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disfan07
01-24-2010, 07:01 AM
We have a rule at our preschool and daycare that if your child is still having daily poop accidents, they need to be in pull ups. We will help them with potty training. We have absolutely NO problem with potty trainign. We have actually been the ones in some cases who mention it to the parents becaus ethey show interest while at school. heck there are a couple of kids who we've basiclaly potty trained (they are there from 7:30AM-6PM 5 days a week all year).
Most parents automatically send their child in pull ups when they begin potty training ro send them in underwear adn send pull ups if we have to change them because of an accident. But here's the situation...

we have one child in my class who had turned 3 last June when we starte dthe year in august. His mom told us that he was potty trained....no accidents. Okay...great. We thought that was wonderful. Well, we know from experience that kids can regress when they go back to preschool and daycare after 2 1/2 months so we expected accident from all of our newly potty trained kids who had not been in camp and daycare over teh summer.

Throughout the first month we were right. 4 of our kids had occasional accidents ( like once a week) for the first month and than nothing. Well, this one kid was having accidents everyday. never telling us when he had to go and not tellign us when he did have an accident. We figured this would change once he got used to school again. Not so. We were willing to work with the parents who were still insistant that he enevr had accidents at hoem adn that he was fully potty trained.

Well, here we are, 4 months later and he is still having accidents everyday. Pooping and Peeing. Its not like we dont take them to the bathroom during the day...

This is our bathroom schedule
Preschool starts at 9.
We take them ALL to the bathroom around 9:15 before snack.
We take them again at 10:15 before we go outside.
Again at 11:00 when we come inside.
And at 12:00 before lunch.
And of course anytime they ask.

Once daycare starts at 1:00,we take them at 1:00 before we go outside, or to the gym
we take them at 1:30 before nap.
Again at 3:30 when they wake up.
At 4:30 before we go outside or to the gym and 5:30 when we come back to teh classroom.
Does that sound like enough? When we go as a class, they have to TRY to go. Even if they say they dont have to, they must try. We learned quickly that they will say they dont have to go adn then 2 minutes later, they have to go. If they try adn dont go, thats fine, they can ask to go when they are ready.

These [arents never send in enough clothes either adn we've had days where we;ve run out of underwear for him adn we have none in the back room his size so we put him in pull ups. What else are we supposed to do?? And his mom is alwasy mad at US because we dont have extra underwear for him:confused3

his parents were told that he needed a pull up at least for naptime. They refused. None o fthe other parents have a problem with this. Out of our 12 kids, 6 of them wear pull ups at naptime for just in case...and these kids started the year in pull ups at naptime so we never had to brign it up.

finally last week, the parents were told that he needs to be either in pull ups or diapers. Obviously, they are refusing to do this as well. Are we out of line requesting this? Do you think under these circumstances we should let him wear underwear adn just change him 3 times a day? If he is still having 2-3 accidents everyday hes not really potty trained right? I mean, I can understand all of the accidents while potty training but 4 months seems excessive...but i dont have kids yet...just daycare experience....is 4 months of everyday accidents excessive when he is supposedly "potty trained"?

I dont think we are out of line iwth this request but that is JMO.

I dont have kids so I was curious at some paretns thoughts about this situation.

kellyg403
01-24-2010, 07:38 AM
Ok, my two cents for what its worth. I understand the parents not wanting the pullup/diaper thing. If he was fully potty trained, I am assuming that their thinking is that he will never get over not using the potty again.

However, if mom wants him at daycare, he is having accidents ALL the time and everyday, she probably is going to have to let jr. wear the diapers/pullups. I couldn't imagine, if it were me, asking the daycare center to constantly do this for my child..who I am assuming is in a class of at least 10 children. If mom wants to stay home with jr for a few weeks and get him back on track without using pullups or diapers then go for it.

It really doesn't sound like anything I would be upset about. Then again, it doesn't sound like he was fully potty trained. I am no expert in children, and I am sure there is a certain amount of regression in potty training for some. I never dealt with that. But so much for so long...doesn't really sound right. I have had some of my children potty train early and then a year later start having accidents during nap or night..but usually short lived. I did whatever I could to help not having sheets and clothes to wash every two hours.

Odd situation, but no..I would not, as the parents, be mad. I would be trying to figure out why jr, who I thought was fully trained, is back to not being trained AT ALL. And understanding that we might have to resort to pull ups and diapers to help the aids get through and assist me in getting him potty trained. Sounds like mom and dad just don't want to deal with it.

Kelly

MSSANDRA
01-24-2010, 08:23 AM
Ok, Preschool director here;

You have a policy and the parent is not folowing it, of course it is not ok.
While I am not a fan of pull ups to train, for sanitary reasons, they are required for many day cares.

Are you the owner/director? If not you will have to get her on board to stop this.
What we have done a few times is to call the parents EVERYTIME the child has an acident and does not have everything they need to change into clean dry clothes. They must come get the child.Also simply send the wet stuff home in a big bag for them to deal with. We do not wash poop underwear, it gets tossed.

You may have to go as far as to dismiss the child if the parent is refuses to follow the rules.

Does the school have an age in which the child must be trained??? We do not have a strict policy on this but have gotten kids that were in other school and been let go for even one potty mistake!

this sounds mean but other parents do not want their children in an enviroment where there is body fluids not contained and the time needed to clean this up takes time away from the other children.

Now as far as training a child, I do hate pull ups and it is so much easier not to use them. If you could get this child on borad somehow and get him trained in a week or so I would try that first.


Good luck, parents are always much harder to deal with than the kids!!!!

disfan07
01-24-2010, 08:34 AM
Ok, Preschool director here;

You have a policy and the parent is not folowing it, of course it is not ok.
While I am not a fan of pull ups to train, for sanitary reasons, they are required for many day cares.

Are you the owner/director? If not you will have to get her on board to stop this.
What we have done a few times is to call the parents EVERYTIME the child has an acident and does not have everything they need to change into clean dry clothes. They must come get the child.Also simply send the wet stuff home in a big bag for them to deal with. We do not wash poop underwear, it gets tossed.

You may have to go as far as to dismiss the child if the parent is refuses to follow the rules.

Does the school have an age in which the child must be trained??? We do not have a strict policy on this but have gotten kids that were in other school and been let go for even one potty mistake!

this sounds mean but other parents do not want their children in an enviroment where there is body fluids not contained and the time needed to clean this up takes time away from the other children.

Now as far as training a child, I do hate pull ups and it is so much easier not to use them. If you could get this child on borad somehow and get him trained in a week or so I would try that first.


Good luck, parents are always much harder to deal with than the kids!!!!

No, I'm not teh director. The child is in my classroom.(Im the daycare assistant...im only there for preschool ocassionaly but the teacher i work with fills me in every afternoon when i get there)

We do send all of teh wet clothes/nap things home with the parents.
We are technically a daycare with a preschool and we do not have an age where they HAVE to be potty trained unfortunately. We have had 1 or 2 5 year olds in pull ups who were not trained.

Yeah, ive learned very quickly that teh paretns are harder than the kids. I mean Ive had difficult kids (Ive been bit, hit, kicked, spit at, etc) but some of teh parents....wow

brettcw23
01-24-2010, 09:08 AM
We have 2 daughters in day care (5 and 2). Our 2 yr old is potty training now, so I am very in tune with the process! I would have the parents come into the facility for a talk. I would lay out the potty break schedule fro them and again point out the rules of your facility around accidents. It seems very reasonable to me. In fact, our 2 year old (who is doing very well with the potty training as of this post) does better at school than home due to the regimented schedule. I can understand why the parents do not want to regress to pull-ups, but if necessity compels it, then I think that they have to respect that.

AmyBWV99
01-24-2010, 09:23 AM
I have 2 boys only one of which is trained or has gone thru being trained and as a parent I wouldn't want my kid being in wet clothes for what sounds like the better part of the day due to so many accidents. You'd think they'd at least has his comfort in mind. We have still used the occasional pull up for sleep or travel since our 4 year old has the habit of I don't need to go but then when he does it's a 4 alarm too late when he's really engaged in something. It's not that I think you're not changing him fast enough but if he's going that much he can't be having fun and is clearly not quite ready to be in big boy pants.

Our preschool calls and you have to pick up your kid if they do not have enough changing items in their cubby/bag and you have to come get them. Rarely they if its not bad they have back up pull ups there but its really the parents responsibility to ensure there's enough to cover all accidents. Once they are providing a full 4 outfits a day for him or have to pick him up they may come on board.

disfan07
01-24-2010, 09:30 AM
We have still used the occasional pull up for sleep or travel since our 4 year old has the habit of I don't need to go but then when he does it's a 4 alarm too late when he's really engaged in something

yeah, we still have these with the other kids ocassionaly. Especially teh boys. This is what is expected though.The ocassional accident becasue a child is too into somethign or just doesnt make it to teh bathroom on time is competely different than having accidents 3 times a day.

We have 12 kids in daycare. I think ALL of them have had at least 1 accident in teh past 4 months.

Rylee
01-24-2010, 09:51 AM
Here, where I live, privately funded Preschools do not have to accept children who are not potty trained. State funded Preschools do have to accept them. As for Daycare Centers, although I was the owner/operator of a Daycare for many years, I'm not sure what the rules are regarding this.

I'm sure your Center must have policies within the legal limits, and it sounds like they need to be enforced.

If the child is having that many accidents... he/she is NOT potty trained.

The parents are in denial for some reason. In many areas, finding childcare, and or Preschool openings, can be difficult... perhaps they are afraid they will be unable to find another center.

A conference needs to be called to inform the parents, they either work with the Center, or they make other arrangements for their child.

Hannathy
01-24-2010, 10:19 AM
Here, where I live, privately funded Preschools do not have to accept children who are not potty trained. State funded Preschools do have to accept them. As for Daycare Centers, although I was the owner/operator of a Daycare for many years, I'm not sure what the rules are regarding this.

I'm sure your Center must have policies within the legal limits, and it sounds like they need to be enforced.

If the child is having that many accidents... he/she is NOT potty trained.

The parents are in denial for some reason. In many areas, finding childcare, and or Preschool openings, can be difficult... perhaps they are afraid they will be unable to find another center.

A conference needs to be called to inform the parents, they either work with the Center, or they make other arrangements for their child.

I agree with this. The parents do not want to admit their child is not potty trained, whether denial or embarrassment, but that isn't your problem. Your problem is your center is not following the set rules with this family and that as a parent would make me angry and worried. I would wonder what other rules aren't they following. It also sets you up for other parents to pick and choose which rules they want to follow!

I like the idea from another poster that if they do not send enough clothes in they get called. I bet a few trips to the center from work would change their minds and they would cooperate. Could the center start charging them for pull ups every time you have to put one on if they haven't sent any?
I also as a parent wouldn't want my child playing next to a child who was going to have "accidents" every day all day and expose my child to his unrestrained "fluids". I know accidents happen but this child is going in his pants everyday really upping the chance the other kids step in, sit in or touch his accidents. Doesn't it also take a lot of staff time to clean up the area everytime he gets urine or poop on things? I hope that is being told to the parents.

disfan07
01-24-2010, 10:25 AM
Thats exactly what we started doing last week. Calling the parents to come adn change him. Now I know the mom is a teacher and teh dad is usually the one who shows up. If the dad can show up 3 times a day between 9 adn 4:30 what teh heck can he be doing for work????

We have a meeting with the parents tomorrow...I have this feelign somethign will happen then.

We do charge for pull ups that we have to use after the first day that a parent "forgets" to send them in. They get one free day adn thats it.

Whats weird is that this center is usually really good about enforcign teh rules. We've had to enforce the biting rules a number of times this year as well as the cursing rules (really....at 3 who uses the f word) adn we've had to enforce the excessive late pickup rules.
I dont know hwat the deal is with this one...but i have a feeling i'll find out tomorrow

Alice's Mommy
01-24-2010, 12:02 PM
One question: if the school is willing to work on potty training, why is it necessary to have him in pull-ups? Shouldn't there be some recognition on the part of the daycare providers as to his potty signals? I trained both of my kids without pull-ups. I watched for the usual signals that pee or poop was coming. My kids poop around the same time every day...isn't there a way for the teacher to watch for this and get this child to the potty before he poops in his pants?

My children are not in daycare or preschool but I have had issues with potty training regression. I can understand why the parents in this situation may not want to go back to pull-ups. In my opinion pull-ups reinforce the idea that it's all right to poop in your pants. I use pull-ups only for bedtime and car trips that exceed 2 hours. My mother, who enjoys taking my kids overnight, keeps my son in pull-ups for her visit and he ALWAYS poops in his pull-up. She thinks that he isn't potty trained fully but he is when he's wearing underpants. It infuriates me.

I understand that this issue goes beyond the occasional poop accident though. I wish I had more advice on how to deal with the parents in this situation, but I wanted to offer a little insight on the behalf of the mom in this issue. Her child is probably not having any of these accidents at home and she probably thinks (as I am apt to) that pull-ups may undo all the work she has done with potty training.

Zeebs
01-24-2010, 01:36 PM
Our nursery who takes the children from 2 don't require pull ups, we just put them in pants and when they get to Nursery they get a wee sticker on their back saying that they are toilet training "please ask if I need a wee".

I agree with previous poster if the nursery is happy to help with training then just having a regular schedule of when you check the children isn't obviously enough for this child.

That said, if it is nursery policy and the parents signed up agreeing to meet policy they should do so.

Kirsten

disneyandme
01-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Any update from today's meeting?

woodkins
01-25-2010, 05:37 PM
One question: if the school is willing to work on potty training, why is it necessary to have him in pull-ups? Shouldn't there be some recognition on the part of the daycare providers as to his potty signals? I trained both of my kids without pull-ups. I watched for the usual signals that pee or poop was coming. My kids poop around the same time every day...isn't there a way for the teacher to watch for this and get this child to the potty before he poops in his pants?

My children are not in daycare or preschool but I have had issues with potty training regression. I can understand why the parents in this situation may not want to go back to pull-ups. In my opinion pull-ups reinforce the idea that it's all right to poop in your pants. I use pull-ups only for bedtime and car trips that exceed 2 hours. My mother, who enjoys taking my kids overnight, keeps my son in pull-ups for her visit and he ALWAYS poops in his pull-up. She thinks that he isn't potty trained fully but he is when he's wearing underpants. It infuriates me.

I understand that this issue goes beyond the occasional poop accident though. I wish I had more advice on how to deal with the parents in this situation, but I wanted to offer a little insight on the behalf of the mom in this issue. Her child is probably not having any of these accidents at home and she probably thinks (as I am apt to) that pull-ups may undo all the work she has done with potty training.

As I mom I hear where you are coming from, but as OP has stated they are taking the kids to the bathroom about 1x per hour and every child must try to go. I was also a teacher & it would be very difficult to watch each child for their "signs". The issue is really a health and sanitation issue when a child is soiling themselves 3-4 times per day. Not only for that child but for the other classmates, if the child is sitting on rugs etc it becomes a much larger issue than simply changing an outfit.

Bottom line is the policy is for pull ups, if the parents don't agree to the center's policy then they need to find another center.

Captain_Hook
01-25-2010, 06:27 PM
Now, I could be wrong (I haven't started training my son yet):

If a parent is looking for the child's pee/poop signals -- isn't the child potty training the parent and not vice versa??

Not trying to offend. Just curious. How does the child start to realize when he/she needs to go if the parent swoops in and takes the child to the bathroom?

As I said, we haven't started yet. Must do some research first....

starsweeper
01-25-2010, 06:36 PM
I placed my kids in preschool/daycare as young 3-year-olds this past fall. We moved to the area last summer and I had a difficult time finding any centers (public or private) that accepted 3-year-olds that are not potty trained. My DD had shown interest, but DS absolutely refused. Just this month, at 41 months, my DS is willing to try using the potty but still has accidents. However, most of his accidents are at home. he stays dry at preschool most days now (3 weeks into underwear only training).

Perhaps the parents are trying to do underwear only, thinking you will train him eventually, but he isn't really interested yet. I understand why they may be against pull-ups because it didn't help us any, but they are in denial that their kid isn't ready for underwear. We have to provide 2 changes of clothes (top to socks) for each child regardless of their training level, and are asked to provide 4 or more clothing sets for kids transitioning to underwear. So I don't get why they won't at least give extra clothes. As to the dad showing up, my DH works from home and could visit our center several times a day (only 10 min away) if necessary.

leebee
01-25-2010, 07:00 PM
I guess what strikes me most is that the parents are insisting that the child is potty trained at home. Maybe they aren't in denial; maybe, at HOME, he is potty trained. Perhaps it's time to wonder what it is about the school day that causes the child to regress. Please don't misunderstand; I don't mean to insinuate that this is a bad daycare or anything. I just think maybe it's time to take a closer look at why the child is untrained at school and totally trained at home. It doesn't make sense. :confused3

Hannathy
01-25-2010, 07:15 PM
I guess what strikes me most is that the parents are insisting that the child is potty trained at home. Maybe they aren't in denial; maybe, at HOME, he is potty trained. Perhaps it's time to wonder what it is about the school day that causes the child to regress. Please don't misunderstand; I don't mean to insinuate that this is a bad daycare or anything. I just think maybe it's time to take a closer look at why the child is untrained at school and totally trained at home. It doesn't make sense. :confused3

All I could think of when I read this is the line from House:

"Everybody lies"

I find it very hard to believe he is "completely" trained at home and regresses THAT much at day care.

princessmom29
01-25-2010, 07:44 PM
Now, I could be wrong (I haven't started training my son yet):

If a parent is looking for the child's pee/poop signals -- isn't the child potty training the parent and not vice versa??

Not trying to offend. Just curious. How does the child start to realize when he/she needs to go if the parent swoops in and takes the child to the bathroom?

As I said, we haven't started yet. Must do some research first....

As I mom I hear where you are coming from, but as OP has stated they are taking the kids to the bathroom about 1x per hour and every child must try to go. I was also a teacher & it would be very difficult to watch each child for their "signs". The issue is really a health and sanitation issue when a child is soiling themselves 3-4 times per day. Not only for that child but for the other classmates, if the child is sitting on rugs etc it becomes a much larger issue than simply changing an outfit.

Bottom line is the policy is for pull ups, if the parents don't agree to the center's policy then they need to find another center.

I have been the teacher is this situation, and I totally understand the need for pullups in daycare. If I have a child I am taking to the batroom at least once an hour who absolutely refuses to use the restroom what else can you do with 10 other children in the room that need your attention? It really does take a long time to clean up a 3 year old who has soiled themselves and sanitize everything that they might have touched or contaminated in the process. I cannot imagine being able to be an effective teacher donig this 4 plus times a day every day. It is not fair to the other children in the room. I agree that there needs to be a sit down with the parents to delve into what is really happening at home vs at school and where the disparity might be. Is he having any accidents at all at home? Is he dry all night every night? These are questions that need asking, and you alos have to cosider the fact that the parents may not be completely honest with you. If you cannot find some reason for the child to be doing this nad find a plan to fix it I say he should go back in pullups or be asked to leave the center.

DW2010
01-26-2010, 12:06 AM
I would definitely lay out the rules for the mom. This is coming from a parent who has had her battles with pottytraining...let me tell you...lol. My DD was "I thought* first trained at 2 years and 3 months old. That lasted for about a month and then it's like she forgot how. So, I put her back in pullups. 6 months later, she became daytrained only to have regressions a few times. Basically she'd go a month or more without an accident and then have a few accidents a week and then back on track again. She is 3 years and 3 months old and still does it. Just today she peed in her pants while we were home! She never does it while we're out and about! She does ocassionally have an accident at daycare while napping, though. BUT she only goes one day a week! While at home accidents are becoming rare, although they still happen when she's caught up in playing.

DW2010
01-26-2010, 12:08 AM
I guess what strikes me most is that the parents are insisting that the child is potty trained at home. Maybe they aren't in denial; maybe, at HOME, he is potty trained. Perhaps it's time to wonder what it is about the school day that causes the child to regress. Please don't misunderstand; I don't mean to insinuate that this is a bad daycare or anything. I just think maybe it's time to take a closer look at why the child is untrained at school and totally trained at home. It doesn't make sense. :confused3

This might very well be! My DD never has accidents while we're out and about. At daycare, the only accident she might have is when she's napping. If she's going to have an accident, it's at home! So strange. It's like she just gets lazy or something and caught up in playing or something.

bumbershoot
01-26-2010, 03:13 AM
"If he is still having 2-3 accidents everyday hes not really potty trained right?"

Right.

If I had a child in that situation, and took him to Ikea's Småland to play, and he had an accident, they'd boot him. If I were sending him to daycare, I'd expect the same, if they had such rules.


OFF TOPIC!


Now, I could be wrong (I haven't started training my son yet):

If a parent is looking for the child's pee/poop signals -- isn't the child potty training the parent and not vice versa??

Not trying to offend. Just curious. How does the child start to realize when he/she needs to go if the parent swoops in and takes the child to the bathroom?

As I said, we haven't started yet. Must do some research first....

Doesn't matter. Gets to the same goal. And IMO is easier for the parent to read the kidlet's signs! Gets things done earlier.

Watch your kids. See if they make a certain face right before they go. Then, when you see that face, it's a teachable moment, swooping them onto the potty (we had one next to the family bed and one downstairs in the living room, because he REFUSED to sit on the toilet for a time) shows them "this is where you go". And then, when dipes (we used cloth) and clothes are pulled right back up, no obnoxious changing needed, that's another bonus!

Heck, even at night DS had signals, and that's where our potty-learning began.

He would squirm and wake, I would nurse him back to sleep, then 10 minutes later he would flood his dipe and wake for an hour, very upset. AUGH. This happened most nights.

Realized at long last that the squirming was him saying "I gotta go!". So that's when we moved the potty next to my side of the bed. He'd squirm, I'd wake up, swing him over onto the potty, he'd pee, I'd swing him back up, pull up the dipe, and we'd go back to sleep. Ahhhh. Nice.

If I had waited until he said "excuse me Mother darling, I must go wee now" late at night, well, I'd still be waiting. In fact he's sleeping next to me on the couch right now, because he wakes when he needs to pee, but doesn't like going on his own at night. So he woke, came out to find me, sat down, went to sleep. When I'm done with this post, I'll turn off lights and take him back to bed, stopping for a potty break on the way. (this is just a nighttime thing...during the day he's fabulous and has been since he was 2.5)

My friends thought I was crazy, having the potties outside of bathrooms. But it all worked out, and it was much less work for me, and less time needed from "uh oh" to go, and I'm happy with it. :goodvibes

disneyandme
01-26-2010, 09:41 PM
So what happened?

Duckyiam71
01-26-2010, 10:57 PM
Wow! I think the family is lucky. My DSs attend a daycare on military post. They have extremely strict guidelines. When the child turns 3, they move into another room. Once this move is complete, they must wear underwear and NO pull-ups period. Pull ups are not an option when they move. Like PPs have stated if we cannot follow these guidelines we have to find another center. I have never heard of parents not wanting to do this and my children had one accident that was enough for them. i had it easy when it came to potty training. Thank you God!