Bad Verandah Experience...

[KeenHo]

Note: This is copied from another thread concerning the cost of a verandah and if it is worth it. My wife and I thought it deserved it's own thread for discussion.

While booking our June 22 Western cruise last August ('01), the cast member we booked with told us we had the last full view, Category 6, unobstructed verandah on deck 6 starboard (aft). We were told this specifically and based on this booked. We paid the extra $$ for the verandah.

When we boarded and got to the room (#6634), we had an obstructed view verandah. There was metal, blocking our view, cutting down from the upper right to lower middle of the verandah. To say we were a bit upset is an understatement. It set a bad tone for the cruise, at least as far as the verandah is concerned. We used it very little because of this. My wife, Cam, looked forward to mornings with coffee out on the verandah for months prior to the cruise, she didn't do this once.

We went to guest services right away to complain and they said they would have to research the booking and who took it, etc. We spoke to them upon boarding and they didn't have a satisfactory answer to us the entire week. We did ask them to check to see if we could move to another cabin, but nothing was available.

They tried to placate us with a complimentary cracker & cheese tray, and a signed Mickey Mouse photo, and a stuffed Angel Mickey at different times during the week. They even gave us free snorkel gear rentals on Castaway Cay.

What they did was nice, but I am afraid to say that it comes no where near what we expected then, or still expect today, as a result of our verandah experience.

Once this is resolved, I will post an update.

Howard

[AnnMorin]

We are booked right below you Cat. 6 room 5130. I was told this is a regular veranda. Could you describe the obstruction more? Was the veranda plexiglass? Did it still have two chairs and the table?

[KeenHo]

No sooner did I post this thread, we received our formal response from DCL. I will include it here word for word....

"Thank you for speaking with our Shipboard Officers during your family's sailing aboard the Disney Magic. They have made me aware of your concerns.

On behalf of the entire Disney Cruise Line team, please accept my sincere regret for any disappointment with your stateroom verandah. Our brochures note that "verandahs may vary by stateroom," and our pricing is based upon the stateroom features, which include a queen-sized bed or two twin beds, single convertible sofa, wall pull down bed, privacy divider, split bath, and private verandah. Additionally, each of these staterooms contains 268 square feet of living space. Unfortunately, since all of our category 6 staterooms offer the same size and amenities, we are unable to offer any reimbursement. It is my hope, however, that our Guest Services team effectively conveyed our heartfelt concern for your situation with the complimentary amenities and rentals at Disney's Castaway Cay. Please be assured, though, that we have taken each and every one of your concerns very seriously and has been shared with the appropriate management individuals.

Again, I truly regret any disappointment and hope that these concerns will not affect your regard for the Disney organization or Disney Cruise Line. There is magic in the Disney name, and we look forward to the chance to sail with you again one day soon."

Sincerely,

DCL
Executive Guest Correspondent

[KeenHo]

The verandah was the same size in square footage as others. It did have two chairs and a small table. The problem was that you could not sit in those chairs and look out into the ocean in both directions as in other verandahs. The curved decorative metal of the aft part of the ship (just before port hole windows start) was blocking and obstructing the view. It blocked, in our estimation, more than half of the space for viewing. The railing was a partial one, it was metal with plexiglass.

The bottom line is that this is NOT what we were sold, we specifically asked and was told we had an unobstructed view verandah. The Castmember made an error and Disney should be responsible in some way to make it up to us.

I hope this description helps.

Howard

[susan514]

This just shows the importance of doing your homework. I booked a cruise using DVC points about a month ago for cat. 6. I was given the numbers of the cabins and told that they were the best available in this cat. Afterwards, I looked up on the web on a site that gives the plans for cruise ships and saw that we were at the aft and then went to Dave's site and was quickly able to see that the cabin had an obstructed view from a picture he had of the Magic. I called back right away and was told that was all that was available and I changed to Cat. 5. They did the change for free, since the paperwork from DVC had not been done to DCL.

Had I not researched, I would have been sorely dissappointed since we love the balcony. I feel that many mistakes that people claim are Disney's fault are actully their's for not checking things out. What is it the Boyscout's say "BE PREPARED"

Sue

[4nana]

That would definitely be a bummer and I would be very dissappointed also! Afterall, isn't the point of a verandah to sit and enjoy the view? I remember a thread awhile back that Cat 5 and Cat 6 on decks 5, 6, 7 have quite a few of these rooms w/4' partial medal verandahs aft. ship. Someone pls correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe the port/starbrd rooms include:
#5142 thru #5150 - #5642 thru #5650
#6144 thru #6152 - #6644 thru #6652
#7130 thru #7134 - #7630 thru #7634

[4nana]

Ann ...

If the above list is correct your cabin #5130 is not included :D
and should be the plexiglass.

[keenercam]

This is KeenHo's DW and I would like to respond--

Sue--
We did our research. I did so much research on these boards ahead of time asking about that cabin, and then I specifically asked the CM if, since that cabin was so far aft, was it a full view verandah and she said absolutely yes. She said it was the last verandah before the obstruction.
Look at 4Nana's list and you will see what I mean. 6634 is NOT listed as an obstructed view. Nothing we have found ANYWHERE indicates that this is obstructed view.
This was our third cruise, the second on the Magic. DH and I have been posting on these boards for about a year and a half. We THOUGHT we had covered all contingencies. I had even done numerous posts asking about the cabin and every one (including my hero, Dave from Marietta) said it was a plexiglass verandah and no one seems to have known that it was obstructed.

To say I was upset and frustrated while on the ship would be an understatement. This was the first time we splurged on a verandah and we had spoken so frequently of breakfast on the verandah, looking out at the ocean. Gee, maybe we should have taken turns sitting on the one chair that had the ocean view. We agreed from the beginning that we would not let the situation ruin our trip. And, as long as Ericka at Guest Services was telling us that the issue was being researched and we would have the opportunity to talk with someone at DCL, we were willing to bide our time. However, we found that we spent NO time on the verandah and often kept the curtains closed since mostly all you could see was white metal coming down from the ceiling to the floor, on an angle. Even our friends who visited our cabin could not believe it. We booked the trip 11 months out and there is NO reason we would or should have paid the full category 6 price for something so much less than we wanted.

DCL's response on the issue is wholly unsatisfactory. Ericka at Guest Services ASSURED us someone would call us at home to discuss this. Instead we got a "blow-off" letter. We already booked two cabins for 4/04. Needless to say, right now I have a hard time thinking of giving DCL any more of my money.

[fireplug]

What is it that you want them to do. It seems to me that they have made a attempt to make it up to you. Is there something in particular you want them to do? I would not give up plans for next cuise you have plenty of time to decide. I hope this works out the way you want.

Steve

[Dave_from_Marietta]

Cam and Howard...

...sorry this missed my radar. Now that I look at a photo of the ship I see what you're talking about. It's probably small consolation, but it appears your verandah was less obstructed than 7620's where the angle of the metal is even greater.

<p align=center><img src="http://www.dcltribute.com/images/6634.jpg"></p>For the benefit of future cruisers, you might want to make some more noise. The "Secret Porthole Rooms" were originally Category 8's but people complained because they were paying for a full view but got an obstructed view. Now people are happy to get those rooms for the price of a Category 10. It seems to me that 6134, 6634, 7120, and 7620 should be priced as a Category 7.

And although it would be a reasonable gesture for DCL to refund the difference between what your Category 6 cost and what a Category 7 would have cost, the value of the "comps" they gave you may have been equal in value to that price difference.

To complain effectively you need to be specific about what it will take for them to make good. But the make-good should be reasonable. A full refund? Not going to happen. A refund for the difference in price between a Category 6 and a Category 7? Maybe. A promise that they'll reclassify these rooms as Category 7? That might be reasonable. Make sure they are aware that you have two more cruises booked and make sure they know you are so unhappy about their response that you are considering cancelling. And if they don't give you a reasonable reparation (and <i>again</i>, let me stress the word "<i>reasonable</i>"), then you should consider following through and cancelling their cruises... making sure they are aware that you're doing that and why.

Do you have any photos of your "view"? Again, I'm sorry this missed my radar, but I'll want to warn future folks so they can benefit from your experience.

[keenercam]

Dave--
Thank you so much for your response. We do intend to write a letter and I hope you will help us to make others aware of the misrepresented accomodations. I agree that there should be a reasonable compensation-- I believe DCL should refund the difference between a category 6 and a category 7. Howard asked me to let you know that we have a picture of the obstructed verandah. Email me if you would like us to send it to you.

As for the value of the "comps", here is what they did--

a 6x8 autographed picture of Captain Mickey that they sell at Shutters. We bought a bunch of stock photos at Shutters last year--if we had wanted it, we would have bought it. We certainly did not need or want or request it.

a small mickey plush dressed in white with angel wings--again, I didn't need it or want it and certainly do not want a "dead mickey" plush--it is in a drawer to be donated.

snorkel rental at castaway cay--we had our friends' snorkel gear. we did not use the rentals. did not want them or request them

a cheese and cracker tray -- on Friday night, 15 minutes before our Palos reservation, someone walked into our cabin--without knocking. Howard was getting dressed. He certainly never heard a knock. I was still in a towel and screamed "DON'T COME IN!" as I cowered in a towel. Then the phone rang a couple minutes later -- we have complimentary dinner for you from Guest Services--"HUH? We have Palo's reservations in 10 minutes"-- "But it's complimentary." We let them deliver it. It was the cheese & crackers tray that you get from room service--for FREE. we even tipped the guy, we were so stunned. It actually COST a couple of bucks for something we didn't want or need and certainly could have gotten ourselves.

I do not mean to sound ungrateful. I just thought it was so bizarre that anyone thought this unwanted stuff would make up for the situation.

[mrsltg]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

DH, DD, and I are booked on the Magic in 6634 on 12/6/03. I am now going to e-mail my travel agent and ask her to change my cabin (again!).

Thanks so much for this very helpful post!!!


Erin :D

[paulmc80]

Great suggestions Dave.

I have found that unless you are specific on what you want to resolve a complaint, no matter how apparent it may be, corporations will never seem to figure it out. I always figured it was placing money over satisfying the customer in the most appropriate way. Guess I'm liberal in that regard and distrusting of large organizations. In this case I guess they try to classify as many rooms as possible at the highest category possible and hope no one ever complains, and I believe a lot of people do not.

If they said you were getting a unobstructed, cat 6 room then that is what you should have gotten. The logical resolution, to me anyway, is to refund you the difference for what they would have charged for an obstructed view room.

I really feel for people when things like this happen and am so thinking of writing DCL myself to let them know. Nicely of course.

[candleonwater]

Thanks Dave for posting that picture!

I was kind of wigging out... worried that I was going to be unhappy with my room 6632... being next door - I wasn't sure what to expect, but I don't have anything to worry about.

[SuAnne]

We had been assigned that cabin as well for our Dec. 2000 cruise and once I looked at the picture in the DCL brochure I called and had it changed. I don't think the Reservation CMs are aware that it is obstructed as they did not seem to think it was when I called to have it changed. I agree that if it's obstructed it should not be considered a Cat. 6.

[fireplug]

Keenercam
Sorry to sound bizarre.
But I had no idea of the value of the items offered. If you want a refund I would just keep calling DCL and asking to speak to a management person and tell them you would like a refund.
I would just ask for it instead of wiating to get on offer from DCL.

Once again I was not trying to offend.

Steve

[keenercam]

sorry, Steve. I didn't mean you;)
I meant it was bizarre that DCL thought they could "buy our complacence" with such strange "tokens"
No offense taken!:D

[scottie]

Do any of the cat. 4 rooms on deck 8 have obstructed views? We will be in cabin 8528.

[Señor Ferrari]

As near as I can tell, none of the category 4 rooms on deck 8 have this type of obstructed view. The solid metal railings appear to begin further to the front, as there are no category 7's on deck 8. It looks like they begin at 8594 on the starboard side and 8090 on the port side.

Your room, 8528, is right next to the Roy O. Disney Suite at midship, and should have the plexiglass railing.

[trishy]

Dave's advice is excellent. Like others have posted, it is very unfortunate that corporations do not fully understand a customer's complaint or intent. That is why you need to be explicit, yet cordial, in making your intent known. I hope that you will send them another letter and keep us posted on how this turns out. You may even want to send along an enlarged picture of the verandah that Dave posted - can be very useful. This is very interesting. I agree with you that those token gifts, though "nice", were not sufficient to make up for a dissapointing verandah experience. Good luck.

[Mjasp]

Like I stated on the other post. I had NO idea there was such a thing as an obstructed verandah. How can you tell when you book if its obstructed or not? I know mine isn't obstructed as I stayed in the room already, but how would a newbie know? Does it have to be a metal verandah to be obstructed? Sorry for all the questions, but I went to Dave's site and couldn't figure it out there either.

Joanna

[Buschfan]

I understand you being upset. You should not be expected to check out sites like this and read through hundreds of posts to find out if your view is obstructed. It should be indicated in the brochure which verandahs are blocked, plain and simple.

Just hope you have better luck dealing with DCL's office in Celebration than we did after our cruise. At least you didn't get repeated form letters back like we did. I ended up having to call multiple times to get any kind of personal response. DCL did respond by sending us similar tokens that you described. I then straight out asked for a refund of my youngest child's fare after he was treated badly in the children's program. That is when I was told that they couldn't possibly do such a thing. Seems like these tokens are more cost effective and they would rather not give any type of refunds after they have your money.

[Mjasp]

Buschfan...What happened to you on your cruise???

[Buschfan]

I posted previously about our experience in the topic listed as: Important - DCL Children's Programming - Participation Guidelines. I

[taswira]

Since DCL is not likely to want to refund you the category difference in cash, and since at this point you do plan to cruise with DCL again, why don't you politely suggest that they provide you with the difference as an onboard credit on your next cruise?

[keenercam]

Great suggestions, everyone. I did fax a letter yesterday to the individual who wrote to us. I did request a refund of the difference between a category 6 and 7. Here are a few of the excerpts:

"I am writing in response to your letter of July 17, 2002. Specifically, I am writing to discuss a misrepresentation by one of your Cast Members on the afternoon of August 21, 2001 and DCL’s resolution of the issue. At this time, I am requesting that DCL refund to me the difference between the Category 6 unobstructed, full view verandah that I was promised and the obstructed view cabin which we had (I respectfully suggest that the cabin we had should be marketed as a category 7).

After sailing with my family and three other families on the 5/26/01 Magic eastern itinerary, I called on August 21, 2001 to check on cabin availability for June 22, 2002. According to my phone log, I spent more than 16 minutes on the phone with a DCL representative. We reviewed cabin availability and when the Cast Member suggested cabin 6634, I noted that it was pretty far aft and specifically asked whether it was a full-view verandah. The Cast Member told me it was an unobstructed view verandah with plexiglass, rather than steel bottom. I clarified that this verandah was just the same as the others further forward that she and I had discussed. On the representation that the verandah was full view and unobstructed, I made a deposit

* * *
We continued to call Ericka to inquire as to the status of the “investigation” and she called us several times, always pleasantly, to find out if we were enjoying our cruise. Every time I spoke with her I clarified that we were NOT satisfied with the cabin and that we insisted on the opportunity to talk with someone at DCL with authority to address the issue. She assured me we would receive a phone call from DCL within a week of disembarkation.

To say we were upset and frustrated while on the ship would be an understatement. This was the first time we splurged on a verandah and we had spoken so frequently of breakfast alone together and pre-dinner drinks with our friends on the verandah, looking out at the ocean. The reality is that we spent NO time on the verandah and often kept the curtains closed since mostly all you could see was white metal coming down from the ceiling to the floor, on an angle–a view that caused me continued anger and unhappiness. Our friends who visited our cabin could not believe we had paid full Category 6 price for such an obviously substandard view and that we were “stuck” with that verandah even though we booked ten months in advance! Neither could we. Throughout the week, friends and acquaintances asked how DCL was resolving the issue and we continued to tell them that we hoped to have a satisfactory resolution within a week of disembarkation. We continue to receive inquiries from other cruisers asking how DCL has handled the matter. I am disappointed that even today, more than a month after we boarded the Magic, DCL has not responded satisfactorily.

We booked this trip 10 months from the sail date and there is NO reason we would or should have paid the full category 6 price for that obstructed verandah when we could have easily chosen another cabin with a full verandah–that you might think we would have knowingly made such a choice defies logic and is insulting–we booked a verandah cabin for the verandah–NOT for “268 square feet of living space”! Moreover, if we had been uneducated as to the fact that “verandahs may vary by stateroom”, the situation might be different. Because I was aware that there were different kinds of verandahs, I specifically asked about cabin 6634 and the CM misrepresented that 6634 was the last full view, unobstructed verandah–I have that in my notes of the conversation! What is worse–even today, the CMs at your reservation line are misrepresenting that verandah.

Nor do the “tokens” which Guest Services arranged for begin to compensate for the misrepresentation. None of these items was wanted or used. And, notwithstanding that Ericka ASSURED us someone would call us at home to discuss our issue, instead of a call, we received a letter purporting to justify the situation. * * * My husband and I have already booked two cabins for April 2004, and have every reason to believe our travel party will grow significantly before then. If this issue is not satisfactorily resolved, neither we nor our friends will sail with DCL again.

What do you all think?

I faxed the letter to DCL last night, including my daytime and evening phone numbers. I wonder if they will respond.

[mrsltg]

Good for you, Cam. Direct and to the point. If they don't give you what you are asking for, write another letter thanking them for saving you you thousands of dollars... the difference in price between a Disney cruise and most other lines!

Good luck!

Erin :D

[iluvorlando]

Keenercam,

From what I read, you sounded firm but not harsh. You were reasonable. I hope you get the resolution you deserve.

[AnnMorin]

Your photo was great Dave- do you have 5130 on one?I am still trying to figure out if we are "safe" or not. Ann

[peg2001]

keenercam,

I am impressed. Despite how upset you are about the original complaint and with the lack of appropriate response from DCL, your letter is calm and detailed without deteriorating into a rant.

I hope you get the response you want and especially that DCL takes the initiative to change the category of the affected cabins.

Peg

[aseafish]

This is all very unnerving. I hope you eventually get a more satisfactory response from DCL. I thought their reputation was a lot better than this, The part of their response that was especially absurd was the reference to the "magic" in the name Disney. It's beginning to sound like the only magic is imaginary. Our first Disney cruise is in January, and I'm more than a little nervous now. We're in rooms 6600 and 6602. I've seen them on the layout, so I think the views are okay, but now I'm just generally worried.

[Dave_from_Marietta]

Originally posted by AnnMorin

Your photo was great Dave- do you have 5130 on one?I am still trying to figure out if we are "safe" or not. Ann

AnnMorin, it looks like you'll be okay with 5130. If you look at the photo, 5630 (the mirror image of 5130) would be right below 6634. The angled obstruction begins on Deck 6 and is even worse on Deck 7. But it appears that it is <i><b>not</b></i> a problem on Deck 5.

[keenercam]

aseafish--
I hope we have not upset you. We absolutely loved both of our cruises on the Magic. We enjoyed the first cruise so much that we went back this year without our kids. the verandah issue is unique to us because we specifically inquired and we are hoping our efforts will result in full disclosure by DCL for future guests. As you can see, most of these people on these boards have magical, flawless vacations. I am sure you will have a wonderful time!

Cam

[VondaP]

As much as I enjoyed our disney cruise last October, I had an issue on board that was never resolved. After 2 letters to DCL, nothing was ever done. I realize now that whatever happens on the ship needs to be addressed right then and there. Once your off, that's it.

We had room 6028. We couldn't see anything off to the right, unless we leaned way over the railing. We have 6110 for our next cruise. I hope it's ok. My problem had nothing to do with the verandah.

Vonda

[randytenn]

We also had an experience that was never resolved on our 2000 cruise. We paid for the air package, which included the baggage transfers. The brouchere even says "You'll never have to carry a bag". Well, DCL booked us with an airline that didn't check baggage at the terminal, so, we had to carry our bags from the bus to the airline counter and had to check them at the ticket counter. Kinda irritating, since we overpaid for the airfare package. Disney simply said "sorry you misunderstood" (which I didn't. I wrote them exactly what was written in the brouchere). Alas, I got nothing but a letter.

Good luck on your attempt at satisfaction.

[aseafish]

Keenercam,
Thanks. I appreciate your comments. This is our first ever cruise and I'm probably overly nervous.

[Ginny]

KeenerCam -

The excerpts from your letter are wonderful!! You have done a superb job of depicting a disappointing situation. As you are someone who is so organized as to have documented their DCL reservation call on their phone log, my suggestion may be a moot point but here goes: Tomorrow morning, print a copy of the letter, sign it and mail it "Certified Mail" or Return Receipt Requested to Disney Cruise Lines indicating that "The enclosed document is the original of the letter telefaxed to your office on 24 July 02." On the return receipt, you will have someone's signature or initials to reference in future correspondence.

If, after two weeks, you have not been contacted, I would move the letter up a notch and mail it directly (by name) to the DCL Company Officer with responsibility for Customer Relations, Marketing or the Call Centers. Again, I would send it certified. I would wait 2-3 weeks for a response and ramp it up a notch, again.

In each letter, I would continue to update the steps you have taken to resolve this at the lowest level without success. If you need to go all the way to DCL's President, so be it!! If it goes that far, I would reference this thread and the fact that 2000 people have read it (that is today's numbers) - bluntly make them aware of the negative press the incident has generated. If their call center staff are not well-versed in the available staterooms, it is a training problem which needs to be addressed. "Service Recovery" is taught at the Disney Institute - they need to deploy those same concepts.

[Hopkins]

If my husband and I finally splurged on a verandah (full view) category 6, I would have expected a non-obstructed view. I'd definitely be more than upset. Those rooms should definitely be downgraded in category to a 7. I'm really sorry.

Hubby and I are usually inside cabin people, though our next cruise we have a large window on deck 2 (category 9). I'd be furious if they somehow changed our room to two little portholes on deck 1. You get excited for what you are expecting. Once it's not there, it sets the wrong tone for the entire cruise. I hope they refund the difference in price for you because it has spoiled things for you, as it would for me. Besides, it's the right thing to do. Those rooms are partially obstructed, even though they have plexi-glass at the bottom. They fall somewhere between a category 6 and 7.

Tina

[keenercam]

Thank you all so very much for your generous and supportive responses. We (DH--KeenHo and I) are reassured that we did not over react about the quality of the verandah--we are so grateful that none of you thought we were being absurd. Even DH who is the most laid-back person I have ever known and who always looks at the best in a situation, was utterly disappointed.

Just to update--I faxed the letter the night before last and also put it in the mail. I called the phone number on the letter to ask for the fax number for Mr. Joel Hayes, the individual who signed the letter on behalf of DCL. I faxed it to that number--which came up on my firm's fax machine as "DCL Marketing". I saved the confirmation sheet with our copy of the letter. I also mailed the original of the letter to the address on DCL's letter to us. If I have to send another letter, I will do it by certified mail--Thank you, Ginny for your advice--it is indispensable!

DH told me yesterday that if DCL does not respond appropriately, he wants to immediately cancel our 4/04 reservation (we put down $1000 in deposits--I am not going to let that money sit with DCL while we remain disappointed) and book a trip with another cruise line. We have sailed Celebrity before and loved it. Our friend who is a travel agent is watching our situation carefully and will eagerly make new reservations for us elsewhere. Needless to say, we are all surprised and disappointed so far. I am hoping Disney does not let us down, that they will realize how much it means to us to be a "Disney" family.

Anyway, thanks again everyone. DISers are the absolute BEST!
Cam

[Gillian]

Thank you for sharing your experience. Those rooms should really be reclassified & if you can get it done, we'll all appreciate it! You're doing a great job with following up!

I hope all of your issues are resolved & that you can happily enjoy your next Disney cruise :)

[AnnMorin]

Thanks for such a quick reply Dave. Glad to know we will be ok! Ann

[KeenHo]

I appreciate all the support in our efforts to get this resolved. I wish there was a way to e-mail this thread to Mr. Joel Hayes. He would undoubtedly see how serious an issue this is.

Dave - If you get time, please post the photo I sent to you here. It will give everyone a better view (so to speak) of our situation.

I must admit, it is hard to see "the magic in the Disney name" when this is still unresolved.

Thanks again.

Howard

[wovenwonder]

Fax him a link to this thread! This is bad publicity for DCL and they need to do something about it.

It would be like charging someone for a porthole in the 'secret porthole rooms'. Its a great addition for no extra cost but I would have been FURIOUS to think I was getting a regular porthole and having the obstruction.

DCL ---- CHANGE THE CATEGORY OF THOSE CABINS!

:rolleyes:

[keenercam]

Jody--
I am soooo glad for your support as well as everyone else's. We have emailed the thread to Mr. Hayes and I hope to be in a position to report favorably on his response.

[Dave_from_Marietta]

Originally posted by KeenHo

Dave - If you get time, please post the photo I sent to you here. It will give everyone a better view (so to speak) of our situation.

Click <a href="http://www.dcltribute.com/images/6634_inside.jpg"><font color=blue>here</font></a>.

[Samsma]

I'm sorry this situation more or less ruined your trip. Maybe we do expect more out of Disney than other lines, resorts, etc. But we also pay more for that "Magical" feeling, and do so willingly. We will all be waiting for Disney to back up on this matter and give you the refund, and the apology you deserve. It's not just a matter of money, you didn't get what you paid for, and what you had been looking forward to for 10 months.

[Doctor P]

I'm really sorry that you were disappointed, and I hope that you get some satisfaction from DCL. That said, now that I have seen a picture of the view, I think they are justified in claiming that this is an unobstructed verandah. There is nothing obstructing a significant portion of the verandah, and there is certainly nothing obstructing a straight on view. Is the view worse than it could possibly be? Yes, of course it is. Is the view less than what you expected? Yes, it obviously was. Did someone give you misinformation saying that it was an unobstructed verandah? That I am less certain of. Obviously, if the veteran cruisers on this board, after seeing the picture, still agree that this is a seriously obstructed verandah for which you really deserve significant compensation, they have much more experience and I respect that knowledge. Again, I really am sorry that you had this experience and I hope you get the satisfaction you want.

[Jobro2]

Vonda..Just to let you know we had room 6110 last June when we cruised and LOVED IT! Loved it so much that we booked the same room, but on the other side of the ship( just for a change)..for our cruise in June 2003...no problems with 6110!!

[paulmc80]

I don't know, but its interesting to see what a definition of obstructed and unobstructed is. To me obstructed is anything at all that blocks the view even to the smallest degree. If there is bit old sheet of metal blocking off half a verandah then to me it is obstructed. But I guess it may not be so to others. Very interesting.

[taswira]

Well, after seeing the photo, I'm afraid I must agree with Doctor P. That picture primarily shows the right side of the verandah and does not show the full view which would show that the majority of the view is <I>not</I> obstructed (would need a wide angle lens to get that). It appears that a small portion of the top right of the verandah is "obstructed," and maybe <I>some</I> compensation could be expected since a totally unobstructed view was REQUESTED. But, having stayed in both a totally open regular verandah and an enclosed Navigator Verandah room, just MHO but I do not think this should be repriced as a Cat. 7. However, I know how much this meant to you, and I do wish you all the best in your dealings with DCL over the matter.

[paulmc80]

Am I missing something on the picture Dave posted? I cannot really tell how the obstruction is in relation to the actual deck of the verandah. I took it as Keener had mentioned that the obstruction was coming from the upper right down to the lower middle of the verandah. Middle being the center of the verandah's length then that's quite a bit. But I ain't ever been there to see so wouldn't have any clue. :D

[Hopkins]

Having paid all that money for a category 6, I'd expect NO obstruction in my view. Granted the picture doesn't show the full view, but what it does show is an obstruction. I wouldn't be happy. If I had my friends out there, the person on the right looking out would be looking at the obstruction. Wouldn't they? I would have expected a full view. Period.

Inside cabin cruiser.
Tina

[my3kids]

From the description I thought it sounded much more obstructed than the most recently linked photograph shows. Is the door 3 panels of glass and this photo shows the amount of the coverage by the obstruction? If that is the case it looks to me like maybe a third of one of the panels is obstructed when viewing from inside the cabin. I think I'd have been more irritated by having a smoker on the adjacent balcony keeping me from enjoying the view. I was mentally picturing a steel plate from the upper right corner(right when standing at the door looking outside) continuing down at an angel to the middle of the bottom of the verandah. I know you were disappointed, and I'm sorry that it made your trip less than expected. I think I would have been alot more disappointed to find myself on one of those steel bottomed verandahs when I was expecting plexiglass.

[Hopkins]

Aren't the steel bottom verandahs a different category than the plexi-glass?

I thought the obstruction was more, but having said that when you expect plexi-glass, you don't want to see steel, if it's a different category. If steel bottom verandahs are cheaper due to the fact they are obstructed from below, this room has an obstruction when you view standing up from the right side.

Are the steel bottom verandahs a different category? If they are not, then I take everything I said back.

Tina

[cumickey]

I also would be disappointed with ANY kind of obstruction to my view from the cat.6 verandah.

As I see it, it would be in DCL's interest to avoid lots of hassle from other misled families and class this as a navigator's verandah cat.7. That way people will think they have got a bargain instead, like in the 'secret' porthole situation, and not say a word!. But then again someone will be missing the benches and the privacy from the navigators!!, and say that is misleading too. And so it goes on!!

Where & how does DCL let the customers and TA's know when a cat.6 verandah view is obstructed?, how can a TA tell someone this info unless they are reading these boards too?.

I imagine that rooms 7120/7620 are even worse as Dave said, and has shown in his earlier photo/diagram.

I have dealt with Disney before and they have answers for everything!, the best marketing, but it would be great to save other families a great disappointment in the future with these rooms. Even more so if it is their holiday of a lifetime with no chance of repeat trips.

So I wish lots of luck to you on your endeavor with DCL and thanks for going to this trouble to straighten it out.

[atigeg]

I don't think that this is the type of thing that's exclusive to Disney. When we went to Alaska on Radiance of the Seas, our verandah stateroom was right over the lifeboats. Unlike Disney, where the lifeboats are recessed, they stick out on Radiance and totally obstruct the view straight down. This was terrible for me, as I love looking down at the water. I never would have booked that stateroom if I had know my view would be obstructed, but there was no indication. The cruise was full, so we were stuck there. I know that people have their personal preferences, but I tend to run a little opposite of the crowd...I know most people don't like the solid aft metal verandahs, but I love them. I've never seen one of the rooms with the curved side, but we will try to get photos when we're on our "three-peat" next month.
Barb
Visit the Platinum Castaway Club at: www.*****************

[my3kids]

Hopkins: No, the steel bottomed are the same category as the plexiglass verandahs. I would think a lot of people have not checked here first and must be astounded when they enter expecting plexiglass and they get the fully obscured bottom. Especially what a disappointment for children who can't see over the railing.,

[taswira]

The verandah in question appears to be <I>mostly</I> plexiglass bottom and open air, with only the partial metal "obstruction" on the far right. I think it would be inappropriate to reclass this as a Navigator Verandah. I actually <I>prefer</I> the Navigator to the regular verandah, having experienced both, because I enjoy the atmosphere (map, instruments), the slightly larger table, the cushioned bench and more comfortable chair (as opposed to the regular verandah). I also like it being partially enclosed (that's a BIG almost rectangular open air "porthole" on the Wonder) because even in high winds and inclement weather I can enjoy the verandah. I think DCL should just add a letter class, like "6M", for those with metal bottoms or obstructions. If they made them cheaper than a regular verandah, I don't think it should be by much. Just my opinion. But yes, I still agree that if someone is TOLD something is totally unobstructed, then that is what they should get.

[disney6]

Just adding my 2 cents. Having never been in a verandah cabin (too many kids!) I would be VERY disappointed with this verandah! IMHO it is definately an obstructed view and should be priced as such.

[Hopkins]

my3kids: oops!, I learned something, I much prefer the open railing with the plexi-glass to the metal bottom verandah. So, if the metal bottom verandahs (which in my opinion are obstructed from below) are the same price as the plexi-glass veradahs, then even though the stateroom in question has a little obstruction above and to the right, it still has an awesome view elsewhere. It is definitely "less obstructed" than the metal bottom verandahs. I'm switching my opinion, the staterooms in question should stay in the same category, then. They are definitely not navigotor veradahs. I thought the plexi-glass bottom was an upgrade to the metal bottom verandahs`and the obstruction was 1/3 of the top view. The inside cabin cruiser learned something. LOL!

Tina :)

[Debbie H]

Cam,

I'm not really sure what DCL will do for you. They have brochures that show pictures of the rooms and where the rooms are located and the rooms are even on the web for everyone to see what type of stateroom they are getting. The travel agents have the pictures too, so your friend should have known exactly the type of stateroom you had.

As far as the gifts, did you give them back? The best way of letting someone know your displeasure is not accepting gifts given to you as a token to begin with. Did you take them to Guest Services and let them know that that was not what you wanted and not your idea of compensation and resolution?

My husband and I spoke to quite a few people on shore from other cruises and not one person from another cruise line had a nice thing to say about the cruise they were on. Pools had salt water, were not filled at the days at sea (what else to do at sea?), dining was in a large room all together. Staterooms small. We were glad we were on DCL after talking to them!
We are taking our 6th DCL cruise in November and loved every one of them. One we had a steel verandah, which if you sat, you couldn't see anything..but just to be on the cruise we didn't mind!

[Mjasp]

Deb... I must be missing something here. After all this talk, I still don't see anywhere how you could tell by brochures that the verandah has an obstructed view, also if it wasn't for these boards I wouldn't even know that some rooms have metal bottom verandahs. I have the large DCL catalog. Please tell me which page tells of the metal verandah and the verandah that Cam had.

I also would have been disappointed, if I didn't know in advance.

[paulmc80]

I sure wouldn't be able to tell what rooms have obstructed views from any pictures in on the websites and in the brochures.

I wouldn't be thrilled thinking I was getting a regular verandah type room and that is not really what I got. Especially after I specifically asked about the room.

I like this thread, its real interesting. :D

[Debbie H]

Well, whenever we book a stateroom, my husband (ex Navy doc) has the deck plans (they are on the Disney Cruise Line web site plus in the books) in front of him and a picture of the outside of the ship. He can find the room that they are talking about in an instant. That far back aft, looking at the pictures, there is going to be an obstruction of some sort. We mean no insult by this but if you have any familiarity of the ship at all, plus the deck plans, you should be able to figure it out. Once you leave the straight portion of the ship, the curved aft portion has no view of the front part of the ship and a very poor view of the side.

I might suggest in order to avoid disappointment , when you make your reservation and they assign you a room, have a deck plan handy and see exactly where they are going to put you and extrapolate what your view might be. He has, on more than one occassion, asked for a different stateroom at the time the reservation was being made because he didn't care for the location.

In Cams defense, they were told the room had an unobstructed view and that is what they should have had. They were still on the straight line of the ship. Looking at the deck plans only you would think it would be ok. Looking at a picture of the outside of the ship however, would have caused us some concern that there may be some sort of an obstruction from the way the steel curves.

As far as the steel bottom verandahs, you can also look at a picture of the outside of the ship and see those rooms.

[paulmc80]

I've been looking for a picture of either the Wonder or Magic to show my wife the room we'll be in from the outside. Its not a veranda room though .. its a cat 9, room 2566. Not that it realy matters to see it on the outside, but would be nice.

[Hopkins]

I feel bad for Cam because the stateroom they received is not what they were told from DCL, and that's were the mistake is. At DCL telephone representative end. I understand why they are upset.

Tina

[keenercam]

Hi, everyone!
It has been really interesting hearing all your input. In response to a couple of the inquiries, I wanted to make a couple of points.

First:
While I was talking to the CM, I had the following web page in front of me:
http://disneycruise.disney.go.com/disneycruiseline/ratesanddates/ships/deckindex?id=Deck6
You will note that the deck plan shows absolutely no curvature, but the next cabins aft are a different color and I asked whether there was a difference since 6634 was the last cabin in category 6 and was told absolutely not. The really ironic thing is that we easily "found" our cabin on the ship, looking from outside the terminal, because we were told it was the last full view. So, we counted to the 6th deck, found that obstruction, and pointed to the next cabin forward and told our friend Bob that that was our cabin--he even asked how we could tell, did we count all the way back? No, we actually just looked to the next verandah forward from that obstruction.

Second:
When I called DCL a couple of days ago and asked about that cabin, they told me again that the verandah is the same as all the others further forward.

Finally:
I am still upset that it took Guest Relations more than 3 days to even address the issue on the ship and then being told several times that someone would call us at home and that never happened.

For My3Kids--the door is 2 panels, so you can see that almost half of the straight-on view looking from the LR out to the verandah. UGH!! And if you were sitting on the verandah, you had to squish both chairs all the way to the left & put the little table to the right or in front of the chairs in order for both people to have a view.

For what it's worth . . .


Have a Disney Day, everyone,
Cam

[Mjasp]

As having only cruised once last May, and not knowing about cruise ships I would never think of counting back to see where my stateroom was from the outside. The inside yes as they have the plans laid out in the book. But c'mon, what person unless a seasoned cruiser would even know about obstructed views or metal verandahs and start counting on the outside where NO room numbers are even lissted, when its not even mentioned in the brochure. I'm sorry this is something that should be listed in the brochure. I was on the ship in May and if Cam didn't mention obstructed verandah's I still wouldn't have known there was such a thing. I do know about the metal verandahs but only from this board.

[Señor Ferrari]

I've been reading this thread with interest and am anxious to see how it plays out with DCL. I agree that with some research, you can have a better idea of exactly what to expect, but not everyone has the luxury of this community prior to boarding the ship for the first time. For example, on our first cruise, we stayed on deck 7 aft, and never knew about the "secret" balcony on the back of the ship.

While I would agree with those who would not have these rooms re-classified as a category 7, I think that at issue here is the misinformation given out by the reservations cast member. This person was specifically asked if there was an obstructed view on this verandah, and stated that there was not. I think DCL is accountable for this, and their attempts to make amends have fallen short at this point.

I think the "Cams" were very reasonable in their very well-worded request and were very rational about how they went about it. Sadly, if they had been more irrational about it, they might have gotten what they wanted while on the ship just to go away. Kudos to them for taking the high road. I agree that some kind of compensation is due. Perhaps not the full difference between categories, but maybe DCL could split the difference, especially considering they have another cruise already booked.

Please keep us up to date on what (if any) action DCL takes on this issue. Best of luck in dealing with them.

Also, if anyone has stayed in 7620 or 7120, I would be interested to hear about (or see a picture of) the verandahs in these rooms, as they seem to be even more obstructed then their counterparts on deck 6.

[Debbie H]

Mjasp,
We were not "seasoned" cruisers when we started and we still knew where our stateroom was. We did our homework.

I think the issue here is what Cam was told by a cast member. Being told that, there was no reason for them to think differently. I just commented, that knowing where the statetoom was located and looking at the outside of the ship, we would have been concerned. But again, that is the way we do it.

If you are unsure where the stateroom is and if it is important for you to know, I would certainly take the time to count or at least have an idea by looking at the outside of the ship.

I certainly hope she got the cast members name. We have a notebook that has all of our DVC info in it and any time reservations are made, even if it is somewhere other than Disney, it goes in the book with the date ressies were made, the time and who we spoke to. I guess being in the medical field we are so use to documenting everything that it is just a habit for us.

[taswira]

Debbie, I am just like you when it comes to research and knowing <I>exactly</I> what I am getting. It would have been very easy to look at the larger picture of the outside of the ship (in the big brochure), count the Navigator verandahs and then find their Cat. 6 by counting from there. And yes, it is clear that it was partially obstructed. The issue is that the CM told them it was totally unobstructed, so DCL was in error. The one thing I have learned through the years is that I NEVER take a sales person's (or reservationist's, etc.) word for anything unless I personally know and trust that person. It is a sad case when a customer can't trust the statements of those who are supposed to know their job, be it cruise line, airlines, computer stores or whatever. But that's how it is. They were not happy, and I wish them well in seeking compensation.

[Debbie H]

taswira,
AMEN!

[Mjasp]

Deb...We also are in the medical field and YES documenting is VERY important and it seems Cam seems to have documented everything. So good for her/him.

Hmmm...So now if I book on another line I am really in real trouble as I won't have this board and all the sea veterans. The Grand Princess looks like a tough one to decipher. I guess I'll have to stick to Disney and the room I know. Ahhh poor me having to stick with DCL.

[JOANNEL]

Cam & Howard,

I wish you the best on this. Please don't cancel your reservation. I know how much you guys love Disney. I think another line would be disappointing after sailing on the Magic. I have full confidence that Disney will make good. They rely on us tourists.

Good Luck,

Joanne & Roger

[TnRobin]

We have stayed in 7620 last September. Other than a slight curvature toward the top of the aft end of the veranda, I didn't notice any difference between it and the other veranda we had. Really I did not notice it much at all. I would not consider 7620 obstructed at all.

[piglet LS]

With all the reports of obstructed views we're starting to wonder if this room has any hidden surprises.

Appreciate any info....thanks!
Niola

[Ginny]

These boards are amazing.....I'm always learning something. If I had only known before that there was a direct correlation to being in the medical profession and a positive cruise outcome. And all this time I thought we had such wonderful cruises because of the kindness of other Dis'ers and these boards.

Well, the pressure is off for Christmas, 2003. Let me run and write that down. :cool:

[PiperG]

The one thing I have learned through the years is that I NEVER take a sales person's (or reservationist's, etc.) word for anything unless I personally know and trust that person. It is a sad case when a customer can't trust the statements of those who are supposed to know their job, be it cruise line, airlines, computer stores or whatever. But that's how it is.

As part of my job I oversee a Customer Service Center, and we are currently implementing sophisticated call quality technology. The folks here might want to ask if their initial reservation call had been recorded, and ask that a manager review that call. We often review calls to assess the escalated issues and determine if additional training or enhancements are needed.

Along those lines, a colleague of mine says that, as a child, her family planned a Disney vacation to the campground area of WDW. When they arrived in their camper, the resort had them in-bound the following day, leaving them stranded for a night. The parents complained and Disney ended up reviewing the reservation call, ultimately finding that the error was on Disney's part. They put the family up in one of the resort ootels for that one night.

Just a thought to add some punch to the complaint.

[Debbie H]

Ginny,

Being in the medical profession has no direct correlation with a positive cruise experience and I didn't think a smart remark was warranted. These cruises are what you make of them. We got much more out of our many trips to Disney World by talking to people who had been there first. Some of the information on these boards are not nearly as accurate as personal experience would suggest. Unfortunately, some people see the glass half empty then want to be comped for the missing water. Other people, and we count ourselves as this group, see the glass half full and search for ways to add more water.

It is our hope that Cam and Howard get this resolved to their satisfaction. We think it is unfortunate that they didn't get the view that they expected. If DCL thinks this is significant enough to comp them, then I congratulate them for their efforts to get this rectified. If the success of their whole cruise hinged on the time spent on the verandah, then they missed out on a lot of opportunities to have fun on the boat.

The disappointment of glossy folder vacations not withstanding, we believe that important information can be shared on boards such as this and we appreciate the advice and experience of others and have used this board to that purpose many times. Even so, some of the fun of any vacation, especially the Disney Cruise is the discovery of things no one mentioned or may have even observed.

The only advice I can bring from the medical profession is that if it is not documented, with the date, time and name of any important encounter, then it didn't happen. We wish everybody the best and wouldn't trade our DCL experiences for anything.:cool:

[taswira]

Please know that my reference to customer service and sales people was not to imply that none of them are knowledgeable in their jobs. My statement was to remind people that there are uncaring and incompetent workers out there <I>along with</I> the caring and competent, as well as many who are new at their jobs. If you don't have a longstanding working relationship with them, it is difficult to tell the difference. The <I>safest</I> route is to make yourself as knowledgeable about a product as possible and know exactly what you are getting, and not completely rely on the sales person. Unfortunately, this takes a lot of time and effort and is impossible for many, who can only hope they end up with the <I>better</I> customer service personnel. These boards help <I>a lot</I> of people, but as was pointed out, along with the serious, seasoned cruise veterans who give valuable information, there are often posts which are not-quite-factual. In the end, we are each responsible as individuals for what we decide and what it was based upon.

[Californiaamy]

It sounds like KeenHo did his due diligence pre-cruise when booking his room, and still ran afoul of an ill-informed cast member -- we just had the same experience, but thanks to this thread, we were able to catch it.

We've just booked on the 10/5 Magic cruise in October, and chose a "navigator's verandah" room 5638. We're first time cruisers, but thought we had done our due diligence as well, looking at drawings and pricing different options. After asking explicitly about rooms and verandahs and what you got for the difference in price, we were told twice that the difference is the navigator's verandah has a solid metal rail, not the bars and plexiglass.

The drawings on the web site and in the brochure do not at all show the true difference as to what a navigator's verandah is....they just outline the porch area and you cannot possibly see what your view is. And there are no renderings of the ship looking at it straight on that I've been able to find....and should I really have to find a picture of the boat and figure out where my room is and count back by looking at the picture to RE-re-confirm what I've chosen? Most pictures of the ship are at an angle and hard to determine this.

After seeing this discussion thread, I did more research and found a true picture of a navigator's verandah...it's basically an enclosed porch with a port hole, located in the section behind KeenHo's room. (I found this picture on the Platinum Castaway Club web site -- great info -- at

http://www.angelfire.com/my/disneycruiser/nverand.htm )

This is NOT AT ALL what we were told, nor what we were expecting. I would have been furious to have arrived in that room and found a big porthole for a verandah. I was expecting something exactly like Barb & Tony's favorite room -- here's their info on the metal versus plexiglass verandahs:

http://www.angelfire.com/my/disneycruiser/metal.htm

We re-booked today to a different room, and let the CM know that we'd been given mis-information, but I plan on writing them a letter.

Unfortunately, you can't trust information that you get from customer service representatives, even if you check and re-check, which is infortunate. When you're spending these bucks, and researching diligently, you expect the information to be correct. I bet Howard and Cam, even if refunded the difference in the price of the room, still feel they lost more than the $100-$200 difference in room price when their expectations for how they were going to relax once on board wasn't met.and

[Dave_from_Marietta]

Originally posted by Californiaamy

After asking explicitly about rooms and verandahs and what you got for the difference in price, we were told twice that the difference is the navigator's verandah has a solid metal rail, not the bars and plexiglass.

I was originally under that misconception about the Navigator's Verandah when I first started posting on this board over a year ago. It wasn't until I saw the excellent photos and descriptions on Barb's site that I had a better concept of the differences between the verandahs (see-through and steel, and Navigator's). But I think it's inexcusable that the CM you spoke to on the phone was so poorly trained.

[Cruise]

I agree with Dave, that it's inexcusable that some of the reservation agents are so poorly trained. When someone is putting down a lot of money on their "vacation of a lifetime," and they ask *specific* questions, they deserve to have those questions answered correctly.

It seems that maybe the training for this is a few sessions of "this is what the ship is like." It's entirely possible that when the navigator's verandahs were described to this particular CM, they got the impression that it was just the metal vs. plexiglass. But how hard would it be for Disney to actually show the CM's pictures? *We've* seen the pictures....surely Disney could get pictures of their own ships from somewhere.....

Julie

[taswira]

I agree, Cruise. CM's <I>should</I> undergo thorough familiarization training. Have they all (or any) actually <B>been aboard</B> the ships? My first cruise was DCL's "Cruise College" cruise, which was the 3-day Wonder and included in-depth classroom seminars <I>and</I> a walking tour of the different stateroom categories. From that point on, I knew what I was talking about when speaking with DCL reservations. But did they? You would think DCL would at least give the land-based CMs an in-port tour of the ship!

[KeenHo]

We are currently waiting for a response from Disney, which will probably come in writing. Thank you for all the comments and tips that are being shared with everyone. We will keep you all posted. Have a great week!

Howard

[keenercam]

Hi, everyone!! I sent the link to this thread (wanted DCL to read everyone's perspective) and received the following:

7/26/02

Thank you for your e-mail and for your facsimile to Joel.

I can assure you that we are familiar with the DISBoards and that your comments concerning your stateroom have been shared with the appropriate management teams.

Over the years, several changes have been implemented to our cruise vacations. We are always looking for ways to improve the Disney Cruise Line experience and have found that our guests' comments are often extremely helpful. Listening to you helps to make us better, and we appreciated hearing your views. Though it may take time for all of our guest comments to be researched and evaluated we are dedicated to refining our operation where necessary. Thank you for your input.

You may expect a reply from Joel via postal mail within the next two to three weeks.

Sincerely,

__________, Guest Communications
Disney Cruise Line

I am thrilled that DCL knows about the DIS boards and that they consider the opinions of their guests. We are eagerly awaiting a response, and we will keep all of you posted.

Cam

[aseafish]

Thanks for sharing their response. Good luck on a positive resolution to this.

[Doctor P]

Good luck!

[Señor Ferrari]

Originally posted by piglet LS
With all the reports of obstructed views we're starting to wonder if this room has any hidden surprises.

Appreciate any info....thanks!
Niola

Looking at the deck plan, this room is forward of the aft elevators and solid metal verandahs. Should be no problems with 8576.

[lpursell]

I'm new and learning a lot! We are planning to book our January 2003 cruise within the next two weeks. We are going to book one category 6 (because of the verandah), one category 9 and one category 11. Where can I learn about the staterooms? I would want an un-obstructed view from my verandah and the least likely to get motion sickness. Thanks so much!

Also I'm wondering about renting tuxedos for the guys rather than packing their suits. Does anyone know what the rental fee is?

[Dave_from_Marietta]

Originally posted by lpusell

Where can I learn about the staterooms? I would want an un-obstructed view from my verandah and the least likely to get motion sickness.I have a list of verandah types, listed by room number, at my web site...

www.dcltribute.com/faq/outsiderooms.htm

As far as minimizing motion, you'll want to go lower. There are a limited number of Category 6 verandah cabins on Deck 5 with transparent verandah railings. You might want to look at those.

I'm wondering about renting tuxedos for the guys rather than packing their suits. Does anyone know what the rental fee is? DCL's preferred vendor is www.cruiselineformal.com. Prices tend to run around $85. You could probably get a better deal at home, but with Cruiseline Formalwear, you don't have to haul the tux to the ship or take it off the ship. It'll be waiting in your stateroom and be picked up from your stateroom.

[hydster]

I have NEVER been on the Disney ships so I have no idea. I just went with the cabins that Dreams told me we were booked in and never looked back! I did some research and found out that we have a plexiglass verandah and the inlaws have a navigator verandah and I assume we are midship on the 8th deck room number 8550 and hoping that SOMEONE has stayed in this room and can tell me it is a great room! The inlaws are staying in 7626 in a Navigator Verandah and hopefully someone knows about that room too!
I cant find a picture of the ship that I can figure out anything from it...I have a DCL brochure but there is no real upclose picture of the ship...does anyone have one I can use to look at our 2 cabins???
Thanks!
Heidi

[Señor Ferrari]

The best info on the staterooms I have is the deck plan in the brouchure. It's also online at the Disney Cruise Line website. Regarding the verandahs, all of the category 4, 5, and 6 rooms which are forward of the category 7 rooms have a clear plexiglass railing, with the exception of the the ones in question on this thread (7120, 7620, 6134, 6634). No word as yet on the two category 6's which are directly forward of the category 7's on deck 5 (5130, 5630), but looking at a photo of the ship, it doesn't look like these have much of an obstruction, if any.

Hydster, I've stayed in 7624, and like the location a lot. There are some good pictures of the Navigator's verandah at Barb's website (link (http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/brigham/612//nverand.htm)). Dave's site, referenced above, has great info as well.

[Mickey4Me]

worried that I was going to be unhappy with my room 6632... Fear not, 6632 is a wonderful location with a great verandah view! We had the same cabin on our June 29th cruise and loved it. Close to the aft elevators/stairs so you can make a quick dash to the Deck 9 drink station for early AM coffee.

I can empathize with kennercam about 6634 though. It does have a very limited view and our cruise neighbor was very disappointed with it as well.:(

[Michelle]

Heidi, you're in a GREAT room, do not worry. :)

For pictures of the balcony in a navigator's verandah stateroom you can check out www.***************** .

[hydster]

Thanks for your kind words and encouragement!!! I am getting so excited and now hearing from people that the rooms are in good locations makes me that much more excited!:teeth:

Thanks to all of you again!
Heidi:earsgirl:

[strawberryblonde]

Thanks Cam for letting us all know about this room (and Dave for the pics). I would have been VERY dissapointed with this room and it's view. I have been well informed by these boards about so much but this particular thing has not come up that I have seen. Best of luck on recieving your letter, please update when it arrives. Sorry this happened after all of your planning.

I vote for Disney to disclose about these obstructions and to disclose about the metal verandahs as well.

[keenercam]

Heidi--
Thank you for your support. Fortunately, many DISers have agreed with our position. Hopefully, their & your support will have a positive impact for others in the future. I agree that there is no other way at present for people to be informed of this situation. It is really hard to pay for something and to get something different (significantly less) from everyone else who paid the same price.
Have a Disney Day!
Cam

[lpursell]

I booked because I got nervous after reading these posts! Thank you so much for all the good information. After reading your posts I knew exactly what I wanted. We got 6132 on the 1/18/03 Western Caribbean! Cam, I agree with you and I would have been disappointed also. Thank you for letting us know and keep us informed regarding any response from Disney.

I've learned so much from this board!

[Dave_from_Marietta]

Cam and Howard...

...based on your reports, I have added one page and updated another page to the FAQ at my site. Hopefully this will help to warn future cruisers.

www.dcltribute.com/faq/outsiderooms.htm

...and...

www.dcltribute.com/faq/obstructedviews.htm

[KeenHo]

Dave-

The two additions to your site will undoubtedly educate many future DIS'ers as to the verandah options, styles and possible obstructions. I hope it is sucessful in warning others who may book these (obstructed view) rooms with other expectations. Thank you.

Howard

[BriarfoxinWA]

Thanks Dave!

You have a great informational site - I'm sure other's have said it but, for planning a first Disney Cruise, Your site is a wonderful resource!!

[my3kids]

If Disney is reading this....here is my suggestion. Price the metal verandahs and the obstructed verandahs at the same price level as the navigator's verandah. They could be called category 7n for navigator style or category 7m for metal obstructions of various kinds. (My opinion, the metal bottomed are a major obstruction, the funky beams a minor one) Then some of category 7 is available for parties of 4, and no one who books a cat. 6 gets disappointed or ends up with a view they neither expected nor wanted. Otherwise inform the people booking that these are not the verandahs pictured in the book and let the customer decide. If you aren't willing to change the category level or inform the customers, then don't book people into these unless they specifically request the room, or approve of the obstructions. They could be used as overflow rooms where you used them for upgrades to free up cabin space in the lower categories. Who wouldn't be thrilled with the pictured verandah if they were expecting a category 11? Getting off my soapbox now......

[Laura24]

Gosh,
Where would we all be without this great forum of information. I just love the fact that we can all share the good and bad experiences and learn from each other. Having read the thread start to finish,I feel The Cams disappointment and I couldn't help myself from constantly looking at my cabin numbers (two staterooms) and wondering. I think we are safe......6140 and 6142. I don't expect anything more than an enclosed verandah and am thankful for the sharing and caring around here between us.:)
Thanks also to Dave for the additional FAQ info on his site. It has been a great wealth of knowledge for my trip planning.:Pinkbounc

[Señor Ferrari]

I like my3kids' suggestion of adding new categories. I'm researching our fall Princess cruise, and they have all manner of categories for staterooms. There's one type which has only 4 cabins, but it is in it's own class and has it's own pricing structure. This class, I think it's called BF, has it's own balcony, but also has the promenade going by it. It's the same size as other balcony cabins, but does not have the same view.

Other cruise ships seem to have many more category types than the Magic and Wonder. I'm wondering if this was done for simplicity's sake. I'm all for simplicity, but it becomes a problem when one category 6 does not equal another.

[KeenHo]

Just want to keep all of you posted on the progress (or lack there of) on the written response from Disney. We are still waiting. We will be sure to post the correspondence when we get it. Thank you, have a great weekend!

Howard

[Dave_from_Marietta]

How long has it been since you sent the letter, Howard? Is it time to escalate yet?

[sandee]

I felt the same way you did after we received a "blow-off" letter from DCL along with an 8"stuffed mickey, a plastic picture frame and a book. We'd written to complain about my 9 y.o. grand dtr. being served a strawberry daquiri, which we didn't discover until she'd drank 1/2 of it. We thought it was a virgin straw. daquiri and we were not happy with how casually it was handled when we complained on the ship. We were not looking for anything material from DCL, just wanted someone to express the fact that this was a serious mistake. (If this happened in a restaurant here at home, someone could lose their liquor license!). At the time she drank it ,all the CM who served her and the person from guest services kept saying was,"the cost of the drink has been deducted from your bill"... it really made me wonder how many other kids have accidently gotten real drinks.

GO BLUE HENS!!

[keenercam]

We faxed the letter to DCL on 7/23. On 7/25, I sent Joel the link to this thread. On 7/26, I got the email from Guest Relations saying that we should expect a reply by postal mail in the next 2 - 3 weeks. Today is 2 weeks. Still no word.
We are truly hopeful that Disney's response will resolve this. If we don't hear from them by 8/16, we will have to take the next step. I just don't know yet what that should be. So far, it seems DCL really just doesn't care -- I'm sure they just figure we are only one family and they are having no problems booking their cabins, so why should they do anything to accommodate us?

BTW, funny enough, yesterday we got a castaway club mailing urging us to explore their new western itinerary. :confused: How funny is that, considering we sailed the 6/22 western? Very bizarre:eek:

Have a great day everyone!

[plutojudy]

We must remember it is not a perfect world. Disney lets people down too.

[KeenHo]

In a letter of response dated August 5, 2002 Disney responds:

"Thank you for your e-mails, letter and facsimile regarding the letter I sent to you on July 17, 2002. It has been forwarded to my attention, and I appreciate this opportunity to address your concerns once again.

Please allow me to reiterate my heartfelt regret for any miscommunication or disappointment with your stateroom verandah. I can assure you that it is never our intention to mislead our guests about any aspect of our operation. Our company recognizes the necessity of accurate information, and every effort is made to enable all of our Disney Cruise Line representatives to consistently provide the most accurate information to our travel partners and guests. I would also like to apologize if particular individuals onboard our cruise ship did not reflect to you the high standards of courtesy and professionalism for which our cast and crew are known. Your comments have been shared with the appropriate shipboard and shoreside management individuals.

Furthermore, your comments, in addition to those received by other guests concerning those particular stateroom verandahs, are being considered for reclassification. However, we feel that the stateroom amenities and complimentary rentals at Disney's Castaway Cay, valued at $90, are fair and equitable for these circumstances. Please be assured, though, that we will continue to strive to provide our guests with the finest vacation and entertainment experiences, and we are truly grateful for your valuable input to help us achieve that goal.

Although we are unable to provide you with an alternative solution to your concerns, we want you to know that it would be our pleasure to welcome you aboard the Disney Magic once again. We hope you will reconsider returning to Disney Cruise Line.

Sincerely,

Executive Guest Correspondent
Disney Cruise Line"


Our comment is forthcoming..... We'd love to hear yours... Thanks.

Howard

[aseafish]

That is a totally inadequate response from Disney. I am disappointed in DCL to say the least.:mad: :( Disney lets people down too. The understatement of the year.

[taswira]

All things considered, it is <I>exactly</I> the response I expected. However, I <I>am</I> sorry things were not resolved to your satisfaction.

[paulmc80]

I don't like the response, just feels to me like something missing there. No committment on their part or something like that. Just doesn't feel right to me. Especially since you all clearly checked about the view.

Sorry to hear that is the best they can do. Doesn't seem very imaginative to me.

[kmoore]

It's quite likely that DCL is not willing/able to do more by way of compensation because they would be setting a precedent which would be the basis for having to reimburse all past cruisers in that cabin. I wouldn't be surprised if that is their thinking in sticking with the "$90" worth of gifts/services.

Karen

[WDWLVR]

I've sat back and watched this for a few weeks waiting to hear what Disney's reponse was. Like Taswira I agree that it was pretty much what I expected. I guess the only difference from most of you is that it doesn't disappoint me. I think it was an honest and thought out letter that said they would cover the mis-communication with those on the ship so that it doesn't happen again. It stated that based on your comments and others (either from this board or elsewhere) that they will look into reclassification of this particular room. Then they state that they feel the compensation you have gotten to date (the room ammenities and $90 worth of Castaway Cay rentals is a fair trade for this. If they did re-classify the room that would be about a $200 savings (based on a regular veranda vs. a Navigator veranda). It sounds like what they gave you on board comes close to that.

I, too, am sorry if it wasn't the response you wanted, but like Karen said they are most likely not able to offer other deals or they would be swamped with many people wanting compensation for this and other things.

Disney has shown that they listen, and they got back to you in the time frame promised. At this point I would let it go and remember the good parts of the cruise of which I hope there are many for you.

[Hygiene99]

well, the room has been noted on Dave's site and im sure Barb and Tony will have a note on this stateroom as well so ..
some good has come of this .. for future cruisers..
doing there home work , i know what u where told and i hate when that happens u think u r doing the right thing and u get Screwed.. same kind of thing happened to us
with excursion The JEEP SAFARI tour on the western route..
i did mention it to some one at the desk ...... and it seems they have gotten it straitened out....
AFTER watching Stateroom Tv. we decided to book JEEP
Excursion... when we got to the vehicles they where Geo Trackers not JEEPS and we also thought that for $85.00 EACH
we would have own JEEP No 2 other people where placed in this GEO TRACKER...... and u had too share the driving time
as well ........ was not happy with this whole thing dont get me wrong we did have fun on the excursion but it was just the little things..... Peter.........
KEENHO what would u like us to do im am willing to email or call The nice folk at dcl there is also somebody the screename Shipahoy on this board that works for DCL....

would like to keep the issue alive in DCls mind so that this room get reclassified to cat 7 then u would think it was great sort of like Secret porthole rooms

[MarkRG]

I am sorry you feel that DCL is letting you down in some way. I would be a little disappointed on the hull of the ship blocking some of the view. Being an engineer I can tell that picture posted was taken from the left side of the cabin, not straight out the door. There is no real way to determine from it as to how obstructed the view really was.

The mistake that was made was not even by the castmember you booked it with but whoever classified it a full view in the first place. All that castmember is a person in front of a pc with a map layout of the ship. Just like when you booked your next one onboard. They don't need to know the exact layout of every room, as they are supposed to have good information on that from others already.

As a DVC member and Disney shareholder I am going to be practical.

As an engineer I may be blunt.

My opinion is that what you have gotten in response in enough. I would not condone them going overboard in compensation to anyone on such a matter.

I would point out my opinion is NOT just based on what was posted in this thread alone.

Consider these reports from KeenHo:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2133615#post2133615

And,

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1981256#post1981256

And,

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1976467#post1976467

I honestly don't see from reading these threads how it so heavily impacted the trip. In fact there's no mention of it at all until the other thread discussing verandahs came along. :/

My apologies if this comes off heavy handed, but I think the whole trip is not being seen from this thread alone.

[taswira]

I just read those threads, Mark. Gee - From reading THIS thread I thought the "bad verandah" had "totally ruined" their vacation. I guess NOT!

[paulmc80]

Oh shucks. Don't think they all ever said it totally ruined the vacation, but that it was a major disappointment. Which I can certainly see. Don't believe anyone wanted any large compensation either.

From what I see though, and in my experience in dealing with large organizations (namely corporations), a letter like this basically means nothing will be done. Or it certainly remains to be done that is for sure. The lack of mentioning any names or titles of persons spoken to or handling this indicates, to me anyway, it probably is just a lot of rhetoric. I for one would have taken a very different tact. Notably inviting the customer to contact me again or to even contact the person more directly responsible for correcting the situation in order to ensure it was being handled.

Just my $0.02 .... maybe less with inflation since I had it for awhile.

[my3kids]

Maybe Disney really can't offer compensation because of the very public nature of the correspondence.....they knew if they made you happy that it would be on the internet and give others the idea that they were willing to financially settle any inconvenience. Maybe they do privately make adjustments to unhappy sailors....but they couldn't in this public of a forum. I have no idea if this is what has happened here or not. But I think knowing just how public their response would be may have tied their hands.

If the rest of the cruise was that enjoyable, enough to rebook on board, I wouldn't let the verandah issue ruin the future vacation. Just pick a cabin you are sure is an open verandah and have a great time.:D

[AnnMorin]

I never replied to this thread after seeing the pictures because I did not want my opinion to hurt any chances you had in getting a refund from disney. Now that they have replied I do feel free to say what I think. After viewing the photos I frankly can not understand why you could not use your veranda?! yes a small portion of it had a metal bend in it but 90 percent was a clear view. I can relate to being dissapointed by to say you could not enjoy coffee out there etc. seems a bit much to me. You would have helped your case much more with me had you not posted the photo. Also I had no idea that the comps you got were worth so much ($90) It seems like you are asking an awful lot. On our second cruise our bed was not up to par with the last one (it kept seperating) should disney have to comp me for that? In Disney's defence they did try to make you happier and did not egnore you, it seems that by faxing them this thread you were trying to bully them or at least that may be how they viewed it. I am truely sorry if you feel like you did not get what you deserved and do understand feeling dissapointment but just do not understand why you found the veranda unusable?

[Mickey4Me]

We were in the cabin next to to 6634 and believe me, the view was more than 10% blocked! Shortly after boarding and making it to our stateroom (6632) I discovered that we had the dining tickets for our next door neighbors so I stepped over and knocked on the door. When our neighbor opened the door, we stood and chatted for a min and I noticed that looking out through her verandah, about half her view was blocked by the metal curvature. Two people could definitely not sit out there without one staring at a metal wall. I went back and told DH that the cabin next door was a Navigator's verandah. Later in the week in another conversation with our neighbor, she told us she had paid for a full verandah and was upset to see that her's was almost 50% blocked. I don't blame her. The least Disney should have done was refund the difference in verandah vs Navigator's. Forget the cheese tray and stuffed Mickey etc (which DID NOT cost DCL $90)! I find it hard to imagine that anyone paying for a certain level of accomodation and getting less than they paid for would not be upset.

[shmoogrrrl]

I'm a bit confused about what you wanted to happen. Would it have made you happier if the letter mentioned that they had terminated the person who took your reservation?

I think that Disney has gone out of their way to make it up to you. Sure, they didn't refund your money or offer a shipboard credit for your next cruise, but I wouldn't expect them to do that.

I'm throwing my hat in the "Disney has responded appropriately" camp. If the little metal piece that looked as though it took up 10% (if that!) of your balcony (from your own picture) ruined your whole trip, then youly wouldn't have been happy no matter WHAT DCL did.

Kathy

[mcnuss]

I've been quietly lurking out here, too, waiting to see what DCL's response would be and reserving my opinion until then. I also have to say that I think that the response you got was adequate and appropriate. I am also confused as to what would have satisfied you...it seems like nothing short of a big refund or the sacking of the reservation rep....please forgive me if I have miscontrued your intent, but that's what it seems like from here. I feel bad saying it, but for what it's worth, I cannot imagine what more DCL should do for you. Bottom line, we expect more from Disney, but they are just a company like any other.

[dis4me]

Also A lurker to this thread I think the last few psoters have missed the point. It is my understanding( I could be wrong) that the original poster wanted the rooms to be reclassified so that future cruisers will know what they are getting before they get there.I have been on 2 cruises and am planning a third in Nov and I would be very disappointed if I paid the same as someone with an unobstructed view even if it was only partially obstructed.I know we all pay different prices based on TAs, time of booking and incentives, HOwever these rooms really should be labeled accordingly.
The gifts Disney offered,although nice, were pacifying to say the least.I don't think the poster was asking for much. But I do think an offer of the difference between an unobstructed view and what these should be classified as( which is probably $200 or less) towards their next cruise is too much to ask for. After all they did their research and were misinformed by Disney and the websites.

Just my $.02 Please don't flame me.

[KeenHo]

First, I am speaking for myself and not my DW (Cam). I appreciate all of the comments and well wishes to this point and the opposing view points in the "DCL Camp." I though it might be good to answer some questions.

The "gifts" were not asked for nor enjoyed. The cheese tray came just moments before we were dining at Palos. We did not use or enjoy it. (We could have gotten many things better and more timely from the regular room service menu at no charge.) The stuffed Mickey "angel" was not expected or wanted. It was simply just placed on our bed one evening. The Castaway Cay rentals for snorkel gear were not used. The gifts just started showing up... sent to placate us no doubt. They are in NO WAY "fair and equitable for these circumstances." We are more than willing to send back the Mickey "angel" and the signed Mickey Mouse photo print from Shutters to the Executive Guest Correspondent. Maybe they can re-use them for the next cruisers in Cabin #6634 who are unhappy about the verandah.

Mickey4Me is correct, a large portion of the viewing area on the verandah was taken up with the metal portion of the ship's exterior. I would guess about 50%. The photo that was posted by Dave does not accurately depict it. The design of the cabin did not allow for a great view of it through the curtains and doorway. You'd really need to be there, which we were.

The verandah issue did not ruin our whole trip. However, it certainly ruined our enjoyment and planned use of the verandah which is the only issue here. The bottom line is that we were told one thing by a CM and received another. I have stated to my DW that I would be satisfied if DCL were to offer the following compensation:

Since we got a 1/2 view verandah, I'd like to receive 1/2 credit for the difference we paid for the stateroom with the verandah. I don't think this is asking too much. I would take it as a credit towards our next cruise. I would also like the rooms to be reclassified for future cruisers.

No doubt, some good has come of this issue. Many future cruisers have learned of these obstructed view verandahs through this thread. I am happy about that. However, I do feel that "something is missing" in their response. Namely the admission of responsibility for the CM in giving out the mis-information.

We have booked 2 adjoining rooms for April 2004, which we are planning to change to June 2004. If this is the final response from Disney, we've got some tough decisions to make about our bookings.

To keep this issue alive, I would ask that you write, e-mail or call Disney Cruise Lines to seek the reclassification of these obstructed view rooms. Our collective goal should be to protect others, in the future, who deserve nothing short of what they are paying for.... a Magical cruise experience.

Thank you.

Howard

[Doctor P]

I am very sorry that you were disappointed, and I am very sorry you did not get the answer or satisfaction you hoped for. IMHO, DCL gave your complaint individualized attention and a personalized response. In these situations, I have always tried to make it my policy to expect only that they make an effort to make things right at a level commensurate with the inconvenience or harm that I have been done. I know that these things can be very frustrating, but, whether you like the effort they made or not, DCL did make an effort and did it while you were on the cruise rather than trying to deal with it later. It sounds to me like there was only one thing that would make you and DW happy under these circumstances, and you did not get that credit. Unfortunately, that makes for unhappiness more times than not. Typically when I am in these circumstances, I give them a choice of things that will make me happy and let them choose the one that they are most comfortable with. I recognize that it doesn't sound like you had that option since they started giving you things right away (and things that you didn't want). I didn't go back to see what you ultimately did with the things, but perhaps you could donate them to some needy children or to a hospital (not the cheese tray for heaven's sake! ;) . That might make some lemonade out of these lemons (and talk with your tax advisor about whether there might be a tax deduction). Again, I am sorry you did not get satisfaction, but I am encouraged by the personal response you got.

[Buschfan]

Unfortunately, it sounds like the same folks are still working at DCL's office in Celebration. I am not really surprised by their response. I would just give my business to another cruise line. You can get much more for your money elsewhere. DCL stating the full retail price of what they gave you is an insult. It is no way what they gave you cost DCL $90. If you want to pursue any further, I would suggest contacting the Florida Attorney General in that you were sold an obstructed view stateroom when requesting an unobstructed view. It is disgusting the way problems are handled after a cruise by their headquarters in Celebration.

It is even worse when they are not promising to reclassify these cabins or to indicate the obstruction. The very least, they could of promised that these cabins will indicate an obstruction in the future. It would be up to future cruisers if they want to pay full price for the cabin or not. To hide the fact that these cabins have an obstruction is just plain wrong!

[offwego]

How about if DCL reps have a digital photo of each room's view., or at least the ones in "popular contention." This would not take much effort on their part. Then the DCL agent could email the picture on request of any potential customer. If I'm buying my wife some jewelry, I look at the piece under a magnifying glass first. If I'm buying a car, I look it over and even test drive it. Why should it be any different when "buying" this product?
Just a thought about improving things.
Buzz
A big Secret Porthole fan, in part because of the pictures I saw before hand.

[Ginny]

I have followed this thread closely for many reasons and I am very disappointed in DCL's response. I find it exceptionally weak and not in keeping with their own standards. Whether or not you concur with Howard and Cam's perception of the verandah's impact on their cruise doesn't seem relevant to me because it is their perception and no one else’s. What was interesting to me was how DCL handled the issue. These are Disney's own words: "Exceeding expectations rather than simply satisfying them is the cornerstone to customer service" (Be Our Guest -Perfecting the Art of Customer Service - Disney Institute)

IMHO, their response is in conflict with the information that Disney disseminates as an organization regarding "Service Recovery." Disney markets their concept of Quality Service and "bumping the lamp" for thousands of dollars through courses and published materials. Again, IMHO they blew it on several counts:

- The initial reservation agent had incomplete information. In this age of technology, there is no excuse for any reservation agent not to be able to provide complete information - especially when a specific question is asked. They need to look at the education and training of their front line personnel and they need to revamp their computer system to provide accurate info to customers. If I know ahead of time that I have a handicap access room or a metal verandah vice plexiglass and I still choose to book the stateroom, I will be much happier than someone who asks the question, is given inaccurate info and is surprised. Fix the DCL databases and review staff training.

- The DCL Guest Services Rep on board the Magic did a lackluster job. The concept of "Service Recovery" is not to just throw a bunch of remedies at a wall and see what sticks but to assess how best to fix this individual situation. I'm not looking for a cheese tray that I never asked for or a stuffed toy or free Castaway Cay rentals. What was needed was for DCL to provide validation of Cam and Howard's
"perception" that their reservation was handled inappropriately and that their "perception” matters to DCL! It would have cost DCL a very minimal amount to have been creative and invited the couple to a special breakfast (no different than Concierge Room Service) up on Deck 10 (in the private area where I've seen private gatherings held) and provided them a real memory with an incredible view than any verandah. Perhaps even asked the CAPT or 1st Officer to stop by to say "Good Morning." A very small cost for "bumping the lamp" for this customer. But, again, you just don't throw this at them, you invite the guests to participate and see if they are interested. It wouldn't be good headwork to just call them and tell them to show up cause the food's waiting. There is a big difference between the staff just doing something so they can say they tried and “exceeding the guest’s expectations.”

- In a corporate response, to what has now been allowed to become a "service problem," don't condescend to the customer and tell them that the value of the things that the Guest Services Rep gave them (that they never asked for or wanted) should more than made up for their displeasure and disappointment. It would be different if DCL called ahead and offered the cheese tray as a small token and Cam and Howard had accepted it. But, if something arrives and is unsolicited, it has no value. And, the items given certainly were not worth $90.00.

DCL has had multiple opportunities to repair this situation at several junctures and they could have turned it around to a “WOW” situation. I sincerely believe that DCL has the wrong people in the executive suites for Customer Relations because whomever wrote that letter (and allowed it to be mailed) just “doesn’t get it.”

[SlyHubby]

Originally posted by Ginny
It would have cost DCL a very minimal amount to have been creative and invited the couple to a special breakfast (no different than Concierge Room Service) up on Deck 10 (in the private area where I've seen private gatherings held) and provided them a real memory with an incredible view than any verandah. Perhaps even asked the CAPT or 1st Officer to stop by to say "Good Morning." A very small cost for "bumping the lamp" for this customer. But, again, you just don't throw this at them, you invite the guests to participate and see if they are interested. It wouldn't be good headwork to just call them and tell them to show up cause the food's waiting. There is a big difference between the staff just doing something so they can say they tried and “exceeding the guest’s expectations.”

I agree with absolutely everything you posted except this. Again, it is another example of throwing things at them that they didn't ask for (whether you "invite" them and treat it as an "offer" or not). The right response would have been to find a better room - even if that meant a category upgrade at no charge, or if none were available then to acknowledge the mistake and provide a refund for the difference or credit for the difference on a future cruise. I completely agree that throwing things at the guest that they didn't ask for (regardless of what anyone perceives as the value) is not the proper way to handle it. The guest was given a "perception" of the product they had purchased, and those expectations were not met.

They were looking for a remedy (rightfully so) and it didn't happen - simply bad "customer" service.

[SlyHubby]

Originally posted by my3kids
Maybe Disney really can't offer compensation because of the very public nature of the correspondence.....they knew if they made you happy that it would be on the internet and give others the idea that they were willing to financially settle any inconvenience. Maybe they do privately make adjustments to unhappy sailors....but they couldn't in this public of a forum. I have no idea if this is what has happened here or not. But I think knowing just how public their response would be may have tied their hands.

TOTAL HOGWASH!

I seriously doubt that had anything at all to do with it. But, giving you the benfit of the doubt that it may have been the issue, think what a coup it would have been for Disney to have totally satisfied these customers and the raves Disney would have received in return in this public forum.

Maybe there are companies that operate the way you claim, not Disney.

[keenercam]

Hi, everyone. Thanks again for all of your opinions. I think DH's (KeenHo) post clarifies that we never said this issue ruined our cruise. We had an absolutely fabulous time. No doubt about it. Ask any of the other DISers that we partied with all week-- no doubt we LOVED the cruise!
Please remember that the verandah is as important to the cruise experience as it is to book a category 6 instead of the category 9 we had last year. It was a splurge for us. Totally not worth it, based on what we got. Sometimes the disappointment that comes with having your expectations let down is greater than it might appear to an objective observer.
I only ask you to consider this -- would any one here be less than disappointed if this had happened to him or her? Be honest with yourself and the other posters here. Seriously, how would you have reacted if you had researched and researched and considered and then . . . what you get is different not only from what everyone else got when they paid for the same thing, but, more importantly, different from what you were told you were getting. Can anyone honestly say that they would have just said, "oh, that's okay, we are just so lucky to be here and we should be grateful for whatever we get"? That is illogical. No one gave us this trip. We didn't get an upgrade that we should have been happy with. We didn't settle for this cabin because nothing else was available. We chose it basedon information given to us by DCL. The reality is that we paid for something more than what we received.
One last point -- we all have the privilege and pleasure of sharing with each other our planning, our tips, and our experiences. Others who have read this post before they sailed have contacted us to tell us that they have changed their cabin from 6634 to a full-view verandah. I cannot begin to tell you how happy that makes me. If one other family is able to better enjoy the cabin/verandah aspect of their cruise because of the information they have garnered on this thread, I am thrilled.
Dave, thank you again for your willingness to post the information on your site. I just feel sorry for any DCL cruisers who don't use this site or yours and who unknowingly pay full price for any of those cabins with an obstructed view.
Cam

[taswira]

I am so curious about the view from that cabin that on my next DCL cruise, I'm going to ask the people in that stateroom if they'd mind if I come shoot a straight-on, wide-angle photo of that verandah. :rolleyes:

[mrsltg]

Cam and Howard-

I cannot thank you enough for the valuable information that you posted. As I previously stated, DH, DD and I are cruising on the 12/6/03 Magic.... we were supposed to be in 6634. That has changed!!! You have really gone to great lengths to ensure that everyone who reads these boards knows that the DCL brochure is not telling the entire truth in describing this cabin.

I am sorry that your complaint fell on (mostly) deaf ears. Disney can certainly afford to absorb the cost of the difference between the navigators verandah and the unobstructed verandah. I do hope that you consider showing Disney your resolve by crusing another line next time.

Good luck, and thanks again!

Erin
:D

[Mickey4Me]

I am so curious about the view from that cabin that on my next DCL cruise, I'm going to ask the people in that stateroom if they'd mind if I come shoot a straight-on, wide-angle photo of that verandah Better yet, why don't you request cabin #6634 as your assigned stateroom? :teeth:

[keenercam]

Erin--
you are very welcome. I hope you and your family have a wonderful time!!

RuthAnn-- I love the way you think. ;)

Cam

[shmoogrrrl]

Cam,

You asked us to think about our reaction if we were in your position and I have. While I might not be completely satisfied with the response that I got from Disney, I would be happy that they so obviously acknowledged my problem and attempted to make things better.

It is my opinion that Disney has gone out of their way to apoligize for what happened. I've followed the saga and I wouldn't expect Disney to do more than they have. Yes, we all expect a high level of service from Disney, but we also must remember that Disney IS a business. They exist to make money and they are not likely to just start handing out refunds. If they gave a refund for this, they would be overflowing with requests for refunds because of any little thing.

What I have to judge your situation is what I've read and seen in this thread, and it is my opinion that Disney did all that they could be expected to do to make things better. To expect them to immediately reclassify the room based on your complaint is to expect a bit too much. They said they would look into it. That doesn't mean they won', reclassify it, but it tells you that they are taking your suggestion/complaint under advisement. That is both professional and responsible on their part.

I'm sorry, I know you all probably are only interested in supportive posts that agree with your position, but you DID ask us to consider it, and I have. It is my opinion that Disney probably wouldn't make you happy no matter what they had done to handle the situation. If this issue is all that is riding on your decision to sail again next year, I agree with the person who said you'd be better off sailing on another cruiseline.

Kathy

[keenercam]

we do sincerely appreciate hearing everyone's opinions, not just those in support of our position. Having all these opinions fleshed out here will help future cruisers weigh the pros and cons of that type of verandah.

Wishing everyone a Disney day!
Cam

[Renee']

Better yet, why don't you request cabin #6634 as your assigned stateroom I would, in a heartbeat. The fact that you're secluded and only have one neighboring verandah is enough incentive for us. That stateroom/verandah wouldn't bother us in the least.

Reneé

[taswira]

Originally posted by Mickey4Me
Better yet, why don't you request cabin #6634 as your assigned stateroom? :teeth:
You don't have to be sarcastic. My post was not meant to be. I <I>am</I> curious and I <I>would</I> like to photograph it. I have had a totally unobstructed Cat 5 mid-ship stateroom, as well as Cat. 7. I actually prefer the Navigator Verandah for reasons I previously stated. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[KeenHo]

Renee -

To get the full appreciation of the obstructed view verandah, you'll need to first save up for it and then pay for it. Then I would suggest comparing the view from the verandah with the view from all of the other verandahs in the same category (at the same rate you paid) that are not obstructed.

We were not given the information that this "was a secluded" verandah, we were told it was the last unobstructed verandah on deck 6.

If anyone does stop by stateroom #6634 on a future cruise to check out the room, please ask the cruisers if they like the view, if they would rather have a full view verandah (that they paid for). Ask them if they were told that it was obstructed when they booked their cruise. Then ask if you can sit in the right hand deck chair on the verandah. Enjoy the view.

Howard

[paulmc80]

I think its a great idea to take pics of the room's view It could be very helpful to future cruisers, and if DCL did reclass the room it would be even more useful. I for one am writing to DCL and asking them to reclass the room. I think its important that people know up front what they are getting.

I run a small business and if I misinform a customer I bend over backwards literally to make up for it. I do this because I feel it is the right thing to do and whether or not I make a profit from that customer is not material to me at that point. Correcting the error I made and keeping my self respect in knowing I did the right thing is much more important.

In this case, I imagine the CM's are used to regular disappointment by guests assigned to that room. Truth be known, I am willing to bet that the CM's have suggested many times that this room be reclassified. From my persepective management doesn't have much of a motivation to change things. Afterall, they are not having to deal with these guests face to face on a daily basis. So, guess I'll have to write and let them know to put one more tick mark in their spreadsheet column.

Darn! I feel so serious now. LOL
:)

[keenercam]

Paul--I like the way you do business. I truly believe that whatever good we do returns to us ten-fold. I wish you every success.
Cam

[Renee']

To get the full appreciation of the obstructed view verandah, you'll need to first save up for it and then pay for it. Then I would suggest comparing the view from the verandah with the view from all of the other verandahs in the same category (at the same rate you paid) that are not obstructed. I can only speak from experience as we've only ever stayed in verandah staterooms. I made my statement with true sincerity. The room really wouldn't have bothered us. We would enjoy the extra privacy with only having one neighboring verandah.

While sitting in either of the chairs you truly cannot see much except the railing. (Unless of course you have a long torso and can see over it). While sitting you cannot see much of the ocean either as the plexiglass is usually spotted with salt water. The only view that you may miss is a small portion of the sky. So weighing those facts, versus having a more secluded verandah, we truly wouldn't mind that stateroom in the least.

Reneé

[lpursell]

I wouldn't like it if I had been told it was an un-obstructed view and it was. I appreciate the warning from Cam & Howard.

[allshookup]

I also have been following this thread for a while, just waiting to hear what Disney was going to do to rectify the situation. I am truly stunned by the response and this is why..... (I will try to keep this brief). DH and I decided to (for us a splurge) stay at the CR (Garden Wing) in 2000. We checked in and found dirty towels left in a pile in the room. Called front desk and informed them, they apologized and had them removed immediately. We went to MK and returned about 11:30pm w/ exausted DS-3 and DD-6. Key wouldn't work in door. Called front desk...told us we had wrong room. Nope we don't. Sent up mngr. and security. They broke main key in door and now the lock would have to be drilled, but not until morning or other guests will be disturbed. I am at this point furious and I tell mnger. that I am so far not having a magical time at the CR! He says "I am soooooo sorry I am going to try and get you a room in the tower, what else can I do? Do you want T-shirts to sleep in?" I said yes and tooth brushes. My DD is hysterical because her glow worm is locked in so the mngr. bends down and asks if she would like something else to sleep with? She asks for Nala. We go to second to top floor of tower, end room w/ view of MK....breath-taking. Brings DD Nala and DS Tigger. DS throws Tigger and says "I hate him". I am now embarrassed, but Mngr. says "no prob. who do you like"? DS says Donald Duck....he gets Donald Duck. We also had one night deducted from bill and all belongings sent up to tower next day w/ free upgrade for rest of trip. My point? I was beaming by the end of that day. I again felt the magic and I have nothing but good things to say about Disney, because the Mnger. at CR made damn sure I was happy. I know not the same as an obstructed view, but helllloooooo this is the same company here. Disney can absolutely "afford" to compensate unhappy guests and in fact does so on a regular basis. IMHO Disney can't afford NOT to make guests happy! Just as the CR Mngr asked me, "what can I do to make you happy" so should've Howard and Cam been asked the same thing. Sorry I tried to be brief.

[taswira]

allshookup - I am glad they were able to please you by more than remedying the situation. The key to it becoming a "magical" experience was that they were able to go above and beyond for you then and there. But what would they have done if every room had been occupied (like a full ship)? I guess they could have moved you to another resort area . . .

[el_tigre]

Originally posted by taswira
allshookup - I am glad they were able to please you by more than remedying the situation. The key to it becoming a "magical" experience was that they were able to go above and beyond for you then and there. But what would they have done if every room had been occupied (like a full ship)? I guess they could have moved you to another resort area . . .

I think comparing a full resort to a full ship can be like comparing apples to oranges. allshookup was simply trying to illustrate the lengths Disney has gone in the past to make its customers happy and that she's surprised they didn't do anything here. But even if there wasn't another stateroom to move them on the ship, the cost incurred by the CR to give allshookup a free night and then upgrade them to a tower room for their entire stay would probably be about the same cost (if not more) than giving Cam and Howard a credit for the difference in a catagory 6 and 7.

[Hygiene99]

Seems to me that this was an easy fix, a couple of post above this explains it all these people have 2 other cruise Booked with DCL.. and was not there first ...
and are DISNEY people ... a simple shipboard credit on a future cruise would have solved the whole thing IMO .......

And the MAGIC and Faith and trust would have been restored
and life would be good... this could of all Been taken care of on the ship and we would not be having this conversation....
... I mean really I have gotten a Shipboard credit for no reason at all... It just showed up on the bill .... and it was $100.00 as a matter of fact... and also depending on who u get for CM at the rebooking desk have had other credits and price reductions taken care of ....
I think a post of how the room has a bad view but not all this
they did home work as most people on this board do....
IN one post disney is finding Room for a 3 yr. old
and in another they dropped the ball IMO

[Dave_from_Marietta]

As I write this, it’s been just over 24 hours since Howard posted the response he received from Disney Cruise Lines. It’s been interesting to read everyone else’s responses. Someone asked if I had an opinion to offer… I have been mulling it over. Yes, DCL did assure Howard that they’d look into correcting their processes so that they give more accurate information. This is good. Score one for DCL. They also assured Howard that they were considering his and other correspondents’ comments about these rooms and were considering reclassifying them. Again, this is good. Some may call it lip service, but I agree with other posters that this was an adequate and appropriate response by DCL on the first two points.

But is this enough? I was almost willing to say “yes”, <i><b>but</b></i>…

Today was my son’s first day of kindergarten… a significant milestone in any child’s life and also in their parents’ lives. To celebrate, we went out for dinner this evening. We chose <a href="http://www.williamsonbros.com/"><font color=blue>Williamson Brothers Bar-B-Q</font></a>, a local favorite here in Marietta, Georgia and one of the best barbeque restaurants in the greater Atlanta area. Their ribs are (usually) to <I><b>die</b></I> for. The meat falls off the bone… it’s drenched in their great, peppery sauce… absolutely fantastic ribs. But not tonight. By some unusual fluke in their quality control, the ribs were fatty and the meat was tough. If this were the first time I’d ever been to Williamson Brothers, it would also have been my last. I would have wondered what all the hype was about. Oh, and my Texas toast was stale.

I decided not to complain. After all, if nothing else, I could take the ribs home and trim the meat off for my dog to eat. And the Texas toast was just a piece of bread. My wife suggested that I should tell them that they weren’t producing a consistent product… that they wouldn’t know how to improve if they didn’t know they hadn’t satisfied every customer.

When our waiter asked if we were ready for take-home boxes I said, “No, these ribs were rather disappointing. I won’t be taking them home.” Without delay he summoned a manager to our table. She inquired about our disappointment. She offered to either bring me another slab of ribs or to take the ribs off my check. I chose the latter option. I’d sampled three or four of the ribs hoping that the problem was just with the first one I tried. Between those few ribs and the side orders I'd eaten, I was no longer hungry; I didn't <b><i>need</i></b> another slab of ribs. Cheerfully offering to take the rib platter off the check was the right thing to do.

She also assured me that she would check on procedures in the kitchen so that they would not serve stale bread again.

Now let me tell you what she did <I><b>not</b></I> do… she didn’t send over a bowl of Brunswick stew. They have good Brunswick stew at Williamson Brothers, but I came there for their ribs. She didn’t send me a slice of banana cream pie. Their banana cream pies are almost as famous as their ribs, but we were planning on going out for ice cream afterwards. And had she not offered the refund but I had requested one, I doubt she would have said… “No, sorry. You ate your side items including half of your Texas toast. You ate some of the ribs. And we gave you Brunswick stew and banana cream pie, which is valued at $4.98. We can’t offer you any additional compensation.” If this had been you and this had been their response, would you have been happy with the situation? I doubt it.

No, the manager at Williamson Brothers immediately offered an acceptable remediation <b><I>of my choosing</I></b> and did so cheerfully. She didn’t tell me she had to check with the restaurant’s general manager or with the Williamson brothers themselves. She was empowered to correct the situation immediately, and as a result, I am so pleased with their service recovery, there’s no doubt that I will be patronizing this restaurant again.

Do you think I’m pushing this parable too far? I’m not so sure. Howard and Cam’s requests were not outrageous. They were asking for the difference in price between the category paid for and the category that, effectively, they got. They weren’t asking for a full refund. Williamson Brothers offered me a <b><i>full</i></b> refund... without my even having to ask for it... and they let me choose which remedy would make me happy.

Howard and Cam were also asking for DCL to take steps so that future guests would be spared this disappointment. Nobody asked for or even suggested that anybody should be fired… simply that they take this as an opportunity to improve their level of service as a benefit to their future cruisers. I certainly didn’t want the kitchen employee who served me stale toast to be fired… I was more than satisfied when the restaurant’s manager assured me that corrective action would be taken.

To those who think that Howard and Cam are grumpy old curmudgeons who would have been unhappy with whatever response DCL made, I disagree. They specified what it would take to make them happy. Despite the problem with my ribs, and because the manager did the right thing, I was very happy with my visit to Williamson Brothers. Howard and Cam's requests were not unreasonable. DCL's decision to respond by paying lip service to two of their requests and denying their third request (based on the absurd idea that the unsolicited gifts were, in any way, comparable to what Howard and Cam were asking for) is… to use a word used by <I><b>several</b></I> of the previous posters… <I><b>disappointing</b></I>. Howard and Cam enjoyed their cruise, and if DCL had responded appropriately to this service situation, they would have been completely satisfied with DCL.

Several posters have noted that DCL is a business… they can’t just go throwing around refunds. Yes, it is. And I agree with you to a point, <i><b>but</b></i>...

First point… Howard and Cam weren’t requesting a full refund… just a small token of category difference.

Second point… DCL has (by now) spent far more in labor than the monetary amount requested in considering this case both onboard and back at their ivory tower in Celebration (an inside joke to anybody who’s ever seen Celebration). The monetary amount requested was not significant. But it’s a <I><b>tangible</b></I> token of DCL’s professed regret.

Third point… it is a generally accepted rule in business that it costs <I><b>ten times</b></I> more to acquire a customer than it does to keep an existing customer happy. <I><b>Ten times!!!</b></I> DCL has a huge marketing budget… we’ve all seen and snickered at the ad where the little girl tells everybody in the elevator about her little brother who’s known as a “little souvenir” of their cruise. DCL spent a lot of money leading you to believe that everybody’s going to have warm, fuzzy memories that last more than a year afterwards. Again, I submit that the monetary amount requested by Howard and Cam was, by comparison, chump change.

Fourth point… (related to the third point) as paulmc80 stated in his excellent post… if you make a mistake and give your customer bad information… you do whatever it takes to make it right with the customer. Paul said he’s willing to forgo making a profit from that customer’s transaction if it means that he’s going to keep that customer. Paul… you’re the kind of small businessman I like to do business with. I’m not only going to give you my repeat business, but I’m going to refer other business to you. I’ll tell folks that it’s worth the drive to go past the big-box retailers to do business with you… that it will be worth their while because they’re doing business with an honest, respectable, hard-working businessman who respects his customers. Sure, the profit margins in the cruise industry are thin. Maybe, just maybe, despite the thousands of dollars that Howard and Cam spent on their cruise, if DCL had awarded them the small monetary amount they’d requested, they wouldn’t have made a profit on Howard and Cam’s passage. But that would have been a small investment to make to ensure that Howard and Cam continued to be happy customers and would continue to refer their friends to Disney because of Disney’s superior level of service.

Fifth point… somebody suggested that if DCL caved into Howard and Cam’s demands, they’d be flooded with other people demanding refunds for petty grievances. Sorry, but I disagree. There’s another thread on this board that has also gotten a lot of attention and many, many posts. DCL responded to a special situation and offered a complimentary category upgrade and other amenities. Everybody was very happy. I am, personally, delighted. I, like everybody else, love a happy ending and am delighted that DCL stepped up to the plate here. I hope that family has a truly Magical time. And everybody else, I'm sure, hopes so too. But because DCL was able to offer these things to this family, do you think now there’ll be a rush of indignant passengers calling DCL and demanding that they also receive complimentary upgrades? I doubt it.

Sixth point… Disney is not just any old company. They have been setting the standards in customer service. allshookup gave a wonderful account of how Disney should properly respond in a service recovery situation. Yes, it cost them money… the cost to Disney in that situation undoubtedly wiped out any chance of a profit on allshookup’s business for that visit, but you can bet that allshookup came away with a positive impression about the Magic in Disney’s name. And you can bet that she's excited about planning future trips to WDW because she know she'll get no less than what she paid for. And, by the way, the cost to Disney was <i><b>far</b></i> greater in allshookup's case than what Howard and Cam were asking for. As Ginny had noted, Disney literally wrote the book about good customer service. They have been a model of fine guest service for many industries.

They definitely dropped the ball here. Again, to quote Ginny, “whomever wrote that letter (and allowed it to be mailed) just ‘doesn’t get it.’” Perhaps DCL should send their managers to take customer service training from Williamson Brothers.

[paulmc80]

Oh shoots! Now I'm hungry for some ribs! lol

Next time I"m up there around Atlanta, which should be the end of this year, I gotta go look that place up! Sounds like quite decent folks to me.

Very interesting perspective on this topic Dave. I think you hit the nail right on the head and pointed out what I was missing on this whole thing.

[peagreenid]

I've been reading this post with a lot of interest.... Curious about everyone else's opinions on this subject and not sure how I would feel.
1st- I would like to point out that Disney has been Sailing the Magic for 4 years now. And well this board has been around for just about as long. I find it interesting, that this stateroom and this topic of discussion has JUST NOW reared it's ugly head. WHY? I'm curious. I can't believe that there have NOT been any Dis'ers that have sailed on the Magic or the Wonder that have not ended up in this stateroom. Come on now, we've all heard about the metal Verandah's, and yet this has alluded us for this long. Maybe it is because this affected these people in an entirely different way.
2nd- I too think that fixing this publicly on a bulletin board isn't the way to go. Dave believes that if one person got this corrected and had the results posted here, it wouldn't affect others, I would have to disagree. How many people are disappointed because they read that others got towel animals only to find their hostess didn't leave any, or that the Beer MUGS used to be filled with Mixed drinks at the same cost as Beer Refills until they were inundated with folks that wanted the same thing.
3rd- Since we got a 1/2 view verandah, I'd like to receive 1/2 credit for the difference we paid for the stateroom with the verandah. I don't think this is asking too much. I would take it as a credit towards our next cruise. I would also like the rooms to be reclassified for future cruisers.
This is not the same Dave as- They were asking for the difference in price between the category paid for and the category that, effectively, they got. That is certainly several hundred dollars. There isn't much difference in price between a Navigators verandah and a verandah, but a lot between NO verandah and a Verandah.
4th- This is a very touchy situation. Obviously there weren't any other staterooms available to switch them to. I'm sure if there had been, DCL would have remedied that. It appears to me that in situations like this, the only thing that can be offered in amends on this ship are I guess the stupid things that are not wanted-like cheese trays and snorkeling equipment. I see that as DCL trying to make things better because their hands are tied. And any other remedies will come at a later time. I honestly don't believe that they would have refunded their money on the ship like they would or could in a restaurant. So now, what would have happened had DCL not done anything AT ALL on the cruise. I think I would be really P.O.'d.
5th- When I booked our first cruise I was upset because at 6 months out, everything left was in a guarantee status. I was worried that we would get a metal verandah. That isn't what I wanted, but, if I had gotten one what were my options. Should the metal verandahs be priced lower than the plexiglass verandah's? Afterall you have essentially lost 1/2 of your view out of the verandah, and can't see anything at all while seated.
6th- A verandah is a verandah. It isn't like the Secret Porthole rooms with the obstructed views. From the picture I saw it appeared more like the verandah was "SHIELDED". Other cruiselines offer partially obstructed and obstructed views. But, generally LIKE DCL they are obstructed by Life boats and equipment. This didn't appear the same to me.

well enough of my .02 cents worth.... i'm starting to ramble.
smiles Patty

[SlyHubby]

Originally posted by peagreenid
6th- A verandah is a verandah. It isn't like the Secret Porthole rooms with the obstructed views. From the picture I saw it appeared more like the verandah was "SHIELDED". Other cruiselines offer partially obstructed and obstructed views. But, generally LIKE DCL they are obstructed by Life boats and equipment. This didn't appear the same to me.

Now we're getting down to definitions of what "obstructed" vs. "shielded" means? Let's forget the semantics - we all know what a verandah is. If you all have to squeeze over to one side to see out because there is SOMETHING BLOCKING YOUR VIEW on half the verandah - well, the view is OBSTRUCTED.

You want to look at definitions of words, fine.

http://www.websters.com/search?q=obstructed

"3. To get in the way of so as to hide from sight."

Would you like to discuss the matter with Mr. Webster? The view was obstructed. They were guaranteed the view was not obstructed. They were given incorrect information and sold a product based on that misinformation.

No, it's not the same as in your example. In one case (the secret porthole) you are getting more than what you paid for. In this case, the folks were specifically told THERE IS NO OBSTRUCTION. They asked, they were told - they were assured of it. They paid full price for an UNOBSTRUCTED VIEW and that is what they expected.

A verandah is not a verandah - these folks knew it, the DCL representative they spoke with knew exactly what they were asking. Maybe the representative didn't have the correct information available - that is still not the customer's problem and they should not have suffered as a result.

[peagreenid]

Sorry if you don't agree with my thoughts. :)
That's what I love about america, we are all entitled to our own opinions. If everyone felt the same way as these folks, I guarantee we would have heard of this before. I did a search of this stateroom on Cruisecritic also. I didn't come up with anything there either.
So SlyHubby are you saying that the people with the Metal verandah's should be paying for a navigators verandah also? Should the Handicapped people pay more because their verandah's are larger?
Now we're getting down to definitions of what "obstructed" vs. "shielded" means? Let's forget the semantics - we all know what a verandah is. If you all have to squeeze over to one side to see out because there is SOMETHING BLOCKING YOUR VIEW on half the verandah - well, the view is OBSTRUCTED. Everyone keeps saying HALF on this thing. No matter which picture I look at, the picture from the inside or the picture from the outside it doesn't even look close to half. It appears to me that the upper right corner is "SHIELDED". the entire bottom is open and the verandah is of the normal size.
I guess until we all see it personally we will never know.

smiles
Patty

[paulmc80]

I don't know ... but to me it does not seem important to what extent the verandah is obstructed. It is obstructed. They specifically asked and were told it was not obstructed. That was incorrect information.

When a customer makes a financial decision based on erroneous information I provided, that customer rightfully expects me to rectify the situation accordingly. And I will mostly definitely do so.

Also, I certainly do not mind that a customer passes on to others the fact that I will do what it takes to make them happy. In fact I encourage that.

[paulmc80]

Oh yeah!

I wonder how many people on this board could say that they have stayed in this stateroom before, stateroom #6634 I believe?

Now that would be interesting!

[my3kids]

I think maybe Dave missed my point on DCL not offering compensation because of the publicity and opening themselves to others with complaints.....

I've followed the other thread also about the family who needed a space for an ill child on a full ship...they found a handicapped accessible room in a higher category.....Now how can you compare the good will of DCL doing this for a sick child to an adult couple who were not happy with the verandah view? Two totally different things.

If they gave a partial refund because of the view of the room, in such a public forum, what's to stop everyone who ever had that room from asking for the same well publicized perk? The Magic has been sailing 1 or 2 times a week since what, 1998? The Wonder twice a week since 1999? That is a lot of people who suddenly would, by all accounts, be entitled to a refund. Not among people here, but I think there are a lot of people who just want to get a free ride. I DO NOT think that was the case AT ALL with this couple, but I think once the discussion was sent into an open forum, DCL could have been flooded with people seeking compensation for some part of the trip which wasn't up to their liking.

Anyway, just wanted to express that I think this is a TOTALLY different situation than the family who received an upgrade at no cost to take their sick child along. No comparison.

[Doctor P]

One question that has not been addressed, however, is whether someone who wanted a Navigator's Verandah (a Category 7) stateroom would be disappointed with this stateroom. I would hazard to guess that many would be, since many families want the increased safety of the enclosed verandah. This just opens a whole additional Pandora's Box with this issue. From what I know and can see, they clearly got a Category 6 stateroom. It had an open verandah. Was it as good a verandah as some other Category 6's? Apparently not. Did it have an obstructed view? That is clearly open to interpretation as one can see from the responses to this thread. Were they given misinformation? Clearly, that is also open to interpretation. Did they expect something different? Clearly, they did. Are they entitled to a stateroom credit or some other kind of credit for the difference or a portion of the difference between Category 6 and Category 7? I don't think so. Would it have been good customer relations to give such a credit? Probably.

[Carol RN]

__________________________________________________
my3kids writes:

If they gave a partial refund because of the view of the room, in such a public forum, what's to stop everyone who ever had that room from asking for the same well publicized perk? The Magic has been sailing 1 or 2 times a week since what, 1998? The Wonder twice a week since 1999? That is a lot of people who
suddenly would, by all accounts, be entitled to a refund.
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I agree with this 100%. If DCL refunded the "Cam" family the price difference between categories, they would be setting a potentially harmful precedent. This would open up DCL to all the past cruisers who have had this verandah stateroom, and the other verandah staterooms which have partially obstructed views, to demand refunds also.

[KeenHo]

Quote from Carol RN:
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"I agree with this 100%. If DCL refunded the "Cam" family the price
difference between categories, they would be setting a potentially
harmful precedent. This would open up DCL to all the past cruisers who
have had this verandah stateroom, and the other verandah staterooms
which have partially obstructed views, to demand refunds also."
__________________________________________________ ___

I respectfully disagree... All past cruisers who have had this stateroom (or others like it) may not have been specifically told by a CM that it was a UNOBSTRUCTED view verandah. If they were told this and it wasn't true, then they would have cause for complaint. If that was the case, they should have immediately stated their concerns to Guest Services while onboard (which we did) and sought out a remedy at that time.... not wait until well after their cruise and then come forward to complain and ask for some kind of refund consideration. To think Disney would honor such requests is simply funny.

Thank you.

Howard

[Carol RN]

Howard,

I wasn't trying to be "funny" as you seem to think.

I am simply stating a fact, and that is if DCL refunded the price difference between categories to you, they would be setting a precedent where if people who have sailed in that stateroom before request a refund they would be entitled to receive it. The bottom line is their view was just as obstructed as yours was, whether or not they complained about it!

As for the DCL rep giving you misinformation, that was unfortunate, but I believe DCL responded to your concerns appropriately.

[Lisa F]

Although the photo that Dave posted was a good one, it was still a little hard to tell what the verandahs in question might look like. I was flipping through my AAA DCL book and they had a great closeup shot of the back of the boat so I figured I'd scan it and post it, just as an FYI.

Here's another shot, on which I've superimposed three boxes. The red box shows the size of an unobstructed verandah. The blue boxes are exactly the same size as the red one, and shows how much of each verandah is being obstructed. Hopefully that will help others in the future.

Lisa

http://www.addventure.com/users/lisa/disneymagicback.jpg

[KeenHo]

We value every one's opinion and the objectivity you have all brought to this issue. We appreciate the candor and thoughtfulness of all of these posts. For those who have learned something from our experience, we are glad for you. We have decided to take all of the advice we have received to heart (that received here as well as
in PMs and e-mails) and will decide privately how to proceed, if at all . We believe these forums serve as exactly that-- a forum for the discussion of viewpoints-- and we appreciate the opportunity to have done so. Wishing you all a Disney day and more importantly, a wonderful Disney cruise.

Howard & Cam

[Michelle]

And on that note, we will end this thread. :)

Thanks for sharing your information, Howard and Cam! :)

[taswira]

I have to stick with my unpopular opinion and agree with peagreenid (excellent points!) and my3kids. Being someone who has cruised DCL with a totally unobstructed Cat 5 verandah and a Nav. Verandah and actually <I>preferring</I> the latter, I <I>would</I> be disappointed with #6634 - <I>not</I> because it is partially shielded, but because it does not have the cushioned bench and chair, larger table, etc. of the Cat. 7. So if they reclassified that stateroom as a Cat. 7, <B>I would complain</B>. However, if DCL sees fit to reclassify it as something like "6s" for "6 shielded" and knock a little off the price, that might be appropriate and would make people ending up with that cabin aware of what they're getting.

It was only after seeing the posted photo of part of the verandah that my opinion changed from support for more compensation (I was thinking onboard credit for the next cruise), to supporting DCL's view on the matter. The fact that "unwanted" items were accepted (even if not used) did not help.

Nearly everyone on this thread has vaild points, both pro and con, and we ARE all entitled to our own opinion and shouldn't be ridiculed for it. But surely <I>someone</I> else on the DIS has stayed in #6634. Why has it taken 4 years for this issue to be made known?