Can you believe this

[Chris and Pooh]

We have just come back from a brilliant holiday with my family to celebrate my 50th at Disney. The only thing which marred it was our meal at Les Chefs de France which was unsatisfactory in part, but it was the manager's comments that we could not believe, in a nut shell, he would never eat there and the food was ****{slang word for faeces as I cannot type the word due to posting rules} (full report on tripadvisor - http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...o_Florida.html (http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g34515-d456860-r48116684-Les_Chefs_de_France-Orlando_Florida.html) headed "Bad experience") :sad2:

[vettegirl]

Wow that is surprising. Our loved our dinner there it was excellent. I guess it depends on your tastes and what you order.

[bama106]

WOW! Very surprising what the manager said to you. We have only been once, but it was really a great experience when we ate there and the food was really good.

[RMulieri]

wow! Sorry it was not to your liking.We have always enjoyed our meals there and found Christophe to be quite nice

[jb01]

Well if the manager thinks their food is ***#? that about says it all. I do not think we will be eating there again.

[Doctor P]

I read the review. All the manager said according to the review was that Americans would allow or appreciate real/authentic French cooking. As a result, he found the food terrible and wouldn't eat there (since it wasn't authentic French food). Not as damning as it might have seemed at first.

[vicki_c]

I read the review. All the manager said according to the review was that Americans would allow or appreciate real/authentic French cooking. As a result, he found the food terrible and wouldn't eat there (since it wasn't authentic French food). Not as damning as it might have seemed at first.

I would have to agree -- although the manager certainly shouldn't have used whatever language was used (totally inappropriate) -- the rest of the review really came off differently to me. I thought it sounded more like a difficult table -- sorry to the OP -- that wasn't happy with much and wanted to be comped more than the manager was willing to do. It wouldn't stop me from returning to CdF -- we had a great meal and service there.

[Doctor P]

I would have to agree -- although the manager certainly shouldn't have used whatever language was used (totally inappropriate) -- the rest of the review really came off differently to me. I thought it sounded more like a difficult table -- sorry to the OP -- that wasn't happy with much and wanted to be comped more than the manager was willing to do. It wouldn't stop me from returning to CdF -- we had a great meal and service there.


I agree wholeheartedly.

[bavaria]

I read the review. All the manager said according to the review was that Americans would allow or appreciate real/authentic French cooking. As a result, he found the food terrible and wouldn't eat there (since it wasn't authentic French food). Not as damning as it might have seemed at first.

Agreed. Knowing the restaurant, the food, the manager, and having spent countless days in my life in France, I agree.

I don't recommend Biergarten either - like the vast majority of dishes at World Showcase the food has been modified to meet the tastes of the local palate. For instance, there is no veal Schnitzel - they serve a chicken dish and call it 'Schnitzel'. Recent changes to the food prep mean that much of the food there is no longer even vaguely 'authentic'. Several CMs over the years have whispered to me in German 'don't bother', and told me how disappointing the food is to them.

Or take the chocolate shop in the German pavilion. Those slabs of fudge, and nut clusters, and rice krispie squares etc have no relation to German sweets, and you won't find things like that in Germany. I personally don't like them and don't buy them, just as the manager in Chefs de France apparently doesn't like the Americanized version of the food.

I know that when I dine in Epcot I am going to be served an Americanized version of food, not the 'authentic' version I would find in that country. If I didn't expect that I may find myself disappointed.

[Chris and Pooh]

I would have to agree -- although the manager certainly shouldn't have used whatever language was used (totally inappropriate) -- the rest of the review really came off differently to me. I thought it sounded more like a difficult table -- sorry to the OP -- that wasn't happy with much and wanted to be comped more than the manager was willing to do. It wouldn't stop me from returning to CdF -- we had a great meal and service there.

With respect, we were not difficult we only wanted at least acknowledgement that the food had not been served as expected, which he failed to accept in full. Thatwas when I asked for some form of compensation which was ignored. My main gripe was his attitude and the negativity towards the quality or authenticity of the food.
In contrast I have written to Disney to praise the service and food I had received especially at Le Cellier and Artists Point at the Wilderness Lodge.

If I pay good money I expect good food and service, that is not too much to ask for, and as a closing note we still tipped the waiter well as we did not regard the issue we encountered as his fault

[Chris and Pooh]

Agreed. Knowing the restaurant, the food, the manager, and having spent countless days in my life in France, I agree.

I don't recommend Biergarten either - like the vast majority of dishes at World Showcase the food has been modified to meet the tastes of the local palate. For instance, there is no veal Schnitzel - they serve a chicken dish and call it 'Schnitzel'. Recent changes to the food prep mean that much of the food there is no longer even vaguely 'authentic'. Several CMs over the years have whispered to me in German 'don't bother', and told me how disappointing the food is to them.

Or take the chocolate shop in the German pavilion. Those slabs of fudge, and nut clusters, and rice krispie squares etc have no relation to German sweets, and you won't find things like that in Germany. I personally don't like them and don't buy them, just as the manager in Chefs de France apparently doesn't like the Americanized version of the food.

I know that when I dine in Epcot I am going to be served an Americanized version of food, not the 'authentic' version I would find in that country. If I didn't expect that I may find myself disappointed.

Perhaps Disney should not then state regarding "Les Chefs de France" that "The classic food served at Chefs de France is inspired from the French Brasseries Bocuse. It is properly cooked with authentic tastes and respect for ingredients. The preparations are simple but the result is pack with flavor."

[goofy4tink]

I've eaten at Chefs just once, and won't be back again. It was the only restaurant that was available for the CP show pkg that I wanted. I refused to take it, so had to choose an earlier show in order to avoid eating there again. Our experience was not good...our server refused to get dh ice for his iced tea, we never got addtl bread..they actually brought out three tiny pieces of bread. My beef was warm, not hot. My dh had fish but found it to be very unsatisfactory. Our server never returned to our table to ask how our meal was..didn't really seem to care. Dh tried grabbing her as she walked by, trying to get some of that ice for his iced tea (which truly should have been called tepid tea). It was just not a good meal...not by a long shot. We won't be back.

But, other posters are correct. Epcot WS restaurants are not authentic. They have been 'americanized' for our palates. If they were truly authentic, it wouldn't be nearly as hard to get ADRs at them!!

[bavaria]

Bocuse was our idol when I trained in the kitchen. 'Inspired by' is very different than food created by him. It is the same as when I travel in remote parts of the world and see fast food 'inspired by' Americans. Even McDonalds serves things like wasabi burgers and fried shrimp burgers in Germany, as 'American' food during 'Asian' month.

The reality is that way back when Epcot DID serve more authentic foods, but the American public did not patronize those restaurants because they were not to their taste. When they dumbed down the menus and Americanized the tastes, the restaurants became popular. Ten years ago one could a better meal, and not have to wait for a table.

Now tables are full, and meals are no longer of the same quality or authenticity.

I can assure you that many of the CMs from the host countries are ashamed of what is served as 'authentic'. I know that I am ashamed of the German pavilion and lack of quality.

[bavaria]

Remember too that recent cutbacks and restrictions on servers and chefs means that very often one can no longer have anything served 'off menu'. I have had some excellent meals in past at WDW prepared by chefs who were excited to make something not on the menu. That really no longer happens unless one has made specific arrangements for a food allergy, etc.

Ingredients have become so limited and homogenized in the kitchens, and creativity curtailed, so that there is no longer the option to prepare a more authentic meal to meet individual tastes. No longer would I expect the kitchen to prepare me something and serve it at Chefs de France off menu; no longer would I be able to have a German chef at a mundane WDW restaurant prepare a dish 'just like I would make myself at home'.

The culinary front at WDW has changed so dramtically; it took a giant upswing several years ago and recently plummeted to a very low standard. Many of us no longer go to WDW looking for great dining experiences, or realise that we generally find those more often at the non Disney run establishments.

[Chris and Pooh]

Bocuse was our idol when I trained in the kitchen. 'Inspired by' is very different than food created by him. It is the same as when I travel in remote parts of the world and see fast food 'inspired by' Americans. Even McDonalds serves things like wasabi burgers and fried shrimp burgers in Germany, as 'American' food during 'Asian' month.

The reality is that way back when Epcot DID serve more authentic foods, but the American public did not patronize those restaurants because they were not to their taste. When they dumbed down the menus and Americanized the tastes, the restaurants became popular. Ten years ago one could a better meal, and not have to wait for a table.

Now tables are full, and meals are no longer of the same quality or authenticity.

I can assure you that many of the CMs from the host countries are ashamed of what is served as 'authentic'. I know that I am ashamed of the German pavilion and lack of quality.

This is a real shame, as I think the experience of tasting authentic food from around the world ( the real world not the showcase) whether it is to my taste or not is one of the great reasons why we travel.

Perhaps Disney restaurants could cater for those people who are not keen on expanding their culinary palate, but also produce genuine dishes for the more adventurous

[bavaria]

Unforunately I do think that your expectations are too high from WDW v2009. Perhaps if you had visited about 10 years ago your expectations would have been met. A few years ago it was bicker who told me that if I didn't like it, to try somewhere else.

I did.

Many of us did.

There is far more to see in the world than just WDW, and for those looking for an authentic experience they would be better served to travel outside WDW. Factor in the homogenization of merchandise and there really isn't the same feeling at WS that there was 10 years ago.

It's an embarassment to see what is being sold and what is being served as 'authentic' these days at World Showcase. A local Target often has a wider selection of 'German' chocolate than the Epcot pavilion, with the exception of Reber, which can be found at CostPlus World Market in Lake Mary.

[tony67]

To be honest this does not surprise me at all, but I say it all the time.
It's too bad that they did not address the problem and make you happy before you left, that is unusual IMO.
Especially since I think you were paying OOP.

I am also surprised they would say it to a customer that is still actually having a meal there.
I have had similar discussion with someone in France, Italy (Alfredos) and recently Mexico but always after the meals and on the way out.

He probably felt comfortable because you were European.
I have also found discussing soccer and their home countries with these folks seems to get them to drop their guard.

I had a very somewhat similar discussion in France the last time I ate there a few years back, but on the way out.
I was in Paris when France won the world cup and I talked to the manager about my experience there. I was then able to get him to discuss things about the restaurant he would not otherwise and the decline in the quality of the food.
(BTW, the cheese thing in the US really annoys me. I want real goat cheese, not the stuff they are giving us. I need to go to Canada for a weekend again)
One other thing about France. I recall they had to take things of the menu because of the DDP. I do not recall what the item was (sorry it was 4 years ago), but it was expensive and people ordered it not knowing what it was because it was the most expensive thing. They would then send it back and get something else. This got to be too expensive so they dumbed down the menu a bit.
That has lead us to the current situation. The food is usually OK, but rarely great and the staff is unhappy with the quality of what they are serving IMO.
The escargot is nothing like it was 5 years ago.

At Alredo's I talked about my trips to Rome and Milan and when I saw Italy in the 94 World cup against Spain. We then discussed some of the issues there since the DDP started. They left not too long after that. They were also irate with customers that asked for grated cheese on the fettuccini alfredo. It already has the perfect amount. They were annoyed with "Americans that want grated cheese on their chicken parmesan." They were annoyed with "people who want pepper and salt without tasting things." They had a really bad attitude in general. I liked the place but it is probably good that they are gone.

Very Recently I had a long discussion with someone in Mexico about Chivas USA and Soccer in the US. Eventually I mentioned the poor quality of the food in Mexico and they agreed. Then then told me that the waiters were not happy with it and that was why the service was so bad. He even told me that the restaurant had been reprimanded by Disney 2 months earlier. He would be quite happy to see some Mexican Street food options on the menu, but the Chefs will not make tamales, they are Chefs not street vendors. He also discussed the amounts that they are reimbursed for the DDP and its affect on things.

I gave up complaining to Disney a long time ago.
The DDP is very popular but has been the death of innovation and quality in most of the Disney Dinning locations IMO.

In the end your experience reminds me of an episode of Fawlty Towers (best Comedy Series ever IMO).
Someone tries to complain to Fawlty and he ends up agreeing and complaining back.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Arrad: Excuse me.
Basil Fawlty: Yes?
Mr. Arrad: Look, we've been waiting here for about half an hour now, I mean I gave the waiter our order...
Basil Fawlty: Oh, *him*. He's hopeless, isn't he?
Mr. Arrad: Yes, well I don't wish to complain, but when he does bring something he's got it wrong.
Basil Fawlty: You think I don't know? I mean, you only have to eat here. We have to live with it. I had to pay his fare all the way from Barcelona, but you can't get the staff you see. It's a nightmare.
Mrs. Arrad: You were supposed to be complaining to *him*.

[tony67]

I can assure you that many of the CMs from the host countries are ashamed of what is served as 'authentic'. I know that I am ashamed of the German pavilion and lack of quality.
One that really disappoints me are the pretzels.

They used to make fresh hot buttery pretzels for the German pavilion (4-5 years ago).

Then one night I walked from the front of the park past numerous pretzel carts, dragging my tired family with me, just to get one of these fresh hot pretzels and a beer.

Unfortunately, they had replaced them with the standard Disney Pretzel they serve everywhere. It was extremely disappointing, possibly one of my worst Disney experiences ever.

After we each took a bite and I had to explain that it was not the same Pretzel and then I returned the 3 Pretzels to the cart and the CM apologized saying she was sorry but they had just changed them about a month ago.

She gave me my money back and said we could keep the pretzels. I said no thanks and through them in the trash. She said, "Good Choice".

I did not hear the end of that from the family for a while.

To be fair I did have a difficult time finding fresh hot pretzel in Munich, so maybe the ones they used to make were not authentic, but they were great.

I'd also like to see some better German Beers to be honest.
Paulaner Weissbier or Berliner Weisse would be very nice.
How many Berliner Weisse with woodruff or raspberry could they sell in the hot Florida sun.
It would sell just for the novelty factor alone.

[PoohsFan1]

I would have to agree -- although the manager certainly shouldn't have used whatever language was used (totally inappropriate) -- the rest of the review really came off differently to me. I thought it sounded more like a difficult table -- sorry to the OP -- that wasn't happy with much and wanted to be comped more than the manager was willing to do. It wouldn't stop me from returning to CdF -- we had a great meal and service there.


I agree that the manager should not have used inappropriate language to describe their food, but I do know that the chefs from each of the different countries do Americanize their food because we Americans are "Picky" Eaters so to speak.

[RMulieri]

I agree that the manager should not have used inappropriate language to describe their food, but I do know that the chefs from each of the different countries do Americanize their food because we Americans are "Picky" Eaters so to speak.

Exactly. You want Authentic, then you look outside of a themepark for it...

[si-am]

I would never go to a theme park, not even Epcot, and expect the food to be 100% authentic. The food at Epcot doesn't disappoint me because I just don't expect too much out of it.

I mean, if they were really concerned about providing an authentic experience, they never would have turned Akershus into a princess meal.

[tony67]

I would never go to a theme park, not even Epcot, and expect the food to be 100% authentic. The food at Epcot doesn't disappoint me because I just don't expect too much out of it.

I mean, if they were really concerned about providing an authentic experience, they never would have turned Akershus into a princess meal.

Yeah, I used to really enjoy Akershus. The problem was that most people did not. "It was all pickled fish."

Now you cannot get into the place, I don't even know what kind of food they serve, I have no interest in the Princesses.

I think it's just really disappointing to those of us that have been going to Epcot for years and remember what it was.

[bavaria]

One that really disappoints me are the pretzels.


Aren't they horrible? The somewhat authentic ones are stale; the directive now is not to refresh or replenish what they do not sell, so they are often more than past the freshness.

Awhile back I was standing in line at Sommerfest just to buy a bottle of water. A foursome of older Americans was ordering a sausage on a bun which is served with Sauerkraut. They were arguing endlessly with the CM, demanding that she substitute French Fries. She explained over and over that they don't serve them there, and offered up alternate locations which did serve them.

They finally left after yelling at her, and when I ordered she told me that they deal with that all day long. Frankly, even if they did serve 'Pommes' or 'Frites' the German way is with mayonnaise, and not with ketchup, so I doubt that they would have been happy with that either.

The customer has driven this change. The demand is for 'familiar' foods, and the more authentic ones didn't sell. Blame the visitors, not the vendors, for having to adapt.

[si-am]

Yeah, I used to really enjoy Akershus. The problem was that most people did not. "It was all pickled fish."

Now you cannot get into the place, I don't even know what kind of food they serve, I have no interest in the Princesses.

I think it's just really disappointing to those of us that have been going to Epcot for years and remember what it was.


I agree! Akershus used to be a FAVORITE in my family. Even my brother who is allergic to most fish loved it. Now we don't even bother trying to go (I don't have kids so I'm not interested in princesses. At all.)

I really miss Akershus. :(

[tony67]

They finally left after yelling at her, and when I ordered she told me that they deal with that all day long. Frankly, even if they did serve 'Pommes' or 'Frites' the German way is with mayonnaise, and not with ketchup, so I doubt that they would have been happy with that either.

The customer has driven this change. The demand is for 'familiar' foods, and the more authentic ones didn't sell. Blame the visitors, not the vendors, for having to adapt.

True. I always get odd looks when I put mayo on my fries. It is good though. If I’m going to eat bad I may as well go all the way.
Also Coleslaw or Curry sauce is nice on chips, I wish they had a proper chip shop in then England pavillion(trying to bring it back to the OP).

Speaking of Sommerfest I have to say the quality of the Brat has gone way down hill and they are now very stingy with the Sauerkraut. If you ask they will give you more, but they decide too many people were not eating it.

Also if they want to be authentic how about adding Currywurst?
I think it would sell quite well.

[traviesojmt]

Aren't they horrible? The somewhat authentic ones are stale; the directive now is not to refresh or replenish what they do not sell, so they are often more than past the freshness.

Awhile back I was standing in line at Sommerfest just to buy a bottle of water. A foursome of older Americans was ordering a sausage on a bun which is served with Sauerkraut. They were arguing endlessly with the CM, demanding that she substitute French Fries. She explained over and over that they don't serve them there, and offered up alternate locations which did serve them.

They finally left after yelling at her, and when I ordered she told me that they deal with that all day long. Frankly, even if they did serve 'Pommes' or 'Frites' the German way is with mayonnaise, and not with ketchup, so I doubt that they would have been happy with that either.

The customer has driven this change. The demand is for 'familiar' foods, and the more authentic ones didn't sell. Blame the visitors, not the vendors, for having to adapt.

Forget the mayonnaise, if they are going to serve french fries then they need to serve the curry ketchup I fell in love with when we lived in Germany. BTW, I remember the first time that we ate at the German pavilion. It had been over a year since we had moved back from Germany and we really missed the food. We lived in a rural area of Germany and the food was wonderful. There really was no comparison. Now I am really craving Swabian Pork Tenderloin and Spaetzle. YUMMMY!!

[dizneedoll]

Wait a minute here...everyone is discussing the authenticity of the food but that isn't what the op complained about. They complained the food was cold and the waiter offered a replacement and it was refused. Why was it refused? Then they wanted the meals removed from the bill and free desserts to boot.

[summerlady]

In the end your experience reminds me of an episode of Fawlty Towers (best Comedy Series ever IMO).
Someone tries to complain to Fawlty and he ends up agreeing and complaining back.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Arrad: Excuse me.
Basil Fawlty: Yes?
Mr. Arrad: Look, we've been waiting here for about half an hour now, I mean I gave the waiter our order...
Basil Fawlty: Oh, *him*. He's hopeless, isn't he?
Mr. Arrad: Yes, well I don't wish to complain, but when he does bring something he's got it wrong.
Basil Fawlty: You think I don't know? I mean, you only have to eat here. We have to live with it. I had to pay his fare all the way from Barcelona, but you can't get the staff you see. It's a nightmare.
Mrs. Arrad: You were supposed to be complaining to *him*.

:thumbsup2 Veal substitute, anyone? ;)

[Doctor P]

Authentic can also be in the eye of the beholder and vary by era and by level of snobbery one chooses to apply. For example, ham in the United States has changed over time in terms of both salt content and fat content. Does that mean that ham dishes today are less "authentic"? I would say no, they are just different. For example, in the several weeks I spent in Austria (throughout the country), I'm not sure I ever saw veal-based schnitzel on the menu. We were told that it was a combination of cost, health, and personal tastes that led to most schnitzel dishes now being chicken, turkey, or pork (all of which were quite good).

That said, American palates for ethnic food are definitely different. I am first generation American on my mother's side. My grandmother's ethnic cooking was quite good, but if you were to put it into a restaurant most Americans would complain and would not eat it (and claim it wasn't "real" because it was not the type of Italian food that they are used to). Similarly, genuine Mexican food is not something most Americans have ever been exposed to and often are shocked, surprised, and dismayed at how different it is from what passes as Mexican food in the mainstream of what Americans know as Mexican restaurants.

[tony67]

Wait a minute here...everyone is discussing the authenticity of the food but that isn't what the op complained about. They complained the food was cold and the waiter offered a replacement and it was refused. Why was it refused? Then they wanted the meals removed from the bill and free desserts to boot.

Yeah, it just kind of leads down that road. I think the people in the restaurants are just as frustrated as the foodies and once we get going you can stop us. ;)

Back to the OP...
I know I usually do not want a replacement meal in the same situation and I am just happy if they take the meal off. I'm always suspect of what goes on in the kitchen after something has been sent back. (Things I know for a fact that I will not discuss here)

I would not ask for something more, but usually they will also offer dessert or a bottle of wine (if you have already had a few).

If the customer was unhappy, right or wrong, then the manager should have done something more. Especially since they were paying OOP and he had spoken to them in that manner.

[jiminyfan]

The culinary front at WDW has changed so dramtically; it took a giant upswing several years ago and recently plummeted to a very low standard. Many of us no longer go to WDW looking for great dining experiences, or realise that we generally find those more often at the non Disney run establishments.

We agree 150%, since free dining also became a way at life the culinary experience at WDW has taken even more of a nose dive. Same proteins at every restaurant and the variety of choice so limited. I long for the days where we used to go to WDW for dining alone and the parks were just used to fill time between the meals!!!!!

:sad1:

[Chris and Pooh]

Wait a minute here...everyone is discussing the authenticity of the food but that isn't what the op complained about. They complained the food was cold and the waiter offered a replacement and it was refused. Why was it refused? Then they wanted the meals removed from the bill and free desserts to boot.

That is not the correct facts, the manager not the waiter offered a replacement for the mac and chees, as we had already waited 20 minutes for our mains my sister in law did not want to wait again. The manager refused to acknowledge my requests for something to be done re my meal not necessarily a refund, as was my request afterwards for complementary desserts, he was too intent on flirting with my sister in law which was not on the review. my requests for acknowledgement of the problem were totally ignored right up to the point where we received the bill.
An apology was what I wanted foremost which was never received

[MickeyNicki]

We ate dinner there last month and the food was horrible and served cold.

[snookiedoodles]

I ate at other countrys and been told that this is not "authentic" food, and very different from that country. And yes, the word "Americanized" was used.....I was like.....thanks:rolleyes: