselling them here and other sites.

Is it really fair to open these points up at 11 months and that would allow people that otherwise would not have the points to book even more spec days? They know they will recoup their money and pass it on to the renter. I shudder to think that as an owner of BCV where the competition is already fierce that I would also have to compete with these points.

If these were 11 month points, I would expect them to cost way more than $15

LisaS
04-16-2010, 12:43 AM
I haven't read through it all yet (though I scanned it) so if I'm repetitive, please forgive me. Given the points offered are likely to be from any number of resorts, I don't see how they could do it otherwise else they'd have to have essentially a number of different programs, one for each home resort since they are also bound by the club rules with their points.I agree that there would be a number of issues. The management software would be more complicated and I doubt they could justify the development costs or the wait for the software to be developed. They probably will re-deploy software they have used to manage developer points from prior incentive programs. And I imagine most of the points in the pool will be from resorts that are not sold out so BLT, SSR and AKV owners looking for a few home resort points 11 months out would be more likely to get them than BCV or VWL owners, causing some members to be upset that they didn't have equal access to points at the 11-month window. So restricting this to the 7 month window is understandable but it also eliminates a lot of potential customers for this new program. I think many of us would only find this useful if we could get those last few points we need 11 months out to book that last night of our stay that now costs more points due to the point re-allocations. As I said, it's understandable but it's also disappointing.

LisaS
04-16-2010, 01:27 AM
Another positive vote for the 7 month restriction!!!

We just added on to make sure we have enough purchased points at 11 months. I think me as a point buyer should still hold some home advantage over the member who short-buys for their trips and needs to rent.When I added on at VWL, I bought enough points to stay every other year by banking or borrowing. I even bought a few extra points in case we decided to go at a different time of year which required more points. Then the point charts changed and now that cushion isn't quite big enough... I'm 4 points short. So I didn't deliberately "short buy" but now find myself in that situation, along with a lot of other members, due to the point re-allocation. Being able to rent those 4 points I'm going to need would be helpful, but only if I can do it 11 months out.

emlutz23
04-16-2010, 07:20 AM
We always plan at 11 months out, so the only way I see this working for us is if we want to switch from our home (SSR) to another resort at 7 months and we could buy the extra points for a more "expensive" resort. Then I can be rest assured knowing that I will have enough points for my next trip since I'm not borrowing more. But it doesn't make sense if we were short at the 11 month mark already. It's a step in the right direction, but only a step. Perhaps if it's successful, they will let us take advantage of this at 11 months.

Greatfalls
04-16-2010, 10:42 AM
I doubt that they would ever convert this to 11 months. With the 24-point max and the 7-month window, it looks like they structured this so it won't compete with add-ons of 25-50 points. If you could use these points like home resort points, then it gets pretty close to the same thing as an add-on.

Sunshine22
04-16-2010, 12:24 PM
I think many have complained that they are now just a few points short of their original plans, and that it is difficult to find someone to transfer just a few points to their account for a reservation. I'm not worried that this will limit availability. I think this is a nice solution to the point adjustment issue that some have raised.

Jaylin
04-16-2010, 12:29 PM
I also apologize if this has been asked, I didn't see it anywhere.

Our senerio is that we planned on going every other year. But we want to do the next 3 consectutive years while the kiddos are still little. So that involves some borrowing.

Do you think you are only allowed to rent the 24points if you are out of current UY points and would be forced to borrow to complete your ressie? Could I rent the points if I'm not out of current year points and then bank some current year points for the next year and then rent points that year also?

Hope that made sense!

CruznLexi
04-16-2010, 12:33 PM
I just did this yesterday. I am getting my niece for 3 nights so I needed some extra points. I have California in Jan yet to book and that will eat my points. It was $360 and that is almost what a 2 nightstay at CBR would run. It was very easy. From calling MS to booking and adding points was like 15 min. I was thinking of adding about 25 points but this is way easier.
Lexi

RweTHEREyet
04-16-2010, 12:33 PM
Another positive vote for the 7 month restriction!!!

We just added on to make sure we have enough purchased points at 11 months. I think me as a point buyer should still hold some home advantage over the member who short-buys for their trips and needs to rent.

But I would like to be able to purchase a few points to use at my home resort at the 11 month window. I booked a ressie this morning for January where I had to borrow 22 points. It would have been nice to purchase them from Disney and leave my next year's points in tact.

wdrl
04-16-2010, 12:40 PM
I also apologize if this has been asked, I didn't see it anywhere.

Do you think you are only allowed to rent the 24points if you are out of current UY points and would be forced to borrow to complete your ressie? Could I rent the points if I'm not out of current year points and then bank some current year points for the next year and then rent points that year also?

Hope that made sense!

I think you can rent these points even though you have banked, current, or borrowed points of your own. The only restriction is that your account is in good standing (all dues and mortgage payments are up to date).

Chuck S
04-16-2010, 12:41 PM
I wonder, though, if this basically negates the effect the recent reallocations had on the majority of owners, does it also basically negate the overall function of the reallocation?

In other words, if balancing occupany needed to be done, and this renting negates the balancing for more members, will it lead to even more severe reallocations in the coming years?

BEASLYBOO
04-16-2010, 12:56 PM
I wonder, though, if this basically negates the effect the recent reallocations had on the majority of owners, does it also basically negate the overall function of the reallocation?
Chuck, do you think the point reallocation changed the way DVC'rs travel? ie: I was before the 1st re-allocation a Sun-Thu DVC traveler and I remain so even after the 2nd re-allocation. I seldom use week-end points.

Chuck S
04-16-2010, 01:14 PM
Chuck, do you think the point reallocation changed the way DVC'rs travel? ie: I was before the 1st re-allocation a Sun-Thu DVC traveler and I remain so even after the 2nd re-allocation. I seldom use week-end points.

In theory, the only reason to reallocate is to change the travel patterns (and thus occupancy/demand) of the resorts. We'll never really know now, if it had the desired effect, of if a greater reallocation is deemed necessary, because the 2011 reallocation won't even have ben in full effect for a more than a few months before this rental option came online.

As many people here as were complaining that they couldn't stay the same number of days, yes, without the ability to rent these points, I think it would have made a difference in the way a number DVCers traveled.

Brian Noble
04-16-2010, 01:24 PM
does it also basically negate the overall function of the reallocation?
I don't think so. There is still a clear economic incentive to use fewer points rather than more. This just makes it logistically easier to use more. Indeed the "rental penalty" appears to me to be higher than the "owning penalty"----in most cases, under most sets of reasonable assumptions, the cost per point-year of owning is less than $15/point.

For example, if you amortize/depreciate at 8% per year, a new "full price" AKV point costs about $14 per year at current dues rates. And, 8% is probably a little high.

wdrl
04-16-2010, 01:31 PM
I wonder, though, if this basically negates the effect the recent reallocations had on the majority of owners, does it also basically negate the overall function of the reallocation?

In other words, if balancing occupany needed to be done, and this renting negates the balancing for more members, will it lead to even more severe reallocations in the coming years?

I don't think this new program will negate the effects of the reallocation. Or, at the very least, there are so many other intervening variables that come into play that it will be virtually impossible to measure the impact of this program on booking habits. There may be members who will rent points to maintain their accustomed Sun-Thur vacation trips. But there might be an equal number of members who will rent points so they can book a Friday or Saturday night as part of their trip. Thus, one group might offset the impact of the other group.

I can imagine all sorts of ways this program might impact booking habits irrespective of the weekday-weekend issue. With an extra 24 points at their fingertips, members might add an extra night, or they might upgrade to a more expensive view category. For example, during the Choice season a member can upgrade a one-bedroom AKV standard view villa to a savanna view for 6 points a night.

JenSop
04-16-2010, 03:27 PM
I just wish this had come along a month earlier, as we definitely could have used it. We didn't want to borrow as many points from 2011 for this years trip, but we knew that we were planning on a 25 point add on next year, so we knew that borrowing meant we HAD to do the add on. If this option were around just a month ago when we were re-doing our reservation, we would've been able to take advantage of it, as we didn't need a ton of points. Oh well. I'm sure it will come in handy for many whose weekday vacations now cost more points.

Sounds like a great way for DVC to make extra cash.

Inkmahm
04-16-2010, 04:38 PM
Chuck, do you think the point reallocation changed the way DVC'rs travel? ie: I was before the 1st re-allocation a Sun-Thu DVC traveler and I remain so even after the 2nd re-allocation. I seldom use week-end points.

I'm not Chuck but I can tell you that it HAS changed the way that we travel. I previously traveled from weekday to weekday, usually a Tues to Monday or a Thurs to Wed. Now I've started to add additional weekend nights by traveling Sat to Sunday. The points don't hurt as much as they did before so we can add more weekend nights to our trips.

buck4568
04-16-2010, 04:58 PM
I'm not Chuck but I can tell you that it HAS changed the way that we travel. I previously traveled from weekday to weekday, usually a Tues to Monday or a Thurs to Wed. Now I've started to add additional weekend nights by traveling Sat to Sunday. The points don't hurt as much as they did before so we can add more weekend nights to our trips.

All debating aside, I think this ability to add a few points it is a great idea! I only wish they had done it years ago. I can recall many trips that would have been much easier to book, and I have gone to the R/T page to acquire a small number of points to complete a reservation and just the time saved with this new policy is worth the few extra dollars it might cost.

Dean
04-16-2010, 07:07 PM
I agree that there would be a number of issues. The management software would be more complicated and I doubt they could justify the development costs or the wait for the software to be developed. They probably will re-deploy software they have used to manage developer points from prior incentive programs. And I imagine most of the points in the pool will be from resorts that are not sold out so BLT, SSR and AKV owners looking for a few home resort points 11 months out would be more likely to get them than BCV or VWL owners, causing some members to be upset that they didn't have equal access to points at the 11-month window. So restricting this to the 7 month window is understandable but it also eliminates a lot of potential customers for this new program. I think many of us would only find this useful if we could get those last few points we need 11 months out to book that last night of our stay that now costs more points due to the point re-allocations. As I said, it's understandable but it's also disappointing.No doubt it restricts the usefulness but does simplify the program. It remains to be seen what points they'll use for this, is it only developer points or all possible sources? I'm guessing it's al sources where points are available which would eliminate undeclared inventory but allow disposal of exchanged points. I don't think this would help with breakage inventory because that's more unit specific than points specific. I also doubt they'd have enough points consistently to allow this routinely at 11 months out. They could change it to allow these points to be used in this limited fashion 11 months out but not only would they need a POS change, it'd be one that would require an actual member vote as I read it.

Overall it's a good option and a fair price and seems set up reasonably to help members who are a little short without any major impact to other competing members. Like any other program it will not be perfect and there will be some that are left out for one of several possible reasons.

Chuck, do you think the point reallocation changed the way DVC'rs travel? ie: I was before the 1st re-allocation a Sun-Thu DVC traveler and I remain so even after the 2nd re-allocation. I seldom use week-end points.I think it's both ways. I think the reallocation was needed due to member changes over time and expect that there will be changes in member behavior with the current system. However, it seems they've swung far past the numbers that will balance weekend and weekday usage, the question is why. Are they trying to quickly change member behavior and then later reallocate back the other way to end up in between, or do they have something else in store, maybe a minimum stay.

TisBit
04-16-2010, 09:09 PM
I wonder, though, if this basically negates the effect the recent reallocations had on the majority of owners, does it also basically negate the overall function of the reallocation?

In other words, if balancing occupany needed to be done, and this renting negates the balancing for more members, will it lead to even more severe reallocations in the coming years?

I think it does two things...it allows members who were complaining of being 1-5 points shy of a stay to be able to continue to use their membership. Second, I think it will help eat up developer inventory that frequently goes unused with CRO bookings, which in turn helps create positive revenue.

hardingk
04-17-2010, 02:39 PM
Does anyone know if you can purchase the points for a new reservation? Or does it have to be an add on to a reservation that you do not have enough points for? We have already made reservations for all of our 2010 UY points. We are thinking of doing a short trip early next year, can I make a new reservation by purchasing the rental points?

CarolMN
04-17-2010, 02:46 PM
Does anyone know if you can purchase the points for a new reservation? Or does it have to be an add on to a reservation that you do not have enough points for? We have already made reservations for all of our 2010 UY points. We are thinking of doing a short trip early next year, can I make a new reservation by purchasing the rental points?Sounds like yes, you can. But you can only make the reservation 7 months or sooner before arrival and there is a limit to the number of points you can rent from this program (no more than 24).

Sammie
04-17-2010, 05:50 PM
I wonder, though, if this basically negates the effect the recent reallocations had on the majority of owners, does it also basically negate the overall function of the reallocation?

In other words, if balancing occupany needed to be done, and this renting negates the balancing for more members, will it lead to even more severe reallocations in the coming years?

Or was the reallocation really needed at all but forced people into a situaton where this offer would be something they would utilize.

Did DVC in fact orchestrate the entire thing to make money.

Or was the reallocation necessary but after a barage of complaints they fixed it with a means to make money for them. Win-win for DVC.

Skip Wiley
04-17-2010, 05:53 PM
I think you can rent these points even though you have banked, current, or borrowed points of your own. The only restriction is that your account is in good standing (all dues and mortgage payments are up to date).

I purchased 24 points today and inquired about restrictions, the MS representative told me you could only purchase if you were out of current points to use. Since we are always borrowing that's not an issue for us, might as well buy 24 points each use year to conserve points.

Dean
04-17-2010, 05:55 PM
Or was the reallocation really needed at all but forced people into a situaton where this offer would be something they would utilize.

Did DVC in fact orchestrate the entire thing to make money.

Or was the reallocation necessary but after a barage of complaints they fixed it with a means to make money for them. Win-win for DVC.Clearly a reallocation was needed. I don't see this policy as a money maker for DVC and don't think it will be for DVD either. What it might do is reduce the cash equivalent exchange options long term since DVD runs this program on a zero sum approach.

Dean
04-17-2010, 05:56 PM
I purchased 24 points today and inquired about restrictions, the MS representative told me you could only purchase if you were out of current points to use. Since we are always borrowing that's not an issue for us, might as well buy 24 points each use year to conserve points.That is a good point, even if one doesn't really need the points at a given time it will allow one to save as many as 24 points a year to aggregate points for a larger trip at some point. One could ultimately use 24 points every year with proper planning.

keishashadow
04-17-2010, 06:45 PM
I purchased 24 points today and inquired about restrictions, the MS representative told me you could only purchase if you were out of current points to use. Since we are always borrowing that's not an issue for us, might as well buy 24 points each use year to conserve points.

:confused:if u have banked (some) points into your next UY & later decide u then need to borrow points for spur-of-the-moment trip & would like to buy/rent some extra points from DVC, can u purchase points for that trip?

Sammie
04-17-2010, 08:32 PM
Clearly a reallocation was needed. I don't see this policy as a money maker for DVC and don't think it will be for DVD either. What it might do is reduce the cash equivalent exchange options long term since DVD runs this program on a zero sum approach.

Very possible.

Inkmahm
04-18-2010, 08:35 AM
:confused:if u have banked (some) points into your next UY & later decide u then need to borrow points for spur-of-the-moment trip & would like to buy/rent some extra points from DVC, can u purchase points for that trip?

Excellent question!

Dean
04-18-2010, 09:15 AM
:confused:if u have banked (some) points into your next UY & later decide u then need to borrow points for spur-of-the-moment trip & would like to buy/rent some extra points from DVC, can u purchase points for that trip?I'm sure the answer is yes, I would expect the only restriction is that you not currently have points available in a given UY. I wouldn't at all be surprised if they allowed the purchase if you had points in the same UY but a different resort that the points you were using. I think the exact specifics and options/restrictions will evolve over time.

CarolMN
04-18-2010, 09:50 AM
...(snip)... I think the exact specifics and options/restrictions will evolve over time.I agree. :)

On another board, someone reported buying 5 points yesterday (4/17). She said you have to ask for it (as the CMs are not all that familiar with it yet. She had to stop the CM from automatically borrowing points to complete her reservation).

Her CM had to conference in another CM who secured the points, made sure the purchased points would match the reservation and took her credit card payment. She was told the points were developer points.

But what I found very interesting was that she was told that these truly are "one time use" points. Even if she cancels the reservation more than 30 days in advance, the 5 purchased points cannot be reused. That's new information!

tjkraz
04-18-2010, 09:55 AM
But what I found very interesting was that she was told that these truly are "one time use" points. Even if she cancels the reservation more than 30 days in advance, the 5 purchased points cannot be reused. That's new information!

That is not correct. I specifically questioned a DVC rep (someone higher in the food chain than Member Services) about what flexibility exists if the reservation is canceled. The points CAN be used for a re-booking, but expire at the end of the member's Use Year. Here is the exact quote:

One-time-use vacation points expire according to the use year of the reservation booked and are non-refundable, non-transferable, and cannot be banked or borrowed.

CarolMN
04-18-2010, 09:59 AM
That is not correct. I specifically questioned a DVC rep (someone higher in the food chain than Member Services) about what flexibility exists if the reservation is canceled. The points CAN be used for a re-booking, but expire at the end of the member's Use Year. Here is the exact quote:

One-time-use vacation points expire according to the use year of the reservation booked and are non-refundable, non-transferable, and cannot be banked or borrowed.

OK. Good to know. I guess the really important info then is that the CMs are not all that familiar with the program just yet. :teeth:

Dean
04-18-2010, 10:14 AM
But what I found very interesting was that she was told that these truly are "one time use" points. Even if she cancels the reservation more than 30 days in advance, the 5 purchased points cannot be reused. That's new information!The info clearly states they are one time use but they expire the end of the UY as Tim suggests. Other than avoiding raiding the home resort inventory at a high demand resort and not interfering too much for add on sales, they really have no incentive to make this overly restrictive. ASAMOF, I wouldn't be surprised to see the program extended and the min add on increased again.

As for developer vs other points, I wouldn't put much stock in what MS CM say in that area since they likely don't know. Even if it's developer points only, it helps other members related to trading out because there would be less developer point CRO reservations and thus less competition. The other question is whether cash days remain an option, I would guess yes but could see it going either way.

BWV Dreamin
04-18-2010, 10:51 AM
Two things that are still not clear to me. If I have an existing reservation at 11 mos, can I purchase points at 7 mos mark to link to an existing reservation? Like if I want to add one more day to my reservation, I don't want to check out and back in for that one day. Also, if I have a few points remaining in my UY, but not enough to make a one night reservation, can I purchase just the points I need to ADD to my remaining points and thus make a reservation, at the 7 mos. mark?

LIFERBABE
04-18-2010, 11:06 AM
Two things that are still not clear to me. If I have an existing reservation at 11 mos, can I purchase points at 7 mos mark to link to an existing reservation? Like if I want to add one more day to my reservation, I don't want to check out and back in for that one day. Also, if I have a few points remaining in my UY, but not enough to make a one night reservation, can I purchase just the points I need to ADD to my remaining points and thus make a reservation, at the 7 mos. mark?

My understanding is yes to all the above.

Dean
04-18-2010, 11:40 AM
Two things that are still not clear to me. If I have an existing reservation at 11 mos, can I purchase points at 7 mos mark to link to an existing reservation? Like if I want to add one more day to my reservation, I don't want to check out and back in for that one day. Also, if I have a few points remaining in my UY, but not enough to make a one night reservation, can I purchase just the points I need to ADD to my remaining points and thus make a reservation, at the 7 mos. mark?As I read it the answer is yes to both. The main question that I have is whether you can do this for more than 1 reservations within a UY for any circumstances (my first impression is no) and whether you could do multiple reservations during the same UY but for different UY travel.

Danamy
04-18-2010, 08:54 PM
I'm confused. I keep hearing purchase, but essentially wouldn't it just be renting additional points for that current reservation need?

magicaldisney
04-18-2010, 09:07 PM
Yes, I also said that some posts back. It really is just renting points for that particular vacation.

keishashadow
04-19-2010, 09:21 AM
I'm sure the answer is yes, I would expect the only restriction is that you not currently have points available in a given UY. I wouldn't at all be surprised if they allowed the purchase if you had points in the same UY but a different resort that the points you were using. I think the exact specifics and options/restrictions will evolve over time.

this would surprise me, but certainly would be very helpful for many

im sure somebody will run into this scenario & post soon:)

BEASLYBOO
04-19-2010, 09:26 AM
Without having to call MS, does anyone know how much they are charging per point?

Chuck S
04-19-2010, 09:50 AM
Without having to call MS, does anyone know how much they are charging per point?

$15pp, tax included.

BEASLYBOO
04-19-2010, 12:30 PM
$15pp, tax included.I've run 1 or 2 points short when I couldn't borrow and I think $15 is more than fair.

Thanks Chuck!

drusba
04-19-2010, 12:58 PM
I'm confused. I keep hearing purchase, but essentially wouldn't it just be renting additional points for that current reservation need?

That is exactly what it is even though phrased as a sale. You will note that the tax (12.5%) that is built into the $15 price of the points is the typical resort tax for renters from Disney and not a sales tax.

Dean
04-19-2010, 05:37 PM
this would surprise me, but certainly would be very helpful for many

im sure somebody will run into this scenario & post soon:)I wouldn't be surprised either way but there really is no downside to it. Regardless there are stategies that will allow this option to be used for almost every situation where one may need more points on a short term or once every few years basis. One could work it where you got as many as 24 points every year if you wanted. It would certainly be workable to get up to 72 extra points for a larger reservation than one normally uses. Obviously if one needs it routinely, doing an add on may have advantages.

keishashadow
04-19-2010, 05:54 PM
I wouldn't be surprised either way but there really is no downside to it. Regardless there are stategies that will allow this option to be used for almost every situation where one may need more points on a short term or once every few years basis. One could work it where you got as many as 24 points every year if you wanted. It would certainly be workable to get up to 72 extra points for a larger reservation than one normally uses. Obviously if one needs it routinely, doing an add on may have advantages.

as long as they stick to the 7 month window, then i agree...upon reflection 11 months widens the pool too much for prime time difficult to grab reservations imo.

im fuzzy though on whether DVC permits owners to bank more points than one of their contracts is actually worth (example: a 100 point contract + 24 DVC rental points being banked & borrowed for possible 372 point rental:confused3).

Dean
04-19-2010, 06:43 PM
as long as they stick to the 7 month window, then i agree...upon reflection 11 months widens the pool too much for prime time difficult to grab reservations imo.

im fuzzy though on whether DVC permits owners to bank more points than one of their contracts is actually worth (example: a 100 point contract + 24 DVC rental points being banked & borrowed for possible 372 point rental:confused3).11 months would be workable in the sense that you could only use points from a given resort before 7 months due to the restrictions. At 7 months they don't have to track the home resort of the points in question and makes it much simpler and easier.

SuzanneSLO
04-19-2010, 07:06 PM
[snip]
im fuzzy though on whether DVC permits owners to bank more points than one of their contracts is actually worth (example: a 100 point contract + 24 DVC rental points being banked & borrowed for possible 372 point rental:confused3).

The 24 points "rented" from DVC cannot be banked or borrowed. They must be used in the UY for which they are first purchased. What it would allow is a member to take a 24 point vacation in Year 1, a 3X your total plus 24 points in year 2 and a 24 point vacation in Year 3.

When you receive transferred points, which are bankable, you can bank more than your total number of points, althoug I think the max is 3 times. -- Suzanne

Dean
04-19-2010, 07:19 PM
im fuzzy though on whether DVC permits owners to bank more points than one of their contracts is actually worth (example: a 100 point contract + 24 DVC rental points being banked & borrowed for possible 372 point rental:confused3).While the POS gives a statement as to how many points you can aggregate by banking/borrowing of 300%, I read that as more a statement of expectation than a restriction. While the 24 points cannot be banked, transferred points can and thus more than a full years worth of points can be banked. Also, the banking windows have not been applied to transferred points that I am aware of but that could change at some point.

keishashadow
04-20-2010, 07:10 AM
im taking notes, thanx;)

d-r
04-20-2010, 09:23 AM
that's awesome that they did that

charvel67
04-25-2010, 09:37 AM
We are making a ressie for late October this week. Can I bank some of my 2010 points into 2011 first and then purchase up the 24 points allowable in order to have enough for our stay? In other words, we need 40 pts. for our stay. I would like to bank all my points with the exception of 16 pts. and purchase the one time use allowable 24 points to equal my 40 required for our stay. I'd like to do this because we will be heading back again in May 2011 and banking will help for that stay along with purchasing the 24 allowable one time use points again in 2011.

Dean
04-25-2010, 09:46 AM
We are making a ressie for late October this week. Can I bank some of my 2010 points into 2011 first and then purchase up the 24 points allowable in order to have enough for our stay? In other words, we need 40 pts. for our stay. I would like to bank all my points with the exception of 16 pts. and purchase the one time use allowable 24 points to equal my 40 required for our stay. I'd like to do this because we will be heading back again in May 2011 and banking will help for that stay along with purchasing the 24 allowable one time use points again in 2011.My understanding is yes you can do this and I mentioned that exact scenario above as one of the ways it could be used. Still, we're still learning the process which is new and likely to change, you should contact DVC to ask about this. If it's allowed, you'll likely be able to do both on one call and thus avoid getting different answers that affect your situation.