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Hmk012
01-06-2010, 05:35 PM
I've cruised with Disney before...almost 7 years ago and LOVED IT! I'm trying to talk my husband into sailing on the Dream in June 2011! He's having a hard time on the price. We are looking at a balcony room (he won't do anything else) and it's $5400 for 5 nights. He can't understand why it's so much when we just spent $2700 for 5 nights at Disney at the GF Club Level including Park Hoppers....
I've told him DCL is very different from others...we've done NCL and Princess. How do I talk him into this? I do agree DCL is much more than most lines, but it's Disney and isn't everything more with them anyway!?:confused3

auntsue
01-06-2010, 05:58 PM
Good luck! We're going on our upcoming cruise only because it was the incentive for buying BLT and DH has already told me, "It's our first and last Disney cruise." Everytime I say, "Maybe next time" he reminds me of that.

I'm just hoping it will be so great that he'll be blown away, because it is a lot more expensive than others, we don't have kids, and he's not the Disney fanatic that I am. We live in FL and I've mentioned about getting a last minute Florida resident deal on the DCL in the future, but even that didn't get him to change his mind.

I think for your kids it will be unlike any other cruise you've ever been on. It just sounds so great that I can't wait to go.

Maybe others in your same circumstances can give you some ideas. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

plyeng2ff
01-06-2010, 06:31 PM
I've cruised with Disney before...almost 7 years ago and LOVED IT! I'm trying to talk my husband into sailing on the Dream in June 2011! He's having a hard time on the price. We are looking at a balcony room (he won't do anything else) and it's $5400 for 5 nights. He can't understand why it's so much when we just spent $2700 for 5 nights at Disney at the GF Club Level including Park Hoppers....
I've told him DCL is very different from others...we've done NCL and Princess. How do I talk him into this? I do agree DCL is much more than most lines, but it's Disney and isn't everything more with them anyway!?:confused3

Anyone that has to justify the price of a trip anywhere is never going to come out ahead. The person is going to find fault because of the price.

:donald:

codygirl5150
01-06-2010, 06:52 PM
This is my first post ever on the DCL forum! I'm planning our first cruise ever!

We were originally thinking about a Chrismas 2011 cruise, but I was disappointed to find out about the not so favorable weather at that time of year. My sis is going in June 2011, and after seeing that we will save about $800 if we go at that time I was sold (and DH too)! Maybe you should show him the quotes for a christmas cruise and then he may not think it's that bad of a deal!

williamson_ja
01-06-2010, 07:31 PM
I have an easier time convincing my dh on such things when I can get a really good deal. If I can say, "BUT it's normally this outrageous price, and we're only paying this much less outrageous price", he'll usually go for it. So, my suggestion is to look for a good deal.

Edd
01-06-2010, 07:49 PM
You can't justify that price for 5 nights. That is an outrageous price. I hope there is 5 or 6 in your group, especially when you can get a 7 day cruise for 2 (balcony) on another cruise line for $2500.00.

Fatima1922
01-06-2010, 07:50 PM
I don't know your flexibility but maybe looking at a different time of year which maybe less expensive. I know it is hard when you have children in school but maybe you can look at Spring Break or here in NJ we have winter break in February. The only way I got my DH on a cruise was to just book and pay for a 3 night cruise in December. It was my treat. We had bad weather which I thought was a deal breaker on future cruises but he actually booked a 4 night cruise in March 2011.

lovethedream
01-06-2010, 08:24 PM
I've cruised with Disney before...almost 7 years ago and LOVED IT! I'm trying to talk my husband into sailing on the Dream in June 2011! He's having a hard time on the price. We are looking at a balcony room (he won't do anything else) and it's $5400 for 5 nights. He can't understand why it's so much when we just spent $2700 for 5 nights at Disney at the GF Club Level including Park Hoppers....
I've told him DCL is very different from others...we've done NCL and Princess. How do I talk him into this? I do agree DCL is much more than most lines, but it's Disney and isn't everything more with them anyway!?:confused3

We have sailed twice with DCL (Wonder) and once with RCCL FOTS. For us, we no longer have any problems paying the higher prices for Disney. Even if it takes us a little longer in between cruises to save up for it. It was the same for my in laws after sailing Carnival. We are all looking at Disney again for 2011. We just enjoyed the Disney cruise that much more.

It is a major drive to Florida for us to catch DCL while RCCL and Carnival have ships much much closer to where we live. So for us it is more than just the cost of the cruise. It is also the cost of getting there.

I will agree with one other poster that if you have to justify the price, you may have issues, but you won't know until you try it. Maybe trying a shorter cruise initially to help with the cost? Or going at another time.

For us, it is DCL all the way.

KYDIZFAN
01-06-2010, 08:32 PM
Disney doesn't have a casino, the enertainment is a major expense that doesn't produce revenue. Also over half of the passengers are not of legal drinking age thus cutting in to another revenue stream.

neenslovesdisney
01-06-2010, 08:41 PM
I agree with the previous posters, look for a better deal if you can be flexible about the dates. Disney cruises are definitely better than the rest imho! What I do with my hubby (who is notoriously cheap) is to tell him I found a cruise for x amount of dollars and then a few days later tell him I found the same cruise for half the price. Works every time and a little white lie never hurts anything. :lmao:

ThePedersonFamily
01-06-2010, 08:53 PM
OMG that does seem quite pricy! I'm going to have to agree with the previous posters...try different time frames. We are paying a couple hundred dollars less for the 14 night TransAtlantic cruise in Sept. We have a room with a window, not balcony, but on our last cruise my parents had the balcony room and found it to be a waste of money...so little time is actually spent in the room! We have been on the Magic for 2 week long cruises and both times we went in January and paid a little over $3000 for a family of 4. I can easily justify that when you factor in that all of our entertainment, food and childcare were included. Sounds cliche, but the memories you make are priceless!!

Goofy Mum
01-07-2010, 04:58 AM
The great thing about DCL is you can pay out your cruise over time so anyone can afford to go. :thumbsup2
For us. There's no way in the world I could have ever gotten a better deal anywhere and that's why we're going.
We took advantage of the kids sail free offer in May. 4 of us going, 10 nights on the Med for $1998 PLUS an extra $100 each OBC, plus the original $25 OBC I got when I booked online. No way could you get any vacation anywhere for that length of time all inclusive not to mention anything Disney! :cool1:

Goofy Mum
01-07-2010, 05:02 AM
I agree with the previous posters, look for a better deal if you can be flexible about the dates. Disney cruises are definitely better than the rest imho! What I do with my hubby (who is notoriously cheap) is to tell him I found a cruise for x amount of dollars and then a few days later tell him I found the same cruise for half the price. Works every time and a little white lie never hurts anything. :lmao:
LOL I love this!!! :thumbsup2 :rotfl2:

NancyIL
01-07-2010, 06:49 AM
That's a ridiculous amount of money to pay for a 5-night cruise to the BAHAMAS, and I DON'T think DCL is better than the rest! I don't know how many people you are cruising with, but $5400 would more than pay for the 12-night British Isles cruise for my 2 daughters and me on Princess this June!

Occasionally DCL has some good values, like the May 2010 Med cruises (in cat 12) that Goofy Mum mentioned. The Feb. 2011 4-night Dream cruise I booked was a little less expensive than the Dec. 2010 4-night Wonder cruise I was going to take - but I stay in the much less expensive inside cabins.

tchrmom
01-07-2010, 07:01 AM
We too were HUGE Disney fans.......and sailed her ships 9 times. However, once my kids were middle/high school.......we could not go in the affordable times. (October....etc) So.......that FORCED me (kicking and screaming) to try another line. We LOVE the Freedom class ships on RCCL. HOWEVER....my kids are older. The magic of seeing Mickey waving to us as we board is no longer there for them. I think you have to look at the age of your kids and remember that Disney "magic" needs to be calculated into the price of your trip. If my kids were young......I would take them out of school and go during a value season.....no questions asked.
I am sailing on The Freedom of the Seas on 6/13. I have 2 adjoining rooms (interior) for 4 people....7 day cruise.......$4125.00.
For us......that is a great deal.
Good Luck.....and enjoy your cruise! As the mother of a high school senior, I can tell you they sadly grow up WAY too quickly!

Goofy Mum
01-07-2010, 08:19 AM
As the mother of a high school senior, I can tell you they sadly grow up WAY too quickly!
Promise? My 14 year old son is nothing but a hairy, zitsy,hormonal mess who doesn't even speak to me anymore he just replies in a series of grunts! He refused to go on a Disney Cruise and opted to stay home. He told me if I make him go he'll just sit in the cabin playing his DS or watching TV (rolls eyes) so Im taking the younger ones and my husband is staying home with the troll. :lmao:
I love him dearly but I wish he would get over whatever it is he's going through! I have four sons and I hope they don't all follow in big brothers massive size 13 footsteps!

Sorry back to original topic...

lmhall2000
01-07-2010, 08:33 AM
I've cruised with Disney before...He's having a hard time on the price..... How do I talk him into this? :confused3

You've got a couple of issues, he wants his cake and eat it too...now there are a couple of ways to get around this. Travel off season, book the really amazing deals (they ARE out there) and forego the Dream (which is only a 5 night anyhow) and go for the better bargain on the Magic...we just got the same deal Goofy Mom got, we have 7 going and the 10 night cruise just cost 4k...plus we have over $1300 of OBC..we are going at a slower time for demand so chances will be more likely that we could upgrade before or at the port for a better cabin selection. It's a chance, but we would likely save over $10,000....so could I have talked myself into a $15,000 trip? No. But, am I flexible and willing to settle for an inside non verandah view for 1/4 that cost, sure..it's the Mediterranean!!! It's so port intensive that most days we'll be exploring Europe. If you're locked into sailing only the summer months when the majority of families can go, then those deals are much harder to find but they do come up.

Hope you find a way to make it happen! :)

Tara

Edd
01-07-2010, 08:37 AM
You might think about not imposing your preference on him when it comes to cruising. The Disney ship is not a lifer as there are to many other ships with a lot more new and exciting adventures aboard them. You might consider giving him a chance to climb a rock wall, go ice skating, ride a fantastic zip line, learn to surf or boogie board aboard a ship or play some competive basketball or dedgeball with his ages. The Disney ship is not a whole lot of fun for teenagers or those who are tired of the Disney. Fighting the kids and adults in the pool area is not a whole lot of fun. Remeber teens are not allowed in the adult area. Most teens his age are cruising on the other ships which provides better entertainment and excitement for teenagers.

Why don't you let the two that staying home cruise on another line and bring you back a report or just schedule a cruise, for the whole family getting them together, on one of the newer ships that offer many more things to do for everyone.

You might find out you can book a longer cruise and on a bigger ship for maybe half of what you pay to cruise Disney.

Anal Annie
01-07-2010, 08:41 AM
I say drop the balcony!! We have done both. Have you done both? Do you know how much time you're NOT out there?

Granted we have a rebooking discount to apply, but we have a 10 night Med cruise booked on the Magic for July 2011 for under $6K in a Cat 10 (no deals out yet for 2011). I DID price a balcony just to compare...$2K more! Ummm... NOT!! That's like 2 or 3 days worth of excursions!!

Sometimes cruising is like buying your first home. It's either not where you want, it's not as big as you want or it's neither...but it's your first.

orlandothebeagle
01-07-2010, 08:55 AM
Just tell him "thats the deal" LOL>:lmao:

But seriously, you dont need a balcony.

Rogillio
01-07-2010, 11:18 AM
It's just money. Is it worth it? Evidently the people who work for DCL think that enough people will think it is worth it. Some folks will pay for those rooms and enjoy the verrandah and others will not.

Our DCL Med Cruise in 2007 cost us $13,500 just for the cruise. Was it worth it? You better beleive it! The debt eventually got paid off and was forgotten but the memory will last till we die. As we get older and the memories start to fade, we'll pull up the 800 digitial pictures of the trip and remember some more.

Life is short. Swing for the fence!

~Mike

downtick
01-07-2010, 11:27 AM
We took advantage of the kids sail free offer in May. 4 of us going, 10 nights on the Med for $1998 PLUS an extra $100 each OBC, plus the original $25 OBC I got when I booked online. No way could you get any vacation anywhere for that length of time all inclusive not to mention anything Disney! :cool1:

maybe a dumb question, but I do know if you reside in europe and go on this cruise it is substantially less money, but the $1998 is per person or total? I got a super super low rate for the 3 of us on the may 5 10 night cruise.

NancyIL
01-07-2010, 11:32 AM
It's just money. Is it worth it? Evidently the people who work for DCL think that enough people will think it is worth it. Some folks will pay for those rooms and enjoy the verrandah and others will not.

Our DCL Med Cruise in 2007 cost us $13,500 just for the cruise. Was it worth it? You better beleive it! The debt eventually got paid off and was forgotten but the memory will last till we die. As we get older and the memories start to fade, we'll pull up the 800 digitial pictures of the trip and remember some more.

Life is short. Swing for the fence!

~Mike

I definitely value trip memories more than I value "stuff" - but I still wouldn't spend $5400 for a 5-night Bahamas cruise. You can make the same memories by cruising on the Dream in the spring or fall when cruises are much less expensive.

Buzz & Woody
01-07-2010, 11:32 AM
I could never justify paying that price for a cabin. You can get 2 weeks aboard another ship for that price! As much as I love Disney, there is no way that I could do that.

NancyIL
01-07-2010, 11:35 AM
maybe a dumb question, but I do know if you reside in europe and go on this cruise it is substantially less money, but the $1998 is per person or total? I got a super super low rate for the 3 of us on the may 5 10 night cruise.

Total. She got the kids sail free offer plus the $999/pp rate for the first two people by booking a cat. 12 cabin. I don't think the kids sail free can be combined with the cat. 12 on the 2010 Med cruises any longer.

downtick
01-07-2010, 11:39 AM
Total. She got the kids sail free offer plus the $999/pp rate for the first two people by booking a cat. 12 cabin. I don't think the kids sail free can be combined with the cat. 12 on the 2010 Med cruises any longer.

yes, but for the kids sail free, isn't 1 free child per 2 paying adults??..she stated that there is 4 of them total. you are right, about cat 12 not being available for this promotion. anyway, from what i understand, only 1 kid per 2 paying adults....is this right??? it gets confusing and get different answers depending on whom you speak with,

Goofy Mum
01-07-2010, 12:04 PM
I was able to book cat 12 GTY with the KFO offer. It's myself and my three sons. I had to pay for two adult fares at $999 each for myself and one of my sons. The other two boys were free. I did get a break on the taxes since I don't live in the USA but that was just about $100 off.

downtick
01-07-2010, 12:06 PM
It must be even 2 kids are free as long as 2 paying adults are in the same stateroom...was cat 12 ever even available for this offer? i have been looking now for about 1 month and have never even see cat 12 offered with the kids sail free....this 10 night cruise is looking pretty empty as of now, i guess all the cat 12's will be upgraded if the boat does not fill up, right? i know it is months away, but there sure does seem to be a LOT of inventory left!

downtick
01-07-2010, 12:08 PM
I was able to book cat 12 GTY with the KFO offer. It's myself and my three sons. I had to pay for two adult fares at $999 each for myself and one of my sons. The other two boys were free. I did get a break on the taxes since I don't live in the USA but that was just about $100 off.

wow, you got a HUGE deal, how long ago did you book? i have not seen the cat 12 offered for the kids sail free ever...the boat is looking pretty empty too, as of now, you are assured at least a cat 11, but i bet if things don't fill up, you will upgraded even more! and how did you get the $100 on board credit per person? i don't see that offer anywhere!

Goofy Mum
01-07-2010, 12:14 PM
It must be even 2 kids are free as long as 2 paying adults are in the same stateroom...was cat 12 ever even available for this offer? i have been looking now for about 1 month and have never even see cat 12 offered with the kids sail free....this 10 night cruise is looking pretty empty as of now, i guess all the cat 12's will be upgraded if the boat does not fill up, right? i know it is months away, but there sure does seem to be a LOT of inventory left!

It was totally a case of checking at exactly the right time. Originally I booked all 6 of us on the Dover/Barcelona cruise for July. Was going to cost us nearly $7000 but my teenage son decided against the cruise and my husband told me to take the little ones and go. So I went back my DCL reservation and looked for another cruise and just read there was a KFO offer. The first cruise I checked (May 5th) I got the total of $1998. I thought it had to be a mistake so I deleted everything and tried again and I got the same fare. So I called DCL and had them switch my deposit from the old cruise to the new cruise. So I was paid in full! There's a few others on here that were able to get the same deal however just for the heck of it I went back and checked a few days later and the cat 12 KFO offer was no longer there. I know the cruise isn't very full and since I booked I was given the $400 OBC. Any more discounts and DCL will actually be paying us! :lmao:

Goofy Mum
01-07-2010, 12:19 PM
wow, you got a HUGE deal, how long ago did you book? i have not seen the cat 12 offered for the kids sail free ever...the boat is looking pretty empty too, as of now, you are assured at least a cat 11, but i bet if things don't fill up, you will upgraded even more! and how did you get the $100 on board credit per person? i don't see that offer anywhere!

I just booked on 11/11/09. It was a spur of the moment decision. I came into a bit of money and wanted to take the family on a trip. I expected to pay about 5000 (about $7500) but I just stumbled into this deal. I was so shocked and chuffed at the same time. I havent stopped grinning in months. As far as the OBC go. A gal on our cruise told me she got a letter stating the $100 per person OBC but I didnt get one. So I called DCL and they told me I did get the credit but may not get the letter as I live in the UK but I definately got it. But I never saw it advertised anywhere. Also the original $25 OBC for when I booked. In fact only today I got my confirmation letter in the mail.

iwrbnd
01-07-2010, 12:20 PM
Hey Goofy Mum, I have 4 kids (3 of which are boys) and when my oldest was 14 I really thought I might kill him! :scared1:(Kidding, of course) He's 16 now and a completely different kid now. I always loved him but now I actually like him! Hang in there, it gets better! Our last 2 Disney trips he refused to go w/us and stayed w/grandparents. We're going this March and he wants to come along!!! I don't know what happens around 14 but I'm convinced there is some sort of brain dysfunction that happens! We always joked that his frontal lobe wasn't working!!:rotfl2: Anyway, it gets better! I say leave him at home and go on your cruise. There's nothing worse than a grumpy teen on a family vacation!:headache:

downtick
01-07-2010, 12:20 PM
ok, thanks for the follow up post..i will call DCL shortly and get the credit too, i will let you know! i also got a $50 OBC cause I paid with my disney visa, which was nice as well..i think i am asking for too much, but hey, why not?

Goofy Mum
01-07-2010, 12:24 PM
Hey Goofy Mum, I have 4 kids (3 of which are boys) and when my oldest was 14 I really thought I might kill him! :scared1:(Kidding, of course) He's 16 now and a completely different kid now. I always loved him but now I actually like him! Hang in there, it gets better! Our last 2 Disney trips he refused to go w/us and stayed w/grandparents. We're going this March and he wants to come along!!! I don't know what happens around 14 but I'm convinced there is some sort of brain dysfunction that happens! We always joked that his frontal lobe wasn't working!!:rotfl2: Anyway, it gets better! I say leave him at home and go on your cruise. There's nothing worse than a grumpy teen on a family vacation!:headache:

Thanks for your reply. Reading it nearly brought me to tears of relief its not just a problem with my son. I've been feeling like a bad mother for taking this trip without him! Even my mother has tried to make me feel guilty about going without him. It's not fair to the other kids however for them to have a nice holiday ruined because of their pain in the derriere brother!
Big hugs and many many thanks for your reply! :love:

Goofy Mum
01-07-2010, 12:26 PM
ok, thanks for the follow up post..i will call DCL shortly and get the credit too, i will let you know! i also got a $50 OBC cause I paid with my disney visa, which was nice as well..i think i am asking for too much, but hey, why not?

Great stuff. Are you confirmed on the same cruise? The May 5th Med?

NancyIL
01-07-2010, 12:32 PM
ok, thanks for the follow up post..i will call DCL shortly and get the credit too, i will let you know! i also got a $50 OBC cause I paid with my disney visa, which was nice as well..i think i am asking for too much, but hey, why not?
The $100/pp OBC was for people who booked the 2010 Europe cruises by a certain date in November. You can ask DCL for it, but I wouldn't expect to get it, if I were you.

downtick
01-07-2010, 01:26 PM
Great stuff. Are you confirmed on the same cruise? The May 5th Med?

yes, we are confirmed on same cruise. I got the cat 12 with KFO offer, but only after a hard time on the phone, but it worked out..As far as the $100 OBC offer, they said they will give it, but I need the promo code. As I do not have the letter, I do not have the code either. I will try and post in the main forum and see if someone will share the code they have. It is worth a try!

iwrbnd
01-07-2010, 02:28 PM
Goofy mum, I'm glad I could help! Don't feel guilty leaving your teen. I told myself Disney is way too expensive to spend it on somehow who doesn't appreciate it! They do come around eventually with enough love and support!

I have a 13 yr old boy and am scared to death to go through it again! :eek:I may need some support from you in a year or two when you're on the other end and I'm in the middle of it!

Goofy Mum
01-07-2010, 02:32 PM
Goofy mum, I'm glad I could help! Don't feel guilty leaving your teen. I told myself Disney is way too expensive to spend it on somehow who doesn't appreciate it! They do come around eventually with enough love and support!

I have a 13 yr old boy and am scared to death to go through it again! :eek:I may need some support from you in a year or two when you're on the other end and I'm in the middle of it!

Well it's support from one mom to another that keeps us from hanging ourselves with waxed dental floss! :lmao:

I have four sons. The next will be 12 in a few months. He's so kind, sweet and considerate I can't imagine him turning into a troll ;)

But they're all happy and loved so I guess I just have to let my teens come into their own and try not to nag too much. I'm lucky all things considered. They're all top students and have great friends. :thumbsup2

jestracker
01-08-2010, 10:29 AM
I agree. We have sailed with Disney 6 times now and have 2 more cruises planned with one of them on the maiden voyage of the Dream. Nothing but the best. It is just my husband and I , no kids, but we love the Disney "magic"; we have talked to other cruisers who have taken other cruise lines and they said to stick with Disney.

Anal Annie
01-08-2010, 10:49 AM
Perhaps I've missed it in previous posts, but has anybody mentioned that DCL consistently ranks in the top 10 (sometimes top 5) of the Conde Nast Traveler Polls? Out of all of the hundreds of ships out there the Magic & Wonder are always near the top of the surveys for customer satisfaction. I think this points again to you get what you pay for...:confused3

Edd
01-08-2010, 12:41 PM
Disney should rank high in Conde Nast. They advertise a lot in the magazine.

abdmom
01-08-2010, 01:49 PM
yes, we are confirmed on same cruise. I got the cat 12 with KFO offer, but only after a hard time on the phone, but it worked out..As far as the $100 OBC offer, they said they will give it, but I need the promo code. As I do not have the letter, I do not have the code either. I will try and post in the main forum and see if someone will share the code they have. It is worth a try!

If you are able to get a code, could you share it? I booked the 5/15 cruise in early December - too late to get the OBC letter.

Thanks

abdmom

lovethedream
01-08-2010, 08:42 PM
Perhaps I've missed it in previous posts, but has anybody mentioned that DCL consistently ranks in the top 10 (sometimes top 5) of the Conde Nast Traveler Polls? Out of all of the hundreds of ships out there the Magic & Wonder are always near the top of the surveys for customer satisfaction. I think this points again to you get what you pay for...:confused3

Went to the Conde Nast website to look for this poll you mentioned. Interesting to note that as of the time I looked at it, for large cruise ships, the Disney Wonder was rated number 1 (wow) on the list and the Disney Magic was rated number 4. The top 5 were dominated by Disney, Celebrity and Princess.

When the other two ships come out, maybe they will dominate the top 5 spots.

I did not see the Freedom of the Seas on the list, which showed the top 25. I was curious because I have been on that ship and I wanted to see what on average others thought.

Edd
01-08-2010, 11:05 PM
Keep this in mind when you check the poll. The distribution of the magazine is approximately 16,000 copies which is a small sample. I would guess their response to their poll would be around 15% of the magazine distribution or 2400 votes. The cruise lines in total have probably a base of 29 million passengers. Second off Disney advertises in Conde Nast and many of the others do not. It is kind of like the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval." If you don't advertise you don't get mentioned.

Anal Annie
01-09-2010, 07:41 AM
Keep this in mind when you check the poll. The distribution of the magazine is approximately 16,000 copies which is a small sample. I would guess their response to their poll would be around 15% of the magazine distribution or 2400 votes. The cruise lines in total have probably a base of 29 million passengers. Second off Disney advertises in Conde Nast and many of the others do not. It is kind of like the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval." If you don't advertise you don't get mentioned.

I am not sure what you have against that idea nor do I know how you know what the circluation is for Conde Nast. But I mean it IS a travel magazine so it would make SENSE for them to advertise there.:confused3 But regardless, I just picked up the closest copy I had to the top of the stack of magazines that I had in my magazine rack and I paged thru the entire copy. I found ads for Cunard Cruise Line, Princess Cruise Line, Viking River Cruise Line, Seabourn Cruise Line, a couple of Cruise TA's and a large spread for Disney PARKS but absolutely NO ads for DCL.:confused3 Oddly enough there were also ads for Hilton, Porsche, Mercedes, Samsonite, Dolce & Gabbana, Acura and the state of Texas....what should we interpret from those advertisers????

NancyIL
01-09-2010, 08:06 AM
I stopped getting Conde Nast Traveler because it was aimed at people who spend a lot more money on vacations than I do. I prefer Budget Travel and National Geographic Traveler. Having said that, I have no problem with Conde Nast's polls. DCL has beautiful ships, and they deserve the high ratings. That doesn't make me want to cruise exclusively with Disney, because their itineraries are pretty limited, their prices are generally more than I want to pay, and I'd rather not cruise with so many kids.

There are enough cruise lines that at least one should appeal to almost anyone who is willing to go on a cruise. I have sailed on 5 cruise lines, and I would repeat any of them again - depending on the itinerary and price.

lmhall2000
01-09-2010, 08:46 AM
If you are able to get a code, could you share it? I booked the 5/15 cruise in early December - too late to get the OBC letter.

Thanks

abdmom


Just to clarify, there is no code associated with the extra OBC, my letter simply states I'm getting it because I booked early...no mention of how early but others have said the cut off was booking by November. hth!

Tara

ruadisneyfan2
01-09-2010, 09:05 AM
I've cruised with Disney before...almost 7 years ago and LOVED IT! I'm trying to talk my husband into sailing on the Dream in June 2011! He's having a hard time on the price. We are looking at a balcony room (he won't do anything else) and it's $5400 for 5 nights. He can't understand why it's so much when we just spent $2700 for 5 nights at Disney at the GF Club Level including Park Hoppers....
I've told him DCL is very different from others...we've done NCL and Princess. How do I talk him into this? I do agree DCL is much more than most lines, but it's Disney and isn't everything more with them anyway!?:confused3
Sorry, I didn't read all 4 pages yet but your choices are very expensive. The 5 night cruises are especially popular. (ie: EXPENSIVE!) There are lots of other Dream cruises that are half that price.
We booked a 4 nt on the Dream Cat 8D (larger oceanview; 241 sq ft) in Nov. 2011 for only $1861.68, 2 ad, 1 teen, 1 child. This prices includes a 10% onboard booking discount so gen public would be a bit higher. Even with the 'necessary' balcony it's only $2284 on DCL's website. It's like paying $3116 for that 5th night! :sick:

I would try to compromise. That $5400 would be hard for me to swallow too!

ruadisneyfan2
01-09-2010, 10:29 AM
ok. Now that I've read the whole thing, it has gotten me wondering... Is there really THAT much demand for the 5 nt cruises? Really now, those prices are ridiculous.
Even if op didn't want her children to miss any school, she could still sail Aug. 12, 4 nt., with a balcony for $3104. Still makes that extra day cost $2296!:scared1: She could probably sail 7 nts b2b for price of a 5 nt.
I couldn't enjoy myself knowing I was being gouged like that. :sick:
jmho

Edd
01-09-2010, 02:11 PM
Conde Nast is a publishing company that owns about 20 other magazines. Conde-Nast Traveler is one of the magazines, also with the one of the lowest distribution. You did not mention you saw advertising by Royal Caribean, Carnival and NCL which are among the most popular cruise lines. Is that the reason those companies ships are not ranked. At the present time the three popular companies are phasing out ships built 10 to 15 years ago. Disney continues with the Magic and the Wonder which are over 10 years old and becoming obsolete. Ships don't last forever.

Royal Caribbean is the largest cruise line with about 25% of the cruise market. Carnival and NCL are also other very popular lines. If an unbiased poll were taken I would think that the lines that sell the most cruises would be in the mention somewhere. Especially the lines that have the biggest and newest ships loaded with the new adventures, great meals and great performances from the entertainment field. I don't include Disney in the above group. Didn't I see recently in a DCL thread that the Magic needed painting and repair in some of the public areas. That is the sign of aging.

ruadisneyfan2
01-09-2010, 03:07 PM
Carnival Corp. owns Cunard, Princess, Costa, Yachts of Seaborn, Holland America and others besides Carnival. All geared to different clientele. Carnival is the Walmart of cruising.

Lisa loves Pooh
01-09-2010, 06:14 PM
While I agree with your sentiment, OP--I personally feel that with the newness of certain itineraries and the new ships, that Disney--goes a bit overboard b/c they know people will by.

I have opted to not try and convince hubby anymore. I know what is a "fair Disney" price--and I will wait patiently for those to come (and for now, for our life to be more stable).

I would offer that you can try some due dilligence and shop different dates/itineraries to see if you can get something better, or even waiting until the Dream is a year or more old.

$1000/day for a cruise is obnoxious to me if you are only getting 1 cabin.

lovethedream
01-09-2010, 10:21 PM
Keep this in mind when you check the poll. The distribution of the magazine is approximately 16,000 copies which is a small sample. I would guess their response to their poll would be around 15% of the magazine distribution or 2400 votes. The cruise lines in total have probably a base of 29 million passengers. Second off Disney advertises in Conde Nast and many of the others do not. It is kind of like the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval." If you don't advertise you don't get mentioned.

The information I have on Conde Nast Traveler as far as distribution is concerned is approximately 800,000 per month. And that their poll appears to be one of the most respected in the industry. In addition, I did not see anything from RCCL as far as advertising was concerned, yet they are in the top 25 on the list. I read elsewhere that the poll is taken from approx 21000 responses, which is quite a few. However, I do not know if that was for everything they do, or just for the cruise line. Either way, DCL came out on top.

lovethedream
01-09-2010, 10:27 PM
I am not sure what you have against that idea nor do I know how you know what the circluation is for Conde Nast. But I mean it IS a travel magazine so it would make SENSE for them to advertise there.:confused3 But regardless, I just picked up the closest copy I had to the top of the stack of magazines that I had in my magazine rack and I paged thru the entire copy. I found ads for Cunard Cruise Line, Princess Cruise Line, Viking River Cruise Line, Seabourn Cruise Line, a couple of Cruise TA's and a large spread for Disney PARKS but absolutely NO ads for DCL.:confused3 Oddly enough there were also ads for Hilton, Porsche, Mercedes, Samsonite, Dolce & Gabbana, Acura and the state of Texas....what should we interpret from those advertisers????

The copy of conde nast that i have does have advertisement from DCL, but so what. There is advertising, and quite a nice spread, I might add, from another cruise line that is actually rated below several other RCCL ships, and I have yet to see any RCCL advertising in the magazine. The point is, in my opinion, this is a valid poll of cruisers. Nothing less.

lovethedream
01-09-2010, 10:41 PM
Conde Nast is a publishing company that owns about 20 other magazines. Conde-Nast Traveler is one of the magazines, also with the one of the lowest distribution. You did not mention you saw advertising by Royal Caribean, Carnival and NCL which are among the most popular cruise lines. Is that the reason those companies ships are not ranked. At the present time the three popular companies are phasing out ships built 10 to 15 years ago. Disney continues with the Magic and the Wonder which are over 10 years old and becoming obsolete. Ships don't last forever.

Royal Caribbean is the largest cruise line with about 25% of the cruise market. Carnival and NCL are also other very popular lines. If an unbiased poll were taken I would think that the lines that sell the most cruises would be in the mention somewhere. Especially the lines that have the biggest and newest ships loaded with the new adventures, great meals and great performances from the entertainment field. I don't include Disney in the above group. Didn't I see recently in a DCL thread that the Magic needed painting and repair in some of the public areas. That is the sign of aging.

But they are ranked. And above lines that do advertise with Conde Nast. Looking at the magazine now and skipped over to the poll and rankings.

When we were on the RCCL FOTS (and it's Maiden Voyage was in 2006), they had one guy chipping away at the rust on the railings and then painting over it, and one of the hot tubs seemed to be broken the majority of the trip, and this was all in the public areas, and that ship is newer than the DCL Wonder.

We will stick with Disney Cruise Lines (and my 10 year old ship), and the number one ranked cruise line according to a recent poll I read... I need to spend a little more time with it, but it did seem to me on the face of it that the latest and greatest ships did not seem to be ranked, or fared poorly in the polls. That it was the smaller and somewhat older ships that seemed to fare far better in the rankings.

Anal Annie
01-09-2010, 11:35 PM
Conde Nast is a publishing company that owns about 20 other magazines. Conde-Nast Traveler is one of the magazines, also with the one of the lowest distribution. You did not mention you saw advertising by Royal Caribean, Carnival and NCL which are among the most popular cruise lines. Is that the reason those companies ships are not ranked. At the present time the three popular companies are phasing out ships built 10 to 15 years ago. Disney continues with the Magic and the Wonder which are over 10 years old and becoming obsolete. Ships don't last forever.

Royal Caribbean is the largest cruise line with about 25% of the cruise market. Carnival and NCL are also other very popular lines. If an unbiased poll were taken I would think that the lines that sell the most cruises would be in the mention somewhere. Especially the lines that have the biggest and newest ships loaded with the new adventures, great meals and great performances from the entertainment field. I don't include Disney in the above group. Didn't I see recently in a DCL thread that the Magic needed painting and repair in some of the public areas. That is the sign of aging.

:sad2: I don't know who pissed in your Wheaties but I didn't mention them because they did not advertise in the issue that I happened to pick up. (Or are you referring to something else?) :confused3 I listed the only cruise lines which DID advertise in that particular issue. DCL did not advertise in that issue, and my point to that whole entire post was that you inferred that the reason DCL ranked so high in the Conde Nast poll was because of their advertising dollars. :confused3 I'm not seeing that relationship as demonstrated by the one issue that I happened to pick up this morning.

OP - my first post regarding this poll was a direct answer to your original question. YOU ASKED how you could convince your DH to sail on DCL again. I was simply pointing out that they consistently rank among the very top ships. Something you could research to use in your quest to demonstrate the perceived value of DCL to many other cruisers.

Disclaimer: This theory apparently does NOT meet with the approval of ALL DIS'ers.:goodvibes

Edd
01-10-2010, 12:07 PM
The only thing that gets a little water in my wheaties are the posts about the other lines that are complete fabrications. Rust on ships in salt water, I suppose Disney magic stops the Wonder and the Magic from rusting away. Crews are working on all ships keeping them in top shape 24/7, which includes scaping and painting. You might forget the Magic couldn't stop at Castaway Cay, a few years back, because the turbines were not putting out enough power to dock the ship. Not really sure of the problem but it existed until the Magic went to dry dock.

Productions shows are boring, I suppose the posters who think that have not matured enough to realize there are other things besides facticious characters and Disney stories, that make up life. Dancers wearing small or revealing outfits. Absolutely untrue as Dancers from age 4 on up wear the same costumes for any dancing shows, including recitals. I bought costumes for the schools for many years. Maybe some of those who make such statements should look at themselves and how they satisfy their spouse before they try to restrict somone's enjoyment of the arts.

Drunks running around the ship making noises and keeping you awake. I laugh because Disney is the only ship that allows you to take on all the alcohol beverages you want. They have drunks on their ships too. One thing they actually have more of and that is the kids. How many times doe you see dedicated security people on the Disney, I never saw any, but I do see them on the RCCL and their job is dedicated to security only. Actually I saw some on the Carnival, but not as many as I see on the RCCL's.

Disney has the best kids clubs. Well, ask any kid what they think about the kids clubs. Many do not like them as much as it is written. Several families have mentioned their kids do not use the clubs. Maybe for babies it is good. The other cruise lines have the same kids and many kids enjoy those clubs more. The agenda for teens just isn't there on the Disney. Head to the stack and sit around talking. Some threads have spoken to that and said their teens don't want to go back on the DCL.

IMHO Disney lacks in the current trends of the cruising market. The most important poll should be the poll of market share. It is hard to knock a company that holds 24% of the market. They have something good going for them. With two ships over 10 years old, Disney is not going to gain much of the market in 2010.

So why is Disney so top rated by some polls? Basically it is because they spend so much money advertising their venue. I cannot see the advantage the DCL has over most of the other cruise companies because there are some great ships out there, that offer much more and charge less for cruises, that don't have the Disney name. Most statements that are derogatory of the other cruise lines are those who have only cruised DCL. Those statements should have the weight of a grain of salt. Many I see seem to make me think they come from immature or bigotted thinking.

I love those that just seem to think they know what they are talking about.

ruadisneyfan2
01-10-2010, 12:40 PM
The only thing that gets a little water in my wheaties are the posts about the other lines that are complete fabrications. Rust on ships in salt water, I suppose Disney magic stops the Wonder and the Magic from rusting away. Crews are working on all ships keeping them in top shape 24/7, which includes scaping and painting. You might forget the Magic couldn't stop at Castaway Cay, a few years back, because the turbines were not putting out enough power to dock the ship. Not really sure of the problem but it existed until the Magic went to dry dock.

Productions shows are boring, I suppose the posters who think that have not matured enough to realize there are other things besides facticious characters and Disney stories, that make up life. Dancers wearing small or revealing outfits. Absolutely untrue as Dancers from age 4 on up wear the same costumes for any dancing shows, including recitals. I bought costumes for the schools for many years. Maybe some of those who make such statements should look at themselves and how they satisfy their spouse before they try to restrict somone's enjoyment of the arts.

Drunks running around the ship making noises and keeping you awake. I laugh because Disney is the only ship that allows you to take on all the alcohol beverages you want. They have drunks on their ships too. One thing they actually have more of and that is the kids. How many times doe you see dedicated security people on the Disney, I never saw any, but I do see them on the RCCL and their job is dedicated to security only. Actually I saw some on the Carnival, but not as many as I see on the RCCL's.

Disney has the best kids clubs. Well, ask any kid what they think about the kids clubs. Many do not like them as much as it is written. Several families have mentioned their kids do not use the clubs. Maybe for babies it is good. The other cruise lines have the same kids and many kids enjoy those clubs more. The agenda for teens just isn't there on the Disney. Head to the stack and sit around talking. Some threads have spoken to that and said their teens don't want to go back on the DCL.

IMHO Disney lacks in the current trends of the cruising market. The most important poll should be the poll of market share. It is hard to knock a company that holds 24% of the market. They have something good going for them. With two ships over 10 years old, Disney is not going to gain much of the market in 2010.

So why is Disney so top rated by some polls? Basically it is because they spend so much money advertising their venue. I cannot see the advantage the DCL has over most of the other cruise companies because there are some great ships out there, that offer much more and charge less for cruises, that don't have the Disney name. Most statements that are derogatory of the other cruise lines are those who have only cruised DCL. Those statements should have the weight of a grain of salt. Many I see seem to make me think they come from immature or bigotted thinking.

I love those that just seem to think they know what they are talking about.

Edd, respectfully, if Disney stories and characters are for immature people, then why do you belong to the Disboards? You are surrounded by people who love Disney for various reasons. It's our love of Disney that brought us here and keeps us here. If you don't love Disney, why come?

I've sailed Carnival 3x and RCCL 2x so I'm not oblivious to making comparisons. I still prefer DCL and am just as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.
If you want to open people's eyes to other cruise lines, it would sound much more polite to simply remind people that this board, being the DISBOARDS, is not as objective as say, cruisecritic.com, at giving objective comparisons between cruise lines.
To come on a DCL board and start name calling because we all like DCL is wrong. Why do you come here then, besides to stir up trouble?
If you don't like what you watch on TV, you change the channel right? Or do you tell your neighbor that they're morons for watching a show you don't like? :sad2:

Edd
01-10-2010, 01:51 PM
Your comments are well taken. I don't necessarily live for Disney and I appreciate those who do. My comments are directed to those who feel they are doing Disney justice by stretching the truth about certain subjects to sway someone else's choice.

As you can see I feel that there are three great cruise lines located in Port Canaveral. I don't care who you favor, but I do care what someone writes about them, anyone of them. I call the ones who continue to make those statements immature and stand on that. If someone said something that was not true with Disney I would also comment about that, however I don't see that on these boards.

NancyIL
01-10-2010, 02:25 PM
I cannot see the advantage the DCL has over most of the other cruise companies because there are some great ships out there, that offer much more and charge less for cruises, that don't have the Disney name. Most statements that are derogatory of the other cruise lines are those who have only cruised DCL. Those statements should have the weight of a grain of salt. Many I see seem to make me think they come from immature or bigotted thinking.

I love those that just seem to think they know what they are talking about.

Edd - you need to step away from the Disney Cruise Line boards for awhile! You are taking some people's comments about DCL vs. other cruise lines way too personally. Your arguments aren't going to convince people that cruising with Disney is a waste of money, or that Royal Caribbean's Freedom-class ships are THE best ships out there. Yes, there are a lot of great cruise ships out there, including some older ships (like Monarch of the Seas - 6 years older than the Magic) that don't have the bells and whistles of RCI's newer ships.

I have cruised with Royal Caribbean more than any other cruise line, so I obviously like it. I also like Princess, Holland America, Celebrity, and Disney. Different cruise lines appeal to different people, and there's room for DCL lovers as well as RCI lovers!

ruadisneyfan2
01-10-2010, 03:10 PM
Your comments are well taken. I don't necessarily live for Disney and I appreciate those who do. My comments are directed to those who feel they are doing Disney justice by stretching the truth about certain subjects to sway someone else's choice.

As you can see I feel that there are three great cruise lines located in Port Canaveral. I don't care who you favor, but I do care what someone writes about them, anyone of them. I call the ones who continue to make those statements immature and stand on that. If someone said something that was not true with Disney I would also comment about that, however I don't see that on these boards.

Why limit yourself to sailing out of PC? I've also sailed out of Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa and Bayonne, NJ. It's all good. :goodvibes

ruadisneyfan2
01-10-2010, 03:54 PM
This is not the same itinerary so I realize it's not comparing apples to apples with OP's price but I just priced out the Explorer of the Seas, 5 nt cruise to Bermuda for 6/19/10. 2 ad, 2 children with a balcony is over $5200. Cheapest inside is just under $4K. This is around the same price as June 09 when we did this cruise. No stops at a private island.
Their inside staterooms are only 160 sq ft so for a little more, we got 2 connecting inside rooms.

I could only choke this down knowing we didn't have to pay for airfare and it was for a dear friend's (our best man's) birthday celebration. This was the cruise he chose so we let him but we have gotten way better deals sailing out of FL, even with the cost of airfare.

Anyhoo, while we enjoyed the ice show and skating rink, the rock climbing wall was closed more than half the time and when it was open the line was so long, my kids didn't feel like waiting an hour to do it.
A big turn off for me was that you have to sign out pool/beach towels with your key and get charged $20 per towel if not returned. I felt like I was nagging my kids half the trip about their towel location. Carnival does this too so DCL was a welcome change to just toss them in the hamper and not worry about it.
There was a cool kid's slide at the far aft part of the ship that was closed the entire cruise with no explanation at all.

Just for the sake of comparison, I priced FOS for same Halloween weekend sailing as the one we're doing on the Magic. Same cabin choice, window on deck 2, FOS is $90 less than our onboard booking price on the Magic.

My point is, DCL isn't sooo much more than other cruise lines.

NancyIL
01-10-2010, 04:09 PM
This is not the same itinerary so I realize it's not comparing apples to apples with OP's price but I just priced out the Explorer of the Seas, 5 nt cruise to Bermuda for 6/19/10. 2 ad, 2 children with a balcony is over $5200. Cheapest inside is just under $4K. This is around the same price as June 09 when we did this cruise. No stops at a private island.
Their inside staterooms are only 160 sq ft so for a little more, we got 2 connecting inside rooms.

I could only choke this down knowing we didn't have to pay for airfare and it was for a dear friend's (our best man's) birthday celebration. This was the cruise he chose so we let him but we have gotten way better deals sailing out of FL, even with the cost of airfare.

Anyhoo, while we enjoyed the ice show and skating rink, the rock climbing wall was closed more than half the time and when it was open the line was so long, my kids didn't feel like waiting an hour to do it.
A big turn off for me was that you have to sign out pool/beach towels with your key and get charged $20 per towel if not returned. I felt like I was nagging my kids half the trip about their towel location. Carnival does this too so DCL was a welcome change to just toss them in the hamper and not worry about it.
There was a cool kid's slide at the far aft part of the ship that was closed the entire cruise with no explanation at all.

Just for the sake of comparison, I priced FOS for same Halloween weekend sailing as the one we're doing on the Magic. Same cabin choice, window on deck 2, FOS is $90 less than our onboard booking price on the Magic.

My point is, DCL isn't sooo much more than other cruise lines.

I agree that Bermuda cruises are pricey. I was on a Grandeur of the Seas repositioning cruise last April from San Juan to Norfolk, VA. Its last port stop was King's Wharf, Bermuda, in addition to St. Thomas, Tortola, and St. Maarten. The senior rate for our inside cabin was $399/pp (my older sister was the senior ;)), and that was less expensive than the 5-night cruises from the east coast that spend only 2 days in Bermuda.

I pointed out in a thread here several months ago that a January 2011 western Caribbean cruise on the Magic (for my family of 5 in 2 inside cabins) would cost a little less than the same cruise on Freedom of the Seas - which Edd found hard to believe. DCL can be comparably priced to its competition, and I think we'll see even more of that as DCL's fleet expands.

ruadisneyfan2
01-10-2010, 04:36 PM
It seems DCL's biggest price jump is going from window to balcony. Every time of think of splurging on a balcony, it's $800 more than a window for a 7 nt. cruise. I can't help but think, 'That's our airfare.' and would I feel like I'm getting $800 worth from that balcony?
So we stick with the window and be thankful for that.

Tink&SquirtsMom
01-10-2010, 05:42 PM
I pointed out in a thread here several months ago that a January 2011 western Caribbean cruise on the Magic (for my family of 5 in 2 inside cabins) would cost a little less than the same cruise on Freedom of the Seas - which Edd found hard to believe. DCL can be comparably priced to its competition, and I think we'll see even more of that as DCL's fleet expands.

Pricewise, I don't find them quite as far apart as some people do either. Taking 2 adults and 3 kids, and two interior rooms I priced a few different itineraries on RCCL. Vision class 5 night is around $3200 ($128 pp, per night). Freedom class (which I would guess is closest to the Dream) is around $4800 for 7 night ($137 pp, per night). Compared to a 5 night Disney Dream for around $3600 ($144 pp, per night). If I include the OBC the Dream price is down to $138 pp, per night. We chose the Dream.

Admittedly, my prices are not apples to apples as the itineraries are very different and given RCCL pricing is for early June 2010 and Disney is early June 2011, this is because June 2011 pricing is only out for the Oasis ships (considerably more), but it gives me a good idea of what I am looking at (and so far 2011 RCCL pricing that has been released looks to be consistent with the pricing for the same week in 2010).

As a side note: we have been on both DCL and RCCL Freedom class and love them both. A great vacation can be had on either. In our opinon (which is just that, only opinion) RCCL wins on food, pools, ship activities and nightlife. DCL wins on kids clubs and kids activities, spa experience (rainforest room and spa villas), decor, shows, and some comfort factors which just make the overall experience nice (kids more effectively kept from adult areas, not having to check out towels, free sodas, etc).

Tink&SquirtsMom
01-10-2010, 06:47 PM
I pointed out in a thread here several months ago that a January 2011 western Caribbean cruise on the Magic (for my family of 5 in 2 inside cabins) would cost a little less than the same cruise on Freedom of the Seas - which Edd found hard to believe. DCL can be comparably priced to its competition, and I think we'll see even more of that as DCL's fleet expands.

Pricewise, I don't find them quite as far apart as some people do either. Taking 2 adults and 3 kids, and two interior rooms I priced a few different itineraries on RCCL. Vision class 5 night is around $3200 ($128 pp, per night). Freedom class (which I would guess is closest to the Dream) is around $4800 for 7 night ($137 pp, per night). Compared to a 5 night Disney Dream for around $3600 ($144 pp, per night). If I include the OBC the Dream price is down to $138 pp, per night. We chose the Dream.

Admittedly, my prices are not apples to apples as the itineraries are very different and given RCCL pricing is for early June 2010 and Disney is early June 2011, this is because June 2011 pricing is only out for the Oasis ships (considerably more), but it gives me a good idea of what I am looking at (and so far 2011 RCCL pricing that has been released looks to be consistent with the pricing for the same week in 2010).

As a side note: we have been on both DCL and RCCL Freedom class and love them both. A great vacation can be had on either. In our opinon (which is just that, only opinion) RCCL wins on food, pools, ship activities and nightlife. DCL wins on kids clubs and kids activities, spa experience (rainforest room and spa villas), decor, shows, and some comfort factors which just make the overall experience nice (kids more effectively kept from adult areas, not having to check out towels, free sodas, etc).