Are Florida schools THAT bad?

[two-foxes]

We had a guy who has a pretty good job in the Orlando area (Sanford) fly out here to Colorado to interview at my agency. A Florida native, he said he is very very ready to leave Florida due to the hurricanes, the humidity and mainly for the horrible school system. I figured it would be a bit unprofessional for me to grill him on exactly how bad the schools are (I usually tell DH we should move before our monkeys get into school....), but I read here all the time of folks wanting to get IN to Florida, and here is this guy begging to get out....are the schools really that bad?

I have a cousin who owns a rental home in Celebration who wanted to move back to that house after she had her baby because the schools in that area were supposed to be great....it was a few years ago though and they are still living in Cleveland, so maybe they have gone down hill recently?

[catycatcat4]

Yes, they are absolutely awful.
The people in charge are idiots
Most of the teachers can't teach.
Most of the teachers don't give a crap.
Did i mention the people in charge of the schools are idiots?:mad:

[WaltD4Me]

We had a guy who has a pretty good job in the Orlando area (Sanford) fly out here to Colorado to interview at my agency. A Florida native, he said he is very very ready to leave Florida due to the hurricanes, the humidity and mainly for the horrible school system. I figured it would be a bit unprofessional for me to grill him on exactly how bad the schools are (I usually tell DH we should move before our monkeys get into school....), but I read here all the time of folks wanting to get IN to Florida, and here is this guy begging to get out....are the schools really that bad?

I have a cousin who owns a rental home in Celebration who wanted to move back to that house after she had her baby because the schools in that area were supposed to be great....it was a few years ago though and they are still living in Cleveland, so maybe they have gone down hill recently?

Well, I don't know, but I think it's a sure thing that Celebration schools are WAY better Cleveland schools.

I would imagine Florida it much like anywhere, there are good school districts, not so good districts and bad districts. Seems like I actually hear more positive things about schools in Florida than negative though.

[vicki_c]

I'd say yes. We sent our son to Catholic school while we lived in Florida.

Just like any state, it's going to be somewhat dependent on WHERE in the state you are. I lived in a county known to have some of the best Florida schools but I still couldn't even begin to compare them to the NYS schools we had come from.

So we shelled out for Catholic school tuition. My kids now go to public school in Maryland which I think is easily equal to the Catholic school in Florida, probably better (I know a few other families that moved from FL to MD at the same time -- our kids went to the same school in both locations - and that seems to be the general consensus).

[DisneyKevin]

Yes, they are absolutely awful.
The people in charge are idiots
Most of the teachers can't teach.
Most of the teachers don't give a crap.
Did i mention the people in charge of the schools are idiots?:mad:

Please keep in mind that CatyCatCat4 is a high school student.

Also...the grass is always greener.

People who have lived in Florida for a long time yearn to live where it _____ (fill in the blank....snows, change of seasons, no hurricanes etc)

People who live where it snows long to live where_______(fill in the blank...is always warm, is always sunny, never snows etc)

People who live someplace land locked want to live near the beach.

People who live near the beach want to live near the mountains.

Now...before you write and tell me that you live near the ______ and love it and wouldnt live anywhere else where there wasnt ______, I get that.

Just saying that it always seem to look better someplace else.

I lived in the cold, snowy Northeast.

I now live in FL.....and the grass is definitely greener .....almost all year long.:thumbsup2

[ADP]

Please keep in mind that CatyCatCat4 is a high school student.

Also...the grass is always greener.

People who have lived in Florida for a long time yearn to live where it _____ (fill in the blank....snows, change of seasons, no hurricanes etc)

People who live where it snows long to live where_______(fill in the blank...is always warm, is always sunny, nevere snos etc)

People who live someplace land locked want to live near the beach.

People who live near the beach want to live near the mountains.

Now...before you write and tell me that you live near the ______ and love it and wouldnt live anywhere else where there wasnt ______, I get that.

Just saying that it always seem to look better someplace else.

I lived in the cold, snowy Northeast.

I now live in FL.....and the grass is definitely greener .....almost all year long.:thumbsup2
All good points Kevin.
In other words....Perception is in the eye of the beholder.

[dpuck1998]

We had a guy who has a pretty good job in the Orlando area (Sanford) fly out here to Colorado to interview at my agency. A Florida native, he said he is very very ready to leave Florida due to the hurricanes, the humidity and mainly for the horrible school system. I figured it would be a bit unprofessional for me to grill him on exactly how bad the schools are (I usually tell DH we should move before our monkeys get into school....), but I read here all the time of folks wanting to get IN to Florida, and here is this guy begging to get out....are the schools really that bad?

I have a cousin who owns a rental home in Celebration who wanted to move back to that house after she had her baby because the schools in that area were supposed to be great....it was a few years ago though and they are still living in Cleveland, so maybe they have gone down hill recently?

Little additional insight. I work for a school in Michigan. People in that go here, work here, etc complain about how bad it is...etc etc. While outside the area our school had a gleaming reputation. Find the best school district in the country and you will find hundreds of people to complain about that same district. You get out of your childrens eduction what you put into it. If you expect to drop your kids off at the door and pick them up at 3 all "learn'ed" up, they the school will fail you miserably. If you get involved and get to know the people and become and active part of your child's eduction then you will have a great experience. I always tell my kids, You won't like all your teachers, some will be good and others bad. Guess what, the same goes for your employers.

[livndisney]

Ooh the stories I could tell. LOST children, disabilities issues, lack of quality teachers and materials........school administration that is a joke.

[ADP]

Little additional insight. I work for a school in Michigan. People in that go here, work here, etc complain about how bad it is...etc etc. While outside the area our school had a gleaming reputation. Find the best school district in the country and you will find hundreds of people to complain about that same district. You get out of your childrens eduction what you put into it. If you expect to drop your kids off at the door and pick them up at 3 all "learn'ed" up, they the school will fail you miserably. If you get involved and get to know the people and become and active part of your child's eduction then you will have a great experience. I always tell my kids, You won't like all your teachers, some will be good and others bad. Guess what, the same goes for your employers.
Great advice...As a parent we spend 2 additional hours per night working with our daughter on her homework and studies making sure she understands the concepts. You just can't expect kids to learn everything in a typical 6 to 7 hour school day anymore. And don't forget, there's more than just their studies...They have to learn life's lessons along the way.

[PeterPan09]

Little additional insight. I work for a school in Michigan. People in that go here, work here, etc complain about how bad it is...etc etc. While outside the area our school had a gleaming reputation. Find the best school district in the country and you will find hundreds of people to complain about that same district. You get out of your childrens eduction what you put into it. If you expect to drop your kids off at the door and pick them up at 3 all "learn'ed" up, they the school will fail you miserably. If you get involved and get to know the people and become and active part of your child's eduction then you will have a great experience. I always tell my kids, You won't like all your teachers, some will be good and others bad. Guess what, the same goes for your employers.

Very well said.

[vicki_c]

Little additional insight. I work for a school in Michigan. People in that go here, work here, etc complain about how bad it is...etc etc. While outside the area our school had a gleaming reputation. Find the best school district in the country and you will find hundreds of people to complain about that same district. You get out of your childrens eduction what you put into it. If you expect to drop your kids off at the door and pick them up at 3 all "learn'ed" up, they the school will fail you miserably. If you get involved and get to know the people and become and active part of your child's eduction then you will have a great experience. I always tell my kids, You won't like all your teachers, some will be good and others bad. Guess what, the same goes for your employers.

I don't disagree with what you said, but that's not really what I was referring to. In my experience, it wasn't about the kids and whether they were learning what was being taught in the school - they were. It was about WHAT the school in Florida was teaching vs. what our new school was teaching (I did send my son to FL public school for one year). It's more about the rigor of the subjects being taught and expectations the schools had for the kids. I found that to be much less in the FL public school, and even our FL Catholic school, than I do in our public school in our new location.

It was never a question of whether the kids were absorbing what was being taught in the school. And we were just as involved in Florida as we are here.

[dpuck1998]

I don't disagree with what you said, but that's not really what I was referring to. In my experience, it wasn't about the kids and whether they were learning what was being taught in the school - they were. It was about WHAT the school in Florida was teaching vs. what our new school was teaching (I did send my son to FL public school for one year). It's more about the rigor of the subjects being taught and expectations the schools had for the kids. I found that to be much less in the FL public school, and even our FL Catholic school, than I do in our public school in our new location.

It was never a question of whether the kids were absorbing what was being taught in the school. And we were just as involved in Florida as we are here.

I can see your point a little there. I went to school in Michigan and my sister in Florida. She was learning things her senior year I had done my freshman year. I think they could accelerate the curriculum a bit, but we both went to college and picked up from there.

I wasn't reference any one post, so I hope you didn't think I was saying anyone wasn't involved with their kids education.

My main point is, any school will have people that love it and hate it. Any child will be successful not because of what he learned in school, but what he learned at home. Too many parents expect the schools to do it all and that is too much to ask. Its unfortunate, but it seems the majority have taken that route and teachers are over tasked trying to work with the kids that have no home support and the kids that work hard and excel don't' get pushed in their education.

[Willow1213]

Schools were one of the main reasons my parents moved us from Orlando in 1996/1997. I know I was only in elementary school, but I noticed a huge difference in what I was learning. In 5th grade, I moved from Orange County school system in Orlando, to a top school in Cobb County, GA in March. I was so far behind I had to have months of private tutoring, after school help, and remedial classes even though I was in the "gifted" program in my old school. I finally caught up and was placed back in the honors level classes I was used to the next year. Now, I was young, but I will never forget how stressful it was to me (at 11!) to be so far behind.

[pudge the fish]

It depends on the area. Orlando area has some really good schools and good teachers and it has some really BAD administration & policies.


One word (or is it two??) F-Cat
The F-CAT is all important in Florida; it rules EVERYTHING to do with education.

My kids go/went to private schools. This way they learn more than what is taught for the F-Cat.
At least in private school if there is a teacher absent, they get a sub. Unlike my friends kids who go to a gym and the kids sit there all day, because there is no money to hire a sub.

[cj9200]

In Miami there are really good schools and really bad ones. Luckily, my daughter was accepted to a magnet program in elementary school. Since the first grade she has had a rigorous academic curriculum. She is now taking three advanced placement courses as a sophomore. I would put her education against anywhere in the country. Public or private. Unfortunately not all kids down here have that type of experience.

[daneenm]

Little additional insight. I work for a school in Michigan. People in that go here, work here, etc complain about how bad it is...etc etc. While outside the area our school had a gleaming reputation. Find the best school district in the country and you will find hundreds of people to complain about that same district. You get out of your childrens eduction what you put into it. If you expect to drop your kids off at the door and pick them up at 3 all "learn'ed" up, they the school will fail you miserably. If you get involved and get to know the people and become and active part of your child's eduction then you will have a great experience. I always tell my kids, You won't like all your teachers, some will be good and others bad. Guess what, the same goes for your employers.

Well said Don. These are exactly the discussions I have with other folks when I hear them complain about our district or local school and why I have never requested a teacher for my children. We have to learn to get along with everyone, not just those that we click with...no better time to learn it.

[catycatcat4]

Please keep in mind that CatyCatCat4 is a high school student. yup witch means i know more about whats really going on once they lock us students up in the morning.

I will reply to this thread in more detail later. my head is killing me today.
:headache:

[lugnut33]

Most school districts (including Orange County https://www.ocps.net/sb/Pages/default.aspx ) are run by school boards that are made up of community members just like you and me. The school board is a reflection of the community.

[dpuck1998]

yup witch means i know more about whats really going on once they lock us students up in the morning.

I will reply to this thread in more detail later. my head is killing me today.
:headache:

I thought you were home schooled? :confused3

[LilGMom]

It really depends on the area and even in one county you can have such a wide range of schools and how they rate. Based on the Florida District rankings my county is rated fourth out of sixty-five for schools which isn't too bad. My DS's elementary school is in the top 10% of all of the FL elementary schools which also isn't too bad. :) Most of the schools in my county are ranked as either A or B schools. I'm sure there are areas where the schools are failing (just one county to my west has a few) but you'll get that in any state.

[dpuck1998]

It really depends on the area and even in one county you can have such a wide range of schools and how they rate. Based on the Florida District rankings my county is rated fourth out of sixty-five for schools which isn't too bad. My DS's elementary school is in the top 10% of all of the FL elementary schools which also isn't too bad. :) Most of the schools in my county are ranked as either A or B schools. I'm sure there are areas where the schools are failing (just one county to my west has a few) but you'll get that in any state.

Honestly, I know exactly how they rate the schools in Michigan. I "failing" school around here really means nothing in real terms. The way they "grade" them is ridiculous. A school the performs excellent may fail they next year for failure to show enough improvement. The state system is flawed...like most things they do.

[catycatcat4]

I thought you were home schooled? :confused3
Yes but my first semester ended like a couple weeks ago i doubt the schools have changed that much in one semester and all my friends are still so i know what i'm talking about.

[schoen]

I know that when I was in college studying education we watched a documentary about the FL school system. Education is technically a state right, therefore, should be run by the state. There are federal programs that school are essentially forced to participate in (no child left behind). The way that FL has set up some of it's assessment schedules are pretty silly.

In the video, for example, there was a very gifted young woman who was ready to go to harvard, but she couldn't graduate because she couldn't pass some random test that is required by the state. I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember the profs telling us that we should be prepared if we decided to go to FL. to teach.

I graduated from Michigan State, which has one of, well, technically, if you look at lists and rankings... best schools of ed in the country. I get calls from FL districts at least two or three times a year offering me money to just come and interview.

I don't know a lot of specifics, but I do know that I got a negative impression of FL as a teaching state in college.

[catycatcat4]

I know that when I was in college studying education we watched a documentary about the FL school system. Education is technically a state right, therefore, should be run by the state. There are federal programs that school are essentially forced to participate in (no child left behind). The way that FL has set up some of it's assessment schedules are pretty silly.

In the video, for example, there was a very gifted young woman who was ready to go to harvard, but she couldn't graduate because she couldn't pass some random test that is required by the state. I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember the profs telling us that we should be prepared if we decided to go to FL. to teach.

I graduated from Michigan State, which has one of, well, technically, if you look at lists and rankings... best schools of ed in the country. I get calls from FL districts at least two or three times a year offering me money to just come and interview.

I don't know a lot of specifics, but I do know that I got a negative impression of FL as a teaching state in college.
The fcat, Things like that happen all time you could be an all A and B student and not be allowed to graduate of that stupid test.

[WebmasterJohn]

It may have changed but the last report I read on the Florida school system was that it ranked 49th in the nation. There was only one state that ranked lower than Florida.

I have no idea what the criteria was or how the system was set-up for the ranking - but that's a pretty scary number.

With that said there are also some school districts within the state that are very highly sought after - I can only assume it's because they have a better ranking of some some sort.

We talk about these on the show from time-to-time - Dr. Phillips area and Celebration area schools seems to be the ones people want to send their children to.

I don't know what external influences make one school better or worse than another. I assume it has to do with funds but all over this state I see signs that say XX Billion of Dollars has gone to schools so far from the Lottery.

Makes you wonder what exactly is going on.......

[dalt01]

once they lock us students up in the morning.

what does that mean?

[IWISHFORDISNEY]

I actually did alot of research on this before we moved here in July. FL has some really good schools and some really bad ones. So when you mix that all together with a state this large the numbers are not so great. But here is a comparison I found on two sites school digger and national stats.

Where I live now is very similar to Celebration rankings. My district has 4 elementary schools. Suntree, Quest, Manatee, and Ralph Williams. all in the top 2% in FL and 20% nationally. However 17 miles down the road has schools that are literally ranked almost last in the state and nationally. Now compared to DE where we moved from:

Manatee 10/10 possible points for test scores, class size, parents feelings and "A" rated school which is all test scores.

Olive B Loss 8/10 and "A" rated in DE. So we actually improved moving from suburb to suburb. Just look around and do your homework. Also go to the school and take a tour. That is what I found most helpful.

I love the school digger site because it breaks down everything you could possibly imagine, grades, class size, busing demographics. Very specific things that may matter to you. It also listed neighborhoods in walking distance to the schools. Which is how we went house hunting.

[disneymom8589]

Yes, they are absolutely awful.
The people in charge are idiots
Most of the teachers can't teach.
Most of the teachers don't give a crap.
Did i mention the people in charge of the schools are idiots?:mad:

As a teacher (although not in Florida), I am trying hard to keep from commenting on these statements. :rolleyes:

[dalt01]

As a teacher (although not in Florida), I am trying hard to keep from commenting on these statements. :rolleyes:she is like 16 or 17. generally she gets a pass from us. as i would hope that if my 17 year old daughter made statements that were based more on peer insight than fact, she would get one also.

[vicki_c]

I actually did alot of research on this before we moved here in July. FL has some really good schools and some really bad ones. So when you mix that all together with a state this large the numbers are not so great. But here is a comparison I found on two sites school digger and national stats.

Where I live now is very similar to Celebration rankings. My district has 4 elementary schools. Suntree, Quest, Manatee, and Ralph Williams. all in the top 2% in FL and 20% nationally. However 17 miles down the road has schools that are literally ranked almost last in the state and nationally. Now compared to DE where we moved from:

Manatee 10/10 possible points for test scores, class size, parents feelings and "A" rated school which is all test scores.

Olive B Loss 8/10 and "A" rated in DE. So we actually improved moving from suburb to suburb. Just look around and do your homework. Also go to the school and take a tour. That is what I found most helpful.

I love the school digger site because it breaks down everything you could possibly imagine, grades, class size, busing demographics. Very specific things that may matter to you. It also listed neighborhoods in walking distance to the schools. Which is how we went house hunting.

My son could have gone to Ralph Williams but we still picked Ascension and paid for it! I would have done Suntree but we didn't live close enough. Ralph Williams kind of scared me despite its better rankings, but that might just be my own issue after seeing the school.

[catycatcat4]

As a teacher (although not in Florida), I am trying hard to keep from commenting on these statements. :rolleyes:
Go a head and comment i'm mature enough to handle it.

she is like 16 or 17. generally she gets a pass from us. as i would hope that if my 17 year old daughter made statements that were based more on peer insight than fact, she would get one also.
Stupid question but i'm halve awake so.
Thats a good thing right?

[JoShan1719]

I can only speak for Broward County, which is where I attended school. In eight grade I left public school for homeschool. I actually did nothing for the entire year (seriously, I babysat my niece, no school work). When I returned to public school for ninth grade, I was still two grades above level. In my senior year I decided not to attend one of my classes for about six weeks. When I did finally come back I made up all of the missing work in one class period, scoring high marks on all the assignments, and still passed the class. Before I was born my family lived in New York. When they moved down here all three of my siblings were three tested grades above the rest of their classmates. As PPs said, most of it depends on the actual school district, mine just happened to suck royally.

[disneymom8589]

Go a head and comment i'm mature enough to handle it.


Stupid question but i'm halve awake so.
Thats a good thing right?

I'm sorry if you haven't had the best experience with your teachers. I do understand that there are teachers out there who don't put a lot into what they do, but I guess I get a little defensive when I see the word "most teachers" in your post. That's a pretty big general statement. I really hope your future educational experiences are more positive for you. :)

[Halbleib1]

Yes, they are absolutely awful.
The people in charge are idiots
Most of the teachers can't teach.
Most of the teachers don't give a crap.
Did i mention the people in charge of the schools are idiots?:mad:

When my grandparents moved to Florida years ago my aunt actually helped the teacher grade papers and to teach the class because she was so much further ahead of the other kids. And no my aunt was not ahead of the class here at home she was actually behind here. Years later we had a neighbor move to Florida for a couple of years and their kids said the same thing when they moved back. School was so much easier there than here they said. Things could have changed by now though.

[Halbleib1]

As a teacher (although not in Florida), I am trying hard to keep from commenting on these statements. :rolleyes:

There are good teachers and bad teachers everywhere. I had some great teachers in school and I had some really awful teachers. Awful as in some were very mean with no reason and liked to intimidate you in front of the whole class if you did not understand something or if you did not have the right answer. One teacher that I had in high school actually banned tape recording in his class after someone tried to tape his class because he knew that if that tape got into the wrong hands he would no longer have a job. His whole class he sat there picking on people. It ranged from what the person wore to school to how smart they were or weren't. Yes he was reported but no one at the school would believe the students therefore he kept his job. Other awful teachers didn't actually teach you anything therefore you can't really call them teachers. You were expected to teach yourself. I had that in both high school and college actually.

[Halbleib1]

The fcat, Things like that happen all time you could be an all A and B student and not be allowed to graduate of that stupid test.

The year I graduated high school if we did not complete a senior project we would not have been allowed to graduate. It had nothing to do with grades it all came down to that one last project. Pretty stupid to have so much ride on that one project IMO.

[Halbleib1]

she is like 16 or 17. generally she gets a pass from us. as i would hope that if my 17 year old daughter made statements that were based more on peer insight than fact, she would get one also.

Maybe she is only 16 or 17 but we have all been there. How many times at that age or younger did we tell adults something and were not taken serious or believed when what we were telling them was the absolute truth. It does not mean that she does not know what she is talking about. Who best to tell you what the schools are really like than a student.

My parents had no idea what the school day was like for me because they were not there. They only had their experience to go by. Which in most cases was much worst than what I went through. Back when they were in school teachers were allowed to hit kids. My mom went to a catholic school which was much much stricter than my school. That being said we want better for our kids and how are we going to get better for them if we do not listen to what is really going on. Also it is easy for adults at the school to put on an act for the parents and to make things look better than they really are.

[FireDancer]

I imagine that there are additional pressures in FL that are not necessarily the same throughout the country. This is part educated guess, I am not a teacher in FL nor do I live there but I do know a lot of teachers up here and did live for two years in FL.

First, the population in parts of FL is steadily growing. This may have slowed due to the real estate bubble but when I lived in Clearwater from 2003-04 I had a neighbor that was a middle school teacher. We worked out together and the conversation of the schools did come up. He mentioned on many occasions that the schools have capacity issues and just run out of room. They can't expand at the same rate as the population so classes are bigger then they should be and there are not adequate facilities to even hold let alone educate the children.

Second, but related to the first, is that so many kids enter the schools at non-standard ages. In most schools kids naturally enter in set grades. The way most schools around me are structured they are first, 7th, or 9th grade. Of course kids move but schools in the general area are paced about the same. Most schools in the area are pretty close in material. When you have kids moving in not only from surrounding areas but from all over the country they enter with vastly different backgrounds and at vastly different levels. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned learning up north in 9th grade what his sister (I think it was) learned in 12th in FL. It puts the schools in a bad situation. If they base the education on the kids that are entering from areas that have advanced curriculum there are a lot of kids that skip a lot of info. If they go with the less advanced there are kids doing everything all over again.*

I imaging in the Phoenix and Las Vegas areas there are similar problems.

Now, don't take me as an apologist for the schools. Just because they have these problems doesn't excuse poor education. It just means you have to work harder to deal with it. I just wanted to put some info out there that comes from someone without a dog in the hunt. I am not a teacher or student and I am years away from spawning any at the current rate so I have no reason to be defensive about either.

*I am speaking merely about speed of introduction when I talk about advanced curriculum and not the difficulty of it.

[dalt01]

double post

[dalt01]

she is like 16 or 17. generally she gets a pass from us. as i would hope that if my 17 year old daughter made statements that were based more on peer insight than fact, she would get one also.




Stupid question but i'm halve awake so.
Thats a good thing right? i was saying that we will defend you when we have to...........that is a good thing. i was also saying that some kids think their teachers are idiots when they are really not......sometimes we just think so.....and i understand that. and i also know that sometimes when they are grown some kids look back are realize that someone they hated may not have been so bad after all:teacher:

[lugnut33]

How about this idea?

Since the Obama administration wants to link teacher pay to student achievement, how about we also link parents tax returns to their kids educational achievements? You know, if your kid gets all F's , they you have to pay more in taxes, or get no refund/breaks at all.

Remember, students think their teachers are stupid, and teachers think most of their students are stupid. It's a two way street.

[dalt01]

How about this idea?

Since the Obama administration wants to link teacher pay to student achievement, how about we also link parents tax returns to their kids educational achievements? You know, if your kid gets all F's , they you have to pay more in taxes, or get no refund/breaks at all.

Remember, students think their teachers are stupid, and teachers think most of their students are stupid. It's a two way street. one thing i will give you...........your consistant.

[PeterPan09]

I don't have kids in the Florida education system, but I have cousins that do-so I asked them their opinions on this.

I was told that the best thing about the Florida system is the ability for HS students to earn college credits and graduate earlier. Two of my cousin's children have taken advantage of this so far and graduated early. Other states may have this and I agree that it's great.

However, there are negative things too. The FCAT is the biggest complaint-and the resulting "teaching to the test". And as been mentioned before, there can be a vast difference between districts. One of my cousins homeschooled for several years until they were able to move to a better quality district. The other thing that they complained about was the HUGE amount of time that kids spend OUT of school. There are half days on Wednesdays and a whole week off at Thanksgiving, along with assorted teacher training days that the kids are off.

This other issue garnered mixed reviews. In Florida you can opt your child out of PE. Now, for parents with kids on sports teams, this is great. Your kid is already going to swim team practice or soccer practice 5 days a week, they really could use that period in school for a study hall to get HW done or to take an art/music class. The negative is that a lot of kids who really should be in PE are getting excused from it.

So, if you're thinking of moving down here and you have kids-there's a lot to think about.

[two-foxes]

Wow! Great discussion! I was plainly shocked that this guy was willing to move across the country, leaving a pretty good paying job and take a bit of a paycut mainly for the sake of his kids education. It either says a lot for his priorities on life or a lot about FL schools....
or both!

[4HOLIDAYS]

Yes, I think they are that bad. I had my kids when younger in private school, now home schooled(middle school age). I lived a block from the beach , now eight miles. Both schools were bad and we were in middle to high end areas. The drugs, violence , bad teachers...I get all the stories from the parents of my kids friends and other teammates parents (plays sports for the middle school) . I only let him play sports for thwe school because their is constant supervision and we know the families on the teams.
Friends have moved to 2 other states and they Love theirschools, the kids do as well. The parents feel they get a better education by far.
Anyone with kids that wants to move to FLA needs to look real hard at the public and private cost of schools here.

[lugnut33]

one thing i will give you...........your consistant.

Is that a compliment? :confused3

[dalt01]

How about this idea?

Since the Obama administration wants to link teacher pay to student achievement, how about we also link parents tax returns to their kids educational achievements? You know, if your kid gets all F's , they you have to pay more in taxes, or get no refund/breaks at all.

Remember, students think their teachers are stupid, and teachers think most of their students are stupid. It's a two way street.

one thing i will give you...........your consistant.

Is that a compliment? :confused3 had to think about that for a minute. your posts are sometimes a little controversial...sometimes a bit inflammatory........but they are never wishy washy........so i guess it was.

[lugnut33]

had to think about that for a minute. your posts are sometimes a little controversial...sometimes a bit inflammatory........but they are never wishy washy........so i guess it was.

OK, I'll take that as a good thing. Thanks:thumbsup2

Now, can we agree to blame this whole education mess on Kevin?:laughing:

[howlongtillsummer?]

What is in the water over there tonight? -- This one of the funniest boards ever! :laughing: I really am enjoying myself.

[Worfiedoodles]

My SIL and BIL moved from NH to FL in 2006 for a variety of reasons, one was so their daughters would have a greatly reduced cost for college after graduating from a FL public school.

Here's how this is working for them -- My oldest niece just refused to do the paperwork necessary for the reduced tuition, graduated and works full-time in a daycare. She is finally realizing she threw away a golden opportunity (along with all the graduation money she received), and is now trying to pay for college on her own. My next niece is a senior this year. She gets straight As -- but she hasn't been able to pass the English part of the F-CAT, so she still may not graduate. No graduation, no reduced tuition. My youngest niece had a ton of tutoring and major family stress -- they were terrified she would fail the F-CAT for her grade (I think it was 2nd or 3rd?), but luckily she did pass. If she hadn't she would have been held back, even though she makes As and Bs -- not even a C in any class.

All three girls would tell you they came into FL well ahead of where their classes were, and were bored -- their inability to pass the test would seem to bely that, but it's what they say.

They live in Wesley Chapel, which would seem to have a decent school system (although I truly don't know). They live in a gated community, a suburb of Tampa, so it's certainly not because student population is disadvantaged...

Maria :upsidedow

[JennMouse32]

We had a guy who has a pretty good job in the Orlando area (Sanford) fly out here to Colorado to interview at my agency. A Florida native, he said he is very very ready to leave Florida due to the hurricanes, the humidity and mainly for the horrible school system. I figured it would be a bit unprofessional for me to grill him on exactly how bad the schools are (I usually tell DH we should move before our monkeys get into school....), but I read here all the time of folks wanting to get IN to Florida, and here is this guy begging to get out....are the schools really that bad?

I have a cousin who owns a rental home in Celebration who wanted to move back to that house after she had her baby because the schools in that area were supposed to be great....it was a few years ago though and they are still living in Cleveland, so maybe they have gone down hill recently?yes.. yes they are... proabaly if you grow up there you dont realize.. but i grew up in upstate NY, and when i moved to florida i was in.. 6th grade and 7th... i would come home crying everyday cuz they were teaching things i learned in 3rd and 4th grades.. so finally my mom took me out of school and home schooled me till we moved to Indiana

[LilGMom]

Boy has this thread been an eye-opener.

[*NikkiBell*]

I've been reading this thread over the past few days, but steered clear of posting because I had a feeling it could get heated and I did not want to get mixed in with the fire. Welll....now I can't resist. :rotfl2::surfweb:

Little additional insight. I work for a school in Michigan. People in that go here, work here, etc complain about how bad it is...etc etc. While outside the area our school had a gleaming reputation. Find the best school district in the country and you will find hundreds of people to complain about that same district. You get out of your childrens eduction what you put into it. If you expect to drop your kids off at the door and pick them up at 3 all "learn'ed" up, they the school will fail you miserably. If you get involved and get to know the people and become and active part of your child's eduction then you will have a great experience. I always tell my kids, You won't like all your teachers, some will be good and others bad. Guess what, the same goes for your employers.

I honestly cannot agree with Don more. I was actually going to post this, but he beat me to it. I have been saying this for years, much more so over the past few. Parents need to remain active participants in their children's education. This includes supporting them in a variety of ways including studying, reading, writing, and talking together. It makes a huge impact on the child's learning and educational career.

Yes, they are absolutely awful.
The people in charge are idiots
Most of the teachers can't teach.
Most of the teachers don't give a crap.
Did i mention the people in charge of the schools are idiots?:mad:

Sierra, Kevin brought up the point that you are a high school student as a result of your post. I do not feel he was doing this in a malicious way. Instead, he was explaining the all too powerful idea of perception. The way you look at the Florida school system right now is based on your age and maturity level. Five or even ten years from now, you might feel drastically different. I remember I wrote a scathing article to the school paper while I was in high school about something going on. I cringe every time I think about that article now because my perception was so skewed by hormones, immaturity, and who knows what else. :rotfl:

The year I graduated high school if we did not complete a senior project we would not have been allowed to graduate. It had nothing to do with grades it all came down to that one last project. Pretty stupid to have so much ride on that one project IMO.

The completion of a culminating project is becoming a big trend in American education today. More and more you will see college, high school, and middle school students needing to complete a major project to pass a course or grade level. I have mixed feelings on this idea, but wanted to let you know that it is not something that is too far fetched. Instead, it is quickly becoming the norm.

Maybe she is only 16 or 17 but we have all been there. How many times at that age or younger did we tell adults something and were not taken serious or believed when what we were telling them was the absolute truth. It does not mean that she does not know what she is talking about. Who best to tell you what the schools are really like than a student.
My parents had no idea what the school day was like for me because they were not there. They only had their experience to go by. Which in most cases was much worst than what I went through. Back when they were in school teachers were allowed to hit kids. My mom went to a catholic school which was much much stricter than my school. That being said we want better for our kids and how are we going to get better for them if we do not listen to what is really going on. Also it is easy for adults at the school to put on an act for the parents and to make things look better than they really are.

I disagree with this. While a child's opinion has some value, they are not the best individuals to explain "what a school is really like." This should be done by professional educators, i.e. the ones who have the background in the field and work in them every day. As mentioned above, children's perceptions can be very skewed. You could have an amazing teacher hated by certain students because she works them hard while another teacher is absolutely adored because he allows his kids to socialize all period.

Similarly, while I agree that things can be made to appear better than they really are, it is not something that is easy to do. I can say this from over seven years of experience in the field of education both in NJ and MD. There have been times when I'd be forced by an administrator to present things in a much different light than the true one. Trust me, it is not something that is easy to do and I don't know if I'd agree that it is done regularly either.

How about this idea?

Since the Obama administration wants to link teacher pay to student achievement, how about we also link parents tax returns to their kids educational achievements? You know, if your kid gets all F's , they you have to pay more in taxes, or get no refund/breaks at all.

Remember, students think their teachers are stupid, and teachers think most of their students are stupid. It's a two way street.

I find this comment highly offensive and would like to know on what grounds you have made it. What facts do you have that allow you to say that ALL students feel that their teachers are stupid? I know this isn't the case in my classroom. Likewise, what facts are you basing the comment that ALL teachers think that their students are stupid? I certainly don't feel that way about my students. Generalizing a majority is a dangerous and hurtful thing to do in a discussion. You need to base your comments on facts, not assumptions or perhaps bad feelings you have left over from your educational experiences.

I don't have kids in the Florida education system, but I have cousins that do-so I asked them their opinions on this.

I was told that the best thing about the Florida system is the ability for HS students to earn college credits and graduate earlier. Two of my cousin's children have taken advantage of this so far and graduated early. Other states may have this and I agree that it's great.

However, there are negative things too. The FCAT is the biggest complaint-and the resulting "teaching to the test". And as been mentioned before, there can be a vast difference between districts. One of my cousins homeschooled for several years until they were able to move to a better quality district. The other thing that they complained about was the HUGE amount of time that kids spend OUT of school. There are half days on Wednesdays and a whole week off at Thanksgiving, along with assorted teacher training days that the kids are off.

This other issue garnered mixed reviews. In Florida you can opt your child out of PE. Now, for parents with kids on sports teams, this is great. Your kid is already going to swim team practice or soccer practice 5 days a week, they really could use that period in school for a study hall to get HW done or to take an art/music class. The negative is that a lot of kids who really should be in PE are getting excused from it.

So, if you're thinking of moving down here and you have kids-there's a lot to think about.

Most, if not all, states have a standardized test that they use in the grade levels. New Jersey has the NJ ASK, Florida has the FCAT, etc. It's a result of No Child Left Behind and years of unwise decisions made by the government. Unfortunately, it is not helping educating our children, but hurting them.

I have never taught in Florida, but may do so in the future. Yes, I have heard that their schools, for the most part, are poor. However, I strongly believe that there are also good schools in the state and a lot of education needs to be supported from the home in order for true success to exist.

[JennMouse32]

i have gone to florida schools and hated it!!they are much behind as compared to other state schools...

[717fan]

To find the best school systems across the country regardless of state, look at each town/city/county's average household income and % college graduates. You will find that best school systems in those that rank highest in both catagories. For example, in Massachusetts where I live, the towns of Dover, Sherborn, Weston, and Wellesley are generally considered as having the best public school systems.

[natashag76]

I apologize for not reading all the posts, but in Jacksonville, FL there 2 of the best public high schools in the country, Paxton and Stanton. They usually flip 1st place spots from year to year with Stuyvesant in NYC and New Trier in Illinois.
It depends on the city you're in and the luck of the draw with teachers just like anywhere.

[Halbleib1]

[QUOTE=*NikkiBell*;35491679]I've been reading this thread over the past few days, but steered clear of posting because I had a feeling it could get heated and I did not want to get mixed in with the fire. Welll....now I can't resist. :rotfl2::surfweb:







The completion of a culminating project is becoming a big trend in American education today. More and more you will see college, high school, and middle school students needing to complete a major project to pass a course or grade level. I have mixed feelings on this idea, but wanted to let you know that it is not something that is too far fetched. Instead, it is quickly becoming the norm.

Yeah I am aware it has become the trend. It was just getting started in Pennsylvania when I graduated. We were the first graduating class in PA to actually have to do one. Unlike today where they start this project in 9th or 10th grade or even earlier in some cases I am sure we did ours in 11th grade and had to have it completed before graduation. We got off easy compared to kids today since we were the trial run we only had to write a report and present it to our class. As well as meet with our advisor about our topic and progress with it. Today I believe they also have to do some sort of community service along with there big project. Not saying this is a bad thing just a lot rides on that one project when compared to the rest of your schooling.



I disagree with this. While a child's opinion has some value, they are not the best individuals to explain "what a school is really like." This should be done by professional educators, i.e. the ones who have the background in the field and work in them every day. As mentioned above, children's perceptions can be very skewed. You could have an amazing teacher hated by certain students because she works them hard while another teacher is absolutely adored because he allows his kids to socialize all period.



I agree with this to an extent. Teachers do play favorites as well though. Anyone that denys this happens is a liar. Just because one student loves that teacher and another hates them does not mean that one student is wrong. It just means that they have both had different experiences with that teacher. Even if they are in the same class. I saw that many times throughout my school career. I do not agree that educators are the ones that are necessarily the best at explaining what a school is really like either. They are going to skew it to make themselves look in the best light to protect themselves and their jobs. Perhaps the correct answer to this would be a combination of students teachers and school administration. Just because you are a teacher does not mean that you know what goes on in every class. Even if a teacher does know that something wrong is going on in a classroom it does not mean that the teacher is going to do anything about it. That teacher I described in an earlier post that banned tape recorders from class was friends with much of the administration and many of the teachers in the school and the administration members/teachers knew what went on in his classroom but they chose to ignore it and do nothing about it. So in that situation how is a professional the best person to perceive what that class is really like? They were going to stick up for their fellow teacher no matter what. Matter of fact the school board and principal did when they allowed him to continue teaching after many complaints from students and parents. This was not something that happened on rare occassion either this teacher was always that way- my brothers and sisters who are anywheres from 11 years to 5 years older than me had this same experience with this teacher. After I graduated a few years later my niece had him and nothing had changed.

Many kids loved that class and you know why: because they were the bullys in school that got pleasure from making others feel bad.


Also what criteria are you using to judge if a teacher is amazing or not? Are you looking at just there teaching skills and what the kids are learning or are you looking at how they interact with their students as well. The teacher described above taught Civics well but he mistreated many students. In most cases the school is only looking at how well a child does on a test and not more in debth at what is going on in the classroom. Also a teacher is always aware when they are being evaluated so maybe what is really needed are cameras in the classroom to see what goes on when other adults are not around.

Similarly, while I agree that things can be made to appear better than they really are, it is not something that is easy to do. I can say this from over seven years of experience in the field of education both in NJ and MD. There have been times when I'd be forced by an administrator to present things in a much different light than the true one. Trust me, it is not something that is easy to do and I don't know if I'd agree that it is done regularly either.

Maybe that is the case in a big city school but in a small community school like I went to it is very easy. Because many of the school board members/administration/and teachers are friends with each other and in many cases grew up together.

I find this comment highly offensive and would like to know on what grounds you have made it. What facts do you have that allow you to say that ALL students feel that their teachers are stupid? I know this isn't the case in my classroom. Likewise, what facts are you basing the comment that ALL teachers think that their students are stupid? I certainly don't feel that way about my students. Generalizing a majority is a dangerous and hurtful thing to do in a discussion. You need to base your comments on facts, not assumptions or perhaps bad feelings you have left over from your educational experiences.

I agree with Nikki here I think that most teachers want their students to succeed but like anything there are some bad apples out there. Although I do agree that in some areas the bad outweight the good. As far as students thinking that all teachers are stupid-during the teen years aren't all adults stupid to kids. LOL

[kafitty]

i'm surprised at how hard the FCAT seems to be to pass. We have the MCAS here in Massachusetts, and while people certainly gripe about having to pass it in order to graduate, i have not heard of students being able to achieve A's and B's and not being able to pass it - it's generally those you would expect to be having trouble that are having the troubles.

then again, this is not something i've looked into. i went to Catholic HS and was excused from taking the MCAS in 10th grade - they had us focused on the PSAT's instead.

[lugnut33]

Nikki Belle
I find this comment highly offensive and would like to know on what grounds you have made it. What facts do you have that allow you to say that ALL students feel that their teachers are stupid? I know this isn't the case in my classroom. Likewise, what facts are you basing the comment that ALL teachers think that their students are stupid? I certainly don't feel that way about my students. Generalizing a majority is a dangerous and hurtful thing to do in a discussion. You need to base your comments on facts, not assumptions or perhaps bad feelings you have left over from your educational experiences.





Halbleib
I agree with Nikki here I think that most teachers want their students to succeed but like anything there are some bad apples out there. Although I do agree that in some areas the bad outweight the good. As far as students thinking that all teachers are stupid-during the teen years aren't all adults stupid to kids. LOL


As pointed out in the second quoted post teens think adults are stupid. It's natural for them to think that way. I also thought that was the point I was trying to get across, the whole kid versus adult situation.

You ever go into the teachers breakroom and listen to them talk about students?

BTW, my wife is a teacher and I'm on the board. Were my comments intended to be a wide brush generalization? Yup, but they also need to be taken with a grain of salt. Sorry you were highly offended.

[DisneyKevin]

Folks....this thread has veered of course a bit and is walking a very thin line.

Let's pull this back to the topic at hand.

Thanks

[lovethattink]

We live in Polk County. I found understanding the school system to be very confusing when we moved here. There are zoned schools, then there are magnet schools, and there are charter schools, private schools and umbrella schools. Certainly a lot of choices so you are not stuck with just one option.

There has been a recent trend, due to the 10% unemployment here, for people to be opting for public school instead of private school. This has placed an unexpected burden on the public school system. One which they are trying to figure out.

[IWISHFORDISNEY]

My son could have gone to Ralph Williams but we still picked Ascension and paid for it! I would have done Suntree but we didn't live close enough. Ralph Williams kind of scared me despite its better rankings, but that might just be my own issue after seeing the school.


Ralph Williams just dropped out of the top 10% in the county because they bused from Cocoa. Go figure. Luckily mine is still the surrounding neighborhoods so my son wont be bused. I her Ascension was really good. I hope that is going well. Suntree is awesome!! We boarder Quest and Manatee but Manatee is our feeder pattern and I am happy with that.

[vicki_c]

Ralph Williams just dropped out of the top 10% in the county because they bused from Cocoa. Go figure. Luckily mine is still the surrounding neighborhoods so my son wont be bused. I her Ascension was really good. I hope that is going well. Suntree is awesome!! We boarder Quest and Manatee but Manatee is our feeder pattern and I am happy with that.

Ascension was good (and we're not Catholic so didn't choose for that reason at all) and I would still have my kids there I'm sure if we still lived in Melbourne.

Yes, Ralph Williams just sort of gave me a not so good feeling when we visited.

[kbelle8995]

This is an interesting discussion. I grew up in Florida so I've had a few experences both good and bad. I went to a private school and then was switched to a public school which was a real eye opener. My high school was physically falling apart. I had good tough teachers and teachers who didn't care. It realy is mixed bag with the school system here in Florida. The private school wasn't much better than the public school

You can still find teachers who care and want the students to do well. The community college system is great offering courses to full time students and members of the community just looking to learn the latest software such as excel. The school system is better in North Florida.

[Beauty908]

Hey! I'm planning on being a teacher, so this discussion has been really interesting to read and follow.

I'm from IL and we have e-reportcards for every school in the state that you can compare. I'm sure Florida (along with the other states) have something similar. I would remind you to consider how much money the school has to work with because higher economic status does make a difference on the students and school districts.

[kathrna]

I can see your point a little there. I went to school in Michigan and my sister in Florida. She was learning things her senior year I had done my freshman year. I think they could accelerate the curriculum a bit, but we both went to college and picked up from there.

I wasn't reference any one post, so I hope you didn't think I was saying anyone wasn't involved with their kids education.

My main point is, any school will have people that love it and hate it. Any child will be successful not because of what he learned in school, but what he learned at home. Too many parents expect the schools to do it all and that is too much to ask. Its unfortunate, but it seems the majority have taken that route and teachers are over tasked trying to work with the kids that have no home support and the kids that work hard and excel don't' get pushed in their education.

A-greed! Parents HAVE to take an active roll in their child's education. If you are unhappy at what you are seeing come home, set up a conference. Don't just go in and say that you're unhappy, have a plan; what you'd LIKE to see your child be doing. You are as much part of the solution as the teacher and student are.

It depends on the area. Orlando area has some really good schools and good teachers and it has some really BAD administration & policies.


One word (or is it two??) F-Cat
The F-CAT is all important in Florida; it rules EVERYTHING to do with education.

My kids go/went to private schools. This way they learn more than what is taught for the F-Cat.
At least in private school if there is a teacher absent, they get a sub. Unlike my friends kids who go to a gym and the kids sit there all day, because there is no money to hire a sub.
I also agree with this statement. When we were getting ready to move to South Florida, I couldn't find a school that I felt comfortable with. I toured them. Once while waiting for our tour, my son was looking at a wall board with notices on it and got yelled at to get back to class. "Um, no thanks, we'll pass on the tour." YIKES!!
I feel that the schools are required to teach too much to the F-Cat. The charter school around the corner no longer has recess because they needed to teach to the test. Shouldn't the test be WHAT they are all teaching about not teaching TO??!!
I've seen what a fourth grade gifted child's work looks like. I was NOT impressed. Grammatical errors, misspellings, she had no idea how to write in cursive (not that that is important, I mean, when do we really use it??!!). I just wasn't impressed at her writing skills at all.
But I digress...

It may have changed but the last report I read on the Florida school system was that it ranked 49th in the nation. There was only one state that ranked lower than Florida.

I have no idea what the criteria was or how the system was set-up for the ranking - but that's a pretty scary number.

With that said there are also some school districts within the state that are very highly sought after - I can only assume it's because they have a better ranking of some some sort.

We talk about these on the show from time-to-time - Dr. Phillips area and Celebration area schools seems to be the ones people want to send their children to.

I don't know what external influences make one school better or worse than another. I assume it has to do with funds but all over this state I see signs that say XX Billion of Dollars has gone to schools so far from the Lottery.

Makes you wonder what exactly is going on.......
I saw that "49" statistic when we were getting ready to move. Not at all impressive.
I KNOW that there are good schools there, but we have friends that are paying through the nose (20K a year for MIDDLE SCHOOL!) just so that their son can be in one of the three best schools in Miami-Dade County. This will ensure placement in one of the top high schools. Um, 20K for middle school is just beyond CRAZY!! But they truly feel that strongly about it.

Now that we are getting ready to move back to Northwest Florida, I am finding that their schools look outstanding! But it also has to "feel" good. You HAVE to tour, you HAVE to do your homework, like Liz (IWISHFORDISNEY) did and take your kids with you when you go meet with the school. In our case, my kids' opinions matter greatly. They don't rule the roost, but their "feelings" about the school, the tour and the sincerity of the teachers they meet is valued.

The Florida teachers are like any other in the country, overworked and underpaid. But I've not seen any group of teachers treated more poorly than the Florida teachers. We've lived up and down the east coast b/c of the military and have seen our share of school systems. These teachers are truly defeated.

In the end, while in South Florida, I chose to homeschool my children. I became the teacher and I was responsible for their education. I feel very good about their three year education under my tenure. Now in NC, they are both in Parochial school and two years ahead of their grade level (currently 2nd and 7th). I am very proud of that.

[6mouskateers]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]
Now that we are getting ready to move back to Northwest Florida, I am finding that their schools look outstanding! But it also has to "feel" good. You HAVE to tour, you HAVE to do your homework, like Liz (IWISHFORDISNEY) did and take your kids with you when you go meet with the school. In our case, my kids' opinions matter greatly. They don't rule the roost, but their "feelings" about the school, the tour and the sincerity of the teachers they meet is valued.



Kathy,

I'd be curious to hear which school system you are looking at. We have had kids in the Okaloosa County system for the past 12 years and we are quite pleased. We are one of the best if not the best, in the state. The schools were one of the biggest reasons we stayed here when DH retired from the AF.

And yes, some schools, in FL are just AWFUL like anywhere else, and don't get me started on the FCAT. But all in all, up here in the panhandle our kids do well on SAT, ACT etc and generally get into the colleges of their choice.

I am firm believer that if the parents demand more from the school systems and from their kids, they will get results. I think our successful public schools illustrate that.

[kathrna]

Kathy,

I'd be curious to hear which school system you are looking at. We have had kids in the Okaloosa County system for the past 12 years and we are quite pleased. We are one of the best if not the best, in the state. The schools were one of the biggest reasons we stayed here when DH retired from the AF.

And yes, some schools, in FL are just AWFUL like anywhere else, and don't get me started on the FCAT. But all in all, up here in the panhandle our kids do well on SAT, ACT etc and generally get into the colleges of their choice.

I am firm believer that if the parents demand more from the school systems and from their kids, they will get results. I think our successful public schools illustrate that.

We are looking at schools in the Niceville area. If you have suggestions, I am more than happy to hear them!!

[6mouskateers]

We have had kids in Bluewater Elemetary, Ruckel Middle and NHS --all this year I might add!! But it's not the first time we have done the 3- school-shuffle.

All 4 kids have gone to Bluewater, 3 to Ruckel (one more--the last of the bunch-- will go next year) and have son #2 graduating from NHS this year. NHS has some very innovative programs and both boys have been in Aviation Choice. Check them out at the Okaloosa school website. Can't speak to the other Choice Programs, but i'll wager they are on par with Aviation. They partner with Embry-Riddle and get college credits for some good classes--our boys actually did FAA Ground School in their senior year. GREAT sports if your kids are into that, GREAT bands, of course academics (most important), ROTC, etc.

Bluewater has an excellent track of gifted program called Team Quest. 3 of our 4 did this. Our soon to be graduate this year started that program in 5th grade (the year it began) and followed the path, so to speak, into middle and high school-has mostly AP classes (and scored well) has been acceptef to UFl (not his first choice) and is waiting to hear from USAFA and Princeton.

We were stationed here back in late 80"S early 90's before we had kids in school but we knew we'd probably come back here (Spec Ops--not many places to go) and came back to Niceville, and to Bluewater's area in particular for the schools. Plew Elem is excellent also, as is Destin Middle. We have a lot of good choices here.

I fear I have really highjacked this thread!! My appologies to the OP!!!!

PM me if I can answer anything else for you! A few houses for sale in our neighborhood...it's getting to be PCS season soon.

[Jitzy]

Does a state that spends more money per student get a better ranking? Remember that just because a state throws a lot of money at a problem, doesn't make the problem go away! Money can't solve the educational problems of students whose parents don't care to place a high value on education.

We live in St. Johns County in FL. My son's high school is ranked in the top 100 in the country. But, the funny thing is, it is a "B" school because according to NCLB the students with learning disabilities didn't show appropriate gains on their test scores.

Before we moved here, we lived in Va. Beach, VA. Again, great schools but they also had Standards of Learning, SOLs. What state doesn't require kids to pass a test to graduate? Pretty typical.