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antici_PATION
02-10-2010, 03:34 PM
I am getting ready to leave for a Western and my mom is saying that people she knows who have been to Mexico before told her to take things to give to the Mexican children that stand around and beg.

Has anyone experienced this before? Is this just on the mainland or is it in Cozumel as well?

Any help would be great!

Lisa_C
02-10-2010, 03:43 PM
I am getting ready to leave for a Western and my mom is saying that people she knows who have been to Mexico before told her to take things to give to the Mexican children that stand around and beg.

Has anyone experienced this before? Is this just on the mainland or is it in Cozumel as well?

Any help would be great!

I wouldn't personally wouldn't sanction this, it just encourages them. To be honest, we were told that their families make them do this, and it made me rather uncomfortable having hands shoved in front of me every five seconds. Our guide said to ignore them and move on. I had a bad case where a man pushed his child under my feet and told me it was my responsibility to feed her as I was coming to visit his country :scared1:. I cried on the way home as the whole experience upset me :sad2: this was just outside where the ship docked too (albeit not a Disney ship).

sayhello
02-10-2010, 04:06 PM
I am getting ready to leave for a Western and my mom is saying that people she knows who have been to Mexico before told her to take things to give to the Mexican children that stand around and beg.

Has anyone experienced this before? Is this just on the mainland or is it in Cozumel as well?

Any help would be great!I didn't experience any begging in Cozumel.

Sayhello

justmestace
02-10-2010, 04:11 PM
We've never experienced it in Cozumel. We did encounter it a lot on other islands, especially St Lucia.
I've read in other travel magazines & sites to NOT give them anything. Like the previous poster stated, a lot of times their parents send them out there to do it, and also a lot of times they skip school when the cruise ships come in, and as stated, it just encourages them.

ShootingStarMom2
02-10-2010, 04:11 PM
I didn't see begging either time. I guess I would react the same there as I do here and just keep walking. If you show interest it's going to lead to more interaction.

Tneah
02-10-2010, 04:33 PM
I didn't seeing any begging in Cozumel. I was there just a few months ago.

I also would not encourage the behavior by giving out something.

kcashner
02-10-2010, 04:38 PM
Early on, DCL insisted that the beggars be kept away from the port area as a condition for their ships docking there. They have never returned, and there is a significant police presence in the port area.

If you leave the tourist areas, you will see beggars. DO NOT give them anything, and protect your personal property as they are well trained pick pockets. If you give anything to one, you will be mobbed. Do not encourage them. Do not comment on their pretty baby or anything else--while one distracts you, another may be robbing you!

You are contributing to the local economy with your port taxes at the very least, as well as with any shopping and excursions you may do. YOU are not responsible for creating or correcting the poverty at any vacation spot.

TheWog
02-10-2010, 05:02 PM
I agree with the others. Do not specifically bring anything to give them. If you do witness the begging, they are mostly just looking for money.

Anj
02-10-2010, 07:35 PM
I never experienced this on previous trips to Cozumel/PlayaDelCarmen or any of the islands we visited on our Eastern itinerary DCL trip.

kcashner
02-10-2010, 07:47 PM
I never experienced this on previous trips to Cozumel/PlayaDelCarmen or any of the islands we visited on our Eastern itinerary DCL trip.

Never saw it on an Eastern.....only in Mexico on Western and Panama crossing.

tink_n_pooh
02-10-2010, 08:34 PM
We didn't see any beggers in Cozumel but DH saw them when he was in Cancun. Some of the kids would even walk right up to you and tie a bracelet onto your wrist, then if you didn't pay them for the bracelet they would scream for the cops and tell them you were stealing from them :confused3

kcashner
02-10-2010, 09:06 PM
We didn't see any beggers in Cozumel but DH saw them when he was in Cancun. Some of the kids would even walk right up to you and tie a bracelet onto your wrist, then if you didn't pay them for the bracelet they would scream for the cops and tell them you were stealing from them :confused3

Same in Jamaica---don't carry any sort of bag or they'll stuff junk in your bag and then scream for cops that you were stealing it. Not really a problem in tourist areas where DCL normally goes. Just use reasonable caution and don't do anything to engage them!

brittanyherndon
02-10-2010, 09:29 PM
Theire behavior is crazy. Do the police actually belive the kids that say you are stealing from them.

Ebunny
02-10-2010, 10:36 PM
There's begging all over, at home and abroad.. I always get stopped outside the gas station when I stop at home, or on the corners of roads people come up to the cars. There's really no difference, so treat them the way you'd treat any beggar/pan handler.

antici_PATION
02-11-2010, 12:03 AM
Thanks guys!

PizzieDuster
02-11-2010, 12:25 AM
Oh gosh, once you engage any contact with one - they all hover like seagulls at the beach. I've have the kids come up and put silver in my face or a sarong in my face blocking my view. Even if there are ropes blocking off a certain beach area they will stand right in front of the water trying to get your attention...very distracting and I hated it! :mad:

My daughter has long hair and that was a nightmare! I ignore, pull my visor down, with my sunglasses on and my IPOD in my ears. My kids do the same and my husband has a really hard *** "don't even think about it" look - normally :rotfl2::rotfl: That's the only time his hard *** look doesn't bother me at all :woohoo::thumbsup2

Matter of fact, that's the only time I'm glad he can be an A**ho....you know :lmao: hee hee :laughing::laughing:

Kay1
02-11-2010, 05:59 AM
There's begging all over, at home and abroad.. I always get stopped outside the gas station when I stop at home, or on the corners of roads people come up to the cars. There's really no difference, so treat them the way you'd treat any beggar/pan handler.

We have a lot of panhandlers where we live, too. And we ran into a few when we visited a Wal-Mart near Disney. We actually have a family member who begs other family members for various things and I agree with the idea that you only encourage more begging when you give in.

kadillon
02-11-2010, 07:12 AM
I am getting ready to leave for a Western and my mom is saying that people she knows who have been to Mexico before told her to take things to give to the Mexican children that stand around and beg.

Has anyone experienced this before? Is this just on the mainland or is it in Cozumel as well?

Any help would be great!

Anticipation, if you are going on the Feb 20 Western, you should come join our Dismeet group. It's fun to get to know some other cruisers before you get aboard.

Pooh_Friend#1
02-11-2010, 09:47 AM
I have been to Cozumel 3 times and Playa del Carmen once and have never experienced the kids begging there although I hear they can be very persistant and brutal. Where we did experience it was in Puerta Vallerta and Mazatlan but it wasn't too bad if just kept walking and ignore them.

Horace Horsecollar
02-11-2010, 10:25 AM
I agree with the advice not to give money to beggars, whether they're children or adults, and whether you're at home or abroad.

There are many excellent aid organizations that help to provide food, education, clothing, medical care, and housing to impoverished children and their families in the United States and around the world. Such organizations know where the real needs are. They deliver their services with the help of volunteers and professionals (who typically work for a fraction of what they could earn with their education level and skills).

I'm especially impressed with organizations that help people become self-sufficient.

If you want to help people, you're much better donating to such organizations. When you donate, you can often identify how you and/or where you want your money used.

sdoner
02-11-2010, 11:26 AM
Have not had problems on cruise. Only problems when crossing border from Texas, Arizona, or California.

Tarabra
02-11-2010, 11:41 AM
Nope...never had any problems w/ beggars in Cozumel or Grand Cayman. I always wear cutoff jean shorts in the ports and joke that the people think I don't have any money. Even the shop keepers leave me alone w/ my fringy cutoffs. :thumbsup2:thumbsup2

Rogillio
02-11-2010, 12:59 PM
I agree with the advice not to give money to beggars, whether they're children or adults, and whether you're at home or abroad.

There are many excellent aid organizations that help to provide food, education, clothing, medical care, and housing to impoverished children and their families in the United States and around the world. Such organizations know where the real needs are. They deliver their services with the help of volunteers and professionals (who typically work for a fraction of what they could earn with their education level and skills).

I'm especially impressed with organizations that help people become self-sufficient.

If you want to help people, you're much better donating to such organizations. When you donate, you can often identify how you and/or where you want your money used.


I respectfully totally disagree! I give to beggers at home and abroad. I give to children, adults, homeless people, bag ladies, drunks and drug addicts. I also give to various organizations you mention too...becuase they meet a diffent need at a different level.

The comparrison of beggers to sea gulls just breaks my heart! Good Lord. They are people and most are undernurished and live in complete poverty. They see the tourist that come through as "the rich/priveldged ones" and you are! You may not think of yourself as rich but let me tell you, if you spend thouands of dollars on a vaction you are rich by their standards!

Never pass a begger in the streets - at home or abroad - and presume to know his story or his "need"! People see the drug addict on the corner and won't give him a few dollars because "he's just gonna buy drugs or booze". So what! Maybe that is what he needs right then to make it thru the day. You don't know his story or what has happened in his life. You don't know what sort of abuse and hardship and pain he has suffered in his life! Maybe a bottle of wine is the only thing that dulls the emotional and physical pain enough to keep him from taking his own life.

Keep a handful of coins and small bills try to put yourself in their positions. You came to their country to experience their culture...why would you want to deny they live in poverty? So what if their parents send them out?! Does that mean that they are not needy? Make a differance in someone's life. You ARE rich and can afford to give into their lives. Give them a few dollars and watch their faces light up!

~Mike

TheWog
02-11-2010, 02:04 PM
So, you are ok with subsidizing someone's drug addiction?

Rogillio
02-11-2010, 02:21 PM
So, you are ok with subsidizing someone's drug addiction?

Well, let's just kill 'em! Becuase maybe if they don't get that next hit of herione, they might just die from the DTs! Unless you've been addicted to drugs, how can you possibly know what they are going thru? If they don't get a few dollars from you, maybe they will just have to sell their body into sexual perversion to 'earn' the money for their next hit! But that's ok becuase now you can go home and feel good that you did you part to 'ween that addict' from their addiciton! If it were your daughter out on the street, would you rather some stranger give her some money or would you rather she got it from her pimp or some perverted trick? What if it was your brother who witnessed his best friend get his head blown off in Iraq and now can't seem to find the will to go on? "Tough love" is often an excuse to cover ones lask of compassion and/or stinginess.

A phrase from this thread that was used several times just keeps running through my head: "....don't give them anything, it just encourages them!!"

OMG! We certainly don't want to encourage these beggars! The last thing they need is encouragement! We should give them stern/dirty looks, avert our eyes, act like we don't see them and do our best to discourage them! How dare they interrupt our tour of their poverty ridden community by asking for money from us!! Maybe if we kicked them as we passed by they would stop coming out to hound us! They need to know that Americans are not push-overs! We earned our prosperity and we don't just give it to lazy, shiftless beggars who won't work for a living!

Sorry for the harsh sarcasm but I'm embarrassed for America at the snobbish elitism indicated in this thread.

~Mike

orlandothebeagle
02-11-2010, 02:54 PM
Early on, DCL insisted that the beggars be kept away from the port area as a condition for their ships docking there. They have never returned, and there is a significant police presence in the port area.

If you leave the tourist areas, you will see beggars. DO NOT give them anything, and protect your personal property as they are well trained pick pockets. If you give anything to one, you will be mobbed. Do not encourage them. Do not comment on their pretty baby or anything else--while one distracts you, another may be robbing you!

You are contributing to the local economy with your port taxes at the very least, as well as with any shopping and excursions you may do. YOU are not responsible for creating or correcting the poverty at any vacation spot.
:thumbsup2
I agree with the advice not to give money to beggars, whether they're children or adults, and whether you're at home or abroad.

There are many excellent aid organizations that help to provide food, education, clothing, medical care, and housing to impoverished children and their families in the United States and around the world. Such organizations know where the real needs are. They deliver their services with the help of volunteers and professionals (who typically work for a fraction of what they could earn with their education level and skills).

I'm especially impressed with organizations that help people become self-sufficient.

If you want to help people, you're much better donating to such organizations. When you donate, you can often identify how you and/or where you want your money used.

:thumbsup2

They are everywhere, even here in Edinburgh, they are a disgrace and at the moment the council aand bussines people are all arguing about how to get rid of them. They cant use children here as they would get taken from them but they have dogs and that does bug me.

ps, there are lots and lots of other choices rather than begging in the uk, I should know when I look ate the tax I pay every month.

Anjelica
02-11-2010, 03:43 PM
I agree with the advice not to give money to beggars, whether they're children or adults, and whether you're at home or abroad.

There are many excellent aid organizations that help to provide food, education, clothing, medical care, and housing to impoverished children and their families in the United States and around the world. Such organizations know where the real needs are. They deliver their services with the help of volunteers and professionals (who typically work for a fraction of what they could earn with their education level and skills).

I'm especially impressed with organizations that help people become self-sufficient.

If you want to help people, you're much better donating to such organizations. When you donate, you can often identify how you and/or where you want your money used.

:thumbsup2 ITA

Rogillio
02-11-2010, 03:56 PM
:thumbsup2


:thumbsup2

They are everywhere, even here in Edinburgh, they are a disgrace and at the moment the council aand bussines people are all arguing about how to get rid of them. They cant use children here as they would get taken from them but they have dogs and that does bug me.

ps, there are lots and lots of other choices rather than begging in the uk, I should know when I look ate the tax I pay every month.

Might be other options in Edinburgh but doubtful there any on the Yukatan pennisula. Most of us take our prosperity for granted....we have NEVER had to send our children to bed hungry because we had no money for food. The idea of sending our childen out into the streets to beg for money is so far from our world, it doesn't even cumpute...maybe because we have never had to cut a pair of shoes for our child out of an old truck tire....

I've been into the interior of Mexico and seen poverty that would blow your mind. I saw a 70 year old man on the side of the road with a bag picking of grains of rice that had blow off of trucks so he'd have something to eat. I've seen families that live in 'houses' made out of cardboard boxes!

If you want to keep your money, fine. But don't deceive yourself by thinking you are somehow doing them a favor by withholding your money. And don't fool yourself by thinking they live like that because they want to or are just lazy or they have "other option". Poverty is real and people really do go to bed hungry.

Toby
02-11-2010, 04:33 PM
You cannot believe the amount of begging in Tijuana - 3yo little girl trying to get my kids to buy gum from her. A baby!! Begging!! Atrocious... talk about child abuse. Necklaces shoved in my face, bracelets draped over my arm. Comments made to my teenage daughter...we couldn't wait to leave...I'd gladly give a Mexican charitable organization some money to help....

If it gets to be such a nuisance dealing with these people, then cruisers/tourists will stay away in droves.

Rogillio
02-11-2010, 04:34 PM
There are many excellent aid organizations that help to provide food, education, clothing, medical care, and housing to impoverished children and their families in the United States and around the world. Such organizations know where the real needs are. They deliver their services with the help of volunteers and professionals (who typically work for a fraction of what they could earn with their education level and skills).

I'm especially impressed with organizations that help people become self-sufficient.

If you want to help people, you're much better donating to such organizations. When you donate, you can often identify how you and/or where you want your money used.


One more comment on the "I gave at the office" excuse for not giving money to the poor, homeless, addicts, beggars and street children. It is my experience that the people who give the most generously to organized charities are also the first ones to reach in their pockets to give to a needy person in the street. When someone is begging for food money, telling them you gave money to the Salvation Army last Christmas doesn't fill their belly...but maybe you will sleep better.

Toby
02-11-2010, 04:44 PM
You cannot believe the amount of begging in Tijuana - 3yo little girl trying to get my kids to buy gum from her. A baby!! Begging!! Atrocious... talk about child abuse. Necklaces shoved in my face, bracelets draped over my arm. Comments made to my teenage daughter...we couldn't wait to leave...I'd gladly give a Mexican charitable organization some money to help....

If it gets to be such a nuisance dealing with these people, then cruisers/tourists will stay away in droves.

Rogillio
02-11-2010, 05:37 PM
You cannot believe the amount of begging in Tijuana - 3yo little girl trying to get my kids to buy gum from her. A baby!! Begging!! Atrocious... talk about child abuse. Necklaces shoved in my face, bracelets draped over my arm. Comments made to my teenage daughter...we couldn't wait to leave...I'd gladly give a Mexican charitable organization some money to help....

If it gets to be such a nuisance dealing with these people, then cruisers/tourists will stay away in droves.


I've seen the gum sales thing by little children in Mexico and I've seen it in China....I usually give some coins and then just say 'no thanks' when they tried to give me the gum. The look on their faces for "making a sale" (and getting to keep the gum!) is priceless! They are not asking much...maybe a nickle or dime for those gum things!

Child abuse? How can you make this call? Maybe that is the only way the family can make any coin so they have money to buy food! People do what they have to do to survive.

I agree that people who find beggars to be a "nuisance" should stay away from impoverished countries/cities.

Anjelica
02-11-2010, 05:39 PM
One more comment on the "I gave at the office" excuse for not giving money to the poor, homeless, addicts, beggars and street children. It is my experience that the people who give the most generously to organized charities are also the first ones to reach in their pockets to give to a needy person in the street. When someone is begging for food money, telling them you gave money to the Salvation Army last Christmas doesn't fill their belly...but maybe you will sleep better.

I'm not sure where the chip on your shoulder is coming from ~ I don't understand the bit of hostility you seem to be laying down. I understand the frustration about poverty in general, etc. but you sure are giving alot of grief to folks for giving to organizations and NOT the "beggar" on the street and making alot of assumptions yourself.

:confused3

I can give you PLENTY of examples of folks here in St. Louis who HAVE tried to purchase food for those homeless/beggars to be yelled/degraded and even spit at by those beggars because they offered to purchase them a meal vs. out right giving money.

TinksDH
02-11-2010, 05:41 PM
I saw less begging in Cozumel and Grand Cayman than I've seen in my travels to Boston, Seattle, Philadelphia, Chicago, NYC, and here locally in the Kansas City area.

orlandothebeagle
02-11-2010, 06:07 PM
Might be other options in Edinburgh but doubtful there any on the Yukatan pennisula. Most of us take our prosperity for granted....we have NEVER had to send our children to bed hungry because we had no money for food. The idea of sending our childen out into the streets to beg for money is so far from our world, it doesn't even cumpute...maybe because we have never had to cut a pair of shoes for our child out of an old truck tire....

I've been into the interior of Mexico and seen poverty that would blow your mind. I saw a 70 year old man on the side of the road with a bag picking of grains of rice that had blow off of trucks so he'd have something to eat. I've seen families that live in 'houses' made out of cardboard boxes!

If you want to keep your money, fine. But don't deceive yourself by thinking you are somehow doing them a favor by withholding your money. And don't fool yourself by thinking they live like that because they want to or are just lazy or they have "other option". Poverty is real and people really do go to bed hungry.
I was not talking about the whatever penninsula, I know poverty is real, I know poeple go to bed hungry.I have a tv.
One more comment on the "I gave at the office" excuse for not giving money to the poor, homeless, addicts, beggars and street children. It is my experience that the people who give the most generously to organized charities are also the first ones to reach in their pockets to give to a needy person in the street. When someone is begging for food money, telling them you gave money to the Salvation Army last Christmas doesn't fill their belly...but maybe you will sleep better.

I am sorry, but I will say again, imho, I dont agree with giving to beggers, I may well be wrong, I cant be so sure of myself as you seem to be, I am sorry if I am wrong or offended you, but I am allowed an opinion.

Rogillio
02-11-2010, 06:20 PM
I'm not sure where the chip on your shoulder is coming from ~ I don't understand the bit of hostility you seem to be laying down. I understand the frustration about poverty in general, etc. but you sure are giving alot of grief to folks for giving to organizations and NOT the "beggar" on the street and making alot of assumptions yourself.

:confused3

I can give you PLENTY of examples of folks here in St. Louis who HAVE tried to purchase food for those homeless/beggars to be yelled/degraded and even spit at by those beggars because they offered to purchase them a meal vs. out right giving money.


No chip on my shoulder....are you trying to reconcile your guilt by attacking me? The argument that you don't need to give to beggars on the street becuase you give to organized charity is a crock. Period.

Try showing a little compassion for people and look for reasons to give and to help rather than looking for excuses to not give and not help! It's easy to find examples of people who abuse other people's good hearts and use that as an excuse for doing nothing.

You are right, I do make assumptions....I assume that most beggars really don't want to be beggars but they are doing what they need to do to survive. Maybe I'm wrong....but I'll err on the side of humanity.

So go ahead and attack me if you think that will assuage your guilt. I will live my life a giver and look for opportunities to give...and I will continue to encourage others to do likewise.

Rogillio
02-11-2010, 06:24 PM
I was not talking about the whatever penninsula, I know poverty is real, I know poeple go to bed hungry.I have a tv.


I am sorry, but I will say again, imho, I dont agree with giving to beggers, I may well be wrong, I cant be so sure of myself as you seem to be, I am sorry if I am wrong or offended you, but I am allowed an opinion.



I am sorry I sounded harsh. I am very passionate in my beliefs and sometimes my passion get the better of me and I unintionally hurt other people. That was not my intent and I'm sorry.

~Mike

elkesails
02-11-2010, 07:46 PM
I am sorry I sounded harsh. I am very passionate in my beliefs and sometimes my passion get the better of me and I unintionally hurt other people. That was not my intent and I'm sorry.

~Mike
I am one person who appreciated your comments and your passion. The thought that the same amount I might spend on my second (or third) evening cocktail could make the difference in a child's life for a week is discomforting. It is not something that is fun to think about especially when one is on vacation and really wants to escape the sense of responsibility that goes with our "regular lives". It is often easier to just not deal with it, turn ones head and hope it goes away...but we are choosing to visit areas where a few dollars that we would not miss can make a big difference for the person doing the "begging". The "beggar" knows it and we know it.

What to do...No one wants a situation where you have to pass a line of "begging" children on your way to take a swim and never have a peaceful moment of escape. There is a fear that this might happen if we all pass out dollars like candy on Halloween. If it does, no one visits and the revenue stops. Not a good outcome for sure. But to walk by a person, a child and ignore their reality doesn't feel right. We are visiting their country and we are wealthy by their standards. What must they think when we walk by and ignore them as if they did not exist?

How to be a tourist who contributes to the well being of the areas we visit ? Not an easy question to answer but worth some time and dialog...even or maybe especially if it gets passionate.

bavaria
02-11-2010, 08:10 PM
I am sorry I sounded harsh. I am very passionate in my beliefs and sometimes my passion get the better of me and I unintionally hurt other people. That was not my intent and I'm sorry.

~Mike

There is no easy answer to the question of how to give, but I understand your frustration on the subject. I love working in and travelling around India for example, but doing so also carries a very high burden of guilt for me. When I am there (or working or travelling in other parts of the world with significant poverty) I often cannot bear to read this website because I have stronger than usual feelings about some of the subjects, and it colours my responses here.

However one feels on the subject, and however one chooses to give money, we should remember that these people are humans who often find themselves in their situation simply due to the random nature of birth. Some of the terms used to describe them here and other places are not very kind or reflective of our good fortune of having born or being able to live where we do in the world.

Anjelica
02-11-2010, 08:19 PM
No chip on my shoulder....are you trying to reconcile your guilt by attacking me? The argument that you don't need to give to beggars on the street becuase you give to organized charity is a crock. Period.

Try showing a little compassion for people and look for reasons to give and to help rather than looking for excuses to not give and not help! It's easy to find examples of people who abuse other people's good hearts and use that as an excuse for doing nothing.

You are right, I do make assumptions....I assume that most beggars really don't want to be beggars but they are doing what they need to do to survive. Maybe I'm wrong....but I'll err on the side of humanity.

So go ahead and attack me if you think that will assuage your guilt. I will live my life a giver and look for opportunities to give...and I will continue to encourage others to do likewise.

I think you misconstrue my comments about a chip on your shoulder as a direct attack. But lets be honest here - you are coming off pretty harsh to folks who have chosen to give to organizations in lieu of directly giving to beggars. And I'm not entirely sure why you've chosen to come on here and do so.

Giving is giving and I certainly don't belittle folks based upon their choices of how or when they chose to give.

As far as the guilt comment - think whatever you like about me. Assume all you want about my beliefs, giving, etc. it truly makes no difference to me. At the end of the day its me and my maker that have to have that conversation.

clawmachine
02-11-2010, 08:28 PM
I'm glad this subject came up, actually, because I had not been thinking about it and now I can prepare my kids should we encounter this situation. We adopted our first child from a developing country, not because we wanted to "save" a child, but because we very much wanted to become parents. However Americanized and privileged he is now, he still looks very much like those sweet-faced little ones we have seen in his birth country and possibly will see again in port cities. Had his fate been different, he might BE one of those kids. We have photos of the children we sponsor through Children Intl. on our fridge and I would be a complete hypocrite to try to explain why we help those kids but not others standing right in front of us. While I do understand everyone's point of view here, I can't imagine asking any of my children to turn their backs on kids their own age who have nothing. We will have to figure out a plan for how we can acknowledge the begging and help them out in the kindness way possible...and in a way that can lead to an educational discussion later. As someone said before, a vacation should not have to be stressful in any way, but it always can be a learning experience...

elkesails
02-11-2010, 08:34 PM
I'm glad this subject came up, actually, because I had not been thinking about it and now I can prepare my kids should we encounter this situation. We adopted our first child from a developing country, not because we wanted to "save" a child, but because we very much wanted to become parents. However Americanized and privileged he is now, he still looks very much like those sweet-faced little ones we have seen in his birth country and possibly will see again in port cities. Had his fate been different, he might BE one of those kids. We have photos of the children we sponsor through Children Intl. on our fridge and I would be a complete hypocrite to try to explain why we help those kids but not others standing right in front of us. While I do understand everyone's point of view here, I can't imagine asking any of my children to turn their backs on kids their own age who have nothing. We will have to figure out a plan for how we can acknowledge the begging and help them out in the kindness way possible...and in a way that can lead to an educational discussion later. As someone said before, a vacation should not have to be stressful in any way, but it always can be a learning experience...

Beautifully said...thank you

insureman
02-11-2010, 08:43 PM
Here's the sad truth about child beggars in Mexico that might make some to think twice about giving money to these unfortunate kids.
Excerpt "Additionally,
missionaries often comment that the major
economic export in the Oaxaca region is children
auctioned to handlers who exploit them as beggars.
Oaxacan children, some as young as three, are routinely
seen begging for money in the tourist areas
of Ensenada, Rosarito, and Tijuana. On a good day,
a begging child can net as much as $100 dollars
from tourists."
From page 81 of Military Review
http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/MilitaryReview/Archives/English/MilitaryReview_20080228_art012.pdf

sayhello
02-11-2010, 11:13 PM
Here's the sad truth about child beggars in Mexico that might make some to think twice about giving money to these unfortunate kids.
Excerpt "Additionally,
missionaries often comment that the major
economic export in the Oaxaca region is children
auctioned to handlers who exploit them as beggars.
Oaxacan children, some as young as three, are routinely
seen begging for money in the tourist areas
of Ensenada, Rosarito, and Tijuana. On a good day,
a begging child can net as much as $100 dollars
from tourists."
From page 81 of Military Review
http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/MilitaryReview/Archives/English/MilitaryReview_20080228_art012.pdfWow! That article was an eye-opener! The storefront flyer from Ensenada really says a lot!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Hewene/others/flyer.jpg

So very sad.

Sayhello

Anjelica
02-11-2010, 11:58 PM
Wow! That article was an eye-opener! The storefront flyer from Ensenada really says a lot!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Hewene/others/flyer.jpg

So very sad.

Sayhello

Agreed - Was interesting reading some of the history (not related to the store front flyer).

Thanks for the link insureman.

In terms of the flyer - St. Louis actually has outlawed pandering/begging. Instead St. Louis along with a great outfit call the McMurphy House (no relation) have been working with the general public to get people to direct the homeless into their facilities rather than giving them money. The McMurphy House actually helps people with not only bare necessities such as food and water but they also help them get jobs, etc.

The McMurphy House has a restaurant where many of the servers/waiters/waitresses were once homeless - we frequent it several times a year.

elkesails
02-12-2010, 12:08 AM
Agreed - Was interesting reading some of the history (not related to the store front flyer).

Thanks for the link insureman.

In terms of the flyer - St. Louis actually has outlawed pandering/begging. Instead St. Louis along with a great outfit call the McMurphy House (no relation) have been working with the general public to get people to direct the homeless into their facilities rather than giving them money. The McMurphy House actually helps people with not only bare necessities such as food and water but they also help them get jobs, etc.

The McMurphy House has a restaurant where many of the servers/waiters/waitresses were once homeless - we frequent it several times a year.

Well... I am relieved to know that the people of St Louis are safe... I am sure that will help the poverty stricken people in the Caribbean..and in the event that a DCL ship ends up way off course we can refer everyone to the Murphy house

Anjelica
02-12-2010, 01:05 AM
Well... I am relieved to know that the people of St Louis are safe... I am sure that will help the poverty stricken people in the Caribbean..and in the event that a DCL ship ends up way off course we can refer everyone to the Murphy house

And your point? :confused3

Rogillio
02-12-2010, 06:48 AM
And your point? :confused3



I would guess her point is this has nothing to do with the beggars in the Cozumel! And neither does the flyer posted in the boarder areas of Mexico. I've been all over Mexico and economies are vastly different on the US/Mexico boarder than they are in other parts of Mexico. Just as what goes on in St Louis is not what goes on in Detriot, Chicago or East LA.

This is exactly what I mentioned previously, if you are looking for a reason to not give, you can find one. But don't assume that what goes on in St Louis and TJ means that there are not needy people in Cozumel.

Let me just say this about Cozumel. If you can't bring yourself to give money to the beggars, at least buy their trinkets. Even if you don't need or want a bracelet, bottle of water or straw hat, buy one and throw it away later. You can pretty much bet that the thousands of dollars DCL pays in port fees, never filters down to the people who really need it.

Anjelica
02-12-2010, 08:50 AM
I would guess her point is this has nothing to do with the beggars in the Cozumel! And neither does the flyer posted in the boarder areas of Mexico. I've been all over Mexico and economies are vastly different on the US/Mexico boarder than they are in other parts of Mexico. Just as what goes on in St Louis is not what goes on in Detriot, Chicago or East LA.

This is exactly what I mentioned previously, if you are looking for a reason to not give, you can find one. But don't assume that what goes on in St Louis and TJ means that there are not needy people in Cozumel.

Let me just say this about Cozumel. If you can't bring yourself to give money to the beggars, at least buy their trinkets. Even if you don't need or want a bracelet, bottle of water or straw hat, buy one and throw it away later. You can pretty much bet that the thousands of dollars DCL pays in port fees, never filters down to the people who really need it.

Giving an example of how one city tries to make a change in terms of poverty and begging is not off topic especially when people here spout off about people "giving at the office" as an excuse not to give to beggars.

Like I said before - coming on here and giving people a hard time about how they do give seemed harsh regardless of your passion. We all have things we are very passionate about but certainly doesn't give us the moral high ground to talk down to people.

Rogillio
02-12-2010, 09:24 AM
Giving an example of how one city tries to make a change in terms of poverty and begging is not off topic especially when people here spout off about people "giving at the office" as an excuse not to give to beggars.

Like I said before - coming on here and giving people a hard time about how they do give seemed harsh regardless of your passion. We all have things we are very passionate about but certainly doesn't give us the moral high ground to talk down to people.

Still got your claws out eh? LOL

I was responding to your smart alex coment "and your point?" with the little "I'm cluess" icon. His/her point was obvious and it was obvious your were trying to be funny at his/her expense.

I never claimed to have the moral high ground....I'm just arguing for giving money to beggars and you're making snide comments.

TheWog
02-12-2010, 09:42 AM
Well, let's just kill 'em! Becuase maybe if they don't get that next hit of herione, they might just die from the DTs! Unless you've been addicted to drugs, how can you possibly know what they are going thru? If they don't get a few dollars from you, maybe they will just have to sell their body into sexual perversion to 'earn' the money for their next hit! But that's ok becuase now you can go home and feel good that you did you part to 'ween that addict' from their addiciton! If it were your daughter out on the street, would you rather some stranger give her some money or would you rather she got it from her pimp or some perverted trick? What if it was your brother who witnessed his best friend get his head blown off in Iraq and now can't seem to find the will to go on? "Tough love" is often an excuse to cover ones lask of compassion and/or stinginess.

A phrase from this thread that was used several times just keeps running through my head: "....don't give them anything, it just encourages them!!"

OMG! We certainly don't want to encourage these beggars! The last thing they need is encouragement! We should give them stern/dirty looks, avert our eyes, act like we don't see them and do our best to discourage them! How dare they interrupt our tour of their poverty ridden community by asking for money from us!! Maybe if we kicked them as we passed by they would stop coming out to hound us! They need to know that Americans are not push-overs! We earned our prosperity and we don't just give it to lazy, shiftless beggars who won't work for a living!

Sorry for the harsh sarcasm but I'm embarrassed for America at the snobbish elitism indicated in this thread.

~Mike

Are you kidding? My two dollars is going to kill someone. I didn't put them in that state. You are correct in we not knowing what brought someone to this point in life, but it is not up to me to support the habit that will kill them eventually, whether they have that next hit or not. I have enough of addiction in my family to know what happens, why it happens and what the consequences are. I do not feel the overwhelming need to give away my money to someone who will not appreciate it and to assist them in furthering the desctruction of their lives. What about their family members who would love for them to stop doing the drugs. They have probably asked them for years to stop and would be very mad at the people who continually provide them with the resources to further the destruction. I'm sorry if you feel every person in this world is entitled to something and will only survive on the backs of others, but there comes a point where people need to make their own decisions. I have given money to homeless people, but never have I felt obligated to do so or bad if I decided not to.

Anjelica
02-12-2010, 09:48 AM
Still got your claws out eh? LOL

I was responding to your smart alex coment "and your point?" with the little "I'm cluess" icon. His/her point was obvious and it was obvious your were trying to be funny at his/her expense.

I never claimed to have the moral high ground....I'm just arguing for giving money to beggars and you're making snide comments.

Responding to ones obnoxious comments with a snide one is really all you can do now isn't it?

You aren't "just arguing" for giving money to beggars. You BELITTLE folks who don't agree with giving money to beggars. You jumped on people right away when they didn't agree with your stance yet when someone questions why you seem to have a chip on your shoulder you want to start throwing out assumptions, etc.

I find your comments really unnecessary when you start to attack folks. If you had come on here and basically stated your opinions in a non-attacking way it would be a non-issue.

m&m's mom
02-12-2010, 10:04 AM
Well... I am relieved to know that the people of St Louis are safe... I am sure that will help the poverty stricken people in the Caribbean..and in the event that a DCL ship ends up way off course we can refer everyone to the Murphy house

Wow! That was very rude! The anominity of the internet help you much there?

Rogillio
02-12-2010, 10:09 AM
Responding to ones obnoxious comments with a snide one is really all you can do now isn't it?

You aren't "just arguing" for giving money to beggars. You BELITTLE folks who don't agree with giving money to beggars. You jumped on people right away when they didn't agree with your stance yet when someone questions why you seem to have a chip on your shoulder you want to start throwing out assumptions, etc.

I find your comments really unnecessary when you start to attack folks. If you had come on here and basically stated your opinions in a non-attacking way it would be a non-issue.


I don't accept your forensic analysis and characterization of my posts. You got offended and have been on the attack ever since. I find your comments and language intentionally inflamatory.

I spoke in generalities that I did not feel giving to organized charities is a good reason to turn your back on people in need right in front of your eyes. Obviously you think it does. If you think that belittles you, I am sorry. Personally I think people who have a heart to give to organized charaties are MUCH more likely to be the ones to give to someone with their hand out asking for food money. But that's just my opinion.

BTW, you've already use the "you've got a chip on your shoulder" dig once. Please try to come up with new barbs. :-)

Rogillio
02-12-2010, 10:12 AM
Wow! That was very rude! The anominity of the internet help you much there?


Pot/kettle. In only two sentences too!

m&m's mom
02-12-2010, 10:26 AM
Pot/kettle. In only two sentences too!

:rotfl2: That is just funny.

wcw57
02-12-2010, 10:27 AM
M-I-C

see you real soon....


K-E-Y


Why? because we like.....uh, tolerate......uh, disagree.......ummmm....HATE YOU


NOW, NOW, FOLKS.....play nice or the MOD fairy will take away your pixie dust privileges........

:thumbsup2:thumbsup2:thumbsup2

Rogillio
02-12-2010, 10:39 AM
Are you kidding? My two dollars is going to kill someone. I didn't put them in that state. You are correct in we not knowing what brought someone to this point in life, but it is not up to me to support the habit that will kill them eventually, whether they have that next hit or not. I have enough of addiction in my family to know what happens, why it happens and what the consequences are. I do not feel the overwhelming need to give away my money to someone who will not appreciate it and to assist them in furthering the desctruction of their lives. What about their family members who would love for them to stop doing the drugs. They have probably asked them for years to stop and would be very mad at the people who continually provide them with the resources to further the destruction. I'm sorry if you feel every person in this world is entitled to something and will only survive on the backs of others, but there comes a point where people need to make their own decisions. I have given money to homeless people, but never have I felt obligated to do so or bad if I decided not to.


Well I understand your thinking....I don't agree with it, but I understand. There is a fine line between enabling and helping. I've dealt with enough addition to believe that once someone is on the streets begging for money, they have passed the proverbial 'bottom' that was supposed to drive them to rehab. It is my opinion what they need at this point is to survive long enough until they can get real help. It's hard for people to understand that the addict does not necessary need or want food. That is why you sometimes get the violent reaction when you offer to by them a meal. They don't want what you think they need! Most of the time they just want something to help them make it thru the day....that might be a bottle of wine or it might be food or it might be herione or crack. They will get it one way or the other. Either they will steal, rob or sell their body...but they will get what their body tells them they 'need' to survive.

Rogillio
02-12-2010, 10:40 AM
M-I-C

see you real soon....


K-E-Y


Why? because we like.....uh, tolerate......uh, disagree.......ummmm....HATE YOU


NOW, NOW, FOLKS.....play nice or the MOD fairy will take away your pixie dust privileges........

:thumbsup2:thumbsup2:thumbsup2


Very nice! Thanks for the reminder. :-)

Anjelica
02-12-2010, 10:47 AM
I don't accept your forensic analysis and characterization of my posts. You got offended and have been on the attack ever since. I find your comments and language intentionally inflamatory.

I spoke in generalities that I did not feel giving to organized charities is a good reason to turn your back on people in need right in front of your eyes. Obviously you think it does. If you think that belittles you, I am sorry. Personally I think people who have a heart to give to organized charaties are MUCH more likely to be the ones to give to someone with their hand out asking for food money. But that's just my opinion.

BTW, you've already use the "you've got a chip on your shoulder" dig once. Please try to come up with new barbs. :-)

Never once did I say that giving to organized charities is a good reason to turn your back on people in need right in front of your eyes - not sure where you got that from.

The "chip on a shoulder" - not a dig just an observation. Not attacking you in the least - I'm sorry if you feel that its coming off that way.

TheWog
02-12-2010, 10:49 AM
Well I understand your thinking....I don't agree with it, but I understand. There is a fine line between enabling and helping. I've dealt with enough addition to believe that once someone is on the streets begging for money, they have passed the proverbial 'bottom' that was supposed to drive them to rehab. It is my opinion what they need at this point is to survive long enough until they can get real help. It's hard for people to understand that the addict does not necessary need or want food. That is why you sometimes get the violent reaction when you offer to by them a meal. They don't want what you think they need! Most of the time they just want something to help them make it thru the day....that might be a bottle of wine or it might be food or it might be herione or crack. They will get it one way or the other. Either they will steal, rob or sell their body...but they will get what their body tells them they 'need' to survive.

I, too, know what you are saying and am somewhat jaded based on personal, real life experience and appreciate you not attacking or judging in your response. Thanks.

wcw57
02-12-2010, 11:15 AM
AWWWWWWWWW......


see? that's soooo much nicer when we play nice:thumbsup2
:hippie::love::flower3::cheer2:

elkesails
02-12-2010, 11:18 AM
AWWWWWWWWW......


see? that's soooo much nicer when we play nice:thumbsup2
:hippie::love::flower3::cheer2:


too funny...I want to sit at your table

mmouse37
02-12-2010, 11:28 AM
This thread has now run its course so it will be closed. Thanks to those of you who provided some good info and to everyone...please, please review the board guidelines on snarky remarks and name calling.

Thank you.

MJ