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PBB
03-15-2010, 11:12 AM
I just got off the phone and I am so fed up with DVC and Member Services. Our son is going to WDW for a couple of days and we gave him our points to stay at one of the resorts. He was down last week and purchased a 6 day pass knowing he was coming back this week.

Over the weekend, we spoke about him getting an annual pass. I called member service and 3 agents told me he was not eligible for a DVC Member Pass. ONLY the DVC member gets the discount not the family members.

I spoke to a manager finally who I finally read the rules from the DVC member site that stated that our family was entitled to a discount. However, my wife would have to be there to purchase the ticket.

So, family members are penalized if they vacation separately . Disney has gotten to be worse than a government. Hospitality has gone away. It just amazes me that in bad economic time you would treat a customer who wants to come back to your park.

So, in the end.....this is what happens......My son does not pay Disney another $ 120 and he does not come back to Disney for another year and spend more money. Before I get the "Why don't you just sell your membership" comment that seems to accompany a complaint on this forum when you complain about DVC. We are going to have the conversation tonight about whether it is worth staying a DVC owner.

While the hotels are still the same as when we purchased the Disney Management and attitude towards their guests have gone away. I am tired of playing the gotcha game with Disney it is not fun. Disney used to show hospitality towards their guests.........I don't feel the magic anymore.

cpdwiz
03-15-2010, 11:23 AM
I just got off the phone and I am so fed up with DVC and Member Services. Our son is going to WDW for a couple of days and we gave him our points to stay at one of the resorts. He was down last week and purchased a 6 day pass knowing he was coming back this week.

Over the weekend, we spoke about him getting an annual pass. I called member service and 3 agents told me he was not eligible for a DVC Member Pass. ONLY the DVC member gets the discount not the family members.

I spoke to a manager finally who I finally read the rules from the DVC member site that stated that our family was entitled to a discount. However, my wife would have to be there to purchase the ticket.

So, family members are penalized if they vacation separately . Disney has gotten to be worse than a government. Hospitality has gone away. It just amazes me that in bad economic time you would treat a customer who wants to come back to your park.

So, in the end.....this is what happens......My son does not pay Disney another $ 120 and he does not come back to Disney for another year and spend more money. Before I get the "Why don't you just sell your membership" comment that seems to accompany a complaint on this forum when you complain about DVC. We are going to have the conversation tonight about whether it is worth staying a DVC owner.

While the hotels are still the same as when we purchased the Disney Management and attitude towards their guests have gone away. I am tired of playing the gotcha game with Disney it is not fun. Disney used to show hospitality towards their guests.........I don't feel the magic anymore.

What do the rules say? Does the person who owns the DVC have to be there to purchase? If thats the rules, so be it....However, I do know the kids have to live at home with you to get it. Does he live at home with you?

That rule is there to protect us as members. This way, DVC folks do not purchase annual passes for their "kids" who are not really kids. NOT that this is your case.

Why not purchase his AP online, and give him the voucher to take down and redeem. I would think that would be ok, even if you are not with him, as long as he presents an ID with the same address on it?

PBB
03-15-2010, 11:38 AM
What do the rules say? Does the person who owns the DVC have to be there to purchase? If thats the rules, so be it....However, I do know the kids have to live at home with you to get it. Does he live at home with you?

That rule is there to protect us as members. This way, DVC folks do not purchase annual passes for their "kids" who are not really kids. NOT that this is your case.

Why not purchase his AP online, and give him the voucher to take down and redeem. I would think that would be ok, even if you are not with him, as long as he presents an ID with the same address on it?

They want the membership card and me or my wife to be there when it is purchased. We are not there. Unfortunately, it becomes a difficult transaction because he is trading/upgrading a ticket.

He is about 2 hours away and is driving to WDW. It was a spur of the moment decision about the DVC AP pass.

No one is trying to take advantage of Disney. He is my son and he has a GA Drivers license that is 4 years old and has the same address as the membership that has been their 12 years since he was 8 years old.

There are times you bend, overlook or make an exception and if management can't be authorized to do this then I don't need to be a customer anymore. I have been there 40 times in my life and I am tired of being treated like a cheater.

I just got off the phone with member administration to get the information about selling our membership. I get the same treatment from the Cable company......Oh, that is right Bob Iger ran a cable company that makes sense now.

dmoore22
03-15-2010, 11:41 AM
Sorry to hear about your situation with the AP purchase. We have 6 kids which still use our home address as their own. We just recently renewed our APs with the DVC discount. It has always gone smooth as silk for us (knock on wood). I usually do the transaction over the phone, they send me a voucher in an email that I can print then provide to GS when it's time to pick up the AP. The only thing is that kids have to provide an ID showing they live with us. I would recommend using the "Contact" link on the DVC Member site and send an email about this situation. They will follow-up with a phone call to get the particulars, etc. We have done that in the past. DVC worked for us in resolving the issue. It was very satisfying. They called several times to follow thru. That seems to work better than just calling and getting a random CM that is not equipped to handle guest complaints.

TagsMissy
03-15-2010, 11:41 AM
Sorry I don't see the issue --- as a DVC member I appreciate the fact that the actual DVC member needs to be present to purchase something that is a DVC perk. The perk is that of a DVC member and is there for our protection as mentioned above.

I do hope your child lives at home with you with ID to prove his address.

If you want your child to have your benefits without you being there add him to your account and he can then get his own membership card.

It's the same as military discounts I can get as a spouse at shops, etc--- I am eligible but my husband needs to show his ID. Do I have a tanty because I don't get the discount if he is not with me -- no. If I want his discount I wait until I am with him or I just pay full price. I can get a family card, he needs to add me to his account -- we are just too lazy right now to do it LOL so like you I have the option to be added I just don't bother.

TagsMissy
03-15-2010, 11:46 AM
They want the membership card and me or my wife to be there when it is purchased. We are not there. Unfortunately, it becomes a difficult transaction because he is trading/upgrading a ticket.

He is about 2 hours away and is driving to WDW. It was a spur of the moment decision about the DVC AP pass.

No one is trying to take advantage of Disney. He is my son and he has a GA Drivers license that is 4 years old and has the same address as the membership that has been their 12 years since he was 8 years old.

There are times you bend, overlook or make an exception and if management can't be authorized to do this then I don't need to be a customer anymore. I have been there 40 times in my life and I am tired of being treated like a cheater.

I just got off the phone with member administration to get the information about selling our membership. I get the same treatment from the Cable company......Oh, that is right Bob Iger ran a cable company that makes sense now.

Are you saying he doesn't actually live with you, but he has some old ID with the old address that is yours on it?

Before I comment further I just want clarification that I am reading correctly. :confused3

Tara
03-15-2010, 11:48 AM
Are you saying he doesn't actually live with you, but he has some old ID with the old address that is yours on it?

Before I comment further I just want clarification that I am reading correctly. :confused3

After reading the posts here, that was my question as well.

Hmom03
03-15-2010, 11:49 AM
I understand your frustration, but I don't know what other choice Disney has. Unfortunately, the internet is full of ways to skirt Disney's rules and people are always finding another loophole. The only way for Disney to handle this is to stick the rules, regardless of the situation. I'm caught in one those situations myself right now. But, instead of being mad at DVC about it, I'm annoyed at all the people before me that tried to cheat their way to saving a couple of bucks that ruined it for people with real problems.

Brave teacher
03-15-2010, 11:58 AM
I don't understand why you are having such a fit about DVC not wanting to bend the rules specifically for your situation. I am happy they are sticking to their guns on this one. If your son's name is not on the account, he is not a DVC member even though he has been able to benefit from your membership for the past 12 years. He is not due anything here.

PBB
03-15-2010, 12:00 PM
Sorry I don't see the issue --- as a DVC member I appreciate the fact that the actual DVC member needs to be present to purchase something that is a DVC perk. The perk is that of a DVC member and is there for our protection as mentioned above.

I do hope your child lives at home with you with ID to prove his address.

If you want your child to have your benefits without you being there add him to your account and he can then get.


How is protecting you ? Please.......It does not take away anything from anyone.

My son is a college student whose permanent address is our home. He lives here 4 months a year and is away at school for 8 months. He can not be a resident of the State he goes to school in. His legal residence is at our house. We take him off as a dependent on our taxes as well. What is next ? Do I need to submit a DNA sample to prove he is my son to appease WDW ticketing ? Please......I can't believe the stupidity some times.......

Associate members are not eligible either for a discount on their own. Perhaps, you should have to register your family members with DVC so they know who is part of your family and who is not.

I am sorry I can't be with him......My morphine pump that is implanted in my spinal canal does not work well with rollercoasters and ECV's.

tjkraz
03-15-2010, 12:04 PM
No one is trying to take advantage of Disney...

The problem is that if Disney was more lenient in how this perk is administered other people WOULD immediately try to take advantage. If, for example, there was some loophole that could allow renters to take advantage of the AP discount (perhaps claiming to be a step-relative with a different last name) it would be repeated ad nausem on websites and forums.

There are times you bend, overlook or make an exception and if management can't be authorized to do this then I don't need to be a customer anymore.

If I were you, I'd send the child out there with a photocopy of a parent's driver's license and the DVC member card. See if a guest relations ticket agent is willing to make the exception.

Again, if Disney made a habit of offering exceptions over the phone, it would be repeated, used and abused. I would expect nothing more from Member Services than to quote chapter and verse on the rules as they exist.

I have been there 40 times in my life and I am tired of being treated like a cheater.

If the rules state that an OWNER must be present, then those are the rules. :confused3

I really don't understand the perception that Disney could/should jump through hoops to accommodate EVERY guest request. What's next--skipping attraction lines when running late for a dining reservation? Late check-outs for those with evening flights?

Where does it all end? Disney still has to demonstrate some degree of responsibility when deciding when exceptions are appropriate.

Cmbar
03-15-2010, 12:08 PM
Well I for one feel your frustration. I don't think for a second that you are trying to cheat Disney. Sounds like to me that your son is not living at home (possibly off at college) in which case I totally think he should still be entitled to the benefit of a DVC annual pass. I dont' think it is cheating at all and I am sorry that a DVC member made you feel that way. Now rules are rules, so if the rules state that the member must be there for the transaction then that is a frustrating situation for you with older children. I agree that there must be a way around this rule, possibly by buying online. I hope you get it worked out. And I don't think you should sell your membership because of a few bad customer service issues. Only if you feel that the vacations you take at Disney are not enjoyable anymore. I sure hope you don't sell your membership because of some kneejerk reaction to frustration (understandable as it may be). Take a deep breath and think it through. I know things aren't as they once were but unfortunately there is going to be change in the many years we own a DVC membership. In fact my guess is that you were an owner prior to when they had DVC annual Pass discounts. So some things have changed for the good!

Hang in there. I really hope you get it worked out. I understand your frustration!:grouphug:

TagsMissy
03-15-2010, 12:12 PM
How is protecting you ? Please.......It does not take away anything from anyone.

My son is a college student whose permanent address is our home. He lives here 4 months a year and is away at school for 8 months. He can not be a resident of the State he goes to school in. His legal residence is at our house. We take him off as a dependent on our taxes as well. What is next ? Do I need to submit a DNA sample to prove he is my son to appease WDW ticketing ? Please......I can't believe the stupidity some times.......

Associate members are not eligible either for a discount on their own. Perhaps, you should have to register your family members with DVC so they know who is part of your family and who is not.

I am sorry I can't be with him......My morphine pump that is implanted in my spinal canal does not work well with rollercoasters and ECV's.

The reason people scamming affects me is that enough people scam a system I risk losing a legitimate perk... I am not saying you are scamming but in general that is an issue.

It was not made clear until now your son was at school. You simply stated your son had a 4 year old driver's license which had your address -- that sounded suspicious.

This is kinda a grey situation now for me -- I do not know how a child away for college works with DVC. Technically he isn't physically living at home right now but is away at school but returns for 1/3 of the year to your home. Does that make him eligible I do not know?

However it still stands, the DVC member needs to make the purchase over the phone as others have stated or be present to purchase a ticket. I still do not see any issue with Disney for following their rules. :confused3 It seems as though nobody is saying you cannot buy the AP for him and hand him the voucher, I certainly am not but a line has to be drawn somewhere as to how much a non-member can do.

tay72699
03-15-2010, 12:12 PM
Are you saying he doesn't actually live with you, but he has some old ID with the old address that is yours on it?

Before I comment further I just want clarification that I am reading correctly. :confused3

I am reading that he does not live with OP. But I do know that the member has to be there with their membership card to receive the DVC AP cost. Just like each person has to be present with ID (even children from what I understand) to redeem their Give a Day voucher.

dmoore22
03-15-2010, 12:12 PM
How is protecting you ? Please.......It does not take away anything from anyone.

My son is a college student whose permanent address is our home. He lives here 4 months a year and is away at school for 8 months. He can not be a resident of the State he goes to school in. His legal residence is at our house. We take him off as a dependent on our taxes as well. What is next ? Do I need to submit a DNA sample to prove he is my son to appease WDW ticketing ? Please......I can't believe the stupidity some times.......

Associate members are not eligible either for a discount on their own. Perhaps, you should have to register your family members with DVC so they know who is part of your family and who is not.

I am sorry I can't be with him......My morphine pump that is implanted in my spinal canal does not work well with rollercoasters and ECV's.

I hate to be a broken record but, as I mentioned earlier, I strongly recommend using the "Contact" link on the DVC Member site and send an email about this situation. They will follow-up with a phone call in a surprisingly short amount of time. It has always been worth the effort for us when an issue has arisen. Like you, our kids are in college with our home as their "permanent" address. All of our kids are in the Disney Database so when we call to make reservations, purchase park passes etc. they will ask who is coming, etc. and verify the info is correct and update as necessary. Usually its the child's current age that is incorrect in the database. Otherwise it has always gone smoothly for us (knock on wood).

dmoore22
03-15-2010, 12:40 PM
"WDW Admission Media may be purchased by calling Member Services or by going to Guest Relations at the Magic Kingdom Park, Epcot, Disney’s Hollywood Studios, and Disney’s Animal Kingdom Theme Park or Downtown Disney area. New WDW Admission Media also can be purchased at dvcmember.com. At time of purchase or certificate redemption (for purchases through Member Services or online), Members must present their DVC Member ID Card, and if applicable, proof of Florida residency, and all adults (ages 18 and up) must present a valid driver’s license or state identification card showing they reside in the same household."

Page 6, Disney Vacation Club Member Benefits Guide

Chuck S
03-15-2010, 12:45 PM
If your son has a valid state issued ID that shows your address (assuming it is not an expired license) many times they will accept a photo copy of the member's license and DVC Membership card. If he has already left to drive to WDW, you could possibly fax copies to him.

But in the end, they are Disney's rules to interpret and enforce. If they are now being more strict, then there is nothing you can do. Discounts and perks are not entitlements under our contracts, and may be changed or withdrawn at any time.

Tara
03-15-2010, 12:56 PM
The college issue is a red herring here, I think. It wouldn't matter if the son were in college away from home or living at home - he's traveling to Disney without an owner. It's an issue of ownership and what's required to purchase an AP, not who is eligible.

BIERMUGG
03-15-2010, 01:10 PM
Call member services and have him listed on the account as an associate member. If The account is in your name and your wife's , god forbid something happens to you both, He will have a tuff time proving family ownership. Having him listed as a owner is totally legal. This might also help with the annual pass.

dzorn
03-15-2010, 01:17 PM
I am reading that he does not live with OP. But I do know that the member has to be there with their membership card to receive the DVC AP cost. Just like each person has to be present with ID (even children from what I understand) to redeem their Give a Day voucher.

We my BIL did not need us there. We gave him a copy of our DVC card and DL showing our address that also was the same as his. They upgraded his package ticket with no problem.

Denise in MI

rlovew
03-15-2010, 01:23 PM
If he is living 2 hours from Disney at a college I am guessing it is a FL college- with his college ID he can get a FL AP which is only about $10 more than a DVC AP.

dmoore22
03-15-2010, 01:29 PM
Actually the Florida AP is now $20 cheaper than the DVC AP. He could also consider a Florida Seasonal Pass.

sissy_42
03-15-2010, 01:31 PM
If he is living 2 hours from Disney at a college I am guessing it is a FL college- with his college ID he can get a FL AP which is only about $10 more than a DVC AP.

Premium Fl resident pass it $489 and the regular one is $369. How much is it for DVC members? Is it exactly $100 off the regular price? If so the Fl resident price is actually better.

PBB
03-15-2010, 01:32 PM
It appears I was correct.

I just got off the phone from a member of the Executive Team with DVC. Disney guidelines allow for children of members who are High School/College age that are not with the Parent/Member to receive the discount. This is not uncommon and has been done before.

He was very surprised that 2 member service agents quoted the rules incorrectly to me and he is going to speak with member service manager about her comments as well. He stated that as long as the address on the ID is the same as the member they would accept that as proof. In fact, that the reservation with our son's name and our name and address on it should have been enough for guest services as long as his ID matched up with this information.

He wrote up a Guest Service Ticket and provided me the number to give my son for any guest service agent to pull and provide him a DVC Annual Pass.

It appears that Member Service agents and Managers needs some more training........It is a shame that they were more concerned about arguing than actually putting me on hold and looking up the guidelines that provided me the perk that I was actually due our family.

It is a shame that we can not critique DVC here without being attacked for our criticism. DVC is not beyond making a mistake and neither am I but there has to be some consideration each other.

I do not know what other information I could have provide the Member Service Agents other than what I provided. Son going down on our points (so a disney representative checks his license upon check in), the reservation is in his name using our points (we approved of him using our membership) and a legal Identification card that is over 4 years old shows his legal address to be the same as our membership. The last name, the address and the reservation should have been enough. I asked the DVC what more could I have provided the agent to succeed ? Nothing......was his comment.

So at the end of the day.....No one in my family is cheating anything out of anyone. We got the "perk" that was due us.

dmoore22
03-15-2010, 01:39 PM
It appears that Member Service agents and Managers needs some more training........It is a shame that they were more concerned about arguing than actually putting me on hold and looking up the guidelines that provided me the perk that I was actually due our family.

Glad to see that it finally worked out for you. Obviously we all need to be vigilant in letting DVC know what is right as well as what is going wrong with DVC. This could happen to any of us. Apparently these MS agents and Managers slept through their Traditions Training.

PBB
03-15-2010, 01:48 PM
Well I for one feel your frustration. I don't think for a second that you are trying to cheat Disney. Sounds like to me that your son is not living at home (possibly off at college) in which case I totally think he should still be entitled to the benefit of a DVC annual pass. I dont' think it is cheating at all and I am sorry that a DVC member made you feel that way. Now rules are rules, so if the rules state that the member must be there for the transaction then that is a frustrating situation for you with older children. I agree that there must be a way around this rule, possibly by buying online. I hope you get it worked out. And I don't think you should sell your membership because of a few bad customer service issues. Only if you feel that the vacations you take at Disney are not enjoyable anymore. I sure hope you don't sell your membership because of some kneejerk reaction to frustration (understandable as it may be). Take a deep breath and think it through. I know things aren't as they once were but unfortunately there is going to be change in the many years we own a DVC membership. In fact my guess is that you were an owner prior to when they had DVC annual Pass discounts. So some things have changed for the good!

Hang in there. I really hope you get it worked out. I understand your frustration!:grouphug:

Thank you for the supportive words and seeing what I was trying to relate. No one was cheating anyone.

I have been going since 1971 and Disney was great until 1998 and then it started to go down in my opinion. While prices were a little higher than most parks I never minded paying for it. Pricing for ticket media has just become unreasonable. Proof is that in a bad economy they raised prices.....Maybe it is the internet that caused the problems. Every time something seemed like a great deal or value Disney comes along and changes it so it is not a great deal or value.

I remember my grandparents taking us as small kids and them only having to pay an entrance fee( I think $ 3.00). They bought us the ticket books. They did not ride the rides except for the occasional A, B or C event and then they would go buy an individual ticket if they wanted to join us. They spoiled us rotten with souvenirs and treats. They spent time with us and it was enjoyable for them and the spent money without being forced. If today's ticket media was in place.....they would have never went.

Thanks Again! BTW, we are still having the discussion about selling tonight.

Muushka
03-15-2010, 01:53 PM
OP, I am late on this thread, but glad to see that it is resolved.

It is a shame that we can not critique DVC here without being attacked for our criticism. DVC is not beyond making a mistake and neither am I but there has to be some consideration each other.

Amen.

How do I know that the magic is lost? I no longer use my Disney Visa. I could care less whether or not I earn Disney money.

But I still have a great fondness for a thread that I belong to.:love:

KAT4DISNEY
03-15-2010, 02:11 PM
OP - I'm late to this thread also but am happy that things worked out. Of course a college student still claims your address as their own so that's not even a question. Too often people have gotten so suspicious of scams trying to be run that they overlook legitimate issues and spend too much time trying to police when they could try and help.

I seem to be following you around to threads today Muushka! :wave2: Where did you go next? lol

tjkraz
03-15-2010, 02:18 PM
It appears I was correct.

I just got off the phone from a member of the Executive Team with DVC. Disney guidelines allow for children of members who are High School/College age that are not with the Parent/Member to receive the discount. This is not uncommon and has been done before.

He was very surprised that 2 member service agents quoted the rules incorrectly to me and he is going to speak with member service manager about her comments as well. He stated that as long as the address on the ID is the same as the member they would accept that as proof. In fact, that the reservation with our son's name and our name and address on it should have been enough for guest services as long as his ID matched up with this information.

He wrote up a Guest Service Ticket and provided me the number to give my son for any guest service agent to pull and provide him a DVC Annual Pass.

It appears that Member Service agents and Managers needs some more training........It is a shame that they were more concerned about arguing than actually putting me on hold and looking up the guidelines that provided me the perk that I was actually due our family.

It is a shame that we can not critique DVC here without being attacked for our criticism. DVC is not beyond making a mistake and neither am I but there has to be some consideration each other.

I do not know what other information I could have provide the Member Service Agents other than what I provided. Son going down on our points (so a disney representative checks his license upon check in), the reservation is in his name using our points (we approved of him using our membership) and a legal Identification card that is over 4 years old shows his legal address to be the same as our membership. The last name, the address and the reservation should have been enough. I asked the DVC what more could I have provided the agent to succeed ? Nothing......was his comment.

So at the end of the day.....No one in my family is cheating anything out of anyone. We got the "perk" that was due us.

Personally I never questioned whether your son was eligible...the question is whether you are able to comply with Disney's chosen method of administering this perk. As dmoore22 quoted above, the language specifically states that "Members must present their DVC Member ID Card, and if applicable, proof of Florida residency, and all adults (ages 18 and up) must present a valid driver’s license or state identification card showing they reside in the same household."

The idea is that only members who are listed on the deed, and their immediate families living in the same household, can obtain the discount. Guest Relations agents do not have the ability to access name and address information from DVC deeds. Therefore, the method chosen to identify members is by their presenting a DVC member ID card and driver's license. Adult dependents are identified by presenting a photo ID which matches the address on the member's ID.

There is no mechanism in place to confirm eligibility of a dependent child who visits without a member parent.

If the exec opened a Guest Service Ticket, your son probably will not have issues this time. Although I would still recommend bringing a copy of parent's DVC Member ID and Driver's License....just in case.

But frankly I'll be surprised if they truly do determine that Member Services was incorrect. What MS told you complies with DVC's written guidelines for the AP discount program. I've heard of many other people questioning DVC on this same issue over the years and the answer seems to consistently be that a member must be present.

If they want to alter the guidelines, so be it. But as the rules stand today, the exec you spoke with is incorrect and Member Services was right.

If you want to address the problem once and for all, I'd consider altering your deed to include your son. It will cost you a couple hundred dollars but then he will get his own Member ID card and be eligible for all of the perks and discounts to which members are entitled.

mwmuntz
03-15-2010, 02:24 PM
It is a shame that we can not critique DVC here without being attacked for our criticism. DVC is not beyond making a mistake and neither am I but there has to be some consideration each other.


Most folks on this board have made a large financial and emotional investment in Disney and DVC. Criticizing Disney indirectly criticizes their (our)decision to be members. I think it's a natural response to get a little defensive. Plus, unfortunately we hear more and more of people trying to abuse the system, and your original post was a litlle fuzzy on what you were trying to do. Don't read too much into it.

Glad your situation all worked out for you. Sounds to me like you have had other bad experiences though, if you are willing to sell your membership over it. Hope your son has a great trip and Disney does something to win your confidence back.

PBB
03-15-2010, 02:34 PM
If the exec opened a Guest Service Ticket, your son probably will not have issues this time. Although I would still recommend bringing a copy of parent's DVC Member ID and Driver's License....just in case.

But frankly I'll be surprised if they truly do determine that Member Services was incorrect. What MS told you complies with DVC's written guidelines for the AP discount program. I've heard of many other people questioning DVC on this same issue over the years and the answer seems to consistently be that a member must be present.

If they want to alter the guidelines, so be it. But as the rules stand today, the exec you spoke with is incorrect and Member Services was right.

If you want to address the problem once and for all, I'd consider altering your deed to include your son. It will cost you a couple hundred dollars but then he will get his own Member ID card and be eligible for all of the perks and discounts to which members are entitled.

The Executive Team agent told me the staff was wrong. They have guidelines to deal with such events and it such have been handled better. T One member service agent told me that no one but the actual member would receive the discount no kids, no associates.....no one but the actual deed member. That was a incorrect statement that I read the actual rule back to the agent from the DVC member website and she told that I was still wrong. If Disney would be reasonable and found a way that we can confirm that our family members are who we say they are then I would not have to spend $ 400 to receive a discount. The fact is WDW should provide DVC members the same discount it gives someone who does nothing but live in FL.

Muushka
03-15-2010, 02:36 PM
OP - I'm late to this thread also but am happy that things worked out. Of course a college student still claims your address as their own so that's not even a question. Too often people have gotten so suspicious of scams trying to be run that they overlook legitimate issues and spend too much time trying to police when they could try and help.

I seem to be following you around to threads today Muushka! :wave2: Where did you go next? lol

Housework! Do you want the living room or the kitchen???:goodvibes

KAT4DISNEY
03-15-2010, 02:37 PM
Housework! Do you want the living room or the kitchen???:goodvibes

Hey - I'll take both if you take the tax work I was going to start! :rotfl:

PBB
03-15-2010, 02:48 PM
Most folks on this board have made a large financial and emotional investment in Disney and DVC. Criticizing Disney indirectly criticizes their (our)decision to be members. I think it's a natural response to get a little defensive. Plus, unfortunately we hear more and more of people trying to abuse the system, and your original post was a litlle fuzzy on what you were trying to do. Don't read too much into it.

Glad your situation all worked out for you. Sounds to me like you have had other bad experiences though, if you are willing to sell your membership over it. Hope your son has a great trip and Disney does something to win your confidence back.

I read an article in a Florida Paper( maybe the Orlando Sentinel) 10 or so years ago that compared Disney to a religion. It was very interesting how the writer compared Walt to God, Mickey to Jesus, Disney World as a Mecca or Heaven that nothing went wrong and no evils existed. I wish I could find it because it did show how some of the followers are almost a cult like.

I have to admit that people can be blinded or look the other way when Disney does bad or something wrong. The fuzziness in the original post comes from 4 back surgeries, oxycontin and a morphine pump that is implanted in me. Sometimes, I don't type what I think. Hence, why my wife and I are not at WDW with our college age son who lives in GA and goes to school in NC but was in Ocala when I started this thread. All I was trying to do was make his life easier by calling MS for clarification and all they did was not do their job properly and aggravate.

mwmuntz
03-15-2010, 03:02 PM
I read an article in a Florida Paper( maybe the Orlando Sentinel) 10 or so years ago that compared Disney to a religion. It was very interesting how the writer compared Walt to God, Mickey to Jesus, Disney World as a Mecca or Heaven that nothing went wrong and no evils existed. I wish I could find it because it did show how some of the followers are almost a cult like.

I have to admit that people can be blinded or look the other way when Disney does bad or something wrong. The fuzziness in the original post comes from 4 back surgeries, oxycontin and a morphine pump that is implanted in me. Sometimes, I don't type what I think. Hence, why my wife and I are not at WDW with our college age son who lives in GA and goes to school in NC but was in Ocala when I started this thread. All I was trying to do was make his life easier by calling MS for clarification and all they did was not do their job properly and aggravate.

I'm so sorry to hear about your back pain. I hope you eventually get the relief and permanent healing that you need.

Unfortunately, it makes sense now why you would consider selling your membership. If you can't use it, and it would be a hassle for your son to use it to it's fullest potential, then why bother keeping it? I hope something changes for you that would make you and your family be able to enjoy it in the future. You may just want to consider what others have suggested and add your son to the title, so that there will be no questions or grey area going forward.

I wish you and your family all the best!

dburg30
03-15-2010, 03:05 PM
So at the end of the day.....No one in my family is cheating anything out of anyone. We got the "perk" that was due us.

I dont think ANYONE in this post said any different. I think I read many times that people posted something to the effect of "the rules are there to keep others from taking advantage" and I think all of those also stated that they didnt think you were trying to cheat anyone. They were just pointing out why they have rules like that.

I had no doubt that it would work out in the end, and I'm glad you got to talk to someone and they were going to make sure the CS folks knew. And I'm sure he will.

Cmbar
03-15-2010, 03:10 PM
I read an article in a Florida Paper( maybe the Orlando Sentinel) 10 or so years ago that compared Disney to a religion. It was very interesting how the writer compared Walt to God, Mickey to Jesus, Disney World as a Mecca or Heaven that nothing went wrong and no evils existed. I wish I could find it because it did show how some of the followers are almost a cult like.

I have to admit that people can be blinded or look the other way when Disney does bad or something wrong. The fuzziness in the original post comes from 4 back surgeries, oxycontin and a morphine pump that is implanted in me. Sometimes, I don't type what I think. Hence, why my wife and I are not at WDW with our college age son who lives in GA and goes to school in NC but was in Ocala when I started this thread. All I was trying to do was make his life easier by calling MS for clarification and all they did was not do their job properly and aggravate.

First off, sorry you are in pain and suffering.

Second, so glad you got it worked out:banana: and your son can get the discount he is entitled to.

Third, please don't let people on these threads add to any more of your frustration. Everyone has their own set of values/rule following limits. Some love to follow the rules to the itsy bitsy letter to a fault. And I get that some DVC'er are crazy about the rules! But most of us are really just trying to help you out and that is what I think these boards are for. It was clear you were upset from your first post, and I personally think you were completely justified. It is frustrating when common sense doesn't prevail.

Fourth I HOPE YOU STAY WITH DVC! But good luck in deciding. I think in this case it was a matter of bad information from a uniformed representative.

Hope your recovery goes swiftly!:goodvibes

dmoore22
03-15-2010, 03:18 PM
Most folks on this board have made a large financial and emotional investment in Disney and DVC. Criticizing Disney indirectly criticizes their (our)decision to be members. I think it's a natural response to get a little defensive. Plus, unfortunately we hear more and more of people trying to abuse the system, . . .

This kind of reminds me of an old quote from that fellow called Anonymous, "My country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, When wrong to be put right." I feel the same way about Disney. I love my DVC and the Disney/Pixar Company but I will let them know about my concerns. As a Disney shareholder I joined Roy Disney's de facto organization that opposed many of Michael Eisner's moves such as shutting down the animation division, alienating Pixar CEO Steve Jobs and letting go Imagineers (who, by the way, were picked up by Universal Orlando). I still have my "Save Disney" bumper sticker from those days not so long ago.

tjkraz
03-15-2010, 03:19 PM
The Executive Team agent told me the staff was wrong. They have guidelines to deal with such events and it such have been handled better. T One member service agent told me that no one but the actual member would receive the discount no kids, no associates.....no one but the actual deed member. That was a incorrect statement that I read the actual rule back to the agent from the DVC member website and she told that I was still wrong.

Obviously those living in the same household are eligible and if MS told you otherwise that was certainly incorrect.

However, I will still take a "wait and see" approach as to whether your conversation has any long-lasting impact. The written rules have been in place for more than 5 years now and they don't make any allowances for eligible children who visit without a parent being present. And I've heard multiple claims of the people receiving the same answer that you initially did.

I suppose it's possible that MS has been ignoring executive direction for several years now...but I'm still a little skeptical about that one.

If Disney would be reasonable and found a way that we can confirm that our family members are who we say they are then I would not have to spend $ 400 to receive a discount.

True enough but 2 points:

1. Just because Disney "CAN" do something doesn't always mean that they will. Some will argue that they should allow late check-outs...but they don't. Some will argue that we should be allowed to put as many guests as we wish into a single villa...but Disney still has posted occupancy rules.

Boundaries have to be set somewhere. I don't think anyone claimed that you were trying to cheat the system, but the rule is what it is and those who can't comply will not receive the discount.

2. Regarding putting your son on the deed, the AP discount will only get him by as long as he is living in your household. So you're living on borrowed time in that respect anyway. If you were to add him to the deed, not only would he be eligible for the discount but also eligible relatives of his own (spouse, children.) Food for thought...


The fact is WDW should provide DVC members the same discount it gives someone who does nothing but live in FL.

Again, another philosophical discussion. Disney can structure the rules any way they wish so you're probably not going to get much satisfaction expecting that they "should" choose one path or another.

DVC has been around for nearly 20 years now and members have never been eligible for FL resident discounts. I wouldn't expect that to change anytime soon.

bumbershoot
03-15-2010, 04:02 PM
This is all stated in the rules quite clearly. It shouldn't have been a surprise.

I'm only an Associate member, as for whatever reason, we decided to not put me on as a full member. That means that if I want to get the DVC discount on an AP, my husband has to be there with me. I know it, I accept it! And I'm not surprised by it.

They have rules, the rules are stated clearly.


Oh drat, it looks like in the second two pages, someone allowed you to skirt the rules.

snowbunny
03-15-2010, 04:20 PM
Most folks on this board have made a large financial and emotional investment in Disney and DVC. Criticizing Disney indirectly criticizes their (our)decision to be members. I think it's a natural response to get a little defensive.

It's natural but it's extremely tiresome as well. The only topics that seem to be considered "OK" to criticize DVC are if they change the flooring in Old Key West or attempt to get their reservation system into the 21st century :rolleyes1

PBB
03-15-2010, 04:27 PM
Oh drat, it looks like in the second two pages, someone allowed you to skirt the rules.

There was no skirting the rules.......The executive team at DVC told me that Member Services was incorrect in stating several things.

1. I was told ONLY the member received the discount. This is not the case.

2. I was told that college age students could not receive the discount. Again, not true. Disney allows college students who live at home and has the same address as the member to enjoy a DVC member discount without the member being present.

So, I was well within the rules as interpreted by Disney Management. In fact, I just hung up with my son who was in front of the Castle watching a show. I am glad I allowed Disney Management to correct the mistake of the personnel at member services.

I hope my disagreement with DVC will allow other families whose Son's and Daughters visit WDW the opportunity to save some money and enjoy the parks with some cash in their pocket. :rotfl2::rotfl2:

PBB
03-15-2010, 04:31 PM
DVC has been around for nearly 20 years now and members have never been eligible for FL resident discounts. I wouldn't expect that to change anytime soon.

The DVC buying power has gotten pretty big. I believe it is well over 100,000 members strong. I can promise you this buying block is stronger than any weekend or convention. If they want to be. Even a small percentage of members expressing their concerns can create changes.

crisi
03-15-2010, 04:53 PM
2. Regarding putting your son on the deed, the AP discount will only get him by as long as he is living in your household. So you're living on borrowed time in that respect anyway. If you were to add him to the deed, not only would he be eligible for the discount but also eligible relatives of his own (spouse, children.) Food for thought...


Though as some people have posted in the past, that can have its downside if your kid divorces his spouse or goes bankrupt - then YOUR DVC is part of THEIR assets (depending on your state law, I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV). Its risk for an AP discount that may not exist long term.

tjkraz
03-15-2010, 04:59 PM
It's natural but it's extremely tiresome as well. The only topics that seem to be considered "OK" to criticize DVC are if they change the flooring in Old Key West or attempt to get their reservation system into the 21st century :rolleyes1

In my experiences there has always been room for thoughtful discussion. Not all posters share the same interpretations, opinions or sensibilities.

No matter what the topic of discussion may be, there are usually folks on both sides of the aisle. Seems like there should be room for tolerance from all. I'm not sure why you would expect universal condemnation or praise on ANY single topic.

1. I was told ONLY the member received the discount. This is not the case.

2. I was told that college age students could not receive the discount. Again, not true. Disney allows college students who live at home and has the same address as the member to enjoy a DVC member discount without the member being present.


You are correct--both of those statements are in error.

However the redemption rules state that the Member must be present with his DVC Member ID and photo ID in order for an eligible child to receive the discounted ticket or redeem a voucher.

The DVC buying power has gotten pretty big. I believe it is well over 100,000 members strong. I can promise you this buying block is stronger than any weekend or convention. If they want to be. Even a small percentage of members expressing their concerns can create changes.

The dynamics are quite a bit different--Disney has to continually compete for convention business and business from FL residents while DVC is pretty much a captive market.

Many people suggest that they should be owed perks as a "thank you" from Disney...but few perks actually work in that manner. Disney offers discounted park admission to FL residents to keep them coming into the parks and spending dollars elsewhere. The alternative is to lose that business to Universal, Sea World, Busch Gardens, etc.

Convention groups are offered some special incentives (ticket packages, etc.) because Disney stands to make quite a bit on the entire block of business (meeting rooms rented, hotel rooms booked, food and beverage, some park tickets.)

For the most part, DVC members are just run-of-the-mill park guests who happen to have spent $20K to pre-pay for their vacations.

There's really no business reason to do it. Are people selling their contracts--or deciding not to buy--simply because DVC doesn't offer a blanket 10% discount at all restaurants? Are people buying Marriott instead of DVC because Disney doesn't make us eligible for FL resident passes?

For every dollar that Disney would sacrifice in terms of a DVC member discount, they need to make up that discount elsewhere. I don't think the numbers add up.

My suspicion is that most people who claim a 10% merchandise or dining discount is some sort of DVC "tipping point" (keep vs. sell) actually have other issues. The discount wouldn't have any impact on their mindset, while costing Disney millions of dollars in the long run.

dmoore22
03-15-2010, 05:05 PM
There was no skirting the rules.......The executive team at DVC told me that Member Services was incorrect in stating several things.

1. I was told ONLY the member received the discount. This is not the case.

2. I was told that college age students could not receive the discount. Again, not true. Disney allows college students who live at home and has the same address as the member to enjoy a DVC member discount without the member being present.

So, I was well within the rules as interpreted by Disney Management. In fact, I just hung up with my son who was in front of the Castle watching a show. I am glad I allowed Disney Management to correct the mistake of the personnel at member services.

I hope my disagreement with DVC will allow other families whose Son's and Daughters visit WDW the opportunity to save some money and enjoy the parks with some cash in their pocket. :rotfl2::rotfl2:

Please, don't take this the wrong way. Your only mistake, from my point of view, was venting your frustration on this board. You did the right thing in working your way through MS to get to the bottom of this issue. I did not catch anything in your posts suggesting that you were attempting to circumvent the "rules." It appears to me that all your requests where well within the parameters of the DVC Members Benefits Guide (page 6). The good news for us is that you gave us all a wake call as to issues DVC is experiencing (Good help is hard to find). This could have happened to any of us. As a result of your intervention it will be less likely to happen to another DVC member in the future. You deserve our thanks.

PS. I can totally empathize with you. I had back surgery about 8 years back and am still dealing with the side effects. Better living through chemistry? I wish.

cpdwiz
03-15-2010, 05:20 PM
How is protecting you ? Please.......It does not take away anything from anyone.

My son is a college student whose permanent address is our home. He lives here 4 months a year and is away at school for 8 months. He can not be a resident of the State he goes to school in. His legal residence is at our house. We take him off as a dependent on our taxes as well. What is next ? Do I need to submit a DNA sample to prove he is my son to appease WDW ticketing ? Please......I can't believe the stupidity some times.......

Associate members are not eligible either for a discount on their own. Perhaps, you should have to register your family members with DVC so they know who is part of your family and who is not.

I am sorry I can't be with him......My morphine pump that is implanted in my spinal canal does not work well with rollercoasters and ECV's.

Isnt there an age limit to "children" for DVC stuff??

cpdwiz
03-15-2010, 05:25 PM
Who is eligible to receive the Annual Pass discount?
Disney Vacation Club Members receive a discount on the Pass for themselves and their immediate family residing in the same household only. At the time of purchase or redemption, your Disney Vacation Club Member ID Card must be provided and ALL ADULTS must present a valid driver's license or state identification card showing they reside in the same household.

So, have him show his ID, and YOUR Dvc card for an annual pass....I dont read where YOU have to physically be there......

cpdwiz
03-15-2010, 05:27 PM
It appears I was correct.

I just got off the phone from a member of the Executive Team with DVC. Disney guidelines allow for children of members who are High School/College age that are not with the Parent/Member to receive the discount. This is not uncommon and has been done before.

He was very surprised that 2 member service agents quoted the rules incorrectly to me and he is going to speak with member service manager about her comments as well. He stated that as long as the address on the ID is the same as the member they would accept that as proof. In fact, that the reservation with our son's name and our name and address on it should have been enough for guest services as long as his ID matched up with this information.

He wrote up a Guest Service Ticket and provided me the number to give my son for any guest service agent to pull and provide him a DVC Annual Pass.

It appears that Member Service agents and Managers needs some more training........It is a shame that they were more concerned about arguing than actually putting me on hold and looking up the guidelines that provided me the perk that I was actually due our family.

It is a shame that we can not critique DVC here without being attacked for our criticism. DVC is not beyond making a mistake and neither am I but there has to be some consideration each other.

I do not know what other information I could have provide the Member Service Agents other than what I provided. Son going down on our points (so a disney representative checks his license upon check in), the reservation is in his name using our points (we approved of him using our membership) and a legal Identification card that is over 4 years old shows his legal address to be the same as our membership. The last name, the address and the reservation should have been enough. I asked the DVC what more could I have provided the agent to succeed ? Nothing......was his comment.

So at the end of the day.....No one in my family is cheating anything out of anyone. We got the "perk" that was due us.

I dont think you were attacked...I think the way you presented it was somewhat hostile....I understand your frustration and glad it worked out.

NewJerseyDVCMembers
03-15-2010, 06:04 PM
The obvious problem here is the child. He has cost you and your spouse tens-of-thousands over the years. Now he is blowing off his highly paid education to take trips to Walt Disney World rather than study.

My suggestion is to teach him the value of your hard work by spending his future inheritance on more DVC points.

Just my two-cents.

tjkraz
03-15-2010, 06:16 PM
It appears to me that all your requests where well within the parameters of the DVC Members Benefits Guide (page 6).

At risk of sounding like a broken record (I know, too late), I have to disagree to a point.

I'll preface my remarks by saying I'm very glad OP got this worked out. Whomever he spoke with opened a guest relations ticket so the pass will probably be forced through without incident. Frankly the first time I heard that there was no mechanism in place for children to buy the AP without a parent present, I was very surprised.

That said, the rules you quoted do specifically state that the Member has to be present:

"Members must present their DVC Member ID Card..."

Based upon what I have read, Member Services has been very consistent in saying that an eligible child cannot obtain the discounted pass without the presence of the Member parent.

It's one thing to be eligible for a certain perk or benefit but you still need to follow the guidelines put in place if you want to take advantage of the perk.

Take DME for example. Every guest staying at a Walt Disney World resort is eligible for DME, but you still need to follow the posted rules if you expect to get to the airport. If Disney instructs you to be at your resort 3 hours before your flight, you'd better not expect that DME bus to pick you up outside the Magic Kingdom 90 minutes before the plane leaves.

A theme park ticket makes guests eligible to use the FastPass system, but there are rules which dictate how many FPs can be obtained at a time and how those FPs can be redeemed.

Similarly, the AP perk states that children living in the same household are eligible, but it also states that a Member must be present with his/her Member card and photo ID in order to buy the discounted pass.

DME isn't going to pick you up at the MK, the FastPass machines aren't going to let you grab a dozen FPs for Toy Story Mania, and (unless they relax the rules) use of the AP perk requires the presence of a deeded DVC owner with a Member card and photo ID.

PBB
03-15-2010, 06:42 PM
This is what was posted at www.disneyvacationclub.com. regarding the DVC annual pass. This was posted in the Members Only section as cpdwiz stated.........

Who is eligible to receive the Annual Pass discount?

Disney Vacation Club Members receive a discount on the Pass for themselves and their immediate family residing in the same household only. At the time of purchase or redemption, your Disney Vacation Club Member ID Card must be provided and ALL ADULTS must present a valid driver's license or state identification card showing they reside in the same household.

Who is defined as "immediate family"?

"Immediate family" is defined by Walt Disney World Resort for discount purposes as noted below: Spouse/Registered Domestic Partner, Parent/Step Parent, Mother-In-Law/Father-In-Law, Child/Step Child, Brother/Stepbrother, Sister/Stepsister, Brother-In-Law/Sister-In-Law, Grandparent, and Grandchild.

This answers the age question.......They can be any age as long as they reside at the resident. No age cap......


Regarding the attack comment.......

When people cheer or are happy that you are upset you are not treated right. I find this type of response as doing nothing but throwing gas on the fire. Did this person add to the thread by stating:

I don't understand why you are having such a fit about DVC not wanting to bend the rules specifically for your situation. I am happy they are sticking to their guns on this one. If your son's name is not on the account, he is not a DVC member even though he has been able to benefit from your membership for the past 12 years. He is not due anything here


I am having a fit because I was right and DVC was wrong. Common Sense tells that it is ridiculous not to offer a child whole lives in the membership household the proper discount that he deserved. When some derives being happy at someone's frustration. That is kind of sad. To state, that my son was not due anything was flat out wrong.........So, I took offense to the post above. Nothing positive was said and just inflamed the situation. I guess I should ignored the poster........I don't like people that are happy when someone is troubled or upset by something.

This what I mean by attacked................Sometimes people should think if they are lending anything constructive to the conversation.

mac_tlc
03-15-2010, 06:48 PM
Just to add to the discussion:

My daughter was at WDW in January. My wife and I were not with her, we were 1200 miles away. She wanted to upgrade a one-day ticket to a DVC annual pass. She was at the Animal Kingdom. She went to Guest Services, called me to get our DVC member number, gave it to the agent, produced her drivers license that shows she lives at our address. .. Got the DVC AP rate... took 10 minutes, tops.

mac_tlc

Muushka
03-15-2010, 07:08 PM
PBB, I see your post count is low. Take it from someone who has gotten into it with some on these boards.

You won't win. :sad2:

PBB
03-15-2010, 07:09 PM
Just to add to the discussion:

My daughter was at WDW in January. My wife and I were not with her, we were 1200 miles away. She wanted to upgrade a one-day ticket to a DVC annual pass. She was at the Animal Kingdom. She went to Guest Services, called me to get our DVC member number, gave it to the agent, produced her drivers license that shows she lives at our address. .. Got the DVC AP rate... took 10 minutes, tops.

mac_tlc


Nice.....A reasonable accommodation for a guest. I am glad they were able to take care of your daughter.

wulfekamp
03-15-2010, 07:18 PM
These things happen. We have had our share of problems on trips to Disney. You have to let it go. I am not going to let this problem ruin my vacation. I repeat this over and over. Problems ARE going to happen its how you let it effect you that you control. We have had rude cast members, Disney lost our tickets to the chistmas party. I let roll off my back. I am not about to let some rude cast member ruin my only vacation for the year. I will have a great time just to spit them. Don't let this beat you. Go and have fun that will teach them.

jade1
03-15-2010, 07:36 PM
Just to add to the discussion:

My daughter was at WDW in January. My wife and I were not with her, we were 1200 miles away. She wanted to upgrade a one-day ticket to a DVC annual pass. She was at the Animal Kingdom. She went to Guest Services, called me to get our DVC member number, gave it to the agent, produced her drivers license that shows she lives at our address. .. Got the DVC AP rate... took 10 minutes, tops.

mac_tlc

Gald all has worked out.

Cmbar
03-15-2010, 07:40 PM
PBB, I see your post count is low. Take it from someone who has gotten into it with some on these boards.

You won't win. :sad2:

:lmao: Oh boy is that true! I've been on the boards 10 plus years and boy you can't argue with some folks. Especially DVC'ers. They are tough!

Be1021
03-15-2010, 07:55 PM
popcorn::

BWV Dreamin
03-15-2010, 08:01 PM
PBB, I see your post count is low. Take it from someone who has gotten into it with some on these boards.

You won't win. :sad2:

That's why I keep my flame suit ready!! Those flames come at ya fast and furious!;)

kent285
03-15-2010, 08:07 PM
:lmao: Oh boy is that true! I've been on the boards 10 plus years and boy you can't argue with some folks. Especially DVC'ers. They are tough!
Yep, about 3 years back I had to enter the Witness Protection program..;)

mopee3
03-15-2010, 08:14 PM
popcorn::

Maybe while I am eating my popcorn popcorn::someone can start up a thread titled" Lets Get Rid Of ALL DVC Perks!!":rotfl2:

Moe

WilsonFlyer
03-15-2010, 09:01 PM
...That rule is there to protect us as members. This way, DVC folks do not purchase annual passes for their "kids" who are not really kids. NOT that this is your case.



And that rule protects me as a member how exactly? I could less than give a crap if every member buys 100 AP's. That's Disney's problem AFAIC.

WilsonFlyer
03-15-2010, 09:24 PM
Who is eligible to receive the Annual Pass discount?
Disney Vacation Club Members receive a discount on the Pass for themselves and their immediate family residing in the same household only. At the time of purchase or redemption, your Disney Vacation Club Member ID Card must be provided and ALL ADULTS must present a valid driver's license or state identification card showing they reside in the same household.

So, have him show his ID, and YOUR Dvc card for an annual pass....I dont read where YOU have to physically be there......

That's the way I interpret that too. What did I miss for Christ's sake?

DisneyTravelers2008
03-15-2010, 09:38 PM
I love my DVC membership , but , yes, sometimes they frustrate me...Sorry this did not work out better for you. Hope your son has fun anyway...last year we booked a 3 BR villa and invited 2 other families to join us. Our family of 4 wanted the dining plan and our friends did not. So it became an issue for me b/c wecould not add the DP to our ressie w/out our friends adding it too...I kind of felt like they were "forced" to add it b/c we did. Anyway, it all worked out and we ALL got the DP and everyone was happy in the end. We decided not to focus on it too much and just enjoy ourselves. Like I said before , I hope he has fun. Too bad you guys had to learn this little quirky rule the hard way :(
Kind of like us with the DP last year...:confused3 ...people on this board get too worked up sometimes...chill out folks :)

tjkraz
03-15-2010, 09:39 PM
And that rule protects me as a member how exactly? I could less than give a crap if every member buys 100 AP's. That's Disney's problem AFAIC.

I suspect the idea is that if the perk is abused, it ain't gonna stick around. Disney sacrifices $100-125 for every AP purchased so I would expect them to be somewhat rigid in how the perk is administered.

That's the way I interpret that too. What did I miss for Christ's sake?

The wording is a bit different in the Member Benefits Guide as quoted by a previous poster:

"WDW Admission Media may be purchased by calling Member Services or by going to Guest Relations at the Magic Kingdom Park, Epcot, Disney’s Hollywood Studios, and Disney’s Animal Kingdom Theme Park or Downtown Disney area. New WDW Admission Media also can be purchased at dvcmember.com. At time of purchase or certificate redemption (for purchases through Member Services or online), Members must present their DVC Member ID Card, and if applicable, proof of Florida residency, and all adults (ages 18 and up) must present a valid driver’s license or state identification card showing they reside in the same household."

As I previously stated, the idea is that the member must be present at the time of purchase to display the ID card and a photo ID. All other adults must provide photo ID which has the same address as the member. That's basically how Disney decided to connect the dots and determine that individuals are eligible for the discount.

OP acknowledged in the first post that he was ultimately told that the child was eligible but that his wife would have to be present in order to get the discount. I know of other people in this same situation who made inquiries of Member Services and were told the same thing--a member needed to be present even if it was an eligible dependent buying the pass. It's good to hear (and not surprising) that some ticket agents are a bit more lenient in verifying that identity. But officially MS appears to be sticking to the same party line.

Showing the blue member ID without the member present is pretty meaningless. If last names are different, one could simply claim to be a step-child or some other eligible group. If Disney allowed that, I could easily see renters willing to loan-out their ID for a cut of the AP savings. :confused3

La2kw
03-15-2010, 10:23 PM
Wow, you're ready to sell because your son couldn't get a discount? It would take me a lot more than that considering one should never become a member for the perks.

CarolAnnC
03-15-2010, 10:36 PM
There was a case before where a college age person actually had obtained a valid driver's license from the state where they resided at college. That would then preclude them from still being a legal resident in their parent's home.

So as long as they still have a valid driver's license with the state and address of the parents, they should be good to go with a discounted DVC AP.

DVCPAT
03-15-2010, 11:14 PM
Wow, you're ready to sell because your son couldn't get a discount? It would take me a lot more than that considering one should never become a member for the perks.

Whats really frustrating is trying to take advantage of a valid perk and the CM doesn’t have a clue what you’re talking about. You then go to guest relations and they don’t have a clue. You then wonder if you misread the perk and go back to your room and double check the perk listing. You find that you were correct and take the Disney printed perk list back to guest relations only to have the CM get an attitude. Disney needs to retrain employees like they did 10 years ago.

Tara
03-15-2010, 11:41 PM
Wow, you're ready to sell because your son couldn't get a discount? It would take me a lot more than that considering one should never become a member for the perks.

I don't think it's just that - the OP started another post about loss of perks.

PBB
03-16-2010, 01:02 AM
I don't think it's just that - the OP started another post about loss of perks.

Yes, I am not happy with DVC. We have had some great vacations at DVC in the past. We primarily use the points at HH or VB. WDW has been been value imagineered to death. On another board a columnist, Kevin Yee, uses the term "declining by degrees". Which means they slowly start to take away things a little at a time.

This past week it was taking away the valet parking at the DVC resorts that was complimentary. I guess I won't be staying at BW anytime soon. Disney was a quality organization that used to design and build a quality product. Whether it was theme park, hotel, parade or ice cream cart.

They are no longer a innovative company. They react to the market and competition. Example, lets build MGM to compete with Universal, lets build Animal Kingdom to compete with Busch Gardens. They did not build these parks for innovation. They built them to take away the market share of the competitors. They used to build grand hotels.....Contemporary, Poly, GF and then they went to Coronado springs or the All Stars. Heck, they can't come up with original movies anymore. They have to do bad remakes of Disney Classics.

Now a days they are struggling to keep the park clean and maintained. They close the parks early to accommodate a convention or to charge another fee to go late to the park and call it special.

What happened to the good restaurants ? Now, the menu of chicken, ribs and flank steak can be had at I bet 8 different restaurants. It is all institutionalized and blah.....but I should pay $ 35 to have breakfast with Pluto and that makes it better. Heck, they can't even figure out how to get rid of that crappy tasting coffee.

They can pay golden parachutes to a few executives for $ 100's of million dollars for severance package because a egomaniac ran the company. Eisner was not the reason Disney was successful it was Frank Wells that steadied the company. Getting rid of Katzenburg who had great talent and loved what he was doing because Eisner could not give up power. There hasn't been a good animated film since Katzenburg left. Pixar is what Disney should be or should have been.

Today was the straw that broke the camels back for me......We pay for Member Services and 3 people could not get a simple question answered properly. All I did was call DVC to get information to provide my son so he could get his ticket/passport without a hassle. I knew it was going to be a hassle and I did not want him wasting his short trip trying to figure it out on his own. At the end of the day, he was entitled to the passport because he is our son and he lives with us. We did not give him our card.....oops our bad but the member could easily been obtained by myself or member services. A knowledgeable would have said tell him to bring the reservation of his DVC stay and that has the number or give him the number to give to the agent. Another poster's daughter did this and it was reasonable.

The negative part of DVC is Disney themselves. The same management styles will be implemented at DVC and it will get very bad.

Our first stay at DVC was at OKW in our home resort in 98. We left Atlanta and drove all night. We were going to get a cheap hotel in Ocala and go to WDW the next day. I got a second wind and drove all the way to WDW. We pulled into OKW to see how much they would charge cash for the night. It was 3 a.m. and the desk agent said technically you are here on the day you are scheduled to check into the unit so we will just do an early check in. He gave me two keys. I asked him about the charging and such and he told the computer was processing. Just go to bed and come back in the morning. What a truly pleasant surprise that was. It cost DVC nothing and it took nothing away from anyone. The clerk was just being hospitable and caring. This would never happen today because of bad training and standard operating procedures that would not allow a manager to make decision like this. That clerk sold me more on DVC than any my sales associate ever did.

I was glad to see Eisner go.....but Disney hired another Eisner to replace him. What was Iger before ??? He ran a cable company.....They have great customer service don't they ?? That was the type of experience I had today...........

TisBit
03-16-2010, 06:52 AM
They are no longer a innovative company. They react to the market and competition.

Of course they do, they would go out of business otherwise.


They can pay golden parachutes to a few executives for $ 100's of million dollars for severance package because a egomaniac ran the company.

This is corporate america and it won't change, it is capitalism at its finest. If you want to recruit the top talent to be your CEO you better come with your wallet out, or they will go somewhere else.


Today was the straw that broke the camels back for me......We pay for Member Services and 3 people could not get a simple question answered properly.

Unfortunately, they did answer correctly, just not what you wanted. Now, don't get me wrong, I wish they could have helped you out and maybe it would have gone a long way to make your day better, but your issues run much deeper than this one instance and I doubt it would have changed your perceptions. You would have just been frustrated with something else down the line.

There are a lot of valid points made in your post, but it is nothing new. I remember going to WDW as a kid and my parents talking about how Roy was destroying it and Walt wouldn't be happy. Disney, along with the rest of the world are trying to survive and that means cut backs, declining service is everywhere and Disney is not immune.

gkrykewy
03-16-2010, 08:51 AM
Our first stay at DVC was at OKW in our home resort in 98. We left Atlanta and drove all night. We were going to get a cheap hotel in Ocala and go to WDW the next day. I got a second wind and drove all the way to WDW. We pulled into OKW to see how much they would charge cash for the night. It was 3 a.m. and the desk agent said technically you are here on the day you are scheduled to check into the unit so we will just do an early check in. He gave me two keys. I asked him about the charging and such and he told the computer was processing. Just go to bed and come back in the morning. What a truly pleasant surprise that was. It cost DVC nothing and it took nothing away from anyone. The clerk was just being hospitable and caring. This would never happen today because of bad training and standard operating procedures that would not allow a manager to make decision like this. That clerk sold me more on DVC than any my sales associate ever did.

I don't agree with most of your complaints - I find WDW to be just as good as it ever was.... but that is a super cool story :thumbsup2

Crystal_27
03-16-2010, 09:04 AM
The clerk was just being hospitable and caring. This would never happen today because of bad training and standard operating procedures that would not allow a manager to make decision like this. That clerk sold me more on DVC than any my sales associate ever did.

......

I think that statement is painting DVC with a pretty broad brush. I'm a fairly new DVC member but I have witnessed an incredible amount of kindness and accommodation by CMs...just because. It has nothing to do with training, it has to do with whether someone (i) is able to do something; and (ii) whether they care enough to do so. The first one is always a biggie because a CM could *want* to do something for you all day long but just not be able to. That doesn't mean the magic is gone, it just means that sometimes stuff just doesn't turn out the way we want to. In your case, the CM (and her boss) made a mistake about a perk - - it happens. That doesn't mean that the magic of Disney is dead; it means that people are still fallible.

You know, it always amazes me how people sing Disney's praises when they receive an unexpected upgrade or a free something or other, but then turn around in the next breath and diss Disney for some perceived slight when they don't receive something they feel they are entitled to (and DVC members feel waaayyy more entitled than the regular guests...it's just part of the initiation process - LOLOLOL).

OP, it sounds like you've been dissatisifed with DVC for a while and that this "slight" about the AP was the final straw. If that is the case, you should sell. If Disney 'aint doing it for you, it's just not worth hanging onto your membership. DVC should be something associated with fun, not headaches and resentment. Either way, I'm so glad that everything worked out, and I wish you the best of luck! :goodvibes

PBB
03-16-2010, 09:29 AM
Unfortunately, they did answer correctly, just not what you wanted. Now, don't get me wrong, I wish they could have helped you out and maybe it would have gone a long way to make your day better, but your issues run much deeper than this one instance and I doubt it would have changed your perceptions. You would have just been frustrated with something else down the line.

I guess you did not read the entire thread. It DID work out for us. My son got his DVC annual pass. Member Services did not quote the rules correctly to me. It is a shame that did not happen. I am unsure if it was training or incompetence on their part. The disturbing part is the manager on duty at MS did not know the rules. Perhaps, they should have put me on hold and looked it up instead of shooting from the hip. The decision to purchase the DVC pass came up when he was driving on the way to WDW. We did not give him the card. Management should be able to view a situation, adjust and make reasonable accommodations if they can.

BTW, I would not have been irritated had they quoted the rules properly to me. I would have asked for a waiver about the card or ask if they would accept a copy of the card via fax. If not, I would have spoken to management.

This is corporate america and it won't change, it is capitalism at its finest. If you want to recruit the top talent to be your CEO you better come with your wallet out, or they will go somewhere else.

Shame on Eisner for wasting the stockholders money on such parachutes. Michael Ovitz was on the chopping block the day after he was hired. Within a year, he was gone and it cost $ 100 million dollars and he did nothing. Katzenberg deserved his package because he made billions for the company and it was in his contract. The shame here is that Disney lost his talents because of one man's ego (Eisner).

Chuck S
03-16-2010, 09:38 AM
A reminder that the topics on the DVC forums need to remain DVC specific. General rants about Michael Eisner, MGM Studios, and Disney corporate operations do not meet that criteria. Please return this thread to DVC related discussions.

OP, did you discuss the possibility of selling your DVC last night? Truly, if I felt that way about the entire operation of Disney, I'd be selling.

Times change, businesses change with those times or cease to exist. We need to accept those changes or move on to other pastures. When you see relatively large corporations that we all remember from our childhood years cease operations or be gobbled up by other corporations, it is understandable that Disney is trying to change with the times.

Unocal76, Maytag & AT&T are just a few of the major players that have been swallowed up or ceased to exist...none of them are around anymore in their original form. Don't buy DVC thinking that Disney will remain static for 50 years.

BEASLYBOO
03-16-2010, 09:43 AM
IMO, for what it's worth, our society is no longer service oriented. From Health insurance to banking to DVC etc., it's no longer "the customer's always right", where people went that step beyond for the customer/consumer. Now the objective is to give away as little as possible, to make people fight for what should be theirs. It's not just Disney/DVC, your health insurance co. dictates to your doctor whether you need treatment or not, and /or what kind of meds you should take.

PBB, your experience was unpleasant and frustrating, and as you've just proven, sometimes it takes many calls, many frustrating conversations that too often get loud and ugly just to finally attain a fair resolution. The 1st assumption by anyone shouldn't always be that (we) want to cheat the system, and/or want to get something for nothing. Now, many of us are so surprised or completely taken off guard when MS or a Ser. Rep goes out of their way or goes that extra length to make something happen, this used to be the norm. It's even one of the questions on the Disney suvery which is sent to you after a stay. I've never been able to answer yes to that question.

You've also found out that you need full body armor when complaining about anything on these boards because the hits are going to come fast and hard! :laughing: I'm happy it's resolved. :)

cpdwiz
03-16-2010, 01:23 PM
This is what was posted at www.disneyvacationclub.com. regarding the DVC annual pass. This was posted in the Members Only section as cpdwiz stated.........

Who is eligible to receive the Annual Pass discount?

Disney Vacation Club Members receive a discount on the Pass for themselves and their immediate family residing in the same household only. At the time of purchase or redemption, your Disney Vacation Club Member ID Card must be provided and ALL ADULTS must present a valid driver's license or state identification card showing they reside in the same household.

Who is defined as "immediate family"?

"Immediate family" is defined by Walt Disney World Resort for discount purposes as noted below: Spouse/Registered Domestic Partner, Parent/Step Parent, Mother-In-Law/Father-In-Law, Child/Step Child, Brother/Stepbrother, Sister/Stepsister, Brother-In-Law/Sister-In-Law, Grandparent, and Grandchild.

This answers the age question.......They can be any age as long as they reside at the resident. No age cap......


Regarding the attack comment.......

When people cheer or are happy that you are upset you are not treated right. I find this type of response as doing nothing but throwing gas on the fire. Did this person add to the thread by stating:

I don't understand why you are having such a fit about DVC not wanting to bend the rules specifically for your situation. I am happy they are sticking to their guns on this one. If your son's name is not on the account, he is not a DVC member even though he has been able to benefit from your membership for the past 12 years. He is not due anything here


I am having a fit because I was right and DVC was wrong. Common Sense tells that it is ridiculous not to offer a child whole lives in the membership household the proper discount that he deserved. When some derives being happy at someone's frustration. That is kind of sad. To state, that my son was not due anything was flat out wrong.........So, I took offense to the post above. Nothing positive was said and just inflamed the situation. I guess I should ignored the poster........I don't like people that are happy when someone is troubled or upset by something.

This what I mean by attacked................Sometimes people should think if they are lending anything constructive to the conversation.

For the purpose of CHILD SUPPORT in a divorce/custody situation, a child is no longer eligible if they live at school. Now, thats in Mass...Maybe Disney follows that reasoning?

I guess my whole point is, you came on here all fired up about DVC and how the magic is gone, BEFORE you actually went through contacting a higher up who handled it in minutes for you. You categorized all of Disney as being no longer fun, magical or worth it because of this one incident...And, if you post an opinion on here, expect others to react with their feelings. Take me, I don't think I could ever say a bad word about Disney,and would probably defend them for life. But, thats me.

anyways, hope your son is having fun!

cpdwiz
03-16-2010, 01:27 PM
And that rule protects me as a member how exactly? I could less than give a crap if every member buys 100 AP's. That's Disney's problem AFAIC.

Imagine the DVC family that has 37 children all buying season passes, and 15 grown ups?

And, if you see that much of a huge increase in buying, it may go away and that would be a bad thing.

cpdwiz
03-16-2010, 01:40 PM
Yes, I am not happy with DVC. We have had some great vacations at DVC in the past. We primarily use the points at HH or VB. WDW has been been value imagineered to death. On another board a columnist, Kevin Yee, uses the term "declining by degrees". Which means they slowly start to take away things a little at a time.

This past week it was taking away the valet parking at the DVC resorts that was complimentary. I guess I won't be staying at BW anytime soon. Disney was a quality organization that used to design and build a quality product. Whether it was theme park, hotel, parade or ice cream cart.

They are no longer a innovative company. They react to the market and competition. Example, lets build MGM to compete with Universal, lets build Animal Kingdom to compete with Busch Gardens. They did not build these parks for innovation. They built them to take away the market share of the competitors. They used to build grand hotels.....Contemporary, Poly, GF and then they went to Coronado springs or the All Stars. Heck, they can't come up with original movies anymore. They have to do bad remakes of Disney Classics.

Now a days they are struggling to keep the park clean and maintained. They close the parks early to accommodate a convention or to charge another fee to go late to the park and call it special.

What happened to the good restaurants ? Now, the menu of chicken, ribs and flank steak can be had at I bet 8 different restaurants. It is all institutionalized and blah.....but I should pay $ 35 to have breakfast with Pluto and that makes it better. Heck, they can't even figure out how to get rid of that crappy tasting coffee.

They can pay golden parachutes to a few executives for $ 100's of million dollars for severance package because a egomaniac ran the company. Eisner was not the reason Disney was successful it was Frank Wells that steadied the company. Getting rid of Katzenburg who had great talent and loved what he was doing because Eisner could not give up power. There hasn't been a good animated film since Katzenburg left. Pixar is what Disney should be or should have been.

Today was the straw that broke the camels back for me......We pay for Member Services and 3 people could not get a simple question answered properly. All I did was call DVC to get information to provide my son so he could get his ticket/passport without a hassle. I knew it was going to be a hassle and I did not want him wasting his short trip trying to figure it out on his own. At the end of the day, he was entitled to the passport because he is our son and he lives with us. We did not give him our card.....oops our bad but the member could easily been obtained by myself or member services. A knowledgeable would have said tell him to bring the reservation of his DVC stay and that has the number or give him the number to give to the agent. Another poster's daughter did this and it was reasonable.

The negative part of DVC is Disney themselves. The same management styles will be implemented at DVC and it will get very bad.

Our first stay at DVC was at OKW in our home resort in 98. We left Atlanta and drove all night. We were going to get a cheap hotel in Ocala and go to WDW the next day. I got a second wind and drove all the way to WDW. We pulled into OKW to see how much they would charge cash for the night. It was 3 a.m. and the desk agent said technically you are here on the day you are scheduled to check into the unit so we will just do an early check in. He gave me two keys. I asked him about the charging and such and he told the computer was processing. Just go to bed and come back in the morning. What a truly pleasant surprise that was. It cost DVC nothing and it took nothing away from anyone. The clerk was just being hospitable and caring. This would never happen today because of bad training and standard operating procedures that would not allow a manager to make decision like this. That clerk sold me more on DVC than any my sales associate ever did.

I was glad to see Eisner go.....but Disney hired another Eisner to replace him. What was Iger before ??? He ran a cable company.....They have great customer service don't they ?? That was the type of experience I had today...........

Step away from Disney and just sell. Now, I disagree with just about all of what you said, but, thats my opinion. I have had ONE bad CM, and she was at the checkin at AKV. Other than that, we have been treated fantastically, from gift baskets, to the Manager of SSR sending an employee to DD to get me a pin that was just released, and when it wasn't there, THEY bought it, and fedex'd it to me...Our guide has given the kids hats, cards, magnets...To us, everything has been great. I disagree with the park competition, you cannot compare them.

TagsMissy
03-16-2010, 02:05 PM
There was a case before where a college age person actually had obtained a valid driver's license from the state where they resided at college. That would then preclude them from still being a legal resident in their parent's home.

So as long as they still have a valid driver's license with the state and address of the parents, they should be good to go with a discounted DVC AP.

that's where my confusion was and was my only concern in this case when the OP mentioned his kid had an old DL with their address on it; it seemed that he no longer lived at home -- however the op finally made it clear a page or two in that his kid was away at college but returned home every year. A lot of the issues with this posting wouldn't even have come up I don't think if the Op was clear in the first posting. All is good now from what the Op has said and kudos to them. I certainly know I am famous for THINKING I was clear when I typed something but the problem was I was thinking it and never typed it. :lmao:

PBB
03-16-2010, 02:11 PM
Imagine the DVC family that has 37 children all buying season passes, and 15 grown ups?

And, if you see that much of a huge increase in buying, it may go away and that would be a bad thing.

Disney would just make a reality show out of these people and make a bunch of money.

I would imagine Disney would be happy selling all those passes that is there business. DVC and WDW have a symbiotic relationship. I would imagine the goal of Disney is to have a stabilize base of customers for the park in good and bad economic times.

PBB
03-16-2010, 02:53 PM
Step away from Disney and just sell. Now, I disagree with just about all of what you said, but, thats my opinion. I have had ONE bad CM, and she was at the checkin at AKV. Other than that, we have been treated fantastically, from gift baskets, to the Manager of SSR sending an employee to DD to get me a pin that was just released, and when it wasn't there, THEY bought it, and fedex'd it to me...Our guide has given the kids hats, cards, magnets...To us, everything has been great. I disagree with the park competition, you cannot compare them.

You are still in the honeymoon mode. I am unsure how long you have been going to WDW. I have been going since it opened. I was a chat room host and board moderator about Disney on AOL. I have been a DVC owner for 12 years. I have been involved with Disney in projects at WDW and HK. So, I am feel capable to form an educated opinion of historical decline with Disney.

Interesting how you note that you are happy that they gave you gift baskets and had a castmembers spend DVC money purchasing you a pin and fedexing it to you. I wonder if that was charged to Disney or in the DVC Annual dues that other members had to pay with their money. What happens when DVC stops buying you things ? I wonder how you would feel if you Disney denies your child advertised perks that is due them.

All I wanted was them to give me a perk that was advertised in the Members Only Section of the DVC website. At the time of purchase or redemption, your Disney Vacation Club Member ID Card must be provided and ALL ADULTS must present a valid driver's license or state identification card showing they reside in the same household. Disney accepts the card number over the phone when they are purchased over the phone. So, they are looking for the number and they want a valid (not expired) drivers license. DVC could have said......Could you fax or email a copy of the card ? I would have been glad to do that. They just made up rules that did not match what was written.

Chuck S
03-16-2010, 03:04 PM
Disney accepts the card number over the phone when they are purchased over the phone.

You can not purchase an activated AP over the phone, only a voucher or will call certificate number. You still need to present your membership card and ID when redeeming that voucher or will call for the actual pass.

Oshawa
03-16-2010, 03:11 PM
I also think you should walk away. Yes, we are still in the "honeymoon stage" of our membership also but we very much enjoy our purchase. Have not had any issues with CM's or anyone at DVC. I totally would have handled the situation differently but that is just me. I have been in customere service for years. If all you see is the negative now then it's time to sell. Hope you make the right decision for you and your family but don't make us feel guilty for enjoying our membership.

dmoore22
03-16-2010, 03:29 PM
That said, the rules you quoted do specifically state that the Member has to be present:

"Members must present their DVC Member ID Card..."


Actually that is incorrect. The rules do state "When" and "Who" must "present their DVC Member ID Card..." but does not state "what and how." They do not specifically state that the Member has to be present .There is a very valid reason for Disney and DVD leaving it a rather open-ended statement. On January 17, 1997, the Department of Justice and Walt Disney Co. (Disney) signed an agreement under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) to correct discriminatory practices against individuals with disabilities and to provide equal access to its programs and services. Access is not limited to "physical" access or presence. It can be through the use of current and future technologies . The agreement with the Justice Department further states that "Disney has agreed to continue to evaluate and develop other technologies and methods of providing effective communication" and "In that regard, WDW shall notify the Department every six months as to any changes and developments in the types of auxiliary aids provided until December 1, 2000." It also states "The parties understand that nothing contained in this Agreement limits in any way the Department's ability to enforce the ADA against WDW in the future should it not be in compliance with the ADA." The agreement was last revised April 28, 2008.

Since it is a violation of ADA, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, to ask an individual if they have a disability, it is in the best interest of the company, any company with more than 15 employees, to have general guidelines that will not appear to be limiting access to its programs and services. An individual with a disability can volunteer information for the purposes of, for example, an interpreter or auxiliary aids. The company can have a general nondiscrimination statement to the general public to the effect that if you have any special needs you should contact a specific number/person to have those needs addressed. The company can not ask an individual if they are disabled. The Office for Civil Rights has also stated that any modifications/accommodations available to disabled individuals may also be available to non-disabled individuals. Hence the latitude Disney and DVC is taking so as to avoid another confrontation with the DOJ or the risk of becoming a test case. So much for a super short Cliff Notes version.

This current situation and its resolution is a prime example of how "Disney has agreed to continue to evaluate and develop other technologies and methods of providing effective communication." Whenever DVC members contact MS they are asked for their Member ID Number. But that is not enough. The MS will ask for the last 4 digits of the SS#, or the home phone/address, or both, for verification that this indeed is the member with a valid DVC Member ID card with whom MS is speaking. Whenever technology is developed to enhance the quality of life for individuals with disabilities it trickles over to benefit all individuals. Future technologies will make processes even more user friendly. The idea of physical presence is no longer as important as it was 5 or ten years ago. No rules were broken or stretched. The DOJ agreement was followed, along with the mandated ADA compliance plan.

canabrits2
03-16-2010, 03:30 PM
This is kinda a grey situation now for me -- I do not know how a child away for college works with DVC. Technically he isn't physically living at home right now but is away at school but returns for 1/3 of the year to your home. Does that make him eligible I do not know?



"Children" generally do not go away for college. With a couple of exceptions, they are 18 and over; legal adults who happen to still have a permanent address at mum and dad's place while attending higher education. My feeling is that these are adults, not dependant children living at home...hence beign taken off taxes. If he was not attending college and was working full-time as a carpenter, he'd be considered a seperate adult and not a child of the family.

I'm one who also says that rules are rules are rules and apply to everyone. Yes, a few times an exception is made due to managerial discretion, I agree with that but one shouldn't feel "entitled" to an exception. The entitlement attitude is rampant nowadays....

BIERMUGG
03-16-2010, 03:31 PM
Imagine the DVC family that has 37 children all buying season passes, and 15 grown ups?

And, if you see that much of a huge increase in buying, it may go away and that would be a bad thing.


But don't you think with that many people they will send a lot of money in the parks regardless of if they go all at once or separately

tjkraz
03-16-2010, 03:41 PM
Actually that is incorrect. The rules do state "When" and "Who" must "present their DVC Member ID Card..." but does not state "what and how." They do not specifically state that the Member has to be present .There is a very valid reason for Disney and DVD leaving it a rather open-ended statement. On January 17, 1997, the Department of Justice and Walt Disney Co. (Disney) signed an agreement under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) to correct discriminatory practices against individuals with disabilities and to provide equal access to its programs and services. Access is not limited to "physical" access or presence. It can be through the use of current and future technologies . The agreement with the Justice Department further states that "Disney has agreed to continue to evaluate and develop other technologies and methods of providing effective communication" and "In that regard, WDW shall notify the Department every six months as to any changes and developments in the types of auxiliary aids provided until December 1, 2000." It also states "The parties understand that nothing contained in this Agreement limits in any way the Department's ability to enforce the ADA against WDW in the future should it not be in compliance with the ADA." The agreement was last revised April 28, 2008.

Since it is a violation of ADA, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, to ask an individual if they have a disability, it is in the best interest of the company, any company with more than 15 employees, to have general guidelines that will not appear to be limiting access to its programs and services. An individual with a disability can volunteer information for the purposes of, for example, an interpreter or auxiliary aids. The company can have a general nondiscrimination statement to the general public to the effect that if you have any special needs you should contact a specific number/person to have those needs addressed. The company can not ask an individual if they are disabled. The Office for Civil Rights has also stated that any modifications/accommodations available to disabled individuals may also be available to non-disabled individuals. Hence the latitude Disney and DVC is taking so as to avoid another confrontation with the DOJ or the risk of becoming a test case. So much for a super short Cliff Notes version.

This current situation and its resolution is a prime example of how "Disney has agreed to continue to evaluate and develop other technologies and methods of providing effective communication." Whenever DVC members contact MS they are asked for their Member ID Number. But that is not enough. The MS will ask for the last 4 digits of the SS#, or the home phone/address, or both, for verification that this indeed is the member with a valid DVC Member ID card with whom MS is speaking. Whenever technology is developed to enhance the quality of life for individuals with disabilities it trickles over to benefit all individuals. Future technologies will make processes even more user friendly. The idea of physical presence is no longer as important as it was 5 or ten years ago. No rules were broken or stretched. The DOJ agreement was followed, along with the mandated ADA compliance plan.

Well, I'm certainly not going to argue ADA law with you. You clearly know far more about it than I do. :goodvibes

However, I still stand by my prior comments that DVC Member Services has consistently stated that a card-carrying DVC member must be present in order for an eligible family member to purchase the discounted pass. I have first-hand knowledge of people who emailed MS to inquire about purchasing the pass for an adult child. In each case the response was that a deeded member must be physically present at the time of purchase.

In the first post of this thread OP stated:

"I spoke to a manager finally who I finally read the rules from the DVC member site that stated that our family was entitled to a discount. However, my wife would have to be there to purchase the ticket. "

Whether or not the policy is appropriate, it's what is being communicated to members. Perhaps OP's conversation with a DVC exec will prompt changes. We'll see...

TisBit
03-16-2010, 03:46 PM
You are still in the honeymoon mode. I am unsure how long you have been going to WDW. I have been going since it opened. I was a chat room host and board moderator about Disney on AOL. I have been a DVC owner for 12 years. I have been involved with Disney in projects at WDW and HK. So, I am feel capable to form an educated opinion of historical decline with Disney.

Interesting how you note that you are happy that they gave you gift baskets and had a castmembers spend DVC money purchasing you a pin and fedexing it to you. I wonder if that was charged to Disney or in the DVC Annual dues that other members had to pay with their money. What happens when DVC stops buying you things ? I wonder how you would feel if you Disney denies your child advertised perks that is due them.

All I wanted was them to give me a perk that was advertised in the Members Only Section of the DVC website. At the time of purchase or redemption, your Disney Vacation Club Member ID Card must be provided and ALL ADULTS must present a valid driver's license or state identification card showing they reside in the same household. Disney accepts the card number over the phone when they are purchased over the phone. So, they are looking for the number and they want a valid (not expired) drivers license. DVC could have said......Could you fax or email a copy of the card ? I would have been glad to do that. They just made up rules that did not match what was written.

Interesting on how you are attacking others in the same manner you are complaining about them attacking you. Disney gave in and are allowing you to get the pass that you feel your son is "entitled" to get without you being present. Shouldn't you be happy now?

How is your anger towards Disney better than what you call them being in the "honeymoon" period. Apparently you are burnt out and feel betrayed, why is that opinion more valid?

PBB
03-16-2010, 03:50 PM
You can not purchase an activated AP over the phone, only a voucher or will call certificate number. You still need to present your membership card and ID when redeeming that voucher or will call for the actual pass.

You can purchase the AP over the phone, you then receive a certificate or voucher via mail. When the my child takes it to the park they must show a "valid drivers license" that shows the address of the member and they process the pass.

dmoore22
03-16-2010, 03:57 PM
Well, I'm certainly not going to argue ADA law with you. You clearly know far more about it than I do. :goodvibes

However, I still stand by my prior comments that DVC Member Services has consistently stated that a card-carrying DVC member must be present in order for an eligible family member to purchase the discounted pass. I have first-hand knowledge of people who emailed MS to inquire about purchasing the pass for an adult child. In each case the response was that a deeded member must be physically present at the time of purchase.

In the first post of this thread OP stated:

"I spoke to a manager finally who I finally read the rules from the DVC member site that stated that our family was entitled to a discount. However, my wife would have to be there to purchase the ticket. "


Whether or not the policy is appropriate, it's what is being communicated to members. Perhaps OP's conversation with a DVC exec will prompt changes. We'll see...

"WDW will continue to improve upon the training and training techniques and consider new and better ways of informing its' cast members in this area whenever possible. WDW shall provide training materials to the Department of Justice for periodic review, upon request from the Department."

--Agreement between Walt Disney World Co. (WDW) and the United States Department of Justice

Obviously what Member Services says has not been consistent with the DVC Member Benefits Guide and DOJ agreement. The training of CMs is apparently still a work in progress with a very long way to go.

palhockeymomof2
03-16-2010, 04:05 PM
"Children" generally do not go away for college. With a couple of exceptions, they are 18 and over; legal adults who happen to still have a permanent address at mum and dad's place while attending higher education. My feeling is that these are adults, not dependant children living at home...hence beign taken off taxes. If he was not attending college and was working full-time as a carpenter, he'd be considered a seperate adult and not a child of the family.

I'm one who also says that rules are rules are rules and apply to everyone. Yes, a few times an exception is made due to managerial discretion, I agree with that but one shouldn't feel "entitled" to an exception. The entitlement attitude is rampant nowadays....


I've got 2 kids in college..one lives full time at home since she goes to a local college and one goes to FGCU in Florida...yes he is at school more than he is home(but his DL is here & he votes here) but he does not make enough money to support himself...they may both be over 18 and legally adults but we support both of them while they got to school and can take them as dependents on our tax returns.

From reading prior posts and the DVC info on the DVC annual passes.....the age of the child...or if they are a legal adult isn't an issue since you can get the discount for your parents who live at the same address as you and have valid id to prove it.

Sammie
03-16-2010, 04:05 PM
It bothers me that so many are willing to accept DVC's short comings, and I am not necessarily referring to this one incident but many others and simply say walk away and sell.

Would you sell your home if your nieighborhood became less than what it was when you bought, or would you try at least first to see if things could be improved.

I can accept change, things that have been done to balance the points, while I personally might not like at first; understand the need and accept it. I will never agree they did it in the right manner, just as I don't think it is appropriate to recieve the guide books after the first of the year. Or stop valet without some type of communication at least going out to members a few days before it happened. Just very bad PR in my opinion.

I used valet service but understand that it would not be fair to make everyone pay for a service that few were using.

However I am disappointed that what I bought is gradually changing to the point at times I don't recoginize it anymore. I bought well maintained resorts even if they were aging, great customer service 99% of the time and clean rooms when checking in. My last visits I have not received any of that.

I know many are simply too new to DVC to notice the differences, because while the product has changed it is not horrible. Which is probably why so many will aspect the lesser product.

I also know that many have been very lucky and not experienced the bad. I have to wonder when you do will you then be so quick to think everything is fine.

And then there are some for whatever reason simply will never see DVC in any eyes except those covered in rose colored glasses.

I personally am not willing to just give up and sell because between the head guy and the lowest there are still some great people working for DVC, that do care. I just have to think that the upper management has lost sight of what DVC was, and that existing members are just as important as new sales. I am also greatly disappointed that one of the best member satisfaction cast members is not in that position anymore, but moved to answering phones at Member Services. Now instead of having someone on the team that truly listened, and relayed concerns to upper management, you have just another person giving you the DVC spin on everything.

DVC would do good to look at the mess that Toyota is in. For years Toyota was the Disney of car manufacturers. They were the best, they were service oriented and they built a product that would last for years over its competetion. But they became more concerned with making money and not taking care of their customers. It will be a long time before many will buy from them due to their treatment of current Toyota owners.

DVC might want to remember the best salespersons for DVC, is a DVC member. I for one will not be selling anything for them at the present time.

corpcomp
03-16-2010, 04:09 PM
We love DVC. Period. Love the rooms, love the People, love the discounts, love ME (but hate the AP prices). Most are generally nice and helpful and we have a great time every time we are there (bearing in mind some funky food we have had at the Si Fi Diner). The MS person I just talked to about a waitlist was so nice and perky, I thought it was her first day on the job! :cool1:

TagsMissy
03-16-2010, 04:12 PM
"Children" generally do not go away for college. With a couple of exceptions, they are 18 and over; legal adults who happen to still have a permanent address at mum and dad's place while attending higher education. My feeling is that these are adults, not dependant children living at home...hence beign taken off taxes. If he was not attending college and was working full-time as a carpenter, he'd be considered a seperate adult and not a child of the family.

I'm one who also says that rules are rules are rules and apply to everyone. Yes, a few times an exception is made due to managerial discretion, I agree with that but one shouldn't feel "entitled" to an exception. The entitlement attitude is rampant nowadays....

The kid, a collage age kid is still their child. No matter what you are always someone's child but thank you for enlightening me as to what a college student is. :rotfl::rotfl: In this case this person's CHILD is a college student who is away for school but returns home when his term/semester/whatever you want to call it is over. There is no debate here. DIsney doesn't just allow dependent children to be given benefits such as the discount on passes... it extends to parents, kids, siblings, in laws, etc as long as they live under the same roof.

SuzanneSLO
03-16-2010, 04:17 PM
Actually that is incorrect. The rules do state "When" and "Who" must "present their DVC Member ID Card..." but does not state "what and how." They do not specifically state that the Member has to be present .There is a very valid reason for Disney and DVD leaving it a rather open-ended statement. On January 17, 1997, the Department of Justice and Walt Disney Co. (Disney) signed an agreement under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) to correct discriminatory practices against individuals with disabilities and to provide equal access to its programs and services. Access is not limited to "physical" access or presence. It can be through the use of current and future technologies . The agreement with the Justice Department further states that "Disney has agreed to continue to evaluate and develop other technologies and methods of providing effective communication" and "In that regard, WDW shall notify the Department every six months as to any changes and developments in the types of auxiliary aids provided until December 1, 2000." It also states "The parties understand that nothing contained in this Agreement limits in any way the Department's ability to enforce the ADA against WDW in the future should it not be in compliance with the ADA." The agreement was last revised April 28, 2008.

Since it is a violation of ADA, and Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, to ask an individual if they have a disability, it is in the best interest of the company, any company with more than 15 employees, to have general guidelines that will not appear to be limiting access to its programs and services. An individual with a disability can volunteer information for the purposes of, for example, an interpreter or auxiliary aids. The company can have a general nondiscrimination statement to the general public to the effect that if you have any special needs you should contact a specific number/person to have those needs addressed. The company can not ask an individual if they are disabled. The Office for Civil Rights has also stated that any modifications/accommodations available to disabled individuals may also be available to non-disabled individuals. Hence the latitude Disney and DVC is taking so as to avoid another confrontation with the DOJ or the risk of becoming a test case. So much for a super short Cliff Notes version.

This current situation and its resolution is a prime example of how "Disney has agreed to continue to evaluate and develop other technologies and methods of providing effective communication." Whenever DVC members contact MS they are asked for their Member ID Number. But that is not enough. The MS will ask for the last 4 digits of the SS#, or the home phone/address, or both, for verification that this indeed is the member with a valid DVC Member ID card with whom MS is speaking. Whenever technology is developed to enhance the quality of life for individuals with disabilities it trickles over to benefit all individuals. Future technologies will make processes even more user friendly. The idea of physical presence is no longer as important as it was 5 or ten years ago. No rules were broken or stretched. The DOJ agreement was followed, along with the mandated ADA compliance plan.

I am having a bit of trouble following this, but are you saying that the ADA and the agreement Disney reached with the DOJ prohibits Disney from requiring the physical presence of a person in connection with the issuance of theme park tickets?

If that is really the case, Disney violates this all the time. At the present time, the physical presence of each person is required to convert a GAD GADD voucher to a theme park ticket, i.e., parents cannot get the tickets for their children unless their children are physically present. Last year (and possibily this year) the physical presence of a person with appropriate military ID was requried to get the Military Salute tickets.

While I am sure that there may be some services that cannot be limited to only those physically present due to the ADA, since use of a ticket to a Theme Park requires physical presence at the Theme Park, requiring that presence to issue a theme park ticket appears to be perfectly legitimate.

-- Suzanne

deebits
03-16-2010, 04:20 PM
How does a regular family with children purchase the AP with DVC? If the child lives at home, as per the driver id, then I do not see what the problem is him getting the discount. It is not like the address is different. Can you not add him to the DVC account so he will receive the memebers card? My DH and I both are both members with different last names. We purchased DVC after we go married and I had not officially changed my last name to his. I ordered his annual pass over the phone in May because we have different anniversary dates, went to Disney with a friend of mine, showed my ID with my last name and got his annual pass. The woman at the window never questioned anything. I even bought my marriage license just in case there was a question.

So how does someone who has a grown child get the annual pass for them? I just do not see why there is a problem if the child still "lives at home".

Muushka
03-16-2010, 04:22 PM
This thread reminds me of our congress.......popcorn::

going/again
03-16-2010, 04:24 PM
I suspect the idea is that if the perk is abused, it ain't gonna stick around. Disney sacrifices $100-125 for every AP purchased so I would expect them to be somewhat rigid in how the perk is administered.

Disney sacrifices nothing, they make decisions that benefit Disney

Oshawa
03-16-2010, 04:34 PM
Interesting on how you are attacking others in the same manner you are complaining about them attacking you. Disney gave in and are allowing you to get the pass that you feel your son is "entitled" to get without you being present. Shouldn't you be happy now?

How is your anger towards Disney better than what you call them being in the "honeymoon" period. Apparently you are burnt out and feel betrayed, why is that opinion more valid?

Totally agree with you Tisbit!! :thumbsup2

dmoore22
03-16-2010, 04:41 PM
I am having a bit of trouble following this, but are you saying that the ADA and the agreement Disney reached with the DOJ prohibits Disney from requiring the physical presence of a person in connection with the issuance of theme park tickets?

If that is really the case, Disney violates this all the time. At the present time, the physical presence of each person is required to convert a GAD GADD voucher to a theme park ticket, i.e., parents cannot get the tickets for their children unless their children are physically present. Last year (and possibily this year) the physical presence of a person with appropriate military ID was requried to get the Military Salute tickets.

While I am sure that there may be some services that cannot be limited to only those physically present due to the ADA, since use of a ticket to a Theme Park requires physical presence at the Theme Park, requiring that presence to issue a theme park ticket appears to be perfectly legitimate.

-- Suzanne

As I said before, this is the Cliff Notes version. Many businesses affected by this law will try to develop gender, race, disability neutral policies/procedures to avoid non-compliance issues. This situation is, perhaps, is one of those. OCR/DOJ only monitors when there is a formal complaint.

tjkraz
03-16-2010, 04:52 PM
Disney sacrifices nothing, they make decisions that benefit Disney

Well of course they do. (Hardly unique since all businesses made decisions that benefit themselves...and you made decisions that benefit you, I make decisions that benefit me, etc.)

Nevertheless Disney made a conscious decision to charge $414 to a DVC member for purchasing an Annual Pass and $520 for a non-Member AP.

As I understand it, Disney Vacation Development actually subsidizes the Annual Pass discount. Their motivation is sales of DVC points to new and existing members. It's an appealing benefit for those considering membership and encourages more trips, which in turn encourages point add-ons.

If "Disney" didn't care how many people were getting the $100 discount, they would just lower the price to $414 for all.

going/again
03-16-2010, 04:58 PM
Step away from Disney and just sell.

It amazes me that anytime someone on these boards dares to be critical of DVC, That the replies come flying back SELL, LEAVE, MOVE ON, DVC is far from perfect but to some they cant accept any critical comments about it,
I'm not happy with aspects of DVC mainly the deep discounting by Disney of DVC resorts, while those of you in USA dont see some of the massive discounts given in the UK with free dining included, this really devalues our membership, as we can now book SSR our home resort for less than our yearly dues, what you get is bank rent your points, how long can you bank or rent for , before it comes totally poinless to own.

IMHO DVC should of told owners of stand alone DVC resorts that their resort would be sold in travel brochures if we had been made aware of this we either would of bought elsewhere or not at all, for all of you that think DVC is wonderfull good I'm pleased it is, it should of been for us but its not, and judgeing by the number of new resales on the Timeshare store update we get everyday its not for others either which is sad, for what ever reason so many are selling DVC is not what it could of been

Muushka
03-16-2010, 05:10 PM
One time someone on the DVC board (who no longer 'contributes' here) told me that I needed to sell my DVC membership because I didn't go into the parks on some of our trips. Funny part was that I didn't even ask if I should sell my membership. :confused3

vicki_c
03-16-2010, 05:12 PM
Can you not add him to the DVC account so he will receive the memebers card?

You cannot get a blue DVC membership card unless you are named on the deed. If you are not, you can only be added as an associate and they don't get member cards. Adding someone to the deed involves a real estate transaction, with a closing.

Anyone family members living in the household can get a DVC AP (or however that's stated in the rules) but the purchaser has to show their blue membership card. (not withstanding all the information already contained in this thread - that's just my basic understanding of how it's supposed to work).

going/again
03-16-2010, 05:12 PM
Well of course they do. (Hardly unique since all businesses made decisions that benefit themselves...and you made decisions that benefit you, I make decisions that benefit me, etc.)

Nevertheless Disney made a conscious decision to charge $414 to a DVC member for purchasing an Annual Pass and $520 for a non-Member AP.

As I understand it, Disney Vacation Development actually subsidizes the Annual Pass discount. Their motivation is sales of DVC points to new and existing members. It's an appealing benefit for those considering membership and encourages more trips, which in turn encourages point add-ons.

If "Disney" didn't care how many people were getting the $100 discount, they would just lower the price to $414 for all.

I didn't say they didn't care, i was pointing out they sacrifice nothing as you had said they do, it's a business decision not a sacrifice, two different things alltogether

tjkraz
03-16-2010, 05:33 PM
It bothers me that so many are willing to accept DVC's short comings, and I am not necessarily referring to this one incident but many others and simply say walk away and sell.

It amazes me that anytime someone on these boards dares to be critical of DVC, That the replies come flying back SELL, LEAVE, MOVE ON...

While it isn't the most....thought-provoking suggestion, what other course of action would you both suggest? By the time you've eaten your 1000th rotten hamburger, it may be time to realize that you shouldn't be going to McDonald's anymore.

Same is true of Walt Disney World.

I can see both sides of the issue. While some are vocal in their displeasure over changes that have occurred through the years, others choose to just roll with the punches or simply haven't been visiting the parks long enough to know any different. For the latter group, THIS Disney is the only Disney they know.

Frankly it's equally rude to tell people "I've been going to WDW since 19xx...you just don't know any better...you should be upset about these issues, too."

Does the opinion of a Member who bought in 1995 matter more than someone who bought in 2005?

To those who are upset with decisions Disney and/or DVC have made in recent years, what actions have you taken?

tjkraz
03-16-2010, 05:41 PM
I didn't say they didn't care, i was pointing out they sacrifice nothing as you had said they do, it's a business decision not a sacrifice, two different things alltogether

Sacrifice: to surrender or give up, or permit injury or disadvantage to, for the sake of something else.

Disney gives up (sacrifices) the $100 in AP revenue in hopes of earning additional revenues elsewhere.

WebmasterDoc
03-16-2010, 06:01 PM
Since the OP has already resolved the initial complaint with MS and has reported the outcome, it's apparent that the "discussion" has ventured well beyond the original topic and continued to do so in spite of a warning by a board moderator.

Thanks for participating.