Why do you need so many more points to stay at WLV? [Archive] - The DIS Discussion Forums

CarolMN

07-23-2002, 01:33 PM

The points needed for VWL are the same as are required for the BCV and the BWV preferred. Most of the rooms (more than 80%)at BWV are preferred. If you are planning to rent a standard view room, be sure to find a BWV owner to make the ressie for you at the 11 month window. Standard view rooms tend to book very quickly.

I really don't know why Disney increased the point requirements for the WDW resorts built after OKW. Probably because they could! :D .

The standard views at BWV are something of an aberration. From what I've read, there were so many complaints about the "parking lot/entrance views" early on in the selling process that Disney established the two tier system. I'm kind of glad they did as we actually prefer the standard view to most of the preferred views. I doubt they will ever do something like this again - it's more difficult (costly) to manage a two tier system than a one tier system.

Enjoy your trip!

dianeschlicht

07-23-2002, 02:23 PM

I think the real reason is straight economics. BWV, WLV, and BCV were done quite awhile after the first DVC units in OKW. I think economics is what made them change the points schedule and also made them go to the more hotel type settings because they are less expensive to build and maintain.

nuthut

07-23-2002, 02:38 PM

A someone else has said, VWL rooms are 25% smaller than OKW and the points are 25% more. The taxes are 25% more too. You can not fit more than 1 1/2 persons in the kitchen and no more than three can eat at once. Why stay any where but OKW?

Mouse Ears

07-23-2002, 02:41 PM

Diane, I agree that Economics play a large part in the point disparity. It's all about supply and demand.

But, I'm not so sure that your statement about the 'hotel type setting' is correct. If it is, then why are all of the budget and moderates 'motel type' while all of the deluxe hotels are 'hotel type'? :confused:

I don't actually know about relative building costs, but this struck me funny.

:earsboy: M.E.

KJal1

07-23-2002, 03:06 PM

I was curious because I've read complaints about WLV (transportation and smaller room size) but I really wanted to stay there. But OKW looks huge in comparison and you need much less points. I don't think we'll be staying at BWV though because I've found more people with points for the others, and it seems that everyone wants a BWV. I think we'll probably end up at WLV, will it truly accomodate 4 adults and 1 child (8) though? Now I'm worried that we'll be cramped if you can only fit 3 people in the dining area at one time. Not that I'm expecting a house, just a little more than 2 regular hotel type rooms. We're staying at the Poly for 2 nights already!! :D

SleepyatDVC

07-23-2002, 03:22 PM

Nuthut,

Personally, I agree that OKW gives you the most space for the least $$$. I love OKW.

But preference in a DVC resort is a SUBJECTIVE thing. So, the value & beauty of OKW may not appeal to all. Location and convenience come at a premium and some people are willing to pay more for it even though they also get less space.

I would love to live in Manhattan. But my 4 bedroom, 2 bath apartment in the Bronx would cost what? $5-6K/month in the city? A one bedroom is around $3K/month!!! :eek: So, DH commutes by train to work in Midtown every day. As DH points out to me almost daily, if we moved elsewhere in the country (TX, FL, etc.), we could buy a 5 bedroom/3 bath house with a pool for under $350K. Meanwhile, in the Tri-state area, that type of house would be closer to $1 mil. Ahhh, the guilt for wanting to be close to MY parents... :rolleyes:

Sorry for rambling... where was I? Oh yeah, each DVC resort is different. And they are advantages & disadvantages to all of them. Each member has to decide what they consider the most important to them. That's what's so great about the program. For many people, less space and "25%" more maintenance is a fair trade-off for location and entertainment convenience. For others, the spaciousness, beauty, and parking convenience of OKW is supplemented by lower dues!!! ;)

As long as everyone is happy with his/her PREFERENCE, then to each his own...

CarolMN

07-23-2002, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by KJal1
...(snip)..I think we'll probably end up at WLV, will it truly accomodate 4 adults and 1 child (8) though? Now I'm worried that we'll be cramped if you can only fit 3 people in the dining area at one time. Not that I'm expecting a house, just a little more than 2 regular hotel type rooms. We're staying at the Poly for 2 nights already!! :D

While it is true that the OKW units are larger, your party of 5 will fit in the VWL 2 bedroom just fine. Don't worry. We fit 5 adults around the table at BWV (same size units as VWL) without a problem. Just brought in one of the balcony chairs. You'd have to do that at OKW as well - there are only 4 dining chairs in all of the 1 & 2 bedroom DVC units.

The good news is that both OKW and VWL are beautiful resorts and you will be impressed and have a good time no matter which you choose. Stay at the one that interests you the most and try not to second guess yourself after the ressie is made!

DeeP

07-23-2002, 04:35 PM

Just for the record the only unit at OKW that is substanially larger than the other DVC resorts is the 1 BR. The studio and the GV is only very slightly larger no where near 25% larger!
The dues are not 25% higher at the other DVC resorts vs OKW either, for dues difference between OKW and BWV it is a difference of $0.20 more per point which is $60.00 more per year for a 300 pt contract. This is the present rate, OKW or BWV dues could go up or down making the difference even less or more.

The 25% larger, 25% lower yada yada line was a figment of someone's imagination that got posted over and over and over etc, but it is not true.

5 people will fit very nicely in a 2 br in VWL and if the kitchen only fits 1 1/2 people then who ever said that must be talking about VERY large people because this is also not true. VWL is a beautiful resort in a wonderful location, I am sure you will have a wonderful trip.

Not everything you read on these boards is always 100% the truth.

KJal1

07-23-2002, 05:28 PM

However, I think this is making my decision even harder. They both look like beautiful resorts. I'll be making my decision within the next day, hopefully! And I will NOT second guess it(who am I kidding, of course I will). And anyway there's always the next trip, right???;)

BenStone

07-23-2002, 10:40 PM

Hmmmm.

The dues are not 25% higher at the other DVC resorts vs OKW either, for dues difference between OKW and BWV it is a difference of $0.20 more per point 2002 Dues at OKW are $3.22/pt. BWV dues are $3.93/pt. That's quite a bit more than $.20/pt. For the mathmatically challenged, that's 22% higher.Not everything you read on these boards is always 100% the truth. At least that statement is correct.

BenStone

troosvelt

07-23-2002, 10:48 PM

Come on now people, OKWR isn't that good, in fact some current members really ought to be smart and sell out <G>.

Seriously, its a great resort, and as a 'in the planning stages' DVC resale buyer I'm looking to OKW for sure.

I just don't want too many people to figure out the secret <G>

trishy

07-24-2002, 03:28 AM

Another opinion on VWL is the 2 bedroom is a dedicated 2 br unlike the BWV - there are 2 queens in the 2nd bedroom. BWV has the 1 br attached to the studio so the "2nd bedroom" has the queen with a pull out couch. I'd be willing to pay the same for std rooms as the VWL if they would make some of those 2 br like the VWL. My girls fight over who gets the "real" bed - those pull outs are gross. OKW is just a terrific place at a great value - the 2 bedrooms are actually 2 bedrooms (imagine that). We loved VWL - can't wait to go back.

Disclaimer: Not knocking BWV - love it, happy owner, great location, ..... just want them to make 2 bedroom units that have the 2 queens in the extra bedroom.

Richyams

07-24-2002, 05:21 AM

BWV dues have been more than 30% higher in the past.

The One bedroom unit at OKW is 40% larger.

The Two bedroom unit at OKW is more than 30% larger.

The studios and grand villas are more than 10% larger.

Saying that the units are 25% larger at OKW is a very reasonable statement.

Don't forget, the points are 25-100% higher per night for those tiny rooms.

I agree, I am not being completely accurate when I say that this makes BWV room 75% higher dues per sq ft per night......it looks like a more accurate statement, averaging everything out would be, BWV rooms cost more than 100%(that's double) more than OKW rooms in dues per sq ft per night.

Thanks for clearing that up.

dianeschlicht

07-24-2002, 06:03 AM

Mouse ears,
When I said hotel like setting, I didn't mean as opposed to a motel. I meant as opposed to a townhouse setting like OKW.

Lisa F

07-24-2002, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by CarolMN

While it is true that the OKW units are larger, your party of 5 will fit in the VWL 2 bedroom just fine. Don't worry. We fit 5 adults around the table at BWV (same size units as VWL) without a problem. Just brought in one of the balcony chairs. You'd have to do that at OKW as well - there are only 4 dining chairs in all of the 1 & 2 bedroom DVC units.

Don't forget the regular chairs around the table in the studio part of the 2 bedroom. There are a total of 6 "inside" chairs in a 2br anywhere... 2 for the dining table, 2 for the breakfast bar, 2 in the 2nd bedroom.

I personally think that the only time the size might make any kind of a difference is if you are approaching capacity in these units. A 2 bedroom for 5 people is downright luxurious at any resort.

Lisa

DeeP

07-24-2002, 08:04 AM

Sorry, I made a mistake and I can admit when I make a mistake. The OKW dues are $0.70 less than BWV or $210.00 more per year for a 300 pt contract at BWV vs OKW.
The % given for the difference in room sizes is still high if I am not mistaken and how the pt difference is 100% more when you compare a standard view at BWV or take into consideration different pt schedules for different times of the year is also not accurate.
HOWEVER.................
I am done playing in these childish games of mine is bigger than yours. Ben and Rich you are more than welcome to stay in your sandbox and fight with whomever dares disagree with you and you can shout about bigger, lower, etc, etc, and hurl insults at others, put down all other DVC resorts etc., till you turn blue in the face. I have more important things to do with my time. I left the playground and the sandbox many years ago and I certainly do not wish to go back especially with the likes of you.
Enjoy boys!

KJal1

07-24-2002, 08:08 AM

Well...we chose OKW!! BWV would have been nice but I needed to make a decision now (can't wait until they become available). WLV are absolutely beautiful but I, personally wanted a different theme (other than "Lodge") after staying at AKL, which was also great!!! OKW is bigger too and after spending two vacations (only 3 nights each, non-Disney) within the past three years in the same room (supposed to be efficiency units that can accomodate 5, yeah right!!!!!) with my parents we need larger accomodations. Especially seeing that this is their first WDW vacation in almost 15 years!
I think we made the right decision for this trip. Next time when it's just myself, DH and DS we'll stay at WLV (definitely)!
Thanks again!!!!!!

:D

dianeschlicht

07-24-2002, 08:12 AM

You wont be sorry. I love the convenience of parking outside your door and having what looks like a vacation home instead of an apartment.

Steve BW99

07-24-2002, 08:17 AM

There is a reason OKW is the easiest resort to book at the 7 month window. This resort has the least demand even with the lower point schedule. OKW has a minority of units (34%) and a minority of members so demand should be high for rooms here. (For the logic behind this see a recent thread on the future gems of DVC, HH and Vero.) Now onto the question.

There are several reasons the three resorts share a higher point schedule. The first and biggest reason is they can. After the initial and unexpected high success of OKW DVC realized the point per night was schedule was too low. They could charge more and still maintain a high demand. This increase has not slowed demand, proven by the sales at WLV and BCV outselling predictions.

The second reason is location and local amenities. OKW remains the only on World resort not near a park. BWV and BCV have the benefit of being close to two parks and the Boardwalk. These resorts have pool slides and more themed pools. They have more restaurants on site. They have better transportation options.

The third reason is to keep points in line with cash prices for the rooms. There is a difference between the cash prices for BCV and BWV vs. WLV but not as dramatic as the difference with OKW.

There are other minor reasons as well but I believe DVC’s main motive in setting the points schedule is to maximize profit.

Tagrel

07-24-2002, 08:34 AM

I happen to love all the DVC resorts for various reasons.

If I want Spa services nearby, room service, several restaurant choices, themed pools with slides, boats to one or two parks (which are GREAT with strollers) or even in some cases the ability to walk to the park - I would choose BWV, VWL or BCV. These features are missing from OKW.

OKW is a beautiful resort, with more space, cheaper point costs and easier availablity (for better luck at those last minute reservations).

We each pick our personal needs and make an educated choice.

I tend to just try to ignore the blantently bias posts, since they typically contain little real information I can rely on.

MarkRG

07-24-2002, 09:01 AM

I was going to comment on how this has turned into yet another mine is better than yours thread, but Tagrel has the answer right on. NONE of them are better than any other. Each has its strengths and each has its weaknesses. Depends on what you want from it. We specifically picked BWV because we wanted the direct access to Epcot and the strength of transportation that BWV has with being able to use buses and boats or feet to MGM & Epcot, to be able to walk to the Epcot monorail and go that way to the MK resort area if we want, and have done.

If you want the 'vacation home' atmosphere, and the remoteness from the parks doesn't bother you, or you're part of the party crowd(being it's quite close to Downtown Disney), or you like golf, then OKW is probably for you.

If you enjoy the theming, want to be close to MK and want the unique atmosphere that The Wilderness Lodge has, then of course, VWL is for you.

A final note would be I don't have any care about the numbers of one resort vs the other, as I know I'm getting more out of being in DVC than just going with regular resort rooms, and that' s enough for me.

All have pluses and minuses. I could go on a lot longer, but I know I'm boring you all now :)

BenStone

07-24-2002, 11:22 AM

Where have all the math skills gone?OKW has a minority of units (34%) and a minority of members so demand should be high for rooms here. I'm under the assumption that we are discussing the "on site" DVC properties. If so, OKW is by far and away the largest resort. 30% more rooms than BWV, 139% larger than BCV and a whopping 265% larger than VWL.

Cumulatively, OKW comprises 41% of the available "on site" DVC space while BWV is 30%. The BCV comes in at a distand third with 17% and VWL pulls up the rear with 11%.

So, as one can see, when taken individually or as a group, OKW essentially rules the roost. There are other minor reasons as well but I believe DVC’s main motive in setting the points schedule is to maximize profit. By examining the smaller room sizes, higher point schedules and current buy in amounts at the "hotel resorts" that is patently obvious.

BenStone

WDWalways

07-24-2002, 12:48 PM

At first, I thought it was a bit odd also that points were not the same for all 4 WDW properties but it seems to vary upon season. For example: When I looked into how many points were needed for 7nts (checkin and out on Saturday) for this Oct. '02 it was 87 at BWV (all studios BTW), 82 at OKW and 106 each at VWL and BCV. I figured it's because they are the 2 newest and (Disney's thinking IMO) because they are the newest they would be more preferred so the points are higher BUT I looked into how many points for 4 nights next Sept. '03 (checkin Sat. checkout Weds.) again all studios and they were all 58 points except OKW was 44 so I don't get it.:confused: :rolleyes:

CarolMN

07-24-2002, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by WDWalways
At first, I thought it was a bit odd also that points were not the same for all 4 WDW properties but it seems to vary upon season. For example: When I looked into how many points were needed for 7nts (checkin and out on Saturday) for this Oct. '02 it was 87 at BWV (all studios BTW), 82 at OKW and 106 each at VWL and BCV. I figured it's because they are the 2 newest and (Disney's thinking IMO) because they are the newest they would be more preferred so the points are higher BUT I looked into how many points for 4 nights next Sept. '03 (checkin Sat. checkout Weds.) again all studios and they were all 58 points except OKW was 44 so I don't get it.:confused: :rolleyes:

FWIW, it's only the STANDARD VIEW studios at BWV that are 87 points for the week. Preferred view studios, which make up more than 80% of the studios available at BWV, are 106 points for the week. That is the same as at VWL and BCV.

For your September example, a standard view studio at BWV would be 47 points. The preferred view BWV studio is 58 points (which again, is the same as VWL & BCV).

BWV preferred views (slightly more than 80% of the rooms) are the same number of points as the rooms at VWL & BCV. Standard view rooms at BWV are usually just a few points more than the rooms at OKW.

Steve BW99

07-24-2002, 02:00 PM

Well BenStone, First you ADD all the units at the resorts (1525, according to previous posts). Second you DIVIDE the number of units at OKW (531) by the first number. This is called a PERCENT.

mb168

07-24-2002, 02:16 PM

I just spent 3 nights at VWL in a 2 BR with 8 people. My wife and I were in the main BR with a King. 3 and 6 yr old on the pull out in the living room. My parents were in the other room with my sister and 5 yr old son on the two queens. There was plenty of space onc the sofa was folded back up and having two real beds in the other room was a BIG plus to having a studio joined with a queen and queen pull out. The kitchen is a 2 person kitchen. 3 would definitely be a crowd.

I happen to be buying a resale through Timeshare store but dont think I'll be able to use it Labor day weekend so I'll be paying $$$ for a 1 BR at OKW to check out these huge rooms I keep hearing about. I got a card in the mail with a code for Aug-Oct discounts and Fri-Mon(3 nights) at OKW was only $663 including taxes. Checking the prices on Disney's site it would have been about $900+.

Peterd

07-24-2002, 05:41 PM

"I am done playing in these childish games of mine is bigger than yours. Ben and Rich you are more than welcome to stay in your sandbox and fight with whomever dares disagree with you and you can shout about bigger, lower, etc, etc, and hurl insults at others, put down all other DVC resorts etc., till you turn blue in the face. I have more important things to do with my time. I left the playground and the sandbox many years ago and I certainly do not wish to go back especially with the likes of you.
Enjoy boys"

Couldn't agree with you more Dee.

:D

TheWho

07-24-2002, 06:06 PM

Staying at OKW with "large" rooms and nothing to do: low points

Staying at BWV/BCV within walking distance to EPCOT/MGM: priceless

Staying at WLV within a quick boat to MK: priceless

You get what you pay for!!;)

BenStone

07-24-2002, 08:38 PM

To borrow a line from one of our previous posters....Sorry, I made a mistake and I can admit when I make a mistake. Well, it looks as if BenStone made a mistake and he's going to make it right. This however comes with a caveat. In correcting my mistake, it's going to make someone else's calculations even more wrong. The following information comes directly from DVC MS, this afternoon. The following breakdown was done by using discrete room accomodations. In other words, all units are broken down into their smallest configuration. For example, a 2BR isn't counted as a 2BR, it's counted as a studio and a 1BR for maximum room count where applicable and that is done consistantly throughout the resorts.

So....where does that leave us? The breakdown, that's where.

OKW .... 761 total rooms

BWV ... 520 total rooms

BCV ... 282 total rooms

VWL .... 181 total rooms

In doing the math .... and let's see how it is done Well BenStone, First you ADD all the units at the resorts (1525, according to previous posts). Second you DIVIDE the number of units at OKW (531) by the first number. This is called a PERCENT. OK. First, we begin by using accurate numbers which we now have.

Total OKW rooms .... 761

divided by ... total on site rooms ... 1744

Equals 43.63532 % of total for OKW.

So...please accept my sincerest apologies for underestimating OKW's clout. Believe it or not, it's even more than I stated but I'll leave that for another post.

On to a few more tidbits... Staying at BWV/BCV within walking distance to EPCOT/MGM: priceless
Staying at WLV within a quick boat to MK: pricelessBy examining the smaller room sizes, higher point schedules and current buy in amounts at the "hotel resorts", pricey would be the operative word.

BenStone

Peterd

07-24-2002, 09:18 PM

Yes, we all agree Okw IS cheaper, and we could all save points IF we wanted to stay there. We all know Cheaper isn't always better, to some it is, ............'nuff' said:rolleyes:

To change the subject a bit,
Just got back from a fellow DVCers rest. tonight and had a chance to sample a few of NYDISFAN's specialities, all I could say is excellent. The shrimp and sauce were out of this world.
Dave, we'll definitely be back, even though you're an okw owner. ( we're BW/Okw too) So if you're in Rocky Point Long Island, check it out. Thanks again.

Pete

WebmasterDoc

07-24-2002, 09:40 PM

We've begun to drift far from the topic "Why do you need so many more points to stay at WLV?".

Please keep future responses to that topic.

Thanks!

Peterd

07-24-2002, 09:48 PM

Sorry Doc, ok,

WL, BCV, BWV are all the same with the exception of the GV that only the BW and Okw have.

The BW standard room rates are closer to the okw rates, sometimes the same, sometimes a point or so higher.

They made the Okw, then I guess decided that they CAN get more points for the rooms at the DVC resorts closer to the parks. Some people complained the first year about not getting a BW or pool view, hence the standard view room more comparable to Okw. I remember when they first changed it, it was a great thing to do.
So yes, WL does cost more points, but only in comparison to the Okw and BW standard view rooms. Everything else is pretty close, or the same price for the newer resorts on property.

I really don't know about the differences to VB and HH. in points 'cause haven't stayed there yet, and haven't really took the time to compare, (I know some already have done so on their saturday nights). Eventually we will stay at them all, I do know would love to try the GV at VB sometime, and it will probably take swapping with one of our friends who own there for some of our BW points that year. I still don't get all the tension between the original owners, and the younger owners. More choices is better, right?

dvcChrisVWL

07-24-2002, 10:04 PM

FWIW -
We own at VWL and have stayed there several times (studio, 1br, and 2br). We have also stayed at OKW (studio and 1 br). My thought is this - what are you going to be doing there? If you plan to make most of your vacation staying in your room, then you might want to seriously consider the size - OKW is larger. If you plan to eat breakfast, spend days in the parks and maybe eat some dinners in your room and sleep, then you probably won't be using much of the room anyway.

Both are spacious enough for a comfortable week-long stay. OKW definitely feels larger, but when I first stayed at VWL, I couldn't believe how much room and ammenities (?sp?) I got! That was more than enough for us. OKW blew my mind even more.

As for the dedicated 2 BR at VWL, check the floor plan carefully. You gain some room, but you lose the extra front door and shut-off door as well as the kitchenette of the studio. So, it depends on what you are looking for. We are having lots of family over this December, so we got 2 2br units. Initially the reservationist gave us dedicated 2br units (I thought you had to request it and pray since there are few of them). We thought it over (and figured out where everyone would sleep) and decised that it was better to have lock-offs (non-dedicated) for the added convienence of the kitchenettes and front doors. Oh, I think there might be a bed difference in the studio portion of the dedicated vs. lock-off 2br.

The feels of the two are totally different! One is a FLorida tropical (Key West) feel, the other is a Carolina mountains feel (to me, anyway). If you have the opportunity (and you probably will between now and 2042!), give them both a try. VWL is right next to MK and you can see a small water parade from the back side of the property (?every night?).

To each his/her own, based on what they are looking for in a vacation.

Peterd

07-24-2002, 10:16 PM

Haven't stayed in the WLv yet, but have stayed at the hotel many times and love it. We'll probably try the villa side in the next year. The water parade at night IS great. My parents brought us to the Contemp. the second year it opened, and as a kid, I could remember the music that preceded it. One night at Wl, we're at the pool as adults, I hear the music, and said kids run, everyone ran to the lake, and they loved it too, it's still a thrill to watch.

PamOKW

07-25-2002, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by KJal1
Hi,
I was wondering why it costs so many more points to stay in a 2-br. at WLV than at OKW or even BWV:rolleyes:

While there may be reasons of increased profit on the DVC's, a very basic reason for the higher point cost is the higher construction costs of the newer resorts. OKW opened in 1991. BWV, VWL and BCV all opened in 1996 or later.

DVC sells real estate represented by the points. They can either increase the cost of each point or sell more points to recoup their costs and make a profit. They can also do a little of both. ;)

I'm not privy to exactly how DVC determines the total amount of points per resort and how they account for the different size units etc. However, here's a rough illustration of the "idea" of what happens:

DVC determines that the construction cost and the need for profit at OKW is $10,000 per studio. They decide to sell 200 points at $50 each for every studio. They then divide the 200 points over the year to layout the reservation costs at different times.

BWV costs more per unit to construct and they realize they can generate more profit as well. They decide the cost is $15,000 per studio. They can now keep the points at 200 per studio and charge $75 per point or keep the cost at $50 per point and sell 300 points per studio. They decide to split the difference and sell 250 points per studio at $60 per point. They will now have 250 points per year to layout for reservations. The points per night will be higher at BWV than OKW.

The determination of the total points per resort has to be made when DVC opens. They can't add more points later. They can raise the cost per point if they see people are willing to pay more and that will increase their profit.

KJal1

07-25-2002, 08:01 AM

I really didn't want to start a war about which resort is better, I was just curious about pricing because we had a decision to make about which villa to choose.
I wasn't going to choose WLV just because it's near MK or because of the Electrical Water Parade. We're already booking 2 nights at the Poly. specifically for those reasons.
I wasn't going to choose based on theme, because although WL is a beautiful resort we live in a very "woodsy" area and DM is definitely NOT into "woodsy".
I just wanted to know why they are priced differently. OKW rooms look huge in comparison to WLV, and slightly larger than BWV. However, looks can be deceiving when you are only looking at photos.
We aren't really looking for tons of stuff to do at the resort, we already have enough to do in the parks, waterparks and DD (as well as USF the last 2 days).
We eat most of our meals in the parks (or in room), so it wasn't the number of restauraunts either.
Transportation is an issue for us, I've been on a WL bus and the ride took forever. However, we haven't stayed at any of the DVC resorts so I needed some opinions on that. BWV is very close to MGM and Epcot, but I really don't want to pay extra JUST for that.
In conclusion.....
We did choose OKW (don't know if anyone actually saw my earlier post) because:
1. It is cheaper (I know that shouldn't be a real issue--but it is)
2. If i had to choose between WLV and OKW (which i had to) for theme, i would choose OKW, ONLY because DM isn't into the whole "woods" thing and we (DH, DS and myself) just recently stayed at AKL (and visited WLV) which, to me seemed similar.
3. I wanted a resort that wasn't too "busy", if anyone knows what i mean. Our DS can go into system overload (which isn't a pretty sight) when there are things constantly going on, which is what BWV looks like to me. OKW just looks more relaxing for our afternoon breaks, and I mean real breaks---short swim, snack and nap (for DS and DH).
4. We need a lot of room. Having stayed w/my parents in "efficiency units" for a couple of short (<3 nights)trips I do not want to be cramped on our one big vacation/year. I don't think they do either, especially seeing that this is their first WDW vacation in almost 15 years.
5. I haven't heard as much negative feedback about transportation at OKW that I have from WL. I don't want to have to take a 45 minute bus trip just to get to DD.

I think all of them are beautiful and I didn't mean to start an argument about which one is the best. That's subjective anyway, what I think is nice may not be nice for someone else. I'd like to try them all.

Besides there's always 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007........

Thanks again though for all the interesting information about the economics of the DVC!!;)

PamOKW

07-25-2002, 08:55 AM

I think all of them are beautiful and I didn't mean to start an argument about which one is the best. That's subjective anyway, what I think is nice may not be nice for someone else. I'd like to try them all.

Sounds like you've got the right idea! I hope you enjoy OKW and continue to enjoy all the DVC resorts as you try them out over the next 30-40 years. :)

Don't worry, you didn't start the war. It's an underlying current that runs through the DIS DVC Board waiting for a chance to appear....just like the 5 in a room debate. ;)

wdwsos

07-25-2002, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by KJal1

5. I haven't heard as much negative feedback about transportation at OKW that I have from WL. I don't want to have to take a 45 minute bus trip just to get to DD.

Seems you made the best choice for all of your reasons. You'll love the OKW!

I happen to be someone who's a big fan of the OKW transportation system. I think that the BCV and BWV location is great if you're walking to Epcot or MGM. However, for ease in getting to MK, AK, the water parks or DD, I find it's more convenient to be staying at the OKW. The buses aren't shared with other resorts, and the travel time is much quicker. I've even found the Epcot and MGM buses to be faster than taking the boat from the Epcot resorts. And that pontoon boat to DD is the best ride in all of WDW. :)

Have a wonderful time!

Dotti

KJal1

07-25-2002, 09:36 AM

It's great that you said that...I was just doing a search to see how good the transportation at OKW is. A lot of other people replying to another question I had posted said they loved OKW, but had taken their own car so I wasn't sure how the buses were. I think we were blessed on our last two trips, both ASMo and AKL buses were great, even during spring break/week before Easter.
I think we made the right choice too!

Thanks again!:D

DaveH

07-25-2002, 09:51 AM

We have only stayed at OKW for one night 2 different times. We used OKW busses on one of them. I found them to be the same as all other Disney World busses. That said, there are some problems with WDW busses. During the day they put WL/VWL, Poly and Grand Floridian busses on the same route. That causes 2 problem IMHO. One is the busses get overcrowded and they take longer than they should to get to and from the parks. I have heard they do the same thing with the busses for the BW/BWV, YC, BC/BCV. Until we joined DVC last year we were usually All Star resort guests. I was use to busses being crowded, I expected that. But the busses were for All Stars only. At peak times the busses would be for one resort and other times all 3 All Stars. If you plan plenty of time to move about no matter where you stay you should be fine. Others like driving to or renting cars and drive to the parks and/or other resorts for meals. When I go I am on vacation and do not want to drive every where. That is me. When my likds were young you almost always had to stay off property because of cost. I remember the drive from a full day at the parks as a zombie with other zombies and the family alseep in the car. No thank you anymore. Have a great, magical and safe vacation.

KJal1

07-25-2002, 09:56 AM

Yes, the Poly., WL, GF bus problem was one of the big reasons I elected not to stay at WLV. I can't agree with you more about driving while on vacation, I drive enough as it is. OKW seems to have their own buses, so as long as our service is at least as good as it was on our last two trips I think we'll be fine.
Thanks!:)

erikthewise

07-25-2002, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by wdwsos
I've even found the Epcot and MGM buses to be faster than taking the boat from the Epcot resorts.

No surprise here. Walking there backwards is faster than the Epcot boat!

Dean

07-25-2002, 12:54 PM

We had a lot of discussions when the WLV points came out. The points should have been about half way in between BWV preferred and OKW. To be the same as BWV preferred has the effect of making it more expensive than BW. While many prefer WL, more do not. BW and BC are more upscale hotels and more expensive for rooms for both DVC and CRO reservations.

I was told the reason was simply construction costs, read that "to increase profits". It's their call, just like a restaurant can set their own prices.

Maistre Gracey

07-25-2002, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Dean
...While many prefer WL, more do not. BW and BC are more upscale hotels...Dean, I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with you on this. I am curious why you think BW and BC are more upscale than WL?

SleepyatDVC

07-25-2002, 05:08 PM

Maistre Gracey,

I think that what Dean was referring to is that while WL, BWI, & Y&BC are all considered Deluxe Resorts, based on the room rates set by the Disney CRO, the stardard rooms at the WL are much less per night than at BWI and the Y&BC.

From mousesavers.com, just for comparsion sake:

Wilderness Lodge: Value Regular Peak Holiday
Standard View $194 $229 $274 $309
Woods View $214 $244 $289 $329
Courtyard View $245 $280 $330 $370
Concierge $340 $375 $425 $460
Honeymoon $390 $405 $440 $475

Boardwalk Inn: Value Regular Peak Holiday
Standard View $289 $319 $379 $434
Water View $350 $395 $460 $510
Concierge $415 $475 $535 $590
Concierge Deluxe* $500 $550 $595 $650
Garden Suite** $535 $590 $655 $770

Yacht & Beach Club Resort: Value Regular Peak Holiday
Standard View $289 $319 $379 $434
Sico Room*
(sleeps 2) $289 $319 $379 $434
Water/Pool View $335 $380 $440 $495
Deluxe**
(Beach Club only) $445 $495 $560 $620
Concierge Garden View
(Yacht Club only) $415 $470 $535 $595
Concierge Water View
(Yacht Club only) $460 $515 $580 $640

The difference when using discount codes is less, around $60 less per night at WL.
Value Season:
Wilderness Lodge - $119 standard, $139 courtyard view
Boardwalk - $179 standard
Beach Club/Yacht Club - $179 standard, $209 water view

I think part of the "upscale" premium charged by Disney is due to the premium charged for location, namely proximity to Epcot/MGM.

But as we all have learned, what Disney charges for cash ressies does not seem to correlate to the point structure.

All the DVC Resorts are beautiful and offer diiferent themes/locations to different people at different times. I'm glad we have so many diverse choices. If all of them were the same, what would be the point and fun of "trading" to another DVC resort to try it out at all?

Dean

07-25-2002, 06:10 PM

Sleepyat DVC referred to part of my thinking. The differences for the Villas at WL is less than for the regular rooms but still present when compared to the rack rates of the other resorts. Let me say that I'm more comfortable at WL as a hotel than at BC, BW or GF and prefer it "for the price". I think we can all agree that GF is a more upscale resort than WL so I'll use it to illustrate my point. I still like WL better but feel it should be less money than GF. I would put BC and BW in between WL and GF in terms of a deluxe rating. DVC did too in that the WL was in the same class as the Cont wing rooms and below the Poly, BC/YC, Cont Tower and GF on the older Disney Collection trade lists.

The fact that a certain group of people, myself included, prefer WL does not change the overall rating of a resort. BTW, the last Unofficial Guide I have has them rated the way I quote as well. This is not meant to be and should not be taken as a slam against the resort, it's just an honest interpretation of where WL falls in the overall scheme of things at WDW.

PamOKW

07-25-2002, 07:29 PM

DVC did too in that the WL was in the same class as the Cont wing rooms

DVC used to rank the Disney Collection as:

Luxury: GF
Premium: Y&B, Contemp Tower & Poly
First Class -- Contemp Wings, WL and Wilderness Homes
Moderate -- CBR, CSR, DX, PO

In Paris, the Hotel NY was ranked First Class and the Sequoia Lodge and Newport Bay Club as Premium.

The WL rooms are smaller than the other Deluxe hotel rooms. However, the WLV rooms are comparable in size to the other DVC resorts. Since the cost to build was probably comparable then it makes sense for the point prices to be the same.

Dean

07-25-2002, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by PamOKW
Since the cost to build was probably comparable then it makes sense for the point prices to be the same. Maybe from a construction cost standpoint but not from a value standpoint IMO.

Maistre Gracey

07-25-2002, 08:36 PM

I understand that people will pay for location, (although personally I don't care as much for the Boardwalk area), and overall the BC, YC, and BW have a very popular location. Because of this, I can see why those hotels can charge more, thus demand a higher point value for The Disney Collection.

Dean, if what you are saying is that those hotels seem more "stuffy", then I agree (no offense to the folks who enjoy those fine resorts). I enjoy the more "fun" theme of WL/VWL than the more "sophisticated" theme of BW/BWV/YC/BC/BCV.

Perhaps I took what you were saying incorrectly. I know that you are aware that all of these hotels are deluxe resorts, all with near identical amenities.

On a side note:
JMO, but for anyone that has never seen the WL/VWL (I'm sure this doesn't apply to anyone here) must see this resort, as there is really no way words can describe the grandeur and beauty of the WL/VWL.

PamOKW

07-25-2002, 09:50 PM

I think the physical plant of WL -- lobby, pool, restaurant are at the deluxe level. In fact, the lobby of WL reminds me very much of the GF lobby, just with a very different decor. The guest room size would be the stumbling block to calling it equal to Y&B. IMHO, the villas are equal to those of BCV and BWV. The decor does not particularly appeal to me but I don't think they are lacking in anything except walking proximity to a park.

deerh

07-25-2002, 10:19 PM

According to AAA ratings, the GF,BWV are 4 stars rating, and the WL, and almost all other resorts at WDW are 3 star ratings. This backs up what Dean said. Maybe that is the reason the price difference, etc. I have stayed at WL, not the WLV, but they are VERY nice, as any Disney property. There is nothing to compare the Disney properties in general to outside of Disney, IMHO. MAYBE the Hard Rock Hotel which I stayed in April, but these are few and far between in Orlando, Go to International Drive and see what I mean.... Exception is the Peabody, but never seen it inside, only outside.
deerh

Maistre Gracey

07-25-2002, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by PamOKW
...The guest room size would be the stumbling block to calling it equal to Y&B...
Pam, I agree the WL rooms are very small, and this may well be the stumbling block. They do offer a deluxe room that supposedly is much larger. I have never stayed at YC/BC to compare room sizes.

EDIT: deerh, just out of curiosity...was The Poly ranked as a 3 star? I just want to know what to expect when they anounce "The Polynesian Villas"!!! :cool:

troosvelt

07-26-2002, 12:17 AM

As long as we're on the subject of high point costs...

How come the big difference in point costs between a studio and a 1BR ?

If you pay cash at most of the DVC resorts, a 1BR costs about 40% more than a studio.

If you pay points, it's double.

Seems kind of messed up to me.

Richyams

07-26-2002, 04:35 AM

I agree, they should raise the studio points to get them in line with the difference in cash prices.

deerh

07-26-2002, 11:40 AM

EDIT: deerh, just out of curiosity...was The Poly ranked as a 3 star? I just want to know what to expect when they anounce "The Polynesian Villas"!!!

The Poly is a 3 star resort according to AAA ratings. FYI, Vero Beach and HHI are also 3 star resorts according to AAA. Just FYI...
deerh

erikthewise

07-26-2002, 02:45 PM

AAA diamond awards IMHO tend be based on lists of amenities and features rather than a critical evaluation. But that still doesn't explain Polynesian being 3 diamonds along with every Hampton Inn and Courtyard in the country. I suspect they're just being a little snotty.

DeeP

07-26-2002, 04:20 PM

I agree ranking the Poly the same as the chains of Hampton Inns etc is ridiculous! The Poly is a true resort that has tons of atmosphere and beautiful grounds and pathways. Walking around the resort at night and watching the electrical water parade and MK fireworks from the Poly beach is some of Disney magic at it's best!! Hampton Inns & Courtyard hotels are often just large structures with 1 rest, 1 bar, a swimming pool and rooms and are often located close to strip malls, and right on highways with very little outdoor grounds and null atmosphere. To rank them the same is very inaccurate, I don't care what AAA says!