Looking for manual focus tips

[NateNLogansDad]

Got back from the trial run.....I mean our recent, spur of the moment Disney trip....and I have much more respect for everybody on here who has captured the dark rides with their camera. :worship:

This year the amount of camera flash was really starting to annoy me (even though I used to be one of "them") but something else I didn't realize was my itty bitty focus light looks like a 500,000 candle power spotlight in the dark.

I took a lot of pictures in manual focus after that which seemed OK in the viewfinder but were out of focus on my PC. Is there anything you recommend to help see the image better in the viewfinder? The LCD really isn't an option in my opinion, that's just going to bother the people sitting near you.

P.S. I don't think it's an issue with motion blur, just out of focus.

[annnewjerz]

First, just a heads up that you can turn your AF assist light off and still use the AF. I've never had to manual focus on the dark rides with my D90 and although I could have tried during really dim parts of HM, it hasn't been necessary yet.

Next, for making sure something is in focus better when you are shooting---don't you have a little in focus light that you can see in your viewfinder? With my D60 and D90, there is a little green light in the bottom left part of the screen that will blink quickly, slowly or become solid. When you get a solid light (or close to solid)---that means you are in focus and okay to take the photo. I used to have to manual focus my 50mm lens with my D60 and the little in-focus light worked like a charm.

If your camera doesn't have that, is there a reason you think your LCD isn't an option? You don't have to hold the camera up where it's in everyone's view---but you could easily hold it on your lap and quickly review your shots. I do this a lot on rides like Pirates and on rides like Haunted Mansion, I don't even bother to hold it down because we're in our own little sheltered doom buggy.

Good luck next time and even if you don't think it's motion blur, you should probably post an example for everyone to look at. Even if you think the shutter speed was fast enough, the dark ride "experts" could probably tell you if it seems like it might be too slow for a clear image. :thumbsup2

[NateNLogansDad]

Time to whip out the old novel they call a manual and start hunting! Does the green light work if you have your lens set to M and you are choosing the focus point? I'm hoping to get a chance to play around outside tonight.

[annnewjerz]

Time to whip out the old novel they call a manual and start hunting! Does the green light work if you have your lens set to M and you are choosing the focus point? I'm hoping to get a chance to play around outside tonight.

Yes, the light works when you lens is on Manual and also when it's a fully manual lens (like my Lensbaby). It's VERY helpful and if your camera has one, a great tool to get to know.

[NateNLogansDad]

If I ever hit the lottery I want to invite a bunch of you guys on here for a trip to the World for a week or two so I can learn to use this thing the right way :laughing:

[Icemann]

The knowledge and helpfulness on this board is amazing.I just found the little green light on my D40 & D3000. Thank You Ann.That gives me an idea now

[annnewjerz]

When you look into your viewfinder, you should see a meter along with your settings and other relevant information. It should look like this:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2009_reviews/nikon_d5000/nikon_d5000_viewfinder2.gif

Number 6 (all the way on the left) is your in-focus indicator. That will flash and once you are fully in focus, it will remain solid.

Here (http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/nikon/d5000-slr/nikon-d5000-features-controls.html) is the site I pulled the diagram from and if you want more information, I think it's a nice place to get it without necessarily having to read through your whole manual again.

[Icemann]

If I ever hit the lottery I want to invite a bunch of you guys on here for a trip to the World for a week or two so I can learn to use this thing the right way :laughing:

If I also win I'll pay half :thumbsup2

[NateNLogansDad]

The knowledge and helpfulness on this board is amazing.I just found the little green light on my D40 & D3000. Thank You Ann.That gives me an idea now

Tell me about it! At least once a week I read something on here that makes me go :eek: and you can almost see the little light bulb above my head flicker on.

[NateNLogansDad]

If I also win I'll pay half :thumbsup2

Maybe we should keep it to be just the Nikon guys and gals though......don't want and crappy photos:rotfl2:

[NateNLogansDad]

Ann you are awesome! I'm going for the camera now!

[NateNLogansDad]

AAAAHHHHHH!!!!!! Why didn't I post his while I was down there!!!!! Tina is sitting on the couch next to me and saw me giggling. She's asking if I just learned something new AGAIN! Yep!:banana:

[ukcatfan]

It may be only a Pentax option, but on them you can leave AF on in the camera but turn it off on the lens (or MF lens) and the camera will not take the shot until the focus sensor reads that it is in focus. So, you can just hold in the shutter, adjust the focus, and it will only take the shot when it senses the focus is good. Not all auto focus lenses have the option of turning it off on the lens though.

[NateNLogansDad]

It may be only a Pentax option, but on them you can leave AF on in the camera but turn it off on the lens (or MF lens) and the camera will not take the shot until the focus sensor reads that it is in focus. So, you can just hold in the shutter, adjust the focus, and it will only take the shot when it senses the focus is good. Not all auto focus lenses have the option of turning it off on the lens though.

Would that require having a focus motor built into the camera?

[boBQuincy]

Maybe we should keep it to be just the Nikon guys and gals though......don't want and crappy photos:rotfl2:

Watch it, some of us Canon people know where Delaware County is! ;)

Afaik the little green focus light is driven by the auto focus system. If it can detect proper focus manually it should also be capable of focusing automatically under the same conditions.

I have rarely had problems with getting auto focus to lock on to a subject by looking for a defining edge, something with sharp contrast. I usually leave my camera set to only the center focus point. There is always the possibility of getting blur due to "focus shift" with this technique, where the point we focus on is not the same distance as the real subject, but with care it is not often a problem.

Maybe this even will work for Nikons! ;)

[NateNLogansDad]

You know I'm kidding! Wouldn't it be fun to have a bunch of us all together for a weekend trip? Imagine 20 people together hauling around tons of equipment going on Peter Pan:lmao: In our spare time we can follow a guest around like paparazzi and make other people think they are a celebrity :lmao:

[NateNLogansDad]

Just figured out how to turn off the illumination light for auto focus! Come on November!

[ukcatfan]

Would that require having a focus motor built into the camera?

I would not think that it would since it is the AF sensor, not the motor.

[NateNLogansDad]

I would not think that it would since it is the AF sensor, not the motor.

There's that little light bulb again :idea:

[Marlton Mom]

Hi all,

On my December trip I was on manual focus and I was using the rangefinder feature on my Nikon D60 when using the Tokina 11 to 16 F 2.8.

I'm sorry to say that this focus assist system when using a manual lens was not able to meet my expectations.

I was constantly having trouble getting sharp focus but I have to mention a couple of things in possible explanation that might affect the clarity of these shots.
A.) most of them were at night when any kind of focusing suffers in low light conditions.
B.) my f stop was wide open so that is definitely going to effect clarity.
C.) my ISO was on auto so that is another factor (I feel) in affecting image clarity.
D.) I'm 46 years old and I wear freakin bifocals for god's sake!!! My glasses are such that unless I am looking through the proverbial eye of a needle and I am hitting the exact spot of focus on my glasses, things are seen with progressive level of blurriness. Can any one recommend a good seeing eye photography dog?.....one that will perhaps lug equipment and focus a lens from time to time?? :rolleyes:

I have been working like a busy bee buffing up my pictures so I can have them ready for a trip report but..... things are busier than I expected.... so slow it goes.

One of the things I would do over again is shoot more shots in aperture mode at a higher (smaller) F stop with my ISO at the lowest setting possible. That would mean REALLY L O N G exposures but what the hay, all those people in the way would ghost out right?

I remember someone advising that you have to find the right f stop to maximize the focus ability of a given lens. Is that accurate? Discuss, discuss!

Basically I had to keep on keepin on in the parks because I wasn't totally free of the family and I was trying to do 2 things at once, take pictures and keep DH & DS on track for our objectives for this trip. This also meant that I was out the door early in the morning and not back to the hotel til Late at night, from all the picture taking.

This meant that I was dog tired and that led to some mistakes, like deciding to try the mono-pod instead of the tripod for an evening of after hours park photography towards the end of the trip. (Not good, NOT good!)

So, from my experience I think many factors affected my ability to get the focus that I wanted. Also keep in mind NateNLogansDad that we are relatively new to certain equipment that we are just now using so the key is to be patient and keep trying. I'm sure you got some great shots so consider that a great start. With more experience we will be whizzes just like the rest of that gang on this board ;)

Smoochies,
(A STILL tired ) :faint:
Marlton Mom

[NateNLogansDad]

One of my biggest weaknesses is also one of my favorite past times, my family. I can't always drop the tripod wherever I want with a 4 and 5 yr old and expect them to wait patiently. I do have a VERY understanding wife who lets me play as long as it's within reason. That being said, most of my shots are taken while walking when in Disney. I do need to practice more, that goes without saying, I'm thinking one of those DVD's might be in order eventually to walk me through the camera functions. The manual is great but I can't always remember what I read after a few pages or so.

[disneyboy2003]

One of my biggest weaknesses is also one of my favorite past times, my family. I can't always drop the tripod wherever I want with a 4 and 5 yr old and expect them to wait patiently.

You probably shouldn't be using a tripod, if you're trying to take pictures of your 4 and 5-year-old kids. Let them go have fun, and adjust your photography skills to catch up with them. Probably your best photos of your children are ones where you capture them naturally having fun, rather than an unnatural-looking posed photo from a tripod. This is especially true at Disney World! :)

[NateNLogansDad]

You probably shouldn't be using a tripod, if you're trying to take pictures of your 4 and 5-year-old kids. Let them go have fun, and adjust your photography skills to catch up with them. Probably your best photos of your children are ones where you capture them naturally having fun, rather than an unnatural-looking posed photo from a tripod. This is especially true at Disney World! :)

Absolutely 100%! I was talking about shots at night that I'd like to get a few good longer exposures. The fireworks worked out ok because they will sit still for them. Other than that the tripod stayed in the stroller.

I'd never even consider a tripod for my 2 boys:rotfl2: Imagine any other two kids in Disney, now give them chocolate...and a soda. That's how my two are when they wake up:lmao: Tripod? Try speedlight!

I do wish I had them pose a little more for a pic here and there but I did get a few. For the most part, their job is to go act like kids while on vacation and it is so much fun.

Off topic: If you ever find yourself walking around EPCOT paying too much attention to your camera, go to the WS and look for Off Kilter. There's NOTHING like putting the camera down and dancing with the kids without caring who's watching. That's one of my best memories of this trip.

[disneyboy2003]

Absolutely 100%! I was talking about shots at night that I'd like to get a few good longer exposures. The fireworks worked out ok because they will sit still for them. Other than that the tripod stayed in the stroller.

I'd never even consider a tripod for my 2 boys:rotfl2: Imagine any other two kids in Disney, now give them chocolate...and a soda. That's how my two are when they wake up:lmao: Tripod? Try speedlight!

I do wish I had them pose a little more for a pic here and there but I did get a few. For the most part, their job is to go act like kids while on vacation and it is so much fun.

Oops! I mis-read your previous reply, and thought you were talking about using the tripod to take pictures of your boys. I see now what you actually meant...trying to use the tripod to take long-exposure pictures of other things, while your 2 boys are hanging around.

[NateNLogansDad]

Oops! I mis-read your previous reply, and thought you were talking about using the tripod to take pictures of your boys. I see now what you actually meant...trying to use the tripod to take long-exposure pictures of other things, while your 2 boys are hanging around. :thumbsup2

It's just temporary though. I let them use the old camera once in a while to take pictures of their own, and they love it! I've planted the seed :rolleyes1 Eventually We'll be sharing lenses and picking out 2 more tripods:laughing:

[Groucho]

Would that require having a focus motor built into the camera?

Afaik the little green focus light is driven by the auto focus system. If it can detect proper focus manually it should also be capable of focusing automatically under the same conditions.
The system that Kevin is talking about is called "catch-in focus" - like he said, you just leave the camera set to autofocus and hold down the shutter button; when it detects that you are focused, it automatically trips the shutter. The light is driven by the AF system - it's the same brain that focuses on AF lenses, but it just has no way of adjusting the focus itself on a manual lens. (Unless you use Pentax's 1.7 TC/AF adapter which can autofocus most any manual-focus lens! An amazing and unique little piece of hardware.)

I'm not sure how many other manufacturers (if any) offer catch-in focusing, and if they do, they may use different terminology.

[B][I]I remember someone advising that you have to find the right f stop to maximize the focus ability of a given lens. Is that accurate? Discuss, discuss!
Well, a faster lens can focus better in low light because it can deliver more light to the AF hardware, and because the lens is always "wide open" when not actually taking the photo (there are exception but you probably won't encouter any), it doesn't matter what you have the aperture set to. Now, if you choose a smaller aperture (higher F-stop number), you will have more of the photo in focus - but the tradeoff if that you will need to use a longer shutter speed (more blur) or higher ISO (more noise) to make up for the lost aperture.

Now then, tips for manual focusing... well, it is a skill that takes time to develop. Practice, practice, practice! (I am not nearly as good now as I used to be when I didn't have the option of AF!) Most DSLRs are not really designed to make manual focusing easy. Entry-level DSLRs tend to have smaller, dimmer viewfinders, making it even worse. You can try swapping in a new focusing screen that has a microprism and/or split-prism in the middle, which helps a lot. I have the Katz Eye (big bucks) in my K20D and have a Chinese one (cheap) on the way for the K-7, so I should soon have an opinion about how they compare. The Katz Eye site is a good one to take a look at to get an idea of how they work.

[mom2rtk]

One of my biggest weaknesses is also one of my favorite past times, my family. I can't always drop the tripod wherever I want with a 4 and 5 yr old and expect them to wait patiently. I do have a VERY understanding wife who lets me play as long as it's within reason. That being said, most of my shots are taken while walking when in Disney. I do need to practice more, that goes without saying, I'm thinking one of those DVD's might be in order eventually to walk me through the camera functions. The manual is great but I can't always remember what I read after a few pages or so.

Go with the strength of the situation..... start taking pictures of the back of your family! Some of those shots are really cool.....

[mom2rtk]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have a related question on manual focusing. I have seen many of you mention focusing to infinity for your fireworks shots. How do I do that? I have a Canon Xsi.

[boBQuincy]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have a related question on manual focusing. I have seen many of you mention focusing to infinity for your fireworks shots. How do I do that? I have a Canon Xsi.

I auto focus on a distant object near where the fireworks will be, like Cindy's castle, American Adventure pavilion, etc. then set the switch on the lens to M and don't touch the focus ring anymore. Some zoom lenses may slightly change focus as they are zoomed but I have not had a problem with that.

My fireworks photos are mostly taken with a Canon 24-105 or 10-22 and I have not checked those lenses for focus shift but it has not been a problem either. Most of my fireworks photos are also taken at f/11 and on a 10-22 everything is in focus from my feet to infinity! ;)

[NateNLogansDad]

Go with the strength of the situation..... start taking pictures of the back of your family! Some of those shots are really cool.....

It's funny you should mention that, last year when we went I was always straggling behind and Tina (DW) would keep going, knowing I'd eventually catch up. When we got home, we went through the pictures and there must have been over 100 of her hunched over a little pushing the stroller down the street. Let's just say it was amusing, but she didn't think so:rotfl2:

[NateNLogansDad]

I auto focus on a distant object near where the fireworks will be, like Cindy's castle, American Adventure pavilion, etc. then set the switch on the lens to M and don't touch the focus ring anymore. Some zoom lenses may slightly change focus as they are zoomed but I have not had a problem with that.


That was the same method I was using last week and was pretty happy with how they came out. Now If I can keep from blowing out the highlights, I'd be set.

Would this be kind of correct even though albiet extremely dumbed down?
You aren't trying to make the fireworks crisp from that far away, in essence the tripod will do that for you by eliminating the shake. By focusing on something in the background, it should give you an all round nice picture.

I'm assuming it would be harder sitting in a field at a local fireworks display but I haven't yet tried it. If you aren't too far from where they are going off (say 150 yrds) and you aren't shooting really wide, would you have to find some kind of focal point or would infinity still work that close up? I.E. is it actually possible to make fireworks look blurry while using a tripod? My heads going to pop soon. :surfweb:

[mom2rtk]

I auto focus on a distant object near where the fireworks will be, like Cindy's castle, American Adventure pavilion, etc. then set the switch on the lens to M and don't touch the focus ring anymore. Some zoom lenses may slightly change focus as they are zoomed but I have not had a problem with that.

My fireworks photos are mostly taken with a Canon 24-105 or 10-22 and I have not checked those lenses for focus shift but it has not been a problem either. Most of my fireworks photos are also taken at f/11 and on a 10-22 everything is in focus from my feet to infinity! ;)


That's VERY helpful. THANK YOU!

It's funny you should mention that, last year when we went I was always straggling behind and Tina (DW) would keep going, knowing I'd eventually catch up. When we got home, we went through the pictures and there must have been over 100 of her hunched over a little pushing the stroller down the street. Let's just say it was amusing, but she didn't think so:rotfl2:

I hadn't thought of it from the standpoint of being an adult woman on the receiving end of this technique!!! Especially if you were bending over the stroller! I do tend to reserve this for standing photos.... and usually just kids.....

[mom2rtk]

That was the same method I was using last week and was pretty happy with how they came out. Now If I can keep from blowing out the highlights, I'd be set.

Would this be kind of correct even though albiet extremely dumbed down?
You aren't trying to make the fireworks crisp from that far away, in essence the tripod will do that for you by eliminating the shake. By focusing on something in the background, it should give you an all round nice picture.

I'm assuming it would be harder sitting in a field at a local fireworks display but I haven't yet tried it. If you aren't too far from where they are going off (say 150 yrds) and you aren't shooting really wide, would you have to find some kind of focal point or would infinity still work that close up? I.E. is it actually possible to make fireworks look blurry while using a tripod? My heads going to pop soon. :surfweb:

So at a fireworks show without distant landmarks, like a local 4th of July show, would you maybe just use one of the first bursts to focus, then set it to manual?

[NateNLogansDad]

So at a fireworks show without distant landmarks, like a local 4th of July show, would you maybe just use one of the first bursts to focus, then set it to manual?

That would be my thought but hopefully someone who has already done it, can chime in and correct us if we're wrong. Definitely set it to manual and use a remote :thumbsup2

[boBQuincy]

That would be my thought but hopefully someone who has already done it, can chime in and correct us if we're wrong. Definitely set it to manual and use a remote :thumbsup2

There is almost always *something* distant that we can use to lock onto infinity focus, a light, a star, the moon... one thing I do not do is adjust it manually since I can't tell from the viewfinder if things are in sharp focus or not. Ok, two things, *never* rely on turning the focus ring to the stops!

[mom2rtk]

So can I assume since a smaller aperture is typically used for fireworks that that there is a large enough DOF to leave a little room for error in focusing this way????

[boBQuincy]

Sort of…
Some people may suggest using the hyperfocal setting, where it is assumed that everything from a certain distance out will be in focus at a given aperture. This may not work as well as expected and here is why: hyperfocal (depth of field) depends on the subjective circle of confusion.

The COC is when an out of focus point of light is considered to be as large as it can be without affecting sharpness, so it is an arbitrary size. Where the problem comes in is that the COC formula includes an enlargement factor (usually an 8x10 print from 35mm film). We now routinely print much larger from sensors that are smaller, thus the COC formula now includes sensor size but the traditional hyperfocal settings may no longer be valid.

The next issue is that as DOF increases due to smaller apertures, the sharpness also decreases due to diffraction. There is a point at which the COC begins to increase and DOF decreases in spite of smaller apertures! With fireworks being captured at f/11 and f/16 we will definitely see some diffraction effects, this may show increased sharpness with the use of a ND filter instead of small apertures. A lot of this is hypothetical and even though I understand it I choose to just take pictures and ignore it.
So there! ;)

As for blown out highlights from fireworks, I get very few at ISO 100 and f/11 or f/16 except for the grand finales. I may try my 1.8 ND filter for those big bursts of white light someday, it just seems strange to use a dark filter at night. ;) Funny, my G11 has a built in 3 stop ND filter, which I believe is really only software reducing the ISO. It sure would be nice to have this in my dSLR, even down to ISO of 1 so I wouldn't need ND filters!

[NateNLogansDad]

brb....I need to take another Tylenol.

[TheGoofster]

NateNLogans Dad,

Sounds like you and I are in a similar situation. We both have a relatively new Nikon D5000, we both are wanting to learn as much as we can about it. We both come to these boards hoping to pick the brains of some of these great and knowledgeable photographers, and we both have families that tend to get in the way of our spending quality time with our camera (oops, did I just say that). I mean that we both have wonderful, loving families that add an extra level of challenge to our photographic pursuits. :thumbsup2

I think what this calls for is for you and me to make a special photographer-wannabees-only trip to Disney so we can try and figure all of this stuff out without any unnecessary distractions (Oh man, I did it again didn't I?) We can both try and take pictures on the same ride, and whichever comes out better, we can than tell the other what we happened to do right.

What do you think, sound like a plan? Now if I can just get my wife to agree I'll be all set.

[NateNLogansDad]

NateNLogans Dad,

I mean that we both have wonderful, loving families that add an extra level of challenge to our photographic pursuits. :thumbsup2


Dude you are cracking me up. I am so stealing that line :rotfl2:

As for the trip, there isn't enough magic in the Kingdom for that to happen! My wife is VERY understanding with alot of the things I pursue, but there's no way she'd let me go without her! :lmao: And I don't have the heart to leave the boys home! I figure if I keep it up, maybe I'll eventually take some good enough pictures with the kiddies bugging.....I mean Challenging me, that when they are old enough to go do things on their own I'll be able to impress at least one person on here.

Then again, if I try going on a solo photography trip, I might just get hit in the back of the head with the D5000 and that will be the end of it!:laughing:

[boBQuincy]

Then again, if I try going on a solo photography trip, I might just get hit in the back of the head with the D5000 and that will be the end of it!:laughing:

I manage to get away for a solo WDW photo trip about every other year. DW does not have too much trouble with it because I can do the "setup" shots (like waiting for another monorail for 20 minutes) on those trips instead of on "our" trip! The main ground rules are 3 day/2 night trips, frequent phone/text/photo messages, no eating at fancy restaurants without her, and no flirting with Ariel! ;)

[NateNLogansDad]

and no flirting with Ariel! ;)

Pocahontas?