EPCOT makeover

[TigH]

Sorry if this has been posted before.

From a dining article by Scott Joseph on the OrlandoSentinel.com site:

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Changes for Epcot?

It's all very hush-hush and so far unconfirmed, but the Hound hears that Disney officials are set to announce a $300 million makeover for Epcot. The Hound could use a makeover too, but that would barely cover the liposuction. Anyway, another rumor having to do with the redo is that a separate entrance might be created for World Showcase that would allow people (read: locals) to frequent the fine restaurants that line the lagoon without having to pay the full admission price. Sound like a good idea? The Imagineers who first plotted the futuristic theme park thought so -- it was part of the original design.

**********************************

I wonder why they'd need a separate entrance on the WS side? If this is true, then locals who want to enter for dining only would have to purchase a separate ticket, so why couldn't they use the same entrance as everyone else at the International Gateway?

$300 million doesn't seem like enough for a makeover of the entire park.

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by TigH
Sorry if this has been posted before.

From a dining article by Scott Joseph on the OrlandoSentinel.com site:

*********************************

Changes for Epcot?

It's all very hush-hush and so far unconfirmed, but the Hound hears that Disney officials are set to announce a $300 million makeover for Epcot. The Hound could use a makeover too, but that would barely cover the liposuction.


The Hound needs liposuction?!! Excuse me!!! I take issue with that comment (LOL).

Interesting rumor TigH. A west side entrace makes sense. Its a long walk from the Boardwalk to the international gateway if you're just stopping in for dinner, place there are parking issues there.

[Obi-Wan Pinobi]

I'm trying to figure out where such an entrance could be? Here's a link (http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=12&T=1&X=557&Y=3922&Z=17&W=1) to a satellite image of WDW (you may have to scroll down to find Epcot).

Epcot is pretty well locked in. There doesn't appear to be a lot of room on the west side near the International Gateway, and there is what looks like CM parking on the east side. There looks like some wooded areas just south of/behind the American Adventure pavillion. Maybe they're thinking of putting a small parking area there with another entrance, or maybe they're planning on busing people around to another entrance from the main parking area or the TTC.

[King Triton]

Please build a new Horizons II ride!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

King Triton

[DVC-Landbaron]

The article also does not appear to address how, even with a new entrance, guests would be limited to visiting WS restaurants. Hmmm. My thought as well, Mr. Scoop!!

And there was peace in the valley as the LandBaron and thedscoop agreed on an issue!! ;)

[Dznefreek]

The article also does not appear to address how, even with a new entrance, guests would be limited to visiting WS restaurants. I believe the idea is to limit them only to WS restaurants and attractions.

[DVC-Landbaron]

And how would that be done once they're inside the gate?

[Dznefreek]

Installation of a gate/turnstiles with card/ticket scaners between WS and FW.

[DVC-Landbaron]

Ahhhh! Yes! I see! And that would surely SUCK!!!!

[All Aboard]

Installation of a gate/turnstiles with card/ticket scaners between WS and FW. That would require that the walkway in front of Imagination be closed. We'd no longer be permitted to walk through the Odessey and I assume a full gate would have to be built across the central walkway between FW and WS. Yep, Baron, that would "suck."

[meowthew2]

Actually, I can't figure out why they didn't start doing this years ago. It'd be a brilliant business move, even if it does reek of a last-ditch effort to save the skins of current execs.

[Miss Park Avenue]

Finally the kind of rumor I like! Poor FW needs some help! Maybe EPCOT will stay open 365 days a year after all.

As for a new gate between the two? Hmmmmm bummer. What other ideas are there for people who just want to eat there?

[Another Voice]

Again, the original design for EPCOT Center way back in 1982, this is hardly a new or original idea.

Under the scenarios they're talking about, Future World would close at 5pm or 6pm (basically mirroring the closing of Animal Kingdom).

There's another rumor that even wilder. Epcot would be completely broken apart. "Epcot" would be the current Future World - World Showcase would become a ticketed gate along the lines of a super-sized Pleasure Island.

Like I said, you're not going to like a lot of what they're thinking about...

[Miss Park Avenue]

Originally posted by Another Voice
Again, the original design for EPCOT Center way back in 1982, this is hardly a new or original idea.

Under the scenarios they're talking about, Future World would close at 5pm or 6pm (basically mirroring the closing of Animal Kingdom).

There's another rumor that even wilder. Epcot would be completely broken apart. "Epcot" would be the current Future World - World Showcase would become a ticketed gate along the lines of a super-sized Pleasure Island.

Like I said, you're not going to like a lot of what they're thinking about...


I kinda thought that would only be a matter of time :(

[All Aboard]

So now a new thread needs to be spawned based on AV's info. How would the public react to FW as a seperate gate? That is, if WS was not included in the admission (which is hard to fathom.) I guess it would put less pressure on AK in the half-day park argument.

It sounds a little scary, especially if access to WS was not part of the admission price. AV, could you fill us in a little more? Under the scenario you put forth, would FW be an enclosed gate?

[space42]

wooah, I wonder if my FL residents seasonal pass would cover a seperate gate on WS (it doesn't cover PI)

I for one would not pay extra to "shop and eat".. and what about illuminations????? is that going to be covered in my Future World ticket?

[manning]

It could happen. After all, they did managed to screw up a lot of things.

[Miss Park Avenue]

so lemme get this straight, according to AV, Future World closes around 5 or 6. Then (according to dscoop) locals get an after 4 pass for dinner and WS. And vacationers with hoppers and the like will have had the morning for FW and World Showcase. Anyone with an after 4 type pass would have to run their butts off if they think they are going to steal any attractions from Future World so most probably wouldn't try it.

Sounds like a workable plan I guess.

[Miss Park Avenue]

OK, I'm not from Florida maybe it would help if I knew exactly what Disney Dining Experience was. But here is how I picture what you are saying.

11:00am: Epcot opens to park hoppers and one day passholders

4:00pm: Locals with the Disney Dining Experience or the after 4 pass can enter through new entrance at WS for dinner. There is no need for a gate between FW and WS because they couldn't really do much at Future World because at..........

5:00 or 6:00pm: Future World closes, park hopping vacationers who have been there or hopped from other parks move to the World Showcase area.

9:00pm or later: Epcot closes.


This is what I see happening.

[Another Voice]

This is all very much of in “blue sky” talk at the moment. There’s no need to start parsing hours to figure out if you can still hit ‘Imagination’ before dinner. If any of the schemes go through, Disney will be sure to close all those loopholes anyway.

Under the current way of thinking, Future World post-Mission:Space will be a “full day’s value” akin to Animal Kingdom and California Adventure (it would have more attractions than DCA even). World Showcase, I guess, would be a reduced Pleasure Island/Water Park ticket (and included in park-hoppers and length of stay tickets). I don’t think anyone knows at this point what hours would be or how/if guests could go from one to the other.

Right now the biggest drawback to the World Showcase concept is the lack of a parking lot for the World Gateway entrance. The current gate complex was built with the “nighttime dinner” concept in mind (they just never finished to lot); the problem is getting people there. Many people are trying to come up with “creative” ways of increasing revenue so this probably won’t be the last wild idea you hear about in the coming months.

As Mr. Scoop said, WDW sees this thing far differently than Burbank does. The real issue at the moment is whether the people in Orlando still have the fight in them to go up against Corporate. I hope they do, but I’m not confident about the outcome.

[Tik Tok]

OMG -- that's the most horrible rumor I have ever heard!! That would be one of the worst things that could happen at WDW. :mad:

So, does anyone know -- is attendance at Epcot really so desperate that they would really be considering breaking it in two??? And if it really is that bad, then why aren't they adding things like crazy to the park (you know, like real rides instead of big Mickey hands and silly parades) to entice people to come back instead of taking things away??? One new attraction in Future World really isn't going to make all the rest of the problems with that part of the park go away -- and it certainly isn't going to do anything to help World Showcase, who's last new ride was the Maelstrom.

[SPAGo 98]

i've heard at some park they have a way for you to just go in and dine. it works like this:

at the gate you buy the special pass, they take a credit card imprint. you have a set amount of time to get back to the gate (3 hours or so). if you're not back by then, your CC is charged full admission price.

simple, easy, effective.

[Lewisc]

Not really sure what they'd be accomplishing. The passes we normally use (PH and LOS) still cover both parks. If they plan on closing FW at 5 or 6 you could just change the after 4 pass for FL residents to 5 or 6 (or just assume the last hour of the park TT and Space will only be open to people already in line or FP holders). I don't even see room for a garage. I'd say they should bus or even use a parking lot tram to get people to the main parking lot.

[PKS44]

I have posted this before and again say "Look to Tokyo-where they have success running theme parks in bad economies..." They apparently use a multi level admission with colored wristbands-full use of the park/rides, limited use of the park/rides, and NO rides, just eat and shop level of admission."

This could work especially well for the struggling Epcot.

Paul

[BRERALEX]

well ....................that just sucks

[BRERALEX]

nah you know what ......they should take the magic kingdom and at the "hub" put turnstiles at every arm reachin to the "lands" and charge seperate admisssion, and for mickey's toontown fair seperate admission. and well have to put turnstiles by the train to not hop for free to any part of the magic kingdom

this will be good because my gf will be happy because ill totally ^&*%^%$ hate it and i will finally be forced to go to Jamaica.

nah this thread is all a nightmare im still sleepin waiting to wake up to the thread that beats the parks game thread- "head of wdw parks found nailed into its a small world permanently.

[King Triton]

Here's the solution:

Build a Horizons II ride and a World of Motion II ride.:p

That will bring back a lot of excitement and boost attendance.

King Triton

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Miss Park Avenue]

Originally posted by BRERALEX
this thread is all a nightmare im still sleepin waiting to wake up to the thread that beats the parks game thread- "head of wdw parks found nailed into its a small world permanently.


How did a thread about a 300 million dollar makeover to EPCOT get so graphic? I'm going to see this rumor as a positive one and hope for the best.

BTW, I liked my scenerio the best. So there! :smooth:

[DVC-Landbaron]

BTW, I liked my scenario the best. So there! Miss Park Avenue, is this part of your scenario?5:00 or 6:00pm: Future World closes, park hopping vacationers who have been there or hopped from other parks move to the World Showcase area.If it is...

Hmmm... From all your posts so far I had very high hopes for you. We really seemed to be on the same page. Please tell me that this in not OK with you!!!!

[Testtrack321]

The best scenario would be to have the Epcot All-In-One Pass, the Epcot Future Pass (Future World Only), and the Epcot Showcase Pass (WS only).

But it would do something incredilby stupid. It would make FW and WS both "diversions", as DVC said about AK.

It would especially stupid if they charged us for both parks full admission. $50 for both parks would offically kill Disney.

But the best idea was brought up on another board, charge full admission at the WS enterence with a 2 hour time frame of redemption. You eat, get you ticket stamped, shop, and then show your ticket and get a refund.

It would prevent more turnstyles and confusion.

[Miss Park Avenue]

I am NOT ok with any reduced hours. But when I go in May FW closes at 7:00 as it is. I was thinking in terms of not having to seperate WS and FW and letting in locals to eat without having to charge them full admissison. If cuts are to be made I can deal with this scenario better than say EPCOT being closed for one or two days a week or dividing the two up or putting in turnsyles between them. I like the wristband idea too though! Irritating to the wrist, but that's a minigripe.

I guess I can deal with FW closing earlier because you can still take in the sights or EPCOT at night. In May, Future World is closed and everyone meanders over to World Showcase to stake out their spot for Illuminations. The dancing fountains are still on, the sidewalks still have those little lights on that capture everyone's attention, everything is lit up and music is playing all around but if you try to go into the pavillions, there is security to direct you elsewhere. You still have that beautiful nightime atmosphere that is EPCOT.

It isn't the same as in the Magic Kingdom where right in the late afternoon the entire park shuts down (except for the shops I think) and YOU MUST LEAVE AT THAT TIME. The show's over folks, go home.

We both seem to hate the same thing but for different reasons. I don't talk about this much because I don't visit in the summer. If I had to deal with summer crowds I probably would hate the park closing at 10:00 instead of midnight. (I KNOW I would have hated it when I was a teen visiting there in the 80's). But I have two little ones that would never make it to midnight, we'd be fortunate to make it to 10:00 (but less hours mean no chance for naps I know....it's a much different debate and I'm not there in the summer to form an opinion). But at least my kids will get to see Tinkerbell, the lights, etc. They are wild for fireworks. My gripes come from totally missing out on the nightime magic that happens at the Magic Kingdom.

I'm sorry, we were talking about EPCOT.........

[OnWithTheShow]

Haha you guys (and gals) are too funny!

[Tik Tok]

Originally posted by Miss Park Avenue
If cuts are to be made I can deal with this scenario better than say EPCOT being closed for one or two days a week or dividing the two up or putting in turnsyles between them.

If I had to choose between closing Epcot a day or two a week, or dividing the park in half, I would choose the closings. Tearing Epcot in two would be about the worst thing they could ever do to that place. Isn't it bad enough they've already torn Future World to pieces!!! :confused:

[MikePezz]

I can't even believe that this is being discussed (even casually) by the top management. Of course, I also couldn't believe that they considered ending early entry.

"The Buck Stops Here." - Harry S. Truman

"The Magic Stops Here...to Save a Buck." - Eisner & Co.

[Miss Park Avenue]

I'm going to take a $300 million makeover to mean a good thing and am not going to worry about it. I fretted more over closing EPCOT than this. You don't put that kind of money into a park to close it a few days a week.

I'm reading this rumor and thinking happy thoughts! Horizon II? One of those "Soaring" Rides I hear so much about? Another E-ride? Improved transportaion around the place? It is HUGE!! Just thinking about it gets me excited for the 2004 trip when we will try out the BCVs and get Length of Stay passes for the first time.

[BRERALEX]

300 makeover if it includes breaking up epcot in two to me would suck and is a nightmare Miss plus the way the parks are run latley anything is possible

OnWithTheShow makes me feel better and if thedscoop tells me to chill im chillin

[d-r]

y'all are wiggin.

Florida residents can buy an after 4 Epcot pass. The idea is that you can use it to go into Epcot and have a nice meal. Florida residents now can also by a disney dining experience, basically you pay around 50 bucks and you get 20% off meals. So couple the two together, an epcot after 4 dining experience for florida residents. Put a convenient entrance into world showcase so locals can go in there and eat and drink in the evening. For resort guests, that would be a pretty transparent thing - they wouldn't need to "separate" future world and world showcase.

Residents who now by a seasonal pass that is blocked out for the summer, spring break and Christmas could by the after 4 pass for a reasonable cost and use it during the summer to go into epcot to have a nice meal. I don't think there would be any reason to worry about them "leeching" on future world for the two or three hours it would be open - so what.

DR

[MikePezz]

We have gotten way off track. What upgrades will we see in Epcot after this makeover is completed? Does anyone know or is this a case of the blind leading the blind?

[raidermatt]

FW does close at 7:00, however some of the major attractions remain open until 9:00 (unless that has recently changed.)

Break Epcot into two parks? This is an even worse idea than the closing for a few days per week. I don't doubt that its been discussed, but wouldn't put my money on it happening.

However, $300 million for a makeover in a park where they've been so reluctant to spend their own money does seem strange.

[OnWithTheShow]

Test Track, Spaceship Earth, Honey I Shrunk the Audience. Journey Into Imagination, and Innoventions (effectively half of Future World) remains open until 9PM. I don't know about everyone else but I never really venture into Future World after dark and having the entire area open until 9 would not benefit me at all.

[WEDWAY100]

Originally posted by Another Voice
There's another rumor that even wilder. Epcot would be completely broken apart. "Epcot" would be the current Future World - World Showcase would become a ticketed gate along the lines of a super-sized Pleasure Island.



I've got it!! They can build the Berlin Wall and split Germany down the middle. On one side, it can be very detailed and fun. The other side must be stark and bleak. Then they can put CMs with machine guns on either side. People who just came to dine in WS must enter through Checkpoint Charley from a parking lot behind Germany. If you ride anything in FW, you have to declare it and pay a full day's admission. If you lie, they will shoot you. And they have ways of making you talk....:crazy:

[Lewisc]

We're all missing the obvious. If Disney wants a WS only/after 4:00 pass all they have to do is make the FW attractions FP only after a certain time (issue standby FP if necessary). The computer already verfies that a valid ticket media is inserted. Is it really a problem if a WS person sneaks into the lesser attractions?

[Miss Park Avenue]

OK, back to the scenerio I envision happening:

11:00am: Epcot opens to park hoppers and one day passholders

4:00pm: Locals with the Disney Dining Experience or the after 4 pass can enter through new entrance at WS for dinner. There is no need for a gate between FW and WS because they couldn't really do much at Future World because at..........

5:00 or 6:00pm: Future World closes, park hopping vacationers who have been there or hopped from other parks move to the World Showcase area.

EXCEPT the e-rides (though I KNOW that I tried to ride Imagination ride after seven and was turned away) which park-hoppers can get a fastpass ride. (thank you Lewisc, good point)

9:00pm or later: Illuminations, Epcot closes.


So there: Locals can get an after 4 pass and eat without the need to change any existing hours at FW or put turnstyles in the middle of the park or worse, splitting it in two. And no one needs to wear wristbands. Unless you go with WEDWAY100's idea where it would go a little further up your arm
:earseek: I don't know, I can live with this. I don't have a problem with this schedule. If you can find a way to get locals in to eat that could only bring more cash to EPCOT and this way there is little for vacationers to give up.

[Testtrack321]

11 AM!?!?! DCA opens at 10! Make it 9 am instead.

[Miss Park Avenue]

oops! I was thinking WS hours (when I visit). 9:00am opening for EPCOT it is!