Breaking News: Shamu Kills Trainer at Sea World

[DisneyKevin]

Dont have all the details yet.... but, according to the local news,apparently one of the 10 Shamu's at Sea World grabbed on of the trainers pulling her underwater and kept her there.

This is tragic news.

Our thoughts and prayers go out to this person's friends and family.

[PeterPan09]

OMG....that is terrible. :sad1:

We're so used to these animals performing that we forget that they are wild, and that the trainers really are risking their lives getting that close to them.

[corky441]

Oh my - how tragic :sad1:

Thoughts & prayers to the trainer's friends & family :grouphug:

[mikelan6]

Wow Kevin ... you're better than CNN!

[luke]

How terrible, thoughts are with her family

:goodvibes

[Justin Jett]

http://www.wqad.com/news/nationworld/os-seaworld-orlando-shamu-injury-20100224,0,7095229.story

[farmergirl]

So sad. Thoughts and Prayers to the trainer's family and friends. :sad1:

[SoScary'09]

Thanks Justin for posting the article. Apparently this happened at the start of a show too o_0; I can't even imagine being there and watching it happen, and I'm an adult.

Perhaps we should consider stopping to try to train wild animals for show? (even though that'll never happen) Yet so many bad things have been happening over the years....Tigers going crazy, monkeys going crazy, now whales...

[KristyBDJ]

OMG! That's terrible. I too can't imagine seeing that happen. I'm re-thinking taking my kids to Sea World in May. I understand they are wild animals and that those trainers take a risk every time they get in the water...and I'm sure they accept that as well. I just can't imagine having my kids see that! My thoughts are with her loved ones and all those who witnessed such a sad event unfold.

[Cyrano]

Very sad for the trainer's family and all who witnessed this incident :sad1:

[LMO429]

how terrible. my prayers to the family

[jessrose18]

This is awful. Just saw this show in September and was amazed by the relationship between the animals and trainers.

[maiziezoe]

That is just awful. :(

[Renysmom]

OMG... My heart goes out to the trainer's family, friends and the Sea World community..

[DAZY3BYZ]

Wow! How unbelievably tragic! :sad1: We really do lose sight of just how much of a risk these trainers take each and every day. After all, these are still wild animals always. Our thoughts and prayers to all affected by this tragedy. :grouphug:

[timandlesley]

Thanks for sharing this with us Kevin, how tragic, our thoughts and prayers are with this family, how awful!
Lesley

[DSNY4ever]

Very sad. Yes, when animals remind us they are wild it always bring ups that touchy subject of should they "perform."

I just googled this incident and saw some crazy unrelated stories and you tube videos. The poor pelican video was interesting... real life national geographic taking place during the show :eek:.

[kaligal]

I saw it on the news. They said he shook her, but didn't say if he ate her after killing her. I hope not.

It is very sad.

I imagine they'll kill the whale now. I hope they don't get rid of the Shamu show. I have loved him my entire life.

[DSNY4ever]

God, I hope they don't kill it. It is a killer whale, it doesn't know the rules.

[honeydiane1953]

Dont have all the details yet.... but, according to the local news,apparently one of the 10 Shamu's at Sea World grabbed on of the trainers pulling her underwater and kept her there.

This is tragic news.

Our thoughts and prayers go out to this person's friends and family.

WHEN will people learn Animals, yes Shamu is a mammel are A N I M A L S. They are doing what they do. Case in point the ape who ate the face off that lady. Seifreid and Roy. LAWD

[FireDancer]

God, I hope they don't kill it. It is a killer whale, it doesn't know the rules.

I feel sorry for the trainer.

I have never understood why wild animals, even well trained wild animals, are killed for doing what they do.

[livndisney]

It didn't happen during a show.
He shook her, he did not eat her.

I do hope everyone remembers to be respectful of the family when posting.

[DSNY4ever]

I feel sorry for the trainer.

I have never understood why wild animals, even well trained wild animals, are killed for doing what they do.

Exactly, and I doubt the trainer would want it killed- I am sure he/she loved the whales or they probably wouldn't have been a trainer.

[3DisneyKids]

From the Washington Post:

ORLANDO, Fla. -- An employee at SeaWorld Orlando has died after being attacked by a killer whale.

Orange County Fire Rescue spokesman John Mulhall says paramedics were called Wednesday afternoon to the Shamu Stadium at the theme park where they found a worker who could not be revived.

Park guest Victoria Biniak told WKMG-TV that the trainer had just finished explaining to the audience the show they were about to see.

Biniak told the station the whale suddenly came up from the water, grabbed the trainer around the waist and "thrashed her all around" to the point the trainer's shoe fell off.

The guests were evacuated and the park was closed.

[IWISHFORDISNEY]

news conference at 4:15 how tragic

[PeterPan09]

I feel sorry for the trainer.

I have never understood why wild animals, even well trained wild animals, are killed for doing what they do.

I agree-I don't think they should kill it. The whale doesn't know that he did something wrong. He did what his instincts told him to do. The sad thing is, this is a captive animal, it's not like they can release him into the wild.

I feel terrible for the trainer and her loved ones...but I don't place criminal type intent on a wild animal.

[DWGal210]

:hug: My thoughts and prayers are with the family and the guests that witnessed a terrible tragedy. :hug:

[sunshine girl]

This is horrible. My heart goes out to the trainer's family and friends.

I hope they don't kill the whale. I mean, it's a killer whale! A wild animal. It is absolutely tragic, but I personally don't think killing this whale is the right response.

(To be clear, I haven't heard any indication that they are even considering killing the whale, but someone brought it up in this thread and hence my comment.)

[Cherinva]

How sad. My thoughts and prayers for her family.

[Cat0727]

How awful.

I hope this makes theme parks & other businesses think twice now of taking wild animals into captivity, you can never make them fully domesticated :sad2:

[michelleiada]

OMG...that is terribly and tragic! My thoughts and prayers are with the family of the trainor.:sad2:

[dalt01]

it seems there is a lot of stupidity involved...."IF" the blurbs are correct, this animal has been linked to two other deaths, one in 91 and another in 99

[Golf4food]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100224/ap_on_re_us/us_seaworld_death

ORLANDO, Fla. – A trainer at SeaWorld Orlando died Wednesday after a killer whale attacked her in front of a horrified audience.

Orange County Fire Rescue spokesman John Mulhall said paramedics were called to the Shamu Stadium at the theme park resort where they found a worker who could not be revived.

Park guest Victoria Biniak told WKMG-TV that the trainer had just finished explaining to the audience the show they were about to see.

The whale "took off really fast in the tank, and then he came back, shot up in the air, grabbed the trainer by the waist and started thrashing around, and one of her shoes flew off," Biniak told the station.

"He was thrashing her around pretty good," she said. "It was violent."

The guests were asked to leave and the park was closed.

There have been several previous attacks on whale trainers at SeaWorld parks.

In Nov. 2006, trainer Kenneth Peters, 39, was bitten and held underwater several times by a 7,000-pound killer whale during a show at SeaWorld's San Diego park. He escaped with a broken foot. The 17-foot-long orca who attacked him was the dominant female of SeaWorld San Diego's seven killer whales. She had attacked Peters two other times, in 1993 and 1999.

In 2004, another whale at the company's San Antonio park tried to hit one of the trainers and attempted to bite him. He also escaped.

In December, a whale drowned a trainer at a Spanish zoo.

At the Orlando SeaWorld, the body of a naked man was found scratched, bruised and draped over a 5-ton orca named Tilikum in July 1999. Daniel Dukes, 27, reportedly made his way past security at SeaWorld, remaining in the park after it had closed. Wearing only his underwear, Dukes either jumped, fell or was pulled into the frigid water of Tilikum's huge tank.

An autopsy ruled that he died of hypothermia in the 50-degree water. But they also said it appeared Tilikum bit the man and tore off his swimming trunks, likely believing he was a toy to play with.

Dukes' parents filed a lawsuit against the park later that year but ended up withdrawing it.

[dalt01]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35566392?GT1=43001

[jen3003]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family of the trainer and to all the employees at Sea World. :hug:

[aurorae]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/24/killer.whale.trainer.death/index.html?hpt=T1

[Disney Khi]

So sad. :grouphug:

[auroralark]

That's so sad. :sad2:

[Eeyores#1Fan]

Sooooooo sorry to hear this sad news. My thoughts and prayers are with the family as well as all those poor guests that witnessed it. :hug:

[wishspirit]

My thoughts go out to her friends, family and co-workers, this must be a terrible time for them.

[momto2inKC]

How tragic...my thoughts and prayers are with her family and all those who witnessed it

[mickeysaver]

My prayers go out to the family of the trainer, her coworkers, her friends, all of the people that were visiting the SeaWorld park today, especially those that witnessed this horrible act, and the marine life that calls SeaWorld home. This is just so sad.

[jharrowell]

Just read about this on the BBC website, so sad. My thoughts go out to the trainer's family & friends.

If the BBC's info is correct, the "official" line is that the trainer slipped and fell. But if that is what Seaworld are saying that sounds like corporate spin...

[Mouse Skywalker]

Such a very sad story. My heart goes out to the families of everyone involved.

[drakethib]

Very Sad indeed.

[Joshua_me]

A heart-breaking story all the way around.

One could argue that animals are not here for our amusement.

[Splat25]

This is very sad for the trainers family and all of central Florida. I used to live there and was always very proud of the Orca whales at Sea World. Our thoughts are with you all.

[nmoore14]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family. This is so sad because children might have seen what happened. Even for adults it must be hard, but for children it can be harder to explain. :sad1:

[StitchesGr8Fan]

I'm really worried about what they are going to do with Tillikum. I might avoid this news story because I will be devistated if they decide to euthanize him.

[SamSam]

My thoughts and prayers go out to all families touched by this tragedy. So very sad.

[disneyholic family]

http://www.wqad.com/news/nationworld/os-seaworld-orlando-shamu-injury-20100224,0,7095229.story

they have a picture of the trainer in better days in this article...
she was 40 years old and had worked with the whales for many years...
i didn't realize there's a Dine with Shamu show - so people saw this happen while eating...

in this article, they say they will not kill the whale for this...
i agree with that decision....
he was just doing what animals do...
he's an animal - it's not his fault we put him into captivity...

but how very very very sad for the trainer and her family...
but i guess it's some consolation to her family that she was doing what she loved...

[Stacy's a freak]

This is very sad for the trainers family and all of central Florida. I used to live there and was always very proud of the Orca whales at Sea World. Our thoughts are with you all.
Thank you so much for calling it an ORCA! I hate the term "killer whale" :( My thoughts and prayers to the family as well :grouphug: It is such an awful thing.

I have to wonder what will happen to the whale. If it is true that it was responsible for other deaths, I would think that something has to be done. And since they can't just release it into the wild after being in captivity ... awful :(

[DSNY4ever]

I have to wonder what will happen to the whale. If it is true that it was responsible for other deaths, I would think that something has to be done. And since they can't just release it into the wild after being in captivity ... awful :(

They could just leave it alone. I mean, not use it for any shows or anything and just let it live in the tank.

[Sorahana]

They could just leave it alone. I mean, not use it for any shows or anything and just let it live in the tank.

I took a picture of this whale swimming around the tank a couple years ago when I went. I recognized him by his fin.

But this is a tragedy and my heart and prayers go out to the trainer's family. I'm wondering what they're going to do to the whale as well, especially since he has a history =/.

[aspen37]

This so sad! :sad1: My thoughts and prayers are with her family, and anyone who saw this.

Here is a link to WESH News from Orlando.

http://www.wesh.com/news/22667184/detail.html

This is from the Today Show and Julie Scardina talks to Matt.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/35579981#35579981

[Stacy's a freak]

They could just leave it alone. I mean, not use it for any shows or anything and just let it live in the tank.

This is probably the best way to go. I would hate for any other trainers to be hurt :(

[DebºoºS]

So very tragic. Just read an article that discusses the business and dangers. I found the last line to be particularly interesting.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/whales/debate/trainers.html

[brooklyn615]

I'm not sure living in the tanks is the best option, especially if he gets seperated from the other orcas. Living in a pool/tank that is so small is part of the problem, as well as being cut off from the other orcas..they live in pods in the wild, and they have mass oceans to live normally. I feel like a rehabilitaion program, or the move to a sactuary might be an option. At least in a sanctuary, he wouldn't be in such a small enclosure.
just my opinion.

[*NikkiBell*]

I have not been following this story that much for a few reasons, but did just hear the coverage on this week's podcast. I am very, very, very relieved that the whale will not be put down. Thanks to the team for sharing this news.

[dalt01]

I'm not sure living in the tanks is the best option, especially if he gets seperated from the other orcas. Living in a pool/tank that is so small is part of the problem, as well as being cut off from the other orcas..they live in pods in the wild, and they have mass oceans to live normally. I feel like a rehabilitaion program, or the move to a sactuary might be an option. At least in a sanctuary, he wouldn't be in such a small enclosure.
just my opinion. it will not be separated from the other Orca's, it is used for breeding and companionship. they are going to keep human interaction to a bare minimum.

[exwdwcm]

it will not be separated from the other Orca's, it is used for breeding and companionship. they are going to keep human interaction to a bare minimum.yep, if for nothing else, they need to keep him for breeding purposes. Killer whales are extremely social animals, so keeping him isolated is not a good idea. I think keeping the interaction minimal is the best solution. Care for him, but don't risk a life given his history.

Very sad all the way around.

[DisneyKevin]

I think the press has given people some false impressions regarding this story.

Please understand that I am not trying to make light of this story or to place blame on the trainer. I just think that the media is making it sound like this whale is some kind of human killing machine.

Tilikum has been involved in two other deaths, but there are extenuating circumstances involved.

I got the quote from this CNN story:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/26/florida.seaworld.death/index.html?hpt=T1

"Tilikum and two other whales were involved in the drowning of a trainer at a Victoria, British Columbia, marine park in 1991. The trainer fell into the whale tank at Sealand of the Pacific and was dragged underwater as park visitors watched.

In 1999, Tilikum was blamed for the death of a 27-year-old man whose body was found floating in a tank at SeaWorld, the apparent victim of a whale's "horseplay," authorities said then.

The Orange County Sheriff's Office said the man apparently hid in the park until after it closed, then climbed into the tank."

While I think this trainer's death is certainly tragic and I feel for her family and friends, humans have to be held accountable for this tragedy.

This whale did not come out of the ocean and grab a human. We have essentially caged a wild animal, rewarded it for doing what we want it to do to entertain us and now, are hurt and surprised when it did something unexpected but still well within in the realm of it's natural behavior.

[WaltD4Me]

I just watched the CEO of Sea World's news conference a little while ago and I have to say, the press really is spinning this story. They kept asking questions referring to the other two deaths and didn't seem to want to hear any clarification or further details regarding them. One reporter actually yelled at the CEO saying he wasn't explaining the rules or procedures in place for the trainers. The CEO tried to explain their SOP in dealing with the whales is extremely extensive, it isn't like the trainers just had a couple rules to go by, but the reporter accused him of refusing to answer.

I think this an awful tragedy and I'm so sad for Dawn the trainer and her family, friends and co-workers, but I also know that Sea World does many, many wonderful things for animals and are not just parading animals out there for the money.

[alebisi]

While I think this trainer's death is certainly tragic and I feel for her family and friends, humans have to be held accountable for this tragedy.

This whale did not come out of the ocean and grab a human. We have essentially caged a wild animal, rewarded it for doing what we want it to do to entertain us and now, are hurt and surprised when it did something unexpected but still well within in the realm of it's natural behavior.

My exact thoughts

[natale1980]

Very sad.

-nat

[Joshua_me]

While I think this trainer's death is certainly tragic and I feel for her family and friends, humans have to be held accountable for this tragedy.

This whale did not come out of the ocean and grab a human. We have essentially caged a wild animal, rewarded it for doing what we want it to do to entertain us and now, are hurt and surprised when it did something unexpected but still well within in the realm of it's natural behavior.
^ I didn't have the nerve to say that here, for fear of being eternally flamed, but I agree with you 100 percent on this...

[PrincessBelle39]

I think the press has given people some false impressions regarding this story.

Please understand that I am not trying to make light of this story or to place blame on the trainer. I just think that the media is making it sound like this whale is some kind of human killing machine.

Tilikum has been involved in two other deaths, but there are extenuating circumstances involved.

I got the quote from this CNN story:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/26/florida.seaworld.death/index.html?hpt=T1

"Tilikum and two other whales were involved in the drowning of a trainer at a Victoria, British Columbia, marine park in 1991. The trainer fell into the whale tank at Sealand of the Pacific and was dragged underwater as park visitors watched.

In 1999, Tilikum was blamed for the death of a 27-year-old man whose body was found floating in a tank at SeaWorld, the apparent victim of a whale's "horseplay," authorities said then.

The Orange County Sheriff's Office said the man apparently hid in the park until after it closed, then climbed into the tank."

While I think this trainer's death is certainly tragic and I feel for her family and friends, humans have to be held accountable for this tragedy.

This whale did not come out of the ocean and grab a human. We have essentially caged a wild animal, rewarded it for doing what we want it to do to entertain us and now, are hurt and surprised when it did something unexpected but still well within in the realm of it's natural behavior.

While I'm desparately sorry for Dawn's family and those in the stadium who saw the tragedy, I'm another that agree's wholeheartedly with Kevin's comments. I have to say my heart went out just as much to Tilly for the situation he was in. We met Tilly at our Dine with Shamu experience and were awestruck by him. While he behaved perfectly as the trainers instructed him, it can't be expected that he is always going to do just what they require. He is a wild animal.

[wishspirit]

While I think this trainer's death is certainly tragic and I feel for her family and friends, humans have to be held accountable for this tragedy.

This whale did not come out of the ocean and grab a human. We have essentially caged a wild animal, rewarded it for doing what we want it to do to entertain us and now, are hurt and surprised when it did something unexpected but still well within in the realm of it's natural behavior.

I completely agree Kevin!

It has also made me think if I really want to visit Seaworld again. Should we be using wild animals for our entertainment?

This has been sparked by my recent visit to Monkey World here in the UK, where all kinds of monkeys (although mainly chimps) are cared for after being taken out of the wild, mistreated or bred in captivity. Although you are able to see the monkeys, and they have some level of human interaction, they are encouraged to go back to instinctive ways of being monkeys and chimps, using toys and treats only to keep them mentally alert using natural behaviours or treat them for medical conditions. Only a few types of monkeys/apes are allowed to breed, and that is because they are endangered in the wild and they are trying to start up breeding programmes. Plus they are not bred for financial gain.

These monkey's have come from terrible environments, but are now given enough space and activities to allow them to behave normally as possible.

Places like SeaWorld aren't like this (although are more so when it comes to manatees). They are breeding and cooping up animals for financial gain, which up 'till now hadn't struck me. Now I am wondering if I should give them my money and allow this practice to continue.

Anyone else feeling torn too?

[DisneyKevin]

I am a fence sitter on this issue.

These animals are also an amazing teaching tool. How many kids are more aware of not throwing trash in the water after seeing Shamu and being exposed to Sea World's environmental programs.

Nature shows are great at exposing kids to this things....but having six tons of whale actually get them wet is something else all together.

Wild animals spend pretty much all of their time trying to meet there own needs.....food and safety. Those needs are met at Sea World...but at a price.

The point I have a really hard time with is when people blame the animal for a catastrophe when a human is hurt interacting with them.

I can certainly see taking out a wolf that's destroying a herd of cattle or a bear that is attacking campers or an aggresive alligator that's grabbing neighborhood pets.

I'm not a vegetarian. I have no problem eating meat. I'd rather the animal was raised humanely (and I'm much more aware of that at this point in my life) but I see this as part of the life cycle. Big animals eat smaller animals. It's part of life.

That being said.....it bothers me when we cage an animal, train it to "entertain" us and then are hurt and angry when the animal acts like an animal.

12,000 pound whales are not house pets and we have to rememeber that

[IWISHFORDISNEY]

I am feeling the same way as Kevin and alot of others. I am seeing the media spin down here and they are not telling people the man who was killed got drunk, stripped and tried to ride the whale after sneaking into the park. That is human stupidity. Not the whales fault. I dont like the fact we are blaming the whale for doing what it instinctively does. Humans shold not have any contact with an animal this big. I like SeaWorld but the animals are held there for profit. If there was not profit there would not be environmental programs that they offer. I think there is a very fine line here. But blaming the whale or calling it a killer is just not right IMO. I do feel bad for the trainer but unfortunately that is a risk she took when she decided to make this her career.

[Julie*]

Such a tragic story for everyone involved.

My co-workers son was there having lunch when it happened and he saw the whole thing. He was in Orlando with family friends who had taken him on vacation with them. He's 13 years old and having pretty bad nightmares right now. Poor kid.

[Justin Jett]

This has been a very hard time for me, as I love SeaWorld and the animals there. My thoughts are with Dawn Brancheau's family, as well as the people at SeaWorld.

I agree that the media has put their own spin on this, as they do with anything.

While I dont feel like I have enough facts to comment on this particular situation. I would like to note the very special relationship that developes between animal and trainer. Kevin is correct in saying that Orcas are not house pets. That said....they do have feelings and emotions. A bond delevopes between the animal and trainer.

Yes, they are trained, not tamed. All the natural instincts are there, but love is a natural instinct too. When the show ends the love and friendship between animal and trainer continues.

There have been a few possible scenerios talked about in the media. I personally believe one over the others....but I do not want to comment on the scenerio until I know more. That is only fair to SeaWorld and Tilikum.

[natale1980]

I was in shock last night when I heard that he was still going to be used in shows in future.

-nat

[challer]

I am torn on the issue as well. I think the exposure of these beautiful creatures to adults and children alike increases awareness of their needs and our responsibility to protect their habitats and species. However, these creatures are not built to live under these conditions, no matter how humane we perceive them to be.

After hearing this story, I couldn't help thinking of the documentary, The Cove, which is nominated for Best Documentary at the Academy Awards. I brought it up on the boards last September, but I assumed not many people saw the film. Here's the (brief) thread.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2273516&highlight=cove

If this killer whale was captured and not born and bread in SW, I become more disappointed.

Now, former Flipper trainer and "The Cove" producer Ric O'Barry, along with Earth Island Institute Executive Director David Phillips, have put out an article calling for a federal investigation into SeaWorld's possible negligence and violations of the Marine Mammal Protection Act. I'm not sure how much I would demand that, but I do feel that episodes like this should give us pause in terms of human's belief that we know what's best for these creatures.

A link to the O'Barry/Phillips statement: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-phillips/seaworlds-actions-represe_b_481067.html?fbwall


If you have not seen this film, I recommend it highly. I believe this film should win the Oscar this year.

My thoughts are with the friends and family of the trainer.

[8lovesmickey]

I am also torn on this one - in general I hate to see wild animals in captivity, but if not for Seaworld most people would never even know what a killer whale is, not to mention see one in person. For me personally, seeing a killer whale up close in captivity has made me want to protect the wild ones.

That said, I feel like the Seaworld staff members really love these animals and treat them as well as they can be treated given the circumstances.

On the other (other?!) side, even domesticated pets turn on their owners or neighbors sometimes; why should a whale be different? It just happens that this particular animal weighs thousands of pounds. Just because they look cute and behave like pets doesn't make them gentle.

In any case, my thoughts and prayers are with the trainer and her family and friends.

[challer]

People keep saying that without SW, people wouldn't be exposed to killer whales, dolphins, etc. I disagree. I have taken my family to Sea World (San Diego) and my kids felt like they were in a theme park. 6 months later, I took my family on a whale watching day trip from Vancouver. We saw killer whales in their habitat, and my kids truly felt that they were seeing nature in action. We also saw plenty of sea lions. Guess what: a day on a boat watching killer whales is much cheaper than a day at Sea World. When I compare the two experiences, Sea World loses hands down on multiple levels. Excitement, education, understanding, uniqueness, etc. Yeah, you don't see whales jumping up to touch a red ball on a string or sea lions dancing to music, but that goes back to the question of whether we should be training these animals to do tricks for our applause.

(Two weeks ago, I got back from Mexico when my kids rescued leatherback sea turtle eggs and helped to release the babies back into the ocean. Another unique natural experience my children shall never forget.)

People ask, "Who takes their families on vacation to do that?" First of all, experiences like that are all over the Pacific coast. If you can go to Disneyland, you can do this. Secondly, if you make it a priority to give your family/children unique and enlightening experiences, especially related to nature and/or wildlife, it can easily be planned and done (on a budget less than a theme park ticket).

But I guess if the only family vacations one plans are theme park related, then, yes, Sea World is the only way to give these beautiful creatures the exposure they deserve.

[8lovesmickey]

I agree that the best way to see wild animals in the wild - whale watching in Hawaii gave me a much better appreciation than seeing belugas at the zoo. Unfortunately I can't afford to take my kids to Hawaii at this point...

For better or worse there are hundreds of thousands of people filtering through Sea World every year and I think of their whales as ambassadors for the species - if one whale in captivity can save hundreds in the wild it seems a reasonable thing to me.

[challer]

One doesn't have to go to Hawaii. You can go to northern Cali, Oregon coast, or Seattle. If you can fly to Disneyland, you can get to see this.

All I'm saying is that Sea World is not the only place or best place to get this exposure, nor is it close to being as inspring as experiencing natural wildlife in its undisturbed splendor.

[WaltD4Me]

I'm fustrated by the number of news people talking about releasing these animals back into the oceans. They make it sound like you could just dump them back in the ocean and they would be fine. That is not the case though. To my knowledge that has never been done successfully. I remember the whole Free Willy thing and he ended up dying I think a year or two later. Right or wrong, most of the whales at SW were born in captivity and you cannot just set them free in the ocean, they would not survive. Even Tilly, who was not born in captivity, could not just be released. It's a nice image, but it is not as simple as some in the media are making it out to be.

[dalt01]

I'm fustrated by the number of news people talking about releasing these animals back into the oceans. They make it sound like you could just dump them back in the ocean and they would be fine. That is not the case though. To my knowledge that has never been done successfully. I remember the whole Free Willy thing and he ended up dying I think a year or two later. Right or wrong, most of the whales at SW were born in captivity and you cannot just set them free in the ocean, they would not survive. Even Tilly, who was not born in captivity, could not just be released. It's a nice image, but it is not as simple as some in the media are making it out to be.:thumbsup2 it has been proven with humans that you are indeed a product of your environment.....in simple terms you dont miss what you are unaware of. they have done experiments with small fish and put a glass divider in the tank for a period of time and then took it out.............the fish went to the point where the glass had been and no further. this orca would spend the rest of his shortened life looking for the corners of the tank and the person with the food.

[DisneyKevin]

One doesn't have to go to Hawaii. You can go to northern Cali, Oregon coast, or Seattle. If you can fly to Disneyland, you can get to see this.

All I'm saying is that Sea World is not the only place or best place to get this exposure, nor is it close to being as inspring as experiencing natural wildlife in its undisturbed splendor.

While this an admirable thing to do....not everyone has the opportunity to fly to the Oregon coast or even the California coast.

Sea World parks are usually in vacation destinations.

With vacation time and money often being very short, people having a choice to see a whale in Oregon or a whale in Sea World with coasters and other attractions as well as the opportunity to visit Disney are probably going to choose that.

In addition....Sea World offers an amusement park and a nature experience combined. I believe many people leave Sea World with a greater interest in sea life than they would have had had they not visited. I'm not entirely certain that whale watching in any location would have been their next vacation choice, thereby giving Sea World a "twofer" experience.

Again....I think seeing sea life in their natural environment is awesome, but I doubt you'll reach the same size audience.

[Justin Jett]

While this an admirable thing to do....not everyone has the opportunity to fly to the Oregon coast or even the California coast.

Sea World parks are usually in vacation destinations.

With vacation time and money often being very short, people having a choice to see a whale in Oregon or a whale in Sea World with coasters and other attractions as well as the opportunity to visit Disney are probably going to choose that.

In addition....Sea World offers an amusement park and a nature experience combined. I believe many people leave Sea World with a greater interest in sea life than they would have had had they not visited. I'm not entirely certain that whale watching in any location would have been their next vacation choice, thereby giving Sea World a "twofer" experience.

Again....I think seeing sea life in their natural environment is awesome, but I doubt you'll reach the same size audience.

:thumbsup2:thumbsup2:thumbsup2:thumbsup2:thumbsup2

[challer]

While this an admirable thing to do....not everyone has the opportunity to fly to the Oregon coast or even the California coast.

Sea World parks are usually in vacation destinations.

With vacation time and money often being very short, people having a choice to see a whale in Oregon or a whale in Sea World with coasters and other attractions as well as the opportunity to visit Disney are probably going to choose that.

In addition....Sea World offers an amusement park and a nature experience combined. I believe many people leave Sea World with a greater interest in sea life than they would have had had they not visited. I'm not entirely certain that whale watching in any location would have been their next vacation choice, thereby giving Sea World a "twofer" experience.

Again....I think seeing sea life in their natural environment is awesome, but I doubt you'll reach the same size audience.

Yes, not everyone has the opportunity to make a trip like that. However, Sea World is in 3 places: Orlando (a big vacation destination), San Diego (same, but less so), and San Antonio (not the great family destination). If you go to southern California (prime vacation destination), you can see whales and dolphins in their natural habitat (I have found at least one tour in 3 seconds of googling). Heck, you can see whales/dolphins off the coast of Long Island, New Jersey, and, yes, even Florida. Most right whale sightings in Florida occur between the months of November and April - prime vacation time. Sure, it's not as abundant as Vancouver, but it is there.

Depending on one's starting point, a vacation to Seattle, for example, can include whale watching, roller coasters at Wild Waves, and a themed hotel in Great Wolf Lodge. I know Orlando is the epicenter of family vacations, but to say simply "to see a whale in Oregon" is doing a disservice - these tours are typically a full day event that can be the highlight of a vacation. One can have a hugely successful family vacation away from a multiple theme park area. And the point about money being tight is correct - a full day tour out on the water is much cheaper than a day at Sea World. The down side is that you won't get a shamu souvenir cup or a pressed penny. (I also think many parents believe children require thrill rides to have a thrill - I wholeheartedly disagree.)

Yes, you won't reach the same size audience without Sea World. I agree one hundred percent. I just find it sad that this is the way to reach to people, and in my experience with my children, their interest in sea life and its habitat was fleeting and warped after the Sea World experience compared to the real deal. And what are we doing to these creatures in the theme parks to accomplish this? And how much of an impression are we taking home when our view of dancing dolphins is sandwiched between rides on Kraken and Manta on a day sandwiched between days at the Disney/Universal parks?

Since my last visit to Sea World, I have been on the fence on the issue of whether theme parks like this (or swim-with-dolphin experiences) are more of a service or a disservice to the creatures. It is accidents like the unfortunate episode that recently occurred that jolt the issue in my mind. I know Sea World has value to it (especially compared to other theme park franchises), but I still cannot help thinking - is this the right way to do it, and at what cost?

[aspen37]

Sea World does a great job of saving animals and putting them back in the wild also.

I lived in Southern California as a child and loved to go to MarineLand. As a child I was able to see the Orcas, Seals, Dolphins, touch pools and other animals I would never have gotten to see otherwise. This is where my love for the ocean began. I feel bad that the Dolphins and Orcas are kept in pools, but I will never forget when I was around six standing in front of the glass and a Orca came up to me and we watched each other for about three or four minutes. I was able to look in his/her eyes and it touched me in a way that seeing them in the wild couldn't. I am forty one now and that memory is still as powerful for me now as it was when I was six.

I don't know what the answer is about keeping animals like Orcas and Dolphins in captivity is. It does sadden me when I think about their lives and would I want to be kept in a concrete pool for most of my life or all of it, and of course the answer is no. I still have never seen and Orca in the wild , but hope to sometime in my life.

[Joshua_me]

Yes, but why should wildlife be captured just so humans can see them ?

This entire notion of, "Without Sea World and places like them, we would never have had the opportunity to learn about aquatic life" rings false to me.

Wild life belongs in the wild. Seems to me that the orca's and dolphins pay a mighty high price: Living in what are essentially concrete boxes so that thousands of folks everyday can watch them "wave" and "blow kisses" to their trainers smacks of corporate profit, not what is best for those creatures.

I hope that our society is on the verge of a rethinking of this concept, that animals are not here for our amusement.

[aspen37]

Yes, but why should wildlife be captured just so humans can see them ?

This entire notion of, "Without Sea World and places like them, we would never have had the opportunity to learn about aquatic life" rings false to me.

Wild life belongs in the wild. Seems to me that the orca's and dolphins pay a mighty high price: Living in what are essentially concrete boxes so that thousands of folks everyday can watch them "wave" and "blow kisses" to their trainers smacks of corporate profit, not what is best for those creatures.

I hope that our society is on the verge of a rethinking of this concept, that animals are not here for our amusement.

I live in the mountains of Colorado. You wouldn't believe how many kids come from big cities and have never seen a horse or the mountains. Believe it or not, not everyone can afford to go and see sea life in the wild. I would love to go to the Monterey Bay Aquarium. They were the first aquarium that was able to keep a Great White Shark for an extended period of time. We know very little about them and guess what people love to kill them. If people can see them and understand them better maybe they will have a chance in the future, because if we keep killing them they will be gone.

[challer]

Yes, but why should wildlife be captured just so humans can see them ?

This entire notion of, "Without Sea World and places like them, we would never have had the opportunity to learn about aquatic life" rings false to me.


I second that.

[DisneyKevin]

Yes, but why should wildlife be captured just so humans can see them ?

This entire notion of, "Without Sea World and places like them, we would never have had the opportunity to learn about aquatic life" rings false to me.

I dont think anyone implied that "we would never have had the opportunity to learn about aquatic life".

I just think less people would have the opportunity to have any kind of proximity to some of these creatures and I think proximity leads to interest which leads to education.

I understand that there are places to go to watch whales, but whales are just one of the exhibits at Sea World. There is also a huge penguin exhibit and I'm not sure from where the "penguin watching" boats depart, but I'm guessing it's not the continental US. There is also a shark exhibit. They are also a bit hard to see outside of Sea World or someplace like it.

I stated very early on that I was a fence sitter in this discussion. I still am.

While I see where the whale has no fault in this tragedy.....I also see where places like Sea World (and the larger zoos) have a place. Sea World does have a large rescue, rehabilitate and release program. They also allow animals that, for whatever reason, would not survive in the "wild", to live a longer, healthier life. The manatees on display at Sea World both come to mind.

Sea World and other zoos also are doing great work with breeding programs.

There are some species that, without the intervention of wildlife parks, might be extinct.

With that being said, I also see that that in almost every situation, that they might be extinct because of man's involvement.

I told you....I'm a fence sitter.

[kaligal]

I like Sea World.

I like Shamu.

[challer]

...and The Cove wins the Oscar for Best Documentary Film.

See this movie, especially if you don't quite understand what the downside of the Sea World-style theme parks are.

[disneyholic family]

...and The Cove wins the Oscar for Best Documentary Film.

See this movie, especially if you don't quite understand what the downside of the Sea World-style theme parks are.

we only went to sea world once, about 6 years ago i think it was..
we were there for about 2 or 3 hours, but were so disturbed by it we left, vowing we would never go back....

when you were in eilat, did you visit Dolphin Reef? the dolphins who live there aren't forced to perform....they're not even asked to perform......they get their fish regardless (and live in the sea, so can snack between meals)...
when the dolphins play with the researchers, it's when the dolphins feel like it...
if they don't feel like it, no big deal (they usually don't feel like playing, but every now and then they do, when the mood strikes them)...

anyway, it's not exactly their natural habitat, since there are lots of humans in very close proximity, but they are living in the Red Sea not in some tiny little pool and theý're not forced to perfom ....

[Joshua_me]

we only went to sea world once, about 6 years ago i think it was..
we were there for about 2 or 3 hours, but were so disturbed by it we left, vowing we would never go back....


Hmm.

That's interesting.

As a kid, the concept of Sea World never bothered me at all. My family would go there at least once a year and my Mom would always start crying during the dolphin show. Once they started with that cheesy music over the speakers she was a goner... :sad2:

But, as an adult the more I think about things the less likely I am to return to that park. It's the same reason I hate the circus... As I said before, animals are NOT here for our amusement !

Now, I know this is a touchy subject, and I know I have to tread lightly on these boards. It's hard to justify my love for the AK and to boycott Sea World in the same breath...

All I can say is it's a gut emotion I have, and emotions seldom follow logic.

I'm just left with the feeling that keeping large sea creatures in concrete boxes so their sonar can bounce off the walls and slowly drive them crazy is NOT something I want to be a part of...

I think the conditions created by AK for land animals are much more natural and far less imprisoning. But still, I'm troubled by the entire concept of keeping animals on display for corporate profit. And at the end of the day that's the real bottom line.

[disneyholic family]

Hmm.

That's interesting.

As a kid, the concept of Sea World never bothered me at all. My family would go there at least once a year and my Mom would always start crying during the dolphin show. Once they started with that cheesy music over the speakers she was a goner... :sad2:

But, as an adult the more I think about things the less likely I am to return to that park. It's the same reason I hate the circus... As I said before, animals are NOT here for our amusement !

Now, I know this is a touchy subject, and I know I have to tread lightly on these boards. It's hard to justify my love for the AK and to boycott Sea World in the same breath...

All I can say is it's a gut emotion I have, and emotions seldom follow logic.

I'm just left with the feeling that keeping large sea creatures in concrete boxes so their sonar can bounce off the walls and slowly drive them crazy is NOT something I want to be a part of...

I think the conditions created by AK for land animals are much more natural and far less imprisoning. But still, I'm troubled by the entire concept of keeping animals on display for corporate profit. And at the end of the day that's the real bottom line.

i think there's a difference as to the conditions in which the animals are kept (SW vs AK)....and also what is required of the animals...

but yes, AK isn't their natural environment...that's for sure...
but clearly i don't find it disturbing since i do go back...
am i a hypocrit?

[challer]

when you were in eilat, did you visit Dolphin Reef? the dolphins who live there aren't forced to perform....they're not even asked to perform......they get their fish regardless (and live in the sea, so can snack between meals)...
when the dolphins play with the researchers, it's when the dolphins feel like it...
if they don't feel like it, no big deal (they usually don't feel like playing, but every now and then they do, when the mood strikes them)...


Nah. We skipped it. We were much more interested in the underwater observatory, where we could see the marine wildlife in their true natural habitat. It wasn't a conscious decision to avoid the dolphin area. It's just that nature in natural surroundings is what we're more interested in.

You want offensive? Go to King City (Ir Hamalachim) in Eilat. That place is disgusting. ;)

[Justin Jett]

In fairness to SeaWorld and animal trainers in general: It is important to note that training procedures and handling procedures have evolved and improved since the days of the "Flipper" TV show.

The handling procedures at SeaWorld will continue to improve evolve. Training is part of mental stimulation, and money is used for quality care.

[disneyholic family]

Nah. We skipped it. We were much more interested in the underwater observatory, where we could see the marine wildlife in their true natural habitat. It wasn't a conscious decision to avoid the dolphin area. It's just that nature in natural surroundings is what we're more interested in.

You want offensive? Go to King City (Ir Hamalachim) in Eilat. That place is disgusting. ;)

you really missed out not going to dolphin reef....
we LOVE it there...
absolutely THE best beach in eilat...
when gil took his week long scuba certification course there a few years ago, while he was in class, i just lazed the day away on the beach and out on the docks with the dolphins...a little bit of paradise for me...
sitting on the beach, looking at the sea and desert and mountains across the way in jordan....really lovely..
and íf you think the dolphins live there like at sea world, you're completely wrong..
they live in the sea, and can come and go through the outer netting area, out into the sea...
it's a really amazing place....

and the dolphins ARE living in their natural habitat there...

you really really really missed out by not going there..

[challer]

you really really really missed out by not going there..

I'm sure, but we were low on time and I know we'll be back.

[challer]

After last week's "Universal Show", with the DIS crew discussing Sea World with Corene Frye, I was curious if anyone had anything to add. This thread seemed like one of the hotbeds of discussion after the tragedy.

I have to admit, I did find myself yelling at my ipod a bit.

[Kuffam]

I agree, I am starting to think that way too. I saw the movie Hatri (sp?) with John Wayne and after that I only wanted to see animals that were born in captivity or "rescued". Now I'm begining to question of any zoo or aquarium is really ethical. Zoo's and aquariums do lots for introducing people to animal live and conservation, but how do the animals there benefit?

[Joshua_me]

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af72/Joshua_me/19950615.gif

[challer]

I agree, I am starting to think that way too. I saw the movie Hatri (sp?) with John Wayne and after that I only wanted to see animals that were born in captivity or "rescued". Now I'm begining to question of any zoo or aquarium is really ethical. Zoo's and aquariums do lots for introducing people to animal live and conservation, but how do the animals there benefit?

At least in an aquarium they aren't made to dance and jump and perform for the human folk. They can at least remain marine life and act like it.

[Justin Jett]

The training to do tricks is mental stimulation, and the admission cost makes quality care possible. As someone who raises and trains animals, I personally see many benefits to the shows at SeaWorld, for both the animals and guests alike.

I am very saddened by the negative comments about SeaWorld. I personally think SeaWorld is a wonderful place.

People will always debate animal issues, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Animal shows have been around for well over a century, and SeaWorld is the best at what they do.

[challer]

Hooray, Pete, for watching "The Cove." Here's to more discussion...

[Justin Jett]

Please remember that the information in "The Cove" may have been factual at one point in time, but animal handling procedures change with time.

Remember that Pete said he has not had time to do his own research, and he does not really know if the stuff in the film is propaganda or not. I encourage Pete and everyone to research CURRENT methods of acquiring and caring for marine mammels. Also, do some research into who Ric O'Barry is as a person.

Please dont let this one film detour anyone from visiting SeaWorld's wonderful parks.