Disney doesn't do more for the annual pass holders for a reason.

[hookedonears]

I can't understand why Disney doesn't have a financing program for annual pass holders. That doesn't make since unless they're afraid that the holder will buy the pass paying only the minimum down and then make 30 trips before the next payment is due and then not pay the remaining balance. Most Corporations try to avoid legal hassles if all possible and maybe they think a financing program opens the door for same.

It seems to me that the reason why Disney doesn't do more for Annual Pass holders is because the vast majority, or at least a very, large percentage of annual pass holders are locals (live 200 miles from Orlando or less). There are only a small percentage of locals who frequently stay in the Disney hotels when they visit the parks. A large percentage of Locals are day trippers. The people who really make Disney money are the people who put heads on the Disney beds. Those people, not only stay at the hotels, but for the most part eat all of their meals at Disney. Those are the people who spend $2000,3,4,5 and even $6000 on their Disney vacations and a large percentage of those only come once a year.

[DisneyKevin]

I can't understand why Disney doesn't have a financing program for annual pass holders. That doesn't make since unless they're afraid that the holder will buy the pass paying only the minimum down and then make 30 trips before the next payment is due and then not pay the remaining balance. Most Corporations try to avoid legal hassles if all possible and maybe they think a financing program opens the door for same.

It seems to me that the reason why Disney doesn't do more for Annual Pass holders is because the vast majority, or at least a very, large percentage of annual pass holders are locals (live 200 miles from Orlando or less). There are only a small percentage of locals who frequently stay in the Disney hotels when they visit the parks. A large percentage of Locals are day trippers. The people who really make Disney money are the people who put heads on the Disney beds. Those people, not only stay at the hotels, but for the most part eat all of their meals at Disney. Those are the people who spend $2000,3,4,5 and even $6000 on their Disney vacations and a large percentage of those only come once a year.

This is all conjecture as Disney isnt good about sharing this information.

I think you would be surprised at the number of non-locals holding APs.

We hear the same thing all the time.....I'm fitting in 1,2 or more trips this year in order to take advantage of my AP.

Disney offers AP rates when they need to fill hotels.

Disney offered AP holders 15 months for the cost of 12.

[Bornteach]

Among my family we have 7 APs and we live in Massachusetts.

[WaltD4Me]

Are you guessing about who Annual Passholders are? I would think alot of DVC owners probably get Annual passes and I would also think there are alot of people who live farther than 200 miles, but who are still within comfortable driving distance, say a 5-7 hour drive would be pass holders. I certainly would want an annual pass if I could drive to Disney in under 8 hours. Pete has said a few times that Orlando locals aren't as interested in Disney World as Anaheim locals are in Disneyland. I know a few people in Orlando who have never been to Disney. :faint:

I understand Disney's desire to put heads on beds, but I also think not giving AP holders a little bit of a break because it won't achieve heads in beds is wrong. There are alot of AP holders on the boards that aren't locals. And is seems from reading the boards that alot are wondering if they can afford their AP renewal, especially all in one shot. Maybe Disney will reconsider.

[Dodie]

You're not considering the difference between the Florida resident annual pass and other annual passes. As DVC members (and I know we're not alone), we've had APs in the past and have made as many as three trips down in a year's time. We live 800 miles away.

[exwdwcm]

yep, i'll be a first time AP holder and am not local! now that we bought DVC, it only makes sense. I would guess a lot of DVC have APs.

[GraceLuvsWDW]

I am a bit peeved about the lack of "special" things for passholders too. I spend lots of $$$ at Disney each year. And you know who got bumped from Pop to the DVC resorts when they overbooked? Those non AP rate people who booked the Gift Card promo. Now, it seems to me, they'd bump the AP rate people as they're the ones that are proven Disneyholics and would be more likely to buy DVC if romanced into doing so (not to mention they're loyal passholders). Also, as far as the new AP that is for both parks, I've often wanted a bi-coastal pass but now I'm finding out to renew to an upgraded bi-coastal AP I'd lose my 15 months AND the renewal discount. What are they thinking?

You know what I think? They suppose that AP people are already regular spenders at WDW and their focus is to romance new Disneyholics. Their focus is the segment of the population who might go somewhere else.

I'm a fan, but as the years pass and the bad "tastes" continue to accumulate, I might rethink my approach. I was awfully peeved when I went to DLR and did not get one discount for having an AP for WDW. AAA members got a discount but not WDW PASSHOLDERS? Are they nuts?

OK rant over.

[hookedonears]

I have no idea what the numbers are, but I know Disney professes to have 50,000,000 visitors at WDW each year. I don't know how many DVC members there are, but I could probably guess that it would be a pretty small percentage of the 50MM. There are a large number of people out of the "Local" area, who come multi times per year, but again I would suspect that that number would be a much smaller percentage then the people in the "Local" area.

[k5jmh]

This is all conjecture as Disney isnt good about sharing this information.

I think you would be surprised at the number of non-locals holding APs.

We hear the same thing all the time.....I'm fitting in 1,2 or more trips this year in order to take advantage of my AP.

Disney offers AP rates when they need to fill hotels.

Disney offered AP holders 15 months for the cost of 12.

We are getting 2 AP's and a TiW card since we will be making at least 3 trips (Loving DU) in the next year.

[georgemoe]

I find AP discussion most interesting. :3dglasses

[WebmasterJohn]

I'm not sure that the current number of AP holders is as significant as the POTENTIAL number of APs that could be sold if there a payment plan.

We all have said it at one time or another - Disney is a business - what better way to sell more of your product then to make it more accessible to more people. If you can't (or are unwilling to) lower the price then spread out the payments.

The more APs you sell - the more money you make - and the more potential guests you have who will visit your parks who feel they need to 'use' their passes.

Extrapolate this out to how much money may be spent on food, souveniers, other passes for family members, etc.

Seems simple to me.......

[mikelan6]

In this economy, Disney should be doing everything it needs to do to get more business.

[doconeill]

Playing a little devil's advocate (or is that mouse's advocate?)...I am an AP holder from MA - well, was. I'm an "AP holder of opportunity" as it fits in our plans, and would always welcome more perks...

Does the AP not already represent a significant discount in itself for those who would spend more than 10-14 days at WDW? Should Disney offer things like room discounts to entice those from whom they would not gain the significant income from tickets? Would it not make more sense to target room discounts towards those that would need to purchase tickets?

Why would Disney choose to throw discounts at the people who already have discounts? I know Pete loves to rant about Disney and the "loyal fans", but aren't those fans already rewarded with the AP?

Again, it is not my stance, but something that popped in my head when I read this thread. Just food for discussion. Hopefully we won't need to bring cake into it... :) I also understand some business reasons for discounts to those who have APs, etc. - more frequent visits gets at least some level of money per visit (food, souvies, etc.)

I'd personally love to see something like 50% off rooms during off peak to AP/DVC members, etc. I'd be more likely to top off a DVC stay with a CRO stay at a lower price point at any resort, and it would bring me closer to my goal of staying at every resort :) Even if I couldn't choose the resort far in advance...a little resort roulette, say...they'd still get more of my money...

[WaltD4Me]

I have no idea what the numbers are, but I know Disney professes to have 50,000,000 visitors at WDW each year. I don't know how many DVC members there are, but I could probably guess that it would be a pretty small percentage of the 50MM. There are a large number of people out of the "Local" area, who come multi times per year, but again I would suspect that that number would be a much smaller percentage then the people in the "Local" area.

No way of knowing any of the above. Disney doesn't release those kinds of numbers, but I would guess the opposite of your statement. I like to talk to people, granted not 50 million, but I often strike up conversations with people in the parks. We usually ask each other "Where are you from?" and it has always struck me that no one has ever told me they were from Orlando and a very few from Florida.

[Becx N Gav]

I think quite a few Europeans would be AP holders, maybe not consecutive years but if come across the Atlantic you tend to stay at least two weeks (I know some people stay 3 or 4 in one go) and this is a good option - although Disney UK offer 14 and 21 days tickets. You get a few perks with the AP and if you plan on taking two vacations within 12 months an AP makes sense. I am guessing the majority of AP holders are non-locals so really they need to appeal to every 'group' (not that they seem to be encouraging much at th moment)

I am a bit peeved about the lack of "special" things for passholders too. I spend lots of $$$ at Disney each year. And you know who got bumped from Pop to the DVC resorts when they overbooked? Those non AP rate people who booked the Gift Card promo. Now, it seems to me, they'd bump the AP rate people as they're the ones that are proven Disneyholics and would be more likely to buy DVC if romanced into doing so (not to mention they're loyal passholders). Also, as far as the new AP that is for both parks, I've often wanted a bi-coastal pass but now I'm finding out to renew to an upgraded bi-coastal AP I'd lose my 15 months AND the renewal discount. What are they thinking?

You know what I think? They suppose that AP people are already regular spenders at WDW and their focus is to romance new Disneyholics. Their focus is the segment of the population who might go somewhere else.

I'm a fan, but as the years pass and the bad "tastes" continue to accumulate, I might rethink my approach. I was awfully peeved when I went to DLR and did not get one discount for having an AP for WDW. AAA members got a discount but not WDW PASSHOLDERS? Are they nuts?

OK rant over.

I do agree in thinkinig they want to encourage new fans but at this rate they will lose the older ones :sad2:
It annoyed me that when we first went to WDW in 2005 there were no offers (or at least none I saw as I hadn't found the Dis :sad1:) up to when we bought DVC, then because of the economy there are discounts all over the place :lmao: I know I can't complain that we're members - it's great - but we always seem to 'miss out' on stuff like this :rolleyes:

[hookedonears]

I think it would be a good guess that many of the people on this board are Disney lovers and a large % of same stay at Disney multi times per year and are both locals and not locals.

[757hokie]

I'm not sure that the current number of AP holders is as significant as the POTENTIAL number of APs that could be sold if there a payment plan.

We all have said it at one time or another - Disney is a business - what better way to sell more of your product then to make it more accessible to more people. If you can't (or are unwilling to) lower the price then spread out the payments.

The more APs you sell - the more money you make - and the more potential guests you have who will visit your parks who feel they need to 'use' their passes.

Extrapolate this out to how much money may be spent on food, souveniers, other passes for family members, etc.

Seems simple to me.......

See, it's true...the man is a GENIUS!!!

Seriously, DVC lets me pay my annual dues across 12 equal monthly payments with no interest...which, by the way, add up to MUCH more than the cost of my AP!

I guarantee an AP monthly payment plan would attract A LOT more AP holders and retain many current AP holders who are considering letting theirs lapse. The only way it wouldn't make business sense for Disney to offer the monthly payment option would be if it required them to make a significant infrastructure investment to set it up, and I don't think that's the case.

Such a no-brainer...what are they thinkin'??? :confused3

[DisneyKevin]

I think it would be a good guess that many of the people on this board are Disney lovers and a large % of same stay at Disney multi times per year and are both locals and not locals.

And some are right handed and some arent.:thumbsup2

[georgemoe]

Playing a little devil's advocate (or is that mouse's advocate?)...I am an AP holder from MA - well, was. I'm an "AP holder of opportunity" as it fits in our plans, and would always welcome more perks...

Does the AP not already represent a significant discount in itself for those who would spend more than 10-14 days at WDW? Should Disney offer things like room discounts to entice those from whom they would not gain the significant income from tickets? Would it not make more sense to target room discounts towards those that would need to purchase tickets?

Why would Disney choose to throw discounts at the people who already have discounts? I know Pete loves to rant about Disney and the "loyal fans", but aren't those fans already rewarded with the AP?

Again, it is not my stance, but something that popped in my head when I read this thread. Just food for discussion. Hopefully we won't need to bring cake into it... :) I also understand some business reasons for discounts to those who have APs, etc. - more frequent visits gets at least some level of money per visit (food, souvies, etc.)

I'd personally love to see something like 50% off rooms during off peak to AP/DVC members, etc. I'd be more likely to top off a DVC stay with a CRO stay at a lower price point at any resort, and it would bring me closer to my goal of staying at every resort :) Even if I couldn't choose the resort far in advance...a little resort roulette, say...they'd still get more of my money...

Brian I think you make a valid point. Disney has to tow the line somewhere with discounts. Where they can discount less, or not in some cases, is frequent return visitors. The only way this changes is the long time frequent visitor just stops going. That is the only way to convey the message. What do they call that? Vote with your wallet? :goodvibes

So since we are talking about payment plans. If you think an AP payment plan is a good idea, what about a room payment plan? You purchase so many nights in a package and pay off a little at a time.

[Launchpad11B]

Brian I think you make a valid point. Disney has to tow the line somewhere with discounts. Where they can discount less, or not in some cases, is frequent return visitors. The only way this changes is the long time frequent visitor just stops going. That is the only way to convey the message. What do they call that? Vote with your wallet? :goodvibes

So since we are talking about payment plans. If you think an AP payment plan is a good idea, what about a room payment plan? You purchase so many nights in a package and pay off a little at a time.

Sounds like DVC in a way.

[k5jmh]

Brian I think you make a valid point. Disney has to tow the line somewhere with discounts. Where they can discount less, or not in some cases, is frequent return visitors. The only way this changes is the long time frequent visitor just stops going. That is the only way to convey the message. What do they call that? Vote with your wallet? :goodvibes

So since we are talking about payment plans. If you think an AP payment plan is a good idea, what about a room payment plan? You purchase so many nights in a package and pay off a little at a time.

Disney corp. calls this........drum roll..................
http://m1.www.chasecreditcards.com/images/cards/disney-lg-new3.jpg This is how they want you to finance your AP, your rooms, and your whole vacation @ 9%.

"He once purchased a car with a whisker. Why, you may ask? Because, he is, the most interesting man, in the world."

[Mindy5767]

See, it's true...the man is a GENIUS!!!

Seriously, DVC lets me pay my annual dues across 12 equal monthly payments with no interest...which, by the way, add up to MUCH more than the cost of my AP!




Really? I had no idea you could pay your annual dues in monthly payments without interest. I wonder if DH knows this.:confused3 We just put the whole thing on our Chase Disney Visa (for the points).

I am a DVC member and currently hold annual passes. The current promotion to renew my annual pass and get 15 months is a serious incentive this time around. I bought an AP (DVC price) in November 2007. I used it for that week long trip, and then returned for Flower & Garden in April 08 and MNSSHP & F&W in Oct 08. 3 trips. Averaged out to about $16.00 per person/day. However, Disney made money on our in-park and in-resort spending. All the meal, the souvenirs, the dinner shows etc. We did not renew out AP's when they came up for renewal in Nov 08. If we had that pass would have been good from Nov08-Nov09. During that time period we had 1 visit for a week in July. However, what we did was, when we returned IN July, we bought another AP set for me, DH and DD7. DD21 and DS17 wanted WPFM... I wasn't springing for THAT AP. Too pricey. So they got 8 day park hopping WPFM. Now we are returning next week with me, DH, DD7 and DS18. The three of us will use last July's AP but DS18 will require a new 6 or 7 day regular park hopper. If we choose to renew our AP's because they expire in July, we will get 15 months instead of 12 and that is a good enough incentive to try to fit in more trips. As far as I know, the pass would be the DVC renewal price. So that is additional savings.

I think there would be a significant risk of default after AP holders got their vacations in that they'd wanted but before they had paid off their passes. People can use their credit cards to stretch out payments. Use their home equity lines etc (I know... who has equity anymore?). I guess Disney doesn't think that this is an acceptable risk for them. As a stockholder, I'm good with that. Also, think about this, in order for Disney to offer such a plan, they'd have to run it through the financing arm of the business that they run their DVC membership financing through. The parks division probably doesn't have the infastructure businesswise. Disney Development does.

Besides, AP are often offered room only discounts. We're offered discounts on shopping and dining. It is interesting because you really have to keep track of your discounts. For instance, DVC offer discounts, AP offers discounts AND AAA offers discounts. However, they're different. One time DVC might be better, another time the AP might be. And Earl of Sandwich only offers AAA discount.

I'm a DVC AP holder who lives 889 miles from the mouse.

and while we contemplate this all.. I'm doing the single digit dance :dance3:

[ADP]

Disney corp. calls this........drum roll..................
http://m1.www.chasecreditcards.com/images/cards/disney-lg-new3.jpg This is how they want you to finance your AP, your rooms, and your whole vacation @ 9%.

"He once purchased a car with a whisker. Why, you may ask? Because, he is, the most interesting man, in the world."
Good point. Do the other theme park payment plans charge interest? I didn't think they did, but not sure since I've never done it.

[SamSam]

We're from Kansas and have been buying Annual Passes since the early 1990's. Although, I do think that WDW would sell more annual passes if they had a payment plan.
When you're buying AP's for 2 adults and several kids it can add up to quite a chunk.

[Mindy5767]

Good point. Do they other theme park payment plans charge interest? I didn't think they did, but not sure since I've never done it.

What theme park payment plan?

If you buy a vacation package from AAA or probably any other travel agent, you can pay for your vacation in several payment with the balance due some number of weeks before the vacation. I wonder if the cruiseline does this.:confused3

[kehlyrsmom]

My husband and I are strongly considering the annual pass since we are making two trips this year one in May for 6 days just the two of us and back again in Sept for 9 days with our children for our Bounce Back offer. I even suggested to him that if we did get it that maybe we would try and take the kids next spring or at xmas for our daughters b-day.

But the one thing holding me back is the fact that I would not be able to use it with our Bounce Back offer promotion. I have called down a couple of times and have gotten different answers. I think we would have to purchase at least a one day ticket for us, not sure how it would work with the kids since we were not planning on getting the annual pass for them.

Anyway I guess my point is if they would allow a little more flexibility in the use of them there may be more of us purchasing them. I live in central IL, 18 hours away from the mouse and I would be willing to purchase the AP actually I would prefer to purchase it this year and would try to convience my husband to go on a third short trip this year if it made economical sense for us to do so. Since we would have to purchase additional single day tickets for both of us for our trip this fall, I think in the end it would cost us more then our current tickets.

[mrzrich]

By your definition (less than 200 miles) you would consider me a local. I live 90 or so minutes from WDW and I almost always stay onsite. DH hates waking up early, driving to WDW and then driving home tired. Maybe, I can get him to do this ONCE a year. Usually, we stay onsite 5 or more times a year for 3 or more nights at a time.

[WaltD4Me]

I've been thinking about this and can't really see much of a downside for Disney, so I'm really wondering if maybe they are really concerned about those who would use the pass, only make payments for six months or less, then close the credit card. I could really see that happening more than we here might think it would. I mean, what if someone used one of those pre-paid Visas you can get at Walgreens, made one payment, got their passes, went to Disney, even once just for a week or 10 days and then threw the "no more money on it" pre-paid card away. If the monthly payment is say $75-$100, that would be way less than a 7-10 day Park Hopper. :confused3

[doconeill]

My husband and I are strongly considering the annual pass since we are making two trips this year one in May for 6 days just the two of us and back again in Sept for 9 days with our children for our Bounce Back offer. I even suggested to him that if we did get it that maybe we would try and take the kids next spring or at xmas for our daughters b-day.

But the one thing holding me back is the fact that I would not be able to use it with our Bounce Back offer promotion. I have called down a couple of times and have gotten different answers. I think we would have to purchase at least a one day ticket for us, not sure how it would work with the kids since we were not planning on getting the annual pass for them.


If you know you'll make a trip in the future where you won't need a package, keep the 1-day tickets for future use. They won't expire and you can upgrade them when you eventually use them.

If you are only talking about APs for you and DH, I would do this:

1) Get the best deal you can on whatever tickets you can get ahead of time (mousesavers, AAA, etc.) for you and DH, so long as they cost less than the AP. When you arrive, use them once*, then upgrade them to APs. This will save you a few dollars.

2) On your bounce-back trip, get 1-day tickets for everyone. save the 1-days for you and DH for a future trip, and upgrade the kids 1-days to whatever length you need after you arrive. Use the 1-days first before upgrading if the price goes up between now and then*.

3) Do whatever other trips you can do within your APs - note that if you can plan enough ahead and it makes sense, in step 2 upgrade your children's 1-days to APs.

4) On a future non-AP trip, use the 1-days you saved and upgrade them.

* The reason you do this is that regardless of what the purchase price was of a ticket, if a ticket is used the will (or at least are supposed to) bridge the price of the ticket to the current gate price.

[GraceLuvsWDW]

They do the payment plan at DLR, seems like they could make it work for WDW.

There's bound to be a different reason.

[ADP]

What theme park payment plan?

If you buy a vacation package from AAA or probably any other travel agent, you can pay for your vacation in several payment with the balance due some number of weeks before the vacation. I wonder if the cruiseline does this.:confused3
I meant an AP payment plan. The other parks offer AP payment plays except Disney.

[cslittle999]

So since we are talking about payment plans. If you think an AP payment plan is a good idea, what about a room payment plan? You purchase so many nights in a package and pay off a little at a time.
It depends on what you mean. Today you can book a package and make regular payments with the condition that it is paid in full 45 days prior to arrival. From reading on the boards many people do this. Disney has all of your money prior to you making use of the service. If you don't pay then they have the option to deny you service.

If you mean staying and then making payments later I don't think it would work. What happens if you stop making payments? You've already received the service. Disney's only option would be to send it to collections and deny you access to Disney hotels until you paid. Maybe not even that.

The AP payment plan would work because Disney can simply disable the pass if you stop paying.

[hookedonears]

And some are right handed and some arent.:thumbsup2

In other words Kevin, from a statistical point of view, taking a sample of opinions from this board would not achieve a desirable un-biased outcome.

[HunnyBunny]

We usually ask each other "Where are you from?" and it has always struck me that no one has ever told me they were from Orlando and a very few from Florida.

You must not be talking to me! I'm a local and probably in the minority of how often I visit. Since we got our annual passes on Feb 19th, I've been 9 times, usually twice in a weekend. A payment plan would have been great for us.

I think a lot more locals would go on a payment plan as most of them work for minimum wage in the areas hotels and other attractions. Because Disney doesn't pay a very high wage to most of their cast members, neither does anyone else in this town. I know plenty of people who work for Disney just to have that cast member pass.

I know we would have had passes sooner if a payment plan was an option.

[Mindy5767]

I meant an AP payment plan. The other parks offer AP payment plays except Disney.

OH!!!! By other parks... you mean shhhhh non-Disney parks! I heard there might be some nearby?:confused3 So can't even imagine getting an AP for them that it never occurred to me that that was what you were talking about! :rotfl2:

[Merry Mousketeer]

I know this is a WDW-focused discussion, but out here in DL we have a totally different issue. Depending on who you talk to, APs have either hit 1 million or are very close. According to some Disney cast members, APers at DL are primarily locals and spend less than most out-of-townies because DL APers frequently eat and stay off-property. They also tend to spend less on souvenirs, but I think that may be due to the quality of souvenirs in the park. I know a lot of APers who tend to purchase the big-ticket collectibles rather than the standard trinkets. Supposedly, it's not uncommon for APers to outnumber tourists at DL. However, from what I recall I think DL offers more discounts to their APers.

We live in Northern California, but have had APs for years. We tend to go against the trend since we eat on property, always purchase something and tend to stay on property since we're DVC members. Since we're planning to go on the Podcast 2.0 Cruise, it's cheaper for me to upgrade to the Premier Pass this year.

There is a rumor that DL plans to begin raising the price of the DL AP significantly over the next few years to reduce the number of APs. There has even been rumors of bringing back the ticket books to force people to have to choose which attractions they really want to go on in the hopes of reducing the lines in the queues.

[WaltD4Me]

I know this is a WDW-focused discussion, but out here in DL we have a totally different issue. Depending on who you talk to, APs have either hit 1 million or are very close. According to some Disney cast members, APers at DL are primarily locals and spend less than most out-of-townies because DL APers frequently eat and stay off-property. They also tend to spend less on souvenirs, but I think that may be due to the quality of souvenirs in the park. I know a lot of APers who tend to purchase the big-ticket collectibles rather than the standard trinkets. Supposedly, it's not uncommon for APers to outnumber tourists at DL. However, from what I recall I think DL offers more discounts to their APers.

We live in Northern California, but have had APs for years. We tend to go against the trend since we eat on property, always purchase something and tend to stay on property since we're DVC members. Since we're planning to go on the Podcast 2.0 Cruise, it's cheaper for me to upgrade to the Premier Pass this year.

There is a rumor that DL plans to begin raising the price of the DL AP significantly over the next few years to reduce the number of APs. There has even been rumors of bringing back the ticket books to force people to have to choose which attractions they really want to go on in the hopes of reducing the lines in the queues.

Interesting. Aren't locals DL's bread and butter? I've heard this before about DL. As much as I want to see DL, it makes me a little hesistant about going. It seems like they say it's ALWAYS crowded. I suppose you could say the same about WDW, but I manage to go when crowds are (to, me) are very reasonable and I can strategize the best park to go to crowd wise, but seems like with all the locals who go to DL and with much less space this isn't the case there.

Disclaimer!: I have NOTHING against locals. I think it's great they have such a loyalty and history with DL. I just don't like crowds. :teeth:

[Merry Mousketeer]

Interesting. Aren't locals DL's bread and butter? I've heard this before about DL. As much as I want to see DL, it makes me a little hesistant about going. It seems like they say it's ALWAYS crowded. I suppose you could say the same about WDW, but I manage to go when crowds are (to, me) are very reasonable and I can strategize the best park to go to crowd wise, but seems like with all the locals who go to DL and with much less space this isn't the case there.

Disclaimer!: I have NOTHING against locals. I think it's great they have such a loyalty and history with DL. I just don't like crowds. :teeth:

Hi! Don't let crowds disuade you from visiting DL. It is a charming park and you would really enjoy yourself. Like any Disney park, there are times of the year when it's more crowded than others. Also, there are several types of APs that have blackout dates preventing APers from entering the parks - unless they pay a modest admission price. Also, APers tend to arrive later in the day and leave after the fireworks or first showing of Fantasmic. So, arrive early, take a break at mid-day and relax at your hotel, then return in the evening when DL is absolutely gorgeous. Now all of this strategy could change when The World of Color water pageant opens at DCA.

So, please come on out and visit DL and walk in Walt's footsteps!

[YellowMickeyPonchos]

As Michael said, the DL AP situation is very different. We have 4 levels of AP here. Each has it's own blackout dates. WDW has none. This allows all income levels to have a shot of the magic. In fact, since they initated the AP payment program (with no interest), the number of APs rose so drastically that the park has seen an increase in total attendance numbers of 15%. That proves John's point about the value of doing the payment plan.

That being said, Disney is worried they have over-extended themselves with this program - hence, the increase in AP pricing. If they increase the pricing in this way, the folks that bought because of the plan might be less likely to renew, thus "culling the herd" and bringing those numbers back to a more managable levels.

Some of the issues they are facing because of increased passholder numbers include increased demand of parking - the garage fills much earlier and they have to turn to overflow. The new lot opening soon will alleviate some of this. This same issue has increased demand and wear on the trams, too. They have already re-worked the stroller/wheelchair rental center and centralized it.

We also get a lot of discounts, based on the level of our pass. Ones that they extended increased discounts on through May, because we don't buy merchandise. 20% in all Disney owned shops for premium APs. Our pass discounts equal the DVC discount through most of the park and we do get in-park merchandise discounts off $10 or higher purchases. And no - we don't get a discount in WDW for having our DL AP. The new Premier Passport could change that though. As Michael said - we locals don't spend the money like the tourists. We come in multiple cars, we leave before dinner time or come after lunch. I'm very choosy about what I buy and we bring our kid's lunch from home at times. We come to swing dance, or catch a quick ride or two.

All is not doom and gloom for tourists though, because of this. Keep in mind that only Premium AP holders can attend the parks on all Saturdays (Deluxe has to sit them out during summer and peak periods), and most locals work during the week, so tourist don't have that bad of a time with the crowds. The key comes in being smart during peak vacation season. Go into the park early - locals get there after 10 or 11 and leave out by 6pm, especially on Sunday. There is another influx of locals after 4pm, though - the nighttime crowd - there for just fireworks, dinner, or Friday and Saturday date night and dancing. House of Blues concerts will also bring a later crowd, but they focus on DTD.

I hope this gives a little more insight on the pros and cons of the AP payment plan, as we have it here in DL.

[georgemoe]

It depends on what you mean. Today you can book a package and make regular payments with the condition that it is paid in full 45 days prior to arrival. From reading on the boards many people do this. Disney has all of your money prior to you making use of the service. If you don't pay then they have the option to deny you service.

If you mean staying and then making payments later I don't think it would work. What happens if you stop making payments? You've already received the service. Disney's only option would be to send it to collections and deny you access to Disney hotels until you paid. Maybe not even that.

The AP payment plan would work because Disney can simply disable the pass if you stop paying.

What I mean is a payment plan, to me, means you agree to make regular payments on something you receive now, not later. What you described above is nothing new. It's called a layaway plan. It's been around for years.

The last thing Disney needs is more cost in the system that would come with a collections department.

[doconeill]

The last thing Disney needs is more cost in the system that would come with a collections department.

I think that is the basic problem - Disney doesn't want to be a creditor. The demand for a payment plan in FL may be higher, but the issues that come with it will be higher as well.

If they want to stay out of the credit business, but want people to be able to pay at 0% interest, make it a 0% purchase option on the Disney Visa. Don't use the card for anything else. Make Chase "chase" the bad loans.

[rlovew]

As Michael said, the DL AP situation is very different. We have 4 levels of AP here. Each has it's own blackout dates. WDW has none. This allows all income levels to have a shot of the magic. In fact, since they initated the AP payment program (with no interest), the number of APs rose so drastically that the park has seen an increase in total attendance numbers of 15%. That proves John's point about the value of doing the payment plan.


There is a FL resident Seasonal Pass with blackout dates and they just added a weekday seasonal pass with blackout dates for FL residents as well as all weekends being blocked. Really if you wanted to put yourself on a payment plan as a FL resident you could buy the Weekday pass for about $160- the next time upgrade to the Seasonal pass for about $100 and then finally upgrade to the full pass for another $100.

[jeanigor]

I'm not sure that the current number of AP holders is as significant as the POTENTIAL number of APs that could be sold if there a payment plan.

We all have said it at one time or another - Disney is a business - what better way to sell more of your product then to make it more accessible to more people. If you can't (or are unwilling to) lower the price then spread out the payments.

The more APs you sell - the more money you make - and the more potential guests you have who will visit your parks who feel they need to 'use' their passes.

Extrapolate this out to how much money may be spent on food, souveniers, other passes for family members, etc.

Seems simple to me.......

I agree, Business 201.
But with the purported success of this plan in DL, would it create such an influx in crowds to create Easter/Christmas crowds throughout the year? Increased attendance is a good thing; however, overwhelming attendance when not prepared is a recipe for unhappy/non-return guests.

That being said, think of it from the other end of the financial spectrum. Would your bank lend you the cash to go on vacation? Perhaps they would. But I am willing to bet they are more likely to give you a loan for a car, house, or other piece of tangible property. As others have said, if you only had to make the first months payment before you used it, you could spend your vacation at Disney, park hop all week for $75 per person, and then default on your payments. True, Disney could disable the pass, but if you weren't planning on returning, then what would you care? You spent 7 days in the parks for less than $11 a day.

I would like to hope there are not too many people in the world that would do this. And I think it would be very beneficial to current, as well as potential AP holders. I'm just not sure the benefits outweigh the risks.

I don't make a boat load of money. I don't have mucho bucks to spend at the drop of a hat. When I decided to buy my AP, I budgeted for it. I stuck a little money aside every paycheck or two until I had enough for it. Just like PCC 2.0, I can't comfortably fork over the lump sum of my balance tomorrow. I stick a little aside and make a payment to Dreams. And its better than 0% interest if I keep my money in a savings account until I need it. Might as well earn a few cents.

[slapwhitey]

I agree, Business 201.
But with the purported success of this plan in DL, would it create such an influx in crowds to create Easter/Christmas crowds throughout the year? Increased attendance is a good thing; however, overwhelming attendance when not prepared is a recipe for unhappy/non-return guests.

That being said, think of it from the other end of the financial spectrum. Would your bank lend you the cash to go on vacation? Perhaps they would. But I am willing to bet they are more likely to give you a loan for a car, house, or other piece of tangible property. As others have said, if you only had to make the first months payment before you used it, you could spend your vacation at Disney, park hop all week for $75 per person, and then default on your payments. True, Disney could disable the pass, but if you weren't planning on returning, then what would you care? You spent 7 days in the parks for less than $11 a day.

I would like to hope there are not too many people in the world that would do this. And I think it would be very beneficial to current, as well as potential AP holders. I'm just not sure the benefits outweigh the risks.

I don't make a boat load of money. I don't have mucho bucks to spend at the drop of a hat. When I decided to buy my AP, I budgeted for it. I stuck a little money aside every paycheck or two until I had enough for it. Just like PCC 2.0, I can't comfortably fork over the lump sum of my balance tomorrow. I stick a little aside and make a payment to Dreams. And its better than 0% interest if I keep my money in a savings account until I need it. Might as well earn a few cents.

This was kind of my thoughts as well Todd. It all seems like a bit of a logistical nightmare. I'm sure there are options that I'm not thinking of (as people have said the other theme parks have figured a way). My only problem with comparing to another park is that those parks don't have an AP with a price point in the neighborhood of $500.

I'm not doubting there is a way to do it but the people and the power they would have to install to implement such a program would be something else. I'm not sure Disney would be willing to do that at this point.

This may also be an unpopular opinion but I also think Disney is not necessarily in the business to fill the parks (they are quite busy as it stands) but more in the business of filling hotels. Making a more affordable AP does not necessarily fill this desire. I could be way off....I'm just a crazy Canadian.

[FireDancer]

Very interesting topic. I see merit on both sides of the issue and it really would depend on the financial impact that the crediting would cause.

On the pro side it would get more people into the parks. While the payment for the pass would be delayed (meaning payment after consumption) the payment for rooms, food, and merchandise would not. Even if I do use the pass for a long stay and then stop paying has Disney made enough on my trip to write off the reaming amount due and still make an acceptable profit?

On the con side Disney may not want to be a creditor. The current system is a layaway system and the revenue for the trip is generated before the expense is realized. Adding a payment option would change that and some of the revenue would then trail the expense. I know just enough accounting to end up in a Federal prison if I try to actually do it in practice but the delayed revenue may cause some accounting issues because they will have to match it to the expense. If there are enough people who use this payment plan it could change the accounting enough to make a difference and in a publicly traded company that could effect numbers enough to impact stock. Many of the same counter arguments for the pros apply here. Is the added revenue from the people who wouldn't come enough to counter the accounting headaches and lost revenue from those that default?

Maybe there is a compromise. Since DVC members have an asset that I assume can have a lien placed against it the payment plan can be offered to DVC members first. If they don't pay their DVC points are held until they do so or a lien is placed against their membership so they can't sell it or use it until the defaulted payments are made up. I'm not sure how this would be done legally or logistically but that is what corporate lawyers are for.

My gut tells me that the people who default will be offset by the added revenue from not only the additional guests who buy the passes but also the existing guests that use the pass to justify a longer stay or an additional trip and from the revenue generated by the defaulting guests while they were on property. Without sitting down with the books and the accountants this is only a gut feeling and could be quite wrong.

[WaltD4Me]

As others have said, if you only had to make the first months payment before you used it, you could spend your vacation at Disney, park hop all week for $75 per person, and then default on your payments. True, Disney could disable the pass, but if you weren't planning on returning, then what would you care? You spent 7 days in the parks for less than $11 a day.

I would like to hope there are not too many people in the world that would do this. And I think it would be very beneficial to current, as well as potential AP holders. I'm just not sure the benefits outweigh the risks.

The more I think about this scenario the more I think it would happen alot more than we would think or hope it would. I can see the word spreading on the internet...."Okay, here is what you do to get Disney tickets cheap....." and 2 or 3 years ago it might not have been such an issue, but now? I don't know, I think alot more people would pay attention, think about the money they'd save, justify it in their head and do it. A HUGE amount of people, no, probably not, but way more than before the economy crashed.

Maybe a way to avoid this is to offer a payment plan only to current AP holders. For "established" guests. I think they'd appreciate it and be way less likely to do the "One trip cheap and done" thing.

[SamSam]

I don't make a boat load of money. I don't have mucho bucks to spend at the drop of a hat. When I decided to buy my AP, I budgeted for it. I stuck a little money aside every paycheck or two until I had enough for it. Just like PCC 2.0, I can't comfortably fork over the lump sum of my balance tomorrow. I stick a little aside and make a payment to Dreams. And its better than 0% interest if I keep my money in a savings account until I need it. Might as well earn a few cents.

Love your thinking! I remember as a teenager, using my babysitting money to buy my clothes on layaway. Then as a young married couple, with no extra money, sticking $5 a week into savings to save up for things.:goodvibes

[PEANUT1]

sorry to hijack thread..but are they still doing the 15month annual pass renewal? We are coming in December and want to renew while we are there and are keeping our fingers crossed that they are still doing it:)

[georgemoe]

sorry to hijack thread..but are they still doing the 15month annual pass renewal? We are coming in December and want to renew while we are there and are keeping our fingers crossed that they are still doing it:)

As long as you renew 30 days on either side of the expiration date I'm pretty sure the answer is yes unless they decide to change back to 12 months.

[kbelle8995]

I owned a annual pass for Disney while living in both Tallahassee and Palm Beach Gardens. So it depends on what you think on as local. I live far enough away that I have to stay in a hotel in order to go just to far away for a day trip.:goodvibes

I think Disney does not have to have a payment plan because they don't think that they need to.

I disagree.:)

[Mindy5767]

Disney Chase Visa has made offers in the past for certain payment plans for various Disney vacation options.

The whole comparison to DL is not so clear because of the geography. Even if you lived within the Orlando area, WDW is SO big that it makes more sense from a time-management point to eat somewhere on property.

In one of the business reports for Disney, I was reading about how the recession has hit hard. Park attendance is actually up, but revenue is down. What Disney World needs is not more park attendees. They need those attendees to spend money. Revenue from the parks is down significantly. Think about the offer of 3 free nights when you buy 4. It is a very smart business decision. What their goal is is to get people who are already coming, to stay longer so they'll spend more money on food and souvenirs or other revenue bringers such as dinner shows, tours, etc. The 3 free extra nights is filling empty hotel beds, so not a big cost for them here. Housekeeping maybe. Then they're giving you three days of park admission after the first 4 days are the bulk of the cost. Those 3 additional days cost less than $20. They want you in the parks and spending.

That said. and back to the original question here. I'm an AP holder and DVC. I decided to extend my stay by one day (no points left). Instead of paying big bucks for another night in the 2 bedroom villa which we don't need because the other family we're traveling with is leaving on Friday night. So we are moving over to Pop Century. So I asked the woman, being that it is Easter weekend... is there any discounts. I told her I qualify for AP, DVC, AAA and Chase Disney VISA. She found me a very nice discount using a code for AP discount. saved me more than $50.00, which I will return to them in park spending. :woohoo:

Oh... by the way... what is this bounce back a few of you mention?

[doconeill]

I told her I qualify for AP, DVC, AAA and Chase Disney VISA. She found me a very nice discount using a code for AP discount. saved me more than $50.00, which I will return to them in park spending. :woohoo:

I did something similar, when I was taking DD#1 down for SWW last year. Rather than burn two nights of points I called up to see what I could get for a couple nights at POP, which we never stayed at before. He asked if I had any pin codes or discounts, and I said, "I pretty much qualify for all of them!" Got 40% off room only, not sure what codes were used though.


Oh... by the way... what is this bounce back a few of you mention?

I've never gotten one, but I understand its an offer you receive while at the resort to book your next stay in advance at a discount.