The Very First Dis Book Club Discussion Thread - The Pirate Latitudes

[DisneyKevin]

We have decided to start a reading club where several of us read the same book at the same time and discuss it here on the Dis Unplugged Board.

Our first Dis Book Club selection is The Pirate Latitudes by Michael Crichton.

I will only ask one thing of the folks posting on this particular thread and that is that we keep this thread to the discussion topic at hand.

We have a great many "social" threads where peeps can be checked on, post counts can be increased, expensive purses can be oohed over etc....

This thread will be for the discussion of this particular book.

Should this type of thing intrigue you, but this book not be to your taste....please be patient. I'm sure there will be another selection along in the future.

Everybody read!

[Applemomma]

Downloading it right now for my mp3 (I get more listening done then reading:music:). I'm excited!

[alebisi]

I'm buying the book today, do we have a specific date to finish the book? So we can discussed it all together ???

[CastawayJP]

Looks like a good book! And I just finished my last book last night! I'll try and get out to pick up a copy today!

[wishspirit]

Just sent the reservation for the library, and I can pick it up Thursday!

History and pirates sounds like my kinda book! :thumbsup2

[DisneyKevin]

I'm buying the book today, do we have a specific date to finish the book? So we can discussed it all together ???

I dont have an end date in mind.

If you have an idea....I'm all for it.

I havent thought through all of the details. :)

[kimisabella]

I just came back from the library. As I was standing in front of the best sellers shelf, the librarian put this out on the shelf. It must be fate! Looking forward to starting this book today.

[Applemomma]

I dont have an end date in mind.

If you have an idea....I'm all for it.

I havent thought through all of the details. :)

Seeing as how it's March 1st and keeping in mind that some folks are going to need to wait for a bit to get it from the library would it be fair to say we wait two weeks to begin actual discussion of the book and the hopefully all will have read it by March 15th? Or should we make it a little longer?

We could call this one the March book and select one for April and those of us that have easier access could read ahead and it would give others a little more time to get their "April" copies.....

Thoughts? Discuss.......

[miksilver]

I just read this book about 3 weeks ago. I bought it for my DH for xmas, but wound up reading it before he did :lmao: It was the first hardcover book I have read since I got my kindle :love:.

I'm in for book discussing...

Kim

[alebisi]

Seeing as how it's March 1st and keeping in mind that some folks are going to need to wait for a bit to get it from the library would it be fair to say we wait two weeks to begin actual discussion of the book and the hopefully all will have read it by March 15th? Or should we make it a little longer?

We could call this one the March book and select one for April and those of us that have easier access could read ahead and it would give others a little more time to get their "April" copies.....

Thoughts? Discuss.......

I think it's a good idea! this is fine for me ;)
Others? Thoughts?

[georgemoe]

I'm game as long as Nikki is not handing out tests. ;)

I'm going to download the book (file) from my library tonight.

[tanyabanana]

Going to download to the Kindle today. Will be nice to read a book with someone for a change ;)

[CoMickey]

I just read this book about 3 weeks ago. I bought it for my DH for xmas, but wound up reading it before he did :lmao: It was the first hardcover book I have read since I got my kindle :love:.

I'm in for book discussing...

Kim

I received this book for my birthday to 'throw' me off the fact that I was getting a Kindle and this will be my first paper book since getting my Kindle in Nov. I wonder if I remember how to work a hardcover, paper book?

Sounds fun! I'm in!

[DisneyKevin]

Seeing as how it's March 1st and keeping in mind that some folks are going to need to wait for a bit to get it from the library would it be fair to say we wait two weeks to begin actual discussion of the book and the hopefully all will have read it by March 15th? Or should we make it a little longer?

We could call this one the March book and select one for April and those of us that have easier access could read ahead and it would give others a little more time to get their "April" copies.....

Thoughts? Discuss.......

Sounds good to me.

Let's shoot for our discssion starting on or about March 15th and at that time we can pick a book for April.

Please keep in mind that this is the beginning stages of this Club....so if we find out that we have to speed things up a bit....or more likely....slow things down a bit (we all know that the best laid plans can go wildly astray)...we can do that.

I'm hoping that this will become a sort of fluid process.

I will be announcing this on this week's podcast to let everyone know that we are getting started and offer an open invitation to join us.

[wildfan1473]

This sounds great! I have been wanting to read this.

[*NikkiBell*]

Yay! I'm glad we are going with this book.

I've done a lot of book clubs in the past both on and offline. I've found the discussion to be much richer when you divide the book into sections, read them at your own pace, and then discuss. When I brought the idea up in the other thread, that's how I envisioned it. I'm game for however though.

I think asking people to read the entire book ny the 15th is way too early. Could we agree for everyone to get the book this week and then decide on what section to have read by the 15th? We can then discuss that section of the book here and people can go ahead if they are ready and have the time to do so. Then the next section could be read, etc. This is really the best way to promote fluid discussion with a reasonable timeline and while not holding those who want to continue reading back.

I dont have the book yet and would divide it up as an example. I can get it this week and do so if this is how everyone wants to move ahead. Basically we'd read let's say Ch. 1-3, discuss/read, have a deadline for the next few chapters, discuss/read, etc. Oprahs book club does it this way too. I'm also holding a professional book club for my district in May and this is how we will do it. The Harry Potter fan sites have used this method too and we found it very rewarding.


Thoughts? Does this make sense?

[KatheeME]

I miss my old book club, this is a great idea and I look forward to participating. I am downloading mine tonight. :)

[*NikkiBell*]

I'm game as long as Nikki is not handing out tests. ;)

I'm going to download the book (file) from my library tonight.

Yup, essay test for you Jorge!!! Lol

[stitchlover]

I'll download this evening and get started on it tomorrow. I think Nikki's idea for dividing the book into sections sounds good. I won't be around for some of the discussion, will be at WDW from 3/11-3/20, but will pop in when I can with E-Ticket.

[Applemomma]

That makes a lot of sense Nikki!:thumbsup2

[DisneyKevin]

As this was Nikki's idea originally.....I'm going to ask that she be in charge of setting this up and keeping everyone on track.

I apologize in advance.....I want and plan to participate, but I can not guarantee that I will be able to devote enough time to it to keep it running as well as we all hope.

I think this is a truly awesome idea and I'm happy to be part of it.

I'm going to wait and see what Nikki's response to this post might be.

If she says yes....we're good to get started. If she's not interested.....we'll see if someone else might be.

Thanks,
Kevin

[*NikkiBell*]

Kevin, I'd be happy to help out, but on just one condition. ;) I would love for you to participate when you can. You seemed so excited about this yesterday afternoon. I don't know if you're just busy with the ABD trip or other things that may have come down the pike, but I hope my suggestion didn't male this appear overwhelming. Or was it just my bubbly personality and good looks that scared you away? :rofl:

In all seriousness, this is a club for everyone and there's no pressure. If you can read a section by the set date, great. If not, that's fine too. Everyone should go at their own pace - no matter how fast or slow that may be. :) We will all congregate here to discuss whenever ready.

Today is such a good day to kick this off too. It's Read Across America Day which celebrates reading each year on Dr. Seuss' birthday. What better way to celebrate than with our DIS friends? :)

I'll pick up the book tonight after my Writing Club. I'll try to divide up then. In the meantime, can you all look into getting your copy at some point this week or weekend? For those that want to go ahead, feel free to dive right in. Just leave some pirate action for the rest of us. Lol

[lttlmc3]

Arg! All copies are checked out at my library! I'm gonna put myself on the waiting list though.

[PinkBudgie]

I downloaded a sample to my Kindle last night. It seemed interesting starting out, so I'll get the whole thing later.

[georgemoe]

I downloaded it last night onto my Nook from the local library. I needed a head start because you won't be calling me Jorge anymore. It will be Snaily. :)

[DisneyKevin]

Kevin, I'd be happy to help out, but on just one condition. ;) I would love for you to participate when you can. You seemed so excited about this yesterday afternoon. I don't know if you're just busy with the ABD trip or other things that may have come down the pike, but I hope my suggestion didn't male this appear overwhelming. Or was it just my bubbly personality and good looks that scared you away? :rofl:

I am thrilled to participate and have every intention to do just that. This book is already loaded into my Kindle.

With the ABD trip coming up and all of the other stuff going on, I just know that it's going to work out better for everyone if someone else is the leader of this group.

I'm looking forward to being able to talk about the book I'm reading with others who are involved in the same book. John is tired of me reading to him just so that we can talk about it.:)

By the way.....it's podcast recording day!

[Merry Mousketeer]

What a happy coincidence! I finished Shadow Divers last week and started reading Pirate Latitudes before I saw this thread.

However, I put the book aside a couple of days ago to read the novelization of Disney's Alice in Wonderland film coming out this weekend. I'll have to pick up Pirates again.

[*NikkiBell*]

Woohoo!! We are going to be the best group of pirates, I mean, uhh...readers!!

[Applemomma]

Loving it so far! Started "reading" on my mp3 this morning while out pruning in the orchard :music:. Within the first few minutes I had an "EEWWWWW! Yuck!" moment and by chapter 5 I've already got my favorite characters!

Not a book I would have picked up on my own but I'm really enjoying it!

[Northern_Julie]

I am ussually quiet around here but would like to join in. The other reader at work is on maternity leave and really miss being able to talk about my reading adventures.

[AnninIowa]

While this book holds no interest for me, I love this overall idea of having a book-of-the-month and hope I can joing in in the future! :goodvibes

[*NikkiBell*]

Hi All,

I just picked up the book at Barnes & Noble. It is currently 50% off thanks to their big sale going on.



UPDATE TO ADD:

Welcome to all of those who are going to participate! I'm so excited! :)

After looking at the book itself, I think the most logical way to tackle it is in its already pre-defined parts. Originally I was going to post each section with a flexible "deadline" to finish reading it, but I'd like to instead work with the first part and adjust timing from there. Everyone is a different type of reader so I don't want to go too quickly or too slowly.

For now, would it be alright for everyone to get the book and have Part I read by March 13th? This gives just a bit extra time for those who are having trouble getting the text right now.

Feel free to begin discussing Part I from here on. You do not have to be finished with it in order to post your thoughts and ideas. The best discussions come as you go along.

Happy reading!!! Arrghh!

[*NikkiBell*]

Below are a few links to wet the whistles of those waiting to pick up the novel at your local library or bookstore.

Pirate Latitudes Book Trailer (UK Version) - Think Movie Trailer, But for Books
http://www.michaelcrichton.net/index.html


Pirate Latitudes Blurb & US Trailer
http://www.michaelcrichton.net/books-piratelatitudes-us.html


Press Release Regarding Pirate Latitudes
http://www.michaelcrichton.net/mc-newbook.html


LA Times Book Review
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/26/entertainment/la-et-rutten26-2009nov26


Pirate Latitudes News Including Possible Film Version
http://www.michaelcrichton.net/books-piratelatitudes-news.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm finding the author, Michael Crichton, quite fascinating so far. I have never read any of his books and just realized that he wrote the original Jurassic Park. He also is known for the series ER and the film Disclosure.

According to one article in the LA Times, Pirate Latitudes is one of his "lost" works. It was discovered shortly after his death in 2008 by an assistant and later published. Some critics question whether or not this was ethically appropriate. What do you think? If an author passes away and does not leave any formal request regarding a book's publication, is it okay for a colleague or relative to have it published?

[tanyabanana]

[/B]According to one article in the LA Times, Pirate Latitudes is one of his "lost" works. It was discovered shortly after his death in 2008 by an assistant and later published. Some critics question whether or not this was ethically appropriate. What do you think? If an author passes away and does not leave any formal request regarding a book's publication, is it okay for a colleague or relative to have it published?

good question! I believe that if it were my work I would be ok with my close relative (but probably not a colleague) publishing it. My mom wrote poetry and after she passed I found poems on her computer that she never shared or published. For me it was a precious insight into my mom that I never had before.
I would like to believe that publishing these types of work would come from a love of the author and their work and not just financial reasons, but know that is not always the case.

[KatheeME]

Kevin, I'd be happy to help out, but on just one condition. ;) I would love for you to participate when you can. You seemed so excited about this yesterday afternoon. I don't know if you're just busy with the ABD trip or other things that may have come down the pike, but I hope my suggestion didn't male this appear overwhelming. Or was it just my bubbly personality and good looks that scared you away? :rofl:

In all seriousness, this is a club for everyone and there's no pressure. If you can read a section by the set date, great. If not, that's fine too. Everyone should go at their own pace - no matter how fast or slow that may be. :) We will all congregate here to discuss whenever ready.

Today is such a good day to kick this off too. It's Read Across America Day which celebrates reading each year on Dr. Seuss' birthday. What better way to celebrate than with our DIS friends? :)

I'll pick up the book tonight after my Writing Club. I'll try to divide up then. In the meantime, can you all look into getting your copy at some point this week or weekend? For those that want to go ahead, feel free to dive right in. Just leave some pirate action for the rest of us. Lol


Thanks so much for this great idea Nikki and for getting us going Kevin. I did start reading last night, it's good, but my lips are sealed until we start discussing. :)

[KatheeME]

Hi All,

I just picked up the book at Barnes & Noble. It is currently 50% off thanks to their big sale going on.



UPDATE TO ADD:

Welcome to all of those who are going to participate! I'm so excited! :)

After looking at the book itself, I think the most logical way to tackle it is in its already pre-defined parts. Originally I was going to post each section with a flexible "deadline" to finish reading it, but I'd like to instead work with the first part and adjust timing from there. Everyone is a different type of reader so I don't want to go too quickly or too slowly.

For now, would it be alright for everyone to get the book and have Part I read by March 13th? This gives just a bit extra time for those who are having trouble getting the text right now.

Feel free to begin discussing Part I from here on. You do not have to be finished with it in order to post your thoughts and ideas. The best discussions come as you go along.

Happy reading!!! Arrghh!

sounds good, thanks!

[sc9500]

Im ready to roam Jamaica and the Caribbean with my fellow readers. I have read many Michael Chrichton books and was saddened by his passing but that whole "discovered" novel thing has become such a scam imo. Its like when the son takes over the franchise - ie Herbert (Dune) and Tolkien ..

[KatheeME]

I am not sure how I feel about publishing "lost" materials, after one's passing. It's a great gift to those that love his work, but a small part of me always wonders about a scam, or one taking advantage of the find.

[BriarRosie]

I saw this thread during my lunch hour at work, and I was able to pick this book up at my local library after work. I haven't started it yet.

[PinkBudgie]

I am not sure how I feel about publishing "lost" materials, after one's passing. It's a great gift to those that love his work, but a small part of me always wonders about a scam, or one taking advantage of the find.

Yes, a part of me is wondering how do we know he really wrote it? :confused3 Especially since it is so different from his others.

[Applemomma]

I think it would depend on the quality of the work. If it was something I was happy with and would have submitted it for publishing then great. If it was something I felt was one step away from the trash can then I'd be upset someone published less then quality work. In this case I think the writing would have to speak for itself and hopefully the editors publish for quality not necessarily sensationalism, which I'm sure is sometimes the case.

[Merry Mousketeer]

I'm a few chapters into it and I'm enjoying it. But be wary - this is not our beloved Pirates of the Caribbean. This is what went on in the back alleys!

[sc9500]

I'm a few chapters into it and I'm enjoying it. But be wary - this is not our beloved Pirates of the Caribbean. This is what went on in the back alleys!
Actually a more realistic view of what pirates were and not what we've romanticized ..they were criminals and thugs and not good guys, hardly someone to emulate.

[miksilver]

I too am not always a fan of those books that are "lost" after an author passes. Since you don't know what state the manuscript was found in, it's tough to judge how much others had their hand in the story.

I think that this would be a good question to ask again after we all finish the book.

[alebisi]

Thanks Nikki of taking care of the Dis book club! This is my first Book Club! I'll be reading the book in italian, but the content it's the same. I haven't read anything about this author yet, so even if I finish the book, I think I couldn't judge wether is still Michael Crichton's stile. But I'd love to hear the opinion of others that have read his books and are reading this one, I'll start reading today :)

[hmonkeyruns]

I'm not a fan of the "lost" manuscript concept. This book is one I couldn't resist reading because of how much I've enjoyed Crichton's books in the past, but I can't help but think that if he'd finished it and was proud of it, it would have been published, or on the way to being published, prior to his death.

He's always good for a fun story though, even if it's not exactly high literature, so I'm hoping that he worked out enough of the plot here to keep me happy.

I haven't read enough of the book yet to know if it feels like a regular Crichton book -- but I admit when I first saw it in the store that I suspected it had a completely different author and that they were just using his name to sell books. Kind of like that whole scam of a series of Tom Clancy books where they have his name in 5 inch letters on the cover but when you pick it up it says in "created by" and it has a totally different author.

[sshaw10060]

This was the first book I read on the Kindle I received for Christmas. I am looking forward to the discussion.

[Applemomma]

I'm actually almost done! That's the beauty of being able to listen while I'm working....my plan is to go right back to the beginning and listen again.

I'm a few chapters into it and I'm enjoying it. But be wary - this is not our beloved Pirates of the Caribbean. This is what went on in the back alleys!

Actually a more realistic view of what pirates were and not what we've romanticized ..they were criminals and thugs and not good guys, hardly someone to emulate.

Definitly NOT your Disney-pirate....quite frankly I think Captain Hunter could give Captain Jack a run for his money ;)....

I too am not always a fan of those books that are "lost" after an author passes. Since you don't know what state the manuscript was found in, it's tough to judge how much others had their hand in the story.

I think that this would be a good question to ask again after we all finish the book.

Thanks Nikki of taking care of the Dis book club! This is my first Book Club! I'll be reading the book in italian, but the content it's the same. I haven't read anything about this author yet, so even if I finish the book, I think I couldn't judge wether is still Michael Crichton's stile. But I'd love to hear the opinion of others that have read his books and are reading this one, I'll start reading today :)

I second the thanks to Nikki! :thumbsup2 And having never read (to the best of my knowledge) any other Crichton books I can't say whether this is his style or not or if anything has been filled in but the story line seems to be going well. There are a few spots that I think he must have meant to fill in something between events but it doesn't take away anything, only makes me wonder how better those parts would have been. So far I haven't noticed anything that seemed out of place and probably wouldn't have even wondered about it if I hadn't already known the story behind the book.

[Grumpy's Old Lady]

Hi All,

I just picked up the book at Barnes & Noble. It is currently 50% off thanks to their big sale going on.



UPDATE TO ADD:

Welcome to all of those who are going to participate! I'm so excited! :)

After looking at the book itself, I think the most logical way to tackle it is in its already pre-defined parts. Originally I was going to post each section with a flexible "deadline" to finish reading it, but I'd like to instead work with the first part and adjust timing from there. Everyone is a different type of reader so I don't want to go too quickly or too slowly.

For now, would it be alright for everyone to get the book and have Part I read by March 13th? This gives just a bit extra time for those who are having trouble getting the text right now.

Feel free to begin discussing Part I from here on. You do not have to be finished with it in order to post your thoughts and ideas. The best discussions come as you go along.

Happy reading!!! Arrghh!

This sounds like fun. My DS just gave me the book recently to read. We share books often and he just finished it. I look forward to discussing this too. Never participated in a book club. Thanks Nikki for taking charge!:cheer2:

[jpeka65844]

I'm gonna jump in too! I've been re-reading The Mists of Avalon and I don't remember it sucking that bad. This gives me an excuse to put it down!

[wildfan1473]

I just picked up my copy at the library; I cannot wait to dive into it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm finding the author, Michael Crichton, quite fascinating so far. I have never read any of his books and just realized that he wrote the original Jurassic Park. He also is known for the series ER and the film Disclosure.

According to one article in the LA Times, Pirate Latitudes is one of his "lost" works. It was discovered shortly after his death in 2008 by an assistant and later published. Some critics question whether or not this was ethically appropriate. What do you think? If an author passes away and does not leave any formal request regarding a book's publication, is it okay for a colleague or relative to have it published?

I love Michael Crichton's books. If you haven't read Juraissic Park, I highly recommend it...but be forewarned, it was much more graphic than the movie. As far as whether or not a book should be published if it was discovered after he passes...well, I'm still reeling over the fact that I didn't know he died!!!!!!!! It honestly depends on the book. I'll have a better feel for this after I read it to know if it was kept in his tradition or not.

[PinkBudgie]

I've never been in a book club either because they are always those touchy feely boring relationship stories. So I'm happy to read about pirates!

I read Time Line by him and I really liked that one. This book is sort of reminding me of that one in that both take place in another time period. I have State of Fear in hard back but haven't gotten to that one yet.

Since I'm reading this on Kindle, I don't know what page I'm on but I've read %18. :)

[*NikkiBell*]

I'm gonna jump in too! I've been re-reading The Mists of Avalon and I don't remember it sucking that bad. This gives me an excuse to put it down!

I remember reading Mists of Avalon for a course I took in college. I LOVED that book.

Okay, bad Nikki... :offtopic: :rolleyes1 ;)


According to one article in the LA Times, Pirate Latitudes is one of his "lost" works. It was discovered shortly after his death in 2008 by an assistant and later published. Some critics question whether or not this was ethically appropriate. What do you think? If an author passes away and does not leave any formal request regarding a book's publication, is it okay for a colleague or relative to have it published?

As far as the question I posted last night, I've been having a hard time coming up with an opinion. There definitely seems to be some controversy surrounding this novel. Part of me thinks that if it was a very popular author, it would be wonderful to have a "lost" work. However, the other part of me questions as to whether or not there was a specific reason the text wasn't published. Could it be this type of scenario for Pirate Latitudes? Did Crichton want it published or not? I guess we'll never know, but it's fun to talk about in the meantime.

[jpeka65844]

I remember reading Mists of Avalon for a course I took in college. I LOVED that book.

A.

I did too Nikki! And I LOVED it. Now that I'm older, it just seems a little melodramatic and very anti-Christian. Even though they say "All Gods are One...", they depict Druids and those of Avalon as the only SMART people in the book! Didn't really notice that the first time around.....Strange how age and life experience can color your perception!

[CoMickey]

I've never been in a book club either because they are always those touchy feely boring relationship stories. So I'm happy to read about pirates!

I read Time Line by him and I really liked that one. This book is sort of reminding me of that one in that both take place in another time period. I have State of Fear in hard back but haven't gotten to that one yet.

Since I'm reading this on Kindle, I don't know what page I'm on but I've read %18. :)

State of Fear is very good and timely in that it deals with 'global warming'.

I have trouble with not knowing the page I am on while reading on my Kindle too and I always give the % too and DBF then figures out what page I would be on. He's the math wiz...I'm the reader!

[KatheeME]

I did too Nikki! And I LOVED it. Now that I'm older, it just seems a little melodramatic and very anti-Christian. Even though they say "All Gods are One...", they depict Druids and those of Avalon as the only SMART people in the book! Didn't really notice that the first time around.....Strange how age and life experience can color your perception!


I LOVED this book as well, just added it to my wish list to maybe read again!

[Mary Jo]

I just heard about this on the podcast, so I just downloaded the book to my Kindle & will start reading so I can join in the discussion. :)

Great idea! :thumbsup2

[CoMickey]

I just heard about this on the podcast, so I just downloaded the book to my Kindle & will start reading so I can join in the discussion. :)

Great idea! :thumbsup2

Hi MJ! :wave:

[robind]

I read Time Line by him and I really liked that one. This book is sort of reminding me of that one in that both take place in another time period. I have State of Fear in hard back but haven't gotten to that one yet.

Since I'm reading this on Kindle, I don't know what page I'm on but I've read %18. :)

I really liked Time Line also, I think I've read most of his books, I tend to like his medical/ science type books the best. Now I just need to decide if I download the audible book or to my kindle. Looking forward to the discussion.

[jpeka65844]

Did some online hunting, looking for the buzz about this book when it first came out. Seems that Spielberg has already landed the movie rights!

I loved Jurassic Park, both the book AND the movie. I'm sure it will be in good hands!

[dizneedoll]

I don't post often over on the podcast board too often but I love the idea of a book club! Thanks for taking it on Nikki. I read Pirate Latitudes about a month ago. I don't want to discuss too much of the plot yet so I don't spoil it for others. But I'll just say of all the Crichton books I've read this was pretty much the worst one. Not that is was bad, just not as good as his other works.


Yes, a part of me is wondering how do we know he really wrote it? :confused3 Especially since it is so different from his others.
I wondered the same thing. I've read almost all of his books and this one doesn't feel like him at all. I wondered what the story behind the "lost" manuscript was.

I'm a few chapters into it and I'm enjoying it. But be wary - this is not our beloved Pirates of the Caribbean. This is what went on in the back alleys!
True. But there are a lot of similarities to the Pirates movies. I wondered if he maybe wrote the book, then went to the movies and saw POTC and walked out thinking "oh crap, well I guess I won't be publishing that" :rotfl:

[mainegal]

I will only ask one thing of the folks posting on this particular thread and that is that we keep this thread to the discussion topic at hand.

We have a great many "social" threads where peeps can be checked on, post counts can be increased, expensive purses can be oohed over etc....

This thread will be for the discussion of this particular book.




I really liked this "rule" in Kevin's first post.

Please keep other titles and socializing on other threads. This will make it easier to read the discussion of the one book we are reading together.

Thanks!:flower3:

[nmoore14]

This books sounds good. I like most books by Michal Crichton books. Happy reading everyone!pirate:

[*NikkiBell*]

I really liked this "rule" in Kevin's first post.

Please keep other titles and socializing on other threads. This will make it easier to read the discussion of the one book we are reading together.

Thanks!:flower3:

Thanks for chiming in, Lyn. I agree with this rule, too, and think everyone's doing a great job with it. Of course, a line or two slightly off topic will happen, but it's all in good fun and adds dynamics to the thread. :)

[FlightlessDuck]

While I like this idea a lot, I'm not going to join in on the detailed discussion this time since I just finished the book and I am not going to read it over again. But I will chime in from time to time.

In general, I liked this book. I did feel it started to drag a little in the middle. But that might be because of my low attention span. :happytv:

Also, I'm used to Crichton's more tech-related books (like Jurassic Park), so this was a different experience for me.

[Northern_Julie]

I didn't know he had passed away. This brings up so many questions to me in how it was edited. The relationship between an author and editor can be a slippery slope to keep the original intent intact. This could very well be his work but it was edited without his imput it may not be the adventure he intended after editing.

I haven't read Micheal Crichton in many years. Something his work has always done for me is made me go an look things up. I have an archivist background and find myself looking into the time period to paint a more vivid picture. I took a natural dying workshop a year ago and ended up looking up the dyes he was describing in the first chapter.
Is it the chroic researcher in me or do other people find themselves looking into the time period and other tiny details?

[wishspirit]

Got the book out today from the library! Now I just have to get to reading! Hopefully have some time over the weekend!

[sc9500]

I
Is it the chroic researcher in me or do other people find themselves looking into the time period and other tiny details?
I think reading awakens imagination and curiosity by design. I actually looked up the origins of snuff yesterday.

[Bornteach]

Ok I am in too! It is a FAR cry from what I normally read but I am willing to give it a try for the experience.


Not to off topic but my favorite book of all time is a children's book. I would love to talk before our next book if anyone would be up for a mini-book group!

Nikki- Thank you so much! This is going to be fun!

[thunderbird1]

Another newbie (to this board) joining in! I'm a long time podcast listener who loves to read, and this sounds like fun.

I'm glad you're starting with this particular book. Though a fan of Michael Crichton's work, I haven't picked this one up yet because of the whole "published after death" controversy. I thought I read somewhere that he'd written the book years ago but had never published it for whatever reason, but that doesn't seem to be the case. And if it's got pirates, ships and caribbean islands, I'm in! I just put a hold on the book at my local library, so I'm looking forward to reading along with you all.

Thanks so much Nikki!

[bcvdreamer]

I'd like to join too. I just picked up the book at the library. I've never done a book club before, and I've never read any of Michael Crichton's books.


I'm excited!

Thanks for hosting, Nikki!

[Hankshouse]

I'm a newbie to the boards but a faithful listener! Just ordered my copy from the library and can't wait to start. Thanks Nikki, this is gonna be fun!

[*NikkiBell*]

Welcome to those of you coming on board!!

I'm enjoying everyone's thoughts on the controversey surrounding the publication of Pirate Latitudes. It's definitely a hot topic. If you haven't chimed in yet, see the original post below for some background links on the web and a question up for discussion.

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=35667226&postcount=33

I began reading last night. Although I haven't gotten far in just yet (it's parent-teacher conference week - ugh lol), I found myself very interested by a few things in the first chapter. On page 5, Crichton describes several articles Governor Almont uses to get clean:

"Richards set out the articles of toilet: a fresh basin of rosewater, another of crushed myrtle berries, and a third small bowl of tooth powder with the toothcloth alongside."

I remember first using rosewater as a skin regimen after visiting the Grand Floridian Spa where they used it during a facial. It is such a beautiful treatment and really awakens the senses. I had no idea it was used in the 1600s for cleansing purposes.

Crichton later reveals that the "tooth powder" is a concoction made of "powdered rabbit's head, pomegranate peel, and peach blossom," (6). Could you imagine cleaning your teeth with something like that? I know that pomegranate juice is all the rage right now, but the peel mixed with a rabbit's head? :scared1: We also learn that Almont used a "paste of olive oil, ashes, and ground earthworms to prevent his hair from turning white" (5). I think the earthworms would push me over the edge.

I also found his make up interesting. On page 7, it says he used white lead and vinegar to color his face along with a red dye of seaweed. Again, I found these products interesting. When I was in college, I studied medieval literature and learned much about the hygiene products used back then. I don't recall hearing about animal parts or vinegar being a part of the equation.

What are your thoughts on these hygiene products? If you lived in the 1600s, would you feel comfortable using them? What was the most interesting part of Chapter 1 for you?

I'm off to read Chapter 2. Happy reading! pirate:

[Grumpy's Old Lady]

I wouldn't be able to stand the smell from all those animal parts/earthworms, etc. I would have rather been a heathen/native of the island and tan from the tropical sun (even though we know that the sun is bad). But being a native, I wouldn't know any better.

On chapter 6 right now. So far, it is interesting.

Rebecca

[mainegal]

What are your thoughts on these hygiene products? If you lived in the 1600s, would you feel comfortable using them? What was the most interesting part of Chapter 1 for you?




I am listening to the book while driving, so I did not catch all details and ingredients of the "toilet". Thanks for writing them up for me, Nikki. What I remember was the "tooth cloth". No toothbrushes. And today, toothbrushes are SO complicated!

My guess is that the "ashes, and ground earthworms to prevent his hair from turning white" color his hair dark, rather than keep it from turing white.

A lot of the "makeup" was to cover up scars from the pox and plague, right? I imagine only the upper folk took such pains with their appearance. The rest were just "ugly" as he later describes the women who came over on the ship.

Whenever I read historical fiction, I always imagine that I would be one of the upper or ruling class. (Never mind that there were many more poor people and odds are that's where I would have ended up!) So, I guess that yes, I would be using those potions. And I would surely die from lead pisoning!

[Applemomma]

The earthworms got me too....that was my first EWWWWW moment. I always imagined I'd have been low-born so no access to these indulgences but for the most part I don't think that, unless you were an alchemist, you would have any idea what was in the mixture, let alone that it was killing you (lead). I think I'd have seen it as a hassle....just as I do now, hence I'm a no make up gal! :rotfl:

In truth I was a little worried about Chapter one because it wasn't catching me. That was until we got to the convict women (that may not have been chapter one though....I'm listening to it in audio)

[lttlmc3]

Okay everyone! I'm on the waiting list at the library! I can't wait to start it so I can join in! I'm just too poor to buy it!

[mainegal]

Okay everyone! I'm on the waiting list at the library! I can't wait to start it so I can join in! I'm just too poor to buy it!

Please don't think yourself as too poor to buy the book.
You are using your resources wisely. Not only are you not spending money on the pook, you don't have to give it storage space in our home after you have read it. (Yes, I am a librarian.)

I hope you get the book soon and we will all soon be reading and discussing in about the same place.

I am listening. Just started disc two of eight. It is nine hours long. I am really enjoying how the narrator voices the different charactres.

I am hoping there will be more about the women who came over on the ship. But I have an idea this is not really "their story".

[PinkBudgie]

I'm sure we would all be using whatever is common for the day and class that we lived in. And don't forget the leeches! These are the details I like. And yes, sometimes I do go looking up things like to find out if that is really true. I like reading about the everyday life of people in historic times.

He definately shows the less glamorous side of history. Which is what I like about this book and also the Time Line book he wrote. We often have this fairytale Disney image of the past (and I enjoy those versions too obviously!) but it wasn't all charming and we would probably be shocked if we were to actually meet someone from the 1600s even if they were considered the upper class.

[sc9500]

Please don't think yourself as too poor to buy the book.
I am listening. Just started disc two of eight. It is nine hours long. I am really enjoying how the narrator voices the different charactres.



The book also comes on one disc mp3
He's the same guy who read Dean Konntz's Frankenstein trilogy - his voice is deeeeeeeeeeeeeep.

Nikki - since we know this will be a movie in the future - should we nominate actors to fit the characters?

[steamboat will]

HEY! all
Nikkibelle, just heard about the book club on the podcast. Kevin mentioned you'd be putting a schedule together to say by what date we should all read to a certain chapter so we can all discuss the same stuff. sounds like a good idea, is this whats happening.

Getting my copy tomorrow, in paper!!! that stuff that existed before the kindle. O i so need a kindle.

SW

[*NikkiBell*]

HEY! all
Nikkibelle, just heard about the book club on the podcast. Kevin mentioned you'd be putting a schedule together to say by what date we should all read to a certain chapter so we can all discuss the same stuff. sounds like a good idea, is this whats happening.

Getting my copy tomorrow, in paper!!! that stuff that existed before the kindle. O i so need a kindle.

SW

Welcome! I am trying to get a hold on how often everyone can read so I only put one date up thus far, March 13th. We're shooting to have read Part I by then. The discussion will go focus on that section from hereon and then we'll move to the second section.

Trust me, I am a paper kinda gal myself. I am reading the old-fashioned way as well. ;)

[Applemomma]

We’ve mentioned earthworms and leeches but how about that oil of a red haired dog concoction! :crazy2:

[*NikkiBell*]

Good one! I forgot about that! -hurl-

I like the idea of casting the movie. Anyone have ideas so far for who could play each character? I'm not that far in yet and am not sure what my choices will be.

[georgemoe]

Okay everyone! I'm on the waiting list at the library! I can't wait to start it so I can join in! I'm just too poor to buy it!

What about ebook format Michelle? I got it from my library that way.

[KittyKitty]

Michael Crichton is one of my favorites,started reading him way back with Andromeda Strain. Seems like they all had a message to them.

I'm on the waiting list at the library,so may not start for awhile, but will be there for the discussions!

Thanks so much for starting this book club!

[ScubaD]

Welcome to those of you coming on board!!

I'm enjoying everyone's thoughts on the controversey surrounding the publication of Pirate Latitudes. It's definitely a hot topic. If you haven't chimed in yet, see the original post below for some background links on the web and a question up for discussion.

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=35667226&postcount=33

I began reading last night. Although I haven't gotten far in just yet (it's parent-teacher conference week - ugh lol), I found myself very interested by a few things in the first chapter. On page 5, Crichton describes several articles Governor Almont uses to get clean:

"Richards set out the articles of toilet: a fresh basin of rosewater, another of crushed myrtle berries, and a third small bowl of tooth powder with the toothcloth alongside."

I remember first using rosewater as a skin regimen after visiting the Grand Floridian Spa where they used it during a facial. It is such a beautiful treatment and really awakens the senses. I had no idea it was used in the 1600s for cleansing purposes.

Crichton later reveals that the "tooth powder" is a concoction made of "powdered rabbit's head, pomegranate peel, and peach blossom," (6). Could you imagine cleaning your teeth with something like that? I know that pomegranate juice is all the rage right now, but the peel mixed with a rabbit's head? :scared1: We also learn that Almont used a "paste of olive oil, ashes, and ground earthworms to prevent his hair from turning white" (5). I think the earthworms would push me over the edge.

I also found his make up interesting. On page 7, it says he used white lead and vinegar to color his face along with a red dye of seaweed. Again, I found these products interesting. When I was in college, I studied medieval literature and learned much about the hygiene products used back then. I don't recall hearing about animal parts or vinegar being a part of the equation.

What are your thoughts on these hygiene products? If you lived in the 1600s, would you feel comfortable using them? What was the most interesting part of Chapter 1 for you?

I'm off to read Chapter 2. Happy reading! pirate:

I noticed that right off too. I am thinking the author is attempting to develop an attitude of this character as being "better" than others. This governor, on a "god-forsaken" island, where the smells are wretched as soon as you leave the mansion wants to be more than he deserves. Will this attitude come into play later? Will this attitude destroy him? Is he deserving of such a life?

[Applemomma]

I noticed that right off too. I am thinking the author is attempting to develop an attitude of this character as being "better" than others. This governor, on a "god-forsaken" island, where the smells are wretched as soon as you leave the mansion wants to be more than he deserves. Will this attitude come into play later? Will this attitude destroy him? Is he deserving of such a life?

I think it starts to paint the picture of a man who is doing the best he can given the situation he finds himself in; that even though he finds himself on that "god forsaken island" he is not willing to do with less or tolerate less...which does come into play later.

[Minnie&Mickey]

I downloaded a sample of this to my Kindle, but just couldn't get into it. I'm very excited about the Book Club, so I might have to give it one more try. Thanks for organizing this, Nikki!

[DisneyKevin]

Having a bpot pf sciatica today...so there is a lot of time to sit and read.

I'm enjoying the story very much.

I would not have been a good pirate.

[*NikkiBell*]

I love this discussion of what type of a person you would be during the 1600s. I'd like to think that I'd be born into the priviledged class, but know the likelihood of that happening is very slim. I'm very attracted to that lifestyle though; who isn't? I love the concept of dressing up everyday, having servants, a large mansion, etc. I also adore this time period's clothing especially those for women. Ahh, a girl can dream. :cloud9:

I noticed that right off too. I am thinking the author is attempting to develop an attitude of this character as being "better" than others. This governor, on a "god-forsaken" island, where the smells are wretched as soon as you leave the mansion wants to be more than he deserves. Will this attitude come into play later? Will this attitude destroy him? Is he deserving of such a life?

I think it starts to paint the picture of a man who is doing the best he can given the situation he finds himself in; that even though he finds himself on that "god forsaken island" he is not willing to do with less or tolerate less...which does come into play later.

I have mixed feelings about the governor. He definitely has the snooty air to him and I agree that he wants to be more than what it appears he deserves. I am wondering if this would come up later on as well. A type of attitude like this can definitely be lethal. Just think of Macbeth and all of his and his wife's troubles by the end of the play. Their thirst for power and fame led to catastrophe, and this is so common in literature.


I'm about halfway through Part I at this point. How is everyone else doing? I'd like us to discuss as we read so even if you are only a few chapters or pages in, stop by to tell us your thoughts. We're set to finish the first part exactly one week from today. Feel free to go ahead if you are ready to, but be sure to pop over here and share your thoughts on Part I.

Happy Reading!!!

[Applemomma]

Having a bpot pf sciatica today...so there is a lot of time to sit and read.

I'm enjoying the story very much.

I would not have been a good pirate.

Try the oil of a red haired dog Kevin! If it worked for gout maybe it will work for your sciatica!

Again I say......:crazy2:

[Applemomma]

I love this discussion of what type of a person you would be during the 1600s. I'd like to think that I'd be born into the priviledged class, but know the likelihood of that happening is very slim. I'm very attracted to that lifestyle though; who isn't? I love the concept of dressing up everyday, having servants, a large mansion, etc. I also adore this time period's clothing especially those for women. Ahh, a girl can dream. :cloud9:


I would think it would all get a bit boring after awhile though. What else would you have to do with your day after you made your "toilette"and gave the servants your orders for dinner. I think you'd have to fill a lot of your time writing letters and doing embroidery. I can see me stretching the norms of society and mucking about in the horse barn or playing dice with the servant boys :) I wouldn't make a very good "Lady"


I have mixed feelings about the governor. He definitely has the snooty air to him and I agree that he wants to be more than what it appears he deserves. I am wondering if this would come up later on as well. A type of attitude like this can definitely be lethal. Just think of Macbeth and all of his and his wife's troubles by the end of the play. Their thirst for power and fame led to catastrophe, and this is so common in literature.

Without giving too much away his attitude comes into play at the end but perhaps not in the way you think :upsidedow

I'm about halfway through Part I at this point. How is everyone else doing? I'd like us to discuss as we read so even if you are only a few chapters or pages in, stop by to tell us your thoughts. We're set to finish the first part exactly one week from today. Feel free to go ahead if you are ready to, but be sure to pop over here and share your thoughts on Part I.

Happy Reading!!!

Nikki....could you do me a favour and tell me what the title of Part 2 is? Since I'm reading in audio I don't have the book to flip through and I'm scared I'll mention something too far ahead. The title of Part 2 might give me better reference as to what part of the story we're about to start discussing....pm me if you think it would be too much of a spoiler......Thanks!

[*NikkiBell*]

Lmao Good one. Maybe some ground earthworms would help too?

Part II is Chapter 14 - "The Black Ship." :)

[*NikkiBell*]

Here are a few more links to help us imagine Port Royal happenings in Part I. pirate:

Port Royal Maps
http://nautarch.tamu.edu/portroyal/archives/maps.htm


Logwood Cutting Info.
http://ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/269963/Logwood_and_Dye_The_Birth_of_B.html

[PinkBudgie]

Those maps are interesting. They help you picture it better.

I'm afraid I finished parts one and two. I couldn't stop! I've only been reading just a little at bedtime each night but I'm a fast reader. :confused3 So last night I went back to another book to wait a little bit.

The thing that I always think of when I read books or see movies from that time period is that I would hate to be wearing those long dresses on a hot day! :)

[jpeka65844]

I would think it would all get a bit boring after awhile though. What else would you have to do with your day after you made your "toilette"and gave the servants your orders for dinner. I think you'd have to fill a lot of your time writing letters and doing embroidery. I can see me stretching the norms of society and mucking about in the horse barn or playing dice with the servant boys :) I wouldn't make a very good "Lady"



We had an interesting conversation in my ethics class about this subject. That, in earlier days which we considered opressive to females, the days before technology and modern household appliances which allowed a "lady" to do her own chores, women were typically more active outside the home and usually more "liberated".

The invention of modern household technology promoted a "do it yourself" attitude that kept more women at home and bound to the kitchen, if you know what I mean; resulting in a less liberated woman. Interesting viewpoint....

[PinkBudgie]

We had an interesting conversation in my ethics class about this subject. That, in earlier days which we considered opressive to females, the days before technology and modern household appliances which allowed a "lady" to do her own chores, women were typically more active outside the home and usually more "liberated".

The invention of modern household technology promoted a "do it yourself" attitude that kept more women at home and bound to the kitchen, if you know what I mean; resulting in a less liberated woman. Interesting viewpoint....

Well that goes with what I always thought: Now women "get" to work outside the home AND do the house hold chores because they are so "easy" (dishwasher, washing machine, etc.).

Now, if I went back to the 1600's and was the governer wife or upper crust and had severants I wouldn't mind some embroidery but I sure would miss my PC! Sometimes I wish I could just walk around during that time period- just to see.

[*NikkiBell*]

I'm afraid I finished parts one and two. I couldn't stop! I've only been reading just a little at bedtime each night but I'm a fast reader. :confused3 So last night I went back to another book to wait a little bit.

Feel free to keep reading! I actually finished Part I this afternoon. I also moved on to the beginning of Part II. Once everyone has the book, we can read a bit faster.

We had an interesting conversation in my ethics class about this subject. That, in earlier days which we considered opressive to females, the days before technology and modern household appliances which allowed a "lady" to do her own chores, women were typically more active outside the home and usually more "liberated".

The invention of modern household technology promoted a "do it yourself" attitude that kept more women at home and bound to the kitchen, if you know what I mean; resulting in a less liberated woman. Interesting viewpoint....

SPOILER - Commentary on Part I Below (Don't Read If You Haven't Finished)

That IS an interesting viewpoint. Let me make sure I am understanding correctly. The point of discussion was that modern household technology actually does the opposite of what it is meant (i.e. actually keeps women in the kitchen more than giving them more freedom)? Very interesting indeed.

I'm finding the role of women in Pirate Latitudes conflicting. The women who came over on the ship early on all seem interesting. Like Lyn said a few pages back, I'd be curious to hear their unique stories, but I do not think that is going to happen here.

Anne Sharp's character is also one I'm keeping watch on. At this point in the text, we do not really know much about her.

The girl could hardly have been more than fourteen or fifteen, with fair hair and a naturally pale complexion. Her eyes were blue and clear, with a certain odd, innocent amiability. She seemed entirely out of place in this churlish group (17).

Anne's description paints a picture of a mousy girl of pure innocence. However, we learn later on that she is far from it. She offers herself to both Governor Almont and Robert Hacklett. Although Governor Almont uses his "inspection" of the supposed stigmata as an excuse, Anne does not refuse his advances. She actually seems pleased with them afterwards as they discuss her life in London and what brought her to Jamaica (28-29). The situation is much different with Robert Hacklett. After asking Anne to deliver a letter regarding the governor's involvement with privateering, she offers herself to Hacklett willingly (79). This is despite her knowing that he was married, something that is obviously not sacred in Port Royal during the 1600s.

I am also conflicted by Mrs. Hacklett. She is first introduced as a "slender, dark, foreign-looking young woman" who sat rigidly during her husband's initial meeting with Almont. I pictured her as being just an obedient wife and was surprised by her seduction of Hunter later on in the text (67, 75). Are no relationships sacred during this time period or is this something that is limited to Port Royal?

[Applemomma]

More Part 1 discussion.....scroll fast if you aren't through it yet!

Interesting observation about women and the "do it yourself" generation! Can't say I disagree with that. It is interesting to speculate that with all that extra time women would have taken advantage of it to become as educated as they were able formally, and of course informally, and be much more informed of the times and politics then women would be only a few generations later as well.

I love Anne Sharpe. She's one of my favorite characters. The witch theme comes up again too but smells like one of those parts that the author might have expanded on. If he had no intention of doing that I'd find that kind of disappointing.

It occured to me while I was relistening to the introduction of Hunter's character that we're given that whole run down of what the governor does in the morning so we can see the difference between him and Hunter. The governor's routine takes more then an hour and Hunters takes on a few minutes. Sets the tone for how different they are as men, yet going for the same things.

Also thinking about the governors personality he is probably much different then other aristocrats in that he has a bt of respect for his scottish servant ("he's clean") in a time when the English and Scottish were becoming increasingly at odds. Also he's pretty bent on protecting Hunter from the lable of pirate ..... you really should hear in audio the whole scene with Hacklett's face in the food....the narrator does a fantastic job! :rotfl:

Thanks for the links Nikki....I was reading this afternoon about the earthquake that destroyed Port Royal in 1692. There was also a real Pirate LeClerc (the criminal that was hung in the first chapter) though he lived 100 years before the time setting of this book....such an interesting place no wonder so many stories have been set there.

[mainegal]

Are no relationships sacred during this time period or is this something that
is limited to Port Royal?


Nope! Especially in the middle / upper classes, I think marriages were to make a match to get ahead, to enlarge family wealth through money or land. Lots of "fooling around" on the side with both partners knowing, but ignoring.

[mainegal]

..... you really should hear in audio the whole scene with Hacklett's face in the food....the narrator does a fantastic job! :rotfl:



Oh, yes! I am listening in the car. The narrator is great. Hacklett's voice coming from the plateful of food was fabulous! I read the book in print last night and it wasn't as good for me at all. I ended up skimming some passages and I ma sure I missed things. I will continue to listen. This was I get all the words.

[jpeka65844]

I currently reading the parts where Hunter is rounding up his crew. Anyone else thinks it plays like Ocean's 11?? ;) Everyone has a specialty???

As long as we're casting the movie, I see Jeremey Renner or James Purefoy as Hunter.....Hmmm.....

[Bornteach]

I found it fascinating about the plague and how everyone was surprised by this!

Also, the character of Whisper and how he lives in a backroom of a "respectable inn" was fascinating to me!


I think I am a little further ahead but has anyone got to the description of how Hunter's brother was killed???


:scared1::scared1::scared1:

[PinkBudgie]

More Part 1 discussion.....scroll fast if you aren't through it yet!

Also he's pretty bent on protecting Hunter from the lable of pirate ..... you really should hear in audio the whole scene with Hacklett's face in the food....the narrator does a fantastic job! :rotfl:

I could just picture him with his face in his plate. :lmao:
I think the govenor isn't protecting Hunter because he is being honorable but because Hunter is a sorce of money for the govenor and the king. That wimpy guy doesn't understand how it is done on the islands. They are pretty much left to themselves and expected to send money to the king. If Hunter were called a pirate than the govenor would be associating with pirates so that is why that label can't be used. They can do what they want as long as they simply maintain a certain appearance. I'm interested to see what comes of the conflict between Hacklett and the govenor.

I found it fascinating about the plague and how everyone was surprised by this!

Also, the character of Whisper and how he lives in a backroom of a "respectable inn" was fascinating to me!


I think I am a little further ahead but has anyone got to the description of how Hunter's brother was killed???


:scared1::scared1::scared1:

Yep, read that and tried to forget. :eek:

[Bornteach]

Ok, I had my first audible gasp today!


I have no idea where people are in their reading......



Lets just say I was SHOCKED at who the Captain was....

Anyone else??

[bedillamouse]

I also don't normally post but would like to join the book club. I will begin reading the book soon! Thanks for setting this up!

[Applemomma]

I think I am a little further ahead but has anyone got to the description of how Hunter's brother was killed???


We find out in Part 2 but it isn't really dwelled on but adds to the understanding of why he's more anxious to attack this particular Spaniard then perhaps another.

[Applemomma]

Ok, I had my first audible gasp today!


I have no idea where people are in their reading......



Lets just say I was SHOCKED at who the Captain was....

Anyone else??

Read the whole thing twice now in audio (listened to part one for the third time today....yes I'm a little odd that way) .....got to give me a few more hints.....what part?

[Bornteach]

Wait.....part two?

I thought I was still in part one. Ok, I don't want to post out of school!


I will wait.

[Applemomma]

Wait.....part two?

I thought I was still in part one. Ok, I don't want to post out of school!


I will wait.

I believe Part 1 ends just as they set sail for the expedition (Nikki correct me if I'm wrong). We find out about Hunters brother in a "discussion" he has with the enemy in Part 2.

You might be thinking of the story The Jew tells of his son which is indeed :scared1:

I've stopped my mp3 player at the end of Part 1 and I'm not hitting play again until we get there as a group so I don't get confused as to what happened when ..... until then we talk in code ;)

[wildfan1473]

Trying to get caught up here...

What are your thoughts on these hygiene products? If you lived in the 1600s, would you feel comfortable using them? What was the most interesting part of Chapter 1 for you?

Earthworms?!?! Oil of a red-haired dog? OMG, I have to use gloves when handling raw meat :lmao: This girl is on sensory overload with the items being used! I could not even begin to imagine brushing my teeth with powdered rabbit’s head, or drying my teeth with a silk cloth. As far as the other toiletries, like another poster said, I avoid wearing makeup now, so I’m guessing I would look like one of the women prisoners, lol.

The most interesting part of Chapter 1 would be how much the Governor actually did as far as his toilet was concerned…how many men do you know today that go through all of this work for their appearance? Quite ironic, I think, given this conversation:

We had an interesting conversation in my ethics class about this subject. That, in earlier days which we considered opressive to females, the days before technology and modern household appliances which allowed a "lady" to do her own chores, women were typically more active outside the home and usually more "liberated".

The invention of modern household technology promoted a "do it yourself" attitude that kept more women at home and bound to the kitchen, if you know what I mean; resulting in a less liberated woman. Interesting viewpoint....

Are no relationships sacred during this time period or is this something that is limited to Port Royal?

In most of the historical fiction I have read, having extra marital affairs is quite common, particularly among the Royalty and their Court. Marriages seem to have been made for position and power, not for love; sex (can I say that here? :confused3 ) is strictly for pleasure, and, in some cases, a cure for boredom.

[*NikkiBell*]

Yup, you're right. Part I ends just as they are setting sail.

More later :)

[beachwarmer]

Hi all. I just finished reading Part I and hope to join in on the discussion.

It is interesting to me the choices that the women characters are making. Anne seems to be using men for her survival. Emily Hacklett is using men as well. It is implied that she and the King had relations. It is interesting that in Port Royale she picked Hunter over the Govenor as the power individual in the colony. She seems to have a better understanding of the colony politics and power structure than her husband. It will be interesting to see if she made the correct choice.

[lttlmc3]

Yay! I was finally able to get the book from the library! I'm going to start it n now!!

[mainegal]

A couple thoughts...

This is not a book I would ordinarily read. If I was not listening to it, I am sure I would not continue. The reader so makes the book come alive for me!

Last time I got off Pirates of the Caribbean, I had a very uneasy and uncomfortable feeling. It was not a pleasant ride for me. I did not enjoy the glorification of pirates. They were not nice people. They treated other people cruelly.

I am getting the same feeling with this book. The descriptions of death and torture turn my stomach. I am not enjoying at all! If I was reading the printed page, I am sure I would skim over. Instead, I have this great reader describing all the gory details! Aurrgghhh!

[Plutes]

I'm so upset I didn't realize you guys were doing this sooner! That's what I get for being away from the boards for a couple of weeks!

I'm in the middle of another book at the moment, but I'll definitely try to catch up with you all once I charge up my kindle!

This is a great idea, and Nikki, you're doing an amazing job! I have to laugh whenever I read your posts on here, because they just sound so...ummm....professional? Is that the right word? LOL You sound like a book club expert!

I hope I get a chance to catch up soon! If not, I'll definitely be joining you all for Round 2!

[wildfan1473]

I found it fascinating about the plague and how everyone was surprised by this!

Also, the character of Whisper and how he lives in a backroom of a "respectable inn" was fascinating to me!


I think I am a little further ahead but has anyone got to the description of how Hunter's brother was killed???


:scared1::scared1::scared1:

:scared1::scared1::scared1: OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was quite a visual that I think I could have done without!

As far as the discussion of whether or not this should have been published without his consent after his death, and the questions about whether or not he did actually write this...I agree, this is not a normal topic for MC. However, the attention to detail and the use of the time-specific language are very much his style. He avidly researches the subjects of his books and leaves no stone unturned. It will be interesting to see where all of this leads.

[mainegal]

I think I am a little further ahead but has anyone got to the description of how Hunter's brother was killed???

:scared1::scared1::scared1:

And it only gets worse!

But, please, don't let that stop you from continuing with the book. I am sure the descriptions of death and torture are true to the times. And is perhaps still happening now? I just don't like thinking about it. And I don't enjoying reading about it.

[DisneyKevin]

I have been laid up the last few days with a wicked bout of sciatica.

I can lay down or stand comfortably. Sitting is an issue.

That all being said....I have finished The Pirate Latitudes (I'm sorry Nikki.....it was that or watch Paula Deen "ball" shrimp)

I think this is definitely Michael Crichton's work. It reads very much like his other works.

I think this is much more of an adventure yarn, then a historical work about pirates.

Pirates were not nice people. That's what makes them pirates.

[Hankshouse]

Ok, I had my first audible gasp today!


I have no idea where people are in their reading......



Lets just say I was SHOCKED at who the Captain was....

Anyone else??


ME! I know we're jumping a tiny bit ahead...but I was completely surprised. Did not see that one coming. Also, regarding "affairs of the heart" - let's keep in mind - no tv + no computers = keeping yourself entertained, whatever it takes! As far as the concoctions used for toilette are concerned, people back in those days must have been immune to stink :rotfl2:

[jpeka65844]

I can totally deal with the anti-hero thing. Hunter is not a good guy, nor does he care to be. I think history and literature "romanticizes" pirates into making them "scoundrels with a heart of gold" and Hunter really isn't that. Or isn't yet. Maybe MC will prove me wrong.

But Hunter's command to The Moor at the end of Part I....that's a reminder that these are not the "the good guys" But in truth, history rarely has "good guys" and "bad guys"; they're usually just "guys". Call me a cynic.

AND, not to give away anything, but some of Hunter's actions (or lack thereof) in Part II also remind us that he's not in this for the warm fuzzies.

The more I read, the more I'm gunning for James Purefoy as Hunter!! Who, by the way, according to IMDB has played Blackbeard in a UK made-for-TV movie!!

[sc9500]

What do you guys think of Clive Owen as Hunter?

[hmonkeyruns]

I have to admit, I'm struggling with this book.

I have loved most of MC's novels but this one is just not grabbing me at all. If not for this thread, I probably would have given up -- or just skimmed over it to get to the general idea.

I've finished Part 1 and Part 2 and somehow it just seems completely flat. I'm not invested in any of the characters, the gory stuff just seems in there for shock value and there doesn't seem to be enough of a build up to really excite me about what's going on. Part 2 is pretty exciting and yet, I just don't care.

On a side note, I just watched The Guns of Navaronne a week or two ago and I'm pretty sure that MC borrowed heavily from that movie/book to come up with the Matanceros fortress. Maybe that's why this isn't grabbing me -- in many ways I feel like I already know what's going to happen. I don't want to say too much because the comparisons to the movie come almost entirely from Part 2.

[lttlmc3]

Just started today and I'm already 115 pages into it. I think its really good and its a quick read.

[*NikkiBell*]

Hi All!

I've been watching all of your posts over the past few days and it seems like we are moving full steam ahead. If it's alright with everyone, I'd like to update our current reading schedule and set the next few deadlines. It seems as if most, if not all, are finished with Part I. Some are even finished with Part II, myself included. Kevin, being the "Wannabe Genius" that he is, read all of the parts! :goodvibes That's great! If you aren't done just yet, don't stress. Catch up at your own pace and you know where the gabbing will be. ;)

UPDATED Reading & Discussion Schedule as of March 10

Part II - March 13
Part III - March 17
Part IV - March 22

Again, if you are one of the "book clubbers" who started a few days ago because you were waiting to get the novel, please don't stress. If you can get your reading done on time great; if not, that's fine as well. I don't want to push anyone or make this less enjoyable. This is all in good fun. :woohoo:

In order to keep our discussions moving smoothly, please feel free to comment on where you are in your reading. This could be a page into a certain part, halfway through, or at the end. If at all possible, try to post a "Spoiler Warning" if you are commenting on a part of the text that has not been read yet according to our schedule. This will help keep the discussions lively for those that are ahead while protecting upcoming events in the novel from being revealed to those who are "on schedule."

If anyone has questions or other suggestions, please feel free to message me either here on the DIS or on FB. I'm really enjoying what we are doing and think this is such an awesome group. We're obviously learning as we go along for the first round, and I'm taking notice of how things are going so we can improve with the next selection.

Happy Reading, DIS Bookies!!! Hmm, that has a nice ring to it, don't you think? :thumbsup2

Nikki

[georgemoe]

ME! I know we're jumping a tiny bit ahead...but I was completely surprised. Did not see that one coming. Also, regarding "affairs of the heart" - let's keep in mind - no tv + no computers = keeping yourself entertained, whatever it takes! As far as the concoctions used for toilette are concerned, people back in those days must have been immune to stink :rotfl2:

That is too funny. Needs three of these. :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

I'm about two thirds through and enjoying it. I'm not a big discussion type but hope to get on board with that soon enough.

[Bornteach]

I agree on the stink factor.....just the descriptions are a little stomach turning. I like the foreshadowing as it always keeps me guessing and I keep waiting to hear how it will tie in.


I am fascinated by the female/male pirate roll. How she (he?) grew up as a he and how it will benefit the crew later.


I will admit that I have also read the entire book as it was so far from what I typically read, I could not stop!


Does anyone else want to reach through the book and slap Hacklett?

[KatheeME]

Hi everyone :)

I finished the book last night. No spoilers here, but I have it was only an okay book, and my favorite part was the Epilogue! :)

[georgemoe]

I agree on the stink factor.....just the descriptions are a little stomach turning. I like the foreshadowing as it always keeps me guessing and I keep waiting to hear how it will tie in.


I am fascinated by the female/male pirate roll. How she (he?) grew up as a he and how it will benefit the crew later.


I will admit that I have also read the entire book as it was so far from what I typically read, I could not stop!


Does anyone else want to reach through the book and slap Hacklett?

Which one Kristin? Mr. or Mrs? :) I'm only through 2/3 of the book so not sure what you are actually referring to. Obviously something is going to happen.

I also have a spoiler suggestion. Maybe we hide the text by using a white font if we have a spoiler. Just about everyone knows how to do it.

[mainegal]

I am listening, so I do not have the same sense of how far along I am the way I do when I am flipping pages.

The reader just started part 4!

I am still enjoying the book. The adventure yarn is a new genre for me. I am so glad I am listening to a great narrator instead of reading. I highly recommend audio books.

[Bornteach]

Which one Kristin? Mr. or Mrs? :) I'm only through 2/3 of the book so not sure what you are actually referring to. Obviously something is going to happen.

I also have a spoiler suggestion. Maybe we hide the text by using a white font if we have a spoiler. Just about everyone knows how to do it.

That is a good idea George!

I meant Robert Hacklett. Getting off the boat and immediately questioning all, I wanted to smack him! LOL Take a moment yeesh! as for his wife.....that part almost smacked of a soap opera!

[*NikkiBell*]

Which one Kristin? Mr. or Mrs? :) I'm only through 2/3 of the book so not sure what you are actually referring to. Obviously something is going to happen.

I also have a spoiler suggestion. Maybe we hide the text by using a white font if we have a spoiler. Just about everyone knows how to do it.

That's a great idea, Jorge! ;) We can either put a spoiler warning notice on the thread like a few of us have done over the past couple of days, or just write our comments in white. Either way works! :)

I am listening, so I do not have the same sense of how far along I am the way I do when I am flipping pages.

The reader just started part 4!

I am still enjoying the book. The adventure yarn is a new genre for me. I am so glad I am listening to a great narrator instead of reading. I highly recommend audio books.

I'm not a fan of audio books replacing the real thing. In my classroom, I do use the audio version while the children are following along with the actual book. This isn't done frequently though - maybe 1-3 times per book. I can see how it might liven up certain parts of Pirate Latitudes though because of all the different characters, backgrounds, etc.

[tammyroo]

Hi all...
I didn't have high expectations about this book but find that I'm already half way through after a couple of days of reading. It took me longer to pick it up and start reading than it has to actually get that far. I'm enjoying it. I'm a Crichton rookie (unless you count movies) so I think I might have to read some of his other novels now.
I like the realism...so much so that our family is going to a Real Pirates exhibit in Norfolk tomorrow. I've always had a fascination about pirates...probably because I grew up on the coast and Blackbeard was actually hung in Virginia...lots of pirate lore around here.

[sc9500]

I'm not a fan of audio books replacing the real thing.
I think they complement the real thing -- if you have any kind of commute they take you elsewhere and most have excellent readers. My rule is that the audio book has to be something I want to read but would never have the time. Ive gone thru many books that I would never have been able to look at.

[Applemomma]

I think they complement the real thing -- if you have any kind of commute they take you elsewhere and most have excellent readers. My rule is that the audio book has to be something I want to read but would never have the time. Ive gone thru many books that I would never have been able to look at.

I agree. I love to read but with my busy life there just isn't enough hours in the day. I have a book by the bed because it's about the only place I can expect to hold a book for a decent length of time...unfortunatly sleep usually wins. :rolleyes1

With audio books I can be read to while I'm working in the orchard, doing dishes, walking the dog. I've managed to read at least 20 books this year and most of them pretty heafty as I choose the ones that are longer in length (Pillars of the Earth or Under the Dome for example are close to 30 hours in length). I can't do this though with books I've already read because I always have that picture in my head of what the characters sound like and noone else's voice will substitute that! Much the same way the movie actor never looks like the hero you read about.

Both my daughters love to read. They have book shelves full and we always read to them as little kids....now I'm letting someone read to me as an adult. :cloud9: Doesn't mean I value the printed word any less. After all some one had to put the words on paper to give to someone to read aloud! :) And with a period piece like Pirate Latitudes I find the accents the narrator does help transport me back to the 1600's. But that's because it happens to be a good narrator....

Back to the high seas......does anyone wonder if Hunter wasn't faking his inability to swim? Many sailors couldn't....

And as far as the stink....I chuckled at Hunter telling Mrs. Hacklett it was unhealthy to bathe....there was actually a period in time (1300's maybe) where it was considered a sin against God to bathe......thank heavens we've come along way!!!!

[*NikkiBell*]

Hi All,

I think all of us are getting a little bit :offtopic: which is partially my fault for responding to a previous post about audio books. Let's return to the high seas! pirate:

By this point, everyone should have read Part I and will have read Part II by tomorrow. What is your impression of the first two sections of Pirate Latitudes? Which characters, if any, can you relate to at this point in the novel and why?

[PinkBudgie]

Hi All,

I think all of us are getting a little bit :offtopic: which is partially my fault for responding to a previous post about audio books. Let's return to the high seas! pirate:

By this point, everyone should have read Part I and will have read Part II by tomorrow. What is your impression of the first two sections of Pirate Latitudes? Which characters, if any, can you relate to at this point in the novel and why?

Well, so far so good. I'm enjoying the book but I don't "relate" to any characters because they are all very different from me. I just like going along for the adventure. I don't know what page number I'm on because I'm reading it on Kindle but it says I've read 45% of it. I'm interested to see what happens next.

[jpeka65844]

Hi All,

I think all of us are getting a little bit :offtopic: which is partially my fault for responding to a previous post about audio books. Let's return to the high seas! pirate:

By this point, everyone should have read Part I and will have read Part II by tomorrow. What is your impression of the first two sections of Pirate Latitudes? Which characters, if any, can you relate to at this point in the novel and why?

I dont' really "relate" to any of the characters, persay. MC is not a character writer. He's done little to develop any of these characters. The most dimensional to me is probably the Governer and that's about it.

It's something I was thinking of as I was contemplating a movie version. They'd really have to do some embellishing to get viewers to "buy in" to any of these people. I like the Lazue vibe; that's just cool.

And after reading Part III, (not to give anything away....) I'm sticking with my theory that this is a Pirate Ocean's 11!!!

[BriarRosie]

I dont' really "relate" to any of the characters, persay. MC is not a character writer. He's done little to develop any of these characters. The most dimensional to me is probably the Governer and that's about it.

It's something I was thinking of as I was contemplating a movie version. They'd really have to do some embellishing to get viewers to "buy in" to any of these people. I like the Lazue vibe; that's just cool.

And after reading Part III, (not to give anything away....) I'm sticking with my theory that this is a Pirate Ocean's 11!!!

It's funny that you should call it a Pirate's Ocean's 11. I thought the book was heading into familiar formula territory established by the Magnificent 7 (itself based on a 7 Samurai thing from Japan). Or any other buddy movie. I thought the characters were written to be interesting "characters" in their own right.

I immediately figured out that the Governor was a very sharp tack, figuring out politics very, very quickly. His new secretary? Far from it. Dumb as a bunch of rocks if he thinks the king would want to stop the privateering gravy train. My gaydar went off about him during one scene, too.

Hunter is written as the big anti-hero, and I do like him. He's got the same street smarts as the Governor. The only thing about the book I have to deal with are the harsh realities of violence and sadistic moments.

Overall I'm enjoying the book so far.

[mainegal]

Lets just say I was SHOCKED at who the Captain was....



I have listened to 6 of 8 discs. I have scanned the rest of the book in print to the end. I still do not know what is meant above.

If it is a spoiler, please PM me and let me know.


Of the characters - I like Lazue. Even though she moves about as a male, they know she is a female. It is bad luck to have a woman on a ship. She questioned Hunter, did he really want her on the voyage? Hunter wanted her because she has special skills.

[Bornteach]

Lyn- I meant the Spaniard Captain when the Cassandra is captured. I expected that fight to come much later when they tried to overtake the fort.

I enjoy Lazue as well! She is feisty. I am fascinated by how easily the people of the time excepted her being a woman but living as a man.....

[tammyroo]

Hi All

By this point, everyone should have read Part I and will have read Part II by tomorrow. What is your impression of the first two sections of Pirate Latitudes? Which characters, if any, can you relate to at this point in the novel and why?

I found it a quick read. Not a lot of character development. I have found his characterization of every single woman in the book as a prostitute or as acting like one particularly distasteful. What is that about?
I can't really relate to any of the characters either. I'm relating it more to experiences I've had at museums, travel, etc which enhances the experience of reading the novel from a historical perspective.
FYI....At the Real Pirates exhibit today I saw a lot of the things talked about in the book like the grenades. I also learned what careening is....mentioned in the book in Part V, beginning of Ch 32: it the process of beaching the ship and hauling it over on its side to clean off barnacles, repairing the hull etc and left the ship and crew in a very vulnerable position. Never knew that and wouldn't have had any idea what the author was talking about if I hadn't seen the exhibit today.

[jpeka65844]

There were also a lot of sailing words that I had no idea what they were. I should've googled them, but I'm lazy. :laughing:

I told my hubby this and he said "Try reading Master and Commander sometime; that one's REALLY hard!!"

Just finished it and would agree that it's a great adventure novel. MC sets up his action scenarios so well and they play pretty nail-bitingly. Is that a word??

And yes, I'd agree with the PP's previous comment about the women, BUT the men are no saints either. Everyone is pretty dispicable in their own right.

[Applemomma]

By this point, everyone should have read Part I and will have read Part II by tomorrow. What is your impression of the first two sections of Pirate Latitudes? Which characters, if any, can you relate to at this point in the novel and why?

Not sure if I relate to them or not but I think the story behind both Anne and Lazue could be stand alone novels on their own! Love these two characters.

I think I've always tended to romanticize privateers because I'm a direct descendant of a few (rum runners too) and I like to think my relatives could have held their own on the Cassandra!

[*NikkiBell*]

I agree about Lazue and Anne. I'm really, really surprised that Lazue is even accepted at all because of her living like a man. During the 1600s, that isn't necessarily that was well received.

Anne's character intrigues me. I'd love to know more about her backstory, i.e. the one that involved her being labeled a "witch." That could definitely be a book onto itself. She's a very mysterious type of character and I think that the potential for depth is strong.

[Applemomma]

I kind of got the sense from reading other time period books that being labled a witch was sort of a fall back accusation....especially if you were a strong minded woman. Best part of labling someone a witch (for the accuser!) was that they only way to prove she wasn't was basically to kill her!

The witch reference comes up again and sadly this is one of those areas I wish MC had expanded on but of course that will never happen now.

[Applemomma]

It never ceases to amaze me how inventive men can be when it comes to torture.....I hate rats.....

pirate:

[BriarRosie]

Boy, I was so wrong about my first impression of one of the characters, now that I've finished the book. I also found another typical "formula" I've seen in movies by the end of the book.

And I think the only female characters I liked where Anne and Lazue. Both garnered a lot of respect, even when they had to do things a bit unorthodox.

[A.Mickey]

I don't know if I am late or not, I didn't want to read through the whole thread and have secrets reveled, but I just picked this book up at the library today! I am a couple weeks behind on the podcast and just heard this mentioned. Thank you Kevin and Nikki!! What a great idea! Gotta go catch up on some reading.

[bcvdreamer]

I’m enjoying the book, but like a pp said, there are a lot of sailing terms that I meant to look up, but didn’t yet.

I can’t relate to the characters either, but I enjoy their colorful personalities. I wish MC would have gone deeper with the characters, and like mentioned previously, especially the women. I find myself waiting for more character development, but then realize it’s an adventure story.

I like how Hunter selected each crew member for their special “skills” and how their survival depended on those skills. Even though they’re terrible people, they still had to depend on each other. I wouldn’t have trusted one of those characters, but they didn’t have as hard of a time with trust as I thought that they would.

Does anyone else picture Haiti in their mind whenever Port Royal is described? I guess it’s because of how the odor and lack of order is described in the news and in the book.

[*NikkiBell*]

I agree, Lisa! I really enjoyed the section describing each of Hunter's crew. I also think it has an Ocean's 11 feel to it like someone said above. I'm particularly intrigued by the doctor. Something tells me he is bad news.

[BriarRosie]

I got to thinking a lot about something that was nagging me about the book in the back of my mind, and I finally figured out what it was. The predictable movie-like plot devices. Just like someone else mentioned in Ocean's 11, and I mentioned in The Magnificent Seven / Seven Samurai. (And another movie plot device I didn't mention because it happens near the end of the book.)

Not only did I find myself bored by the plot devices, it finally dawned on me that I was bothered with the book because it started to read like a screenplay. I hated that.

The only semi-surprise I had was from a character I wrote off as insignificant at the time. But I can't mention that until people have finished the book. Poetic justice was served, but that seemed clichéd to me, more the pity.

[tammyroo]

I agree about Lazue and Anne. I'm really, really surprised that Lazue is even accepted at all because of her living like a man. During the 1600s, that isn't necessarily that was well received.

Anne's character intrigues me. I'd love to know more about her backstory, i.e. the one that involved her being labeled a "witch." That could definitely be a book onto itself. She's a very mysterious type of character and I think that the potential for depth is strong.

It appears that MC is very accurate when depicting life, pirates, weaponry etc. I learned that there were 2 female pirates that were very well known and highly respected during the Golden Age of Piracy. I was surprised but it makes sense if society was so restrictive for females that they would want to be part of a more democratic system. Still. Lazue seems to be an accurate representation....the real life ones were so fierce they were put on the landing team (or whatever it was called) and those pirates were known to be the most fierce and ruthless.

Does anyone else wonder why the pirates/stories about pirates from long ago are so much more fascinating/intriguing but modern day pirates are loathsome and frightening?

To you MC fans...does this novel read like his others? I agree with PP that it seems like it was written with a movie in mind, but he never sent it off to publish for a reason...maybe he wasn't done with it or maybe editors made changes??

[lttlmc3]

Can I just say how excited about this book club I am. I've finished the book and really enjoyed it. I would never have read it if it wasn't for this book club. I love the idea of going beyond my usual boundries of book picks.

[miksilver]

I am so glad that other people are reading this book and thinking Ocean's 11 like I did. When I finished reading Part 1 I looked at my DH and said, "So far this book is Ocean's 11 meets Pirates".

I've read a bunch of other MC novels in the past and I have to say the beginning of this novel is very much in his style. It's fast and descriptive. But when I read halfway into Part II and III I found it dragged a little and the pace just wasn't the same. I found it lost some of the edge it had in the beginning. Now, that's not to say that all of MC's books are great, but this one had the beginning, just not the ending for me. And I've always felt that MC, especially after Jurrasic Park, wrote most of his novels intending them to become movies.

As to the question of why we find pirates fascinating I think it's a mulit-facated answer. Part is because of Disney. The 3 Pirate movies have been absorbed into our popular culture. Captain Jack Sparrow anyone?

Part is because pirates are part of a history that is geographically close to the United States or even part of the US, like Florida. In the travel that I've done to the Caribbean, almost all of the Islands have some sort of history with pirates and most of them capitialise on this history with pirate stores, merchandise, mueseums, pirate cruises, pirate festivals, etc.

And, I think part is because everyone likes to think they have a little pirate in them -- that "take what you want, give nothing back" attitude. Pirates are naughty. You know they are not good people, but sometimes you just want to root for them. Also remember, when it comes to most pirates it's all about what side you were on. One country's pirate is another country's national hero.

Pirates represent adventure, freedom, the high-seas. That sounds like so much fun -- even if the reality of it wasn't.

[PinkBudgie]

I've never seen Oceans 11 but I'm wondering if he wrote this with a movie in mind. Or if he purposely put in every pirate stereotype to sort of be funny about it. :confused3 I'm more than half way through and I'm enjoying it but the characters seem to be a little extreme in their stereotypes.

[hmonkeyruns]

I'm finished the book and unfortunately it never really won me over. It had some exciting scenes, and some characters with potential, but I wasn't impressed by the whole package.

My feeling is that he wrote this as a very rough draft of a book and wrote down any idea that popped into his head just to get it all down on paper. I bet he wrote it as the basis for a screenplay but then abandoned the idea when Pirates of the Carribbean took off and never went back to refine anything that he'd written originally.

The things that bugged me the most (spoliers so I'm going to white print): the kraken attack - seriously, a giant squid reaching through the portholes to attack? Are you kidding me? And the whole "she's a witch, mark my words" followed by the candles and pentagram stuff. Just out of left field and then completely abandoned and never mentioned again. What was the point?

I also wish that MC had taken the time to tell us what was going on back at Port Royal instead of just saying "Oh yeah, while you were gone, there was a giant power shift." A couple of interspersed chapters could have set the scene and maybe built up some tension. Similarly, I would have liked some writing from Sanson's perspective on the Cassandra so we would have been more prepared for the end scenes.

I found the whole thing frustrating because I really wanted to like it and I just couldn't.

[Bornteach]

I agree about the whole witch a kraken thing, that bugged me too and almost rang of sci fi.

I enjoyed the end and the epilogue. I knew that Sanson was going to be the one in the courtroom. I enjoyed hearing how the interaction at the end went down.

I thought the whole thing about Mrs. Hackeltt being "fat with child" only after 6 weeks was a little far fetched.

I would have liked to have heard more about the overthrow of the government. That would have added to the suspense.

This was so far different than what I normally read I enjoyed it but I don't think I would see it as a movie for fear of the gore.

[Applemomma]

I absolutley think MC wrote this with a movie in mind. Some sections, when I reread it , jumped out at me as only being in there for that reason....the scene with Mrs. Hacklett and Hunter for example. And a few others into Parts 3 and 4 which I won't bring up yet but two whole sections made me think "what was the purpose of that!"

It would be interesting to know how much the editor would have struck a red line through if it had been anyone other then MC, especially since this was post death.

However, after saying all that, would I go see the movie if it came out? You betcha!

[CoMickey]

Hi - I finished the book this weekend. I liked it - didn't love it. It was a fast read but some of it was far fetched. White out - I don't want to spoil anything. I wish there would have been more detail on what was going on in Port Royal while Hunter and gang were away and also what was happening on the Cassandrea. I had an idea that Sansone was going to make off with the treasure he had but would have like to have been in his head during that time.

I will be interested to read everyone's reviews as they finsh the book.

[*NikkiBell*]

I got to thinking a lot about something that was nagging me about the book in the back of my mind, and I finally figured out what it was. The predictable movie-like plot devices. Just like someone else mentioned in Ocean's 11, and I mentioned in The Magnificent Seven / Seven Samurai. (And another movie plot device I didn't mention because it happens near the end of the book.)

Not only did I find myself bored by the plot devices, it finally dawned on me that I was bothered with the book because it started to read like a screenplay. I hated that.

I'm not sure I'm following. Could you elaborate on what you mean by movie-like plot devices?

I'm curious to see the movie version once it comes out. I don't get the feeling that this is written like a screenplay, but that could just be me.
I just view it as a normal "boy" adventure story.

It appears that MC is very accurate when depicting life, pirates, weaponry etc. I learned that there were 2 female pirates that were very well known and highly respected during the Golden Age of Piracy. I was surprised but it makes sense if society was so restrictive for females that they would want to be part of a more democratic system. Still. Lazue seems to be an accurate representation....the real life ones were so fierce they were put on the landing team (or whatever it was called) and those pirates were known to be the most fierce and ruthless.

Does anyone else wonder why the pirates/stories about pirates from long ago are so much more fascinating/intriguing but modern day pirates are loathsome and frightening?

While I have heard of female pirates before, what my comment was referring to was this concept of cross-dressing and/or transgenderism. I'm not sure how either were received back then other than what I know of women being oppressed.

I don't find pirates loathsome and frightening either in the books or real world. Perhaps I am just too distanced from the idea that it does not register as something that could really exist. I think Pirates of the Caribbean brought some of the more gruesome side of pirates into my understanding. I'm not finding what is being discussed in Pirate Latitudes too different though. I know others have commented that they are ill from some of the actions or descriptions mentioned, but that hasn't happened to me as of yet.

Can I just say how excited about this book club I am. I've finished the book and really enjoyed it. I would never have read it if it wasn't for this book club. I love the idea of going beyond my usual boundries of book picks.

I can't agree more with you. I never would have picked this book up on my own and feel it is a real benefit of our group here on the DIS. :thumbsup2


As to the question of why we find pirates fascinating I think it's a mulit-facated answer. Part is because of Disney. The 3 Pirate movies have been absorbed into our popular culture. Captain Jack Sparrow anyone?

Part is because pirates are part of a history that is geographically close to the United States or even part of the US, like Florida. In the travel that I've done to the Caribbean, almost all of the Islands have some sort of history with pirates and most of them capitialise on this history with pirate stores, merchandise, mueseums, pirate cruises, pirate festivals, etc.

And, I think part is because everyone likes to think they have a little pirate in them -- that "take what you want, give nothing back" attitude. Pirates are naughty. You know they are not good people, but sometimes you just want to root for them. Also remember, when it comes to most pirates it's all about what side you were on. One country's pirate is another country's national hero.

Pirates represent adventure, freedom, the high-seas. That sounds like so much fun -- even if the reality of it wasn't.

I agree. I think pirates represent a fantasy that some of us crave. It's all abotu the high-seas, adventure, merriment, and treasure. Who wouldn't be intruged by it? pirate:

However, after saying all that, would I go see the movie if it came out? You betcha!

Now that we've been reading and discussing it, I'll definitely be seeing it!

[*NikkiBell*]

Arrgghhhh, mateys!!!! pirate:

I just wanted to post a link here to remind everyone of our reading schedule and how we'll move forward. See Post #126 if you are unsure as to how to participate in our discussion.

UPDATED Reading & Discussion Schedule as of March 10

Part II - March 13
Part III - March 17
Part IV - March 22

Part III is titled "Mantanceros" and features a pretty intense scene involving life or death towards the very beginning. Beginning on page 132, Hunter uses a makeshift sling to climb the very top of a cliff during the storm. "Suddenly, there was a break in the pattern. No more ascent" (133). He then quickly realized that he was about to fall as the "sling rope snapped and came twisting and shaking down on his head and shoulders."

Fortunately for one of our main characters, Hunter was able to manuever his body up the cliff although it was not done with ease:

"His body began to arc back toward the cliff. He braced himself for the impact, and then it came, slamming the breath out of his lungs. He gave an involuntary cry, and hung there, gasping for breath...His mind ceased to function...The world around him became silent, no sound of rain, no scream of wind, nothing at all, not even the grasp of his own breath. The world wasy gray, and he was lost in the grayness" (133-134).

This was a pretty powerful scene, don't you think? Hunter needed to be quick on his feet and figure out a way to scale the cliff or face ultimate peril. How would you react in a situation like this? Would you be able to remain calm as did Hunter? Have you ever faced a life or death situation like this?

[tardis1029]

The book is a good choice, it's a quick read and exciting. I'm new at this commenting part but I am enjoying the book.http://www.wdwinfo.com/images/smilies/pirate.gif PS Hacklett is a twit. - Micki

[BriarRosie]

I'm not sure I'm following. Could you elaborate on what you mean by movie-like plot devices?


I'm talking about the tried and true movie cliché of getting a rag-tag bunch of misfits together, each who has a special skill to bring to the party. Throw in the quirks and nicknames like The Jew or The Moor, and you've got a movie-ready plot device straight from Central Casting.

The other plot device I'll talk about in white out.

I noticed that Hunter systematically created a list of people responsible for his tribunal, and then goes about his revenge, killing them one by one. While "Munich" was actually based on the real tragedy of the Munich Olympics of 1972, those responsible for the terrorist act were hunted one by one. Another example I thought of was Uma Thurman in "Kill Bill". But the Hacklett groin shooting was the "poetic justice" I alluded to in an earlier post. Hunter didn't have to do that one.

I guess I'm more annoyed with the contrived movie plot devices than most of you. :laughing:

[cj9200]

My computer was down last week so I had plenty of free time and blew through the book. Thought it was OK in what I term fluff reading. Somewhat predictable and nothing really stood out as “that was really an interesting (and plausible) twist.” I won’t say that it was a paint by numbers book but I agree with others that it seemed more like a movie treatment than a novel. Enjoyable, yes. Memorable, no.

[PinkBudgie]

I'm almost at the end of the book. I think at this point I'd give it a 3 out 5. That is what I give to movies that ok. Not horrible but not extra special either. It kept me interested. Comments on part VI in white:

I was surprised about what had been happening while they were gone. That got interesting for me. I knew that guy was up to no good. On the one hand, by not telling us what was happening there made it a surprise to us as it was to the "pirates" when they returned. On other hand, a little look here and there would have been interesting. I'm not through yet, but it seems to be wrapping up rather easily.

[Applemomma]

This was a pretty powerful scene, don't you think? Hunter needed to be quick on his feet and figure out a way to scale the cliff or face ultimate peril. How would you react in a situation like this? Would you be able to remain calm as did Hunter? Have you ever faced a life or death situation like this?

Thankfully I've never had to face a life and death situation (unless i've blocked it from memory!) but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have reacted like Hunter. I'd have been more like Lazue..."MOTHER OF GOD! MOTHER OF GOD! MOTHER OF GOD!"

I really like the way MC wrote this scene though....I could really picture the whole scene and feel the adreniline.

[*NikkiBell*]

Hahaha. I agree! I so would have been screaming "OH MY GOD!" at the top of my lungs in a situation like that!!!!

[lttlmc3]

Hahaha. I agree! I so would have been screaming "OH MY GOD!" at the top of my lungs in a situation like that!!!!

I probably would have thrown up and cried.

[Hankshouse]

I heard "Cliff Climbing" will be the next adventure ride at WDW!;) Having never read Crichton before, I was speaking to a friend of mine who is an avid reader and has read several of his books and she says this style of "all plot and action, no character development" is definitely his "thing". I also disagree that he wrote this with a movie in mind. I believe it's the other way around. His style of writing lends itself to being recreated on the big screen. And look at how successful it's been!

I know that I for one would never have made it to the top of the cliff. Considering that I was the kid in gym class who could never climb more than a quarter inch up the rope, I'm pretty sure I'd be a goner. Thankfully, I have never had a life or death situation that required rope climbing skills. Or otherwise :)

I've read people mentioning that this is not normally a book they'd read themselves. Well, that's the beauty of book clubs! Just wait a year from now when we look back and see all the books we've read. It's fantastic!!

[wildfan1473]

This was a pretty powerful scene, don't you think? Hunter needed to be quick on his feet and figure out a way to scale the cliff or face ultimate peril. How would you react in a situation like this? Would you be able to remain calm as did Hunter? Have you ever faced a life or death situation like this?

I'd never been in a life or death situation (unless you count snowmobiling on a frozen lake stiff with fear that you're going to hit open water with 30 pounds of gear on), but I'd like to think I'd have some wits about me to keep going and do what needs to be done and survive.

Unfortunately, with the way I panic about the simplest things...I'd be dead in a heartbeat. :rolleyes1

Finished the book the other night. (I got a notice from the library that since it was an inter-library loan, it was only available for 2 weeks, and I couldn't renew it. I really do not like our small town library :sad2: ) I liked it, I would have eventually read it as it was on my list. It wasn't a can't-put-down book, but it was entertaining. Most of it was predictable, although I must say, I love the poetic justice at the end!

[*NikkiBell*]

I heard "Cliff Climbing" will be the next adventure ride at WDW!;) Having never read Crichton before, I was speaking to a friend of mine who is an avid reader and has read several of his books and she says this style of "all plot and action, no character development" is definitely his "thing". I also disagree that he wrote this with a movie in mind. I believe it's the other way around. His style of writing lends itself to being recreated on the big screen. And look at how successful it's been!

I know that I for one would never have made it to the top of the cliff. Considering that I was the kid in gym class who could never climb more than a quarter inch up the rope, I'm pretty sure I'd be a goner. Thankfully, I have never had a life or death situation that required rope climbing skills. Or otherwise :)

I've read people mentioning that this is not normally a book they'd read themselves. Well, that's the beauty of book clubs! Just wait a year from now when we look back and see all the books we've read. It's fantastic!!

I was also this kid in P.E. class! That's a great connection you have made to the book.

Thanks for being so positive about the group. I'm loving it as well! :thumbsup2

[*NikkiBell*]

Hi All,

Please feel free to begin discussing Part III here. It focuses on the crew's arrival in Mantanceros. What are your thoughts? Did you find anything particularly problematic or relieving in this section?

[A.Mickey]

SPOILER for end of Part II

I just started reading Part III today! I am totally loving this book so far! It is not something I would have ever picked up for myself at the library. I am really enjoying reading all the posts and learning about the times back then.

I love how descriptive the book is, it plays or reads just like a movie.

I can't believe they escaped Cazella's ship! :scared1:
That was impressive...there seemed to be quite a few soldiers on the ship! Weren't 20 just suppose to look over them?

I can't wait to see what happens on Mantanceros!!

And I really hope we keep doing these book clubs for a long time to come!!

[esddk]

I am enjoying this book but do agree that it seems written with a movie in mind.

One thing bothered me in the climb of the cliff and I apologize if it was covered earlier. I read quite a few posts and didn't see it. How did the Moor get his rope to the top of the cliff so he could climb up first? It did say he climbed a rope and it seems like a long way to throw a grappling hook.

Thanks for the interesting discussion points. I definitely would have been screaming in Hunter's place and don't think I would have survived without a miracle.

[*NikkiBell*]

I agree with you about that, Susan. I don't understand how that entire rope climbing situation began. I felt it was a bit off in the description of it. I have this image in my head of a huge cliff and the author even describes it as this incredibly dangerous point on the island. If that's so, how did the hook get thrown up there with such ease? Anyone else have ideas about this?

[PinkBudgie]

Funny, I never thought of it until everyone pointed it out. :confused3

[*NikkiBell*]

Hi All!

Have you had enough Mantaceros? Are you finished "monkeying" around at Monkey Bay? Things have been relatively quiet here over the past 2-3 days so I just wanted to get a progress update. Is everyone ready to move on to Part v and VI? If not, I'll wait a bit to post the next deadlines. Otherwise, I'll post them here tomorrow. Please check in and let me know where you are in the book for those of you who are still reading. I know a bunch finished it already, but also recognize that many are sticking with the schedule.

[*NikkiBell*]

SPOILER for end of Part II

I just started reading Part III today! I am totally loving this book so far! It is not something I would have ever picked up for myself at the library. I am really enjoying reading all the posts and learning about the times back then.

I love how descriptive the book is, it plays or reads just like a movie.

I can't believe they escaped Cazella's ship! :scared1:
That was impressive...there seemed to be quite a few soldiers on the ship! Weren't 20 just suppose to look over them?

I can't wait to see what happens on Mantanceros!!

And I really hope we keep doing these book clubs for a long time to come!!

I was shocked at the amount of soldiers on the ship, too! The happenings on Mantanceros ran a bit slow for me, but picked up during the end. I hated the scene with the snake and Lazue. I'm very sensitive to animal cruelty and the image of the little chick being tied up for bait just made me ill. I noticed that the author never revealed what happened to the chick either. I'm assuming it was okay, but am not so sure.

[mainegal]

I was shocked at the amount of soldiers on the ship, too! The happenings on Mantanceros ran a bit slow for me, but picked up during the end. I hated the scene with the snake and Lazue. I'm very sensitive to animal cruelty and the image of the little chick being tied up for bait just made me ill. I noticed that the author never revealed what happened to the chick either. I'm assuming it was okay, but am not so sure.

I have a idea the chick did not make it. If the snake didn't get it, then probably one of the guys twirled it by the rope. Sorry. The way that book is, I can't see it any other way.

[*NikkiBell*]

I was starting to feel that way, too. I was thinking it got killed in the pandemonium when the snake was shot. :(

[mainegal]

I have finished listening to the book.
I also read most of the book.

I needed to know the difference between pirate and privateer.
Googled and found in Wikipedia


A privateer was a private person or private warship authorized by a country's government by letters of marque to attack foreign shipping. Privateers were only entitled by their state to attack and rob enemy vessels during wartime. Privateers were part of naval warfare of some nations from the 16th to the 19th century. It has been argued that privateering was a less destructive and wasteful form of warfare, because the goal was to capture ships rather than to sink them.

for more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer

This helped me better understand the context of what was going on.

It really bothered me how little value a human life had. A man (well, usually a man) goes out to sea and in a flash of a knife doesn't get to go home. I kept thinking those men had mothers and wives and children at home who would never know what happened to their man. Of course, that was not an important aspect of the story! Just my personal concern, same as Nikki's concern about the animals.

I liked how the epilogue explained what happened to people.

[Merry Mousketeer]

Hi All!

Have you had enough Mantaceros? Are you finished "monkeying" around at Monkey Bay? Things have been relatively quiet here over the past 2-3 days so I just wanted to get a progress update. Is everyone ready to move on to Part v and VI? If not, I'll wait a bit to post the next deadlines. Otherwise, I'll post them here tomorrow. Please check in and let me know where you are in the book for those of you who are still reading. I know a bunch finished it already, but also recognize that many are sticking with the schedule.

I am ready to move to the next section when everyone else is. I finished the book a couple of nights ago.

[PinkBudgie]

I finished too but can't remember what happened in which part, so I'm not commenting on anything until someone else does so I don't accidentally give something away.

About the chicken- I was feeling rather "ooohhh" :sad2: too but then thought better to loose a chick than a human life. And how lucky she was that they found one.

[Applemomma]

I'm really lookng forward to open discussion on the last part of the book....this is the part I think I'll have the most to say about! That and I can't remember which part was where so I won't have to worry about spoilers anymore :)

[Bornteach]

I agree! I am looking forward to just talking about the entire thing as well!

[hmonkeyruns]

This may be a little premature, but can we kick off a discussion either here, or in the main book club thread, about the next book we'll read as a group?

I think if we choose a book this week for April, it might give people a bit of a headstart to get a copy before it's time to start reading so we can all be more on the same page.

I think this has gone pretty well but there was a delay in the beginning getting the book since some people could jump in right away by Kindle and others had to wait for the library and stuff like that.

Just a thought.

[Tink rules]

I got the book from the library!!! :thumbsup2

Time to start reading... good time anyway...it's cold and yucky here...

[sc9500]

As I move towards the end of this book Im leaning towards likening this adventure more to "The Odyssey or the Illiad" than to "Oceans 11"

[esddk]

Ready to move ahead, I should finish it by tomorrow night.

Thanks for the responses about the rope on the cliff. I am glad that I wasn't the only one and that I didn't miss something obvious. (It's happened many times before.)

[A.Mickey]

I am still half way through part III, but I have to return it to the library by Saturday. It is a new book, so only got to check it out for 2 weeks. I will have it completed by Saturday! :thumbsup2

[*NikkiBell*]

This may be a little premature, but can we kick off a discussion either here, or in the main book club thread, about the next book we'll read as a group?

I think if we choose a book this week for April, it might give people a bit of a headstart to get a copy before it's time to start reading so we can all be more on the same page.

I think this has gone pretty well but there was a delay in the beginning getting the book since some people could jump in right away by Kindle and others had to wait for the library and stuff like that.

Just a thought.

I'm currently exploring ideas for the next round. If you have a suggestion, feel free to PM me. I will be asking for feedback on the first round soon.

I will set our last deadlines tomorrow. We all need to remember that everyone reads at different paces and there are some who don't have the luxury of time to read as often as some of us do. Those who listen to the book will also finish much faster.

In the meantime, I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on "Mantaceros" and "Monkey Bay." :)

[tanyabanana]

Checking in..I am almost done with the book. It has been a hard one for me to get into. It has picked up a bit for me towards the end. I am enjoying Anne and Lazue characters and agree with others who said they are interested in learning more about them. I also liked the grenade building explanation for some reason :confused3

I have never read a Crichton book before and even though is one has been slow going I am going to try another one of his books soon, maybe Jurassic Park.

I find everyone elses responses to this book interesting and look forward to finishing the book!

[tammyroo]

I learned something else at the Real Pirates exhibit that made me understand why men, and some women, would choose the violent lifestyle of a pirate. Evidently, the Navy was very hierarchical--meaning only the officers ever really gained anything and had any kind of comfort on board. The lower ranks made very little, if anything, in wages, which I found surprising. Sometimes, men and boys were "pressed" into service. So, basically they were slave labor.
Whereas, for pirates it really was a type of democracy (everything divided up equally) and could be much more lucrative in terms of making a living. Pirate captains weren't really any higher up than anyone else on board. He basically was the strategist for battle but otherwise had no special privileges. He didn't even have rights to the captain's cabin if someone wanted it.
So, pirating made much better since in terms of earning a living. I was a bit more sympathetic to their plight once I realized the Navy was pretty abusive at that time. Still, its all pretty ruthless.

The towns in the book that welcome the pirates also make sense given that the pirates had a lot of money to throw around and keep the businesses and town afloat. I wouldn't want to live in such a place but it certainly makes sense if people are trying to survive. Sounds a bit like the Wild West....lawlessness, people turning a blind eye, etc

[*NikkiBell*]

Hi All!

Here's the updated reading schedule for the rest of the novel. Please feel free to discuss anything from Parts I through IV at this time. I already posted a few thoughts above. Feel free to comment or bring up something else that intrigued you. For example, did you find a specific character different in Part IV than towards the beginning of the text? Did you find yourself identifying more with someone? Was there a specific scene that you wanted more information on?


UPDATED Reading & Discussion Schedule as of March 23

Part II - March 13
Part III - March 17
Part IV - March 22
Part V - March 28
Part VI - March 31

[*NikkiBell*]

I needed to know the difference between pirate and privateer...It really bothered me how little value a human life had. A man (well, usually a man) goes out to sea and in a flash of a knife doesn't get to go home. I kept thinking those men had mothers and wives and children at home who would never know what happened to their man. Of course, that was not an important aspect of the story! Just my personal concern, same as Nikki's concern about the animals.

Thanks for posting information about privateering, Lyn. I was thinking about how different they were too while reading last night. The concept of valuing human life is definitely not something that really presented itself here in the text. I think it was probably honorable for men to go out to sea, and people realized that they may never return.

About the chicken- I was feeling rather "ooohhh" :sad2: too but then thought better to loose a chick than a human life. And how lucky she was that they found one.

I'm not sure if I agree here. This relates to the common debate about medical testing done on animals (or that with products like shampoos, soaps, etc.). I personally feel that the animal's life is just as important as the human's. I cringed when the chick was being used as bate and thought that they could have found other means to get the snake out of Lazue's pants.

However, I do also realize that this cruel act was presented in order to show, once again, the personalities of the pirates and how gruesome and careless they can be. Without scenes like this, we'd have a very skewed perception of them.

I have never read a Crichton book before and even though is one has been slow going I am going to try another one of his books soon, maybe Jurassic Park.

I was thinking about reading JP as well. I have never read anything by Crichton, but am enjoying Pirate Latitudes.

I learned something else at the Real Pirates exhibit that made me understand why men, and some women, would choose the violent lifestyle of a pirate. Evidently, the Navy was very hierarchical--meaning only the officers ever really gained anything and had any kind of comfort on board. The lower ranks made very little, if anything, in wages, which I found surprising. Sometimes, men and boys were "pressed" into service. So, basically they were slave labor.
Whereas, for pirates it really was a type of democracy (everything divided up equally) and could be much more lucrative in terms of making a living. Pirate captains weren't really any higher up than anyone else on board. He basically was the strategist for battle but otherwise had no special privileges. He didn't even have rights to the captain's cabin if someone wanted it.
So, pirating made much better since in terms of earning a living. I was a bit more sympathetic to their plight once I realized the Navy was pretty abusive at that time. Still, its all pretty ruthless.

The towns in the book that welcome the pirates also make sense given that the pirates had a lot of money to throw around and keep the businesses and town afloat. I wouldn't want to live in such a place but it certainly makes sense if people are trying to survive. Sounds a bit like the Wild West....lawlessness, people turning a blind eye, etc

Very interesting stuff. That must have been neat to see this exhibit while reading the novel. I'm glad you had a chance to do both! :thumbsup2

[esddk]

I learned something else at the Real Pirates exhibit that made me understand why men, and some women, would choose the violent lifestyle of a pirate. Evidently, the Navy was very hierarchical--meaning only the officers ever really gained anything and had any kind of comfort on board. The lower ranks made very little, if anything, in wages, which I found surprising. Sometimes, men and boys were "pressed" into service. So, basically they were slave labor.
Whereas, for pirates it really was a type of democracy (everything divided up equally) and could be much more lucrative in terms of making a living. Pirate captains weren't really any higher up than anyone else on board. He basically was the strategist for battle but otherwise had no special privileges. He didn't even have rights to the captain's cabin if someone wanted it.
So, pirating made much better since in terms of earning a living. I was a bit more sympathetic to their plight once I realized the Navy was pretty abusive at that time. Still, its all pretty ruthless.

The towns in the book that welcome the pirates also make sense given that the pirates had a lot of money to throw around and keep the businesses and town afloat. I wouldn't want to live in such a place but it certainly makes sense if people are trying to survive. Sounds a bit like the Wild West....lawlessness, people turning a blind eye, etc

This is really interesting information and certainly does explain why pirating would be a popular lifestyle choice. Also, better to be Lazue than a woman with no say in her life choices.

[mainegal]

Was there a specific scene that you wanted more information on?


We got introductory background on the sailor / privateers.

I would have liked to known more about Anne Sharpe. She was young in years and new to Port Royale, but certainly knew how to manipulate and gain her way in the world.

[DisneySunflower]

I finished the book today and I enjoyed reading it! I can not wait for our next book. I have enjoyed reading the comments applicable to each section. My 2 cents: I loved Hunter and Lazue, I hated Hacklett and I want to visit the Caribbean even more now. Overall, I give this book a :thumbsup2.

Happy Reading!

[PinkBudgie]

I finished the book today and I enjoyed reading it! I can not wait for our next book. I have enjoyed reading the comments applicable to each section. My 2 cents: I loved Hunter and Lazue, I hated Hacklett and I want to visit the Caribbean even more now. Overall, I give this book a :thumbsup2.

Happy Reading!


I hated him too, which is why I liked him! :rotfl: I wish we could have seen more him.

[sc9500]

Finished the book last night -- again Im struck by the story echoing a journey like "the odyssey". Overall would give it a 3 out 5 .. certainly not Crichton's best, and I still have my doubts he is the sole author.
Spoiler - I thought that he would leave it open to a sequel, the hero finding adventure thru the Caribbean seeking the rest of the treasure. Hunter's death was antclimatic.

[PinkBudgie]

Reply to the spoiler: I have to say that I do like when a book or movie tells you what happened to everyone involved because I don't like it just ending. But I was disappointed too in how he ended.

[Applemomma]

Parts of the last two sections of the book had me pulling my hair out so I'm going to be really interested to hear everyone's comments when we all finish. The epilogue actually had me running for the computer though...some of it sounded so plausible.

[*NikkiBell*]

Hi All,

I'm sorry for being scare the past few days, but am having some personal/family problems right now. Keep the discussion going about your thoughts on the book. Feel free to include your ideas on the ending as well just use the spoiler tag so people are aware in case they are still reading.

[wishspirit]

I just wanted to pop in and apologise!

I really wanted to take part in this book, I even got it out of the library, but with all the Uni work on at the moment, and the 8000 word original research monstrosity at my door, I just don't have the time!

Do we have a set book for the next one so I can get an early start?

[*NikkiBell*]

Hi Kate - No need to apologize! I'm asking anyone who has suggestions for the next round's book to PM me. Once we finish this one, we're going to discuss the options for the next book and go from there. :)

[crazy4stitch]

I often wonder when I read books from those time periods, were people really that careless about human life or if that is just the author taking liberty to tell a story. Life was so short then, it would seem like that should make life even more valued.

[mainegal]

I often wonder when I read books from those time periods, were people really that careless about human life or if that is just the author taking liberty to tell a story. Life was so short then, it would seem like that should make life even more valued.

Oh, I love your comment!

I don't think the author was making up about how people valued life. I have already stated how comfortable I was reading the book.

Some thoughts...

Maybe, just perhaps, because life could be so short, people took greater risks?

Women had many children with the knowledge that some would not survive through childhood. Do you think, maybe, some women didn't get very attatched to children knowing that they could be snatched by disease. Could this lead to latter disregard of human life?

Just wondering, I really don't know.

[*NikkiBell*]

I often wonder when I read books from those time periods, were people really that careless about human life or if that is just the author taking liberty to tell a story. Life was so short then, it would seem like that should make life even more valued.

I have found myself wondering this time and time again during our reading of this book. It seems as if human life (and animal, for that matter) is so devalued. Part of me wonders if it is just the author heightening the intensity of the pirate way of life or if it is truthful.

You made a great point at the end of your comment here. Because medicine and technology was so archaic back then, one would think that people would have placed even more value on it. That is certainly not the case from what we have seen in the novel. I wonder why that is so?

[*NikkiBell*]

Arrrrrrrrrr, mateys!! pirate:

Although we are still discussing Pirate Latitudes, I'm beginning to make plans for our second book choice. Please take a minute to fill out the survey below. If you have any questions, let me know!

Thanks!

Nikki

http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/WEB22AF6Z83MRT

[Hankshouse]

I've just finished and without releasing any "spoilers", I'll try to answer Nikkibell's conversation starters. First though, I said it before...I enjoyed the read - and this really isn't something I would have typically picked up. I did find the story ran a bit long in some parts and thin in others. Some of the battle scenes lost me a bit, yet I found I really would have loved more info on who Hunter was and how he got to his place in that world. I was also intrigued by Ann Sharpe and feel like a Part II all about her post Port Royal life would make an excellent novel on its own. Horror and gore, was never my fave, though I can see how it helped to keep the pirate mood throughout the story. So, I'd say overall - this hits me like a pretty good "beach" book and for that I give it a:thumbsup2

[katscradle]

Can you please give as much notice as possible on the next book that is chosen, so I can participate. :)

[*NikkiBell*]

I'll do the best I can. Just keep checking here for more info. :)

[hmonkeyruns]

RE: Value of life human / animal


My take on the behavior is not so much that life was devalued but that death was just more real to these people. Most of us are lucky enough to live well into adulthood before we face death for the first time. In many ways it's just an abstract concept to us, not something that we have to deal with or accept even though we know that it exists. I think the remote nature of it lends drama to the way we all deal with death. It's so shocking when it actually happens that we're traumatized by it. In the era of the pirates death happened all the time, to people of all ages, so it was simply part of their everyday reality. It didn't necessarily mean less to them, it was just easier to for them to accept.

As for the animals, I think the pirates are more like people who grow up on farms. People who raise animals for food understand the system. Animals may be cute and cuddly and deserve good treatment while they are alive but they are also needed for food. It's just a fact of life for a lot of people.

In the modern era where we have such wide availability of food, it's easier to have more sympathy for animals. To think of them as living beings with rights rather than food sources.

All that said, pirates, like criminals of any era (mobsters, drug dealers, bank robbers, etc) are probably more violent than the average person. Killing people is just part of how they do business. I don't think anything has changed over the years for the people who choose to make their living on the fringe of society.

[*NikkiBell*]

Finito!

Congratulations! We've hit the end of Pirate Latitudes!!! For all of you out there who have been hesitant to discuss the end of the novel, feel free to go full steam ahead. I'll post a few discussion starters here and there to keep the conversation going.

One of the things that I wanted to bring up was the recurring theme of superstition throughout the text. Most recently, there's a scene in Part IV where several members of Hunter's crew perform rituals out of fear due to the pending hurricane.

"Belowdecks, the Moor took his dagger and cut his own finger, then drew a triangle on the desk with his blood...Lazue threw a casket of salt pork over the side, and held three fingers in the air..." (236).

While this was taking place, Hunter employed more traditional methods of conjuring up good luck.

"Hunter himself professed to despise such superstition, yet he went to his cabin, locked the door, got down on his knees, and prayed." (236)

This showed a strong contrast between the two spiritual worlds --- one traditional, one not. I don't find it surprising that Hunter, the all-spirited captain, was selected to use prayer while his crew instead used more pagan methods. I think the author was trying to comment on their roles in the novel in this way.

What are your thoughts on rituals and superstitions? Do you believe that it is possible to change the future through the invocation of positive energy, spirit, prayer, etc?

One thing that I found particularly surprising near this scene was Lady Sarah's magic practice. I don't recall a scene earlier in the text where we received true confirmation of her knowing magic, regardless of how often she uses it, until then (238). Was this done on purpose to add extra shock value to the end of the novel?

[Applemomma]

I think we still use a lot of "superstition" in our lives in present day as a way of trying to control what we have no control over....knock wood, salt over the shoulder,etc. I don't think we can so much change the future so much as change our outlook on it. For example, prayer might not change what happens but you can find a certain peace with what does happen.

I'm so glad that we've reached the end only because now I can say what drove me nuts and not have to worry about spoilers (I'd be the one to forget to put it in white :) )

Starting from about the hurricane scene things started to unravel for me only because there seemed to be storylines that were started and not finished, or seemed to have no place there. Lady Sarah's black magic is one of them!

Another was the Kraken .... I could buy a creature trying to pull the ship over but busting through windows and grabbling at legs? And the whole scene on the island with the cannibals struck me as so out of place that I'm surprised the editor left it in. Apart from a little trauma for Lady Sarah, which didn't really follow through very well, it was pointless....in fact when I got to that point I actually said out loud "what was the point in THAT!" causing me to have to explain to others that I was reading and not seeing things. :lmao:

I did love the ending though! The govenor and the Hacklett's storylines were some of my favorites and the epilogue sent me running for the computer looking stuff up.

[PinkBudgie]

That black magic thing struck me as odd too. Sort of out of the blue. The kracken scene was very descriptive but reminded me of the POTC. Like every myth and stereotype about pirates was here. The best part was finding out what Hacklett was u[ to while we were gone. I liked the "trial" and finding out who suddenly turned on him and what he did about.

[mainegal]

If I remember correctly - Hunter was from the colonies. Educated, Harvard? He would be more likely to have a strong religious background.

Seafaring folk were very superstitious.

I didn't think that Lady Sarah really knew magic. I think she saw women do it and maybe she saw it as a parlor game.

[dreamlinda]

Hello Book Group - I confess, I was not reading along with the group, but happened to be reading this book over the last week. I found it just "ok". It seemed to me to be a young adult novel in the sense that topics came and went in a few pages without sustaining danger or tension.

I have no idea what the author's writing style may have been, but this seemed like an outline that was gaining depth layer by layer, and ultimitely was unfinished. Like many of you, I would have enjoyed more depth to some of the characters and find myself wanting to know more.

Looking forward to the next selection!

[*NikkiBell*]

Linda, no need to apologize! I'm glad you were able to share your thoughts on the book. Are you going to join us for the next round?

Reminder to All: Please fill out the survey in Post 211 regarding Round 2!

[dreamlinda]

Linda, no need to apologize! I'm glad you were able to share your thoughts on the book. Are you going to join us for the next round?

Thanks NikkiBell, I do plan on participating depending on the selection. I did complete the survey and listed some recommendations, but in general I read all areas of fiction (including mysteries which were not listed). Thanks!

[Applemomma]

Seafaring folk were very superstitious.

I didn't think that Lady Sarah really knew magic. I think she saw women do it and maybe she saw it as a parlor game.

I think you're right about that. And isn't it amazing that what women thought of as parlour tricks men think is a threat and are more then willing to throw you overboard for!;)

[*NikkiBell*]

One of the things that struck me as surprising (not sure why though lol) was how Hunter went about killing so many people during the very end of the novel. It was surprising to me, but I'm not sure why. I guess the author put that sequence in to further prove the point that pirates were dangerous, cruel, and barbaric.

I was disappointed that we heard so little of Anne Sharpe and Lady Sarah. I really expected some big twist at the end where they revealed surprising information about the girls. That was a big let down for me. Anyone else?

[DisneyKevin]

Hi folks....

Let me know when this thread is reaching it's end and I will begin a new discussion thread for whatever book is chosen as our nexy book club selection.

I will leave this thread open for further discussion ...well at least until I see it has become far less active.

Once the ABD trip is complete, I hope to be far more active with the discussion.

By the way...I think Nikki is doing an AWESOME job with this and would like to publicly say THANK YOU!!!!!

[PinkBudgie]

Yes, there were several people who could have been interesting, but we just didn't get to them much. I bet this makes a better movie than book.

[*NikkiBell*]

I can see it as a movie, but it'd be so much of a POTC rip-off. That'd turn me off a bit.

[lttlmc3]

I can see it as a movie, but it'd be so much of a POTC rip-off. That'd turn me off a bit.

I agree. Everyone would be waiting for Jack!

[DisneyKevin]

Okay folks....it seems that the time has come to pick a new book club selection.

I will leave this thread open as long as it remains active.

Once the conversation slows, I'll close it.

Look for the 2nd Book Club thread at the top of the Dis Unplugged Board.

Nikki is announcing the new selection very soon!

[*NikkiBell*]

The announcement has been made! Boy, I feel like I'm at the Oscars or something! ;)