Security Threat?

[disneynutz]

I just have to share a weird experience that we had yesterday at Kidani.

We had just checked out and getting ready to move to BLT. I wanted to get a few photos of the Kidani and Jambo sign, front of building and pool area. I was talking a picture of Jambo with a ME bus out front and I noticed a Disney Security Guard watching me. We then went over to Kidani and I took a picture of the front of the main Kidani building. Next we went to check out the Kidani pool, and I took a few pictures.

A Security Guard comes up to me and asks why am I taking pictures? I didn't know what to say, It's Disney, I always take pictures at Disney. He goes on to tell me that he has been following us and watching me take pictures and we aren't allowed to take pictures of buildings.

The conversation goes on for about 5 minutes and he asks us things like where are you staying, are you a Guest staying at WDW, When did we arrive, when are we leaving. The whole thing was really weird.

I asked him to have his supervisor call me so I could get more information about Disney's picture taking policy. 5 minutes later the Security Manager calls me and wants to know what I want?

I explained the situation to her and and she told me that people don't normally take pictures of the front of the resort and since 911 things have changed. She goes on to tell me that they especially restrict people from taking pictures in back stage areas. I told her that I wasn't back stage, I took a picture of the resort sign and the front of the resorts and that I was talking a picture of the Kidani pool water feature when contacted by her employee. She stated that maybe he isn't clear on Disney's policy and that she would discuss it with him.

Looks like the 911 attack will change our lives for ever. :sad2:

:) Bill

[KYCruiseCrazy]

That is soooooooooooooo sad!!!!!

[dopeygirl76]

I think security may have been heightened because at MK last week some reported having a bomb in their backpack during the security search (we knew nothing and were there during the time frame but it was in the PassPorter's news blurb on their website). I'm sure after an event like that their security increases in certain areas.

[kritter]

I think security may have been heightened because at MK last week some reported having a bomb in their backpack during the security search (we knew nothing and were there during the time frame but it was in the PassPorter's news blurb on their website). I'm sure after an event like that their security increases in certain areas.

OMGOSH, we were there last week too. When was this??!!

[dopeygirl76]

They did not give a date - here is the blurb from the newsletter sent Dec 10, 2009.


German Tourist Arrested for Bomb Threat. Jochen Naumann was arrested last Sunday after telling Magic Kingdom security cast members during the bag check process that he had two bombs in his backpack. The cast members notified a nearby Orange County Sheriff's Deputy and a bomb-sniffing dog was used. No explosive devices were detected. Naumann was charged with making a false report of a bomb. This updates page 300 of PassPorter's guidebook.

[BWV Dreamin]

Disney was one of the areas mentioned as a possible terrorist attack area back in 2001. Since then there continues to be alot of surveillance, especially from the sky. We lived in Annapolis, Maryland during that time and I still remember hearing the fighter jets circling for two hours every night at 2 am! Yes, our lives have been changed forever.

[Chuck S]

From a security standpoint, I can understand it looking odd to be taking photos of resort signage and buildings, especially if there are no people posing in the photos.

I'd be kind of surprised if Homeland Security and Disney (as well as all other tourist destinations) don't have some particular behaviors on a watch list that would garner a closer look. Remember that if you had been up to no good, and something happened, the conversation would be "Why didn't Disney Security do more?"

[vicki_c]

I don't mind them asking why someone is taking photos, but the whole "policy" thing throws me a bit. I take tons of resort photos @ Disney -- no people in them. It's one of "my things"! I hope no one questions me when we visit Kidani for the first time next month.

But I guess it sounds like the final outcome was that maybe the security person was being a bit overzealous?

[Micca]

If pictures taken at WDW are a security threat they have a HUGE problem. Isn't WDW the most photographed place on the planet? :confused3
I agree that CM was an over zealous security guard.

[LindaBabe]

He might have been a newly hired former TSA agent.

[ssawka]

He might have been a newly hired former TSA agent.

You better look for items missing from your bag!! ;)

[cpdwiz]

I think I would rather a somewhat overzealous guard over someone that does nothing. FYI, Disney worked with HS and the FBI after 9/11. They incorporated quite a few new measures, and they work hand in hand.

Maybe the guy was a little overboard, but, thats better than not doing anything....We took tons of pic last May, of the fronts and backs of buildings as well as signs. No problem. We even had a security guy take a photo of the 2 of us in front of things...

At least they are paying attention.

[KAT4DISNEY]

According to the response from the supervisor (once they understood what had happened) it sounds like the guard was a little over zealous and that is all.

And - there wasn't a bomb at MK - it appears that a foreign visitor may have been making a joke and not realizing how seriously the comments would be taken. I know it's run thru my mind when going thru the bag check but I do know better than to say it.

[DVCPAT]

I don't mind them asking why someone is taking photos, but the whole "policy" thing throws me a bit. I take tons of resort photos @ Disney -- no people in them. It's one of "my things"! I hope no one questions me when we visit Kidani for the first time next month.

But I guess it sounds like the final outcome was that maybe the security person was being a bit overzealous?


I have no problem with tight security. In Europe, I’ve had cameras disassembled and was pulled aside in a subway station in Germany for taking pictures. As long as the security personal are respectful, Its fine with me.

[disneynutz]

The 911 security thing has me a bit out of sorts. Seems like the shipping containers and other obvious possible security threats go unchecked, but documented citizens get hassled.

We were on a Disney tour last week, in a group of people chaperoned by Disney employees, and we had to wear special name badges. We entered 3 parks through the backstage area and at 2 of the parks, not 3 we had our bags checked while on the bus by Security.

:) Bill

[DVCPAT]

The 911 security thing has me a bit out of sorts. Seems like the shipping containers and other obvious possible security threats go unchecked, but documented citizens get hassled.

We were on a Disney tour last week, in a group of people chaperoned by Disney employees, and we had to wear special name badges. We entered 3 parks through the backstage area and at 2 of the parks, not 3 we had our bags checked while on the bus by Security.

:) Bill




Disney security is very good. I was in the AKL lobby and watched a bomb sniffing dog check out an unattended package. Security was in and out of the lobby in less than 4 minutes. The package was removed and most of the guests never noticed. Even before you enter Disney property, the highways are lined with radiation sensing devices. Patients undergoing radiation treatment can trigger them…..It’s the world we live in.

[smjj]

well I guess I always violate security. I always take photos of the front of our resort. They have the nice fronts on then with the signs and we add them to our pictures along with all the other hundreds we take. I just don't think a person taking a photo of the front of the resort is a security threat. They go out of there way to make them eye catching and have them displayed in broceures and in their commercials. I would venture a guess that each resort has it front snapped many times each day. There are those that can go overboard and it sounds like this guard was one. I will continue to take these photos and I hope Disney has better educated their security guards...smjj

[Doctor P]

Every once in a while you run into a jerk security guard. It rarely happens, but sometimes it does. I had a guy at the MK giving me an extreme hassle about having a manual tire guage and my car keys in my fanny pack!! And I mean he was nasty--one step from a strip search, LOL, because I carried this stuff in my fanny pack. EGADS.

[Coach81]

Guess I'll be talked to next.. I would not mind.. I'm glad they are trying to keep us safe.

[smjj]

Guess I'll be talked to next.. I would not mind.. I'm glad they are trying to keep us safe.

You see thats their easy out. Act however you want, go overboard all you want, be as over reactive as you want and if anyone says anything, just claim you are doing it for their safety and security. They use it as their "get out of jail card". Who is going to argue with them when they use this excuse...smjj

[Maistre Gracey]

Yup... That's extremely odd. They build incredible resorts for untold millions, then don't want guests to take pictures..??

MG

[Hazzard101]

Disney security has always been polite and helpful whenever I have dealt with them. Being a security officer in the school system, I have training and knowledge that makes me look at things in a different light. I wasn't there so I do not have knowledge of what the officer saw that made him ask questions.

If you are in Washington and are around the White House taking pictures and an officer sees you do something or take pictures of something they will ask you to move on and may even question you. This is the same in any major city.
I would not advise spending a lot of time photographing the empire state building from every angle unless you want to answer questions.

The officer in this case was being cautious and may seem as if he was hassling the visitors but I am glad that he took the time to question the people. They had every right to ask for a supervisor and ask for clarification.

As for another post that says that security uses the "EXCUSE" of the safety of people to justify over reaction. If they don't act on the side of caution, the one person they don't check out could be the one carrying the suitcase with the Bomb in it. Then it will be too late to complain to anybody.

I use a CPAP machine and am searched and the machine is swabbed at every checkpoint in the airport. I am happy to oblige and I also make it easy for them to do their job. We all need to look at these inconveniences as a way to keep us safe. My mom always said if you aren't doing anything wrong then there shouldn't be a problem with answering a few questions.

[smjj]

Yup... That's extremely odd. They build incredible resorts for untold millions, then don't want guests to take pictures..??

MG

That is true, if they do not want pictures taken of their resorts then state that when people checkin. State it on the conformation letter, state it when they book. Have a big sign outfront stating if you take picture of our resort, that we spent millions on to make as nice and pretty as possible, you will be subject to security checks. You can go overboard on anything and sometimes some people do. I feel it is totally unreasonable to not expect guest to want to photograph the resort they are staying in. I have on my many trip and will contine to to so. I know no matter what picture I take from any angle, It has already been taken and posted on the internet by Disney or others dozens if not hundreds of times...smjj

[permavac]

The 911 security thing has me a bit out of sorts. Seems like the shipping containers and other obvious possible security threats go unchecked, but documented citizens get hassled...


I have to agree with this. I am not one to easily give up my personal freedoms. Then again, I do understand that you might be expected to if you are agreeing to abide by the policies of a certain business. In this case though, that guy was hassling you since there is CLEARLY no sign saying that taking pictures is forbidden. How the heck would anyone know NOT to take pictures of resort signs or Disney buildings unless advised of such? :confused3 And, honestly, what's the point of confronting someone taking pictures anyway? Even if you were up to no good, how in the world would he have ascertained that? Would you have 'fessed up "Yeah, I'm doing some reconnaissance on a good place to put a suspicious package" or, if you were really dumb, dropped your camera and run off when confronted screaming, "They caught me!"? That just seems silly to me. Hassling the person taking pictures isn't "keeping us safe". Stopping the guy who drops off the suspicious package or confronting the individual pulling the assault weapon out of their bag. THAT would keep us safe. Just my two cents.

Terri

[Coach81]

I have to agree with this. I am not one to easily give up my personal freedoms. Then again, I do understand that you might be expected to if you are agreeing to abide by the policies of a certain business. In this case though, that guy was hassling you since there is CLEARLY no sign saying that taking pictures is forbidden. How the heck would anyone know NOT to take pictures of resort signs or Disney buildings unless advised of such? :confused3 And, honestly, what's the point of confronting someone taking pictures anyway? Even if you were up to no good, how in the world would he have ascertained that? Would you have 'fessed up "Yeah, I'm doing some reconnaissance on a good place to put a suspicious package" or, if you were really dumb, dropped your camera and run off when confronted screaming, "They caught me!"? That just seems silly to me. Hassling the person taking pictures isn't "keeping us safe". Stopping the guy who drops off the suspicious package or confronting the individual pulling the assault weapon out of their bag. THAT would keep us safe. Just my two cents.

Terri

Good points, Terri. However.. the probing questions that the officer asked to most of us would just seem trivial, but to someone who is up to no good, perhaps if they can't answer all the questions, or if the answers are not verified, it may lead to perhaps stopping someone from doing something they should not. My 1 penny. :)

[smjj]

Good points, Terri. However.. the probing questions that the officer asked to most of us would just seem trivial, but to someone who is up to no good, perhaps if they can't answer all the questions, or if the answers are not verified, it may lead to perhaps stopping someone from doing something they should not. My 1 penny. :)


If anyone really wanted to do such a horrible thing, do you really think they would go and stand infront of a resort and start snapping pictures in plain view of people, guards and security cameras? Why when they can go to many many websites and get very detailed photos already. Heck you can even get aerial and satillite photos. I think if security is serious, they would stop hasseling what is clearly a guest taking a vacation photo and better spend their time and resources on the more covert and secretive true dangers. More than likely, Disney has done to their security what they have done to so many other areas. They have outsourced it and the guard probably was poorly trained and underpaid...smjj

[Pixieflip]

I still keep wondering if there was more going on that he did not/could not share with the guest. Perhaps there was an actual security threat that in the end did not come to fruition, but at that point, everything needed to be treated as suspicious. We may never know.

[Simba's Mom]

From a security standpoint, I can understand it looking odd to be taking photos of resort signage and buildings, especially if there are no people posing in the photos.



I often go solo, so I don't have anyone to take pictures of. What I always wonder about is when I take pictures of children that no one questions me. I love to take pictures of the kids interacting with the characters-grandmother in training, I guess! Yet no one questions this person by themselves taking pictures of strangers. So it seems that whether the photos have people or not can be either good or bad in these times.

[Hazzard101]

I still keep wondering if there was more going on that he did not/could not share with the guest. Perhaps there was an actual security threat that in the end did not come to fruition, but at that point, everything needed to be treated as suspicious. We may never know.


That is the reason for my post, There are things that people do that trigger questions about security. Simply taking pictures of the building may not be against the policy. The OP mentioned they had checked out and were taking pictures of the sign out front and then took pictures of the front entrance and then took pictures of the pool. (maybe not in that order)

If they were driving around the area and hopping out and taking pictures and hopping back in the car and taking pictures and so on. The officer may have thought they were in an area where they were not supposed to be. I don't know the specifics (in a car or walking around the parking lot ( it is a long walk from the sign to the front lobby) but there are many things that happen that the public does not know that make it necessary to tighten security.

Remember that when you are on Disney property they have the right to ask questions and deny access to areas when they have a suspicion.

I don't understand the outrage behind this officer asking questions to these people. Did he take their camera? Did he throw them out of the area? He even contacted or told them how to contact the supervisor.

He may have been unclear with the exact policy but the questions he was asking weren't over the top. I would have answered them and headed on down the road to my next resort.

I don't think the picture taking may have not been the only reason the OP was questioned. ( not that they were doing anything wrong but they may have been inadvertently putting up red flags the way they were doing it)

[KAT4DISNEY]

Remember that when you are on Disney property they have the right to ask questions and deny access to areas when they have a suspicion.

I don't understand the outrage behind this officer asking questions to these people. Did he take their camera? Did he throw them out of the area? He even contacted or told them how to contact the supervisor.

He may have been unclear with the exact policy but the questions he was asking weren't over the top. I would have answered them and headed on down the road to my next resort.


Certainly they do and that is fine. IMO the "problem" is that he quoted that picture taking of buildings is not allowed. That indicates a less than well trained guard who does not know the policies - or one who simply makes them up. They should be corrected on that and hopefully the supervisor did so. Otherwise that guard will be following quite a few people around needlessly enforcing a rule that doesn't even exist with Disney.

[thefirebuilds]

you can EASILY get a weapon into the parks but they're hassling you about snapping pics? nuts to that. Good on you for keeping your temper, I wouldn't have. The fake feel-good security at that place irritates the hell out of me, especially considering that's how my money is translated. It is not providing me a real service, only an illusion. Illusions are fine for everything else in that place.

[cpdwiz]

You see thats their easy out. Act however you want, go overboard all you want, be as over reactive as you want and if anyone says anything, just claim you are doing it for their safety and security. They use it as their "get out of jail card". Who is going to argue with them when they use this excuse...smjj

Easy out? I would rather over zealous than not. I would rather one irrational guard over-reacting instead of a force not trained enough.

I would guess if you had a problem, you would not call security?

[snowbunny]

It is not providing me a real service, only an illusion.

Agree with this, it's the same irritation I feel at a 20-year-old TSA rentacop's high-handed manner when he confiscates a 2-oz. bottle of hand lotion as a dangerous item because it wasn't in a baggie (yes I know, my fault, didn't I know the rules blah blah blah). It would be hilarious if not for the fact that real and serious security problems exist that need to be addressed while we play these ridiculous games, "it's against policy to take pictures of your resort."

To people who say that we are much safer since 9/11, there is no evidence of that. We should have been much safer after Timothy McVeigh, right? And much safer after the first WTC bombing? :sad2:

[cpdwiz]

Its funny how everyone always knows the job of a professional better than they do. Do you know if there was some type of threat to a resort, and the guards were on high alert? And, lets see...Someone posing as a tourist and taking pictures who is really up to no good...Nah, would never happen. I mean, bad people always wear signs saying BAD PERSON..No terrorist would pretend to be a tourist to get pictures of intel.

Some folks need to relax. Simply say, sorry, I did not know there was a policy, as I never did see one when I signed my DVC contracts. Maybe the guy was a little overboard. Then again, dealing with some types of the public can cause someone to go a little overboard.

As for the poster stating about safety being an illusion. There is SO much behind the scenes work at WDW that you do not hear of see. There are UC people in the parks. They watch. You should see the system in place if a bus is taken over. WOW.

Nothing is ever perfect, and not everyone can be happy at the same time. Just be thankful they at least care enough to work to keep you safe. I seem to recall someone ignoring the signs of a bunch of guys taking flying lessons, worried he would look like he was "profiling." Those guys did a lot of damage just acting like normal people wanting to learn to fly.

People have bad days....Maybe Mr Guard had one. So be it...Move on....I am sure we all have had one of those moments....At least he was looking out.

[cpdwiz]

Agree with this, it's the same irritation I feel at a 20-year-old TSA rentacop's high-handed manner when he confiscates a 2-oz. bottle of hand lotion as a dangerous item because it wasn't in a baggie (yes I know, my fault, didn't I know the rules blah blah blah). It would be hilarious if not for the fact that real and serious security problems exist that need to be addressed while we play these ridiculous games, "it's against policy to take pictures of your resort."

To people who say that we are much safer since 9/11, there is no evidence of that. We should have been much safer after Timothy McVeigh, right? And much safer after the first WTC bombing? :sad2:

Has strict standards and supervisors watching all the time. Ever work with them? I have...Know why the 2oz rule is in effect? A shoe bomber caused it....And, we are much safer after 9/11. Before that date, the WTC were attacked and it was not followed up and it happened again.

Again..Its not a perfect world, but, Disney does a very good job at keeping the millions that go there safe.

[Hazzard101]

Its funny how everyone always knows the job of a professional better than they do. Do you know if there was some type of threat to a resort, and the guards were on high alert? And, lets see...Someone posing as a tourist and taking pictures who is really up to no good...Nah, would never happen. I mean, bad people always wear signs saying BAD PERSON..No terrorist would pretend to be a tourist to get pictures of intel.

Some folks need to relax. Simply say, sorry, I did not know there was a policy, as I never did see one when I signed my DVC contracts. Maybe the guy was a little overboard. Then again, dealing with some types of the public can cause someone to go a little overboard.

As for the poster stating about safety being an illusion. There is SO much behind the scenes work at WDW that you do not hear of see. There are UC people in the parks. They watch. You should see the system in place if a bus is taken over. WOW.

Nothing is ever perfect, and not everyone can be happy at the same time. Just be thankful they at least care enough to work to keep you safe. I seem to recall someone ignoring the signs of a bunch of guys taking flying lessons, worried he would look like he was "profiling." Those guys did a lot of damage just acting like normal people wanting to learn to fly.

People have bad days....Maybe Mr Guard had one. So be it...Move on....I am sure we all have had one of those moments....At least he was looking out.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

It is when we get complacent and overlook the small stuff and are afraid of asking questions is when 30 plus people get shot, killed or wounded because someone was afraid of acting on the suspicious activity of someone. Does this sound familiar?

What people don't know about when it comes to security and threats would scare the daylights out of them. Things go on all over, including Disney. I would hope people would be grateful to that TSA agent for following the protocol to the letter.

Blah Blah Blah. Oh you didn't know the rules sir? Thats fine just read them next time, you can go ahead thats a stupid rule anyhow.

I can't believe that people are so critical of people trying to do a good job. Do you really think that rules are made just for the fun of making rules? Do you think this over worked and underpaid TSA officer wants to listen to the person tell them off about how stupid the rule is? I am sure they would rather overlook the little bottle of lotion rather than listen to hundreds of people who don't bother to check the rules before embarking on a trip. As stupid as it may seem to you there are reasons beyond your comprehension for every little stupid rule.

People complain about security and cops and are quick to point out mistakes or criticize someone who didn't quite understand policy. But when something is wrong and people are threatened, who is the first person they call? The same security or police officer and thank God they come running to the aid
of the same people who call the supervisors to make sure the officer is reprimanded for his outrageous questioning.

The same way Disney magic is created from behind the scenes, there are untold numbers of "rentacop's" doing thankless jobs to keep the visitors secure every day. Their effort affords you, the guest, a secure feeling when you are at the resorts and the parks.

The next time you are enjoying some Disney Magic and you walk past one of the security professionals you should thank them for standing guard over you and your loved ones. :cheer2:

[Maistre Gracey]

Has strict standards and supervisors watching all the time. Ever work with them? I have...Know why the 2oz rule is in effect? A shoe bomber caused it....And, we are much safer after 9/11. Before that date, the WTC were attacked and it was not followed up and it happened again.

Again..Its not a perfect world, but, Disney does a very good job at keeping the millions that go there safe.
First, it's a 3oz rule. Second, it may as well be a 1qt rule, seeing as though you can pack multiple bottles of the same liquid into a 1qt bag.

Disney does have a lot of behind the scenes security, but I'm certain much of their success has been pure luck. The bag check is a complete joke.

MG

[Hazzard101]

First, it's a 3oz rule. Second, it may as well be a 1qt rule, seeing as though you can pack multiple bottles of the same liquid into a 1qt bag.

Disney does have a lot of behind the scenes security, but I'm certain much of their success has been pure luck. The bag check is a complete joke.

MG

The fact that you make contact with an officer during the check and they get a chance to observe your demeanor while going through the procedure of being searched is the real advantage of the process. If someone wants to sneak something in the parks they would probably not do it in a bag. That is where the Vegas style security inside the park takes over. It is a very large mistake to believe that the lack of major incidents for as long as Disney has been in business with the Millions of visitors each year is pure luck.

[Maistre Gracey]

The fact that you make contact with an officer during the check and they get a chance to observe your demeanor while going through the procedure of being searched is the real advantage of the process. If someone wants to sneak something in the parks they would probably not do it in a bag. That is where the Vegas style security inside the park takes over. It is a very large mistake to believe that the lack of major incidents for as long as Disney has been in business with the Millions of visitors each year is pure luck.
Nah.. They don't even pick their head up to look at you. Besides, if they wanted to see your demeanor they wouldn't let guests without bags go without scrutiny.

MG

[Chuck S]

A reminder, this thread is getting off the topic of Disney World Security and bordering on political discussion, which is not allowed on the DIS. If it does not return to topic, it will need to be closed.

[Sammie]

Disney security does a much better job of it than you give them credit. As to the bag search, what makes any of you so sure they are not watching that line from somewhere else and including those that do not have a bag. Alot can be told about a person by their body language.

[cpdwiz]

That Disney does not know what they are doing?

Again, the old, until you have walked in my shoes, dont judge me applies.

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE can always do my job better, yet, they still call ME when they are in danger, need help, or are scared.

Disney's security is no joke. You have the uniformed guards, and you have specialists that are trained to do their job. Ever been trained by the FBI in detection? Its amazing what to look for.

If Disney's security was a joke, and not doing their job, there would be a LOT of incidents, which there is not. Celebs would not feel comfortable going there.

[Hazzard101]

Disney security does a much better job of it than you give them credit. As to the bag search, what makes any of you so sure they are not watching that line from somewhere else and including those that do not have a bag. Alot can be told about a person by their body language.

I know for a fact that big brother is watching at Disney. Also if you pay attention there is a security officer at every point of entrance along with a few police officers. Together they are trained as to what to look for. :thumbsup2
The police are stationed near the bag search area. Could it be they are watching the people as they go through the bag search line?

The real trick to great security is to make everything look normal and yet have all bases covered. They Do this very well at Disney. :cheer2:

[Hazzard101]

That Disney does not know what they are doing?

Again, the old, until you have walked in my shoes, dont judge me applies.

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE can always do my job better, yet, they still call ME when they are in danger, need help, or are scared.

Disney's security is no joke. You have the uniformed guards, and you have specialists that are trained to do their job. Ever been trained by the FBI in detection? Its amazing what to look for.

If Disney's security was a joke, and not doing their job, there would be a LOT of incidents, which there is not. Celebs would not feel comfortable going there.

The fact that these people think that the security is sub par is a compliment to how good they do their jobs. I have been trained ( not by FBI ) but local law enforcement in detection and preventative measures. I said it before and I will say it again.

The public has the convenience of not knowing what really happens around them. They are afforded this luxury by the men and woman who are burdened with going through life knowing the way it is and watching out for the public. Once you work in law enforcement or security ( I work for the school system ) You never get to look at things simply again.

Disney security personnel do a great job and have been trained to look at the whole picture.

[Halle]

Every once in a while you run into a jerk security guard. It rarely happens, but sometimes it does. I had a guy at the MK giving me an extreme hassle about having a manual tire guage and my car keys in my fanny pack!! And I mean he was nasty--one step from a strip search, LOL, because I carried this stuff in my fanny pack. EGADS.

Just curious, why did you have a tire gauge? sounds like something DH would carry, LOL!!

[Maistre Gracey]

About a year ago Disney was going to experiment with metal detectors at the MK, but scrapped the project partially because of cost. If the eagle eyes at the security check point were so good, why would they consider metal detectors?

Point is, yes, Disney security does a lot of things right. They also do a lot behind the scenes.
That said, I will never be convinced the bag check is anything more than show.
If they were looking at guests entering from a remote area, they still wouldn't need the bag check. They could just watch them as they pass thru the turnstyle.

My nephew was carrying a small camera case. security insisted he open it for inspection.
The next day he put the same case in his pocket.. No inspection.

MG

[anna08]

I thought front gate security in November was much more thorough this trip. One guard engaged each person in conversation which I thought an improvement as well. Now, I have no experience in security work, but I think that might help them narrow down who might need a more thorough search. Someone told me once that because Disney is a private company, security can and does profile when screening. I haven't seen evidence of this firsthand. I guess I am just hopeful that they do security as well as they do fun at WDW.

[twinklebug]

I once read a forum filled with retired Disney security folk. (I didn't keep the url) From what I read they are very proud of what they do and do it well particularly considering the sheer numbers of Guests and cast members as well as property they have to keep safe. And, they truly care about people.

There are a few young-guns who are trying to show off how good they are - you'll find them in almost every occupation around. Unfortunately it seems our OP ran into one. I hope he didn't give you the feel that all disney security personnel are like him. They're not.

[DVCPAT]

I know for a fact that big brother is watching at Disney. Also if you pay attention there is a security officer at every point of entrance along with a few police officers. Together they are trained as to what to look for. :thumbsup2
The police are stationed near the bag search area. Could it be they are watching the people as they go through the bag search line?

The real trick to great security is to make everything look normal and yet have all bases covered. They Do this very well at Disney. :cheer2:


I read an interesting article about WDW entrance tickets and finger print scan. Disney has a data base that holds your finger print and Identification for the length of the pass, plus thirty days. Once the time frame passes, the data is purged without anyone viewing the information. If they have cause, they can process the data and find out additional information. They also have automatic tracking surveillance that can follow a suspicious individual throughout the park. The bag checks may seem like a joke, but it could also serve as a way to segregate visitors for a second look from another security system.

[DVCPAT]

About a year ago Disney was going to experiment with metal detectors at the MK, but scrapped the project partially because of cost. If the eagle eyes at the security check point were so good, why would they consider metal detectors?
MG




Below is an interesting article from the Los Angeles Times. Sounds like they could install metal detectors if they wanted to……





Disney Research Chief Joins U.S. Spy Agency
Technology: Eric Haseltine is leaving Imagineering unit for a key post with NSA.
July 17, 2002|RICHARD VERRIER
Eric Haseltine is moving from one top secret organization to another.
Walt Disney Co.'s chief of research and development is leaving to become head of research for the National Security Agency, which uses sophisticated technology to gather intelligence, break codes and protect sensitive government information systems.
Haseltine worked for a decade at Walt Disney Imagineering, the company's design and development group. As such, he would seem an unlikely choice for his new government mission. But the worlds of the NSA and Disney Imagineering aren't so dissimilar. Both include a diverse group of top-level scientists and share a penchant for security and secrecy (Disney won't say how many scientists it employs). There's a certain institutional quality to the unmarked, drab buildings that make up the sprawling Walt Disney Imagineering complex in Glendale.
Beyond developing innovative ride systems for theme parks, Disney's research and development team also has expertise in areas with military applications, including virtual reality technology. Disney scientists are at the forefront of interactive TV and developing systems for protecting the company against Internet piracy.
Haseltine, 50, who holds a doctorate in physiological psychology, is no stranger to the defense world. He spent 13 years at Hughes Aircraft Co., where he managed R&D projects and was known as a top expert on flight simulation. He joined Disney in 1992.
In his new role, he will lead a research and technology team for the spy agency, a division of the Defense Department. Neither NSA nor Haseltine will detail his exact responsibilities.
"I'm particularly motivated because of what happened on Sept. 11," Haseltine said. "Under ordinary circumstances, I would never have dreamed of leaving Disney, but these aren't ordinary circumstances."
Air Force Lt. Gen. Michael V. Hayden, director of the NSA, said in a statement that Haseltine "is the right leader to drive our R&D area to heightened technological superiority for national security."
Disney has not yet named a replacement for Haseltine. "While we never like to see someone of Eric's caliber leave," said Disney spokeswoman Marie Garvey, "the company understands his desire to serve his country."
Haseltine led Disney's push into virtual reality entertainment, which culminated in the DisneyQuest regional entertainment centers. He also played a key role in bringing enhanced TV to ABC's "Monday Night Football."
He became head of research and development two years ago. He starts his new job as the NSA's associate director of research Aug. 5.
Haseltine is the latest among several senior scientists and executives who have left the vaunted Walt Disney Imagineering division in recent years, mostly to pursue Web-related ventures.
Among them was former research and development director Bran Ferren, who recruited a number of top scientists to help Disney tap the potential of the Internet. They included personal computer pioneer Alan Kay and Marvin Minsky, one of the brains behind artificial intelligence.

[Hazzard101]

About a year ago Disney was going to experiment with metal detectors at the MK, but scrapped the project partially because of cost. If the eagle eyes at the security check point were so good, why would they consider metal detectors?

Point is, yes, Disney security does a lot of things right. They also do a lot behind the scenes.
That said, I will never be convinced the bag check is anything more than show.
If they were looking at guests entering from a remote area, they still wouldn't need the bag check. They could just watch them as they pass thru the turnstyle.

My nephew was carrying a small camera case. security insisted he open it for inspection.
The next day he put the same case in his pocket.. No inspection.

MG

First, when looking for a threat they are usually looking for something more substantial than a gun that can fit in your pocket.

When you go through bag check they are looking for anything out of the ordinary. If there is going to be a serious threat the device would be hard to conceal in a duffel bag or purse. If there was say an explosive device small enough to mix in with some chapstick or other stuff it would not really be big enough to do any substantial damage. An explosive device would be easy to spot when someone opened a bag. So for the intent of a bag search they are very successful for the purpose intended. It is also a deterrent to most would be nut jobs.

As for metal detectors, I would have to venture a guess that the reason they decided against them had very little to do with cost, my school system has quite a few and we are not a wealthy system.

I would have to believe that it was more the fact that using metal detectors at an entrance at Disney would be a logistical nightmare. If you have ever been through a metal detector checkpoint, you know that you need to stop and empty your pockets, take out your wallet, remove your sunglasses, and sometimes remove your belt. After this you still set off the detector with some stupid little piece of metal, a button on your pants, some rivets, your plate in your head.

After walking through a few times you have to be hand scanned with a hand held wand. After all of this they still have to do a bag search.

We do this at our sporting events at school. It is very time consuming and we are only talking about hundreds of people. Now think about thousands of people at a clip all day. After making it through the metal detector, putting all your stuff back together going through the bag check. Now you have to go through the turnstiles remember the great system with the fingerprint check and your key to the kingdom card or AP those don't always go through the first time, or the second, or the 12th.

No system is fool proof but unless you work in the business be alert and give security the respect you would give any other cast member. They deserve it. Do they make mistakes? Of course. But doesn't everyone. There are many layers of security at Disney and each layer may look minor but together they make up a very elaborate line of defense.

[Hazzard101]

I read an interesting article about WDW entrance tickets and finger print scan. Disney has a data base that holds your finger print and Identification for the length of the pass, plus thirty days. Once the time frame passes, the data is purged without anyone viewing the information. If they have cause, they can process the data and find out additional information. They also have automatic tracking surveillance that can follow a suspicious individual throughout the park. The bag checks may seem like a joke, but it could also serve as a way to segregate visitors for a second look from another security system.


I remember the controversy behind that. Just to help clarify, the fingerprints that are scanned are not full prints it uses only a few points. Not saying I know it all I do know that the prints taken from guests are very minimal and could not be used as complete identification. What I mean is they are not complete enough to match with the finger print database of say the FBI.

Good point Pat

[Maistre Gracey]

First, when looking for a threat they are usually looking for something more substantial than a gun that can fit in your pocket.

When you go through bag check they are looking for anything out of the ordinary. If there is going to be a serious threat the device would be hard to conceal in a duffel bag or purse. If there was say an explosive device small enough to mix in with some chapstick or other stuff it would not really be big enough to do any substantial damage. An explosive device would be easy to spot when someone opened a bag. So for the intent of a bag search they are very successful for the purpose intended. It is also a deterrent to most would be nut jobs.

As for metal detectors, I would have to venture a guess that the reason they decided against them had very little to do with cost, my school system has quite a few and we are not a wealthy system.

I would have to believe that it was more the fact that using metal detectors at an entrance at Disney would be a logistical nightmare. If you have ever been through a metal detector checkpoint, you know that you need to stop and empty your pockets, take out your wallet, remove your sunglasses, and sometimes remove your belt. After this you still set off the detector with some stupid little piece of metal, a button on your pants, some rivets, your plate in your head.

After walking through a few times you have to be hand scanned with a hand held wand. After all of this they still have to do a bag search.

We do this at our sporting events at school. It is very time consuming and we are only talking about hundreds of people. Now think about thousands of people at a clip all day. After making it through the metal detector, putting all your stuff back together going through the bag check. Now you have to go through the turnstiles remember the great system with the fingerprint check and your key to the kingdom card or AP those don't always go through the first time, or the second, or the 12th.

No system is fool proof but unless you work in the business be alert and give security the respect you would give any other cast member. They deserve it. Do they make mistakes? Of course. But doesn't everyone. There are many layers of security at Disney and each layer may look minor but together they make up a very elaborate line of defense.
The detectors would indeed slow things down, but that's because they work!

I'm truly happy to see many people believe the bag check is a good system. That is what they are banking on... Making people feel good, and the "word on the street" that security checks bags.
It does sound scary to the bad guys when they first hear it, and that may initially stop them from trying... until they see what a farce it really is.

MG

[Doctor P]

Just curious, why did you have a tire gauge? sounds like something DH would carry, LOL!!

Very simple. I carry my fanny back both when I ride my bike and when I am driving. I always have the ability to check the tire pressure if air is needed in the tires of the vehicle on which or in which I am riding (this comes up almost everytime I ride my bike because I ride so infrequently). This way I never have to search for it, either, LOL. You know, I can understand the concern about the tire gauge. It was when the idiot started saying there was something wrong with carrying keys into the park.

[DVCPAT]

I remember the controversy behind that. Just to help clarify, the fingerprints that are scanned are not full prints it uses only a few points. Not saying I know it all I do know that the prints taken from guests are very minimal and could not be used as complete identification. What I mean is they are not complete enough to match with the finger print database of say the FBI.

Good point Pat

If I remember correctly, they can use the fingerprints. They store the fingerprint in software that really isn’t a fingerprint. If they need to construct the finger print and then search for an identification, they can do that within the ticket life plus thirty days. They might have to get approval from a judge?

[Maistre Gracey]

I remember the controversy behind that. Just to help clarify, the fingerprints that are scanned are not full prints it uses only a few points. Not saying I know it all I do know that the prints taken from guests are very minimal and could not be used as complete identification. What I mean is they are not complete enough to match with the finger print database of say the FBI.

Good point Pat
I also wonder about this system.. Last year I was able to enter using any of my fingers, including my thumb.
I'm not exactly sure how the system works. Perhaps that's normal?? If not, perhaps it was just a one time glitch.

MG

[Maistre Gracey]

Very simple. I carry my fanny back both when I ride my bike and when I am driving. I always have the ability to check the tire pressure if air is needed in the tires of the vehicle on which or in which I am riding (this comes up almost everytime I ride my bike because I ride so infrequently). This way I never have to search for it, either, LOL. You know, I can understand the concern about the tire gauge. It was when the idiot started saying there was something wrong with carrying keys into the park.
For those of us who are a bit slower, can you explain why a tire pressure gauge is a banned item?

MG

[Hazzard101]

I also wonder about this system.. Last year I was able to enter using any of my fingers, including my thumb.
I'm not exactly sure how the system works. Perhaps that's normal?? If not, perhaps it was just a one time glitch.

MG

I have to think it is time to let this one pass. I am thinking you have no real understanding about security. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to my educated understanding of security and procedures. If you want to believe that Disney is an unsecured place that has no control over who gets in and what they bring that's fine. As for me I know better.

BTW depending on when you enter the park the finger print scan is turned off during busy times. The scan is not really a security measure but a measure to keep people from using a ticket that isn't theirs. They turn it off for speed as well. This I know for a fact.

[Maistre Gracey]

I have to think it is time to let this one pass. I am thinking you have no real understanding about security. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to my educated understanding of security and procedures. If you want to believe that Disney is an unsecured place that has no control over who gets in and what they bring that's fine. As for me I know better.

BTW depending on when you enter the park the finger print scan is turned off during busy times. The scan is not really a security measure but a measure to keep people from using a ticket that isn't theirs. They turn it off for speed as well. This I know for a fact.
I do train a fair amount on security.. seeing as though I make my living as a pilot.

Besides, I'm not really sure how that relates to the finger scan??

MG

[Maistre Gracey]

IIf you want to believe that Disney is an unsecured place that has no control over who gets in and what they bring that's fine. As for me I know better.
I don't believe I ever alluded to this..??

BTW depending on when you enter the park the finger print scan is turned off during busy times. The scan is not really a security measure but a measure to keep people from using a ticket that isn't theirs. They turn it off for speed as well. This I know for a fact.
I had a lengthy discussion with the CM at the International Gateway. Together we discovered I could use any finger.

MG

[Hazzard101]

If I remember correctly, they can use the fingerprints. They store the fingerprint in software that really isn’t a fingerprint. If they need to construct the finger print and then search for an identification, they can do that within the ticket life plus thirty days. They might have to get approval from a judge?

If this is true than they lied to the public in the article I read. I am not trying to argue I am really telling what I read. If that is the truth I am a bit unnerved that they have this ability.:confused:

[DVCPAT]

If this is true than they lied to the public in the article I read. I am not trying to argue I am really telling what I read. If that is the truth I am a bit unnerved that they have this ability.:confused:

Technically, Disney isn’t lying. They don’t have your finger print.

Disney states….

Kim Prunty, spokeswoman for Walt Disney World. The new scanner, like the old finger geometry scanner, "takes an image, identifies a series of points, measures the distance between those points, and turns it into a numerical value." She added, "To call it a fingerprint is a little bit of a stretch."

The biometrics manufacturer states….

Raul Diaz, Lumidigm’s vice president of sales and marketing, said it is "easy" to change a system from capturing numerical information to storing an entire fingerprint image. "It's a software option," Diaz said. "It's changing just one command." Diaz said few, if any, companies store the fingerprint images due to privacy concerns.



I’ll try and find the article that says how the information is stored.

[Hazzard101]

I'm truly happy to see many people believe the bag check is a good system. That is what they are banking on... Making people feel good, and the "word on the street" that security checks bags.
It does sound scary to the bad guys when they first hear it, and that may initially stop them from trying... until they see what a farce it really is.

MG

I don't believe I ever alluded to this..??
See above quote!

I had a lengthy discussion with the CM at the International Gateway. Together we discovered I could use any finger.

The cast member was obviously unaware that the finger print system was not enabled at the time seeing it is done through the system and not by individuals. and seeing the CM learned this at the same time you did it would lead me to believe they had no clue to how the system worked :confused3

MG

I have replied to the quotes in red.

I do train a fair amount on security.. seeing as though I make my living as a pilot.

I don't claim to know how to fly a plane and don't make comments about things I really don't know much about. That was my point.


Besides, I'm not really sure how that relates to the finger scan??

I was talking about the fact that you believe that the bag check point was a complete joke.

MG

[Hazzard101]

Technically, Disney isn’t lying. They don’t have your finger print.

Disney states….

Kim Prunty, spokeswoman for Walt Disney World. The new scanner, like the old finger geometry scanner, "takes an image, identifies a series of points, measures the distance between those points, and turns it into a numerical value." She added, "To call it a fingerprint is a little bit of a stretch."

The biometrics manufacturer states….

Raul Diaz, Lumidigm’s vice president of sales and marketing, said it is "easy" to change a system from capturing numerical information to storing an entire fingerprint image. "It's a software option," Diaz said. "It's changing just one command." Diaz said few, if any, companies store the fingerprint images due to privacy concerns.



I’ll try and find the article that says how the information is stored.

That is what I read. I understood that this meant that they have changed the software to only store partial prints. This is the info I was referring to.
Cool beans. I figure it would take an act of congress to get the info from the computer. I understand what you were saying now.

[DVCPAT]

That is what I read. I understood that this meant that they have changed the software to only store partial prints. This is the info I was referring to.
Cool beans. I figure it would take an act of congress to get the info from the computer. I understand what you were saying now.


The BBC had an article describing how Disney monitors new shows with employees using night vision goggles. People take cameras inside and make boot leg movies. The cameras emit light which can be easily detected through night vision goggles. If Disney takes these measures for copyright infringement, imagine the technology securing the happiest place on earth. I think they want to portray Disney as a place to escape reality….that’s why they don’t have overt security measures.

[Maistre Gracey]

Hazzard, I don't claim to be a security expert, BUT..
My point is if the Disney security bag check is so great, than why doesn't the TSA do a cursory glance in your bag and call it complete?

I think the bag check is a farce, but that doesn't mean I "believe that Disney is an unsecured place that has no control over who gets in and what they bring".

I never said Disney security does a poor job overall.
I did say the bag check is a joke, and one year the finger scan didn't seem to work properly. I stand by those statements.

There are other weak areas that I will not mention, most of which are a matter of policy, not implementation.

MG

[Maistre Gracey]

Actually, this whole thing is silly. All because someone had the gall to take pictures at Walt Disney World. :rolleyes:

MG

[smjj]

Easy out? I would rather over zealous than not. I would rather one irrational guard over-reacting instead of a force not trained enough.

I would guess if you had a problem, you would not call security?

So, if I read your statement correctly, you are saying they can do whatever they want to guest so long as they state it is in the name of safety and security?? That gives them free rein to be as overzealous and irrational as possible and if that is the case, then let them do whatever they want and don't worry about procedures and training. Just turn them loose. Your OK with it as long as they tell you it for your own safety??..smjj

[Hazzard101]

So, if I read your statement correctly, you are saying they can do whatever they want to guest so long as they state it is in the name of safety and security?? That gives them free rein to be as overzealous and irrational as possible and if that is the case, then let them do whatever they want and don't worry about procedures and training. Just turn them loose. Your OK with it as long as they tell you it for your own safety??..smjj

My thoughts on the OP are simply this, We don't know how the OP was taking pictures and how they were acting while doing so. The officer seemed to have reason to think they were out of the ordinary. Maybe he just got out of training and misunderstood the policy and if that is the case the OP did the right thing and discussed this with the supervisor. The supervisor will no doubt clarify the policy with the officer. Besides mis stating the policy I cant see anything else this officer did that was too over the top.
The questions he asked are standard and not too probing.

As for no training, Disney has one of the most comprehensive training procedures I have ever heard of. Other huge corporations come to them for training. I would have to believe they hold the same standards when it comes to training security personnel.

The rest of your statement seems a bit unsubstantiated. What the officer did was not overzealous and irrational IMHO. He may have been unclear about a policy but no actions described by the OP seem irrational.

I have had a few encounters with security and they have always been professional and helpful. I have encountered CMs who were very rude and unprofessional this is not the norm and if you think about the number of employees at Disney you would expect a small number of situations.

For the most part, the overall lesson I will take from this discussion is Disney is a great place to take your family and I am happy to know that the people in charge of security are willing to step up and check something out that they believe may be a risk. He could have seen something and said, "they don't pay me enough to check that out, and what if I am wrong?" He would have avoided the confrontation and the supervisor but it also could have been someone doing something wrong and we would never have known until it was too late.

[Hazzard101]

I also wonder about this system.. Last year I was able to enter using any of my fingers, including my thumb.
I'm not exactly sure how the system works. Perhaps that's normal?? If not, perhaps it was just a one time glitch.

MG


BTW did you try it with no finger?

[DVCPAT]

So, if I read your statement correctly, you are saying they can do whatever they want to guest so long as they state it is in the name of safety and security?? That gives them free rein to be as overzealous and irrational as possible and if that is the case, then let them do whatever they want and don't worry about procedures and training. Just turn them loose. Your OK with it as long as they tell you it for your own safety??..smjj

I think you might be exaggerating just a bit. The security guard had a conversation with Bill…..

“The conversation goes on for about 5 minutes and he asks us things like where are you staying, are you a Guest staying at WDW, When did we arrive, when are we leaving. The whole thing was really weird.”

Maybe some type of threat was made in the area. When I witnessed Disney bring a bomb sniffing dog in the AKL lobby, I assume they had good cause. Disney can’t win either way. If they use overt security measures, people get worked up about a few questions. When Disney uses covert security, people say security is a joke.

[Maistre Gracey]

BTW did you try it with no finger?
It wouldn't spit out the ticket until I used a fingure.

MG

[Geoff_M]

That is what I read. I understood that this meant that they have changed the software to only store partial prints. This is the info I was referring to.
Cool beans. I figure it would take an act of congress to get the info from the computer. I understand what you were saying now.To understand the issue, you need to look at the "why" of the situation. The reason that WDW does the "finger scans" is to prevent ticket sharing. To accomplish this effectively Disney doesn't need a foolproof system that locks things down to the fingerprint level... or anything close to it. If they can use a system that only gives a 1% or 2% (or even a 10%) chance of Person A being able to pass themselves off as Person B then they've succeeded in effectively stopping ticket sharing. Disney's systems take length measurements of two of your fingers, drops those numbers into a formula and the result is a single number that's stored with your ticket information. That's it. Information about your fingers cannot be reverse engineered out of the number as more than one set of differing lengths of fingers can result in the same end result "number".

It's like the check digit on the end of a UPC bar code. If you look at a consumer package's bar code you'll normally see a single number set apart on the right from the rest of the numbers. That number isn't actually part of the UPC, it's the UPC "check digit". Here's the explanation (http://www.azalea.com/UPC/UPC_checkdigit.html) of how they compute the number. UPC check digits are used to help ensure that the barcode scanner read the right number. If the cash register looks at the full bar code read with each scan and sees that the read check digit matches the one expected based on the other digits read to the left of it, it calls the code "good". Since there's only ten different check digit possibilities (0 - 9), the system offers a 90% chance of catching a bad reading of a bar code. However, if they used a formula that utilized 2 check digits, the rate would go up to 99%. Note that the check digit doesn't help you determine the UPC code in reverse because in theory 10% of all UPC codes have the same check digit. But the retailer association that designed the UPC code system felt that a 90% chance of catching an incorrectly read bar code, when it happens, was good enough for their needs.

Also, keep in mind that the more complex system that Disney uses at the turnstiles, the more the chance for problems and the more data "overhead" they will have to deal with. Accordingly, fingerprint reading will take up more system storage and more processing time to compare. Since Disney doesn't need a system that's 99.99999999% accurate, they aren't going to make any more grief for themselves than they have to.

As to the OP's comments about the security guard's stated prohibition, photographers (pro and amateur) have been putting up with this sort of hassle from police and private "Barney Fifes" ever since 9/11. In almost every case, the official has been 100% wrong about the supposed prohibitions that they state. Unless your taking photos of something like a military facility protected by an Executive Order, the exterior of a prison, or something similar, then you're OK. And while it's true that the owners (or their representatives) of private properties and eject you from their facility if you do not honor their request to not take photos, that doesn't stop their guards from making up such stuff either.

[DVCPAT]

Actually, this whole thing is silly. All because someone had the gall to take pictures at Walt Disney World. :rolleyes:

MG


Have you ever flown into Israel’s airport in Tel Aviv? EI LI Airlines is the safest in the world. How do they do it??? They have a simple conversation with suspicious people. Israel does the following………..

Of course the Israelis check for bombs and weapons too, but always with the understanding that things don't hijack planes, terrorists do -- and that the best way to detect terrorists is to focus on intercepting not bad things, but bad people. To a much greater degree than in the United States, security at El Al and Ben Gurion depends on intelligence and intuition -- what Rafi Ron, the former director of security at Ben Gurion, calls the human factor.
Israeli airport security, much of it invisible to the untrained eye, begins before passengers even enter the terminal. Officials constantly monitor behavior, alert to clues that may hint at danger: bulky clothing, say, or a nervous manner. Profilers -- that's what they're called -- make a point of interviewing travelers, sometimes at length. They probe, as one profiling supervisor told CBS, for ``anything out of the ordinary, anything that does not fit." Their questions can seem odd or intrusive, especially if your only previous experience with an airport interrogation was being asked whether you packed your bags yourself.
Unlike in US airports, where passengers go through security after checking in for their flights and submitting their luggage, security at Ben Gurion comes first. Only when the profiler is satisfied that a passenger poses no risk is he or she allowed to proceed to the check-in counter. By that point, there is no need to make him remove his shoes, or to confiscate his bottle of water.

[Maistre Gracey]

Have you ever flown into Israel’s airport in Tel Aviv? EI LI Airlines is the safest in the world. How do they do it??? They have a simple conversation with suspicious people. Israel does the following………..

Of course the Israelis check for bombs and weapons too, but always with the understanding that things don't hijack planes, terrorists do -- and that the best way to detect terrorists is to focus on intercepting not bad things, but bad people. To a much greater degree than in the United States, security at El Al and Ben Gurion depends on intelligence and intuition -- what Rafi Ron, the former director of security at Ben Gurion, calls the human factor.
Israeli airport security, much of it invisible to the untrained eye, begins before passengers even enter the terminal. Officials constantly monitor behavior, alert to clues that may hint at danger: bulky clothing, say, or a nervous manner. Profilers -- that's what they're called -- make a point of interviewing travelers, sometimes at length. They probe, as one profiling supervisor told CBS, for ``anything out of the ordinary, anything that does not fit." Their questions can seem odd or intrusive, especially if your only previous experience with an airport interrogation was being asked whether you packed your bags yourself.
Unlike in US airports, where passengers go through security after checking in for their flights and submitting their luggage, security at Ben Gurion comes first. Only when the profiler is satisfied that a passenger poses no risk is he or she allowed to proceed to the check-in counter. By that point, there is no need to make him remove his shoes, or to confiscate his bottle of water.
Yes... But... We're not talking about someone acting suspicious while flying to Israel.

We're talking about a guest taking a picture AT WALT DISNEY WORLD! I don't understand how that is out of the ordinary in any way, shape, or fashion.

MG

[Maistre Gracey]

To understand the issue, you need to look at the "why" of the situation. The reason that WDW does the "finger scans" is to prevent ticket sharing. To accomplish this effectively Disney doesn't need a foolproof system that locks things down to the fingerprint level... or anything close to it. If they can use a system that only gives a 1% or 2% (or even a 10%) chance of Person A being able to pass themselves off as Person B then they've succeeded in effectively stopping ticket sharing. Disney's systems take length measurements of two of your fingers, drops those numbers into a formula and the result is a single number that's stored with your ticket information. That's it. Information about your fingers cannot be reverse engineered out of the number as more than one set of differing lengths of fingers can result in the same end result "number".

It's like the check digit on the end of a UPC bar code. If you look at a consumer package's bar code you'll normally see a single number set apart on the right from the rest of the numbers. That number isn't actually part of the UPC, it's the UPC "check digit". Here's the explanation (http://www.azalea.com/UPC/UPC_checkdigit.html) of how they compute the number. UPC check digits are used to help ensure that the barcode scanner read the right number. If the cash register looks at the full bar code read with each scan and sees that the read check digit matches the one expected based on the other digits read to the left of it, then calls the code "good". Since there's only ten different check digit possibilities (0 - 9), the system offers a 90% chance of catching a bad reading of a bar code. However, if they used a formula that utilized 2 check digits, the rate would go up to 99%.

Also, keep in mind that the more complex system that Disney uses at the turnstiles, the more the chance for problems and the more data "overhead" they will have to deal with. Actually fingerprint reading will take up more system storage and more processing time to compare. Since Disney doesn't need a system that 99.999999% accurate, they aren't going to make any more grief for themselves than they have to.

As to the OP's comments about the security guard's stated prohibition, photographers (pro and amateur) have been putting up with this sort of hassle from police and private "Barney Fifes" ever since 9/11. In almost every case, the official has been 100% wrong about the supposed prohibitions that they state. Unless your taking photos of something like a military facility protected by an Executive Order, the exterior of a prison, or something similar, then you're OK. And while it's true that the owners (or their representatives) of private properties and eject you from their facility if you do not honor their request to not take photos, that doesn't stop their guards from making up such stuff either.
I was under the impression the finger width biometrics was the old "squeeze" type thing of the past, and the new system scanned a couple points of your prints. Not the whole print, but just a couple points.

MG

[Geoff_M]

I was under the impression the finger width biometrics was the old "squeeze" type thing of the past, and the new system scanned a couple points of your prints. Not the whole print, but just a couple points.

MGRegardless of what they're measuring (length, width, or a couple "points" on your print), the end result is the same. They're using a "check digit" type scheme that does a reasonably good job of determining that the ticket inserted is yours, but doesn't provide information that can be used to point to you in a vacuum of other facts. It's like the PIN on your ATM card. Your PIN code only provides a 99.99% rate of protection (assuming a single random guess)... but if someone says "Well this dude's PIN is 1234, who is it?" you can't answer "Hey, that's Geoff_M!!!" since approximately 100 people in a million have the same PIN as me.

[Maistre Gracey]

Regardless of what they're measuring (length, width, or a couple "points" on your print), the end result is the same. They're using a "check digit" type scheme that does a reasonably good job of determining that the ticket inserted is yours, but doesn't provide information that can be used to point to you in a vacuum of other facts. It's like the PIN on your ATM card. Your PIN code only provides a 99.99% rate of protection (assuming a single random guess)... but if someone says "Well this dude's PIN is 1234, who is it?" you can't answer "Hey, that's Geoff_M!!!" since approximately 100 people in a million have the same PIN as me.
Got it... Agreed.

MG

[Geoff_M]

Got it... Agreed.

MGHere'e the relevant quote (http://www.clickorlando.com/news/9774630/detail.html) from a Disney official on the "controversy":"We are not collecting fingerprints," Disney representative Kim Prunty said. "We are not collecting personal information. The sole purpose is to create a numerical value that links out guest with their Magic Your Way tickets.

...

"The system takes an image, it identifies points on that image and measures the distance between those points and immediately creates a numerical value on the blink of an eye," Prunty said. "And it's the numerical value that's stored in our system and recalled when a guest reenters our turn styles using their Magic Your Way tickets."

[DVCPAT]

Regardless of what they're measuring (length, width, or a couple "points" on your print), the end result is the same. They're using a "check digit" type scheme that does a reasonably good job of determining that the ticket inserted is yours, but doesn't provide information that can be used to point to you in a vacuum of other facts. It's like the PIN on your ATM card. Your PIN code only provides a 99.99% rate of protection (assuming a single random guess)... but if someone says "Well this dude's PIN is 1234, who is it?" you can't answer "Hey, that's Geoff_M!!!" since approximately 100 people in a million have the same PIN as me.



The biometrics manufacturer says it’s a simple software option…...

Raul Diaz, Lumidigm’s vice president of sales and marketing, said it is "easy" to change a system from capturing numerical information to storing an entire fingerprint image. "It's a software option," Diaz said. "It's changing just one command." Diaz said few, if any, companies store the fingerprint images due to privacy concerns.

[Geoff_M]

The biometrics manufacturer says it’s a simple software option…...

Raul Diaz, Lumidigm’s vice president of sales and marketing, said it is "easy" to change a system from capturing numerical information to storing an entire fingerprint image. "It's a software option," Diaz said. "It's changing just one command." Diaz said few, if any, companies store the fingerprint images due to privacy concerns.I understand that... and they can lift prints from our rooms if they really wanted to too. Granted it would be easier to collect them with the scanners, but even if it's an option there's no reason for Disney to "turn it on". They'd be buying themselves a bunch of headaches, both in terms of IT systems (added storage, added bandwidth consumption, slower response time, etc.), customer headaches (dealing with additional false ticket rejections), and legal (nefarious collection of personal information is a legal no-no in most cases). A larger question would be "Why would they need/want to collect your prints, and what on Earth would they do with them once they got them???" The "check digit" system they have is sufficient to stop ticket sharing, so what would be the possible benefit for taking it a lot further?

I'm not worried because I know that them collecting and storing my fingerprint can only be a "problem" for them with no real "up-side".

[thefirebuilds]

Its funny how everyone always knows the job of a professional better than they do.

I am a security professional, contact me via PM if you need references. Don't make sarcastic assumptions. Most of the folks with the observant eyes would make very good security professionals.

[thefirebuilds]

Has strict standards and supervisors watching all the time. Ever work with them? I have...Know why the 2oz rule is in effect? A shoe bomber caused it....And, we are much safer after 9/11. Before that date, the WTC were attacked and it was not followed up and it happened again.

Again..Its not a perfect world, but, Disney does a very good job at keeping the millions that go there safe.

Simple chemistry will teach you how bloody hard it is to create an explosive with fluids. It's near impossible in the context of an airplane without blowing yourself up in the process and not causing the needed damage to the structure or other people.

Powders on the other hand, relatively trivial... though I took a quart of foot powder in my backpack on my last flight. It's stupid.

[thefirebuilds]

Disney security does a much better job of it than you give them credit. As to the bag search, what makes any of you so sure they are not watching that line from somewhere else and including those that do not have a bag. Alot can be told about a person by their body language.

I remove my leatherman multi tool from my bag pouch and slip it into my pocket before going through security so there is no issue, and I always carry a pocket knife. These are unconcealed items. It's relatively easy to carry a small semi automatic pistol completely concealed and obviously they don't care about weapons that are in plain site.

[thefirebuilds]

I thought front gate security in November was much more thorough this trip. One guard engaged each person in conversation which I thought an improvement as well. Now, I have no experience in security work, but I think that might help them narrow down who might need a more thorough search. Someone told me once that because Disney is a private company, security can and does profile when screening. I haven't seen evidence of this firsthand. I guess I am just hopeful that they do security as well as they do fun at WDW.

retail vendors are taught to make eye contact and speak with each customer as they walk in. That's simply good policy - people don't attempt something when they think they may not get away with it. A good social engineer would rather go undetected.

[Hazzard101]

I remove my leatherman multi tool from my bag pouch and slip it into my pocket before going through security so there is no issue, and I always carry a pocket knife. These are unconcealed items. It's relatively easy to carry a small semi automatic pistol completely concealed and obviously they don't care about weapons that are in plain site.

To add to that point, how many hold ups, muggings, or crimes have taken place in The Disney Parks? I see people leaving baby carriages full of stuff un attended and I have yet to hear of someone getting something stolen. I am not saying it does not take place just not that often.

Also there have been no attacks with weapons in the parks that I have ever heard of. It is obviously not a huge issue. There is an old saying "locks are to keep honest people honest" If someone wants to do something, they will find a way around any security you put up. So it is important for everyone to be on the watch for things that are out of the ordinary.

[thefirebuilds]

To add to that point, how many hold ups, muggings, or crimes have taken place in The Disney Parks? I see people leaving baby carriages full of stuff un attended and I have yet to hear of someone getting something stolen. I am not saying it does not take place just not that often.

Also there have been no attacks with weapons in the parks that I have ever heard of. It is obviously not a huge issue. There is an old saying "locks are to keep honest people honest" If someone wants to do something, they will find a way around any security you put up. So it is important for everyone to be on the watch for things that are out of the ordinary.

I don't believe that stuff doesn't happen, but despite my pessimistic postings I believe a lot of the minor stuff that has happened was "covered up" or more politely "mitigated" by Disney corporation and their relationship with the media and local constable. I remember reading a few years back that the acts of assault in the parking lots at Downtown Disney were actually pretty well known by the locals, despite it not being written up in the paper. That's when we started seeing the Jurrassic Park style cherry pickers that the security officers sat in. Obviously that's a visual deterrent, one would be daft to think they don't have a vested interest in paying attention to that sort of thing. You can only conceal so much.

That said, the bag check is nonsensical, except I know they are looking for glass material (Insurance requirements as well as state health and welfare guidelines) as well as alchol. To the latter point, however, I bring a liter of water to the park and no one has ever given it even a sniff test, nor do they inspect all of the openings on my bag. Florida state allows for concealed carry and WDW does not make any public written or stated declaration that it is not OK, which they must do on private property.

-- I will get more political if I continue, so I won't. I truly belive the bag checks are there to create an illusion to guests, but that doesn't mean I don't believe there are other more invisible tasks at work.

I was surprised this last trip to see a dope dog and uniformed officer on site, it's kind of unnerving for someone who may not expect it.

Do any of you remember years ago when the backlot tour went through an FBI currency fraud detection facility or am I out of my mind completely?

[Hazzard101]

I don't believe that stuff doesn't happen, but despite my pessimistic postings I believe a lot of the minor stuff that has happened was "covered up" or more politely "mitigated" by Disney corporation and their relationship with the media and local constable. I remember reading a few years back that the acts of assault in the parking lots at Downtown Disney were actually pretty well known by the locals, despite it not being written up in the paper. That's when we started seeing the Jurrassic Park style cherry pickers that the security officers sat in. Obviously that's a visual deterrent, one would be daft to think they don't have a vested interest in paying attention to that sort of thing. You can only conceal so much.

That said, the bag check is nonsensical, except I know they are looking for glass material (Insurance requirements as well as state health and welfare guidelines) as well as alchol. To the latter point, however, I bring a liter of water to the park and no one has ever given it even a sniff test, nor do they inspect all of the openings on my bag. Florida state allows for concealed carry and WDW does not make any public written or stated declaration that it is not OK, which they must do on private property.

-- I will get more political if I continue, so I won't. I truly belive the bag checks are there to create an illusion to guests, but that doesn't mean I don't believe there are other more invisible tasks at work.

I was surprised this last trip to see a dope dog and uniformed officer on site, it's kind of unnerving for someone who may not expect it.

Do any of you remember years ago when the backlot tour went through an FBI currency fraud detection facility or am I out of my mind completely?

I was specifically talking about the parks. Down town Disney is a whole different story. This is a public venue that has no security check points this is the perfect place for trouble.

I was referring to the parks. I do believe there is a policy about firearms in the PARKS but only the parks. I bring mine when I travel and I have a permit but they get locked in the safe while I am there.

I am also in security and the bag check helps to eliminate a portion of contraband and makes someone who is thinking about doing something stupid think twice about it. When I search a bag I can use techniques to know what is in a pocket without opening it. All I am saying is it is a good PR safety measure that makes people feel a bit more safe, but it also works to find things that are obvious and could be the one factor that catches something that may have made it in without it.

[DVCPAT]

I understand that... and they can lift prints from our rooms if they really wanted to too. Granted it would be easier to collect them with the scanners, but even if it's an option there's no reason for Disney to "turn it on". They'd be buying themselves a bunch of headaches, both in terms of IT systems (added storage, added bandwidth consumption, slower response time, etc.), customer headaches (dealing with additional false ticket rejections), and legal (nefarious collection of personal information is a legal no-no in most cases). A larger question would be "Why would they need/want to collect your prints, and what on Earth would they do with them once they got them???" The "check digit" system they have is sufficient to stop ticket sharing, so what would be the possible benefit for taking it a lot further?

I'm not worried because I know that them collecting and storing my fingerprint can only be a "problem" for them with no real "up-side".


Disney is very secretive about security measures. I could think of a couple benefits in storing data for the ticket life, plus 30 days. Here in Maryland, anyone can get a drivers license. Lets say someone entered WDW with a fake ID. They purchase park tickets and commit a crime on site…..they escape and disappear in with the masses. Authorities are called and its determined the ID was bogus. Disney gets legal approval and constructs the finger print from the stored data. Within a short period of time, they have the bad guys real ID.

Another scenario could be a known bad guy was planning a terrorist attack at WDW. Our government passes the info along to Disney security. Disney security gets approval to flag this guy using video facial recognition and finger print scanning. The guy enters a park and the fingerprint scan notifies security.

Can you imagine what damage could be done with so many people in close proximity? One incident could cost the company hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue. Disney is putting on a Super Bowl every day. They have to be prudent.

[disneynutz]

I think that some of these posts are off base a bit.

Disney's number one security roll is to protect corporate assets, that includes it's public image.

Secondary is protecting it's Guests.

Disney doesn't cooperate well with outside agency's be it the Sheriff or others. That's why they have their own 911 operators. Disney knows that their information is public record and Disney doesn't want a record.

When a accident occurs on Disney property, Cast Members are instructed to clear the Guests from the area to that they can't take photos and leak them outside of Disney.

I doubt if Disney would ever capture fingerprints and share them with outside agency's.

:) Bill

[Geoff_M]

Disney is very secretive about security measures.Show me a company that isn't secretive about their security measures unless compelled to do otherwise. It's that way for a reason... you don't show your playbook to the opposition.

I could think of a couple benefits in storing data for the ticket life, plus 30 days. Here in Maryland, anyone can get a drivers license. Lets say someone entered WDW with a fake ID. They purchase park tickets and commit a crime on site…..they escape and disappear in with the masses. Authorities are called and its determined the ID was bogus. Disney gets legal approval and constructs the finger print from the stored data. Within a short period of time, they have the bad guys real ID.Pause for a second and think about the risk/reward equation for this scenario. Disney isn't going to commit a likely criminal offense and risk large civil lawsuit payouts in order to prevent petty crimes in their theme parks.

Another scenario could be a known bad guy was planning a terrorist attack at WDW. Our government passes the info along to Disney security. Disney security gets approval to flag this guy using video facial recognition and finger print scanning. The guy enters a park and the fingerprint scan notifies security.OK, so where does Disney get these terrorist fingerprints from? Also note that it's not usually the known terrorist ring leaders that do the dirty work in such attacks, instead they normally recruit "nobodies" with visions of virgins dancing in their heads.

[thefirebuilds]

The company I work for is SOX compliant which requires us to publish our security measures and shortcomings every year to federal auditors and our customers. So, I disagree with that, but until something happens that requires legislative oversight an amusement park really doesn't have to... though I bet the state regulators and insurance policy holder has it pretty well documented - not so secret.

[Geoff_M]

So, I disagree with that,...There. Fixed it! ;)

[cpdwiz]

I have to think it is time to let this one pass. I am thinking you have no real understanding about security. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to my educated understanding of security and procedures. If you want to believe that Disney is an unsecured place that has no control over who gets in and what they bring that's fine. As for me I know better.

BTW depending on when you enter the park the finger print scan is turned off during busy times. The scan is not really a security measure but a measure to keep people from using a ticket that isn't theirs. They turn it off for speed as well. This I know for a fact.

And I agree...those that know, as we do, know things are done well. Those that do not, who know our jobs better than us can assume things are not good. Thats fine. :thumbsup2

[cpdwiz]

Hazzard, I don't claim to be a security expert, BUT..
My point is if the Disney security bag check is so great, than why doesn't the TSA do a cursory glance in your bag and call it complete?

I think the bag check is a farce, but that doesn't mean I "believe that Disney is an unsecured place that has no control over who gets in and what they bring".

I never said Disney security does a poor job overall.
I did say the bag check is a joke, and one year the finger scan didn't seem to work properly. I stand by those statements.

There are other weak areas that I will not mention, most of which are a matter of policy, not implementation.

MG

Because there is no followup to TSA. Once you are through, thats it. How do you know bag check is not DESIGNED to look like a joke? If its a joke, please, document how many weapons related incidents have happened INSIDE a Disney park in the past 10 years. As a pilot, I am sure you are trained in security and measures to take inside a locked cockpit. However, ah, well, forget it. Disney is safe.

[cpdwiz]

So, if I read your statement correctly, you are saying they can do whatever they want to guest so long as they state it is in the name of safety and security?? That gives them free rein to be as overzealous and irrational as possible and if that is the case, then let them do whatever they want and don't worry about procedures and training. Just turn them loose. Your OK with it as long as they tell you it for your own safety??..smjj

What I am saying, is MAYBE there was a reason that security officer approached you. MAYBE there was something YOU did not know about. Maybe a threat? Tell me, how many times have you been to the world, and how many other incidents have happened?

And, I am pretty ok with just about anything that keeps us safe. I am cleared to work with TSA carrying a weapon, and board a plane with a weapon while working. HOWEVER, when I flew with Southwest, I was pulled aside and went through extra security measures. NO PROBLEM at all for me. I am all for keeping my family safe, and if that means being a little inconveinenced by a security guard, so be it. There are boundaries, and, IMO, he did not cross one here.

[cpdwiz]

As to the OP's comments about the security guard's stated prohibition, photographers (pro and amateur) have been putting up with this sort of hassle from police and private "Barney Fifes" ever since 9/11. In almost every case, the official has been 100% wrong about the supposed prohibitions that they state. .

LOL. And sad. :rolleyes:

[cpdwiz]

Yes... But... We're not talking about someone acting suspicious while flying to Israel.

We're talking about a guest taking a picture AT WALT DISNEY WORLD! I don't understand how that is out of the ordinary in any way, shape, or fashion.

MG

Seriously, do you think a bad person is gonna have a sign on saying IM SOMEONE TO WATCH? Terrorists are using CHILDREN, WOMAN and handicapped people to carry out attacks!

[cpdwiz]

Simple chemistry will teach you how bloody hard it is to create an explosive with fluids. It's near impossible in the context of an airplane without blowing yourself up in the process and not causing the needed damage to the structure or other people.

Powders on the other hand, relatively trivial... though I took a quart of foot powder in my backpack on my last flight. It's stupid.



Hard? Mixing 2 chemicals together in a soda bottle and waiting 10 minutes is hard? Hmmmm....if Reid would have lit his shoe, it would have been catastrophic.

[cpdwiz]

Disney doesn't cooperate well with outside agency's be it the Sheriff or others. That's why they have their own 911 operators.l


Disney has their own 911 system because the were the first in the US to design it. States followed after them. Also, Disney is its own entity in FL.

[Maistre Gracey]

Because there is no followup to TSA. Once you are through, thats it. How do you know bag check is not DESIGNED to look like a joke? If its a joke, please, document how many weapons related incidents have happened INSIDE a Disney park in the past 10 years. As a pilot, I am sure you are trained in security and measures to take inside a locked cockpit. However, ah, well, forget it. Disney is safe.
There is follow up at airports..

I never said Disney wasn't safe, just that the bag check is all for show. I'm glad it gives you a good feeling-- That's what it is designed to do.
Like I said earlier, the "word on the street" that Disney has a bag check may stop someone the first time, until they see that it's not a true inspection.

I don't know how many weapons were brought into WDW. I'm sure some people carry for legitimate reasons, and obviously never use them. People do carry weapons who never cause an incident. It's really impossible to say how many made it thru the turnstiles. They aren't stupid enough to have them on top of the stuff in their nap sack. All it really takes is to put it in the zippered pouch on the side... Or in their coat pocket and pass the rigid inspection all together.

MG

[thefirebuilds]

Hard? Mixing 2 chemicals together in a soda bottle and waiting 10 minutes is hard? Hmmmm....if Reid would have lit his shoe, it would have been catastrophic.

I dont want to get into the chemistry for fear someone might learn something they didn't know but what he was working at was a peroxide bomb. The peroxide component has to be boiled off and at that state it becomes extremely unpredictable and volatile. It's very unlikely outside of a lab setting he would have ever got to the point where he could mix the next chemical in, he'd have blown his hands off in the lavatory.

Reid is a non sequitor, that knucklehead that just got nailed for buying 60 cases of acetone was working on this peroxide bomb - and that's the true reason you can't bring larger volumes of fluid on an airplane. It came out after Reid but it's utter nonsense.

[disneynutz]

Disney has their own 911 system because the were the first in the US to design it. States followed after them. Also, Disney is its own entity in FL.

Never heard the one about Disney and 911. I do know that AT&T announced the 911 plan in 1968.

Disney created their own entity, (Reedy Creek), because they can have more control. I understand their reasoning and like I stated, they take great lengths to protect their image. You won't see shoplifters being arrested in public very often. Disney takes them backstage and then calls the Sheriff. Recently they have decided to pay Orange County Sheriff's to increase their visible presence at DTD to deter holiday crime.

:) Bill

[manning]

I just have to share a weird experience that we had yesterday at Kidani.

We had just checked out and getting ready to move to BLT. I wanted to get a few photos of the Kidani and Jambo sign, front of building and pool area. I was talking a picture of Jambo with a ME bus out front and I noticed a Disney Security Guard watching me. We then went over to Kidani and I took a picture of the front of the main Kidani building. Next we went to check out the Kidani pool, and I took a few pictures.

A Security Guard comes up to me and asks why am I taking pictures? I didn't know what to say, It's Disney, I always take pictures at Disney. He goes on to tell me that he has been following us and watching me take pictures and we aren't allowed to take pictures of buildings.



I was talking a picture of the Kidani pool water feature
:) Bill



How do you talk a picture??:laughing:

[Sammie]

Bill, actually DVC has been reading your posts on here lately and have you on their surveillance list. ;)

[disneynutz]

How do you talk a picture??:laughing:

It's a new feature on the iPhone 6.0. You tell it what you want a picture of and it goes and takes it for you. :rotfl2:

:) Bill

[Geoff_M]

Reid is a non sequitor,...I loved the guy I heard say "Every time I take my shoes off at the airport I think 'I'm glad Richard Reid wasn't known as The Underwear Bomber'!"

[AKLFan3]

I loved the guy I heard say "Every time I take my shoes off at the airport I think 'I'm glad Richard Reid wasn't known as The Underwear Bomber'!"

:rotfl2:

I wonder if security lines will be a little longer next week with the increased number of people for the holiday and perhaps even more thorough bag checks.

[DisneySJB]

We went to Pittsburgh for a weekend getaway last summer. I love to take pictures of architecture. I guess, I was taking pictures of the wrong building because I was also stopped by a security guard. He told me something similary, since 9/11 they are cautious when someone is taking pictures of the building. Especially if you take it looking up at the sky, which is a shot I love with tall buildings. So sad, but I understand the necessity.

[thefirebuilds]

im trying to not to be a sarcastic ***, but all that stuff (pictures) are available on google maps, via satelite. Why would a "terrorist" risk exposure when the stuff is free and publically available. It's armband nonsense.

[DVCPAT]

Show me a company that isn't secretive about their security measures unless compelled to do otherwise. It's that way for a reason... you don't show your playbook to the opposition.

I’m saying that’s a good thing. Our government pretty much reveals everthing they know. The most recent news reports revealed how the terrorist communicated by saving messages it the draft folder. They would log onto the account, read the messages and delete them.



Pause for a second and think about the risk/reward equation for this scenario. Disney isn't going to commit a likely criminal offense and risk large civil lawsuit payouts in order to prevent petty crimes in their theme parks. .

The legal system hasn’t caught up with technology. Disney has plenty of lawyers on the payroll so I’m sure they wont break the law.

OK, so where does Disney get these terrorist fingerprints from? Also note that it's not usually the known terrorist ring leaders that do the dirty work in such attacks, instead they normally recruit "nobodies" with visions of virgins dancing in their heads.


Finger print records are common around the world.

Why would Disney spend millions of dollars upgrading to a system that processes finger prints? Maybe the NSA consults Disney, the largest user of biometrics because they are considering opening up a theme park? They could have used much less expensive technology.

[Geoff_M]

The legal system hasn’t caught up with technology. Disney has plenty of lawyers on the payroll so I’m sure they wont break the law.Oh, but there have already been lots of legal smackdowns about issues of a high-tech nature regarding privacy. Even something as "benign" as recording information about a customer visiting your website without consent can get you in legal hot water. Now expand that to something extremely sensitive like your fingerprints. I agree that Disney's legal team will give the park management good advice... which is why I'm certain that the fingerprint feature on the park scanners will firmly remain in the "off" position.




Finger print records are common around the world.

Why would Disney spend millions of dollars upgrading to a system that processes finger prints?Here I'll invoke Occam's Razor... A simpler explanation is that the older "post" system was only used for APs and other special passes. They were problematic to use and often created delays at the turnstiles. Those headaches were then greatly increased when they moved to MYW tickets that required everyone except kids to authenticate themselves. They moved to the new system because they felt it would be a lot more accurate and help keep the front gate lines moving.

I also speculate that our government's interest in Disney security execs has a lot more to do with the fact that they've overseen the security of a place that deals with more daily visitors on average than any government run facility.

If you wish to move beyond that and believe that the real (or even secondary) reason for the switch is that Disney's security "skunkworks" has secretly (and likely illegally) tapped into some secret global fingerprint database that includes poor jihadist foot soldiers in Yemen, persons in Palestinian refugee camps, and people in deepest lawless Pakistani tribal lands... then don't let me stop you. Even if you want to restrict that list down to domestic registered sex offenders, I think that laws wouldn't allow their fingerprints out into the public domain.

[bobbiwoz]

We just returned and I noticed much more security at WDW than ever before. When we entered the MK on Tuesday there was a German Shepherd dog by the area where they check bags. Earlier in the stay, I was on our balcony at VWL, woods/lake view and a security guard pulled up to a worker's truck. He was sitting in the car, not getting out, and she asked to see ID. After a few minutes of discussing the situation, she left and within a few minutes he got out of the car and got to work.

We saw many many Disney security cars on the roads during this 5 night trip.

Bobbi:goodvibes

[Simba's Mom]

We just returned and I noticed much more security at WDW than ever before. When we entered the MK on Tuesday there was a German Shepherd dog by the area where they check bags. Earlier in the stay, I was on our balcony at VWL, woods/lake view and a security guard pulled up to a worker's truck. He was sitting in the car, not getting out, and she asked to see ID. After a few minutes of discussing the situation, she left and within a few minutes he got out of the car and got to work.

We saw many many Disney security cars on the roads during this 5 night trip.

Bobbi:goodvibes


I noticed that also on my trip in October. Before that trip I didn't even know that WDW had "sniffing" dogs (for drugs, bombs, whatever) but on this trip I saw three at separate times. One time, I saw Disney security with a dog in Epcot walking around during the F&W festival. I don't know what the dog was looking for, but whatever it was, I suppose it was good that he didn't find it.

[cpdwiz]

im trying to not to be a sarcastic ***, but all that stuff (pictures) are available on google maps, via satelite. Why would a "terrorist" risk exposure when the stuff is free and publically available. It's armband nonsense.

This thread needs to be locked...You compare a Disney security officer doing a job to Nazi SS Germany? Amazing.

[cpdwiz]

We just returned and I noticed much more security at WDW than ever before. When we entered the MK on Tuesday there was a German Shepherd dog by the area where they check bags. Earlier in the stay, I was on our balcony at VWL, woods/lake view and a security guard pulled up to a worker's truck. He was sitting in the car, not getting out, and she asked to see ID. After a few minutes of discussing the situation, she left and within a few minutes he got out of the car and got to work.

We saw many many Disney security cars on the roads during this 5 night trip.

Bobbi:goodvibes

Makes a little more sense that a guard would question a photographer since there were dogs around. A hightened sense? An alert?

[thefirebuilds]

This thread needs to be locked...You compare a Disney security officer doing a job to Nazi SS Germany? Amazing.

sorry, not quite, armband as in hall monitor. It's an SCCA reference, I guess it doesn't translate here.

btw the nazis and the stasi were just "doing a job" too.

In 20th century Holland one had to provide their religion and heritage before receiving social insurance checks. Totally innocuous information (like the fingerprint capturing device) until the German's invaded in the 40s. As a consequence all the Jewish folks in Holland were easily identified by a simple database that had captured their address and nationality in clear language. The Dutch Jews suffered greater losses than even the Germans.

[Chuck S]

This thread has gone way off the topic of DVC resort security, it is now closed.