The Honeymoon is over!

[Jhalkias]

Last month I posted a note about how easy it was to make my first reservation, and how helpful MS was. Well, the Honeymoon is over!
Today I tried to plan a cruise for Feb 28th 2002. As many of you may have read on the DCL Discussion, for cruises booked after 4/1, teenagers will pay adult fare. I wanted to see about using points to cruise, and my family includes a 14 year old. First of all - no points chart available yet for 2002. I was told that I could book the cruise beginning tommorrow, but was not locked into any specific point schedule until DVC and DCL settled on a point schedule for 2002! So . . . I said, you mean I could make a Res, and later find out I do not have enough points? She replied yes, and I would be charged cash for any shortfall. I then asked about the new teenager pricing - she put me on hold while calling DCL, and came back with, "yes, they are changing the structure with teenagers, but since we do not have a contract for 2002, we cannot guarantee you any particular point structure - however, we can guarantee that points needed for a cruise will go up for 2002".
If you can make a reservation, you should be able to have certainty with how much it is costing you - and since disney displays DCL so prominently when advertising DVC, this is BS! I plan on e-mailing MS with my unhappiness - just wondering if anyone else has run into this boondogle.
In the meantime, I am trying to make a cash Res to beat that 4/1/01 deadline for teens.
<IMG SRC="/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif" alt="confused">

1996 Contemporary & Poly
1998 Yacht Club & WLodge
1999 Contemporary
2000 Dixie & Bch Club
2000 Wonder 3 Night
2001(May) Villas W Lodge
2001(May)Wonder 4 night

[ripleysmom]

Jhalkias, you know you can pay cash just for the teen. You do do not have use points for everyone.

Kimberly-Lucas and Ripley's Mom

http://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/family/dvcjoke.gif http://wdwinfo.com/sites/family/dvcis.gif

[poopie]

When I booked our jan/feb 2002 trip

AKL
DCL
BWV

I was told the same thing the points for 2002 for DCL/AKL were not set yet but I could book and they would let me know how many point it would be when they knew.
If you look at the previous years you can get a pretty good idea.
They said if I was short of points I could just borrow from the next year.
I have no problem with this.

We go in jan/feb every year and had the same deal with cash ressies. you could make them a year out but they usually didn't have the next years rates till spring or early summer.

no big deal either.

Rachael

All-Star Movies 1/99
Dixie Landings 2/00
DVC Members BW 12/00
Contemporary 01/01
DL/DCA 6/01
BWV,Wonder,AKL 1/02-2/02

[rsinj]

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[Jhalkias]

Let me elaborate on what my concerns were - and as you can all see, I am now sad instead of mad, although I am still overall pleased with DVC and not ready to fly the coop!
1. I know I can pay cash for my teen - but what will I pay? The adult rate when the points are set, or the current teen rate? Currently teens cruise 3 days for 50 points during this time, and adults for 129 points - that is quite a difference. I should have asked about paying cash NOW.
2. As far as making cash ressies, I got a quote from Dreams Unlimited for this same cruise for my whole family after rebates of $2250. The point total for this cruise on today's points would be 324. Since many members rent points at a low of about $10 per point, this seems to be a bad deal even before the supposed increase. I beg then to differ that you cannot make a cash ressie with any certainty - yes indeed you can. I do not feel that it is pretty good of DVC to accept the reservation 11 months out - that was the deal. Next time you are at WDW please see how prominently the Disney cruise ship is displayed in advertising for DVC! In fact, I still think it is unconscionable that DVC would not do their homework and should have a structure in place if you can make a reservation - it should not be just nice, but expected. After all, we are not talking about a deal with some other company not owned by Disney!
3. When we bought into DVC this past fall, our "guide" showed us the difference in the cost of our current land/sea package vs. doing the cruise on points - a selling point for us at the time. I also assumed that point requirements in the "Disney Collection" remained constant and did not increase over time - if I am wrong on this I should have been more astute. This further leads me to believe what some other folks have said about the misinformation from some Disney sales staff (I was also told no need to buy at an on-site resort, buy at Vero)

My bottom line is that if you can make a Ressie under the agreement, do your job DVC, and tell me how many points it will cost me so that I can decide whether to pay cash, points, or some combination. I only want to make the best, most economical decision for my family - which is why I bought into DVC in the first place. Sorry guys, but I just can't accept that this is an unreasonable demand on my part! :D

1996 Contemporary & Poly
1998 Yacht Club & WLodge
1999 Contemporary
2000 Dixie & Bch Club
2000 Wonder 3 Night
2001(May) Villas W Lodge
2001(May)Wonder 4 night

[PamOKW]

I understand your frustration and what you are saying about it all being one company. But, the WDW non-DVC resorts set their points schedules every year so when we book into the next year we are booking those without really knowing either. In fact, when you make a WDW reservation for cash for 2002 you don't know exactly what you will be paying until the rates are set toward the end of 2001.

How about the cruises? As a regular non-DVC guest, if I book GF today for May 2002 I won't know my exact room charge until later this year. If I book a WDW cruise for May 2002 today is my price locked in or subject to change?

[tiggersnj]

We are planning a cruise (not with Disney) for April, 2002. When I spoke to our travel agent she informed me that I could reserve the date, the type of room and the level I wanted to be on but she could not give me the cost of the cruise since they did not have 2002 fares until the middle or end of this April. I agree it doesn't sound right that you can book it with a travel agency and not through DVC, why not try calling again and see what they have to say. Good Luck

[rsinj]

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[Jhalkias]

To further my point, if DCL can give you a price on the website (or through your TA for that matter) - in my case DU - why in the WDW can't DVC give you a point amount for 2002? When booking for cash (before becoming a DVC member, I always made my plans about 11-12 months out, and had no problems getting a definite price.
In fact, with DCL, you get an early booking savings when booking early, saving more $$$. But, I did take note of an interesting point, on the DVC web site, there are no point schedules for 2002 for any of the Disney resorts other than DVC properties. Interesting . . . since for the last several months you could make reservations there too!

1996 Contemporary & Poly
1998 Yacht Club & WLodge
1999 Contemporary
2000 Dixie & Bch Club
2000 Wonder 3 Night
2001(May) Villas W Lodge
2001(May)Wonder 4 night

[PamOKW]

Jhalkias, that's what I'm trying to tell you. I think you said you could make a reservation for the cruise but would not know for sure how many points it would require. The same is true for every non-DVC reservation beyond 12/31/01. The contracts are re-negotiated every year.

[WebmasterDoc]

You can make a cash reservation at a WDW resort now (just as you can make a points based cruise) but the cost will not be confirmed until the new rates are released for 2002.
Until DVC has finalized their negotiations for the cruise, they are apparently NOT willing to commit to a point cost (and why should they?). You may still make the reservation, but under the understanding that the points may change. The same understanding is used when making a cash reservation at a WDW resort right now.

When DVC releases the point values for these programs, they will honor the point costs. Until that time, any reservations are made with the understanding that the point costs could change. If that is not to our liking, we can reserve with cash or not reserve at all. Keep in mind that the point costs could even go down. Good Luck with your decision.

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

[Dean]

This is standard proceedure for the Cruise and similar options. You cannot make a binding points reservation until they have a contract and can say how many points it will cost. If you want to argue that they should have the schedule earlier, I would have to disagree when it comes to Cruises. I suspect most cruises don't have their pricing for next spring and summer yet or have just published it. Remember the cruise must set the prices, THEN negotiated with DVC after that.

Dean

[nickglover]

your topic reminded me of something funny - when DW and I were married, we went on a cruise - when we returned home, the first thing we noticed was that our washing machine was broken - DW summed it up nicely: "well, I guess the honeymoon is over!"

[Jhalkias]

Dear Doc, Pam, et. al.

Uncle! I give up! apparently I am alone of the opinion that if I can make a Res, I should know the cost - in points or dollars! If I couldn't make the DCL Res for dollars for the entire year of 2002 as I sit here today and for the last several months, I would be more understanding.I did send a note to MS about my concern - when I hear back I'll let you know the company line.

1996 Contemporary & Poly
1998 Yacht Club & WLodge
1999 Contemporary
2000 Dixie & Bch Club
2000 Wonder 3 Night
2001(May) Villas W Lodge
2001(May)Wonder 4 night

[Dean]

You should not make a binding reservation without knowing the cost. If they want to let you do a tenative reservation without commiting your points, that's a different ballgame. The price you've been quoted for cash is the better deal at this point and unless the points go down, that would be my choice in your current situation. Good luck.

Dean

[Jhalkias]

I called MS today to ask - can I make a Res today for this 2002 cruise, but ask to pay cash for my teen son and infant daughter. If I do so, can I pay the teen price in effect now, and let the points fall where they may for my DW and I?

Answer - No I can't. Even if I book today (before that 4/1 deadline for teen increase if you pay the whole thing in cash)I will be charged the post April 1 fee for my son. I immediately called DU and booked my cruise for cash, locking in the current cheaper price with no hassle.

Just another thought as my mind meanders, when we exchange our points for something outside of DVC properties, this frees up our DVC "time" at our resorts, which DVC can then sell. Since I doubt that they sell at the same cost as last year (seeing how resort costs have spiraled every year), why do you suppose our points needed outside DVC go up? Is there some disparity in the rate of inflation here? Will it someday cost 1000 points per person for a 3 day cruise, and if so, how will DVC sell the alternate vacation aspect of the club? Just something to think about.

Still no e-mail answer from DVC though. Probably waiting until after 4/1! Peace. :cool:

1996 Contemporary & Poly
1998 Yacht Club & WLodge
1999 Contemporary
2000 Dixie & Bch Club
2000 Wonder 3 Night
2001(May) Villas W Lodge
2001(May)Wonder 4 night

[Dean]

While I have always felt that DVC could do better by us with non DVC exchanges, maybe it'll help to know how they do things. The Disney Collection is a better example so I'll use it.

Basically DVC agrees to a discounted rack rate of say 10% at the beginning of each use period (usually a year). When we make a reservation at say GF, DVC then transfers that cash amount to GF. To cover that cost, DVC then rents that time. Although the numbers may be different now than they were a couple of years ago (due to sell out and other factors), traditionally only about 75% of the rooms available in this way were rented and many for a discount. At least that is the explanation given me a few years ago by Matt Gibbs.

My response was that DVC needed to negotiate a better deal. I'm sure the numbers have narrowed a little with the sell out of OKW and BW but the principal still holds. For that reason I expected the points totals to decrease modestly over the last couple of years. The only thing that has improved significantly is the Cruise to Alaska, a decrease of 77 points over the last couple of years (302 to 225).

Dean

[Jhalkias]

Here's the official response from MS as promised. Not great customer service in my opinion:

"Thank you for your e-mail.
At this time we do not have the point chart available for the Disney Cruise
Line for 2002. You are able to make reservations for 2002, however you are
subject to the new points and all the rules associated with this program.
At this time we are still working on the contract with Disney Cruise Line
and the points for 2002 have not yet been determined. As soon as we have
the points for the Disney Cruise Line, we will place this information on our
Web Site. Although we cannot provide a more favorable reply, we do
appreciate your writing to share your concerns with us."

I sent them a disappointed e-mail, but I am tired of fighting the system.

Peace.

1996 Contemporary & Poly
1998 Yacht Club & WLodge
1999 Contemporary
2000 Dixie & Bch Club
2000 Wonder 3 Night
2001(May) Villas W Lodge
2001(May)Wonder 4 night

[Dean]

I'm sorry you are disappointed but I can tell you for certain that the answer they gave you would have been the one I would have given if I were in their shoes. Maybe you would have preferred to not be able to book until they actually have the points schedule. I think your expectations are off on this one. Hopefully the rest of your interactions will be more fulfilling.

Dean

[rsinj]

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[Doctor P]

I come down firmly on....both sides on this one! :) I do think that there is an issue of understanding the system that is in play here, and I do think that some of the expectations are a bit unreasonable.

However, that said, I think it is also reasonable given the amount of advertising and prominent featuring of the concierege collection and Disney collection properties that some consideration should be given to the fact that there is an eleven month window on these reservations and one should be in a better position to make their decision than the current system seems to allow. I am not asking that they have the point schedule available to me, but I think it would be reasonable to either put a maximum percent increase on the points OR allow the member to pay the difference in cash should the points go up so much that the member no longer can have enough points to pay for the trip. Given that many members need to plan a three year window of banking and borrowing to make the DCL trip work, it seems like there should be some way to come to a meeting of the minds (I do realize that there is always a possibility that the contract will not be renewed which puts another wrench into the story).

http://www.dreamsunlimitedtravel.com/images/official_logos/keywest.gif

[Jhalkias]

Dear All-

I am not trying to invent my own rules, or make my own guidelines. I am sure that if you read my previous posts I alluded to the fact that I am sure that all has been done by the guidelines.

So . . . cut a little slack. I am a fairly new DVC member. I would happily show you all the handwritten point comparison my "guide" did for me on the cruise I was going on vs. the DVC cost back in November.

All I am saying is that Disney misleads people in this respect. If all they were selling was an interest in the DVC resorts with no other options, I would be fine. The problem I have is how they sell and feature other aspects of the club so prominently, and then frustrate you when you try to make a reservation.

I had no idea that I was assaulting a Holy Grail by offering up such opinions. All of you who believe that Disney does no wrong in this respect were either not mislead, or did much better research than me to begin with. Good for you either way.

Overall, I am still satisfied with DVC, and am very happy to be an owner. So, relax, take off your gloves, quit piling on. This cruise thing just got my dander up - and I cannot consider it the same as a benefit in the Concierge collection when the "Mouse" controls it all in the end.

Peace ;)

1996 Contemporary & Poly
1998 Yacht Club & WLodge
1999 Contemporary
2000 Dixie & Bch Club
2000 Wonder 3 Night
2001(May) Villas W Lodge
2001(May)Wonder 4 night