OT - Anyone else worried about new nanny laws?

[alamode]

I just got off the phone with the agency that I got our first nanny with a couple years ago to see how the new "nanny laws" will affect us getting our next nanny for the fall of 2010, and her response was far worse than expected.

According to her, Canadian agencies can no longer charge a perspective nanny to find her employment in Canada. Sounds good on the surface, right? Problem is, these laws don't apply in the countries they are coming from, so the agencies in Hong Kong, Phillipines etc will still charge the same price to the nannies, they will just keep all the money for themselves, leaving the Canadian parents to pay the Canadian agency.

Also, the Canadian family is responsible for paying the nanny's flight ahead of time, with no way of suing for reimbursement if the nanny skips out on the family that has paid for both the the Canadian agency and the flight.

In the end, what used to cost people like me, a widowed dad of three kids, nothing will now cost at minimum $3,000 up front, with no guarantee that the person will even show up.

Also, nanny poaching will be happening big time. That being, if you have a good nanny, someone else may come along and offer more $$ to them, because that family wants to save on the agency and airline fees. Deals can be set up beforehand like "I'll come work for you, but I'll get the fees and airlines paid by these other suckers".

Anyone else concerned?

[CdnCarrie]

Why not hire a babysitter locally instead? :confused3


Or use daycare? I know lots of single parents who use daycare.

I personally wouldn't want a stranger who didn't speak English well or who knew my city well to come into my home at all.

[tone.def]

Why not hire a babysitter locally instead? :confused3


Or use daycare? I know lots of single parents who use daycare.

I personally wouldn't want a stranger who didn't speak English well or who knew my city well to come into my home at all.

Hi,

You do what works for your family CdnCarrie.

We have just gone through the process of hiring a nanny, but part time so we didn't have to sponsor her over here and she doesn't live with us. We hired a woman who had been a full time nanny for 6 years and was sponsored here by a previous family. Now she is a nursing student. Let me address some of your questions:

Daycare - one employee for 7 or 8 children aged 1-2? NO THANK YOU!!! The one on one attention our baby is getting is invaluable.

Local babysitter - in the city of Toronto, that's not so much an option. There isn't a woman down the street with 3 kids who takes in another one or 2 for the day, I got a condo full of yuppies to the left and party people to the right and no, we're not moving to the 'burbs.

We had a lot of students who responded to our ad, but they didn't have experience with babies, so I would not hire them.

English? Sure, our Phillipino nanny's English is not the greatest. But neither are my in-law's with their Urdu accent.

alamode - I'm sorry you have to go through that now. Is hiring a nanny here and not bringing them over an option?

[alamode]

A live-in nanny suits my needs perfectly. We are totally happy with the person we have now, but unfortunately she is moving on to other ventures as of next August.

A baby sitter and/or daycare would be a lot more work, and probably more money for less service. The waiting lines for before and after school care in toronto are literally years long.

If one of my kids are sick, I would have to stay home with them. I would also have to take them and pick them up at specific times. With a live in nanny, I just leave in the morning with my kids getting ready for school. Our nanny walks them to school and picks them up afterwards. During the day she cleans, does laundry etc., helps the kids with their homework and makes dinner. When i get home from work, homework is done, dinner is ready and the condo is clean.

I'm all for protecting foreign workers, but this seems to punish the law abiding families like myself. The exploiters will just find ways around the laws.

[irisesareblue]

Alamode I agree with you....it seems that the lawmakers are being shortsighted on this! My daughter came back from an au-pair job in Germany last year where she acted as a live-in nanny - it worked fine for her and the family, although the contract is different, would this be an option for you? I'm not sure if the new nanny laws would be relevant in that situation as well.:confused3

[alamode]

From what the agency told me, this applies to any caregiving job, be it nanny, au pair, or those taking care of the elderly and/or special needs individuals.

It's very easy for people who have not looked into this issue to simply say "Hire Canadian". I've even had people tell me I'm a lazy parent for having a nanny. Try being a widowed dad with a 9 year old son and twin 6 year old girls.

I believe it's well worth the costs of the nanny, plus she is a well needed female figure for my girls. Plus Canadians simply do not want these types of jobs. I might look into nannys that are already here, but hopfully things will get straightened out with these laws by fall.

[irisesareblue]

I certainly wish you the best in this! I'm sure it's a difficult situation and hopefully you'll be able to find someone reliable and kind to look after the children when you're not able to be there.

[alamode]

Thanks. We were so lucky with our first nanny, I'm hoping we don't pay for ou good fortunes with the second one.

[casper_jj11]

Plus Canadians simply do not want these types of jobs. I might look into nannys that are already here, but hopfully things will get straightened out with these laws by fall.

We have three kiddos ages 2, 3 and 7. We have a live out nanny and she's just wonderful. We hired her when I returned to work when my oldest was 1 year old. She's been with us 6 years now. She's young (just turned 30), she's bilingual (french/english) and she loves the kids dearly. She arrives at 8am and leaves at 530. She is also trained in piano so she does DS7's piano with him which leaves more time in the evenings for me to help him with his homework. She doesn't live with us but she's part of our family. I found her by placing an ad in the Ottawa Citizen. I screened 100 plus people by phone over 4 days. I got resumes from about 20 and asked 4 to meet with DH and I. We then chose 2 to meet my son and have a paid afternoon of babysitting with us in the house. We chose the one that we thought was best for him. She doesn't do housework but she does wash the kids clothing and she makes our family dinner every night. She also drives and takes my younger children to their gymnastics class.

I know we're incredibly lucky but there are wonderful nannies out there without going thru an agency. Many families I know here have used agencies and their nannies have left within months. This isnt to say there's a problem with using an agency but I feel better having chosen the best person I could find to care for my children and the best person isn't necessarily the person who looks best on paper.

[alamode]

Thanks for the valuable information. It's definately an option.

[cabmom]

My Nanny just arrived from Saudia Arabia in November. She is a nurse and has been for 17 yrs.
She has a sister in the UK, that wants to come to Canada as a Nanny or Eldercare.
IM me if you are interested in getting her info. She is also a nurse.
Marilynn

Also wanted to add, no fees paid by either party. Nanny paid her own flight.

[alamode]

Also wanted to add, no fees paid by either party. Nanny paid her own flight.

This law goes into effect in January. This is the Ontario law, there is another federalone coming.

[Sue M]

My girlfriends daughter just returned from Australia, was a nanny for a family for 6 mos. That was the amount of time they wanted, I think they are now on summer break? And traveling. Anyway, she found the job on line. She and the family had several interviews on Skype with the family before she left for Australia. She took Early childhood Ed here, and worked in a day care. She paid her own fare, as there was no agency involved, and the arrangements worked out well for everyone.
Good luck with your search.

[mom2faith]

Hi,


Daycare - one employee for 7 or 8 children aged 1-2? NO THANK YOU!!! The one on one attention our baby is getting is invaluable.
Phillipino nanny's English is not the greatest. But neither are my in-law's with their Urdu accent.



Hi there,

I feel your pain, and wish I could afford a nanny, but for 1 child it is not worth it. I have to trust daycare.

FWIW I feel the need to comment on this statement. Please check the laws in your area, but here in home daycare providers are allowed 2 "babies" (Children under 2) and 2 or 3 "Toddlers" (Children 2 to school aged). That is all they are allowed to have, so 7 to 8 kids under 2 would never happen.

It is so hard though!! DD has been with the same lady since she was 10 months old and I really like her, but there are problems that is for sure. Somethings my daughter is "taught" I would not have taught her. But, then again some things she has learned are invaluable. (All "bad" areas have been addressed, but it does not make it any easier, that is for sure!!).

Now that DD is going into grade 1 full time (starting in fall) we are considering a student for before and after school. But, I worry about the reliablilty. And, what about all those "no school" days?!?!

I wish we could all just stay home with our kids full time, but sadly that is not for us :(

[BitsnBearsMom]

Hi there,

FWIW I feel the need to comment on this statement. Please check the laws in your area, but here in home daycare providers are allowed 2 "babies" (Children under 2) and 2 or 3 "Toddlers" (Children 2 to school aged). That is all they are allowed to have, so 7 to 8 kids under 2 would never happen.


Actually I do home daycare and if you aren't licensed there are no 'rules' as to ages of kids. The only rule for Ontario is that you can only have 5 children not including your own. Licensed home daycare's must stay with the 1 child under 1, 2 under 2, 3 under 3 etc. rules in Ontario.

However if you are in a centre the ratio's are 1 to 8 unless it's the infant room then the ratio's are lower. Having worked in several daycare centre's I personally wouldn't put my children into one - there are good ones out there I'm sure but I just haven't found many in my 25 yrs in the field. If I could have afforded a nanny I might have considered it but home daycare with the right person was my next best choice for my first ds! My 2nd ds' I had enough and quit a great job as a VP of a Montessori school to stay home and open my own home daycare..... 10 yrs in and I'm still enjoying it!!

Good luck on your search - have you thought of contacting local colleges that offer the ECE program to see if there may be any interested applicant's?

[alamode]

Lots of good suggestions here. An added issue, at least for some people, is me being a single (widowed) dad. Our current nanny and I have a great relationship, but I can see why some might find it difficult, at least in theory.

[mom2faith]

Actually I do home daycare and if you aren't licensed there are no 'rules' as to ages of kids. The only rule for Ontario is that you can only have 5 children not including your own. Licensed home daycare's must stay with the 1 child under 1, 2 under 2, 3 under 3 etc. rules in Ontario.

However if you are in a centre the ratio's are 1 to 8 unless it's the infant room then the ratio's are lower. Having worked in several daycare centre's I personally wouldn't put my children into one - there are good ones out there I'm sure but I just haven't found many in my 25 yrs in the field. If I could have afforded a nanny I might have considered it but home daycare with the right person was my next best choice for my first ds! My 2nd ds' I had enough and quit a great job as a VP of a Montessori school to stay home and open my own home daycare..... 10 yrs in and I'm still enjoying it!!

Good luck on your search - have you thought of contacting local colleges that offer the ECE program to see if there may be any interested applicant's?

As stated, I said check your local laws. For me, here is Saskatchewan and they obviously have different rules. You are only allowed the 2 under 2; 3 aged 2 to 5 and a total of 8 kids under 12 including your own.

[tigercat]

We are in a different situation in that we need an elder care person. We have a great one that we found by word of mouth. She is our 3rd one. The first was great but only needed 6 months to finish her contract and get citizenship. The 2nd one is great but a lot as my df needs 24 hr care so we hired another one for the weekends. She was horrible but we had to keep her until we found another one. We did and she is great as well. We have been very lucky. The only thing is that this week someone called her and offered her at least twice what we are paying her (and we are generous as we don't want her to leave) if she would work for this other person. This other person knows that it is nearing the end of my df's life (he is on pallative care right now) and they were willing to have us left in the lurch. Some people. Thank goodness we have always treated her very well and let her know it. She said no.
tigercat

[Miss LD]

totally get where you are coming from. We also have a live-in nanny. We think the world of her. She's been with us for a year, and we'd have her stay till our kids were adults if she would :)
Having said that, she wants to move on when she is done working with us for 2 years, and we are thinking about what to do next. So the laws will really affect us. Not to mention the agency we used to hire her was HORRIBLE, so we will be looking for a new agency. (I am so grateful our nanny is wonderful because if she wasn't, or alternatively if we were horrible - we would be stuck).

She has suggested her younger sister come, but without an agency's help it's difficult and expensive. So, I don't know what we will do.

I have no solutions. Just saying I hear ya. But, I'm sure it will work out.

Also, we've done all 3 types of daycare - a centre, homecare and a nanny. We chose to have a nanny when I had my second child. There are pros and cons to anything, but the best solution for our family has been having a nanny.

[cabmom]

:confused3I don't understand why people think they have to go thru an agency. I did it myself with someones help who hired a Nanny on their own. I did not pay for her flight to come here either.
She is the best! I asked her if someone offered her more money if she would leave me and she said no. She is a part of our family now.
If I can help anyone please pm me!
Marilynn

[ReesaR]

As the OP mentioned - the laws have very recently changed. As of today April 1, 2010 minimum wage for nannies is $10.25 per hour. That means that you are paying 25 cents more and 50 cents more in the last year.

Recent changes include:
1) Agencies are no longer allowed to charge placement fees of any kind to a nanny (live-in caregiver) this means the placement charges will now fall to the employer and in many cases be completely unaffordable. Also if agencies are caught charging nannies they face fines of up to $50K and 1 year in jail.
2) Employers will now have to pay nannies expenses in terms of travel to Canada this can range from $800-$1400 per flight. the problem with this is that who wants to hire someone site unseen and in the process incur such a great expense.

In my opinion its a lose-lose situation for employers and for the nannies (the ones wanting to take part in the program not the ones who are already here - they hit the jackpot actually) they can pretty much name their price. as for the ones coming here as I mentioned earlier - why take the risk when you can just hire someone that is already here and trained by someone else and just pay a higher fee. It really is quite disgusting what the govt. has done and in the process put out of business legitimate agencies that have helped numerous Canadians. I know that some people exploit nannies but this is really throwing the baby out with the bathwater (no pun intended) I hope constituents call and write to their MP to complain that is the only way this will have a hope in hell of changing. And to those who think that maybe this isn't really so bad I have news for you - we are all pretty much screwed big time!

[DbleTheFun]

I agree this will increase the instances of "nanny poaching"... our Nanny who has been with us almost 2 years gets approached ALL the time when out with the kids... she is incredible, and others notice it. But we treat her well (Not entirely financial, in just being a true part of the family) and she has said many times that others will not lure her away (PHEW)

We were lucky in that we hired here once she was already in Canada... there are a LOT of Nannies that land in Canada with fake employers or worse yet, employers that mistreat them. Ask around, the community is tight, and often these girls know of others that are already in Canada but wanting to change employers (Remember, if here under the live in caregiver program, they can not be unemployed, so many times Nannies will surface if asked, but will not be idly waiting for a new employer publicly.

The rules are in place to protect these girls... I understand that, I just hope it doesnt due the program an injustice!

[Disney Dad Canada]

The rules are in place to protect these girls... I understand that, I just hope it doesnt due the program an injustice!

Unfortunately, this was a knee jerk reaction to a very important issue. According to the nanny agency I got my nanny from, applications for importing a nanny from oversees is down 93%. No one in their right mind would pay for a flight for someone they haven't met, with no guarantee they will ever even meet you at the airport, and no way to sue them for the cost if they do bail on you.

Plus, not allowing the agencies here to charge the nanny doesn't mean the agencies in the country they are in now will charge them any less. It just means that your costs will go up. $2,000 for a nanny agency, plus another $1,500 for an airplane ticket is far too much to pay for most families with small children.